The Ancient Greeks Who Converted to Buddhism
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
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Greece is very far away from the heartland of early Buddhism in India and parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan. But thanks to Alexander the Great, Hellenistic and Buddhist cultures came into contact in the 4th century BCE, creating a cultural synthesis known as Greco-Buddhism.
00:00 A Greco-Bactrian Buddhist Inscription
1:41 The Hellenistic "Far East"
4:10 Pyrrho: A Buddhist for Greece?
7:42 Ashoka and his Dharma Conquest
10:23 King Menander: The Most Famous Greek Buddhist
13:26 Greco-Buddhist Art of Gandhara
15:23 Syncretism?
16:44 Nebula! Indie creators being awesome
Select imagery/video supplied by Getty Images and Reuters
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Buddhist greeks in afghanistan just sounds so random
I have always enjoyed saying "atlatl".
One more aspect of Indo Greek culture that many may not know en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliodorus_pillar
Jesus is *fully God* and He died for the sins of all mankind, so that _everyone who believes in Him and amends their life can be saved._ The Holy Roman Catholic Church is the Church which He founded, and it has primacy over the entire world. You should join.
What books would you recommend that compare Zoroastrianism and Hinduism, the Avesta with the Rig Veda?
Indo-Greek cultural syncretism is so underrated
yes
Because western academia & the West does not want to admit that Greek & Roman thought, the font of their divine civilisation, was inspired heavily by ancient India. Same with all the Egyptian influence culture.
I live that food
One Bhuna Gyros please.
Indeed
It should be noted that it wasn't just Alexander that brought Hellenism to the region. There were already Greek populations there that had been deported by the Persians.
Aye, they were called Yavanas.
The name for Greece was copied from the Persians, who called all of Greece Yunan. Essentially the same word as Ionia.
This is important to understand, that Greeks from the rebellion in western Anatolia were resettled across the Persian Empire as punishment for treason.
It's also hilarious to think that Alexander and his army would have stumbled on a random Greek settlement on what must have felt like the edge of the world to them.
@@gododoof I think they had knowledge of that and the regime of Alexander has conquered the persians which was the main enemy for Alexander during this time. Imagine being in this position and knowing you have people speaking greek in the other end of the enemies empire which is already 2 foot in the door in your empire. It was ressentment and vengeance driving history once again.
People tend to underestimate how connected the greek world was with the iranic/persian world. Athens even had scythic policemen at some point.
The celts were much more foreign to the Greeks.
Greek influence increased under Xerxes I, after the descendants of Greek priests who had once lived near Didyma (western Asia Minor) were forcibly relocated in Bactria,[11] and later on with other exiled Greeks, most of them prisoners of war. Greeks communities and language were already common in the area by the time that Alexander the Great conquered Bactria in 328 BC.[12]
I’m glad you did this video! I recently got into and now practice Buddhism (Theravada school). - Pakistani Buddhist 🇵🇰☸️
Why convert to the religion of your jahil ancestors? You do not understand the difficulties they faced just to become Muslims and you spit on their legacy.
Brother,sadhu sadhu sadhu
Theravada the path of elder arhants is the path to Nirvana , stay firm in faith , with the Power of buddha dhamma and sangha i transfer loving kindness to you and your family members, do merits and have faith in noble triple gems
YOU EXIST??????!!!!❤❤❤❤
@@debarghyaroy9948I converted sorry for the misleading comment.
@@jhggcfdr3467converted? That even better!
Hi! I'm a Buddhist from sri lanka and we have heard the story of king Menander or Milinda as he is called in our stories and his debates with the Fully enlightend monk(Arahanth) called Nagasena. It is taught in our stories that after 500 sessions of these debates with Arahanth Nagasena king Menander abdicated and gave his crown to his eldest son and Ordained as a monk himself, and later attained spiritual Enlightnment (Arahanthship). and he passed away near a war camp many years later in Ghandhar (modern day Kandahar) and his grandson who was the king at the time (his son passed away due to an accident) burned his body in a ceremonial fire and disributed his relics and built 1000 stupas in every major town in his kingdom honoring him
Good to see you in comments. Thanks
@@christsavesreadromans1096what, bro seriously 😂, why are you here, you can preach everywhere but here ,we discuss about history and philosophy, you can go other religion sites
@@christsavesreadromans1096
I'm not sure if this is a bot or just someone who can't read the room. We're here to widen our view of the world, not here to tunnel vision into the realm of Christianity.
@@christsavesreadromans1096 Ramen
@@christsavesreadromans1096 Parasitic cultist.
This is one of my FAVOURITE periods in all of human history. It's so important that more people learn about the ancient cultural connections between East and West, thank you so much for making this video.
Unfortunately, most of the evidence has been destroyed or suppressed.
@@user-84-rg9-8n2what? I thought this was pretty common knowledge. I was taught about Alexander the Great in middleschool. Where is it supressed?
@@vko7059 nowhere, he is just making stuff up
@@vko7059 there was alot more to the story than merely Alexander and his expedition. Like greco-indo-bactrian king named Kanishk Kushan the surge of sense of enlightenment, budhhism and philosophy in his era and many more people like him during the era. But due to various reasons like one of it is spread of monotheistic faith in the region few centuries earlier which viewed Buddhism as a pantheist or atheist faith and more importantly their rival led to the anhillation of their sanctuaries and all the artifacts you could call as evidence. What you know as common knowledge is only the 1% of what there actually the history was .
Obviously not as popular as Alexander
its better when you realise that the east-west dichotomy is a modern invention and greece was and has always been a ''near east'' culture and nation when it comes to identity.
Fun fact central Asia had a massive Greek population centuries before Alexandre got there. They were Ionians (Anatolian) and other Greek soldiers/people who were defeated and expelled to a location far from their home land.
Yeah my ancestors lived with these Greeks before we fled to India
@unknownmaster5078 may I know more about your ancestors?
@@IndianArma Kambojas
@@unknownmaster5078
99% southeast asians are nothing to do with india in term of race(tribe).
