Do Modern Motorcycles Have TOO MUCH TECH?
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
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Modern motorcycle are amazing. They're fast, they handle great, and they're all super reliable. But, are we over reliant on technology? Is there too much tech on modern motorcycles?
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I have to say, I think I've settle on two requirements, fuel injection and ABS with disc brakes all around. That's my minimum and really my maximum requirement.
And cruise control. It's the only reason I haven't bought a Ducati Supersport.
I've been spoiled with cruise control! Abs is optional.
I’m with you. For me I add a couple of if/then requirements.
IF ride by wire, THEN it must have cruise (but I will go ride 500+ mile days for a couple of weeks where that would make a difference).
Also IF we have a big honking TFT, THEN I would expect Apple CarPlay.
But I’m very ok having a bike without TFT, without ride by wire.
I just want modern reliable go tech and stop tech.
Not messing with carburetors is probably the most important innovation we've had
@TerraMagnus I like the idea of proper cruise control, but I'd forgo it for a throttle cable. I feel like you can trust a physical cable more than software. It's the same reason I use a tethered airbag jacket. I don't care how much testing the sensors and software has, it just takes one bad fault at the right time to kill me. On the other hand, 60lbs of force will always rip open a CO2 tank
I believe riding an older bike with no modern tech makes you a better rider as you're not dependent on things like ABS, TC, and CC. The weakest link is the nut on the handlebars and you become better in tune with the bikes and your limitations. That said, as I've gotten older (51) I've traded up into bikes with more tech for the convenience, ease of use and comfort and am happier with the change, especially on longer rides where changing weather and fatigue are major factors for comfort and safety.
I like having it but with the option to turn it off. A lot of problems you can have is just chance, other bad drivers, things/fluids falling off cars/trucks, stuff on the street mid corner. In those cases I want as many tools I can get because the hospital cost way more than the aids do.
I feel like for newer riders (like myself) or somewhat experienced riders who are getting into higher power motorcycles for the first time the rider aids are definitely a welcome addition because you can learn how to handle the power and control the bike with the rider aids first and then slowly turn them down bit by bit if you want to, that way you can also feel where the assists kick in so you know you've made a mistake but without any major consequences. That being said there's plenty of riders more experienced than me who have said that some of these aids have saved them from crashing, just like how there's some who have blamed them for their crashes.
You're definitely not wrong in saying that a motorcycle with no electronic aids makes a better rider in the sense that they have to be more aware of everything they're doing. But generally on the street the extra help is more than welcome because you can focus more on the road and other road users
Agree 100%
I'll disagree. "Better rider" being completely subjective means nothing. Limitations... limits are safer found on a bike with the tech than without.
In terms of performance riding, the faster riders ride closer to the limits. Q. How does someone "without the tech" find those limits? A. By crashing.
Q How does someone with the tech find those limits?
A. With the tech like traction control, slide control, lift control, ABS, ride modes, etc. those limits are where the tech steps in. A rider can turn all of them on and learn where the limits are with less risk to life and limb.
They can then gradually turn them down and later turn them off as they progress in developing their skills.
Yes and no. For things like ABS I consider them mandatory (even though I ride an older bike without one) because while braking without locking up your tires is easy in normal circumstances you cannot really practice for those "OH SHIT" panic moments. Maybe a little bit of that progressive brake pressure things is ingrained into your muscle memory over the years but most likely when the panic kicks in you grab a full handful of the lever and pull it with all your adrenaline fueled might. And then we either fall over when trying to turn with locked tires or flip the bike over the front wheel. ABS is a life saver in both.
TC is nice but not really necessary in normal bikes. I can see the need for it with squid missile bikes that have stupid amount of power, just to prevent idiots from flipping them over and killing themselves right at the bike shops front yard. Better to let them get a few miles of distance before they splat themselves against a tree.
Motorcycles are becoming software cycles. I watched a video of the new CF Moto 450 & it was 70% about the software & displays.
Motorbikes are becoming cars.... this new year is nothing but more tech... another wiz bang digital blaw blaw garbage....
Get a total enfield
Welcome to the 21st Century
My Suzuki GSX650F has no rider modes or ABS. If it is raining, you ride slower and smoother and brake gently earlier. If the roads are dry and not much traffic about , you can ride faster, brake later harder and lean the bike more in the twisties. The only rider aids you need are awareness, concentration and a full understanding of how to use your throttle, brakes , gears and of course, commonsense. That way of thinking has served me well since 1968. Why complicate bikes with masses of electronics ? All I want to do is enjoy riding my bike and be in control of it without electronics controlling the bike for me.
