My father said he was "afraid to be murdered for his inheritance" after I made some remarks about him putting all his money (a million + euro's) into his pension thus leaving nothing for his (grand) children. (He already said it was his goal in life to leave his children nothing when I was 10 years old ....) Although I do understand it isn't your only goal in life to make your children wealthy, I certainly do think we (and esp. the GRAND children) won't get the same chances in life that he has. After I went completely no contact after his "being murdered statement" 5 months ago he keeps telling me that he misses me and loves me. (which he has NEVER said before in my life) He don't seem to see any contradiction in this !!
@@ifoxfirei I totally hear you. Wanna get in their head a little and call them on their s*** without directly confronting them. Passive aggression under those circumstances is certainly tempting :’)
The silent treatment can also be them going somewhere for a couple of days and not responding to your calls or text. When they feel you have suffered enough they return to your depleted self. Cruel? Absolutely! But it works….. until it doesn’t because you are done with their emotional and mental abuse. Then you go NO CONTACT. 😊
My mother has done this all my life. Lasted anywhere from a few weeks to 3 years. Then my father would come and insist that I go “hug the mother” insinuating that I was always in the wrong. Finally at 50 years old I said “NO”. Eventually it came to no contact after repeatedly being told they just didn’t care about me. Bye bye. Have a nice life.
@@DJH97 I’m so sorry to hear that DJ. That was cruel and abusive to do to your own child. I’m glad you found the strength to close the door and move on.
I LOVED it when my dad would employ the silent treatment. Then we could do as we pleased and he'd keep his mouth shut. No insults. No demands. No put downs. It was a reward in our(family) case it was wonderful.
Hear hear! The best. My mother moved away & stonewalled more or less for 20 years. A blessing for us all. Then she returned out of the blue, a few months after my father died, & we were right back to living in her bizzaro world. Obvs she wasn’t entirely gone for 20 years, but it was nice that she was far away. Now we have to deal with holidays again. What a poor, sad, decrepit & incapable old lady we have on our hands now. (NOT) She’s the witch she’s always been, just closer, and sadly even more insidious.
I only deciphered my mothers personality as narcissistic recently, but before that I treated her silent treatment like her accidentally giving herself a " time out" and take that time to get things done without her hovering
I'm not a big fan of "silent treatment". I don't confuse it with quiet time which isn't controlling. In my experience silent treatment was about control and getting one's way.
Silent treatment and stonewalling ride a very thin line to grey rocking. The difference is, the silent treatment feels petty, and the goal is to hurt you and get something. With grey rocking, the goal is to avoid chaos, arguments, gaslighting, and keeping the peace. While still being open to communication, you’re just keeping it short and uninteresting. Sometimes, people on the outside might view your grey rocking as narcissistic silent treatment or stonewalling. Because the narcissist will be recruiting them. Just letting you know, in these abusive situations you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Just leave if you can.
Wow you said it better than me. Here i am 3 years out and when I hear silent treatment is narcissistic I began to doubt myself and my contribution. I ended up going silent because I could never get a word in edgewise. I’d be talked down talked over or gas lit. And I would repeat myself time and time again until I realized I was wasting my breath. I eventually went silent. But I didn’t do it to punish. I did it for my own sanity. Damned if I did and damned if I didn’t. I was verbally abusive when I talked. I was emotionally abusive when I didn’t.
I'm glad you explained this as I was thinking the same!!! I'm no contact with most of my family and Grey rock 2 of em. I don't care what it "looks like". I know what it is and that's what counts!!! #stayinghealthy
How do I find someone (therapist) help me threw this nightmare. My husband had does everything your saying and I’m seen as the unstable one and he’s the nice, strong, stable, great guy to our friends and his family and even sweet talks a therapist. I was brought up in an orphanage, no family to help me, which has give him free range to claim it’s all me. I always thought I was once the strongest women I knew, until several years into our marriage. Now I’m a shell of who I once was and no longer have any self esteem. I feel like a deer in the headlights, sometimes I can’t even breathe. NOW in my 70’s feeling so used and abused and like I’ve gone crazy etc.etc. I finally left and moved 1,500 miles away. He showed up on my door with Cancer and I took him in an cared for him for 3 years of hell and back. Now he won’t leave. And I can’t afford to leave again. I so deserve better than this an feel so hopeless ???
You're right damned if you do and damned if you don't. I was so puzzled and hurt by my sister for years and when I started listening to Dr. Ramani she has shed light on the behaviors I suffered with for years.
Dang I go through this self gaslight every time I hear these psychologists talk about behaviors i’ve done to avoid narcissists that are narcissistic tactics, the ghosting one is the absolute worst for me. I’ll ghost the narcissist but then question if i’m the narcissist.
I guess the reality is that you can't in fact stop abuse, so the only option is to learn to recognize it and do whatever you can to keep distance, boundaries, and protect yourself. ❤❤❤ Thank you so much Dr. Ramani!!!!!!!!!!!!!👍
I would love to see you do a video on reactionary abuse. Someone who purposely pushes your buttons, does things that they know will traumatize, sabotage & gaslight for the reactions they get out of you. Someone who then convinces you & everyone around that YOU are bipolar, have anger & mental issues which causes you to become isolated. A short video on facebook about it actually opened my eyes to the fact that it had been happening to me for 20yrs. It could help someone else who believes there's something wrong with them when they're actually being abused & manipulated
I was the reactive abuser in the 14 years insane marriage to the passive aggressive covert narcissist. I was so ashamed of my behavior. I screamed and shouted and ranted and raged and swore. Horrendous. Happy joyous and free since June 2017. Not one angry day!!!!
I feel like my ex really wanted that from me but we weren’t together long enough and I generally managed to remain calm and assertive. When I wasn’t feeling calm and assertive and my anxiety was close to giving me panic attacks, I’d usually exit the room and try to go calm down. But whenever I’d exit he’d follow me and often that’s when he’d start screaming his head off. I’d keep repeating things like “I need a minute to calm down.” “Stop screaming at me.” But it wouldn’t work. He’d make out I was the one with the problem lol. He’d be stood over me, screaming and genuinely stamping his foot like an angry toddler and yelling there’s something wrong with me, and I need to grow up. I wish there was the time and space to share the whole story in all of these situations because it’s absolutely insane. I was a normal, happy person. I was first trained in counselling aged 12, specially selected by my deputy head and school counsellor. I’m a psych major. I’ve a decent amount of mental health training under my belt. Nothing too impressive but just enough to sometimes, in my disbelief at how outrageous he was, have to stifle a laugh as he screamed and screamed because it was so ridiculous. I mean, one time I walked away because he’d lied right to my face, then been caught out and there he was screaming at me about it. He’d scream because he wanted to control me and I tried to stay true to myself. Say no when I mean no. The screaming would come sometimes out of the blue and sometimes after failed efforts to manipulate me. Eventually I made a terrible mistake and clearly defined his behaviour as abusive to his face. That’s when the threats of physical violence started. That’s when it got really dangerous to be around him.
That happened to me also. My mother self-diagnosed me as bi-polar and filed an affidavit I'm support of my now ex-husband in family court. He pushed my buttons Big Time to get a reaction out of me. Telling my entire family I was crazy. That was a very traumatic time in my life.
I think the silent treatment often comes from the narc feeling genuinely hurt and insulted when his or her demands are not met, as if you have done something seriously awful to them, like in a normal person, you kicked their puppy or something. I think the silent treatment is also an attempt of the narc to re-gain absolute control over communication when in active communication that control has slipped. All narcissistic behaviours in the end aim at controlling the victim.
Let's get real ■ their [c]atch is their prize; they do not want to loose what they desire. You bet it can get ugly if they see what they want 'starting' to walk away.
Silent treatment: they ignore you and psychologically make you anxious. Mind bending abuse. You cave. They win. Back to full control. Such a game for them.
I just asked my mother why she lied about me. Had the proof in an email right in front of her. That brought silent treatment for 3 years. My dad went in hospital for open heart surgery and she didn’t even tell me. She told my son she didn’t want to be around me. A real piece of work
I have been ignoring the narcissist's silent treatment. I refuse to let him know it got to me when he first did it. Now I just act like everything is normal, I haven't even noticed it and am not hurt by his lack of response. I used to feel terrible and wind up apologizing for something I shouldn't have apologized for. Now I just focus on being happy and know I am a decent person who doesn't deserve to be ignored. I bring a lot to the table and am still happy to offer love and care to my friends. If he doesn't want to answer back it's his loss. I don't know if it's healthy - but I sure feel better.
I'm ignoring the narcs silent treatment as well. They are traumatized kids trying to resolve their unresolved issues and trauma caused by the primary parent. They have no ego/self, so they need narcissistic supply to fuel their false self.
@@bee12355 I pretty much am out of it. We were just "friends" - I guess as much as one can be friends with a narcissist. I hadn't realized it was all fake the whole time. Now that I do - well, it's easier and I have no desire to give him the satisfaction of knowing he hurt me, so I keep it light and superficially friendly. On my terms alone.
I am my moms caregiver because no other siblings will do it. She has been horrid our whole life. She did something 1 day to totally embarrass me to ppl in public, I came home and for the first time in 56 years I went off on her. She gave me the silent treatment for an ENTIRE YEAR! We live in the same house. It was the BEST year so far of having to care for her.
I was in the same boat. She had cancer and later she got dementia. Her oncologist put her in some meds after she went off on him. She went from hateful angry and abusive to being kind attentive and grateful. Stay strong and look into some antidepressants for her. My mom passed away two years ago
@@zackleewright6885 she passed away June 21. After a fall in May when I had her taken to the hospital it was discovered she had some kind of cancer that had been already invading her skull bones. Because she continually refused any type of medical treatment or preventative check ups we have no idea what the type of cancer it was. She was placed in Pallative/hospice care and passed 29?days later. I had cared for her for just under 11 years.
You do know/realize that the act of you being embarassed "to ppl in public" and angry but then holding that shame (mark that word) and anger untill you were in a more private place and THEN unleashing or "went off on her" that is probably one of the biggest indicators of NPD. As per the DSM - 5, the standard manual/ diagnostic tool for clinicians (maybe a made up word.. IDK) An eye for an eye leaves both partially blind. On a less moral and more personal note; I once heard a comedian say something along the lines of what i have become to agree with; When your parents F*%& with you when your young (or whenever, i say) just remember that, they will be old one day and most elder abuse is reported by the family or caregiver... You say you are both huh??? Lol *For legal purposes this statement has been for entertainment pusposes only and in no way reflect the thoughts or ideas of the (innocent) person that made them. (Cause, again, innocent)
As a victim, the silent treatment is probably one of the worst tactics a person can use. Nobody can read another persons mind and yet it seems like they expect you to and may throw a tantrum if you get the answer wrong 🙄
Sometimes the narcissist expects an answer from us without them ever being the one to ask us the question they want an answer for in any way shape or form other than through their own body language towards us. Saying that is robbing the cradle now as a result of how often narcissists get away with what they do has become only a euphemism for getting away with doing that sort of thing.
Thanks! I greatly appreciate your work. I am an adult child of a grandiose narcissist who is learning that i married a covert narcissist. You’ve been instrumental in helping me help myself and my children while we navigate this. God bless you.
This video has come at the right time, thank you, Doc!! Recently I'm being gaslit by a few family members, especially my older brother who keeps trying to convince me I'm insane, just because I refuse to speak to my abusive narc father, now take boundaries seriously, and also I refuse to endure the generational abuse. I'm being told things such as: "Are you normal? Do you need your medication?", "Stop overreacting and being defensive, be nice to your mother she gave you birth", "talk to your father he'll feel better", and so on. I also realized that I ended up making a huge mistake and allowing my emotions to speak for me, expecting these sick people to understand but oh boy I was wrong. Each and every emotion of mine has been weaponised and used against me. I feel absolutely angry and frustrated these days, have multiple panic attacks. It is so difficult to be young and live in a family full of narcissists and enablers. It's draining, so much to the point where it can drive a sane person to feel insane and even at times, suicidal.
You're spot on! Now that you know the sick dynamics at play in your family know that you can't change it. Move on to a better life outside of their perpetually sick mind games. Take and keep your power back from these emotional vampires. Find and honor your true self and pursue your dreams, not theirs. It may require moving some distance away but you will free and at peace.
You are not alone and Dr. Ramani has been such an educator and professional who has helped me navigate a family full of narcissistic individuals who don't take a break!
