Billy Horschel at the Masters 2016 - Golf Rules Explained
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2024
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Q.
The player's ball has been blown off the green by the wind. How is the player to proceed?
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A.
THIS RULE HAS SINCE CHANGED SINCE 1 JAN 2019 (AFTER/AND BECAUSE THIS SITUATION OCCURRED).
In this video, the player had marked, lifted and replaced their ball on the green. As such, the ball (or a ball if the original ball is unable to be recovered with reasonable effort and in a few seconds) must be replaced on the spot that it was initially replaced on.
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If the ball has not been marked, lifted and replaced by the player then the player is to play the ball as it lies, because it was moved by natural forces.
Rule 9.3.
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Golf Rules
couple decades ago i was playing mini-putt with my friend Greg at the bottom of the CN tower. it was a very windy day. on the 6th hole, Greg placed his ball at the start of the hole. the wind took it and dropped it right in the hole. he nonchalantly grabbed the score card from his back pocket, took the pencil out and marked himself down as a zero.
Has the whole world gone CRAZY?! Am I the only one who gives a shit about the rules? MARK IT A ZERO!
@@NpouliotYou mark that an 8 you're entering a world of pain!
@@68air Smokey, this is not Nam, this is bowling. There are rules.
@@Npouliot Alright, it's Fucking zero. Are you happy?
@@68air it's a league game, Smokey.
Somewhere in these comments someone should mention how clearly this issue was presented and explained. Great video. Great YT channel.
ok thanks, we are working on making that comment somwhere.
That was you just now yes?
Here is the Original Semitic Text. YOU Really Need to Read This
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Praise___YaH Of all your novels, this was the most boring. Really fucking boring.
I’ll be honest, I didn’t make it through the first paragraph.
Do better. 2/10.
@@krusher74 ppll1
Things I learned from this:
UA-cam recommends really random stuff I’m not particularly interested in but I end up watching when I should be sleeping.
Hahahahahaha. So true.
So true!
Here is the Original Semitic Text. YOU Really Need to Read This
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Praise___YaH Here is a reply. YOU Really Need to Read This
Have you ever considered that instead of doing The Lord's work, you are doing the opposite? By randomly posting multiple times into discussions that have nothing at all to do with religion and in the process just being annoying, you are more likely to be driving people away from the Church than into it? Or if that's your aim in the first place, apologies, keep up the good work.
UA-cam has seen you swing SOMETHING. They seem to think you have POTENTIAL!!!
So it took The R&A 3 years to make the rule change? Excellent, speedy work.
😂😂😂
Should have put them on the clock
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thankfully, the rules of golf get updated by the R&A and USGA only once every four years. It would completely suck if there were new rules after every season. So in reality this rule was updated as soon as possible.
Working faster than Congress, though.
Interesting. I never would have thought the rule was ever this way. It seems fair that the ball owns the mark. Also, if a green can't hold a putt, that's a bug not a feature.
Greens have false fronts so it's pretty standard that some parts of the greens don't hold a ball and that's on purpose.
Unfortunately there is no game stopping because of high wind either, if there is no thunderstorm threat. So this could pretty much happen even on not such a fast green.
Actually, the game CAN be stopped because of high winds.. The rules just state "dangerous conditions".. The course committee can and have suspended play because of "high winds" in tournaments before..
Ruined many a US Opens trying to _make_ bugs, rather than eliminate them.
@@joso5554 but the announcers just talked about a time they did suspend the game because of the winds AFTER a dude 10 putt a hole
I like that official golf rules are becoming more friendly to the players. It should be a fun game, not a frustrating one.
The rules should not be 'friendly' because that would imply that they should make it easier to post lower scores. Instead, the rules should be more 'fair'. This rule change did not make the rules more fair but instead created a situation where a previously-marked ball is less affected by the elements than another ball that had not be marked.
I miss the drop behind the back rule
Some find a challenging game to be fun. It's subjective.
@@lpeabody
So, players don't need to deal with the elements when playing golf?
How, exactly, does that work?
@@kyle381000 "this rule change did not make it more fair" continues to explain how it is in fact more fair.
Like what 🤦♀️
What surprises me is that this rule lasted as long as it did given the howling gales that frequently visit so many of our links courses in the British Isles.
Naw, y’all will play the sport true. A near natural course, weather is just a condition of the game and the rules don’t need modernizing. As much as a Scotsman has cursed the weather, I doubt many would think to change the rules to make for “easier” play.
True golfers know the rules and how to play with them, it’s what separated great athletes from great golfers. You can make the shots when it’s perfect, but how do you play when it’s not? The announcer explained how he could have not placed his ball before examining his lie and possibly negated the whole situation. But guy placed his ball in play and then walked away from it, like the wind wasn’t an issue he just dealt with earlier.
Anyone who has walked in tall wet grass appreciates high socks and short trousers.
Most links courses usually makes their greens a little slower to avoid this. Normally if the wind is high enough to move the ball on the green it's too high to actually play a round.
@@jc0721 yes it's actually the pursuit of faster greens that is causing the issue. When play at the 2015 Open Championship at The Old Course had to be suspended on a windy day because balls were being blown off their spots, regular play was going on at the numerous clubs in the vicinity without any problem at all. Because the R&A had tried to speed up the greens at TOC.
