@@voornaamachternaam255, thanks for the quick reply. Did you get it on a leather or metal bracelet? I had a very brief try of the blue dial with metal bracelet at my local department store and it did feel a little big, but then again it was a very brief try.
@@yuanfangqian7756 In my opinion 40mm is just fine, but ofc I can't decide for you haha. The watch itself is great value for the money I think. I have it on the metal bracelet but I might be buying a leather one in the future too!
Great video Bill. Thanks for pointing this underrated and undervalued movement out. Though not true high horology IMHO, they are great value for the money.
Nice video, I agree, the Tissot Ballade COSC it's a great collectors piece, specially for the movement, but let's not forget all the rich details in the bezel and the dial. If you value a watch by its history and quality, then this is a must have.
I definitely agree with your view on this. Functionality of the timepiece is just as important. This movement scored well in the 2013 chronometer competition if I remember correctly. Lower frequency with better accuracy means Tissot is doing it right.
Hey Mark, another added benefit is that you can see the movement more clearly with the slower frequencies. As the escape wheel is stopped and released you can see the dance of the pallet fork releasing energy to move the gear train along ... much nicer. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Thank you for an informative video. I just purchased a Tissot with this movement in it. I found such a great deal on it I could not refuse it. This movement seems to be a workhorse for entry level Swiss automatic watches. I have a Hamilton that also uses the ETA 2824-2 movement. I am finding watches in this category to generally be the best value for the buck. There is no way I can justify spending $5-$10K for a watch, but these category watches are affordable and very nice. TY MH
While I don't care for the Powermatic 80s with the silicon hairsprings, Mark, the other PM80s are as good as they get for workhorse movements. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Would you mind elaborating on this Bill? From the mechanical aspect, it seems Siliciums properties would make it an ideal material for the application.
@@V3rt1g0s From a purely practical point of view silicon is very practical. It's non-magnetic, less affected by heat and cold and maintains its shape. Quartz watches are even better at it, and as timekeepers neither can beat 'smart watches.' The watch collection hobby for me is not to get a 'more practical' nor 'more accurate' watch-my iPhone works just fine for that. The hobby is to collect watches with transitional metals used in watches since Breguet's time. The metalloids, like silicon, [and arsenic ] are fine for solving some problems (as is quartz...which is nothing but silicon and oxygen) but they take away to most interesting challenges in the hobby.
I got a Tissot Gentleman Powermatic 80 Silicium, which isn’t COSC certified, but after 3 weeks it’s running within Rolex Superlative Chronometer specs! I’m between -1.5 to +1.5 per day, we can even round that to -2/+2 and it’s still a great time keeper. I’m not sure if I got very lucky with my piece, as I don’t imagine all of them run as good as mine but I can imagine most of them are within COSC spec even if they aren’t officially certified. If anyone has experience with one, let me know!
4:26 I know it’s not often talked about much, but I think when it comes to reliability, that the Soviet watch industry did stuff like this. Raketa has developed movements post-U.S.S.R. that maintain a lower frequency compared to others at its price level, but they keep it in the spirit of the Soviet reliability, which I quite like. I think Vostoks are also at a sort middle ground in this respect. Btw, I’ve really been enjoying your channel. It’s made a lot of this watchmaking jargon that’s thrown around feel a little less daunting. I think it’s your delivery or something. Also, i really hope that TSG will eventually come around to making a Powermatic 80-like movement (in spirit i mean) that is co-axial. It would be nice to see Omega not be the only one embracing the future and pushing the evolution of mechanical watches.
I have two Tissot watches. The gentleman with a silicon spring powermatic and Couturier without the Silicone. I have been extremely impressed with both watches. The fit and finish is excellent as well as the accuracy. I think Tissot and even Hamilton’s are some of the best values in watches. Ty for your video.
I own nearly a dozen of automatic watches, Seiko, Yema, Orient, Bulova, Hamilton, Victorinox… all great watches. But when it comes to accuracy , nothing beats the Tisso Powermatic 80
Glad it was helpful Joe! One thing to keep in mind with the Powermatic 80 is that there are different grades, and you should find out which one you want. Take care, Bill
Hi, thanks for the interesting video. I’ve seen quite a few negative comments on different channels about this movement. I think the criticism really comes from Tissot’s use of polymer parts in some of the Powermatic movements and some see the lack of an adjustable escapement as a negative. I myself have a Hamilton which has another version of the Powermatic movement - Ref H-40. It has the same 21,600 bph, 80 hour power reserve, but no polymer parts. Same free sprung balance wheel and no escapement adjustment. It may not be COSC but the watch runs bang on with less than 1 second a day gained. I think it’s a highly underrated movement.
Hi Peakrider... I suppose that the silicon hairsprings used in some may be a problem and the 3Hz frequency is not everyone's choice (it is mine, and so is 2.5Hz). Yes, some of the polymer parts would be at odds with high quality in traditional watchmaking ... I am surprised about the adjustable escapement. What exactly is adjustable on escapements? It is interesting. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci ah sorry, might be me getting my terminology wrong. I’m talking about the adjustment used in the regulation of the movement. I think the small lever that has a + and - on it adjusts the hairspring, am I right?, not the escapement.
@@peakrider4886 That's the regulator for adjusting using curb regulators. You cannot regulate (adjust) a free-sprung balance nor balances using silicon hair springs without making weight adjustments. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci that’s what I understood about all the Swatch Powermatic movements in Tissots and Hamilton and Certinas, etc. They are regulated at the factory, but any additional adjustments that may be required in the future, if the watch runs fast or slow, is by an adjustment of the weights on the balance wheel. Sounds a very fiddly job, but for anyone who says those Powermatic movements can’t be regulated, that’s wrong. They can, it’s just more tricky. And probably best done by an experienced watch repairer.
I picked up a Tissot Ballade powermatic 80 cosc rosegold two tone on bracelet for £626, it has a silicon hairspring,3hz frequency and 80 hour power reserve a great deal imho what do you guys think? Now onto HH, I feel people in the watch community don't appreciate this movement enough due to it being developed by the swatch group if we step back for a minute and see the movement in isolation its an ingenious bit of tech and would cost thousands in the equivalent micro brand eg Christopher Ward or even a Tag or an Oris . The buying power of the Swatch group has allowed them to create a chronometer certified movement in a sub $1000 watch this should be applauded as a feat in itself regardless if you think its HH or not. Finally if this movement was used exclusively in a brand positioned at a higher price point than Tissot would peoples opinion change? It seems many in our community see HH and unobtainable as inextricably linked concepts . Im glad The Swatch group are out too change this misconception rant over!
Hi Adam, I quite worrying about "HH" except insofar as collectors found some aspect that demonstrated high horology like the Powermatic80. Sounds like you found a good buy. Cheers, Bill
Hi Bill, I'm checking on a watch I bought today. The Hamilton Khaki King 2 with the H40 movement. It seems like a good watch and I bought it from the renown engraver David Wade Harris in Texas. Not something I would do to a valuable watch but his work is beautiful and I don't own anything like it. Look him up, interesting. I remembered you like the low frequency slower beat watches.
I tried Gentlemen and prx and didn’t like the design that much as opposed to the older design of PRC200. I think Tissot discontinued the Powermatic 80 for prc200, but some countries still sell them on the Tissot website. Ended up getting prc200 powermatic 80 for $240 on eBay. That’s a steal imo. After 14 days, the total result was 4 seconds ahead. Amazing.
All I know is about the PRX with the powermatic 80 and it's been great so far. I bought more so the way it looks. Now having a base like ETA movement, to had to be okay. $675 retail is pretty nice😊
Watches are a funny thing lol - I have a few older Citizen Eco Drive 2100’s, an Omega Seamaster and a Rolex GMT Master II - as I will be sending the Rolex in for service and refinishing I got the bug to buy a lower priced watch - so I grabbed a Seiko PADI (love it) and also a Steinhart Homage Ocean One (also love it) but the Tissot Seastar 1000 I am over the moon with - it gives me that pleasure and makes me happy like the Rolex does (instant connection) and I really love this movement! Edit: o don’t know the details of the differences of an officially certified movement like my GMT Master II vs this Swatch group modified ETA but I wouldn’t be very surprised if the quality differences were closer than the price differences lol!
Recently got a Mido with Caliber 80 (Mido's version of PM80). Accuracy is fantastic, averaging better (less) than +1spd. It astounds me that so many 'watch enthusiasts' hate this movement.
i have had two Powermatics for over a year: Seastar and Chemin (COSC cert) which i bought gray market. The principal complaint i have about them is that only Swatch can regulate them. I sent the Chemin to Swatch USA since it wasn't keeping COSC time (not far off though); i must say that they did the decent thing and, even though i told them i bought Gray Market, the regulated it for free including shipping. The Seastar, at 8-10 seconds slow a day, was bugging me so i paid $88 to Swatch to regulate it; OMG! it is within a sec/day now or less. Since i roll from dress watches to casual the 80 hr reserve helps dresser logistics. It is kind of a pain to remember to rotate the other watches on the winders; no need for these. Anyway i think a great movement even if i don't know why i should care about free sprung balance wheels. George Daniels did i guess.
Nice video Bill. I like the Tissot model Gentleman Powermatic 80 Silicium. This model actually features the Powermatic 80 with a silicon hairspring. Not COSC certified, but for $700 list price I’d say good value.
Thanks John, there seem to be several versions of the Powermatic 80, and depending on which one you get, the movement has different features. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci sir do you think it's a matter of time for the "gentleman" to be COSC or it's not meant to be certified chronometer even though it has the PM80? Thanks
@@mouhrissani8588 In my opinion, the extra costs of the COSC may not be warranted: the PM80 has no regulator that can be hand-adjusted, but is done by a Tissot computer, and so it's probably going to do well without the COSC testing. FP Journe, with some of the best watches made, has never deigned to have any of his certified by COSC. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci I recently got the Certina Powermatic 80 Big date special edition (a mouthfull of a name). It's a beatiful watch with an understated design based on theyr watches from the 1960s. I love the watch and the movement! (It's not Chrono certified though. I don't know if they couldn't reach the certification or if they could but wanted to make the watch more affordable...)
Interesting vid. I have a Mido with a movement that’s in the same family as the Powermatic 80. From a performence standpoint it’s the best movement I have. I can wear the watch for six months straight without having to set the time, some positions it gains a few seconds some pos it loses a few. Watch builds a power reserve fast lasts a true 80 hrs. Only concern is if any watchmaker can service movement since there are no regulating screws on balance ?
