Fr, that's all Because of the: Goku absorbed god ki in his base, but it's a transformation actually with a name: ssj beyond god that is the base form with god ki. So base Goku isn't the level of his battle with beerus
@@pedroluisdesouzaresende777 he is 😭. It’s stated he absorbed the power, not the god ki itself. It’s added to his base power and not another technique or form. Nice try tho. GT gets curb stomped. Hell, I’ll prove to you why despite what this video says, base cabba still curbstomps gogeta.
@Lineproof i hate those power scalers i'm telling you it's a form It literally has a name, so Basically you proposing that universe 6 sayajins can just give a good fight to beerus IN BASE like Goku did in battle of gods? That's the stupidest shi ever cause then his ssj form would be equivalent to ssj blue on resurection f (ssj god multiplier). And If you say: oh but Goku and vegeta got stronger in base then that means Gohan and 17 who fought against Goku are beyond ssj god (battle of gods) level since he transformed in BLUE too?
@@Lineproof Your whole reasoning is disproved by the fact that both Vegeta and Goku power up to SSG and become immensely stronger. "Death of the author" ahh comment
Everything DragonBall related after 2005 has bothered my spirit greatly. I just try to not take it too serious and enjoy the specific aspects that originally made me fond of the franchise.
its because dragon ball scaling has been a joke since dbz. I'ts mind boggling people still take it seriously lmao. You can literally have scenes where character A says "lol Im x8888 times stronger than you" and 3 panels later Character B slaps character A.
Regardless of how much evidence there is in favor of Cabba, the simple truth is that we will never see him beating SSJ4 Gogeta in any anime, game, or manga unless they play it as a joke. Dragon Ball doesn’t care about power scaling nearly as much as the community would like it to. If this fight ever happens, they are going to give the win to SSJ4 Gogeta.
@@M.E.D.I.C.I.N.E just because narratively ssj4 gogeta is likely going to win, this clearly states it’s about power scaling, which is where cabba stomps
@@thetf8142 I know, but this whole discussion will never go anywhere. So far I do believe cabba wins based just on power scaling, but power scaling is not an exact science, the writers might even do an ass pull and say gogeta does have god ki and that's why his hair is red. I think there are better things to focus on about dragon ball.
@@M.E.D.I.C.I.N.E well I mean yea, power scaling is wonky (master roshi keeping up with Jiren for example) but that’s just what it is, that’s why people like it. It’s a way to discuss different media that people enjoy.
@@thefitnessgrampacertestisa8483 I did. I know he said gogeta wins, but in terms of power scaling I'm still willing to say cabba wins because power scaling is stupid in dragon ball. Android 16, a robot, being stronger than frieza, n 17 being as strong as goku on the top because he trained. My point is that we can throw all of that out of the window because there is no way they are going to treat ssj4 gogeta like they treated frieza. Gogeta wins because he is more popular and can sell more toys, that's it
@@AhmedHussain-ju6xd SSJ4 Gogeta was the combination of a Saiyan who got his power via a literal asspull and one who required a Blutz Wave Viagra machine to even transform Cabba only compared the feeling of Super Saiyan, he never gained the form via that method, if anything his awakenings of SSJ and SSJ2 (in the anime at least) were some of the best in the entire series Don’t fuck with Dragon Ball fans we haven’t even watched the show
@@FireofthetigerYT fam to say ssj4 was an ass pull is like saying the og ssj was an ass pull not to mention the blutz wave thing was the only way to make gogeta a thing in the show cuz vegeta didnt have his tail thats why i hate they did it that way cuz someone always saying something about it the thing is tho all it did was hit him with blutz waves basiclly making it like he stared at the moon it gave him no power boost all it did was trigger his great ape transformation then vegeta still had to then turn into ssj4 on his own ssj4 is a result of vegetas hard work over the years all he need was a tail
@@FireofthetigerYTThe last sentence is a good introduction for urself for calling one of the most earned forms an asspull lmao . Although u're right Cabba's forms might just be one of most earned in dbs .
@@Jsipki265 you do realize goku meeting arale was a filler episode right? Not to mention even then gt has scaling to the movies of z which scale above super like the jenamba feat.
Base GT Goku destroyed sugoroku space which is established an infinite between space and time as well as life and death , a feat yet to be matched by dbs . Don't really see how moro arc is supposed to make him stronger by scaling above weaker characters .
@@humanman9920 BoG Goku was about to break the universe just from getting hit and hitting back. That same feat was what made OMEGA SHENRON a big deal in GT. Goku was doing it in the beginning of Super just by tanking hits and throwing them back out.
@@humanman9920The Suguroku Space and the realm that holds it are specifically stated to transcend the platonic concepts of space and time so even at a lowball the realm should be outerversal. The problem is GT Goku never actually scales to the dimension itself. It was already collapsing prior to him supposedly "destroying" it and even that isn't concrete since it was never actually shown that Goku destroyed the Suguroku Space, only that he was able to escape from it.
It was clearly retconned in the anime. That's why goku uses the SS god form in the tournament. Goku and vegeta both use the god form in the Broly movie. They aren't stacking god form on god form.
@@laniswaray2220 common sense, forms don't stack, the fact vegeta didn't go through the god ritual(so he wouldn't have absorbed it into base), saiyan beyond god only being present in 1 movie, the obvious broken power scaling that makes much more sense if SS god being absorbed was retconned, the fact that it didnt happen in the manga, and the lack of any GOOD evidence to support otherwise.
I honestly don't argue about power levels since the anime's scaling is hyper inconsistent across super and gt and you could make arguments either way outside the top tiers of super aka Toppo, kefla, and everything above them. This stands in the manga as well for it being less erratic and consistent.
All that to say if going by anime canon ssj4 is highly comparable to ssg with ssj4 gogeta being a weaker alternative to ssj blue vegito. Ssj4 goku or vegeta wipe any of the Universe 6 characters sub Kale, Hit, and Kefla without fusing.
Yeah, I'm a fan of both GT and Super. I really like Cabba, but I'm completely fine with SS4 Gogeta beating Cabba after a half decent fight. Even if SS2 Cabba was stronger by pure power levels, it wouldn't be by that much and Gogeta would have had a lot more battle experience than Cabba, by the sheer fact that there's two battle hardened Saiyans in one body. I'll stick with the memes though. They're hilarious.
If Saiyan names are based on vegetables and literally vegetable then the fusions should have been names for popular salad names that include the two vegetables fused together. As much as Vegito and Gogeta are iconic, i would have wanted this to be real.
