Barbells vs. Machines vs. Everything Else (Audio Only)
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- Опубліковано 6 бер 2017
- Mark Rippetoe reads his article on the efficacy and reason for barbell training, especially when compared to machines and other forms of exercise.
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Listening to a man talk about barbell training has never been so calming :-)
And deep, he makes everything crystal clear
Therapeutic reinforcement of physical strength theory and practice.
Trueee
I'll put this as my phone's ringtone. If you call me don't wonder if I let it ring 23 minutes before answering 😁
In 2013, I trained for a Tough Mudder for a year. I ran and used machines and dieted enough that I lost about 100 lbs. And I never gained any strength. I'm now 3 weeks into linear progression as a novice on the Starting Strength program. My squat is up 70 lbs, my press is up 25 lbs and my deadlift is up 60 lbs as a 48 year old man. Barbells are the ONLY way to go for me.
Agreed. I'm 48 too. I did a body part fluff and pump bro split for many years and jogged like their is no tomorrow. For the past year ive been doing a barbell only heavy compound routine with fantastic results. Bench Press, overhead press, deadlifts, rows, squats,weighted Dips and Weighted Pull ups with more frequency and I have gotten more muscular,leaner and stronger than doing all that machine,isolation ,fluff and pump gay bodybuilding shit for years. This is a great channel!!!
@@sosuapimp8449 body building for the gay boys haha
You were doing something terribly wrong
He had me at gains
This is the best by far podcast on Barbell training by Rip I've heard thus far. I've listened over 20+ times and will continue to over and over again.
Gay
I agree.
Just on 1st listen but clarified what I'm trying to achieve.
So simple it makes my head hurt.
Time to read his book.
I'll come back to you after my 10+ listen.
I love this! good information with the right amount of good humor
I agree with this 100%. If the goal is to increase strength then barbells ARE the best training implement. This is NON NEGOTIABLE.
Dumbells work pretty good...
@Deku I guess do what works for you, but there are a lot of oddball stuff Jeff adds to those routines that aren't even worth doing. Basically, a bunch of people who don't know how to lift think he's an amazing coach.
I can take one look at his plans and find at least one exercise in them that is some hokey BS. I question anyone who says his programming is good and will challenge them on all kinds of exercises he is recommending.
@Deku High exercise selection is not a relevant variable in strength training. The fact that AthleanX teaches lots of different wacky exercises is not a feature of effective training. It's simply a marketing tool.
For long term progress, you need a simple selection of barbell exercises with progressive loading. Doing random fancy exercises helps with nothing.
@Deku
Yes that is true. You use variations when they are necessary to reinforce certain aspects of your basic lifts. They serve specific purposes.
But doing new exercises simply for the sake of doing new exercises is not conducive to strength progress. That's just aimless exercising, not training.
@@ensnaredbyflesh1030 but...but muscle confusion!😂
I just started power cleans, and am fucking them up 2/3 of the time.
I asked two other guys in the gym if they knew how to power clean.
One guy said no, but that I should search UA-cam.
The other guy gave me an incredulous stare and asked if 'power clean' was some sort of Cross Fit exercise.
Guess I'll be searching UA-cam.
Lul Llipop a "trainer/coach" at my gym asked me what that exercise does and what it is called.... I did powercleans. Great coaching team😑
Lul Llipop lol I've been power-cleaning since 7th grade. It's really something you're gonna have to learn over time man, I remember NONE of us knew how to do it very well until like a year and half in😂😂😂
Keep on. Focus on the basics for every single rep: arms straight when you pull and think hard about getting the bar on top of your delts with your elbows pointing forward. Eventually you'll do them right.
Protip #1: Don't try to learn how to power clean with an empty bar only. You absolutely need to add a moderately challenging weight to get it right.
Protip #2: If you fail to get the bar on your shoulders more often than not, you're using too much weight.
Protip #3: Use the hook grip. I shit you not the bar feels lighter and easier to clean.
Power cleans are tough. Ive been working on them 4-6 months and finally am getting them down. Lots of study and filming myself.
I power clean my toilet when it's dirty.
Gyms tend to have 1 thing in common: No one on the "nautilus" machines. Everyone's on treadmills & ellipticals.
