.."Get rid of him"....That's what my psychologist said the fourth time I met with her. After testing both me and my husband, she made an appointment to see each of us separately; my husband first. When it was my turn I was positive she would tell me all the things I was doing wrong to cause him to treat me so badly. I mean, everybody thought he was soo wonderful! Sadly, me included! I truly thought everything was my fault. She continued, "He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. When you get your self-esteem up to where it should be, you wouldn't even date a man like him." Thus starting my long and arduous journey to do just that. Starting-a divorce, then years of therapy to learn why I would choose to marry a man like that. That was 30 years ago. I still think of her sometimes; what great advise.
I was so traumatised by couples therapy. I can still see and hear the therapist deciding together that I was just too sensitive. It was a horrible experience. Another time the therapist said my husband had been having an affair because of how difficult it was for him having such a sensitive and demanding wife. He was so charming in therapy. Listening to you talking about it brings it all back.
Same here. My narc was seducing our marriage therapy in front of me. I now have an incredible therapist, but losing the old one and the narc. So sorry.
I made the mistake of taking my N parent to therapy, and this is exactly what happened. He would constantly bring up MY anxiety. Then, when the therapist suggested he might be projecting other things onto me, he said "hmm I never thought about it like that.." then immediately turned and suggested I was projecting things onto him. He paid for every session to be able to say he did something, and refused to attend therapy for himself because he'd "been before" and took a psychology course in college once. Save yourself the headache, just go no contact - DON'T try therapy with a N, they'll never be accountable or have empathy for you. Their superiority complex is more important.
Facts I tried therapy with my narcissistic family, and they ended up smearing the crap out of me, scapegoating me through devaluation, ganging up on me, using corrupt ACS(child services) workers to abuse and make fake evidence on me through corrupt documentation with fake claims, and sent me away at every opportunity when they realized their abuse doesn't work on a sensitive person(in touch with their feelings, and the feelings of others[seeks to understand others])
My mom found counseling & the bass Turd was a Pastor of whom attacked me verbally in the first ten minutes of our introduction. Dismissed or devalued my every childhood times of abuse. Blamed me for a family member sexual long term abuse as my fault. Tried to break me but instead brought me into the light of God's truth!
Hopefully in 100 years time , there will be a type of medicine to treat this. I can’t see how a genuine therapist can cure the narcissistic patterns. The narcissist won’t share the truth, they probably loose the connection with the truth and themselves anyway, and thế without the truth, the therapist will have a work with fake/ artificial information.
My narc, ex, finally relented, and we went to a couples therapy. We were in the room 20 minutes. The therapist, female, said to him something like you’re gonna control her right out of your life. At that point he decided that it wasn’t necessary to continue. He accused her of siding with me to make him look bad. He refused to allow me to get individual sessions. I did leave.
When I lose hope being around the narcissist, I hear Dr Ramani in my mind. She reminds me I am not crazy and actually feels like a mom or best friend who is on your side. A truly unique and life saving channel. In my suicid#@! ideation, I realize someone knows I am a human and valuable in my existence. Thank you, Dr Ramani.
The narcissist in my life tracked down my therapist and my therapist admitted to having a long conversation about me. After that, I have not been able to trust a therapist until Dr. Ramani. Thank you for the safe space, which feels kind of ironic to say that about a UA-cam channel!
@@mbmb50 Thank you for asking. Yes, it felt very much that way. I realised then that they will go to great lengths to ensure their narrative is the only one that people hear and believe.
I'm so sorry that was your experience. I'm horrified at some of the stories I hear from people about things therapists have done. I hope you are able to regain the ability to trust a therapist so you can get the therapy you deserve
This described my marriage to a malignant narcissist I divorced. I attempted therapy and after the first and last session he bragged to me that the therapist fell for his lies.
I had mine brag (back door threat) about getting away with choking his ex by painting her as a saucy brat who turns on her sweet innocence who in fact egged him on and he didn't do anything but scream at her. Basically saying he did choke her but convinced a court she was a hurtful mean spirited cheater who would have deserved it if he had done something but he really respects women and would never. He was quite proud.
I almost purchased a new book to give to my new therapist. (I'm trying therapy again). After hearing this video, I'll simply look for another therapist that understands narcissism to help me navigate this minefield of vulnerable narcissism. I don't know what I'd do without Dr. Ramani plus the comments. At least I know the source of this depression I live with. I'm 63 now. Twenty years ago I found myself saying, "I don't want to go home". Look, if you're young take heed to these warnings about narcissism. I went from neglectful childhood, youth, and marriage. It seemed something was off, just didn't know what it was. 33+ years later, I learned after my health began failing. Everything I believed about my marriage fell apart inside of me.
That was gold. All of it. Been through 3 PhD psychologists and therapists that all listed NPD and BPD as specialties, and yet you covered my experiences with each one of them. And as a side note, it's really sad sitting back and just seeing everything in it's simplicity: a victim of narcissistic abuse is going to therapy out of love to save something they shouldn't have to, a relationship that the narcissist had no problem destroying and no interest in repairing, and then the hopeful victim gets gaslighted by both their abuser and therapist... How much love, abuse, pain, suffering, hope, money, time, and exhaustion is given to save something and someone who never did, never can, and never would genuinely love you back? It's insane. I get it, we all have too much empathy, but at what cost? No sufficient change in them, and instead of progressing, we digress. Marriage and relationships are for the progression of both. These relationships?, haha. Abusers aren't our blessings, supports, or advocates. Probably in an unhealthy way, I'm glad in one sense that I fought to the death loving, hoping, and trying to save my relationship so my conscience feels clearer, but also want to throw up because I shouldn't have, and knowing I gave up all my best youthful years to abuse when I could have had love, peace, joy, liberating freedom, fun without fear, and trust without doubt. I'm still in the middle of divorce, but this time around I'm going to look for someone that's already done the work, and not try to marry hopeful potential.
I sincerely wish you all the very best for the rest of your life. I'm very sorry for what you went through (it's all too familiar). The take away is that you've proven to yourself what you're made of. You can trust your good heart, and leave the crazy-making guilt where it belongs: with people incapable of giving or receiving love. I hope you frequently remind yourself of the tremendous strength and resilience it takes to be still standing and decent now; claim that credit, and let it empower your confidence
Adam, I feel every word of your comment. Thank you for encapsulating in written form your experience... which unfortunately is the experience of many of us.
Beautifully written, brilliantly clear-eyed and monumentally helpful for those suffering through life with a narcissist. Your response is a gift of healing & beacon of hope for others.
During my tumultuous divorce, my ex-narc chose a "Christian" marriage counselor and met with him beforehand, then in our session together, he used all of the magic Christian key words and completely won over the therapist. The therapist basically said that I'm a lost cause and ended up telling me that I could leave and he would finish the session with just my ex. It was like watching a terrible hallmark movie. My ex had the tears in his eyes and humble demeanor. On a happy note, yesterday was my 6 year anniversary of being SINGLE 🤗🤗🤗
This mades me so mad as a new Christian. A man is it LOVE as a woman is to RESPECT is the modern Christian teaching. And Narc are NOT loving unconditionally anyone but themselves so you are off the hook with respect and that point and submit was made up my a Communal Narc I am sure!!
@@jackiep5009as a Christian, when he said he found faith I hoped our marriage would heal (after betrayal) and start to thrive. But God was used against me:-(
Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for just stating the obvious…these relationships cannot be fixed. I believe that is true. When I stopped fawning over my spouse and started saying no to his constant demands, he started to lose it regularly and the narcissistic rage started showing up. I’m done and can’t thank you enough for your videos! They have saved many lives I’m sure! Peace is worth it! You don’t need to live with abuse! 💜🙏
I first went to a therapist at age 15. I experienced horrific dizzy spells unexplainable to blood tests, glucose, ENT, etc. I saw the therapist once, when she claimed I was articulate poised- but, requested to see my parents. Mother was game, NPD father went once, refusing to return (Mom said she cried, father wouldn't listen, therapist stops him). This was in the 70's. These videos reveal unhealthy dynamics of growing up in a house of narcissism. I was in the middle of immature parents, suffered eating disorders, shame. Now, sixty, working on reparenting, self-compassion, rediscovering the me that got lost, destroyed. Thank you for a place to understand the mess, feel validation & actually fit in.
You absolutely nailed it, my experience in therapy with a narc in the first 3 minutes. Therapists totally taken in while I was the unhinged one. No one asked how did I get this way. 30+ years of marriage before I finally worked out that our disfunction was not only down to me being an unloveable person.
Hi Dr. Ramani, just wanted to say that your voice and words have become a source of comfort for me. It’s hard work to put out content as regularly as you do, and I just wanted to show appreciation for all your hard work. Ignore the haters, you’re amazing❤
I ended up with a therapist with my ex who, looking back now, was a narcissist himself. I told him that it wasn't my job to always lift up my ex husband when he was down and he screamed at me with "oh yes it is!" I was so taken back but I thought I was so horrible for not doing my "duty" as a wife. He pushed and pushed until I let my ex back. He was so nice and made food and helped clean the house and then 2 weeks later everything was back to square one. I was beside myself with bitterness and hopelessness because I felt completely trapped. Finally left a year ago and thought I would leave with empty hands and no support but this year has been eye opening and refreshing like I never thought possible. Tell your story but never, I mean NEVER to someone that doesn't pick a side. If they're your partner or ex partner's friend, they are NOT YOURS.
OMG, my mother-in-law did this to a psychiatrist who was evaluating her mental health!! Once we got into the car, she said, "Well that was a complete waste of time!"
Yup, ex refused to ever go to therapy until I actually left, then he thought he would get me back! Yup, he definitely thought all of the relationship problems were just mine, that he was perfect. He thought I wanted a divorce because he said I couldn't get a couch I had wanted! But when I even tried mediation instead of an attorney he wouldn't honor what he had agreed to in person. He went through 3 attorneys. Yes, I learned I needed a witness for every interaction. I finally ended up in individual therapy at the suggestion of an attorney. Thank goodness!