A common mistake with using the Z anime filler for scaling when it comes to Pikkon comparing to Goku is that people make the mistake of trying to use that filler to say Base Buu Saga Goku > Cell. The problem with this is that the Z anime also confirms that Adolescent Gohan is weaker than he was against cell during the start of the Buu Saga. This would imply that base Goku > Adolescent SSJ2 Gohan and of course Teen SSJ2 Gohan. This is easily debunked by the Z anime itself when Goku enters SSJ2 against Majin vegeta who praises him for becoming stronger than Gohan was against Cell. This means that Buu Saga Goku in the anime canon must enter SSJ2 to surpass SSJ2 Teen Gohan and Perfect Cell. Also, the movies can't be lumped in with the anime canon. The movies are even in their own seperate universe from the base Z anime. As far as continuities are concerned there is DBZ Anime, DBZ Kai (closer to manga), and DBZ movies which may or may not be tied directly to GT. While Cooler does show in GT, that doesn't necessarily confirm that GT is in the same canon as all of the movies, but rather that in GT's continuity, there was also a Cooler. There is no official confirmation that GT is a continuation of the DBZ Movie-verse continuity, only that it is a continuation of the original DBZ anime. For anyone who read this, thank you for your time.
For anyone that read that, please disregard it, it’s just more misinformation from a person that doesn’t actually understand how the creators think when making the series. Truth is that while the statement about Goku, SSJ2 Youth Gohan, Cell etc. may make sense, the creators do NOT care about all of that, and ARE NOT that consistent when explaining all of this. If you watched Salad’s video he mentions how Toei added in a lot of ORIGINAL content that didn’t appear in the manga, meaning the filler is only in the anime and because it’s the anime, can still be used as it neither goes past or beyond manga adapted content into the anime, it’s in the middle, like most filler. Whole time for the anime, since it’s actually original content specifically made for the anime, it can’t even be considered filler. So while it may not make sense, this is just what the creators made apart of an already great story TO ADD MORE DEPTH TO THE SERIES. Fortunately you are allowed to take Dragonball however you’d like, but just remember the creators have the final say on what happened and happens, not you. Another thing, the movies ARE apart of the DBZ Anime, and yes, because of this, they are apart of the DBGT Storyline. They are NOT apart of an alternate universe, the creator Akira Toriyama specifically said that he TAKES the movies as an alternative universe, and is purely an AUDIENCE MEMBER for them. He has no say for the movies, if you want to know who does? Look no further than Takao Koyama, the Screenwriter and Producer for the DBZ anime (+ the movies) and DBGT, and he said on twitter, that “the movies follow the Tv anime”, this literally confirms that the DBZ anime and its movies, lead into what would be known as DBGT, that is literally DIRECT CONFIRMATION THAT THE MOVIES APART OF THAT SAME STORY DUE TO THE DBGT ANIME BEING A DIRECT CONTINUATION FROM THE DBZ ANIME. So yes, COOLER DOES APPEAR IN GT BECAUSE HE WAS IN THE DBZ ANIME, ITS LITERALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT. HE IS NOT A DIFFERENT COOLER, HE IS THE SAME COOLER FROM COOLER’S REVENGE AND THE RETURN OF COOLER. Nothing has changed. One more thing, Just enjoy the series, and don’t over complicate it when it’s not necessary, power scaling for DB is NOT real, these characters get stronger over time because it’s a JOURNEY, especially shown with Goku and Vegeta. You cannot Power scale when these characters get stronger over time, only time you’d even be able to do that is if you know a character has gotten weaker, and another character has possibly gotten stronger, then which it’d just be Weaker Vs. Stronger, and not Universal Vs. Boundless. DRAGONBALL IS VERY INCONSISTENT, Not completely though, but still VERY INCONSISTENT. If you read all of this, hopefully it’ll start to finally sit, and thank you for taking the time, it’s time we stop spreading misinformation about one of the greatest anime’s of all time. R.I.P to Akira Toriyama, and thank you to Sensei Takao Koyama.
@@3gxerF-ty78Gubs-46gya The problem with everything you said is that you also aren't able to read the minds of the creators. The crux of my argument begins with base Goku vs Cell. Might I remind you that Pikkon is the one that defeated cell, not base Goku, and that the animators that made the filler also made Goku vs Pikkon, where Goku needed to use Kaioken SSJ to beat Pikkon. Based on the guides, Kaioken ×2 SSJ Goku would be equivalent to SSJ2 Goku because it doubles the SSJ multiplier. This means it's consistent for Pikkon to scale above perfect Cell and that he's relative to SSJ2 Buu Saga Goku, not base Goku.
People use that one vague unrelated magazine statement to downplay the shit out of GT and run with it. Any amount of actual thought put into it would make it obvious GT scales a lot higher than buu saga vegito lol
It canon but people are misinformed on what it means. It simply means ssj vegito multiplier is better than ssj4 multiplier. No where on the guild said anything about goku
The way GT is downplayed is atrocious, coming from someone who prefers DBS. Base kid Goku was going to blow up hell by powering up, quite literally toyed with Frieza and Cell, was stated to have enough power to light up a galaxy, was going up against people comparable to Buu, and broke through a dimension with a measly Kamehameha. Again, all of this is in BASE Baby Vegeta was already stronger than that Goku as a SS3. Super Baby Vegeta was already implied to be stronger than SSJ Vegito from the Buu saga, as Goku himself said it was the greatest power he had ever felt. Then he got another transformation, he got Golden Oozaru, and ONLY THEN was he able to match SSJ4 Goku. Not to mention Goku got much more powerful as GT progressed and gained various amps to his SSJ4 form Omega Shenron was going to wipe out the entire macrocosm with his negative karma energy, which was condensed into an attack that SSJ4 Gogeta inverted and kicked like a soccer ball. We also know he could've used one finger to fight Omega Shenron if he really wanted to. To say he's leagues beyond SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta (let alone base kid Goku from GT) would be an understatement
@@throwawayinternetrp I mean Yeh; I didn’t watch it, but the idea that dragonball would have a new transformation that is weaker than a powerup from like 2 arcs before it? Kinda unreasonable
Okay but outside of ssj4 gogeta, unless you hyper wank GT, Cabba will unironically solo most the verse. Maybe not in base, but ssj4 goku and vegeta don't have any scaling to suggest they should be anywhere near that level of power. And there are some official guidebooks that compare ssj4 goku from the baby arc to Super vegito, someone cabba is directly thousands of times above if not higher. I get that it's frustrating to hear, I'd be annoyed too, but you can't hate on them for being (mostly) accurate.
