I have never played 40K. I have never collected 40K. I dont understand 40K. Most of your videos that I watch might as well be in Swedish, thats how little I understand of what you guys talk about. But I do understand the passion of a hobby, mine are just different, I started watching this channel when Jazza did art, now i watch for the passion you guys have.( still not sure what a space marine chapter is or a Tau)
@@TabletopTime honestly I think you guys diversifying your vids to cover more tabletop games really does help people in our community try new things and experimenting so thx guys! 🙏
To help, a tau is a species of alien and a spacemarine chapter is a bunch of dudes that dress the same and are basically in space gang going to go fight people
Hey, I also present myself in the comments section as someone who doesn't know sh*t about warhammer (D&D exclusive player here, ha). But we still enjoy when they paint their... armys? squads? whatever.. we should start a cult.
I have seen this all across many different tabletop games and it does turn a lot of people. I think the hobby is so broad and people should be allowed to enjoy it the way they like it. Keep up such amazing content
Seeing jazza on an episode about accepting people in the hobby makes my heart warm cause I assume a lot of people think of him this way and they are just wrong. Also love hearing people talk positively about women and others being accepted in the hobby and lore. Cant think of anyone who might think otherwise. Yep. Not one. Especially one who has a channel about swords.
Hi there, I completely feel like a hobby tourist. I am older than most models out there, 61 at the end of May. I started painting during the pandemic as a way to relax, decompress and well just take a break from what was going on at the time. I painted random miniatures, then board games miniatures and well sooner or later GW models had to be next. As anyone would do, I marched my way to UA-cam. I watched videos and videos and more videos. I watched all the videos I could until it came time for me to paint. Then I watch more videos. Through all that I have NEVER played a game of 40K or Warhammer fantasy and I have only played tabletop RPG a few times. I graduated in the age of Pong! I paint what amuses me at the time. Whether if it is an old cast, new plastic, a tabletop miniature or a random miniature I found. I paint for the joy and the time I have to relax. If that makes me a hobby tourist, can I get a passport to travel this hobby as I please? Love the content. Keep it up.
hey there love playing fantasy and tabletop rpgs gurps was my jam back in the day. have been p[aying since a kid and my fav has always been fantasy, cheaper to get into to field a force large enough to feel fun and fair 1000-2000 40k has always been too clunky and has allot of gotcha game moments. fantasy has a different feel especially when played in a narrative campaign. cant recommend playing old world or 6th edition/9th age. being a hobby tourist is fine no one will kick yah out XD, its the people who use a hobby as a personality trait and make it their whole personality then know absolutely nothing about the actualy content. comics has allot of that
I am someone with neither the time nor the artistic hand to actually paint miniatures or play serious tabletop games, but I've always had so many ideas and thoughts of things I would love to do if I did. I came up with my own guard regiment and did lots of research on them years ago, but then I kind of fell out. You guys are a great source of inspiration and reignited that passion for not just that idea, but so many others that I have. Thank you for bringing back that creative spark and I hope you guys get to enjoy your hobbies for many years to come.
It is so bonkers to me when I hear these stories. I remember being like 12 watching with wonder a group of adults playing 40k, and they actively encouraged me to come over next to the table and ask questions. I distinctly still remember one of the folks who couldn't be bothered to paint their army even letting me play a small game to learn.
Jazza, you are almost single handedly responsible for me getting back into the hobby, not just of 40k, but from that also came DnD, 3D printing and 100's of hours of enjoyment painting awesome minitures. Thank you Jazza.
Gotta love the idea that a group with multiple channels dedicated to tabletop hobby are accused of being "tourists" by professional Twitter users and podcasters that jump to a new hobby to complain about from the sidelines every week.
Its like that in most hobbies, somebody feels like it is their hobby only for them, and anyone thinking different than them aren't Real hobbist. My favorite example is The Metal Music community, no matter how hard of metal you're listening too, for some it is not "Real" Metal.
A lot of the tourist thing seems to be more of a thing about people who just come into it and everyone else don't know if you're going to stick around, if you'll be worth keeping around, it you'll just disappear some day, or if you'll be a problem that they're now stuck with. There's so many stores where the players are stuck with problem players that they can't remove from things because they buy a lot from the store...there's some people at one game store who were nightmare problems we couldn't get rid of that would throw fits if they lost and outright cheat at a lot of things, but because they'd dump massive piles of cash into the store, they'd never get removed from things.
@@MightyGachiman I can guarantee that every single one of your minis sucks ass compared to even the worst mini on this channel. Go be miserable somewhere else.
Heck! Jazza’s back on the channel! Jokes, but this was a great video. And it hit a little close to home. I don’t like the term “hobby tourist”. To me, it’s okay to have a surface level interest in a hobby, cause that’s how people figure out if they want to go deeper. That’s how I got into Warhammer. I found a Tyranid mini, and called it a “weird Xenomorph” and then fell down a rabbit hole of learning a little bit more of the lore. If I had had a term like “hobby tourist” at me in any negative way, I would have dropped it and walked away. And I’m so glad that it never happened to me. Thank you, Jazza and Dave, forever this video and the discussion. Can’t wait to see what’s going to happen in the future.
The back of that Daemon Prince model was designed to fit the plastic dragon wings from WH Fantasy which were available on their own sprue (i.e. you didn't need to buy a whole dragon for them).
This vid was very special and lovely to hear both Jazza’s passion and doubts. As someone who still considers themselves new to the hobby (just over a year and a half in now), I also feel like an outsider, even at my local games club (who have been nothing but welcoming), and social anxiety means I struggle meeting new people. Nice to know I’m not alone 😊
Ahh just an all around fantastic conversation to listen to (and peek up at the visuals while I'm painting at my desk). An absolute breath of fresh air!
Your team never fail to impress. Nail on the head y'all. Keep up the grand work y'all. Does my heart good to see such wonderful folks inthe hobby with us old bloods.
So Jazza not knowing the turn around time of this video is a testament to his leadership. Leaders should trust their team to do the work they’re hired to do and remove roadblocks when they occur. Leaders should not micromanage their teams. Jazza is turning into the leader we should all be lucky to have. Also, those coffee bits are fire lol
I'm a hobby tourist. I dabble a bit. I try to enjoy what I'm enjoying. I try new things. I'm not bothered by that term of derision, but do think people need to be more welcoming and get over it
i never would have started painting minis if it wasnt for Jazza and his video painting the giant blood angel. never played a game, very small exclusionary community in my area. but i love the painting side of the hobby. thanks to jazza i get to have a ton of fun creating stories and characters as i paint. its a great escape for me, having the ability to focus on something fun for an hour or two a day. cant express my gratitude enough.
For what it's worth, and it might not be much; I am currently running my second d&d campaign. We have a session tomorrow night. I have never had as much fun, in such a fulfilling way, as I do when we play this game. I am only running this game because I met the current players in a westmarches d&d game that I only joined because of tTt Roleplay. I credit my love for this game to you guys. I didn't even know this hobby existed before Jazza made his "We're bringing back Tabletop Time!" video. I'm now almost a year into my 40k journey too, which was also almost entirely caused due to you guys. I could never express how grateful I am to tTt for showing me how awesome this part of nerd culture is.
The concept of a tourist is supposed to describe people who join a hobby and then morally judge the people who already are a part of the hobby or try to change the hobby based on their personal morals. Like if someone became a part of 40k as a hobby and started to claim it was too aggressive and not appropriate for children so they started lobbying for people to be banned from using any models featuring anything you wouldn't see on your average toddlers cartoon show. People use it to be rude to newcomers a lot because people are like that but the original intent is valid. It happens a lot with anime, I like anime the way it is. If other people want to not engage with parts they don't like I'm fine with that. I am not fine with them actively trying to change what I like about anime so that I can no longer have what I like.
As an old dude who is far less active in but still loves Warhammer to this day, THANK YOU for this video. I've been gaming since '79 and I have encountered so many of the things you mentioned here.
How could Jazza be a hobby tourist? thanks to him I found out I could paint minis and how to do it, and because of him I found channels like squidmar that pushed my painting technics further. Jazza is not only the resort at the vacation plance, he's the airline that takes you there.
Not knowing the rules and being scoffed at, is legit the reason why i NEVER got into ANYTHING.. My dad love trains, and collects models, so we where often inside hobby stores, i remember seeing Warhammer and ask if that was something i could paint, and they just told my dad "no its only for boys".. My dad saw a LARP store and saw my enthusiasm and we tried to figure out what it was and how to play but again i got the "its for boys" comment. DnD again "no girls allowed" i tried playing computer with the guys in school but "girls don't play red alert" every sport, every hobby, i have always been turned away from or forced to enjoy from the outside looking in. My now partner loves playing computer games with me - board games - not DnD, but other systems and home brew stories and settings - I paint HIS warhammer stuff - i still don't do sports but that's just me being lazy! He invites me to everything he does because he loves to share his hobby and life with me. Fudge people who gate keep honestly.. They are silly, sad creatures who lives in a world long gone from reality.
@@Aurora07 Yeah it’s Shad, he probably still does but he doesn’t seem to associate with him in the public eye at all because of how far Shad went off the alt-right pipeline. I don’t wanna actually speculate on the relationship between two brothers so I won’t. However, as Shad as become this ultra conservative gatekeeper of pop culture, it makes sense he wouldn’t allow Jazza to play
@tamaiofthesea ah ok so I just saw jazzas video addressing things, it's unfair that people were demanding he "pick a side" . Should have left it there. though i know he didnt go into too much detail he still seemed to throw shad under the bus (figure of speech). Shame as I liked the video few years ago of them talking about Ai "art" and a colab of them making 3D printed swords? thought they were great duo, so this explains why we don't see more like that.
