Prusa VS Bambu Round 2: Who Prints Color Faster?
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Can the Prusa XL print in color faster than a Bambu Lab with AMS in ludicrous mode??
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The prusa xl is an engineering marvel. I would have never though of having 5 separate nozzle in 5 separate docks
It's not the first printer to do that
Concept has been around on cnc and various other industrial machines for decades. It's not even first 3D printer to have tool changer but could say first to make it easy to use out of the box at under 10k. The e3D tool changer was very similar to this but the setup of that thing was something else.. very difficult, manual and time consuming.
It could be even better but there are old big company patents that limits design.
@_Richard_F___ It's not because they're both toolchangers that one is a copy of the other... The only similarities is the fact that there are multiple printhead with their PTFE tube, other things like the lock mechanism etc are not the same. a Ferrari and a Lamborghini are both supercars, but no one copied the other.
In fact on their blog E3D said that they just wanted to prove that toolchangers can be a thing and that they succeed because some makers like Prusa with their XL has made it on a consumer product.
Oh man! Now I have a new printer on my wish list... and I thought the BambuLab printers were the expensive option 😅 Great Demo, thanks Denise
Glad you enjoyed it!
I just recently got my X1C + AMS , but damn, the XL looks sweet.. I unfortunately don't have the space for it.. but the time & filament saved on multicolor prints seems amazing!
Thanks for this video =)
Denise sounds like a really good human being. Never subscribed this quicker ever.
I would imagine it's FAR less wasteful of filament :)
You decide how you print but this filament waste is a false equivalency. Look up Dollars and Cents, Bambu Lab's Filament Waste True Cost.
Even if you print multicolor everyday on defaults you would need hundreds of thousands of filament swaps to get to the break even price of a bambu x1c vs xl.
If you tweak some minor settings that is well over a million color swaps. how many years/decades of printing is that?
Purge volumes can be reduced
prime tower can be reduced or eliminated.
The waste argument has been thrown on it's head as EVERY fdm printer will have waste of some sort. There are NO exceptions. You are literally spending big bucks to save pennies in "waste" that if you really cared about it you would either recycle it or use a one of many options to reduce it.
The bambu fanboys will try to tell you it's not a big deal, but yes your right the XL is much less wasteful. A multiple colour model on an AMS can waste more filament than it uses to print the model. The XL tower (if you have one at all) will be. Small fraction of the amount used to print the model
Fanboyism aside it's just math.
So let's be clear a single filament change is about 2-5 swaps per gram. or 2000-5000 swaps a roll.
Saying the XL is less wasteful, while true, doesnt make up for the fact it costs thousands more and you *wont see that cost savings for years if ever* depending on how you print.
Single color you prints will see no benefit for the XL if anything it is a slower less capable printer unless you need the size but there are far cheaper options.
Multicolor prints will print faster BUT then you have 5 tool heads, more room for error more nozzles to take care of, more points of failure etc.
For the cost difference you can get multiple printers printing more parts than a single printer.
But the argument still stands you are wasting dollars to save pennies. Even if you buy ridiculous $100 rolls of filament the cost is still not in the XL favor.
@@AwwwSnapperz would I have bought my XL just to save filament? No of course not... it's a nice feature, but not a killer reason.
Same is true for the speed......it's nice, but (for me) not critical, although I am sure for some people this will be very important.. However what is critical for me it being able to print multiple materials.....I also need to be able to print different colours of TPU in the same print.....pretty sure the bambu's can't do that?
There are a bunch of reasons to get an XL but the filament waste argument always annoyed me the most as you see from above. The XL shines on 5 material printing, size and speed of filament swaps.
The prevailing theory is you cannot use tpu in the AMS and you would be 100% right. TPU is a NO GO for the AMS or AMS lite
But when there is a need there will be a way. at least one company makes AMS compatible "TPU" called (AMS) STTPU which has a shore hardness of 80 D when dry 65A in softness when wet.
In comparison PLA shore hardness is around 77 D.