Robert, I didn't know there was a Powermatic 80 Mido ... I checked out the Mido Multifort, and for the price you get a great looking and running watch! Thanks for the tip! Bill
@@relosapulso I recently bought a Mido Chronometer Jubilee with the Powermatic 80 movement. It’s the one with the silicon hairspring. It’s +9 seconds per month. Btw, inquire with Swatch Group what the maintenance would be.
As always a great topic for us to think about. I think a lot of you tubers who recommend $500 watches from overnight companies with crappy movements should be looking at these watches and understanding why this movement is better than a cheapo STP or MIYOTA. youtube overlooks the great value in Tissot/Longines/etc
Just bought the men's Ballade, silver dial with a brown faux gator leather band. Having a prior unpleasant experience withe another Swatch line "H". Most importantly this Tissot is just a tad fast at + 1.5 seconds a day. I bought this online, there were photos but seeing the dial in front of me was dazzling (the photos don't capture the silver inner ring on the dial. Bought this at retail, full 3 year Tissot warranty and the COSC papers. A few weeks ago. I was surprised that a place I used to work had this on sale and I have a lifetime discount there so it was too good a deal for a chronometer to pass up. Really nice detailing of the case too, there is beveling added to the side so it is very comfortable. A classic looking modern automatic. I found another bargain there, another Tissot with a Powermatic 80, a black dial, and a leather clasp band. No silicone balance spring but I'm hoping for the best.
Hi Timothy, it looks like your comment was cut at the end. A 'tad' fast at 1.5 seconds a day... I wish my watches would run with that accuracy! Take care, Bill
My cosc mode ran 0.0 per day until the balance staff fell out. Popped back of case off (case made in Hong Kong) and the staff was just floating around. I replaced it and it’s all whacked out of time, to fix? Full service $450. I paid $750 for it. Guess I’ll be trying my hand at regulating it
The Certina DS Big Date 60th Anniversary with a Nivachron balance spring developed between Swatch Group and AP... its the affordable Glashütte Original with a Panorama window
Hi Bill. Great video. I have a Ballade with the COSC and a Seastar with the regular movement. Both are great watches but the Ballade is definitely more accurate. Luckily I was able to get the Ballade on special here in Sydney for $780AUD. I think that the COSC movement is one of the best on the market considering the technology and price. The only thing is I think that I will need to send it to Tissot for servicing rather than letting my local watchmaker work on it. Also I heard that when sent to Tissot they replace the movement with a refurbished movement rather than overhauling it. Not sure about this though.
Peter, you got a great price on the Ballade! Usually, if there's an ETA based in a watch, most local watchmakers can handle it...check before sending it to a Tissot service center unless they have one in Australia. Take care, Bill
I have one and my watchmaker is totally capable of servicing it and get original spare parts if needed. He is licenced and went trough intensive training at Tissot's facility in Switzerland. It might be harder to find one there, across the ocean, but in general every watchmaker who can service an ETA can do a powermatic 80 with ease, its not rocket sience after all. The only issue is if the watchmaker is not licensed he/she wont be able to order original spare parts, so the only option then would be to get a chinese clone movement from aliexpress for about 100 usd and use it as a donor. Its not as bad as it sounds, since those chinese movements are quite amazing for what they actually are. Also - dont believe what people say about powermatic 80 in the forums, lots of false information is floating around.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the ETA 7750. I did buy a Powermatic 80 Couturier Day/Date in Silver with the newer 21,000 VPH 23 Jewel Version(I have already ordered a Silver Rotor Version from a friend in Germany to get this black one switched😜),… But I yearn for the 7750 showing full Day/Date function. (I understand Tissot has modified the 7750- and it’s not “actually” a ETA 7750, but I want that movement like “some men want a Rolex”, because my Grandfather had one in a Longines with one, and Adored that Watch!!! One day!!! It’s hard to collect Vintage German Cameras AND Swiss Watches, like riding two 🐴🐎 with one butt. Hope your having a great new year all! (Pirating my wife’s UA-cam BTW).
Hi Michelle, I look at the 7750 like I look at the ETA-6497/98 ... a good solid movement. However, I'm the wrong person to ask since I do not care for chronographs ... except I wouldn't mind having a AgenGraphe-based movement in an HMC case. Take care, Bill
Thanks Sir, for your time and consideration to reply! I respect your taste, and I too usually end up buying a clean face with a day or day/date function. I got caught up in the amazing amount of complications for the amazing price, but have never pulled the trigger- because of the “busy” look. I do listen to advice, and read forums/threads, and I think I am going to pass on the Valjoux 7750 for that very reason. A watch should be simple enough on the dial to look down, an immediately know the time, without deciphering out distractions. I agree, and have paused looking at 7750 watches for the moment. I’m not a collector- I just wanted a good work watch(casual), and a “Date-Night” - more formal watch. Patience is a Virtue;) Hope you’re having an EXCELLENT weekend! Best Regard, -Kyle (Michelle’s UA-cam Pirating Husband)
Just got a Certina DS Action Diver Powermatic 80 at the start of the month. A little over two weeks later, and it has lost just 15 seconds. How is that for a non-COSC movement?😁 To say that I am happy is an understatement.
Hey Robert that's great to hear! The value of a watch is not how much you pay for it but how much you enjoy it. Sounds like you got a million dollar watch...Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@relosapulso yes. I have since moved to CONUS and have found out that in cold temperatures it is fast by 20-30sec a month, so it evens out. It is on a Marathon Italian rubber strap now. Really happy with the performance.
@@robertm8401 wow even in cold still perfect accuracy been skeptic about the plastic or nylon movements tho is it really true? I know for sure that the spring in that piece is titanium for hot and cold temp
@@relosapulso they have a bit of plastic on the earlier ones like mine but I think the newer ones don't, but I'm not sure. There seem to be no issues with the early ones, it seems. The later ones have the Nivachron spring, those are antimagmetic.
You’re turning me into a watch nerd Bill. 👍🏻. Thanks for the info. I have this Tissot and love it. Love to see your opinion on a popular watch at a similar price point :- Seiko SARX033. What are the Seiko movements like ?
I was looking to get a new Date just or OP and was getting the Rolex Run Around from the AD. Got fed up and stumbled across a two tone Ballade. I bought it on a whim for 500 and it's so good that I don't want a Rolex anymore.
Beware, plastic parts! I wanted to buy a Tissot for the Powermatic 80 movement. But the escapement is made of plastic! So I decided to buy a Mido Caliber 80, with the same movement, but with steel escape wheel and anchor, and two rubies at the ends of anchor.
Great video how would you compare the Muhle Glashutte sw200 witj woodpecker regulation to the Powermatic 80 in terms of quality..? As I am looking at getting either yhe Hamilton Frogman 41mm or the Muhle Glashutte Panova... Thanks in advance thanks 🙏
There's a Certina DS-1 Powermatic 80 chronometer. It seems like there is only one version in the whole DS-1 Powermatic 80 (automatic) range. It looks very attractive - I wish I could afford it. I forgot to add the model number, which is C029.408.11.081.00
Hi Ian, yes it looks like Tissot and Certina are the current Powermatic 80 watches now. Check this out: watchbase.com/search#q=Powermatic%2080 Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci That's some amount of work and research they've done at Watchbase. It looks like a great resource, thanks Bill. I wonder how easy it was to come by this sort of information before the Internet? I'm guessing it would have been speciality magazines/word of mouth.
All the top watchmakers use low frequency because they like to use less power. Less power means smaller barrel. They like to produce slim watches considering the complication their watches have. Great video as always.
@L'orologeria è finita No they do not use lower frequencies for smaller barrels. Where did you get that idea from? It sounds like a guess. Here's is a video you need to see where they were actually asked why the lower Hertz fequency: ua-cam.com/video/NX9vQRC_hh4/v-deo.html Now what did they say? I would like to see a reference to your claim since it doesn't sound like anything a top tier watchmaker would say. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Hi Bill, the reference of my claim is your video it self. Almost all of them have said the reason of the lower frequency is to improve the power reserve. What I'm saying is to avoid to increase the barrel. Those two elements are part of the same equation.
@@lorologeriaefinita8295 Yes, they did mention a longer charge, and some, a bigger balance (Kari Voutilainen); so now I understand your comment, though I do not recall any of them saying a goal was smaller barrels, though certainly an added advantage. (I think any reduction in barrel size is epiphenomenal, but it could be one taken into consideration for the other features of the movement.) One of the reasons I found most interesting was that "you could see the movement better with a slower frequency"- pride in craftsmanship. Kindest regards, Bill
Hey Bill, what are your thoughts on the potential longevity of the Powermatic 80? Do you think Swatch also developed the movement to be used for longer serving intervals than the standard 2428? And how would you conpare the Powermatic 80 to Seiko's 3hz 6R and 4R movements thanks!
Hey Chi-Town, I don't know that much about either the 6R or the 4R; but the movement in my Christiaan van der Klaauw is based on a Seiko 4L but runs at 4Hz (rats!). So, I need to learn more about the 6R and 4R. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci True Bill. No one should discount Seiko altogether. I purchased a pre- Powermatic Tissot PRS 516. The watch is fine, but alas, rather large and heavy for my flimsy wrist. All the best.
The rectangular ones i really like. But is a slightly lower frequency and a freesprung balance the entry point for High Horology? My gut feelig says HH should at least try to modify something old in a new way or invent something, well come up with a new idea. Sometimes it is just overall perfection on the handcrafting level. This alone seems a bit meh. (Just got my Reverso. I am in love now...)
Hi Sina, the Powermatic 80 does not have an ETAChron regulator like most ETA movements. They are laser-regulated at the factory, but you can regulate them by turning the screws on the balance spoke (arm). Unless your Powermatic 80 is way off, I wouldn't mess with it, but if you do need to adjust it, do so without moving the balance and use a minimal pressure on the screws...turning them ever so slightly. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I think what it is they are doin this to get more of a selection of ppl into collecting on the affordable scale sort of speak because they know everybody can’t afford the higher end of watches like Rolex patek Philippe and some of the others.. I could be wrong but that’s just my thought on it good video I always love watching your videos they are very informative for sure..
