but in all honesty i think you were far too generous on how much we spend on bossing mules, 5b is chump change. If i were you i'd maybe change my line of argumenting into WHEN in someones account progression they should make a bossing mule, and how they should do so in the most efficient manner possible. most people will watch the first 3min of your vid and misunderstand your arguments, bossing mules are a must imo but the timing is the issue, i've seen so many ppl with like 3+ CPB mules and main can't even solo lomein lololol
I know haha, but so many people in my last video missed my points because they said I was overestimating by way too much and only focused on how god they were at the the game. Some people have insane expectations for what their boss mules are doing vs reality and what newer players are able to achieve. Figured I would take the most conservative approach. You hit the nail right on the head. That’s the final video I have planned on this topic. I wanted to go over when to start investing heavily into mules and good initial milestones for players in the early game or entering the mid game. Thought it would be fun to make my terrible graph though
I’m not tryna fight vhilla for 20 minutes. I’m gonna invest that meso, so I don’t have to sit through long ass fights, I’m not pushing bm anytime soon, so no need to condition myself.
I think making a bunch of lomien mules is a waste of time unless your main is already well established thats true but saying cra or akechi mules hinder your mains progress is just plain wrong. The amounts of nodes, time and meso needed to get a char ready for cra/hmag is almost non existent.
Do the same analysis for a CRA or Akechi mule. It’s really no different. What goes into it what are the trade offs and what comes out. The cost to fund may be lower but the reward is lower as well. The time to turn a profit ends up still taking a while it’s just on a smaller scale.
for early progression players this definitely makes sense in terms of focusing on main > boss mules. however for the graph, you should measure *rates* instead of total quantity of meso. a bossing mule gives you rates of 1.4b per 30 mins, farming on your main gives you 0.2b per 30 mins. you have to farm 7 times as long on your main to get the same meso income as a bossing mule. there are other things to consider like nodes/droplets/fams vs flames/cubes (farming vs boss mules respectively), but overall setting up boss mules is way more efficient in giving you the resource that is more impactful than any other: meso. for newer players I would give the advice of not worrying about bossing mules if you want to play more casually, but if you want to progress seriously, you should start working on them asap. like always just depends on how you wanna play the game, no right or wrong answer
Optimal is not always fun or right for your play style and schedule. A little horizontal progression for me, making boss mules is fine so i can get easier meso income. My main is full arcanes and 37k stat, maxed nodes, and 5k legion, Which is a good spot to just do dailies and boss on mules or work on legion. Maplers now a days want things too fast but if you play long enough all your gains and investments will pay off. All the extra inventory like cubes and nodes gotta go somewhere. Also for sure get your main up to a goo spot and for the love of god work on links and legion. I see too many seasonals complain about damage and exp rates and not even have the basic links done to at least lv 2 yet.
I think the best way to creating bossing mules is using burning event and farming the rest of the time. It greatly reduces the mesos and time you have to sink into a bossing mule and is a nice break from your normal mains that can get stale. I made a new main and I’m clearing Nlomien with barely 8b invested and the number is alittle higher because I’m only 3k legion and it’s my new main but realistically I could have solod Lomien when I only had like 5b invested
On the subject of links/legion, I keep coming across suggestions that I make it to 200 on main so I can do bosses/river/mt/park every day before swapping to whatever link/legion I'm working on. Is that advice still applicable today? Also thanks for the great ms paint skills.
It is still pretty much the same. Lvl 200 is a requirement for legion to unlock as well as having 500 total level across your characters. 1-200 is kind of the tutorial. However, you are just starting the game and getting a feel for various characters. I would recommend trying some out that look fun to see if you like them. The great thing about this game is that no matter what character you level it helps your overall account, so you never need to feel like your time is wasted on something. If you need help picking a class I made a choosing a hyper burn class video that may help you think about how you enjoy playing the game. This can help you narrow down a few characters then do a bit more of a deep dive on other creators videos for ones you like! Edit: as an extra note if you get to lvl 101 you can participate in the event which has tons of benefits that will really help in your early account progression like account wide crit rate, normal monster damage and exp buffs
How about event bossmules like Khali and burning chars that dont really require as much time and mesos because the rewards alone could set them up pretty nice
Go for it! I don’t think it changes the analysis too much. The cost in terms of mesos and time is extremely conservative even for event characters. But, you can change all the numbers around based on what you think it takes. The only thing it really changes is offsets some of the downsides like using as many nodes, time to do dailies, etc. Events are without a doubt the best times to make new characters. I also think it’s fun to try new classes, so I would recommend people play them and if they are enjoying it push it into bossing. I just don’t think people should be going out of their way to make mules in the early game thinking it’s efficient when many never end up benefitting from it because they don’t play long enough.
My assumption is that you are not at a point in the game where you should be investing into other characters if you don’t even have meso/drop gear yet. There are a bunch of different ways to look at it. I think I do a better job of illustrating my point in the other video. If you don’t have a long term mindset, boss mules may not be the best option. You could be farther progressed on your main rather than diverting attention.
