When he showed the chart of tournament viable characters and when they can execute frame 1 gravity, I was expecting it to just be Fox across the columns haha
You can watch this demonstrated by PPMD vs M2K, where they were both spamming nair on Marth while waiting for stage to transform, and PPMD was very noticably faster, likely because he was inputting nair on frame 1.
@@master_productions Aight I'm gonna give up searching. I remember the crowd started cheering when the commentator pointed out that he was winning the nair spam duel. It stands out to me because it started out as a cheeky stalling/waiting thing and it turned into something pretty hype. Totally possible I have the matchup wrong, cuz my search is not coming up with any sets.
M2K told me about this in more general terms during friendlies like 4 or 5 years ago and I’ve been obsessing over it ever since. Great video Hax this is sick.
"In this video, I will be revealing what I consider to be the most important technique in Melee that nobody talks about. This technique is known as multishining, and is often overlo-"
@DiscoFalcon wanna beat Hax? Yeah that is too hard bud. Wanna have fun with friends and do cool combos on each other? Not too hard man, just a small tech skill curve.
Can Hax get the Melee OGs and retired gods together and start a Melee university already?my man has like 3 PHDs in this shit. Melee History by Samox & Scar Melee Stats by Tapho Theory of Melee Tech by Hax GC Controller Modding by Nez BOX Controllers by Hax Experimental & Applied Melee Tech by M2K Melee Trash talk by Waffles (in person) and Leffen (online) Melee sportmanship and mentality by Armada Yoshi theory by Amsa Melee promotion by Samox & Wife Melee Presentation by Slime Intensive Fox Course (Rotating professors determined by the winner of an annual Fox only tournament of retired players) Melee Distracks & The art of losing money matches by Chillin Applied TAS Theory by Practical TAS Smash Classics & 64 by Isai, Alvin, & SuperBOOMFAN (aka FalcoMaster3000) European Smash History by Amsah & Armada Japanese Smash History by Captain Jack & Amsa Melee Financial Advice by HBOX Making Emo Combo Videos by BBB Goals of targeted practice by PPMD and many more. If Melee had the funding and infrastructure of other Esports it could last a thousand years. edit: added more post your ideas below
How to ruin your smash career with childp0rn by Overtriforce (bonus course: how to keep anyone away within 10 feet of you by lowering your hygiene levels)
Applied Melee Tech Courses (sort of like a gym class) Mix ups and crossovers with mango Nuances of Dash dancing with ppmd and zain Aerial drift mastery with hbox Elective course: Breaking Targets with LinksDarkArrows and sockdude1
Interesting note to keep in mind for Fox players that I discovered a few years ago. If you frame 1 gravity full hop laser with fox, you will No Impact Land on Dreamland's side platforms. I believe it's the same actionable frame as a frame perfect waveland, but you'll look sick doing it, and it's a frame perfect input either way.
@@SansSeraph So I labbed this a little bit to find out more following your comment. If you jump, airdodge/land frame 14 which is the first frame from full hop that you can airdodge and land from, then the first actionable frame will be 24, whereas jump, laser frame 4 (frame 1 gravity), the NIL will be on frame 23, so the first actionable frame will also be 24. So it is the exact same, just the laser land is hella swag. However, if you fuck it up and laser just 1 frame late, the you'll land on frame 27 (with no fast fall), and the first actionable frame will be 31, which is disgustingly slow in comparison. If you were to fast fall on the first available frame (21) to compensate, you'll land on frame 22, making your first actionable frame 26. If, however, you fastfall when you get a Frame 1 Gravity laser on the first available frame (20), you'll land on frame 20 and your first actionable frame will still be 24 as it cancels out the NIL and just gives you normal landing lag, which is the same as NIL laser, except it doesn't look as sick. As far as I can tell, there is no way to make it faster than frame 24, you may be able to instant double jump frame perfect waveland at a specific angle to save a frame but idk if it's worth it at all. Wavelanding gives you the ability to react to where your opponent is teching, wheres laser landing does not, so that is also something to keep in mind, as well as the fact that if you mess it up by a frame, you will still be actionable on frame 25, which is still faster than the next laser option, and frame 26, which is equal to it. Obviously this all applies to dreamland only so is super specific and kinda useless, but it's cool to know I guess 🙃
@@night8002 I thought it was that they were different lengths, I didn't know they were different heights too. I done all my testing on the left hand side, however the laser land works on the right platform too. You can still react to the tech, I worded it quite poorly, what I meant was that you can react to the tech with the direction of your airdodge so that you are closer to them on the first actionable frame of the waveland, whereas with the laser land, you can only rely on aerial drift, which isn't as powerful. The reason you are not actionable sooner is because the airdodge forces you to stop your upward momentum and you will land frame 14, and go through normal airdodge end lag (frames 14-23). However for your ECB to be pulled up enough to laser land, it takes until frame 23 to land, so the actionable frame is still 24. Unfortunately fast falling to land sooner cancels the effect of the NIL and you go through 4 frames of normal landing lag as if from an empty jump. Hope that clarified a little bit, but I'll do some more testing on the right side when I get in from work.
