The NCR Patrol addicted to radaway was always terrifying to me. From what I gathered from Fallout 4, radaway is a chem which nukes your body's natural flora, something like mobile chemotherapy. The fact that some armed and trained troops are just wondering the wasteland, probably transparent and barfing their guts up addicted to the stuff, is just freaky and dark. Sure why not let's have them teamed up with cannibals too while we're at it........😊
Oh, that's a shame, but I can't say I'm very surprised. It's a hugely ambitious project, trying to rebuild a game that was only partially finished to begin with. Still, I'm glad to hear that they haven't given up entirely. As always, I'm hopeful that someone will eventually be able to put something together.
It is a shame. I think they were close to done, a video by retrospective gaming said they were 50% done, a year ago. Oh well, I wonder why they scraped it.
I would have claimed that you're too warry of copyright, but considering the things other youtubers got into trouble with, I guess you're doing it right:\ Hmm, I always thought that Boulder Dome became BigMT in New Vegas. I'm a european so I have no idea how far away this town is in reality. Just considered that it was once again taken part of Van Buren scenario with progressed storyline as if events of Van Buren happened. For example Ullyseus if I recall right was born in a tribe that was protected by Twin Mothers and there is even a mention of them somewhere in New Vegas... as apparently being destroyed.
I would be a bit more casual about the image usage, but one of the sources that the documents took images from is a company that's notorious for aggressively filing copyright lawsuits. After glancing at a few of the horror stories from people who've had to deal with them in the past, I decided it was best to err on the side of caution. BigMT in New Vegas is indeed based on Boulder Dome, at least in part. It's also based on bits that were cut out of the Tibbets Prison Facility as well as the EPA Facility that was cut out of Fallout 2. So the DLC we ended up getting in New Vegas is really one big mash-up of content recycled from three different cut locations. Oh, and we'll be looking at the Twin Mothers document relatively soon. That one's Design Document 05!
Retcon Raider based on, but it's not the same location? I thought it was simply another name for BigMT before they f//cked over the whole mountain by teleporting or blowing it up? Are they based on different irl places?
TheArklyte As far, as I know, Big MT is 100% fictional (and we don't know its location, even though it should be close to Mojave due to the Cazadors' and Nightstalkers' lore), while Boulder, Denver, Colorado Springs and other cities in the Van Buren's area are Northeast of the NV area. And yes, I know Col. Springs isn't in VB, it's just that it's one of the largest towns in the state. And no, I live in Russia.
While including IBM may seem odd, knowing how big of a company they are not simply in regards to tech but to the Boulder area it makes a lot of sense why it would have been brought up. Easily have them doing government work since well they DO that. Or one of the other companies that is fictional doing some type of deal with them.
I think it was originally declared non-canon because it was written by a completely separate development team, who didn't have a very strong grasp on the setting. It's pretty much the same reason that Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel was declared non-canon. Several of the plot points in FOT, such as the depiction of the Brotherhood and the talking deathclaws, completely contradicted the lore established in the original trilogy. Fallout: Van Buren was also included plot-points that completely contradicted certain things from Tactics, such as the status of NORAD. It looks like Van Buren was actually going to make some minor parts of Tactics canon, such as the existence of Afterburner Gum and certain types of enemies. But since Van Buren ended up getting canceled, that never ended up happening. Van Buren is also technically non-canon, but a lot of the plot points have since been made official in the more recent games. Several parts of the story are referenced in Fallout: Tactics, the New Plague is re-introduced in Fallout 4, and a BOMB satellite will be appearing in Fallout 76.
Actually I did hunt down the Fort Abandon document. Had to dig a bit and only found a .PDF version of it (vs the original Word .doc files) but it's there. 62 pages with parts of it in what looks like Polish.
Yeah, I've had a couple of people send me that one in the past. I'm just not sure how legitimate it is. It's been a while since I last looked at it, but I seem to remember it mostly just compiling info lifted from other documents and interviews. Since chunks of it are in Polish, I suspect it might just be a compilation of info collected by the folks who used to run one of the Fallout wikis.
