The discourse behind the movie Promising Young Woman is sort of reflective of this issue, too. Like men are allowed to portray their weird abuse fantasies on screen but when someone wants to portray a woman taking revenge it's seen as too much
Right! Also, a lot of male revenge stories are them enacting revenge for brutalized women in their lives ex. Their dead/kidnapped/tortured wife or daughter. But women’s revenge stories are far more personal to them and either way, it’s women we see being harmed.
@@sapphic.flowerthe difference is that one is selfish and the other is selfless as to avenge others is far more honorable than oneself. How is that hard to understand? That being said avenging oneself is still more accepted for men which is a sexist point.
Villanelle from Killing Eve is a good example of a likable female anti-hero. She does a lot of objectively horrible things but her character is written so well and the actress is charismatic enough to make the audience root for her anyway
FIGHT CLUB Also, horror movies such as Jennifer's Body or Teeth were met with absolute, chilled horror from male audiences who had enjoyed plenty of violent slasher films. The difference was that this time, the scary thing was a woman. Media depicts male violence against men in action movies, female violence against women (often reduced to "cat fights" or "chick fights"), and plenty of examples of male violence against women. Female violence against men is rarely shown. When it is, the story tends to have the man win in the end and put the woman in her place, or it's shown as a joke.
they tend to use ASPD disorder to dramatize a character and then use the trauma part of the disorder to gain sympathy from the audience and “redeem” the character. Yes, there are low functioning sociopaths that behave in ways movies represents but there’s also high functioning and logical sociopaths that have never been violent a day in their life. Even when you look up sociopath it brings up all of the low functioning traits. It’s really a spectrum and I would love to see a high functioning ASPD character who isn’t there to cause conflict in a story line, just one that exists. I’m a woman, and we’re more than likely to be misdiagnosed with autism when we actually have ASPD due to the stigmatization even in the psychiatric field. It happened to me before because I was never provoked enough to use violence in my childhood, beside one instance as a teen when I finally used self-defense on my abuser (in which I was arrested for because cops always believe the adult and not the child…). I was extremely isolated and neglected and they labeled it as “anxiety” and then “autism” until it was clear I had ASPD. My symptoms were overlooked and that lead me to be treated for things I never even had. In my opinion Sociopaths are the most tolerable people, I don’t judge (what’s the point?), I don’t go out looking for victim’s and make evil plans, I know if I do something bad I’ll be in jail so I stray from it. Here’s a few bad traits I have to work on: being a social chameleon, selective empathy, controlling my emotions when fight or flight kicks in. We’re not some machine killing animal lmao I hate how popularized that is.
i think narcissists are the most problematic people, because of their entitlement. Plus society romantisizes it as beeing just a too vain and boastfull....
her name was "Love" because her parents named the twins using tennis lingo (her brother's name was Forty). in this case "Love" doesn't meant 'love' as in the feeling, but as in 'zero' (lack of score) which i believe is symbolic to her entire character and relationship w Joe.
@@angelface333 thanks! i grew up watching tennis, so i immediately knew (cause who names their son forty? LMAO!) but i think it's interesting because 40 is the highest score you can get, so forty is like "all" and love is "nothing" which is also symbolic of their relationship too! pretty cool stuff:)
@@kendell9089 do you happen to know what was the reason for that discrepancy? was it simply because they wanted to have a boy, or because they saw him as superior to their daughter?
@@hel2727 no, i think the writers did this on purpose for symbolic reasons. not sure if the book or show mentions why their parents decided to name who what name. i'd assume it also highlights their parents favoritism over forty, than love.
As a proud Murder Husbands girlie, the whole “I can fix him” thing is so bizarre to me. Like hon, no you can’t. Run. But I’m gay, so what do I know. TLDR: morally grey characters are great in a story. You don’t want those people in your life.
I think that a good example of male's actions being accepted just because of their gender is the movie The ugly truth. I was so excited to watch it but after 10 minutes in I noticed that it was just about a man who treated woman poorly based on the patriarchal standards and he was being praised for that. It was so disgusting to see it and find out that he never changed his point of view and when I went to watch the reviews no one said anything about it. Just sickening
Your review of 'YOU' reminds me that most reviewers either don't understand the show or don't understand the audience. Or they have a small sample of the audience that doesn't represent the rest. Being fascinated by Joe is not the same as rooting for him. Being intrigued and terrified by his actions is not the same as liking him or supporting what he's doing. From episode 1, most people I've spoken to about the show mention their awareness that Joe is a bad, evil man...that part of the "joke" is his good looks and charm, but as outsiders, it is easy to see and acknowledge that he isn't a good guy and no one should root for him. The enjoyment of the show is in the morbid fascination, not wanting him to win. ETA: The audience also "relates" more to Joe because the show is written and performed through his point of view. We're literally in his head from the very beginning. It's less about showing that they're the same, or even the writers saying anything about gender, and more about showing Joe's twisted view and thoughts of the world. We're not supposed to align with them, but we are supposed to understand them and, by S3, we're immersed in Joe's mind. The overall issue in writing may be true...but YOU isn't the best example because it is blatantly meant to exploit and satirize these ideas...sexism, narcissism, violence, stalking, etc and getting away with it all because you're a "pretty white boy."
you could say the same thing with Breaking Bad but a lot of people cheer for Heisenberg and sees him as a sigma role model even though the show like You, blatantly shows how evil the character is. These people argue Walter did nothing wrong, he only did it for his family when the actual story contradicts that. They also like to antagonize Skyler a lot which is fair considering we're following Walter's POV so we understood Walter's frustration better. But still, the misogyny is blown out of proportions. It should be clear by the end of the series Walter White is a piece of shit and Skyler is not even remotely comparable to him.