You didn't choose to be born, you don't owe anything to your mother because she birthed you. Totally ridiculous! Also, my guess is that, in your family of origin, you are not normal. I think that's a good thing.
@@alwayslearningthankyou2708 That is what I'm trying my best to do. Only now am I understanding the severity of this situation, all of them are messed up deeply. They keep telling me: "Oh why don't you open up and tell us everything, you don't have anybody else in life except your family" only to time and time again use my truth and my emotions against me and gaslight + belittle me. They say: "You are supposed to forgive your family, there are worse things that take place in the families of other people and yet they forgive and forget", all while they continue to emotionally and psychologically abuse me. The projections are the worst, I've been called selfish, a burden, even been told "jokes" by my older brother that involved being hit or being called straight up ugly for my appearance by him, but the moment he is confronted he turns it around and says "Oh its just a joke!". These people are sickening. Moving isn't an option as of right now, but every single day I'm developing a new symptom physically that concerns me. I cannot even speak of my medical needs without being blamed for illnesses THEY are responsible for. They control so many areas of my life and violate my boundaries. I'm only 17 but I'm trying my best to break this generational curse, so that my child doesn't have to suffer.
The worst part of this is, in my experience, when I make a conscious effort to communicate in a healthy respectful way, I feel like I'm being punished for it. It took me a long time, after becoming an adult, to realize that I wasn't a failure at communicating. Fact is that I was being forced to interact with an unhealthy form of communication by their cruel tactics growing up and gaslighted into thinking that I was the failure at communicating and consequently to blame for any escalation to a disagreement.
It is true that whenever the narcissist in their narcissistic patterns sees someone through their high levels of enthusiastic communications only making only a minor error which they are often correcting soon enough instead of allowing them to be only human they add it to their record keeping to use later when trying to punish us for not doing exact as they told us or when not doing exact what they want us to do no matter what our own wishes are.
Exactly, my wife does nothing but lies, when you try to have a real conversation about what is really going on, she turns it around and makes me feel like everything is my fault, silent treatment until I give in,every time you give in, she just feels like yes this is the way to keep me down
Jesus H Christ. Screw it if my ex sees. This thread is down to a T of what I experienced about two weeks prior. There were three instances of him using the silent treatment on me, and guess who felt it only right to initiate repair? Me. Always ME. Always. (I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong. I believe in growth, and that cannot be done without personal accountability.) My Point: I can relate, and it is validating and gives me a sense of relief to see, know, and understand that there is a community of fellow survivors. And that there is a name to what we have experienced. And that the experience is real.
Uau. Same here. Was told tthat I don't know how to communicate... but only later I realised the oerdon did not want anything to be communicated - all healthy and transparent communication was sabotaged by them in different covert ways!
Oh well, my father used the silent treatment on me all my childhood, for the sole purpose of making me feel insignificant (my mother just generally ignored me but would at least reply to me). No wonder I attracted the most awful people later in life as I felt worthless, but now I'm healing and gaining myself back ! Thanks to Dr Ramani for her awesome work :)
I'm so sorry your parents did that. I would never ever give my child the silent treatment. The last thing I will say to my daughter before bed, or leaving the house is I Love You. We are not promised tomorrow and my last words to my child will not be negative
Dr. Ramani, you wear an invisible hero cape that only some of us see and cherish :) Thank you so much for helping me understand, arm up, and protect myself from these horrible people. It has lifted so much weight off my shoulders, and made room for more positive relationships and experiences!! Life CAN be good :)
It's important to talk about the difference in the silent treatment given by the narc and the silent treatment, eventually given by the victim of the narc. While the former is a weapon, esp to punish, the latter is out of exasperation and when all else has failed , including trying to reason with the narc and tell them time n agn what their behavior does to u! I hope u make a video differentiating between these so the victims who have finally adopted the silent treatment towards the narc don't have self doubt or question themselves 🙏
Narcissists are exhausting… they drain the life from you… which in turn keeps them thriving. For my own wellbeing, I have recently distanced myself from a narcissistic ’friend’. Since I am a people pleaser, this hasn’t been easy, as in free from feeling bad… but keep reminding myself that I have to take care of myself.
That first tactic is actually heavily encouraged on social media, often under the guise of self care, and not tolerating "negativity". ANY disagreement is seen as negativity, rather than just a difference of views/opinion.
No-one can disagree with a narc. Their mind IS GOD and TRUTH and nothing else exists. It's scary really. The first narc I had the misfortune of befriending for decades literally thought of himself as god. The narc will never humble themselves and repent anything as there is only their eternal now in which they were and always will be right. Even my current narc issue after trying to kinda kidnap me against my will in a way through fraud said after I still didn't respond after leaving to save my job, "I expected this ghosting treatment from you but know communication is important." If he expected this, then wtf was his plan? And how does he claim qualifications to be some life coach/slave driver? That's was when I realized, he was a narc as well. I had realized that not a single desire of mine had been met just as it was no matter how small. He kept making demands on me while saying he was trying to no disturb my work. Such that if I refuse, I look like an asshole because im in his house. Right before he said something Saturday on my day off, "come when every ur ready, im working on you having a nice yard to hang out in buddy." Already know where that's going. I need to write code to keep my job not landscape his yard as I must marshal my time and attention in ways a pot head real estate agent will never understand as "I know its like piece work ive done a lot of it.". He has no friends and the only people who can tolerate his company are those with legal /professional obligations to do so. Ask the Lake of the Ozark board of realtors who kicked him out for violence and aggression. Pretty sure he is the problem not me, so he is getting ghosted as much as it hurts.
I chose to go no contact with a narcissist, they then continued to text me and ask "why are you giving me the silent treatment?" They acted as if I was punishing them. I just wanted to get away from their abusive behavior
More of that, if you telling them about reasons and then goes silent or even blocking them, without communucation from the other side, without conversation about.. so this is pretty similar to a narcissistic discard. Be careful to not catch these simptoms.
They would give me the silent treatment in response to perceived, even though each time I took accountability, apologized and changed my behavior. and it made me really uncomfortable. I told them how much that hurt me and all they would do was gaslight me. then they got really angry when I tried to request boundaries around emotional intimacy and changed my work schedule to not be around them 👍🏾😃 They just can't handle a "no" and they can't handle taking responsibility for their own actions
I got the silent treatment for 6 months before I left my marriage last year. If she needed help with something there would be a brief pause but the silent treatment would start again straight afterwards. She was very upset and surprised when I left. Loss of control is very upsetting for a narcissistic person.
My X used silent treatment until one day I out silenced him. When he was ready to talk again I stayed silent for the same amount of time he did. He never did it again!
37 years with a covert narcissistic closet alcoholic. In the tail end of a two year divorce now. A few years ago he told me "When you try to talk to me about stuff, I just go outside and smoke some pot". Ok, so now let's add drug addiction to the issues. Thanks Dr Ramani for helping me slowly start to understand what I've been dealing with most of my adult life. Wish I had understood narcissism 40 years ago. 👍
Better to learn about it late than never to learn about it at all. Took me 38 years to see and accept I was in a relationship with a narc. Had to forgive myself for being so blind. He said “ we’ve been together so long we need to stay and take care of each other.” I said “no thanks. Can’t give you another day out if my life. You took enough.” Moved him out. Namaste….
I was dating this guy for 6 months. He said “ I will walk away if you ask me if we are exclusive”. He wanted all the benefits of a relationship but would never label it. When I called his bullshit, he ghosted me. It was awful! I am glad I got out sooner
I don't think anyone understood narcissism 40 years ago. I didn't know what it was 18 years ago when a counselor told me the term & it's been quite the education, still learning. I'd taken a break & ignored it grey rocking for the last years to get by. Now he's pushing boundaries and here I am again, learning more.
I've been feeling heavy, depressed because I'm finally understanding how sick my husband of 18 years is..and that it won't change. I used to hope and believe it could before. I now feel so bad because the person i agreed to spend my life with ..is emotionally like a child.
Word salad? No no no no no, narcissists have the best words. They know all the words, the very best words. So smart, people go up to them crying. They say, "sir, your words were so beautiful. I'm a miner, haven't cried in 69 years, but your words made me cry." The best words.
😂😂😂I agree totally!!!! They start to look like assholes!! Unless they stay in their "circle of trust, meaning his group of 4 friends at the country club! He feels safe there with his younger girlfriend,( his new supply) that I know that it was going on, before the divorce, although he denied everything for 45 YEARS and marriage! CLASSIC behavior!
Word Salad... that sounds exactly like many conversations we've had. I was under the impression that it was me not being able to keep on topic but when others heard him talking to me (via recording), others agreed that it made no sense to them either. I was so relieved but then started to worry about his mental health.
I still remember my mother's silent treatment , in the beginning was hurting me but to be honest at one moment I was happier to be treated silent than to be verbally aggressed and insulted and controlled by her. I considered those periods of time a good time to get on track and to restore myself, to rest . But sometimes , as she felt that , she was often the one to cut the silence and bite and bite and bite until I lost my cool and react , so I was feeling bad again , and sudden. It's disturbing to live in this way. And exhausting.
Yes!!! Re the silent treatment, if you learn to ignore it, enjoy it in a way, they will eventually cave because they will know that you are winning. They can't stand that. And yes, they may stop using that particular tactic, but rest assured they will reach into their bag of tricks and find another way to try on you. Stonewalling is pretty painful because it makes you feel rejected like you do not matter. It makes you realize just how one-sided the relationship is. It can backfire for them when they realize that you have stopped caring about their opinion since you no longer ask for it.
I am so thankful for you, Dr. Ramani. The first silent treatment, I still vividly remember, is my mother refusing to answer my questions. She was doing dishes, and I was begging, tugging at her apron, begging her to talk to me. I finally ran to my father, in tears, "There's something wrong with Mommy, she can't hear me!" He was intimidated by her, and instead of helping me, he explained, "She's upset with you because you do not want to go to cathechism. It was a lifetime of her silence. If I sat down at the dinnertable, and she had unexpressed frustration or anger, it was directed at me. She'd pick up her plate and take her food to her room. My father would blame me for "making your mother leave the room". When I reached adulthood, she refused to speak to me for 25 years, then died. I felt nothing but relief.
Thank you so much for sharing Dr. Ramani. I'm currently going through this with a few people I know and I've learned to just stop dealing with them. I've tried working out arguments by having adult conversations and when I realized that they just want to "keep arguing" because that's a form of comtrolling "your" emotions, now I walk away to collect my emotions and get some grounding. I've learned to stop arguing, and made a point to them that I no longer argue and, so I no longer deal with them. Narcissists hate when they can't control your emotions. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather get the silent treatment vs continually dealing with their chaos.... I choose my peace and I pray for theirs.
I’ve dealt with both. I learned to just keep quiet and not take the bait with the narc who like to argue. It takes 2 to argue. He cannot argue with himself. The other one who gave the listen treatment drove me nuts. Then I got used to it and I would just ignore him and stopped asking him what was wrong. He had a pattern, every few weeks I got the silent treatment. He finally discarded me. I didn’t know he was a narcissist while I was dealing with it. I used to tell him he was passive aggressive. Many years later, I learned that he was a narcissist.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for clarifying that going NO CONTACT is not a part of this. I was emotionally abused and coerced by someone who, after my multiple attempts to correct the situation, refused to be respectful, and I had to finally just go NO CONTACT. After a month of breathing free with no contact from her, she sent me a box of things that I had sent her over the years along with a scathing letter, saying that my heart is black LOL. I just tossed everything along with the letter, as it was confirmation that she didn't want to be respectful or caring.
Silent treatment combined with microaggressive behavior (for example, pushing the front seat way back to give me no leg room in the back, or breaking something of mine and pretending it was an accident, or bumping into me and pretending it was an accident, or disappearing when it's time for us to set up for an event)
Careful, if you're still in the relationship. 'Accidentally' hurting you can be a sign that the behaviour is transitioning from emotional abuse to full on physical abuse. That's what I read in the book 'the verbally abusive relationship'. Take care
@Essex Magpie in my case it was a friendship and professional partnership. No contact for 3 years, luckily. but I have no doubts the fights have gotten physical between them and their spouse.
