Is Gatekeeping in Gaming Too Toxic? Classic World of Warcraft
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 бер 2024
- 🚨 Get THIS Guide to LEVEL FAST & Find EVERY RUNE: www.restedxp.com/ref/sarthe/
⚠️ Support Me & Gain access to Exclusive Videos, Early content by joining the Channel Memberships!
/ @sarthetv
👍 Come hang out: 👍
🎥 / sarthe 🎥
Sarthe Merch OUT NOW! streamlabs.com/sarthe/merch
📞 Join the Disc:
/ discord
💸 Donate/Support:
streamlabs.com/sarthe/tip
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16-Core - amzn.to/3JbDjED
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 - amzn.to/3l5SPtP
Motherboard: ASUS Prime X670E-Pro - amzn.to/3TcPkhH
RAM: [64GB] -amzn.to/3Fli3eG
Monitors: [1x Predator 27" 2560x1440 144hz] - amzn.to/3mMXjGc
[1x ASUS TUF Gaming 27" 3840x2160 144hz] - amzn.to/3LkmXwa
Power: [Corsair RM850x] - amzn.to/3ZGy1In
Keyboard: [Logitech PRO Keyboard] - amzn.to/3Jx3VS0
Mouse: [Logitech G600] - amzn.to/3FipGSR
Microphone: [Shure SM7B] - amzn.to/3yzmDSG
Headphones: [HyperX Cloud 2] - amzn.to/3LiiBp9
Footpedal: [Elgato Stream Deck] - amzn.to/3TcPkhH
Fans: [Lian Li UNI] - amzn.to/3mAXPqz
SSD: [SAMSUNG 8700 4TB] - amzn.to/3T98KE4
SSD2: [SAMSUNG 970 EVO 1TB] - amzn.to/3mCRc7a
Capture Card: [Elgato 4K60 MK.2] - amzn.to/3yy3GQh
Case: [Lian Li LI PC-O11] - amzn.to/3TcmKx0
Mixer: [GoXLR Mixer] - amzn.to/3ZI9a6O
[Stream Deck] - amzn.to/3ZFj89l
Lights: [Elgato Key Light X2] - amzn.to/3Tes1Eb - Ігри
Also have to take into account, if you run with a raid full of geared and knowledgeable players, you're going to get a good parse. Due to the speed of the kill. Even if your gear is average at best.
Not if you have shit gear in the first place and are incapable of decent dps
This is just not true for most classes. Something like rogue is dependant on consumes and buffs like wild strikes and druid nature buff because the rotation is so easy. So because it's impossible to fk up rogue rotation means there's way more room for buffs and consumes to pad your parse
Completely untrue. Not to mention this myth of "the game is so easy hurt durr" just isn't proven out by logs. The average player, even in a good group, is terrible at this game and cannot achieve 99's "just because they;re in a good group". Your parse will be better than it was in a terrible group of course, but why should I take you over a person who is better than you? I'm not nerfing my group and standards just because of whiners. I have a main and alt that I run splits on and a 2nd alt which I do strictly pugs. My split toons have straight 99.9 averages across the board and the alt that SOLELY does pugs is just under 95, as a melee, who about 1/3 of the time has to put up with the severe lack of feral druids (due to their current horrendous state) and go an entire raid without WF. There is absolutely zero excuse for you to be parsing grey or green regardless of gear or group. Doubly so if you aren't a melee class that lives or dies by windfury.
having a good group CAN(not will) make it easier to have a higher parse. This is not a direct result of having a good group. It's indirect, as the opposite happens as much if not more. classic wow is lightyears easier than retail. This is why when the private server kings fought the PVP event against retail pros they got slaughtered. didn't even compete close to their skill... and the retail players haven't played classic ~15y. the pserver kings have been playing non-stop for that time. Nuff said. It's history google it.
look at any classic Wow PVP vid any classic Wow Raid video. They aren't even playing the game. they are either auto attacking until windfurry procs /watch?v=r9zXRLl4yzQ
or spamming 111111111111 till death. maybe a 2 or a 3 depending on class.
Example#1: /watch?v=I6eIet7QRpo
Example#2: /watch?v=r9zXRLl4yzQ
rogue/mage/warlock are the highest skill ceiling classes in PVP in classic. This is why they are the most powerful endgame. even these classes are extremely slow and use enuf spells to fit on less than 1 bar ~6 spells...
My credentials are that in all 3 of these classes via 3v3 @2.5k rating till the rating changes.
Example#1: /watch?v=FoM-lF3UIJ8
The fact that engineering bombs and tinker items are so powerful is a direct result of the bland skill system. This changed once classes got more complex eng dropped in PvP viability heavily.
@@user-kq6ju6hc1w you can purple parse naked on every class. its been done.
I would like to see you parse like that on a fight where ppl are doing like 150-250 dps lol..kill times play a big part
Even his world record speed runs he is green parsing. He doesn't post his logs. He hit a 99 on one fight. I already calculated damage from the videos. He talks shit about a 71 parser "71 is literally dirt" and then proceeds to post green and LOW blue parses. Also can they post a video of exactly how they precleared? Flyhacking and wallhacking no doubt.