@@joellahrman4557 Exactly. This was never an issue until the greens were mowed shorter and shorter. As the game conditions have changed, then so too the rules. This doesn't make the original rules stupid.
@@georgesealy4706 well, if the ball was marked above the hole and the wind rolled it into the cup, it doesn't seem so stupid 😅 and Billy wouldn't be aggravated.
I thought he was in trouble for running...
Well, he wasn't carrying scissors, so....
@@NoelKerns there’s a rule for the patrons at Augusta. There’s no running!!
This is golf, not grade school. LOL
@@patrickwall8517 it’s not golf! It Augusta National!!!
@@NoelKerns or a spoon with an egg on it.
I love playing golf, but some of its rules are ridiculous.
Weather we like them or not their still the same rules for everyone. Complaining about them makes you look like a whiner and not playing by them makes you look like a cheater. Advocating for a change looks like the way to proceed if it would allow the majority to enjoy a better experience.
@@GeorgeMcKinley. if I'm paying 30-300 for a round of golf I'm there to have fun with the boys not nitpick rules.
Just like we don't call offsides in pick-up hockey games unless it's super obvious I would have my buddy put his ball back with no penalty.
If I cought them playing a foot wedge out the rough is a different story.
@@unclejake1476 that’s fine to play that way there are a lot of people who do but if you have an established handicap and you turn in that score your only hurting yourself because you can’t legitimately play to your assigned handicap. Playing that way with friends really hurts no one as long as all agree but in a tournament ( as this video was about) it’s a whole different story.
That's simple...don't play by stupid rules
You should play by our rules .. 3 mulligans fluffy lies . no o.b and still nobody can break 90 consistently ... Lol kidding on those but the games hard enough and as long as we all play by the same rules and aren't playing competitively I say just have fun
When the "modern" rules of golf were established some 600 years ago, Augusta National greens did not exist, the Stimp Meter had not been invented and only the gale force winds off the coast of Scotland could effect a ball at rest.
“affect”
Stimp meter is useless when they bikini wax the greens.
Also the greens in those days were probably like modern day semi-roughs to be honest.
@@Moldylocks Yeah, Lawn mowers had not been invented...unless you count sheep and goats...lol
Here is the Original Semitic Text. YOU Really Need to Read This
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Why hurry over to mark it, only to put it down and walk around the green for a while?
I’m sure he believed that after he marked it, if it were to move even after removing the mark, he would be allowed to replace it. Clearly the rule at that time did not align with that belief.
@@mebeingU2 Plus I don’t know for sure but maybe he didn’t remove his mark. Maybe he just just put the ball down and left the mark there, which you’re allowed to do. Perhaps he was hoping that if there was a gust, the mark would stop it. I didn’t see the whole thing so I don’t know if he picked up his mark and put the ball down, or if he left the mark there, put the ball down and the gust caused it to roll right over the mark. Golf has so many stupid rules, but that one might have taken the cake. There is no reason why he shouldn’t have been able to replace the ball. I’m glad the rule was changed. I consider wind an act of nature, just like a bird is an act of nature. If a bird comes along and picks up your ball and takes it away...there are videos of it happening, you simply replace your ball where it was before the bird took it.
It was a ridiculous rule at the time, but as one of the top 30 golfers in the world, he should have known the rules of the game. Pretty childish to take it out on the local official
That was his mistake, most golfers don't put the ball back down until after they have read the putt.
I presume it was not his turn to play next.
But if the wind had blown the ball into the cup, he’d have made birdie. This is how Danny Noonan sank that 14-footer to win at Bushwood back in 1980.
Nice lol
Awesomd
But Si Woo Kim’s putt didn’t count as a birdie lol
Same concept but wind was not what made Noonans ball drop. It was the ground shaking explosions from the charges bill Murray put in the gopher holes.
...actually, Danny can thank Carl for the trying to exterminate the gopher with those high power explosives...
Patrick Reed: Looks like a birdie to me!
Ha!!
I always thought it was the “Dustin Johnson” rule from the 2016 US Open fiasco but this is slightly different situation.
In any case the rule covers both situations - if you have replaced your ball on the green (after marking) and it subsequently moves then it can be replaced as long as it was not intentionally moved.
Just to clarify, the new rule only matters if the ball has been marked. So, if Horschel had NOT marked his ball and the wind blew the ball into the water as it did, he would have had to proceed based on his ball's new position (i.e. in the pond).
So, just because a ball has come to rest somewhere on the green does not mean that said ball 'owns' that spot.
The marked ball must be lifted to own the spot. Simply marking the ball does not own the spot. 13.1d
Having to play from someone else's divot in the middle of the fairway is the most criminal rule in the game.
golf has many stupid rules that need to be abolished
Should be 3 stroke penalties for not fixing your divots. And also the person who lands in your divot gets any club in your bag, for free of charge.
@@dagg310 Actually MOST rules benefit players that shouldn't. Like when a pro hits it into the stands and gets free relief since it is an immovable object. Sometimes the rules help, sometimes they hurt.
Yes yes yes! If you can fix spike marks on the green (small damage caused by another player's action) then you should be able to get relief from a divot (major damage caused by another player's action)! That pisses me off!
I know how to hit that shot but the point is that the rest of the field is screwed! People need to replace their divots and learn proper etiquette.
News flash....if you aren’t professional ya don’t need to be stick with pro rules lol
No idea why youtube suggested this video, but I watched it and enjoyed it. It's nice to see how calmly golfers accept rules decisions, compared to, say, baseball players and managers.