Hi Kenneth, I probably rely too much on the lower frequencies to indicate better movements, and since the Powermatic 80 lowered the frequency to increase the charge to 80 hours, it got my attention. You might be exactly right about getting more affordable watches for collectors and at the same time providing better movement. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Hi Mario. I'm a big fan of the Tissot Heritage Petite Seconde-with a nice big Unitas/ETA 6498 movement-one of the best buys around. They're very reasonably priced, and I think they're fine. Here's a great deal on one: www.ashford.com/tissot-t1194051603701.html?source=370000001&CAWELAID=120016340000055508&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-K2MBhC-ARIsAMtLKRv_EBAKHOhflFxXd9cMYX95DCi4qulwkCxYo-cEUPgdE5EM43rWv9AaAn0fEALw_wcB Brand new and with an additional 11% off. What's not to like? Take care, Bill
They have some incredible deals David. A very cool movement in an affordable watch-looks like your figured out how to beat the system and get a great watch! What color did you get? Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Check out this video Alpejon where I interviewed some top watchmakers whose watches are under 3Hz: ua-cam.com/video/NX9vQRC_hh4/v-deo.html Take care, Bill😷
Curious to hear where you think the sweet spot is from a price perspective in automatic watches. Where do prices get inflated? Is it based on in-house movements? Is it the overpricing of watches with a ETA 2824/ Sellita SW-200 movement inside? How do you identify price points for different movements (Miyota 9000 series, NH-35, 2824/ SW-200/ Valjoux 7750, etc)?
Egg, it depends of what resources are put into the movement compared to the price. The Powermatic 80 was developed between Swatch & Tissot, bringing the frequency down to 3Hz and extending the charge to 80 hours; so, not off-the-shelf exactly. For some, they pay a good deal for the marketing and very little for the product. Take care, Bill
WatchArtSci except that they are now using that movement across the Swatch group. That movement has become an off the shelf movement as it is now available in Tissot, Certina, Hamilton, and Rado watches. It may be an innovation, but it’s certainly not a unique item anymore...
Bill I'm so happy to hear you feel that way so now you can trade me for your H. Moser for my Tissot COSC certified one at that .😂😂😂😂 Just kidding Bill I don't own a Tissot. 😉
Does Tissot design some fashionable cases then stick modified ETA 2824’s in them. Or do they design a case to fit perfectly and complement the movement, like Moser do?.....
John, Tissot was involved with Swatch and ETA in the modification and development of the Powermatic 80. There is a general size for most movements so that if someone develops a movement, it will fit in a certain size case. Take care, Bill
I am thinking of getting a tissot le locle. I find it to be a beautiful watch. It has a powermatic 80 without cosc or the silicon. What are your thoughts on that watch?
Hi Babylon, the Swatch Systems 51 cannot be serviced, but the Powermatic 80 can. Here's one of several videos showing how: ua-cam.com/video/0IfezaKoHds/v-deo.html Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Hello, any certified ETA watchmaker can easily service a Powermatic 80 movement. It doesn’t have a regulator screw but there are other ways to regulate the watch when serviced. My Tissot with a PM80 was serviced and regulated by Shami Fine watchmaking in Fairfield NJ they are true watchmakers not just jewelers and my watch no runs consistently +2.
@@michaelriera6277 Thanks for that info! I always prefer to have service done locally: it's cheaper and quicker. Good to hear that about the Powermatic 80. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I undersood that C07.111 has 23 jewles and some plastic parts and isn’t fully servicable by indys, while C07.611 is 25 jewels and all metal parts. Can someone tell is it C07.111 fully servicable? Thank you. P.S bought Le Locle with 23 jewels, beauty 😊
Here you go Jedi: C07.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement. C07.6XX; these have a regular escapement. C07.8XX; these have a silicon hair spring. Take care, Bill
Watz, you use the balance wheel weight screws-two on the balance wheel. To adjust the beat rate, you can adjust it with slight adjustments on the little arm on the balance shaft. (Video uses a screwdriver for both, but I'd use a peg wood stick or toothpick for the beat rate adjustment.) Here's a video that shows how to make adjustments on the Powermatic 80. ua-cam.com/video/oPf042EIyF0/v-deo.html Take care, Bill
Hey, I’m a uni graduate looking to buy my first “luxury watch on a student budget”. I’m confused between the tissot tradition powermatic 80 open heart, tissot visodate powermatic 80, and the tissot Carson premium powermatic 80. Any suggestions why one is better than the other? I quite like the looks of the tissot tradition open heart one most, what do you make of that seen as you’re far more knowledgeable in the watch world than myself?
Nikhil, check out the Tissot Chronometer Powermatic 80 COSC. ( www.tissotwatches.com/en-us/t1084081605700.html ) That will give you a double horological premium in a 3Hz watch with a COSC chronometer rating. Take care and be safe, Bill😷 (You should be able to find a better deal for the same watch on the secondary market.)
Habring is an interesting example too. Price: Not HH. Movement, well one could argue they only buy the gear train, everything else is handmade - so in between. Finishing very good but not Lange level. Well the rest of patriotism that exists in me and my meeting with them says: High Horology.
Hi Reverso-Man! I'll take a hand made, highly accurate watch by Richard Habring any day over most any watch! Not too concerned with Manufacturer's Definition of HH ... we can have a Collector's Definition! Cheers, Bill
Having handled and worn the Seastar, I think it's a bit overpriced. It's not an ugly watch, but it doesn't really know what it wants to be with all the polished surfaces on, basically, a diver. Plus the clasp on the metal bracelet is a disgrace at this price-point. The rubber-strap option looks the nicest, but even that one is a bit ... unbalanced I guess? For example: The indices seem a bit too small and/or placed too close to the outer rim of the dial. Re the movement .... I really couldn't care less if it had 40 or 80 hours of reserve ... once you let it get down to 40, it will probably run much worse anyway so you'll need to keep it wound and/or on the winder if you don't wear it daily. Just like you would have to do if it only had 40 hours on tap. What I would care about is the difference in second-hand movement ... I'd much rather have the 4Hz sweep than 80 hours of power reserve at a jerkier 3 Hz. Especially in a watch that's costing $500 - $700.
Hi 1SaG ... you mention a "jerkier 3Hz" ... Isn't it interesting that all the top watchmakers use 3Hz or less frequencies. I guess they need to talk to you. In the meantime, I suggest you get your 4Hz mechanical watch ... they're the most common and mass produced. If you're at all interested in what top tier watchmakers use, check this out. : ua-cam.com/video/NX9vQRC_hh4/v-deo.html Take care, Bill
The Certina DS-1 Big Date Powermatic 80 looks like an engineer's office watch...eye-catching features are the lugs-beautiful the way they gently but solidly curve around the wrist. The Certina DS PH200M is a surprise! It's a sports watch/diver that doesn't look a thing like the Submariner. I like the symmetry of the watch. Cheers, Bill
Dominick, it's time we re-think our own values in horology ... in part its the craftsmanship, but I don't think the finishing is the most important, and to a large extent that's what has happened. Cheers, Bill
Moreshwar, I'm no fan of silicon in a mechanical watch even though it is a fully amagnetic element. Otherwise, silicon has been used in a number of HH watches and only a few bat an eye. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Tissot argues that the silicon balance spring makes the watch more accurate because it does not react to magnetism and also requires less maintenance/need for lubrication. What do you think about this? Why aren't you a fan of silicon in a mechanical watch?
@@georgechau6800 If we need accuracy, we've got quartz and smart watches, and while a non-magnetic hairspring is a good thing for accuracy ... it's a step toward a more plasticized mechanical watch. Niobium/titanium hairsprings are non-magnetic as well and keep accurate . However, the Powermatic 80 is an innovative movement and would be an ideal office watch. Take care, Bill
@Chris No it's not a misunderstanding ... it's a choice I've made. Silicon is a metalloid; not a transition metal. I prefer the latter-from Titanium to Gold. Silicon springs cannot be adjusted by a watchmaker but only replaced, often at the factory. I know all of the non-magnetic and heat/cold advantages of silicon and the fact that Patek Philippe has silicon in its watches. I have nothing against them; they're just not a choice I'd take in traditional watchmaking. So enjoy your silicon balances and springs ... I'm sure they're more accurate than my traditional movements. Understand that I have nothing against silicon in watches, like the Powermatic 80 or even the Patek Philippe. Just not my cup of tea. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I think if we are going to use the term high horology we should use it in the context it was intended as equivalent to haute couture, haute cuisine and high jewellery -- that is, creativity, luxury "ingredients" and obvious manual craftsmanship to an obvious even excessive degree. However, we need other better terms to define those watches that are innovative, interesting, collectable and offering enhanced performance. Let's not try to shoehorn those qualities into the term high horology where they don't belong. Think about this... there are many SUVs faster in a straight line and around a track than a Mazda Miata (MX-5) but one is a sports car and the other isn't. It's just apples and oranges, non-overlapping magisteria.
Jeremy, all of the "haute" adjective items were not any less generated for marketing purposes than "Haute Horlogerie." To revive the meaning of Haute Horlogerie is to move the substance to the most substantive aspects of a watch-its movement. I've considered Horlogerie intéressante (interesting horology), but that may be an even more elusive term than HH. As for analogies ... let's drop the car analogies, and consider setting your own course. When you were young, your mother dressed you, but at some point you decided you wanted your own style. This is what I am proposing-quit letting Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie tell us what we should want and decide for ourselves. Further, I think we should be more inclusive, and something like the Powermatic 80 may help us do that. Take care, Bill
I do have a question, does Roger Dubois easy diver Chrono with lamina movement has the same quality as VC Chrono and Patek Phillipe because they had Hallmark of Geneve?
Hi Mohamed, I don't know why not. The Lemania movements are excellent; so I wouldn't worry, but collectors will pay more for watches with the Geneva Seal. Take care, Bill
I don't think this watch challenges the definition of High Horology in the sense that it should be considered High Horology. It challenges the definition of High Horology in that it packs a lot of features, improvements, and in some cases a COSC rating. Too many high horology watches are highly modified standard movements with machine finishing and questionable dial/hands/case/band/bracelet quality. In the same way, how many High Horology watches have great cases, hands, dials, and movement finishing, but all applied to a Valjoux movement that has not seen an any significant innovation in the last 50 years? And how many of those have seen an actual decline in actual overall finishing?
The frequency is not the issue for me. The fact that the powermatic 80 has plastic components that make it less servicable and less durable makes me cynical about the movement.