Had a coworker like this. Would try to spill water on me, use his body to block doorways so I had to stop , stand aside and let them push past me, while splashing water out of buckets onto my pants and into my shoes ( despite the fact the doorway is wide enough for a horse to turn a 360 in.) I was expected to take him places in my personal vehicle for FREE anytime I went anywhere. He tried to have me fired for leaning a pitchfork the wrong angle.....the boss fired me because I was making trouble. I was making him upset. I wasn't being a team player. I've never been so happy to be fired.
very timely as my partner just gave me the silent treatment, after i said my non-negotiables, he hit me with "i miss you" lmao, that is after unfriending me from all social media and not talking to me. i told him if he needs space then i need space too.i realized there are so many fishes in the ocean and that i am worthy of someone better, someone secure and someone i can connect to deeply
If the good doctor and team would find the time, I would love to see, listen a deeper dive into a narcississm in medicine, in doctors, nurses etc. Because there are a lot of cases where doctors for instance gaslight a patient for their grievances. "It's all in your head, you are just stressed, you are imagening things, don't manifest illnesses etc." I really think this issue needs to be adressed, because medicine often misses underlying diagnoses and the patients are left to suffer😢. Thank you in advance. 🧡
As someone that has career working 25 years in the medical field. I 100% agree with you! This god like complex some of these MD’s have and expect to be treated as such! Im so over it I am considering a career change. It’s such a fake, toxic, kiss ass environment im over it! And don’t even get me started on the sexual harassment I have experienced over the years from most of these MD’s that are married mind you! The narcissism and god like complex have them convinced they are untouchable and above all.
Would have or instead a lot of good doctors who do not over prescribe only cannot do a deeper dive at all about that topic without putting their medical practice at risk while having to make referrals for their patients sometimes when they are having to cope with the odd narcissistic only specialist in their smaller former on the frontier not all that long ago in the city where they are practicing in too?
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS WORD SALAD EXAMPLE OF THEIR ARGUING!!! It makes it so hard to explain arguments to friends when seeking support. They won’t stop until they see they’ve broken you, broken your will - made you cry. Logic need not apply. You Can’t EVER make them satisfied with anything you say back. It brings them satisfaction and I truly belief a release of endorphins or serotonin in them when they see you break/cry. They need their drug fix. It’s subtle but you can see their eyes soften and go from looking glaring/angry to satisfied. It burns off your emotional feelers and you survive by separating yourself and walking around like a robot just to survive.
This is my dad to a "T". He completely ignores my existence unless he needs help, or wants to rehash old arguments. He also likes to take bad about me to people as I'm not in the same room with him. He never wants to have a vulnerable conversation. He just want me to go back to my old role of being a people-pleaser. I'm not a good daughter in his eyes because I fit the ideal image he wants. All he does know is stomp around the house in silence to let everyone in the house know that he's angry.
Yes. I’m saving this video. My ex would say, “I’m not even going to talk, I always say the wrong thing, so what’s the point?? I’m trying to say something but a different thing comes out, you don’t understand me, so there’s no point in talking”. I’d tell him he just needs to be careful on what he says, and to accept that he’s not always right, and he’d say, “you act like you’re always right, and I’m wrong, so you can say whatever, but I can’t? Wow, you always want everything your way that’s why we never get anywhere”. I’d just give up at that point, because it’s stressful to always be a therapist to someone who doesn’t want to work on themselves and doesnt see himself as a problem, rather a victim, and I’m his abuser. The silent treatment was used when I’d make him use his money for bills rather than weed. We both worked, we agreed what he’d pay, and I’d pay, (mind you, the bills were under my name since he moved in with me). When the bills were due, he would say he rather pay the bills late so he can buy his weed, I’d tell him no, he needs to pay the bills, kuz our kids are not going without light and a roof over their head. He’d say he’ll just pay the late fees, no biggie and I’d say no, either you pay the bills or we’re done, I’m not going to control how you use your money, but if you’re not going to do what me and you agreed on, we’re done. He ended up paying the bills, and slept on the couch, messaged women, get rides from other people to and from work instead of me like he usually did, he’d get his mom and sister to make him dinner instead of eating what I made at home. It was like we were roommates, all because I held him responsible. I wouldn’t apologize, I’d just give him a taste of his own medicine, so I wouldn’t wash his clothes, or do his dishes when he’d make something. He eventually yelled at me for being childish, petty, a bad girlfriend, and immature. The irony. I’d explain how he’s ignoring me and acting like my roommate, so I’ll treat him like one, and he’d start yelling about how I’m controlling, I’m so strict, I’m financially abusing him, I want everything my way, etc, etc. sometimes I would just apologize and give him what he wants, but it would end BADLY. He’d end up leaving me before the late fees of those unpaid bills would come, and I’d have to end up paying the bills, AND late fees. So when I’d bring those examples up to him, he’d say, “that’s was SO long ago!!! Idk how your mind thinks, but you need to let go of the past and move on, you’re always bringing up old sh*t, let’s talk about now, NOW, how recently have I done that???”. My response would be, “well I’m just mentioning it because those are repeated offenses, I’m going by patterns not your words, I’m not going to put me and my kids in an unstable situation, so either pay the bills, or we’re done”. He’d say, okay, since you’re saying I always bail, then what’s the point of proving you wrong, fine, I won’t pay them, pay them yourself, I’m out. So those “past” behaviors would be CURRENT behaviors, and if I’d bring THOSE up, he’d say I made him do those bad things so it’s my fault why he wasn’t responsible. I’d feel horrible, like I shouldn’t have doubted him, I shouldn’t think of the past, etc etc. but now i know, that man is a narcissist. Can’t no one change my mind on that. Now coparenting with him, is harder than it was when we were together. He withholds child support, he puts my kids through verbal altercation situations, smokes with them in the same room/car, leaves our kids with toxic people when he wants to go out, etc. He ignores my texts and calls when I’m trying to get him to talk about something important like child support, his missed visitations, him hurting our kids, or his family hurting our kids. It’s HARD. Court is an option, but I fear him lying and trying to manipulate the judge about my character. He’s so good at acting like a victim and making me look like a bitter, angry ex. He did it before, and the judge scolded me, i didn’t speak up for myself, I could’ve defended myself but for some reason I just stayed quiet, i couldn’t speak, and the judge ended it by congratulating him for being such a good dad. I was confused, mad at myself, and I never went to court again.
Im adept at the silent treatment. And I'd rather be left alone because I'm introverted. My mother stopped putting me on timeout because i would be enjoying myself in the corner. So when I got older and I married a narc and she did the silent treatment, she found that I would enjoy being left alone and she wouldnt get supply. So she changed her tactics.
Hahaha...OMG. I can relate. My Mom put me in my room alone for hours by myself and it never worked. I loved being by myself. She eventually found other ways to punish me. LOL
I think sometimes the silent treatment is combined with the secretiveness of many narcissists- they are making their plans for the discard in their silence. Also gaslighting can be involved, as in saying, “Well, I don’t speak to you in the morning until you speak to me because I never know what mood you’re in”. (and where do we go from there?). It can get very convoluted. I’m three weeks out from this roller coaster ride (no contact-I’m done), and still amazed at what it’s shown me. A lesson I had to learn. Think this time I passed. Won’t need to do it again. 😎
Toxic friendship have been my issue lately. Not seeing the signs because I wasn't aware of my own cognitive disorder from multiple childhood and adult traumas. Now I'm listening very closely at what people say and the vibe I get from them. I'm usually a happy person and all it takes is kindness to win me over. That's all in the past. I'm more attentive and alert negate in healing and refuse to allow anyone to destroy what's work so hard to rebuild within myself. I'm always doing the self check. I'm I hurting others with my ideas, actions or words and if so in what way? This way I can stop doing those things because I did care about how I make others feel and if they don't care about my feelings I'm out. Crossing my boundaries and anything that isn't aligned with my overall peace of mind. Your videos are very helpful because I can see where the signs come in and I can navigate my emotions accordingly and usually with minimal conflict. So thank you for gifting us with this very important info. I can see, feel, and know where I need healing and when it's actually happening or I've succeeded at overcoming a particular trigger. You're a gift and a blessing to all who come across your channel. New sub❤❤❤
This last year I was slowly rebuilding a relationship with a family member after many, many, many years. Out of no where began the silent treatment. Gotta say, I was stunned. They seemed they had grown out of this. After a few attempts to make contact ( maybe something had happened, they were going through) I finally told them: " I love you but I cannot chase you down." It still hurts. However, I must go on with my life and thrive. With or without them. Great breakdown & explination of this behavior. Ty!
Dr. Ramani, thank you. When I'm tempted to respond to the narcissist, I just watch your videos, and I'm reminded of exactly why I shouldn't. And that word salad thing is scary, because that's what I've been dealing with. It seems- for now, at least- the less I feed him supply, the crazier the narcissist's rants become. It's like he's throwing anything at the wall to see if something will get my reaction.
My daughter is so grateful to you, so am I for the help you have given both of us, you should be given an award for all you do, thank you so much for everything, we watch all your videos, you are amazing.
My mother was the queen of the silent treatment. It was devastating as a young child. When people know this they use it against me knowing how hurtful it is. Tells me alot about a person when they are quick to hurt me with something so painful.
You never fail to have unbelievable timing with these topics in my life. 😮 I am dealing with the silent treatment from a "friend". She's also begun a smear campaign, including talking about me in unnamed social media comments with mutual friends. I'm proud to say though, after the catalyst- telling her directly, privately, that I felt hurt by her attitude during a discussion about money- at which she blamed me and ranted a full 2 paragraphs about how "after all I've done for you" guilt trip garbage, I recognized her silently leaving our group chats as the silent treatment. I said to myself, 'oh, she expects me to dm and beg her not to go!" 😂 hold your breath, sweetie. Thank you so much for your work!!!
I had to stay silent when I was with my ex, because anything I said would be used against me, cruelly. The times I did try to talk things out with him, it almost always made it worse. So, I felt awful staying silent at times, but it always just felt like the best way to keep myself a bit safer when he was angry.
Thank you for this video. I'm in this silent treatment at this time. I saw & hear your video that make my life more and more cleaner and now I know why my problems like this. I had gone to a therapy but my therapist was not understanding the problems so I thought my problems are unsolvable and I'm all alone in this world. Thank you so much your video helps a lot.
Thank you, Dr. Ramini, for explaining with such clarity this crazy-making dynamic running rampant through my own family system. It's such a toxic, no-win style. You are the voice of sanity I needed to hear today.
I used to frequently use the silent treatment when I was in a toxic relationship. When they flip, there’s no having a normal conversation. Its just insults, blame shifting, threats, straight up lies, changing history, making accusations, and changing what you said in order to use it as a reason to keep raging. Imo it was easier to just get away from it by going into another room or shutting off my phone.
Thank you Dr. Ramani for making the distinction between the classical use of the term "word salad" in psychology as compared to the way it's used when talking about narcissism. I heard it come up in some videos on narcissism, and having only had an understanding of the term "word salad" in its traditional use, I kept thinking, "That's not quite what a word salad is." I am glad to hear a trained and licensed treatment provider make the distinction and validate the use of the term for narcissism. I work at an inpatient behavioral health hospital. The most devastating personal experience I've had with word salads has been conversations with an alcoholic suffering from "wet brain" (the clinical term is slipping my mind). He would start conversations making total and complete sense, but by the third or fourth sentence it devolved into complete word salad. So sad. He was a very intelligent man. He destroyed his cognition with alcohol 😥
I would like to hear more about silence. Coming out of a nonstop, narcissistic relationship, silence was a place for me to create boundaries for myself and protect myself from the chaos and manipulation and confusion of conversations with my narcissistic spouse. I needed to avoid those conversations because they were incredibly toxic and confusing. I was trying to decide if I was staying or leaving and needed to disengage from those confusing conversations. I’d like to hear some discussion about the difference between safe silence and narcissistic silence.
Love your videos. I’m just learning that I have been with a narcissist for 34years! I now have failing health and emotional issues.. Two deceased adult children who I now know in my heart would still be alive if not for the toxic environment I allowed us to live with through his control! Thank you for opening my eyes and teaching me how to continue to move forward and how to deal with hi. Oh boy you sound just like every part of him. Bless you for helping so many!!! 💕🙏. Yep,he goes through our-son which has caused great problems for his mental health and he is now treating me poorly. They do turn them against you!!!
Dr Ramani - you are a ray of hope in an otherwise very dark experience of narcissistic abuse. thank you for your steadfast, smart and funny (!) approaches to this awful thing called narcissistic abuse.
Word Salad! The example given was the exact scenario I had experienced from 2 different partners! Now I know why I was left feeling totally bamboozled! Thankyou!
This has been what I experienced as a child teen and adult. When I was fighting cancer and when I had my baby. I always thought it was my fault I would always apologize they would turn the family on me. My self esteem was so low. This channel is helping me so much.