I give 10 coffee beans and 3 ugly laughing cry tears to that coffee segment. Loved it. Also yeah, I wouldn't say this one was the first one that felt podcasty, I feel that you guys are more comfortable with the format and just nerding. Great conversation, being a international viewer, didn't know about the term having so much baggage. Its sad, hobbies are for having fun and sharing, thats what make them hobbies
"Going to game stores, looking at paint jobs" That's me, right there, Jazza. And it alongside watching some videos and talking with the staff of my local store, gave me the kick 8n the pants to get started.
I watched Jazza as an entertainment thing purely until the miniatures box came out and i got my jazzy strikers. Cut to years later. I am now running two dnd games one for my younger neice and nephews. I am currently making models for their dnd characters for the second campaign these 6-10 year olds will be a part of. Every time they come over they can tell me exactly what happened the last session and are amped up to start the next one. My wifes work has hosted multiple craft nights where we all get together and paint or work on whatever craft side by side. I work 16-18 hours days and my hobbies are the main thing that brings me joy. It all startd because jazza and tabletop time ended their videos with "tell us your thoughts or what you are working on" So thank you for sharing your passion.
I for one love that Warhammer is becoming a household name, I've had a Drs appointment and ended up discussing with my Dr about it because his son has joined a club at school and now they both have started the hobby! The more people enjoy it the more we all get together! so win win win IMO
Ah, yeah, we can now discuss 40k with the doctor for the low low price of having DEI and wokism crammed down our throats by a company that literally made a manifesto saying they want to get rid of the fans who supported them for decades if said fans don't agree with their Disney-like policies. What a time to be alive!
@@PraetorGixSo GW putting out a message that they don't support fascists and their idolization of the imperium is them "disavowing the people that made them"? The people who made 40k were openly satirical about fascism in the imperium and the way you tried to spin that is a clear self report. 😂
The hobby tourist thing must be a result of culture in general becoming more tribal. I've experienced it myself: I went down to my local hobby store, entered a blood bowl league - yet everyone excluded me and they stayed and played in their own little clique, despite me repeatedly asking for games on Discord. When I called them out on this, a very select few started including me. I then suggested maybe because it's a league we should all have to play each other. The boss then kicked me from the Discord server for questioning him and his league rules.
@@ger5956 Well, if you listen to his side of the story, he'd probably say I got kicked for being rude. I see this on UA-cam a lot - it's been normalised to block/cancel anyone who disagrees with you - which has made the tribal culture only get worse. So fragile are some people's egos, they conflate disagreement with attack - and their immediate instinct is to block the "attacker" to preserve their echo chamber where they are King.
I was so worried about this since my local League was nothing but enfranchised players (including some WTC team Canada players I discovered) so I was so worried I'd be mocked and excluded for bringing my unpainted minis to play. I wasn't... and that's the story about where all my money went.
I only found jazza from the colab with minis. Seemed like a fun guy so popped to the channel and was shocked how big it was. Glad you got back in and you're cracking on.
Great video love seeing Jazza back on the channel I hope he comes in more to show some of the stuff he has been working on. An army showcase from Jazza ??
when Jazza mentioned being introduce to the hobby by his cousin, i could really relate to that as my cousin introduced me first to Space crusade, then battle masters then Epic 2nd edition, which absolutely blew my mind. The hordes of tanks and little men streaming across a table and clashing in huge piles of plastic was glorious. My cousin mostly won because I was more excited about sending huge armoured waves across the table to get slaughtered in tactically dubious assaults. Games took a whole day to deploy and a day and half to play. I stopped playing after I started university which was the end of the 90s and into the new millennium. I took up the hobby again last year, but leaned into 40k minis and my cousin once again introduced me to a gaming club that he went to. And it's such a joy when there's a group of men all in their 40s and 50s some bringing their children to the club and all just having a blast pushing little plastic and resin figures across a table and rolling dice while yelling at the downfall of their favourite squad or when they somehow roll 4 6s in a one go.
Thank you for touching on this. My older bother was also into and I wanted to be but wasnt allowed to, in highschool dated and later married someone that played and he tried but we spoke very different languages (me art him numbers) and the how to and stuff was always too much at once. Sorta became friends with the local game shop employee but then he got a girl friend and I didnt exist anymore that was hard but I kept at it. We were playing on day at a tournament at the local game store and this middle aged guy (I was still in college at the time) was such a stickler for rules and loved to make people look stupid. We disagreed on a rule and because he was him everyone agreed with him. I lost because of it, looked it up after and was right. I brought it up and got like “huh well now the shop knows too” brought it to the next game and he told me that if I couldnt let one little lose go I would never be good to which everyone laughed…laughed at be for being right to the person that was always a stickler for rules and would NEVER let any of them go…so I said I guess thats why hes never going to be good because he had to lie about rules to beat college girls and I never played at that shop again. Got a divorce from the gamer too and just recently started caring again cause of your channel. Thank you all for addressing this. “Tourists” or whatever are still valid players.
I made the "mistake" of walking into a hobby store and asking about the "forty thousand figurines". The look of disgust and derision from the store clerk made me feel so insignificant, it tainted my interest in the genre, leaving a bad first impression. It had enough of an effect on me that I never took up the hobby and didn't bother picking up any of the manuals or sets.
The bullying and gatekeeping within the hobby has always existed. The weirdest experience that is kinda related to this that I had was at GW Parramatta back in the early 2000s (when it was in Westfield Parramatta). An employee (now ex-employee) who I believe was the store manager there was a wiccan and so one day he when he saw a kid wearing a WWJD bracelet abused the crap out of him shouting crap like "your God wants you to kill me" "kill me now" and stuff like that at him. The kid was like 12. I was something like 15 or so and playing a game in the store at the same time. Other staff were cool there though. I have to admit that him and that behaviour didn't make me keen to come play in that store.
Jazza's start with 40k was like mine I also started with Blood Angels and the 3rd Edition starter set. I actually went into the GW store in Parra and painted a space marine. I actually went in to start playing Warhammer Fantasy because some friends of mine had models which I saw but they didn't play anymore. The guy in the store convinced me to start playing 40k instead because fantasy was really not popular at the time in that store at least. They asked me what my favourite colour was and at the time it was red. Then he proceeded to tell me about the Blood Angels which I just thought were the best. I quickly changed my guys to be used for Chaos (which people were fine with) because having to have enough alternative models for Death Company when you roll to see if they fell to Death Company sounded way too expensive for me. Also changing to Chaos allowed me to find my love of conversions. I only played D&D in the past five years or so now. This was after other RPGs and years of helping to run a Geek Club where we played board games.... but that's skipping a lot of my hobby journey.
I was so scared at first to get back into the hobby bc i left due to not so great experiences. i found a local gamestore and decided to just go to it and see how it feels. it was honestly such a welcoming store with the owners just being super friendly that it started to feel like a second home almost. i've been going there for 3 years now and we have build a full on community. it made me realize that it is so important to have a strong and welcoming community.
If I was to make any comment to anyone looking to get into AoS or 40k as a hobby. Bring yourself to the table, be as creative as you want to be or collect it like you're collecting a historical war game. It's all up to you! I myself am very much on the creative side of things, I love to make my own factions within the lore because I can
Well done team. The Hobby is whatever you want it to be for you. Insecure people label others to make themselves feel better, more justified. It's a sad world where people feel that putting others down because they are different to them, and to boost their own ego, is acceptable.
my experiance has been much the same as jazza, I've been in the hobby since second eddition 40k, collecting and painting models on and off though my life. I've got many half - 80% painted projects but never fully got one up to 2000 points so i've never had a game of 40k in my life. maybe this will be the this year or next i find a place in melbourne for a game and to show case my hard work on the table.
Great vid...love hearing peoples hobby journeys...honestly I really enjoy listening people talk about thing they are passionate about! I do how hate any form of trying to belittle someone when they are just trying to enjoy a hobby...and it happens all the time! I mean, how often do people throw around the "you're not a gamer!". Thankfully, I don't think I have ever had to deal with it personally...yet :)
Is it weird that I kinda love the name "hobby tourist". I imagine this person who loves passion and goes around joining others in their hobbies. I might not be into "blank" hobby but could definitely appreciate the passion others have. 🤩
I've been playing this game since I was 13. I dont count when I was 11 cause oh boy did I not know what I was doing. I've not come across the term hobby tourist till now. As I think of this term and ruminate on it I can see "hobby tourist" taken as Jazza said it initially. Someone who doesn't engage with the hobby, but wants to speak as if they where an authority on the hobby. With this in mind, the idea of someone who already doesn't like a hobby you enjoy trying to change it on a fundamental level feels gross. The mentality of, for example someone who says "I don't like basket ball so I'm going to change it for everyone so I can like it." is unsettlingly selfish. Sometimes change is good. Sometimes adding in stuff is good. I'd rather that change come from the community, and not pressured by someone who doesn't engage with the hobby. This doesn't mean you need to know everything about the hobby but at the very least engage in some constructive manner. Unless the community as a whole believes the ball should not go in the hoop, let the players strive for the hoop, and if the odd man out wants to play hoopless basketball no one should stop him but at the same time they shouldn't be obliged to change the whole game for everyone. Cause you can't please everyone. It's likely a thought and sentiment most people in the hobby have floating around in the back of their heads and it shows when it's the first thought Jazza describes. It's easy to see how bad actors in the rage bait community can take the idea and warp it. It's the idea of getting you worked up over something you don't like and sprinkling a little extra in so now you're thinking about the thing you dislike, and something's been snaked in to get you thinking about that little other thing too till it becomes a big thing in your head along side the first.