@@Ardell_Drelzexian you take it way too seriously, Sarthe is a good player and WoW classic is a joke, you wanna talk about impressive parses go play retail you massive noob, dont have an ego over wow classic or wow in general. THE GAME IS A JOKE, THE MECHANICS ARE LFR MECHANICS IN RETAIL
@Sarthe was a GREEN parser during the first two clears he did, this proves that if he has to face any content that is actually challenging that they are indeed below average and rely on getting carried to high parse.
Did Sarthe just make a video on how we should be selective when being selective. Aka how to gatekeep gstekeeping
He just needs to learn how to raid lead.
The game is insanely easy the problem is people can’t separate being a casual from being lazy. You can be a complete casual and do the basic preparation of getting some pre BIS, knowing your rotation and the boss fights and then get into gnomer and clear easy. However people want to just afk and get invited to a raid they get carried in auto attacking
Precisely my point in the comment I posted, there's casuals then there is idiots.
Not exactly! You ask for logs when some of us casuals haven’t even done the raid yet. Miss the first couple lockouts now I’m excluded from pigs 🐖 I mean pugs.
Lol this is why so many people want 40ms much easier to not be noticed while you afk the raid.
@@Insider9467 if you’re on my server I’ll take you on a run of mine. Where do you play at?
SOD is dead to me. The leveling journey is boring, to be honest. I've leveled two characters to the 50s. I'm done with it. The end game? Oh man, these sweaty wannabes are so cringe with parse checking and having egos in an easy game. It takes forever just to join a group to do the content. I do not care to join a guild so I can stick to a consistent raid schedule. I'd rather do stuff in real life than make time for raiding. I just want to queue up and get in a group in a couple of minutes. I want a low entry barrier to get started and work my way up. In retail, I just climb at a steady pace with consistent rewards in mythic dungeons instead of getting PRE-BIS, TOP PARSE, COMP LOCKED just to do any challenging content, man. By the way, I am a sweaty gamer. I've played Tekken, League of Legends, and Starcraft 2 at a top 1-3% level. SOD for me is not a skill issue, it's a time issue just to do any challenging content when cringe lords gatekeep you, treating their raids like a NASA space mission. Why are we treating BFD and Gnomeregan like it's high-level mythic raiding or key pushing? The design elements of having raid lockouts instead of having loot lockouts like retail do greatly contribute to the gatekeeping. Yes, yes, wannabe sweats are going to yell at me to just make a group. I did before, and it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work when I just want to interact with the game, not getting competent people together. The SOD game design just isn't for me. I want more challenging mythic-like dungeon content. Hopefully, delves do that. Imagine some Mage Tower-style difficulty with 2-4 other people; that's my thing. I don't treat WoW like an esport; I just pivot to doing engaging combat. The reason why I love games like Monster Hunter and Grandblue Relink With RPG elements. at the same time I do understand the gatekeeping to have a successful pug to just gear your character when blizzard punishes you when you fail. Classic like MMOs just isn't for me anymore and hope these players crying see that too. I spent like 2 hours just to join a group getting interviewed like it was a job
Dude straight up lies, he does realize we can look up his shaman right and he still doesn't have all purple parses and his gear is now damn good 🤡
He literally has some gray parses on his first run he claims he got easy blues and purples 🤡
I feel bad for the guy getting his log reviewed 3 mins into this. The problem with logs is we have no context on who that player is. It could be a kid, someone who’s brand new to the game, someone who just needs some coaching to become much better, some of it could be the result of bad raid leading, etc. We look at this data in a vacuum and it doesn’t tell the whole story. It’s sad, really.
100% I was just about to comment, I literally stopped watching while he was reviewing and was about to throw my 2 cents up. No context is given or known and to have the viewership this youtuber has to basically place this person on blast is honestly unacceptable and wasn't thought out. The internet and any follower-based community has a lot of bad eggs who are going to harass people because that's the kind of joy they get out of their time spent in this life. Disliked and honestly, just more content from Sarthe I disapprove of.
Being a kid is not an excuse. I was raiding OG Naxx40 when I was like 11 years old and still topping the DPS meter.
With all the content which is avalable on internet for step up, and which is foundable so easily i don't know i can you defend people who don't make any effort for improve, some people come in raid with 0 consume 0 knowledge of strat or rotation, it's only they fault... there is no excuse to this
YOu have to take 10 min of ur time to find all of this like really
Totally agree with y'a. Maybe he was taking care of his newborn baby, maybe he's a 8 yo kid or whatever. There always had bad video game players, we gotta get over it. It's just now we can see and quantify through data how bad some people are and this is what makes it toxic. That video ain't helpng them, us and the gaming community in general. Stoped watch after a min or so.
@@OMGiTzSpAnKySure you weren't . Logs or it didnt happen.
how do you expect everyone to get purple parses when the idea behind parses is that a % of players get that?
Braindead. If everyone did the same rotation 75% of people are still alienated because of luck/gear.
The point he is making is that its not competitive. So many people aren't at the start line.