TPU is typically 60-95A
Theoretically you can mix tpu into parts on a p1s or X1C if the marketing claims can be believed, and if so that negates another win for the XL. ( I havent tried it personally but am aware of the product)
Fantastic video, Denise! Solid and informative (and entertaining!) content and I am also super impressed with the editing. Well done!
Great video, thanks for posting. Yes, the XL is WAY faster at printing multi-color over the Bambu printers, but, the XL can only print with 5 colors, the X1C, P1P, and P1S can print up to 16! That’s a big deal for me. I love color in my prints, and nothing I hate more than being restricted to 5 colors or less. Especially when it comes to printing Wekster’s Minis. His Mini Dr Who looks awesome when printed with eight colors. Sorry Prusa, I love you a lot, but I need more than five colors. 😊
They can actually print up to 16 colors, which is crazy. But if you want really crazy color options, 3d chameleon has tested their system, which will work on a bambu, with 64 colors and that is completely insane😂
@@How2Texan that’s right, they can print up to 16 colors, I forgot that. I was thinking 12 because that’s the setup that I currently have, I’ll get another AMS eventually. I’ve edited my original comment. As for the Chameleon, I’ve been watching videos about that. I’m thinking about putting one on my Railcore, I had the Palette 3 Pro on it, but just couldn’t take the failed prints any longer so the Palette is all boxed up, not quite sure what I want to do with it yet. But there might be a Chameleon in my future! 😁
@oldsalty3d122 if you have the ability to go to a rep rap festival, they usually have swap meet tables where you can sell your 3d printer equipment. I will be taking some of my old stuff up to the RMRRF next month.
@@How2Texan I would so love to go to a RepRap festival, unfortunately I’m not going to be able to make it this year, work has got me pretty busy. But I’ll definitely keep that in mind for when I get the opportunity.
Not only that, but for the dollar value to quality and features Prusa is really lagging behind on modern innovation. Their top printers are great but at a heavy cost compared to the competition. Even just talking about color printing a Bambu p1s + AMS vs the XL with at least 2 toolheads... I mean hell that would need a LOT of purging filament to bridge that cost for me imo. Honestly would rather spend that cost difference in more fun filament, printers, ams units, etc than have "that one great shiny printer" cost wise. Would probably also be more interesting to build a voron with the tool changer and material systems instead.
Even the mk3(s(+)) with MMU2 has much faster colour change than the Bambulab printers with standard settings. Actually unloading and loading takes longer than a toolchange on the XL. However, the main time consuming action on a Bambulab is cut&poo. While it increases reliability of a filament change compared to the mk3/MMU setup and avoid the need to tune every filament (ramping profiles), with a Revo or TUN hotend the mk3(s(+)) does quite well, producing less waste than a Bambu. On small multicolour prints the old mk3 with MMU2/3 actually need less time over all than a Bambu. But it is less beginner-friendly.
The hard part to guesstimate here is reliability over time of the AMS vs the XL. The XL is going through some public-beta-test growing pains but it's a Prusa. Coming from ownership of Voron, multiple Ender 3 Pros, and multiple Mk3s+, I know which one my money would be on. That said, the X1C is compelling for its automated calibration suite. As someone who is over my 3D-printer-maintenance-as-a-hobby phase, I really, really like how close it gets to just being a tool where you design cool stuff and push the big green GO button and forget about it.
Gone through.. it is currently fine, it's had so many updates in last 6 months it feels like another machine, the problems have been ironed out.
so which is more reliable? the XL or AMS?;p i have only a mk3s and it's running fine for years:)
Haha...i was going to make this video when my XL finally comes in.
I do disagree with your conclusion on speed. In a situation where you only have room or power for a single 3d printer the prusa xl would be faster. But if time is money, and money is also money, you can buy two p1p combos and then you would be slightly faster than the prusa xl using the print in your video. And for the price of the prusa xl you could buy 4 p1p combos and be more than twice the speed of the xl.
There are of course so many factors that could be considered. Neither machine is the perfect tool for every print job.