@@xeratovildan9871 Ok but like shacking all of Otherworld with Hell,Heaven and the inbetween while not meaning to and in base is certainly impressive. And that is a mistranslation as it wasn't comparing Baby Arc SSJ4 Goku to Super Vegetto but rather the boost that SSJ4 offered being that which Vegetto in Super Saiyan was to Goku and Vegeta. So in other words in Buu Saga if Goku or Vegeta were to go into the exact same Multiplier for Super Saiyan 4 as Goku did in Baby saga their power would be on level of Super Vegetto.
@@xeratovildan9871 No brother , only thing getting hyper wanked here is dbs . Sugoroku space destruction by Base GT Goku is well established to be soloing dbs so far, as the place is established an infinite simply between space and time as well as life and death. The comparison of Ssj4 and Vegito was multiplier with no mention of an arc , don't spread misinformation on this level , it's a bit disingenuous to say such wild stuff without watching the show , where statements since Base Rildo are implying the current characters are the strongest , with Super baby's statement being a 100% dead end already for dbz Vegito , and even that if we wank dbz Vegito in GT timeline saying he was actually much stronger than shown to be standing a chance to Base GT Goku in baby arc at all , which of course wouldn't apply to dbz Vegito in super continuity .
@KiraiKatsuji you wanna know the funny part about that multiplyer Since we know potara is A x B (i think it was in a Vjump) and ssj3 is only at 400x, that puts ssj4's multiplyer at what gokus base form was during the buu saga, with ssjg being even absurdly more, Its strange to think a ssj4 or ssjg would easily be able to take out near infinite ssj3s when all other forms are ballparks of each other in comparison
@@resentfuldragon Z anime. Z anime. The anime has outlandish statements and GT is the continuation of Z, including the movies. Super is the continuation of the manga. So yes it’s absurd but it’s the source material
Bro I'm pretty sure the amount of time this guy put in the explanation is immeasurable, I'm convinced! especially when he stated the possibility of GT being the events after BoG is insanely insane
"let me know what you think" I think powerscaling is completely rediculous and endlessly entertaining 😂 thanks for putting in the work of putting this together!
4:48 Uh no 1. He didn't stand a chance to beat Beerus even with SSG, point moot 2. SSJ Gogeta was matching SSJ Broly while Base Ape Broly was slamming SSG Goku 3. He didn't explicitly say Vegito, he said fusion, so that means Vegito or Gogeta, don't try with the canon argument 4. we don't even know if Potara fusion can keep Vegito in Super Saiyan 3 5. if you factor out the retcon, now it becomes a topic about how the writers could even add Vegito into the movie if he was a permanent fusion & the movie isn't even about him.
This is actually a well-constructed video with no bias on either side and presents the facts as they are. Respect. I honestly didn't know GT was that strong.
tbh i am tired of the people getting mad at the power scaling. The androids and cell are literally hundreds of times stronger than frieza and they wee created by a MERE HUMAN. Buu is literally the exact same fucking thing. Created by magic and it can overscale the so-called gods (kaioshins) with no effort at all. CREATED BY AN ALIEN RAT WITH DOWN SYNDROME AND A CRACK ADDICTION 😭 This was all on the same universe. Now cabba is from ANOTHER universe which is 100% canon that universes dont follow the same rules as the others. (goku and friends couldnt sense triangle of danger's ki. In u7, it would mean either android, god ki or dead. But since goku cannot also sense their ki, it has to be that it just works differently) U6 saiyans are far stronger than SS3. Lets just accept it, they are way more evolved and they dont follow necessarily the same rules as u7. Trying to imply the same rules to other dimensions and paralel universes is so STUPID. Its even mentioned in the anime how they cant feel their opponents ki most of the time cuz they are from other realities separated of what WE, the viewers, grew up.
We can go back further than that the Z-Fighters trained with Popo and somehow became stronger than Raditz which required Piccolo and Goku to kill. Everyone pretends that Super is when the scaling gets whacky when people get crazy ass power ups throughout Z with no real explanation
@@sketchysketches381 remember when yamcha and tien took out the ginyu force so easily? They surpassed goku and vegeta from saiyan saga when goku literally had the same training as them (Even if its not canon cuz its filler. But the guy from the video uses filler and movies separated from the official material so this could also be a valid argument
@@FaultehBoi I've started to consider the anime as a separate canon to the manga. It's just easier to consider it as it's own timeline. I honestly count the filler because it's not crazier than any of the other scaling and people really talk about movies, manga, and anime as completely different things unless it was stated otherwise by a reputable source. Lots of people that do scaling casually have never even picked up the manga lol
@@sketchysketches381 i see manga and kai as canon since well... manga was first and most of the events in DBS are not related to filler. (Frieza not knowing about buu vs goku. This was perfect for me. No idea how zorbet and crew knows but i rather dbs frieza with him being less of a "spoiled child" and he knoiwng about goku defeating buu was shocking but he was like "i recognize he became strong... i gotta change something then")
Great video. One thing you missed is Buu arc Kai version still uses the same Buuhan dimensional feat, and possibly the Goku and Pikkon traveling to hell feat as well.
Ok this needs to stop. This is stupid. Cabba would be smacked by SS4 Gogeta. He couldn't even stand to fight against normal Vegeta. Not everyone is stronger in GT than they were in Z but it's stupid to think someone who couldn't even compare to a base form could even beat a character who could move so fast that he hit Omega with 6 punches and no one could tell.
I know it's not a canon way to measure power level, but the dramatic finishes in DBFZ heavily imply SSJ4 gogeta and gogeta blue to be on equal footing because their dramatic finishes go both ways. Yeah I understand the games really don't mean anything in terms of the anime, but ssj4 isn't even canon in the first place so the fact that every non-canon game and depiction of it clearly portrays x100 big bang kamehameha as an immediate 1 shot is pretty telling. A non-canon character portrayed in non-canon games as having the single most powerful move in just about any depiction of dragonball outside of the anime has gotta tell you that SSJ4 is absolutely one of their favorites, and if beerus can be a moving goal post of power level, so can SSJ4 if they really wanted to. Heck, LSSJ wasn't a canon form until recently and if you power scaled super Goku to Z broly it wouldn't even be close. But the second LSSJ becomes canon it's so far above super saiyan blue that even both blue vegeta and blue goku couldn't beat it separately, they HAD to fuse. So who's to say SSJ4 won't become canon, and if it does, it's obvious it would be scaled up much like LSSJ to match or even surpass super saiyan blue.