@@TENGRI-101convenient philosophy busted by recent DNA sampling of archaeological sites
Original Buddhism was against the making of icons of the Buddha. Early Buddhist art used either a footprint or symbols like the dharma chakara to represent Buddha. The earliest depictions of Buddha came from Greek kingdoms within India.
While it’s true that there are no surging stone images of the Buddha before then, the idea that they were “against” it is highly debated. Susana Huntington in particular has contested that there was a prohibition on depicting the Buddha. It’s worth reading up on, and a RFB episode on aniconism generally would be really interesting.
@@mboatrightED300 Yeah that would be a great vid. It's interesting that the idea (aniconism) has popped up multiple times.
I guess it is an easy way to rareify the deity-- as well as control of the deity-- isn't it?
A blanket ban makes it harder for individual worshipers to introduce personal alterations that might not gel with official dogma-- nipping in the bud certain ideas that might catch on against priestly wishes 🤔
@@AnotherCraig But Buddha is not a deity. That's why early Buddhism would be against statues, because you're not supposed to worship Buddha.
@@elverdaderojavier Right, and this brings up an interesting question: Could it have been the Greeks who introduced the idea of Buddha as a deity?
@@elverdaderojavier Buddhas are better than deities in Buddhism, and a better object of veneration. Even if they didn't veneration images, the Buddha's relics - teeth and bones left over after his cremation - were the center part of all early Buddhist stupas.stupa. and if there was a prohibition on images, it more likely had to do with the Buddha transcending human form, not the modernist idea that the Buddha was "just a teacher."
One of the weirdest crossovers I have ever seen - that statue of the Buddha together with a nude statue of Heracles (Hercules). It feels absolutely like a Marvel-American Pie crossover of sorts. XD
Haha😂
Or like nolan and tarantino
Look, the Buddha being real was kinda getting tired of his usual imaginary friends from the Hindu pantheon.
He got some new buddies from the Greek pantheon.
Also, I'm kinda in love with Gandhara school. Buddha often looks like he's wearing a tunic made of water. Also, the Greek tunic + pyjamas that Buddha is wearing kinda still worn today. It's called a Pathani in Afghanistan.
It gets crazier the later you go! At Tapa Shotor there's a whole greeco-indian pantheon there surrounding the buddha. Hercules, Tyche, etc surrounded him. I really love the detail they added into the sculptures too.
Not as strange as you think, Buddhism has a tradition of converting other deities to be their protector, usually it's Hinduism but in China it's normal for some deities or saints/holy figures to be both Buddhist and taoist figures, and in many cases the deities are the devil himself or the great beast that got enlightened by Budda/Buddhist monk and become the protector, naga in southeast asia is prime example, even it came from india but SEA's great snake=naga is main protector of the temples and has many legend dated back to age before Buddhism.
Thank you so much for making a video on this topic! I'm a practicing Buddhist, training to become a monk, and when I first found out about Grecco-Buddhism, I found myself enthralled by it. The most fascinating thing was that the very first images of the Buddha were carved by these artists. Amazing and inspiring stuff for a Buddhist from the 'West' seeing the original "Western" Buddhists. Goes to show the Universality of these ancient traditions. 🙏
After watching this I am left wondering about the relationship of the therapeutae near Alexandria and the theravadins of India.
So the biggest, lasting Greek influence in Asia was not Turkey and Syria, but Korea and Japan.
Whast? Buddhism is Indian@@user-84-rg9-8n2
@@user-84-rg9-8n2 They're probably behind India, Bhutan, Nepal and China, but yes. You can see the remnants of this influence in East Asia to this day while in Turkey and Syria you won't find a single trace of it.
@@user-84-rg9-8n2 What has any of this got to do with Korea and Japan? Gandhara was in ancient India (modern western Pakistan and eastern Afghanistan).
greco buddhism, the indo-greeks, and kushan empire is probably my favorite topics in history. The art especially is amazing. Probably one of the most beautiful budhas sculpted.
The Seleucid Empire & all of the cultural & religious fusion it brought about is one of my favorite subjects in history.
That empire help push the Full Roman Empire to collapse into the Eastern Roman Empire.
I am a Sri lankan Sinhalese Buddhist who practice Theravada buddhism. We often come up with the debate of Yonaka king Mirendo(Milinda) vs Arahanth Nagasena. The famous Milinda prashna...Almost it contains all types of philosophical-radical questions that could be asked by an intelligent person on buddhism. Love your videos and you have done the research at your best rather than telling stories...
I recently converted to Buddhism and I have studied that "singhalese" people consider Buddhism as their blood and they respect /protect it a lot❤ you deserve respect ❤ also please protect Buddhism in your country
"It contains all types of philosophical - radical questions."
Establishments censored and sorta removed it from main stream.
Now they believe Buddha have sorta super power.
I got the chance to visit the statue shown in 1:35 in the museum in Kolkata and i must say, up close you can just say by looking that Gandhara art is unique in the way indian and european styles are combined, something we won't see for millennia after that
I’ve always felt there’s a strong Buddhist sensibility in the Gospel of Thomas.
People now a days don’t realize how far reaching the Buddhist religion was.
Totally new concept to me, and totally fascinating. Had to watch right away. Glad I'm subscribed.
Me too.
I had always assumed that the gymnosophists were the tradition we now call Jain but that kind of asceticism was probably not exclusive to Jain, especially when you consider how the fluid and complex Indian religious history. And I had also assumed that the sages the Buddha debated with were Jain or some similar preceding tradition. Have you done a Jain video?
Not yet, but I’m working on one currently.
@@ReligionForBreakfasti can't wait for that one. Jainism is very interesting. In some of my stories, the ideas the Jains put forth are part of the overall themes and lore
@@ReligionForBreakfast fantastic video as usual
I also have assumed the gymnosophists were Jain because of the nakedness thing, but it could be that not all of them were Jain but the name gymnosophist got used to refer to all of them. As for those whom the Buddha debated, some were certainly Jain, but not all were. Usually the relevant sources specify actually what community the interlocutor was from. Jains appear often, but so do Cārvākas, Brahmins of various religious persuasions, etc. But Jainism was evidently very popular in central and eastern India at the Buddha's time.