Looking forward to see you at RMRRF again this year.
You are correct - if this is about a business, then multiple reliable printers win
That's a valid argument! If we're looking strictly at money, the Bambu A1 (with a new cable, of course) runs circles around both of these machines. It hurts my heart every time I hear of someone who sold a Mk3 to pay for their Bambu. More printers = more prints!
@@stldenise I sold my MK3S+ for a bambu A1 and for my needs as just a hobbyist then it was perfect and much faster, swapped it for the P1S after the recall which is better still. If your running a business then maybe more is better but for the average user I think the Bambu option is a better option as it just works like an appliance.
Depends on what you want to print as a business Bigger prints goes to the XL Bambu for smaller prints Just have good waste management
@@stldenise Is the A1 better than the P1P?
Well that's ironic, printing mini bookcases in starlight, as im watching you hang the exact color I'm using on the spool holder.
Prusa has had the MMU but I have not heard very many people who are happy with it.
Both machines have their place. I feel like the Bambus are more refined and user friendly especially for someone who has never used a 3d printer before.
If your buying an XL because of wasted material its going to take like 10 years to make up the price difference.
Oh definitely! But I don’t think beginners are going to start with this beast. (At least I hope not😮)
Maybe some people who manufacture multi material or color stuff for selling, they could make the cost back way faster depending on how active the printer is and how much they take money for each printing hour.
That being said, 2 bambus would have the same or even better output for the time, but then its also double the wasted filament and other costs related to running printers
@@Vision-xf8gl Even if you wasted a full KG of material every day (very unlikely). You would more than make up the cost by selling all the extra models you would print with 4 p1s instead of 1 XL...and if you really were worried about the waste because you were making so much then you could invest in a chipper and filament extruder to reuse your waste.
@@UbberMapper yes and no, the cost of those models sold can be from 20% to 50% higher, cost of the 4 printers would be the same as the prusa xl, not to mention the maintenance costs for 4 motion systems maintenance etc etc
Each printer has their own pros and cons when it comes to manufacturing for sale or for hobby use
@@Vision-xf8gl Where i live, with customs and shipping i am going to be close to 5k for a prusa XL. I could get like 8 A1 Combos for that price. Then i would really be cranking out the prints. Considering a single person can easily manage several dozen printers by themselves it would be a no brainer move.
The XL really only has two things going for it that make it worth while. Large multicolor printing, and multi material printing. If you need to print things larger than 257cubed or mix Nylon and TPU into the same print then the XL is what you have to have.
So cool, for the price of single XL you could actually buy 2x X1C with AMS and you would still have $1000 left for a lot of filament. XL filament savings are imaginary when the price is ludicrous. The only true saving here is your time but i doubt it can beat two X1C printers or three P1S. I would agree the Prusa wins but only when it's in the similar price range as competition.
Don't forget that with prusa, you have premium customer support, every part of the machine is repairable, the firmware is opensource. This is the price to have a reliable machine and it worth it
The XL now has a very very very good enclosure now.
Prusa needs a few things to make it compelling at the 4k price.
1. include the enclosure ($650 plus 2 month wait time...)
2. Include 5 HARDENED nozzles($50 x5). Brass nozzles for a device marketed for engineering is a joke.
3. include a camera
4. Better wifi networking option in the box. Why did they chose is a cheap WIFI part? Speed is measured in dialup speeds in year 202X is a joke
Having to buy an enclosure, 5 hardened nozzles and a camera is a huge miss for such an established company.
You should weight bambu "poop" vs prusa's purge tower
That is much much quicker. Thanks for the vid, I basically don't bother doing multi colour prints on my p1p with ams because it takes too long and wastes filament. It's good to know they excellent multi colour printers are going for $4000 give it a few years and they should be a little cheaper. Happy printing
Oh nice, comparing the XL to the P1P since it's open-frame is a better comparison for sure, i've seen some ppl compare the X1C but it's differently capable and not a similar match at all
Would be interesting how many grams the difference of the wasted filament it really is. At all 8 hours difference is huge. Would be interesting to see the power consumption difference too. Or a calculation of how many hours with PLA or ABS/PETG and so on you have to print to get this filament wasted money, as ROI of the additional price for the prusa, IF the prusa really waste less filament.