@@sgc1505 exactly. If the difference was 10 or even 30% then who cares. But it’s not. People are doing 3-4-5x ur damage and I’m supposed to bring you? A stranger? No ty
im topping damage and off healing to keep people alive in my group and kill bosses but im getting bad parses because the group i run with is bad
As a casual ret pal I love sod but really dropped off and stopped playing after 40, barely touched the stv pvp and never did the gnomer raid 😢
same, ret main. ive done 2 gnomers where i 6/6 and 5/6 and havnt been able to get into another raid since. ive given up trying to get into groups tbh.
Join a guild
Classic is the same way it always was, problem is now its 10man instead of 40. In 40 man 15 to 20ppl can do literally nothing and the bosses still fall over. In 10 man theres less room for dead weight, and put that on top of ppl wanting perfect comps to be able to parse. I play a rogue myslef and even having orange average parses, its rough to get an inv whenever i cant run with my guild.
this has not been my experience. i have a warrior with all blue and purple parses and i get invited no questsions asked. i have an alt hunter that has all blue logs and i get invites no problem. it seems that most of the ppl are just looking for people that can complete the raid without having to explain every fight.
your warrior brings shit to the raid, a rogue literally just brings dps (unless they are tanking).@@Quitchangingmy
When you mention how "buffs far outscale even gear", I completely agree :(. As an alliance Warrior, I got to play with a Feral druid the first two resets, but then we lost him after that.That second lockout, with 0 pieces of Gnomer gear, I got quite a few 99 parses that my now fully BiSed but Feraless Warrior can't come close to topping, even with much better play. For example, my last two resets on Electrocutioner are still 100 dps lower than my second lockout parse, despite playing way better and having all the gear upgrades, simply because I'm missing that one buff. With better play, my BFD geared Warrior with Wild Strikes is probably 200 dps above my Gnomer geared Warrior without Wild Strikes. Kinda insane, and it somewhat kills my motivation to try to keep parsing on that character, knowing I'll never have that buff again until next phase.
Bingo! Group comp to support YOUR spec is key. All top 200 dps parse players have groups entirely formed to support and boost their dps
thing is my warrior has grey and blue parses ... ive not been in a grp with windfury yet ... and the players i raided with were undergeared but we still managed to 1 shot every boss slowly .... does that make me bad?
My son hit 40 three days ago. Did his first gnomer today. Did a full clear and had to do bombs in meta lock form. He's 11. Thanks to the kind not gatekeepy folks that let him join. I did "coach" him a bit but most of everything he did was on his own. The idea that we use a third party addon/website to decide if someone is worthy enough to play with you is, and always will be, garbage in my eyes. You can clear gnomer parsing 50 across the board. It doesn't tell you anything.
Also @sarthe you know better than to base a man's auto shot 50 parse on just that guy alone, right? If all he was doing is auto shotting in a parsing group he'd be in the teens. Why am I posting this as a question? You teach people how to parse better. you DO know better.
I’m a CTO in real life. I play a game to have fun , and l don’t necessarily want to have to “study up” to enjoy all the content. It is what it is though. Half the time, I don’t even know what the hell people are talking about- what logs, 6/6, BIS, parse… figured some of it out, but damn.
Do you have a list of your weakauras we can import?
I would say that 70-80 parses are quite easy to achieve. When you want more you need to have the comp and the strat + buffs + luck. Problem is that people don’t look deep at logs as you did here. You can press your buttons perfectly and parse green - blue. It’s more a group indicator than anything else, to many group factors are involved to judge people skill on the number itself. Press your buttons right and get purple parse is not the reality.
Where do you get your debuff tracker WA's?
15:35 The rogue wasnt putting up expose armor because the warrior sunders.
Sarthe. Are you gonna do a prep video for phase 3? Prequest etc?
Anyone know what WA he's using to track debuffs?
Can someone explain how I can see the breakdown of the spells used on WCL like at 3:03?
This is why I just watch others do the raids on twitch. I quit playing myself a few months back but it's still cool to see.
I wanted to play something new: rogue tank / arcane mage healer, I take full pre bis- enchant-consumables. Im good player 11/12 H wotlk, play since 15 years ago, friendly with good comunication, but its impossible to find a group. I've been frecuently asking for group. "checking logs" , not good enough. My rogue tank have 30-40 parse, no way i could go better than that with my current gear- i even got shadow oil- full consumables- dragonbreath chill. But i sighly understand since theres some groups 230gs with some lame greens being raid leads. But thats what it takes you start your own group, hopefully with friends.
Gearscore? Lmao gearscore doesnt work in era. Stop using it and you'd probably get invited. People know not to take players that use gearscore
Back in the day before logs, we would handle the mage showcased here by seeing he's not playing the game and simply kick and or not invite him again. People putting raids together are not typically going fight by fight and looking at what spells you are casting. Nobody got time for that. They set an arbitrary number as a threshold and the boomkin showcased gets invited over the guy that keeps FF up. To use the example here.
Yup. These freaks are actually mad at other people for choosing to not play with them because they’re bad at the game lol.
Psychopathic behavior.