Word Salad!!! Love this part of the video. It happens to me exactly as you explained....they want to make so confused and feel guilty that you forget what you where trying to discuss or explain. Thank you so much for your videos. I am using all your tools to move on from my narcissist husband who ened our 30 year marriage now that he has a new supply.
The world salad explanation 35:56 is frighteningly accurate. I found it was used whenever we were having a serious conversation. About anything. Even something like did you take the bins out? They response would be 'did you?' It made every day increasingly impossible to just do normal adult resonsible things like, communicate, plan, shop, clean etc. It was so incredibly strange. She would deliberately talk about shallow lighthearted things all the time. 'Look at those puppys, beautiful weather, its so cold, I'm so tired.' Of course these things arent bad at all but it was the same thing every day hundreds of times throughout the day. I came to understand this was a deliberate avoidance tactic and way to control the relationship. Anything I would say that was of substance would be 'drama.' Like 'hey you said you'd organise dinner but you haven’t and I've been at work all day.' 'I'm not your maid' 'I know this but you clearly said you had dinner organised.' It was like living with a six year old.
I've studied psychology for years. NLP. Madenes, whose psychodynamic theories are useful, and others. Freud and Jung, obviously. The love languages stuff. The brilliant John Gottman. All great stuff. But no one comes close to Dr. Ramini. She's a genius. No one comes close.
Out of the 4, word salad makes me the most frustrated. If I can avoid a narc, I do it. If I’m communicating with one, it’s because I absolutely have to. When I’m forced to do so, having that jumbled up, sidetracking, all over the place, exchange, makes my blood pressure rise. I *hate* word salad.
Yours videos have being a life line and what helped me leave a terrible relationship as finally could make sense of all these behaviours and stop being manipulated
Every single manipulation tactic all but implies the use of the lying tactic and the gaslighting tactic. I actually dislike it a little calling out gaslighting as a manipulation tactic as it's actually an effect. All manipulation tactics will contribute to it by nature of what manipulation is. Some tactics however certainly take the gaslighting effect to a whole different level. Blatant lies that are so bad they insult your intelligence is one of them. That kind of shit will make you feel like you are in the twilight zone after a while. Here are some of the reasons they do this: To test their control. To feel superior and/or entertainment. This proves to themselves how much control they have over you. In the end, you will give up and you will not leave (trauma bonded). In the process of getting to the giving up stage, you will go through some pretty nasty emotional states ending in massive amounts of cognitive dissonance to swallow all of that. Cognitive dissonance is a trauma defense mechanism where you essentially lie to yourself in various ways so that you can bring back some semblance of equilibrium to the insanity you find yourself unable to escape from. As part of the ‘backing you into an emotional corner’ tactic. This is a tactic where you are manipulated into being emotionally unstable inevitably leading to you losing your shit. This gives the narcissist a big dopamine burst, they feel powerful and superior having so deftly controlled you and manipulated into this emotional state. To finish the little game they play, they make sure to point out how unhinged and unstable you are and suggest that perhaps you need help or medication. Of course, you will internalize all that shame and guilt and the million other raging emotions they have created and swallow all that essentially allowing them to scapegoat their blame and accountability onto you. Bring on some more cognitive dissonance and gaslighting effects. To condition you to expect less respect, and ultimately put up with more abuse. You will tire of the inevitable circular argument trying to convince the narcissist of the blatantly obvious lie and eventually find yourself challenging them less and less as you subconsciously accept the fact that if you do it will just make your life and emotional state more miserable and you will be denied the satisfaction of any kind of ‘win’ even if it is easy to disprove. This is part of the domination process and makes sure all the power in the relationship ends up with them by the end. To turn your mind to mush as the gaslighting effect takes hold more and more over time. This makes you even easier to control. Many times while easy to disprove it requires some kind of concession of some obvious truth that the narcissist can just doggedly refuse to agree with or remember (‘the intentional forgetting’ tactic and the ‘feigned confusion or ignorance’ tactics are often employed for this). So, in fact, it is not so easy to prove when the narcissist refuses to correctly remember what happened 10 min ago or accept sound logic or reasoning. You will just turn blue in the face trying. Of course, in some cases it is indisputable. A phone log or something. My experience is when this kind of stuff happens it wasn’t their intention typically, although sometimes it was. But in these scenarios, you will typically get some sort of angry ‘invalidating’ tactic, with some good old ‘manufactured rage’ and ‘intimidation’ tactics to ‘put you on the defensive’ and get you more susceptible to further manipulation. Maybe something like: “Get over yourself already” followed up by some ‘blame-shifting’ tactics with some good old ‘guilt’ and ‘shame’ tactics, like “Why the hell are you spying on my phone records anyway? What kind of relationship is this? I don’t have any privacy? I don’t know if I can do this anymore! You have major jealousy issues! You need help!” You will walk away as the loser either way. There are resistance tactics that can be used but this is a very difficult tactic to deal with and it is one of their favorites. I won’t get into the counter-tactics here though. The only way to really win in a relationship with a narcissist is to leave them and go no contact. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done Metaspyhub@gmail. com..
Woww 🙇♀️it sounds like you’re going through some serious stuff here. Your abuser sounds like a coercive-narcissist. Before he murders you, or you kill him, please, take yourself (and your young children, if any), and ESCAPE, through the nearest exit, or outlet!!
@@jeanie5074 funny you should say before you kill him. I had a friend who had an abusive girlfriend. The girlfriend used to go to softball and come home drunk, and beat up my friend. One night my friend had enough, she struck girlfriend one time in the head with the bat and killed her. From the time we were 30 until we were forty-five, my friend was in Marquette prison for women in Michigan! Reactive abuse is real.👍☮️
I was about thirteen, I traveled somewhere and when I came back my mom wasn't talking to me. For two months I tried to figure out why. Eventually I dug up my diary that was locked and hidden behind a drawer in my room. There it was. A pages long rant from my mother on how I could berate her to my "dear diary". She didn't let me go to a party, so I ranted and cursed at my diary. I was working up my courage to trust my diary with the abuse I was suffering. That halted everything. I had nowhere and no one to turn to. I am 46, just now I started writing up my memories from that time.
In my late 50's now. I appreciate your videos they've helped me understand past issues with family 👪 friends & of course boyfriend's 😉 Over the years I've realized 😳 mental health issues in society are being ignored and never addressed which leads to so many falling between the cracks.
If only I had this to listen to as a child! Or heck, even in my 20's. At least at 50 I'm finally understanding my life.😅 Love what you're doing Dr Ramani!
Thank you again Dr. Ramani. I am in a relationship with my sister that has been hard to understand she has been stone walling me for years and I never knew why, this podcast has cleared up the why. This is life changing for me, it is going to be hard, as you know, but at least now I can do the work to take care of me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Dr. Ramani, this is incredibly eye opening and glad to know us women deserve better than to stay with someone like this. It’s only now I fully comprehend who this person really was
You completely saved me! I’m able to live with peace happiness and freedom having the knowledge you taught me! You liberated me!!! This knowledge is so essential for anyone living in today’s world!!
Stonewalling was such a huge issue (among many others) in my past abusive relationship. It left in me in a constant state of rumination and unable to have any closure or resolution. I would end up having the same conversations over and over and trying my best to word it in the “perfect” way so as to elicit a different response. Any response! He always would pick and choose what he would reply to and it was usually something so minuscule and unrelated, then take offence and deflect it back on me. I always ended up confused and not realising what happened until hours later. It’s torturous!
There was absolutely no resolution. There was no care from the stone waller. The silent treatment and the mind reading factor were huge. I experienced so much of this and it feels good to have an understanding of what was happening to me. Thank You Dr.Ramani ❤.
It is torture when you are living in it. But I understand why you said that, especially if you are dealing with a narc who likes to argue. I dealt with both. Both are emotionally abusive
I found the silence delightful. I'd make phone calls, take a shower, etc. without telling him (or asking, as he preferred). At least I knew he wasn't going to interrupt me or 'need' my attention.
2 things I wish I have learned 23 years ago, one of them is how to deal with a communal narcissist friend, throughout our friendship she started to control me and when I finally understood (thanks to Dr Romani's videos) the kind of relationship we had I managed to break it and at the moment she is doing exactly the silent communication.
Look at it as good riddance. Don’t call that ‘friend’ back. If, and when she calls you, do-not-answer her/him, and, go seek therapy w/someone like Dr. Ramani ❤🎉
Your wise words have helped me so much. My narcissist left after us living together for 11 years with no word or explanation - so confusing and hurtful.
I would like to differentiate the " silent treatment" of a narc from the situation where you have tried to talk to people/ get them to see what's important to you but their disrespect etc is so bad that you have to walk away and stay silent for your own mental health. So the silence is to protect yourself until you can get the energy to re engage with them/ build up your self respect and go through that cycle again
Narcissists have the ability to dishonor you, while simultaneously claiming that they love you.
Another word for a narcissist is,
EMOTIONAL TERRORIST!
My father said he was "afraid to be murdered for his inheritance" after I made some remarks about him putting all his money (a million + euro's) into his pension thus leaving nothing for his (grand) children. (He already said it was his goal in life to leave his children nothing when I was 10 years old ....) Although I do understand it isn't your only goal in life to make your children wealthy, I certainly do think we (and esp. the GRAND children) won't get the same chances in life that he has. After I went completely no contact after his "being murdered statement" 5 months ago he keeps telling me that he misses me and loves me. (which he has NEVER said before in my life) He don't seem to see any contradiction in this !!
That's a great way of describing it!
Perfect description
An emotional suicide bomber!
O9oll9l9ll
I know it would be childish to play this on the TV while they are actively giving me the silent treatment. But man do I really want to. 😊
Do it!
Loll. I personally wouldn’t want them to know I’m procuring that armor.
@beastslayer9009 yep, another reason why I wouldn't do it. But in my head, watching them listen to a UA-cam vid calling them out, feels so good.
@@ifoxfirei I totally hear you. Wanna get in their head a little and call them on their s*** without directly confronting them. Passive aggression under those circumstances is certainly tempting :’)
If only! Mine would view this & point out all the work I need to do on myself 🤦♀️
Silent treatment and ghosting by a narcissist = the garbage taking itself out😊
😂
😊
Absolutely genius! I love this 😂
The silent treatment can also be them going somewhere for a couple of days and not responding to your calls or text. When they feel you have suffered enough they return to your depleted self. Cruel? Absolutely! But it works….. until it doesn’t because you are done with their emotional and mental abuse. Then you go NO CONTACT. 😊
My mother has done this all my life. Lasted anywhere from a few weeks to 3 years. Then my father would come and insist that I go “hug the mother” insinuating that I was always in the wrong. Finally at 50 years old I said “NO”. Eventually it came to no contact after repeatedly being told they just didn’t care about me. Bye bye. Have a nice life.
@@DJH97 I’m so sorry to hear that DJ. That was cruel and abusive to do to your own child. I’m glad you found the strength to close the door and move on.
@@naspa2790 She is a very cruel hateful vindictive person. Rejection became the norm from her. Emotionally couldn’t do it anymore.
"Oh, you're back already? Shoots."
I used the no contact to my advantage 😂❤😂❤
I LOVED it when my dad would employ the silent treatment. Then we could do as we pleased and he'd keep his mouth shut. No insults. No demands. No put downs. It was a reward in our(family) case it was wonderful.
Yeah. For kids of a narcissist it's a relief. Yeah, you still feel guilty and bad but it's such a relief when the constant demands and attacks stop.
Oh, yes! Like an unexpected mini-vacation!!
Hear hear! The best. My mother moved away & stonewalled more or less for 20 years. A blessing for us all. Then she returned out of the blue, a few months after my father died, & we were right back to living in her bizzaro world. Obvs she wasn’t entirely gone for 20 years, but it was nice that she was far away. Now we have to deal with holidays again. What a poor, sad, decrepit & incapable old lady we have on our hands now. (NOT) She’s the witch she’s always been, just closer, and sadly even more insidious.
I only deciphered my mothers personality as narcissistic recently, but before that I treated her silent treatment like her accidentally giving herself a " time out" and take that time to get things done without her hovering
I'm not a big fan of "silent treatment". I don't confuse it with quiet time which isn't controlling. In my experience silent treatment was about control and getting one's way.
I have ghosted more than one narcissist in my life and I have no regrets.
To me it was always like a minefield ... everything could make him explode even during a silent treatment ...