That morbid curiousity is exactly why I watch You. I watch the show to see just how much Joe screws up his life and I'm actively rooting for his downfall, and I hope the end of the show is him being placed in prison, and I hope they show the trail he created which led the police to discovering and therefore locating and arresting him. It'd be so cool to see the breadcrumbs from prior seasons being used to put him away. To show just how much he messed up. I watch the show to watch him fail lol, we all know it's probably the only way they could end the show. Either that or he dies and that's less interesting to me tbh. It'd be karmic justice to see his mistakes come back to bite him later. The show is entertaining even when he does get away with it tbh, but I'm always just like cmon cmonnnn get caught cmonnnn, so close, dang lol.
Small correction but Megamind never wanted to kill anyone, arguably not even hurt anyone and his arc is less about changing as a person and more changing how he percieves himself, when he escapes prison he doesn't hurt anyone (both times), he doesn't want to hurt Roxanne which is why she's not scared of him (but she is scared of Tighten), he views his rivalry with Metro-Man more like a game that he low key expects to lose and while he does "kill" Metro-Man he wasn't expecting to. Not that he doesn't do bad things/not change at all but as i said his ark is mostly about self perception.
No adult who’s ever watched Breaking Bad has seen Walter as a “admirable, rogue character”. The only people I’ve seen like that are teen boys who hate Skyler and want to be “sigmas” or whatever. Even before Walter became totally evil, he’s still shown to be a prideful, egotistical douchebag. The “I am the danger” scene isn’t supposed to be badass. Walt’s speech isn’t supposed to be taken at face value. In the context of the episode, it’s about how Walt’s gotten such a big head, that now he’s not even entertaining the whole “doing it for the family” angle. You’re supposed to feel scared for Skyler. The finale isn’t perfect but I don’t think Walter truly redeems himself, or that he gets off too easy or anything. He literally dies alone, away from the family he swore he’d protect, in a drown out painful way, before the cops find his body. I don’t want to discourage you, every youtuber has to start somewhere, but this is a very surface level analysis video. It’s more just listing examples of things instead of truly analyzing them.
Once again, a show that not only avoids this issue but improves on it is It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia. Charlie, Dennis, Mac, Dee and Frank are all the worst, and almost everyone they interact with knows it. And despite certain members doing worse deeds than others, on the whole, they’ve all done very bad things over the show's run. People often say that either Charlie or Dee or both are the least bad of the group, because they usually take the brunt of their friends’ abuse, but that’s just simply not true. Dennis may have created a system for banging women and disposing of them afterward, but Dee took advantage of her boyfriend’s kindness and flipped out when he was just trying to be nice and help her (Not to mention she got institutionalized for burning her college roommate), and Charlie used a girl who actually liked him to make his obsession jealous, insulted her to her face and left her in tears. Bottom line, they’re all equally terrible, no matter how many bad deeds they do individually. And what makes it even better is that originally in the pilot and first season, Dee was actually supposed to be the pleasant voice of reason, or the only sane member of the main cast, but Kaitlin Olson wanted her to be just as bad as the guys, so she was. Which is for the better, because having a voice of reason character in the main cast of a show like this doesn’t really work anyway, as it works a lot better if the people the Gang interacts with act as voices of reason.
I think a good example of this is Marry Winchester from supernatural. A lot of people just crap on her because she isnt the greatest mom ever like no shes not. But should she be, maybe morally but i think her character was much more real. Had a lot on her plate pulled from an entirely different world pretty much and now her children are late 40s. And im not making a moral defense of her I think some of the ways she treats the boys is bad. But as an adult in the real world while i dont agree with her actions i see where they come from and to me thats good character writing and her character goes a lot deeper then bad mom.
@@AngieDeAguirre Yes, that one It's an amazing show that has great portrayal of women, men, lesbian relationships, trauma, mental illnesses, disbilities, and other stuff It also has a really fun and interesting story, the art style is amazing, and the fighting scenes are even better!
For me. It makes complete sense in You that Love is othered as somehow "worse" than Joe because its from his perspective. Cluster B types, especially narcissists are incapable of recognizing their faults. So, he projects everything he hates about himself onto Love. I think its also why so many people were upset Beck was ungrateful and didn’t want to be with him? Because he couldn't see himself accurately. So, viewers cant necessarily see him clearly either. Its something that I appreciate about the writing. But also makes me worry. Because people are so much more susceptible to manipulation than I ever could have imagined. I did really enjoy this analysis though. Recently Ive been noticing this trend a lot in media. I can't count how many times I've seen people say a woman is more terrible or evil because they are supposed to have maternal instincts. Like there is some biological imperative that keeps women from doing bad things. It both minimizes people being believed when a woman DOES do something evil. And it reduces the motivations and reasoning of women to something biological. Which is a huge disservice to telling a good story.
