Not sure if anyone's gonna see this on an old video, but game developer here Game animations do have a base frame rate (usually 30 fps, unless it's an Arc Sys case) but the game engine sees the seconds rather than the frames. You can animate a 60 frame animation at 30 fps, but the game engine will see "This animation is 2 seconds" and show it at the game's current frame rate. I've both made my own games (small indie prototype projects, but they're in 3D) and I've made the Master Form mod for KH3, and the frame rate of KH3's (and my own) animations are 30 fps (a lot of times, individual animation files will have a setting to actually set the animation frame rate and interpolation will take over if needed, so you got that part right). Please keep in mind that this is the standpoint from a 3D dev, not 2D
For 2D, there are polygonal games that animate more or less the same as 3D games, but pixel animation is nowhere close. First, you gotta differentiate between the frames and the frame rates. Mario's run cycle in Super Mario Bros 2 animates very quickly, but it consists of 2 frames looping. Cuphead was made with traditional cel animation, mostly on 2s, but in game those poses don't necessarily run at 12fps. Then you have things like fighting games that are all over the place. A jump kick could consist of a single pose, but it's designed to seamlessly transition into other animations such as a jump block or a landing. Combos or special moves in the same game could easily have 24 frames. I guess a good baseline is a modern pixel platformer will usually have 6-12 frames per animation, but those animations could play anywhere from 6 to 60fps depending on the effect the animator is going for.
NO! NO! NO! Many people say I am sick in the head. NOOOO!!!! I don't believe them. But there are so many people commenting this stuff on my videos, that I have 1% doubt. So I have to ask you right now: Do you think I am sick in the head? Thanks for helping, my dear jess
@@coocato He's got good takes, he's got bad takes. Like everyone. I'd say he's just your average human being who was lucky enough to come on top of the mess that is twitch. He is no role model, he is no negative example of negative examples. He is a human, and as with other humans, one can agree or disagree. I sometimes stumble on clips of his, and at times I find myself agreeing, at times I could come up with an entire thesis against his opinion.
Wasn’t there hecka mocap done for fight scenes in The Clone Wars but then they went back and fixed it to make it fit in with the rest of the animation? That would be kind of like using mocap as a tool (just like Noodle said lol)
@@RyandBurtson they do that for pretty much everything mo-cap from what I know. raw mo-cap data always has little twitches and bugs here and there, so for most big productions, even movie productions they do a manual pass over the whole thing
I honestly _still_ don't get how people can look at interpolated 60 fps footage of something made for between 12 to 24 and think it looks better with the weird, smooth movement between poses that hold for just a LITTLE too long and think that it looks good. It looks more noticeably staggered to me, and that's before even considering artistic intent. Really it'll only look good if the media in question was made for interpolation.
I agree, but Imagine if a mad lad ACTUALLY painfully animated something at 60fps. Like every single little frame LMAO, shit would look mad silky! Artist would probably just dissolve after though.
Oh god now that you said it that sounds like a huge pain. Let's say that it's a 25 minute video. So 60 frames per second is 3,600 frames a minute so a 25 minute episode is 90,000 frames. Let's say there are 12 episodes so that will be 1,080,000 frames! Imagine animating that many frames. Of course the time will vary depending on the intro or ending but still, that's a lot of frames. By the way I love your vids Calebcity
I love how you physically printed and glued each comment onto a little cutout instead of just overlaying them on screen. That’s commitment to the craft.
Anyone who says that animators are “lazy” for not animating in 60fps have no idea what they’re talking about. 60fps would almost triple the budget and time it would take to make ANYTHING animated. If the industry as a whole decided to only start animating in 60 from now on, the animation industry would cease to exist. Companies would refuse to fund new shows or movies because it would be too expensive
Yeah, they seem to want to live in a world where animated movies are released years apart and all animation UA-camrs move to onlyfans to make back the money they missed for having to spend a year making a 3 min video Animatics with 1-12 frames a second are proof enough that creativity and enjoyment isn't tied to frame rate
i animated my first-ever short film in 60fps because i was convinced it would look so much better than 24, without even slightly considering how much harder that would be wow that was an awful decision on my end
People who think animators are lazy either under-estimate how hard animating is or expect animators to work 24/7 and have no life outside of the animation program
the two arguments basically boil down to: 1: Thats just your opinion 2: 60 fps is better (in my opinion) Which is kinda ironic that the two arguments contradict eachother
A bit late to the party here and likely won't be seen. But to answer the question about animations in games. We animate at 30fps. Reason being most goals and intentions for games is to run at 60fps. The engine itself interprets the animation and and since 30 is half of 60 it usually always makes for a very smooth and nice interpretation. Now this interpelation can be tuned and adjusted within the engine. Allowing us control over a lot of the fine tunework with how the animation plays. Now the main thing though is the fact that the animation is baked down. Meaning each frame is keyed at the end when exporting. This means the animation timing doesn't get influenced by the framerate or anything above it, as the anim is now playing independently maintaining the intention while playing inside the engine with whatever framerate is playing. Source, game animator for vr and ar interactive technologies.
Games run at 34 fps my guy and that usually depends what software your using to create anamation for a game but yea you got a point I think AI is stinky because look what it did with sonic adventures
Exactly! Also not to mention 3D animation is technically interpolated to some degree since we don't have to animate each frame like in 2D. Loved your insight and this comment as a whole! 👍
@@zanghproductions2559 it was such a relief when I started trying out 3D animation that I found out it wasn’t done frame by frame. I and only done stop motion with legos before, so you can imagine the “oh thank fuck” I felt.
Game dev and artist here: 8:24 when we create an animation in a 3D software, we use so called "keyframes". These are key poses that define the major structure of the animation. The software automatically interpolates between the frames using basic lerping functions that more advanced animators can change using curves to give it more character. So essentially, to put it in simple terms, 3D animations for games are animated at infinite fps because the data in between frames gets calculated using math, just like how you can zoom into a vector image indefinitely and it'll never lose resolution, or how text in a text editor can be zoomed in without looking blurry.
I'm not a game developer. But as a 3D animator in SFM. I animate with 24fps set as the template base, but once I'm finished I can just render at whatever FPS I want and it just auto tweens the movement for the FPS you choose.
Also worth mentioning that this process is VERY different from interpolating the already-rendered video with an AI because it's only interpolating the motion of rigid objects you define in the creation process. That way there's still only motion blur when the animator or developer wants it but the motion is still smoother. Almost like the whole process is some kind of tool that works well when used correctly but doesn't work well when its lazily tacked onto someone else's work.
Yeah, but the program IS made for that. Not to make quick maths just so a real-life action movie program can change framerate of animation made by hand.
Game animator here, we animate 3d objects on keyframes and interpolate with curves for correct timing. Actually way fewer steps than in 2d and is the reason games can run at any frame rate, the animation isn't tied to a frame, it's object positions and rotations being moved through 3d space along a curve so each time a new frame needs to render in real--time it can look at the current time and pick the correct point along the curve.
@@fyrespark2077 With how different the fidelity is in 3D stuff, no. I also don't think people would be willing to have a 1 kilowatt appliance just for watching media. With how detailed movies like Luca are, each frame often takes several minutes to render. In games we are used to frames per second, but when high-detail CGI is concerned, it's often minutes to hours per frame.
@@fyrespark2077 A lot of shows and studios are already working in, or gearing up to be in Unreal Engine and other real-time rendered engines. However, its important to point out it has nothing to do with framerates, and everything to do with saving rendering time. Real time engines are reaching enough fidelity that being able to have instant feedback for any lighting and shading changes is worth the trade-off from not having full rendering, specially for kids TV or stylized shows where it'll be more or less indistinguishable. At the end of the day it still winds up rendered down into a video file, unless its one of UE or Unity's downloadable demo shorts you're never going to get a program to run on your computer, and high powered PCs and render farms are still involved. Take it from me as I've worked on a kid's cartoon made in Unreal Engine, as a 3D rigger. Also Epic is throwing money around so its actually worth the studio's time to build a whole pipeline around it just to try it, but I digress. All 3D animation already works on the same principle mentioned by the game animator, its just rendered at 24 fps, there's nothing other than choice stopping it from going higher (games are animated in the same software as movies). Animators set keyframes, then the computer interpolates everything in between. The story doesn't end there though, as it creates a curve the animator has control over to decide HOW it interpolates, and at any point another keyframe can be made based off the interpolated ones and adjusted. You can also move frames around and widen gaps in timing, and the curve will fill in infinitely, its all math after all, so framerate conversion would be there. So the human touch and intent is all still there, the computer just takes over as in-betweener and animators just have to deal with curves. (This is actually maybe not the best for character animation and while it sounds good on paper in practice it has led to a lot of annoying, technical overhead that gets in the way of animation and a ton of animators, riggers, and productions, myself included, are finding that actually its much better to simply take control and forego interpolation and match 2D techniques since maybe our entire approach has been misguided for decades buuuuut I digress)
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew Your last point reminded me of something I heard about Monsters Inc, in that apparently every single frame with Sulley in it took over 10 hours to render because the strands of hair in his fur were individually animated...all 2,320,413 of them
Hey, I'm not a gameplay animator, but I am a gameplay animation engineer, so maybe I can provide some insight. In short, yes we animate at either 24 or 30fps and have the game engine interpolate these frames for us, but we also don't exactly have the option to not interpolate. For reference, we use 3D models / animations in our game, and I would expect there are differences for 2D animations. Most games target 60fps as an ideal framerate, but due to a lot of uncontrollable circumstances and how many games are created nowadays, games don't always stay at 60fps consistently. Unlike movies / animations that can ensure that there's a constant framerate, it's not uncommon for games to have framerate drops while loading assets, rendering too many objects, etc. So we have to deal with variable framerates where sometimes you have a frame that took more than 1/30th of a second to generate, or 1/48th of a second, etc. If we played the animations back at a consistent rate, these frames would look strange, often "hitchy" if the timing of the poses doesn't match what the player expects. So instead, we interpolate the animation to generate frames on the fly for what a frame of animation would look like after 1/48th of a second has passed, for example. Further, it's fairly common to not only have to interpolate an animation between authored frames, but we also sometimes have to interpolate between other animations as well. When your character goes from running to jumping, we have to interpolate between the running animation and the jumping animation for our character. Or interpolate from walking to running, crouching to dodging, etc. We generate what we call "animation graphs", which are basically rulesets for how a game engine is to interpolate between different animations depending on what the player is doing or attempting to do. The big difference between our interpolation and the tool being discussed here is that our data that the computer understands is WAY more streamlined for computer algorithms to be applied against. With the "Video Interpolator", a computer has to interpret not only the artist's intent, but also "Is that an arm? An eye? How is the character moving between frame 1 and 2?". In 3D animation, the computer has some sort of understanding of what all these things are, and all the data is organized already in a way that the computer understands (skeletons, models + skinning, etc.). The "Skeleton Interpolator" has a much easier time understanding the motion between frame 1 and 2, and is likely to produce more predictable results. Even then, we have animators author the rules behind skeleton interpolation, and in some situations they will hand-author transitions if they feel that the computer isn't doing a good enough of a job. For the Video Interpolator, I'd agree with quite a few points you present. I think this is a tool that's looking for a purpose, and it's incorrect to either say "This tool has no place in animation throw it away", and "This tool should be used for every animation and it's always better". I could foresee a future where maybe a specific sequence could be authored faster using a video interpolator, or the interpolation could be done for a specific background character whose movement isn't that important to the scene and the author just wants to tell the computer "Make these in-betweens so I can focus on animating the main characters in this shot". The tool would need some knobs to adjust (i.e. source framerate and target framerate), but I'd be interested to see if this tech has a future. However, the simple argument of "Higher framerate = better" is not true; different framerates can convey different atmospheres or emotions, and is not simply a metric of animation quality. If it were, stop-motion animation would be considered "just bad lmao", instead of having some form of charm around the imperfection of creating motion from motionless objects.
Thank you for this, your insight is priceless! And can i say thank you for working with animation engines XDD coding is a torture I wouldn’t wish on anyone
Why are we talking about animating in 60 fps WHEN WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT 140fps!!! GAMERS HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE!!! 160FPS!!! PC ANIMATIONS MASTER RACE!!!
People talking about using there pc AI to animate and saying gamers have seen the future of animation Me agreeing with the video saying how it’s just ruins the artistic intent
You know, it's kinda mind boggling for me. I remember when I was a kid, my old man helped me make a lego stop motion project at 16FPS. Move a piece, take a picture, so on and so forth. I thought it was a pain in the rear. Realizing now that there are people DRAWING frames at higher FPS and that there are people complaining because "24 FPS is outdated"? That's entitlement at its peak.
There is a reason western animation has mostly drifted towards 3DCG. It's less work for the animators, and the heavy work (the rendering) can be done easily by a computer. Standard hand drawn animation is mostly relegated to low budget series, and passion projects. Nothing else. It just takes a lot of time to draw everything, and time is money. And Stop Motion… well one of those gets released once in a blue moon. Mainly because it's even more time consuming than hand drawn animation (and the "filming" part isn't even the bulk of that time sink if you want it to look good at all). Personally, I think it looks the best out of the 3 main styles, but I'm in the minority here.
@@oogenesis agreed, and there are lots of underrated shorts / even MOVIES that didn’t get much attention because they aren’t “live action” or “cool anime looking typo style” I do wish people would just trying animating? 48 frames, PER SECOND is a freaking lot , I mean- that’s redrawing a frame 48 times for just one second , do the math for a 100 second video, it’s a L o t. And I’m still a beginner animator! Ever since I’ve started whenever I see a really good animation I just silently go “:O wow” And I even rewatch it a couple times lol But you learn a new appreciation for animator teams that work month and months on just a possible 5 : 00 minute video- and sometimes clickbait videos get more views then them! *WHERES THE JUSTICE ?!?*
Almost entirely unrelated comment but one thing I love about vinyl records is not that the sound quality is better (because it isn’t). But there is something so wonderful about physically owning the album, being able to watch the needle drop and hear the gentle hiss over the dense plate. It’s so wonderful knowing that you’ve financially endorsed an artist you like and knowing you can actually pick up the album. Like how fricking cool is that?! You can pick up your album!!! While it doesn’t directly apply to animation, knowing the actual passion that went into a project (or at least hard work), adds to your enjoyment. Of course this is entirely subjective. Ps. Honestly I feel like I went entirely off topic here
It is better though, honestly any analog format of music is objectively better than digital because analog is a 1 for 1 recreation of the soundwaves of the original where as digital is only an approximation.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that vinyl isn't the best quality. I can't really argue WHY it's better, cause I'm not educated on the specifics. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable comes along later to explain.