I kept my 2014 Ducati Streetfighter 848 because it’s basically an analog bike with the exception of traction control that can be turned off.
Pure riding that I love.
I’m the same way with my 12 R1, no need for ABS or cruise control or other needless tech.
As a 72 year old who sold my last motorcycle (a '88 Suzuki GSX1100F) about 2 years ago before retiring to the Philippines I'll admit that I've never once in my life ridden a bike with all this modern tech. I haven't even ridden one with Fuel Injection. The old bikes had character and people had to know how to ride and to be aware of what was going on around them a lot more in my opinion. I like the looks of some of the newer bikes, but to me anyhow nothing beats the looks of those from the early 80's. My favorite bike of all time was my new '83 CB1100F (Canadian Version) and I'd take another one of those over anything they build today.
Try a Yamaha MT-09. I've never liked the idea of tech but this bike has character in spades
@@razorix14 I have a 2014 Gen 1 MT09 and it has zero tech aside from fuel injection and I completely agree with you about the bike having tons of character. Much of it comes from the incredible triple engine. As more tech is added I think the comment made in the video about feeling "separated" from the bike is true. Even the newer MT's start to feel less direct. For instance the ABS brakes on the newer MT's feel far less connected and immediate than the non-ABS brakes. That said, ABS probably makes the bike much safer, especially in certain circumstance.
There's got to be a massive nostalgia factor here. I grew up learning on dirtbikes, so much of the fancy bits streetbikes have were nonexistent, even though I grew up in the early 2000's. Whereas back in the day there was a great deal of design variety and attempted solutions to various problems, now pretty much all of those problems are solved. It's just a question of who solves it more. We have great suspension and brakes, have abs almost standard on all mid-to-high displacement bikes with lean-sensitive abs on some of the nicer machines, phenomenal chassis' and power only tamed by electronics. All the attributes on older bikes considered "charming" today were some combination of "leading technology," "ineffective design choices," and/or "downright dangerous." But we appreciate those bikes for what they were/are and how they relate to the modern era, much like classic cars. It's hard to tell where the cutoff for "classic bike" and "modern bike" is, but you know it when you see it. It's likely a more recent year for me in my mid-20s than many older riders.
I owned a 2018 goldwing for 3 years. Excellent bike with tons of tech. Great for long trips. However, it was beginning to be boring. I downgraded to a 2022 honda shadow aero and I love it. Pure, raw, simple. Much more fun for local rides which are 99% of my riding.
This is why I got my 04 Ducati Multistrada 1000. It has cable throttle, analog tachometer, no electronic nannies but does have EFI. Riding it is an experience and it feels alive! Now modern bikes are all parallel twins and feel way more disconnected from the ride
yea these bikes are underrated, for the price you get alot, i use my 1000ds for offroad and its really close to a do it all unicorn
I love my old bike - no ABS, no traction control, no rider aids. You just gotta spend time on it, in all conditions, to calibrate your organic ABS/TCL.
Yes they do, that's why I appreciate my 2022 T7 so much. The only setting it has is ABS on or off, just the way it should be
I feel like I lost the thread of reality when I saw somebody commenting that the MT-03 had no driving modes, just ABS… and that was just too raw for them. 😳 The only bike I want to ride has fuel injection, and optionally ABS, and that’s it. I don’t WANT throttle by wire, or traction control, or any of that crap.
My R1 is a 2009, which means it does have the crossplane, but no ABs/traction control. Whilst I do see the point of both with regards to safety, riding without does force you to pay much more attention to your bike inputs which I personally like.
I'm only in my early 20s but I have to agree - I don't think it's a matter of being a "dinosaur".
The same thing has happened to cars, albeit slightly earlier. I think it's why 90s jdm icons have suddenly become so sought after. Pure driving, little electronic distraction.
I have a 2nd gen SV650 and final gen bandit 650. Both take mental effort to ride, but are so rewarding for it.
Coming from a new rider perspective. I didn’t want to rely on the bikes tech to keep me safe. It’s a nice feature but eventually when I get a newer bike that can do things for me then I’m even safer because I won’t totally rely on the tech. I bought a k8 gsxr 750. No abs, no ride by wire nothing. Although it does have fuel injection. That’s the one area that I’d rather have newer tech as I don’t have to mess with a carburetor.
I've owned 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s & 2010s motorcycles. I'm old enough that I need the tech to keep the bike under me due to slowing reaction times. The tech allows more riders to safely manage the more exciting models.
That’s why I ride a GSX-R 750, cable actuated & no electronics, it’s all in the wrist!
Definitely
This is why I bought my 2008 bike.
