The problem with using one woofer to cover the entire frequency response is high frequency beaming. This is what you're talking about when you mentioned the high frequencies going away when moving your head, this is one of the reasons we have a separate high frequency driver.
So, you really didn't hear full range drivers with special elements in the center of speaker cone to transduce high frequencies. Theh most benefit of "single driver" monitor is it's linear phase response.
@@jenyasonic9002yea, and on top of that, a linear phase response is easily achieved with some simple DSP anyway. I would just go with a 3 way dsp speaker instead
I had made my DIY version cube ages ago with dayton drivers & miniDSP, fun project since and is easy to calculate single driver speakers and with closed enclosures is hard to fail, a classic trick that probably is used here in the DSP is the Linkwitz transform to extend the bass frequency, those are I think sb acoustic 15nac30-8 drivers, the 10k boost seems to be part of the natural response of those, but then again they are technically 80 EUR Mid-Woofers paired with a fancy IR loader in a box
Made myself an Auratone clone 4 years ago. Found documentation online and started digging forums for info and managed to find posts of a person who fixed those back in the day and shared replacement driver ideas he used to replace original ones. I managed to grab a few of those drivers from the webshop in the Netherlands as they're now discontinued. From a datasheet, I recreated the box and added an amplifier. It was a fun project.
I really like how you hear low frequencies coming from these monitors with your ears but don't feel them in a usual way with your body. Weird but cool!
grot box. gotta have a set. Idea being that "good sounding speaker" actually makes mixing for multiple platforms more difficult than "average sounding speaker". Pretty simple concept.
I bought a pair as I had corona and wanted to produce some music at home. I was really impressed... They perform also good in a not treated room - the smaller the sweetspot - the less HF energy is ging to hit the environment.. The developer - Andrew responded also quickly to my mails as I had some questions. 5O Hz is btw pretty low for such speaker and they do it! Regarding missing HF - well in other review of supercubes was told that we are used to harmonic distortion which many speakers produce a way to much.. - supercubes sound a little bit less colored than the most speakers I ever heard in this price range..
Besides timing precision, (as someone posted below, Tannoys GOLDS concentric design definitely nailed it) but also, Auratones where really important back when everyone didnt have good sound rigs, and mostly listened through the TV Speaker....
Nice expose on the interesting new small speakers! I'd love to see you review the Swiss PSI nearfields, 17-m and/or A14-M , from what I can tell they are very accurate - and powerful (maybe too powerful?) - more money than I want to spend, but my Kali IN5's (though nice to listen to) are really no better than my Yamaha HS5's, and not as detailed in the tops - (I do use the Avantone MIxcubes they are a 'life saver' )
Hot take/opinion. I think headphones should be a must too, exactly two, something flat like m40x or 50 or behringer(idk which ones in particular) or those senhiser open back ones. Just for the reason that it's easier to catch harsh peaks and harshnes, some say that headphones have a tendency to sound compressed, and the good thing about it is that it can help finding background clutter. And secondly, apple wired earbuds, cuz they are literally the standard for earbuds and literally how most of the world will listen. Bonus - Maybe also have a cheap car like maybe a mk.2 golf or something. Stationary it can sound good, but when driving, the road and engine noise drowns out maybe important elements that are too quiet.
i think the analog imperfections are nice when you can use them voluntarily. but having them baked in the gear without any option to reconsider is bad :)
You know the difference between Strat and Les Paul? Well DMAX are Strats. They are way, waaay more detailed, but Neumanns are more... fullrangy? more musical? sound bigger? 120-s can go much louder and they sound more "glued together", and Cubes are frightingly natural. When you hear a violin, it's not a sound, it's a small violin right in front of your face - never felt like this on Neumanns. Cubes + KH120 + Sub or Cubes + KH150/310 are killer options imho.
I have d max at home and neumanns in a project studio where I am producing from time to time.. Neumanns sound more colored imho. but they are also louder..
This is Russian company making awesome clinical relatively affordable monitors. When I went to Russia one of my mate had another monitors from them called 261. I was hoping to buy them but for known reasons it is not that easy to import from Russia to uk at the moment. Glad they come on global market. As soon they have 261 available I’m buying 1st.
I'd like to see these things measured on a Klippel near-field scanner by someone like Erin's Audio Corner or Audio Science Review. Your measured HF response shows almost 10dB in variance adn looks simply terrible, and they claim +-2dB. Seems like the directivity is also extremely poor given the ultra-small sweet spot, which would be expected for a 5 inch full range driver. No amount of DSP is capable of fixing that limitation.
