As a former national level cyclist I have a few points, keeping in mind I follow Rips program now, at 50, and only mountain bike for fun. A: competitive cyclists have been lifting for decades. We lifted in the 90’s.B: a lot of weight gain isn’t the point. For a cyclist who has to climb hills, the only number that matters is power/weight ratio, not maximal strength. Even short hills over a 5 hour race will destroy someone with a high squat. C: look at track sprinters ( match sprint or kilo). They are inevitably jacked as hell! They never have to climb a hill or race longer than 2 minutes. I once saw a skinny roadie out sprint a match sprinter on the track by making him climb the banking 3 times.
I'm curious about what you mean by "Even short hills over a 5-hour race will destroy someone with a high squat." Coming from a cycling background I'm only asking for my context and your thinking there.
But if you can double your power with an increase of only 5 or even 10% of your weight - something you can accomplish in a few months of lifting - you'd be a much happier cyclist.
@@chrisronanIt’s called ‘burning matches’. Every time you make an effort to move faster (climbs, attacks, sprints) you burn one, and you can only burn so many before you can’t repeat this effort anymore. Like in lifting sets but on a different scale,as part of a longer effort. Thing is cycling races are more complex than recreational riding and steady state time trials. The saying goes : It doesn’t get easier when you get better, you only become faster… Same for running. Most amateurs run events as time trials, and accelerations are limited to negative-splits or sprinting to the line. But if you watch pro runners in distances from 800m and up you can actually see changes in pace and attacks. Although power training is beneficial here, it’s way more nuanced and not every endurance athlete should go into the gym to work specifically on strength.
A stronger muscle will push harder and take you farther. A larger muscle that is also stronger may push harder and take you farther but keep in mind that this will take time and loads more of energy (in and out). It can be done. I appreciate what Mark is sharing. Strength training wont necessarily yield bigger muscles but more efficient use of your muscles and its output. Additionally, possibly one of the greatest "buy-ins" for endurance athletes is injury prevention.
Getting stronger can help build a better foundation for even endurance sports. However, there is a certain degree to which getting a bigger X lift will carry over to your sport. Even for someone like me, who used to do a lot of endurance calisthenics, I could do working sets of 30 pull ups for multiple sets (5-10). Now I have abbandoned this endurance thing and focused on strenght more. So I got my weighted pull up to 60 kg (so 80%) BW for me. As a result my normal pull ups are down to 12-15 for a max set. Maybe 20 if im fully fresh. This deviation seems to get even bigger when talking about ultra endurance sports, since there you can't even be specific with your training.
People are getting this wrong - Mark is not saying that doing strength training ALONE is sufficient to improve your cycling. He is just saying that it should be an essential component of your training if you are looking to improve. Of course, you need to train your cardiovascular system and endurance equally as well.
False. by definition of course you do. You may not need size to increase size to strength ratio in a given individual, but according to the definition of strength itself, size gains are necessary
@Nexatronic Yes, the muscles store glycogen, but after 90s, they need oxygen to utilize it. If you have "extra" muscle mass not contributing to the task (and the mass of the glycogen storage dedicated for that muscle) it's not only dead weight, it's also syphoning off much needed oxygen. Let's not forget the increased load on the muscles that ARE involved in the task, again requiring more resources. If you ride up a 5km, 6% climb with 5 extra pounds on the bike, it affects the requirements to perform the task (time, effort, calories, oxygen). Done again with slightly restricted breathing will lead to further negative effects on performance. Another issue is that, heavy lifting will mainly increase fast-twitch fibres (less desirable in endurance events), and train the other fibres to act more like fast twitch fibres over time. The problems are compounding.
After reading the comments, I thought I'd add... I'm a cyclist (road & MTB), runner & lifter. I find that by improving my maximum lifts, my cycling & running capacity decreases, and vice versa. Cycling less so than running. Sprinting (bike and foot) is not adversely affected, but endurance certainly is.
also cycling is not cycling, while track sprints might require strength, tour the france type of riding does not require any strength at all, its an pure endurance event
Alex, I generally concentrate on weight lifting in the off season and raise my body weight, then flip when the season starts again. This year I've been introducing some oly lifting with cleans and clean/split jerk, which has improved my MTB performance. As for power lifting, been training for about 30 years so maybe I'm close to my natural limits at current BW...
Being stronger isn't necessarily bad for endurance sports, but it's not worth it if it comes at the expense of bodyweight. It's also tricky to program if it interferes with the endurance training or vice versa. The limiting factor is cardiovascular anyway, so it's not going to make a huge difference. If it did you would see more top level athletes focusing on it.
But if you can double your power with an increase of only 5 or even 10% of your weight - something you can accomplish in a few months of lifting - you'd be a much happier cyclist.
@@blakespier7856 true. but at the beginning you can easily double your squat without gaining any significant weight. lifting "heavy" really improved my cycling
Pro cycling is about strength to weight ratio - not absolute strength - and strength to weight ratio does not scale in a linear manner. That's the point missed in this video. In sports like cycling it is counterproductive to get heavier unless the extra weight results in a better strength to weight ratio which it only does up to a point. Then the law of diminishing returns kicks in and you start to lose efficiency. THAT is why cyclists look like they do - not because they have not yet discovered barbells. Rip is great but sometimes his hyperbole gets the better of him.
Another person that gets it. While runners and cyclists can benefit from limited lifting to address weaknesses, they're not going to benefit in their chosen sport from doing the SS program.
PanzerKami why do you care how the weight/strength ratio increases? as long as it does increase, the cyclist is fine. For beginners the ratio will proberbly increase logarithmally which means that the ratio will increase alot to start of with, then less and less
when i started SS in december, my squat to BW ratio was 1,25. After three months i had added 80lbs to my squat, and 15lbs of bodyweight... making my ratio 1,6 or something like that. Now, ive added 10lbs of bodyweight, and 22lbs to my squat, which means the ratio is about 1,65...
+Martin Sæbye Carøe "as long as it does increase, the cyclist is fine" If you had read all my post your would not have to ask silly things. Try again and particularly read this bit carefully: "results in a better strength to weight ratio which it only does up to a point. Then the law of diminishing returns kicks in and you start to lose efficiency. "
I dont really see how my own comment was relevant to yours lol... youre saying it yourself. Strength relative to bodyweight is what matters... all im trying to say, is that it does not matter what mathematical function the ratio increase looks like, as long as his relative strength goes up
Crossfit does it all. I don't remember the guys name but he was a champion Speed skater. Was known for doing squats with a lead filled intertube. Up to 200 reps with around 200 pds. Point is that people in all sports have found the value of weight training. Not a bad idea to shorten your rest between sets. It is like HIIT training.
I must be that one cyclist that does strength training which allowed me to have the power and strength to ride across a continent I have the same debate with friends who cycle who think strength training is not important.