Calmly?? LOL You obviously didn’t watch the part where it was pretty clear that he was giving the rules official an earful as he was walking back LOL
@@brianmoss9399 Well, he didn't give up totally and leave the game or dig up the green with a wedge.
Looks like A gusta wind got the better of him ;)
Ha! :)
That is clever, and so obvious, how did I miss that one 😳
I see what your did there.
Ok, have your freaking upvote.
Dont do that
I think what is more needed is a "speed limit" for greens. It's gotten ridiculous.
for real. who wants greens made of ice?
Strange trend… it becomes popular to play fast greens and suddenly every tour-level course in the country is racing to see who can make a slicker green
There is a tool called a stimpmeter which is used to measure the speed of a green, and there is a specific measurement that tournament organizers will shoot for. So the infrastructure is already there, they just deliberately choose to mandate faster greens to make the course arbitrarily harder.
If Augusta didn't have the greens at that speed the winning score would be -20 every year.
@@123tewh you’re trying to “yeah but” a general topic by cherry-picking answers. The problem is greenSSSSSS. Not Augusta’s green but in general all pga courses are making greens incredibly slick to the point where it affects the viewing experience of the tournaments
That announcer. Lol this reminds me of that 1987 when Johnny bravo was on 17 on a Saturday right after having a protein bar and the wind forced him to shoot a 10.
I can't believe that rule was in place in the first place.
It only seems that way because the ball rolled off of the green into the water. Most of the time when this occurs the ball stays on the green. It was probably an old rule put in place in the days when golf was played mostly on the ground and most courses didn't have water around the greens.
@@patrickwall8517 What if you place it and it rolls into the hole with a gust of wind? I somehow don't think that would count and there is no way to play the ball from inside the hole.
@@franksmith4730 Think of marking your ball as temporarily freezing its position in time. Just as if you were walking up to your ball in the fairway and it began rolling forward you wouldn’t move it back, the same applied on the greens.
So yes, before 2019 if you had unmarked your ball and it ended up rolling into the hole without you causing it would be considered holed.
When else have you seen this tho? Lol Announcers made a great comment that he could have been reading his putt with just his ball marker in play. He knew the wind was crazy and he ran to quickly mark it. I will agree with you however, that was a strange rule.
It was never an odd rule. Would he have complained if the situation was reversed and the slope was towards the hole and he replaced the ball and it rolled nearer to the hole giving him say a simple tap in? No, he wouldn't. Whereas now he would complain because the current rules say you have to put the ball back!
On a par 3, I landed the ball just above the pin on a sloped green. The ball was rolling straight for the pin, for an ace! As I raised my my arms in victory, the ball stopped a few inches from the hole, in a divot. I marked the ball and repaired the divot. Then, no matter how many times I tried, the ball would roll into the hole after putting it on the spot. It was impossible to putt for 2; The ball would ONLY roll into the hole!
There’s a video on here somewhere where JT had a similar situation and putted with a wedge to bump it over a pit in the green!
It seems that according to the old rules that would be a hole in one.
Meanwhile, the rules committee continues to complain about pace of play.
Ironic isn't it.
He was smart enough to quickly mark his ball but didn’t keep his ball marked while he was reading his line?
It wouldnt have mattered. Even if your marker is behind the ball, if its down it was in play. It was just a shitty rule, like many ha.
Not if he uses a horseshoe shape marker that wraps around the ball. The ball will roll and end up stopped by the marker. He will then play from the new spot without any penalty. Someone should come up with the design. 🤭🤣
@@danieldickson4211 I think the situation suggested is:
1. Mark your ball and pick it up
2. Read your line while the ball is out of play
3. When ready, step up to the marker, place the ball down, pick up the marker,and shoot as quickly as possible to avoid the wind blowing it.
Whether or not that would have solved anything is another story with how bad the wind seemed, but it’s just another possible way to look at the situation
Wouldn't have mastered
@@brendanmurphy8272 yeah that was the only solution I could think of too. Since he was obviously aware the wind could move the ball, I would have kept it marked and in my pocket until I was ready, put it down and hit as quick as possible. Still a crap situation, sucks enough that the wind is blowing hard enough to mess up a putt.
Somehow, faster greens have gotten conflated with course status. Super-fast greens should be considered gimmickry, not quality. The only time greens should approach pool-table slickness is when the putt must clear the windmill blades on its way to the clown’s mouth!
or it's the US Open !
Yeah, that was pretty trash to have the ball be counted against him like that after the fact. The PGA actually did something good fixing this.
Just to clarify, neither the PGA nor the PGA Tour had anything to do with changing this rule. It was a decision by the USGA and the R&A, who jointly govern the Rules of Golf worldwide.
If ever there was a moment to chuck a club into the water, thats it.
Not so fast... maybe some other venue, but at Augusta the membership would make you pay the fee to the diver who recovered your club from the pond!
By "chuck a club" you of course mean "rules official" 😉
I thought this was a problem back in 1982! It took them that long to rectify it!!! Amazing
I think Clampett may have been mistaken in his comment about what Horschel was required to do under the old rules. Clampett said that Horschel would need to play his next shot from the other side of the pond. However, my understanding was that Horschel had the option to replay the shot which ended up in the pond, i.e. the chip from the end of the green.