Silent treatment and stonewalling ride a very thin line to grey rocking. The difference is, the silent treatment feels petty, and the goal is to hurt you and get something. With grey rocking, the goal is to avoid chaos, arguments, gaslighting, and keeping the peace. While still being open to communication, you’re just keeping it short and uninteresting. Sometimes, people on the outside might view your grey rocking as narcissistic silent treatment or stonewalling. Because the narcissist will be recruiting them. Just letting you know, in these abusive situations you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Just leave if you can.
Wow you said it better than me. Here i am 3 years out and when I hear silent treatment is narcissistic I began to doubt myself and my contribution. I ended up going silent because I could never get a word in edgewise. I’d be talked down talked over or gas lit. And I would repeat myself time and time again until I realized I was wasting my breath. I eventually went silent. But I didn’t do it to punish. I did it for my own sanity. Damned if I did and damned if I didn’t. I was verbally abusive when I talked. I was emotionally abusive when I didn’t.
I'm glad you explained this as I was thinking the same!!! I'm no contact with most of my family and Grey rock 2 of em. I don't care what it "looks like". I know what it is and that's what counts!!! #stayinghealthy
How do I find someone (therapist) help me threw this nightmare. My husband had does everything your saying and I’m seen as the unstable one and he’s the nice, strong, stable, great guy to our friends and his family and even sweet talks a therapist. I was brought up in an orphanage, no family to help me, which has give him free range to claim it’s all me. I always thought I was once the strongest women I knew, until several years into our marriage. Now I’m a shell of who I once was and no longer have any self esteem. I feel like a deer in the headlights, sometimes I can’t even breathe. NOW in my 70’s feeling so used and abused and like I’ve gone crazy etc.etc. I finally left and moved 1,500 miles away. He showed up on my door with Cancer and I took him in an cared for him for 3 years of hell and back. Now he won’t leave. And I can’t afford to leave again. I so deserve better than this an feel so hopeless ???
You're right damned if you do and damned if you don't. I was so puzzled and hurt by my sister for years and when I started listening to Dr. Ramani she has shed light on the behaviors I suffered with for years.
Dang I go through this self gaslight every time I hear these psychologists talk about behaviors i’ve done to avoid narcissists that are narcissistic tactics, the ghosting one is the absolute worst for me. I’ll ghost the narcissist but then question if i’m the narcissist.
Silent treatment never worked with me because I was always so relieved when they left me in peace.
SAME 😅
Yes 😊
And then they get mad at you later for not "trying hard enough" to "communicate" with them
You can say that again 😂
I guess the reality is that you can't in fact stop abuse, so the only option is to learn to recognize it and do whatever you can to keep distance, boundaries, and protect yourself. ❤❤❤ Thank you so much Dr. Ramani!!!!!!!!!!!!!👍
Yep Jacob I stay away from narcs
That sounds about right!
The law can stop abuse if needed
Lost so many days due to this. Always my day off
@@truth322 unfortunately the law won't do anything about mental abuse and especially not for a man...
I would love to see you do a video on reactionary abuse. Someone who purposely pushes your buttons, does things that they know will traumatize, sabotage & gaslight for the reactions they get out of you. Someone who then convinces you & everyone around that YOU are bipolar, have anger & mental issues which causes you to become isolated. A short video on facebook about it actually opened my eyes to the fact that it had been happening to me for 20yrs. It could help someone else who believes there's something wrong with them when they're actually being abused & manipulated
I was the reactive abuser in the 14 years insane marriage to the passive aggressive covert narcissist. I was so ashamed of my behavior. I screamed and shouted and ranted and raged and swore. Horrendous. Happy joyous and free since June 2017. Not one angry day!!!!
This is my current reality. It has effected my relationship with our kids. Thank you for sharing. Gives me validation.
Im in the process of leaving the relationship. I pray my kids will be ok, that it didnt go on too long...
I feel like my ex really wanted that from me but we weren’t together long enough and I generally managed to remain calm and assertive. When I wasn’t feeling calm and assertive and my anxiety was close to giving me panic attacks, I’d usually exit the room and try to go calm down. But whenever I’d exit he’d follow me and often that’s when he’d start screaming his head off. I’d keep repeating things like “I need a minute to calm down.” “Stop screaming at me.” But it wouldn’t work. He’d make out I was the one with the problem lol. He’d be stood over me, screaming and genuinely stamping his foot like an angry toddler and yelling there’s something wrong with me, and I need to grow up. I wish there was the time and space to share the whole story in all of these situations because it’s absolutely insane.
I was a normal, happy person. I was first trained in counselling aged 12, specially selected by my deputy head and school counsellor. I’m a psych major. I’ve a decent amount of mental health training under my belt. Nothing too impressive but just enough to sometimes, in my disbelief at how outrageous he was, have to stifle a laugh as he screamed and screamed because it was so ridiculous. I mean, one time I walked away because he’d lied right to my face, then been caught out and there he was screaming at me about it.
He’d scream because he wanted to control me and I tried to stay true to myself. Say no when I mean no. The screaming would come sometimes out of the blue and sometimes after failed efforts to manipulate me.
Eventually I made a terrible mistake and clearly defined his behaviour as abusive to his face. That’s when the threats of physical violence started. That’s when it got really dangerous to be around him.
That happened to me also. My mother self-diagnosed me as bi-polar and filed an affidavit I'm support of my now ex-husband in family court. He pushed my buttons Big Time to get a reaction out of me. Telling my entire family I was crazy. That was a very traumatic time in my life.
I think the silent treatment often comes from the narc feeling genuinely hurt and insulted when his or her demands are not met, as if you have done something seriously awful to them, like in a normal person, you kicked their puppy or something. I think the silent treatment is also an attempt of the narc to re-gain absolute control over communication when in active communication that control has slipped.
All narcissistic behaviours in the end aim at controlling the victim.
Let's get real ■ their [c]atch is their prize; they do not want to loose what they desire. You bet it can get ugly if they see what they want 'starting' to walk away.
What we really hurt is the Narcissist's fragile ego.
Silent treatment: they ignore you and psychologically make you anxious. Mind bending abuse. You cave. They win. Back to full control. Such a game for them.
I just asked my mother why she lied about me. Had the proof in an email right in front of her. That brought silent treatment for 3 years. My dad went in hospital for open heart surgery and she didn’t even tell me. She told my son she didn’t want to be around me. A real piece of work
@@naspa2790That’s why the only way is no contact. Outlast the silent treatment. FOREVER.
I have been ignoring the narcissist's silent treatment. I refuse to let him know it got to me when he first did it. Now I just act like everything is normal, I haven't even noticed it and am not hurt by his lack of response. I used to feel terrible and wind up apologizing for something I shouldn't have apologized for. Now I just focus on being happy and know I am a decent person who doesn't deserve to be ignored. I bring a lot to the table and am still happy to offer love and care to my friends. If he doesn't want to answer back it's his loss. I don't know if it's healthy - but I sure feel better.
Crude ■ if their [w]orms are ticking their butt, I 'can not' feel it. They need their own detox.
You need to get out of that toxic relationship
I'm ignoring the narcs silent treatment as well. They are traumatized kids trying to resolve their unresolved issues and trauma caused by the primary parent. They have no ego/self, so they need narcissistic supply to fuel their false self.
@@bee12355 I pretty much am out of it. We were just "friends" - I guess as much as one can be friends with a narcissist. I hadn't realized it was all fake the whole time. Now that I do - well, it's easier and I have no desire to give him the satisfaction of knowing he hurt me, so I keep it light and superficially friendly. On my terms alone.
@@Sorsha011 Be careful. You may present a challenge to him. Take care of yourself.
I am my moms caregiver because no other siblings will do it. She has been horrid our whole life.
She did something 1 day to totally embarrass me to ppl in public, I came home and for the first time in 56 years I went off on her. She gave me the silent treatment for an ENTIRE YEAR! We live in the same house. It was the BEST year so far of having to care for her.
I was in the same boat. She had cancer and later she got dementia. Her oncologist put her in some meds after she went off on him. She went from hateful angry and abusive to being kind attentive and grateful. Stay strong and look into some antidepressants for her. My mom passed away two years ago
@@zackleewright6885 she passed away June 21. After a fall in May when I had her taken to the hospital it was discovered she had some kind of cancer that had been already invading her skull bones. Because she continually refused any type of medical treatment or preventative check ups we have no idea what the type of cancer it was. She was placed in Pallative/hospice care and passed 29?days later. I had cared for her for just under 11 years.
Omg bless you. You are a very brave person. I am sure her toxicity drew into her brain.
You do know/realize that the act of you being embarassed "to ppl in public" and angry but then holding that shame (mark that word) and anger untill you were in a more private place and THEN unleashing or "went off on her" that is probably one of the biggest indicators of NPD. As per the DSM - 5, the standard manual/ diagnostic tool for clinicians (maybe a made up word.. IDK)
An eye for an eye leaves both partially blind.
On a less moral and more personal note; I once heard a comedian say something along the lines of what i have become to agree with; When your parents F*%& with you when your young (or whenever, i say)
just remember that, they will be old one day and most elder abuse is reported by the family or caregiver...
You say you are both huh??? Lol
*For legal purposes this statement has been for entertainment pusposes only and in no way reflect the thoughts or ideas of the (innocent) person that made them. (Cause, again, innocent)
💪😂
As a victim, the silent treatment is probably one of the worst tactics a person can use. Nobody can read another persons mind and yet it seems like they expect you to and may throw a tantrum if you get the answer wrong 🙄
yep.
Sometimes the narcissist expects an answer from us without them ever being the one to ask us the question they want an answer for in any way shape or form other than through their own body language towards us. Saying that is robbing the cradle now as a result of how often narcissists get away with what they do has become only a euphemism for getting away with doing that sort of thing.
Some ppl read my mind and I hate it
the narc only knows one mind and poorly at that, but its their own.
💯💯💯
I used to hate the silent treatment for the first few years, but now it's a gift. I actually really like it.
Yes it can be.
I love it. It's the only time I have peace.
Thanks! I greatly appreciate your work. I am an adult child of a grandiose narcissist who is learning that i married a covert narcissist. You’ve been instrumental in helping me help myself and my children while we navigate this. God bless you.
Glad to hear you've found my videos helpful. Thank you for supporting my channel!
😢 That’s me! 😮 My dad was a grandiose narcissist! My wife of a short time… is a textbook CNPD! 😮
This video has come at the right time, thank you, Doc!! Recently I'm being gaslit by a few family members, especially my older brother who keeps trying to convince me I'm insane, just because I refuse to speak to my abusive narc father, now take boundaries seriously, and also I refuse to endure the generational abuse. I'm being told things such as: "Are you normal? Do you need your medication?", "Stop overreacting and being defensive, be nice to your mother she gave you birth", "talk to your father he'll feel better", and so on. I also realized that I ended up making a huge mistake and allowing my emotions to speak for me, expecting these sick people to understand but oh boy I was wrong. Each and every emotion of mine has been weaponised and used against me. I feel absolutely angry and frustrated these days, have multiple panic attacks. It is so difficult to be young and live in a family full of narcissists and enablers. It's draining, so much to the point where it can drive a sane person to feel insane and even at times, suicidal.
You're spot on! Now that you know the sick dynamics at play in your family know that you can't change it. Move on to a better life outside of their perpetually sick mind games. Take and keep your power back from these emotional vampires. Find and honor your true self and pursue your dreams, not theirs. It may require moving some distance away but you will free and at peace.
You are not alone and Dr. Ramani has been such an educator and professional who has helped me navigate a family full of narcissistic individuals who don't take a break!
You didn't choose to be born, you don't owe anything to your mother because she birthed you. Totally ridiculous! Also, my guess is that, in your family of origin, you are not normal. I think that's a good thing.
Hang on to your true self. Sending you hugs,
@@alwayslearningthankyou2708 That is what I'm trying my best to do. Only now am I understanding the severity of this situation, all of them are messed up deeply. They keep telling me: "Oh why don't you open up and tell us everything, you don't have anybody else in life except your family" only to time and time again use my truth and my emotions against me and gaslight + belittle me. They say: "You are supposed to forgive your family, there are worse things that take place in the families of other people and yet they forgive and forget", all while they continue to emotionally and psychologically abuse me. The projections are the worst, I've been called selfish, a burden, even been told "jokes" by my older brother that involved being hit or being called straight up ugly for my appearance by him, but the moment he is confronted he turns it around and says "Oh its just a joke!". These people are sickening. Moving isn't an option as of right now, but every single day I'm developing a new symptom physically that concerns me. I cannot even speak of my medical needs without being blamed for illnesses THEY are responsible for. They control so many areas of my life and violate my boundaries. I'm only 17 but I'm trying my best to break this generational curse, so that my child doesn't have to suffer.