Shifterbrains I am not currently racing at the moment but when I was racing I was beating people 10 years my junior definitely helped with sprints I am having a break from racing I am currently doing more long distance endurance I definitely feel strength training helps with my racing I always threw in 2-3 sessions in the afternoon in a week on top of my six days on the bike in the morning I also raced A Grade I think in the US they call that cat1? Cheers David
what about the gained muscle mass that needs additional oxygen? Won't that impact his endurance negatively? More muscle need more oxygen, therefore, one needs to increase stamina as well
there will not be significant hypertrophy for a skinny guy that goes from a 95-lbs squat to a 200-lbs squat. also weight gain is diet dependent. even if it did though consider the analogy of a car. a bigger engine in a car does not make the car slower. likewise stronger muscles will not make you a slower cyclist
But if you're an endurance athlete heavy lifting can adversely affects endurance training. If you're training for a marathon you're going to be running 5-6 times every week. Three of those runs are going to be long, one is going to be very long. Have you ever tried to do an eight mile run in the evening after doing squats in the morning? You're going to be running slower than you otherwise would and every step is going to suck. You're simply not going to make your 13+ mile run the day after doing squats. If you're trying to follow the starting strength program, don't plan on distance running at the same time. I started lifting again while recovering from a RSI I got while training from a marathon. When I was running I could barely do a 5x5 on squat at 205 (if at all), now I can do it at 305 about a year and a half later, but I consider a 6 mile run at an 8 minute/mile pace to be a "good run" but I used to consider that a shorter, relaxed run. It turns out, when you have certain performance goals, training for those performance goals works best.
I was running a lot. I transitioned to power lifting. I’ve made great gains, but I miss running. I’ve been under the impression that running while powerlifting will take away my strength gains. Is this true? How much running can I do and still keep getting stronger?
Agree with Mark 100%. But Mar stings my ego as hill rider cyclist. Could easily squat 165 out of the gate. And jumped up 10 pounds per visit to weight room for couple of weeks. Hardest part was getting technique down.
I've got a lot of time for Rip, and have referred many people to his teachings on how to lift properly, but all this video shows is that he knows very little about cycling. there are very few cycling events in which absolute strength is an advantage. In order to have an explosive kick having a good amount of leg strength and the ability to convert it to power is good. But it is no use whatsoever if you are not there at the end of the race to use it. Weight training can be useful for some cyclists, but not in the way he says. Most elite pro road racers never touch a bar, no elite track sprinters do not lift weights - there are many types of cyclists.
A simpler way of saying this is asking a question, 'do the fastest cyclists have the biggest squats?' Or, 'are people with really big squats fast cyclists?' If Rip's hypothesis was true the answers would be yes...
Is there not a difference between fast twitch muscle fibres (useful for lifting weights) and slow twitch muscle fibres (useful for endurance sports such as cycling)?
Lifting weights develops *all* your muscle fibres. Squatting heavy weights will make the slow twitch fibres you need to pedal for hours stronger too. Plus your muscles change and adapt to the needs of the exercise you do, spend a lot of time cycling and the muscle fibre make up in your legs changes to be more predominantly slow twitch.
Muscle fiber types do not change no matter what type of training you do. The theory that muscle fibers could change types came to be because individuals practicing a sport tend to have more of one type specific to that sport. That is not due to the training, you are just more likely to be drawn to a sport you're good at so an endurance sport would prodominantly draw in people with more slow twitch muscle fibers.
Yes they do change, various studies have shown this with muscle biopsies pre/post exercise periods to prove it. Although there is also a genetic component with some people having naturally more than others this making them more predisposed to perform well at certain types of exercise. The vast majority of exercising methods (including conventional weightlifting) cause a "slow shift" in fibre make up of the trained muscles, only exercise that specifically targets maximal power production causes hypertrophy without this shift and when people stop exercising altogether the opposite happens, their muscles shift more towards fast twitch. Sedentary individuals tend to have a higher fast/slow twitch fibre ratio than powerlifters. This is believed to be mainly because slow twitch fibre are much more efficient but also more metabolically costly to maintain (ie consume less energy when being used, but more when resting), so the body increases the slow/fast twitch fibre ratio as needed and when not needed defaults to fast twitch.
The studies I have read only mention a shift between type 2a and 2x, not a shift between type 1 and type 2. "various studies have shown this with muscle biopsies pre/post exercise periods to prove it." Can you send me a link? I'd like to read these studies.
@@awexsa They adapt behaviour, to the training over time. They don't change physically. www.ptdirect.com/training-design/anatomy-and-physiology/skeletal-muscle-2013-anatomy-and-fiber-types scroll to the bottom part, for what influences which type a person has.
this is arguably the best strength/weight channel on youtube, but - ironically - this is the most dipshit conclusion i've heard anyone come to...extraordinary.
It seems that everyone is taking things to extremes. He's not saying cyclists should become powerlifters, he's specifically used an example of a small increase in strength to increase your ability. Squatting twice a week isn't gonna turn you into some huge muscle bound lumbering dude bro.
But he is implying that doubling your squat means you can significantly decrease your pedalling effort in endurance cycling. Bc I know he's not saying track cyclists don't lift!!
With all due respect, sir, this is overly simplified and I'm afraid it doesn't work like this. I would love to see the studies where the cyclists double their cycling effeciency after 6 weeks of strength training.
true dat!! If a person doubles his squat it doesnt mean he has doubled his strength, it just means you doubled your squat (especially if this person has never squatted in his life) . You gotta be careful how you measure your absolute strenght.. it's not this black and white as represented in this video. Of course there are benefits from getting stronger but this video kinda missed the point.
though it is reasonable to believe that if someone doubled their squat, their leg press would close to double as well. there would be a lot more nervous system efficiency in the movement.
wyldechild87 that is the stupidest comment I've ever read, and that's saying a lot!, "just because you've doubled your squat doesn't mean you've doubled your strength" THATS EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS!.
This video should be for ultralight backpacking. If you watch any cycling training channels they encourage weight training. Now these ultra light people will spend thousands to save a pound a weight. Please give them sanity it's much cheaper to get stronger 💪💪💪
i the muscles ability to produce force is twice as good, the cylclist would be able to drive 1.41 times faster. but muscles that now have the ability to use more energy would need twice as much oxygen, compared to when is squat was 100lbs, meaning adding 100lbs to your squat, gives you ability to move faster, but to keep up with the increased ATP production, he'd have to transport more oxygen
I have both lifted and cycle raced for a long time, and although Rip is good at making you strong, he simply doesn't understand cycling. In cycling, it is all about power to weight, and power is usually limited by cardiovascular parameters. Anything longer than about 30 seconds and strength really means almost nothing. In fact, since strength is associated with increased muscle mass, the extra weight is definitely a detriment. Learn how to squat from Rip. It is good for health. But don't expect it to help cycling at all.
Shifterbrains You can get far, far stronger while gaining little to no weight which will do nothing but benefit you. You can lose fat which is and gain muscle, aka body recomposition, and you will not only be stronger but have greater endurance, assuming you are still cycling to maintain your endurance.
Shifterbrains increased strength is absolutely not associated with muscle mass increase. You can become stronger while eating in a caloric deficit and not add any new muscle while strengthing the muscle that is already there.
If you improve your strength, you can do your sport better It doesn't matter what it is as long as you're using power. Do your squats, improve your strength, be better.
@Travis Nunley - That is a reasonably accurate conclusion. The energy system that fuels a strength movement like heavy squats is not the same as the energy system that one needs to cycle long distances. This is exactly why 100m sprinters do not make the best long distance runners. Sure, lifting weights and gaining muscle mass and strength will help you in almost all sports, but not to the extent claimed here either by RIP or his fans. RIP is good at making novices strong and I wish he would stick to that instead of doing this.
He needs to enter a few actual races. Everyone FEELS like a strong cyclist when they are by themselves. It is only when other people are chewing your ass off that you realize how not-fast you are!