I have a question... I know the Avantone mixcube frequency response is 90hz-17khz... It is not the same to cut the low and the hi frequencies in the master bus in order to get that response on my regular monitors???
it requires one widerange speaker (biggest cubes i saw were 6 inches) and closed box with no invertor hole. most fullrange monitors have 2 and more speakers so they have phase issues. BUT on every monitor isolating 100hz..10khz AND more narrow parts of the spectrum is a good idea and it can give you a fresh look on the mix, especially if you compare it to some reference tracks
Isn’t all a matter of knowing your monitors? I heard that Skrillex makes top notch mixes while on the road with less proven material to work with but he knows his tools and therefor can make great mixes. I mix and master with krk rp8 g4’s and must say it’s a huge upgrade over the older 5 series i had, but in the end it’s all about knowing them properly
Actually no, learning to adapt to poor monitoring is part of what's called the Circle of Confusion. Give it a google for more info, maybe toss in the words audio or speaker into the search terms to narrow it down to the correct info.
I've used Supercubes 4 for one year. Not that bad, but definitely not good. Better check speakers like budget Adams for its price. Plus, I've had 2 issues with woofer. Repaired twice. Different problems. Yes, it's free with warranty, but this is nightmare for professional. THD is also very poor.
Best speakers I heard in that price range are APS Klasik 2020. For more money, they also make sealed coaxial monitors with optional bass extenders, so you can have a very stable stereo image and amazing low end in stereo if you are willing to pay for it.
Fullrange drivers can have some benefits, but their drawbacks outweigh the pro's in my experience. 1000 euro for a single driver in a wooden box is kinda silly to anyone with speaker design experience. You can definitely just make your own for a fraction of the cost. Lots of people like markaudio drivers for this.
@@Photoshopper13 btw, many headphones isn't fast as you may though. For example, Sennheiser HD600 is really fast. And equal to this SC5. Audeze LCD line also fast. But, popular M50X, DT770, DT990, 7506 slower. Tell you as owner off that zoo
The less limited the proper speakers are these days, there is less reason for these worse situation speakers... but, not completely yet. Not a fan myself
What's wrong with Avantone Pro MixCubes? Or make your own cubes or 2 ways, dude. Also don't laugh at .Behringer NX1000D Power Amplifier with DSP because it's class D.
first you need to listen to the cubes))) and then I think you will change your mind... the Dello headphones are good but can hardly be the final monitoring... this is an amazing monitor system, very accurate, very fast and amazing with the roughness and relief of the sound stage... it works like a surgical scalpel...
@@RyanHarris77So no wonder why you tell people that the best they can do is mixing with headphones…bu this is simply not true. I mix on Neumann KH310s, a pair Avantone Mixcubes, a mono Behritone and on Audeze LCD-X headphones. The Audeze are great, but all this together is awsome for mixing. But only headphones…no way sorry.
@@axoplanet6081 the only issue with this is there are people that mix on headphones exclusively, and not just hobbyists or bedroom musicians. There are people at the pinnacle of mastering that also use monitors exclusively. You can point out the downsides all you want, but people are mixing and mastering for major labels and radio play exclusively on headphones. So, yes.
Hilarious how you need to walk on egg shells these days when simply talking about speakers. There are so many disclaimers and clarifications here just so that people don't get offended :D
The problem with using one woofer to cover the entire frequency response is high frequency beaming. This is what you're talking about when you mentioned the high frequencies going away when moving your head, this is one of the reasons we have a separate high frequency driver.
So, you really didn't hear full range drivers with special elements in the center of speaker cone to transduce high frequencies. Theh most benefit of "single driver" monitor is it's linear phase response.
@@jenyasonic9002yea, and on top of that, a linear phase response is easily achieved with some simple DSP anyway. I would just go with a 3 way dsp speaker instead
Not only that but the inter modulation distortion would be very high as well on a full ranger
I had made my DIY version cube ages ago with dayton drivers & miniDSP, fun project since and is easy to calculate single driver speakers and with closed enclosures is hard to fail, a classic trick that probably is used here in the DSP is the Linkwitz transform to extend the bass frequency, those are I think sb acoustic 15nac30-8 drivers, the 10k boost seems to be part of the natural response of those, but then again they are technically 80 EUR Mid-Woofers paired with a fancy IR loader in a box
Out of all DSP corrected monitors I ever worked with DMax are unmatched.
D-Max 261 I mean. But Cubes are really nice to work with too.
Made myself an Auratone clone 4 years ago. Found documentation online and started digging forums for info and managed to find posts of a person who fixed those back in the day and shared replacement driver ideas he used to replace original ones. I managed to grab a few of those drivers from the webshop in the Netherlands as they're now discontinued. From a datasheet, I recreated the box and added an amplifier. It was a fun project.