@@ghostsuru8429 both vinyl and electronic are identical sound waves however record has the possibility for the needle to skip over small grooves in the vinyl so overall you are getting just a less consistent sound. But more or less they are identical except for the novelty of actually owning a vinyl, which not only supports your favourite artists but also protects you from the unreliability of streaming apps. But physically they’re basically identical
@@Cowboycomando54tbh im the odd guy that likes Both an digitalized AND physical version of an Song: There is an weird distint feeling that i love about really refined and clear songs, but also the same of them in a more compressed, inexact version of itself.
@@HugoValentineEdits Electronic and vinyl literally can't sound the same. They have different parameters that require different mix and masters. vinyl can only get so loud, while CDs for example can get way louder. Is that really the point though? I'm not going to be listening to Linkin Park on vinyl just as I choose not going to listen to Dark side of the moon on spotify when I have the vinyl. Vinyls have better dynamic range, and digital can just get louder for cheaper.
"Just draw more frames" Watch these guys complain as their favorite anime takes 4 years to finish rather than 1 year cause they told the studio to draw more frames only for the animators to quit and shut down the project
The show I animate for, we animate in Harmony with puppet animation where yes it would be possible to animate on 60fps and just tween everything……but we don’t don’t do that and we still go 24fps because it’s just better…on our wrists XD
@@Logan_but_not if i recall correctly, puppet animation is when your characters are already made with presetparts you can manipulate in both rotation and morphing to make an animation by tweening the different parts, kinda like flash animation i think
Me and my family watched Mulan on Disney+. Me and my sister noticed some real ugly tearing in the animations when there were moderate to a lot of movement. We didn't know why, and after I stumbled upon Noodle's OG video, which I recognized all the types of tearing in his examples! We figured out that the TV was trying to play Mulan, a 1998 2D movie in 60FPS with something called "TruMotion". We turned it off, and the tearing stopped. 2D animation made in 24FPS does NOT look good when a machine is trying to make it 60!!!
That's not only true for that one time I took my switch and put on their TV and I was wondering why Zelda BotW (a 30 fps game) was looking so weird it was smooth but jaggered the image and made me sick in a couple minutes and even switching to a 60 fps game like Smash it was still trying to do something on the image that made movement feel slow/unresponsive/ugly This AI motion thing is really nauseous unless it's a sports broadcast or something recorded from real life not animated
“Calling this a straw man would be like describing Kennedy’s death as a fuckin headache” I don’t know how, but I will work this phrase into my common vocabulary
Hey! Didn’t see any other comments answering this so sorry if it’s been answered already. I’m a game animator and most studios will work in 30 FPS that then gets interpolated at runtime (as the game is being played). Game engines don’t necessarily see animation in frames, but rather in amount of time (like an amount of seconds). This is to support variable frame rates, and so that animations can get blended between and broken out of more easily and quickly. In some occasions, studios will animate in 60 FPS to get higher fidelity in slow motion sequences, or for example in God of War they animated some of the gameplay animation in 60 FPS to get more readable arcs in the attacks and more fidelity in the VFX attached to the animation, like the streaks of fire coming off the a weapon. Love the video and discussion, thanks Noodle!
Wow, I didn't know that game engines could do that, now I understand how you guys fit that many animations with different qualities and frame rates in just a few GB. And now I have goosebumps when I wonder how long it takes to make a good game engine. F for devs.
It's definitely a lot different when in a real time combat scenario in a challenging game, you're not exactly meticulously pondering the fluidity of fine background animation.
My friend calls animators, like Odd1sOut lazy because the characters are ‘too simple’ for 1month per upload. I’d like to see him make a 24fps 10min video, which is about 14,400 pictures.
I'm a 3D animator and about that animation in games question... When animating in 3D you set up the keyframes and the software interpolates the rest, so rendering something at 24fps takes the same effort as rendering something at 1200fps (except you know, that it takes x50 more to render for the PC and the fact that the higher the fps, the easier it is to spot mistakes in the animation). But it's nothing like those interpolation IA programs that work over finished 2D animation, you have total control over it with toons of tools like time curves and it actually works really well since you are using and actual 3D scene and not a bunch of still images. You still need to work with it, if you just set up keyframes and interpolate it will end up looking awful and super robotic. Interpolation in 3D is a super powerful tool, but it's just that, a tool, that you actually need to learn how to use. It's a lot more complex than that but I hope I explained myself decently ;)
honestly, i'd REALLY like to see Noodle do an interview of some kind with a 3d animator, cause there's almost as more that's different between the two than there is similar, and i kinda wanna get his take ont things... i wonder if Marty would be willing to point him towards someone?
I still come back to this video and the follow up for the halo remaster like every 6 months. (I also rewatch your other vids too) These ones just hit different though. I personally would love to hear more opinion pieces from you. You are very well spoken while also being crude and funny. This channel really deserves much more recognition
As a little note. I'm not an animator, heck I can't even draw properly (even a stickman ends up disproportionate). I never took much time to appreciate animation aside from "hehe cartoon pretty". I had been exposed to the 60 FPS interpolation videos and just thought, "Heh, looks good, sometimes a bit trippy but maybe it's just me" then stumbled upon your video. After that I tried to look a bit more into the animation I was consuming daily on youtube, and started to notice a lot more details! So thanks a lot for helping me appreciate more things I was already appreciating!
Here's how game animation work: We do not animate on frames we animate on poses (at least for 3D Animations), ofc nowadays we try to use motioncapture when possible but if we are to actually animate like an arm moving, we will just place the arm in the inital position, then move the joints to wherever we want and mark that as a keyframe, it's not technically a frame it's just the position of the elbow or any other joint; the movement between the two keys will just be interpolated by the algorithm. It's not AI it's just a simple algorithm that determines the shortest path, what that means is We can't just take the initial position and then the last position and hope to get a natural interpolation as a result, that just wouldn't happen, we need to dictate for every joint in an arm or leg or whatever it's gradual movement following the desired path point-to-point and the algorithm fills the gaps. IE. Say a character has one arm up into the air and I want it to go down and touch the torso, If I just input these two keys the software will likelly make the arm just go straight down and possibly go through itself depending on how the rules are defined for joint movement. Instead I need at least to make a third frame in the middle with the arm extended outwards meaning the arm makes a circular movement instead of just going straight down. For an actual animation to feel nearly natural, ofc you'll need more keys to properly draw the movement, then you can just adjust speed. 2D games follow the exact same formula 2D video animation follows
In FAR less words. Yes. We use interpolation. But it's not a post process interpolation, it's part of the animation process and we have full control over it.
Not an animator but I've done some for games as a student, the more keyframes = the more memory the animation takes and can even lead to performance issues, and thats not great for optimization reasons. Marcos knows what they talking about, if it's hand-animated it's animated on poses and only tweaked where necessary. From what I know about motion capture it makes a keyframe every frame, then someone goes in and cuts down the complexity to make it usable while retaining the realistic feel of it, thats my best guess at least. so tldr, games arent animated on specific intervals like 2s, just wherever they're needed :)
The only time I've seen interpolation not used in game animation is Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball FigherZ because those games are specifically trying to look like 2d animation
This is so baffling to me. You don’t look at paintings like The starry night and say, well it’s just a mess of colours it would look better if it was photorealistic. Same goes with animation. Appreciate the work that’s gone into it and enjoy it. The world is already full of enough filters I don’t need it on my cartoons as well. If the FPS is increased its looks trash every time compared to the original.
"You don’t look at paintings like The starry night and say, well it’s just a mess of colours it would look better if it was photorealistic." Unfortunately, a lot of people actually do feel that way. The sad truth is that the majority of people just have no taste.
AI is for giving me a 25/50 on my Spanish homework not for animating highly complex and well thought out animation I am not an animator. I do play guitar. If someone took a song i was playing and strummed Em the entire time and called it "enhanced" or "remastered" I would shit myself and jump down a flight of stairs.
@@JustASinner you do realize different cameras can record at different frame rates right? There's no "30fps default". Noodle's camera could go up to 60fps, maybe even 240 in lower resolutions. Or maybe the video is recorded in only 24 and nobody realized because of the lack of rapid motion?
As a gamer, I know that you will drink water somewhere this week, trust me I may have miscalculated some people's self degrading willpower but I'm still right, I just used a different walkthrough for a different ending route of reality, my IQ is still at gamer levels of smart
"You should just animate with more frames!" I'm not a professional but uh, animation is an extraordinarily long process. Companies are already working their animators to death to make movies and shows, they can't afford to pay more people to do unnecessary work. Not to mention that when an animator says "24fps", it doesn't usually mean that there are 24 different frames in a second: to show movement in an exaggerated and life-like way, they use principles such as "slow-in, slow-out" which involves choosing which images stay for how many frames. More frames is slower, less is faster. Without principles like this, all you see is a static motion - it may look really cool, but I'm willing to bet that once this "new tech" is a little less new and interesting, people won't be as interested in it anymore. Also, AI will NEVER take over animation jobs because an AI could never truly understand how to make animations lifelike. Yes, there is a degree of learning an AI can do, but it's entirely limited to what YOU teach it to do. Even if AI could make animations, you would still need people to teach the AI how to make new animations in new ways because an AI can't learn from actual people or experiences. Animators aren't against new tech either - There are a lot of new and extremely useful tools that make animation a lot easier to do - but it still requires a lot of work on the animator's end.
I'm no AI expert, but... No I think a sufficiently designed AI could replicate a human brain if it has to in order to make art. It wouldn't work with current AI technology but I think it is also possible for an AI now to make it's own unique art style. It might not be consistent or anything but with significant training it could grasp different types of art and design new interpretations of those art styles. AI could make unique art, but it is probably far too expensive to consider at this point in time.
@@RigoVids Neural Networks, as we know it, learn from giving pre-existing data (such as images and other media) and figures out how said media is, by finding patterns and relations to the other pieces of the dataset. With how we do it, Neural Networks won't be able to create something fully "unique" pieces of art. It will basically just figure out how the art in the dataset works and copy off of that. Now, you could give the dataset many many different styles of art but it won't make a combined version of those styles because it won't be able to connect the two together with any patterns. Instead it'll learn from the styles and be able to spew out different styles of art per generation. Now on the "replicating a human brain" part, the human brain is much too complex to fully replicate. Not only does the brain have about 100 billion neurons, you'd need to learn from those neurons and have a large enough dataset of the brain to truly be able to "replicate" it. For the idea of "making unique art" that would have to have a large dataset of the brains of artists, specifically when they are doing art. Which means not just only 100 billion neurons but now times that by the dataset size AND how long the training data would be, this would reach values way too large to calculate as every person is different and has different ways the brain functions to drawing art.
@@NetyashaRoozi I feel if humanity doesn't kill itself for a good while, AI technology would probably reach a point where it may "replicate" the mind. However, it feels that it would be more likely that AI would build a unique mind that is quite different from a human one rather than copy the human mind. This unique mind may or may not be capable of unique art, but making unique art is probably something that will take hundreds of years for it to do. AI would take up art way after it takes over more simple jobs that don't need very much creativity. Trying to use AI for that kind of stuff right now is really stupid and will only be an insult to the artist. Even using it in the near future will probably only end up failing miserably. We probably only should attempt it far in the future.
As a musician, the nightcore joke literally had me spit out my drink, it was so funny I love it. I can't believe people who have never tried animation not even once think they can tell animators about their job. Keep up the videos I love your content 💘
Audio engineer here and I had the same reaction lol cant say hes wrong Also, interpolating isnt the same thing as autotune, its basically the same thing as nightcore
I wanna see a piece of animation where only a single character is animated at 60 FPS. Like, everybody else is animated at 24, but GREASE MAN slides around at 60
@@Mr-Moron well actually you’re a jellyfish-like being operating within a chassis of bones which has been surrounded and filled with biological matter.
I am a sound designer for animation. I have opted to understand this. Interpolation is not designed or beneficial for any animation projects. It does not improve anything, for the animation/production because it can end up screwing with a lot of things, my job in specific is very time-based and visual feedback. If it lacks charity it's hard to know what sounds to add into the design. Sound designers hate animated interpolation because its lacks the actual visual timing with sound. I think it is a great tool for live-action slow-motion footage at an already high frame rate because when you are shooting in a raw format like persay a Red 8k sensor at 60fps, each image is clean and brand new, interpolation smooths the jittery effect of slow motion. The reality is that animation is not film. It's not raw and it's not animated in 60. And I challenge any person that thinks it can be done to actually do it and then make a statement. See them in 6 years and god as my witness will still be out faster than Yandere simulator.
Also, fun fact: Most interpolation AIs (Such as DAIN and whatever the hell Nvidia's solution is called) are trained on real-world footage and videogame scenes not animation Which fucks up, well, a lot of things
@Keshuel this entire video is about responding to people who actually enjoy interpolation. People can prefer or just enjoy them, but he explains how he sees it as a flawed perspective.
honestly... to any gamer who uses this as a valid point... "It took you 5000 hours to get that rank? Wow, now do it again, but it will take you 12500 hours instead because it will look cooler"
There was actually a proof of concept animation a friend showed me that used 24fps for everything but the villain who they used AI to increase to 60, it gave the bad guy this really freaky inhuman aspect where he seemed to move and act in ways that no natural being should.
@@jackofroge Its almost like an ARTISTIC INTENT is like, part of the art itself innit. Its so refreshing to see the rant and the tech inspire people to create as opposed to stagnate. Honestly, ketchup on a gourmet steaks too much of an understatement, it's more like spray painting incoherently on another artists finished lifelike painting and claiming it is better. Horridly offensive to the artist, and while hey it MIGHT be considered artistic in its own way, its a dick move on a whole other level that I would happily team combo clothesline that asshat. And to the original comment, thats so fucking awesome, make sure your friend doesn't shelve that idea.
@@henryplumb5200 I mean... It is the same thing as the "ketchup on steak" thing. Think of it like this: Steak and burgers are both beef. It's fine to put ketchup on the HAMBURGER, because that's what was intended. It's the opposite case for the steak. If the artist WANTS their animation to be interpolated, its fine. THEY'LL do it. If it isn't interpolated already, there is no reason to do so as a consumer.
@@jackofroge I mean, I didnt say the metaphor didnt work, its more that spraypaint is a tool, but using it on a work without xonsideration of the intent is ruining the artistry of the piece that the artist has been working on. 😊
This is basically the same thing with "Slowed + Reverb" music. People take a song that was good enough for itself and just change two things using a computer (which they probably didn't do manually) and call it "peak music". And I know someone will say "What about remixes?" remixes do have a manual human input that change the song and make it sound different than the original, just like in animations and the problems that you mentioned.