Thank you🙏 I wish I had access to all this information sooner. I'm a huge believer in therapy, and when my ex started abusing me like this my first line of defense was counseling. After only three visits she spoke to me privately and told me to get me, and my child out of there as soon as possible. It's been a nightmare ever since I left him. Now I'm dealing with parental alienation, I'm trying to find help without success. My daughter and I have just become so desperate for help, but trying to get any interventions just impossible since the people we rely on are unaware of how these kinds of issues affect the whole family. He remarried, and I thought that the abuse would subside. It didn't 😞 Now he's abusing all of us, but since people can't physically see marks from the abuse they think it's not happening. It's hard to watch him do this to another person, and keep finding new victims. He openly cheats, and had even started moving into a separate home with another woman away from his new wife. It's just sick. I use these videos to help support our teenage daughter that we share because I don't know what else to do. Again, thank you🙏
Spot on once again. Over the years three different therapists. The first two were the run of the mill relational types that really didn't help at all. The last one had her nailed after one session together he wanted to she us separately. He would see her 2-3 times and then ask for both of us to come in. He was "getting" it and just as you said, she recognized the jig was up and refused to go anymore. You are right, all I wanted was a witness to what I was experiencing because outside of the home she mostly kept it together. She really was not charismatic like many but mostly pleasant enough that no one really would suspect or believe what I was being subject to at home. The exception came on a visit to my out-of-state parents home when she lost it in front of the whole family and no one was spared from her verbal rath. She even tried to provoke a physical confrontation with two family members. Now I had witnesses, witnesses that loved me and, in retrospect, knew I was not happy but had no clue to the depth of my despair. It was the beginning of planning for an exit strategy which culminated in me leaving about a year and half later. For the better part of 17 years I was not allowed to have emotions or feelings that I could share in the home. What does one do with those emotions? No one wants to hear a man whining about such things and I could not afford an ongoing relationship with a therapist. So, I journaled----------a LOT. It is not the same as talking to an empathetic person but at least these emotions, feelings and thoughts were not forever trapped inside. I stopped journaling 20+ years ago when the relationship ended. I recently moved and found the notebooks full of my writings. I gave them to my son with a box of other things. I didn't tell him what was in the box but just said there was some personal stuff he might be interested in, or not, and to do whatever he thought best with them. If he has read them or parts of them he has not let on that he did so. I didn't want to throw them away because they were such a huge part of my life during those years. And, I didn't want to bring them into my present marriage. So, I chose to give them to someone who also lived in the same home as a child (now 40) and realizes how dysfunctional his mother is. I'd love to hear his reactions to what I had written but will not bring it up. I honestly don't know what all was written during those many years ago. I only once went back and read some of the entries and that was at least 15 years ago.
That was brilliant to give those journals . Luckily for me or not I am bipolar so I had remained in therapy for 24 years and on meds so I believed in teaching my four children on NPD as soon as I knew (23 years) because I taught my children about bipolar and my middle child is bipolar . I began sending Dr. Ramani and others to my kids . When my divorce lawyer says don’t say narcissist to kids . I am like ooop too late lol . As they learned (3 years later) they began to seek their own therapy and today we are very close and he isn’t taken seriously too much because he just never bonded to his kids . I love the idea of journals given to your child that was brilliant and respectful !
My wife is a narcissist. We started getting counseling through our church. First it was mentoring from other couples. The minute she'd hear something she took as a criticism of her, she'd stop going. Then it was with the pastor that ran the counseling. That stopped when they pointed out changes she needed to make. Then professional marriage counseling. It took 2 sessions for her to realize what was going on, and recommend individual counseling for us first. I'd go, she wouldn't. Recently, after quitting all of those, my wife tried the typical passive aggressive bullying of "are we going to do marriage counseling, or do you want to start talking to lawyers". When I said lawyers are probably the only option at this point, she...blew...up. That continued until she realized she had no chance of getting the house or alimony. Now she's hoping I'll drop all of this if she's nice enough in the short term. That might have worked 3 years ago. Not so much now.
Mine looked like a kicked puppy when we got into the therapist's office. At home she spat venom. There was one time the therapist straight up asked us to be vulnerable to each other telling her how she truly makes me feel when she says specifically hurtful things and what my deepest fears were, meanwhile my body was screaming, NO, DON'T TELL HER ANYTHING. It actually made me so nauseous I completely disassociated. She looked happy and in hindsight gave her more buttons to push
OMG, I had the same exact thing happen from couples therapy. And yes, my wife used it as ammunition to use against me every chance she could afterward.
Years ago we went to a couple therapy. At the end of the first session, the therapist whispered to me RUN FAST...... At the time I was confused and not sure. Years later I understood what she meant. I should have listened to her....
Same. One session with one therapist 25 years ago who saw it immediately. The intervention and quick advice was, however, unprofessional and ineffective, unfortunately. Took me many more years to figure it all out. Hindsight is 20/20
Thank you for talking about this important topic Wasted lots of time and energy in couples therapy Just another exercise in manipulation and denial of the lies I had to walk out of one therapists office because she was so absolutely clueless to his lying , she attacked me for being suspicious, I should have gave up completely then, my mistake, These kind of relationships are toxic and painful , and hopeless I'm still in the process of healing Thank you for the compassionate and informative channel
We’ve had 8 therapists over our 24 year marriage. You are so right that couples therapy does not work in these situations. Our last therapist yelled at me several times towards the end and when I told him his methods are not working because he only saw my spouse 1 hour a week and I was around her the other 167 hours, things got worse. Our last session, he looked my wife in the eye and said he can’t help us because I wouldn’t emote. Then he opened his office door and said we had to leave. We went to him pretty much weekly for six months and since we could not afford his sessions and he did not want to deal with insurance, he agreed to 50 dollars per session. Be careful if this is presented to you….. you get what you pay for!
@Trayc Thorn thank you 🙏 for your post. In our marriage of 46 years we had therapy with 12 couple’s counselors. All advices were directed at me, the upset wife. The last marriage counselor raised his voice and glared at me when he said: “Don’t you see he is TRYING his best!!!” This was the last session for me. Narcissist decided not to go back either. Best wishes to us, misunderstood spouses trying to save the marriage that probably never existed.
@@gorunsko31 You are welcome AND you are a trooper 46 years!! Wow you must have superpowers. The things that have helped me the most( besides this channel and other like it) 1. Radical Acceptance 2. Realistic Expectations 3. Stoicism. All the best and stay strong 💪
@@gorunsko31 They were all difficult and I spent many days in pain, but I am on the other side so keep pushing. The principles of Stoicism help with life in general especially the idea below: We Don’t Control External Events, We Only Control Our Thoughts, Opinions, Decisions and Duties!!
@@tgolf4fun I have more experience of practicing radical acceptance than stoicism, but I am an eager student. I agree with your statement. Yoga 🧘♀️ lead me to Buddhism… I cannot say I am Buddhist, but I learned enough to appreciate its principles. (Forgive me any errors - I am non native speaker of English.) Namaste 🙏
I attended multiple sessions with with my narcissistic coparent with two separate therapists that she actually initiated. But once the facts became clear and she realized she could no longer successfully gaslight them either, she promptly discontinued therapy each time. The point being, even if you land a good therapist that can see through their game, dont expect the narcisist to ever take accountability or change. They will more likely just keep shopping for a new audience until they can find one they can more easily manipulate to help validate thier false reality.
I've been to family therapy with a narcissistic dad. I was branded as the difficult teenager, and the therapist was definitely taking his bait. It definitely did more harm than good.
@@David-eu1ms Therapists rarely side with parents over an underage child or teenager. It's almost as if it would be cruel and unprofessional of them to do that. 🙃
WOW! I wish i had known this. My husband is a covert narcissist and we tried therapy. We did it together and individually and i noticed as soon as he had one session alone with her our next couple session he was making eyes with her and saying see. After that I felt like she was looking at me like i was awful and we stopped because i could see it was not helping. Honestly, Your videos have helped more than anything else ever has. Now i see what he is and the tips and tools have made all the differences in the world. I can see when he is baiting me and i don't fall for it anymore. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. Most importantly I can see how i have changed myself to try to make him happy and i don't like the changes in me and I know it's time to leave.
So true, my ex pulled the - friend/therapist card on me and it completely worked to her advantage, he even tried to convince me it was 50% my fault for her lies and infidelity, What's even worse is it was one of the pastors at our church who was also holding water for her new supply who also happened to be a large donor to that church. Funny thing is the oldest lay pastor who seen that I was getting snowed was barred from speaking with me by the head pastor. Money does some strange things to "holy" people huh?
This is so true so accurate and so painful!! I wish I had known this years ago. So thankful you are educating the masses . Thank you so much Dr Ramani and sending love and strength for your very important mission . ❤️
We had couples therapy…. BUT, I also insisted on individual therapy apart! How else can a therapist see each individual as they’re own person? This way, the therapist gets a little more of a well rounded view… what we were like apart and what we were like together. My husband thought that sounded totally fair, especially since he thought that in my private sessions that I was lying. Within 3 months, the therapist took me aside and offered to call me an attorney. My husband was a covert/ malignant narcissist. He informed me that I needed to get out of this.
We tried it with someone who was not licensed or experienced and had just an IFS certification or something. The therapist himself revealed he was basically stalking a woman he was interested in. My ex manipulated him quickly and he thought he was an angel, even though my ex would roll his eyes, laugh at me, cut me when it was my turn to talk. He was abusing me right in front of this counselor/coach person. Then he would go home and talk and rage about how much he loathed all the women in his life. I am SO glad to be done with all of that.
I had this experience with two different relationships...the therapist over-identified with the narc providing the narc with more ammunition for continued abuse. This was deeply traumatizing for me and it took years for me to trust again. Actually, I'm still working on it.
The issue is that overall, therapists are very general. Basic, bare bones courses with zero extended specialty courses and certifications. Trauma therapy must be done carefully and very differently than other therapy. Narcissist abuse is also not known in a therapy room. It's a field that needs a huge re-evaluation in the education and licensing. My experience.
Thank you so much for this one Dr. Ramani. I've experienced this, not only in therapy, but in most of the mutual relationships involving the abuser. Couples therapy was a huge set back, because he used the things learned in therapy to use against me. It was awful. I see it clearly after I got out, but at the time it just reinfor ced the abuse. There was an exercise asking us to list nice things about eachother, I did, and when it was his turn, he refused to say a word... at least at that moment, I understood there was more wrong than I thought and it opened my eyes. I began to seek private therapy and I found a video with Dr Ramani. I spent 6 months observing the abuser and it validated my suspicion and with a therapists help, I got out safely 🙏
One therapist asked us to make a list of things we could improve in. My list was two pages long (I know I am not perfect). He didn't have a list. When he was asked where his list was, he replied that he couldn't think of anything to to put on it! Because, you know, he is perfect already and needs no improvement, while obviously all our problems are 100% my fault.
Once again you have hit the nail on the head! All of these things happened to me when I suggested my narc brother and I see a therapist to ‘please our mother’ Big mistake on my part. Brother came in and charmed the hell out of the therapist and turned the situation into a nightmare for me. Therapist was enthralled by narc brother.
@@brianb7869 thanks. He is. I must say I’ve learned a lot, mostly detrimental to me but now that I understand (thanks Dr R!) and my own sister in law, who is a therapist, I am making appropriate choices on my own behalf.
@@smokyo7855 again sorry that your knowledge was detrimento to you.. it is great that your sister in law is such a talented therapist! keep growing.. keep going!
My sister's husband won't go near a therapist because there is nothing wrong with him! Glad there are therapists like you who limit their practice to a specialty. His list of demands on her are endless. The latest is, she is wrong for sleeping until 9am on Saturdays...or anytime he is at home awake or wants to talk with her on the phone. He recently went ballistic and intimidated my niece into leaving work to check on her because she didn't answer his calls for 30 minutes while she was visiting her daughter in an distant city. You would never know it by meeting him. He is relatively quiet when not alone with her and seldom expresses an opinion. My sister is FINALLY ready to get therapy for herself after her daughter, with whom she was very enmeshed has gotten into therapy and made it known she is moving to another state.Your work has made her aware of how important it is to find the right person. Thank you! Sending healing energy your way for all you deal with.