I don't think anyone is suggesting for players to make boss mules if they have never solo cleared luwill/lomien outside of 250 hyper burn. The point is that they are very profitable long term after a certain point of progression on your main.
That’s just not true. Many people recommend this, and many people do this. Tons of videos come out detailing the great benefits of mules, what mules to make, the profit of mules, but never talk about the tangible trade offs for many players. Also, just read the comments on my videos, especially the last one if you need more proof. I agree with your second point. I say it pretty much word for word.
You're definitely one of the smarter maplers, but you've got a lot of things incomplete/deceptive here. And pardon the large post. 1) When you're grinding your main, you're getting exp and progressing levels, but at the early game you only have one choice. You can either grind meso, or drop. Early game requires Around 1.5b per equip to get a single meso OR drop accessory. If you refuse to do boss mules, then you go meso. If not, then drop is king. But no new player is going to have the funding or time to build up a badass meso drop accessory setup. So their gains will be very, very minimal as the investment will not only cost them lots of meso to build accessories, but also the very same meso that could've been use to upgrade your main. So you basically undid your own logic of funding a boss mule because that money has to be built into funding single-use meso/drop accessories which could've just been poured into a boss mule. 2) You MS paint graph is very deceptive as nothing is to scale. If you saw a true to scale graph of progression, you'd find that the pure grind method is not close to what you depicted and there would be far greater visual disparity between progression types. 3) You're assuming this is only a building of a single boss mule. Most people should be building 2 or 3 bossers, not a single one. And with 1.4b per bosser, you're looking at 4.2-5.6b in just a couple hours, which is far, far more progression in the given time than what a single WAP will do for your main. At that rate, you could pay off a boss mule in just two weeks, which is basically nothing. 4) You're assuming people roll for legendary potentials (per your previous video) and that's a terrible idea. As an experiment I did for Savior, my blaster from hyper burning solos all the way (comfortably) through easy will and the only equips that are legendary are the weapon and secondary. All else is 12-15% Stat unique and I do NOT have any gollux gear. Granted I'm just shy of 9k legion so theres some huge damage there. It is a complete waste of meso to hit legendary and not roll for 24-30% stat, as each potential is supposed to basically double the stat gain of the previous to stay cost efficient. Eg: Rare(3%) -> Epic(6%) -> Unique(12-15%) -> Legendary ( 24-30%). Its far, far more cost effective to just hit 15% unique than roll for legendary when most people just stop at 18-21%. Total waste of meso that could've gotten another 15% unique. Boss mules can be built for cheaper than what you have shown. Plus with all of the free cubes and flames you get from mules, you can save a lot of meso on purely cubing to unique as well. Legendary is a total waste of meso. 5) Your "Cost of opportunity" is such an important concept that most people never think of. So I agree strongly with that, but that cannot be shown on any sort of graph considering its purely hypothetical. Gains ASAP can translate to huge wins in the long term, but it can also lead down to a road of nothing due to the RNG of this game. And this also works as a double edged sword to your own idea. With this logic, I can build up 20b in only a couple hours of heavy bossing once every two weeks for an emergency prep for a SF event due to the time efficiency of bossing, which you can't do with just a main grinder. And considering those events are the biggest progression events in the game, generally speaking, the fact you can abuse the volatility of boss mules and squeeze out massive progression in no time flat, and immediately get a large discount on said event is unbeatable. For early game, its better to grind your main casually with dailies, but work on a couple boss mules. You can't build meso/drop gear early on without funding, so you still dont get squat without bossing on alts. You wont have the damage to one-shot maps, let alone afford to have meso/drop gear. As a long time player and someone who knows this stuff inside and out, I'm telling you you've got the wrong idea. Its great to progress your main, but it comes at a steep cost when you could be building boss mules to progress faster. The moral of the story for Maplestory's progression is that you need to balance out main progression vs alt progression. Alt progression (legion/link/boss mules) is overall far more potent on its own that just your main. And your main is almost completely at the mercy of how well you can fund it, as you can't grind worth a damn without the funding to keep up on its damage and upgrading to meso/drop gear without dropping kill rates.
Great video. One thing I think you should look at is maybe 210 as a total of real players rather than the global completion rate. Ex 27% of players reach 210 = they will continue to play the game and 6% solo lotus /27% is like 24% of all "real " players. I think the entire achievement system encompasses way too many turbo casuals with 7 children to feed who can only do dailies for 5 minutes a day, so it shouldn't be taken at face value.