Hi Blogo, good question. The regulation on on a Powermatic 80.111 (and other C07-based movements) is not in the tension of the hairspring but in two weights on the balance wheel. The free sprung balance wheels cannot be regulated without some knowledge of how the balance weights are adjusted. Those on the Powermatic 80 are adjusted at the factory with a computer getting the balance just right. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci But I could not adjust those weights at all? Thank you for your response! It would be frustrating for me to learn that this is not adjustable by me. I would think of it as a kind of mechanical version of a quartz watch - highly accurate, but for me, untouchable (if that makes sense)
@@BlogofTheW3st with a screwdriver you could physically adjust the weights ... but you'd need the knowledge and skills to get it right. If you want a great watch that is very affordable that you can adjust; check out the Tissot Heritage Petite Seconds ( www.ashford.com/tissot-t1194051603700.html?source=370000001&CAWELAID=120016340000055508&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkqSlBhDaARIsAFJANkic-cVXL2CkdYEPHhUAMGLVTTnnVBc0f_Fn6APLljPRYv-thl9IEGMaAoerEALw_wcB ) It has an ETA 6498-1 that runs at 18,000 so/hr. With the slower frequency not only can you see the movement elements in motion, your service visits will be less. Take care, Bill
Hey Jim, the Tissot story is an interesting one. At one time Tissot and Omega were under the same "roof...so to speak." They decided that Tissot would be the "affordable" watch and Omega would be the "quality" watch. Along the way, a lot happened. Omega got the co-axial (George Daniels) escapement, and Omega landed on the moon. So this gave Tissot a little more room to up its game, and I think they have. Keep in mind that both Tissot and Omega are under the Swatch umbrella, and ultimately, Swatch calls the shots. When they first came up with the Powermatic 80 idea, the Swatch people and Tissot people worked together to develop a Tissot for the watch-not just dropping the movement in a Tissot case. One of my favorite watches is my Harry Winston Premier Bi-retrograde... also owned by Swatch. A lot of collectors won't touch a Harry Winston with a ten-foot pole thinking it a "jewelry watch" and not a real watch. To a great extent that's exactly true because HW has no HW-manufactured caliber. In my watch is a Girard-Perregaux movement with a retrograde device made by Agenhor. So, I really have a watch with a HW-case and a GP movement with a retrograde module by Jean-Marc Wiederrecht. That would be the same way I'd look at the Tissot with the Powermatic 80. No one (except jewelry nuts) will get excited about a Harry Winston watch; but a module by Agenhor... that's an altogether different story! Cheers, Bill
I'm wearing Certina DS Action diver Powermatic 80, C07.111, and I'm wondering does this have plastic escapement and pallet fork or silicon one. Certina just said it's synthetic. I've been searching all over the internet and I couldn't find a single photo of these parts, only plastic Sistem51 ones. Btw I's not COSC certified watch, but it's pretty damn accurate, around +1,2 secs fast a day.
Jazz1ba, there's a lot of carbon fiber/ceraics. Used for their non-magnetic properties.. Maybe that's what it is? Take care, and don't worry about COSC...F.P. Journe never deigned to let them test his watches. Cheers, Bill
High horology has to have more than this. I liken it to the automotive indstry where innovation always starts in the higher end market and then drops down to all other cars - like anti-lock braking.
Richard, I think we need to stop letting the (Richemont-sponsored) Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie tell us what we should want. Not a car analogy. It's like when you stop letting your mother dress you and develop your own style. We need our own style. Cheers, Bill
Meh... I purchased a steinhart which housed an eta 2893-2 élaboré regulated to 5 positions straight out the new box or was +12 seconds a day, 3 months later still running that fast, so it's now for sale. I then purchased a bulova high frequency quartz which runs at +/- 10 seconds a year. I do like an automatic but hate inaccuracy.
Hey Fractal, mechanical watches are not for those with OCD. Get a smart watch wired into an atomic clock. However, I do like Steinhart because, they tell you what you're buying, and an ETA 2893-2 (3Hz, no?) élaboré probably is as good as you'd want for a mechanical. Take care, Bill
Yes, Aries. The Mido calibre 80 is based on the ETA C07.821, which is the designation of the Powermatic 80. The Caliber 80 Si is so named because the 'Si' indicates 'silicon' ... which is why the Powermatic 80 is so accurate at 3Hz. Take care, Bill
hello, thank you. ı wonder if C07.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement and C07.8XX; these have a silicon hair spring are different or similiar as long as it is powermatic80 ? ı mean ı will buy one
@@watchartsci on watchbase we site you advised says movement code which has "C07.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement and C07.8XX; these have a silicon hair spring" for example T086.407.16.051.00 and T108.408.16.037.00 is quality same because same? movement only difference the part synthetic and escapement.
@@watchartsci ı mean as long as powermatic 80 is all models high horology ? or which is better ? because watch base says: C07.811 description 'Powermatic 80' movement with silicon balance spring. Within the Powermatic family of movement's there are -thus far- three different levels; C07.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement. C07.6XX; these have a regular escapement. C07.8XX; these have a silicon balance spring.
Thank you for the video. Could you please tell je, why in ETA C07.111 are only 23 jeweils and plastic parts and in ETA C07.601 25 jeweils , and No plastic parts? Pallet fork is of metal with two additional jeweils. Does it mean the ETA C07.111 is cheaper and worse movement?
Kamil, the number of jewels reflects the number moving shafts. Jewels are used because of their hardness; so more jewels doesn't mean better-just more friction points. The rubies used are all man-made and aren't worth that much anyway-they're not precious stones. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hamilton did the sane thing. I told this to you several times. They simply don't use the plastic escapement and not COSC on most of them. My question is, should they truly objectively considered as high horology though? Or should they be considered as Mid-horology?(I find mid level horology more fitting for low end Swatch group watches.) I own a Hamilton 7753 modified movement I am pretty satisfied with the time, it is only running a little less COSC standards inaccurate without being COSC standard. Well I am going to say my definition of high horology again. It should have a high technicality(an absolute criteria) and certain level of finishing(there are exceptions) in a watch.
High horology should take in context mechanical chronograph and their complications. The 7753 is an offspring of the 7750, these movement are very robust and reliable , is high horology defined by the case the watch is built in? If it’s made out of gold or silver? Food for thought!
I think they are, I had a Hamilton but I sold it because I like to watch a smoother second hand. It’s a great watch but it’s not smooth like I like it , reminds me of the seiko movements.
![[EN] The TISSOT Powermatic 80 movement](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hHGi3xt1PAQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[EN] The TISSOT Powermatic 80 movement](/img/tr.png)
I just got the tissot gentleman Powermatic 80 silicium. I love it!
Voornaam, Congratulations man! Very cool watch with the free sprung balance! Cheers, Bill
Hi, just want a quick inquiry. I have a 6.1 inch wrist size. Would this be too watch be too big?
@@yuanfangqian7756 I think that will be fine! I don't have big wrists and it fits great
@@voornaamachternaam255, thanks for the quick reply. Did you get it on a leather or metal bracelet? I had a very brief try of the blue dial with metal bracelet at my local department store and it did feel a little big, but then again it was a very brief try.
@@yuanfangqian7756 In my opinion 40mm is just fine, but ofc I can't decide for you haha. The watch itself is great value for the money I think. I have it on the metal bracelet but I might be buying a leather one in the future too!
Great video Bill. Thanks for pointing this underrated and undervalued movement out. Though not true high horology IMHO, they are great value for the money.
Bruce, Saturday (AM) we'll be having our live stream about who's telling us what is HH? We'll get 'em! Cheers, Bill
I bought a Powermatic recently. Like ur gentle presentation style
Oh no! I don't want to be one of those fan boys! How do you like it Graeme? Take care, Bill
Nice video, I agree, the Tissot Ballade COSC it's a great collectors piece, specially for the movement, but let's not forget all the rich details in the bezel and the dial. If you value a watch by its history and quality, then this is a must have.
Hi JGP, the The Tissot Ballade COSC is a good office watch for everyday use. As far as the details and history, they are well priced. Take care, Bill
I definitely agree with your view on this. Functionality of the timepiece is just as important. This movement scored well in the 2013 chronometer competition if I remember correctly. Lower frequency with better accuracy means Tissot is doing it right.
Hey Mark, another added benefit is that you can see the movement more clearly with the slower frequencies. As the escape wheel is stopped and released you can see the dance of the pallet fork releasing energy to move the gear train along ... much nicer. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
That is a great point Bill. I completely forgot about that, but it is definitely a plus.
Thank you for an informative video. I just purchased a Tissot with this movement in it. I found such a great deal on it I could not refuse it. This movement seems to be a workhorse for entry level Swiss automatic watches. I have a Hamilton that also uses the ETA 2824-2 movement. I am finding watches in this category to generally be the best value for the buck. There is no way I can justify spending $5-$10K for a watch, but these category watches are affordable and very nice. TY MH
While I don't care for the Powermatic 80s with the silicon hairsprings, Mark, the other PM80s are as good as they get for workhorse movements. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Would you mind elaborating on this Bill? From the mechanical aspect, it seems Siliciums properties would make it an ideal material for the application.
@@V3rt1g0s From a purely practical point of view silicon is very practical. It's non-magnetic, less affected by heat and cold and maintains its shape. Quartz watches are even better at it, and as timekeepers neither can beat 'smart watches.' The watch collection hobby for me is not to get a 'more practical' nor 'more accurate' watch-my iPhone works just fine for that. The hobby is to collect watches with transitional metals used in watches since Breguet's time. The metalloids, like silicon, [and arsenic ] are fine for solving some problems (as is quartz...which is nothing but silicon and oxygen) but they take away to most interesting challenges in the hobby.
I got a Tissot Gentleman Powermatic 80 Silicium, which isn’t COSC certified, but after 3 weeks it’s running within Rolex Superlative Chronometer specs! I’m between -1.5 to +1.5 per day, we can even round that to -2/+2 and it’s still a great time keeper. I’m not sure if I got very lucky with my piece, as I don’t imagine all of them run as good as mine but I can imagine most of them are within COSC spec even if they aren’t officially certified. If anyone has experience with one, let me know!
Hey Gothops, a good watch is a good watch whether it's COSC or not. None of FP Journe's are COSC, and they're pretty good. Take care, Bill
Thanks Bill; potent points about low frequency high-end products and about Daniels' take on the free-sprung balance.
Thank you John, it's really my pleasure since I enjoy watches so much. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Just purchased a Tissot Visdate with the Powermatic 80 mvmt. Really loving it! Beautiful watch.
Very nice, Mike! Take care, Bill
4:26 I know it’s not often talked about much, but I think when it comes to reliability, that the Soviet watch industry did stuff like this. Raketa has developed movements post-U.S.S.R. that maintain a lower frequency compared to others at its price level, but they keep it in the spirit of the Soviet reliability, which I quite like. I think Vostoks are also at a sort middle ground in this respect.
Btw, I’ve really been enjoying your channel. It’s made a lot of this watchmaking jargon that’s thrown around feel a little less daunting. I think it’s your delivery or something.
Also, i really hope that TSG will eventually come around to making a Powermatic 80-like movement (in spirit i mean) that is co-axial. It would be nice to see Omega not be the only one embracing the future and pushing the evolution of mechanical watches.
Hey Frisk, thanks for the tip about Raketa and the lower frequency watches and their reliability. Sort of the T-34 of watches. Take care, Bill
I have two Tissot watches. The gentleman with a silicon spring powermatic and Couturier without the Silicone. I have been extremely impressed with both watches. The fit and finish is excellent as well as the accuracy. I think Tissot and even Hamilton’s are some of the best values in watches. Ty for your video.