@@KatieLHall-fy1hw I think it is about control and there is never enough, because the control masks an insatiable need to run from his inner turmoil. Over the years he has taken over every minute of her life and now in her late 60's she has a host of stress related diseases, irritable bowel, high blood pressure, Cushing’s syndrome.... He pressured her until she quit work two decades ago. She thought the stress was too much. Little did she know it would get worse. With no form of support other than a small social security check, she has few options. She even has to hide seeing a therapist. Don't let him take you there!
Within 2 wks of new marriage I was trauma bonded w/ an outrageously frightening rage by my Narc. I was able to get the Narc to therapy & thought this will indeed be beneficial & he couldn’t handle it when confronted by a professional about the actions . The narc quit after 2x bc the narc said had no time for this therapy . I lost the 1st time in the rage that no one sees & 2nd time too & on & on - the narc’s manipulation and gaslighting and much more showed me who the narc was then & is today a slow insidious death- 26 years later I’m awake finally - thanks DR R.
My ex demanded that I go to therapy and I think I surprised her when I said absolutely and I went many times over the years … we went 6 times together and the therapist believed everything she said about me until the last session … He asked her questions like why is he wrong , why is it you feel it was his fault etc… she finally got enraged stood up and broke up with me right in front of the therapist .. when I came back the next session with out her he said I’m not supposed to tell you this but she’s a covert Narcissist .., I stuck it out with her another 6 months and the gaslighting and devaluing caused such bad arguments that she discarded me permanently cause she realized I knew to much and would be to difficult to maintain… I’m so sad cause I realize now the abuse didn’t originate with her but when I was a little boy… I’m on my path to recovery.. thank you for all the beautiful videos Dr Ramani I’ve been watching you for 5 years ..you saved my life
Thank you Dr. Romani. I am going through a divorce right now. I was only married a little less than a year. I had never experienced this kind of treatment from anyone and I'm 53. Through therapy, knowledge through channels as yours, and surrounding myself with people who know me is my part. The hurt is terribly nefarious, it rips your beliefs apart. Again thank you and God bless.
He has stated several times that he's never experienced this kind of relationship while reading his voice at me!!! ( Oh the lectures!) Claiming that it's all me! Well I've never either! Married 6 months and regretting it! I'm 53 as well.
@@cjohnson521 Im sorry. Glad your out. There are a couple other channels that i have found helpful in addition to Dr. Ramini. NarcDaily with Andrew and TheRoyalWe. Peace.
@@cjohnson521 You better have a plan. Your going into WWIII with him. He will use everything and everyone against you when he sees you have had enough. Get a therapist that understands narcissists. A couple other channels that have been helping along with Dr. Ramani are Narcdaily with Andrew and The royal we community. God bless.❤️🩹
Tried couple's therapy. The first session I presented the issues: constant fighting, lack of affection. But within the 3rd or 4th weekly session the narc twisted the therapy into I'm the problem and I must change and get pregnant now otherwise the narc will leave... the therapy was just another tool for the narc to try to exert selfish control...
Ramani, you were getting tough and really direct and I love it really good ammunition preparation stuff that can help us this is an awesome video again thank you!!!!
My ex went to couple’s therapy with me - exposing an almost unknown talent for acting.. I saw right through it - as did the therapist SOMETIMES.. but even though it might have looked like I was a terrible hag, our therapist was very good at explaining that there was a lot that my ex needed to learn to be involved in a relationship (especially as a family). He didn’t really want to and I think we all did as well as we possibly could - so now we’re divorced and it’s all in the past ❤ I’ve never been happier! ⭐️🙏🏼✨
We attempted therapy 3 times within 25 years. Therapy ended by the partner every time the heat got turned up. The 4 th time that partner suggested therapy, I politely replied no thank you, and added “ I think it’s best that we work on ourselves individually”. 😊
"Each of us needs to manage our own emotions," is the best response I can think of - when a maelstrom of N confusion is spiraling and looking to land near me. It serves to acknowledge the need for emotional separateness, responsibility, and distinction of individual personhood. When the first signs of dysregulation, anger, and unusual to extreme behavior have begun escalating, this response reminds me to quickly and kindly disengage with my integrity intact. It's a healthy measure in avoiding the pitfall of personalizing and reacting to the unfortunate external N force. This is affirming to me: I am my own unique inner resource - capable of returning to myself, emotionally, morally, etc. I choose to express, examine and manage myself according to my beliefs and rights.
My ex wife told me that the couple’s therapist told her that I have BPD. I was FURIOUS. I refused to go to the next session. I overheard the couple’s therapist talking about me to my ex wife, so I told my ex wife to leave me alone when she kept trying to get me to join. I caved and joined anyways, and the couples therapist says “I heard you say that I talk shit about you” and I replied “Yeah, because you do.” This apparently offended her and she started berating me. I got up and left. Another time, I was trying to talk about my experiences as a mixed race person and she compared her high school experience as a white person in a predominantly black school to mine. Worst “therapist” I’ve ever been to, and I’ve trialed several!!
Thank you so much for educating people- years ago this is exactly what happened, the therapist put me on medication and not my husband, the narcissist. Thankfully, I am no longer with him, and I understand so much more. At the time I did not even know about narcissism God bless you and thank you again.
I’m a therapist and have recently started seeing a client recently out of a narcissistic relationship. Your videos help me better be present with them, thank you!
This is great advice for those who are still in a narc relationship. I tried couples therapy with my narc numerous times. The therapists were amazing and saw my ex narc for who he was. They championed for me, I remember both of them telling me to leave the room and take a short walk down the hallway, hearing them read my ex the riot act for his stubbornness, etc. The think I keep thinking about is why did I stay? Yes, I know why, narcissistic family, etc., it was a set up to marry a narc. I do believe that these therapists really did their best to help me see that my ex was never going to change. I just hung in there, because I am an empath, an optimist, a rescuer, and it was so fringing hard for me to give up. Never again. So, even with a great therapist who sees your narc for who they are, we need to be ready to see the truth and learn how to leave. I finally did 6 years ago after over a decade of planning how to safely escape. Life is so much better now.
Haha! Yes! When the therapist did “his and her” sessions, it became clear in our next session together that he had painted me as unhinged emotionally and it came out in that session that the years married to me were the worst of his life because of my depressions and emotional outbursts. The therapist never interceded as he berated and blamed me for several minutes straight. The therapist then suggested that we work on better communication. After I put an end to these so called sessions, every argument afterward and to this day ends in him shouting, “you know that this is because of your inability to communicate!” I call it therapist fodder.
Yup. I should have seen the red flags waving when, in my individual session (narc didn't see the value of attending one of those), EVERY piece of information I provided (including childhood abuse as family scapegoat, numerous non-disputed examples of emotional and financial abuse in the marriage, etc) was met with the therapist's conclusions about MY pathology and sympathy for the narc. The therapist glitched out when, a few couples sessions in, I asked if she didn't find it strange that I could take responsibility for things, but the narc had yet to acknowledge even one transgression without justifying how he was actually the victim (eg, of quitting a job without warning when I was home with 3 preschoolers). She accused me of lacking empathy, and didn't think it fair to expect a man to take responsibility for supporting children he fathered. HOW do these people get licensed to practice?!
@@lousialb8962 woah, sounds like you became the therapist and the therapist didn’t like it and used her power to satisfy herself… omg 😳 I mean she actually said that he should have no responsibility for raising the kids? … oh , sounds like what my boys other family says. I have been villanized for leaving a drug addicted father . I should have gone on welfare . To this day it makes perfect sense to them 🤔🙄
@@user-vt9kd4no8j I'm glad you did the right thing for yourself and your kids! Good for you! Don't listen to the crazies. Therapist and narc really thought it was mean if I thought he should stay in a job he didn't like. They saw nothing wrong with his not considering his wife and children at all. Or maybe it was mean to burden me to be the sole breadwinner (contrary to the agreed plan that I would stay home until the children were all in school full time) and still be the primary (let's call it what it was: sole) caregiver and do all the housework and cooking and shopping. Why didn't I LIKE being his slave? Gosh, there must really be something wrong with me not to fully appreciate a great guy like that! 🤪
The only good thing that came of therapy from the brief time in it was when she said staying in the relationship would mean that I needed to accept him as he was. She did not see the narcissism, and I felt she thought it was all my fault. This was way before internet info, but that ONE thing I can NOW look back on as helpful. I got out. He did have someone in the wings. He moved her in so fast I have to believe that. Glad that is all in the past now. Thanks Dr. R.
I lived this. I watched the narc pull out all the stops to win over the counselor to triangulate against me. The therapist became the-rape-ist. It was that bad. Get the *uck out.
Early in my narc research we went to couples counseling. It was such a disaster I almost gave up on all counseling. H and counselor became buds and I was told to repair the marriage I HAD to be willing to be hurt again. My fault. My now and new individual counselor was horrified at that but said it wasn’t that rare. That H was a master manipulator. Yup. It feels so so good to be finally seen. Thank you so much for your vids. They are truly lifesaving
Actual statement from my sisters therapist when we tried this to address my sisters abuse, "If you think your sister is so abusive, why would you want a relationship with her anyways?" And the therapist actually sat there staring at me expecting me to respond to that.
A friend of mine is married to a narc. He mandated that the therapist have a PhD, was a man, and had a CV similar to a lead doctor at a large hospital. And it had to be someone he approved of; yet he would not do any of the research or vetting. They went to their first session. The therapist leaned toward the narc at first but then saw the light and called the narc out on his BS in session 3. My friend’s narc husband then told his wife to go to therapy because she was the one that needed fixing not him. He called and told the therapist this too. He never went back to therapy again.
Went once years ago and he sat there unresponsive. Never went back..thank god! Hopefully therapists will be learning now about how to deal with narcissism.
This happened with my FIL. He tried couple's therapy with his Narc wife and it backfired. She stopped going when the therapist tried holding her accountable and she got worse at home. FIL had to put her out of the house and she was out for blood after that. She blindsided him with divorce that she had planned for months. She tried to ruin his business and bankrupt him in the separation hearings and everything. She thinks she won, but I think FIL is the one who came out on top now that he's not putting up with her abuse and demands.
Omg i had to pause the video to comment. I asked to go to couples therapy and he said “why waste time on a therapist. I will be our therapist”. This worsened the nightmare I was dealing with because he would lecture me on every action, word or expression all the time (which he did before anyway but it tripled). Then we were in a therapy session once ( with a friend who was kindly helping us) and I was asked what i was looking to change with him and he was asked the same question. I went first and gave a list. When it was his turn his only item was “ i want her to be happy”. I ended up looking like a nagging horrible nit picking person. That was not the end. As soon as I got home, he spent about four hours berating me for what I said I wanted.