I’ve pretty much done the same on a shorter timeframe. I don’t regret it though because I had fun trying out different characters! No need to play for efficiency if you are enjoying the journey
This summer, i spent about a month playing only one character instead of leveling up the new hyper burning or khali or any other bossing mules. went from 40 or 50 sac to hotel arcus + 4/5 21 star arcane gear and near full set 22 otherwise. Every summer before this, I'd get distracted and try different classes and try to bring *all* my characters up a notch *every* month. I will say that it took a lot of discipline to do this though, I treated the game like a job and grinded while i watched movies, grinded while I talked to friends. I think trying different class is what I enjoy the most about this game, but if you want to ever reach end game, you *have* to have focus, even if its purely for exp purposes. Of course, this is assuming you're playing approx 2-3 hrs a day. You only have 10hrs of wealth coupons a week anyways. After you use those up, grinding becomes very inefficient. I had saved up over a dozen thousand legion coins to sustain my wealth coupon purchases given my rather weak legion raid power. I do think that every one should experience three or four classes from this diverse game before they start gunning for end game. I have friends who don't know Ark's burst rotation or that it has a bind and try to bind for me when I'm carrying them a boss. Knowing the complexity of different classes gives you more appreciation for your own class' capabilities and will improve you as a player.
Not that I expected everyone to, but I’m learning some people will just never acknowledge a trade off to boss mules. I try my best to get back to everyone and appreciate when people provide well thought out criticism, but I’m not going to address critical comments anymore unless they show understanding of the video
Gotta agree with the last section. The amount of boss mule videos out there when I’m just trying to look for guides on fit my specific job 😂. Too many people normalizing what’s essentially a chore.
For reg server, all you need to do is make Paladin + Ult ring build. The ring only costs 300m, and maybe 500-1b for nodes to max out only your main burst skill (Grand cross). There's no need to max out trios since you're just bursting. This will go very far and crush even bosses like cpap/akechi and pno. It also allows for min clear nlomien even if your paladin has less than 10k stats. It's so bonkers, no one is doing it imo. but that's fine, it'll keep the ult ring prices low.
Who tells players to make boss mules as early as possible? Every bit of advice I've gotten/given on this is to at least wait until you're clearing ctene. Like your part about fams, someone still getting fam cards almost 100% shouldn't be making a boss mule unless they're just bored.
This is probably a good point for regular server where these cost $. I play reboot and it’s not really worth mentioning for that. A very minimal benefit
Every week you can sell 180 boss crystals if you aren't using them all that is wasted meso you aren't gaining. Doesn't matter if it weekly or daily bosses. The more weekly bosses you can clear the better so a little bit of gear investment to get a character into CRA or Normal lomien boss mules can generate you alot of meso. Of course you shouldn't neglect your main but sometimes increase your meso income isn't as simple as pumping your main.
My entire video was an in depth analysis of the trade off when you do that and why this is bad for many players… This exists any time you invest time/resources into something that doesn’t immediately progress your main.
Opportunity cost doesn't apply to some players because many would just not play at all because they find farming on main very boring. So boss mule is a way for some people to make meso while having fun...
The way I see it, you only need like 700bil mesos before all your gear is 22* and 3L. Since I get 25bil a week just by training, boss mules with the delayed profit doesn't seem worth it to me.
I think Nexon should look into why people are stopping to play LOA (Lost Ark). The mundane repeatable everyday activities and an idea that you have to have multiple characters to progress efficiently or even keep up with the content is not the way to go IMO.
@@negativeiq6718 That's what i'm saying... LOA is being killed by that kind of gameplay, which (the gameplay) might affect Maplestory in longterm as well.
@@tomasjablonskis6053 as long as MapleStory doesn't get some amount of decent competition in Korea, it won't affect the game any time soon. These multi character systems have existed for ages and people still dish out tens of thousands in Korea. On a side note, it's kind of ironic that Lost ark was supposed to be that competition, and yet people are migrating back to MapleStory from Lost ark.
That’s just not true. I know what I’m saying seems intuitive, but there are tons of people that are frothing at the mouth to disagree with this. Several people saying they recommend it as early and often as possible. Many people make mules way before they should, and I’m not surprised by all the content that talks about mules: tier lists, the best mules, you should make these mules, etc. I think it’s an interesting topic to look at the trade offs, and no one really talks about it this way.
First of all if it takes you an hour to do all the bosses up to lomien it is not a lomien boss mule, you should clear everything in less than 30 min. Second, boss mules trickles down cubes and flames to other boss mules or your main. If you’re just starting to fund boss mules you should get them to everything below lomien which cost like 2b if you just spend off event and that will get you around 1b and you don’t even need to get to 220 for that. Every assumption or “facts” you stated in this video are inherently inaccurate or straight out false.