I love my pair of supercubes! Had mine just over a year
I think the Tannoy Gold dual concentric do an awesome job of ‘fusing’ the bass/treble sound at a very short distance. They sound like just one driver.
Have had them for the last year to two and love them! I pair them with a set of Genelecs, but it's neck and neck!
Interesting review, thanks!
I really like how you hear low frequencies coming from these monitors with your ears but don't feel them in a usual way with your body. Weird but cool!
grot box. gotta have a set. Idea being that "good sounding speaker" actually makes mixing for multiple platforms more difficult than "average sounding speaker". Pretty simple concept.
I bought a pair as I had corona and wanted to produce some music at home. I was really impressed... They perform also good in a not treated room - the smaller the sweetspot - the less HF energy is ging to hit the environment.. The developer - Andrew responded also quickly to my mails as I had some questions.
5O Hz is btw pretty low for such speaker and they do it! Regarding missing HF - well in other review of supercubes was told that we are used to harmonic distortion which many speakers produce a way to much.. - supercubes sound a little bit less colored than the most speakers I ever heard in this price range..
Besides timing precision, (as someone posted below, Tannoys GOLDS concentric design definitely nailed it) but also, Auratones where really important back when everyone didnt have good sound rigs, and mostly listened through the TV Speaker....
Nice expose on the interesting new small speakers! I'd love to see you review the Swiss PSI nearfields, 17-m and/or A14-M , from what I can tell they are very accurate - and powerful (maybe too powerful?) - more money than I want to spend, but my Kali IN5's (though nice to listen to) are really no better than my Yamaha HS5's, and not as detailed in the tops - (I do use the Avantone MIxcubes they are a 'life saver' )
What software/dsp do you use to correct your speakers/room?
And if you compare them to, let's say, a pair of NS-10s, which one would you say translates the most as a pair of secondary monitors? Thanks so much!
So what is the DSP being used?
Super Cutes 🧡
Hot take/opinion. I think headphones should be a must too, exactly two, something flat like m40x or 50 or behringer(idk which ones in particular) or those senhiser open back ones. Just for the reason that it's easier to catch harsh peaks and harshnes, some say that headphones have a tendency to sound compressed, and the good thing about it is that it can help finding background clutter. And secondly, apple wired earbuds, cuz they are literally the standard for earbuds and literally how most of the world will listen.
Bonus - Maybe also have a cheap car like maybe a mk.2 golf or something. Stationary it can sound good, but when driving, the road and engine noise drowns out maybe important elements that are too quiet.
i think the analog imperfections are nice when you can use them voluntarily. but having them baked in the gear without any option to reconsider is bad :)
How the Dmax compares to Neumann KH120A? Something to highlight there? 😊
You know the difference between Strat and Les Paul? Well DMAX are Strats. They are way, waaay more detailed, but Neumanns are more... fullrangy? more musical? sound bigger? 120-s can go much louder and they sound more "glued together", and Cubes are frightingly natural. When you hear a violin, it's not a sound, it's a small violin right in front of your face - never felt like this on Neumanns. Cubes + KH120 + Sub or Cubes + KH150/310 are killer options imho.
I have d max at home and neumanns in a project studio where I am producing from time to time.. Neumanns sound more colored imho. but they are also louder..
@@Photoshopper13 thank you for this comparison.
@@cosmicsoulsofficial thank you for sharing it.
This is Russian company making awesome clinical relatively affordable monitors. When I went to Russia one of my mate had another monitors from them called 261. I was hoping to buy them but for known reasons it is not that easy to import from Russia to uk at the moment. Glad they come on global market. As soon they have 261 available I’m buying 1st.
they ship from Slovakia, I asked about the UK few months ago. You just have to pay tax fee (40 pounds or smth like that).
@@Photoshopper13 good to know. Thanks!
I'd like to see these things measured on a Klippel near-field scanner by someone like Erin's Audio Corner or Audio Science Review. Your measured HF response shows almost 10dB in variance adn looks simply terrible, and they claim +-2dB. Seems like the directivity is also extremely poor given the ultra-small sweet spot, which would be expected for a 5 inch full range driver. No amount of DSP is capable of fixing that limitation.
me wants but do they play sandstorm? are they good for connecting to a push 3? and you should get payed for this video!
I have a question... I know the Avantone mixcube frequency response is 90hz-17khz... It is not the same to cut the low and the hi frequencies in the master bus in order to get that response on my regular monitors???