Wise us up, sage sister! Thanks for your courage, clarity and generosity, Dr. Ramani! You are changing our culture in a positive, somewhat painful way.
Thanks so much for the kind words, Nola! I really appreciate your support to this channel! and thank YOU for being part of this amazing community. You keep this channel growing!
I tried couples therapy with my covert narcissist and it did NOT go well. He never did the homework and eventually stopped going when we were doing it virtually at the beginning of covid. I certainly did feel like I tried everything and am now divorcing him with clarity of mind.
Don't let your words and your needs get drowned out. Don't let your partner and the therapist run out the clock to keep you from making your rhetorical points.
Goodmorning Dr. Ramini As I am listening to your video I am experiencing sadness and a lot of locked feelings from my past. I think I need somebody to talk to about my past. Thank you for all you do😢
Thank you so much for your willingness to share your knowledge. I have learned so much. I am in Mexico healing now. My dynamic is it's my grown son and I've tried it all. Here's what I now know... They don't change. Everything is a fight.
I thankfully haven’t tried couples therapy with my ex narc. I have recently discovered my mum also has narcissistic traits and so I’m having to question everything!! The gaslighting and devaluing in relationship is normal to me. I attended a group therapy 8 week programme that focused on building self worth and that being seen, heard, and valued from birth into adulthood is the key to healthy relating and having healthy self worth. Being told your not good enough, or your feelings don’t count, look at me instead is the way of the power hungry narc. And then if the therapist does this to you too, that would be devastating. Know your self worth and walk away!
O..M..G!!! You are the real deal!! ( forgive me if it sounds offensive) I’ve been watching your channel for a long time, is obvious we are watching a “pro professional”. It blows my mind how accurate you are on those patterns that are so unique to the mix of “narcissistic spectrum” that a person can have. I think there is HOPE on beat the narcissistic’s game, if you have the knowledge of who you are dealing with It’s just FUN!! Once you identify the illness, then you just watch them try different ways of getting in your nerves. I am actually dealing with a family mother malignant narcissistic ( she even brags about it) and the ramifications passed to their kids. I know!! Hell right!? Anyway all I wanted to say is Thank you for you work!!!!!…
@Austria B yes, it can be satisfying to observe how N is acting exactly as described in Dr. Ramani & others’ lectures. The understanding of this mental health disorder, helped me to feel less threatened and definitely not guilty for how he devalues me mostly verbally. I feel the pain as I suppose to, I cry when feel safe and I will not no longer let him blame me for what HE says to me. My physical pains & aches are less frequent now. No need to attack my body with the anger I feel at the abuser.
Thank you for your insight. It makes sense. They won't change so what's the use with couples therapy. You are so right when you say nobody knows your relationship better than you.
When you started talking about the heat in the therapy room I laughed! So true! I used to literally call it putting my husband on the hot seat. I did so desperately want validation from a professional to what I was going through. It’s a total waste of time. I had to learn to trust my gut and value myself! My narc stormed out of therapy once and another time the therapist threw him out and told me the cold hard truth…he couldn’t work with us because I was the only one wanting to get real.
My husband sat there looking like he hadn't the slightest idea what I was talking about, with a halo on his head. The therapist ended up screaming at me. I was just trying an intervention for my MIL who was in danger of a dangerous overdose. My husband was in total denial and my MIL almost died.
Glad I watched this all the way through! Planning on couple's counselling and admit to fantasizing it as having a witness to all the shitty things I've e experienced, and getting not only validation but vindication. For me it might be more of an exit interview than anything else.
it was so crazy going to my N mom’s therapist, she literally completely changed her personality. She played victim and gaslit the whole time. My first conversation alone after that all the hate and venom back in her voice. blaming me. I was like OHH WOW therapy is literally making it worse. She was able to manipulate the therapist and hide all the things she does behind close doors.
I drove 10 hours to a therapy session with my narc's choice of therapist. I had barely entered the room before they BOTH attacked me. I was so shocked I could not stand up for myself. Now I wonder if the "Therapist" was even as presented. He was my husband's pal pretending to be one. The level ;of damage inflicted upon me was terrible. God will judge them both someday
Our first attempt at couples therapy was a total failure. My husband is enmeshed with his malignant covert narcissistic mother, and I found out he was telling her EVERYTHING we talked about in therapy. She was reinforcing that I was the problem, and that he was the victim for having to deal with me. I quit therapy at that point. A few years later, we tried again, this time with a wonderful therapist I very carefully scouted out, and addressed the issue of sharing our personal therapy sessions with his mom, given her intrusion in our marriage was the problem in the first place. So far he has kept his promise to me our counseling confidential, and 6 months in he is finally just starting to see how much chaos she has caused in our life.
36:15 Don't expect the therapist to see it as narcissistic abuse. I'm so lucky my individual therapist was able to recognize the abuse, and she was able to help me see it on my own without telling me what it was.
38:21 My sister is a therapist. Unfortunately she did exactly this, gaslighted me to believe my anxiety was causing me to see abuse where there wasn't any. Thank God I had my own therapist and wasn't relying on my sister's 'expertise'.
before I worked out my narc is a narc, I tried everything to understand why I was so badly treated and accused of making her life miserable... yet providing me with no explanation of what I was doing wrong... so I suggested marriage counselling... she refused.. saying there was nothing wrong with her... it was all my fault... so I went alone.... and even when I described the words my narc used against me, the counsellor turned on me... so... forget therapy... I have attended a lawyer three times... determining my rights in divorce (I am not in my own country), the process.. and then finally, when things just get so bad... to start the process... and the first thing I explained to the lawyer was that he has to understand what NPD is... and how she will behave... and the lies she will tell and how convincing she is... luckily, he believed me... and he undertook some study on the issue
Couples therapist never inquired about the deeper things that were actually going on. My ex complained bitterly about my not wanting intimacy. Therapist said "if you don't feel like it on one occasion, then just schedule a different time." Truth was -- which never got surfaced due to crappy therapist -- he was nasty and abusive, and then wanted to be close. My not wanting intimacy was a symptom of how bad I felt I was being treated. Took me YEARS (and a divorce) to understand this. Therapist FAIL.
I was in a therapy with a narcissist. She was a social worker and I felt that she used therapy as her theater. It got worst when I had to go through family therapy years later with my kids. I wish that I had been vocal in letting the therapists know that she was a social worker and knew their language. . The whole process of going through therapy traumatized me .
I needed this! Went to therapy with my narcissist, and he made me look so bad to the point where she thought I was crazy .. he was so calm and knew how to talk to her. I was shocked. now he says that I am toxic and our therapist even thought so that lasted 4 months and we stopped seeing her.
you might be new to the world of narcissism learning. from the outset your goal MUST be to remove the narcissist from your life, there is NO other way to have good mental health
@@raccuia1 working towards it as we speak .. it’s not easy, especially when he tells me I’m the toxic one. Makes me feel like I don’t deserve anything.
@@Beautifullyshattered04 based on what you just said, you have a lot of work in front of you. That last sentence summed it up, your self esteem is broken and needs to be fixed.
My narcissist ex and I went...each by ourselves and together..I even told her with him there about how he choked me out...she said nothing..when I went alone she again didn't say to much and handed me a yoga book..told me i needed to relieve stress....I left never to return,completely dumbfounded... feeling like it was my fault he did it...ended up going back to my narcissist for another 9 years...until I left for good..4 years ago...these therapist have Peoples very lives in their hands. He choked me out again and was more physically abusive thru the 9 years I went back....
How common is a situation where a Narcissist goes to individual therapy, lies and projects all THEIR issues on and about YOU to the therapist...To then use as ammunition against you and as flying monkey food and as smear campaign ingredients? Ex: "My therapist says you're a Narcissist and I should have nothing to do with you". (Guess where this question came from? Yup...personal experience. I rememberfeeling completely floored, blindsided and aghast with disbelief...followed by self doubt, wondering if I really WAS the problem). Isn't this the absolute ultimate premeditated gaslighting strategy?
This happens for sure. I happened to find notes from the narcissist’s therapy sessions when I was going to pay the bill for his therapy and it was clear that he was there to garner support for being a victim of a “crazy” and “obsessive” partner. He had told his therapist outright lies! I’m SO glad I saw some of the evidence from the therapist’s notes that he was gaslighting me into thinking he was being vulnerable and honest in therapy when all he was doing was trash talking me. Crazy enough, even with evidence he BLAMED the therapist for taking “bad notes” and misrepresenting what he had said. He even called the therapist’s supervisor and complained about the therapist! Crazy!
Thank you Dr. Ramani for the raw line of “A doctor cannot heal a corpse.”
.."Get rid of him"....That's what my psychologist said the fourth time I met with her.
After testing both me and my husband, she made an appointment to see each of us separately; my husband first. When it was my turn I was positive she would tell me all the things I was doing wrong to cause him to treat me so badly. I mean, everybody thought he was soo wonderful! Sadly, me included! I truly thought everything was my fault. She continued, "He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. When you get your self-esteem up to where it should be, you wouldn't even date a man like him." Thus starting my long and arduous journey to do just that. Starting-a divorce, then years of therapy to learn why I would choose to marry a man like that. That was 30 years ago. I still think of her sometimes; what great advise.
I was so traumatised by couples therapy. I can still see and hear the therapist deciding together that I was just too sensitive. It was a horrible experience. Another time the therapist said my husband had been having an affair because of how difficult it was for him having such a sensitive and demanding wife. He was so charming in therapy.
Listening to you talking about it brings it all back.
Prayers for you. ❤️🩹
Your therapists are untrained
That is so awful! That's a horrible therapist. There are good ones I would use them personally first before a couple session
Same here. My narc was seducing our marriage therapy in front of me. I now have an incredible therapist, but losing the old one and the narc. So sorry.
I made the mistake of taking my N parent to therapy, and this is exactly what happened. He would constantly bring up MY anxiety. Then, when the therapist suggested he might be projecting other things onto me, he said "hmm I never thought about it like that.." then immediately turned and suggested I was projecting things onto him. He paid for every session to be able to say he did something, and refused to attend therapy for himself because he'd "been before" and took a psychology course in college once. Save yourself the headache, just go no contact - DON'T try therapy with a N, they'll never be accountable or have empathy for you. Their superiority complex is more important.
Sounds very much like my N mum
I had the same experience. Good advice, DON'T DO IT! Waste of time and money that can be spent on a good divorce lawyer.
Facts I tried therapy with my narcissistic family, and they ended up smearing the crap out of me, scapegoating me through devaluation, ganging up on me, using corrupt ACS(child services) workers to abuse and make fake evidence on me through corrupt documentation with fake claims, and sent me away at every opportunity when they realized their abuse doesn't work on a sensitive person(in touch with their feelings, and the feelings of others[seeks to understand others])
My mom found counseling & the bass Turd was a Pastor of whom attacked me verbally in the first ten minutes of our introduction. Dismissed or devalued my every childhood times of abuse. Blamed me for a family member sexual long term abuse as my fault. Tried to break me but instead brought me into the light of God's truth!