An excellent video that gives both a fair shake. Refreshing to see a “Gogeta wins” take that isn’t just saying Cabba doesn’t scale to God level because reasons (usually bad ones). My only issue/point of contention would be that Gogeta has infinite speed while Cabba doesn’t. I don’t see how the shockwaves reaching outside U7 to the Supreme Kai world isn’t infinite speed when flying from heaven to hell is. Gogeta would probably still be faster (how exactly one is faster when you’re both infinite speed I don’t know, but hey, Dragon Ball, don’t question it), I just can’t buy it being an infinite difference. Especially because those shockwaves would also have to be crossing heaven and hell to destroy the whole thing. Would love to see your take on Super Goku vs GT Goku, preferably the manga for the former because the powerscaling there isn’t as wack, but I certainly wouldn’t complain if you went with anime.
When both are infinite speed and one us just faster it's not really just a DB, but Powerscaling in general. Tho it is based on a concept that some infinites can be bigger than others.
I definately agree with your critique with cabba not also being infiinite speed and to answer the infinity thing. Infinites can be bigger than another by theory, an example being that you add by +1 infinatly and as infinity does it goes on forever, now lets say you add by +2 infinatly, that means it goes on forever as well but the key difference being that adding by +2 will always be bigger than just by adding by +1. Now this theory is not exactly confirmed but assumed and it was created by a man named Georg Cantor in the 19th century i believe. So i hope this answers your question!
@@dogevillage7184 Infinities can come in different sizes, but not all of them are different sizes. Adding +2 infinitely is the same as adding +1 infinitely; they are both countably infinite. It's a misconception about the sizes of infinity.
Few things It's kinda weird to scale base RoF Goku above when Goku was raging out and shattering his limits against Beerus. That one punch took everything out of him and was really desperate. Maybe he got a big zenkai but if it covers the gap is hard to say Super would also have infinite speed since the BoG feat is covering all the realms including the Kaioshin one-outside the macrocosm. The Vegito upscaling is also much higher in GT. Baby's 2nd form has numerous statements of having the greatest Saiyan power in history, obviously including Z Vegito. Stack a SS3 like form, then oozaru, that's equal to SS4 Goku then stack training and amps and zenkais and limit breaks then he fuses with Vegeta.
Agreed. With the Vegito scaling alongside the Buu's and Uub, onecould argue Vegito was surpassed even before Super Baby 1 showed up. Depending on how you scale end of Z Goku and Uub.
@xeratovildan9871 the problem with the guide book is that the page it's on is comparing Goku's forms throughout Z and Gt. It's not comparing the power between baby arc ss4 Goku nor Z Vegito. Even then the guide gives a very vague statement on who wins between Vegito and SS4. Context matters.
@@xeratovildan9871 And DBS has shown base fusions far outclass Super Saiyan God, let alone a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. Also source material> anyway. Buu was left in the dust early in GT's first arc, Vegito wasn't far behind.
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 Fusions grow with the characters since their multipliers are based on their individual power. Fusion can easily start weaker than the peak of a character's power before eventually growing stronger w/o any transformation amps.
I'm over here licking my fingers. It's nice watching an actual in depth explanation, using actual scaling, on why GT doesn't get soloed by some of the weakest Super characters lmao
Cabba is nowhere near weakest in super, the fact this guy uses base cabba from early in the series shows how cracked cabba is. I don't think cabba at his best beats gogeta ssj4 but its clearly a close fight by top.
@resentfuldragon I didn't necessarily mean Cabba specifically, I moreso refer to people glazing Super so hard that if someone like Hercule manages to even punch Goku in ssj blue, people would probably believe he solos GT.
This really just proves that scaling is nonsense. It´s all fiction, and characters ¨scale¨ for plot convivence. Future Gohan trained for years, he is older than main timeline Gohan, and trained way more and way harder, yet he was weaker than Yadrat Goku, who is hundreds of times weaker than main timeline Gohan. People who pretend they can come up with ¨objective answers¨ to hypothetical fights by clunching numbers are deluding themselves. Yes, it´s fun, but let´s not take it seriously. At the end of the day, these are drawings with text attached to them, the strongest one is the one the man drawing the pictures says is the strongest, and that´s it. And I guarantee you, neither Akira or Toyotaro ever made math calculations to find out who wins a fight.
that gohan lost everyone, didn't really have much food to eat and was training alone. He had no training partner and was basically getting it out the mud as a kid to adulthood. With no one to train with and no hyperbolic time chamber, he can't get as strong as a Gohan with his teachers and friends to train with would.
My friends, whoever says that cabba solos, he doesn't. Ssj4=SSJGSSB. Aka super Saiyan blue. So, Cabba is cooked. Unless he gets zenkai hacks and transforms into ssj4.
Ummm if DBS Goku scales higher than Buu saga Goku then doesn’t that mean that base Cabba also has infinite speed because he scales higher than BOG Goku?
Super just proves how weak U7 is. We learn in the Moro arc that kid buu had all of the God ki from the original supreme Ki. And since kid buu lost to "Goku", that means kid buu was actually pretty week. And since base vegeta was somehow struggling with base Cabba, then u7 is the weakest universe
All this video resumes in one thing, "Beyond God State" was a form only used in FnoF movie, it was discarted in the moment we see Vegeta and Goku use regular SSJ. So Cabba scales in a BASE Vegeta, and that put him below SSJ from Buu saga but a lot stronger that Base Vegeta from that time (maybe around 10 or 20 times? It can't be that much since the training with Whiss was focused in the control of Divine Ki and with that transform to SSB, the base form was pretty much left behind mostly because of the state "Beyond God" being discarted in the next arc).
This was extremely dishonest,”gogeta has infinite speed cus goku and pikkon crossed hell” what about bog goku and beerus ki that was going to instantly destroy all of the macrocosm ? And them scaling to their attacks speed being able to react to it ? Ur just dishonest doing this for views
That feat is literally only because Godku was clashing with an opponent equal/stronger than him, What opponent in GT was equal to or stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta for him to clash against?
Cause said "explicit attack" wasnt even gonna destroy the universe at once with a single attack. If you actually watch gt,omega wasn't even gonna do that in one attack. The negative energy was gonna take over one planet, then spread from planet to planet til it eventually envelops the universe. We don't know definitively how long it would take for that to happen but omega can't be universal-multiversal if he's affecting the universe for a pronged period of time. That's like when people say kid Buu is universal cause the universe will eventually be done for if they let kid buu loose. Literally in the anime he goes from planet to planet destroying them not in one attack.