I never got into You, I remember watching the second season (it was the only one I watched) and I was just waiting for when the writers were gonna make a moment where we’re like “Oh Joe is really, irredeemably bad. This guy is crazy” but there was nothing overt like that. I got the sense we were supposed to like him, and I really wasn’t into it so I stopped watching. Then I heard about how Love turned out to be crazy too and how everyone hated her and I was just like “… how could she possibly be worse than Joe? He’s a literal psychopath, and he does the same things I’m hearing she does so what’s the difference?” It’s insane how adamantly fans of this show will defend it.
The contrary to this is Rebecca in Crazy Ex Girlfriend who is very flawed but relatable, and there is Trent who is exactly like her but a guy and it's makes it evident how actually problematic their behaviours are.
American straights are not okay. 😳 I can't imagine being in love with Joe. The show is entertaining and I love the satiric perspective on Joe's character, making no secret that he's the villain and that is the POINT.
Not sure if Marla from I Care A Lot (or the whole movie, honestly) constitutes a complex character with how cartoonishly evil shes characterized to be and how mostly underdeveloped her paralel with Peter Dinklage's character is, but I do agree with the overall argument, I think a show that excels at writting a morally gray female character without making the audience unsimpathetic is FX's Archer with Mallory Archer, making a play on femme fatales by making the main characters mother a manipulative and greedy woman long past her prime who has however consolidated a ridiculous amount of status and power through ethically questionable means which she then exploits througout the show for her own gain, her codependant relationship with her son being probably the most complex and memorable in the whole show and definitely not one you get to see often in media without painting the woman as downright iredeemable
I clicked on this video because of I Care A Lot lol. The movie never gave me any reason to like or sympathise with Marla. So, I was genuinely confused and baffled when I realized at the climax I was supposed to be rooting for her. And NOT the stepmom of a crime boss. Who would have been the awesomest anti-hero character.
I came here for the thumbnail. I think the difference between the protagonists in your thumbnail is that Walter is not framed to be a hero or a good person or anything like that. We revel in his exploits but understand he’s an asshole and the show portrays him in that light. And even then you can sort of sympathize with him initially because he’s doing it to provide for his family. But that B from “I care a lot” is just pure evil. She’s fine with scamming old people out of their money… even worse, making them wards of the state against their will. And she’s framed as some sort symbol of empowerment. And even when the movie provides a chance to give her a comeuppance with the Russian mobsters, she still prevails and forms an even more horrible empire, allied with human traffickers.
@@GeekZone210 I felt disgusting watching that movie. I watched until the end because I thought she’d “get hers” somehow. Nope. I think a stalker shows up in the end and I don’t recall if he got to attack her or not, but I thought that was the end of her… nope. She comes out of that encounter stronger and more vile than ever. And the movie seems to want to make us see her as some feminist icon.
Once they actually have you know character and are interesting sure. I watch shows not to "look up" to characters. TV and movies are for entertainment, and some people take it too seriously.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!?!? Walter is NOT a good or a COOL man, literally the entire show is about a guy who was pushed around his whole life becoming evil and LIKING it. Nowhere in Breaking Bad are his actions justified. HE hides behind a lie that he is doing it for his family, but it's really convenient how you didn't mention his final words with Skyler where he says that he did all of this for HIM. Dude who bullied you as a child in school for you to be this much unhinged? Also cherry picking You a show that is literal shit, that has bad characters, is badly written and awful with other good movies/shows, but just because this one show has a charming guy that girls like is really not helping you in proving your point. Also show me who are the guys that watched this show that actually rooted for him? The overwhelming audience for this show are women. You yourself said that! They like this type of characters. So what's your whole point? And there's so much media where women are portrayed the same way, where the writer want's you to root for them despite them being a horrible but charming characters. Yes most of them are using their looks and sexuality, but isn't that THE SAME thing that Joe from You is doing?! Also Andrew Tate... You are doing this on purpose right? This whole video is a satire right? Majority of people mock him, and know he's a hustler. Nobody is taking him seriously and honestly his videos are pretty funny and hilarious. And he's also in prison house arrest wow, imagine that. And mentioning Milo, a guy who isn't relevant for the last... would you look at that, at least 8 years... But hey you have to cherry pick to make your point at least somewhat believable. : ^)
Writers made Walter without intention to justify but author of video said the audience is glorifying his actions and other male characters who is charismatic as he is. When female characters does the same, audience act like writers justifies that behavior.
YES THANK YOU i have always been a love defender and i wish her and joe would have ended up together because they were literally the same and i love her and she is iconic and she did nothing wrong and i literally could not keep watching you because i started to hate joe when he was disgusted with love for doing exactly what he does.
Look, I agree with you that people look up to Joe too much, and look down on Love too much, and that they shouldn't do that. But I also think that while Joe shouldn't be defended, neither should Love. Both of them are horrible people who literally STALK and MURDER others.