@Reno Quichca yes they do, cause then they wouldn't be esports. a ton of games have things that happen on individual frames. The only reason it might matter more in melee is cause the frame rate is capped low
What a fucking well made and presented video. It's short, he speaks quickly so I don't feel stupid, he tells you what he's going to tell you, why it matters and then the thing. Followed up by stats, situations it is useful and then goes over methods for inputting this. You are a gift to the melee community.
I kinda like this because it gives a marginal reward to playing frame perfectly that doesn't break the game but allows those with the precision necessary to explore whole new avenues
i shffl by using the base of my right thumb to do a c stick aerial as quickly as possible after jumping. but im not very good at it since its not what my hands are used to, and its just weird
i noticed this a couple years ago using tap jump for sh nair with fox, is noticeable faster (2 frames according hax calculatons here), as hax said works really well with tap jump (i dont play fox but i starting to use more tap jump because is useful)
Funny enough, the only reason I knew this is because you won't make it to the platform with the first target if you do a nair on frame 1, which actomatically kills the run (though you're using full jump instead of short hop in that, but same application)
Alright a lot of things went through my mind watching this video 1. I love the original advanced how to play's references with the "you may want to pause the video" as well as white Falcon's combo on Marth on FD, as well as many other small details! 2. I just realized that there are tons of very important small details like this one that I know and never actually thought of explaining. Having made so many TASes in the past it actually never came to my mind that I could explain what I learned up until today.
Aziz, can you look at fast falling the pre-hitbox frames of up air to land faster?? I've never gotten around to TAS Melee but I think you will like this one if it lands faster. GL
hello, im a roy player that has all but given up on gitting gud at smash so in my stead im hoping you can git gud at what i wanted to--pivot ledge grabs. it is hard because the camera in smash is not fixed. so knowing your location near the edge is difficult. but i think u can do it hax. also pivot off platform/ledge aerials. dash dance into pivot tilts. perfect pivot spaced moves. i believe in u
i realized this subconsciously when i started playing melee, and immediately switched to claw, (right index on Y, right thumb for A and C stick) to get the fastest nairs/aerials possible. I feel like this claw config is the most optimal, no matter your character. the traditional Y to A travel time of just your thumb to perform an aerial puts you against a tremendous disadvantage against an opponent, you will see this often in a fox ditto when both players approach eachother with nair, the player with the more optimal nair will win the trade.
VimeosBetter Agreed, this is why when I started I immediately switched to master this ASAP. Took about one or two weeks to get used to it but it was well worth the effort imo
My man Hax could've cured cancer by now but he instead chooses to have a PhD in melee calculus
Xervelgarde LOOL
He just doesn’t want to lose...
Yup, he chose to do something comparatively meaningless with his time. Lols
@@uppercutgrandma4425 if there is no entertainment, living is useless, thus curing cancer is useless lmfao
Hax flexing his PhD in melee
I thought it was gonna be a L+R+A+Start Fox kinda thing
C falcon boxx for optimal speed pressing those
When he showed the chart of tournament viable characters and when they can execute frame 1 gravity, I was expecting it to just be Fox across the columns haha
It was a 50/50
"frame 1 gravity"
f1g
i hereby dub these fig aerials
Fig gang
Big agree
My figgas
I prefer FOG
@@gerudokupo2225 shit that might be better
You can watch this demonstrated by PPMD vs M2K, where they were both spamming nair on Marth while waiting for stage to transform, and PPMD was very noticably faster, likely because he was inputting nair on frame 1.
Which set?
Bump. I wanna see this
Yo I wanna see this too
@@master_productions Aight I'm gonna give up searching. I remember the crowd started cheering when the commentator pointed out that he was winning the nair spam duel. It stands out to me because it started out as a cheeky stalling/waiting thing and it turned into something pretty hype. Totally possible I have the matchup wrong, cuz my search is not coming up with any sets.
Mystery _ Yeah they actually never played in 2015-2016. Maybe it was marth dittos but with a different combination of players.
Every samus main that ever practiced ESAM missiles: "yep, that's a thing"
exactly my thoughts
Every samus player and DJ Nintendo: hahah yuuuup that’s a thing
Can confirm, i've known this for a long time.