Hopefully in 100 years time , there will be a type of medicine to treat this. I can’t see how a genuine therapist can cure the narcissistic patterns. The narcissist won’t share the truth, they probably loose the connection with the truth and themselves anyway, and thế without the truth, the therapist will have a work with fake/ artificial information.
My narc, ex, finally relented, and we went to a couples therapy. We were in the room 20 minutes. The therapist, female, said to him something like you’re gonna control her right out of your life. At that point he decided that it wasn’t necessary to continue. He accused her of siding with me to make him look bad. He refused to allow me to get individual sessions. I did leave.
❤
Least you had a smart 1. Dumb ass we had thought my sociopathic narc wife was the victim.
When I lose hope being around the narcissist, I hear Dr Ramani in my mind. She reminds me I am not crazy and actually feels like a mom or best friend who is on your side. A truly unique and life saving channel. In my suicid#@! ideation, I realize someone knows I am a human and valuable in my existence. Thank you, Dr Ramani.
The narcissist in my life tracked down my therapist and my therapist admitted to having a long conversation about me. After that, I have not been able to trust a therapist until Dr. Ramani. Thank you for the safe space, which feels kind of ironic to say that about a UA-cam channel!
@@mbmb50 Thank you for asking. Yes, it felt very much that way. I realised then that they will go to great lengths to ensure their narrative is the only one that people hear and believe.
I'm so sorry that was your experience. I'm horrified at some of the stories I hear from people about things therapists have done. I hope you are able to regain the ability to trust a therapist so you can get the therapy you deserve
@@annakirkley3744 Thank you for your kind words.
@@mbmb50 and of professional ethics? Meaning help others by reporting the incident to the relevant professional body?
@@didntlistendad I reported it and it was her word against mine and since I was the one in therapy you can imagine how that went down.
This described my marriage to a malignant narcissist I divorced. I attempted therapy and after the first and last session he bragged to me that the therapist fell for his lies.
I had mine brag (back door threat) about getting away with choking his ex by painting her as a saucy brat who turns on her sweet innocence who in fact egged him on and he didn't do anything but scream at her. Basically saying he did choke her but convinced a court she was a hurtful mean spirited cheater who would have deserved it if he had done something but he really respects women and would never. He was quite proud.
I almost purchased a new book to give to my new therapist. (I'm trying therapy again). After hearing this video, I'll simply look for another therapist that understands narcissism to help me navigate this minefield of vulnerable narcissism. I don't know what I'd do without Dr. Ramani plus the comments. At least I know the source of this depression I live with. I'm 63 now. Twenty years ago I found myself saying, "I don't want to go home". Look, if you're young take heed to these warnings about narcissism. I went from neglectful childhood, youth, and marriage. It seemed something was off, just didn't know what it was. 33+ years later, I learned after my health began failing. Everything I believed about my marriage fell apart inside of me.
Don't allow yourself to get emotionally flooded to the point where you can't communicate anymore
That was gold. All of it. Been through 3 PhD psychologists and therapists that all listed NPD and BPD as specialties, and yet you covered my experiences with each one of them. And as a side note, it's really sad sitting back and just seeing everything in it's simplicity: a victim of narcissistic abuse is going to therapy out of love to save something they shouldn't have to, a relationship that the narcissist had no problem destroying and no interest in repairing, and then the hopeful victim gets gaslighted by both their abuser and therapist... How much love, abuse, pain, suffering, hope, money, time, and exhaustion is given to save something and someone who never did, never can, and never would genuinely love you back? It's insane. I get it, we all have too much empathy, but at what cost? No sufficient change in them, and instead of progressing, we digress. Marriage and relationships are for the progression of both. These relationships?, haha. Abusers aren't our blessings, supports, or advocates. Probably in an unhealthy way, I'm glad in one sense that I fought to the death loving, hoping, and trying to save my relationship so my conscience feels clearer, but also want to throw up because I shouldn't have, and knowing I gave up all my best youthful years to abuse when I could have had love, peace, joy, liberating freedom, fun without fear, and trust without doubt. I'm still in the middle of divorce, but this time around I'm going to look for someone that's already done the work, and not try to marry hopeful potential.
I sincerely wish you all the very best for the rest of your life. I'm very sorry for what you went through (it's all too familiar). The take away is that you've proven to yourself what you're made of. You can trust your good heart, and leave the crazy-making guilt where it belongs: with people incapable of giving or receiving love. I hope you frequently remind yourself of the tremendous strength and resilience it takes to be still standing and decent now; claim that credit, and let it empower your confidence
Adam, I feel every word of your comment. Thank you for encapsulating in written form your experience... which unfortunately is the experience of many of us.
Beautifully written, brilliantly clear-eyed and monumentally helpful for those suffering through life with a narcissist. Your response is a gift of healing & beacon of hope for others.
I truly wish for you to have joy, health, healing, love, and happiness in your next relationship.
Well said Adam, best to you, you will continue to heal and grow.
During my tumultuous divorce, my ex-narc chose a "Christian" marriage counselor and met with him beforehand, then in our session together, he used all of the magic Christian key words and completely won over the therapist. The therapist basically said that I'm a lost cause and ended up telling me that I could leave and he would finish the session with just my ex.
It was like watching a terrible hallmark movie. My ex had the tears in his eyes and humble demeanor.
On a happy note, yesterday was my 6 year anniversary of being SINGLE 🤗🤗🤗
My ex should have no less than 2 little golden statues for dynamic performances.
This mades me so mad as a new Christian. A man is it LOVE as a woman is to RESPECT is the modern Christian teaching. And Narc are NOT loving unconditionally anyone but themselves so you are off the hook with respect and that point and submit was made up my a Communal Narc I am sure!!
@@jackiep5009as a Christian, when he said he found faith I hoped our marriage would heal (after betrayal) and start to thrive. But God was used against me:-(
Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for just stating the obvious…these relationships cannot be fixed. I believe that is true. When I stopped fawning over my spouse and started saying no to his constant demands, he started to lose it regularly and the narcissistic rage started showing up. I’m done and can’t thank you enough for your videos! They have saved many lives I’m sure! Peace is worth it! You don’t need to live with abuse! 💜🙏
I first went to a therapist at age 15. I experienced horrific dizzy spells unexplainable to blood tests, glucose, ENT, etc. I saw the therapist once, when she claimed I was articulate poised- but, requested to see my parents. Mother was game, NPD father went once, refusing to return (Mom said she cried, father wouldn't listen, therapist stops him). This was in the 70's. These videos reveal unhealthy dynamics of growing up in a house of narcissism. I was in the middle of immature parents, suffered eating disorders, shame. Now, sixty, working on reparenting, self-compassion, rediscovering the me that got lost, destroyed. Thank you for a place to understand the mess, feel validation & actually fit in.
You absolutely nailed it, my experience in therapy with a narc in the first 3 minutes. Therapists totally taken in while I was the unhinged one. No one asked how did I get this way. 30+ years of marriage before I finally worked out that our disfunction was not only down to me being an unloveable person.
"A doctor cannot heal a corpse" Love that line.
praise KEK!!! a victim of psychopathic narcs...
Hi Dr. Ramani, just wanted to say that your voice and words have become a source of comfort for me. It’s hard work to put out content as regularly as you do, and I just wanted to show appreciation for all your hard work. Ignore the haters, you’re amazing❤
I ended up with a therapist with my ex who, looking back now, was a narcissist himself. I told him that it wasn't my job to always lift up my ex husband when he was down and he screamed at me with "oh yes it is!" I was so taken back but I thought I was so horrible for not doing my "duty" as a wife. He pushed and pushed until I let my ex back. He was so nice and made food and helped clean the house and then 2 weeks later everything was back to square one. I was beside myself with bitterness and hopelessness because I felt completely trapped. Finally left a year ago and thought I would leave with empty hands and no support but this year has been eye opening and refreshing like I never thought possible. Tell your story but never, I mean NEVER to someone that doesn't pick a side. If they're your partner or ex partner's friend, they are NOT YOURS.
Our therapist fell for him. Told me how to dance around him. Last time I got up and walked out never returned.
Good morning everyone may today bring you some peace
Thank you ,peace it's all I pray for nearly 15 years of pain .Happy holidays.
OMG, my mother-in-law did this to a psychiatrist who was evaluating her mental health!!
Once we got into the car, she said, "Well that was a complete waste of time!"
Yup, ex refused to ever go to therapy until I actually left, then he thought he would get me back! Yup, he definitely thought all of the relationship problems were just mine, that he was perfect. He thought I wanted a divorce because he said I couldn't get a couch I had wanted! But when I even tried mediation instead of an attorney he wouldn't honor what he had agreed to in person. He went through 3 attorneys. Yes, I learned I needed a witness for every interaction. I finally ended up in individual therapy at the suggestion of an attorney. Thank goodness!
Thank you🙏 I wish I had access to all this information sooner. I'm a huge believer in therapy, and when my ex started abusing me like this my first line of defense was counseling.
After only three visits she spoke to me privately and told me to get me, and my child out of there as soon as possible. It's been a nightmare ever since I left him. Now I'm dealing with parental alienation, I'm trying to find help without success. My daughter and I have just become so desperate for help, but trying to get any interventions just impossible since the people we rely on are unaware of how these kinds of issues affect the whole family.
He remarried, and I thought that the abuse would subside. It didn't 😞
Now he's abusing all of us, but since people can't physically see marks from the abuse they think it's not happening. It's hard to watch him do this to another person, and keep finding new victims. He openly cheats, and had even started moving into a separate home with another woman away from his new wife. It's just sick.
I use these videos to help support our teenage daughter that we share because I don't know what else to do.
Again, thank you🙏
Spot on once again. Over the years three different therapists. The first two were the run of the mill relational types that really didn't help at all. The last one had her nailed after one session together he wanted to she us separately. He would see her 2-3 times and then ask for both of us to come in. He was "getting" it and just as you said, she recognized the jig was up and refused to go anymore.
You are right, all I wanted was a witness to what I was experiencing because outside of the home she mostly kept it together. She really was not charismatic like many but mostly pleasant enough that no one really would suspect or believe what I was being subject to at home. The exception came on a visit to my out-of-state parents home when she lost it in front of the whole family and no one was spared from her verbal rath. She even tried to provoke a physical confrontation with two family members. Now I had witnesses, witnesses that loved me and, in retrospect, knew I was not happy but had no clue to the depth of my despair. It was the beginning of planning for an exit strategy which culminated in me leaving about a year and half later.