In what part of the world is that the way people are socialized? I haven't seen it where I'm from gender norms to the guillotine everywhere, not just my home
I have two experiences but they are weird and do not quite fit the image. My best friend is male and he's gay ofc most of my family does not know this and I post a lot of photos of me and him at events and I have been bombarded by people asking me if I'm in a relationship with him hell when we where younger he thought I had a crush on him when in reality I was just shy and stuck to him cause he's a sweet dude. The other situation has been with both of my exfriends exes who are both cool guys. One of them called me pretty while drunk while it is not something life-changing it was unusual for me to get a compliment and it had our friendship rocky for a while but we got over it. The second story is more serious as it has to do with the way I view intimacy. The ex kissed me at a party and I drunk and high on adrenaline kissed him back. I'm sure that for him it was some sort of revenge since my friend treated him horribly and for me well due to consent issues created by that ex-friend it meant nothing because my ex-friend had done the same to me except she hadn't asked for permission but other than that occasion we have a close friendship
I think that one of the problems that many strong female characters have in media is that they're just badly written. Because we as a society don't like seeing women be aggressive and flawed, then when we think of strong women, we think of women who are perfect. Problem: perfect characters are boring characters. But if the women aren't perfect, then they're seen as bad or evil, when the same wouldn't happen if they were a man.
@@randominternetartist2615 ...what... no one thinks that. Sarah Connor is aggressive and flawed. Lara Croft is aggressive and flawed. Ellen Ripley is aggressive and flawed. We don't want women to be perfect no we want human characters 😭
@@eta_carithebrightlord3396 if people didn't think like that we wouldn't have characters like She Hulk, Captain Marvel, or Rey It might no be a conscious thought, it often isn't actually, but it's still there in the subconscious of some people. remember: you're not everyone
Ok, just because we watch villains, doesn't mean we think they're good people or that we're rooting for them. I think interested is a better word to describe. Villains can be interesting, but that doesn't mean we want them to succeed. And yes, we do think a domineering woman is a b**ch, but we also think a domineering man is an a-hole. We don't see him as a leader, but as an annoying presence we want to avoid like the plague. I wouldn't follow some obnoxious bragging loud mouth, regardless of gender. I hate those people.
So much of the audience of Breaking Bad glorifies Walter I'm glad that you don't and that you are surrounded by people who don't, and recognize that he is a piece of shit. But just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.
This is the same thing as complaining about Captain Marvel being greatly criticized and blaming it on her being a woman instead of the valid critiques that her character isn’t written well or very relatable. Instead of a complex character who has their faults, to make a “strong female lead” they literally just made her a strong, stoic woman which is no where near the same thing
based on what i have heard in this video somehow makes me think that the movie is made by feminists since and if its not ok but who made the movie cause unless im remembering wrong when the rising of the sheild hero anime came out they were up in arms because almost the first thing that happens is a woman lying about rape and think that its written by a man but it wasnt
This was the biggest amount of cope i've ever seen. The problem with female characters is the left. Forcing them to be BORING strong leads, without flaws. It has nothing to do with made up buzzwords like patriarchy. The fact that you even use that term unironically discredits this already laughable video.
And ofc its the anime pfp with a Japanese name instead of actually pointing out what's wrong with alot of female characters writing is instead "THE LEFT, THE STINKING LEFT! RUINING EVERYTHING!". Sailor Moon pfp and you want to behave as if that animanga doesn't have feminist influences and beliefs, which news flash feminism is a leftist movement/ideal. What you're talking about is liberals, specifically corporate liberals. Basically secretly conservative people under the guise of leftist beliefs. Aren't you at least a little embarrassed
The reason that so many strong female leads are boring as fuck is because society sees women as perfect and does not allow them to be flawed. Men, on the other hand, are allowed to be flawed, and this is why there are so many interesting male leads. There are many other ways that men and women are seen and portrayed differently by society. This usually favours men, praising them for certain traits and shaming women with those same traits This difference in how people see men and women (favouring men and shaming women) is called the patriarchy because it benefits men and discriminates against women So yes, the reason why so many boring female leads exist is because of the patriarchy, and the left's inability to free themselves from those stereotypes while still wanting to write representation
The discourse behind the movie Promising Young Woman is sort of reflective of this issue, too. Like men are allowed to portray their weird abuse fantasies on screen but when someone wants to portray a woman taking revenge it's seen as too much
Right! Also, a lot of male revenge stories are them enacting revenge for brutalized women in their lives ex. Their dead/kidnapped/tortured wife or daughter. But women’s revenge stories are far more personal to them and either way, it’s women we see being harmed.
@@sapphic.flowerthe difference is that one is selfish and the other is selfless as to avenge others is far more honorable than oneself. How is that hard to understand? That being said avenging oneself is still more accepted for men which is a sexist point.
I really like the part where you say, "What does femininity look like without the burden of sexualization?"
Villanelle from Killing Eve is a good example of a likable female anti-hero. She does a lot of objectively horrible things but her character is written so well and the actress is charismatic enough to make the audience root for her anyway
FIGHT CLUB
Also, horror movies such as Jennifer's Body or Teeth were met with absolute, chilled horror from male audiences who had enjoyed plenty of violent slasher films. The difference was that this time, the scary thing was a woman.
Media depicts male violence against men in action movies, female violence against women (often reduced to "cat fights" or "chick fights"), and plenty of examples of male violence against women.