I think its about transient response as he said in the Video. (Tempo) Besides that, yes, this Trick works and can help. Magic is in the midrange :))
it requires one widerange speaker (biggest cubes i saw were 6 inches) and closed box with no invertor hole. most fullrange monitors have 2 and more speakers so they have phase issues. BUT on every monitor isolating 100hz..10khz AND more narrow parts of the spectrum is a good idea and it can give you a fresh look on the mix, especially if you compare it to some reference tracks
@@Dispoboy1 Thank you for your answer!!! I don't have the Avantones so I can't do the comparison for myself...
@@Photoshopper13 Thank you for your answer!!! I don't have the Avantones so I can't do the comparison for myself...
Isn’t all a matter of knowing your monitors? I heard that Skrillex makes top notch mixes while on the road with less proven material to work with but he knows his tools and therefor can make great mixes. I mix and master with krk rp8 g4’s and must say it’s a huge upgrade over the older 5 series i had, but in the end it’s all about knowing them properly
Knowing your monitors definitely helps, but obviously getting to know better monitors would be better. It’s all relative.
Actually no, learning to adapt to poor monitoring is part of what's called the
Circle of Confusion. Give it a google for more info, maybe toss in the words audio or speaker into the search terms to narrow it down to the correct info.
Skrillex doesn't mix by himself as far as I know...
I cover these speakers on my channel. Very beautiful speakers and my mains for mastering.
I've used Supercubes 4 for one year. Not that bad, but definitely not good. Better check speakers like budget Adams for its price.
Plus, I've had 2 issues with woofer. Repaired twice. Different problems. Yes, it's free with warranty, but this is nightmare for professional.
THD is also very poor.
Best speakers I heard in that price range are APS Klasik 2020. For more money, they also make sealed coaxial monitors with optional bass extenders, so you can have a very stable stereo image and amazing low end in stereo if you are willing to pay for it.
Fullrange drivers can have some benefits, but their drawbacks outweigh the pro's in my experience. 1000 euro for a single driver in a wooden box is kinda silly to anyone with speaker design experience. You can definitely just make your own for a fraction of the cost. Lots of people like markaudio drivers for this.
More Oompf and Tsss...got ya
What is timing precision?
Impulse response as closer to dirac impulse as possible
Transients are faster than in many headphones
@@Photoshopper13 btw, many headphones isn't fast as you may though. For example, Sennheiser HD600 is really fast. And equal to this SC5. Audeze LCD line also fast. But, popular M50X, DT770, DT990, 7506 slower. Tell you as owner off that zoo
Those are SB Acoustic drivers in the DMAX. Good drivers.
Do you know which drivers? Thanks
@@kipsus audio-hi.fi/download/pdf/SB-Acouscics_SB15CAC30-8_woofer.pdf
Likely the SB15NAC30-8 woofer.
I hate how this kind of FIR correction filters is not done yet on cheap speakers to at least get them all closer to flat response.
I think cheaper speakers don’t have any dsp on board 🤔
Abacus C Box 3 for sure the best monitor under 1k€ 🎉
Best choice to mix "concrete" music))
@@jenyasonic9002 what do you mean? 👽😆
Auratones are SOUND Cubes. Avantone are Mixcubes.
360 euros shipped to Oz,ouch!
It's looks like a car speakers in a box
The less limited the proper speakers are these days, there is less reason for these worse situation speakers... but, not completely yet.
Not a fan myself
What's wrong with Avantone Pro MixCubes? Or make your own cubes or 2 ways, dude. Also don't laugh at .Behringer NX1000D Power Amplifier with DSP because it's class D.
Comment for da algorithm
Streak count: 211
To answer your question: no.
I'll pass 🙂
The best thing you can use under $1000 is headphones.
first you need to listen to the cubes))) and then I think you will change your mind... the Dello headphones are good but can hardly be the final monitoring... this is an amazing monitor system, very accurate, very fast and amazing with the roughness and relief of the sound stage... it works like a surgical scalpel...
I only use headphones. Sold my last set of nearfields years ago.
@@RyanHarris77So no wonder why you tell people that the best they can do is mixing with headphones…bu this is simply not true.
I mix on Neumann KH310s, a pair Avantone Mixcubes, a mono Behritone and on Audeze LCD-X headphones. The Audeze are great, but all this together is awsome for mixing. But only headphones…no way sorry.
@@axoplanet6081 the only issue with this is there are people that mix on headphones exclusively, and not just hobbyists or bedroom musicians. There are people at the pinnacle of mastering that also use monitors exclusively. You can point out the downsides all you want, but people are mixing and mastering for major labels and radio play exclusively on headphones. So, yes.
Hilarious how you need to walk on egg shells these days when simply talking about speakers. There are so many disclaimers and clarifications here just so that people don't get offended :D
You need to walk on eggshels simply talking about anything 😑
Ooo a Cubee.