No traction or wheelie control, non abs and if you don’t treat her with respect she’ll throw you off 🏍️ 💨
One thing I have noticed for me and maybe it's mental is I like a cabled throttle
I like having control over my bike. It does what I tell it to do. Not having all the tech makes me more aware and a better driver.. IMO
This is why the SV is still one of my favorite bikes. I have a new XSR900 and I have never left mode 1 (the least restricted) or messed with any menu. I just want to ride, no play with a damn Gameboy on my dash.
I feel weird about it. I love tinkering with computers. In a car I like having the tech as long as it's easy to choose to not use it. But then on a bike I just don't want it there at all. Give me fuel injection, ABS, and cruise control; all stuff that should have been standard in the 90s. But then who am I to say exactly as much tech as I want and no more. I'm guessing the manufacturers. have much more market research on this stuff than us.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 I'm ok with fuel injection and ABS. Rider modes and the absolute insane obsession with big TFT screens is beyond me. People act like they're watching movies on it or something.
As for cars, I've only owned 90's shit boxes for the same reason (I haven't owned a car in 7 years). I love big clicky buttons, mechanical simplicity, and good ole's durability.
The new Gen of riders are definitely into all that software based stuff. I'm 36 so that probably explains my dislike for all that stuff.
@@2WheelsGood.01 Seen folks change the LCD on the T700s because yea it's boring monochrome that says speed, distance and RPMs....that's all I need...
@ginobikes5810 It doesn't help that motorcycling can be a bit schizophrenic about its tech. For instance, why does everyone still feel the need to call it a TFT and then pretend that it's advance tech? In all other domains it's been assumed that all LCD screens are TFT since the late 80s. I suspect these full color screens are becoming more popular because the cost difference between a fully programmable screen and fixed function display is tiny; it may have inverted.
Likewise, once you have ABS, TC, and TBW, there's almost no reason not have an IMU. Motorcycle manufacturers advertise it as super advanced tech. But all cars have had 2-axis accelerometers since 1996, most have had multiple 8-DOF sensor packages (degrees of freedom, includes accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer) since the early 00s. All smartphones have 9-DOF sensor packages (adds thermometer). They only cost $30, not $2,500 like motorcycle manufacturers pretend.
As a rider, I'm not saying I want to use all this stuff. But from a cost and engineering perspective, there's essentially no reason not to have it. Ford does an excellent job in their trucks of combining analog looking dials with displays in a way that looks good without being cluttered. Everyone else who makes cars, trucks, or motorcycles (including Ford cars) could learn a few things about user interface from Ford trucks.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872it's all about marketing!
The reason I got my motorcycle driving license (which has a pretty hefty pricetag here) in the first place was the switch of an older car with ABS and electric windows *"end of features"* to a modern one. By now I miss how you feel connected with the road while driving, everything is dampened/regulated/controlled/monitored/supported. It's like driving in Forza with an USB steering wheel/shifter.
Thats why I drive an almost 35 year old XV1100 and if the stars align I would drive something older aswell. You have a much more raw experience on the road with those. The MT-09 I've learned riding on was already too far for my taste, even though I personally think ABS is a must by now. Taking into account that everything electronically controlled almost always exponentially add to the cost in purchase and later in servicing the bike I think when it comes to motorcycles less is always more. You cannot repair those with some forum posts and basic understanding anymore, if the fail on you tough stuff. Either you visit a mechanic or you dont drive at all. And paying a premium that experience which might aswell get me a decent car isnt worth it in my opinion. They should focus on the driving and not on gucci everything out just because.
Great back-n-forth. I'm an 80s starter, so I have a soft spot for everything of the era, including the farm equipment level motorcycles. For me the perfect middle-ground between old and new seems to be embodied in the CB1100, not quite retro, not quite modern, just chill and well put together. SV650, 2nd gen. DR650/XR650/KLR650 given their enduring charm. And my pet TW200.
Spite, I'd love to know how you get such a clean recording of your voice in these in-helmet. That's a secret I would welcome if you shared.
I’m on a 2006 Victory Vegas, it’s my first bike and been riding for about a year and 12k miles so far. I don’t even have a Tachometer or Gear Indicator. Wouldn’t change a thing though, I know the bike so well now just by how it feels and runs. The tech isn’t necessary, but I’m sure it’ll be fun to experience when I eventually get a more modern bike down the road. Someone else commented that it makes a better rider to not have the tech, I had no choice but to focus on the basics and feel of the bike, taught me a lot about riding in the short time I’ve been on two wheels. Very nice video, Spite!
bikes from the pre-90s are awesome, there is no bigger thrill than pushing an 80 bike real hard. you know the suspension got limits, you know the brakes aswell is usually a amess so you need to feel the bike, you need to trust that it will movearound but if you be calm and carefull it you use it for input. big smile will come from it
I had an amazing 1989 GSX600f with 80bph and 80s handling and brakes, and it was the most fun I've had on a bike (this was in the very early 00s) it was good handling, but it would shake its head if you pushed it too far, and you could use 100% of the power most of the time, which is liberating as compared to short spats up the motorway with 150+ bhp
@@Drobium77 yes have got several but the most fun still is a 110hp Gpz1100 with fuel injection from -82, still have it. Best part is the low gears so it amazingly fun with loads of torque even at decent (well) speeds.