@@christsavesreadromans1096 have you taken your medication this morning?
The Buddha sculptures in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India have very Greek looking faces.
It is such a shame Buddhist heritage in Pakistan and Afghanistan are now lost forever.
@@starrynight43451those regions were converted to Islam via similar tactics the Roman Catholic Church used to convert Polish and Baltic regions’ people into Christians.
@@Dave102693What is now Afghanistan and Pakistan seen endless wars as the Persians, Arabs and Turks and Mongols tried to capture India's fertile lands.
This reminded me of a theory I once saw about how the Therapeutae was possibly influenced by Buddhist traditions. Really makes me feel like everything is more interconnected than we think sometimes.
Therapeutae = Theravada?
@@anattasunnata3498 That was part of the theory I saw, that therapeutae was possibly a Greek attempt at pronouncing theravada.
@@serisaurusrex Thats Latin, Θεραπευταί is Greek
Apparently, Jesus would have come into contact with the Therapeutae in Egypt & possibly influenced. Perhaps the second coming was about reincarnation & his last birth before becoming full enlightened as Metteyya prophesied by the Buddha?🙏
@@serisaurusrex doubly intriguing that is was a jewish monastic sect
Having a philosopher in battle is beyond valuable for the perspectives to be given could be immense. Philosophy is not only about existence. You can philosophize about almost anything including war.
Witness the Bhagavad Gita.
If you are reflective thinking being, then you are doing philosophy by default
That sounds good on paper, but how effective is it actually in practice? Without actual experience in war, philosophizing about war strategies is just armchair thinking. It's the equivalent of Redditors arguing essays about topics they have no credibility in.
@@TactlessGuy All I need to say is Sun tsu. Have a good day
@@IIIC3YLOCO Thanks for proving my point. Sun Tzu was a successful military general long before he ever wrote the Art of War.
One wonders how the early Greeks would have responded to the idea that absolutely anyone can be a Buddha and that a Buddha is a teacher of gods and men alike. In Greek mythology humans can NEVER reach the divine through their own effort, and anyone who fancied himself the equal of the gods would quickly face their wrath. But in Buddhism we're all already in a sense divine -- we all possess the Buddha Nature -- it being merely a question of bringing this Buddha Nature to full fruition. The Olympian gods would have regarded all this as an affront to their exalted status. Well, maybe some of the Greeks who were attracted to Buddhism thought: "To Hell with the Olympian gods." :P
Or were those gods the same ? Aliens
You forget that Greeks also had different mystery schools or cults. The ideas about Gods as you describe were more worldy and lay in understanding. Remember that Socrates communicated with his daimon, an inborn spirit, and was accused of corrupting the young with impiety. So there has always been a split between esoteric and exoteric. In other words it was understood by early Greeks that spiritual knowledge was to be sought and developed through Theoria (the word philosophy was a later development).
If you see these gods through the books of Buddhism, they are likely beings in the heavenly realm bound by sense pleasures. So a lower level of gods who still haven't attained the meditative absorptions, and the Jhanas and probably never will.
@@gideonros2705 I'm not really sure how much similarity there is between Buddhism and the mystery schools. From what I read, some of those schools/cults threatened those who revealed their secrets with the death penalty. I can't imagine the Buddha ever doing that sort of thing; his teachings were open to anyone who wished to learn. Plato likewise thought that only certain children could and should be given the sort of education that would make them 'Guardians' when they grew up, and these children had to be specially hand-picked. Not everyone could be a 'Guardian'. By contrast, anyone can be a Buddha.
Very early Greeks not respond well by Alexanders time Greek thinking in Philosophy welcomed all sort of ideas including this Buddhist idea. This video shows they liked Buddhist ideas. They at times edged close to atheism even with some philosophies in other case. What we think of classical Greece most often is then not very devoted at all. Greeks if they had the world view your thinking of the Philosophers in many cases would have been killed for not following the religious line.
Plus Buddhism recognizes Greek Like Gods that humans can't become and from what I have read sort of pities them as those Gods would find it very hard to reach enlightenment.
I have never seen anything in Buddhism desiring the type of Divine that Greek Gods have. Instead Buddhism seeking what is not of the world and above it.
This makes so much sense, given how close the two civilizations were to each other
Close?
In antiquity, I would agree
Buddhism is Good for Every Walks of life.
Thomas McEvilley's monumental text, 'The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies' is a great reference to this terrific topic on how the so-called "Western thought" was shaped significantly by Yogic (Hindu) and Buddhist philosophies. The text also has a fascinating collection of photos on syncretic art and sculpture.
The more I learn of history the more confidence I feel about my slow life's trajectory toward Buddhism. You see the wisdom of the Buddha emerge all over the world as tiny little acknowledgements of even singular monks wandering the world.
Even in Christianity, you see the same wisdom expressed by Jesus. The most brilliant people who ever lived find it over and over again. Of course I'm not arrogant enough to believe that Buddhism is the only way through life or the only valid faith - every faith or philosophy, so long as it doesn't call for the extinction of others, had it's place in the world. And I think that understanding is directly expressed by Buddhism.
I don't know, there's just something beautiful about both the simplicity and complexity of the Buddha's message that I think can enrich the life of anyone
One of the most Buddhist verses from any scripture I've ever read is found in Ecclesiastes, Ch1, v.8: "All things are wearisome; more than one can express; the eye is not satisfied with seeing, or the ear filled with hearing."
The Buddha is one of my favourite religious figures, the best thing about him is that he can change his mind.
He originally said that only men could be Buddhist monks, but later on somebody convinced him that women should be allowed too.