@@DivineZenkai then they’re not even remotely similar feats in terms of strength? My apologies, in the video he classes both ssjg Goku and Omega Shenron as multiversal, so I thought he was saying they were equal. Now I understand that he meant there us a massive power gap but they where still able to destroy a multiverse, given time
@@DivineZenkai Youre confused on how it scales, when youre affecting an infinite space or several instances of infinities it is irrelevant on how you do it. Because infinites are, well infinite.
While the manga isn't used in this video, it confirms that Beerus controlling the shockwave to even out the clash between him and Goku is what saved U7. They were very much capable of doing that the entire fight, it was Beerus stopping it with his ki control
@@rytyrocks518 It's not irrelevant in this circumstance, because we're talking about power output which is something that is dependent on the amount of time it takes to exert that power. Destroying an infinite universe almost instantly is going to output more power than destroying an infinite universe over time.
The whole issue of base Goku with the power of SSJGod seems silly to me at this point. Clearly that was discarded since the Champa saga when Toei and Toriyama realized that if Goku did not transform back into the SSJ and SSJGod versions they would lose money on figures and toys. If Super Base Goku/Vegeta really was equal to or stronger than SSJGod, how could SSJ Vegeta not be able to lift Magetta who weighs 1000 Tons? Not only that, Future Trunks fought an SSJ2 Goku. That also puts him at the level of a God when a year ago he barely managed to defeat Dabura?😂
Just means Trunks got stronger. Also basing this off the Dragon Ball Timeline on the wiki but Trunks vs Dabura apparently happens a few years before he goes back to the past, not one. It's still stupid obviously but he has to that strong even if you think it's ass writing (I do think so). As for Vegeta not being able to lift Magetta, it is very strange. Dragon ball has always had some strange lifting strength antifeats, like GT Goku being shown struggling to lift up a building and going SSJ4 to do it, or Pan struggling to carry just a few people or even Goku thinking he needs to go super saiyan to lift 40 tons total in the buu saga. It's very silly considering Roshi literally blows up the moon in the 2nd arc of the series but what can we do. SSJ Vegeta not being able to lift a 1,000 ton Magetta is also manga only (in which Goku isn't shown absorbing god unlike the anime) so it wouldn't necessarily apply to the anime scaling regardless.
Dragon Ball Super manga ep 11. Vegeta in SSJ tries to lift Magetta with all his effort and can't. Beerus then reproaches Vegeta that Mageta weighs 1000 tons and he couldn't lift it. Now I repeat. Really, someone who is supposedly 50 times stronger than ssjGod can't lift 1000 tons?
It’s verbatim stated by vegeta (in his thoughts not to cabba) that they were equal. That is not in character for vegeta to admit IN HIS OWN THOUGHTS. If he said it out loud then there’s an argument to help motivate cabba, but him saying it in his thoughts is different
I'm with the opinion that in some dragon ball fights you have to turn off ur brain and simply enjoy a fight as scaling and statements can be very very inconsistent. Still gotta say that the GT Gogeta vs Base Cabba meme is hilarious, the back and forth on who would ironically win is crazy.
I dont really understand this, wdym? Super does not Follow Z? and why cant i use Z to scale Super since Kai is something made for the 20th Anniversary of DB and all Kai does is cut the Fillers and Akira stated himself that Fillers are canon. SO this part was just weird. Even if we decided to follow your logic, Cabba is at least 5D, since he is stronger than SSG Goku that is able to destroy the entire macrocosm. which was stated in a guide to Transcend the living universe. ``a dimensionally transcendental heavenly country``. so i would say Cabba wins
@@JackoJaxko That doesnt really prove anything. Super is connected to Z, there is nothing that disproves this or maybe there is, because apparently You cant scale super using Z but i guess using Kai that is fine.
@@onyx6774 then tell me how would super fit in with end of z if pan is 3 years old in the original yet in superhero pan IS 3 yet superhero takes place 1 year before end of Z, Super has to be a different continuity from the original otherwise it makes no fucking sense
@@JackoJaxkoAt the end of Z she is 4 btw. Also she is older, but GT treats Bra as older. My problem is that apparently its Okay to scale Gt using DBZ but not Super. Super takes place between the gap of Majin Buu and end of Z. this was explained a lot of times and confirmed to be the case. It doesnt matter if you like it or not. Akira said this to be the case and even toei themselfs, their words matter more than yours. GT wasnt planned. DBZ ends with Z because akira wanted that to be the end of the series. so using this Logic Gt shouldnt scale with DBZ either.
Fun fact: the super exciting-guide on page 59 states that otherworld has no concept of time. Saiyan saga goku was moving through this realm from king kai's planet back to enma's check-in station. Saiyan saga goku can move in places where time does not exist. Cabba and Gogeta 4 have this feat and scale above him. Both of them have immeasurable speed.
"Base Cabba solos all of Z!" "SS4 Gogeta will just wreck him with a finger!" _Fools....._ "What did you say??" Base Tarble: _"Weaklings, the both of them"_
I watched the video. The scaling was just wrong, like bro used Goku and pikkon travelling from heaven to hell as an argument for giving Gogeta ssj4 (GT) infinite speed but at the same time said that bog Goku was a couple octillion times the speed of light for his attacks effecting the entire universe really quickly? Like heaven and hell are in the universe, bog Goku should also have infinite speed. Though he was right in the part that base cabba was wayyyyyyyy more powerful than Gogeta but just not skilled in comparison to him.
Me, waiting for a two part video where GT Goku and Super Goku each run gauntlets in the other's series, using each just shortly after they achieved their first new form (SSJ4 and SSJG) Would either make it all the way through? Could you see any type of catalist that leads to either reaching a new level?
The whole line of him absorbing the power i feel is a bit convoluted, do you think caba would fair in a fight with berus on the same kinda fight him and goku had?
8:16 shouldn't cabba be infinite speed/ inaccessible speed since he scales to base Goku who was able to move in a place with no space or time, plus the supressed beerus who is equal to ssg goku nullified an attack which was going to erase the universe giving him infinite speed of the bat
I don't see how moving in a place with no space or time would mean he's infinite when moving in distance could still be scaled regardless of space or time existing
@@streetgamer3452 nope, in a place with no time or space or world at all no timeline not universe no distance no time you shouldn't be able to move at all so since they were clearly moving in it, it makes them beyond space - time and they would need inaccessible speeds and above to achieve that movement in a such a place
@@superrobo that makes absolutely no sense. What says you can't move in something with no space or time? Also, There IS distance. It's how far they move. You can never achieve infinite speed. The moment you stop is the moment you created an end point and thus have stopped moving in infinity. Infinity is something without a beginning and endpoint, unless they never stop moving for infinity, Goku will always end up moving a certain distance, not infinite distance. This entire "feat" is easily one of the dumbest DB has ever created because it acts like infinity can be measured but it cannot. What can be is distance and him moving even without space or time creates distance that can be measured by someone.