I think sometimes they over-tweak the courses. I know they need to be challenging, but there is a point where things cross the absurd.
Your comment comes 6 months before that girls tournament where they all shot 4 over par on 18.. The ball wouldnt rest.. Thats ridiculous!
I love watching it. Sorry, the harder, the better
3:11 I was hoping he was going to push the official into the water
It also happened under the old rule that a replaced ball after marking and lifting stayed put initially but started to move afterwards (maybe because it was cleaned), due to wind and or gravity, and ended in the hole. That was considered to be holed with the previous stroke under old rules.
That was funny but not possible anymore with the rule change.
Under the old rule I assume that if you left a putt hanging on the edge of the cup then you could mark it and replace it effectively restarting the clock for your time to wait for it to drop in.
@@robsengahay5614 not if it was overhanging, but anywhere else, then yes.
@@GolfRulesQuestions .. I seem to remember years ago when that happened and they changed the rule. I seem to remember that it was an LPGA event but I could be wrong.
first and only golf video i've ever watched.
Crazy rule that needed changing. Especially if you leave the mark behind the ball and the ball moves. Ball shouldn’t be in play till mark is picked up. That’s the purpose of marking the damn thing.
I wonder would the rule have changed had the ball been blown into the hole for zero putts ?
That's the question that no one ever asks or answers. All we hear is how the original situation was 'unfair' because his ball ended up in the water, but would we hear the same complaints if his ball ended up in the hole?
Just wait for the day (and it will come eventually) where a player has re-placed his ball after marking it and then the ball gets blown into the hole. Under the new rule, he must re-place the ball on the marked spot and continue playing. When that happens all kinds of people will say that's 'unfair', too. They can't have it both ways.
If the game isn't bloody difficult enough already!
Wind gusts should added to the list of accepted 'outside influences' on a ball at rest.
I'm glad I only play golf for fun and use the "Friendly Rules" protocol. LOL
Robin Williams had the best explanation of golfs rules.
FWIW, Love your theme music. Don't change it -- it is your brand!
Yep that'd trigger a tirade out of me that'd have even Happy Gilmore going "man, tone it down!" I can't believe he had enough cool left in him to finish the hole.
Yup ,,, I would have John McEnroe’d the club
That be excellent TV. Now I wish it happened to you.
Two things I learned from this:
1) Hit the ball while you have the chance.
2) Hole out your chip shots.
Easier said than done.
Yeah....hole out your chip shots. I’m sure even pros forget to do this.
Yes, just hit the ball into the hole every time or, alternatively, don’t play golf.
Actually had this happen a few years ago on The Ocean Course at Kiawah Island. Marked my ball, other guys putted, put my ball back down and a big gust came up and away she went. Fortunately it was just for fun and my caddy, who was a local, not surprisingly kept his eye on where my ball was. He said this was a common occurrence on that course so he was ready for it. We just agreed to place it back and hurry up and putt! Why do we even play this stupid game anyway?
The more I play lately, the more I respect the fact that golf is an outdoor sport, and the elements can cause us to not be in control of the situation. And at times, it can be a bit about luck.
I understand your point. However, the real skill of golf is being able to adapt to all of the various conditions of terrain and weather. Unlike most other sports, golf is not played on surfaces of uniform conditions or dimensions, therefore the player must be able to adapt each shot to them.
Interesting vid....and who knew that "GOLFRULES" was one word!
If he was concerned about the wind, could he have legally “pressed” his ball slightly into the green to improve the chance of the ball staying in place?
Then the ball would pop up in the air and go off line when he putted.
Russell, no...
Pressing the ball into the surface violates the "play it as it lies" principle.
@Russel Perry Only Americans bend the rules like that - like Mike O'Nearer.
No, you can't damage the green, nor can you change the lie of the ball.
At the moment in time when your ball decides to go for a swim of its own accord, its not a game any more.
Damn that other story about the dude 10 putting was hilariously painful 😂
By a gust ah wind. 😈
@Hoa Tattis I think you are thinking about ernie ells 9 on the 1st hole in this same tournament. He six putted
@Hoa Tattis lol you are aware the masters didnt start until '34 right and it's the only pro tournament in Augusta which is on the EAST COAST? Sorry for trying to help you not look like a jackass, but cant help yourself apparently. Someone? You apparently werent listening at all Bing Crosby is who he was talking about.
Last year, Tiger Woods put 3 balls into the water on the 12th at Augusta; ended up with a 10 on that hole.
A question: Let's say the rule hadn't been changed. Most players like to have the ball down as a visual aid when lining up the putt. If Horschel had left his coin down, but placed the ball directly behind the coin,instead of in front, to use as a visual aid and the wind blew it off the green, would it have been a penalty?
(If it hadn't, he would have, gotten his line, placed the ball in front of the coin, removed the coin, and putted)
It all depends on whether the player had placed the ball with the intention that the ball be in play (Rule 14.4).
I kinda like the "Michelson option"...ball starts to roll just kick it back and take a 2 stroke penalty....
He was absolutely slated for that under bad sportsmanship, but the greens at winged foot that week were actually ridiculous. I backed Phil in that as really, we want to see the pros challenged but the USGA gets it wrong when they make the course borderline unplayable.
@@mcooley88 well bro nobody that really plays didn't have the moment of their career when a hall of famer did what we all feel while playing at sometime....