The Buddha was presented with a logical argument and he realised that he was wrong, so he changed his teaching
To me that is a lot wiser than anyone claiming to speak on behalf of infallible gods
@@vortexlegend101 Well, Siddharth's worldview of the "real world" was turned on it head when he left the luxuries of palace life for the first time.
This is incredibly accurate to my experience too. Also, the more I learn about practical Christianity, like prayer, worship and good deeds, the more I feel like it’s just like meditation and good in Buddhism. It feels like the Holy Spirit can be felt in just the same way that practitioners feel at one with the universe or dissolve the self. These are different terms, to be sure, but language describing an experience that doesn’t need to be at odds.
I find Buddhism and Sikhism both fascinating. They are both influencing my thinking these days.
Honestly I've been very curious about this topic for years, I'm so happy you made a video.
Tub
You can find Greco Buddhist stuff all over north west Pakistan. I've had the good fortune of being there too, to see Greek and Indic art/culture/religion intersecting in such seemless ways really make you think differently about the modern world and all it's rigid ideas of race and nation states.
This is one of my favourite historical crossovers. I had read that some historians believe Nagarjuna actually learned his skeptical ideas from the Greeks, which is why he claimed to have been taught his ideas by snakes (naga) to hide the fact that they came from foreigners. Of course, the Greeks also likely learned these ideas from Indians, but no one knows for sure.
There is a tradition that claims the Mahayana Sutras were hidden in the realm of the nagas and later exposed to Nagarjuna when the world was ready for them. The realm of the nagas is of course patala: the underworld. This could suggest that Mahayana Buddhism went into hiding at an early point in its history, which may be further evidenced from a Buddhist point of view since the Lotus Sutra itself says the Dharma will be protected by the numerous bodhisattvas who dwell in space beneath the earth.
Do you recall which historians? I would think it would be very odd for Nagarjuna to develop Madhyamaka on the basis of Greek ideas that would happen to accord with the negation of the catuskoti so clearly and consistently present through the suttas, to the point of Nagarjuna arguing, to paraphrase Jan Westerhoff, that his opponents are *insufficiently* Buddhist. Greek influence on Sarvastivadins, though, I could maybe see.
Nagarjuna was from South of the India, modern Telangana state,
Where there was not even a sea route from Romans.
Greek influence mainly could be seen in Northwestern part.
Besides Nagarjuna was not unique in that field, there had been many scholars and philosophers, even before Buddha.
India was hotspot of many ideas and philosophies of different traditions, many of Buddhist ideas were influenced by Vedic, Tantrik, Jains, and Ajivikas.
Ignoring them will be just idiocy.
@@alexwebb7020 Thomas McEvilly and Matthew Neale are examples. It is known that Greek texts were imported into India. The hypothesis is that Nagarjuna was inspired by Pyrrhonist texts because so many Pyrrhonist arguments that had previously not appeared in Indian philosophy were introduced into Indian philosophy all at once by Nagarjuna.
@@douglasbates236 The Charvaka movement Formed in 800 bce
Indo greek kingdom, let's go!
Kushans were cooler
(I'm biased with good reason)
@@rustomkanishka Okay Kanishka!
@@rustomkanishkayour name gives us the clue😂
Στρατηγός reporting for duty :)
I love seeing how two cultures can influence one another
oh yes, spear is popularly known as the great weapon for ancient warfare. it's easy to construct and replace when broken, it's pretty effective for long range and formation battles, and it's easy to learn for soldiers
It is without a doubt the greatest weapon of all time. The lance and pike were used well into the age of gunpowder
Pointy stick is a classic.
Even Neanderthals would agree. The pointy stick changed everything for the hairless bipeds!
@@loganhonors4154 Rifle Bayonets are technically Pikes
The hellenistic Jewish philosopher Philo or Alexandria mentions an ascetic group living in the desert called the Therapeutae. There are scholars who speculate that the word Therapeutae may be a Hellenistic corruption of the word Theravada.
it was the opposite
the word comes from the greek word θεραπευω θεοσ+υπηρετω god +serve in greek
that expanded through greeks in the east.
you can realise easy that is a greek word
and not Indian etc.
Greek Buddhists...now thats something that was beyond my imagination
on some level, when you first learn about this kind of thing, this kind of phenomenon in history, you are kinda shocked that people would just convert to another religion all because they lived nearby to that religion. converts who genuinely were swayed to the other's belief only account for so many. but then the more you think about it, the more you realize that cultural contact also means marriages. when you see things about "greeks who converted to buddhism", im sure that happened to a degree, but i think a huge driving force of that must have been the children of greeks and buddhists, who synthesized both of their cultural heritages. its easy to forget that lines are almost never rigid. even if these started as two distinct groups of people, given enough time, of course a sizeable mixed-ethnicity population would emerge. and there's something really kinda beautiful about that, you know? cultural exchange often happens by force, with one culture dominating another and outlawing their former practices and making the people follow the conqueror's practices. but i think cultures honestly resist that pressure just as strongly, and preserve whatever they can out of sheer spite and human willpower, and we see that constantly. i think cultural adoption happens so so so so so much more via genuine friendship and marriage and kids who are born to both cultures and grow up without thinking of them as as separate as their ancestors did. you can only force so many people to convert via violence. people are much more willing to adopt a new religion or synthesize two if one is the religion of their father and the other of their mother
also it does help that both greek and sanskrit are indo-european lol. these are more like two cousins than two strangers. buddhism isnt the same as hinduism of course, and hinduism is a closer analog and probably direct relative of the greek pantheon and mythology, but nevertheless they do still share a lot of ideas about things.
While I agree that is part of it, I think that the ancient Greek approach to religion, which is known to have been very syncretic and open compared to the Abrahamic religions, which are closed and very concerned with things such as heresy and apostasy, played a factor as well. Practitioners of open religions are much more, uh, open to other perspectives.
Hinduism as we understand it today didn’t exist at this time. Buddhism, and Jainism, generally accepted the pantheon given in the Vedas, which is the earliest literature that mentions most of these deities. Buddhism went further and interacted with local spirits like Hariti and the myriad yakshas, etc.