About game animations: Short answer is that while games render at 60fps, people aren't animating at 60. 3D models are driven by bones in virtual space. Similarly, objects like characters, cameras, NPCs or any object are being moved on game logic running at 60fps. Because these are just things happening in 3D space, a computer can reasonably interpolate the frames between. Where animating is concerned, interpolation is a feature by default. You can get away with a mere 4 keyframes per second and it'll still look good. You can move and add them at will for any part that needs it, building up the animation as you go, and it'll smooth it out as you need. As for actual frame-by-frame 2D animations. everything you've said applies. Too much work to bother with anything past 24fps.
Yeah, basically this. - approved by game dev Predone cutscenes are a little different, hence the push for in game cutscenes in the industry as of late. As for the video, mmm I could salt a stake with it coming off the comments and Noodle :D
It also gets complicated because most modern games update each system at a different time. Since while you want to update the render at 60fps, there is no reason that game logic (AI, etc) or things like physics simulation need to run that fast... If you are rendering the game at 60fps, and you have a falling ball, you are not re-calculating physics every single frame -- So you need to constantly interpolate/predict it forward in time (on the render thread or something like that) so that it looks right at the higher render framerate. That's possible because 3D engines have vectors for everything and know where and how fast it's going. For character animation, it's usually possible to choose what happens; either the bone transforms get interpolated every single render frame OR it doesn't (that is usually desirable for cutscenes for similar content). So long story short, not everything is animated by keyframes and even when it is, game animators might not actually have any control on how it plays back.
@@longinus665 Actually, the way unity handles it, is that there is a seperate loop in another thread, that handles physics, which makes it mostly independant from framerate
8:13 yeah, this is true. I saw a guy in my school watching a 60 fps anime fight scene. I told him that it looks bad, and was like “ok,” so we tried to find fight scenes at 24, and they just do not exist.
To answer the comment "Do 3D video game animators animate in 60FPS?": I've been told that 3D Viewmodel Animators for games actually animate at a standard 30FPS, especially for First Person, and the game engine "interpolates" it into whatever FPS the engine can hit. Now, I quoted "interpolation" because in this case, an engine is actually calculating vertices and points of data in a 3D space to direct where two points set in 2 keyframes are and what can be inbetween them. These keyframes can also contain data about whether to ease-in or ease-out or even snap to a keyframe and all the other quirky stuff. This is EXTREMELY different than an AI doing guesswork in a 2D frame-by-frame animation, which contains almost no info of important animation functions and principles in points of a 2D space because it's mostly hand drawn. The exception of animating in higher FPS is when a game has features like slow motion or features that require precise frame knowledge. For example, the Killing Floor Series, known for their bullet-time gameplay, requires animations done in higher FPS to compensate being slowed down. Certain fighting games also utilize higher FPS animations for more precise reaction windows by players. Animation in higher frames is completely fine when video games require reaction and timing. But in filmic media, the depiction of the art you're supposed to enjoy at a reasonable and watchable speed is fine enough. Great vid btw.
Before I speak, I'm a dumbass who can't draw/animate and I just like when video games go brrrr. Could one animate something in a game engine, and then the game engine works its magic and high framerate go brrr? It's probably way more complicated than that.
@@LostParadise_ also a dumbass here but that sounds hard on a gpu, because thats a lot of data every second if youve gone an animated every frame Also itd take a lot more work especially for a big game
@@LostParadise_ Video game animations are usually done with a general 3D program like Maya/3DSMax/Blender before being imported into a game engine. Animations on a model can be "hardcoded", or baking in 3D terms, into the model for interpolation and other fun stuff like blending two animations together. The engine handles all this interpolation within itself and is actually a lot less taxing than you think. I might preface this as I am a beginner viewmodel animator. I've been hearing that different games may do different methods to put animations into their games. But usually when there's a 3D animation from a program that's involved, it's usually baked in and ready for the engine to make use.
@@youtubewontletmehaveaonewo2471it's a lot less taxing than you think. Game engines have progressed to that point where real-time calculation on hundreds of thousands, if not, millions, of points of data can be done with a fraction of GPU and CPU power. This is, of course, in relation to today's hardware. Usually, animation's not the most taxing part of a game model but it's model topology/textures/optimization.
It’s funny how all those people who have probably never animated or even made anything outside of grade school is telling artistic people how the best way something it made. Without realizing how hard it is.
well the truth is...that's the way the market works, if the market have a collectively bad/wrong taste about something, as long as there's a huge number of people got the same take as that taste, they will be the market... which sucks... it's like, being a majority doesn't translate to being correct, it's a 2 different thing
The people that are saying hfr animation looks better are probably the same people who said "I wish I could draw" whenever they see you doodling in class
I know! its the absolute most entitled thing ive ever seen! It's the client commissioning you and saying you should do it for free! If you think it's worth nothing, then do it your fucking self! God i hate these people, but you're 100% right
People seem to miss that your point was "stop taking other people's work, putting it through an AI blender, and claiming its automatically better cos the numbers are higher"
Why are people's taste such a concern? He sounds like a classical guitarist complaining that some people find the electric guitar to be a better instrument, or a rap artist complaining that people enjoy mumble rap. It's a rant about taste, a futile exercise
@@bN_isheeere you know views aren't an award given right? it's a counter of how many people wanted to watch that. complaining about views is complaining that people like something.
About videogame animations, I can give some input as an amateur dev, although I have no clue about AAA standard so ask someone else. The tools I use are Blender and Unity (yeah I know, cringe) mostly, and both programs render an animation at 60 fps usually unless your computer is a potato or the project is very poorly optimized. I animate using key frames (the best way I can explain it is that the tools can save the location of certain parts of an object within 3D space at a certain point in time), interpolating the frames, and then tweaking the result by adding more key frames for individual actions (for example lifting a foot a bit higher during a kick for more energy in the motion) and/or directly manipulating the animation curves. TLDR, 3D animators usually aren't animating frame-by-frame, we're animating pose-by-pose. I assume that if the animation is going to be viewed at another frame rate (say an animated movie or a stylized videogame), you can set the program to render the animation at that frame rate and then adjust the animation accordingly, or make the animation from scratch using that render setting. Videogames that use sprites (2D drawings) have to animate sprite-by-sprite, which is kinda like frame-by-frame only animations are are going to be triggered by script or player input, not the frames-per-second format a pen-and-paper animator would need to worry about. 2D isn't my thing, so maybe I'm not giving the whole picture here. As for mo-cap, I have no idea. Apparently UA-camr Russian Badger (who uses mo-cap w/ Source) can tweak what he captures with traditional 3D animation and in-engine physics interactions. Basically: 48 frames per second doesn't double our workload like it would a 2D animator, instead anything below or above 60 FPS becomes something to account for when animating, and more complex motions will require more key frames and animation curve edits (basically more data) to make look good.
3D modeler here: we rig models with bones (think an articulated doll) and then pose them to animate. This is automatically interpolated by the game engine. The reason we do this is for flexibility. Here’s some examples: - some games have a walking animation and a running animation, and code the game to mix between the two depending on how far you push the joystick - going in and out of animations is easier. If you move a character left or right, you can interpolate between the two motions - if you animate a character doing something like picking something up, you can make the animation additive so that the animation will work no matter whether the character is sitting, standing, running etc. you can also multiply variables so if they pick up a large object the animation will scale - running up and down a slope may require telling the computer to lift the feet up higher or lower than normal - frame rate changes So basically, flexibility is the reason! In games where you can do almost anything, you can never truly guess everything a player will do or every angle they’ll look from. So instead, animations are made to be scalable and additive for that reason. The position and rotation of bones is recorded in hard numbers. In fact, there’s a lot more math involved than you’d think. It’s not any harder or easier than 2D hand animation, just different, with different requirements (games need to run at 60fps so players can have appropriate time to react and also not get motion sick). Some stylized games (genshin, honkai, guilty gear) will have capped frame rates on their animations. But that’s an illusion. The game still runs at 60fps, but they take more care to manually cap the frames of character animations to have that level of control and intent you talked about. Sorry about the ramblings, I hope they made sense at all! Math is really the name of the game here, but it’s a tool like any other that requires skill and intent
Thank you for explaining, I seriously can't believe people dumb down all the work you do to pressing a button and applying it to AN INTIERLY DIFFERENT MEDIUM which is 2d animation, thanks for the knowledge
Yeah gamers nowadays are weird man, imagine saying other game is shit bc yours have 40whk hd graphics bullshit on the fruits and some others have low poly grapes Games are good if it's good, you dont have to shit on other people's games
Black Flag was the last AC game I bought, and I was baffled that Ed Kenway was the third from the left. I underestimated how much they've been milking that cow.
@@Denielle-VGtaClips I remember from years ago, the footage of him getting shot looked blurry, but it always looked to me like Kennedy's brains leaked out like pasta-covered spaghetti.
Yeah. Gamers actually have seen the future. Matchmaking queues that make it take longer to get into a game than just using a server browser. Photogrammetry models, unnecessary high resolution textures that cause ridiculous load times, soulless brand-characters in free-to-suffer games engineered to sell us skins and battle passes. Completely nonsensical game balance. The destruction of the "clan" and the evaporation of communities in favour of massive unthinking "follower" swarms. If you were there in the past you can't forgive this, we want what we had in the past back. Anyone who calls themselves a gamer unironically and takes pride in their hobby has to realise that the average quality has gone way the fuck down. The obsession with 4K, billions of polygons onscreen at once, 5v5 rankers, and microtransactions has trashed gaming just like the cartoon/animation industry. If you disagree - find me a modern spongebob, ren and stimpy, futrama/simpsons, show me the modern disney animated films. There are 1,100+ dislikes on this video from people who don't believe things have gotten terrible. So let's hear it from them.
"Do the animators who work in gaming companies animate in 60 fps or is it just interpolated?" Well, if you actually ever used 3d animation tools, it's the latter, they animate with key frames and use different mathematical interpolations (e.g. Linear interp or bezier interp) to move the skeletons around. Then, in game, they utilize the engine's tools to add additional, real time physics animations, especially for hair, clothes, and boobs.
In my own experience with 3D, you animate as much as you need to fix the jank. Basically, you do some poses, let the computer interpolate, then go back in and fix inbetween. For an example: I did this animation where a character spin kicks around using her foot as a pivot point; so every part of the body except that one foot was done in forward kinematics because inverse was better for keeping the foot where it should be... but it kept trying to rotate the opposite way of the rest of the motion when just let go to a target pose, so I had to manually set pretty much every single one of the 60 frames, while the rest of the body was keyed as low as 1 or 2 per second, so *technically* I animated everything on 1s, but I didn't really, which makes it hard to put a real number on it like doing it on 2s or 4s... dunno if that makes sense. Also: in retrospect, I think I question the decision of using inverse kinematics there and might redo it with full-forward ones at some point.
This process also future proofs 3D animation, as a higher framerate doesn't need any new data to fill in the gaps. Using a data set allows the same animation to play and time out correctly at 30, 60, 120 and even higher framerates... Just wanted to expand on the good point you made because like... I'm a nerd and find it fascinating
It's the same kind of thing as "you're depressed just be happy". how is it this difficult to understand that guess what people aren't magic and can't do anything if you try hard enough. So unless you just start flying through pure willpower you're point is stupid.
i animated my first-ever short film in 60fps that was really, really dumb for a lot of reasons but at the time i was like "UGUGUH I MAKE SMOOTH :)))))"
When animating for a Video Game you're not animating set pixels, you're animating with vectors. You animate at whatever FPS you do (personally, I usually use 24 because it's the default in blender) and when you import that into a game engine, it will smoothly transition between the keyframes using the anim curves you set up for your animation. As there is not a "it looks like this on this frame and then like this on the next frame" you don't have issues with the animation's over all runtime being dependent on frame rate. Of course this is only for the majority of 3D games, sprite based games are the most obvious example but different methods do exist.
A lot of people missed the entire point. The point isn’t “higher FPS equals cringe” it’s that if you have an animation at 24 FPS and you artificially change it to 60 using AI, it makes any form of movement hard to track, look janky, and ultimately more confusing. As a viewer our brain can fill in the gaps of animation, but the AI is not capable of doing that accurately and ends up making the visual equivalent to taking a beautiful pizza and then throwing a gallon of Orange Juice and Milk on it. It makes look it ugly, to the point where even if I had the original video at the highest definition available, it can still make me think it’s at 240p or 144p in those small moments. Overall, it doesn’t “improve the quality” in any big way. The most I can give the AI is that if it’s a very VERY small movement, it can interpolate that well. But even then it still messes up in some ways.
Those people didn't listen to anything he said. Many of them had this "Bruh, I'm smarter than you bruh" attitude but didn't know a thing about what they were talking about. That's not criticism. That's prejudice. Bias. And others were "Bruh, my opinion is what counts bruh, no one cares about you, bruh". To use AI interpolation like that is the laziest way of "improving" animation and people call it progress?! So progress is being lazy instead of working each detail? Like... try painting a Mona Lisa on a 210x297 mm piece of paper with a wall pencil and you will see how there is no precision. You are lacking the small pencil for small details and most important of all, a sensitive eye and imagination. Interpolation AI, as used in those videos, have none of those. Like Noodle said, interpolation can look great if used without laziness, if you allow me to paraphrase him. And then those people accused ANIMATORS of being lazy?! Can someone tell them to look on the fricking mirror, please?
That's the funny part about it: The less information you have to work with, the more your brain does the heavy-lifting by filling in those gaps. But when you have a computer fill in the gaps, what would've otherwise been subconscious now sticks out like a sore thumb pulled out of the sink's garbage disposal.
@@NovanByworks Maybe that's the reason those people who completely missed Noodle's point, missed the point. They don't have enough brainpower, and that's why they appreciate lazy AI-interpolated 60fps videos, lol
@@Wylie288 dude. My guy. He wasn't arguing against 60fps animation. He's specifically talking about ai interpolation, i.e. taking something that a team of professionals decided to animate at 24fps and plugging it into a shitty algorithm to get something approximating 60fps. If you actualy watch his original video he goes out of his way to say 60fps has its place.
So, there are still people who don't get that the framerate isn't the problem, but the interpolation fucking up something that was made in a different framerate, huh? If you want something to be animated in 60 fps, then fuckin' go for it, animate it in 60 fps (if you don't die of exhaustion first). But if you take something that isn't in 60 and crush its bones into fine enough powder to string it out to 60, it's gonna look off, wrong, and awful.
All these commenters do not understand this. It’s not frame rates that’s the issue, it’s the interpolation. Some of the best work in the world is in 16, 24 or 30 FPS. The FPS is for the animators, not the viewer. Also, the gamers thing is 100% true. We are responsible for crunching and (some) issues in games. We always demand improvements, even if there doesn’t need to be any. One of my favorite series, Pokémon, used 60 FPS for RSE and FRLG, but then switched to 30 FPS for DPP and HGSS and beyond. They “DOWNGRADED” to make the games better. If that doesn’t tell you something, you are a lost cause.