@Hoa Tattis Southern Hills, Tulsa 2001, the USGA had a hole cut on the 18th green that was nearly unplayable the slope was so severe.
@Hoa Tattis It was Shinnacock actually
Absolutely stupid hole placement.
@Hoa Tattis "Working as intended"
What if, when it was obvious the ball was headed for the water, he grabbed the ball to save $4?
@@davidadair1387 Isn't there a rule against hitting a ball in motion?
@@trevorlambert4226 +2 strokes penalty for hitting ball in motion
Golf has many archaic rules, but that's why it takes integrity to play by "unfair" rules. It is also why the golfers of 100 years ago were much more skilled than today's players. Forged irons and wooden "woods" with hickory, then steel and even aluminum shafts took much more skill than today's high-tech clubs and balls. Greatest solo sport in the world!
even after watching this, you still think it is the balls and clubs that have changed the game?? really? the changes in course maintenance, and the speed of the greens FORCED the changes in equipment. I invite anyone to try and manage the speed, especially in the short game, with the old equipment and balls.
The NFL could take a lesson from the PGA on how quickly they changed their flawed rule. I'm referring to the worst NFL rule with the worst outcomes. The horrible "fumble through the endzone, touchback, first down other way" rule. Needs changing years ago.
No. Hold the ball through the end line or it's a turnover.
That it took something like this to happen in order to get the rules changed is dumb.
Back in the day (60's/70's) Jack Nicklaus did the opposite. Ended up on the side of a hill with a difficult shot down to the green. For some reason he'd placed his ball there... damaged & inspected? dirty & cleaned? dropped twice and went forward? Can't remember. After he'd placed it he went walkabout to view the situation and the ball moved and rolled down near onto the green. Jack thought he needed to replace the ball precariously on the side of the hill. The nearest rules official didn't know any better. So he mistakenly put it back, instead of having a simple putt. Shoulda got a penalty but didn't.
So it works both ways.
Apologies if someone else has said this, but I'm too lazy to read 700+ comments.
He should have done a Phil Mickelson and just hit the ball while it was rolling. 😂
And should have been DQ’d for doing so. No let’s give him a special invite to Torrey Pines. I’ll never see Phil the same way after he did that. He lost me as a fan!
Is that allowed?
If I remember correctly (and I don't feel like looking it up), that's a 2-stroke penalty. I remember John Daly doing something similar in a tournament, and someone else doing it on a ridiculously unfair green at a PGA Championship about 30 years ago. The crux of the issue, in my opinion, is that they make the greens unfairly fast for majors, because they feel like those events shouldn't have low scores. I don't like it. Make the course challenging, not punishing. I also hate the very concept of a "false front" on a green.
@@kennetheroh4052 why do u care so much
This is the reason "Common Sense" Clause needs to be introduced into the game .... I love golf however I do believe there are people sitting up at night trying to think up ways to make it more ridiculous .....
Could you Imagine a 'common sense' rule in the hands of Donald Trump?
@@michaelbedford8017 what does that have to do with GOLF ??? Sheesh , cant have a conversation about anything without someone making it about BS
Augusta is truly the only place something like this could happen
Come to south Texas man. We have winds here n the Hill Country wayyyy stronger than Augusta. Would easily happen here.
@@DaveL9170 I've been to Augusta, it the insane amount of roll on those greens, it's like a pool table!.
Nah, It's happened at my home course and I once lost a hole years ago when my opponent put his ball down on the green and it blew into the hole from about 20 feet away.
USGA Ruining the US OPENs, Shinnecock Hills, 2004, Chambers Bay ,2015, I get its a Major but the screw up the course every year to the point its becoming unwatchable. make the majors tough not unplayable.
This could totally happen at Shinnecock
This rule change is spot on.
I guarantee that if he marked his ball lifted put it back down removed the marker and the wind blew the ball in the hole it wouldn't have been a birdie lol.
Exactly my thoughts. There is a rule that if you hit a ball and it hasn't fallen in the hole after 10 seconds, then it doesn't count. So yeah, it's amazing they'd think it's fair to no count a positive outcome, but give a disadvantage on a bad outcome.
Well then, under the prevailing rules at the time of this incident, your guarantee would have been wrong.
Under the old rules, if the wind had blown the ball into the hole, then the ball would be considered holed by the previous stroke. That would have been to his advantage.
Under the new rules, if the wind blows the ball into the hole AFTER he had marked and re-placed it, then he must retrieve the ball and place it where it had been previously marked with no penalty, but the ball would NOT be considered holed. That would be to his disadvantage.
You can't have it both ways.
@@reprovedcandy You should clarify your understanding of this particular rule. The '10 second' rule applies to the PGA Tour but is not part of the formal Rules of Golf.
The rule states that if a ball comes to rest on or near the lip of the hole, the player must proceed to the hole without undue delay and then has 10 seconds to wait for the ball to fall into the hole. After 10 seconds, even if the ball falls into the hole, the player receives a one-stroke penalty. So, your point about 'it doesn't count' is not quite accurate.
For the most part, the rules of golf are to the advantage of the player. However, the rules are intended to make golf more fair to all competitors, not to make it easier.
i may be alone but i think more random and arbitrary rules should be inserted in Golf - by way of example - i think no more extra holes - tie in regulation - cage match
Then when can finally figure out if golfers are, in fact, athletes.