Wait, what? My initial thought when you said hobby tourist was kind of the hobby version of meta chasers: just picking up random models that look cool, without really committing to the faction, and that pobably wouldn't bother me. but someone turning away an inquisitive new-comer just seems idiotic. Ask questions, get involved, the world gets much more interesting and friendlier the more you know
loved this video. was interesting to see how you both met and the negative name calling of some people in the hobby. you are right this is a welcoming hobby and all levels should be encouraged, its like Hellfire Club from Stranger Things, a safe place for all of us. Dave- would be great to hear of your back story with the hobby aswell.
Love this Hobby, Got into From playing Dnd and being really excited about making and painting a miniature to represent my character, as during the campaign we played with my friend’s miniatures and they were just generic ones ( one of my friends was using a batman mini as a proxy even though this was a pirate themed game and he was not batman lol) and so i re-created my character on Hero forge and hit order. But now i need paints while i waited for my order to arrive. So i ordered this Reaper bones painting kit that came with 20 paints or so and 3 dnd models. I used those to practice painting my first ever miniatures and i was hooked. It was so much fun seeing this little dude come to life as i paint the colors on to him. All the while picturing in my head his story and what makes him tick ( the first one was just a skeleton with a bow lol) But every time i felt i was getting better and better with each model. After painting those 3 i went to a barnes and nobles and saw they were selling a warhammer painting bundle that came with 3 pots of paint and 3 primaris space marines. I picked that up and got to painting and had a blast with it. I was so excited that i did this accomplishment i posted the first one to reddit and got a few likes and some helpful comments. I instantly painted my second one and saw much improvement thanks to the helpful comments on reddit. Then my hero forge minature finally arrived. It was time to put my month of training to the test so i could paint my dnd character and impress my friends the next game night. Unfortunately dnd would be put on hiatus because of covid and i never did get to bring my character to dnd night. But it was too late, i had been bitten by this hobby bug and i was itching to paint more models. Fast forward to today and I have way too many models, way too many paints, and not nearly enough time to paint them all. But I love this hobby, and love watching videos of people expressing that same love! Ive never met anyone in person that is in the hobby ( or maybe i have and its never came up) but by playing other miniature games with people who dont paint but like to play games, its still a way i can share my hobby and have fun with friends
Being female some people may think I shouldn't be a 40K fan - but I don't care myself. Recently I was approached by a woman in a gaming shop because I was the first female she had ever seen interacting with 40K (I was putting together a combat patrol for Adeptus Sororistas) and it was great to be able to introduce her to the shop owner and other fans who were milling around. "Hobby tourist" wow now that is such a stupid term.
Those coffee break clips are awesome, the ladder part was genius XD. What I don't get is where do these came from? Is it some sort of internal joke that grew out of control?
Crisis Protocol is a great skirmish game that really captures the super hero flavor. I love that Jazza is giving it a go. We have a growing community for it here and Maine and the North East overall.
@@TabletopTime lol. I refuse to believe you wrote the bits, scheduled all the actors, gathered the props and costumes, and filmed everything in 30 minutes. But I am of course kidding.
Dave, Jazza- Speaking of ‘tourists’ I’ve got a bunch of kitbashed war hammer models i have put together (because i really enjoy customizing the models as an artist perspective-beyond the game) -and as i have not played the table top… I’ve no idea if they would be even remotely useful or wanted maybe as artistic collections- but interested if you would be willing to take a look at em and let me know if they would ever be worth anything (as in would people be interested in them, and what would a reasonable price be to sell em). Anyway at the very least it would be good to hear your opinion on it. Cheers to all of you guys/gals there
I should add too that it was Jazzas space bears and the awesome projects you’ve all done at tabletop that inspired me to start working on models in the first place- so again even if you guys dont have time to respond-- thanks for the inspiration to take up a hobby that keeps the creativity going!
I’ve only been doing warhammer for a few years. I barely play because I collect feudal guard, kitbash all models including chaff, and paint so slowly. It feels like I make a unit a year, so I feel like a tourist
I learned the phrase/term with this video. I've acquired a lot of W40k models/kits, a bunch of paints, haven't built/painted anything (YET?!), watch Eons of Battle, Poorhammer, Auspex Tactics, Majorkill, Zorpazorp, Battle Brother Sam, and (obviously) TTT.
How have you not heard it before now?... then again it has been more popularized due to the many heresies in the TTRPG scene. Most notably with White Wolf and Wizards of the Coast.
That would be because that guy is an idiot and probably mildly sexist. Never really understood this whole guy/girl only hobby things. I know when I was growing up tom-boys were a thing. A wonderful thing.
I honestly didn't really know of this term till now but i think it's going to be a useful tool in my verbal arsonal for when i see non warhammer hobbist political commentators who barely ever touch warhammer outside of times it's useful for them to generate rage bait content such as that guy who couldn't even pronounce adeptus custodes and was behaving like the anti christ had been found because gw gaves us a female custodes short story. the majority of their stuff is political content and if they have models i would be surprised
I find it quite ironic that the political activists say "Be tolerant of the way things are" AFTER they get what they want. Why couldn't they have been tolerant to the way things were? They are by definition intolerant themselves.
I consider Jazza to be more of a tourist guide rather than a tourist. I have a Huion, 2nd actually, because of his digital art many years back. I kind of started with 40K when he started showing off things. I didn't make a box like he did but I have a setup pretty much alike. So it might not be the deepest dive every time but there is a lot of discovery&inspiration watching vids every now and then.
that 3rd edition box was my 1st box after i have the paint set with the clip togeather space marine man thats goin back some years my 1st dame was a few years befor that with 2nd ong how the game has chaned over the year just about to get back in to it again and carnt wait
My only thing is I see this from either side. When both can not be assholes to others is when that could realistically end. Otherwise it becomes different echo chambers.
I wouldn't block language - that's a gate keeper thing to do. You have to be the change you want to see. By blocking, you are excluding points of view and thus contributing to division.
@nicholasgordon4999 i do not have to do spit. It's a valueless conversation that they'll quite happily keep wanking away at without me needing to see it.
I can relate super hard. I could've gotten into warhammer when I was 14 and had my first job, but I was literally laughed out of the only store in town, by the owner and his friends when I came up to their game on the side during a magic Friday. I just asked how much it would cost to start playing. I was expecting 500-1000. But they literally laughed that I couldn't afford it. Then I was watching lore videos during free time at work years later and got into painting. I still haven't gotten to play because the store here doesn't play AoS or killteam, or anything but full scale 2k point 40k and I really dont care about every faction being techy looking. One day I'll have a friend group that's interested.
The only "Hobby Tourists" are the rage bait culture warriors who show up for five minutes to scream about female custodes, or when GW says the hobby is for everyone and then disappear again when there aren't any more clicks to be farmed and go back to yelling about how video game characters aren't sexy enough these days.
@TheCrimsonArchivist not saying you are, but you picked an odd time to complain about the way GW handles new lore when they have frequently dropped dramatic new lore info as a couple of lines of fluf
Had this painting session at the very beginning of my hobby journey, to learn with one of the guys from the official local GamesWorkshop in town. Had already painted a bit (badly ^^') my own Space Marins Chapter, which I called the Space Diamons since I was a geology geek and had learn that nothing was sturdier than diamonds. Was really proud of the idea, too. And yet while talking about it with said store worker, the guy (around 30) laughed in my face (13 yo kid) for having a "girly" name for my chapter. wtf ? never went back to said store, and even now that I'm back in the hobby (ended quitting 'cause not enough money to get figs and painting gear. it's nice to be an adult and have money to spend ^^), i am not going back there. Plenty of space around to meet great people and buy good stuff ! edith : funny how that last bit by Dave links up with a lot of different hobbies. For instance, how the LEGO community is, and how some adult fans laugh at Bionicle Fan for "not being real lego fan", and vice-versa...
Jazza was close right off the bat, but Dave missed the mark. “Hobby tourism” is not a xenophobic term. Rather, it goes hand-in-hand with “Warhammer is for anyone, not everyone.” If you love what we love, or want to learn to love it, come on in! If you just want to take it from us and change it into something else, why would we support that? And it absolutely does not exclude women or minorities from the hobby (plenty of both fighting against tourism). The loudest voices on Twitter, UA-cam, and everywhere else in favor of changing Warhammer are all white men… typically taking it upon themselves to speak on behalf of women and minorities, and calling any who disagree with them names like “pick me.” The issue, as Jazza recognized, is that the “tourists” are people less invested in 40K who demand mass changes be made to accommodate them… like tourists saying they love a locale but that the locals should speak their language, that the restaurants need to serve their cuisine, and so on. And it is interesting that you brought up the bullying of the past considering the tourists love to tell nerds that their passion does not matter, that they are virgins (incels), that they need to “touch grass” rather than obsess over their passions, that it’s good that it is being taken from them, and on, and on. And that gets to the heart of this. This is the latest case of an old nerd passion being commodified into a mainstream fad, something to show off on Instagram. And nerds are being bullied by the tourists who demand Warhammer change for them. Edit to add: Telling people to play old editions while Warhammer is changed for new people is crap. After all the time and money invested, they should just accept that the hobby is no longer for them? To accommodate people who have never been fans before? Really? Anything tourists could possibly want was always accommodated via homebrew and kitbash. Why does Warhammer itself have to make their desires canon over the desires of people who have kept it all alive since 1987?