Female violence against men is rarely shown. When it is, the story tends to have the man win in the end and put the woman in her place, or it's shown as a joke.
they tend to use ASPD disorder to dramatize a character and then use the trauma part of the disorder to gain sympathy from the audience and “redeem” the character. Yes, there are low functioning sociopaths that behave in ways movies represents but there’s also high functioning and logical sociopaths that have never been violent a day in their life. Even when you look up sociopath it brings up all of the low functioning traits. It’s really a spectrum and I would love to see a high functioning ASPD character who isn’t there to cause conflict in a story line, just one that exists. I’m a woman, and we’re more than likely to be misdiagnosed with autism when we actually have ASPD due to the stigmatization even in the psychiatric field. It happened to me before because I was never provoked enough to use violence in my childhood, beside one instance as a teen when I finally used self-defense on my abuser (in which I was arrested for because cops always believe the adult and not the child…). I was extremely isolated and neglected and they labeled it as “anxiety” and then “autism” until it was clear I had ASPD. My symptoms were overlooked and that lead me to be treated for things I never even had. In my opinion Sociopaths are the most tolerable people, I don’t judge (what’s the point?), I don’t go out looking for victim’s and make evil plans, I know if I do something bad I’ll be in jail so I stray from it. Here’s a few bad traits I have to work on: being a social chameleon, selective empathy, controlling my emotions when fight or flight kicks in. We’re not some machine killing animal lmao I hate how popularized that is.
i think narcissists are the most problematic people, because of their entitlement. Plus society romantisizes it as beeing just a too vain and boastfull....
her name was "Love" because her parents named the twins using tennis lingo (her brother's name was Forty). in this case "Love" doesn't meant 'love' as in the feeling, but as in 'zero' (lack of score) which i believe is symbolic to her entire character and relationship w Joe.
wow great analysis 🩷🙌🏾
@@angelface333 thanks! i grew up watching tennis, so i immediately knew (cause who names their son forty? LMAO!) but i think it's interesting because 40 is the highest score you can get, so forty is like "all" and love is "nothing" which is also symbolic of their relationship too! pretty cool stuff:)
@@kendell9089 that’s so cool! i never noticed the symbolism 🤯
@@kendell9089 do you happen to know what was the reason for that discrepancy? was it simply because they wanted to have a boy, or because they saw him as superior to their daughter?
@@hel2727 no, i think the writers did this on purpose for symbolic reasons. not sure if the book or show mentions why their parents decided to name who what name. i'd assume it also highlights their parents favoritism over forty, than love.
As a proud Murder Husbands girlie, the whole “I can fix him” thing is so bizarre to me. Like hon, no you can’t. Run. But I’m gay, so what do I know.
TLDR: morally grey characters are great in a story. You don’t want those people in your life.
I think that a good example of male's actions being accepted just because of their gender is the movie The ugly truth. I was so excited to watch it but after 10 minutes in I noticed that it was just about a man who treated woman poorly based on the patriarchal standards and he was being praised for that. It was so disgusting to see it and find out that he never changed his point of view and when I went to watch the reviews no one said anything about it. Just sickening
Is this a joke? That movie was critically panned.
Your review of 'YOU' reminds me that most reviewers either don't understand the show or don't understand the audience. Or they have a small sample of the audience that doesn't represent the rest. Being fascinated by Joe is not the same as rooting for him. Being intrigued and terrified by his actions is not the same as liking him or supporting what he's doing. From episode 1, most people I've spoken to about the show mention their awareness that Joe is a bad, evil man...that part of the "joke" is his good looks and charm, but as outsiders, it is easy to see and acknowledge that he isn't a good guy and no one should root for him. The enjoyment of the show is in the morbid fascination, not wanting him to win.
ETA: The audience also "relates" more to Joe because the show is written and performed through his point of view. We're literally in his head from the very beginning. It's less about showing that they're the same, or even the writers saying anything about gender, and more about showing Joe's twisted view and thoughts of the world. We're not supposed to align with them, but we are supposed to understand them and, by S3, we're immersed in Joe's mind. The overall issue in writing may be true...but YOU isn't the best example because it is blatantly meant to exploit and satirize these ideas...sexism, narcissism, violence, stalking, etc and getting away with it all because you're a "pretty white boy."
And none of that has anything to do with liking the actor who portrays him.
you could say the same thing with Breaking Bad but a lot of people cheer for Heisenberg and sees him as a sigma role model even though the show like You, blatantly shows how evil the character is. These people argue Walter did nothing wrong, he only did it for his family when the actual story contradicts that. They also like to antagonize Skyler a lot which is fair considering we're following Walter's POV so we understood Walter's frustration better. But still, the misogyny is blown out of proportions. It should be clear by the end of the series Walter White is a piece of shit and Skyler is not even remotely comparable to him.
That morbid curiousity is exactly why I watch You. I watch the show to see just how much Joe screws up his life and I'm actively rooting for his downfall, and I hope the end of the show is him being placed in prison, and I hope they show the trail he created which led the police to discovering and therefore locating and arresting him. It'd be so cool to see the breadcrumbs from prior seasons being used to put him away. To show just how much he messed up. I watch the show to watch him fail lol, we all know it's probably the only way they could end the show. Either that or he dies and that's less interesting to me tbh. It'd be karmic justice to see his mistakes come back to bite him later. The show is entertaining even when he does get away with it tbh, but I'm always just like cmon cmonnnn get caught cmonnnn, so close, dang lol.
my favorite example of this is how the bojack horseman fandom treats bojack vs how they treat diane, even though his actions are way worse than hers.