The worst part of this is, in my experience, when I make a conscious effort to communicate in a healthy respectful way, I feel like I'm being punished for it. It took me a long time, after becoming an adult, to realize that I wasn't a failure at communicating. Fact is that I was being forced to interact with an unhealthy form of communication by their cruel tactics growing up and gaslighted into thinking that I was the failure at communicating and consequently to blame for any escalation to a disagreement.
It is true that whenever the narcissist in their narcissistic patterns sees someone through their high levels of enthusiastic communications only making only a minor error which they are often correcting soon enough instead of allowing them to be only human they add it to their record keeping to use later when trying to punish us for not doing exact as they told us or when not doing exact what they want us to do no matter what our own wishes are.
@@francesbernard2445 It is indeed a situation of 'you're damned if you do and your damned if you don't'.
Exactly, my wife does nothing but lies, when you try to have a real conversation about what is really going on, she turns it around and makes me feel like everything is my fault, silent treatment until I give in,every time you give in, she just feels like yes this is the way to keep me down
Jesus H Christ. Screw it if my ex sees.
This thread is down to a T of what I experienced about two weeks prior. There were three instances of him using the silent treatment on me, and guess who felt it only right to initiate repair? Me. Always ME. Always. (I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong. I believe in growth, and that cannot be done without personal accountability.)
My Point: I can relate, and it is validating and gives me a sense of relief to see, know, and understand that there is a community of fellow survivors. And that there is a name to what we have experienced. And that the experience is real.
Uau. Same here. Was told tthat I don't know how to communicate... but only later I realised the oerdon did not want anything to be communicated - all healthy and transparent communication was sabotaged by them in different covert ways!
Oh well, my father used the silent treatment on me all my childhood, for the sole purpose of making me feel insignificant (my mother just generally ignored me but would at least reply to me). No wonder I attracted the most awful people later in life as I felt worthless, but now I'm healing and gaining myself back ! Thanks to Dr Ramani for her awesome work :)
I'm so sorry your parents did that. I would never ever give my child the silent treatment. The last thing I will say to my daughter before bed, or leaving the house is I Love You. We are not promised tomorrow and my last words to my child will not be negative
Dr. Ramani, you wear an invisible hero cape that only some of us see and cherish :) Thank you so much for helping me understand, arm up, and protect myself from these horrible people. It has lifted so much weight off my shoulders, and made room for more positive relationships and experiences!! Life CAN be good :)
"And tantrums are for children" geeze... that ... really hits so many actions they do
It's important to talk about the difference in the silent treatment given by the narc and the silent treatment, eventually given by the victim of the narc. While the former is a weapon, esp to punish, the latter is out of exasperation and when all else has failed , including trying to reason with the narc and tell them time n agn what their behavior does to u! I hope u make a video differentiating between these so the victims who have finally adopted the silent treatment towards the narc don't have self doubt or question themselves 🙏
The silent treatment can absolutely be a vacation
Silent treatment is a form of emotional abuse because narcs know they have been caught and called out and they can't handle it so they go silent
Narcissists are exhausting… they drain the life from you… which in turn keeps them thriving.
For my own wellbeing, I have recently distanced myself from a narcissistic ’friend’.
Since I am a people pleaser, this hasn’t been easy, as in free from feeling bad… but keep reminding myself that I have to take care of myself.
@@cynthiac219 absolutely
Agree. Take care of myself
@@user-o6ue45hz8nr2ap you must, because if you don’t who will? 🤷🏼♀️🙏
@@legaleagle4947 yes. I know. Thank you
That first tactic is actually heavily encouraged on social media, often under the guise of self care, and not tolerating "negativity". ANY disagreement is seen as negativity, rather than just a difference of views/opinion.
Social media is a narcissistic platform.
No-one can disagree with a narc. Their mind IS GOD and TRUTH and nothing else exists. It's scary really. The first narc I had the misfortune of befriending for decades literally thought of himself as god.
The narc will never humble themselves and repent anything as there is only their eternal now in which they were and always will be right.
Even my current narc issue after trying to kinda kidnap me against my will in a way through fraud said after I still didn't respond after leaving to save my job, "I expected this ghosting treatment from you but know communication is important."
If he expected this, then wtf was his plan? And how does he claim qualifications to be some life coach/slave driver? That's was when I realized, he was a narc as well.
I had realized that not a single desire of mine had been met just as it was no matter how small. He kept making demands on me while saying he was trying to no disturb my work.
Such that if I refuse, I look like an asshole because im in his house.
Right before he said something Saturday on my day off, "come when every ur ready, im working on you having a nice yard to hang out in buddy."
Already know where that's going. I need to write code to keep my job not landscape his yard as I must marshal my time and attention in ways a pot head real estate agent will never understand as "I know its like piece work ive done a lot of it.".
He has no friends and the only people who can tolerate his company are those with legal /professional obligations to do so.
Ask the Lake of the Ozark board of realtors who kicked him out for violence and aggression.
Pretty sure he is the problem not me, so he is getting ghosted as much as it hurts.
Anyone else say “Yep” over and over out loud while you listen to Dr Ramani’s videos?
I chose to go no contact with a narcissist, they then continued to text me and ask "why are you giving me the silent treatment?" They acted as if I was punishing them. I just wanted to get away from their abusive behavior
Did you tell them why you chose to be silent before doing it?! Otherwise, you’re doing the same?!
More of that, if you telling them about reasons and then goes silent or even blocking them, without communucation from the other side, without conversation about.. so this is pretty similar to a narcissistic discard. Be careful to not catch these simptoms.
They would give me the silent treatment in response to perceived, even though each time I took accountability, apologized and changed my behavior. and it made me really uncomfortable. I told them how much that hurt me and all they would do was gaslight me. then they got really angry when I tried to request boundaries around emotional intimacy and changed my work schedule to not be around them 👍🏾😃 They just can't handle a "no" and they can't handle taking responsibility for their own actions
I got the silent treatment for 6 months before I left my marriage last year. If she needed help with something there would be a brief pause but the silent treatment would start again straight afterwards. She was very upset and surprised when I left. Loss of control is very upsetting for a narcissistic person.
I do the same with a colleague from work.
My X used silent treatment until one day I out silenced him. When he was ready to talk again I stayed silent for the same amount of time he did. He never did it again!
💪
😂 NICE!
37 years with a covert narcissistic closet alcoholic. In the tail end of a two year divorce now. A few years ago he told me "When you try to talk to me about stuff, I just go outside and smoke some pot". Ok, so now let's add drug addiction to the issues. Thanks Dr Ramani for helping me slowly start to understand what I've been dealing with most of my adult life. Wish I had understood narcissism 40 years ago. 👍
Better to learn about it late than never to learn about it at all. Took me 38 years to see and accept I was in a relationship with a narc. Had to forgive myself for being so blind. He said “ we’ve been together so long we need to stay and take care of each other.” I said “no thanks. Can’t give you another day out if my life. You took enough.” Moved him out. Namaste….
I was dating this guy for 6 months. He said “ I will walk away if you ask me if we are exclusive”. He wanted all the benefits of a relationship but would never label it. When I called his bullshit, he ghosted me. It was awful! I am glad I got out sooner
It's never too late to start really living ❤
I don't think anyone understood narcissism 40 years ago. I didn't know what it was 18 years ago when a counselor told me the term & it's been quite the education, still learning. I'd taken a break & ignored it grey rocking for the last years to get by. Now he's pushing boundaries and here I am again, learning more.
@@Dee_Cooksyeah be glad
I've been feeling heavy, depressed because I'm finally understanding how sick my husband of 18 years is..and that it won't change. I used to hope and believe it could before. I now feel so bad because the person i agreed to spend my life with ..is emotionally like a child.
I've trained myself to not give an F and it was the best thing I've ever learned. Thank you Dr. Ramani
I'm currently going through this. It's hell, and this video really helped me.
Word salad? No no no no no, narcissists have the best words. They know all the words, the very best words. So smart, people go up to them crying. They say, "sir, your words were so beautiful. I'm a miner, haven't cried in 69 years, but your words made me cry." The best words.
😂😂😂😂😂
You got it! ❤
😂😂😂I agree totally!!!! They start to look like assholes!! Unless they stay in their "circle of trust, meaning his group of 4 friends at the country club! He feels safe there with his younger girlfriend,( his new supply) that I know that it was going on, before the divorce, although he denied everything for 45 YEARS and marriage! CLASSIC behavior!
No contact has been so wonderful for my daily peace of mind. Thank you for doing these videos.
Word Salad... that sounds exactly like many conversations we've had. I was under the impression that it was me not being able to keep on topic but when others heard him talking to me (via recording), others agreed that it made no sense to them either. I was so relieved but then started to worry about his mental health.
Nope,they know exactly what they are doing.they are trying to make you question yourself.😠
@@robig.5028 Agree. They're aware.
They know what they are doing: they don't 'word salad' to others. 😂
I still remember my mother's silent treatment , in the beginning was hurting me but to be honest at one moment I was happier to be treated silent than to be verbally aggressed and insulted and controlled by her. I considered those periods of time a good time to get on track and to restore myself, to rest . But sometimes , as she felt that , she was often the one to cut the silence and bite and bite and bite until I lost my cool and react , so I was feeling bad again , and sudden. It's disturbing to live in this way. And exhausting.
Yes!!! Re the silent treatment, if you learn to ignore it, enjoy it in a way, they will eventually cave because they will know that you are winning. They can't stand that. And yes, they may stop using that particular tactic, but rest assured they will reach into their bag of tricks and find another way to try on you. Stonewalling is pretty painful because it makes you feel rejected like you do not matter. It makes you realize just how one-sided the relationship is. It can backfire for them when they realize that you have stopped caring about their opinion since you no longer ask for it.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. I finally understand why it killed me inside when my narcissist husband gave me the silent treatment.
I am so thankful for you, Dr. Ramani. The first silent treatment, I still vividly remember, is my mother refusing to answer my questions. She was doing dishes, and I was begging, tugging at her apron, begging her to talk to me. I finally ran to my father, in tears, "There's something wrong with Mommy, she can't hear me!" He was intimidated by her, and instead of helping me, he explained, "She's upset with you because you do not want to go to cathechism. It was a lifetime of her silence. If I sat down at the dinnertable, and she had unexpressed frustration or anger, it was directed at me. She'd pick up her plate and take her food to her room. My father would blame me for "making your mother leave the room". When I reached adulthood, she refused to speak to me for 25 years, then died. I felt nothing but relief.
What a sick person she was. I am so sorry she abused you emotionally as a child. Much love.
Sorry your dad was her enabler
OMG, I am sorry. 🤗
Now you know : you were/are ok. This was wrong.
Thank you so much for sharing Dr. Ramani. I'm currently going through this with a few people I know and I've learned to just stop dealing with them. I've tried working out arguments by having adult conversations and when I realized that they just want to "keep arguing" because that's a form of comtrolling "your" emotions, now I walk away to collect my emotions and get some grounding.
I've learned to stop arguing, and made a point to them that I no longer argue and, so I no longer deal with them. Narcissists hate when they can't control your emotions. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather get the silent treatment vs continually dealing with their chaos.... I choose my peace and I pray for theirs.
I’ve dealt with both. I learned to just keep quiet and not take the bait with the narc who like to argue. It takes 2 to argue. He cannot argue with himself.
The other one who gave the listen treatment drove me nuts. Then I got used to it and I would just ignore him and stopped asking him what was wrong. He had a pattern, every few weeks I got the silent treatment. He finally discarded me. I didn’t know he was a narcissist while I was dealing with it. I used to tell him he was passive aggressive. Many years later, I learned that he was a narcissist.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for clarifying that going NO CONTACT is not a part of this. I was emotionally abused and coerced by someone who, after my multiple attempts to correct the situation, refused to be respectful, and I had to finally just go NO CONTACT. After a month of breathing free with no contact from her, she sent me a box of things that I had sent her over the years along with a scathing letter, saying that my heart is black LOL. I just tossed everything along with the letter, as it was confirmation that she didn't want to be respectful or caring.