Thank you.so much for sharing
Rip's voice is so soothing
Yeah. We need a Rip does Hamlet episode. To be, or not to be STRONG, that is the question.
what a gem
6:21
I just about choked to death on my coffee at this point.
yo momma so strong she starts with a non-empty bar
That's the ring tone.
there is nothing to learn but adjusting the seat height XDD.
a great critical sentence.
This is the Way!! SS 4 Life 💪🏻
The dude is essential listening for any adult human.
Barbells...... Do it.
Rip is now catering knowledge to people who don't want to read...
Are you never busy enough to ever put a book down or something? I listen to Rip whenever I'm doing housework. It's efficient.
Nah, I don't go to no stinking gym. I do bar bell exercises with my rusty Olympic plates and barbell I bought back in 1988 from Sears. My gym is out side so sometimes it's 30 degrees out and other times it's 90 degrees. So far I'm 57 and I bench press 400 lbs and overhead press 275 lbs and limit my max to 400 lbs on all others since I'm an old man and I do not want to get injured. There is no replacement for cold steal in your hands. I also use zero equipment. No gloves, no belts, no straps, etc...
How long have you been training with barbells
Facts
First read this on Art of Manliness, like over six years ago.
For lower body, barbells are king. But there's isn't an intrinsic advantage for barbells over dumbells for building upper body strength. I'm talking primarily pressing, rowing and curling exercises. Dumbells allow more grip/angle variety, increased range of motion and more stabilizers muscles are involved.
It has the same advantage for upper and lower. He is saying it provides a maximum between recruitment of muscle groups and ability to load on weight.
You use more secondary muscles with dumbells, but cannot load as much weight, and the trade-off doesn't present an advantage for exercise.
Unless your sport is dumbells itself, or happens to involve some movement that is very similar to the dumbell movement, your calories and recovery time are better spent on barbell movements.
would like to see a video about marks take on machines like the reverse hyper and the pit shark (belt squat) that seem to be used by strongmen and powerlifters..............................................
fantastic summary of the world fucking up,
What about gymnastics rings versus barbell training ? Only for upper body .
All opinions are welcomed
I do both. There is no reason to do only one of those.
Barbells do work and are way better than machines but I am not sure if Barbells are better than flywheel training. Or if a combination of barbell/flywheel and machines is the key. But I am 99% sure that the only thing that really matters is that your training is based on the main lifts squat, deadlift, benchpress, military press and some kind of rowing. Flywheels just offers more options, barbells are simpler...
born2sail, I think the problem with most people when they attempt to listen to Mark Ripptoe is they do not fundamentally get a understanding of his core philosophy. Mark speaks about strength development via barbell training as a foundation method that will benefit all physically capable individuals on all levels. He does not tell people not to vary there exercise selection... using machine weights as supplementary work to barbell training is smart. But barbell training is important for what we do daily.... barbell training or free weights promote healthy muscles, healthy joints and healthy connective tissue, which are hallmarks of a healthy overall body.
This is correct. However, it assumes that the overriding priority is to gain as much strength and/or muscle per week as possible. This is true for a lot of people. It is probably true for most of Starting Strength's target market.
On the other hand, we also live in a world where gym memberships and good coaching cost money, gyms usually contain other people, and home fitness equipment costs money and takes up space, and different people have different priorities.
Things like adjustable dumbbells, power towers, doorway pullup bars, dip belts, and portable dip stations can be used to construct a full body resistance program based on progressive overload and compound strength exercises.
Such a program will cause the user to become stronger. The user will become stronger more slowly than if they used barbells, and will hit a ceiling at a lower level of strength. They also will not have to pay gym memberships or go to a gym, and will spend less money and fewer square feet of their home or apartment than someone who purchases a barbell, plates and a squat rack. The movements will also generally be easier for them to perform correctly without training.
This is probably not terribly relevant to what Mr. Rippetoe is trying to do or sell, but it probably merits an honorable mention under "vs. everything else," particularly given the general persuasive argument rule of "address the strongest points of the contrary position."
so im not sure, is barbell training a good thing or...?
dumbbells rule!
Welcome to Fred "S-L-O-W Burn" Hahn's Nightmare.
The Geometry of Strength.
So if a barbell is superior because of ergonomics and being able to line it up with the center point of balance. Wouldn't a hex bar he superior for deadlifts and squats if that's the case?