@@kciryelad12 exactly! These mofos that can lift heavy ass shit does not mean they will do any better in cycling. Remember cycling is also a skill and i will bet 100k that for his size he will be wasting energy controlling the bike not to freaking fall instead of being relax and be one with the bike. These are the people that only read but never try it themselves because they know they will get smoke and their ego will get shitted on. Don’t shit on other things if you have never tried it because most likely it will humble your fat ass regardless how much you can lift.
@@PhiyackYuh I race and my strength has been nothing but a benefit so I disagree but that's fine. You do you. Don't say someone's wrong even they aren't though.
the brick layer deadlifting 600 vs the runner is def not an accurate description. I have witnessed smaller (weaker) guys outwork big (strong) guys quite often in these scenarios. Especially when your lifting the bricks 8 hours a day. The bigger guy usually taps out earlier.
You do not have to gain pounds of muscle to become stronger. You can increase the efficiency of your central nervous system. But following the guide of sport specificity, barbell training would not be ideal for a cyclist. Resistance exercises that follow motions they will perform while cycling would be optimal.
More muscle (stronger) means your body needs more energy to function. Getting stronger to a degree can help runners or cyclists but they most importantly need efficiency (for distance people atleast) This is something Rippetoe doesnt understand is that more strength and being bigger isnt always better.
Ever seen how strong a Shaolin monk is? ever seen one with Hulk muscles?. Strength and mass are not the same thing. Exercise can give you strength and/or muscle mass and/or weight loss and/or injuries. Depends what you do.
he is miscalculating somethings, or leaving out some numbers. If the cyclist pushes twice as hard on the peddle, the cyclist will just wing up us8ng twice as much energy for the peddle push. also the legs push at different angles during squats, than they do for cycling.
- The pro cyclist in this scenario would have wasted 6 weeks of his potential training time. Cycling is an endurance sport, strength training might be a small component in his training but nothing more. Maybe Rip should train a pro cyclist, he has a large fanbase, should not be to hard to test his theories.
Intrud0r cycling being an endurance sport has really huge drop offs once you stop training. Strength will have longer staying time. If im not mistaken that is the case.
doubling a squat from 100 to 200 pounds is by no means going to double the power output of a cyclist. First of all, a good chunk of those gains on the bar are going to be from learning the movement and not actually from getting stronger. Secondly, the strength gains won't translate 1:1 to cycling. Having said that, I don't see any reason for a cyclist not to be squatting, especially in winter.
Three fibre types, four energy systems, and five fuel sources, means it is not as simple as stated in this video. Also any endurance athlete who is at all serious, has a pretty good grasp of the above. I would strongly dissuade coaches and trainers from trying to use that line of reasoning to sell barbell training to an already informed client whom knows better. There are definite benefits for endurance athletes, from lifting, but they do NOT include "doubling" one's pedalling force. Much better to sell increased muscle recruitment/activation, stabilization, and avoidance of muscle imbalance and injuries that stem from said.
when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem you try to solve looks like a nail... haha you cant solve everythig with the basic lifts and strength training Mark...
Yeah, those stupid elite cyclists who don't realize they should lift weights. If only Lance Armstrong had known that he could have DOUBLED his performance by doing some squats he would never have had to take all those drugs for 18 years and would never have been disgraced. Silly cyclists who don't understand training. Thankfully Rip knows better so we're all good.
+Kinosis79 "stupid athletes doing steroids instead of proper strength training" If you really think that pro cyclists like Lance do steroids because they don't know how to train, then you really should not go around calling other people stupid, dude.
+Kinosis79 Let me see if I understand you right: You are saying that the pro cycling teams do not know how to best train their athletes? Yes? That's what you are saying, right? And that pro cyclists take drugs because they have no idea how to train correctly? So if they only got under the barbell they didn't have to take drugs. Is that really your claim? If not then what the fuck are you talking about?
What makes you think Lance, and all the other elite guys competing against him, didn't lift weights? They most certainly did! Obviously to compete at that level you need every tool you can get, so they cycled for hours every day, and they lifted weights, and they took drugs, and they slept in fucking low pressure bubbles! But at a more recreational or low competitive level, you do find a lot of people resorting to drugs before trying out complementary training methods, that's what Rip was commenting on. It's not exclusive to cycling, you see the same thing in fighters for instance, many will try steroids before they try lifting a barbell for a few weeks. They both work, but the barbell works without negative side effects so it should naturally be the first you'd try.
Mark is leaving out sprinting and just talking about low intensity cardio which are entirely two different forms of cardio . Marks view of cardio is long duration low intensity cardio
Do people bashing Rip realize he's not talking about Tour de Franciztan cyclists, but rather average Joe's that heard that "cardio is good for your and triathlon athletes are godlike" but are weak as f*** and can't even squat their own bodyweight?
A bricklayer is not going to get a better bricklayer the stronger he is. There comes a point where performance suffers. Because lifting heavy and lifting light for thousands of reps is two different things. I agree that there is not something like bricklayers strength. The bricklayer should call it endurance instead. Which it actually is. I've seen many a 60 year old guy that has way better endurance than young guys. But I've not seen many 60 year olds that are stronger than young guys. This is yet another aspect of the strength to endurance aspect.
With that argument you must believe the best endurance athletes are 60 years old. No, they are under the age of 40. It's not strength or endurance with brick laying. The 60 year old brick layers knows how to lay bricks properly, which reduces the energy consumed. With most manaul labor, knowing how to do it right will double if not triple your work capacity.
@@nathannewman6555 first of all no i do not believe that. The analogy is obviously just to talk about the specific strenght and endruance needed. And you just proved you aren't a bricklayer
@@mynameisnobody3931 You don't believe what? You don't believe that 60 year olds have less physical endurance than people younger than them? You don't believe that you get better at a physical task when you learn how to do it correctly? You are right, I'm not a brick layer. Anyone with an average amount of intelligence can compare similiar experiences to get a general idea of what other things are like. Brick layers don't have a different anatomy from other humans or work in a field that's outside the laws of physics.
If this was the case, every pro cycling team would be squatting like crazy all the time. Every maraton runner also. They do not. They train mainly to increase oxygen uptake, lactate threshold, etc. The strength training is mainly in the movements of the sport in massive volume and hours and hours on the bike, running etc. Not that strength work doesnt help at all, it will to some degree. Mainly it helps preventing injuries.
Doing too much strength work especially bilateral can make a sprinter slower. Sprinting is about the rate of force not absolute force. Strength is important for every sport but I think it is overrated for sprinters. However I do agree that a lot of endurance athletes neglect strength training which is bad. I think doing sets of 1-3 reps is good for endurance athletes as it strengthens CNS without adding extra weight. Mo Farah started lifting heavy and then he won Olympics. For sprinting, the athlete is already taxing his CNS with sprinting and doing lots of heavy lifting will mean he/she can't sprint as much. I think unilateral work is better for athletes as it creates a more balanced strength and reduces injury.
Juanita Bigelow not really. 6 weeks, working out 3 times a week, so 18 workout sessions. going from 95 pounds to 200 pounds is a 105-pound increase. The first 3 workouts, you can almost certainly make 10 pound jumps, then five pound jumps every workout following that. free workouts with 10-pound jumps 30 pounds, 15 workouts with 5-pound gems 275 pounds. 30 plus 75 equals 105.
He really should think more about fiber type development, and in the case of cycling it should be hypertrophy of type 1 muscle fibers. The most effective way to increase type 1 muscle fibers is high reps training (for example high reps leg press) .