Small correction but Megamind never wanted to kill anyone, arguably not even hurt anyone and his arc is less about changing as a person and more changing how he percieves himself, when he escapes prison he doesn't hurt anyone (both times), he doesn't want to hurt Roxanne which is why she's not scared of him (but she is scared of Tighten), he views his rivalry with Metro-Man more like a game that he low key expects to lose and while he does "kill" Metro-Man he wasn't expecting to.
Not that he doesn't do bad things/not change at all but as i said his ark is mostly about self perception.
No adult who’s ever watched Breaking Bad has seen Walter as a “admirable, rogue character”. The only people I’ve seen like that are teen boys who hate Skyler and want to be “sigmas” or whatever. Even before Walter became totally evil, he’s still shown to be a prideful, egotistical douchebag.
The “I am the danger” scene isn’t supposed to be badass. Walt’s speech isn’t supposed to be taken at face value. In the context of the episode, it’s about how Walt’s gotten such a big head, that now he’s not even entertaining the whole “doing it for the family” angle. You’re supposed to feel scared for Skyler.
The finale isn’t perfect but I don’t think Walter truly redeems himself, or that he gets off too easy or anything. He literally dies alone, away from the family he swore he’d protect, in a drown out painful way, before the cops find his body.
I don’t want to discourage you, every youtuber has to start somewhere, but this is a very surface level analysis video. It’s more just listing examples of things instead of truly analyzing them.
Once again, a show that not only avoids this issue but improves on it is It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia. Charlie, Dennis, Mac, Dee and Frank are all the worst, and almost everyone they interact with knows it. And despite certain members doing worse deeds than others, on the whole, they’ve all done very bad things over the show's run. People often say that either Charlie or Dee or both are the least bad of the group, because they usually take the brunt of their friends’ abuse, but that’s just simply not true. Dennis may have created a system for banging women and disposing of them afterward, but Dee took advantage of her boyfriend’s kindness and flipped out when he was just trying to be nice and help her (Not to mention she got institutionalized for burning her college roommate), and Charlie used a girl who actually liked him to make his obsession jealous, insulted her to her face and left her in tears. Bottom line, they’re all equally terrible, no matter how many bad deeds they do individually.
And what makes it even better is that originally in the pilot and first season, Dee was actually supposed to be the pleasant voice of reason, or the only sane member of the main cast, but Kaitlin Olson wanted her to be just as bad as the guys, so she was. Which is for the better, because having a voice of reason character in the main cast of a show like this doesn’t really work anyway, as it works a lot better if the people the Gang interacts with act as voices of reason.
"Boys will be boys and girls will be quiet" is such a raw line, goddamn.
I think a good example of this is Marry Winchester from supernatural. A lot of people just crap on her because she isnt the greatest mom ever like no shes not. But should she be, maybe morally but i think her character was much more real. Had a lot on her plate pulled from an entirely different world pretty much and now her children are late 40s. And im not making a moral defense of her I think some of the ways she treats the boys is bad. But as an adult in the real world while i dont agree with her actions i see where they come from and to me thats good character writing and her character goes a lot deeper then bad mom.
This! It's bizarre hearing people shit on her for being such a bad mom and so unlikable when she's grappling with horrifying existential circumstances
I'm loving these videos, feminist media literacy critique is such a great youtube segment and its so awesome to find more people doing it.
Arcane is a good show that deals with masculine women very well, as well as masculine and feminine men
The League of Legends show?
@@AngieDeAguirre Yes, that one
It's an amazing show that has great portrayal of women, men, lesbian relationships, trauma, mental illnesses, disbilities, and other stuff
It also has a really fun and interesting story, the art style is amazing, and the fighting scenes are even better!
For me. It makes complete sense in You that Love is othered as somehow "worse" than Joe because its from his perspective.
Cluster B types, especially narcissists are incapable of recognizing their faults.
So, he projects everything he hates about himself onto Love.
I think its also why so many people were upset Beck was ungrateful and didn’t want to be with him?
Because he couldn't see himself accurately. So, viewers cant necessarily see him clearly either.
Its something that I appreciate about the writing. But also makes me worry. Because people are so much more susceptible to manipulation than I ever could have imagined.
I did really enjoy this analysis though. Recently Ive been noticing this trend a lot in media.
I can't count how many times I've seen people say a woman is more terrible or evil because they are supposed to have maternal instincts.
Like there is some biological imperative that keeps women from doing bad things.
It both minimizes people being believed when a woman DOES do something evil.
And it reduces the motivations and reasoning of women to something biological. Which is a huge disservice to telling a good story.
nice writing, looking forward to more videos.
Loving your content!
Thank you for this video! We need content like this 💯
This was well thought out, well edited, and I enjoyed your vibe throughout the video. Gave me a lot to think about
I never got into You, I remember watching the second season (it was the only one I watched) and I was just waiting for when the writers were gonna make a moment where we’re like “Oh Joe is really, irredeemably bad. This guy is crazy” but there was nothing overt like that. I got the sense we were supposed to like him, and I really wasn’t into it so I stopped watching. Then I heard about how Love turned out to be crazy too and how everyone hated her and I was just like “… how could she possibly be worse than Joe? He’s a literal psychopath, and he does the same things I’m hearing she does so what’s the difference?” It’s insane how adamantly fans of this show will defend it.
ur so funny, I love all ur niche topics !!