My experience on shadowstrike has been very positive. As long as your honest with people about your experience and gear people seem to be pretty chill. The first run i did healing on my mage i didnt even have the missle barrage rune yet and still got in a group and cleared just fine.
Yeah retail mythic raider not getting invites in SOD bc i dont have logs on bosses with 2 mechanics while pressing 2 rotational abilities
I completely understand and get both sides of the coin, I see how logs can be useful for looking up a players experience in raids. But on the other side I think it also gets a bit toooo gatekeepy and sweaty for such a casual game.
I think the biggest problem also is people like me are trying to get in the raids and have a go but as always everyone has to get skull dragged through, no one will wait for mana or even for us to ensure buffs are up, sometimes they start the fights when I am still trying to buff players or make them food then I start the fight with no mana
I've lost respect for sarthe. Frankly he doesn't know the definition average. I guess 50% of people don't "play the game", and thus do not deserve to raid. In one breath he says the parse doesn't matter. In the next breath he says purples are achieved super easily and are a low bar. Well 3/4 of players don't meet your expectations. Maybe they should all just quit.
No one deserves anything lol
What an insanely entitled attitude. You deserve what you earn.
You don’t deserve people wanting to play with you. Actually psychopathic take.
Okay don’t watch, I’m sure he appreciates the comment tho 😂
I'm with you, just lost alot of respect for the guy watching this...and I always loved his videos. Pretty elitist take
I think youre mistaking average person for average player, for the average person purples take little effort at all in classic.. for the average player, well..
Sounds like a green parser lol
@Sarthe Green parser in Sunken temple. You are under the dirt that you say a purple parse is.
you should link the weak aura you use for tracking buffs/debuffs
yes indeed
I did mechanics to help my pug raid clear gnomer early in the first weeks and got a grey parse and i was not invited to any other raid for thebrest of the phase
I love the leveling, profession, collecting rune, and just running around all the zone when SOD released. After BFD came out I raid with guild and had fun. Then I start seeing people in chat asking for gear check and how many boss you kill to get invite to pug. Just like retail. The min max wow culture turn a game into a job. That why I stop playing
I actually learnt a lot from this.. I've been pretty frustrated at my parses and I'm min/maxing consumes and anything I can, but our guild comp is all over the place. Anyone know of a weakaura that let's you know what debuffs are available based on a comp. I'm not that familiar with other classes buffs/debuffs that I don't play myself. Our warrior is grey parsing but he was fine in BFD for example.
the best way iv found is to create weak auras for them, or find some on wagoio.
On my rogue getting 90-95 parses it would still take minimum of 2-3 hours spamming people looking for dps. Most groups don’t want any melee dps at all. So I stopped raiding just to wait for next for next phase
Buffs and Debuffs are definitely underestimated...I see so many warriors that doesn't cast Battleshout or don't sunder. A full stacked sunder with faerie fire up at lvl 60 literally increase your physical damage by 50%, it's that big.
Ive not seen gatekeeping on wildgrowth, not in a detrimental way
Anyone got a good link for a weak aura ro track debuffs?
Debuffs are huge to get better parses. I've only been able to get into 3 Gnomers (all full clears) on my melee hunter and asking for debuffs is like pulling teeth. If I can't get debuffs I cant do dmg.
What is that Weakaura called? 7:15
I missed the first 2 lockouts now I can’t get into a raid without logs! Make it make sense.
People forget that the reason this problem even exists for DPS is because there's so many of them. If you're a raid leader of a pug, why wouldn't you pick the best DPS that's available?
Careful with the ‘it takes zero skill to 75 parse’ comments and mentality. That’s exactly the toxicity we don’t need in this game.
He's a bad raid leader. I had a ZERO death gnomer run with green and greu parsing pugs.
@@Ardell_Drelzexian How long did it take you to clear? A big thing also is people don't want to be stuck 1-2 hours in a raid that should take around 30 min to clear.
He's not wrong though.
@@kengxiyes he is. It takes skill now. It didn't in the first week. I garentee he wouldn't get the same now with same class. Very toxic
@@kengxiCleared Gnomer in a group with green and blue parses in 40 min. Just to go back to raid logging....if you think spending an hour to play a game is an issue you probably wanna find another hobby. The argument is legitimately self defeating. If you said maybe more than 2 hours to clear the dungeon, i think you might have some water but if youre an elitist who is so bothered by spending any time in a dungeon why even have an opinion about players youll never be playing with?
Jumping into a (PUG) with a less-than-ideal composition can definitely put a dent in your logs, impacting not just your performance metrics but also how future potential groups perceive you. It's a bit of a tightrope walk - while joining a guild offers a more stable environment and potentially better synergy among team members, it's not always feasible, especially when you're juggling multiple alts or if your class isn't in high demand among guilds at the moment. It underscores the importance of being selective with PUGs when possible and maintaining communication about your role and expectations.
guild went in on first ID, cleared with struggle, but cleared without consumes. i have purple parses on my main. i know mechs. i want to be good even in an easy game.
but couldnt find a raid for two weeks with any of my alts bc they have no logs. even with prebis gear. its just stupid imo.
If the mechanics arent hard, and the gear requirements arent a big deal, then it seems like a lot of the problems raids face could be fixed with decent communication skills.