😂 I can never get it right. I thought I dispelled the god tier gamers with an ultra conservative approach, but no matter what I say it’s all wrong because you are an idiot Edit: do the analysis on your own with the numbers you say. Also, watch the whole video please
This is a shitty argument. All you're doing is delaying your ability to generate mesos the most effective way in order to obtain some power in the short term, but you completely gimp yourself in the long term because you aren't making anything from mules per week. If you convert boss mules to an hourly rate, it's over 2.5B an hour. If you have 5 lomien mules like I do you get over 6B a week in like 2 hours versus 6B a week in 15 hrs of farming assuming your extremely generous rate of 400m an hour, which frankly 95% of players don't get. There is no argument where farming mesos on a main is better than making mules, because your returns ALWAYS outweigh your investment into these mules, so the earlier you actually invest in them, the earlier you will overtake your investment, and it's only compounds from there by making more and more boss mules until you sell the max amount of boss crystals per week. You also fail to take into consideration the fact that after doing mules you can just go farm on your main as well. If you play 15 hrs a week, you spend 2 hrs doing mules and then 13 hrs farming for the week, you're now making 5B from 5 mules and 5.2b from farming, which is almost double what you'd get if you just farmed for 15 hours. Boss mules are even better if you have less time to grind per week, which means for the average player boss mules are 3 or even 4 times more efficient to spend mesos on. Someone with 10B of capital investing all of that into mules would save a ton of time earning that 10B back as opposed to having to farm it from monsters, and mains very quickly reach a point where 10B is barely noticeable in terms of power, especially when going beyond 17 stars on gear.
The argument is that there is a delay in progression. If you know you will play for a long time, make boss mules. If not, you can get further into the game by not doing this. The video is probably not applicable to you.
@@JamoosinYT Yeah you are right it's a delay in progression, but i think the pros outweigh the cons personally. Grinding monsters for meso early on is extremely slow so being able to get mules and practice bosses is a net gain in terms of time and profit.
@@Ohhsoodead the big thing I think about is when I was a new player I definitely made boss mules early which delayed my progress to things like lucid/will which are large time gates. In the long run I’m making much more mesos, but for new players they may drop the game before then. It’s all about preference and what you enjoy at the end of the day
I'm confused, are you just making rage bait because it has high engagement or are you trying spread misinformation to ignorant players? Because this isn't an informative video you made an argument against lomien mules but then you tried to twist it into an argument against boss mules as a whole. Not making boss mules is fine, but intentionally spreading misinformation is bad, be better.
Start with what part you think is misinformation. You missed the point of the video. Boss mules of any type come with a real trade off. The end of the video showcases that many players would never even reach thie point in the game where these are time efficient. I do not think they are inherently bad… in fact for the 2nd time I’ve explicitly said that in the long term they are time efficient. Be better.
@@JamoosinYT I'm not going to let myself get bogged down picking apart your false premises when your previous video had more than enough feedback, yet your response was to double down, so I won't waste my time repeating what others have said. While ragebait is good for engagement, it's bad for your reputation.
@@MapleFan214 saying it’s ragebait and misinformation is just a bad take. Stop fixating on the numbers, the numbers can be changed and the point still exists. I say as much in both videos. Talk about the overall message, and if you disagree with the analysis utilize your own numbers and come up with a conclusion. Don’t just set unrealistic expectations against an already insanely conservative take on boss mules and say the video is bad. It just showcases you didn’t understand it, didn’t watch it or want to argue in bad faith. I made this video much more conservative, toned down my language and focused on the part I see as the issue to clarify my position. The only people that are mad just can’t engage in healthy discussion or talk about conflicting views
@@JamoosinYT You accuse me of fixating on numbers despite me not mentioning any numbers at all? then claim i'm arguing in bad faith? If you wanted healthy discussion you wouldn't have made two videos dependant on a false premise.
@@MapleFan214 no you referenced all the feedback… the feedback had issues with the numbers or various tiny points, but ignored the crux of the video. Since you won’t tell me what you have a problem with, and say the assumptions/“facts” are misinformation. Those assumptions were made to create a scenario to look at. They are not fundamentally wrong or misleading in any way. If you disagree, you can change the scenario and the numbers around all you want (the criticism people had), but it doesn’t change that a trade off exists. You can argue that the trade off (stalled progression) is less than what I said, but I took my criticisms strongest points (that were realistic because many were absolutely not) instead of what I used as an example in that video and incorporated it into this one. Maybe you have some big brained argument that I just can’t fathom, but until you tell me what it is… all I can do is speculate. I speculate that you are an idiot. Actually I’m not really speculating because I have a whole conversation of evidence to support my claim.
![[Maplestory Reboot] 15k Marksman Boss Mule | Low Nodes | ~1.2b Mesos in ~30min](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/knQhnr0UHU8/mqdefault.jpg)
rofl ppl actually need to spend 5b on a bossing mule? i spend 500M to clear up to ctene, 500M and 50 nodestones #getgud
😂
but in all honesty i think you were far too generous on how much we spend on bossing mules, 5b is chump change.
If i were you i'd maybe change my line of argumenting into WHEN in someones account progression they should make a bossing mule, and how they should do so in the most efficient manner possible. most people will watch the first 3min of your vid and misunderstand your arguments, bossing mules are a must imo but the timing is the issue, i've seen so many ppl with like 3+ CPB mules and main can't even solo lomein lololol
I know haha, but so many people in my last video missed my points because they said I was overestimating by way too much and only focused on how god they were at the the game. Some people have insane expectations for what their boss mules are doing vs reality and what newer players are able to achieve. Figured I would take the most conservative approach.