He did a video on that as well. His answer was essentially “no”
lol 300quadrillion with 12 peices a time
Machines work well for bodybuilders. Because while barbells work the entire set of muscles that control a certain movement they often don't stress some of those muscles to the same degree and usually the primary movers do most of the work. This is a great practice for strength training. But bodybuilders aren't primarily focused in getting stronger. That's why they've developed this 'hack' of sorts which still allows them to provide the muscles with external resistance cause them to fatigue but without training the balance, coordination and nervous system. Because once again they are focused on developing one quality. So for a bodybuilder it would be much more practical to do bicep curls and extensions on machines than doing overhead presses and pull ups to build bigger arms.
Delusional
@@93rwolf🤓
they found a hack i.e steroids, Some dont need to find a hack i,e, genetics, rest even with bunch of steriods dont get to top 10
I have to say, after squats, I go to the leg press to exhaust myself b/c I'm not willing to go to failure w/ the squat, so I'm not exhausted. I'm willing to go to failure w/ the Press, Bench Press, Deadlift, and barbell row, but not the squat, so I need an exercise I can spot myself on, like the leg press or hack squat, if I want maximum growth. I definitely have a better squat when I augment squats w/ leg press or hack squats.
Ever try squats in the rack? Set the pins to catch a failed rep.
Wooooooosauu
I think a lot of machines are good for bodybuilding isolation exercises.
Fahves
I would largely agree other than for vertical pull for which barbells are really not that useful.
@@vicobosa He meant from overhead.
@@vicobosa Barbell row is horizontal
@@vicobosa Bro, its all relative to the torso. Therefore a barbell row is a horizontal row. Arms go back behind you. A lat pull down/pull up/chin up is vertical. Barbell row is not
Sure, machines may get you stronger and bigger. They can be good for bodybuilders trying to isolate muscle groups for aesthetic reasons, or if you have an injury. But they will never be AS effective at getting you big and strong as barbells, far from it.
but can I use barbell training to increase my ability to play poker?
yes
Of course, it gives you a stronger hand.
but Rip what about....... oh nevermind.
Nice vid brother ! I only ever use barbell , An only compound moves ie dls , squat , overhead press an bench ! That's all yer need unless you are a freaky bodybuilder on copious amounts of steroids !
So I get why barbells are the best way to increase strengh, but I haven't heard or seen rip speak/write about strongman movements unless I've missed something in the book. His arguments does not cover why strongman movements, specificly yoke walks and farmer/frame walks, is not incorporated in the program. Both of these movements are functional, you can apply alot of weight, and multiple joints are working. Understandeble is that most people dont have acces to this equipment, but that is not an argument I've seen rip make, unless of course i missed it.
They are not necessary as you are working your whole body with movements that are more effective. Of course they work your whole body, but the range of motion is tiny compared to the Squat + DL + Press. Rip sometimes states that: Farmers walks and the like are an Expression of strength. Training them will improve your skills and make you better at doing these movements. Strongmen like Brian Alsruhe or Alan Thrall also share that opinion.
The yoke will primarily train your stability, rather than your pull. but the deadlift will train back and core thus allowing more weight for the yoke. the deadlift also trains your forearms so no need to do farmers walks if your not a strongman, as it is only going tomake your programming more complicated, as you want to avoid fatiguing.
Heard him speak about it in interviews, also ask rip series, iirc.
Martin Sæbye Carøe I would say it's because they're not necessary as a beginner, only really necessary if you wanna compete as a strong man, and requires special equipment not easily found in gyms (even a good rack seems hard to find)
If you read starting strengh, you can see that Mark use them as assitance exercise and also are many types of strengh: endurance-strengh, velocity-strengh aka explossivite, max strengh in the 3 types of contraction (eccentric, isometric, concentric). Now, because farmer walk are isometric contraction, it doesnt improve concentric contraction so for a athletic performance view, it doesnt work.
Here's an idea,why not use the common sense machine!
Barbell training gets you ready for those strongman movements
Look at some of the marble statues from ancient times. They have some yoked ole dudes. I wonder what program they were doing.