@@RetconRaider Yeah that's possible. I came across it via a link off No Mutants Allowed but couldn't find any other reference. Want to go back and see if it's what you say it is (a compilation of other documents) or something else. Thanks.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that NORAD was in Boulder. It's definitely a separate location. I stated that more clearly in the first Boulder Dome video, but I may have gotten a bit lazy this time around! I meant to state that the glowing ghouls originated from NORAD, but were wandering into Boulder.
I lived in Boulder. At the time the game design doc was drafted, IBM was probably about as big as Google (is, was) in 2010. So as a game design doc, I'd say noting IBM is a general placeholder for saying large tech companies like Google. Which is funny because Google has a bunch of offices here now. Alongside tech, Boulder also has a massive ton of worldly important environmental science research IRL. All sorts of just random critically important government-science-military things. Like you know those clocks you had in School you'd stare at to count down minutes until class ends? All of those are calibrated via radio signal from Boulder. This is an example of like science-project government-military-research I'm talking about. More specific to Fallout lore / gameplay, there's a ton of research around gov/mil (NASA) material science. So you'd probably have some sort of cutting edge power armor research for game lore here. Extrapolating game lore with IRL, kind of a common ground that both IRL and I think the game would naturally have concluded to is just how elite / expensive everything is there. Which is boring to talk about because everyone knows what expensive is... But more importantly I think are the side effects where anyone in supporting jobs gets pushed out. So like plumbers, restaurant chefs, grocery store workers.... You'll have a lot of people commuting because the pay is a lot higher, but otherwise a lot of the other customers you see are going to be either students or CEOs at the grocery store. The people working there could very well be related to someone super important, or be an extra shift for an underpaid government teacher. The lore here seems to focus on kind of merging the Government science with tech, which is basically like NASA and Google merging. Sounds OK / interesting at face value, but when you actually try to work the details out, that's so bizarre. The simplification is probably good enough for gameplay though as Google does have military contracts for example. At the time this plot was thought up, I think Boulder was a semi hippy town. So a lot of care free people kind of wandering the town and being friendly / sharing things while you have a mix of hardcore elite scientists doing space science things. IRL it has shifted primarily in the mid to later 2010's with Google coming to town which has caused the price of things to skyrocket. As a result, along with Denver, and kind of a chain of side effects you have a somewhat hippy vibe left over but some crime (raiders) coming in to try to take advantage of things as well. I could see Boulder both becoming an off-limits government research city in game, or just leave that to the dome and have the rebelling hippy people kind of policing the area against general trouble. A lot of the real community vibes kind of feel like they got completely lost though and overshadowed by somebody who essentially just read off a wikipedia page of highlights about the city or something, without really understanding the culture.
When I played fallout 4 I felt that cryogenic freezing felt like something a bit too weird for the fallout universe and it was something I wasn’t a fan of. Guess I was wrong
I think they've dabbled with cryonics in previous games, including Fallout 2 and Fallout 3. It's been portrayed pretty inconsistently, though. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's alien technology, sometimes it's not. I might do a video about it at some point, if I can ever find the time!
Retcon Raider I forgot about the cryogenic stuff in the Mothership Zeta DLC until you just said that. Idk why it felt off to me, maybe I was projecting a little too much because I’m not a fan of the concept in general. It’s one of the more boring aspects of SciFi for me personally
I dont know how I feel about the zax part of all this, maybe because im looking at this from a modern perspective where desktop computers can hold terrabytes of space I cant think of any potential research these scientists could have been doing that would be taking up enough space in the system to cause it to start deleting files.Wouldn't they have planned for this in advance? Why are they unable to backup research data on to holodisks or physical medium? EDIT: the wiki DOES state that they do start using holodisks, so my bad for glossing over that.
Ha ha, well, I think the main thing to remember is that in the Fallout universe they never really ended up switching over to microcircuits. They apparently existed, but companies considered them too fragile and expensive to use on a regular basis. So AI like ZAX were mostly cobbled together with clunky, old components like big old circuit boards, vacuum tubes, and magnetic reels. It's heavily implied that they only worked at all because the Enclave had access to alien technology - at least according to Fallout 2. That gets really muddy in the later games.