Finally someone who gets it. They absolutly miss the mark with what it means if someone is called a tourist. Granted like any other pupular phrase it gets missused once it started to get popular and its a shame TTT is spreading such nonsense.
Modern-day hobby tourists are people who are politically motivated to take over a space and have it cater to them specifically, at the expense of the real fans. You can see this trend happening in everything that becomes remotely popular, and it always kills the thing they've taken over.
@@Scarecrow19882011 star wars, Marvel comics, Ring of Power off top of my head. Helldivers would be the latest I even bothered looking at with the constant push to just let people have modern day political symbols on their capes, not because it'd make the game better at all but because they want their politics represented in this popular game. The same people who'd then raise a fuss if the company then let people with opposing political beliefs also have their politics represented in game. Now what is the difference between the first three and Helldivers, Helldivers at least to my knowledge has refused to budge on letting modern day politics be in their game and despite the issues caused by Sony is still going rather strong. On the other hand comics industry is just about dead as everyone changes to manga, Ring of Power flopped despite all their changes to Tolkien lore they made up to fit their series while claiming its canon and Star Wars has lost a major chunk of its fanbase to the point it aint profitable any more.
@@PraetorGix I still remember the divide in the knitting community. THE KNITTING COMMUNITY FFS. The term tourist might not have be enused back then but it would have been on spot in its original meaning. And the fault line is excactllly the same like in any other hobby that got infested since then.
'Warhammer wouldn't be where it is without roleplaying"... Acshuaaaally, D&D wouldn't be there without Chainmail. The grand old daddy of RPGs has its roots in OG traditional wargaming. It's a constant pendulum of influence between these two. At the moment, with such a focus to skirmish games and streamlined systems, we see the RPG side being more influencial and games that are more granular or simulation focussed getting less momentum. It'll come around with a new wave of games and gamers. It always do.
Personally, I welcome anyone, but I don't appreciate people coming in and wanting change without trying to understand why older or more diehard fans would be annoyed at what they are trying to do. They can make female Space Marines and Banana Boys as an army without any issue, but actively trying to change the world that people are committed to based on personal ethics and opinions that not everyone shares, it should go both ways. We should respect their opinions and dreams, but they can't simply tread on ours and call it justified. Gatekeeping as a whole is not very good, but some elements have a reason. Fans are scared to see what we love change to an extent that it stops being Warhammer. Rule of cool tops everything, but pushing your taste and preferences and ethics on everyone else is not okay. Us as fans should welcome everyone, but explain that this is the world and that's how it is and how we want to keep it. However, with your models and your lore, do whatever you want. We will support you in any way we can.
Reminds me of the bastardization of the WHFB Elves around... I want to say 6th? It was around the time Matt Ward got his grubby fingers on the Elves and pretty much rewrote them as Eldar. Complete with Slaanesh thirsting for their souls above all else, having Way Stones that functioned as an Infinity Circuit... yeah. That was probably done to streamline the lore and make it less confusing for consumers. Never mind the whole point of the Eldar and Elves having different backgrounds was to keep their product lines separate.
I was a Jazza, grew up a big fan of GW but too anxious to really go in and get involved in the store, and embarrassed because I couldn't afford enough minis to play. I tried a few times to go into the store and play a trial game, but there was always a regular there that would push ahead of me, so I just played smaller games at home with my family. I remember as a teenager, I once plucked up enough courage to enter the FLGS's painting competition, and came second. All I can remember is sheepishly hovering at the back of the store as the winners were being announced and the sudden disappearance of cheers, and the rustling whispers of "who's that guy?" "No way that beats XXX's one" "Never seen that shit before" "he's not even from here" from the regulars when my name was called out, and the feeling of shame and exclusion was so strong that it completely soured my feeling of achievement and I was too embarrassed to even go back and pick up my mini after it stopped being displayed. I'm sure to those guys, I was probably a "hobby tourist" even though I'd been painting, collecting and reading lore since the early 90's.
Like with all things, there needs to be a balance. Too much gatekeeping stagnates the hobby, disincentivizes progression of the lore and causes the community to die off when there aren’t enough new fans to replace the old If you don’t gatekeep at all, you run the risk of losing what makes your hobby unique, all edges sanded smooth, the effort to appeal to everyone making the product some ubiquitous slop that could come from anywhere but happens to wear the mask of your preferred hobby I applaud the effort to get more people into Warhammer and there is definitely too strong of a backlash against recent updates But also you have to actively make sure you don’t lose what makes your hobby great because you had to change too much of it for the sake of new hobbyists
Well the internet just got smaller for me! 2 channels that I'm independently subscribed to coming together...completely unaware of any previous connection
I started with the love for the story's in the early white dwarf magazines,started collecting a few marines but nothing great,lost interest for a few years while i delved into world of warcraft,got given a mix of old models which brought me back into the hobby ,read the space wolf omnibus and i was lore crazy from there,me and my brother hammered through the Horus heresy (he's been collecting for a while, multiple armies) he brought a big box which was half plague marines which i personally love there lore so i ended up with 60+ models for basically nothing iv added Typhus and a few more myself ,the community online i avoid to a extent because there all mental,my local store are great guys they'll help but there's no pressure which is brilliant for people overwhelmed with the variety and anxiety,iv had the "look" but it's from people who have no clue but most iv met are good people 🤘
Making and looking at sick little things is bloody mean, I was watching a siege studio video before this just marvelling in the cool little dudes. We should be tourists going and appreciating fun stuff together
I've mainly seen the term used by ppl who have no interest in a hobby but once it does something "woke" act like they have been invested and start complaining about it for a month or two. (and they say nothing on more notable issues like price increases, or very recently the removal of fairly new models like some of the stormcast and warcry)
To humour the gatekeeper's point of view. Preventing any type of hobby from getting mainstream traction, is stopping the price gauging and extreme opportunistic practices that come with anything related to tourist short term cash grab. Mass appeal also brings unwanted attention by hate parties of late that only want to make their hateful point of views manifest in everything they turn their eye on. Warrhamer is a tongue in cheek parody, but it can be severely misunderstood if it isn't taken as that. Preserving things outside of the mainstream media is like keeping the colonists outside of your land. I am not supporting this take but i can see fair points in it as well. It is the same problem with any kind of art. You want great artists to be able to create art , but they also need money to pay their bills. In closure, i think it's high time we look things more stoically and focus on what we enjoy and ignore the static.
I have never played 40K. I have never collected 40K. I dont understand 40K. Most of your videos that I watch might as well be in Swedish, thats how little I understand of what you guys talk about. But I do understand the passion of a hobby, mine are just different, I started watching this channel when Jazza did art, now i watch for the passion you guys have.( still not sure what a space marine chapter is or a Tau)
We are going to be doing some more content that isn't about Warhammer soon, thanks for watching
@@TabletopTime honestly I think you guys diversifying your vids to cover more tabletop games really does help people in our community try new things and experimenting so thx guys! 🙏
To help, a tau is a species of alien and a spacemarine chapter is a bunch of dudes that dress the same and are basically in space gang going to go fight people
Hey, I also present myself in the comments section as someone who doesn't know sh*t about warhammer (D&D exclusive player here, ha). But we still enjoy when they paint their... armys? squads? whatever.. we should start a cult.
I don't play the game, I just like the lore
The coffee bits are getting better and better. This one was an absolute masterpiece!
I low key miss the hobby vids twice a week, this feels more like a podcast.
Must admit the coffee bits are great.
I have seen this all across many different tabletop games and it does turn a lot of people. I think the hobby is so broad and people should be allowed to enjoy it the way they like it.
Keep up such amazing content
Seeing jazza on an episode about accepting people in the hobby makes my heart warm cause I assume a lot of people think of him this way and they are just wrong.
Also love hearing people talk positively about women and others being accepted in the hobby and lore.
Cant think of anyone who might think otherwise. Yep. Not one. Especially one who has a channel about swords.
The name drop jump-scared me.
But yeah I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he'd dropped a video about a certain recent "woke" "controversy".
Hi there,
I completely feel like a hobby tourist. I am older than most models out there, 61 at the end of May.
I started painting during the pandemic as a way to relax, decompress and well just take a break from what was going on at the time. I painted random miniatures, then board games miniatures and well sooner or later GW models had to be next.
As anyone would do, I marched my way to UA-cam. I watched videos and videos and more videos. I watched all the videos I could until it came time for me to paint. Then I watch more videos.
Through all that I have NEVER played a game of 40K or Warhammer fantasy and I have only played tabletop RPG a few times. I graduated in the age of Pong!
I paint what amuses me at the time. Whether if it is an old cast, new plastic, a tabletop miniature or a random miniature I found. I paint for the joy and the time I have to relax. If that makes me a hobby tourist, can I get a passport to travel this hobby as I please?