49 seconds in: "I think we're both in agreement." "yup"
credits roll
Too much expensive tech and not enough of the right tech. I am simply baffled that any motorcycle continues to not have cruise control. A lot of the tech is way too expensive. If you ask a motorcycle manufacturer how much a 6-axis IMU costs, it's around $2,500. But if you ask a gadget company, it's between $7 and $35 - as little as $0.75 if you opt for a 3-axis. A lot of motorcycles are amazingly affordable - $5,300 for a Ninja 400 is incredible - but then the accessory and add-on prices are stupid expensive.
Not the same, but this reminds me of why I ride a Moto Guzzi V7iii. Although it is fuel injected, ABS and TC, it has minimal gauges, no tach, single dry clutch and air cooled. When I was looking at bikes, I was mostly considering the R9T, Bonnie and the V7. Never got to try the Bonnie, but a new one was a little $$$ (of course so was the BMW). I tried the R9T. Love it and really thinking that BMWs are almost perfect. Tried the Guzzi and loved it because it is the complete opposite of a BMW. Its imperfections or character makes you fall in love. The best comparison I can make is if you are dating a super model or the cute girl next door. The girl next door will give you a life time of happiness.
Today's bare minimum standard equipment on a "ONE" motorcycle garage :
ABS, EFI, gear indicator, 5 U.S gallon fuel tank, "non perishable" ANALOG instruments & tubeless wheels.
Other stuff that would make me "ride more and longer" :
CC, TC, plug and play factory heated grips and seat(s) and the option to equip hard bags on it from factory too and not look like something I put together from 20 different manufacturer's catalog.
Stuff that I'm completely against being in a motorcycle: Indoors grade, not weather resistant tablets doubling as instruments that fade and boil parked under the Sun and drown in Rain.
Most Tablet displays WILL DIE WAAAAAAAY BEFORE the motorcycle equipping it does. I see myself soon in that situation with my current 2003 Dinosaur.
Edit: I learnt how to ride on a 1982 GS1100G, the only thing I miss about it is the butter smooth fueling of the CV Carbs, torquey smooth 1077cc engine, gear indicator and the bare minimum maintenance shaft final drive.
All else on it was TRASH.
Josh is spot on. If you learned to ride without "nannies", you notice it pretty quickly. I'm a fan of having the motorcycle help me stay safe, because I'm keenly aware of how badly I ride. Great discussion, gentlemen.
My first bike was Sportster one of the oldest bikes known to mankind and the only axtra feature it had was a speedometer, a very simply machine but it did what it had to do and it was fun to drive the one thing i missed from time to time was a fuelmeter but it was not that big of a deal. But i from driving that i do get what you guys are saying the driving experience is unique however i do think that are some modern bikes that offer something different and most of the modern retro bikes offer a simpler kind of riding than the standard new bike so there is a market for people who like that kind of riding.
I like the newer bikes for one super practical reason: they just work. No choke, no adjustment to the carburetor as I change elevation: they just work. I don't care what the weather is: they start. Keep your battery on a tender during the winter when you're not riding as much (in places like where I live and they salt the roads), keep your chain cleaned, lubed, and adjusted, keep your oil changed and you're pretty much able to ride without issues. I'm in my fifties and I tell you, I don't want to go back!
I work in an office. Most of my days are spent pushing buttons in a CRM-system (not always intuitive) and looking at screens. The last thing I want when I ride is to push buttons with a big screen in my eyesight.
I want EFI, ABS and tubeless tires, apart from that I just want the thing to bloody work. I’ll take less power over the need for TC, I’ll take more breaks over cruise control.
Great video. Have talked about this myself a few times and I do always get that "feel" way way more from older bikes. Whatever it is that triggers my brain exists in greater quantities in older bikes.
modern bikes without any "tech" would be borderline uncontrollable. I like the modern systems those will either help you if you fuck up or give you peace of mind pushing your limits. Everytime I hear someone complain about this it sounds to me like people saying I dont need no airbag/seatbelts/ABS
“We had to help the bike” vs “the bike helps us”. Boom. That was an underrated observation and it was spot on.