I don't see many groups only asking for purple parses. I log dive a bit when I recruit for my groups, but if someone can prove they know mechanics I will take them.
thanks mate ! could you put wa in description pls
yup reason i stopped playing my schedule never lines up with any guilds so i gotta pug but can't even get into my frist gnomer been trying for weeks
what times do you need to raid?
Level 40 haven't raided yet at all cbf with this checklist of things I need to have just to enjoy the game
I never checked logs and I had some players leaving my groups, telling me that I invited players that NEVER did the raid or have grey parses. It was never an issues. If someone has never done it, you can always explain them the mechanics. It's usually a communication issues that players don't know how to play. Most players are very open to learn new things and improve their gameplay, sadly in wow there are many players that don't want to take their time to do exactly that anymore... They usually search for a 1shot group so they can logout and play a different game or an alt.
P.S. Nice video. Glad that content creator, like you, try to shine light on this.
im a warrior that has 99.0 every classic phase
and actually gnomer is the hardest to parse
im currently at 96 avg and with a random group its impossible to get 99s
without all wbuffs, consumes, critluck, correct professions it impossible to get 99
most of my parses are 90ish, and i usually only lack one of those above
the number of onuse things is way too big
Honestly they should introduce buff redundency like in later versions. At the moment, there are so many buffs from only one source: A deep feral for wild strikes/LOTP/FF/Mangle, a fire mage for scorch, an spriest for homunculus (healer priests always run pom in pugs), a hunter for Lion, a shaman/paladin for strength of earth/blessing of might, a warrior for Battle Shout, a Lock for curse of reck, A boomie for moonkin form. And that is 8 dps/tank spots. There is zero room for a rogue who brings nothing. There is an opportunity cost to taking a rogue which brings nothing versus taking a class which brings a buff. If each of these buffs was provided by two different specs/classes it would be easier to find/fill groups and people would be able to parse as well. If there is one spot left and the group doesnt have a hunter/warrior why would they ever take a rogue when both hunter/warrior buffs are so important. Since buffs/comp are the most important thing to performing/parsing there should be redundency so it isnt so difficult to get an optimal group. It would allow pugs to be less selective and take different comps, but people will complain that this is making classic less "classic".
I fully support gatekeeping. However the parse score wont paint the full picture.
Funny thing is your purp no gear parses are Rogue/Feral 100s
I have people in my guild telling me COR and FF don't stack ? Is that true?
They stack, tell them to test it and see for themselves
I got grey/barely green parses in the 20s on my melee hunter alt with pretty good gear and meta pet. Had no wild strikes or darkmoon buff and comp was really bad. The rotation is braindead literally spamming 1-2 buttons 90% of the time. So now because I had no choice but to join a suboptimal pug on my alt all people will see is the 20 parse and write me off even though i know all the mechanics and have orange parses on my main. The difference between parses with every buff possible, a solid group with fast kill times, and good rng procs on top of that is astronomical. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Why do people do the twitchy back and forth epileptic strafe??
Boredom mostly i reckon, but i think its a habit formed (from PvP mostly) where you strafe to get extra reach with melee swings using the leeway mechanic
If you don’t find a group that does this, there’s still a very good chance that you don’t kill the last boss in Gnomer. I just finished leveling my Hunter alt and it was a nightmare finding a pug that would take me, even though I was pre bis+ and I had good logs in BFD. 3 outta 4 runs, my group called it quits before we finished. So I get the gate keeping, especially now with all the new alts.
Had a group on my fresh fire mage where only 2 people parsed green. The rest were grey (including myself). We cleared 6/6 easily. Maybe parses are not the greatest metric on whether your group will go 6/6
@@Mathesonguy sounds like everybody was on a fresh alt. It can easily be done. There’s also a very good chance that the majority of the raid is clueless and can’t do the mechanics or the tank doesn’t know how to tank the last boss.
Parse doesn't mean shit the last boss you can literally have people not attack the boss and win
@@tyhyhh I dunno why I even comment on these videos anymore. There’s always at least a few donkeys, who just wanna argue, like a clown 🤡
@@bigbigzubra It was a pug and none of us were superstars im sure. Just making the point that not even one blue parse is needed to full clear, so gatekeeping greens or even greys on that basis is not logical
I see alot more gatekeeping in needing to cover every raid buff in a 10 man raid. I think the bump to 20 man will help a lot.
You should make a guide on how to let curse forge play the game for you..
can you link debuff WA
Sarth your shaman purple parses are from your group carrying you. Your parse most times heavily depends on your group's performance.
Remember zico’s rumble in the jungle with the paladin who buffed himself with every buff possible. Buffs in classic are busted
The delusion Sarthe suffers is the raid group he's raiding in. Go for average/good raids where kill time are 2x to 3x what his raid does. Let's see them parses, then.