Okay, I've read through some comments. A lot of shit stirring has happened. I agree with Rippetoe on his anti-establishment stance. Beyond that, he seems mono-dimensional - a one trick pony - a "strength training" Chauvinist. I don't know whether this is a position he is deliberately grooming (to shit stir the establishment) or whether this is just how he is. If this is how he is, he will be fighting a losing battle. The future will hold more sophistication and nuance. The future is biohacking.
I love SS and RIp but this is just fucking nonsense, yeah the absolute strength goes up and yeah he's only using 10% of his power now when cycling but guess what, he stopped cycling to train squats so his squats got good but he can now cycle for 50% as long before fatiguing. Strength and Endurance are at opposite ends of the spectrum, fucking BASIC.
You just lost some credibility here Mark - I'm a cyclist I ride 200klm + per week at average speeds 34klm per hour and I'm a power lifter - 200kg, deadlift, 180kg squat & 120kg bench.. That's not fantasy.
You just need took look at the top athletes of the sport. Overall strength is not something you need to be an elite cyclist. Rippetoe gets it wrong because he knows very little of what it takes to be a cyclist. He’s applying his square peg to a round hole.
you do know theres two different kinds of muscle fibres right? and that you cannot be good at both? you can be a hybrid but youre not gonna be good at both. i gurantee you that if if you try to get tour de france riders to squay heavy their cycling results is gonna suffer. because you forget that they get heavier and the strenght takes muscle fibres from endurant muscle fibres. plus if he is gonna follow the starting strenght program he is gonna be too tired to put all in on the cycling. thats why no endurance athletes squat heavy three times a week!
@@AcceleratingUniverse you mean hybrid? Hybrid is a good thing. But they're as the word say, not maxed out in both strenght and endurance. It's two things that cannot be done
my name is nobody No I meant the word hubris. As in, being so up your own ass that you think that one of the most renowned strength coaches in the world doesn't know what a type 2b muscle fiber is.
@@AcceleratingUniverse does the name idiot meam anything to you? It does not matter at all what you say, the fact is that Mr Rippetoe does not understand that laying bricks all day is an endurance activity. Every single day. Strenght and endurance doesn't mix. You can be a hybrid, a strenght athlete or endruance athlete. You can never max out on both. And starting strenght program is not going to help endruance athletes or bricklayers. Thats why no endurance coaches in the world use Mr Rippetoes program. Any endruance coach in the world would say that no matter what you think. Barbell exercises are certainly beneficial to everyone. In the correct ratio. And Mr Rippetoe is certainly an expert in explaining how to execute them properly. But when it comes to trying to sell his starting strenght program, which wad intended for powerlifters. To endurance athletes or bricklayers. He is on thin ice. You too i bet
@@AcceleratingUniverse let me quote what Rippetoe said. A stronger deadlift is going to make it easier for the bricklayer to to lift 80 pounds of bricks. Sure! But it's not that simple at all! First of all you never lift 80 pounds of bricks at the time as a bricklayer. We got tools for that for taking a row of bricks at the time. And thats only very very little time during the workday. The rest of the day a bricklayer stands bendover. Very taxing for the upperbody/ower back and its very much an endruance activity. Especially since its every day the same. That's why i mentioned that about muscle fibres. He doesn't even know the difference between a labourer or a bricklayer as he himself said "whatever the hell the labourer does" that's two different things and he know very little to nothing about those activities . Now it will still help the bricklayer to deadlift. To protect the spine. I agree! To a certain point! But it's not a case of the more the better. It's going to impede recovery and interference with the muscle fibres. Also Mr Rippetoe litterally made a video of why you shouldn't run. And yet he's trying to sell his program here to endurance athletes and bricklayers. Can't you see he just wants to sell books? And thats fine but I'm here, as others that now just a little bit about endruance, that it's bullshit to train starting strenght 3 times a week for a endurance athlete. Use another program for that. That being said, if i should I'd still train in Mr Rippetoes gym if i could. Expert spotter and at explaining how to correctly execute the exercises.
The main reason strength training isn't good for cycling is because cycling utilises mostly type 1 muscle fibres. Barbell training and a strength program will increase the strength of your type 2 muscle fibres. Thus the benefits of strength training do not outweigh the negatives (weight gain) in regards to cycling.
I think the cyclist will spend the first two weeks overcoming DOMS and perfecting form. The lower back and adductors will be weak. Rip is confident the squat will increase by 100lbs in 6 weeks. I think this is a dangerous approach.
lol..cyclists got butthurt! they haven't heard about periodization... ''Me ridee my bikee hard everyday!'' Close your mouths when you breathe and leave the thinking and the ''ratios'' to the pros! #notall .. track cyclists and up to 1500m runners squat like bosses
We do have a way to measure the pressure into the pedals. We call them power meters.
As a former national level cyclist I have a few points, keeping in mind I follow Rips program now, at 50, and only mountain bike for fun. A: competitive cyclists have been lifting for decades. We lifted in the 90’s.B: a lot of weight gain isn’t the point. For a cyclist who has to climb hills, the only number that matters is power/weight ratio, not maximal strength. Even short hills over a 5 hour race will destroy someone with a high squat. C: look at track sprinters ( match sprint or kilo). They are inevitably jacked as hell! They never have to climb a hill or race longer than 2 minutes. I once saw a skinny roadie out sprint a match sprinter on the track by making him climb the banking 3 times.
I'm curious about what you mean by "Even short hills over a 5-hour race will destroy someone with a high squat." Coming from a cycling background I'm only asking for my context and your thinking there.
But if you can double your power with an increase of only 5 or even 10% of your weight - something you can accomplish in a few months of lifting - you'd be a much happier cyclist.
@@chrisronanIt’s called ‘burning matches’. Every time you make an effort to move faster (climbs, attacks, sprints) you burn one, and you can only burn so many before you can’t repeat this effort anymore. Like in lifting sets but on a different scale,as part of a longer effort.
Thing is cycling races are more complex than recreational riding and steady state time trials. The saying goes : It doesn’t get easier when you get better, you only become faster…
Same for running. Most amateurs run events as time trials, and accelerations are limited to negative-splits or sprinting to the line. But if you watch pro runners in distances from 800m and up you can actually see changes in pace and attacks.
Although power training is beneficial here, it’s way more nuanced and not every endurance athlete should go into the gym to work specifically on strength.
I am a runner who trains with barbells; 5x5. But, I love running and will never stop. Rip is right about being stronger will help your sport.
A stronger muscle will push harder and take you farther. A larger muscle that is also stronger may push harder and take you farther but keep in mind that this will take time and loads more of energy (in and out). It can be done. I appreciate what Mark is sharing. Strength training wont necessarily yield bigger muscles but more efficient use of your muscles and its output. Additionally, possibly one of the greatest "buy-ins" for endurance athletes is injury prevention.
"hwhyyy"
"hwhat"
Getting stronger can help build a better foundation for even endurance sports. However, there is a certain degree to which getting a bigger X lift will carry over to your sport. Even for someone like me, who used to do a lot of endurance calisthenics, I could do working sets of 30 pull ups for multiple sets (5-10). Now I have abbandoned this endurance thing and focused on strenght more. So I got my weighted pull up to 60 kg (so 80%) BW for me. As a result my normal pull ups are down to 12-15 for a max set. Maybe 20 if im fully fresh.
This deviation seems to get even bigger when talking about ultra endurance sports, since there you can't even be specific with your training.
Rip is simply giving the students a logical answer for their clients.