Fallout Tactics has been deemed semi canon by Bethesda saying that only the main story events and origins of the Midwest Brotherhood of Steel are canon Where on the world map was the Rocky Mountain Arsenal going to be at? Also are these glowing ghouls from Norad the same ones that you see in Denver? I didn't know of the other names for the Boulder Dome and that it would've done all those scientific discoveries before the Great War. I also forgot about Goddard and Agnes and their conflicting opinions about Viktor. I knew the government apologized and increased funding to the Dome but I thought that was because of the new plague not the Rocky Mountain Arsenal leak. I didn't know Victor had so many followers and planned on freezing and brainwashing scientists who disagreed with him or that he was going to betray the soldiers who followed him. I also didn't know the player was going to get a glimpse of Victor and his men at Tibbets. I knew Fort Abandon was one of the player bases but I didn't know Boulder Dome was going to be another or that events at the Boulder Dome would be different based on when the player would arrive. I knew about Xian but forgot her name and knew some of the grad students (forgot their names as well). I didn't know some of the other grad students. I forgot about Eddie Helen and their kids, I forgot that you could save some of their kids from their medical problems but some are doomed to die. I didn't know NCR troops would be there, or their Radaway addiction, and that they were locked out and were conspiring with the Jackals to kill the scientists. I also didn't know there would be glowing ghouls there and that they came from Norad. I didn't know Ian mentioned the Jackals in the first game and I forgot that they were cannibalistic. I knew the Jackals or the Vipers would've been in BOS 2 but didn't know which one. I didn't know all of that about the ZAX at Boulder Dome. I'm sorry this is the longest one yet
The NCR Patrol addicted to radaway was always terrifying to me. From what I gathered from Fallout 4, radaway is a chem which nukes your body's natural flora, something like mobile chemotherapy. The fact that some armed and trained troops are just wondering the wasteland, probably transparent and barfing their guts up addicted to the stuff, is just freaky and dark. Sure why not let's have them teamed up with cannibals too while we're at it........😊
Remember the Van Buren mod? Well it has been scraped. The mod author is starting over again with a new team.
Oh, that's a shame, but I can't say I'm very surprised. It's a hugely ambitious project, trying to rebuild a game that was only partially finished to begin with.
Still, I'm glad to hear that they haven't given up entirely. As always, I'm hopeful that someone will eventually be able to put something together.
It is a shame. I think they were close to done, a video by retrospective gaming said they were 50% done, a year ago. Oh well, I wonder why they scraped it.
There's Van Buren mod? Could you please give me a link?
iron mask of hell does it still have the same name? Or is it going by a new name
DAMMIT!!!
Your videos are always joy to listen to. Thanks for doing this.
I would have claimed that you're too warry of copyright, but considering the things other youtubers got into trouble with, I guess you're doing it right:\
Hmm, I always thought that Boulder Dome became BigMT in New Vegas. I'm a european so I have no idea how far away this town is in reality. Just considered that it was once again taken part of Van Buren scenario with progressed storyline as if events of Van Buren happened. For example Ullyseus if I recall right was born in a tribe that was protected by Twin Mothers and there is even a mention of them somewhere in New Vegas... as apparently being destroyed.
I would be a bit more casual about the image usage, but one of the sources that the documents took images from is a company that's notorious for aggressively filing copyright lawsuits. After glancing at a few of the horror stories from people who've had to deal with them in the past, I decided it was best to err on the side of caution.
BigMT in New Vegas is indeed based on Boulder Dome, at least in part. It's also based on bits that were cut out of the Tibbets Prison Facility as well as the EPA Facility that was cut out of Fallout 2. So the DLC we ended up getting in New Vegas is really one big mash-up of content recycled from three different cut locations.
Oh, and we'll be looking at the Twin Mothers document relatively soon. That one's Design Document 05!
Retcon Raider
based on, but it's not the same location? I thought it was simply another name for BigMT before they f//cked over the whole mountain by teleporting or blowing it up? Are they based on different irl places?
TheArklyte As far, as I know, Big MT is 100% fictional (and we don't know its location, even though it should be close to Mojave due to the Cazadors' and Nightstalkers' lore), while Boulder, Denver, Colorado Springs and other cities in the Van Buren's area are Northeast of the NV area. And yes, I know Col. Springs isn't in VB, it's just that it's one of the largest towns in the state. And no, I live in Russia.