Heresy certainly exists in Buddhism as evidenced by the Buddha’s interactions with other religious leaders, but the attitude is more accommodating than destructive. An example of this is how Buddhists try to convert gods of other cultures rather than do away with them.
@@invokingvajras @Chk. books - Buddhists & it's religious others, The Snake and the Mongoose The Emergence of Identity in Early Indian Religion
Search works of scholars like - Julia shaw, Osmund Bopearachchi etc.
Read paper - The spaces of religion: a view from South Asia★
Then ask this question - Can we apply modern categories in the past ?
Best wishes.
Thank you Ian Hecox for your video essay on Bactrian Greek Buddhist syncretism. Smosh never fails!
🤣😭💀
This is fascinating. I always thought Greek philosophy was sorely lacking in non-dualism (except in some pre-Socratic fragments) and compassion, so Buddhism was just what the doctor ordered.
As a philosophy student, this was mindblowingly interesting. Thank you for your awesome work!
I saw an ancient buddhist statue/carving when visiting my home town in north Pakistan.
what town would that be?
@@laksh_ayy there were 2 mansehra- where ashoka left his rock and haripur where there are buddhist carvings.
@@_.belladonna_ Just looked it up, its in hazara, near Kashmir. I will surely learn more about Ashokan edicts there. That looks a really lovely place, but sadly I won't be able to visit. Thanks though.
@@laksh_ayy yep, hazara is a region in kpk it just borders kashmir and gilgit.
@@_.belladonna_ sorry for being nosy, but do you have any background in History? And you mentioned these two places as your hometown, do you not live in Pakistan anymore?
I'm an Anthropology major who focused on Archaeology and this is brand new information to me! Really interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing!
The gymnosophists are assumed to be monks from the Jain religion by some historians. It does have some overlapping concepts with Buddhism though, and by no means does it undermine the arguments made in this video. Great video!
Your offerings keep getting better and better. Thank-you!
Gandhara(Indian) and Bactria(Iranian) are extremely fascinating regions and people.
Genuinely sucks that they’re mostly gone, but at least we know the history part 😅
Gandhara has a lot of sites that are protected Pakistan is big on it heritage gandhara sites are apart of unesko
@@supremercommonder applauds to Pakistan for that, sadly some buildings there were destroyed by some extreme it’s due to its “Idolatry”.
Sad how beautiful history can be destroyed by ugly zealotry.
@@f34rbeast32 most of them aren't destroyed they're housed in peshawar in a museum or museums abroad (mostly from European countries such as england) buy them and host them.
You budhhist from Pakistan..?@@_.belladonna_
Ashoka already became Buddhist before the legendary post-war origin story used as propaganda. This is fairly well accepted at this point. And he still did a lot of violence post-this. I know this is a religion video, but the history needs to be accurate.
Pyrrho's reformed ideology is also similar to the Ajivika school and early Digambara Jainism.
At the Freer Gallery on the National Mall in Washington DC, there was a tablet called “All People’s Praising Buddha” on display for years. It was created during the Hellenistic Period after the conquests of Alexander, featuring 15-20 of carved lines, each line depicting a people from a different culture “praising Buddha” with with each individual displaying their hands gesturing their practice of Buddhism.
The tablet started from East to west, the top lines depicting clothing and culture from the farthest known regions to the east. Their dress was more similar to what would appear to come from Korea/Japan, as opposed to the more Qin depiction of Chinese adherents to Buddha featured a few lines down. Line by line, it displayed unique dress and culture. Towards the mid bottom, it displayed clearly Greek, Thracian, Roman (with Togas!), then clearly people from Gaul, and Celtic Iberian!
I’d known that Buddhism spread and flourished during the Hellenistic period, but not to the extent of it spreading to Rome, Gaul, and Iberia! It was an incredible work to survive, eyes opening, however, sadly, it hasn’t been on display for awhile…
one of the most fascinating things in ancient history is the Greek India connection.
yet I heard nothing about it until youtube.
Did you not read about Alexander and Chandragupta?
I was actually telling my partner all about Buddhism and its interaction with greek religion before this came out.
Great video! I wonder which Buddhist traditions were principally circulating in the Indo-Greek Kingdoms. I know the Sarvāstivādins were later very popular in that region, as were certain Mahāyāna Sūtra circulations - Seishi Karashima discovered some textual evidence from the Prākṛt core of some of the Pure Land Sūtras that the versions we had today came from Gāndharī recensions, and of course there's even surviving fragments of a Gāndharī language manuscript of the 8000 Line Perfection of Wisdom Sūtra. So perhaps some antecedents of those traditions were vibrant there even during the Indo-Greek period? It would be interesting if the Indo-Greek archeological evidence supplies any clues as to _which_ Buddhists were active in converting Greeks.
I can't speak about religion, but the Indo Greeks definitely were the first to depict the Buddha in sculpture. Without them, we wouldn't have such a rich tradition.
The gandhara school is arguably one of the most beautiful schools of art in the subcontinent.
They do depict the Buddha wearing a Greek style tunic and pyjamas, and one can see similarities in the modern Afghan dress called the Pathani.
@@rustomkanishka I'm not sure if it's actually true that they were the first, because there are Buddhist examples of artistic iconography in the Mathuran tradition of ancient Indian art that are from a similar time period as Indo-Greek art, right? I know the Greek icon theory is pretty popular but I am not sure the evidence really is that strong given that there's a near contemporaneous tradition centered further east.
But in any case, visual iconography in Indian art in general doesn't actually appear until relatively late in the archeological record. So I've wondered whether maybe the idea of making icons for specific religious figures in general didn't become popular until foreign influence made it more popular. AFAIK no Indian writers in any religion mention artistic depictions of deities until Pāṇini and Patañjali, and the oldest depictions of Indian deities are like...the Tikla rock paintings probably? So basically until a few centuries BCE, there isn't Even evidence of Hindus and Jains iconographically depicting their deities. Makes me think the turn towards religious personal iconography might have happened for Indian art as a general movement altogether, rather than individually in each religion.