Oh! I wish I could edit a video to slide extra info in there! The dragon print had 70grams of waste, while that XL purge tower only weighs 12 grams (the size of an average Benchy). I'd have to get back to you on the math, but it's a 💩 ton of prints to get your investment back.
@@stldenisehaha thank for your information 🙂 So we have only the additional hours it took 🙂 and the power consumption, and maybe if the quality is better on the one or the other, which wasn't really easy to see 🙂 And one question I would like still to know - how much % of the print is the waste? Dragon looks like 300g if I am right, or more? Do you know if you can print also higher quality filaments with it, like PA6 or PA12? Have you tried out maybe TPU?
I would be curious to know what the price per speed is for each printer. The cost of the p1s with ams is $1000ish and the cost of 4 tool heads is $3500ish. If you are looking at the speed per dollar spent are they close to the same in that regard. This would only be a competitive comparison for multi-color prints. The other variable that could tilt the scales would be adding up the cost of filament poop.
Im planning on getting my first printer for engineering projects and for the Rc hobby for primarily aircraft. Currently I was fixed on the X1 but the toolchanging feature and the reputation of Prusa made me rethink and look through options. However, the toochanging feature is not that much of a tool i think i will use since i plan on primarily printing single material bodies for printing.
I think the only criteria that i truly value is the final print quality, consistency, ease of use and user interface. In your experience doess the XL print better than the Bambulab or does the X1C have better and smoother prints?
Will the bamboo feeder work on a creality K1C?
Not sure if I want to tie myself to anything out of China. Having seen what happened in the PCB world, I am super reluctant to cede 3D printing to them as well. Go to war with China, suddenly 10,000s of 3D printers don't work :-)
I guess we wait for Ender 3 V4, where they will put multiple tool heads at the top of the printer. V3 has belts on Z axis, so this would not take too much time to go up and switch head. The quesion is who will do this first. Or maybe Bambu will create one? = ) I mean $4000 is $4000 = ))
The Prusa XL is clearly superior in multi material printing. While the X1C is part of a more refined ecosystem, it gives the user a better experience. Now, I wouldn't spend $4000 or $2400 on a machine just to print colored figurines for fun. Even though they are usually compared, they are not even in the same category. That being said the X1C is a more polished, finished product than the XL.
I don't think you can say Bambu has a better ecosystem than Prusa, they're pretty evenly matched. Though, points to Prusa for making their own filament in house. Thanks for stopping by!
@@stldenise Yes, you can. Bambu Lab printers work seamlessly with their slicer and filaments, you can manage the printer from the slicer directly, including video feed and even failure detection. Prusa's ecosystem is not that refined, remote, connection and management is still a work in progress. Sharing files through WiFi was an issue right from release, both MK4 and XL. Prusa connect is still not that feature rich and only allows for basic management. The success of Bambu Lab is mainly due to the whole experience than just a good printer. Prusa is trying to catch up as we speak.
@@stldenise I'm not trying to offend or trigger you but your bias towards Prusa is too evident
Not offended or triggered, and I still love my p1p, except when I have to dig into that AMS to clean it out. @@elleryfg7853
@@stldenise glad to hear that
hell no i would rather 3x p1p with $$$$ left over
How does the XL compare in speed when your model only has one color? Thanks for the informative video.
I have not done a comparison directly, but from what I've seen from other YTers, the Bambu is faster, but a part of that is because they end up printing less filament when it's really hauling ass (because there's only so much flow you can get out of the head). If you print the same model on a Prusa and a Bambu without doing a bunch of tweaking, then weigh them, the Bambu is lighter. It's not clear to me if one or the other of those is "better" -- like, is the Bambu more optimal, or is it sacrificing part strength with less material? Dunno.
i still cant see the prusa be worth the 2k+ price tag. i love the lower waste of filament, and it would be my main reason for getting it, but prusa just wasnt too user friendly and i wouldnt want to put that much money into one when i could buy multiple printers for the same amount of money.