The Jackals? Here? Huh. Very hyped for the Daughters of Hecate.
Nice video Retcon, as usual, keep the good work, While I put up to date with the battle brothers…
While including IBM may seem odd, knowing how big of a company they are not simply in regards to tech but to the Boulder area it makes a lot of sense why it would have been brought up. Easily have them doing government work since well they DO that. Or one of the other companies that is fictional doing some type of deal with them.
Okay wait why the fuck isn’t Tactics canon. I consider it canon. I also consider anything in Van Buren canon until shown otherwise. Great videos man
I think it was originally declared non-canon because it was written by a completely separate development team, who didn't have a very strong grasp on the setting. It's pretty much the same reason that Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel was declared non-canon.
Several of the plot points in FOT, such as the depiction of the Brotherhood and the talking deathclaws, completely contradicted the lore established in the original trilogy. Fallout: Van Buren was also included plot-points that completely contradicted certain things from Tactics, such as the status of NORAD.
It looks like Van Buren was actually going to make some minor parts of Tactics canon, such as the existence of Afterburner Gum and certain types of enemies. But since Van Buren ended up getting canceled, that never ended up happening.
Van Buren is also technically non-canon, but a lot of the plot points have since been made official in the more recent games. Several parts of the story are referenced in Fallout: Tactics, the New Plague is re-introduced in Fallout 4, and a BOMB satellite will be appearing in Fallout 76.
Van Buren can't be canon. It's close, but too much of the lore conflicts with New Vegas or was repurposed for the same game.
Actually I did hunt down the Fort Abandon document. Had to dig a bit and only found a .PDF version of it (vs the original Word .doc files) but it's there. 62 pages with parts of it in what looks like Polish.
Yeah, I've had a couple of people send me that one in the past. I'm just not sure how legitimate it is.
It's been a while since I last looked at it, but I seem to remember it mostly just compiling info lifted from other documents and interviews.
Since chunks of it are in Polish, I suspect it might just be a compilation of info collected by the folks who used to run one of the Fallout wikis.
@@RetconRaider Yeah that's possible. I came across it via a link off No Mutants Allowed but couldn't find any other reference. Want to go back and see if it's what you say it is (a compilation of other documents) or something else. Thanks.
If you got the files by the chance I could glance by them and see if there's anything that makes sense, if so I'll try translating them.
Just a little correction: NORAD/Cheyenne Mtn. is in Colo. Springs, not Boulder. Solid stuff as usual!
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that NORAD was in Boulder. It's definitely a separate location. I stated that more clearly in the first Boulder Dome video, but I may have gotten a bit lazy this time around!
I meant to state that the glowing ghouls originated from NORAD, but were wandering into Boulder.
Gotcha.
I lived in Boulder.
At the time the game design doc was drafted, IBM was probably about as big as Google (is, was) in 2010. So as a game design doc, I'd say noting IBM is a general placeholder for saying large tech companies like Google. Which is funny because Google has a bunch of offices here now.
Alongside tech, Boulder also has a massive ton of worldly important environmental science research IRL. All sorts of just random critically important government-science-military things. Like you know those clocks you had in School you'd stare at to count down minutes until class ends? All of those are calibrated via radio signal from Boulder. This is an example of like science-project government-military-research I'm talking about. More specific to Fallout lore / gameplay, there's a ton of research around gov/mil (NASA) material science. So you'd probably have some sort of cutting edge power armor research for game lore here.
Extrapolating game lore with IRL, kind of a common ground that both IRL and I think the game would naturally have concluded to is just how elite / expensive everything is there. Which is boring to talk about because everyone knows what expensive is... But more importantly I think are the side effects where anyone in supporting jobs gets pushed out. So like plumbers, restaurant chefs, grocery store workers.... You'll have a lot of people commuting because the pay is a lot higher, but otherwise a lot of the other customers you see are going to be either students or CEOs at the grocery store. The people working there could very well be related to someone super important, or be an extra shift for an underpaid government teacher.