Silent treatment combined with microaggressive behavior (for example, pushing the front seat way back to give me no leg room in the back, or breaking something of mine and pretending it was an accident, or bumping into me and pretending it was an accident, or disappearing when it's time for us to set up for an event)
Careful, if you're still in the relationship. 'Accidentally' hurting you can be a sign that the behaviour is transitioning from emotional abuse to full on physical abuse. That's what I read in the book 'the verbally abusive relationship'. Take care
@Essex Magpie in my case it was a friendship and professional partnership. No contact for 3 years, luckily. but I have no doubts the fights have gotten physical between them and their spouse.
Glad you got out this abusive relationship.
Had a coworker like this. Would try to spill water on me, use his body to block doorways so I had to stop , stand aside and let them push past me, while splashing water out of buckets onto my pants and into my shoes ( despite the fact the doorway is wide enough for a horse to turn a 360 in.) I was expected to take him places in my personal vehicle for FREE anytime I went anywhere. He tried to have me fired for leaning a pitchfork the wrong angle.....the boss fired me because I was making trouble. I was making him upset. I wasn't being a team player.
I've never been so happy to be fired.
Yeeeees: breaking my nice things 'by accident'.
very timely as my partner just gave me the silent treatment, after i said my non-negotiables, he hit me with "i miss you" lmao, that is after unfriending me from all social media and not talking to me. i told him if he needs space then i need space too.i realized there are so many fishes in the ocean and that i am worthy of someone better, someone secure and someone i can connect to deeply
If the good doctor and team would find the time, I would love to see, listen a deeper dive into a narcississm in medicine, in doctors, nurses etc. Because there are a lot of cases where doctors for instance gaslight a patient for their grievances. "It's all in your head, you are just stressed, you are imagening things, don't manifest illnesses etc." I really think this issue needs to be adressed, because medicine often misses underlying diagnoses and the patients are left to suffer😢. Thank you in advance. 🧡
As someone that has career working 25 years in the medical field. I 100% agree with you! This god like complex some of these MD’s have and expect to be treated as such! Im so over it I am considering a career change. It’s such a fake, toxic, kiss ass environment im over it! And don’t even get me started on the sexual harassment I have experienced over the years from most of these MD’s that are married mind you! The narcissism and god like complex have them convinced they are untouchable and above all.
Would have or instead a lot of good doctors who do not over prescribe only cannot do a deeper dive at all about that topic without putting their medical practice at risk while having to make referrals for their patients sometimes when they are having to cope with the odd narcissistic only specialist in their smaller former on the frontier not all that long ago in the city where they are practicing in too?
Been there with some cardiologist
Narcs only work jobs where they have control over others. This should be addressed
The person gaslighting and emotionally abusive in my life is a retired physician. No one challenges them, EVER.
Doctor Ramani, here is a little somthing to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this video. I honestly feel this video saved my life!
Thank YOU for supporting the channel!
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS WORD SALAD EXAMPLE OF THEIR ARGUING!!! It makes it so hard to explain arguments to friends when seeking support. They won’t stop until they see they’ve broken you, broken your will - made you cry. Logic need not apply. You Can’t EVER make them satisfied with anything you say back. It brings them satisfaction and I truly belief a release of endorphins or serotonin in them when they see you break/cry. They need their drug fix. It’s subtle but you can see their eyes soften and go from looking glaring/angry to satisfied.
It burns off your emotional feelers and you survive by separating yourself and walking around like a robot just to survive.
This is my dad to a "T". He completely ignores my existence unless he needs help, or wants to rehash old arguments. He also likes to take bad about me to people as I'm not in the same room with him. He never wants to have a vulnerable conversation. He just want me to go back to my old role of being a people-pleaser. I'm not a good daughter in his eyes because I fit the ideal image he wants. All he does know is stomp around the house in silence to let everyone in the house know that he's angry.
Yes. I’m saving this video. My ex would say, “I’m not even going to talk, I always say the wrong thing, so what’s the point?? I’m trying to say something but a different thing comes out, you don’t understand me, so there’s no point in talking”. I’d tell him he just needs to be careful on what he says, and to accept that he’s not always right, and he’d say, “you act like you’re always right, and I’m wrong, so you can say whatever, but I can’t? Wow, you always want everything your way that’s why we never get anywhere”. I’d just give up at that point, because it’s stressful to always be a therapist to someone who doesn’t want to work on themselves and doesnt see himself as a problem, rather a victim, and I’m his abuser. The silent treatment was used when I’d make him use his money for bills rather than weed. We both worked, we agreed what he’d pay, and I’d pay, (mind you, the bills were under my name since he moved in with me). When the bills were due, he would say he rather pay the bills late so he can buy his weed, I’d tell him no, he needs to pay the bills, kuz our kids are not going without light and a roof over their head. He’d say he’ll just pay the late fees, no biggie and I’d say no, either you pay the bills or we’re done, I’m not going to control how you use your money, but if you’re not going to do what me and you agreed on, we’re done. He ended up paying the bills, and slept on the couch, messaged women, get rides from other people to and from work instead of me like he usually did, he’d get his mom and sister to make him dinner instead of eating what I made at home. It was like we were roommates, all because I held him responsible. I wouldn’t apologize, I’d just give him a taste of his own medicine, so I wouldn’t wash his clothes, or do his dishes when he’d make something. He eventually yelled at me for being childish, petty, a bad girlfriend, and immature. The irony. I’d explain how he’s ignoring me and acting like my roommate, so I’ll treat him like one, and he’d start yelling about how I’m controlling, I’m so strict, I’m financially abusing him, I want everything my way, etc, etc. sometimes I would just apologize and give him what he wants, but it would end BADLY. He’d end up leaving me before the late fees of those unpaid bills would come, and I’d have to end up paying the bills, AND late fees. So when I’d bring those examples up to him, he’d say, “that’s was SO long ago!!! Idk how your mind thinks, but you need to let go of the past and move on, you’re always bringing up old sh*t, let’s talk about now, NOW, how recently have I done that???”. My response would be, “well I’m just mentioning it because those are repeated offenses, I’m going by patterns not your words, I’m not going to put me and my kids in an unstable situation, so either pay the bills, or we’re done”. He’d say, okay, since you’re saying I always bail, then what’s the point of proving you wrong, fine, I won’t pay them, pay them yourself, I’m out. So those “past” behaviors would be CURRENT behaviors, and if I’d bring THOSE up, he’d say I made him do those bad things so it’s my fault why he wasn’t responsible. I’d feel horrible, like I shouldn’t have doubted him, I shouldn’t think of the past, etc etc. but now i know, that man is a narcissist. Can’t no one change my mind on that.
Now coparenting with him, is harder than it was when we were together. He withholds child support, he puts my kids through verbal altercation situations, smokes with them in the same room/car, leaves our kids with toxic people when he wants to go out, etc. He ignores my texts and calls when I’m trying to get him to talk about something important like child support, his missed visitations, him hurting our kids, or his family hurting our kids. It’s HARD. Court is an option, but I fear him lying and trying to manipulate the judge about my character. He’s so good at acting like a victim and making me look like a bitter, angry ex. He did it before, and the judge scolded me, i didn’t speak up for myself, I could’ve defended myself but for some reason I just stayed quiet, i couldn’t speak, and the judge ended it by congratulating him for being such a good dad. I was confused, mad at myself, and I never went to court again.
Im adept at the silent treatment. And I'd rather be left alone because I'm introverted. My mother stopped putting me on timeout because i would be enjoying myself in the corner. So when I got older and I married a narc and she did the silent treatment, she found that I would enjoy being left alone and she wouldnt get supply. So she changed her tactics.
Hahaha...OMG. I can relate. My Mom put me in my room alone for hours by myself and it never worked. I loved being by myself. She eventually found other ways to punish me. LOL
I truly appreciate you ❤️ you gave me the tools to escape the Family abuse /scapegoat
BIngo! Hindsight is 20/20. I was always told that I acted like a child. Turns outs, all of these communication tactics confused the hell out of me!
I think sometimes the silent treatment is combined with the secretiveness of many narcissists- they are making their plans for the discard in their silence. Also gaslighting can be involved, as in saying, “Well, I don’t speak to you in the morning until you speak to me because I never know what mood you’re in”. (and where do we go from there?). It can get very convoluted. I’m three weeks out from this roller coaster ride (no contact-I’m done), and still amazed at what it’s shown me. A lesson I had to learn. Think this time I passed. Won’t need to do it again. 😎
❤❤❤💪💪💪
Toxic friendship have been my issue lately. Not seeing the signs because I wasn't aware of my own cognitive disorder from multiple childhood and adult traumas. Now I'm listening very closely at what people say and the vibe I get from them. I'm usually a happy person and all it takes is kindness to win me over. That's all in the past. I'm more attentive and alert negate in healing and refuse to allow anyone to destroy what's work so hard to rebuild within myself. I'm always doing the self check. I'm I hurting others with my ideas, actions or words and if so in what way? This way I can stop doing those things because I did care about how I make others feel and if they don't care about my feelings I'm out. Crossing my boundaries and anything that isn't aligned with my overall peace of mind. Your videos are very helpful because I can see where the signs come in and I can navigate my emotions accordingly and usually with minimal conflict. So thank you for gifting us with this very important info. I can see, feel, and know where I need healing and when it's actually happening or I've succeeded at overcoming a particular trigger. You're a gift and a blessing to all who come across your channel. New sub❤❤❤
Dr. Ramani, I love how you mimic the narcissist! “Woe is me. No one understands me.” So good!
This last year I was slowly rebuilding a relationship with a family member after many, many, many years. Out of no where began the silent treatment. Gotta say, I was stunned. They seemed they had grown out of this. After a few attempts to make contact ( maybe something had happened, they were going through) I finally told them: " I love you but I cannot chase you down." It still hurts. However, I must go on with my life and thrive. With or without them. Great breakdown & explination of this behavior. Ty!
They do NOT change ..from the inside!! The toxic do not WANT TO ...only pretend to unfortunately...!!
Im guessing you can’t rebuild a relationship with a narc. A narc is a narc. An alligator is an alligator. A spider is a spider. And so it goes…..
Adults choose their family.
Dr. Ramani, thank you. When I'm tempted to respond to the narcissist, I just watch your videos, and I'm reminded of exactly why I shouldn't.
And that word salad thing is scary, because that's what I've been dealing with. It seems- for now, at least- the less I feed him supply, the crazier the narcissist's rants become. It's like he's throwing anything at the wall to see if something will get my reaction.
The word salad is evil for sure
Getting out of those abusive and crazy making relationships is vital If you want to live a peaceful and normal life.
agree
My daughter is so grateful to you, so am I for the help you have given both of us, you should be given an award for all you do, thank you so much for everything, we watch all your videos, you are amazing.
My mother was the queen of the silent treatment. It was devastating as a young child. When people know this they use it against me knowing how hurtful it is. Tells me alot about a person when they are quick to hurt me with something so painful.
You never fail to have unbelievable timing with these topics in my life. 😮 I am dealing with the silent treatment from a "friend". She's also begun a smear campaign, including talking about me in unnamed social media comments with mutual friends. I'm proud to say though, after the catalyst- telling her directly, privately, that I felt hurt by her attitude during a discussion about money- at which she blamed me and ranted a full 2 paragraphs about how "after all I've done for you" guilt trip garbage, I recognized her silently leaving our group chats as the silent treatment. I said to myself, 'oh, she expects me to dm and beg her not to go!" 😂 hold your breath, sweetie.
Thank you so much for your work!!!
Dr. Ramani is the G.O.A.T.❤❤
I had to stay silent when I was with my ex, because anything I said would be used against me, cruelly. The times I did try to talk things out with him, it almost always made it worse. So, I felt awful staying silent at times, but it always just felt like the best way to keep myself a bit safer when he was angry.
That's how my experience was too. Every single thing I'd say got twisted.
Thank you for this video.
I'm in this silent treatment at this time. I saw & hear your video that make my life more and more cleaner and now I know why my problems like this. I had gone to a therapy but my therapist was not understanding the problems so I thought my problems are unsolvable and I'm all alone in this world. Thank you so much your video helps a lot.
Thank you, Dr. Ramini, for explaining with such clarity this crazy-making dynamic running rampant through my own family system. It's such a toxic, no-win style. You are the voice of sanity I needed to hear today.
That is why you need to talk directly.
Period
I used to frequently use the silent treatment when I was in a toxic relationship. When they flip, there’s no having a normal conversation. Its just insults, blame shifting, threats, straight up lies, changing history, making accusations, and changing what you said in order to use it as a reason to keep raging. Imo it was easier to just get away from it by going into another room or shutting off my phone.