For the better part of 17 years I was not allowed to have emotions or feelings that I could share in the home. What does one do with those emotions? No one wants to hear a man whining about such things and I could not afford an ongoing relationship with a therapist. So, I journaled----------a LOT. It is not the same as talking to an empathetic person but at least these emotions, feelings and thoughts were not forever trapped inside. I stopped journaling 20+ years ago when the relationship ended. I recently moved and found the notebooks full of my writings. I gave them to my son with a box of other things. I didn't tell him what was in the box but just said there was some personal stuff he might be interested in, or not, and to do whatever he thought best with them. If he has read them or parts of them he has not let on that he did so. I didn't want to throw them away because they were such a huge part of my life during those years. And, I didn't want to bring them into my present marriage. So, I chose to give them to someone who also lived in the same home as a child (now 40) and realizes how dysfunctional his mother is. I'd love to hear his reactions to what I had written but will not bring it up. I honestly don't know what all was written during those many years ago. I only once went back and read some of the entries and that was at least 15 years ago.
That was brilliant to give those journals . Luckily for me or not I am bipolar so I had remained in therapy for 24 years and on meds so I believed in teaching my four children on NPD as soon as I knew (23 years) because I taught my children about bipolar and my middle child is bipolar . I began sending Dr. Ramani and others to my kids . When my divorce lawyer says don’t say narcissist to kids . I am like ooop too late lol . As they learned (3 years later) they began to seek their own therapy and today we are very close and he isn’t taken seriously too much because he just never bonded to his kids . I love the idea of journals given to your child that was brilliant and respectful !
My wife is a narcissist. We started getting counseling through our church. First it was mentoring from other couples. The minute she'd hear something she took as a criticism of her, she'd stop going. Then it was with the pastor that ran the counseling. That stopped when they pointed out changes she needed to make. Then professional marriage counseling. It took 2 sessions for her to realize what was going on, and recommend individual counseling for us first. I'd go, she wouldn't.
Recently, after quitting all of those, my wife tried the typical passive aggressive bullying of "are we going to do marriage counseling, or do you want to start talking to lawyers". When I said lawyers are probably the only option at this point, she...blew...up. That continued until she realized she had no chance of getting the house or alimony. Now she's hoping I'll drop all of this if she's nice enough in the short term. That might have worked 3 years ago. Not so much now.
Mine looked like a kicked puppy when we got into the therapist's office. At home she spat venom.
There was one time the therapist straight up asked us to be vulnerable to each other telling her how she truly makes me feel when she says specifically hurtful things and what my deepest fears were, meanwhile my body was screaming, NO, DON'T TELL HER ANYTHING. It actually made me so nauseous I completely disassociated. She looked happy and in hindsight gave her more buttons to push
The two-faced behavior is all the proof you need that they KNOW what they do is wrong.
OMG, I had the same exact thing happen from couples therapy. And yes, my wife used it as ammunition to use against me every chance she could afterward.
Well said:
“A Dr can not heal a corpse” 🎯
Narcissist will not or can not self-reflect because they are empty on the inside!
Years ago we went to a couple therapy. At the end of the first session, the therapist whispered to me RUN FAST...... At the time I was confused and not sure. Years later I understood what she meant. I should have listened to her....
Same. One session with one therapist 25 years ago who saw it immediately. The intervention and quick advice was, however, unprofessional and ineffective, unfortunately. Took me many more years to figure it all out. Hindsight is 20/20
Thank you for talking about this important topic
Wasted lots of time and energy in couples therapy
Just another exercise in manipulation and denial of the lies
I had to walk out of one therapists office because she was so absolutely clueless to his lying , she attacked me for being suspicious, I should have gave up completely then, my mistake,
These kind of relationships are toxic and painful , and hopeless
I'm still in the process of healing
Thank you for the compassionate and informative channel
We’ve had 8 therapists over our 24 year marriage. You are so right that couples therapy does not work in these situations. Our last therapist yelled at me several times towards the end and when I told him his methods are not working because he only saw my spouse 1 hour a week and I was around her the other 167 hours, things got worse. Our last session, he looked my wife in the eye and said he can’t help us because I wouldn’t emote. Then he opened his office door and said we had to leave. We went to him pretty much weekly for six months and since we could not afford his sessions and he did not want to deal with insurance, he agreed to 50 dollars per session. Be careful if this is presented to you….. you get what you pay for!
@Trayc Thorn thank you 🙏 for your post. In our marriage of 46 years we had therapy with 12 couple’s counselors. All advices were directed at me, the upset wife. The last marriage counselor raised his voice and glared at me when he said: “Don’t you see he is TRYING his best!!!” This was the last session for me. Narcissist decided not to go back either. Best wishes to us, misunderstood spouses trying to save the marriage that probably never existed.
@@gorunsko31 You are welcome AND you are a trooper 46 years!! Wow you must have superpowers. The things that have helped me the most( besides this channel and other like it) 1. Radical Acceptance 2. Realistic Expectations 3. Stoicism. All the best and stay strong 💪
@@tgolf4fun these are good tips. Thanks. Numer # 3 will be the most challenging, but worthy of practicing.
@@gorunsko31 They were all difficult and I spent many days in pain, but I am on the other side so keep pushing. The principles of Stoicism help with life in general especially the idea below:
We Don’t Control External Events, We Only Control Our Thoughts, Opinions, Decisions and Duties!!
@@tgolf4fun I have more experience of practicing radical acceptance than stoicism, but I am an eager student. I agree with your statement. Yoga 🧘♀️ lead me to Buddhism… I cannot say I am Buddhist, but I learned enough to appreciate its principles. (Forgive me any errors - I am non native speaker of English.) Namaste 🙏
I attended multiple sessions with with my narcissistic coparent with two separate therapists that she actually initiated. But once the facts became clear and she realized she could no longer successfully gaslight them either, she promptly discontinued therapy each time. The point being, even if you land a good therapist that can see through their game, dont expect the narcisist to ever take accountability or change. They will more likely just keep shopping for a new audience until they can find one they can more easily manipulate to help validate thier false reality.
Exactly my experience.
I've been to family therapy with a narcissistic dad. I was branded as the difficult teenager, and the therapist was definitely taking his bait. It definitely did more harm than good.
Same but the therapist took my side, which meant that therapy was over.
@@David-eu1ms I'm sorry this happened to you, how old were you?
@@maggiepie8810 I was fifteen, my folks were convinced that the therapist would be on their side, until he wasn't jaja.
@@David-eu1ms Therapists rarely side with parents over an underage child or teenager. It's almost as if it would be cruel and unprofessional of them to do that. 🙃
What a nightmare for a scapegoated child. The father is paying the therapist so of course the therapist is going to support the family narrative.
WOW! I wish i had known this. My husband is a covert narcissist and we tried therapy. We did it together and individually and i noticed as soon as he had one session alone with her our next couple session he was making eyes with her and saying see. After that I felt like she was looking at me like i was awful and we stopped because i could see it was not helping. Honestly, Your videos have helped more than anything else ever has. Now i see what he is and the tips and tools have made all the differences in the world. I can see when he is baiting me and i don't fall for it anymore. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. Most importantly I can see how i have changed myself to try to make him happy and i don't like the changes in me and I know it's time to leave.
I did leave mine 7 months ago. Healing😢😊
So true, my ex pulled the - friend/therapist card on me and it completely worked to her advantage, he even tried to convince me it was 50% my fault for her lies and infidelity, What's even worse is it was one of the pastors at our church who was also holding water for her new supply who also happened to be a large donor to that church. Funny thing is the oldest lay pastor who seen that I was getting snowed was barred from speaking with me by the head pastor. Money does some strange things to "holy" people huh?
This is so true so accurate and so painful!! I wish I had known this years ago. So thankful you are educating the masses . Thank you so much Dr Ramani and sending love and strength for your very important mission . ❤️
We had couples therapy…. BUT, I also insisted on individual therapy apart! How else can a therapist see each individual as they’re own person? This way, the therapist gets a little more of a well rounded view… what we were like apart and what we were like together. My husband thought that sounded totally fair, especially since he thought that in my private sessions that I was lying. Within 3 months, the therapist took me aside and offered to call me an attorney. My husband was a covert/ malignant narcissist. He informed me that I needed to get out of this.
We tried it with someone who was not licensed or experienced and had just an IFS certification or something. The therapist himself revealed he was basically stalking a woman he was interested in. My ex manipulated him quickly and he thought he was an angel, even though my ex would roll his eyes, laugh at me, cut me when it was my turn to talk. He was abusing me right in front of this counselor/coach person. Then he would go home and talk and rage about how much he loathed all the women in his life. I am SO glad to be done with all of that.
I had this experience with two different relationships...the therapist over-identified with the narc providing the narc with more ammunition for continued abuse. This was deeply traumatizing for me and it took years for me to trust again. Actually, I'm still working on it.
The issue is that overall, therapists are very general. Basic, bare bones courses with zero extended specialty courses and certifications. Trauma therapy must be done carefully and very differently than other therapy. Narcissist abuse is also not known in a therapy room.
It's a field that needs a huge re-evaluation in the education and licensing. My experience.
Thank you so much for this one Dr. Ramani. I've experienced this, not only in therapy, but in most of the mutual relationships involving the abuser. Couples therapy was a huge set back, because he used the things learned in therapy to use against me. It was awful. I see it clearly after I got out, but at the time it just reinfor ced the abuse. There was an exercise asking us to list nice things about eachother, I did, and when it was his turn, he refused to say a word... at least at that moment, I understood there was more wrong than I thought and it opened my eyes. I began to seek private therapy and I found a video with Dr Ramani. I spent 6 months observing the abuser and it validated my suspicion and with a therapists help, I got out safely 🙏
One therapist asked us to make a list of things we could improve in. My list was two pages long (I know I am not perfect). He didn't have a list. When he was asked where his list was, he replied that he couldn't think of anything to to put on it! Because, you know, he is perfect already and needs no improvement, while obviously all our problems are 100% my fault.
Once again you have hit the nail on the head! All of these things happened to me when I suggested my narc brother and I see a therapist to ‘please our mother’
Big mistake on my part. Brother came in and charmed the hell out of the therapist and turned the situation into a nightmare for me. Therapist was enthralled by narc brother.
Sorry that that happened to you when you suggested therapy. Sounds liek your brother is a real A-hole.
@@brianb7869 thanks. He is. I must say I’ve learned a lot, mostly detrimental to me but now that I understand (thanks Dr R!) and my own sister in law, who is a therapist, I am making appropriate choices on my own behalf.
@@smokyo7855 again sorry that your knowledge was detrimento to you.. it is great that your sister in law is such a talented therapist! keep growing.. keep going!
My sister's husband won't go near a therapist because there is nothing wrong with him! Glad there are therapists like you who limit their practice to a specialty. His list of demands on her are endless. The latest is, she is wrong for sleeping until 9am on Saturdays...or anytime he is at home awake or wants to talk with her on the phone. He recently went ballistic and intimidated my niece into leaving work to check on her because she didn't answer his calls for 30 minutes while she was visiting her daughter in an distant city. You would never know it by meeting him. He is relatively quiet when not alone with her and seldom expresses an opinion. My sister is FINALLY ready to get therapy for herself after her daughter, with whom she was very enmeshed has gotten into therapy and made it known she is moving to another state.Your work has made her aware of how important it is to find the right person. Thank you! Sending healing energy your way for all you deal with.