Don't like riding or driving any vehicle that has more control of it than I do.
Short answer is yes. That's also why new bikes are so expensive.
They totally do.
Modern liter's have to have it due to excess power, but you don't need a bunch of tech on a 600 lol
Nothing is more fun to ride than a classic Ducati or any variant of the GSXR 750.
How do you feel about new bikes that stick to the basics, like the modern day SV650 and the like, do those capture the same magic as those 20 year old models, or have they lost "it" over the years? I only have riding experience on a MT07/XSR700, and apart from the stock exhaust robbing you of a nice sound I love everything about it. I do really want to try more different bikes, but I'll have to wait until the spring before I can try out some rentals.
I like basic bikes, all the electronics are just another part that will break someday. My phone has plenty of technology, i dont need anymore
I just picked up a mint condition modified 2005 Suzuki GSXR 1000 K-5. It is a veritable rocket ship. No rider aids of any kind. I love it......
Get an 90's or early 2000's sports bike, I always say. :)
I prefer old analog motorcycles. My wheelie control is my rear brake lever. Still love my 20-year-old track modified 03 Buell XB9R and my 01 Suzuki TL1000R. The newest motorcycle I've owned was my 05 GSXR750, and I loved that bike. It was still old school enough yet had the power for alot of fun.
I have a Ducati Scrambler, air cooled and cable throttle, a 950S Multistrada with electronic throttle, traction control, and all sorts of active suspension what-have-yous, and a Honda CRF250L, with ABS, and brakes seemingly from a mountain bike. I love them all the same. Once you're rolling around, who cares?
I own a 2003 Tuono and a 2020 Tracer 900. Both are fun in their own right. But if I had to choose one over the other it would most definitely be the Tracer. It‘s the whole package that counts in the end. And it has gotten so much better in the last decades.
Got a 98 VFR800 last season as a second bike. And absolutely love it
Basically, like in every other facet of life, technology has stamped out and replaced individuality. In the rush to make everything the same, we lose a lot of what makes those things fun. And that’s not just in motorcycling, that’s literally every part of life.
Best years for motorcycles were I think the late naughts. Most bikes had EFI by that point. Analog gauges were still the norm. Disc brakes were the norm. But we didn’t get crazy with tech yet. And bikes were more affordable for more modest income.
That said, do I very wish I'd got something older and more classic than my 2023 MT10SP? No. I can appreciate the benefits of those old bikes, but my MT10SP is a monster, it's easy and SUPER fun and comfortable to ride.
I ride a 2018 SV650. Had it for 4 years and 37,000 km. I was excited by the release of the 8S. I ended up testing both the Suzuki 8S and Honda 750 Hornet. Both of these machines come with a load of riding modes and throttle settings - that I would, after much thought, figured I would not really make use of. I would include the 8S' Quick-shifter, as in I continued with the clutch for the test ride.
The only electronic aid I could see myself ever needing is ABS. All the rest is just gonna break one day and either brick the bike or cost a fortune to fix. My hands are all the rider modes, traction control and wheelie control I need.
the solution is n+1 buy a newer comfy reliable bike and ALSO a unique weird older bike.
I bought a cb919 hornet basically on the back your, and others, reviews. My son turned my old ktm exc400 into a super motad and basically I needed very little persuasion to buy a road bike again. I bought it on the looks and the engine noise. I hadn't even bought any new gear so I hadn't ridden it before I picked it up. I told myself, and others told me I should look for a bike with ABS but really, well I haven't locked it up yet. I have stalled it, and I can't imagine not having a direct connection to the throttle body, even if it's fuel injected. I rode in the 80's, a cb550f2. You bought stuff to 'fix' it. Girling Gas Shocks, Rickman fairing. Yoshimura 4 into 1, K&Ns, etc. The main thing I think, at least myself, I don't need is any more power or any more weight than the Hornet has. 100hp 200kg is fine. The speed limit in Aus is super slow and I can enjoy the bike wirhout thinking I need to be on a track or be 30 (40!) Years younger to get the most out of it. The bike is fully stock, with all the factory extras ( little diddy screen, centre stand etc) and I love it. So 2000-2010 gets my vote.
I started on dirtbikes as a kid and then swapped to homemade supermotos in the early 2000s. I had literally nothing as far as tech on that ole two stroke. I now ride a bike with TC, cruise, and ABS. I don't mind that stuff as I stull feel plenty connected. Beyond that, I haven't spent enough time on any of the high-tech bikes to develop an opinion.