People are getting this wrong - Mark is not saying that doing strength training ALONE is sufficient to improve your cycling. He is just saying that it should be an essential component of your training if you are looking to improve. Of course, you need to train your cardiovascular system and endurance equally as well.
Too many people are missing the point. You do not need to increase mass to gain strength.
False. by definition of course you do. You may not need size to increase size to strength ratio in a given individual, but according to the definition of strength itself, size gains are necessary
@Nexatronic It's not just mass it's also increased requirement of resources!
@Nexatronic Sure (assuming you mean fuel storage), but stored ATP is 10s max. Hardly ideal for endurance purposes right?
@Nexatronic How do they come with their own fuel? Muscles don't make fuel, they burn it.
www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/1920-energy-for-exercise
@Nexatronic Yes, the muscles store glycogen, but after 90s, they need oxygen to utilize it. If you have "extra" muscle mass not contributing to the task (and the mass of the glycogen storage dedicated for that muscle) it's not only dead weight, it's also syphoning off much needed oxygen. Let's not forget the increased load on the muscles that ARE involved in the task, again requiring more resources.
If you ride up a 5km, 6% climb with 5 extra pounds on the bike, it affects the requirements to perform the task (time, effort, calories, oxygen). Done again with slightly restricted breathing will lead to further negative effects on performance.
Another issue is that, heavy lifting will mainly increase fast-twitch fibres (less desirable in endurance events), and train the other fibres to act more like fast twitch fibres over time.
The problems are compounding.
if you get stronger withou gaining weight all of your fitness aspects will increse for sure.
It’s also virtually impossible...
After reading the comments, I thought I'd add...
I'm a cyclist (road & MTB), runner & lifter. I find that by improving my maximum lifts, my cycling & running capacity decreases, and vice versa. Cycling less so than running. Sprinting (bike and foot) is not adversely affected, but endurance certainly is.
yeah since endurance and strength are on different ends of the spectrum, you cant have both because both are physiologically exclusive
also cycling is not cycling, while track sprints might require strength, tour the france type of riding does not require any strength at all, its an pure endurance event
Dylan Thomas so then let's just get You generally stronger for 6 months. Then condition you later on for cycling.
Alex, I generally concentrate on weight lifting in the off season and raise my body weight, then flip when the season starts again. This year I've been introducing some oly lifting with cleans and clean/split jerk, which has improved my MTB performance. As for power lifting, been training for about 30 years so maybe I'm close to my natural limits at current BW...
Dylan Thomas what are your numbers?
Being stronger isn't necessarily bad for endurance sports, but it's not worth it if it comes at the expense of bodyweight. It's also tricky to program if it interferes with the endurance training or vice versa. The limiting factor is cardiovascular anyway, so it's not going to make a huge difference. If it did you would see more top level athletes focusing on it.
But if you can double your power with an increase of only 5 or even 10% of your weight - something you can accomplish in a few months of lifting - you'd be a much happier cyclist.
I'd imagine that Sprint and uphill drives would be much easier with a little extra strength capacity no?
being stronger helps everything. especially power and endurance.
Eh depends on how much extra weight you have to carry
@@blakespier7856 true. but at the beginning you can easily double your squat without gaining any significant weight. lifting "heavy" really improved my cycling
Pro cycling is about strength to weight ratio - not absolute strength - and strength to weight ratio does not scale in a linear manner. That's the point missed in this video. In sports like cycling it is counterproductive to get heavier unless the extra weight results in a better strength to weight ratio which it only does up to a point. Then the law of diminishing returns kicks in and you start to lose efficiency.
THAT is why cyclists look like they do - not because they have not yet discovered barbells.
Rip is great but sometimes his hyperbole gets the better of him.
Another person that gets it. While runners and cyclists can benefit from limited lifting to address weaknesses, they're not going to benefit in their chosen sport from doing the SS program.
PanzerKami why do you care how the weight/strength ratio increases? as long as it does increase, the cyclist is fine. For beginners the ratio will proberbly increase logarithmally which means that the ratio will increase alot to start of with, then less and less
when i started SS in december, my squat to BW ratio was 1,25. After three months i had added 80lbs to my squat, and 15lbs of bodyweight... making my ratio 1,6 or something like that. Now, ive added 10lbs of bodyweight, and 22lbs to my squat, which means the ratio is about 1,65...
+Martin Sæbye Carøe "as long as it does increase, the cyclist is fine"
If you had read all my post your would not have to ask silly things. Try again and particularly read this bit carefully: "results in a better strength to weight ratio which it only does up to a point. Then the law of diminishing returns kicks in and you start to lose efficiency. "
I dont really see how my own comment was relevant to yours lol... youre saying it yourself. Strength relative to bodyweight is what matters... all im trying to say, is that it does not matter what mathematical function the ratio increase looks like, as long as his relative strength goes up
Crossfit does it all. I don't remember the guys name but he was a champion Speed skater. Was known for doing squats with a lead filled intertube. Up to 200 reps with around 200 pds. Point is that people in all sports have found the value of weight training. Not a bad idea to shorten your rest between sets. It is like HIIT training.
Speed skating, 200reps, shortened rest...You are describing endurance training.
crossfit does it all WRONG
I must be that one cyclist that does strength training which allowed me to have the power and strength to ride across a continent I have the same debate with friends who cycle who think strength training is not important.
Were you actually racing anyone ?
It is easy to feel like a strong cyclist when you are by yourself.
Shifterbrains I am not currently racing at the moment but when I was racing I was beating people 10 years my junior definitely helped with sprints
I am having a break from racing I am currently doing more long distance endurance I definitely feel strength training helps with my racing I always threw in 2-3 sessions in the afternoon in a week on top of my six days on the bike in the morning I also raced A Grade
I think in the US they call that cat1?
Cheers David
Cyclist invented the cyclist squat that turned it from a glute and back exercise into a quadricep exercise.
what about the gained muscle mass that needs additional oxygen?
Won't that impact his endurance negatively?
More muscle need more oxygen, therefore, one needs to increase stamina as well
you can gain strength without gaining muscle mass.
it's call strength per lbs of bodyweight increase
there will not be significant hypertrophy for a skinny guy that goes from a 95-lbs squat to a 200-lbs squat. also weight gain is diet dependent. even if it did though consider the analogy of a car. a bigger engine in a car does not make the car slower. likewise stronger muscles will not make you a slower cyclist
This is what I love about starting strength, everything is made to be so common sensical.
Makes perfect sense to me.
But if you're an endurance athlete heavy lifting can adversely affects endurance training. If you're training for a marathon you're going to be running 5-6 times every week. Three of those runs are going to be long, one is going to be very long. Have you ever tried to do an eight mile run in the evening after doing squats in the morning? You're going to be running slower than you otherwise would and every step is going to suck. You're simply not going to make your 13+ mile run the day after doing squats. If you're trying to follow the starting strength program, don't plan on distance running at the same time.
I started lifting again while recovering from a RSI I got while training from a marathon. When I was running I could barely do a 5x5 on squat at 205 (if at all), now I can do it at 305 about a year and a half later, but I consider a 6 mile run at an 8 minute/mile pace to be a "good run" but I used to consider that a shorter, relaxed run. It turns out, when you have certain performance goals, training for those performance goals works best.
Make everything sub-maximal.
Calling this bro science would be a compliment
I was running a lot. I transitioned to power lifting. I’ve made great gains, but I miss running. I’ve been under the impression that running while powerlifting will take away my strength gains. Is this true? How much running can I do and still keep getting stronger?