Happy with two Tissots both with Poewermatic 80s--nothing wrong with that! Take care, Bill
I own nearly a dozen of automatic watches, Seiko, Yema, Orient, Bulova, Hamilton, Victorinox… all great watches. But when it comes to accuracy , nothing beats the Tisso Powermatic 80
Rass, that doesn't surprise me. Great movement. Take care, Bill
Great info. Thank you 😊
Just got the prx 80 , love it ❤
Nice 👍
Very nice review/info - was looking to buy powermatic 80 and glad I found your video 😊
Glad it was helpful Joe! One thing to keep in mind with the Powermatic 80 is that there are different grades, and you should find out which one you want. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci thank you so much will do !!!
Great video Bill, never owned an automatic tissot just picked up a prx 18k rose gold in a trade and am so far really impressed with its accuracy.
That's great to hear David! Take care, Bill
Very good explanation. Enjoying as usual. Many thanks Bill !
Thanks Paul, I'm glad I could help. Take care, Bill
Hi, thanks for the interesting video. I’ve seen quite a few negative comments on different channels about this movement. I think the criticism really comes from Tissot’s use of polymer parts in some of the Powermatic movements and some see the lack of an adjustable escapement as a negative. I myself have a Hamilton which has another version of the Powermatic movement - Ref H-40. It has the same 21,600 bph, 80 hour power reserve, but no polymer parts. Same free sprung balance wheel and no escapement adjustment. It may not be COSC but the watch runs bang on with less than 1 second a day gained. I think it’s a highly underrated movement.
Hi Peakrider... I suppose that the silicon hairsprings used in some may be a problem and the 3Hz frequency is not everyone's choice (it is mine, and so is 2.5Hz). Yes, some of the polymer parts would be at odds with high quality in traditional watchmaking ... I am surprised about the adjustable escapement. What exactly is adjustable on escapements? It is interesting. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci ah sorry, might be me getting my terminology wrong. I’m talking about the adjustment used in the regulation of the movement. I think the small lever that has a + and - on it adjusts the hairspring, am I right?, not the escapement.
@@peakrider4886 That's the regulator for adjusting using curb regulators. You cannot regulate (adjust) a free-sprung balance nor balances using silicon hair springs without making weight adjustments. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci that’s what I understood about all the Swatch Powermatic movements in Tissots and Hamilton and Certinas, etc. They are regulated at the factory, but any additional adjustments that may be required in the future, if the watch runs fast or slow, is by an adjustment of the weights on the balance wheel. Sounds a very fiddly job, but for anyone who says those Powermatic movements can’t be regulated, that’s wrong. They can, it’s just more tricky. And probably best done by an experienced watch repairer.
Also found in the Hamilton Khaki line, called the H series.👍👍
Thank you David..I will check them out. I am a Hamilton Khaki fan! Cheers, Bill
I have a Hamilton Khaki Field Expedition 37mm & accuracy is within +/-1s, without a COSC...
this ballade model got even silicon balance spring ita great watch with chronometer grade made for whole life to last :)
Hey InsideFire! It's a watch with lots of great features....that's more affordable than more expensive watches with fewer features! Cheers, Bill
I picked up a Tissot Ballade powermatic 80 cosc rosegold two tone on bracelet for £626, it has a silicon hairspring,3hz frequency and 80 hour power reserve a great deal imho what do you guys think? Now onto HH, I feel people in the watch community don't appreciate this movement enough due to it being developed by the swatch group if we step back for a minute and see the movement in isolation its an ingenious bit of tech and would cost thousands in the equivalent micro brand eg Christopher Ward or even a Tag or an Oris . The buying power of the Swatch group has allowed them to create a chronometer certified movement in a sub $1000 watch this should be applauded as a feat in itself regardless if you think its HH or not. Finally if this movement was used exclusively in a brand positioned at a higher price point than Tissot would peoples opinion change? It seems many in our community see HH and unobtainable as inextricably linked concepts . Im glad The Swatch group are out too change this misconception rant over!
Hi Adam, I quite worrying about "HH" except insofar as collectors found some aspect that demonstrated high horology like the Powermatic80. Sounds like you found a good buy. Cheers, Bill
My Gent with the target 🎯 dial has a matching black background date wheel, Silicium PM80 and feels more luxurious than other brands
It's important that you get and wear what makes you happy with a watch, Spittin. Take care, Bill
Hi Bill, I'm checking on a watch I bought today. The Hamilton Khaki King 2 with the H40 movement. It seems like a good watch and I bought it from the renown engraver David Wade Harris in Texas. Not something I would do to a valuable watch but his work is beautiful and I don't own anything like it. Look him up, interesting. I remembered you like the low frequency slower beat watches.
Thanks Steve, I'll check it out. Take care, Bill
I tried Gentlemen and prx and didn’t like the design that much as opposed to the older design of PRC200. I think Tissot discontinued the Powermatic 80 for prc200, but some countries still sell them on the Tissot website. Ended up getting prc200 powermatic 80 for $240 on eBay. That’s a steal imo. After 14 days, the total result was 4 seconds ahead. Amazing.
Love this video!
Thanks Aaron! Take care, Bill
All I know is about the PRX with the powermatic 80 and it's been great so far. I bought more so the way it looks. Now having a base like ETA movement, to had to be okay. $675 retail is pretty nice😊
As the French say, Ehren-- 'pas mal...' Take care, Bill
Thank you. Well done.
As always NRS, the pleasure is mine! Cheers, Bill
Watches are a funny thing lol - I have a few older Citizen Eco Drive 2100’s, an Omega Seamaster and a Rolex GMT Master II - as I will be sending the Rolex in for service and refinishing I got the bug to buy a lower priced watch - so I grabbed a Seiko PADI (love it) and also a Steinhart Homage Ocean One (also love it) but the Tissot Seastar 1000 I am over the moon with - it gives me that pleasure and makes me happy like the Rolex does (instant connection) and I really love this movement! Edit: o don’t know the details of the differences of an officially certified movement like my GMT Master II vs this Swatch group modified ETA but I wouldn’t be very surprised if the quality differences were closer than the price differences lol!
Recently got a Mido with Caliber 80 (Mido's version of PM80). Accuracy is fantastic, averaging better (less) than +1spd. It astounds me that so many 'watch enthusiasts' hate this movement.
Great to hear Wu Chin! Takecare, Bill
Thanks! I just bought a ballade for 800usd.
The Tissot Ballade is a good buy, Jarno. Enjoy it. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
i have had two Powermatics for over a year: Seastar and Chemin (COSC cert) which i bought gray market. The principal complaint i have about them is that only Swatch can regulate them. I sent the Chemin to Swatch USA since it wasn't keeping COSC time (not far off though); i must say that they did the decent thing and, even though i told them i bought Gray Market, the regulated it for free including shipping. The Seastar, at 8-10 seconds slow a day, was bugging me so i paid $88 to Swatch to regulate it; OMG! it is within a sec/day now or less. Since i roll from dress watches to casual the 80 hr reserve helps dresser logistics. It is kind of a pain to remember to rotate the other watches on the winders; no need for these.
Anyway i think a great movement even if i don't know why i should care about free sprung balance wheels. George Daniels did i guess.
That's great to hear, Gary. Especially the reasonable service price. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Nice video Bill. I like the Tissot model Gentleman Powermatic 80 Silicium. This model actually features the Powermatic 80 with a silicon hairspring. Not COSC certified, but for $700 list price I’d say good value.
Thanks John, there seem to be several versions of the Powermatic 80, and depending on which one you get, the movement has different features. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci sir do you think it's a matter of time for the "gentleman" to be COSC or it's not meant to be certified chronometer even though it has the PM80? Thanks
@@mouhrissani8588 In my opinion, the extra costs of the COSC may not be warranted: the PM80 has no regulator that can be hand-adjusted, but is done by a Tissot computer, and so it's probably going to do well without the COSC testing. FP Journe, with some of the best watches made, has never deigned to have any of his certified by COSC. Take care, Bill
I saw a nice looking Certina with power 80 , nice information, thanks
Those Certinas are very cool Reza ... they're the COSC versions, no? Thanks, Bill
@@watchartsci I recently got the Certina Powermatic 80 Big date special edition (a mouthfull of a name). It's a beatiful watch with an understated design based on theyr watches from the 1960s. I love the watch and the movement! (It's not Chrono certified though. I don't know if they couldn't reach the certification or if they could but wanted to make the watch more affordable...)
Certina make good watches. I have two of their quartz offerings. Very robust, they can take a knock.
I have mine too the certina ds 38 but skeptic on the nylon or plastic movement tho
Interesting vid. I have a Mido with a movement that’s in the same family as the Powermatic 80. From a performence standpoint it’s the best movement I have. I can wear the watch for six months straight without having to set the time, some positions it gains a few seconds some pos it loses a few. Watch builds a power reserve fast lasts a true 80 hrs. Only concern is if any watchmaker can service movement since there are no regulating screws on balance ?
Robert, I didn't know there was a Powermatic 80 Mido ... I checked out the Mido Multifort, and for the price you get a great looking and running watch! Thanks for the tip! Bill
@@watchartsciyou didnt answer his question
@@relosapulso I had no answer... it may be one of those movements that require a replacement rather than a repair. Take care, Bill
@@relosapulso I recently bought a Mido Chronometer Jubilee with the Powermatic 80 movement. It’s the one with the silicon hairspring. It’s +9 seconds per month.
Btw, inquire with Swatch Group what the maintenance would be.
As always a great topic for us to think about. I think a lot of you tubers who recommend $500 watches from overnight companies with crappy movements should be looking at these watches and understanding why this movement is better than a cheapo STP or MIYOTA. youtube overlooks the great value in Tissot/Longines/etc
Completely agree Neo
Neo If watch collectors don’t learn about what they collect they couldn’t possibly have a good collection. Take care Bill 😉
Most of the powermatic have plastic escapement...
@@erik_4125 Plastic or silicon? Check it out, Bill 😉
Just bought the men's Ballade, silver dial with a brown faux gator leather band. Having a prior unpleasant experience withe another Swatch line "H". Most importantly this Tissot is just a tad fast at + 1.5 seconds a day. I bought this online, there were photos but seeing the dial in front of me was dazzling (the photos don't capture the silver inner ring on the dial. Bought this at retail, full 3 year Tissot warranty and the COSC papers. A few weeks ago. I was surprised that a place I used to work had this on sale and I have a lifetime discount there so it was too good a deal for a chronometer to pass up. Really nice detailing of the case too, there is beveling added to the side so it is very comfortable. A classic looking modern automatic. I found another bargain there, another Tissot with a Powermatic 80, a black dial, and a leather clasp band. No silicone balance spring but I'm hoping for the best.