Love the content. Keep it up.
hey there
love playing fantasy and tabletop rpgs gurps was my jam back in the day.
have been p[aying since a kid and my fav has always been fantasy,
cheaper to get into to field a force large enough to feel fun and fair 1000-2000
40k has always been too clunky and has allot of gotcha game moments.
fantasy has a different feel
especially when played in a narrative campaign.
cant recommend playing old world or 6th edition/9th age.
being a hobby tourist is fine no one will kick yah out XD, its the people who use a hobby as a personality trait and make it their whole personality then know absolutely nothing about the actualy content. comics has allot of that
I am someone with neither the time nor the artistic hand to actually paint miniatures or play serious tabletop games, but I've always had so many ideas and thoughts of things I would love to do if I did. I came up with my own guard regiment and did lots of research on them years ago, but then I kind of fell out. You guys are a great source of inspiration and reignited that passion for not just that idea, but so many others that I have. Thank you for bringing back that creative spark and I hope you guys get to enjoy your hobbies for many years to come.
It is so bonkers to me when I hear these stories. I remember being like 12 watching with wonder a group of adults playing 40k, and they actively encouraged me to come over next to the table and ask questions. I distinctly still remember one of the folks who couldn't be bothered to paint their army even letting me play a small game to learn.
Jazza, you are almost single handedly responsible for me getting back into the hobby, not just of 40k, but from that also came DnD, 3D printing and 100's of hours of enjoyment painting awesome minitures. Thank you Jazza.
Short Hair Dave Jumpscare
Gotta love the idea that a group with multiple channels dedicated to tabletop hobby are accused of being "tourists" by professional Twitter users and podcasters that jump to a new hobby to complain about from the sidelines every week.
Its like that in most hobbies, somebody feels like it is their hobby only for them, and anyone thinking different than them aren't Real hobbist. My favorite example is The Metal Music community, no matter how hard of metal you're listening too, for some it is not "Real" Metal.
A lot of the tourist thing seems to be more of a thing about people who just come into it and everyone else don't know if you're going to stick around, if you'll be worth keeping around, it you'll just disappear some day, or if you'll be a problem that they're now stuck with.
There's so many stores where the players are stuck with problem players that they can't remove from things because they buy a lot from the store...there's some people at one game store who were nightmare problems we couldn't get rid of that would throw fits if they lost and outright cheat at a lot of things, but because they'd dump massive piles of cash into the store, they'd never get removed from things.
@@MightyGachiman Can't tell if this is sarcastic.
@@MightyGachiman I can guarantee that every single one of your minis sucks ass compared to even the worst mini on this channel. Go be miserable somewhere else.
Heck!
Jazza’s back on the channel!
Jokes, but this was a great video. And it hit a little close to home.
I don’t like the term “hobby tourist”. To me, it’s okay to have a surface level interest in a hobby, cause that’s how people figure out if they want to go deeper.
That’s how I got into Warhammer. I found a Tyranid mini, and called it a “weird Xenomorph” and then fell down a rabbit hole of learning a little bit more of the lore.
If I had had a term like “hobby tourist” at me in any negative way, I would have dropped it and walked away. And I’m so glad that it never happened to me.
Thank you, Jazza and Dave, forever this video and the discussion.
Can’t wait to see what’s going to happen in the future.
The back of that Daemon Prince model was designed to fit the plastic dragon wings from WH Fantasy which were available on their own sprue (i.e. you didn't need to buy a whole dragon for them).
guys that skit... pure perfection so funny lol also loved the extra length, 40 minutes or more any day, podcast this stuff baby! lol
This vid was very special and lovely to hear both Jazza’s passion and doubts. As someone who still considers themselves new to the hobby (just over a year and a half in now), I also feel like an outsider, even at my local games club (who have been nothing but welcoming), and social anxiety means I struggle meeting new people. Nice to know I’m not alone 😊
Ahh just an all around fantastic conversation to listen to (and peek up at the visuals while I'm painting at my desk). An absolute breath of fresh air!
Your team never fail to impress. Nail on the head y'all. Keep up the grand work y'all. Does my heart good to see such wonderful folks inthe hobby with us old bloods.
So Jazza not knowing the turn around time of this video is a testament to his leadership. Leaders should trust their team to do the work they’re hired to do and remove roadblocks when they occur. Leaders should not micromanage their teams. Jazza is turning into the leader we should all be lucky to have. Also, those coffee bits are fire lol
I'm a hobby tourist. I dabble a bit. I try to enjoy what I'm enjoying. I try new things. I'm not bothered by that term of derision, but do think people need to be more welcoming and get over it
i never would have started painting minis if it wasnt for Jazza and his video painting the giant blood angel. never played a game, very small exclusionary community in my area. but i love the painting side of the hobby. thanks to jazza i get to have a ton of fun creating stories and characters as i paint. its a great escape for me, having the ability to focus on something fun for an hour or two a day. cant express my gratitude enough.
For what it's worth, and it might not be much; I am currently running my second d&d campaign. We have a session tomorrow night. I have never had as much fun, in such a fulfilling way, as I do when we play this game. I am only running this game because I met the current players in a westmarches d&d game that I only joined because of tTt Roleplay. I credit my love for this game to you guys. I didn't even know this hobby existed before Jazza made his "We're bringing back Tabletop Time!" video. I'm now almost a year into my 40k journey too, which was also almost entirely caused due to you guys. I could never express how grateful I am to tTt for showing me how awesome this part of nerd culture is.
The concept of a tourist is supposed to describe people who join a hobby and then morally judge the people who already are a part of the hobby or try to change the hobby based on their personal morals. Like if someone became a part of 40k as a hobby and started to claim it was too aggressive and not appropriate for children so they started lobbying for people to be banned from using any models featuring anything you wouldn't see on your average toddlers cartoon show. People use it to be rude to newcomers a lot because people are like that but the original intent is valid. It happens a lot with anime, I like anime the way it is. If other people want to not engage with parts they don't like I'm fine with that. I am not fine with them actively trying to change what I like about anime so that I can no longer have what I like.
As an old dude who is far less active in but still loves Warhammer to this day, THANK YOU for this video. I've been gaming since '79 and I have encountered so many of the things you mentioned here.
omfg each video just gets better and better I LOOOOOVE all the work you guys are putting into all these videos.
How could Jazza be a hobby tourist? thanks to him I found out I could paint minis and how to do it, and because of him I found channels like squidmar that pushed my painting technics further. Jazza is not only the resort at the vacation plance, he's the airline that takes you there.
Not knowing the rules and being scoffed at, is legit the reason why i NEVER got into ANYTHING..
My dad love trains, and collects models, so we where often inside hobby stores, i remember seeing Warhammer and ask if that was something i could paint, and they just told my dad "no its only for boys"..
My dad saw a LARP store and saw my enthusiasm and we tried to figure out what it was and how to play but again i got the "its for boys" comment.
DnD again "no girls allowed" i tried playing computer with the guys in school but "girls don't play red alert" every sport, every hobby, i have always been turned away from or forced to enjoy from the outside looking in.
My now partner loves playing computer games with me - board games - not DnD, but other systems and home brew stories and settings - I paint HIS warhammer stuff - i still don't do sports but that's just me being lazy! He invites me to everything he does because he loves to share his hobby and life with me.
Fudge people who gate keep honestly.. They are silly, sad creatures who lives in a world long gone from reality.
My sister and mines generation are lucky for the tabletop community that's here now. That sucks that it was that way.
Hearing Jazza “wasn’t allowed” to play D&D even though his brother, He who Shall Not Be Named, owned them makes so much sense for that person now.
Had the exact same thought, it just made so much sense, I almost said "of course" out loud
He who not be named? Shad? Is that his real name? Does Jazza not talk to him anymore?
@@Aurora07 Yeah it’s Shad, he probably still does but he doesn’t seem to associate with him in the public eye at all because of how far Shad went off the alt-right pipeline. I don’t wanna actually speculate on the relationship between two brothers so I won’t. However, as Shad as become this ultra conservative gatekeeper of pop culture, it makes sense he wouldn’t allow Jazza to play
@tamaiofthesea ah ok so I just saw jazzas video addressing things, it's unfair that people were demanding he "pick a side" . Should have left it there. though i know he didnt go into too much detail he still seemed to throw shad under the bus (figure of speech). Shame as I liked the video few years ago of them talking about Ai "art" and a colab of them making 3D printed swords? thought they were great duo, so this explains why we don't see more like that.
@@Aurora07 what video was that?
I give 10 coffee beans and 3 ugly laughing cry tears to that coffee segment. Loved it. Also yeah, I wouldn't say this one was the first one that felt podcasty, I feel that you guys are more comfortable with the format and just nerding. Great conversation, being a international viewer, didn't know about the term having so much baggage. Its sad, hobbies are for having fun and sharing, thats what make them hobbies
"Going to game stores, looking at paint jobs"
That's me, right there, Jazza. And it alongside watching some videos and talking with the staff of my local store, gave me the kick 8n the pants to get started.
I watched Jazza as an entertainment thing purely until the miniatures box came out and i got my jazzy strikers. Cut to years later. I am now running two dnd games one for my younger neice and nephews. I am currently making models for their dnd characters for the second campaign these 6-10 year olds will be a part of. Every time they come over they can tell me exactly what happened the last session and are amped up to start the next one. My wifes work has hosted multiple craft nights where we all get together and paint or work on whatever craft side by side. I work 16-18 hours days and my hobbies are the main thing that brings me joy. It all startd because jazza and tabletop time ended their videos with "tell us your thoughts or what you are working on" So thank you for sharing your passion.