Keep picking up and pressing a bull from it's infancy to old age. Ancient linear progression baby. Praise be Zeus
Hectares which are a primitive form of dumbbell were found to be used in Ancient Greece
@@drone124 Did you seriously write "hectares" instead of "halteres," you absolute moron?
Yes all correct and I don't use machines they are a f*cking joke *BUT* !!!! from a bodybuilding perspective they do make sense since the goal is not to get stronger overall but to just increase muscle size...
great video Mark, and just confirms my beliefs that machines are useless for the most part and just caters to the lazy masses.
I think this misses the point of functional training; it’s not to get strong. It’s to get coordinated. People can be strong, but not coordinated, or not used to using their strength in various dynamic ranges. So their strength is not fully practical.
first
So many dumb gym programs and misinformation, but that's okay. Stay weak guys, I'll be lifting barbells. :D
Progressively weighted dips, chin ups & push ups are as good as any upper body barbell movement.
Charlie, you can progressively overload with dips, chin ups and push ups, but the problem is with these exercises; they all have a finite ceiling. Barbell progression will occur longer than these exercises, therefore these are not foundation strength exercises; yet they are supplementary exercises. I have use all of these exercises in conjunction with my barbell deadlift, overhead press, and bench press.
This guy dips over 120kg
They do have a finite ceiling, but it's a finite ceiling that isn't really relevant to the fitness goals of most human beings, especially in the short to medium term.
If you're doing dips with a belt and you're having trouble adding more weight to the belt, you should absolutely start bench pressing instead. But "I'll cross that bridge when I come to it" also seems like a reasonable approach to that problem.
Ever do squats and fallen with a 300 lb barbell on your shoulders? Felt what it's like to have that much weight compress your spine as it comes crashing down? I have. Happened so fast I didn't know what happened. So after using barbells for 48 years, I found a much better tool than a barbell - but you will have to find out on your own - I can tell by your staunch position on barbells that you won't believe me.
What have you found
So did you have the safety pins at the correct level?
@@DackDavenport there were no safety pins, I stepped back from a squat rack
"Hell ur mom is stronger than that from having picked up ur ungrateful ass off the floor all those years"
I would rather have a rack full of dumbbells, then a barrell, then bodyweight.
And that's why you'll never be strong
Depends how heavy that barrel is. Donkey Kong was a beast!
Bullshit! anything works. bodyweight, freeweights, machines it don't matter as long as it's intense and progressive.
Can you dumbell press the same amount of weight as you bench press?
Yes the other pieces of equipment work. but the user has to want to use progression..
Most machines don't work the core, unless it is a core working machine.
When you stand and do presses and dead lifts as an example. The core is working to stabilize the body.
Barbells can be loaded heavy.
Most gyms don't have dumbbells that go higher than 100lbs. So loading ends at that weight.
You did not pay attention. Machines do not work because they do not necessitate stability, which is a necessary condition for strength. People who do leg press and don't squat will have a weak squat. But people who just squat will automatically have a strong leg press, because the squat requires stability and the leg press doesn't.
This is about strengthening the body, not simply working isolated muscles in a fixed movement pattern, which is all that machines do.
As for body weight: body weight will only get you so far because you will reach a point at which additional reps will yield marginally lower returns in strength. To create sustainable long term strength gains, you need loading potential, which is what barbells are for.
Let the idiots remain mediocre
Only Barbells and fahves. Or you have a micropenis.
There are other fitness goals besides strength however..
He didn't claim otherwise in this reading.
Are 4 basic aspect of the neuromuscular system: flexibility/mobility, strengh, speed and coordination. Speed doenst improve because is absoluty genetic. Beside coordination, strengh and mobility improve together with barbell training because doing any movement that you dont have full rage of motion and trying to reach both extreme improve your rage of motion. For strengh is obvious. Just watch olimpic weightlifters and you see that the have extreme mobility and they dont static strech all day.
@@rajinfootonchuriquen Let the plebs be mediocre forever
Crosshit anyone?
CrossFit is shit
Isn't Calisthenics cheaper than barbell training? That shit's literally free, meanwhile a decent barbell alone would cost you over $100 today...
No where near as effective to.make you actually stronger, unless you are one of those outliers, like Hershel Walker-- and he could have been considerably stronger than he was if he lifted.
Then go to a gym if you can then if you can’t then find ways