Its a tool changer, it brings a lot more then just color changing. Yes its probably not worth it if you want to only use it for printing in color.
how was the quality and avg speed difference in single color? i have Bambu X1C AMS , Prusa MK3s+ upgraded to Prusa MK3s++ Revo Six and Prusa MK4IS . So far the best quality to speed factor is Mk3S+Revo Six . And Still Mk4 has slightly higher quality than the X1C but still quality of the MK3s+Revo6 was better. Speed wise X1C and MK4IS are with in the 1%-10% avg and Mk3S+Revo Six is with in 10-20% slower avg . Not talking that the Prusa both has a flat Bed while the Bambu X1C has a bad curved bed . Multi color on the X1C i tried a print on AVG from 2 hour print single color becomes 10H almost no prime - 13hour with advised prime . Practically from 1k+H on the X1C i have 20h multicolor as not practical . And was thinking at some point to go to Ulitimaker or now to the XL as a bit cheaper. and Normal Mk3S+ was also superiro quality compare to X1C and Mk4, but much slower than MK3S+RevoSix .
I would love to know how much money someone like a print farm owner would save per year on filament using the XL over a BambuLab printer. I imagine the cost of the XL would eventually be cheaper from an investment standpoint, but I dont know how long that would take. If anyone knows of a study already done on this, please let me know.
I have already took this into consideration.
Lets take the XL fully assembled 4k.
vs an X1C $1449
there would be about a $2500 price difference for filament.
Each poop is about .01-.2 grams a filament so for a single 1kg roll you would need about (at best) 100,000- (at worst)5000 color swaps to chew through a roll.
Now how many rolls can you get for $2500? 100-250 rolls. It could take hundreds of thousands to millions of color swaps before you even met the break even price of the XL.
It gets even wackier when you compare it to multiple machines, cheaper machines. If printing similar things there is no scenario where the XL comes out ahead.
Do you mind if I use your comments in a video. I am investigating filament waste on a Bambu X1C and this calculation is roughly what I have determined as well.
@@ashleys3dprintshop Go for it! 🙂
XL is a cool machine if you need a lot of multi-color prints in minimal time. For the occasional multicolor print, or prints with more than 5 colors... The $3k premium over the P1S can buy more AMSes and about 100 kg of filament.
@@ericolofsson the XL nozzles leak if using 0.6 or bigger, and the printer is not enclosed so your material selection is still limited, unless you add more $ for enclosure.
4 Color benchy. 2.5hrs with xl. 18hrs with the x1c 😂
design issue
Which is more reliable?
They're both great, but any machine is bound to have something fail. So far, the XL has been easier to clear out jams. When filament breaks in the AMS tube, it can be a real pain to get in there and clear it out. Also the Bambu bowden tubes will wear down if you put abrasive filament in there (glitter/glow in the dark) -- the filament really rubs inside the tube with all the harsh bends.
I don't understand why Prusa makes the XL prime - OFF the build plate, it just oozes a strand of filament off the bed, every time I see that I cringe and imagine some kind of gcode corruption, but no, it's by design. wtf? thoes are cold solid filament, and if the bed gets low enough - could flip over onto the build plate. wtf? couldn't they just have made a build plate big enough or had it prime ON the build plate like every other pirnter?
The build plate magnets are pretty strong, I can't see it causing the build plate to lift from the small amount of contact surface on this unheated area.
It does make removing the prime line easy, you have a 'handle' to grab. I don't know if that is the intended purpose.
being a mk3s owner, prusa lost his marbles, XL needs to be 2K max with all 5 tools included. Otherwise it's not competitive and they will go out of business without the eu grands they are getting
Pricing out a prusa, built, with all 5 heads.... You can have a small fleet of x1c with ams... Waste vs time savings
and spying
XL is a PIA to consistently print large multi filament object.