You hit the nail right on the head. That’s the final video I have planned on this topic. I wanted to go over when to start investing heavily into mules and good initial milestones for players in the early game or entering the mid game.
Thought it would be fun to make my terrible graph though
I’m not tryna fight vhilla for 20 minutes. I’m gonna invest that meso, so I don’t have to sit through long ass fights, I’m not pushing bm anytime soon, so no need to condition myself.
Apologies for my comment on your previous video, these are very clear cut points and well presented, you have my sub
I think making a bunch of lomien mules is a waste of time unless your main is already well established thats true but saying cra or akechi mules hinder your mains progress is just plain wrong. The amounts of nodes, time and meso needed to get a char ready for cra/hmag is almost non existent.
Do the same analysis for a CRA or Akechi mule. It’s really no different. What goes into it what are the trade offs and what comes out. The cost to fund may be lower but the reward is lower as well. The time to turn a profit ends up still taking a while it’s just on a smaller scale.
for early progression players this definitely makes sense in terms of focusing on main > boss mules. however for the graph, you should measure *rates* instead of total quantity of meso. a bossing mule gives you rates of 1.4b per 30 mins, farming on your main gives you 0.2b per 30 mins. you have to farm 7 times as long on your main to get the same meso income as a bossing mule. there are other things to consider like nodes/droplets/fams vs flames/cubes (farming vs boss mules respectively), but overall setting up boss mules is way more efficient in giving you the resource that is more impactful than any other: meso. for newer players I would give the advice of not worrying about bossing mules if you want to play more casually, but if you want to progress seriously, you should start working on them asap. like always just depends on how you wanna play the game, no right or wrong answer
Optimal is not always fun or right for your play style and schedule. A little horizontal progression for me, making boss mules is fine so i can get easier meso income. My main is full arcanes and 37k stat, maxed nodes, and 5k legion, Which is a good spot to just do dailies and boss on mules or work on legion.
Maplers now a days want things too fast but if you play long enough all your gains and investments will pay off. All the extra inventory like cubes and nodes gotta go somewhere.
Also for sure get your main up to a goo spot and for the love of god work on links and legion. I see too many seasonals complain about damage and exp rates and not even have the basic links done to at least lv 2 yet.
I think the best way to creating bossing mules is using burning event and farming the rest of the time. It greatly reduces the mesos and time you have to sink into a bossing mule and is a nice break from your normal mains that can get stale. I made a new main and I’m clearing Nlomien with barely 8b invested and the number is alittle higher because I’m only 3k legion and it’s my new main but realistically I could have solod Lomien when I only had like 5b invested
I think your comment showcases my point quite well!
On the subject of links/legion, I keep coming across suggestions that I make it to 200 on main so I can do bosses/river/mt/park every day before swapping to whatever link/legion I'm working on. Is that advice still applicable today? Also thanks for the great ms paint skills.
It is still pretty much the same. Lvl 200 is a requirement for legion to unlock as well as having 500 total level across your characters. 1-200 is kind of the tutorial. However, you are just starting the game and getting a feel for various characters.
I would recommend trying some out that look fun to see if you like them. The great thing about this game is that no matter what character you level it helps your overall account, so you never need to feel like your time is wasted on something.
If you need help picking a class I made a choosing a hyper burn class video that may help you think about how you enjoy playing the game. This can help you narrow down a few characters then do a bit more of a deep dive on other creators videos for ones you like!
Edit: as an extra note if you get to lvl 101 you can participate in the event which has tons of benefits that will really help in your early account progression like account wide crit rate, normal monster damage and exp buffs
How about event bossmules like Khali and burning chars that dont really require as much time and mesos because the rewards alone could set them up pretty nice
Go for it! I don’t think it changes the analysis too much. The cost in terms of mesos and time is extremely conservative even for event characters. But, you can change all the numbers around based on what you think it takes. The only thing it really changes is offsets some of the downsides like using as many nodes, time to do dailies, etc.
Events are without a doubt the best times to make new characters. I also think it’s fun to try new classes, so I would recommend people play them and if they are enjoying it push it into bossing.
I just don’t think people should be going out of their way to make mules in the early game thinking it’s efficient when many never end up benefitting from it because they don’t play long enough.
Don''t you need to compare the cost of funding a boss mule vs the cost of mesodrop gear in order to be able to make that 400m an hour plus nodes?
My assumption is that you are not at a point in the game where you should be investing into other characters if you don’t even have meso/drop gear yet.
There are a bunch of different ways to look at it. I think I do a better job of illustrating my point in the other video. If you don’t have a long term mindset, boss mules may not be the best option. You could be farther progressed on your main rather than diverting attention.
I don't think anyone is suggesting for players to make boss mules if they have never solo cleared luwill/lomien outside of 250 hyper burn. The point is that they are very profitable long term after a certain point of progression on your main.