High IQ golf play: lie down in front of the ball when you feel that big ass gust of wind.
Shit lasted like 10 seconds! Coulda saved it.
Great idea! At least put your shoe in front of it.
It's the course that is unfair, the result in an obsession with shaving the greens ever closer. It wasn't that windy and the ball started rolling from rest. It turns what should be a game of skill into a lottery.
True. Forces of nature, to include animal life (seaguls, squirrels, gators etc...) should have the ball reset at point of issue if the ball was at rest. This would be fair to all players, knowing it could happen, but shouldn't. Earthquakes are not part of the game!!! :) /sarc/.
Golf is a game played against the course, not other’s scores. Championship level courses are meant to be trying. They are designed to test the best players in the world.
@@hightide9513 Well, you can push that so far, but a course needs to be fair, or the game becomes risible. If there is to be no sensible rolling resistance, they may as well require them to putt on concrete.
@@hightide9513 yea but when shit like this happens, you’re not playing against the course, you’re playing against pure luck. Would you rather the best golfer win that day, or the luckiest?
@@djLagwayEnjoyer Unless you’re putting with your eyes closed, there is no luck involved. It’s simply a judgment based on your read of the green and level of expertise. It’s the very reason every course gets the greens revised for championship play.
One of the reasons I gave up Golf was I was not very good the other was it’s a great game surrounded by indifferent rules. Like all sport it survives on controversy like a bad marriage. I’m done but I will always admire Jack, Gary and Arnold and the irreplaceable Tiger Woods.
you don’t play in the pga just play how you want lol
happened to my group and kiawah island in a small tourney...70mh winds....guy watched the ball roll off in the ocean, grabbed his bag, and walked to the club house
Commentator said it best, (I’m paraphrasing)- all the rules may not seem fair, but they are the same for every player, and it is up to the individual player to work within them. When he originally hit up on the green he didn’t account for the wind and the false front on the green that was sloped. Same wind the other players are playing in, same green everyone played.
My take on this issue is that the golf course is defective. Any set up that could allow the wind to move a stationary ball is defective. These super slick greens are ruining golf in my opinion.
Well if it had been a Wednesday and a full moon in the month of July and that Wednesday fell in the 3rd week. And it was an overcast day. He could have replaced his ball with no penalty.
only if he had eaten eggs for breakfast and wore green socks...
“My ball marker is this cinderblock”
I have an interesting rules question. I was playing a round at Arcadian Shores GC in Myrtle Beach. The course was in immaculate condition and I was having a great round. On one hole I drilled a 1 iron (yes I can hit a 1 iron very well) from the tee box straight down the fairway. When I got to my ball it was resting on top of a rectangular piece of grass obviously from a divot. I couldn’t believe it; of all places to end up. I admit I didn’t know the rules well enough so I played it as it lay. The shot was downhill, 160 yards to the pin, over water. Needless to say it was a disaster as I watched my shot fade right, hit the bank and roll into the pond. In a situation like that, what were my options by the rules of golf?
Your options: 1/ play the ball as it lies; 2/ take unplayable ball relief with a penalty stroke.
@@MarcCools1964 Thank you.
The rule was that he didn’t half to replace after his initial marking until he felt safe that the wind would not move. If he kept waiting and his time expired, would he be forced to put his ball down and play?
If he had unreasonably delayed play, he would have incurred a two stroke penalty.
@@GolfRulesQuestions who determines if it’s unreasonable is my question. Would you have a rules guy stand their and tell when the wind is safe to play and if it does move again, no penalty?
@@markskipper2199 No, I'd rely on the player and his playing group to be wary of their position in the field. If the conditions are such that a ball won't stay at rest when placed on the green, then the Committee should certainly think about suspending play.
Very good rule change. I feel so bad for that guy, gust of wind push the ball into the lake. If I was playing with my friends we would've let that one slide for sure.
I'd have taken 5 and still ended up in that pond. I can hit a ball a fair old distance, comes from swinging a 14lb hammer but, direction is a mystery to me.
Would your mates have let it slide if there was beer involved.....
My friends and I don't mark balls...we looked at the line and break as we got to the ball and who ever was ready putted...that ball would never have a chance to blow away...If I or anyone I played with had to take as much time looking at a putt as someone like deshambo , we would mock the guy...amateurs who take that much time are almost always the worst putters...
see Mr. Mulligan
6:03 the rules might have changed but at least Rory hasn't.
Savage af 🤣
cruel but true!!
Lmao
Yes..in golf you play against the elements, be it wind, rain, sun. So when the wind hit against the ball whether on flight or on ground, the rules apply.
This argument is bullshit. After 100+ years of golf, after they continually change the parameter and the difficulty of courses to make them more difficult, longer, and faster; it makes sense that when there’s something obviously idiotic happens, they can change it in favor of the player for once instead of against.
Plus when do you stop changing rules? Were the day 1 rules the best? Obviously not. How bout after year 25? 50? Nope. Oh but according to you NOW the rules are perfect and don’t need any changing.
The ball is not in play with a marker behind it. You cannot putt with a marker behind your ball. This happened to me in match play. My opponent thinking he had lost the hole , nonchalantly putted his ball with his marker behind the ball. The R & A said after I contacted them that the ball was in play irrespective of the marker because it is on the green. So I said then that in windy conditions every body should putt with the ball marker behind it. They changed their minds and said that the ball is not in play until the marker is removed from behind your ball. If the rule makers can’t decide , I don’t know how we can know every possible rule.