M2K told me about this in more general terms during friendlies like 4 or 5 years ago and I’ve been obsessing over it ever since. Great video Hax this is sick.
As soon as the video ended the image of M2K excitedly explaining immediately it flashed through my head lol
What a dope guy.
You mean melee or the frame 1 gravity technic
dude wtf m2k told me too
@@jonathanl3068 lmfao m2k just loves spouting the contents of this vid doesn't he, what do we even need hax for
Hax's voice belongs on National Geographic documentary
Ideally an episode about Foxes
Not an episode about Falcons? :,(
Oh my god. the thought of nairing oos with sheik and more consistently hitting them with it is making me salivate
Its making me tremble in fear
@@deafbyhiphop same. sheik is bad but hes lame
@@pIayingwithmahwii she* dont know if it was a typo
@@mog5326 sheik is a man
@@pIayingwithmahwii no ^^ sheik is zelda disguised as a shiekah
"In this video, I will be revealing what I consider to be the most important technique in Melee that nobody talks about.
This technique is known as multishining, and is often overlo-"
“This statistic is called, gravity”
Glad I half claw with X
Hey look, it's ssbu hax$. You guys should collaborate
Gims always wins
@DiscoFalcon wanna beat Hax? Yeah that is too hard bud. Wanna have fun with friends and do cool combos on each other? Not too hard man, just a small tech skill curve.
@@Mannydude96 I wouldn't call it small, especially when coming from any other smash game.
@@namenamename390 I would c:
Can Hax get the Melee OGs and retired gods together and start a Melee university already?my man has like 3 PHDs in this shit.
Melee History by Samox & Scar
Melee Stats by Tapho
Theory of Melee Tech by Hax
GC Controller Modding by Nez
BOX Controllers by Hax
Experimental & Applied Melee Tech by M2K
Melee Trash talk by Waffles (in person) and Leffen (online)
Melee sportmanship and mentality by Armada
Yoshi theory by Amsa
Melee promotion by Samox & Wife
Melee Presentation by Slime
Intensive Fox Course (Rotating professors determined by the winner of an annual Fox only tournament of retired players)
Melee Distracks & The art of losing money matches by Chillin
Applied TAS Theory by Practical TAS
Smash Classics & 64 by Isai, Alvin, & SuperBOOMFAN (aka FalcoMaster3000)
European Smash History by Amsah & Armada
Japanese Smash History by Captain Jack & Amsa
Melee Financial Advice by HBOX
Making Emo Combo Videos by BBB
Goals of targeted practice by PPMD
and many more. If Melee had the funding and infrastructure of other Esports it could last a thousand years.
edit: added more post your ideas below
how to go out like a buster by mang0
How to ruin your smash career with childp0rn by Overtriforce (bonus course: how to keep anyone away within 10 feet of you by lowering your hygiene levels)
fuckk this would be good
Ken’s the principal
Applied Melee Tech Courses (sort of like a gym class)
Mix ups and crossovers with mango
Nuances of Dash dancing with ppmd and zain
Aerial drift mastery with hbox
Elective course: Breaking Targets with LinksDarkArrows and sockdude1
Interesting note to keep in mind for Fox players that I discovered a few years ago. If you frame 1 gravity full hop laser with fox, you will No Impact Land on Dreamland's side platforms. I believe it's the same actionable frame as a frame perfect waveland, but you'll look sick doing it, and it's a frame perfect input either way.
if its a NIL, and youre doing it from frame 1 gravity, its probably like 3-6 frames faster.
@@SansSeraph So I labbed this a little bit to find out more following your comment.
If you jump, airdodge/land frame 14 which is the first frame from full hop that you can airdodge and land from, then the first actionable frame will be 24, whereas jump, laser frame 4 (frame 1 gravity), the NIL will be on frame 23, so the first actionable frame will also be 24. So it is the exact same, just the laser land is hella swag. However, if you fuck it up and laser just 1 frame late, the you'll land on frame 27 (with no fast fall), and the first actionable frame will be 31, which is disgustingly slow in comparison. If you were to fast fall on the first available frame (21) to compensate, you'll land on frame 22, making your first actionable frame 26. If, however, you fastfall when you get a Frame 1 Gravity laser on the first available frame (20), you'll land on frame 20 and your first actionable frame will still be 24 as it cancels out the NIL and just gives you normal landing lag, which is the same as NIL laser, except it doesn't look as sick. As far as I can tell, there is no way to make it faster than frame 24, you may be able to instant double jump frame perfect waveland at a specific angle to save a frame but idk if it's worth it at all.