Hi Timothy, it looks like your comment was cut at the end. A 'tad' fast at 1.5 seconds a day... I wish my watches would run with that accuracy! Take care, Bill
My cosc mode ran 0.0 per day until the balance staff fell out. Popped back of case off (case made in Hong Kong) and the staff was just floating around. I replaced it and it’s all whacked out of time, to fix? Full service $450. I paid $750 for it. Guess I’ll be trying my hand at regulating it
Whoaaa Christopher! Was that on a Powermatic 80? Take care, Bill
The Certina DS Big Date 60th Anniversary with a Nivachron balance spring developed between Swatch Group and AP... its the affordable Glashütte Original with a Panorama window
Indeed it is Jose, and they have one in green! Love green dials! Cheers, bill
Great video. Thanks.
Glad you liked it, Douglas. Kindest regards, Bill
Hi Bill. Great video. I have a Ballade with the COSC and a Seastar with the regular movement. Both are great watches but the Ballade is definitely more accurate. Luckily I was able to get the Ballade on special here in Sydney for $780AUD. I think that the COSC movement is one of the best on the market considering the technology and price. The only thing is I think that I will need to send it to Tissot for servicing rather than letting my local watchmaker work on it. Also I heard that when sent to Tissot they replace the movement with a refurbished movement rather than overhauling it. Not sure about this though.
Peter, you got a great price on the Ballade! Usually, if there's an ETA based in a watch, most local watchmakers can handle it...check before sending it to a Tissot service center unless they have one in Australia. Take care, Bill
I have one and my watchmaker is totally capable of servicing it and get original spare parts if needed. He is licenced and went trough intensive training at Tissot's facility in Switzerland.
It might be harder to find one there, across the ocean, but in general every watchmaker who can service an ETA can do a powermatic 80 with ease, its not rocket sience after all. The only issue is if the watchmaker is not licensed he/she wont be able to order original spare parts, so the only option then would be to get a chinese clone movement from aliexpress for about 100 usd and use it as a donor. Its not as bad as it sounds, since those chinese movements are quite amazing for what they actually are.
Also - dont believe what people say about powermatic 80 in the forums, lots of false information is floating around.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the ETA 7750.
I did buy a Powermatic 80 Couturier Day/Date in Silver with the newer 21,000 VPH 23 Jewel Version(I have already ordered a Silver Rotor Version from a friend in Germany to get this black one switched😜),…
But I yearn for the 7750 showing full Day/Date function. (I understand Tissot has modified the 7750- and it’s not “actually” a ETA 7750, but I want that movement like “some men want a Rolex”, because my Grandfather had one in a Longines with one, and Adored that Watch!!!
One day!!! It’s hard to collect Vintage German Cameras AND Swiss Watches, like riding two 🐴🐎 with one butt.
Hope your having a great new year all! (Pirating my wife’s UA-cam BTW).
Hi Michelle, I look at the 7750 like I look at the ETA-6497/98 ... a good solid movement. However, I'm the wrong person to ask since I do not care for chronographs ... except I wouldn't mind having a AgenGraphe-based movement in an HMC case. Take care, Bill
Thanks Sir, for your time and consideration to reply!
I respect your taste, and I too usually end up buying a clean face with a day or day/date function. I got caught up in the amazing amount of complications for the amazing price, but have never pulled the trigger- because of the “busy” look. I do listen to advice, and read forums/threads, and I think I am going to pass on the Valjoux 7750 for that very reason. A watch should be simple enough on the dial to look down, an immediately know the time, without deciphering out distractions.
I agree, and have paused looking at 7750 watches for the moment. I’m not a collector- I just wanted a good work watch(casual), and a “Date-Night” - more formal watch. Patience is a Virtue;)
Hope you’re having an EXCELLENT weekend!
Best Regard,
-Kyle (Michelle’s UA-cam Pirating Husband)
@@Audrey-fu7bi Hey Kyle, I like at-a-glance; don't-make-me-think; simplicity-is-beauty kind of watches too. Take care, Bill
I have a Tissot Powermatic 80 Chronometer. I got for $295. Arguably a steal of a deal IMO.
Excellent Mike!! You got a great deal! Congratulations! Cheers, Bill
Powermatic 80 silicium. I love it!
One of the best deals around, Greg. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Just got a Certina DS Action Diver Powermatic 80 at the start of the month.
A little over two weeks later, and it has lost just 15 seconds.
How is that for a non-COSC movement?😁
To say that I am happy is an understatement.
Hey Robert that's great to hear! The value of a watch is not how much you pay for it but how much you enjoy it. Sounds like you got a million dollar watch...Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Do u still wear it?
@@relosapulso yes.
I have since moved to CONUS and have found out that in cold temperatures it is fast by 20-30sec a month, so it evens out.
It is on a Marathon Italian rubber strap now.
Really happy with the performance.
@@robertm8401 wow even in cold still perfect accuracy been skeptic about the plastic or nylon movements tho is it really true? I know for sure that the spring in that piece is titanium for hot and cold temp
@@relosapulso they have a bit of plastic on the earlier ones like mine but I think the newer ones don't, but I'm not sure.
There seem to be no issues with the early ones, it seems.
The later ones have the Nivachron spring, those are antimagmetic.
Nice, you made the video!
Yes, I did. What do you think Timothy? Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci it's great. We need more people talking about movements and less people talking about resale prices and wait lists.
The deal breaker for me is the plastic escapment module (the escape wheel and the pallet) that makes this movement disposable .
Kabel, I believe they make different versions, some without the plastic. Take care, Bill
You’re turning me into a watch nerd Bill. 👍🏻. Thanks for the info. I have this Tissot and love it. Love to see your opinion on a popular watch at a similar price point :- Seiko SARX033. What are the Seiko movements like ?
Alexis, Seiko movements are well engineered and thoughtful. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Just got the Oceanstar GMT with Mido caliber 80 base ETA C07.661
How do you like it, O Bud? Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Hi Bill, I really like it. A lot! But it’s a big boy; 44mm, case height 13.28mm Perfect watch for the 🏖
I was looking to get a new Date just or OP and was getting the Rolex Run Around from the AD. Got fed up and stumbled across a two tone Ballade. I bought it on a whim for 500 and it's so good that I don't want a Rolex anymore.
No watch company should rest on its laurels nor allow its ADs to become overconfident ... lots of great watches out there Jeremy. Take care, Bill
Beware, plastic parts!
I wanted to buy a Tissot for the Powermatic 80 movement.
But the escapement is made of plastic!
So I decided to buy a Mido Caliber 80, with the same movement, but with steel escape wheel and anchor, and two rubies at the ends of anchor.
Just get a Tissot Heritage Petite Seconde - no plastic; no silicon; great price. Take care, Bill
Fantastic
Indeed Mango! Take care, and be safe, Bill😷
Great video how would you compare the Muhle Glashutte sw200 witj woodpecker regulation to the Powermatic 80 in terms of quality..? As I am looking at getting either yhe Hamilton Frogman 41mm or the Muhle Glashutte Panova... Thanks in advance thanks 🙏
I like both brands, but I'd probably go with the Frogman 41. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci thanks Bill!
I bought the $725 MSRP one for $270 on sale which I guess says something about how much it costs to make these.
Good buy Robert, and you're absolutely right! Take care, Bill
There's a Certina DS-1 Powermatic 80 chronometer. It seems like there is only one version in the whole DS-1 Powermatic 80 (automatic) range. It looks very attractive - I wish I could afford it. I forgot to add the model number, which is C029.408.11.081.00
Hi Ian, yes it looks like Tissot and Certina are the current Powermatic 80 watches now. Check this out: watchbase.com/search#q=Powermatic%2080 Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci That's some amount of work and research they've done at Watchbase. It looks like a great resource, thanks Bill. I wonder how easy it was to come by this sort of information before the Internet? I'm guessing it would have been speciality magazines/word of mouth.
What are your thoughts on the plastic components to the movement?
It depends on the watch and how it's used, Alex. Take care, Bill
All the top watchmakers use low frequency because they like to use less power. Less power means smaller barrel. They like to produce slim watches considering the complication their watches have. Great video as always.
@L'orologeria è finita No they do not use lower frequencies for smaller barrels. Where did you get that idea from? It sounds like a guess. Here's is a video you need to see where they were actually asked why the lower Hertz fequency: ua-cam.com/video/NX9vQRC_hh4/v-deo.html Now what did they say? I would like to see a reference to your claim since it doesn't sound like anything a top tier watchmaker would say. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Hi Bill, the reference of my claim is your video it self. Almost all of them have said the reason of the lower frequency is to improve the power reserve. What I'm saying is to avoid to increase the barrel. Those two elements are part of the same equation.
@@lorologeriaefinita8295 Yes, they did mention a longer charge, and some, a bigger balance (Kari Voutilainen); so now I understand your comment, though I do not recall any of them saying a goal was smaller barrels, though certainly an added advantage. (I think any reduction in barrel size is epiphenomenal, but it could be one taken into consideration for the other features of the movement.) One of the reasons I found most interesting was that "you could see the movement better with a slower frequency"- pride in craftsmanship. Kindest regards, Bill
Bill,
If you get a chance, look up the Tissot Le Locle Chronometre. A very interesting watch!
That's a real beauty Redskins! What's the street price today?...when introduced in 2013, they were about $1,200 MSRP. Thanks, Bill
I have this powermatic 80 silicium; I regularly get +/- 2 sec. every day. usually just a 1 sec. difference. Incredible accurate watch. not COSC.
Yes Milstb, watches with the Powermatic 80 loaded with silicon are fabulously accurate without the extra cost of a COSC test. Take care, Bill
Hey Bill, what are your thoughts on the potential longevity of the Powermatic 80? Do you think Swatch also developed the movement to be used for longer serving intervals than the standard 2428? And how would you conpare the Powermatic 80 to Seiko's 3hz 6R and 4R movements thanks!
Hey Chi-Town, I don't know that much about either the 6R or the 4R; but the movement in my Christiaan van der Klaauw is based on a Seiko 4L but runs at 4Hz (rats!). So, I need to learn more about the 6R and 4R. Cheers, Bill
It has certainly thrown up a challenge to the cheaper Japanese offerings.
I never discount the quality and creativity of Seiko movements, OT, but I do like the Powermatic 80. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci True Bill. No one should discount Seiko altogether. I purchased a pre- Powermatic Tissot PRS 516. The watch is fine, but alas, rather large and heavy for my flimsy wrist. All the best.