I think the key is actually understanding the tech and how to ride with it. My bike (GSXS1000GT+) has the tech, but since I've been riding for 50 years, I set the engine mapping to "A" mode, set the TC in the middle, ABS is default on, and go riding, not giving any of it a single thought. I've learned how it feels and how it responds to inputs and just go with it, not diminishing my skills or awareness one bit. Even with an autoblipper, I still find myself using the clutch and rev matching riding solo even though I don't need to, but the blipper is really nice when I have a pillion as shifting up or down is far smoother, less jerky and more comfortable than I can do it manually. Point being, tech is here to stay, learn to ride with it, and if you have the option to turn it off, go for it. Ride your own ride.
Love my 70s and 80s bikes
I don't have anything newer than 2005 because I won't give up my carburetor. Forget rider modes and abs I won't even deal with a fuel pump.
I started back in the days when guys were wearing "see no Evo, hear no Evo, ride no Evo" t-shirts because anything newer than a shovelhead was to modern and fancy.
If you want to ride your bike at it's maximum ability you pick one you really like and spend 2 or 3 decades getting to know every aspect of that bike.
You can't do that with modern bikes with alot of modern electronics. You simply can't fix it at home after a decade or two.
I started riding all classics mostly from the 60s just ordered a bran new r7… staring with old bikes taught me a lot I would never sell my classics but I’m ready to have one that is turn key always works never leaks and much much safer drum breaks shouldn’t even be called brakes
I'm with you on this, all my bikes have been at least 20 if not 30 years old and now I'm in my mid 40s I'm ready for a bike that I don't run the risk of having to push to a garage if it goes awry
I think I want a Ducati 1098 Streetfighter but other people have worked out how good they were and they are quite expensive today. :| The new one might be all cool and stuff with it's mental power and ride by wire, but the 1098 was just raw awesome. Did more people die on bikes in 2008 compared to now? There was a drop in 2009 attributed to the 2008 recession that hasn't "recovered", but if that's true then bikes are no safer with all the extras than they were before.
I'm most definitely a dinosaur on this matter.
I have an air cooled Guzzi (yes it does feel odd to specify that) and I've been eying on the RE Super Meteor for a while...
Also yes I do not care about the power that much even if I'm only 30.
I went from a 98 250 ninja to a 16 sportster to a 22 trident. I still have the sportster. I have to say I enjoy the trident even with the rider aids and somewhat muted throttle . The trident is an absolute joy,but the sportster has a more visceral feeling without the rider aids. I think that is what you and Josh are talking about.
Honestly, I'm fine with most modern stuff - fuel injection, awesome brakes, sweet suspension... ALL great advancements.
Just give me back the cable throttle. Then it'll be perfection!
I am torn on this subject, I had a BMW S1000r with fully electronic adjustable suspension which I loved, I had to sell it though coz I could not remove wheelie control, it also had 4 riding modes which I ignored and left in the fastest mode. I now have a Gen 2 superduke and put track mode on it so it can wheelie. Rain or shine it stays in track mode
My first bike is a 2007 Honda 919 and I still have it in the Garage. I also own a 2021 Indian Scout Bobber. Both bikes I bought as new bikes. I Luv both bikes!
Og ktm superduke 990 was 05-12 I had a bullet proof 08 and it was way different and exciting than anything else out at the time
Personally, im ADAF (Attention Deficit As F....). The last thing i need when im supposed to be concentrating on not dying is flashy lights and fancy touch screens to play with 😂
Try a 1972 H2 with a drum brake in the back!!! When I finally got a clapped out CB750 Superbike and punched it out to 836 and made a dresser I finally realized that a motorcycle could be more than a Death Machine.
Im an old school mechanic of 42 years now. I in no way claim to know everything however I like basic carburettor and older style analogue guages. Not much to go wrong and if something does go wrong its rather simple to repair on the side of the road. Though my bike has never let me down as i service it regularly i personally like the old school mechanics. Im not saying modern models are no good its just my personal choice. Each his/her own. Stay safe everyone.👍
One of both is the best! I have an 03 sv1000s, and 21' z900rs. The zrs is great for having fun and peice of mind. The sv is fun and raw, but does come with some work in the garage.
Currently ride a 1971 BMW R75/5 Cafe racer with carbs, drum brakes, and deleted all instruments. Zero plastic. Also have Royal Enfield Bullet 500 and my first bike which is a 2001 Ducati 900Sport. New bikes do nothing for me.
I have a 2023 Ninja 650, and I was wondering about one thing?
When I go around a roundabout at low speeds, there is an almost not noticeable lag upon opening the throttle small amounts, this has the effect of making the line of the bike change a bit, and it's annoying.
I've been riding for 27 years, and have had every sort of bike you can imagine, including some epic 70s two strokes, and with carburetted bikes, there is no lag as your input is direct to the output with no 'middle man'.