The contrary to this is Rebecca in Crazy Ex Girlfriend who is very flawed but relatable, and there is Trent who is exactly like her but a guy and it's makes it evident how actually problematic their behaviours are.
If Love had succeeded in killimg Joe and that was the finale of You, I would have rooted for her and found it to be a satisfying ending
Erm actually Love is named that in the book too 😭
American straights are not okay. 😳 I can't imagine being in love with Joe. The show is entertaining and I love the satiric perspective on Joe's character, making no secret that he's the villain and that is the POINT.
Not sure if Marla from I Care A Lot (or the whole movie, honestly) constitutes a complex character with how cartoonishly evil shes characterized to be and how mostly underdeveloped her paralel with Peter Dinklage's character is, but I do agree with the overall argument, I think a show that excels at writting a morally gray female character without making the audience unsimpathetic is FX's Archer with Mallory Archer, making a play on femme fatales by making the main characters mother a manipulative and greedy woman long past her prime who has however consolidated a ridiculous amount of status and power through ethically questionable means which she then exploits througout the show for her own gain, her codependant relationship with her son being probably the most complex and memorable in the whole show and definitely not one you get to see often in media without painting the woman as downright iredeemable
I clicked on this video because of I Care A Lot lol.
The movie never gave me any reason to like or sympathise with Marla. So, I was genuinely confused and baffled when I realized at the climax I was supposed to be rooting for her.
And NOT the stepmom of a crime boss. Who would have been the awesomest anti-hero character.
love everyone naming female antihero movies I WILL be watching them all
Did nobody learn from the sopranos?! Evil is not glory!!
I came here for the thumbnail.
I think the difference between the protagonists in your thumbnail is that Walter is not framed to be a hero or a good person or anything like that. We revel in his exploits but understand he’s an asshole and the show portrays him in that light. And even then you can sort of sympathize with him initially because he’s doing it to provide for his family.
But that B from “I care a lot” is just pure evil. She’s fine with scamming old people out of their money… even worse, making them wards of the state against their will. And she’s framed as some sort symbol of empowerment. And even when the movie provides a chance to give her a comeuppance with the Russian mobsters, she still prevails and forms an even more horrible empire, allied with human traffickers.
Perfectly explained.
@@GeekZone210 I felt disgusting watching that movie. I watched until the end because I thought she’d “get hers” somehow. Nope. I think a stalker shows up in the end and I don’t recall if he got to attack her or not, but I thought that was the end of her… nope. She comes out of that encounter stronger and more vile than ever. And the movie seems to want to make us see her as some feminist icon.
kim wexler literally exists wdym
Once they actually have you know character and are interesting sure. I watch shows not to "look up" to characters. TV and movies are for entertainment, and some people take it too seriously.
Too many people will defend Daenerys Targaryen's actions even though she has done things just as bad as Cersei Lannister.
What does that have to do with sexism?
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!?!? Walter is NOT a good or a COOL man, literally the entire show is about a guy who was pushed around his whole life becoming evil and LIKING it. Nowhere in Breaking Bad are his actions justified. HE hides behind a lie that he is doing it for his family, but it's really convenient how you didn't mention his final words with Skyler where he says that he did all of this for HIM.
Dude who bullied you as a child in school for you to be this much unhinged?
Also cherry picking You a show that is literal shit, that has bad characters, is badly written and awful with other good movies/shows, but just because this one show has a charming guy that girls like is really not helping you in proving your point. Also show me who are the guys that watched this show that actually rooted for him? The overwhelming audience for this show are women. You yourself said that! They like this type of characters. So what's your whole point?
And there's so much media where women are portrayed the same way, where the writer want's you to root for them despite them being a horrible but charming characters. Yes most of them are using their looks and sexuality, but isn't that THE SAME thing that Joe from You is doing?!
Also Andrew Tate... You are doing this on purpose right? This whole video is a satire right? Majority of people mock him, and know he's a hustler. Nobody is taking him seriously and honestly his videos are pretty funny and hilarious. And he's also in prison house arrest wow, imagine that. And mentioning Milo, a guy who isn't relevant for the last... would you look at that, at least 8 years...
But hey you have to cherry pick to make your point at least somewhat believable. : ^)
Writers made Walter without intention to justify but author of video said the audience is glorifying his actions and other male characters who is charismatic as he is. When female characters does the same, audience act like writers justifies that behavior.
Commenting for engagement :) great video. You're very entertaining
YES THANK YOU i have always been a love defender and i wish her and joe would have ended up together because they were literally the same and i love her and she is iconic and she did nothing wrong and i literally could not keep watching you because i started to hate joe when he was disgusted with love for doing exactly what he does.
Look, I agree with you that people look up to Joe too much, and look down on Love too much, and that they shouldn't do that. But I also think that while Joe shouldn't be defended, neither should Love. Both of them are horrible people who literally STALK and MURDER others.
In what part of the world is that the way people are socialized?