@@firehawk5962 do you have a brain, because you seem to find arguing on a UA-cam comment section the only way to relive the stress that you're hard-stuck bronze in overwatch because you refuse to communicate with your team and when you do you sound like a banshee screaming infinitely because of how high pitched your voice is, if you got closer to your microphone I could probably smell your BO because of how you don't take a shower for months straight even during the summer times.
Interpolation is an issue because the technology's still new and the stuff we have currently are all tech demos. What I really don't get are all the "insulting to artists" comments. Was it insulting to artists when Macromedia Flash was released? Was it an insult to artists when films started to use 3D to replace hand-drawn animation? Was it an insult to artists when cel animation was replaced by scanners? In each case, technology caused some people to lose their jobs, but it opened up the market to more people. It's really ironic that Noodle, someone profiting off of advances in commercial animation and film technology can call new AI advancement an "insult to artists". By that logic, using Premiere Pro or some equivalent software is an insult to film editors. Using Audacity is an insult to recording studios. Using Illustrator or Coral Draw is an insult to artists etc. This is a new technology, and it will only get better, potentially allowing people that have limited ability in animation to make their own animated films. Will it challenge current day inbetweeners and traditional animators? Yeah it would. But I'm sure people like Noodle are happy to not be sitting in a booth developing negatives all day. Technology grows, jobs get lost, new ones get created. It's that simple.
For people saying it's just lazy to not animate at 60, I recommend looking into the story of The Thief and the Cobbler. The genius behind it insisted on animating on ones the entire time and the animation is gloriously fluid and gorgeous, but it was so time consuming and so expensive that he could never consistently work on it because he just didn't have enough money to pay the army of animators it took to do it in a reasonable amount of time. As a result, the movie never got finished. Instead, it was aborted when some other company forced him to sell the rights, booted him off the project and quickly and lazily finish it, chopping out several scenes that he spent years working on. Yes, it would be nice if animators could be allowed to make animated films at the highest quality, with no shortcuts, at the maximum possible number of frames, but economics is, unfortunately, a factor that makes that impossible. It's not laziness to animate the way they do now. They're working with the time and money constraints and the techniques developed over decades of work have found a way to make that compromise look amazing. Please don't insult the hard work of people who've spent their lives perfecting their craft by saying, "Oh, they're just lazy because they won't do it the way we want it to be." You people have no god damned idea what you're talking about.
@@Deemee-ed 30 years. An entire generation. The recobbled cut version at least shows us what it would have been if he'd been properly able to finish it, but he just was never going to be able to because it was too expensive and time consuming. It's so sad to think about.
I don’t know a lot about animation, but the point that you brought up about the gourmet food and ketchup, I really like. It’s like if a game developer said “I would recommend this game on a lower fps and lower fov for the effect” , I’m gonna trust that. Keep up the good work 👍
I took a 3d animation class in high school. Being a GAMER, when I first heard that we'd animate in 24 fps, I was like, what? Those are peasant numbers. Then I realized I had to make all the key frames myself, and I was suddenly happy about the 24 fps. I didn't even have key frames on every frame. I'm about the most basic animator out there and even I get it.
Yep I think this is the reason most people got mad, they think he is saying "60fps is bad!!" and not "60fps interpolation that shitty kids apply to already existing 2d animation is bad."
I have to assume The Community was given a Clockwork Orange treatment, being forced to watch shoddy upsampling until they develop a Pavlovian response that causes them to cry tears of blood if the frames aren’t sixty+.
3:48 I always loved the “Just animate more frames” argument cause you can tell when it comes from people who don’t know animation. I used to do animation when I was like, 11 (used Pivot but didn’t really stick to it) and it takes so much longer to do frame after frame after frame cause you gotta be more and more precise with each frame otherwise it looks weird whereas you have a little more room to move (get it?) with less frames per second.
What pisses me off the most about every comment saying "you're just too lazy" is that I am absolutely positive not a single one has made an animation before
I didnt make animation (only if you count the one I did with my Nintendo ds) but I think that telling animators are lazy is just bs I bet they cant sit hours on there desk drawing the same character over and over just for 15 seconds of the thing appearing on screen
I've made a few flip books in my life. and that shits hard as fuck to make sure nothing just jumps, and keeping it all smooth with eachother. Can't imagine needing to make a flip book that lasts 20 minutes let alone hours.
Making this argument is the surest way for someone to announce themselves as an arrogant prick who dosen't understand anything about what they are saying yet speaks as if speaking from knowledge and experience, who doesn't understand the colossal amount of work involved and is unappreciative as a result, expecting nothing but the most pristine and premium content to be fed uninteruptedly into their mouth, content to fill the container that they are. It is intoxicatingly arrogant, self-centered, selfish, unappreciative, and willfully ignorant. EDIT: Entitled, that's the word I'm looking for. Like baby birds, nakes and blind and flightless, opening their mouths wide open to the sky, waiting for food to drop inside and asking for more.
I get what you are saying, but i think the, "i'd like to see you do better" argument is kinda shit; Because you can say that about anything; Heck, movie directors bring that argument when reviewers give them a low score and say things like, "Reviewers dont make movies, so they can't give criticize me"
@@ivancerecer5758 It also depends. Like the chef argument, they can say something since everyone eats and have the knowledge of what a good food taste like. People who dont even know the basic rules of animation can't be taken seriously. Their eyes aren't even trained to know exactly what they're seeing. Heck, I can't speak for music when I can't even tell what instrument I'm hearing - I only have a personal taste and hating a genre while saying it's objectively the worst kind of music doesn't really make me right.
![Smoother animation ≠ Better animation [read description]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_KRb_qV9P4g/mqdefault.jpg)
gamers aren't oppressed but they should be
Am gamer, can confirm
Am a gamer here, fucking exterminatus us.
bring an end to gamerkind PUT ME ON THE CROSS BOSS
I am going to start a campaign to end all gamers.
@@Iuseen idea, Gaming Convention, nuke.
Who is James Baxter? sounds like a gamer
Games Hackster
He is
The ebic gamer James baxter
That’s pretty epic!
gamer momento
dude james baxter is my fucking hero
What are you doing with less likes in this comment section than I have?
Damn that first guy , I'll get u next time.
@@silence.9376 owned
james Baxter CAN AND WILL defeat jiiren.
Jaaames Baaxterrr
So as an animator and a gamer should I feel lazy or insulated
insulazyed
Also hi
Both
But that's impossible! If you're a gamer you must hate animators and be a stupid, mean person. It's a paradox!
Both, cuz why not?
based
Not sure if anyone's gonna see this on an old video, but game developer here
Game animations do have a base frame rate (usually 30 fps, unless it's an Arc Sys case) but the game engine sees the seconds rather than the frames. You can animate a 60 frame animation at 30 fps, but the game engine will see "This animation is 2 seconds" and show it at the game's current frame rate. I've both made my own games (small indie prototype projects, but they're in 3D) and I've made the Master Form mod for KH3, and the frame rate of KH3's (and my own) animations are 30 fps (a lot of times, individual animation files will have a setting to actually set the animation frame rate and interpolation will take over if needed, so you got that part right). Please keep in mind that this is the standpoint from a 3D dev, not 2D
finally a answer thank you
@@_RETR01 Too bad no one's gonna see this, though (except you, clearly)
Thanks for the info
For 2D, there are polygonal games that animate more or less the same as 3D games, but pixel animation is nowhere close.
First, you gotta differentiate between the frames and the frame rates. Mario's run cycle in Super Mario Bros 2 animates very quickly, but it consists of 2 frames looping. Cuphead was made with traditional cel animation, mostly on 2s, but in game those poses don't necessarily run at 12fps.
Then you have things like fighting games that are all over the place. A jump kick could consist of a single pose, but it's designed to seamlessly transition into other animations such as a jump block or a landing. Combos or special moves in the same game could easily have 24 frames.
I guess a good baseline is a modern pixel platformer will usually have 6-12 frames per animation, but those animations could play anywhere from 6 to 60fps depending on the effect the animator is going for.
This is accurate. (also a game developer (sort of...) )
*Your channel has given me a newfound love for brown cardboard...*
Hey Jess! Love your channel
Is there other kinds of cardboard? I thought it was all brown
NO! NO! NO! Many people say I am sick in the head. NOOOO!!!! I don't believe them. But there are so many people commenting this stuff on my videos, that I have 1% doubt. So I have to ask you right now: Do you think I am sick in the head? Thanks for helping, my dear jess
god i love cardboard and boxes
True
“Sadly not everybody alive today is James Baxter”
*sad not James Baxter noises*
@@lemons2246 he sounds like someone who would backstabs me
*sad alive noises*
Now am I James Basker?
@Whimsy don't worry if we work hard enough and have the passion we can be equals to him, however hard it may be
I can now see another horse from adventure time that goes around sadly saying "not jaaammess Baxter"
wonder how interpolated paper and cardboard would look like
Yea same here
Yea
I mean, the AI is designed for live action, so it would technically work on this. Idk how good it would look but it *technically* would work.
Do it.
i prefer not to try it
"The artist's intent doesn't matter" could be shorthand for "I've never held a colored pencil in my entire life".
Lmao
*Asmongold sweating furiously*
bro tattled on themselves so hard with that one
@@AluminumFusion22 asmongold is like the elon musk of gaming and shit takes regarding gaming
@@coocato He's got good takes, he's got bad takes. Like everyone. I'd say he's just your average human being who was lucky enough to come on top of the mess that is twitch. He is no role model, he is no negative example of negative examples. He is a human, and as with other humans, one can agree or disagree. I sometimes stumble on clips of his, and at times I find myself agreeing, at times I could come up with an entire thesis against his opinion.
The mo-cap argument is so funny because it's not like animators don't go in and tweak everything to hell and back afterwards.
do you work in mo-cap animation?
they definitely didnt for that donkey kong show tho
Wasn’t there hecka mocap done for fight scenes in The Clone Wars but then they went back and fixed it to make it fit in with the rest of the animation? That would be kind of like using mocap as a tool (just like Noodle said lol)
@@RyandBurtson they do that for pretty much everything mo-cap from what I know. raw mo-cap data always has little twitches and bugs here and there, so for most big productions, even movie productions they do a manual pass over the whole thing
@@luminomancer5992 I used to think that it was raw data. Found out from Corridor Digital this exact thing.
I honestly _still_ don't get how people can look at interpolated 60 fps footage of something made for between 12 to 24 and think it looks better with the weird, smooth movement between poses that hold for just a LITTLE too long and think that it looks good. It looks more noticeably staggered to me, and that's before even considering artistic intent.
Really it'll only look good if the media in question was made for interpolation.
Not poor taste, broke taste
I agree, but as a gamer I agree.
It gets even worse when you add words onto the frames, they get all smudged...and sad.
I feel as interpreted videos have no personality anymore once they do it.
Ok
I agree, but Imagine if a mad lad ACTUALLY painfully animated something at 60fps. Like every single little frame LMAO, shit would look mad silky! Artist would probably just dissolve after though.
Animation can be whatever i want *snaps*
Oh god now that you said it that sounds like a huge pain. Let's say that it's a 25 minute video. So 60 frames per second is 3,600 frames a minute so a 25 minute episode is 90,000 frames. Let's say there are 12 episodes so that will be 1,080,000 frames! Imagine animating that many frames. Of course the time will vary depending on the intro or ending but still, that's a lot of frames. By the way I love your vids Calebcity
@@ExpiredCloud tf? Ima commission 4 arms from Ben 10 for this one
@@ProdBy.JayLo3 oh no not four arms
true lmao they would use over 9000% of there power
I love how you physically printed and glued each comment onto a little cutout instead of just overlaying them on screen. That’s commitment to the craft.
And censored out the names with sharpie, instead of doing so before printing them.
@@trianglemoebius I think what’s funnier is that the sharpie is printed.
*As a gamer*
dani will you ever fucking upload
@@Bewroad he did like a week ago what
As a professional gamer that has played 3 competitions...
@@Bewroad Bruh he's working hard. If you complain at Dani your not a true boner.
Haha 69 likes
Anyone who says that animators are “lazy” for not animating in 60fps have no idea what they’re talking about. 60fps would almost triple the budget and time it would take to make ANYTHING animated. If the industry as a whole decided to only start animating in 60 from now on, the animation industry would cease to exist. Companies would refuse to fund new shows or movies because it would be too expensive
Yeah, they seem to want to live in a world where animated movies are released years apart and all animation UA-camrs move to onlyfans to make back the money they missed for having to spend a year making a 3 min video
Animatics with 1-12 frames a second are proof enough that creativity and enjoyment isn't tied to frame rate
i animated my first-ever short film in 60fps because i was convinced it would look so much better than 24, without even slightly considering how much harder that would be
wow that was an awful decision on my end
yeah, animating in 60 fps is hell
People who think animators are lazy either under-estimate how hard animating is or expect animators to work 24/7 and have no life outside of the animation program
Yeah it took me three hour to make like a five second animation of a ball in 12 fps
Dude I have such a mad amount of respect for James Baxter, and the fact he actually commented and agreed with your views is insane
Sup
@@milktea6676 yo 😎
James Baxter = epik
What video was it on?
@@UmbralWrath it was on his video before this
the two arguments basically boil down to:
1: Thats just your opinion
2: 60 fps is better (in my opinion)
Which is kinda ironic that the two arguments contradict eachother
"sadly, not everyone alive today is James Baxter" is just the perfect sentence and I love it so much and I don't know why
Now we know Noodle's gay lover
because it's true. James Baxter my beloved 💘💖💕💓💞
Wait so James Baxter isn’t a Horse who walks in two legs and do tricks with a ball to make everyone happy?
He is, he just animates on the side.
hey dude i'm as surprised as you are
Even Better. A badass animator who makes smooth animations and badass movements.
No, that's after the mushroom bomb.
@@professionaldunce6312 Which one
A bit late to the party here and likely won't be seen. But to answer the question about animations in games.
We animate at 30fps. Reason being most goals and intentions for games is to run at 60fps. The engine itself interprets the animation and and since 30 is half of 60 it usually always makes for a very smooth and nice interpretation.
Now this interpelation can be tuned and adjusted within the engine. Allowing us control over a lot of the fine tunework with how the animation plays. Now the main thing though is the fact that the animation is baked down. Meaning each frame is keyed at the end when exporting. This means the animation timing doesn't get influenced by the framerate or anything above it, as the anim is now playing independently maintaining the intention while playing inside the engine with whatever framerate is playing.