So at what point does the ruling that if the ball is blown by the wind from a static position the round should be stopped? In effect having the wind gust the ball that it doesn’t remain in its static position?
And this is why my buddies and I pretty much ignore the rules of golf. We paid for the round - we make our own rules.
Yes! Hopefully with a mandatory Happy Gilmore tee shot...
I don’t even play Golf, nor do I even watch it. Though, here I am.
Welcome to the Rabbit Hole my friend...
Cant sleep then
The most frequent PGA stroke penalty is grounding a club in a hazard. In this case, of the player rushed over and stroked the ball while it was rolling, he would have received a two shot penalty (John Daly did it in the US Open) . In this case it might have been wiser to go ahead and hit the ball. Had it been his second stroke and the ball went in, he made a 4. He was very likely to get it closer to the hole than chipping from the circle. In both cases he likely would have made a 5. Chipping opened up the possibility of a six.
I was disqualified for signing an incorrect score card once . The total was correct, but I hit a wedge very thin swinging very hard with the blade open to get the ball over a branch. It went through the window of the clubhouse lunchroom filled to capacity. I put down an 8 when I made a 9. I took a tequila shot in the restaurant.
Nah. Hitting the ball while in motion (14.5) is two shots. He was right to do what he did.
couldn't he have put his foot in front of the ball to protect it from the wind until the gust passed??
My brother-in-law is a scratch golfer. When we met, the conversation eventually turned to golf and I told him one of my brothers is a single-digit handicap, my other brother and I call it “hit it, find it, hit it again”. I mentioned that my golfer brother “even knows the rules, and actually plays by them”. He said “you don’t play by the rules?” I said “well, we don’t cheat…we play it as it lays, we putt out, but like I said, we don’t know what the rules are, so I’m sure we break them. Like for example, I know there are times where you’re supposed to go back and hit it from where you hit it last time? We never do that. Just take a stroke and keep moving.” He said “so you’re just playing negotiated scores.” 🤬 We got off to a rocky start. 🤣
'You might as well praise a man for not robbing a bank as to praise him for playing by the rules.' Bobby Jones
@@GolfRulesQuestions I wasn’t “praising” him, I was acknowledging his dedication to the sport. I am a top level competitor in the world of tournament bridge, another game with arcane rules that a huge % of people (who identify themselves as avid, dedicated bridge players) neither know nor understand. Violations that at my level would be considered cheating are treated as opportunities for education for mid-level competitors, and somewhere between that and ignored completely (depending on the violation) at the low, purely social levels. If it is golf’s position that before people spend $ on sticks, shoes, balls, other equipment, kicky outfits, greens fees and caddies (carts?) and perhaps lessons, that they need to curl up with the rule book and memorize it, as well as carry a copy around to refer to while on the course, I imagine many (myself among them) would simply not play.
@@joebartone606 I play with a number of groups of guys, and each group has its own level of adherence to the actual Rules of Golf, but it's usually based on their knowledge level rather than any deliberate attempt to make better scores. The consensus is that if a given group of players are all playing by the same set of rules, then it is a fair competition. It should be noted that only the players in one of these groups actually maintain registered indexes/factors, and these guys play strict rules. None of the other guys post their scores anywhere, mainly because they don't play in any net competitions where a valid handicap is mandatory. For them, golf is a challenge and a pastime, but it's not grind because there is nothing at stake.
@@kyle381000 Exactly this. Thanks, Kyle.
What if a bird steals the ball and flies off? Go follow the bird ? Or is it a birdie?
Then you're screwed unless the bird drops it in the hole
The bird is considered an outside agency, so you can drop where the ball was before the interference.
What if a (bald) eagle flies off with it or conjoined eagles? Is that a Double Eagle?
Now that golf's popularity is collapsed, it's fixing the idiotic rules.
Billy was better than a mime with his reactions 😂🤣😂. The rules official really said, Billy, you talk more than Lee Trevino and this is karma 😂🤣😂
great vid, not sure why YT is showing it to me now, though. In any case, it's yet another situation that has been caused by the modern game. The greens are way too fast, for one, and secondly, the old school guys had it right --- just play the ball down through the hole, no marking or relief from just about anything. I know that's something no one would like nowadays, but it's amazing how the rules that try to make things fair just slow down everything, muddle everything, and a lot of the time inherently are not fair. The biggest gripe i have is that guys that hit the ball way out of play can get themselves a lie where they literally get to "place" the ball, and guys striping it right down the middle of the fairway can find themselves in a divot with no recourse whatsoever.
What if he had hit while it was rolling towards the water? (Like a one timer)
Good, can we also finally allow players to take relief from divots in the FAIRWAY please??? Gotta love when a tournament is winding down and both guys hit the fair only for one to trickle into a fat divot and the other to be fine. Very fair.
Happens rarely, fairways are 99% just that, fairway. Its luck of the draw on the odd occasion it ends up in a divot. If you get into the rough but have a favorable lie because its been trampled by another player, would you expect to place it in a worse spot because luck was on your side this time? Also, define a divot? How long does it remain a divot? if its partially grown back is that still relief or not? Why not take relief if its on a bit of a slope, its the fairway after all.