That’s just not true. Many people recommend this, and many people do this. Tons of videos come out detailing the great benefits of mules, what mules to make, the profit of mules, but never talk about the tangible trade offs for many players. Also, just read the comments on my videos, especially the last one if you need more proof.
I agree with your second point. I say it pretty much word for word.
You're definitely one of the smarter maplers, but you've got a lot of things incomplete/deceptive here. And pardon the large post.
1) When you're grinding your main, you're getting exp and progressing levels, but at the early game you only have one choice. You can either grind meso, or drop. Early game requires Around 1.5b per equip to get a single meso OR drop accessory. If you refuse to do boss mules, then you go meso. If not, then drop is king. But no new player is going to have the funding or time to build up a badass meso drop accessory setup. So their gains will be very, very minimal as the investment will not only cost them lots of meso to build accessories, but also the very same meso that could've been use to upgrade your main. So you basically undid your own logic of funding a boss mule because that money has to be built into funding single-use meso/drop accessories which could've just been poured into a boss mule.
2) You MS paint graph is very deceptive as nothing is to scale. If you saw a true to scale graph of progression, you'd find that the pure grind method is not close to what you depicted and there would be far greater visual disparity between progression types.
3) You're assuming this is only a building of a single boss mule. Most people should be building 2 or 3 bossers, not a single one. And with 1.4b per bosser, you're looking at 4.2-5.6b in just a couple hours, which is far, far more progression in the given time than what a single WAP will do for your main. At that rate, you could pay off a boss mule in just two weeks, which is basically nothing.
4) You're assuming people roll for legendary potentials (per your previous video) and that's a terrible idea. As an experiment I did for Savior, my blaster from hyper burning solos all the way (comfortably) through easy will and the only equips that are legendary are the weapon and secondary. All else is 12-15% Stat unique and I do NOT have any gollux gear. Granted I'm just shy of 9k legion so theres some huge damage there. It is a complete waste of meso to hit legendary and not roll for 24-30% stat, as each potential is supposed to basically double the stat gain of the previous to stay cost efficient. Eg: Rare(3%) -> Epic(6%) -> Unique(12-15%) -> Legendary ( 24-30%). Its far, far more cost effective to just hit 15% unique than roll for legendary when most people just stop at 18-21%. Total waste of meso that could've gotten another 15% unique. Boss mules can be built for cheaper than what you have shown. Plus with all of the free cubes and flames you get from mules, you can save a lot of meso on purely cubing to unique as well. Legendary is a total waste of meso.
5) Your "Cost of opportunity" is such an important concept that most people never think of. So I agree strongly with that, but that cannot be shown on any sort of graph considering its purely hypothetical. Gains ASAP can translate to huge wins in the long term, but it can also lead down to a road of nothing due to the RNG of this game. And this also works as a double edged sword to your own idea. With this logic, I can build up 20b in only a couple hours of heavy bossing once every two weeks for an emergency prep for a SF event due to the time efficiency of bossing, which you can't do with just a main grinder. And considering those events are the biggest progression events in the game, generally speaking, the fact you can abuse the volatility of boss mules and squeeze out massive progression in no time flat, and immediately get a large discount on said event is unbeatable.
For early game, its better to grind your main casually with dailies, but work on a couple boss mules. You can't build meso/drop gear early on without funding, so you still dont get squat without bossing on alts. You wont have the damage to one-shot maps, let alone afford to have meso/drop gear. As a long time player and someone who knows this stuff inside and out, I'm telling you you've got the wrong idea. Its great to progress your main, but it comes at a steep cost when you could be building boss mules to progress faster.
The moral of the story for Maplestory's progression is that you need to balance out main progression vs alt progression. Alt progression (legion/link/boss mules) is overall far more potent on its own that just your main. And your main is almost completely at the mercy of how well you can fund it, as you can't grind worth a damn without the funding to keep up on its damage and upgrading to meso/drop gear without dropping kill rates.
Great video. One thing I think you should look at is maybe 210 as a total of real players rather than the global completion rate. Ex 27% of players reach 210 = they will continue to play the game and 6% solo lotus /27% is like 24% of all "real " players. I think the entire achievement system encompasses way too many turbo casuals with 7 children to feed who can only do dailies for 5 minutes a day, so it shouldn't be taken at face value.
I think that makes sense. I plan on making a video on when to create boss mules. I might take this approach instead when talking about it.
Thank you!
I played three years on boss mules , if i spent it all on one char it would have been lvl 270+
Its hard to decide what char to main in the game
I’ve pretty much done the same on a shorter timeframe. I don’t regret it though because I had fun trying out different characters! No need to play for efficiency if you are enjoying the journey
This summer, i spent about a month playing only one character instead of leveling up the new hyper burning or khali or any other bossing mules. went from 40 or 50 sac to hotel arcus + 4/5 21 star arcane gear and near full set 22 otherwise.