Source, game animator for vr and ar interactive technologies.
Games run at 34 fps my guy and that usually depends what software your using to create anamation for a game but yea you got a point I think AI is stinky because look what it did with sonic adventures
@@survivalcraftstudio more than 1 engine exist
Exactly! Also not to mention 3D animation is technically interpolated to some degree since we don't have to animate each frame like in 2D. Loved your insight and this comment as a whole! 👍
@@zanghproductions2559 it was such a relief when I started trying out 3D animation that I found out it wasn’t done frame by frame. I and only done stop motion with legos before, so you can imagine the “oh thank fuck” I felt.
Nice! You just wait until that one gamer gets a 750hz monitor and runs the game at 1000fps which crashes the animation physics engine!
Game dev and artist here: 8:24 when we create an animation in a 3D software, we use so called "keyframes". These are key poses that define the major structure of the animation. The software automatically interpolates between the frames using basic lerping functions that more advanced animators can change using curves to give it more character. So essentially, to put it in simple terms, 3D animations for games are animated at infinite fps because the data in between frames gets calculated using math, just like how you can zoom into a vector image indefinitely and it'll never lose resolution, or how text in a text editor can be zoomed in without looking blurry.
Gamers have seen the future... And they want animations with infinite fps
shoutout to the guy who implied gamers are a race
There are some people who call themselves the "PC master race" and I think they're confused about what that actually means.
@Proto~p I was just spittballing reasons why some gamers think it's racist when people don't like them.
@Proto~p I also don't trust them either.
*"With the glass ceiling broken, all the oppressed groups shall prosper, especially the most oppressed group of all.....GAMERS"*
BUT THEY HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE!
seriously I laughed so hard on that comment
I'm not a game developer. But as a 3D animator in SFM. I animate with 24fps set as the template base, but once I'm finished I can just render at whatever FPS I want and it just auto tweens the movement for the FPS you choose.
Ok?
@@JmKrokY bruh, they where saying this because he asked. 8:21
I usually do that when animating for a 2d game
Also worth mentioning that this process is VERY different from interpolating the already-rendered video with an AI because it's only interpolating the motion of rigid objects you define in the creation process. That way there's still only motion blur when the animator or developer wants it but the motion is still smoother. Almost like the whole process is some kind of tool that works well when used correctly but doesn't work well when its lazily tacked onto someone else's work.
Yeah, but the program IS made for that. Not to make quick maths just so a real-life action movie program can change framerate of animation made by hand.
"the market will decide"
*the market will also decide on child labor if you let it*
That's not even the main reason I'd keep an-caps away form children. lol
Nice comment made me lulw
No just slave wages
And slavery too
@@Brecondo but they gotta secure the career of their "girlfriends"
3:08 saying there is a market for ai is the craziest foreshadowing i have seen by far
good video, but as a gamer I
Did you know most people can only see up to 60 FPS anyway?
sus😳
I don't know what to comment
Shut up your opinion is invalid, welcome to the internet 😡😡😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
@@Is_kitten are you okay?
@@SubtleOddity maybe
Interpolated 60 fps videos do look “lifelike”…
…If the aspect of life you’re trying to replicate is standing up too fast with iron deficiency.
You have such a way with words!
Seizures are part of life, my dude.
holy shit til i need iron
remember to consume enough iron people
Because the world is a tech demo
8:50
Ah yes, my skin color is gamer.
Woah woah woah you just said gama with a hard r how could you
Gamer is _our_ word, we’ll allow you to use “gama” instead of
@@Oxygen1004 OH MY GOD IM SO SORRY-
@@Oxygen1004 gama please
do you mean 8:50
Can't wait to see a video of you reviewing this video's comments!
A
Content!
Funny roblox man.
part 3
"this is part four of explaining why idiots are dumb"- future noodle
Game animator here, we animate 3d objects on keyframes and interpolate with curves for correct timing. Actually way fewer steps than in 2d and is the reason games can run at any frame rate, the animation isn't tied to a frame, it's object positions and rotations being moved through 3d space along a curve so each time a new frame needs to render in real--time it can look at the current time and pick the correct point along the curve.
I wonder if future animated shows and movies will function like this someday
@@fyrespark2077 With how different the fidelity is in 3D stuff, no. I also don't think people would be willing to have a 1 kilowatt appliance just for watching media.
With how detailed movies like Luca are, each frame often takes several minutes to render. In games we are used to frames per second, but when high-detail CGI is concerned, it's often minutes to hours per frame.
@@fyrespark2077 A lot of shows and studios are already working in, or gearing up to be in Unreal Engine and other real-time rendered engines. However, its important to point out it has nothing to do with framerates, and everything to do with saving rendering time. Real time engines are reaching enough fidelity that being able to have instant feedback for any lighting and shading changes is worth the trade-off from not having full rendering, specially for kids TV or stylized shows where it'll be more or less indistinguishable. At the end of the day it still winds up rendered down into a video file, unless its one of UE or Unity's downloadable demo shorts you're never going to get a program to run on your computer, and high powered PCs and render farms are still involved. Take it from me as I've worked on a kid's cartoon made in Unreal Engine, as a 3D rigger. Also Epic is throwing money around so its actually worth the studio's time to build a whole pipeline around it just to try it, but I digress.
All 3D animation already works on the same principle mentioned by the game animator, its just rendered at 24 fps, there's nothing other than choice stopping it from going higher (games are animated in the same software as movies). Animators set keyframes, then the computer interpolates everything in between. The story doesn't end there though, as it creates a curve the animator has control over to decide HOW it interpolates, and at any point another keyframe can be made based off the interpolated ones and adjusted. You can also move frames around and widen gaps in timing, and the curve will fill in infinitely, its all math after all, so framerate conversion would be there. So the human touch and intent is all still there, the computer just takes over as in-betweener and animators just have to deal with curves.
(This is actually maybe not the best for character animation and while it sounds good on paper in practice it has led to a lot of annoying, technical overhead that gets in the way of animation and a ton of animators, riggers, and productions, myself included, are finding that actually its much better to simply take control and forego interpolation and match 2D techniques since maybe our entire approach has been misguided for decades buuuuut I digress)
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew Your last point reminded me of something I heard about Monsters Inc, in that apparently every single frame with Sulley in it took over 10 hours to render because the strands of hair in his fur were individually animated...all 2,320,413 of them
what game have you worked on? im curious :D
Hey, I'm not a gameplay animator, but I am a gameplay animation engineer, so maybe I can provide some insight.
In short, yes we animate at either 24 or 30fps and have the game engine interpolate these frames for us, but we also don't exactly have the option to not interpolate. For reference, we use 3D models / animations in our game, and I would expect there are differences for 2D animations. Most games target 60fps as an ideal framerate, but due to a lot of uncontrollable circumstances and how many games are created nowadays, games don't always stay at 60fps consistently. Unlike movies / animations that can ensure that there's a constant framerate, it's not uncommon for games to have framerate drops while loading assets, rendering too many objects, etc. So we have to deal with variable framerates where sometimes you have a frame that took more than 1/30th of a second to generate, or 1/48th of a second, etc. If we played the animations back at a consistent rate, these frames would look strange, often "hitchy" if the timing of the poses doesn't match what the player expects. So instead, we interpolate the animation to generate frames on the fly for what a frame of animation would look like after 1/48th of a second has passed, for example.
Further, it's fairly common to not only have to interpolate an animation between authored frames, but we also sometimes have to interpolate between other animations as well. When your character goes from running to jumping, we have to interpolate between the running animation and the jumping animation for our character. Or interpolate from walking to running, crouching to dodging, etc. We generate what we call "animation graphs", which are basically rulesets for how a game engine is to interpolate between different animations depending on what the player is doing or attempting to do.
The big difference between our interpolation and the tool being discussed here is that our data that the computer understands is WAY more streamlined for computer algorithms to be applied against. With the "Video Interpolator", a computer has to interpret not only the artist's intent, but also "Is that an arm? An eye? How is the character moving between frame 1 and 2?". In 3D animation, the computer has some sort of understanding of what all these things are, and all the data is organized already in a way that the computer understands (skeletons, models + skinning, etc.). The "Skeleton Interpolator" has a much easier time understanding the motion between frame 1 and 2, and is likely to produce more predictable results. Even then, we have animators author the rules behind skeleton interpolation, and in some situations they will hand-author transitions if they feel that the computer isn't doing a good enough of a job.
For the Video Interpolator, I'd agree with quite a few points you present. I think this is a tool that's looking for a purpose, and it's incorrect to either say "This tool has no place in animation throw it away", and "This tool should be used for every animation and it's always better". I could foresee a future where maybe a specific sequence could be authored faster using a video interpolator, or the interpolation could be done for a specific background character whose movement isn't that important to the scene and the author just wants to tell the computer "Make these in-betweens so I can focus on animating the main characters in this shot". The tool would need some knobs to adjust (i.e. source framerate and target framerate), but I'd be interested to see if this tech has a future. However, the simple argument of "Higher framerate = better" is not true; different framerates can convey different atmospheres or emotions, and is not simply a metric of animation quality. If it were, stop-motion animation would be considered "just bad lmao", instead of having some form of charm around the imperfection of creating motion from motionless objects.
Thank you, voice of reason.
Thank you for this, your insight is priceless! And can i say thank you for working with animation engines XDD coding is a torture I wouldn’t wish on anyone
Nice
Thats really interesting :o
You. You make sense. I like you.
No matter where you go on the internet, stupidity shall always be found a stone-throw away.
And these comments.. Are pure evidence of that.
That one guy who said "this is progress" is most definitely into nft's now
No you don’t get it my monkey might move at 240 fps one day
My god I had the exact same thought
@Throwaway_73 bro it was an accurate insult to a guy who was being hilariously stupid
@Throwaway_73 are you the guy who said "this is progress" on an alt
@Throwaway_73 Aw, you're adorable.
Why are we talking about animating in 60 fps WHEN WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT 140fps!!! GAMERS HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE!!! 160FPS!!! PC ANIMATIONS MASTER RACE!!!
(For real is that even a thing?)
360 hz exists so we need 360 fps
Fake gamer! It's 144hz and 165hz
The king has spoken
People talking about using there pc AI to animate and saying gamers have seen the future of animation
Me agreeing with the video saying how it’s just ruins the artistic intent
You know, it's kinda mind boggling for me. I remember when I was a kid, my old man helped me make a lego stop motion project at 16FPS. Move a piece, take a picture, so on and so forth. I thought it was a pain in the rear. Realizing now that there are people DRAWING frames at higher FPS and that there are people complaining because "24 FPS is outdated"? That's entitlement at its peak.
There is a reason western animation has mostly drifted towards 3DCG. It's less work for the animators, and the heavy work (the rendering) can be done easily by a computer.
Standard hand drawn animation is mostly relegated to low budget series, and passion projects. Nothing else. It just takes a lot of time to draw everything, and time is money.
And Stop Motion… well one of those gets released once in a blue moon. Mainly because it's even more time consuming than hand drawn animation (and the "filming" part isn't even the bulk of that time sink if you want it to look good at all). Personally, I think it looks the best out of the 3 main styles, but I'm in the minority here.
@@Javifaa i love stop-motion. it's so charming and can easily look creepy or threatening in a good way.
@@oogenesis agreed, and there are lots of underrated shorts / even MOVIES that didn’t get much attention because they aren’t “live action” or “cool anime looking typo style”
I do wish people would just trying animating? 48 frames, PER SECOND is a freaking lot , I mean- that’s redrawing a frame 48 times for just one second , do the math for a 100 second video,
it’s
a
L o t.
And I’m still a beginner animator! Ever since I’ve started whenever I see a really good animation I just silently go
“:O wow”
And I even rewatch it a couple times lol
But you learn a new appreciation for animator teams that work month and months on just a possible 5 : 00 minute video-
and sometimes clickbait videos get more views then them!
*WHERES THE JUSTICE ?!?*
i used to make stopmotions at 5 fps and even that takes like an hour just to get a minute of video
I’m not here……
Almost entirely unrelated comment but one thing I love about vinyl records is not that the sound quality is better (because it isn’t). But there is something so wonderful about physically owning the album, being able to watch the needle drop and hear the gentle hiss over the dense plate. It’s so wonderful knowing that you’ve financially endorsed an artist you like and knowing you can actually pick up the album. Like how fricking cool is that?! You can pick up your album!!!
While it doesn’t directly apply to animation, knowing the actual passion that went into a project (or at least hard work), adds to your enjoyment.
Of course this is entirely subjective.
Ps. Honestly I feel like I went entirely off topic here
It is better though, honestly any analog format of music is objectively better than digital because analog is a 1 for 1 recreation of the soundwaves of the original where as digital is only an approximation.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that vinyl isn't the best quality. I can't really argue WHY it's better, cause I'm not educated on the specifics. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable comes along later to explain.
@@ghostsuru8429 both vinyl and electronic are identical sound waves however record has the possibility for the needle to skip over small grooves in the vinyl so overall you are getting just a less consistent sound. But more or less they are identical except for the novelty of actually owning a vinyl, which not only supports your favourite artists but also protects you from the unreliability of streaming apps. But physically they’re basically identical
@@Cowboycomando54tbh im the odd guy that likes Both an digitalized AND physical version of an Song:
There is an weird distint feeling that i love about really refined and clear songs, but also the same of them in a more compressed, inexact version of itself.
@@HugoValentineEdits Electronic and vinyl literally can't sound the same. They have different parameters that require different mix and masters. vinyl can only get so loud, while CDs for example can get way louder. Is that really the point though? I'm not going to be listening to Linkin Park on vinyl just as I choose not going to listen to Dark side of the moon on spotify when I have the vinyl. Vinyls have better dynamic range, and digital can just get louder for cheaper.
"Just draw more frames"
Watch these guys complain as their favorite anime takes 4 years to finish rather than 1 year cause they told the studio to draw more frames only for the animators to quit and shut down the project
Ye
And that is why, ladies and gentlemens...CGI is CRUCIAL in today's Anime Industry.
@@mahdeeznuts 😂😂😂
AoT 4/2 is coming Jan 9, 2022. I'm looking forward to any improvements on their CGI
@@Umar092 rip Jojo openings from part 1-3, you will be greatly missed
@@lmao1660 What's with Jojo opening? I didn't watch it...
The show I animate for, we animate in Harmony with puppet animation where yes it would be possible to animate on 60fps and just tween everything……but we don’t don’t do that and we still go 24fps because it’s just better…on our wrists XD
My dad left me for a women named lequishe tf u mean animation
What show are you animating for?
I'm confused by the phrase "Puppet Animation". Do you mean animating in a certain style, or something else?