Agree with Mark 100%. But Mar stings my ego as hill rider cyclist. Could easily squat 165 out of the gate. And jumped up 10 pounds per visit to weight room for couple of weeks. Hardest part was getting technique down.
The cyclist not very strong, won’t train with barbells is hilarious. Lots of track cyclist do tons of Olympic weightlifting lifting.
I've got a lot of time for Rip, and have referred many people to his teachings on how to lift properly, but all this video shows is that he knows very little about cycling. there are very few cycling events in which absolute strength is an advantage. In order to have an explosive kick having a good amount of leg strength and the ability to convert it to power is good. But it is no use whatsoever if you are not there at the end of the race to use it. Weight training can be useful for some cyclists, but not in the way he says. Most elite pro road racers never touch a bar, no elite track sprinters do not lift weights - there are many types of cyclists.
A simpler way of saying this is asking a question, 'do the fastest cyclists have the biggest squats?' Or, 'are people with really big squats fast cyclists?' If Rip's hypothesis was true the answers would be yes...
Rip on cycling? I'll be back after getting bbq tips from a vegan and bourbon recommendations from a Mormon.
Exactly.
as a Mormon myself, I must say that was a great joke! 😆
Exactly. I'll take his endurance advice after he runs a few marathons.
Steroids do increase endurance
Epalahame Sitauti He used drugs which increased the hemoglobin in the blood allowing for more oxygen bonding.
The video is about recreational cyclists and the comment section is about pro cyclists.
Nothing wrong with barbell training for RECREATIONAL endurance participants.
Is there not a difference between fast twitch muscle fibres (useful for lifting weights) and slow twitch muscle fibres (useful for endurance sports such as cycling)?
Lifting weights develops *all* your muscle fibres. Squatting heavy weights will make the slow twitch fibres you need to pedal for hours stronger too. Plus your muscles change and adapt to the needs of the exercise you do, spend a lot of time cycling and the muscle fibre make up in your legs changes to be more predominantly slow twitch.
Muscle fiber types do not change no matter what type of training you do. The theory that muscle fibers could change types came to be because individuals practicing a sport tend to have more of one type specific to that sport. That is not due to the training, you are just more likely to be drawn to a sport you're good at so an endurance sport would prodominantly draw in people with more slow twitch muscle fibers.
Yes they do change, various studies have shown this with muscle biopsies pre/post exercise periods to prove it. Although there is also a genetic component with some people having naturally more than others this making them more predisposed to perform well at certain types of exercise. The vast majority of exercising methods (including conventional weightlifting) cause a "slow shift" in fibre make up of the trained muscles, only exercise that specifically targets maximal power production causes hypertrophy without this shift and when people stop exercising altogether the opposite happens, their muscles shift more towards fast twitch. Sedentary individuals tend to have a higher fast/slow twitch fibre ratio than powerlifters.
This is believed to be mainly because slow twitch fibre are much more efficient but also more metabolically costly to maintain (ie consume less energy when being used, but more when resting), so the body increases the slow/fast twitch fibre ratio as needed and when not needed defaults to fast twitch.
The studies I have read only mention a shift between type 2a and 2x, not a shift between type 1 and type 2.
"various studies have shown this with muscle biopsies pre/post exercise periods to prove it."
Can you send me a link? I'd like to read these studies.
@@awexsa They adapt behaviour, to the training over time. They don't change physically.
www.ptdirect.com/training-design/anatomy-and-physiology/skeletal-muscle-2013-anatomy-and-fiber-types
scroll to the bottom part, for what influences which type a person has.
this is arguably the best strength/weight channel on youtube, but - ironically - this is the most dipshit conclusion i've heard anyone come to...extraordinary.
@4:49 Any Intact male ?
Testosterone is a helluva drug.
I did it. At the age of forty eight. After heart surgery. How hard can it be?
(Veterinary term-with testicles)
Laughed out loud when he said that.
uncircumcised.
It seems that everyone is taking things to extremes.
He's not saying cyclists should become powerlifters, he's specifically used an example of a small increase in strength to increase your ability.
Squatting twice a week isn't gonna turn you into some huge muscle bound lumbering dude bro.
But he is implying that doubling your squat means you can significantly decrease your pedalling effort in endurance cycling.
Bc I know he's not saying track cyclists don't lift!!
With all due respect, sir, this is overly simplified and I'm afraid it doesn't work like this. I would love to see the studies where the cyclists double their cycling effeciency after 6 weeks of strength training.
true dat!! If a person doubles his squat it doesnt mean he has doubled his strength, it just means you doubled your squat (especially if this person has never squatted in his life) . You gotta be careful how you measure your absolute strenght.. it's not this black and white as represented in this video. Of course there are benefits from getting stronger but this video kinda missed the point.
though it is reasonable to believe that if someone doubled their squat, their leg press would close to double as well. there would be a lot more nervous system efficiency in the movement.
wyldechild87 that is the stupidest comment I've ever read, and that's saying a lot!, "just because you've doubled your squat doesn't mean you've doubled your strength" THATS EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS!.
liptak15 double strength doesn't mean double efficiency.
@David Booker The 3rd sentence in that article states that Lance used steroids
This video should be for ultralight backpacking. If you watch any cycling training channels they encourage weight training. Now these ultra light people will spend thousands to save a pound a weight. Please give them sanity it's much cheaper to get stronger 💪💪💪
Remember that pic of Obama in mom jeans wearing a helmet on a bicycle?
I rest my case.
Bro-Science Class
There are power pedals that measue your stroke.
What is the case with kayaking?
i the muscles ability to produce force is twice as good, the cylclist would be able to drive 1.41 times faster. but muscles that now have the ability to use more energy would need twice as much oxygen, compared to when is squat was 100lbs, meaning adding 100lbs to your squat, gives you ability to move faster, but to keep up with the increased ATP production, he'd have to transport more oxygen
I have both lifted and cycle raced for a long time, and although Rip is good at making you strong, he simply doesn't understand cycling. In cycling, it is all about power to weight, and power is usually limited by cardiovascular parameters. Anything longer than about 30 seconds and strength really means almost nothing. In fact, since strength is associated with increased muscle mass, the extra weight is definitely a detriment.
Learn how to squat from Rip. It is good for health. But don't expect it to help cycling at all.
Shifterbrains You can get far, far stronger while gaining little to no weight which will do nothing but benefit you. You can lose fat which is and gain muscle, aka body recomposition, and you will not only be stronger but have greater endurance, assuming you are still cycling to maintain your endurance.
Shifterbrains increased strength is absolutely not associated with muscle mass increase. You can become stronger while eating in a caloric deficit and not add any new muscle while strengthing the muscle that is already there.
If you improve your strength, you can do your sport better
It doesn't matter what it is as long as you're using power. Do your squats, improve your strength, be better.
@Travis Nunley - That is a reasonably accurate conclusion. The energy system that fuels a strength movement like heavy squats is not the same as the energy system that one needs to cycle long distances. This is exactly why 100m sprinters do not make the best long distance runners. Sure, lifting weights and gaining muscle mass and strength will help you in almost all sports, but not to the extent claimed here either by RIP or his fans. RIP is good at making novices strong and I wish he would stick to that instead of doing this.
@@lunchlump only to a certain point. ..
Mark needs to cycle..
He needs to enter a few actual races. Everyone FEELS like a strong cyclist when they are by themselves. It is only when other people are chewing your ass off that you realize how not-fast you are!