I'm glad you've picked up on this, because I really thought it was my riding being sloppy or something?
That can be fixed with a tune, nearly every modern bike comes with a very choppy on/off throttle response.
I suppose I could honestly say that the nanny's would have probably saved me a few spills.
That is a good question. I have a 2023 Kawasaki x300. I guess the anti-lock is nice, and the fuel injection is awesome. Cruise would be nice. Great display. Reliability is a big bonus. The problem with new tech may be the reason that you need to have a UA-cam channel to get your hands on some of the new bikes.
Good mention about Bottom Sprocket, do need to catch up on it.
As for my opinion on too much tech, yes. Is it nice to have? I guess. But a lot makes it more safe for the rider as well, which I can't really hate on.
Doing without does make you more skilled without trusting or relying on tech. But also with Tech it makes you a better rider as well.
I am not too big on all the tech, I can get behind ABS, TC, Anti Wheelie Control, it's more safe but it's should be selectable to on and off for the wants of people.
And a lot can be used for track runs, lean angle, tire pressures, digital dash, with warnings if somethings up etc all nice. And those can be used for making the bikes better for track and also in a way for street with analyzing that stuff. And fixing the issues it might have.
So yeah 2 sided on it. Don't hate it, don't love it, for me it's not a necessity to have.
It depends on my mood. Sometimes you want the tech sometimes you want the raw feel. My V65 was my first bike I've had it for 26ish years I'll never get rid of it. It has it's problems (it hates the cold.) It's actually really smooth up to about 80. After that it gets a little floaty and light in the front. It keeps you honest. My Scrambler is the same from 50-120.(just more wind) if I want to take a short ride I'll take my V65. If I'm going on longer or 1 way trips the scrambler is way more reliable and I feel comfortable knowing it has the extra tech. I like both sides. They bring different things to the table.
I understand the push for "safety" features, but... i feel so uncomfortable with linked brakes 😅 I'll keep my older bikes. 2010 and prior. Two down! Thanks for the content!
Amen, my 1988 Katana 1100 is air - cooled with basic carbs and will run strong all day long.
I agree I like older bikes better. The only thing that sucks is I like cruise control too much. Road king and rs660.
Yes. I haven't even ridden a high tech motorcycle and I already know I don't need any of the fancy tech. Not even abs. I've only ridden a 2009 Suzuki Gs500 and a 2020 GSX S 750. I don't wheelie, I don't ride the track, I commute to work and have fun on my days off. What do I need a IMU for? I'm not touching knees in the canyons. I have a freaking CDL so I couldn't even really be a hooligan if I wanted to. Has nothing to do with money as well. I can afford a new modern motorcycle no problem. I'm a fuel hauler with no kids. I got enough money. Cool features, and they probably do great when you use them. That's a big IF you actually use them. Otherwise they're all overkill.
A week b4 Christmas i bought a 2019 indian chieftain. Its my 1st bagger. Btw, a while ago spite said you said buy a bike. Where you like the stock exhaust. Well i found it, this is the only present day bike, where i like the exhaust.
I will adnit the bike came with a rinehart slip-on, cams and 116 bbk.
Nah when I’m alone on a back road miles away from cell service, I want traction control
I mean, ABS on/off (front and rear should have separate settings), Traction control on/off, Rain mode on/off.
I'd be happy with light weight, minimal 2 strokes though... those need to make a comeback.
I'm also a big fan of Buell XBs...
I must say I haven’t rode a brand new bike but having a new car with all the tech I like it for my wife but I really don’t like it myself . I ride a 2008 zx6r and it’s so nice to have the power without the restrictions and even my dads gs650 katana from 84’ just gives you so much feedback & freedom ( not great though corners) but is a great ride anyway .
modern technology has gone over the edge, after working in motorcycle dealerships for 47 years, one of the most disappointing latest issues is by performing required computer updates, some updates take 2 hours to complete, if internet has fluctuation or download fails for whatever reason the mechanic is now responsible for a bike that no longer functions at all, that is until the update is resolved, it really has no good side explaining to a customer waiting on what was supposed to a simple download that it's 4 hour wait or potentially needs a ride home until condition of what was a functioning motorcycle can no longer be ridden home, being a way advanced mechanic because of years and thousands of solved issues has zero meaning when being held hostage by faulty computer software programming and ever-changing procedures that are only discovered after the fact, this job has always been extremely important on what not to do, the manufacturers don't adequately compensate the dealerships for issues that occur, which they had no part in causing but are now expected to remedy, the future of what was once a great passion for many has become overextended
As someone who loves the GSX-8S, I can see the points about the computers starting (or continuing to) override the 'feel' of actually riding the motorcycle. I think that works perfectly fine for city riding and commuting where things are most likely to go wrong, but for stuff such as track youd just prefer it off. Thats a primary factor as to why supersports fell off the limelight for the average rider, most of the time they just dont see a reason for it, unless they are more concerned with going fast rather than anything else. The US having far more accidents than overseas also indicates this, but that gets into another topic
I just last year got me a 2007 Griso after riding a bobbed 1952 BSA. It has turn signals, rear suspension, fuel injector, a starter motor and all sorts of tech. 😅 A completly different experience. But I'll never go full electronics.