Proof: “this Grubbis is twice as long as a normal kill” => 38 seconds (can see it on the damage meter window)
@Sarthe :
1. Make a rogue with a name nobody knows
2. Get to lv40
3. Try to get a spot in a PUG
4. After many hours, when you finally manage to get a spot, please share your logs.
So much this, if everyone blows Cooldowns and the boss dies in 30 seconds the parses will be high. This is why Sarthe had green parses on Sunken temple in the first two lockouts.
is it a big nerf if I pick troll over orc for a shaman tank? I prefer trolls to orcs honestly. looking at wowhead, trolls seem to be the best PvE race while orc is more a PvP thing because of Hardiness
why dont you just do what makes you happy bro
I kinda get it but a guy signed up to my group with all 0’s except 3’s on 2 fights. No joke.
My score sucks and I'm not sure what the heck I'm doing wrong. 18% with 292 dps on Grubbis and 17% on Pummeler with 236 dps for a Melee hunter. I feel I should be higher but not sure what the issue is.
What’s your character name so I can look? Lots of things can help you immediately (I’d recommend watching a video on the class for phase 2)
@@Pinnucle Fastpaws Hunter on Wild Growth
@@Hrolfsca I didn't go too in depth with your logs but from a fast glance I would make sure of a couple things:
- If you are using a cat (looks like you are) then the slower attack speeds are better for BM hunters (2.0 attack speed cats). Also make sure you have the top ranks of each special ability for the cat (Bite rank 6, Claw rank 6)
- If you are running with a feral druid / shaman the wild strikes / windfury will greatly benefit you and your raid to lower the kill times, which will indirectly increase your DPS
- For the mechanical bosses dismantle is a great enchant for damage procs(can be put on both weapons), also if you are running wild strikes / windfury make sure to only apply weapon buffs on your OFFHAND ONLY. Using shadow oil / weight stones on your main hand will deny you the ability to benefit from wild strikes / windfury
- Ensure your spec for BM is correct(I'm sure it is), and you are using the correct runes (melee specialist, dual wield specialization, heart of the lion, beast mastery, flanking strike)
Hope this helps, ill check back later to see how you do! My main is Belind on Lone Wolf
I'm a little frustrated about the current gatekeeping too.
I'm parsing an average of 97-99 on my hunter, and 90-96 on my tank shaman so I'm really not a bad pick on those.
But on my fire mage I'm bringing consumes, wbuffs and do a near-perfect rotation and I'm parsing ~60. Why? Because my gear isn't that optimal yet, and I feel like with mediocre players in the raid the killtimes are bad and mages struggle to parse properly then.
Because of my average of 60 on my mage I can barely find a good pug. And when I finally find a pug (after an hour of begging literally) I'm getting such slow killtimes I can't get higher parses no matter my investment because on a mage you're depending so much on your group... So I'm kinda stuck in the middle-segment and can't get out right now which is frustrating.
Meanwhile no matter what the hell I do on my shaman (even if I tank freshly dinged altruns) I get 90+ parses because that's just how easy it is to get decent parses as a tank shaman. Kill timers barely matter. Same for hunter...
So on some classes it's just much harder to parse than on others, which is very frustrating with all the gatekeeping going on.
i mean you pretty much asking for someone to sacrifice a global or 2 globals to put fiery fire (reducing his parses ) in order to increase your parses.
I can see why some druids don't do fiery fire.
Maybe parses should take debuffs into consideration...
I play Shadow priest and i geniunly think to stop putting VE so i can get my 99-100s ( up from 98).
Im a casual player, I started sod as a hunter as over the years of playing the game i realised its likely the one class i can keep up with now im older with less free time. i do well enough in PvP but often i lag behind in pve for parsing as i usually just go with the raid buff and the odd agility potion. Im not parsing well, and neither do i care, i give alot of it up for some of the mechanic fights(such as pressing buttons and shooting bombs), so others that care about parsing can stand and nuke to get theirs higher . If you know me you know im reliable and an asset to the raid, if not you will likely think im a noob with parse number between 30-50. Its imperative that im in a guild as pugs will never look at me, its a shame as the whole feel of sod is to be casual friendly, but its really not the case.
After pugging BFD and Gnomer, I have to say alot of people have trouble with basic mechanics and raid leaders mostly want somebody who can clear the raid and not be stuck for 2h on one boss
Bingo. This is a person who ACTUALLY plays the game and sees what happens in reality, unlike these whining clowns crying about "gatekeeping".
Imagine seeing your toon name on this vid
I make sure to msg anyone who says "checking logs" a big ol LOL
Yea I remember when it was gear score and we had to pass the numbers even in enchants to go to Black Temple in TBC. You made really good points to make it simple - put up buffs and debuffs and press your buttons! lol We have a small guild that started late in the phases both with BFD and now Gnomer and our guild only use the logs as a way to figure out why we can't complete certain runs & why. We have first time players who have not a clue on gear/fights/enchants etc and our guild leader spends time chatting and equiping those "teachable" players. Pugs are different, but honestly we haven't had problems with pugs completing Gnomer but we hate losing rolls outside of guild. I use the logs to compare when I'm doing and not doing but we never use a score to invite to runs. ps: Shamans could out parse naked with a skinning dagger.... ;)
What addon is allowing you to look at peoples parse in game???
raider io
it was banned already by wow logs
I will disagree with you on one main issue, which is that if you are playing a class that has been recently buffed, you will experience higher parses on average.