Wavelanding gives you the ability to react to where your opponent is teching, wheres laser landing does not, so that is also something to keep in mind, as well as the fact that if you mess it up by a frame, you will still be actionable on frame 25, which is still faster than the next laser option, and frame 26, which is equal to it.
Obviously this all applies to dreamland only so is super specific and kinda useless, but it's cool to know I guess 🙃
how does a laser land not allow you to react to a tech if you're actionable sooner?
also, did you test this on both sides? one platform is higher
@@night8002 I thought it was that they were different lengths, I didn't know they were different heights too. I done all my testing on the left hand side, however the laser land works on the right platform too.
You can still react to the tech, I worded it quite poorly, what I meant was that you can react to the tech with the direction of your airdodge so that you are closer to them on the first actionable frame of the waveland, whereas with the laser land, you can only rely on aerial drift, which isn't as powerful.
The reason you are not actionable sooner is because the airdodge forces you to stop your upward momentum and you will land frame 14, and go through normal airdodge end lag (frames 14-23). However for your ECB to be pulled up enough to laser land, it takes until frame 23 to land, so the actionable frame is still 24. Unfortunately fast falling to land sooner cancels the effect of the NIL and you go through 4 frames of normal landing lag as if from an empty jump.
Hope that clarified a little bit, but I'll do some more testing on the right side when I get in from work.
@@OMGwtgfhgg they're the same height, just different lengths like you said
Hax$ even has the most technical intellect
Hax$ could be successful in any field and he chose melee thats sick
Welcome to melee where 1 frame makes a huge difference
That's every esport
@Reno Quichca yes they do, cause then they wouldn't be esports. a ton of games have things that happen on individual frames. The only reason it might matter more in melee is cause the frame rate is capped low
ahmost 22 frame rate is 60 fps, like every fighting game
Hax fucking money changing Melee one miracle at a time baby.
People were talking about this in the early 2010's. PP made several posts in his threads for example.
2:00
Being a Luigi main, feelsbadman.jpg
1:54 people always gotta do the docs dirty
come on doc mains WE NEED TO RISE
There are DOZENS of us!
Dope video; I remember hearing about this a while back because falco full hop doesn’t reach bf top plat if you input your aerial or laser too early
was about to make this comment, remembered you were literally the one who taught this to me, scanned comments and behold dad is here
hi blitz
What a fucking well made and presented video. It's short, he speaks quickly so I don't feel stupid, he tells you what he's going to tell you, why it matters and then the thing. Followed up by stats, situations it is useful and then goes over methods for inputting this.
You are a gift to the melee community.
"Melee Content"
na bruh I subscribe for Hax$ content
I was expecting a "just full hop guys" joke then it dawned on me that of course Hax is going to say 20XX
Frame 9-11 huh?
I knew you still love Melee Hell
Melee in 2020 is about to be unreal
Tap jump life!
Easy short hops if you quarter circle from up to forward/back
I kinda like this because it gives a marginal reward to playing frame perfectly that doesn't break the game but allows those with the precision necessary to explore whole new avenues
Bruh I don’t even play this game why am I watching this
POG
*FoG
phrame one gravity
5:50 spidey controller pog
"with all the tournament viable characters" doc mains: am I a joke to you?
Sweet video. I thought you were going to talk about the benefits of fasfalling before the aerial as well.
Hax plays melee like alpha zero would
Hax$ with the ytc videos poppin out. I'm used to seeing a video every 6 months.
I always have complained about Fox's nair. It's so easy to do and free, it barely have risk
Gahtzu method also works for instant upairs
This dude talking about timing ur buffer and stuff on specific FRAMES lmao
That's FGC for ya
Why does this remind me of the bus for frame rules in super mario bros
"tournament viable"
Put some respect on Kirby name
Quality content keep it up Hax$
10 seconds in and I'm hit in the Wak's Advanced How to Play SSBM feels
between these astute videos and Zain’s shitposts, quarantine is a whole lot comfier. Thank you Hax
Another good concept dug up from the Smashboards graveyard, and nicely edited in video form. Good job!
For real this is what separates the top level from the casuals at least tech wise
I have never heard Hax speak
Hax must have been tore in the inside when he had to say "tournament viable characters" followed by a graph starting with Falcon
"Is entry level"
What level am i then?
I thought this would be about ledgedash, but I was in for a pleasant surprise.
Me: Spends 15 hours in a training iso hack for the game perfecting my 1 frame gravity tech for tournament.
Also me: Dash attacks a planking puff.