My husband is like this, if he can’t get ahold of you (or you don’t pay him enough attention) when he decides he needs it. It gets really old
@@KatieLHall-fy1hw I think it is about control and there is never enough, because the control masks an insatiable need to run from his inner turmoil. Over the years he has taken over every minute of her life and now in her late 60's she has a host of stress related diseases, irritable bowel, high blood pressure, Cushing’s syndrome.... He pressured her until she quit work two decades ago. She thought the stress was too much. Little did she know it would get worse. With no form of support other than a small social security check, she has few options. She even has to hide seeing a therapist. Don't let him take you there!
Such and important video, I'm so glad there are therapist out there that can see though this! Thank you so much!
Within 2 wks of new marriage I was trauma bonded w/ an outrageously frightening rage by my Narc. I was able to get the Narc to therapy & thought this will indeed be beneficial & he couldn’t handle it when confronted by a professional about the actions . The narc quit after 2x bc the narc said had no time for this therapy . I lost the 1st time in the rage that no one sees & 2nd time too & on & on - the narc’s manipulation and gaslighting and much more showed me who the narc was then & is today a slow insidious death- 26 years later I’m awake finally - thanks DR R.
My ex demanded that I go to therapy and I think I surprised her when I said absolutely and I went many times over the years … we went 6 times together and the therapist believed everything she said about me until the last session … He asked her questions like why is he wrong , why is it you feel it was his fault etc… she finally got enraged stood up and broke up with me right in front of the therapist .. when I came back the next session with out her he said I’m not supposed to tell you this but she’s a covert Narcissist .., I stuck it out with her another 6 months and the gaslighting and devaluing caused such bad arguments that she discarded me permanently cause she realized I knew to much and would be to difficult to maintain… I’m so sad cause I realize now the abuse didn’t originate with her but when I was a little boy… I’m on my path to recovery.. thank you for all the beautiful videos Dr Ramani I’ve been watching you for 5 years ..you saved my life
Thank you Dr. Romani. I am going through a divorce right now. I was only married a little less than a year. I had never experienced this kind of treatment from anyone and I'm 53. Through therapy, knowledge through channels as yours, and surrounding myself with people who know me is my part. The hurt is terribly nefarious, it rips your beliefs apart. Again thank you and God bless.
He has stated several times that he's never experienced this kind of relationship while reading his voice at me!!! ( Oh the lectures!) Claiming that it's all me! Well I've never either! Married 6 months and regretting it! I'm 53 as well.
@@cjohnson521 Im sorry. Glad your out. There are a couple other channels that i have found helpful in addition to Dr. Ramini. NarcDaily with Andrew and TheRoyalWe. Peace.
@@pjpammyj4037 I'm not out yet! Planning my departure, fearful of how he'll react when I tell him or the next argument pushes me out the door.
@@cjohnson521 You better have a plan. Your going into WWIII with him. He will use everything and everyone against you when he sees you have had enough. Get a therapist that understands narcissists. A couple other channels that have been helping along with Dr. Ramani are Narcdaily with Andrew and The royal we community. God bless.❤️🩹
Tried couple's therapy. The first session I presented the issues: constant fighting, lack of affection. But within the 3rd or 4th weekly session the narc twisted the therapy into I'm the problem and I must change and get pregnant now otherwise the narc will leave... the therapy was just another tool for the narc to try to exert selfish control...
Ramani, you were getting tough and really direct and I love it really good ammunition preparation stuff that can help us this is an awesome video again thank you!!!!
My ex went to couple’s therapy with me - exposing an almost unknown talent for acting.. I saw right through it - as did the therapist SOMETIMES.. but even though it might have looked like I was a terrible hag, our therapist was very good at explaining that there was a lot that my ex needed to learn to be involved in a relationship (especially as a family). He didn’t really want to and
I think we all did as well as we possibly could - so now we’re divorced and it’s all in the past ❤ I’ve never been happier! ⭐️🙏🏼✨
So true! Exactly my experience. It made my hell even a lot hotter!
We attempted therapy 3 times within 25 years. Therapy ended by the partner every time the heat got turned up. The 4 th time that partner suggested therapy, I politely replied no thank you, and added “ I think it’s best that we work on ourselves individually”. 😊
"Each of us needs to manage our own emotions," is the best response I can think of - when a maelstrom of N confusion is spiraling and looking to land near me. It serves to acknowledge the need for emotional separateness, responsibility, and distinction of individual personhood. When the first signs of dysregulation, anger, and unusual to extreme behavior have begun escalating, this response reminds me to quickly and kindly disengage with my integrity intact. It's a healthy measure in avoiding the pitfall of personalizing and reacting to the unfortunate external N force. This is affirming to me: I am my own unique inner resource - capable of returning to myself, emotionally, morally, etc. I choose to express, examine and manage myself according to my beliefs and rights.
Another thing that happens with the narc, is their lawyers QUIT on them. Maybe that’s why so many represent themselves.
My ex wife told me that the couple’s therapist told her that I have BPD.
I was FURIOUS.
I refused to go to the next session. I overheard the couple’s therapist talking about me to my ex wife, so I told my ex wife to leave me alone when she kept trying to get me to join. I caved and joined anyways, and the couples therapist says “I heard you say that I talk shit about you” and I replied “Yeah, because you do.” This apparently offended her and she started berating me.
I got up and left.
Another time, I was trying to talk about my experiences as a mixed race person and she compared her high school experience as a white person in a predominantly black school to mine.
Worst “therapist” I’ve ever been to, and I’ve trialed several!!
Thank you so much for educating people- years ago this is exactly what happened, the therapist put me on medication and not my husband, the narcissist. Thankfully, I am no longer with him, and I understand so much more. At the time I did not even know about narcissism God bless you and thank you again.
I’m a therapist and have recently started seeing a client recently out of a narcissistic relationship. Your videos help me better be present with them, thank you!
This is great advice for those who are still in a narc relationship. I tried couples therapy with my narc numerous times. The therapists were amazing and saw my ex narc for who he was. They championed for me, I remember both of them telling me to leave the room and take a short walk down the hallway, hearing them read my ex the riot act for his stubbornness, etc. The think I keep thinking about is why did I stay? Yes, I know why, narcissistic family, etc., it was a set up to marry a narc. I do believe that these therapists really did their best to help me see that my ex was never going to change. I just hung in there, because I am an empath, an optimist, a rescuer, and it was so fringing hard for me to give up. Never again. So, even with a great therapist who sees your narc for who they are, we need to be ready to see the truth and learn how to leave. I finally did 6 years ago after over a decade of planning how to safely escape. Life is so much better now.
Haha! Yes! When the therapist did “his and her” sessions, it became clear in our next session together that he had painted me as unhinged emotionally and it came out in that session that the years married to me were the worst of his life because of my depressions and emotional outbursts. The therapist never interceded as he berated and blamed me for several minutes straight. The therapist then suggested that we work on better communication. After I put an end to these so called sessions, every argument afterward and to this day ends in him shouting, “you know that this is because of your inability to communicate!” I call it therapist fodder.
Yup. I should have seen the red flags waving when, in my individual session (narc didn't see the value of attending one of those), EVERY piece of information I provided (including childhood abuse as family scapegoat, numerous non-disputed examples of emotional and financial abuse in the marriage, etc) was met with the therapist's conclusions about MY pathology and sympathy for the narc. The therapist glitched out when, a few couples sessions in, I asked if she didn't find it strange that I could take responsibility for things, but the narc had yet to acknowledge even one transgression without justifying how he was actually the victim (eg, of quitting a job without warning when I was home with 3 preschoolers). She accused me of lacking empathy, and didn't think it fair to expect a man to take responsibility for supporting children he fathered. HOW do these people get licensed to practice?!
@@lousialb8962 woah, sounds like you became the therapist and the therapist didn’t like it and used her power to satisfy herself… omg 😳 I mean she actually said that he should have no responsibility for raising the kids? … oh , sounds like what my boys other family says. I have been villanized for leaving a drug addicted father . I should have gone on welfare . To this day it makes perfect sense to them 🤔🙄
@@user-vt9kd4no8j I'm glad you did the right thing for yourself and your kids! Good for you! Don't listen to the crazies.
Therapist and narc really thought it was mean if I thought he should stay in a job he didn't like. They saw nothing wrong with his not considering his wife and children at all. Or maybe it was mean to burden me to be the sole breadwinner (contrary to the agreed plan that I would stay home until the children were all in school full time) and still be the primary (let's call it what it was: sole) caregiver and do all the housework and cooking and shopping. Why didn't I LIKE being his slave? Gosh, there must really be something wrong with me not to fully appreciate a great guy like that! 🤪
The only good thing that came of therapy from the brief time in it was when she said staying in the relationship would mean that I needed to accept him as he was. She did not see the narcissism, and I felt she thought it was all my fault. This was way before internet info, but that ONE thing I can NOW look back on as helpful.
I got out. He did have someone in the wings. He moved her in so fast I have to believe that. Glad that is all in the past now. Thanks Dr. R.
Wow, wish I had known about this 3 years ago!!! Thank you so much for making this video!❤️❤️❤️
Thank you so very much for these videos. You have no idea how important these have been to me recently. Thank you Thank Thank you ❤❤❤
I lived this. I watched the narc pull out all the stops to win over the counselor to triangulate against me. The therapist became the-rape-ist. It was that bad. Get the *uck out.
....the-rape-ist..!!! I might have to steal that one!!!
I've encountered far too many of those!
Early in my narc research we went to couples counseling. It was such a disaster I almost gave up on all counseling. H and counselor became buds and I was told to repair the marriage I HAD to be willing to be hurt again. My fault. My now and new individual counselor was horrified at that but said it wasn’t that rare. That H was a master manipulator. Yup. It feels so so good to be finally seen. Thank you so much for your vids. They are truly lifesaving
Actual statement from my sisters therapist when we tried this to address my sisters abuse, "If you think your sister is so abusive, why would you want a relationship with her anyways?" And the therapist actually sat there staring at me expecting me to respond to that.
Total set up! Seriously, HOW do these people get licensed to practice?!
A friend of mine is married to a narc. He mandated that the therapist have a PhD, was a man, and had a CV similar to a lead doctor at a large hospital. And it had to be someone he approved of; yet he would not do any of the research or vetting. They went to their first session. The therapist leaned toward the narc at first but then saw the light and called the narc out on his BS in session 3. My friend’s narc husband then told his wife to go to therapy because she was the one that needed fixing not him. He called and told the therapist this too. He never went back to therapy again.
Went once years ago and he sat there unresponsive. Never went back..thank god! Hopefully therapists will be learning now about how to deal with narcissism.