Avoidance
I learnt how to deal with the silent treatment in marriage by ignoring it and continuing as normal- as you said it’s a childish form of communication
Thank you Dr. Ramani for making the distinction between the classical use of the term "word salad" in psychology as compared to the way it's used when talking about narcissism. I heard it come up in some videos on narcissism, and having only had an understanding of the term "word salad" in its traditional use, I kept thinking, "That's not quite what a word salad is." I am glad to hear a trained and licensed treatment provider make the distinction and validate the use of the term for narcissism.
I work at an inpatient behavioral health hospital. The most devastating personal experience I've had with word salads has been conversations with an alcoholic suffering from "wet brain" (the clinical term is slipping my mind). He would start conversations making total and complete sense, but by the third or fourth sentence it devolved into complete word salad. So sad. He was a very intelligent man. He destroyed his cognition with alcohol 😥
I would like to hear more about silence. Coming out of a nonstop, narcissistic relationship, silence was a place for me to create boundaries for myself and protect myself from the chaos and manipulation and confusion of conversations with my narcissistic spouse. I needed to avoid those conversations because they were incredibly toxic and confusing. I was trying to decide if I was staying or leaving and needed to disengage from those confusing conversations. I’d like to hear some discussion about the difference between safe silence and narcissistic silence.
That's my question too. How do we differentiate between "no contact" and "silent treatment"?
@@Ripley917my question as well. Safe Silence would be helpful.
I agree. What's the difference between silent treatment and not engaging.
Love your videos. I’m just learning that I have been with a narcissist for 34years! I now have failing health and emotional issues.. Two deceased adult children who I now know in my heart would still be alive if not for the toxic environment I allowed us to live with through his control! Thank you for opening my eyes and teaching me how to continue to move forward and how to deal with hi. Oh boy you sound just like every part of him. Bless you for helping so many!!! 💕🙏. Yep,he goes through our-son which has caused great problems for his mental health and he is now treating me poorly. They do turn them against you!!!
Dr Ramani - you are a ray of hope in an otherwise very dark experience of narcissistic abuse. thank you for your steadfast, smart and funny (!) approaches to this awful thing called narcissistic abuse.
Word Salad! The example given was the exact scenario I had experienced from 2 different partners! Now I know why I was left feeling totally bamboozled! Thankyou!
This has been what I experienced as a child teen and adult. When I was fighting cancer and when I had my baby. I always thought it was my fault I would always apologize they would turn the family on me. My self esteem was so low. This channel is helping me so much.
Word Salad!!! Love this part of the video. It happens to me exactly as you explained....they want to make so confused and feel guilty that you forget what you where trying to discuss or explain. Thank you so much for your videos. I am using all your tools to move on from my narcissist husband who ened our 30 year marriage now that he has a new supply.
11:41 I LOOOOOVE THE SILENT TREATMENT. It’s my most favorite thing EVER.
The world salad explanation 35:56 is frighteningly accurate. I found it was used whenever we were having a serious conversation. About anything. Even something like did you take the bins out? They response would be 'did you?' It made every day increasingly impossible to just do normal adult resonsible things like, communicate, plan, shop, clean etc. It was so incredibly strange. She would deliberately talk about shallow lighthearted things all the time. 'Look at those puppys, beautiful weather, its so cold, I'm so tired.' Of course these things arent bad at all but it was the same thing every day hundreds of times throughout the day. I came to understand this was a deliberate avoidance tactic and way to control the relationship. Anything I would say that was of substance would be 'drama.' Like 'hey you said you'd organise dinner but you haven’t and I've been at work all day.' 'I'm not your maid' 'I know this but you clearly said you had dinner organised.' It was like living with a six year old.
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
Been there buffled by that same s#@! of 'communication'.
Yes, spot on, yuuuuuup! All insanely accurate to these egotistical demons.
NARC FREE IN 2023!
They are truly demons
Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for living and breathing narcissism-and going further with research and study to share accurate knowledge with us!
I've studied psychology for years. NLP. Madenes, whose psychodynamic theories are useful, and others. Freud and Jung, obviously. The love languages stuff. The brilliant John Gottman. All great stuff. But no one comes close to Dr. Ramini. She's a genius. No one comes close.
Out of the 4, word salad makes me the most frustrated. If I can avoid a narc, I do it. If I’m communicating with one, it’s because I absolutely have to. When I’m forced to do so, having that jumbled up, sidetracking, all over the place, exchange, makes my blood pressure rise. I *hate* word salad.
Yours videos have being a life line and what helped me leave a terrible relationship as finally could make sense of all these behaviours and stop being manipulated
Every single manipulation tactic all but implies the use of the lying tactic and the gaslighting tactic. I actually dislike it a little calling out gaslighting as a manipulation tactic as it's actually an effect. All manipulation tactics will contribute to it by nature of what manipulation is. Some tactics however certainly take the gaslighting effect to a whole different level. Blatant lies that are so bad they insult your intelligence is one of them. That kind of shit will make you feel like you are in the twilight zone after a while. Here are some of the reasons they do this: To test their control. To feel superior and/or entertainment. This proves to themselves how much control they have over you. In the end, you will give up and you will not leave (trauma bonded). In the process of getting to the giving up stage, you will go through some pretty nasty emotional states ending in massive amounts of cognitive dissonance to swallow all of that. Cognitive dissonance is a trauma defense mechanism where you essentially lie to yourself in various ways so that you can bring back some semblance of equilibrium to the insanity you find yourself unable to escape from. As part of the ‘backing you into an emotional corner’ tactic. This is a tactic where you are manipulated into being emotionally unstable inevitably leading to you losing your shit. This gives the narcissist a big dopamine burst, they feel powerful and superior having so deftly controlled you and manipulated into this emotional state. To finish the little game they play, they make sure to point out how unhinged and unstable you are and suggest that perhaps you need help or medication. Of course, you will internalize all that shame and guilt and the million other raging emotions they have created and swallow all that essentially allowing them to scapegoat their blame and accountability onto you. Bring on some more cognitive dissonance and gaslighting effects. To condition you to expect less respect, and ultimately put up with more abuse. You will tire of the inevitable circular argument trying to convince the narcissist of the blatantly obvious lie and eventually find yourself challenging them less and less as you subconsciously accept the fact that if you do it will just make your life and emotional state more miserable and you will be denied the satisfaction of any kind of ‘win’ even if it is easy to disprove. This is part of the domination process and makes sure all the power in the relationship ends up with them by the end. To turn your mind to mush as the gaslighting effect takes hold more and more over time. This makes you even easier to control. Many times while easy to disprove it requires some kind of concession of some obvious truth that the narcissist can just doggedly refuse to agree with or remember (‘the intentional forgetting’ tactic and the ‘feigned confusion or ignorance’ tactics are often employed for this). So, in fact, it is not so easy to prove when the narcissist refuses to correctly remember what happened 10 min ago or accept sound logic or reasoning. You will just turn blue in the face trying. Of course, in some cases it is indisputable. A phone log or something. My experience is when this kind of stuff happens it wasn’t their intention typically, although sometimes it was. But in these scenarios, you will typically get some sort of angry ‘invalidating’ tactic, with some good old ‘manufactured rage’ and ‘intimidation’ tactics to ‘put you on the defensive’ and get you more susceptible to further manipulation. Maybe something like: “Get over yourself already” followed up by some ‘blame-shifting’ tactics with some good old ‘guilt’ and ‘shame’ tactics, like “Why the hell are you spying on my phone records anyway? What kind of relationship is this? I don’t have any privacy? I don’t know if I can do this anymore! You have major jealousy issues! You need help!” You will walk away as the loser either way. There are resistance tactics that can be used but this is a very difficult tactic to deal with and it is one of their favorites. I won’t get into the counter-tactics here though. The only way to really win in a relationship with a narcissist is to leave them and go no contact. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done Metaspyhub@gmail. com..
Woww 🙇♀️it sounds like you’re going through some serious stuff here. Your abuser sounds like a coercive-narcissist. Before he murders you, or you kill him, please, take yourself (and your young children, if any), and ESCAPE, through the nearest exit, or outlet!!
@@jeanie5074 funny you should say before you kill him. I had a friend who had an abusive girlfriend. The girlfriend used to go to softball and come home drunk, and beat up my friend. One night my friend had enough, she struck girlfriend one time in the head with the bat and killed her. From the time we were 30 until we were forty-five, my friend was in Marquette prison for women in Michigan! Reactive abuse is real.👍☮️
How have you detailed my experience? I don't think you missed any part of it. Wow
@@Alize.W I felt the same!
@@lisat273i know the feeling 2 ;)
I was about thirteen, I traveled somewhere and when I came back my mom wasn't talking to me. For two months I tried to figure out why.
Eventually I dug up my diary that was locked and hidden behind a drawer in my room. There it was. A pages long rant from my mother on how I could berate her to my "dear diary". She didn't let me go to a party, so I ranted and cursed at my diary. I was working up my courage to trust my diary with the abuse I was suffering. That halted everything. I had nowhere and no one to turn to. I am 46, just now I started writing up my memories from that time.
Wow, that's really tough
@@msaijay1153 Thank you for understanding. When I tell this (minus the abuse part) to people what I hear is often: Ah, moms are like that!
@antiantipodi: Reminds me of an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, where the narc manipulative mother finds her adult son's adolescent teen's diary.
@@suraya1224 I don't think I have seen any episodes of Everybody Loves Raymond, but I guess it is a comedy. Making fun of abusive mothers? Really?
In my late 50's now.
I appreciate your videos they've helped me understand past issues with family 👪 friends & of course boyfriend's 😉
Over the years I've realized 😳 mental health issues in society are being ignored and never addressed which leads to so many falling between the cracks.
If only I had this to listen to as a child! Or heck, even in my 20's. At least at 50 I'm finally understanding my life.😅 Love what you're doing Dr Ramani!
Thank you again Dr. Ramani. I am in a relationship with my sister that has been hard to understand she has been stone walling me for years and I never knew why, this podcast has cleared up the why. This is life changing for me, it is going to be hard, as you know, but at least now I can do the work to take care of me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Dr. Ramani, this is incredibly eye opening and glad to know us women deserve better than to stay with someone like this. It’s only now I fully comprehend who this person really was
Word salad sounds absolutely bonkers, I had no idea that was a thing
You completely saved me! I’m able to live with peace happiness and freedom having the knowledge you taught me! You liberated me!!! This knowledge is so essential for anyone living in today’s world!!
Brilliant and perfect breakdown of what I'm dealing with right now. Wow.
Me wearing headphones and enjoying UA-cam and music at home blocks my narcissist partner, and it gives me piece of mind and joy!
Stonewalling was such a huge issue (among many others) in my past abusive relationship. It left in me in a constant state of rumination and unable to have any closure or resolution. I would end up having the same conversations over and over and trying my best to word it in the “perfect” way so as to elicit a different response. Any response! He always would pick and choose what he would reply to and it was usually something so minuscule and unrelated, then take offence and deflect it back on me. I always ended up confused and not realising what happened until hours later. It’s torturous!
There was absolutely no resolution. There was no care from the stone waller. The silent treatment and the mind reading factor were huge. I experienced so much of this and it feels good to have an understanding of what was happening to me. Thank You Dr.Ramani ❤.
I would LOVE the silent treatment!
It is torture when you are living in it. But I understand why you said that, especially if you are dealing with a narc who likes to argue. I dealt with both. Both are emotionally abusive
I found the silence delightful. I'd make phone calls, take a shower, etc. without telling him (or asking, as he preferred). At least I knew he wasn't going to interrupt me or 'need' my attention.
2 things I wish I have learned 23 years ago, one of them is how to deal with a communal narcissist friend, throughout our friendship she started to control me and when I finally understood (thanks to Dr Romani's videos) the kind of relationship we had I managed to break it and at the moment she is doing exactly the silent communication.
Look at it as good riddance. Don’t call that ‘friend’ back. If, and when she calls you, do-not-answer her/him, and, go seek therapy w/someone like Dr. Ramani ❤🎉
Your wise words have helped me so much. My narcissist left after us living together for 11 years with no word or explanation - so confusing and hurtful.
I would like to differentiate the " silent treatment" of a narc from the situation where you have tried to talk to people/ get them to see what's important to you but their disrespect etc is so bad that you have to walk away and stay silent for your own mental health. So the silence is to protect yourself until you can get the energy to re engage with them/ build up your self respect and go through that cycle again
I came here to say this!!
@@christineebbinghaus9433 I wanted to say the same!
Silent treatment is my "weapon" as well. As i'd rather expend my energy to something productive as well.