Bro it's crazy to me how people are still discovering new tech in melee. This game is insane
i shffl by using the base of my right thumb to do a c stick aerial as quickly as possible after jumping. but im not very good at it since its not what my hands are used to, and its just weird
is this basically instant aerials but explained with the function of gravity?
This is amazing! I can’t believe people are still learning new things about melee when it is almost a 19 year old game.
Of course Falcon Punch can use this technique.
s2g this man could talk abt anything and id listen
KEEP. THESE. COMING.
Haxx man, why the hell are you so interesting to listen too : )
Please do not stop these videos , they are awesome !
i noticed this a couple years ago using tap jump for sh nair with fox, is noticeable faster (2 frames according hax calculatons here), as hax said works really well with tap jump (i dont play fox but i starting to use more tap jump because is useful)
Have you ever been gifted a frame in your adult life? This is exactly how that feels.
A quest? I'm already on a quest
Funny enough, the only reason I knew this is because you won't make it to the platform with the first target if you do a nair on frame 1, which actomatically kills the run (though you're using full jump instead of short hop in that, but same application)
Bold of you to assume I can time any frame perfect input at all
I already jump with the analog stick and aerial with the c stick so this is great news
The day of Samus has come
Hax our here making some actual high quality Melee content
Good to know that I can frame 1 gravity fast fall falcon punch
Noticed I couldn't cover BF top plat with falco fullhop Nair if I was frame perfect (z aerials) but did land on plat if I was a frame late
"No matter which character you play" ... Even Luigi?
Pink falcon in thumbnail: I click
(Noob question) Can I do this by pushing x and a both with my thumb? Like the tip of my thumb on X and the joint hitting A?
Yes but doing so makes it hard to short hop. I roll from Y to A much like the motion for a a falco shine oos
Well that deserves a sub
1 minute into this and all I can think is
"This guy's DEFINITELY trying to sell me something" 😂
full hop no fastfall no L cancel, never seen before in tournament and therefore has no counterplay
So basically... shffl, but ｆａｓｔｅｒ.
Pretty neat! Thanks for posting this!
Frame 1 gravity? Might I suggest the acronym, fog
Alright a lot of things went through my mind watching this video
1. I love the original advanced how to play's references with the "you may want to pause the video" as well as white Falcon's combo on Marth on FD, as well as many other small details!
2. I just realized that there are tons of very important small details like this one that I know and never actually thought of explaining. Having made so many TASes in the past it actually never came to my mind that I could explain what I learned up until today.
Captain Falcon is viable guys!!! he said it 1:58
Knew about this because if you do a move frame one with falcos full hop you can’t reach the top battlefield platform
Imagine shortening Puff's name to Jiggs
3:51 "Every aerial in the game" *low/mid tiers aren't in the game anymore*
P sure kjh talked about this last year.
Frame one Aerials keep you lower to the ground
Aziz, can you look at fast falling the pre-hitbox frames of up air to land faster?? I've never gotten around to TAS Melee but I think you will like this one if it lands faster.
GL
hello, im a roy player that has all but given up on gitting gud at smash
so in my stead im hoping you can git gud at what i wanted to--pivot ledge grabs. it is hard because the camera in smash is not fixed. so knowing your location near the edge is difficult. but i think u can do it hax. also pivot off platform/ledge aerials. dash dance into pivot tilts. perfect pivot spaced moves. i believe in u
This is the kind of Melee content I live for. You and Asumsaus are so good with this type of analysis.
Frame One Gravity = FOG
Fogchamp
20 years later still finding new shit in melee
Subbed for the melee content, stayed for the voice🙌
BACK IN MY DAY THESE WERE CALLED SHFFL RISING AIRIELS
My hands hurt just watching this
Mine too
What if you could fast fall while rising from a short hop or full hop... Gonna look for someone to mod that right now lol
Love the content Hax
Video is Godlike. Appreciate you Hax Phucking money
Best alternative is... to use a B0XX. This video sponsored by B0XX. LMFAO
i wish this video was longer
i realized this subconsciously when i started playing melee, and immediately switched to claw, (right index on Y, right thumb for A and C stick) to get the fastest nairs/aerials possible. I feel like this claw config is the most optimal, no matter your character. the traditional Y to A travel time of just your thumb to perform an aerial puts you against a tremendous disadvantage against an opponent, you will see this often in a fox ditto when both players approach eachother with nair, the player with the more optimal nair will win the trade.
VimeosBetter
Agreed, this is why when I started I immediately switched to master this ASAP. Took about one or two weeks to get used to it but it was well worth the effort imo
I bet a lot of the quicker players already do this without being aware of it.
Hax Money does it again
still cant short hop super consistent