The rectangular ones i really like. But is a slightly lower frequency and a freesprung balance the entry point for High Horology? My gut feelig says HH should at least try to modify something old in a new way or invent something, well come up with a new idea. Sometimes it is just overall perfection on the handcrafting level. This alone seems a bit meh.
(Just got my Reverso. I am in love now...)
AsIsaid IhaveNoIdea I think we need to look at the mechanical aspects and creativity... as can be found in Reversos.😉
Hi bil is this movement can be regulated ?
Hi Sina, the Powermatic 80 does not have an ETAChron regulator like most ETA movements. They are laser-regulated at the factory, but you can regulate them by turning the screws on the balance spoke (arm). Unless your Powermatic 80 is way off, I wouldn't mess with it, but if you do need to adjust it, do so without moving the balance and use a minimal pressure on the screws...turning them ever so slightly. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I think what it is they are doin this to get more of a selection of ppl into collecting on the affordable scale sort of speak because they know everybody can’t afford the higher end of watches like Rolex patek Philippe and some of the others.. I could be wrong but that’s just my thought on it good video I always love watching your videos they are very informative for sure..
Hi Kenneth, I probably rely too much on the lower frequencies to indicate better movements, and since the Powermatic 80 lowered the frequency to increase the charge to 80 hours, it got my attention. You might be exactly right about getting more affordable watches for collectors and at the same time providing better movement. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I have a question Tissot watches Any good and why don’t they get the recognition they deserve in the market of watches
Hi Mario. I'm a big fan of the Tissot Heritage Petite Seconde-with a nice big Unitas/ETA 6498 movement-one of the best buys around. They're very reasonably priced, and I think they're fine. Here's a great deal on one: www.ashford.com/tissot-t1194051603701.html?source=370000001&CAWELAID=120016340000055508&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-K2MBhC-ARIsAMtLKRv_EBAKHOhflFxXd9cMYX95DCi4qulwkCxYo-cEUPgdE5EM43rWv9AaAn0fEALw_wcB Brand new and with an additional 11% off. What's not to like? Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thanks I just looked at the website
just ordered a Certina Action Diver with the Powermatic...very reasonable price
They have some incredible deals David. A very cool movement in an affordable watch-looks like your figured out how to beat the system and get a great watch! What color did you get? Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci The turquoise one, sea turtle special edition. Thanks for all the knowledge you share!
David Has Too Many Interests Great choice! A real beauty!
Interesting point on expensive brands using 3Hz... I really wonder why though!
Check out this video Alpejon where I interviewed some top watchmakers whose watches are under 3Hz: ua-cam.com/video/NX9vQRC_hh4/v-deo.html Take care, Bill😷
@@watchartsci Awesome, thank you!
Curious to hear where you think the sweet spot is from a price perspective in automatic watches. Where do prices get inflated? Is it based on in-house movements? Is it the overpricing of watches with a ETA 2824/ Sellita SW-200 movement inside? How do you identify price points for different movements (Miyota 9000 series, NH-35, 2824/ SW-200/ Valjoux 7750, etc)?
Egg, it depends of what resources are put into the movement compared to the price. The Powermatic 80 was developed between Swatch & Tissot, bringing the frequency down to 3Hz and extending the charge to 80 hours; so, not off-the-shelf exactly. For some, they pay a good deal for the marketing and very little for the product. Take care, Bill
WatchArtSci except that they are now using that movement across the Swatch group. That movement has become an off the shelf movement as it is now available in Tissot, Certina, Hamilton, and Rado watches. It may be an innovation, but it’s certainly not a unique item anymore...
Bill I'm so happy to hear you feel that way so now you can trade me for your H. Moser for my Tissot COSC certified one at that .😂😂😂😂 Just kidding Bill I don't own a Tissot. 😉
Rats! Mark...I was getting excited about having a Tissot! Cheers, Bill
Does Tissot design some fashionable cases then stick modified ETA 2824’s in them. Or do they design a case to fit perfectly and complement the movement, like Moser do?.....
John, Tissot was involved with Swatch and ETA in the modification and development of the Powermatic 80. There is a general size for most movements so that if someone develops a movement, it will fit in a certain size case. Take care, Bill
Hey Bill. I hear some of these movements have plastic parts? Escapement or rotor?
Hi Pavlos, it might be some escapement parts to more fully reduce magnetization, but I doubt it would be the rotor. Take care, Bill
I am thinking of getting a tissot le locle. I find it to be a beautiful watch. It has a powermatic 80 without cosc or the silicon. What are your thoughts on that watch?
Hi Neehal, I like that combination. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Thank you!
I have read that powermatic 80 is not serviceable by an independent watchmaker and you have to send it to tissot factory...is it true?
Hi Babylon, the Swatch Systems 51 cannot be serviced, but the Powermatic 80 can. Here's one of several videos showing how: ua-cam.com/video/0IfezaKoHds/v-deo.html Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Hello, any certified ETA watchmaker can easily service a Powermatic 80 movement. It doesn’t have a regulator screw but there are other ways to regulate the watch when serviced. My Tissot with a PM80 was serviced and regulated by Shami Fine watchmaking in Fairfield NJ they are true watchmakers not just jewelers and my watch no runs consistently +2.
@@michaelriera6277 Thanks for that info! I always prefer to have service done locally: it's cheaper and quicker. Good to hear that about the Powermatic 80. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I undersood that C07.111 has 23 jewles and some plastic parts and isn’t fully servicable by indys, while C07.611 is 25 jewels and all metal parts. Can someone tell is it C07.111 fully servicable? Thank you.
P.S bought Le Locle with 23 jewels, beauty 😊
How would you compare the C07.111 with the C07.611?
Here you go Jedi:
C07.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement.
C07.6XX; these have a regular escapement.
C07.8XX; these have a silicon hair spring.
Take care, Bill
Hello, allow me one question.
How to regulate the Powermatic 80 as the have removed the regulation screw ?
Watz, you use the balance wheel weight screws-two on the balance wheel. To adjust the beat rate, you can adjust it with slight adjustments on the little arm on the balance shaft. (Video uses a screwdriver for both, but I'd use a peg wood stick or toothpick for the beat rate adjustment.) Here's a video that shows how to make adjustments on the Powermatic 80. ua-cam.com/video/oPf042EIyF0/v-deo.html Take care, Bill
Hey, I’m a uni graduate looking to buy my first “luxury watch on a student budget”. I’m confused between the tissot tradition powermatic 80 open heart, tissot visodate powermatic 80, and the tissot Carson premium powermatic 80. Any suggestions why one is better than the other? I quite like the looks of the tissot tradition open heart one most, what do you make of that seen as you’re far more knowledgeable in the watch world than myself?
Nikhil, check out the Tissot Chronometer Powermatic 80 COSC. ( www.tissotwatches.com/en-us/t1084081605700.html ) That will give you a double horological premium in a 3Hz watch with a COSC chronometer rating. Take care and be safe, Bill😷 (You should be able to find a better deal for the same watch on the secondary market.)
Habring is an interesting example too. Price: Not HH. Movement, well one could argue they only buy the gear train, everything else is handmade - so in between. Finishing very good but not Lange level. Well the rest of patriotism that exists in me and my meeting with them says: High Horology.
Hi Reverso-Man! I'll take a hand made, highly accurate watch by Richard Habring any day over most any watch! Not too concerned with Manufacturer's Definition of HH ... we can have a Collector's Definition! Cheers, Bill
Street price = Bill selling these watches in a back alley.Bill will do anything to get his next piece.Cheers
Decon, you may not want to visit the back alleys I've been to. Stick with your AD in a brightly lit showroom ... and love the full price. Cheers, Bill
Having handled and worn the Seastar, I think it's a bit overpriced. It's not an ugly watch, but it doesn't really know what it wants to be with all the polished surfaces on, basically, a diver. Plus the clasp on the metal bracelet is a disgrace at this price-point. The rubber-strap option looks the nicest, but even that one is a bit ... unbalanced I guess? For example: The indices seem a bit too small and/or placed too close to the outer rim of the dial.
Re the movement .... I really couldn't care less if it had 40 or 80 hours of reserve ... once you let it get down to 40, it will probably run much worse anyway so you'll need to keep it wound and/or on the winder if you don't wear it daily. Just like you would have to do if it only had 40 hours on tap. What I would care about is the difference in second-hand movement ... I'd much rather have the 4Hz sweep than 80 hours of power reserve at a jerkier 3 Hz. Especially in a watch that's costing $500 - $700.
Hi 1SaG ... you mention a "jerkier 3Hz" ... Isn't it interesting that all the top watchmakers use 3Hz or less frequencies. I guess they need to talk to you. In the meantime, I suggest you get your 4Hz mechanical watch ... they're the most common and mass produced. If you're at all interested in what top tier watchmakers use, check this out. : ua-cam.com/video/NX9vQRC_hh4/v-deo.html Take care, Bill
what do you think about Certina DS PH200M and Certina DS-1 Big Date Powermatic 80???
The Certina DS-1 Big Date Powermatic 80 looks like an engineer's office watch...eye-catching features are the lugs-beautiful the way they gently but solidly curve around the wrist. The Certina DS PH200M is a surprise! It's a sports watch/diver that doesn't look a thing like the Submariner. I like the symmetry of the watch. Cheers, Bill
For me I would consider them approaching high horology just not there yet. Similar to a lab grown vs. Mined diamond
Dominick, it's time we re-think our own values in horology ... in part its the craftsmanship, but I don't think the finishing is the most important, and to a large extent that's what has happened. Cheers, Bill
Hi Bill!
They have models with a silicon balance spring as well... are those completely amagnetic like the omegas?
Moreshwar, I'm no fan of silicon in a mechanical watch even though it is a fully amagnetic element. Otherwise, silicon has been used in a number of HH watches and only a few bat an eye. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Tissot argues that the silicon balance spring makes the watch more accurate because it does not react to magnetism and also requires less maintenance/need for lubrication. What do you think about this? Why aren't you a fan of silicon in a mechanical watch?