One of them is Dharmaguptaka. Their vinaya is the same as Theravada's plus some rules about stupa(allegedly for the greek who dont know about stupa). It is said that Dharmaguptaka spreads wide, that it is pioneer in new area, others follow.
In Tang China, a Chinese monk criticize many version of Vinaya used by Sangha in Tang empire, then Dharmaguptaka vinaya chosen to be the vinaya that is used in Tang empire by emperor edict
I think there are many other schools according to what I read
I've read many of the place and proper names of that time, but haven't heard them spoken very often. Thank you for helping me out on that, and with the topics you select for videos as well!
King Menander sounds like an absolutely fascinating historical figure! Right in the harmonious mix of these ancient cultures. I truly have learned something new and wondrous today
The name meander was turned to Milinda or just Milind in many Indian languages and is very much a popular name for boys today.
Funnily enough one of my closest friends is named that but just for fun sometimes we call him Basellius Menander or Menander Rex and he screws with me by calling me by my namesake's title, Basellius Baselion, literally king of kings.
In that book, Nagasena addresses what we in the west call "the ship of Theseus" the thought experiment where, if you replace all the parts of a ship over time... is it still the same ship? In Mahayana Buddhism it's called "Nagasena's Chariot." Another interesting connection between cultures
To this day, the Hindu male name Milind (derived from Menander) is popular in India. He must have been a pretty popular ruler plus influential in Indian history to be remembered 2500 years later. Compare that with how many Hindu men are named George or Akbar, despite those foreign rulers having been around far more recently (within the last 500 years).
Milind is a very common name all over India. Siddharth, Ashok and Kanishk are also popular.
This is my favorite channel on UA-cam and has been for some time now. Thank you for your uploads and knowledge
This is very rich in detail-thank you for putting it together! I’m a practicing Chan Buddhist under the Mahayana tradition for over 13 years now. The word “Dharma” (when capitalized) refers to the Buddhas teachings themselves. When (in lowercase “dharma”) it’s referring to the semantic meaning of phenomena (used in ancient India).
In D&D, I play essentially an artorian knight with heavy greek, buddhist, and wuxia themes so it's pretty great to see that buddhist greeks were actually a real thing
do you mean as in Arthur, Dark Souls Artorious, or something else?
@@totodacatyes
Yes Man, Yes I have the exact same experience while playing the whole Game series
@@totodacatLoved all of them too Elden rings Skyrim Demon souls dark souls Bloodborne were and still Goated
Best UA-cam recommendation I've gotten in a long while
Slight correction: The original Manta was in Pali not Sanskrit. Thanks 🙂
In thailand be call that language “Pali sanskrit” and it’s the root language for thai
Are you telling me we messed up the name of our root language for centuries?? 😶
@@josephhesse2634 You can’t call thai mandarin same language.
@@Curiosity1220 why are you talking about mandarin?
@@josephhesse2634 because you said Pali Sanskrit as if they are same.
@@Curiosity1220 you saying pali sanskrit is mandarin?
I've just finished reviewing this topic in my buddhist art history class, this stuff was so surprising when I learned about it. The mixing of such iconically greek motifs applied to so distinctively buddhist works in a myriad of sculptures is nothing short of awesome.
Such an amazing insight at Greek-India relationship at that period through Buddhism. Nice work man! Love it.
I love this period. It just undermines the absolutist claims of later religious movements in neighbouring regions.
I had already read about this topic but this video gives us a much more appealing format plus more updated info on this interesting subject for anyone who likes Indo-European studies - or ancient history, for that matter.
Thank you so much, I've given the due thumbs-up and subscribed to your channel.😊
Abigail Thorn mentioned! What a treat it would be if two of my favorite UA-camrs collab in the future. A boy can only dream.
Great video! I've always been fascinated by Greco-Bactrian history.
As an Indian I think Dharma in Ashoka's context held a more generic meaning rather than Buddhism specifically. While it is true that he became a Buddhist the majority of his subjects likely still followed Hindu traditions. So when he said that Dharma was being practiced everywhere I think it meant the moral and philosophical ethos of the Indian subcontinent in general rather than Buddhism specifically. Of course this is just my interpretation and I could be wrong. But this is what I think.
This was absolutely amazing, mate!
You say 6:31 "the concept of shunyata or emptiness meaning that all phenomena are devoid or empty of intrinsic existence" However, according to Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh, this is a rather Western translation.
'Sunyata' means 'not having a separate existence' or 'empty of a separate self'. For example. a plant cannot exist without air, water, soil, minerals etc. As such, although we see what looks like a plant with a separate existence, this is not so - the plant is not separate from the air/water etc.
This explanation is very practical, not the esoteric idea that the translation 'emptiness' would imply.
Really interesting clarification of syncretization! It's way more wholesome when you frame it that way.
Loved this no nonsense take on the Greco Buddhism. 🙂
The gymnosophists were most probably wandering sects of "Aghoris" or "Nath Yogis", both are very ancient indian orders that deal with principles of detachment and asceticism. There are many local folklores detailing the interactions that Alexander had with these sects.
Most famously, a wandering indian saint who joined Alexander's entourage as per the direction of his guru was called Kalanos, who after spending some time with Alexander, told him that his time on earth has come to an end and asked the king's permission for samadhi or death by self immolation. Although Alexander and his aides begged kalanos to not go forward with this, Alexander finally allowed him to carry out his final wish.
By now, Alexander had grown close to Kalanos and viewed him as a teacher and an enlightened soul, on his final night, as if to console Alexander, Kalanos predicted that he'll meet Alexander again after one year from now in the City of Babylon.
Legend has it that in his bouts of delirium during his final day, Alexander shouted "Alas, my friend, you came to meet me in Babylon."
P.S: Like any folklore or legend, I'm sure that some of the details have been exaggerated and embellished, but it's a cool story nonetheless.