I for one love that Warhammer is becoming a household name, I've had a Drs appointment and ended up discussing with my Dr about it because his son has joined a club at school and now they both have started the hobby! The more people enjoy it the more we all get together! so win win win IMO
Ah, yeah, we can now discuss 40k with the doctor for the low low price of having DEI and wokism crammed down our throats by a company that literally made a manifesto saying they want to get rid of the fans who supported them for decades if said fans don't agree with their Disney-like policies. What a time to be alive!
Are you okay? Feel like a nerve has been struck, anything a random person on the internet like me can do to help?
@@PraetorGixSo GW putting out a message that they don't support fascists and their idolization of the imperium is them "disavowing the people that made them"?
The people who made 40k were openly satirical about fascism in the imperium and the way you tried to spin that is a clear self report. 😂
Still love the flashback videos that show prep-boy Dave 🤣
The hobby tourist thing must be a result of culture in general becoming more tribal. I've experienced it myself: I went down to my local hobby store, entered a blood bowl league - yet everyone excluded me and they stayed and played in their own little clique, despite me repeatedly asking for games on Discord. When I called them out on this, a very select few started including me. I then suggested maybe because it's a league we should all have to play each other. The boss then kicked me from the Discord server for questioning him and his league rules.
Boss sounds like a douche tbh, that’s an absolutely awful way to treat people.
@@ger5956 Well, if you listen to his side of the story, he'd probably say I got kicked for being rude. I see this on UA-cam a lot - it's been normalised to block/cancel anyone who disagrees with you - which has made the tribal culture only get worse. So fragile are some people's egos, they conflate disagreement with attack - and their immediate instinct is to block the "attacker" to preserve their echo chamber where they are King.
I was so worried about this since my local League was nothing but enfranchised players (including some WTC team Canada players I discovered) so I was so worried I'd be mocked and excluded for bringing my unpainted minis to play. I wasn't... and that's the story about where all my money went.
I only found jazza from the colab with minis. Seemed like a fun guy so popped to the channel and was shocked how big it was. Glad you got back in and you're cracking on.
Great video love seeing Jazza back on the channel I hope he comes in more to show some of the stuff he has been working on. An army showcase from Jazza ??
when Jazza mentioned being introduce to the hobby by his cousin, i could really relate to that as my cousin introduced me first to Space crusade, then battle masters then Epic 2nd edition, which absolutely blew my mind. The hordes of tanks and little men streaming across a table and clashing in huge piles of plastic was glorious. My cousin mostly won because I was more excited about sending huge armoured waves across the table to get slaughtered in tactically dubious assaults. Games took a whole day to deploy and a day and half to play. I stopped playing after I started university which was the end of the 90s and into the new millennium. I took up the hobby again last year, but leaned into 40k minis and my cousin once again introduced me to a gaming club that he went to. And it's such a joy when there's a group of men all in their 40s and 50s some bringing their children to the club and all just having a blast pushing little plastic and resin figures across a table and rolling dice while yelling at the downfall of their favourite squad or when they somehow roll 4 6s in a one go.
Thank you for touching on this. My older bother was also into and I wanted to be but wasnt allowed to, in highschool dated and later married someone that played and he tried but we spoke very different languages (me art him numbers) and the how to and stuff was always too much at once. Sorta became friends with the local game shop employee but then he got a girl friend and I didnt exist anymore that was hard but I kept at it. We were playing on day at a tournament at the local game store and this middle aged guy (I was still in college at the time) was such a stickler for rules and loved to make people look stupid. We disagreed on a rule and because he was him everyone agreed with him. I lost because of it, looked it up after and was right. I brought it up and got like “huh well now the shop knows too” brought it to the next game and he told me that if I couldnt let one little lose go I would never be good to which everyone laughed…laughed at be for being right to the person that was always a stickler for rules and would NEVER let any of them go…so I said I guess thats why hes never going to be good because he had to lie about rules to beat college girls and I never played at that shop again. Got a divorce from the gamer too and just recently started caring again cause of your channel.
Thank you all for addressing this. “Tourists” or whatever are still valid players.
So sorry about these bullies
I made the "mistake" of walking into a hobby store and asking about the "forty thousand figurines". The look of disgust and derision from the store clerk made me feel so insignificant, it tainted my interest in the genre, leaving a bad first impression. It had enough of an effect on me that I never took up the hobby and didn't bother picking up any of the manuals or sets.
God, I'm sorry to hear that. I know I'm new in the sense of miniatures, but I've loved the lore for years I couldn't imagine being that stuck up.
Murray bringing in the step ladder like it's nothing, lmao
The bullying and gatekeeping within the hobby has always existed. The weirdest experience that is kinda related to this that I had was at GW Parramatta back in the early 2000s (when it was in Westfield Parramatta). An employee (now ex-employee) who I believe was the store manager there was a wiccan and so one day he when he saw a kid wearing a WWJD bracelet abused the crap out of him shouting crap like "your God wants you to kill me" "kill me now" and stuff like that at him. The kid was like 12. I was something like 15 or so and playing a game in the store at the same time. Other staff were cool there though. I have to admit that him and that behaviour didn't make me keen to come play in that store.
Jazza's start with 40k was like mine I also started with Blood Angels and the 3rd Edition starter set. I actually went into the GW store in Parra and painted a space marine. I actually went in to start playing Warhammer Fantasy because some friends of mine had models which I saw but they didn't play anymore. The guy in the store convinced me to start playing 40k instead because fantasy was really not popular at the time in that store at least.
They asked me what my favourite colour was and at the time it was red. Then he proceeded to tell me about the Blood Angels which I just thought were the best. I quickly changed my guys to be used for Chaos (which people were fine with) because having to have enough alternative models for Death Company when you roll to see if they fell to Death Company sounded way too expensive for me. Also changing to Chaos allowed me to find my love of conversions.
I only played D&D in the past five years or so now. This was after other RPGs and years of helping to run a Geek Club where we played board games.... but that's skipping a lot of my hobby journey.
I apologize in for that experience. M9st of us pagans aren't like that
I love the friendship this crew has. Great talk today! Nice to have J. drop by for a visit.
Coffee bitz has been a wonderful addition. Please keep up the awesome creativity!
If people on the Internet are making fun of you your probably right and haveing more fun than them keep going your on the right path
I was so scared at first to get back into the hobby bc i left due to not so great experiences. i found a local gamestore and decided to just go to it and see how it feels. it was honestly such a welcoming store with the owners just being super friendly that it started to feel like a second home almost. i've been going there for 3 years now and we have build a full on community. it made me realize that it is so important to have a strong and welcoming community.
If I was to make any comment to anyone looking to get into AoS or 40k as a hobby. Bring yourself to the table, be as creative as you want to be or collect it like you're collecting a historical war game. It's all up to you! I myself am very much on the creative side of things, I love to make my own factions within the lore because I can
Clean cut Dave looking like he's about to head to church.
Well done team.
The Hobby is whatever you want it to be for you.
Insecure people label others to make themselves feel better, more justified.
It's a sad world where people feel that putting others down because they are different to them, and to boost their own ego, is acceptable.
my experiance has been much the same as jazza, I've been in the hobby since second eddition 40k, collecting and painting models on and off though my life. I've got many half - 80% painted projects but never fully got one up to 2000 points so i've never had a game of 40k in my life. maybe this will be the this year or next i find a place in melbourne for a game and to show case my hard work on the table.
Great vid...love hearing peoples hobby journeys...honestly I really enjoy listening people talk about thing they are passionate about!
I do how hate any form of trying to belittle someone when they are just trying to enjoy a hobby...and it happens all the time! I mean, how often do people throw around the "you're not a gamer!". Thankfully, I don't think I have ever had to deal with it personally...yet :)
Is it weird that I kinda love the name "hobby tourist". I imagine this person who loves passion and goes around joining others in their hobbies. I might not be into "blank" hobby but could definitely appreciate the passion others have. 🤩
W-w-wait, this requires my full attention; I’m going to need a coffee (pauses video, shenanigans ensue) …ok where were we?
I've been playing this game since I was 13. I dont count when I was 11 cause oh boy did I not know what I was doing.
I've not come across the term hobby tourist till now.
As I think of this term and ruminate on it I can see "hobby tourist" taken as Jazza said it initially.
Someone who doesn't engage with the hobby, but wants to speak as if they where an authority on the hobby.
With this in mind, the idea of someone who already doesn't like a hobby you enjoy trying to change it on a fundamental level feels gross.
The mentality of, for example someone who says "I don't like basket ball so I'm going to change it for everyone so I can like it." is unsettlingly selfish.
Sometimes change is good. Sometimes adding in stuff is good. I'd rather that change come from the community, and not pressured by someone who doesn't engage with the hobby. This doesn't mean you need to know everything about the hobby but at the very least engage in some constructive manner.
Unless the community as a whole believes the ball should not go in the hoop, let the players strive for the hoop, and if the odd man out wants to play hoopless basketball no one should stop him but at the same time they shouldn't be obliged to change the whole game for everyone. Cause you can't please everyone.