Every summer before this, I'd get distracted and try different classes and try to bring *all* my characters up a notch *every* month.
I will say that it took a lot of discipline to do this though, I treated the game like a job and grinded while i watched movies, grinded while I talked to friends. I think trying different class is what I enjoy the most about this game, but if you want to ever reach end game, you *have* to have focus, even if its purely for exp purposes.
Of course, this is assuming you're playing approx 2-3 hrs a day. You only have 10hrs of wealth coupons a week anyways. After you use those up, grinding becomes very inefficient. I had saved up over a dozen thousand legion coins to sustain my wealth coupon purchases given my rather weak legion raid power.
I do think that every one should experience three or four classes from this diverse game before they start gunning for end game. I have friends who don't know Ark's burst rotation or that it has a bind and try to bind for me when I'm carrying them a boss. Knowing the complexity of different classes gives you more appreciation for your own class' capabilities and will improve you as a player.
@@ashrafulalam3662 totally agree 💯
Not that I expected everyone to, but I’m learning some people will just never acknowledge a trade off to boss mules. I try my best to get back to everyone and appreciate when people provide well thought out criticism, but I’m not going to address critical comments anymore unless they show understanding of the video
Gotta agree with the last section. The amount of boss mule videos out there when I’m just trying to look for guides on fit my specific job 😂.
Too many people normalizing what’s essentially a chore.
For reg server, all you need to do is make Paladin + Ult ring build. The ring only costs 300m, and maybe 500-1b for nodes to max out only your main burst skill (Grand cross). There's no need to max out trios since you're just bursting. This will go very far and crush even bosses like cpap/akechi and pno. It also allows for min clear nlomien even if your paladin has less than 10k stats. It's so bonkers, no one is doing it imo. but that's fine, it'll keep the ult ring prices low.
the initial time cost of starting boss mules is ALOT of time.. but after they r all eatablished its smooth sailing
100% agree
Who tells players to make boss mules as early as possible? Every bit of advice I've gotten/given on this is to at least wait until you're clearing ctene.
Like your part about fams, someone still getting fam cards almost 100% shouldn't be making a boss mule unless they're just bored.
I’ve never heard someone say get them as late as ctene and heard it multiple times for people who can’t even clear luwill
You forgot the exp coupons, flames and cubes.
This is probably a good point for regular server where these cost $. I play reboot and it’s not really worth mentioning for that. A very minimal benefit
Every week you can sell 180 boss crystals if you aren't using them all that is wasted meso you aren't gaining. Doesn't matter if it weekly or daily bosses. The more weekly bosses you can clear the better so a little bit of gear investment to get a character into CRA or Normal lomien boss mules can generate you alot of meso. Of course you shouldn't neglect your main but sometimes increase your meso income isn't as simple as pumping your main.
My entire video was an in depth analysis of the trade off when you do that and why this is bad for many players… This exists any time you invest time/resources into something that doesn’t immediately progress your main.
Opportunity cost doesn't apply to some players because many would just not play at all because they find farming on main very boring. So boss mule is a way for some people to make meso while having fun...
Watch the last 30 sec please
@@JamoosinYT ah ok you addressed this at the end but I had already typed my comment lol
The way I see it, you only need like 700bil mesos before all your gear is 22* and 3L.
Since I get 25bil a week just by training,
boss mules with the delayed profit doesn't seem worth it to me.
Incredible. Good for you. If only I could exhibit such diligence in my training
I just turned my two old mains into boss mules
I think Nexon should look into why people are stopping to play LOA (Lost Ark). The mundane repeatable everyday activities and an idea that you have to have multiple characters to progress efficiently or even keep up with the content is not the way to go IMO.
Lost arks not any better in that department either...
@@negativeiq6718 That's what i'm saying... LOA is being killed by that kind of gameplay, which (the gameplay) might affect Maplestory in longterm as well.
@@tomasjablonskis6053 as long as MapleStory doesn't get some amount of decent competition in Korea, it won't affect the game any time soon. These multi character systems have existed for ages and people still dish out tens of thousands in Korea. On a side note, it's kind of ironic that Lost ark was supposed to be that competition, and yet people are migrating back to MapleStory from Lost ark.
Nobody tells anyone to make boss mules first. Most advise the opposite.
That’s just not true. I know what I’m saying seems intuitive, but there are tons of people that are frothing at the mouth to disagree with this. Several people saying they recommend it as early and often as possible.
Many people make mules way before they should, and I’m not surprised by all the content that talks about mules: tier lists, the best mules, you should make these mules, etc.
I think it’s an interesting topic to look at the trade offs, and no one really talks about it this way.
First of all if it takes you an hour to do all the bosses up to lomien it is not a lomien boss mule, you should clear everything in less than 30 min.
Second, boss mules trickles down cubes and flames to other boss mules or your main.