@@kciryelad12 IDK, I realize how "not-fast" I am during every interval. LOl
@@kciryelad12 exactly! These mofos that can lift heavy ass shit does not mean they will do any better in cycling. Remember cycling is also a skill and i will bet 100k that for his size he will be wasting energy controlling the bike not to freaking fall instead of being relax and be one with the bike. These are the people that only read but never try it themselves because they know they will get smoke and their ego will get shitted on. Don’t shit on other things if you have never tried it because most likely it will humble your fat ass regardless how much you can lift.
@@PhiyackYuh I race and my strength has been nothing but a benefit so I disagree but that's fine. You do you. Don't say someone's wrong even they aren't though.
Thats why people train with power meters.
in endurance sport vascularity is key, you need capillaries to feed your muscles.
The three guys in the front have huge backs. They must be good lifters.
the brick layer deadlifting 600 vs the runner is def not an accurate description. I have witnessed smaller (weaker) guys outwork big (strong) guys quite often in these scenarios. Especially when your lifting the bricks 8 hours a day. The bigger guy usually taps out earlier.
You do not have to gain pounds of muscle to become stronger. You can increase the efficiency of your central nervous system. But following the guide of sport specificity, barbell training would not be ideal for a cyclist. Resistance exercises that follow motions they will perform while cycling would be optimal.
Wrong.
More muscle (stronger) means your body needs more energy to function. Getting stronger to a degree can help runners or cyclists but they most importantly need efficiency (for distance people atleast) This is something Rippetoe doesnt understand is that more strength and being bigger isnt always better.
Have you seen some of the track cyclist legs? THEY SQUAT!
Don Gregers They probably do 10-20 rep squats
Ever seen how strong a Shaolin monk is? ever seen one with Hulk muscles?. Strength and mass are not the same thing. Exercise can give you strength and/or muscle mass and/or weight loss and/or injuries. Depends what you do.
@@MLDRBRY No, one of the best european pros squats 502 for a triple.
@@paulthoresen8241 No Shaolin monk is squatting 405.
he is miscalculating somethings, or leaving out some numbers. If the cyclist pushes twice as hard on the peddle, the cyclist will just wing up us8ng twice as much energy for the peddle push. also the legs push at different angles during squats, than they do for cycling.
- The pro cyclist in this scenario would have wasted 6 weeks of his potential training time. Cycling is an endurance sport, strength training might be a small component in his training but nothing more.
Maybe Rip should train a pro cyclist, he has a large fanbase, should not be to hard to test his theories.
Intrud0r cycling being an endurance sport has really huge drop offs once you stop training. Strength will have longer staying time. If im not mistaken that is the case.
doubling a squat from 100 to 200 pounds is by no means going to double the power output of a cyclist. First of all, a good chunk of those gains on the bar are going to be from learning the movement and not actually from getting stronger. Secondly, the strength gains won't translate 1:1 to cycling. Having said that, I don't see any reason for a cyclist not to be squatting, especially in winter.
Three fibre types, four energy systems, and five fuel sources, means it is not as simple as stated in this video. Also any endurance athlete who is at all serious, has a pretty good grasp of the above. I would strongly dissuade coaches and trainers from trying to use that line of reasoning to sell barbell training to an already informed client whom knows better. There are definite benefits for endurance athletes, from lifting, but they do NOT include "doubling" one's pedalling force. Much better to sell increased muscle recruitment/activation, stabilization, and avoidance of muscle imbalance and injuries that stem from said.
Once again, Rippetoe venturing outside his knowledge zone. Hilarious.
when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem you try to solve looks like a nail... haha
you cant solve everythig with the basic lifts and strength training Mark...
You can when almost everything depends on strength.
eliuot kipchoge did not break the 2hour marathon with a 315 squat. he run alot to break it
Only if Lance Armstrong knew this smh!
Yeah, those stupid elite cyclists who don't realize they should lift weights.
If only Lance Armstrong had known that he could have DOUBLED his performance by doing some squats he would never have had to take all those drugs for 18 years and would never have been disgraced. Silly cyclists who don't understand training.
Thankfully Rip knows better so we're all good.
+Kinosis79 "stupid athletes doing steroids instead of proper strength training"
If you really think that pro cyclists like Lance do steroids because they don't know how to train, then you really should not go around calling other people stupid, dude.
+Kinosis79 Let me see if I understand you right: You are saying that the pro cycling teams do not know how to best train their athletes? Yes? That's what you are saying, right? And that pro cyclists take drugs because they have no idea how to train correctly? So if they only got under the barbell they didn't have to take drugs.
Is that really your claim? If not then what the fuck are you talking about?
What makes you think Lance, and all the other elite guys competing against him, didn't lift weights? They most certainly did!
Obviously to compete at that level you need every tool you can get, so they cycled for hours every day, and they lifted weights, and they took drugs, and they slept in fucking low pressure bubbles!
But at a more recreational or low competitive level, you do find a lot of people resorting to drugs before trying out complementary training methods, that's what Rip was commenting on. It's not exclusive to cycling, you see the same thing in fighters for instance, many will try steroids before they try lifting a barbell for a few weeks. They both work, but the barbell works without negative side effects so it should naturally be the first you'd try.
+receo11 "Seybertooth Your clueless"
And yet you can't point out a single thing that I am wrong about?
Strong argument there, son. Powerful.
Lance invested time in strength training, squats, dl's, etc.
Mark is leaving out sprinting and just talking about low intensity cardio which are entirely two different forms of cardio . Marks view of cardio is long duration low intensity cardio
Do people bashing Rip realize he's not talking about Tour de Franciztan cyclists, but rather average Joe's that heard that "cardio is good for your and triathlon athletes are godlike" but are weak as f*** and can't even squat their own bodyweight?
I love the guy...but obviously he never rode a bike for more than a few miles.
deavman he also obviously never took an exercise physiology course.
A bricklayer is not going to get a better bricklayer the stronger he is.
There comes a point where performance suffers.
Because lifting heavy and lifting light for thousands of reps is two different things.
I agree that there is not something like bricklayers strength.
The bricklayer should call it endurance instead. Which it actually is.
I've seen many a 60 year old guy that has way better endurance than young guys.
But I've not seen many 60 year olds that are stronger than young guys.
This is yet another aspect of the strength to endurance aspect.
With that argument you must believe the best endurance athletes are 60 years old. No, they are under the age of 40. It's not strength or endurance with brick laying. The 60 year old brick layers knows how to lay bricks properly, which reduces the energy consumed. With most manaul labor, knowing how to do it right will double if not triple your work capacity.
@@nathannewman6555 you have not a fucking clue what you talk about. Nothing you said is true in any way
@@nathannewman6555 first of all no i do not believe that. The analogy is obviously just to talk about the specific strenght and endruance needed.
And you just proved you aren't a bricklayer
@@mynameisnobody3931 You don't believe what? You don't believe that 60 year olds have less physical endurance than people younger than them? You don't believe that you get better at a physical task when you learn how to do it correctly?
You are right, I'm not a brick layer. Anyone with an average amount of intelligence can compare similiar experiences to get a general idea of what other things are like. Brick layers don't have a different anatomy from other humans or work in a field that's outside the laws of physics.
@@nathannewman6555 look back and see what you asked me before. That is what i answered.