It's likely a thought and sentiment most people in the hobby have floating around in the back of their heads and it shows when it's the first thought Jazza describes. It's easy to see how bad actors in the rage bait community can take the idea and warp it. It's the idea of getting you worked up over something you don't like and sprinkling a little extra in so now you're thinking about the thing you dislike, and something's been snaked in to get you thinking about that little other thing too till it becomes a big thing in your head along side the first.
Wait, what? My initial thought when you said hobby tourist was kind of the hobby version of meta chasers: just picking up random models that look cool, without really committing to the faction, and that pobably wouldn't bother me. but someone turning away an inquisitive new-comer just seems idiotic. Ask questions, get involved, the world gets much more interesting and friendlier the more you know
This is a wonderful message, short version, don't be the person you'd not want to meet.
It amazes me how awesome, wholesome and welcoming Jazza is when other brother ended up as such a toxic gatekeeping prick
It's crazy how the same home launched two vastly different people.
loved this video. was interesting to see how you both met and the negative name calling of some people in the hobby. you are right this is a welcoming hobby and all levels should be encouraged, its like Hellfire Club from Stranger Things, a safe place for all of us. Dave- would be great to hear of your back story with the hobby aswell.
Love this Hobby, Got into From playing Dnd and being really excited about making and painting a miniature to represent my character, as during the campaign we played with my friend’s miniatures and they were just generic ones ( one of my friends was using a batman mini as a proxy even though this was a pirate themed game and he was not batman lol) and so i re-created my character on Hero forge and hit order. But now i need paints while i waited for my order to arrive. So i ordered this Reaper bones painting kit that came with 20 paints or so and 3 dnd models. I used those to practice painting my first ever miniatures and i was hooked. It was so much fun seeing this little dude come to life as i paint the colors on to him. All the while picturing in my head his story and what makes him tick ( the first one was just a skeleton with a bow lol) But every time i felt i was getting better and better with each model. After painting those 3 i went to a barnes and nobles and saw they were selling a warhammer painting bundle that came with 3 pots of paint and 3 primaris space marines. I picked that up and got to painting and had a blast with it. I was so excited that i did this accomplishment i posted the first one to reddit and got a few likes and some helpful comments. I instantly painted my second one and saw much improvement thanks to the helpful comments on reddit. Then my hero forge minature finally arrived. It was time to put my month of training to the test so i could paint my dnd character and impress my friends the next game night. Unfortunately dnd would be put on hiatus because of covid and i never did get to bring my character to dnd night. But it was too late, i had been bitten by this hobby bug and i was itching to paint more models. Fast forward to today and I have way too many models, way too many paints, and not nearly enough time to paint them all. But I love this hobby, and love watching videos of people expressing that same love! Ive never met anyone in person that is in the hobby ( or maybe i have and its never came up) but by playing other miniature games with people who dont paint but like to play games, its still a way i can share my hobby and have fun with friends
why am I so invested in the coffee narrative
Being female some people may think I shouldn't be a 40K fan - but I don't care myself. Recently I was approached by a woman in a gaming shop because I was the first female she had ever seen interacting with 40K (I was putting together a combat patrol for Adeptus Sororistas) and it was great to be able to introduce her to the shop owner and other fans who were milling around. "Hobby tourist" wow now that is such a stupid term.
Those coffee break clips are awesome, the ladder part was genius XD.
What I don't get is where do these came from? Is it some sort of internal joke that grew out of control?
I wanted an excuse to get a coffee at work
@@TabletopTime Seems legit.
Crisis Protocol is a great skirmish game that really captures the super hero flavor. I love that Jazza is giving it a go. We have a growing community for it here and Maine and the North East overall.
The coffee bits are starting to take more effort than just painting up models for a mini showcase video at this point.
Yeah you're totally right 30 minutes of filming = top not paint job 😂
@@TabletopTime lol. I refuse to believe you wrote the bits, scheduled all the actors, gathered the props and costumes, and filmed everything in 30 minutes. But I am of course kidding.
I loved The Paladin game and short video. Kept looking for a sequel to it but never knew Jazza had created it.
Dave, Jazza- Speaking of ‘tourists’ I’ve got a bunch of kitbashed war hammer models i have put together (because i really enjoy customizing the models as an artist perspective-beyond the game)
-and as i have not played the table top… I’ve no idea if they would be even remotely useful or wanted maybe as artistic collections- but interested if you would be willing to take a look at em and let me know if they would ever be worth anything (as in would people be interested in them, and what would a reasonable price be to sell em). Anyway at the very least it would be good to hear your opinion on it. Cheers to all of you guys/gals there
I should add too that it was Jazzas space bears and the awesome projects you’ve all done at tabletop that inspired me to start working on models in the first place- so again even if you guys dont have time to respond-- thanks for the inspiration to take up a hobby that keeps the creativity going!
Dave looked like Ben Wyatt from Parks and Recreation, that’s amazing. He should do a Severance coffee time skit!
I’ve only been doing warhammer for a few years. I barely play because I collect feudal guard, kitbash all models including chaff, and paint so slowly. It feels like I make a unit a year, so I feel like a tourist
I learned the phrase/term with this video. I've acquired a lot of W40k models/kits, a bunch of paints, haven't built/painted anything (YET?!), watch Eons of Battle, Poorhammer, Auspex Tactics, Majorkill, Zorpazorp, Battle Brother Sam, and (obviously) TTT.
get it built and painted!
How have you not heard it before now?... then again it has been more popularized due to the many heresies in the TTRPG scene. Most notably with White Wolf and Wizards of the Coast.
when I first got into the hobby a guy called me a hobby tourist because I'm a girl , From that point on I could not take the term seriously.
That would be because that guy is an idiot and probably mildly sexist. Never really understood this whole guy/girl only hobby things. I know when I was growing up tom-boys were a thing. A wonderful thing.
OH MY GOD, the single frame of BABY DAVE WAS WILD at 15:00 minutes
Please please please share the link to that old school video of young TTT!?!?
unrelated to the topic but Short hair clean shaved Dave, looks like he'd be Australian Steve form Blues Clues
I honestly didn't really know of this term till now but i think it's going to be a useful tool in my verbal arsonal for when i see non warhammer hobbist political commentators who barely ever touch warhammer outside of times it's useful for them to generate rage bait content such as that guy who couldn't even pronounce adeptus custodes and was behaving like the anti christ had been found because gw gaves us a female custodes short story. the majority of their stuff is political content and if they have models i would be surprised
I find it quite ironic that the political activists say "Be tolerant of the way things are" AFTER they get what they want. Why couldn't they have been tolerant to the way things were? They are by definition intolerant themselves.
I consider Jazza to be more of a tourist guide rather than a tourist. I have a Huion, 2nd actually, because of his digital art many years back. I kind of started with 40K when he started showing off things. I didn't make a box like he did but I have a setup pretty much alike.
So it might not be the deepest dive every time but there is a lot of discovery&inspiration watching vids every now and then.
that 3rd edition box was my 1st box after i have the paint set with the clip togeather space marine man thats goin back some years my 1st dame was a few years befor that with 2nd ong how the game has chaned over the year just about to get back in to it again and carnt wait
Man, my way into the hobby is almost a mirror image of Jazza's, crazy!
"When I was just starting high school I found a White Dwarf in a thrift shop"
I had that one...
"These were the golden days"
..oh, I'm OldHammer 😅
My only thing is I see this from either side. When both can not be assholes to others is when that could realistically end. Otherwise it becomes different echo chambers.
I have legit blacklisted that term on socials. It brings nothing to the community, and it's said by jerks.
I suspect there are people who just want "clout," but i kinda feel like the users of 'tourist' are just as guilty of it as anyone else.
Im I a jerk for saying that to jerks?
I wouldn't block language - that's a gate keeper thing to do. You have to be the change you want to see. By blocking, you are excluding points of view and thus contributing to division.
I only found out about it now. What a stupid term lol, what kind of loser would use that unironically
@nicholasgordon4999 i do not have to do spit. It's a valueless conversation that they'll quite happily keep wanking away at without me needing to see it.
I can relate super hard. I could've gotten into warhammer when I was 14 and had my first job, but I was literally laughed out of the only store in town, by the owner and his friends when I came up to their game on the side during a magic Friday. I just asked how much it would cost to start playing. I was expecting 500-1000. But they literally laughed that I couldn't afford it. Then I was watching lore videos during free time at work years later and got into painting. I still haven't gotten to play because the store here doesn't play AoS or killteam, or anything but full scale 2k point 40k and I really dont care about every faction being techy looking. One day I'll have a friend group that's interested.
The only "Hobby Tourists" are the rage bait culture warriors who show up for five minutes to scream about female custodes, or when GW says the hobby is for everyone and then disappear again when there aren't any more clicks to be farmed and go back to yelling about how video game characters aren't sexy enough these days.
@TheCrimsonArchivist not saying you are, but you picked an odd time to complain about the way GW handles new lore when they have frequently dropped dramatic new lore info as a couple of lines of fluf
Had this painting session at the very beginning of my hobby journey, to learn with one of the guys from the official local GamesWorkshop in town. Had already painted a bit (badly ^^') my own Space Marins Chapter, which I called the Space Diamons since I was a geology geek and had learn that nothing was sturdier than diamonds. Was really proud of the idea, too. And yet while talking about it with said store worker, the guy (around 30) laughed in my face (13 yo kid) for having a "girly" name for my chapter. wtf ?
never went back to said store, and even now that I'm back in the hobby (ended quitting 'cause not enough money to get figs and painting gear. it's nice to be an adult and have money to spend ^^), i am not going back there. Plenty of space around to meet great people and buy good stuff !
edith : funny how that last bit by Dave links up with a lot of different hobbies. For instance, how the LEGO community is, and how some adult fans laugh at Bionicle Fan for "not being real lego fan", and vice-versa...