The lore here seems to focus on kind of merging the Government science with tech, which is basically like NASA and Google merging. Sounds OK / interesting at face value, but when you actually try to work the details out, that's so bizarre. The simplification is probably good enough for gameplay though as Google does have military contracts for example.
At the time this plot was thought up, I think Boulder was a semi hippy town. So a lot of care free people kind of wandering the town and being friendly / sharing things while you have a mix of hardcore elite scientists doing space science things. IRL it has shifted primarily in the mid to later 2010's with Google coming to town which has caused the price of things to skyrocket. As a result, along with Denver, and kind of a chain of side effects you have a somewhat hippy vibe left over but some crime (raiders) coming in to try to take advantage of things as well. I could see Boulder both becoming an off-limits government research city in game, or just leave that to the dome and have the rebelling hippy people kind of policing the area against general trouble. A lot of the real community vibes kind of feel like they got completely lost though and overshadowed by somebody who essentially just read off a wikipedia page of highlights about the city or something, without really understanding the culture.
When I played fallout 4 I felt that cryogenic freezing felt like something a bit too weird for the fallout universe and it was something I wasn’t a fan of. Guess I was wrong
I think they've dabbled with cryonics in previous games, including Fallout 2 and Fallout 3. It's been portrayed pretty inconsistently, though.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's alien technology, sometimes it's not.
I might do a video about it at some point, if I can ever find the time!
Retcon Raider I forgot about the cryogenic stuff in the Mothership Zeta DLC until you just said that. Idk why it felt off to me, maybe I was projecting a little too much because I’m not a fan of the concept in general. It’s one of the more boring aspects of SciFi for me personally
I dont know how I feel about the zax part of all this, maybe because im looking at this from a modern perspective where desktop computers can hold terrabytes of space I cant think of any potential research these scientists could have been doing that would be taking up enough space in the system to cause it to start deleting files.Wouldn't they have planned for this in advance? Why are they unable to backup research data on to holodisks or physical medium?
EDIT: the wiki DOES state that they do start using holodisks, so my bad for glossing over that.
Ha ha, well, I think the main thing to remember is that in the Fallout universe they never really ended up switching over to microcircuits. They apparently existed, but companies considered them too fragile and expensive to use on a regular basis.
So AI like ZAX were mostly cobbled together with clunky, old components like big old circuit boards, vacuum tubes, and magnetic reels.
It's heavily implied that they only worked at all because the Enclave had access to alien technology - at least according to Fallout 2. That gets really muddy in the later games.
Fallout Tactics has been deemed semi canon by Bethesda saying that only the main story events and origins of the Midwest Brotherhood of Steel are canon
Where on the world map was the Rocky Mountain Arsenal going to be at? Also are these glowing ghouls from Norad the same ones that you see in Denver?
I didn't know of the other names for the Boulder Dome and that it would've done all those scientific discoveries before the Great War. I also forgot about Goddard and Agnes and their conflicting opinions about Viktor. I knew the government apologized and increased funding to the Dome but I thought that was because of the new plague not the Rocky Mountain Arsenal leak. I didn't know Victor had so many followers and planned on freezing and brainwashing scientists who disagreed with him or that he was going to betray the soldiers who followed him. I also didn't know the player was going to get a glimpse of Victor and his men at Tibbets. I knew Fort Abandon was one of the player bases but I didn't know Boulder Dome was going to be another or that events at the Boulder Dome would be different based on when the player would arrive. I knew about Xian but forgot her name and knew some of the grad students (forgot their names as well). I didn't know some of the other grad students. I forgot about Eddie Helen and their kids, I forgot that you could save some of their kids from their medical problems but some are doomed to die. I didn't know NCR troops would be there, or their Radaway addiction, and that they were locked out and were conspiring with the Jackals to kill the scientists. I also didn't know there would be glowing ghouls there and that they came from Norad. I didn't know Ian mentioned the Jackals in the first game and I forgot that they were cannibalistic. I knew the Jackals or the Vipers would've been in BOS 2 but didn't know which one. I didn't know all of that about the ZAX at Boulder Dome. I'm sorry this is the longest one yet
Trinston was here... .
700 pages? wow how much pages usually design documents for a game have?