If you’re just starting to fund boss mules you should get them to everything below lomien which cost like 2b if you just spend off event and that will get you around 1b and you don’t even need to get to 220 for that.
Every assumption or “facts” you stated in this video are inherently inaccurate or straight out false.
😂 I can never get it right. I thought I dispelled the god tier gamers with an ultra conservative approach, but no matter what I say it’s all wrong because you are an idiot
Edit: do the analysis on your own with the numbers you say. Also, watch the whole video please
I go with spending 2dollars/hr for my indo friend.
😂
I agree
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This is a shitty argument. All you're doing is delaying your ability to generate mesos the most effective way in order to obtain some power in the short term, but you completely gimp yourself in the long term because you aren't making anything from mules per week. If you convert boss mules to an hourly rate, it's over 2.5B an hour. If you have 5 lomien mules like I do you get over 6B a week in like 2 hours versus 6B a week in 15 hrs of farming assuming your extremely generous rate of 400m an hour, which frankly 95% of players don't get.
There is no argument where farming mesos on a main is better than making mules, because your returns ALWAYS outweigh your investment into these mules, so the earlier you actually invest in them, the earlier you will overtake your investment, and it's only compounds from there by making more and more boss mules until you sell the max amount of boss crystals per week. You also fail to take into consideration the fact that after doing mules you can just go farm on your main as well. If you play 15 hrs a week, you spend 2 hrs doing mules and then 13 hrs farming for the week, you're now making 5B from 5 mules and 5.2b from farming, which is almost double what you'd get if you just farmed for 15 hours. Boss mules are even better if you have less time to grind per week, which means for the average player boss mules are 3 or even 4 times more efficient to spend mesos on. Someone with 10B of capital investing all of that into mules would save a ton of time earning that 10B back as opposed to having to farm it from monsters, and mains very quickly reach a point where 10B is barely noticeable in terms of power, especially when going beyond 17 stars on gear.
The argument is that there is a delay in progression. If you know you will play for a long time, make boss mules. If not, you can get further into the game by not doing this.
The video is probably not applicable to you.
@@JamoosinYT Yeah you are right it's a delay in progression, but i think the pros outweigh the cons personally. Grinding monsters for meso early on is extremely slow so being able to get mules and practice bosses is a net gain in terms of time and profit.
@@Ohhsoodead the big thing I think about is when I was a new player I definitely made boss mules early which delayed my progress to things like lucid/will which are large time gates. In the long run I’m making much more mesos, but for new players they may drop the game before then. It’s all about preference and what you enjoy at the end of the day
I'm confused, are you just making rage bait because it has high engagement or are you trying spread misinformation to ignorant players? Because this isn't an informative video you made an argument against lomien mules but then you tried to twist it into an argument against boss mules as a whole.
Not making boss mules is fine, but intentionally spreading misinformation is bad, be better.
Start with what part you think is misinformation.
You missed the point of the video. Boss mules of any type come with a real trade off. The end of the video showcases that many players would never even reach thie point in the game where these are time efficient. I do not think they are inherently bad… in fact for the 2nd time I’ve explicitly said that in the long term they are time efficient.
Be better.
@@JamoosinYT I'm not going to let myself get bogged down picking apart your false premises when your previous video had more than enough feedback, yet your response was to double down, so I won't waste my time repeating what others have said.
While ragebait is good for engagement, it's bad for your reputation.
@@MapleFan214 saying it’s ragebait and misinformation is just a bad take.
Stop fixating on the numbers, the numbers can be changed and the point still exists. I say as much in both videos.
Talk about the overall message, and if you disagree with the analysis utilize your own numbers and come up with a conclusion. Don’t just set unrealistic expectations against an already insanely conservative take on boss mules and say the video is bad. It just showcases you didn’t understand it, didn’t watch it or want to argue in bad faith.
I made this video much more conservative, toned down my language and focused on the part I see as the issue to clarify my position. The only people that are mad just can’t engage in healthy discussion or talk about conflicting views
@@JamoosinYT You accuse me of fixating on numbers despite me not mentioning any numbers at all? then claim i'm arguing in bad faith? If you wanted healthy discussion you wouldn't have made two videos dependant on a false premise.
@@MapleFan214 no you referenced all the feedback… the feedback had issues with the numbers or various tiny points, but ignored the crux of the video.
Since you won’t tell me what you have a problem with, and say the assumptions/“facts” are misinformation. Those assumptions were made to create a scenario to look at. They are not fundamentally wrong or misleading in any way.
If you disagree, you can change the scenario and the numbers around all you want (the criticism people had), but it doesn’t change that a trade off exists.
You can argue that the trade off (stalled progression) is less than what I said, but I took my criticisms strongest points (that were realistic because many were absolutely not) instead of what I used as an example in that video and incorporated it into this one.
Maybe you have some big brained argument that I just can’t fathom, but until you tell me what it is… all I can do is speculate.
I speculate that you are an idiot. Actually I’m not really speculating because I have a whole conversation of evidence to support my claim.