Kilian Jornet
lots of people here are still using common sense, its amusing
If this was the case, every pro cycling team would be squatting like crazy all the time. Every maraton runner also. They do not. They train mainly to increase oxygen uptake, lactate threshold, etc. The strength training is mainly in the movements of the sport in massive volume and hours and hours on the bike, running etc. Not that strength work doesnt help at all, it will to some degree. Mainly it helps preventing injuries.
Doing too much strength work especially bilateral can make a sprinter slower. Sprinting is about the rate of force not absolute force. Strength is important for every sport but I think it is overrated for sprinters. However I do agree that a lot of endurance athletes neglect strength training which is bad. I think doing sets of 1-3 reps is good for endurance athletes as it strengthens CNS without adding extra weight. Mo Farah started lifting heavy and then he won Olympics. For sprinting, the athlete is already taxing his CNS with sprinting and doing lots of heavy lifting will mean he/she can't sprint as much. I think unilateral work is better for athletes as it creates a more balanced strength and reduces injury.
...nice theorie, poor outcome in real: only functions in equal metabolic circumstances, that means: 5 x 5 pedalstrokes :-)
squat from 95 to 200lb in six weeks that insane !
Juanita Bigelow not really. 6 weeks, working out 3 times a week, so 18 workout sessions. going from 95 pounds to 200 pounds is a 105-pound increase. The first 3 workouts, you can almost certainly make 10 pound jumps, then five pound jumps every workout following that. free workouts with 10-pound jumps 30 pounds, 15 workouts with 5-pound gems 275 pounds. 30 plus 75 equals 105.
...like he said, your just fixing a shit DL.
He really should think more about fiber type development, and in the case of cycling it should be hypertrophy of type 1 muscle fibers. The most effective way to increase type 1 muscle fibers is high reps training (for example high reps leg press) .
Bollocks any serious cyclist works with a barbell twice a week at least
HighFiveTRex Track cyclist and possibly mountain bikers, yes. But road cyclists, definitely not
Not in my experience though I suppose I can't speak for everyone
I believe you, Dave Grohl!
That is just false. Many top road cyclists never touch a weight at all.
HighFiveTRex oh shit we have a legit triathlete speaking here.....
Okay, I've read through some comments. A lot of shit stirring has happened. I agree with Rippetoe on his anti-establishment stance. Beyond that, he seems mono-dimensional - a one trick pony - a "strength training" Chauvinist. I don't know whether this is a position he is deliberately grooming (to shit stir the establishment) or whether this is just how he is. If this is how he is, he will be fighting a losing battle. The future will hold more sophistication and nuance. The future is biohacking.
its videos like this that make rip look dumb😂… flawed logic
Doubt it.
I love SS and RIp but this is just fucking nonsense, yeah the absolute strength goes up and yeah he's only using 10% of his power now when cycling but guess what, he stopped cycling to train squats so his squats got good but he can now cycle for 50% as long before fatiguing. Strength and Endurance are at opposite ends of the spectrum, fucking BASIC.
Ahmmm... All professional cyclists Squat and heavy. Just FYI.
@Jerry Thomas I'm not talking about casual Cyclists.
@Frank Burjan yup
@Frank Burjan yaaa I know of him :). Thanks
Doing 50 rep sets will not make you strong, so why would being strong make you good at 5000 rep competitions.
You just lost some credibility here Mark - I'm a cyclist I ride 200klm + per week at average speeds 34klm per hour and I'm a power lifter - 200kg, deadlift, 180kg squat & 120kg bench.. That's not fantasy.
Is that supposed to be impressive?
You just need took look at the top athletes of the sport. Overall strength is not something you need to be an elite cyclist. Rippetoe gets it wrong because he knows very little of what it takes to be a cyclist. He’s applying his square peg to a round hole.
There are video's on youtube of cyclist's out squatting bodybuilders, and power lifters, a simple search will prove this.
Any "intact" male hahahahahahah
you do know theres two different kinds of muscle fibres right?
and that you cannot be good at both?
you can be a hybrid but youre not gonna be good at both.
i gurantee you that if if you try to get tour de france riders to squay heavy their cycling results is gonna suffer.
because you forget that they get heavier and the strenght takes muscle fibres from endurant muscle fibres.
plus if he is gonna follow the starting strenght program he is gonna be too tired to put all in on the cycling.
thats why no endurance athletes squat heavy three times a week!
does the word hubris mean anything to you?
@@AcceleratingUniverse you mean hybrid?
Hybrid is a good thing.
But they're as the word say, not maxed out in both strenght and endurance.
It's two things that cannot be done
my name is nobody No I meant the word hubris. As in, being so up your own ass that you think that one of the most renowned strength coaches in the world doesn't know what a type 2b muscle fiber is.
@@AcceleratingUniverse does the name idiot meam anything to you?
It does not matter at all what you say, the fact is that Mr Rippetoe does not understand that laying bricks all day is an endurance activity. Every single day.
Strenght and endurance doesn't mix.
You can be a hybrid, a strenght athlete or endruance athlete. You can never max out on both.
And starting strenght program is not going to help endruance athletes or bricklayers.
Thats why no endurance coaches in the world use Mr Rippetoes program.
Any endruance coach in the world would say that no matter what you think.
Barbell exercises are certainly beneficial to everyone.
In the correct ratio.
And Mr Rippetoe is certainly an expert in explaining how to execute them properly.
But when it comes to trying to sell his starting strenght program, which wad intended for powerlifters. To endurance athletes or bricklayers. He is on thin ice. You too i bet
@@AcceleratingUniverse let me quote what Rippetoe said.
A stronger deadlift is going to make it easier for the bricklayer to to lift 80 pounds of bricks. Sure! But it's not that simple at all! First of all you never lift 80 pounds of bricks at the time as a bricklayer. We got tools for that for taking a row of bricks at the time. And thats only very very little time during the workday. The rest of the day a bricklayer stands bendover. Very taxing for the upperbody/ower back and its very much an endruance activity. Especially since its every day the same.
That's why i mentioned that about muscle fibres. He doesn't even know the difference between a labourer or a bricklayer as he himself said "whatever the hell the labourer does" that's two different things and he know very little to nothing about those activities .
Now it will still help the bricklayer to deadlift. To protect the spine. I agree! To a certain point!
But it's not a case of the more the better. It's going to impede recovery and interference with the muscle fibres.
Also Mr Rippetoe litterally made a video of why you shouldn't run.
And yet he's trying to sell his program here to endurance athletes and bricklayers.
Can't you see he just wants to sell books? And thats fine but I'm here, as others that now just a little bit about endruance, that it's bullshit to train starting strenght 3 times a week for a endurance athlete.
Use another program for that.
That being said, if i should I'd still train in Mr Rippetoes gym if i could. Expert spotter and at explaining how to correctly execute the exercises.
The main reason strength training isn't good for cycling is because cycling utilises mostly type 1 muscle fibres. Barbell training and a strength program will increase the strength of your type 2 muscle fibres. Thus the benefits of strength training do not outweigh the negatives (weight gain) in regards to cycling.
+1
Wow!!! No words. Obviously doesn't really know the strength of cyclists & runners. Dislike.
I think the cyclist will spend the first two weeks overcoming DOMS and perfecting form. The lower back and adductors will be weak. Rip is confident the squat will increase by 100lbs in 6 weeks. I think this is a dangerous approach.
lol..cyclists got butthurt! they haven't heard about periodization... ''Me ridee my bikee hard everyday!'' Close your mouths when you breathe and leave the thinking and the ''ratios'' to the pros! #notall .. track cyclists and up to 1500m runners squat like bosses