@streetgamer3452 technically, the most important part is the "no time" part, as speed is distance/time. However, distance still would not exist because it's the space between no points, and since there's no space, there's no distance.
@@SnailSnail-lo4pm except distance would exist. The first point is where Goku started. The end point is where he stopped. Distance exist even without any space to be on
You misinterpreted Omega Shenron being able to "destroy the universe". Omega Shenron's dark energy was only going to "corrode" the universe with its special properties which would have eventually destroyed it if kept unchecked but it's not a raw feat and doesn't prove anything when it comes to his physical power. If that was the case then SSJ4 Gogeta who was MASSIVELY stronger than Omega would have done the exact same thing but to a much larger scale, but he couldn't. Negative energy is just a naturally corrosive type of Ki which is why it destroys everything around it, that's also why the Negative Karma Ball threatened to destroy the mortal realm, because it's powered by negative energy. Omega himself does not actually scale to the negative energy that he exerts from his body and Ki and cannot actually destroy the entire macrocosm near instantaneously like Goku in BOG almost did
@@RetroMagnus761 Goku destroying that Sugoroku Space dimension by using a kamehameha, and threatening to destroy he|| by powering up all while in base is impressive though
@@just_an_internet_explorer8038 The Suguroku Space and the realm that holds it are specifically stated to transcend the platonic concepts of space and time so even at a lowball the realm should be outerversal. The problem is GT Goku never actually scales to the dimension itself. It was already collapsing prior to him supposedly "destroying" it and even that isn't concrete since it was never actually shown that Goku destroyed the Suguroku Space, only that he was able to escape from it.
Corrosive ki by nature. Just like Beerus destructive ki, and Gogeta's positive ki. Does that ki have it's own powerlevel as well, or do we just count it as a tool? But then, what we do with Goku's ki in BOG, is it godly ki now, or just generelly on that level? And what does it say about Gogeta's powerlevel since even "special" ki has no effect on him.
You can also say instead making a 10 min explanation of who wins. This is the easier explanation and less complicated and confusing. So, In Dragon ball superheroes ssj4 goku went against ui goku. ssj4 goku was about to win but he lost. We all know that ui goku so much more stronger than ssj4. So ssj4 goku can beat cabba . So why even compare because you are just adding on more power by fusing with vegeta. Yall still have the guts to compare.
7:12 the problem with black smoke shenron is they dont say how long it would take him to destroy the universe or exactly how he would do it. We see from omega shenrons actual plan is to lead the universe into "ruin" or a state of rot and decay that would eventually cause everything in the universe to die. Thats technically not even a universal AP level attack because hes not actually destroying the universe, just causing it to decay at a heightened rate. If he could just destroy rhe universe, why bother rotting it away overtime. That seems like a waste of time if anything. Even though GT is supposed to be a continuation of the z anime, its scaling is far worse. Even in the GT perfect files(guide books published by shueisha), ssj 4 gogeta is only considereds to be tens or dozens of times stronger than ssj 4 goku. This proves the metamormin fusion dance was weaker in GT than it was in any other appearance. You're rellying too much on Z established concepts and not looking at GT itself. Also the kid buu feat isnt comparable to god. Goku was gonna destroy the entire universe 7 macrocosm. Kid buus power only extends from the living universe to the kai realm, not the other seperate dimensions. They only get to god levels with super vegito and buuhan where their attacks are actually threatening to destroy and shaking apart the entire macrocosm.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this all started because of a throw away line Vegeta said and a beam clash? Sorry, but if that's true, I don't believe for a second Cabba could solo DBZ let alone SS4 Gogeta. There is such little evidence that Cabba possesses such power, making this theory questionable at best.
I don't agree with much of what is in this video, but Vegeta in Res-F one shot someone who was outright stated to be as strong as Mystic Gohan was in Buu Saga, and he did this in base, so at min Cabba > All of Z, as for GT SSjB > SSj4 Full Power, and this was Res-F SSjB, so U6/TOP era SSjB is going to be MUCH stronger, meaning SSj Cabba is likely greater then Gogeta SSj4, and SSj2 Cabba is probably overkill. (In this SSj Cabba would be stronger then Res-F Blue, and SSj2 Cabba is prob just a bit weaker then TOP Blue). End of TOP Goku/Vegeta would solo all of GT without much if any hassle just using SSjB, they wouldn't even need UI/UE.
@@Vintagesonic1 If this is your thought process then your reading comprehension is sad. Super scales above DBZ point blank period, your head canon is awful.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"Kakarot we need to fuse! This is base Cabba we're up against!"
🤣🤣🤣
Im a gt fan but i love these agendas 😂
@@randomrave6635 Stop calling everything an agenda.
@@mups4016but it is an agenda?
No bro base gt vegeta Is enough uub gohan is enough
His full name is Base Cabba
The Goku (Mid) of Super
Firefly saying this would be son funny
First name Base, last name Cabba
(SSJ2)Base Cabba would be OP
@@firefly_0619 Hi Firefly
Hydrogen baby vs Coughing bomb
@@Satsaru what?
@@Satsaru baby hydrogen vs bomb coughing
@@minhhoangvo4759 baby bomb vs hydrogen coughing
@@Gogeta791-Edits coughing hydrogen vs bomb baby
@@minhhoangvo4759 theres no more 😭
I've been watching DragonBall for over 20 years and because of this video I finally understand why people make fun of power scalers.
Real
Fr, that's all Because of the: Goku absorbed god ki in his base, but it's a transformation actually with a name: ssj beyond god that is the base form with god ki. So base Goku isn't the level of his battle with beerus
@@pedroluisdesouzaresende777 he is 😭. It’s stated he absorbed the power, not the god ki itself. It’s added to his base power and not another technique or form. Nice try tho. GT gets curb stomped. Hell, I’ll prove to you why despite what this video says, base cabba still curbstomps gogeta.
@Lineproof i hate those power scalers i'm telling you it's a form It literally has a name, so Basically you proposing that universe 6 sayajins can just give a good fight to beerus IN BASE like Goku did in battle of gods? That's the stupidest shi ever cause then his ssj form would be equivalent to ssj blue on resurection f (ssj god multiplier). And If you say: oh but Goku and vegeta got stronger in base then that means Gohan and 17 who fought against Goku are beyond ssj god (battle of gods) level since he transformed in BLUE too?