Nah man they were most probably Jain of digambara sect who profess not wearing even single clothes eat vegetarian food and practice non violence which is what ancient Greek historians describe about the gymnosophists of India.
Jainism was very popular in ancient India as even king Chandragupta Maurya later became Jain monk and starved himself to death to attain moksha.
I love you Buddhism videos! Keep up the good work man!
One thing I find interesting is that before Greek influence, Buddhist art did not contain images of people, only empty thrones and bhodi leaves
An absolutely fascinating video… Thanks for the upload.
I would agree that the style of the statues is indeed “Greco-Roman”. Not because a Greek had to have built them, but because the STYLE of the statue is indeed influenced by Greek art.
I think he spoke to jain monks since they were described as not wearing anything... Since jain monks until today are known for not wearing anything. And since jainism and buddhism have similar philosophys.
This video is truly awesome! Thank you for sharing this joy with everyone
I featured the 'square' style of the Greco-Bactrian alphabet on a video I made about the recently deciphered Kushan script, as this was the predominant variant for inscriptions which was what I was focusing on. So it was fascinating to see the cursive style of the Greco-Bactrian alphabet, which I had only seen on manuscripts, on a stone surface at the beginning of this video.
As I mentioned in that video, there were already Greek communities in Central Asia before Alexander the Great as populations had been deported there during the Achaemenid Persian Empire. Alexander was reportedly surprised to discover these Greek communities so far east during his conquests.
The Romans first encountered my country, Sri Lanka, during the time of Emperor Claudius, and they called it Taprobane. This is recorded even by Pliny the Younger. According to historians at the time, they were intrigued by a Buddhism, a religion which didn’t have any gods at the core. They were also apparently flabbergasted to how a society could function without slaves 😄
fascinating! could you give some sources for me to read regarding that topic?
The name Taprobane was already there used by the Greeks for Sri Lanka so I assume the Romans just continued the use of the term... And in archaeological surveys we see that the trade between the Indian subcontinent and the Mediterranean was also there even after the conquest of the last Hellenistic kingdoms of the area by the other Hellenistic kingdom, the Ptolemies of Egypt which they made a very important port in the Red Sea coast (called Berenice)... So when the Romans conquered Ptolemaic Egypt they came to continue this trade with the Indin subcontinent.... But I assume the actual trade networks and people remained the same just under new (Roman) supervision.
@@vanmars5718 While Europeans had heard reports of the island, the first actual encounter was with a Roman ship that was blown off course. Consequently, envoys were sent to the court of Claudius, which was recorded by Roman historians including Pliny the Elder. While direct trade with Europe existed for a while, especially as part of the Silk Route, this died down later, where it went through Indian and Arabian traders. After a period of no contact, the next encounter was with the Portuguese. Also, all the countries in South Asia aren’t interchangeable…continued trade with India doesn’t mean it happened with Sri Lanka
@10:30 I believe her (Olga Kubica) name is pronounced as Kubitsa and not Kubika
This was absolutely fascinating! Never considered the potential for overlap between these two traditions, thankyou!
Wow, absolutely fascinating subject!
This is the type of IRL lore I live for. Thank you for consistently making content that is not only informative but also just straight up cool to learn about.
Greeks having an influence on Buddhism in the east and Christianity in the west will never not boggle my mind
They both impacted and got enriched. Stoicism was heavily influenced by Buddhism.
In actuality, it was the Greeks who got heavily Indianised and were the main proponents of many Indian ideas to the west.
They're both directly related. Gnostic ideas (proto Christian) came from Buddhism through Hellenism.
I grew up Christian and knew of Hinduism. When I learned about Buddhism, I found a lot of the teachings of Jesus so similar to the Buddha. I felt certain that Christianity had to have been influenced by Buddhism because much of it was so different from the local belief systems.
@@uncleelias Considering how the old testament God is portrayed differently from the God in the new testament , it could be reasoned that proto Christianity has Buddhist influences based on your statement.
What a wonderful & illuminating video.
I love how you're talking about this! This period of history is very interesting, and the Greeks that have influenced the Indians and vice versa will always one of my favourite historical tidbits!
There is a little known work of fiction where Jesus was simply trying to teach Buddhism but was misunderstood.
I saw that movie!!
Man from Earth? Obviously they take it way further, but Buddhism is also thrown in.
is it perhaps Manichaeism?
It’s hilarious in my opinion because a virgin birth is a polemic against the fathers of the Nephilim.
Melchizedek, the human, led an army of angels in 11q13 Dead Sea Scrolls, as if he was the deity himself.
It’s pretty clear Jesus was Jewish.
Syncretism 是指 本地垂蹟 嗎？
Please explore more of the indo-greek relations and also the syncretism between greek and Hinduism.
Hinduism is not that old.. they claims they are old but they dont have any evidence to support their hypothesis their oldest manuscript of Ved (their main religious book) is from 14th century AD so i don't think Hinduism is too old
@@All.RoundShortsI know you are madarasa student...
@@ashishmoudgil972 what is the obsession with Muslim.. FIY i m ex Hindu and if you think i m wrong then prove it right here show me a single manuscript or archeological evidence that prove Hinduism is the older then Jesus even then Muslim to compare with Buddhism and Greek is not your cup of tea
@@All.RoundShortsare you dumb? You don't know one of the indo-greek king was Hindu and there's a coin of Krishna dating back to 250BC, do some research before commenting
@@All.RoundShortsare you dumb? One of the indo-greek king was Hindu and we also have a coin of Krishna and Balram dating back to 250BC, do some research before commenting.
This is fascinating, and all very new to me! Thank you for covering this topic!
Okay this is going on my religion playlist great job
the gymnosophists could be any number of the early ascetic groups.. likely several different ones... even if we limit it to sramana groups, jain and ajivika are pretty valid conclusions.