Repeat this with 8 colors 😊
What prints color faster? The five p1ps with ams units you can buy for the same price as 1 xl wirh 5 print heads. 😂😂😂
I don’t have a prusa XL and it’s not for the cost, I found prusa an arrogant company to deal with when you get issues out of the box so I stay away from them as a whole and the only prusa printer I own is sat in the corner as a reminder not to trust the hype.
I didn’t trust the hype over Bambu lab either and was a slow adopter and though not perfect they are the closest I have found to what has been said in “review” videos than most.
The big advantage on a multi tool head is handling very different materials in a single print such as tpu and abs. Other than that multi tool head can also be a limiting factor and maintenance costs are considerably higher than single extruder units with a multi material system, oh can you print me a 6 colour object on an XL without manually pausing the printer.
Unless you have a specific reason then the XL is a waste of money.
As far as poop producing printers I seriously don’t like the waste filament issue and the industry must take responsibility for an issue that is going to grow with creality, anycubic, phrozen and most likely every other manufacturer out there joining the Bambu lab train.
I think the first company that produces a machine that is economically viable to turn poop into new filaments should be given a noble prize for saving the planet from 3d printer waste from printing dragons and little trinkets.
Who are they marketing this for?! Def not the consumer. Not many people can afford to spend $6k on a 3d printer. Even if I had the money to spend on this, there's no way I would, ever! I would rather waste the filament using a x1c vs spending this much on a hobby printer. They be crazy! Nice review though
There are people who can afford it, but it's definitely not a "must have" for the average consumer. Thanks for watching!
Its a tool changer so probably to people, probably mostly company's that wants multi material printing. Only option today are a few idex models or some small open source projects. To pay someone to manually build a voron with tool changer would easily exceed the price for a XL
My Bambu is still faster, and requires less power and maintenance. Period
NO CARDBOARD SPOOLS IN AMS THEY WILL GET CHEWED UP BA,BU SAYS DONT DO IT
True, it's a risk.
This video is a paid for prusa advertisement.
No mention at all of the myriad problems the XL is having.
It is absolutely not worth it, for half this money you could buy a p1s and a whole filament recycling station that would allow you to make any colour filament you like from pellets or old material.
🤣 I wish it was sponsored, but sadly, it is not. While the first wave of XL's off the line did have some issues, this machine is "2nd generation" and was delivered after all the pre-orders had been shipped. There's been a number of firmware & Prusaslicer upgrades since launch day.
Speed? Unless xl is 4 times as fast, it is slower cause you can have 4 P1 machines and change for same price. Oh and you will have peace of mind if one goes down. I am a Prusa user and fan, but it is what it is.
Bambu lab printers have had more problems than the XL. The XL's problems are all software related and are all ironed out. Bambu lab keeps having to go back to the drawing board to revise their components. They're on like version 9 of their AP/TH board.
@@LilApe Interesting. Currently on second board on my Prusa Mini.
@@joehimes9898 prusa mini yes which is nothing to do with prusa XL..
Prusa has premium price tag and not premium built quality and features.
The components in the XL are literally higher build quality than anything found in bambu lab printers.The fans, PSU, electronics, etc in the XL are all name brand, higher build quality and built to last. Just look at the rails. Bambu uses cheap carbon rods that are prone to scratching an wearing down. Bambu literally lists them as a consumable component. Prusa uses rails sourced from a high quality manufacture. It's the whole reason why there were delays in the XL launch.
How so, please elaborate?
For build they use nema motors, e3d hotends, gates belts, in house electronic boards, delta power supplies, noctua fans, THK linear rails/bearings instead of rods (bambus wear out..) then all the tool changing parts are hefty machined aluminium metal parts.
In terms of features:
It has 5 TOOLHEADS, 360mm build volume and is significantly faster for multi color prints (up to 5 colors), and wastes significantly less filament. It's like you didn't even watch the video..
Another fantastic video. Thanks for helping clarify the practical differences between these printers!