@@Lineproof Your whole reasoning is disproved by the fact that both Vegeta and Goku power up to SSG and become immensely stronger. "Death of the author" ahh comment
These debates are so stupid 😭
its for the agenda
thank you for clearing things up coz i was gtting tired of this
Everything DragonBall related after 2005 has bothered my spirit greatly.
I just try to not take it too serious and enjoy the specific aspects that originally made me fond of the franchise.
@@Est_1.997real shit bro
its because dragon ball scaling has been a joke since dbz. I'ts mind boggling people still take it seriously lmao.
You can literally have scenes where character A says "lol Im x8888 times stronger than you" and 3 panels later Character B slaps character A.
“ Kakarot , we need to fuse. This is super krillin we are up against…”
@@kennydubrey3568 lmao
Unironically , I think super Krillin claps atleast Majin Buu since he tanked a supressed SSJ Blue Goku
@@brolysupersaiyan1634 Krilin isn't even Z Ginyu level, he had trouble with randoms Moro soldiers (Dodoria level soldiers lol)
lmao you can literally make the same argument but with Krillin and he actually fought against blue Goku and lasted more than 5 seconds
@@erikgt2559how do you know the Moro goons aren't way stronger than dodoria tho
We all know they are both warm ups for UI Yamcha
ui yamcha destroys zeno
I love Masakox's what if Yamcha was the strongest.
Real
Ui Yamcha and Shaggy are the strongest beings, so of course Ui Yamcha solos
In the manga Roshi _imitated_ Ultra Instinct and was able to dodge Jiren's attacks multiple times. Unironically I think you might be right.
"that boy cabba got ssj2?! my ahh better stay in GT or else I'm FINISHED 😭😭"
😭 citizens of universe 7 lend me some ki this is base cabba we’re up against
@@doodoobam5221cabba after tanking big bang kahmehameha
"Thank you, Base Cabba."
"It's for the agenda."
Na these comments too funny bruh
Mr popo DBZ saga solos cabba and other u6 Saiyans
Regardless of how much evidence there is in favor of Cabba, the simple truth is that we will never see him beating SSJ4 Gogeta in any anime, game, or manga unless they play it as a joke. Dragon Ball doesn’t care about power scaling nearly as much as the community would like it to. If this fight ever happens, they are going to give the win to SSJ4 Gogeta.
@@M.E.D.I.C.I.N.E just because narratively ssj4 gogeta is likely going to win, this clearly states it’s about power scaling, which is where cabba stomps
@@thetf8142 I know, but this whole discussion will never go anywhere. So far I do believe cabba wins based just on power scaling, but power scaling is not an exact science, the writers might even do an ass pull and say gogeta does have god ki and that's why his hair is red. I think there are better things to focus on about dragon ball.
@@M.E.D.I.C.I.N.E well I mean yea, power scaling is wonky (master roshi keeping up with Jiren for example) but that’s just what it is, that’s why people like it. It’s a way to discuss different media that people enjoy.
Did you guys even watch the video?
@@thefitnessgrampacertestisa8483 I did. I know he said gogeta wins, but in terms of power scaling I'm still willing to say cabba wins because power scaling is stupid in dragon ball. Android 16, a robot, being stronger than frieza, n 17 being as strong as goku on the top because he trained. My point is that we can throw all of that out of the window because there is no way they are going to treat ssj4 gogeta like they treated frieza. Gogeta wins because he is more popular and can sell more toys, that's it
"Stand proud, SSJ4 Gogeta, you are strong" -Base Cabba 🐐
Who'd win: "A fusion formed from pinnacle of siayan race summoning the power of the legend and ozaru" OR
One back tingly boi
I'm pretty sure that was Caulifla, not Cabba.
God that back tingly thing is the stupidest thing I've EVER heard
@@AhmedHussain-ju6xd SSJ4 Gogeta was the combination of a Saiyan who got his power via a literal asspull and one who required a Blutz Wave Viagra machine to even transform
Cabba only compared the feeling of Super Saiyan, he never gained the form via that method, if anything his awakenings of SSJ and SSJ2 (in the anime at least) were some of the best in the entire series
Don’t fuck with Dragon Ball fans we haven’t even watched the show
@@FireofthetigerYT fam to say ssj4 was an ass pull is like saying the og ssj was an ass pull not to mention the blutz wave thing was the only way to make gogeta a thing in the show cuz vegeta didnt have his tail thats why i hate they did it that way cuz someone always saying something about it the thing is tho all it did was hit him with blutz waves basiclly making it like he stared at the moon it gave him no power boost all it did was trigger his great ape transformation then vegeta still had to then turn into ssj4 on his own ssj4 is a result of vegetas hard work over the years all he need was a tail
@@FireofthetigerYTThe last sentence is a good introduction for urself for calling one of the most earned forms an asspull lmao .
Although u're right Cabba's forms might just be one of most earned in dbs .
@@DestroyerRants ssj4 is an literal asspull he pulled his tail from his ass
Cabba got Zenkai hacks, he'd fight Gogeta for five minutes and just become SSJ4 out of nowhere.
"My back is SUPERRRRR TINGELING"
@@primesonic4459 the fact i could hear Franky's voice in the back of my head while reading your comment 😭
@@primesonic4459 that was kale and caulifla. Unironically bro was the only u6 saiyan to gain his power in a non bs way 😂.
@@digglesworths6255 I know
It's just so annoying and the entire batch now feels poisoned
@@digglesworths6255 To be fair, Cabba was the one who invent that method
This is the real Death Battle that we need
All because of Nathaniel ☝️
@@TheSaladBar Why aren’t you giving Z scaling to Super?
@@Jsipki265 beacause its the z anime Super goes off Kai scaling
@@hobobobo3204 Never stated and Goku recognized arale when he met her in DB og filler so kai is impossible to be canon to Super.
@@Jsipki265 you do realize goku meeting arale was a filler episode right? Not to mention even then gt has scaling to the movies of z which scale above super like the jenamba feat.
the glazing on cabba is crazy
Cabba wins because it's funnier, fuck the scaling
Facts, my fellow mortal, spit thy divine shit indeed!