I haven't seen it where I'm from
gender norms to the guillotine everywhere, not just my home
I have two experiences but they are weird and do not quite fit the image. My best friend is male and he's gay ofc most of my family does not know this and I post a lot of photos of me and him at events and I have been bombarded by people asking me if I'm in a relationship with him hell when we where younger he thought I had a crush on him when in reality I was just shy and stuck to him cause he's a sweet dude. The other situation has been with both of my exfriends exes who are both cool guys. One of them called me pretty while drunk while it is not something life-changing it was unusual for me to get a compliment and it had our friendship rocky for a while but we got over it. The second story is more serious as it has to do with the way I view intimacy. The ex kissed me at a party and I drunk and high on adrenaline kissed him back. I'm sure that for him it was some sort of revenge since my friend treated him horribly and for me well due to consent issues created by that ex-friend it meant nothing because my ex-friend had done the same to me except she hadn't asked for permission but other than that occasion we have a close friendship
This guy is so funny 😂 the amount of times I cackled in this video. But also felt cleverer for being enlightened about these double standards
6:55 YOU SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED LIFE IS STRANGE IN THIS IT WAS PERFECT FOR A FEMALE D E E P CHARACTER!!!!!!
The way i see it is i dont like characters who have no flaws and can never fail like Rey and such. I like characters who are fallible.
I think that one of the problems that many strong female characters have in media is that they're just badly written. Because we as a society don't like seeing women be aggressive and flawed, then when we think of strong women, we think of women who are perfect. Problem: perfect characters are boring characters. But if the women aren't perfect, then they're seen as bad or evil, when the same wouldn't happen if they were a man.
@@randominternetartist2615 ...what... no one thinks that.
Sarah Connor is aggressive and flawed.
Lara Croft is aggressive and flawed.
Ellen Ripley is aggressive and flawed.
We don't want women to be perfect no we want human characters 😭
@@eta_carithebrightlord3396 if people didn't think like that we wouldn't have characters like She Hulk, Captain Marvel, or Rey
It might no be a conscious thought, it often isn't actually, but it's still there in the subconscious of some people. remember: you're not everyone
@@randominternetartist2615 Well neither are tge vocal minority who make those shows
Ok, just because we watch villains, doesn't mean we think they're good people or that we're rooting for them. I think interested is a better word to describe. Villains can be interesting, but that doesn't mean we want them to succeed. And yes, we do think a domineering woman is a b**ch, but we also think a domineering man is an a-hole. We don't see him as a leader, but as an annoying presence we want to avoid like the plague. I wouldn't follow some obnoxious bragging loud mouth, regardless of gender. I hate those people.
So much of the audience of Breaking Bad glorifies Walter
I'm glad that you don't and that you are surrounded by people who don't, and recognize that he is a piece of shit. But just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.
Thank you
This is the same thing as complaining about Captain Marvel being greatly criticized and blaming it on her being a woman instead of the valid critiques that her character isn’t written well or very relatable. Instead of a complex character who has their faults, to make a “strong female lead” they literally just made her a strong, stoic woman which is no where near the same thing
sadly most female characters never go beyond the complexity of "i think i am opressed and this gives me the divine right to be an asshole"
That's a lie, most female characters are complex, sonetimes some of you are just too soft to face reality.
Or at least certain audiences won't let them be
By that logic most male characters never go beyond the complexity of “ I’m a man and I can abuse people because of that”
Then why are yandere's are so popular?
Let’s goooooooooooo
As a woman I am not rooting for joe I'm rooting for ellie, marienne, and nadia
Because of wheel of Trash... I gotta root for the short guy in I care alot
based on what i have heard in this video somehow makes me think that the movie is made by feminists since and if its not ok but who made the movie cause unless im remembering wrong when the rising of the sheild hero anime came out they were up in arms because almost the first thing that happens is a woman lying about rape and think that its written by a man but it wasnt
reall
This was the biggest amount of cope i've ever seen.
The problem with female characters is the left. Forcing them to be BORING strong leads, without flaws. It has nothing to do with made up buzzwords like patriarchy.
The fact that you even use that term unironically discredits this already laughable video.
'made up buzzwords' who is coping here? 😭
And ofc its the anime pfp with a Japanese name instead of actually pointing out what's wrong with alot of female characters writing is instead "THE LEFT, THE STINKING LEFT! RUINING EVERYTHING!".
Sailor Moon pfp and you want to behave as if that animanga doesn't have feminist influences and beliefs, which news flash feminism is a leftist movement/ideal.
What you're talking about is liberals, specifically corporate liberals. Basically secretly conservative people under the guise of leftist beliefs.
Aren't you at least a little embarrassed
Both sides create boring female characters
The reason that so many strong female leads are boring as fuck is because society sees women as perfect and does not allow them to be flawed. Men, on the other hand, are allowed to be flawed, and this is why there are so many interesting male leads.
There are many other ways that men and women are seen and portrayed differently by society. This usually favours men, praising them for certain traits and shaming women with those same traits
This difference in how people see men and women (favouring men and shaming women) is called the patriarchy because it benefits men and discriminates against women
So yes, the reason why so many boring female leads exist is because of the patriarchy, and the left's inability to free themselves from those stereotypes while still wanting to write representation