@@Logan_but_not if i recall correctly, puppet animation is when your characters are already made with presetparts you can manipulate in both rotation and morphing to make an animation by tweening the different parts, kinda like flash animation i think
@@redstarfire4037 Good to know. Thx
Me and my family watched Mulan on Disney+. Me and my sister noticed some real ugly tearing in the animations when there were moderate to a lot of movement. We didn't know why, and after I stumbled upon Noodle's OG video, which I recognized all the types of tearing in his examples!
We figured out that the TV was trying to play Mulan, a 1998 2D movie in 60FPS with something called "TruMotion". We turned it off, and the tearing stopped.
2D animation made in 24FPS does NOT look good when a machine is trying to make it 60!!!
Is that Lg tv?
@@nurikkulanbaev3628 Yes
Funny enough, this is the comment that finally made me understand what Noodle has been going on about this whole time
@@SomeKindaHero117 Glad I could be of assistance 😁
That's not only true for that one time I took my switch and put on their TV and I was wondering why Zelda BotW (a 30 fps game) was looking so weird it was smooth but jaggered the image and made me sick in a couple minutes and even switching to a 60 fps game like Smash it was still trying to do something on the image that made movement feel slow/unresponsive/ugly
This AI motion thing is really nauseous unless it's a sports broadcast or something recorded from real life not animated
If 2021 noodle saw ai “art” he would get an aneurysm the size of Texas
“Calling this a straw man would be like describing Kennedy’s death as a fuckin headache”
I don’t know how, but I will work this phrase into my common vocabulary
Hey! Didn’t see any other comments answering this so sorry if it’s been answered already. I’m a game animator and most studios will work in 30 FPS that then gets interpolated at runtime (as the game is being played). Game engines don’t necessarily see animation in frames, but rather in amount of time (like an amount of seconds). This is to support variable frame rates, and so that animations can get blended between and broken out of more easily and quickly.
In some occasions, studios will animate in 60 FPS to get higher fidelity in slow motion sequences, or for example in God of War they animated some of the gameplay animation in 60 FPS to get more readable arcs in the attacks and more fidelity in the VFX attached to the animation, like the streaks of fire coming off the a weapon. Love the video and discussion, thanks Noodle!
interesting
That's cool!
Wow, I didn't know that game engines could do that, now I understand how you guys fit that many animations with different qualities and frame rates in just a few GB. And now I have goosebumps when I wonder how long it takes to make a good game engine. F for devs.
@@danieltandello5074 Years, it takes years to make a game engine
It's definitely a lot different when in a real time combat scenario in a challenging game, you're not exactly meticulously pondering the fluidity of fine background animation.
"Just too lazy to animate more frames" is so infuriating that it sent me into a primal rage
It's been two weeks now. How many cities or worlds have you destroyed so far?
I just flew in from the Aztec Empire circa 1521 and boy are my arms tired
My friend calls animators, like Odd1sOut lazy because the characters are ‘too simple’ for 1month per upload. I’d like to see him make a 24fps 10min video, which is about 14,400 pictures.
Winston
return to monke
well i as a small animator that feels like my final projects are fulfilling enough: i compleatly agree with you.
As a gamer, I can confirm that I know the exact date the universe ends
Same
If I recall correctly time began on Tuesday.
Not many people know that.
truuuuuue
Actually, as a gamer with 56k confirmed game time, I can safely say the world ends tomorrow at e3
2022?
I'm a 3D animator and about that animation in games question...
When animating in 3D you set up the keyframes and the software interpolates the rest, so rendering something at 24fps takes the same effort as rendering something at 1200fps (except you know, that it takes x50 more to render for the PC and the fact that the higher the fps, the easier it is to spot mistakes in the animation). But it's nothing like those interpolation IA programs that work over finished 2D animation, you have total control over it with toons of tools like time curves and it actually works really well since you are using and actual 3D scene and not a bunch of still images. You still need to work with it, if you just set up keyframes and interpolate it will end up looking awful and super robotic.
Interpolation in 3D is a super powerful tool, but it's just that, a tool, that you actually need to learn how to use.
It's a lot more complex than that but I hope I explained myself decently ;)
yup
honestly, i'd REALLY like to see Noodle do an interview of some kind with a 3d animator, cause there's almost as more that's different between the two than there is similar, and i kinda wanna get his take ont things...
i wonder if Marty would be willing to point him towards someone?
This turns into a complete lie if the animators in question are from Arc system works. God bless their souls
AS A GAMER
Continue
Sup
I think he dislikes the gamers...
Invalidated, NEXT OPINION PLEASE
What's up Checkmark
I still come back to this video and the follow up for the halo remaster like every 6 months. (I also rewatch your other vids too) These ones just hit different though. I personally would love to hear more opinion pieces from you. You are very well spoken while also being crude and funny. This channel really deserves much more recognition
As a little note. I'm not an animator, heck I can't even draw properly (even a stickman ends up disproportionate). I never took much time to appreciate animation aside from "hehe cartoon pretty". I had been exposed to the 60 FPS interpolation videos and just thought, "Heh, looks good, sometimes a bit trippy but maybe it's just me" then stumbled upon your video. After that I tried to look a bit more into the animation I was consuming daily on youtube, and started to notice a lot more details! So thanks a lot for helping me appreciate more things I was already appreciating!
when you see it, you can't unsee it again.
Here's how game animation work:
We do not animate on frames we animate on poses (at least for 3D Animations), ofc nowadays we try to use motioncapture when possible but if we are to actually animate like an arm moving, we will just place the arm in the inital position, then move the joints to wherever we want and mark that as a keyframe, it's not technically a frame it's just the position of the elbow or any other joint; the movement between the two keys will just be interpolated by the algorithm. It's not AI it's just a simple algorithm that determines the shortest path, what that means is We can't just take the initial position and then the last position and hope to get a natural interpolation as a result, that just wouldn't happen, we need to dictate for every joint in an arm or leg or whatever it's gradual movement following the desired path point-to-point and the algorithm fills the gaps.
IE. Say a character has one arm up into the air and I want it to go down and touch the torso, If I just input these two keys the software will likelly make the arm just go straight down and possibly go through itself depending on how the rules are defined for joint movement. Instead I need at least to make a third frame in the middle with the arm extended outwards meaning the arm makes a circular movement instead of just going straight down. For an actual animation to feel nearly natural, ofc you'll need more keys to properly draw the movement, then you can just adjust speed.
2D games follow the exact same formula 2D video animation follows
In FAR less words. Yes. We use interpolation. But it's not a post process interpolation, it's part of the animation process and we have full control over it.
@@odobenus159 I like more words. I got to learn about something I didn't know about before. Learning is fun and makes your brain and peepee bigger!
Not an animator but I've done some for games as a student, the more keyframes = the more memory the animation takes and can even lead to performance issues, and thats not great for optimization reasons. Marcos knows what they talking about, if it's hand-animated it's animated on poses and only tweaked where necessary.
From what I know about motion capture it makes a keyframe every frame, then someone goes in and cuts down the complexity to make it usable while retaining the realistic feel of it, thats my best guess at least.
so tldr, games arent animated on specific intervals like 2s, just wherever they're needed :)
Thanks for the facts Marcos.
The only time I've seen interpolation not used in game animation is Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball FigherZ because those games are specifically trying to look like 2d animation
This is so baffling to me. You don’t look at paintings like The starry night and say, well it’s just a mess of colours it would look better if it was photorealistic. Same goes with animation. Appreciate the work that’s gone into it and enjoy it. The world is already full of enough filters I don’t need it on my cartoons as well. If the FPS is increased its looks trash every time compared to the original.
Me using Google deep dream on starry night: *We do a little trolling.*
"You don’t look at paintings like The starry night and say, well it’s just a mess of colours it would look better if it was photorealistic."
Unfortunately, a lot of people actually do feel that way. The sad truth is that the majority of people just have no taste.
that’s a great analogy but i don’t think it’s good enough for the plebs
FUCKING NAILED IT 👌
AI is for giving me a 25/50 on my Spanish homework not for animating highly complex and well thought out animation I am not an animator. I do play guitar. If someone took a song i was playing and strummed Em the entire time and called it "enhanced" or "remastered" I would shit myself and jump down a flight of stairs.
"Gamers have seen the future"
Cyberpunk 2077 trailer song "hyper - spoiler" starts to play
you have a tick next to your name, I must like
True
Bro, when the two heavys comeon, you know its getting real
why tf are you here?
YE
As a gam- no but I find it so funny how mad people are getting over the bit.
As a gamer this comment hurt me.
As a gamer I game
@@JoseMendoza-sv1fi good joke. i got a laugh.
Guys, he’s not saying you can’t like it, he’s just saying dont go around claiming it’s better.
He literally explicitly states this at 13:57
@@castle9165 but he also says this at 17:24
*Guys, he’s not saying you can’t like it, he’s just saying don't go around claiming it’s better in every circumstance
Or if you can, you don’t have the eyes for animation.
Guys, he ain't saying you can't like it, just that it's worst and you shouldn't tell anyone you think it is better. Keep that to yourself.
Noodle: ALRIGHT YOU GUYS WANT 60FPS? FINE, REAL LIFE FOOTAGE!
Camera default framerate is only 30fps so you know.
@@JustASinner you do realize different cameras can record at different frame rates right? There's no "30fps default". Noodle's camera could go up to 60fps, maybe even 240 in lower resolutions. Or maybe the video is recorded in only 24 and nobody realized because of the lack of rapid motion?
"Gamers have seen the future" you can't make this shit up, some people out there are crazy
Yes, gamers have seen the future, and, spoiler alert:
*IS A HORRIBLE FUTURE*
As a gamer, I know that you will drink water somewhere this week, trust me
I may have miscalculated some people's self degrading willpower but I'm still right, I just used a different walkthrough for a different ending route of reality, my IQ is still at gamer levels of smart
Let's avoid it by doing mass genocide :D
@@stupiderandunnecessarier oh yeah? bet.
@@stupiderandunnecessarier Clearly you don't know just how POORLY i take care of my body!
"You should just animate with more frames!"
I'm not a professional but uh, animation is an extraordinarily long process. Companies are already working their animators to death to make movies and shows, they can't afford to pay more people to do unnecessary work. Not to mention that when an animator says "24fps", it doesn't usually mean that there are 24 different frames in a second: to show movement in an exaggerated and life-like way, they use principles such as "slow-in, slow-out" which involves choosing which images stay for how many frames. More frames is slower, less is faster. Without principles like this, all you see is a static motion - it may look really cool, but I'm willing to bet that once this "new tech" is a little less new and interesting, people won't be as interested in it anymore.
Also, AI will NEVER take over animation jobs because an AI could never truly understand how to make animations lifelike. Yes, there is a degree of learning an AI can do, but it's entirely limited to what YOU teach it to do. Even if AI could make animations, you would still need people to teach the AI how to make new animations in new ways because an AI can't learn from actual people or experiences.
Animators aren't against new tech either - There are a lot of new and extremely useful tools that make animation a lot easier to do - but it still requires a lot of work on the animator's end.
Can totally agree
I'm no AI expert, but... No I think a sufficiently designed AI could replicate a human brain if it has to in order to make art. It wouldn't work with current AI technology but I think it is also possible for an AI now to make it's own unique art style. It might not be consistent or anything but with significant training it could grasp different types of art and design new interpretations of those art styles. AI could make unique art, but it is probably far too expensive to consider at this point in time.
@@RigoVids Neural Networks, as we know it, learn from giving pre-existing data (such as images and other media) and figures out how said media is, by finding patterns and relations to the other pieces of the dataset. With how we do it, Neural Networks won't be able to create something fully "unique" pieces of art. It will basically just figure out how the art in the dataset works and copy off of that. Now, you could give the dataset many many different styles of art but it won't make a combined version of those styles because it won't be able to connect the two together with any patterns. Instead it'll learn from the styles and be able to spew out different styles of art per generation.
Now on the "replicating a human brain" part, the human brain is much too complex to fully replicate. Not only does the brain have about 100 billion neurons, you'd need to learn from those neurons and have a large enough dataset of the brain to truly be able to "replicate" it. For the idea of "making unique art" that would have to have a large dataset of the brains of artists, specifically when they are doing art. Which means not just only 100 billion neurons but now times that by the dataset size AND how long the training data would be, this would reach values way too large to calculate as every person is different and has different ways the brain functions to drawing art.
@@RigoVids this aint Detroit buddy
@@NetyashaRoozi I feel if humanity doesn't kill itself for a good while, AI technology would probably reach a point where it may "replicate" the mind. However, it feels that it would be more likely that AI would build a unique mind that is quite different from a human one rather than copy the human mind. This unique mind may or may not be capable of unique art, but making unique art is probably something that will take hundreds of years for it to do. AI would take up art way after it takes over more simple jobs that don't need very much creativity.
Trying to use AI for that kind of stuff right now is really stupid and will only be an insult to the artist. Even using it in the near future will probably only end up failing miserably. We probably only should attempt it far in the future.
As a musician, the nightcore joke literally had me spit out my drink, it was so funny I love it. I can't believe people who have never tried animation not even once think they can tell animators about their job. Keep up the videos I love your content 💘
Well they can but they will probably be wrong
Audio engineer here and I had the same reaction lol cant say hes wrong
Also, interpolating isnt the same thing as autotune, its basically the same thing as nightcore
That bit reminded me of Adam Neely's video about musical repulsion or music you hate, and my brain was immediately like, ah yes, n o i g h t core.
nightcore sucks.
Damn your style is actually amazing ik its only cardboard but it's different and looks very pleasing
I wanna see a piece of animation where only a single character is animated at 60 FPS. Like, everybody else is animated at 24, but GREASE MAN slides around at 60
Watch spider verse
@@Nai_101 oh yeah miles was like animated at 24 frames
Pain is what you want and I'm willing to give it to you
@@victorcastro9853 he was 24 fps when he was still learning to be spider-man. The instant he became who he was, he became 60 fps
Sanic
“A human being did not write this”
You’re right
It was a Gamer
did you just say the forbidden "G-Word"?
Gamer here and can confirm, I’m actually 15.648 x Pi rats disgusting as a skeleton disguising as a human.
@@Mr-Moron well actually you’re a jellyfish-like being operating within a chassis of bones which has been surrounded and filled with biological matter.
*Bold of you to assume I have a nervous system*
@@Mr-Moron legit comedy gold
I am a sound designer for animation. I have opted to understand this. Interpolation is not designed or beneficial for any animation projects. It does not improve anything, for the animation/production because it can end up screwing with a lot of things, my job in specific is very time-based and visual feedback. If it lacks charity it's hard to know what sounds to add into the design. Sound designers hate animated interpolation because its lacks the actual visual timing with sound.