@@andygreen2765 The whole point of golf is to reward good shots and penalize bad ones. Luck shouldn't be a factor in the fairway. We have rules officials that make judgements calls every single tournament, surely we can leave it up to them to use common sense to determine what's obviously a divot and what's obviously just a player being a dumbass.
They drop the ball from their knee for heavens sake. And can remove pebbles from bunkers. How the heck did they get those rules approved, but not the divot relief?
And it doesn't matter how often it happens, only that when it does it can change tournaments. I've seen in the last year a final pairing both hit the fairway on their 18th hole with one crawling into a disgusting divot and rhe other being fine. That's not the point of golf. Not in the fairway.
@@Drillbitayler If 'The whole point of golf is to reward good shots and penalize bad ones' when you slice into some trees but the ball bounces back onto the fairway what do you do? Drop it back in the trees because it was a bad shot and should be penalized? Teak a penalty stroke? Or take the good luck and play on? Golf involves luck, both good and bad.
As to the pebbles in bunkers, it is clear and obvious what a pebble is. A 3 week old divot much less so and I certainly dont have rules officials wandering the course at the club tournaments I play in so the 'discussions' around is it still a divot would become tedious. As I say, its very rare that this actually happens and one of the core tenements of golf is 'play it where it lies'. Good or bad, deserved or not.
@@andygreen2765 If you can get relief for rabbit shit, perforation stems, and spike holes from player shoes (I.E. Minor Damage caused by player action), why shouldn't you get relief from a divot, which is major damage caused by player action?
Stop answering questions with questions. That shit's fucking weak.
@@andygreen2765 You are clearly convinced, and I have no problems agreeing to disagree. If you can't understand the basic logic that a shot in the fairway is supposed to give the player a clean lie, while simultaneously understanding that bad shots can get lucky, then there really is no point in trying to reason with you. This is really not complicated, and all of your arguments can easily be used against every other rule of "relief" in golf.
January 1, 2019 brought many friendly rule changes.
At first thought it was going to be a penalty for that extra little stamp he put on the marker as he marked the ball. That actually may have hurt him in the end as it put the ball position on a minuscule edge.
Had the pin position been different and the wind blown the ball closer to the hole, we’d all be hi fiveing and smiling...
Don’t see a problem with original rule 👀
Now with the new rule change the question of mine is obsolete but as the ball was in play even after a marker was placed. What would be the result/penalty if the marker would have been moved by a wind, a bird, or the player?
Under those circumstances, the marker is re-placed on the original spot without penalty.
If they didnt bikini wax the greens at Augusta they wouldnt have this problem. Amirite Gary McCord?
Absolutely correct. The stuffy green jacket bitches must have really loved that one. "Shave it down some more, the ball paused too long. If it don't go in the hole it needs to go for a dip!"
I'm sorry but you might not be allowed to comment on UA-cam anymore on videos related to Augusta.
That’s why you almost need to have a law degree to play PGA.
Makes sense why lawyers and judges play
You mean golf. Same rules for professionals and amateurs.
If they were to say...oh I don't know....make the rules so that they make a little sense??? People wouldn't have to love their minds figuring it out? lol
He had not grounded the club behind the ball yet, should be replaced as close to original position as possible without penalty.
Your answer is now the current rule, as of 2019.
Welcome to the video
This rule i just said was from the 80s. When i guess most of you weren't alive!!
@@jerrynewberry2823 , He wasn't Penalized for causing his own Ball to Move, which was a Penalty, even in the '70s, and once on the Green is No Longer a Penalty.
In 2016, just like in the '70s, if the Ball started moving - you had to go along with the end result.
Since 2019, no longer so - On the Green, once marked initially, the Ball gets replaced no matter what or how It's moved other than by an Intended Stroke.
As a superintendent, if we weren't needlessly pushed to increase green speeds this would never be a problem. Augusta could roll 10.5' and the scores would be exactly the same and situations like this would never happen.
The wind blew back a ball into the cup with a Bishop playing at Bushwood Country Club in the 80s. Unfortunately, he was struck down by lightning at the end of the round. Interesting note, on another hole, he made a putt into the hole and a frog jumped out of it!
I would have went Happy Gilmore on everyone!
What would have happened if he replaced the ball and wind blew it in the hole. I assume it would have been an eagle.
OK it's been answered below.
Consider, the forefathers of the game most likely created the rules under the influence of Drambuie.
I'm sure when some of the rules were made they were playing with stones rather than what we would recognise as a golf ball.
Anyway, likely a good malt rather than Drambuie.....
Imagine the wind in Scotland? Blows 50 mph and they say" Bit of a Breeze" lol
@@chex313 If you don't have to put your children on a string to keep them from blowing away it's not "that" windy....
Yeah. I played in a tournament where it was calm in the morning and the wind was blowing hard in the afternoon. They guys playing in the morning had perfect conditions while I played in the afternoon and had to battle 30 MPH winds. I thought is was unfair that I had to play in that and the other guys didn’t.
And if that was the last day of a four day tournament, it would be the leaders who played in that wind. Imagine losing to someone who was 10 shots back who shoots a 63 in perfect conditions in the morning.
How would you propose to resolve that situation in a way that would apply to all players in the field?
He thought he'd pinch a bit by marking it swiftly. Too bad the breeze decided its fate.
That's what makes no sense about what he did.
Why would he rush to mark the ball, and then replace the ball before he lined up his putt?