I was playing my melee hunter in an unoptimized group the other day, after the raptor strike nerfs, and parsed a GREY 24 with over 90% uptime. I was hitting my abilities, using consumes, and always considered myself to be a parser and someone who checks logs.
Lacking key debuffs was not my choice, and while I can always improve I was TRYING to do damage that raid. So sure, if you class just received massive buffs it’s easy to parse, but that wasn’t because your shaman was magical at parsing
Y u think I only cleared gnome once
I gdkp’d for phase 1, and going into phase 2 I couldn’t get into any pugs as a warrior. I ended up quitting, didn’t have the drive to find a guild and work around main wotlk raid. Might check out phase 3.
Sod blows anyway. Any version of wow that has you raid logging 4 days into a phase is trash. But yea I still raid log it for now. Once cata hits doubt I touch it much outside of end of phase time in cata
@parkerfrode5101 it doesn't blow lol whats wrong with logging on a few days week dude there are plenty of other games to play and things to do ya know outside in real life
It’s weird how people think that because a game doesn’t have content to keep you playing 24/7 like a job that it sucks… not every fun game needs to be a second job
@@parkerfrode5101 WOTLK died shortly after nax phase cus ulduar was too hard apparently.
Was ressurected for a little bit during toc and COMPLETLY died during ICC.
And that was WOTLK.. the most anticipated expansion ever.
Imagine what will happen to cata.
Yeah but if use curse of recklessness I don't get my curse of elements
u can struggle to get apurple parse if ure raids general dps is low, and debuffs arent done as they should, even if u go ham with everything, if ure a high ilvl player. i tried it, and can confirm it. u can also get 99's with 2 buttons easily, if u get all that - a sub 25 sec grubbis kill and u hit yr CD early on by mistake = 99. u bring all ure buffs and potions and the raid takes 60 sec to kill grubbis, ure doing maybe an 80, maybe 74 if the feral isnt there and doesnt have ws/3%&ff
Aggrend said it best -- those who gatekeep the hardest oftentimes are the most insecure/don't know how to run a raid properly so that there's good communication and patience when it comes to downing the content.
Gnomer is harder than BFD so people understandably don't want to waste their time, but the amount of people not wanting to take "off-spec" things is just downright silly.
I think it's better to look at "execution" scores than parses imo.
It's not really accurate at all either to say "all mechanics can be cheesed". You can't "cheese" the chain lightning stacks on the spider dude. At least a few soakers have to be cognizant or else it wipes the raid.
Same with goos. You can't "Cheese" not killing a goo. It will wipe your raid if you have more than a few up.
Bombs on Mekgineer? Not really "Cheesable" unless you mean making a warlock do all of them is cheesing. You still gotta press buttons.
Classic WoW was never meant to be this braindead (in a way, not saying it's mythic plus or whatever) and it irks my classic soul to see so many players want to ignore mechanics to do miniscule more damage.
People don't do mechanics and are still parsing grey in my raids. It doesn't make sense. You can do mechanics and get a 99 still.
I do and have done that lmao.
Gatekeeping could be solved by allowing 10-40 players to enter the Raids that DONT SCALE.
Make a system of the power come from the amount of players, not completing mechanic or DPS check.
This gives multiple ways to complete a raid.
1. 10 players = Hardmode = Extra Loot = doing all mechanics correctly and no one dying. Death = Wipe. Low dmg = Wipe
2. 20 players = Normal mode = Normal Loot = Some players can die or do bad dmg and no problem.
3. 40 players = Easymode / LFR = a lot of players can die or do bad dmg and no problem.
The elitists can go into their 10 man hardmode groups.
The Normal players can play normal
The Bad players can all go into a 40 man for completion
If you do zero quality checking right now, a full pug is pretty unlikely to 6/6 gnomer. Good change itll only 4/6 or even 3/6 if the players are literally bad.
Not saying im pro gate keeping at an elite level, but gnomer does force SOME level of quality checking or you just dont finish. If blizz wants to fix this, then the raid has to be even easier... or people will continue to ensure that they full clear.
If wasted a gcd on fairy fire, his parse would have gone down.
yes they are killing it. no new players can even get in.
Big problem is casual from lazy. You can get decent parses by putting in minimal effort and that’s kinda what the whole convo should be about
Went on a "parse" Gnomeregan run in SoD. Worst run ever, many wipes because many just are there for parsing. On Mek, they asked me to go meta with my lock, was there crazy using Searing Pain to kill bombs and nobody was clicking on the buttons -_-. Best runs are with the relaxed players.