I think it is a great tool for live-action slow-motion footage at an already high frame rate because when you are shooting in a raw format like persay a Red 8k sensor at 60fps, each image is clean and brand new, interpolation smooths the jittery effect of slow motion.
The reality is that animation is not film. It's not raw and it's not animated in 60. And I challenge any person that thinks it can be done to actually do it and then make a statement. See them in 6 years and god as my witness will still be out faster than Yandere simulator.
Also, fun fact:
Most interpolation AIs (Such as DAIN and whatever the hell Nvidia's solution is called) are trained on real-world footage and videogame scenes not animation
Which fucks up, well, a lot of things
@@thecomputer3902 that explains a thing or two
@Keshuel how the fuck was anyone supposed to know it was interpolated?
@Keshuel this entire video is about responding to people who actually enjoy interpolation. People can prefer or just enjoy them, but he explains how he sees it as a flawed perspective.
too lazy to read :/
“GAMERS HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE” WHAT A FUCKIN LINE
"Try animating motion blur" was the funniest shit to me.
My face and brain legit froze. Did they think that animators couldn’t.. after more than a century of animating??? People are really something
Motion blur is surprisingly the funniest part of animating
@@hhh1234h These are the same people that harassed Cyberpunk developers when the executives at CDPR messed up
motion blur frames are amazing
same for me cuz he clearly showed motion blur in the first video xD
"Just draw more frames" sounds an awful lot like "just buy a house"
Or, like, "just save up more money".
just get more money dude it’s not that damn hard
Agreed
“Just get good”
honestly... to any gamer who uses this as a valid point...
"It took you 5000 hours to get that rank? Wow, now do it again, but it will take you 12500 hours instead because it will look cooler"
There was actually a proof of concept animation a friend showed me that used 24fps for everything but the villain who they used AI to increase to 60, it gave the bad guy this really freaky inhuman aspect where he seemed to move and act in ways that no natural being should.
This is a fair use. Making things look ugly ON PURPOSE can be really cool. Most of the time though...
@@jackofroge Its almost like an ARTISTIC INTENT is like, part of the art itself innit. Its so refreshing to see the rant and the tech inspire people to create as opposed to stagnate.
Honestly, ketchup on a gourmet steaks too much of an understatement, it's more like spray painting incoherently on another artists finished lifelike painting and claiming it is better. Horridly offensive to the artist, and while hey it MIGHT be considered artistic in its own way, its a dick move on a whole other level that I would happily team combo clothesline that asshat.
And to the original comment, thats so fucking awesome, make sure your friend doesn't shelve that idea.
@@henryplumb5200 I mean... It is the same thing as the "ketchup on steak" thing. Think of it like this: Steak and burgers are both beef. It's fine to put ketchup on the HAMBURGER, because that's what was intended. It's the opposite case for the steak.
If the artist WANTS their animation to be interpolated, its fine. THEY'LL do it. If it isn't interpolated already, there is no reason to do so as a consumer.
@@jackofroge I mean, I didnt say the metaphor didnt work, its more that spraypaint is a tool, but using it on a work without xonsideration of the intent is ruining the artistry of the piece that the artist has been working on. 😊
What was the name of it?
This is basically the same thing with "Slowed + Reverb" music. People take a song that was good enough for itself and just change two things using a computer (which they probably didn't do manually) and call it "peak music". And I know someone will say "What about remixes?" remixes do have a manual human input that change the song and make it sound different than the original, just like in animations and the problems that you mentioned.
“Calling this a strawman is like calling Kennedy’s death a headache”
Subbed
The based animator man is spittin' facts
That line made me laugh.
**Wheeeeeeeeezeee**
hey whats that one song at 4:31
Same
About game animations:
Short answer is that while games render at 60fps, people aren't animating at 60.
3D models are driven by bones in virtual space. Similarly, objects like characters, cameras, NPCs or any object are being moved on game logic running at 60fps. Because these are just things happening in 3D space, a computer can reasonably interpolate the frames between.
Where animating is concerned, interpolation is a feature by default. You can get away with a mere 4 keyframes per second and it'll still look good. You can move and add them at will for any part that needs it, building up the animation as you go, and it'll smooth it out as you need.
As for actual frame-by-frame 2D animations. everything you've said applies. Too much work to bother with anything past 24fps.
Thanks for the explanation :)
Yeah, basically this. - approved by game dev
Predone cutscenes are a little different, hence the push for in game cutscenes in the industry as of late.
As for the video, mmm I could salt a stake with it coming off the comments and Noodle :D
It also gets complicated because most modern games update each system at a different time. Since while you want to update the render at 60fps, there is no reason that game logic (AI, etc) or things like physics simulation need to run that fast... If you are rendering the game at 60fps, and you have a falling ball, you are not re-calculating physics every single frame -- So you need to constantly interpolate/predict it forward in time (on the render thread or something like that) so that it looks right at the higher render framerate. That's possible because 3D engines have vectors for everything and know where and how fast it's going. For character animation, it's usually possible to choose what happens; either the bone transforms get interpolated every single render frame OR it doesn't (that is usually desirable for cutscenes for similar content). So long story short, not everything is animated by keyframes and even when it is, game animators might not actually have any control on how it plays back.
@@longinus665 Actually, the way unity handles it, is that there is a seperate loop in another thread, that handles physics, which makes it mostly independant from framerate
@@longinus665 Yeah, if it were just key frames, what would be the point in calling them that?
"calling this a strawman would be like decribing Kennedy's death as a headache"
10/10, will use quote in arguments.
or if you *really* want to illustrate the point, “chickens coming home to roost”
Same, I will also be calling people strawmen
8:13 yeah, this is true. I saw a guy in my school watching a 60 fps anime fight scene. I told him that it looks bad, and was like “ok,” so we tried to find fight scenes at 24, and they just do not exist.
To answer the comment "Do 3D video game animators animate in 60FPS?":
I've been told that 3D Viewmodel Animators for games actually animate at a standard 30FPS, especially for First Person, and the game engine "interpolates" it into whatever FPS the engine can hit.
Now, I quoted "interpolation" because in this case, an engine is actually calculating vertices and points of data in a 3D space to direct where two points set in 2 keyframes are and what can be inbetween them. These keyframes can also contain data about whether to ease-in or ease-out or even snap to a keyframe and all the other quirky stuff.
This is EXTREMELY different than an AI doing guesswork in a 2D frame-by-frame animation, which contains almost no info of important animation functions and principles in points of a 2D space because it's mostly hand drawn.
The exception of animating in higher FPS is when a game has features like slow motion or features that require precise frame knowledge. For example, the Killing Floor Series, known for their bullet-time gameplay, requires animations done in higher FPS to compensate being slowed down. Certain fighting games also utilize higher FPS animations for more precise reaction windows by players.
Animation in higher frames is completely fine when video games require reaction and timing. But in filmic media, the depiction of the art you're supposed to enjoy at a reasonable and watchable speed is fine enough. Great vid btw.
Before I speak, I'm a dumbass who can't draw/animate and I just like when video games go brrrr. Could one animate something in a game engine, and then the game engine works its magic and high framerate go brrr? It's probably way more complicated than that.
Hell, DOOM Eternal is able to run at up to 1000FPS with it's game engine
@@LostParadise_ also a dumbass here but that sounds hard on a gpu, because thats a lot of data every second if youve gone an animated every frame
Also itd take a lot more work especially for a big game
@@LostParadise_ Video game animations are usually done with a general 3D program like Maya/3DSMax/Blender before being imported into a game engine. Animations on a model can be "hardcoded", or baking in 3D terms, into the model for interpolation and other fun stuff like blending two animations together. The engine handles all this interpolation within itself and is actually a lot less taxing than you think.
I might preface this as I am a beginner viewmodel animator. I've been hearing that different games may do different methods to put animations into their games. But usually when there's a 3D animation from a program that's involved, it's usually baked in and ready for the engine to make use.
@@youtubewontletmehaveaonewo2471it's a lot less taxing than you think. Game engines have progressed to that point where real-time calculation on hundreds of thousands, if not, millions, of points of data can be done with a fraction of GPU and CPU power. This is, of course, in relation to today's hardware. Usually, animation's not the most taxing part of a game model but it's model topology/textures/optimization.
It’s funny how all those people who have probably never animated or even made anything outside of grade school is telling artistic people how the best way something it made. Without realizing how hard it is.
well the truth is...that's the way the market works, if the market have a collectively bad/wrong taste about something, as long as there's a huge number of people got the same take as that taste, they will be the market... which sucks... it's like, being a majority doesn't translate to being correct, it's a 2 different thing
The people that are saying hfr animation looks better are probably the same people who said "I wish I could draw" whenever they see you doodling in class
That’s exactly the reason why I got really angry at the comment saying that animators should try to animate at 60 FPS.
I know! its the absolute most entitled thing ive ever seen! It's the client commissioning you and saying you should do it for free! If you think it's worth nothing, then do it your fucking self! God i hate these people, but you're 100% right
They are also speaking for AI technology that they know nothing about as well.
People seem to miss that your point was "stop taking other people's work, putting it through an AI blender, and claiming its automatically better cos the numbers are higher"
Bigger number Better person
Why are people's taste such a concern? He sounds like a classical guitarist complaining that some people find the electric guitar to be a better instrument, or a rap artist complaining that people enjoy mumble rap.
It's a rant about taste, a futile exercise
@@IagoSB__0.0 Way to totally miss the point of the 2 videos like a champ
@@bN_isheeere you know views aren't an award given right? it's a counter of how many people wanted to watch that. complaining about views is complaining that people like something.
@@Deadbeatcow
ad revenue tho
About videogame animations, I can give some input as an amateur dev, although I have no clue about AAA standard so ask someone else.
The tools I use are Blender and Unity (yeah I know, cringe) mostly, and both programs render an animation at 60 fps usually unless your computer is a potato or the project is very poorly optimized. I animate using key frames (the best way I can explain it is that the tools can save the location of certain parts of an object within 3D space at a certain point in time), interpolating the frames, and then tweaking the result by adding more key frames for individual actions (for example lifting a foot a bit higher during a kick for more energy in the motion) and/or directly manipulating the animation curves.
TLDR, 3D animators usually aren't animating frame-by-frame, we're animating pose-by-pose.
I assume that if the animation is going to be viewed at another frame rate (say an animated movie or a stylized videogame), you can set the program to render the animation at that frame rate and then adjust the animation accordingly, or make the animation from scratch using that render setting.
Videogames that use sprites (2D drawings) have to animate sprite-by-sprite, which is kinda like frame-by-frame only animations are are going to be triggered by script or player input, not the frames-per-second format a pen-and-paper animator would need to worry about. 2D isn't my thing, so maybe I'm not giving the whole picture here.
As for mo-cap, I have no idea. Apparently UA-camr Russian Badger (who uses mo-cap w/ Source) can tweak what he captures with traditional 3D animation and in-engine physics interactions.
Basically: 48 frames per second doesn't double our workload like it would a 2D animator, instead anything below or above 60 FPS becomes something to account for when animating, and more complex motions will require more key frames and animation curve edits (basically more data) to make look good.
3D modeler here: we rig models with bones (think an articulated doll) and then pose them to animate. This is automatically interpolated by the game engine. The reason we do this is for flexibility. Here’s some examples:
- some games have a walking animation and a running animation, and code the game to mix between the two depending on how far you push the joystick
- going in and out of animations is easier. If you move a character left or right, you can interpolate between the two motions
- if you animate a character doing something like picking something up, you can make the animation additive so that the animation will work no matter whether the character is sitting, standing, running etc. you can also multiply variables so if they pick up a large object the animation will scale
- running up and down a slope may require telling the computer to lift the feet up higher or lower than normal
- frame rate changes
So basically, flexibility is the reason! In games where you can do almost anything, you can never truly guess everything a player will do or every angle they’ll look from. So instead, animations are made to be scalable and additive for that reason. The position and rotation of bones is recorded in hard numbers. In fact, there’s a lot more math involved than you’d think. It’s not any harder or easier than 2D hand animation, just different, with different requirements (games need to run at 60fps so players can have appropriate time to react and also not get motion sick).
Some stylized games (genshin, honkai, guilty gear) will have capped frame rates on their animations. But that’s an illusion. The game still runs at 60fps, but they take more care to manually cap the frames of character animations to have that level of control and intent you talked about.
Sorry about the ramblings, I hope they made sense at all! Math is really the name of the game here, but it’s a tool like any other that requires skill and intent
Seriously, super interesting read. Thanks!
Comment hall of fame🎉
yes inject that knowledge STRAIGHT into my brain
@@whoisezekiel2099: ow
Thank you for explaining, I seriously can't believe people dumb down all the work you do to pressing a button and applying it to AN INTIERLY DIFFERENT MEDIUM which is 2d animation, thanks for the knowledge
As a gamer, I'm offended at how many "gamers" are offended at a video that isn't about gaming.
Yeah gamers nowadays are weird man, imagine saying other game is shit bc yours have 40whk hd graphics bullshit on the fruits and some others have low poly grapes
Games are good if it's good, you dont have to shit on other people's games
Gamers in the last video: *Hears the word FPS*
It's something related to us and video games we must intervene immediately
I’m a console player my average frame rate if I’m lucky is at least 24
Bo jiden
i didn’t think there actually existed people who describes themselves as gamers. like how do you go on living after that point?
The bash on assassins creed hurt. He’s not wrong. It just hurt.
What hurted even more was when assassins creed became the Witcher 3, just worse.
Sad..
Black Flag was the last AC game I bought, and I was baffled that Ed Kenway was the third from the left. I underestimated how much they've been milking that cow.
@@viperblitz11 Unity was ok just kinda buggy, Syndicate was pretty whatever. Seems people liked Origins though.
Ubisoft
The way this whole video is shot is so cool and interesting
"Calling this a strawman would be like calling Kennedy's death a headache" has absolutely sent me
Well technically it was a headache
...for like a fraction of a second
@@Denielle-VGtaClips I remember from years ago, the footage of him getting shot looked blurry, but it always looked to me like Kennedy's brains leaked out like pasta-covered spaghetti.
@@joshjess9841 sound like a bad headache
@@joshjess9841 that's literally what happened. His wife Jackie historically reaches for his brains thinking they could fix him
@@the_jingo Might need some Tylenol for that.
The "GAMERS HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE" one had me laughing nonstop for a minute
I saw that and I died for a couple of seconds
That line alone made me subscribe
sounds like something that would build the plot of a meatcanyon video with a gamer cult who attempt to see into the future.