I very much agree that there is too much technology in motorcycles. I I have a 2022 Indian chief and I am selling it because of the overwhelming technology that I just don't use.
Both the old-skool mechanical bikes and the whiz-bang computerized bikes have their charms and limitations. Brass tacks, though: I'll stick with the whiz-bang stuff. I might not be able to totally turn off all the gadgets, but I can disable or minimize enough of it to get that old-skool feel.
I think the tech stuff is pretty neat and makes motorcycles a little more approachable to more people and to me that’s a positive. But I wish their was more options to not have all the safety features
I started riding when FI and ABS were not the norm. My current bike has that tech but not much more. I don’t do burnouts etc and because I’m aging and after some close calls with gravel on the road I want a high end bike with TC, a super nice suspension, cruise, etc maybe a Wing or Versys 1000 but I do want the throttle to feel REAL and not delayed or twitchy or digital.
but how can a non-digital throttle be not twitchy...
I thought you guys stopped doing the podcast...i just found out you started a dedicated channel for it, i got dom catching up to do
Loved the video guys! 👍 Couldn't agree more with your thoughts. Why do we need all that electronics and safety. Motorcycles are there for adventures, experiencing different feelings of ups and downs. And nowadays it has become a bit too perfect, but perfect is not always the best. Fuel injection is fine for me and some of the modern tech as well, but why do we need to overdo it?! It feels like modern soccer to me, that's all about tactics and 100% in terms of performance, but at what cost!? There are way fewer characters as there used to be, way fewer unexpected moves from players or from motorcycles. Hope in the future, the motorcycle industry will realise this. Anyways great video!🏍️
Where are you riding on those roads? I live in Bulverde, TX. Want to try those roads.
I'm right there with ABS and FI being all the tech i want in my bike which is why I just bought a brand new Z1000.... it's an absolute weapon!
i learned how to ride on a modern Yamaha MT 07 but now i ride a Suzuki VS 800 from 1999! i loved the MT 07 for how light and easy to control it was. but i had to go oldschool. no tech just 100% freedom!
I’ve been riding since the 80’s, and owned bikes from every decade from 1969-2019. My favorite era has been from about 2004-2019. A lot of great, affordable bikes. Easy to fix and fun to ride.
I definitely think a lot of bikes have too much tech, especially small displacement street bikes. The added tech comes with a price bump, which is a deterrent at the entry level. For instance, the Kawasaki 400cc in-line 4 would sell much better if it cost less but had lower tech, and be a better bike to learn on. It doesn’t need premium brakes, suspension, and rider modes at it’s weight class. It needs to cost less and be easy to own. Developing skills with a light, inexpensive bike is ideal to learn the important lessons, and a lot more people would be interested if you took $2500 of unnecessary tech off the price tag.
The only tech a bike should ever have is fuel injection, optional ABS, and a proper fuel gauge. Frankly i think every bike still needs a kick start as a backup, its way easier than trying to jump the battery on some bikes
daw - you got one of the kids this week. and it's the kid that is perfect for this video - Josh is just like me - had the SV650 and the Kawasaki 900 (i had the SV and the CB1000c) and what did you have? the 919 ....and...oh, the Goldwing!! yep, all 3 of us had an old sport bike and an old heavy standard. and despite the self-loathing-level of work involved with all 6 of those bikes, they give you a better feel.....and I think its the thrill. the fear. the feeling of uncertainty. ok, we're at 4:56, I'll shut up and let you guys do the damn thing 🙂
Tech has eliminated the need for actual skill and dumb luck. It's the same with newer welding machines with pulse, phase control and cold weld cycles. The machine literally stacks the dimes for you. 40 years ago if you could manage a Tig you were a welding God. Now almost anyone can do it!!!
My first two bikes in the eighties were two-strokes, and I thought that four-strokes were too technological then. I still have my ‘97 Carbureted, no electronic anything apart from ignition, Buell - needs a new tank though; thanks for all the ethanol Gov. Reynolds (IA)!