Drinking my coffee during the coffee bits section
Jazza was close right off the bat, but Dave missed the mark.
“Hobby tourism” is not a xenophobic term. Rather, it goes hand-in-hand with “Warhammer is for anyone, not everyone.” If you love what we love, or want to learn to love it, come on in! If you just want to take it from us and change it into something else, why would we support that?
And it absolutely does not exclude women or minorities from the hobby (plenty of both fighting against tourism). The loudest voices on Twitter, UA-cam, and everywhere else in favor of changing Warhammer are all white men… typically taking it upon themselves to speak on behalf of women and minorities, and calling any who disagree with them names like “pick me.”
The issue, as Jazza recognized, is that the “tourists” are people less invested in 40K who demand mass changes be made to accommodate them… like tourists saying they love a locale but that the locals should speak their language, that the restaurants need to serve their cuisine, and so on.
And it is interesting that you brought up the bullying of the past considering the tourists love to tell nerds that their passion does not matter, that they are virgins (incels), that they need to “touch grass” rather than obsess over their passions, that it’s good that it is being taken from them, and on, and on.
And that gets to the heart of this. This is the latest case of an old nerd passion being commodified into a mainstream fad, something to show off on Instagram. And nerds are being bullied by the tourists who demand Warhammer change for them.
Edit to add: Telling people to play old editions while Warhammer is changed for new people is crap. After all the time and money invested, they should just accept that the hobby is no longer for them? To accommodate people who have never been fans before? Really?
Anything tourists could possibly want was always accommodated via homebrew and kitbash. Why does Warhammer itself have to make their desires canon over the desires of people who have kept it all alive since 1987?
Finally someone who gets it. They absolutly miss the mark with what it means if someone is called a tourist. Granted like any other pupular phrase it gets missused once it started to get popular and its a shame TTT is spreading such nonsense.
You put to words much more eloquently than myself. I ended up diverting into the topic of Hobby Activists.
Modern-day hobby tourists are people who are politically motivated to take over a space and have it cater to them specifically, at the expense of the real fans. You can see this trend happening in everything that becomes remotely popular, and it always kills the thing they've taken over.
This…
Can you provide a single example of this happening? Or an example of these supposed "political motivations"? I suspect the answer is going to be no.
Star Wars, Marvel, Dr. Who, Star Trek. It seems the answer wasn't "no" after all...
@@Scarecrow19882011 star wars, Marvel comics, Ring of Power off top of my head. Helldivers would be the latest I even bothered looking at with the constant push to just let people have modern day political symbols on their capes, not because it'd make the game better at all but because they want their politics represented in this popular game. The same people who'd then raise a fuss if the company then let people with opposing political beliefs also have their politics represented in game. Now what is the difference between the first three and Helldivers, Helldivers at least to my knowledge has refused to budge on letting modern day politics be in their game and despite the issues caused by Sony is still going rather strong. On the other hand comics industry is just about dead as everyone changes to manga, Ring of Power flopped despite all their changes to Tolkien lore they made up to fit their series while claiming its canon and Star Wars has lost a major chunk of its fanbase to the point it aint profitable any more.
@@PraetorGix I still remember the divide in the knitting community. THE KNITTING COMMUNITY FFS. The term tourist might not have be enused back then but it would have been on spot in its original meaning. And the fault line is excactllly the same like in any other hobby that got infested since then.
I’m an absolute hobby tourist, I’m rubbing shoulders with knowing fuck all of the lore and mechanics of warhammer, but man do i love painting them.
'Warhammer wouldn't be where it is without roleplaying"... Acshuaaaally, D&D wouldn't be there without Chainmail. The grand old daddy of RPGs has its roots in OG traditional wargaming. It's a constant pendulum of influence between these two. At the moment, with such a focus to skirmish games and streamlined systems, we see the RPG side being more influencial and games that are more granular or simulation focussed getting less momentum. It'll come around with a new wave of games and gamers. It always do.
Personally, I welcome anyone, but I don't appreciate people coming in and wanting change without trying to understand why older or more diehard fans would be annoyed at what they are trying to do. They can make female Space Marines and Banana Boys as an army without any issue, but actively trying to change the world that people are committed to based on personal ethics and opinions that not everyone shares, it should go both ways. We should respect their opinions and dreams, but they can't simply tread on ours and call it justified. Gatekeeping as a whole is not very good, but some elements have a reason. Fans are scared to see what we love change to an extent that it stops being Warhammer. Rule of cool tops everything, but pushing your taste and preferences and ethics on everyone else is not okay. Us as fans should welcome everyone, but explain that this is the world and that's how it is and how we want to keep it. However, with your models and your lore, do whatever you want. We will support you in any way we can.
Reminds me of the bastardization of the WHFB Elves around... I want to say 6th? It was around the time Matt Ward got his grubby fingers on the Elves and pretty much rewrote them as Eldar. Complete with Slaanesh thirsting for their souls above all else, having Way Stones that functioned as an Infinity Circuit... yeah. That was probably done to streamline the lore and make it less confusing for consumers. Never mind the whole point of the Eldar and Elves having different backgrounds was to keep their product lines separate.
I was a Jazza, grew up a big fan of GW but too anxious to really go in and get involved in the store, and embarrassed because I couldn't afford enough minis to play. I tried a few times to go into the store and play a trial game, but there was always a regular there that would push ahead of me, so I just played smaller games at home with my family.
I remember as a teenager, I once plucked up enough courage to enter the FLGS's painting competition, and came second. All I can remember is sheepishly hovering at the back of the store as the winners were being announced and the sudden disappearance of cheers, and the rustling whispers of "who's that guy?" "No way that beats XXX's one" "Never seen that shit before" "he's not even from here" from the regulars when my name was called out, and the feeling of shame and exclusion was so strong that it completely soured my feeling of achievement and I was too embarrassed to even go back and pick up my mini after it stopped being displayed.
I'm sure to those guys, I was probably a "hobby tourist" even though I'd been painting, collecting and reading lore since the early 90's.
I've been in the hobby since 1st edition came out and have been accused of being a tourist, based only on not sharing someone's opinion.
Like with all things, there needs to be a balance.
Too much gatekeeping stagnates the hobby, disincentivizes progression of the lore and causes the community to die off when there aren’t enough new fans to replace the old
If you don’t gatekeep at all, you run the risk of losing what makes your hobby unique, all edges sanded smooth, the effort to appeal to everyone making the product some ubiquitous slop that could come from anywhere but happens to wear the mask of your preferred hobby
I applaud the effort to get more people into Warhammer and there is definitely too strong of a backlash against recent updates
But also you have to actively make sure you don’t lose what makes your hobby great because you had to change too much of it for the sake of new hobbyists
He honest jazza- you wanted to talk about this so you could wear that Hawaiian shirt on camera
I've been called a tourist and i've been around since the rt days. If you use the term tourist as a slur, that's all we need to know about you ;)
Conquest Last Argument of Kings is always there for you!
As a person who enjoys playing games, does that make me a game tourist?
Well the internet just got smaller for me! 2 channels that I'm independently subscribed to coming together...completely unaware of any previous connection
People LOVE Space Bears! Me included.
I started with the love for the story's in the early white dwarf magazines,started collecting a few marines but nothing great,lost interest for a few years while i delved into world of warcraft,got given a mix of old models which brought me back into the hobby ,read the space wolf omnibus and i was lore crazy from there,me and my brother hammered through the Horus heresy (he's been collecting for a while, multiple armies) he brought a big box which was half plague marines which i personally love there lore so i ended up with 60+ models for basically nothing iv added Typhus and a few more myself ,the community online i avoid to a extent because there all mental,my local store are great guys they'll help but there's no pressure which is brilliant for people overwhelmed with the variety and anxiety,iv had the "look" but it's from people who have no clue but most iv met are good people 🤘
Making and looking at sick little things is bloody mean, I was watching a siege studio video before this just marvelling in the cool little dudes. We should be tourists going and appreciating fun stuff together
I've mainly seen the term used by ppl who have no interest in a hobby but once it does something "woke" act like they have been invested and start complaining about it for a month or two. (and they say nothing on more notable issues like price increases, or very recently the removal of fairly new models like some of the stormcast and warcry)
Oooooooh! I started right before the magazine came out, I got all the first magazines which had plastic miniatures... Goblins, last alliance...
can’t believe dave didn’t recognise jazz’s from his abc3 show
To humour the gatekeeper's point of view. Preventing any type of hobby from getting mainstream traction, is stopping the price gauging and extreme opportunistic practices that come with anything related to tourist short term cash grab. Mass appeal also brings unwanted attention by hate parties of late that only want to make their hateful point of views manifest in everything they turn their eye on. Warrhamer is a tongue in cheek parody, but it can be severely misunderstood if it isn't taken as that. Preserving things outside of the mainstream media is like keeping the colonists outside of your land. I am not supporting this take but i can see fair points in it as well. It is the same problem with any kind of art. You want great artists to be able to create art , but they also need money to pay their bills. In closure, i think it's high time we look things more stoically and focus on what we enjoy and ignore the static.