@@georgechau6800 If we need accuracy, we've got quartz and smart watches, and while a non-magnetic hairspring is a good thing for accuracy ... it's a step toward a more plasticized mechanical watch. Niobium/titanium hairsprings are non-magnetic as well and keep accurate . However, the Powermatic 80 is an innovative movement and would be an ideal office watch. Take care, Bill
@Chris No it's not a misunderstanding ... it's a choice I've made. Silicon is a metalloid; not a transition metal. I prefer the latter-from Titanium to Gold. Silicon springs cannot be adjusted by a watchmaker but only replaced, often at the factory. I know all of the non-magnetic and heat/cold advantages of silicon and the fact that Patek Philippe has silicon in its watches. I have nothing against them; they're just not a choice I'd take in traditional watchmaking. So enjoy your silicon balances and springs ... I'm sure they're more accurate than my traditional movements. Understand that I have nothing against silicon in watches, like the Powermatic 80 or even the Patek Philippe. Just not my cup of tea. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I think if we are going to use the term high horology we should use it in the context it was intended as equivalent to haute couture, haute cuisine and high jewellery -- that is, creativity, luxury "ingredients" and obvious manual craftsmanship to an obvious even excessive degree. However, we need other better terms to define those watches that are innovative, interesting, collectable and offering enhanced performance. Let's not try to shoehorn those qualities into the term high horology where they don't belong. Think about this... there are many SUVs faster in a straight line and around a track than a Mazda Miata (MX-5) but one is a sports car and the other isn't. It's just apples and oranges, non-overlapping magisteria.
Jeremy, all of the "haute" adjective items were not any less generated for marketing purposes than "Haute Horlogerie." To revive the meaning of Haute Horlogerie is to move the substance to the most substantive aspects of a watch-its movement. I've considered Horlogerie intéressante (interesting horology), but that may be an even more elusive term than HH. As for analogies ... let's drop the car analogies, and consider setting your own course. When you were young, your mother dressed you, but at some point you decided you wanted your own style. This is what I am proposing-quit letting Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie tell us what we should want and decide for ourselves. Further, I think we should be more inclusive, and something like the Powermatic 80 may help us do that. Take care, Bill
I do have a question, does Roger Dubois easy diver Chrono with lamina movement has the same quality as VC Chrono and Patek Phillipe because they had Hallmark of Geneve?
Hi Mohamed, I don't know why not. The Lemania movements are excellent; so I wouldn't worry, but collectors will pay more for watches with the Geneva Seal. Take care, Bill
Plastic parts?
Manuvns, a plastic bridge or plate? The Powermatic 80 comes in different configurations. Take care, Bill
I don't think this watch challenges the definition of High Horology in the sense that it should be considered High Horology. It challenges the definition of High Horology in that it packs a lot of features, improvements, and in some cases a COSC rating. Too many high horology watches are highly modified standard movements with machine finishing and questionable dial/hands/case/band/bracelet quality. In the same way, how many High Horology watches have great cases, hands, dials, and movement finishing, but all applied to a Valjoux movement that has not seen an any significant innovation in the last 50 years? And how many of those have seen an actual decline in actual overall finishing?
I would agree high horology doesn't only mean great movements.
Hi NSsomething ... I guess the point is to challenge the definition of HH. We need to do that. Early live stream on Saturday! Cheers, Bill
The frequency is not the issue for me. The fact that the powermatic 80 has plastic components that make it less servicable and less durable makes me cynical about the movement.
Hi Dove, I have no idea why they put plastic components in the movement-any monetary savings wouldn't be worth minuscule I'd think. Take care, Bill
Is the powermatic 80 regulatable by, say, me?
Hi Blogo, good question. The regulation on on a Powermatic 80.111 (and other C07-based movements) is not in the tension of the hairspring but in two weights on the balance wheel. The free sprung balance wheels cannot be regulated without some knowledge of how the balance weights are adjusted. Those on the Powermatic 80 are adjusted at the factory with a computer getting the balance just right. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci But I could not adjust those weights at all? Thank you for your response! It would be frustrating for me to learn that this is not adjustable by me. I would think of it as a kind of mechanical version of a quartz watch - highly accurate, but for me, untouchable (if that makes sense)
@@BlogofTheW3st with a screwdriver you could physically adjust the weights ... but you'd need the knowledge and skills to get it right. If you want a great watch that is very affordable that you can adjust; check out the Tissot Heritage Petite Seconds ( www.ashford.com/tissot-t1194051603700.html?source=370000001&CAWELAID=120016340000055508&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkqSlBhDaARIsAFJANkic-cVXL2CkdYEPHhUAMGLVTTnnVBc0f_Fn6APLljPRYv-thl9IEGMaAoerEALw_wcB ) It has an ETA 6498-1 that runs at 18,000 so/hr. With the slower frequency not only can you see the movement elements in motion, your service visits will be less. Take care, Bill
I struggle to buy higher end Tissot mainly due to them selling cheap (under $100) watches under their brand name.....call me weird
Hey Jim, the Tissot story is an interesting one. At one time Tissot and Omega were under the same "roof...so to speak." They decided that Tissot would be the "affordable" watch and Omega would be the "quality" watch. Along the way, a lot happened. Omega got the co-axial (George Daniels) escapement, and Omega landed on the moon. So this gave Tissot a little more room to up its game, and I think they have. Keep in mind that both Tissot and Omega are under the Swatch umbrella, and ultimately, Swatch calls the shots. When they first came up with the Powermatic 80 idea, the Swatch people and Tissot people worked together to develop a Tissot for the watch-not just dropping the movement in a Tissot case. One of my favorite watches is my Harry Winston Premier Bi-retrograde... also owned by Swatch. A lot of collectors won't touch a Harry Winston with a ten-foot pole thinking it a "jewelry watch" and not a real watch. To a great extent that's exactly true because HW has no HW-manufactured caliber. In my watch is a Girard-Perregaux movement with a retrograde device made by Agenhor. So, I really have a watch with a HW-case and a GP movement with a retrograde module by Jean-Marc Wiederrecht. That would be the same way I'd look at the Tissot with the Powermatic 80. No one (except jewelry nuts) will get excited about a Harry Winston watch; but a module by Agenhor... that's an altogether different story! Cheers, Bill
Are there any issues with hand winding this movement like there are with the 2824?
Not that I know of Slanovich. Take care, Bill
The Mido Commander Chronometer uses the same movement.
I knew other watches used the Powermatic 80 but I didn’t realize Mido did. Thanks 😊 Bill
I'm wearing Certina DS Action diver Powermatic 80, C07.111, and I'm wondering does this have plastic escapement and pallet fork or silicon one. Certina just said it's synthetic. I've been searching all over the internet and I couldn't find a single photo of these parts, only plastic Sistem51 ones. Btw I's not COSC certified watch, but it's pretty damn accurate, around +1,2 secs fast a day.
Jazz1ba, there's a lot of carbon fiber/ceraics. Used for their non-magnetic properties.. Maybe that's what it is? Take care, and don't worry about COSC...F.P. Journe never deigned to let them test his watches. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci I'm not worried about COSC, plastic is what worries me. :) Cheers from Bosnia.
@@jazz1basame here worried of the plastic parts as well
High horology has to have more than this. I liken it to the automotive indstry where innovation always starts in the higher end market and then drops down to all other cars - like anti-lock braking.
Richard, I think we need to stop letting the (Richemont-sponsored) Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie tell us what we should want. Not a car analogy. It's like when you stop letting your mother dress you and develop your own style. We need our own style. Cheers, Bill
Meh... I purchased a steinhart which housed an eta 2893-2 élaboré regulated to 5 positions straight out the new box or was +12 seconds a day, 3 months later still running that fast, so it's now for sale. I then purchased a bulova high frequency quartz which runs at +/- 10 seconds a year. I do like an automatic but hate inaccuracy.
Hey Fractal, mechanical watches are not for those with OCD. Get a smart watch wired into an atomic clock. However, I do like Steinhart because, they tell you what you're buying, and an ETA 2893-2 (3Hz, no?) élaboré probably is as good as you'd want for a mechanical. Take care, Bill
Is the tissot powermatic 80 are the same movement on mido calibre 80?
Yes, Aries. The Mido calibre 80 is based on the ETA C07.821, which is the designation of the Powermatic 80. The Caliber 80 Si is so named because the 'Si' indicates 'silicon' ... which is why the Powermatic 80 is so accurate at 3Hz. Take care, Bill
My last name is Moser I would love one day to have a Moser watch but for now I settle for a Certina !
Well Mr. Moser, start saving and you should be able to get one around 10k or so. Good hunting! Bill
hello, thank you. ı wonder if C07.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement and C07.8XX; these have a silicon hair spring are different or similiar as long as it is powermatic80 ? ı mean ı will buy one
By "synthetic escapemen", do you mean 'silicon escapements, Engin? Let me know. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci on watchbase we site you advised says movement code which has "C07.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement and C07.8XX; these have a silicon hair spring" for example T086.407.16.051.00 and T108.408.16.037.00 is quality same because same? movement only difference the part synthetic and escapement.
@@watchartsci ı mean as long as powermatic 80 is all models high horology ? or which is better ? because watch base says:
C07.811 description
'Powermatic 80' movement with silicon balance spring.
Within the Powermatic family of movement's there are -thus far- three different levels;
C07.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement.
C07.6XX; these have a regular escapement.
C07.8XX; these have a silicon balance spring.
Thank you for the video. Could you please tell je, why in ETA C07.111 are only 23 jeweils and plastic parts and in ETA C07.601 25 jeweils , and No plastic parts? Pallet fork is of metal with two additional jeweils. Does it mean the ETA C07.111 is cheaper and worse movement?
Kamil, the number of jewels reflects the number moving shafts. Jewels are used because of their hardness; so more jewels doesn't mean better-just more friction points. The rubies used are all man-made and aren't worth that much anyway-they're not precious stones. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci Thank you Bill
Hamilton did the sane thing. I told this to you several times.
They simply don't use the plastic escapement and not COSC on most of them.
My question is, should they truly objectively considered as high horology though? Or should they be considered as Mid-horology?(I find mid level horology more fitting for low end Swatch group watches.) I own a Hamilton 7753 modified movement I am pretty satisfied with the time, it is only running a little less COSC standards inaccurate without being COSC standard.
Well I am going to say my definition of high horology again. It should have a high technicality(an absolute criteria) and certain level of finishing(there are exceptions) in a watch.
Tippy, by the current definition of HH; no. That's why we need to re-think HH. Take care, bill
High horology should take in context mechanical chronograph and their complications. The 7753 is an offspring of the 7750, these movement are very robust and reliable , is high horology defined by the case the watch is built in? If it’s made out of gold or silver? Food for thought!
Is the certina ds 38 released in 2021 has nylon or plastic movements?
John, please research this question and let us know! Take care, Bill
Are the Hamilton H movements basically a Powermatic 80s?
Hi Chi, I honestly do not know, but you can be the researcher to help us all find out! Kindest regards, Bill
Chi Auyeung yes they are the powermatic 80 movement.
I think they are, I had a Hamilton but I sold it because I like to watch a smoother second hand. It’s a great watch but it’s not smooth like I like it , reminds me of the seiko movements.