This happened with my FIL. He tried couple's therapy with his Narc wife and it backfired. She stopped going when the therapist tried holding her accountable and she got worse at home. FIL had to put her out of the house and she was out for blood after that. She blindsided him with divorce that she had planned for months. She tried to ruin his business and bankrupt him in the separation hearings and everything. She thinks she won, but I think FIL is the one who came out on top now that he's not putting up with her abuse and demands.
Omg i had to pause the video to comment. I asked to go to couples therapy and he said “why waste time on a therapist. I will be our therapist”. This worsened the nightmare I was dealing with because he would lecture me on every action, word or expression all the time (which he did before anyway but it tripled). Then we were in a therapy session once ( with a friend who was kindly helping us) and I was asked what i was looking to change with him and he was asked the same question. I went first and gave a list. When it was his turn his only item was “ i want her to be happy”. I ended up looking like a nagging horrible nit picking person. That was not the end. As soon as I got home, he spent about four hours berating me for what I said I wanted.
Wise us up, sage sister! Thanks for your courage, clarity and generosity, Dr. Ramani! You are changing our culture in a positive, somewhat painful way.
Thanks so much for the kind words, Nola! I really appreciate your support to this channel! and thank YOU for being part of this amazing community. You keep this channel growing!
@@DoctorRamani You can always get a lot more done with a difficult truth than with an easy lie! 🌷🎶🙏❤🎄
I tried couples therapy with my covert narcissist and it did NOT go well. He never did the homework and eventually stopped going when we were doing it virtually at the beginning of covid. I certainly did feel like I tried everything and am now divorcing him with clarity of mind.
I remember years ago a therapist chastising me saying how glad I was my parents were apart. Didn't go back!
Ex suggested therapy, found the therapist. In therapy , ex walked out & went to bar around corner…..and we divorced shortly after. 😂
I got excited because my narcissist parents are also therapists. I was hoping this was a very niche video. 😂
I'm seeing a new therapist. He's younger, seems to be open minded. I am worried about the lies. Thank you for your videos, information and caring.
Don't let your words and your needs get drowned out. Don't let your partner and the therapist run out the clock to keep you from making your rhetorical points.
Goodmorning Dr. Ramini
As I am listening to your video I am experiencing sadness and a lot of locked feelings from my past. I think I need somebody to talk to about my past. Thank you for all you do😢
Thank you your channel is very educational for me.
Thank you so much for your willingness to share your knowledge. I have learned so much. I am in Mexico healing now. My dynamic is it's my grown son and I've tried it all. Here's what I now know... They don't change. Everything is a fight.
Always good Dr. Ramani
Dr Ramani, thank you! I am amazed how 💯% correct this video is. Pretty much EVERYTHING you described is what I experienced on session one with a narc.
I thankfully haven’t tried couples therapy with my ex narc. I have recently discovered my mum also has narcissistic traits and so I’m having to question everything!! The gaslighting and devaluing in relationship is normal to me. I attended a group therapy 8 week programme that focused on building self worth and that being seen, heard, and valued from birth into adulthood is the key to healthy relating and having healthy self worth. Being told your not good enough, or your feelings don’t count, look at me instead is the way of the power hungry narc. And then if the therapist does this to you too, that would be devastating. Know your self worth and walk away!
I wish I had know about this before we started couple's counselling.
Dr Ramani, you I know it sounds wired but you are my only friend who understands me.
Dr. Ramani said “ A Doctor cannot heal a corpse “ WOW BARS!!
O..M..G!!! You are the real deal!! ( forgive me if it sounds offensive) I’ve been watching your channel for a long time, is obvious we are watching a “pro professional”. It blows my mind how accurate you are on those patterns that are so unique to the mix of “narcissistic spectrum” that a person can have. I think there is HOPE on beat the narcissistic’s game, if you have the knowledge of who you are dealing with It’s just FUN!! Once you identify the illness, then you just watch them try different ways of getting in your nerves. I am actually dealing with a family mother malignant narcissistic ( she even brags about it) and the ramifications passed to their kids. I know!! Hell right!?
Anyway all I wanted to say is Thank you for you work!!!!!…
@Austria B yes, it can be satisfying to observe how N is acting exactly as described in Dr. Ramani & others’ lectures. The understanding of this mental health disorder, helped me to feel less threatened and definitely not guilty for how he devalues me mostly verbally. I feel the pain as I suppose to, I cry when feel safe and I will not no longer let him blame me for what HE says to me. My physical pains & aches are less frequent now. No need to attack my body with the anger I feel at the abuser.
Okay so this is crazy: my narcissist sister is a therapist. I feel so bad for whoever she treats.
I hope she f them up reeeeally good!
My Narc ex is a therapist. As from Dr Ramani I do not trust the profession
Thank you for your insight. It makes sense. They won't change so what's the use with couples therapy. You are so right when you say nobody knows your relationship better than you.
When you started talking about the heat in the therapy room I laughed! So true! I used to literally call it putting my husband on the hot seat. I did so desperately want validation from a professional to what I was going through. It’s a total waste of time. I had to learn to trust my gut and value myself! My narc stormed out of therapy once and another time the therapist threw him out and told me the cold hard truth…he couldn’t work with us because I was the only one wanting to get real.
My husband sat there looking like he hadn't the slightest idea what I was talking about, with a halo on his head. The therapist ended up screaming at me. I was just trying an intervention for my MIL who was in danger of a dangerous overdose. My husband was in total denial and my MIL almost died.
Glad I watched this all the way through! Planning on couple's counselling and admit to fantasizing it as having a witness to all the shitty things I've e experienced, and getting not only validation but vindication. For me it might be more of an exit interview than anything else.
it was so crazy going to my N mom’s therapist, she literally completely changed her personality. She played victim and gaslit the whole time. My first conversation alone after that all the hate and venom back in her voice. blaming me. I was like OHH WOW therapy is literally making it worse. She was able to manipulate the therapist and hide all the things she does behind close doors.
I drove 10 hours to a therapy session with my narc's choice of therapist. I had barely entered the room before they BOTH attacked me. I was so shocked I could not stand up for myself. Now I wonder if the "Therapist" was even as presented. He was my husband's pal pretending to be one. The level ;of damage inflicted upon me was terrible. God will judge them both someday
Our first attempt at couples therapy was a total failure. My husband is enmeshed with his malignant covert narcissistic mother, and I found out he was telling her EVERYTHING we talked about in therapy. She was reinforcing that I was the problem, and that he was the victim for having to deal with me. I quit therapy at that point. A few years later, we tried again, this time with a wonderful therapist I very carefully scouted out, and addressed the issue of sharing our personal therapy sessions with his mom, given her intrusion in our marriage was the problem in the first place. So far he has kept his promise to me our counseling confidential, and 6 months in he is finally just starting to see how much chaos she has caused in our life.
36:15 Don't expect the therapist to see it as narcissistic abuse.
I'm so lucky my individual therapist was able to recognize the abuse, and she was able to help me see it on my own without telling me what it was.
38:21 My sister is a therapist. Unfortunately she did exactly this, gaslighted me to believe my anxiety was causing me to see abuse where there wasn't any. Thank God I had my own therapist and wasn't relying on my sister's 'expertise'.
before I worked out my narc is a narc, I tried everything to understand why I was so badly treated and accused of making her life miserable... yet providing me with no explanation of what I was doing wrong... so I suggested marriage counselling... she refused.. saying there was nothing wrong with her... it was all my fault... so I went alone.... and even when I described the words my narc used against me, the counsellor turned on me... so... forget therapy... I have attended a lawyer three times... determining my rights in divorce (I am not in my own country), the process.. and then finally, when things just get so bad... to start the process... and the first thing I explained to the lawyer was that he has to understand what NPD is... and how she will behave... and the lies she will tell and how convincing she is... luckily, he believed me... and he undertook some study on the issue
You are amazing Dr Ramani. Thank you for all of your videos which have helped me so much. I hope you have an awesome day 🤗😃🙏
Woo hoo! Exactly what happened to me!!!
Omg I had a King Baby in session today 😮 it was exhausting
Couples therapist never inquired about the deeper things that were actually going on. My ex complained bitterly about my not wanting intimacy. Therapist said "if you don't feel like it on one occasion, then just schedule a different time." Truth was -- which never got surfaced due to crappy therapist -- he was nasty and abusive, and then wanted to be close. My not wanting intimacy was a symptom of how bad I felt I was being treated. Took me YEARS (and a divorce) to understand this. Therapist FAIL.
I was in a therapy with a narcissist. She was a social worker and I felt that she used therapy as her theater. It got worst when I had to go through family therapy years later with my kids. I wish that I had been vocal in letting the therapists know that she was a social worker and knew their language. . The whole process of going through therapy traumatized me .
I am so glad my ex said therapy was stupid and we should be able to fix our problems ourselves.
I needed this! Went to therapy with my narcissist, and he made me look so bad to the point where she thought I was crazy .. he was so calm and knew how to talk to her. I was shocked. now he says that I am toxic and our therapist even thought so that lasted 4 months and we stopped seeing her.
you might be new to the world of narcissism learning. from the outset your goal MUST be to remove the narcissist from your life, there is NO other way to have good mental health
Same thing happened to me. She told him he had “the right to be happy.” Then looked over at me and, “Oh, you do too.” 😮
@@raccuia1 working towards it as we speak .. it’s not easy, especially when he tells me I’m the toxic one. Makes me feel like I don’t deserve anything.
@@SR-wo3fh exactly what I told him.
@@Beautifullyshattered04 based on what you just said, you have a lot of work in front of you. That last sentence summed it up, your self esteem is broken and needs to be fixed.
My narcissist ex and I went...each by ourselves and together..I even told her with him there about how he choked me out...she said nothing..when I went alone she again didn't say to much and handed me a yoga book..told me i needed to relieve stress....I left never to return,completely dumbfounded... feeling like it was my fault he did it...ended up going back to my narcissist for another 9 years...until I left for good..4 years ago...these therapist have Peoples very lives in their hands. He choked me out again and was more physically abusive thru the 9 years I went back....
How common is a situation where a Narcissist goes to individual therapy, lies and projects all THEIR issues on and about YOU to the therapist...To then use as ammunition against you and as flying monkey food and as smear campaign ingredients?
Ex: "My therapist says you're a Narcissist and I should have nothing to do with you".
(Guess where this question came from? Yup...personal experience. I rememberfeeling completely floored, blindsided and aghast with disbelief...followed by self doubt, wondering if I really WAS the problem).
Isn't this the absolute ultimate premeditated gaslighting strategy?
This happens for sure. I happened to find notes from the narcissist’s therapy sessions when I was going to pay the bill for his therapy and it was clear that he was there to garner support for being a victim of a “crazy” and “obsessive” partner.
He had told his therapist outright lies! I’m SO glad I saw some of the evidence from the therapist’s notes that he was gaslighting me into thinking he was being vulnerable and honest in therapy when all he was doing was trash talking me.
Crazy enough, even with evidence he BLAMED the therapist for taking “bad notes” and misrepresenting what he had said. He even called the therapist’s supervisor and complained about the therapist! Crazy!