Sarthe is the man. His group took my fresh pretty fresh Spriest into Gnomer while he was on one of his hunters off stream and they were all really cool. I absolutely trolled and was out of my element on Spriest. Shit damage rotation, bad hommnculi timings, hitting rage mobs you name it. Its not a content is "too hard" problem. This is going to continue in Molten Core and all the raids that have been figured out already too. Its just a performance thing. I know I definately want to get better at the game when i see that I did a shit job like that last raid I had with sarthe for example. Also when you see people performing well and it makes you want to do the same. I know for a fact my gray parse can definately be fixed if I just locked in and minimized spell downtime while maintaining a good rotation. The chill dad groups definately still exist in SoD I mainly pugged on my rogue until about 2 weeks ago but thats a different topic since rogue seems to be in a unique fuckery right now. Even then I still manage to get my lockout in on my rogue AND my priest and most of my groups are chill. Having 2 characters has honestly been very refreshing. I feel like so much is just getting blown out of proportion and or certain little things are being highlighted with too much negativity. To answer the title of the video no I do not think that gatekeeping is too toxic. I think not wanting to invite someone based on performance is completely within peoples rights while playing the game they pay 15$ a month for i do not think thats toxic. You have to respect other peoples time. Thanks again though Sarthe let me troll you guys again next reset lol ggs.
There is a world of difference between an auto attack class and one that isn't. Green parses may not be average for auto attacks classes because the majority of your damage is auto attacks. So him using enhance shaman was a bad example. The floor and ceiling on casters is further apart though. You have to do something to get green parses on casters.
? Just precast and don’t stop casting wow so hard
considering youre ranked relative to the other ppl in your class/spec, i dont see this as a problem at all. by doing something, do you mean using your abilities? just like every other class?
@kiirbstomp never said it was hard, but you could literally click one button to engage auto attack on some classes and parse green. Casters, you do have to at least re click for every spell. Movement and positioning is generally more important to casters as well. Or at least Movement negatively affects casters dps more. So there is some rng to it. For instance some crowd pummler fights you never have to move if the gears and the shock burst never aim your way. Other times you have to move multiple times which can dramatically affect your parse.
@@Quitchangingmy tell me don't know how percentages and bell curves work without saying it. What you said doesn't contradict my point.
@@nuarBlack trying to make this game sound harder than it is for no reason, stop being BAD
I parsed a 97 last night as a "tank" even though I'm a ret paladin on vicious fallout because I pulled agro and just tanked it because we didn't care. It's not hard, game is easy, I don't even have automatic crowd pummeler
also I'm wearing mostly leather
Wouldn’t be an issue if gdkp was still in the game 🥰
Somehow parsing is strange/confusing to me. I have better gear (enchanted and well) than you Sarthe, i use all buffs/elixirs. I do my rotation very good, but still not parsing like you.. Is it all about those debuffs you talk about? I am offtank to on some bosses, so some bosses wont have that high parse.
This is the problem. Parses tell you how good your group was. Not how good you are. Its a worthless metric that make smooth brain people feel big and strong.
@@dronen4069 starting to notice that you. I dont look at that website that much luckily
@@dronen4069 the thing is that if you invite a 90+ parser and a grey-green parser.
And you do that 10 times, you will easily reach the conclusion, that you'd rather invite a higher parser...
parses don't tell the whole story, but it's good enough...
If someone is 90+ parses and has like 10 clears, that means that i invite someone who fucking know what is going on.
if invite someone with 20 average grey parses and has 1 clear on the 1st 4 bosses only, then naturally i will not invite him.
i don't really know what happened in his raid or if it's his fault, but i for sure don't wanna find out.
I want a clean raid like i always have...Grey parsers and go raid with other grey parsers.
I think blizzard baited so many players because Bfd was pretty chill you could try any build or Spec and 1 to 25 was pretty quick, now people are quitting and blizzard just deserve this imo they are catering to litterally 20% of players whining on twitter and redit...
@sarthe cheesed his sunken temple logs to make it look like he's doing more damage. Sarthe is actually a green parser getting carried by addons and team mates. Can't hack it as a two button melee class?
My biggest complaint is people using third party logs to gatekeep. If it was a system within wow than that would be different.
Low iq take
It’s a metric used to judge player skill. Whoever makes the metric doesn’t matter 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The question is what variables are used to create the metric, and should they have the value they do.
Doesn’t matter if an animal, human, or computer made the system.
If you deem the metrics / values asserted are worthless, then you could look at who created the metrics. Clearly the player base agrees with said metrics, because they use them lol.
Delete logs and add-ons, the majority of problems then become solved.
FFXIV player detected.
Agree.
If it requires something third party to gatekeep it shouldnt be in the game.
A lot of people dont log their gameplay at all.
@@KiaStoutThis is right. Most SoD players don't give a flying fuck about logs. It's dumb as hell
@@mitchconner2021 Haha… I still don’t know what logs.
Logs are just a way to show that someone is relatively competent. It’s just some insurance when you invite someone. And in retail everyone gets to see how shitty you are without addons now anyway lol.
I have a pre raid bis melee hunter, who can’t get in because I have no logs lol. I honestly don’t wanna make my own if I can’t raid lead because I’ve never done it haha, I am in a guild …. But no one is logging on! So … 🎉 I can’t get in haha
I average a 77 and clear it every lockout, just gotta have a brain and know the fights. People are crazy not bringing other people who aren’t parsing high.
I just enjoy the game and just level up to the max level cap and call it a day the raids do not interest me at all I just enjoy the new spells they add try the other classes and wait until the next phase I found BFD/Gnomer boring the same can be said about the STV event.