And some Schools of Vedism Vedic Traditions and Hinduism who are inclosed with Shramana Dharma Sharman Culture too
Gandhara! Thank you so much, I've been a fan of this time and area for years!
My first hint is the Hellenistic/Hellenic Buddhist iconography! And yet this episode is astounding in content, presentation, and topic!
Excellent, this is the topic which I've always wondered about. Thanks!
This topic is awesome, and goes way deeper than I thought it would.
Fascinating video - thank you 🙏🏻. I bet the Bactria-Greeks who adopted Buddhism would have known what the carving on that rock meant. As a practitioner of a much more recent form of East-West Buddhist syncretism - Secular Buddhism (fusing “Western” post-rationalist enlightenment secular thought with Buddhism), I do not speak Pali or Sanskrit, but I know what those phrases mean. The concepts of Buddha, Dhamma/Dharma and Sangha are some of the first things one is taught when being introduced to Buddhist thought. And the taking of refuge in these “three jewels” is a central expression of Buddhist outlook. Anyone who had spent any time involved with Buddhist ideas, on reading that inscription, would have known exactly what it meant. Whereas, as someone who attended a Church of England primary (elementary) school in the UK where we would sing hymns and the like that included the word “Hallelujah”, and though I know it is a general expression of praise, I have no idea to this day what it actually means. Anyway - it was great to see this excellent presentation on some of my cultural forebears. Thank you again!
Thank you a great educational program in historical subjects, I highly recommend it. It's good to watch
We love underdiscussed cultural movements in history! Thans RFB!
The Berenike Buddha found in Egypt is another interesting piece in this puzzle, though certainly more Roman Era than Greek.
Actually the Greek Buddhist community had its presence in Greece itself with a temple probably in Epeirus, , around 300 CE, unfortunately they situation of competing religions in the area, mainly Mithraism and Christian Sects, made problematic their historic presence to further develop. With the dominance of Christianity, everything perished, included the original religion as well as the Hellenic View.
Honestly? The indigenous Greco Roman religions were dying out for a plethora of reasons by that time. Had Christianity or Judaism or Mithraism failed to take it over, there was already a monotheistic worship of Zeus and Jupiter if not Hercules.
It’s interesting how depictions of God takes influence from Zeus/Jupiter as how angels and so on are influenced by similar iconography. And the whole son of God and Trinity theology concepts are possibly linked to Greco Roman religion, since the concept is foreign to Judaism. Probably as a way to draw in followers.
@@ByTheStorm I will try to make it simpler because is a large subject you touched. The polytheistic religions describe history, culture, ethics (principles, virtues, ideals and values), views and not of course to mention the highly estimated subject of psychological support and development in form of archetypes (i.e. templates of personality and soul that reflect particular aspects of development). The abrahamic religions are when the Stalin arrives and declares himself the a messenger of himself, a god, sorry I wanted to say secretary (with moustache, how sexy). During the time of the Roman empire, the greatest populations transfer occured between all the regions of the imperium. This resulted to a loss of traditions and cultural decadence which together with the loss of local taxation put enormous pressure on the temples. Schools of thought and rituals where reduced to nothing, new religions (gnostics, mythraist etc) where becoming a common place, like today the Islam which we have in the West, since their population increased. The Christians removed aesthetics (color, rhythm, harmony) from art and reduced it to ashes; on the issue of iconography the became the pagans, by even suggesting the concepts of trinity and its emanation as according from father to son: polytheism under the guise of monotheism.
Later arrived Mr. Constantine and the surprise to his case was that he essentially (if not mistaken he killed wife and son) treason his own religion (mythraism) for his mother (Helena). Its because of him and his kind, that essentially we lost the Greek, Roman and in particular in Europe the Buddhaism (which I admit I admire).
The Greek and Roman religions were not dying. They were murdered.
P.S. I studied these subjects long time ago and I avoided to become my trade, which is engineer. P.S.2. geomagnetic storm today and tomorrow and electronic devices with high power batteries is good not to be near any flammable materials.
Somewhere within that messy incoherent wall of text I think you make an interesting point.
Is English your first language?
Displaced/resettled Greeks were already in central Asia when Persians conquered West Asia. Also some mainland Greeks would have been familiar with Hinduism because of their trade relationship with Southern India, which was predominantly Hindu during those times. There were Shaivite monks of Greek origin in Southern India.
Thank you! I just love this little unknown corner of history!!
It gets even wackier. Bodhidharma was a blue eyed Buddhist from India that went to China. At the Shaolin Monastery he was disappinted in their monks lack of physical strength, similar to Plato's philosophy on physical fitness. He taught them both meditation and pankration(a Greek martial art similar to modern mma). This evolved into what we call Kung Fu. Basically, he was your uncle that watches UFC and likes to fish in silence.
Bodhidharma didn't teach marrial art in china, there waa marrial art in china much before bodhi dharma arrived. In wudang mountain, toaist were already practicing Ti-chi. When bodidharma saw weak monk in shaolin, he teaches 6 or 7 excercises move to monk. But there is no record of these 7 excercise. Later the shaolin monk developed new kung fu style with these 7 excersise move
Bodhidharman is an Indian Buddhist monk from what is now Indian state of Tamil Nadu not some blue eyed European or whatever so stop trying to appropriate Indian history. Bodhidharman’s martial arts developed from the ancient Dravidian martial arts such as Silambattam and Kalari
Source?
@midknightfenerir People from India are able to be of what we now call mixed-race. Sarcasm aside, It's not rare for wealthy people to have foreign wives and/or mistresses. I never said European, colored eyes are rare but do show up in parts of Asia due in part to the campaigns of Alexander and the trade ports or routes that made contact with distant areas, including in Tamil Nadu. Check into some of the names for him in China. Being weird looking was a big part of his art and nicknames.
@@jackrobinett2907 Bodhidharma Anthology is a start for his general story.
Great content as always!! Just when i think i know sooo much about history or religion, this channel always finds a way to humble me
🤩 Woao, this is wobderful! Thank you for this video, Andrew! 🤩