Yeah. Gamers actually have seen the future. Matchmaking queues that make it take longer to get into a game than just using a server browser. Photogrammetry models, unnecessary high resolution textures that cause ridiculous load times, soulless brand-characters in free-to-suffer games engineered to sell us skins and battle passes. Completely nonsensical game balance. The destruction of the "clan" and the evaporation of communities in favour of massive unthinking "follower" swarms.
If you were there in the past you can't forgive this, we want what we had in the past back. Anyone who calls themselves a gamer unironically and takes pride in their hobby has to realise that the average quality has gone way the fuck down. The obsession with 4K, billions of polygons onscreen at once, 5v5 rankers, and microtransactions has trashed gaming just like the cartoon/animation industry. If you disagree - find me a modern spongebob, ren and stimpy, futrama/simpsons, show me the modern disney animated films. There are 1,100+ dislikes on this video from people who don't believe things have gotten terrible. So let's hear it from them.
Gamers have seen the future
"Do the animators who work in gaming companies animate in 60 fps or is it just interpolated?"
Well, if you actually ever used 3d animation tools, it's the latter, they animate with key frames and use different mathematical interpolations (e.g. Linear interp or bezier interp) to move the skeletons around. Then, in game, they utilize the engine's tools to add additional, real time physics animations, especially for hair, clothes, and boobs.
Boing
@@NiceCream4839 booba
In my own experience with 3D, you animate as much as you need to fix the jank.
Basically, you do some poses, let the computer interpolate, then go back in and fix inbetween.
For an example: I did this animation where a character spin kicks around using her foot as a pivot point; so every part of the body except that one foot was done in forward kinematics because inverse was better for keeping the foot where it should be... but it kept trying to rotate the opposite way of the rest of the motion when just let go to a target pose, so I had to manually set pretty much every single one of the 60 frames, while the rest of the body was keyed as low as 1 or 2 per second, so *technically* I animated everything on 1s, but I didn't really, which makes it hard to put a real number on it like doing it on 2s or 4s... dunno if that makes sense.
Also: in retrospect, I think I question the decision of using inverse kinematics there and might redo it with full-forward ones at some point.
This process also future proofs 3D animation, as a higher framerate doesn't need any new data to fill in the gaps. Using a data set allows the same animation to play and time out correctly at 30, 60, 120 and even higher framerates... Just wanted to expand on the good point you made because like... I'm a nerd and find it fascinating
My favorite motion that game engine renders is when it ragdolls
14:24 I thought bro was going to cook with how photo-realism is not superior to stylized games, but he sold so hard.
I hate when people are just like “duh just animate in higher framerate then” if it was that easy this argument likely wouldn’t exist
It's the same kind of thing as "you're depressed just be happy". how is it this difficult to understand that guess what people aren't magic and can't do anything if you try hard enough. So unless you just start flying through pure willpower you're point is stupid.
i animated my first-ever short film in 60fps
that was really, really dumb for a lot of reasons
but at the time i was like "UGUGUH I MAKE SMOOTH :)))))"
That’s like saying to usain bolt, “JuST ruN FAstEr!”
@@cheese8554 well I don't think Usain bolt really needs the help. The people who race against him on the other hand.
Your legs broke because of warfare ? Just get up and go on the firld again. Just do it. I say so.
When animating for a Video Game you're not animating set pixels, you're animating with vectors. You animate at whatever FPS you do (personally, I usually use 24 because it's the default in blender) and when you import that into a game engine, it will smoothly transition between the keyframes using the anim curves you set up for your animation. As there is not a "it looks like this on this frame and then like this on the next frame" you don't have issues with the animation's over all runtime being dependent on frame rate. Of course this is only for the majority of 3D games, sprite based games are the most obvious example but different methods do exist.
I use animation and sprite movement
And sprite-based 2D games are practically never animated at 60fps, even if the gameplay and movement is displayed at that framerate
@@L4Vo5 hehe (laughs in construct 3 internal sprite creator)
How about cup head???
@@ΔομαρΤ have you seen how hard it was for them? No one ever said it was impossible, just really difficult.
A lot of people missed the entire point. The point isn’t “higher FPS equals cringe” it’s that if you have an animation at 24 FPS and you artificially change it to 60 using AI, it makes any form of movement hard to track, look janky, and ultimately more confusing. As a viewer our brain can fill in the gaps of animation, but the AI is not capable of doing that accurately and ends up making the visual equivalent to taking a beautiful pizza and then throwing a gallon of Orange Juice and Milk on it. It makes look it ugly, to the point where even if I had the original video at the highest definition available, it can still make me think it’s at 240p or 144p in those small moments. Overall, it doesn’t “improve the quality” in any big way. The most I can give the AI is that if it’s a very VERY small movement, it can interpolate that well. But even then it still messes up in some ways.
Those people didn't listen to anything he said. Many of them had this "Bruh, I'm smarter than you bruh" attitude but didn't know a thing about what they were talking about. That's not criticism. That's prejudice. Bias. And others were "Bruh, my opinion is what counts bruh, no one cares about you, bruh". To use AI interpolation like that is the laziest way of "improving" animation and people call it progress?! So progress is being lazy instead of working each detail? Like... try painting a Mona Lisa on a 210x297 mm piece of paper with a wall pencil and you will see how there is no precision. You are lacking the small pencil for small details and most important of all, a sensitive eye and imagination. Interpolation AI, as used in those videos, have none of those. Like Noodle said, interpolation can look great if used without laziness, if you allow me to paraphrase him. And then those people accused ANIMATORS of being lazy?! Can someone tell them to look on the fricking mirror, please?
That's the funny part about it: The less information you have to work with, the more your brain does the heavy-lifting by filling in those gaps. But when you have a computer fill in the gaps, what would've otherwise been subconscious now sticks out like a sore thumb pulled out of the sink's garbage disposal.
@@NovanByworks Maybe that's the reason those people who completely missed Noodle's point, missed the point. They don't have enough brainpower, and that's why they appreciate lazy AI-interpolated 60fps videos, lol
But if you make it in 60fps from the start its a massive improvemnt.
Using AI "fps scaling" as an argument against 60fps animation is stupid.
@@Wylie288 dude. My guy. He wasn't arguing against 60fps animation. He's specifically talking about ai interpolation, i.e. taking something that a team of professionals decided to animate at 24fps and plugging it into a shitty algorithm to get something approximating 60fps.
If you actualy watch his original video he goes out of his way to say 60fps has its place.
i would buy a shirt that says “gamers have seen the future”
So, there are still people who don't get that the framerate isn't the problem, but the interpolation fucking up something that was made in a different framerate, huh? If you want something to be animated in 60 fps, then fuckin' go for it, animate it in 60 fps (if you don't die of exhaustion first). But if you take something that isn't in 60 and crush its bones into fine enough powder to string it out to 60, it's gonna look off, wrong, and awful.
and it probably will make the original artist feel bad too
All these commenters do not understand this. It’s not frame rates that’s the issue, it’s the interpolation. Some of the best work in the world is in 16, 24 or 30 FPS. The FPS is for the animators, not the viewer.
Also, the gamers thing is 100% true. We are responsible for crunching and (some) issues in games. We always demand improvements, even if there doesn’t need to be any.
One of my favorite series, Pokémon, used 60 FPS for RSE and FRLG, but then switched to 30 FPS for DPP and HGSS and beyond. They “DOWNGRADED” to make the games better. If that doesn’t tell you something, you are a lost cause.
I agree, and for what it's worth, commenter who is about to make a fool of themself and tell us we are somehow incorrect, DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN!?!?
@@firehawk5962 do you have a brain, because you seem to find arguing on a UA-cam comment section the only way to relive the stress that you're hard-stuck bronze in overwatch because you refuse to communicate with your team and when you do you sound like a banshee screaming infinitely because of how high pitched your voice is, if you got closer to your microphone I could probably smell your BO because of how you don't take a shower for months straight even during the summer times.
Interpolation is an issue because the technology's still new and the stuff we have currently are all tech demos. What I really don't get are all the "insulting to artists" comments. Was it insulting to artists when Macromedia Flash was released? Was it an insult to artists when films started to use 3D to replace hand-drawn animation? Was it an insult to artists when cel animation was replaced by scanners? In each case, technology caused some people to lose their jobs, but it opened up the market to more people. It's really ironic that Noodle, someone profiting off of advances in commercial animation and film technology can call new AI advancement an "insult to artists". By that logic, using Premiere Pro or some equivalent software is an insult to film editors. Using Audacity is an insult to recording studios. Using Illustrator or Coral Draw is an insult to artists etc.
This is a new technology, and it will only get better, potentially allowing people that have limited ability in animation to make their own animated films. Will it challenge current day inbetweeners and traditional animators? Yeah it would. But I'm sure people like Noodle are happy to not be sitting in a booth developing negatives all day. Technology grows, jobs get lost, new ones get created. It's that simple.
For people saying it's just lazy to not animate at 60, I recommend looking into the story of The Thief and the Cobbler.
The genius behind it insisted on animating on ones the entire time and the animation is gloriously fluid and gorgeous, but it was so time consuming and so expensive that he could never consistently work on it because he just didn't have enough money to pay the army of animators it took to do it in a reasonable amount of time. As a result, the movie never got finished. Instead, it was aborted when some other company forced him to sell the rights, booted him off the project and quickly and lazily finish it, chopping out several scenes that he spent years working on.
Yes, it would be nice if animators could be allowed to make animated films at the highest quality, with no shortcuts, at the maximum possible number of frames, but economics is, unfortunately, a factor that makes that impossible. It's not laziness to animate the way they do now. They're working with the time and money constraints and the techniques developed over decades of work have found a way to make that compromise look amazing.
Please don't insult the hard work of people who've spent their lives perfecting their craft by saying, "Oh, they're just lazy because they won't do it the way we want it to be."
You people have no god damned idea what you're talking about.
it took them literally 30 years to make the (sadly) unfinished The Thief and The Cobbler. Of course it was worth it but jesus christ, _30 y e a r s_
@@Deemee-ed 30 years. An entire generation. The recobbled cut version at least shows us what it would have been if he'd been properly able to finish it, but he just was never going to be able to because it was too expensive and time consuming. It's so sad to think about.
"Sadly not everyone alive today is James Baxter"
A truer statement has never been spoken
Every sixty seconds in Africa, a minute passes
I don’t know a lot about animation, but the point that you brought up about the gourmet food and ketchup, I really like. It’s like if a game developer said “I would recommend this game on a lower fps and lower fov for the effect” , I’m gonna trust that. Keep up the good work 👍
I took a 3d animation class in high school. Being a GAMER, when I first heard that we'd animate in 24 fps, I was like, what? Those are peasant numbers. Then I realized I had to make all the key frames myself, and I was suddenly happy about the 24 fps. I didn't even have key frames on every frame. I'm about the most basic animator out there and even I get it.
He reformed!
There is hope for the gamers after all
that is the most based profile picture i've ever seen
@@LeoparDusk this is literally a comment about how there is hope 💀 you clown
Redemption arc
"The market will decide."
-Herbert Hoover, shortly before the great depression
Same with the 2007 or 2008 housing crisis
"The market will decide"
Jefferson Davis before succeeding to protect a dying economic model
"The market will decide"
Dr. Sues or something i dunno
Ancaps in general.
@@fiammaorsmth9840 you realize capitalism depends and extensively use the market right....?
I don't think people understand the difference between frame rate in games and frames in animations
Yep I think this is the reason most people got mad, they think he is saying "60fps is bad!!" and not "60fps interpolation that shitty kids apply to already existing 2d animation is bad."
I know I don’t. I understand what frame rate in animation means, but isn’t gaming FPS like when it doesn’t skip or something?
@@someguy9345 it's basically how smooth everything is moving around
I have to assume The Community was given a Clockwork Orange treatment, being forced to watch shoddy upsampling until they develop a Pavlovian response that causes them to cry tears of blood if the frames aren’t sixty+.
3:48 I always loved the “Just animate more frames” argument cause you can tell when it comes from people who don’t know animation. I used to do animation when I was like, 11 (used Pivot but didn’t really stick to it) and it takes so much longer to do frame after frame after frame cause you gotta be more and more precise with each frame otherwise it looks weird whereas you have a little more room to move (get it?) with less frames per second.
Just animate more frames
@@ashleycd6487 sigma male
As someone who used Flipnote when I was 10, I agree
Even animating simple things can take a while with interpolation.
i fucking miss pivot so much
What pisses me off the most about every comment saying "you're just too lazy" is that I am absolutely positive not a single one has made an animation before
That triggers me
I didnt make animation (only if you count the one I did with my Nintendo ds) but I think that telling animators are lazy is just bs I bet they cant sit hours on there desk drawing the same character over and over just for 15 seconds of the thing appearing on screen
I've made a few flip books in my life. and that shits hard as fuck to make sure nothing just jumps, and keeping it all smooth with eachother. Can't imagine needing to make a flip book that lasts 20 minutes let alone hours.
@@chloedegurechaff1941 that sounds nice, would want to watch it
Making this argument is the surest way for someone to announce themselves as an arrogant prick who dosen't understand anything about what they are saying yet speaks as if speaking from knowledge and experience, who doesn't understand the colossal amount of work involved and is unappreciative as a result, expecting nothing but the most pristine and premium content to be fed uninteruptedly into their mouth, content to fill the container that they are.
It is intoxicatingly arrogant, self-centered, selfish, unappreciative, and willfully ignorant.
EDIT: Entitled, that's the word I'm looking for. Like baby birds, nakes and blind and flightless, opening their mouths wide open to the sky, waiting for food to drop inside and asking for more.
Oh man. If these people love 60 FPS animations, why don’t the make them themselves? Draw 60 times in a span of 1 second. GO!
For real- honestly no amount of adhd hyperfocus on a project is gonna make me animate 60 fps. I'll stick with my comfy cozy 12 fps thank you.
I get what you are saying, but i think the, "i'd like to see you do better" argument is kinda shit;
Because you can say that about anything;
Heck, movie directors bring that argument when reviewers give them a low score and say things like, "Reviewers dont make movies, so they can't give criticize me"
@@ivancerecer5758 It also depends. Like the chef argument, they can say something since everyone eats and have the knowledge of what a good food taste like. People who dont even know the basic rules of animation can't be taken seriously. Their eyes aren't even trained to know exactly what they're seeing. Heck, I can't speak for music when I can't even tell what instrument I'm hearing - I only have a personal taste and hating a genre while saying it's objectively the worst kind of music doesn't really make me right.
I saw the tank man from like newgrounds and I thought newgrouds actually commented here XD
Anyways they have a point
@@Joneasjumbles well I DO plan on making a Newgrounds account soon but it’s all good XD
your puppet show is well done, it's so expressive despite being a doodle and is swapped out- how do you have 3 hands💀