Gohan blanco wins actually
@@ShubaSayori 👎
@@Serdun ᗜˬᗜ
@@ShubaSayori Nah, Krusty Krab Broly solos
It’s never about being right or wrong it’s about pushing the agenda
No agenda, just facts
@@VinceSonny-x6tnah. It's agenda
Agenda beats all facts and logic, but this time it's just the truth
That sums up the entire powerscaling subreddit
maintaining the agenda, is our top priority
Cabba is cracked, but imagine how strong would Majuub be if GT followed the moro arc
Majuub is probably going to be the strongest non-saiyan in the universe if his little feat in the Moro saga says anything
Base GT Goku destroyed sugoroku space which is established an infinite between space and time as well as life and death , a feat yet to be matched by dbs .
Don't really see how moro arc is supposed to make him stronger by scaling above weaker characters .
@@humanman9920 BoG Goku was about to break the universe just from getting hit and hitting back. That same feat was what made OMEGA SHENRON a big deal in GT. Goku was doing it in the beginning of Super just by tanking hits and throwing them back out.
@@humanman9920The Suguroku Space and the realm that holds it are specifically stated to transcend the platonic concepts of space and time so even at a lowball the realm should be outerversal. The problem is GT Goku never actually scales to the dimension itself. It was already collapsing prior to him supposedly "destroying" it and even that isn't concrete since it was never actually shown that Goku destroyed the Suguroku Space, only that he was able to escape from it.
@@SuperDababy2 Friendly reminder that Omega Shenron reaching multiversal is a big deal because he did it by fucking emoting.
absorbing super saiyan god into base just ruinged power scaling for me
like, would it really be that bad if that one thing was removed??
It isn’t in the manga to be fiar
@@laniswaray2220 true, i guess the problems started when toriyama left lol
It was clearly retconned in the anime. That's why goku uses the SS god form in the tournament. Goku and vegeta both use the god form in the Broly movie. They aren't stacking god form on god form.
@@Nathaniel-w5n what tells you that isn’t the case
@@laniswaray2220 common sense, forms don't stack, the fact vegeta didn't go through the god ritual(so he wouldn't have absorbed it into base), saiyan beyond god only being present in 1 movie, the obvious broken power scaling that makes much more sense if SS god being absorbed was retconned, the fact that it didnt happen in the manga, and the lack of any GOOD evidence to support otherwise.
Maintaining the agenda is our highest priority
fuck the agenda
"WE SAIYANS HAVE NO LIMITS!!!!!"🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥
CABBA DA 🐐
@@chuviis3508 LETS CHARGE TOGETHER AT FULL POWER
RAHHHHHHH
GAME OVER 🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸📸
G4 THE GOAT SLAYER 😂
Lol
Honestly, really good video. I respect the fact you made it clear GT is a continuation of the Z Anime and what that actually means.
@SaiyanScholar You need to make a video about this, too. These super fanboys are getting out of control.
@@Top_E_Official super fanboys act like their series only one hit these high levels of scaling
@@Top_E_Official exactly
U should make a video of this goat
@@Nighproductions All done guys!
Stand proud SS4 gogeta… you are strong.
“What,” “What is this?”
SS4 Gogeta : if Cabba uses SS3 I would be in trouble
Vegito : But would you lose ?
SS4 Gogeta : nah i'd win
Cabba: eemeemrmmrmrmrm my back is REALLY tingling now….
*turns SSJ4*
I honestly don't argue about power levels since the anime's scaling is hyper inconsistent across super and gt and you could make arguments either way outside the top tiers of super aka Toppo, kefla, and everything above them. This stands in the manga as well for it being less erratic and consistent.
All that to say if going by anime canon ssj4 is highly comparable to ssg with ssj4 gogeta being a weaker alternative to ssj blue vegito. Ssj4 goku or vegeta wipe any of the Universe 6 characters sub Kale, Hit, and Kefla without fusing.
Yeah, I'm a fan of both GT and Super. I really like Cabba, but I'm completely fine with SS4 Gogeta beating Cabba after a half decent fight.
Even if SS2 Cabba was stronger by pure power levels, it wouldn't be by that much and Gogeta would have had a lot more battle experience than Cabba, by the sheer fact that there's two battle hardened Saiyans in one body.
I'll stick with the memes though. They're hilarious.
Can't believe this debate has returned lol
Nothing but pure goofiness
"lets postpone our fight for now base cabba" said super soy 4
Ah, I see your a one-piece fan with this quote. Nice, a person of culture.
"Yes, that would be the most advantageous for both of us!", responded Base Chadbba
Love how the memes spread outside of Reddit
Super Soyian
Coming from Cabba the Soyian.
Cabbage Vs Ssj4 Carrot
Carrot Salad*
Mixed Veg
If Saiyan names are based on vegetables and literally vegetable then the fusions should have been names for popular salad names that include the two vegetables fused together. As much as Vegito and Gogeta are iconic, i would have wanted this to be real.
Also, Half Sayians like Gohan wich have more vauge names should get more vauge names that are still based on their original names.
Only way to make this battle close is if Gogeta uses 100% for the full time limit. But even the Base Cabba is probably only using 70%
A common mistake with using the Z anime filler for scaling when it comes to Pikkon comparing to Goku is that people make the mistake of trying to use that filler to say Base Buu Saga Goku > Cell. The problem with this is that the Z anime also confirms that Adolescent Gohan is weaker than he was against cell during the start of the Buu Saga. This would imply that base Goku > Adolescent SSJ2 Gohan and of course Teen SSJ2 Gohan. This is easily debunked by the Z anime itself when Goku enters SSJ2 against Majin vegeta who praises him for becoming stronger than Gohan was against Cell. This means that Buu Saga Goku in the anime canon must enter SSJ2 to surpass SSJ2 Teen Gohan and Perfect Cell.
Also, the movies can't be lumped in with the anime canon. The movies are even in their own seperate universe from the base Z anime.
As far as continuities are concerned there is DBZ Anime, DBZ Kai (closer to manga), and DBZ movies which may or may not be tied directly to GT. While Cooler does show in GT, that doesn't necessarily confirm that GT is in the same canon as all of the movies, but rather that in GT's continuity, there was also a Cooler. There is no official confirmation that GT is a continuation of the DBZ Movie-verse continuity, only that it is a continuation of the original DBZ anime.
For anyone who read this, thank you for your time.
Powerscaling was never consistent in any dragon ball series ever
@TheBloccobill False. If you think it never had consistency, you simply didn't pay attention or ride the bandwagon of other people claiming it didn't.
@TheBloccobill please point out one power inconsistency from the saiyan saga through the Cell Saga.
For anyone that read that, please disregard it, it’s just more misinformation from a person that doesn’t actually understand how the creators think when making the series.
Truth is that while the statement about Goku, SSJ2 Youth Gohan, Cell etc. may make sense, the creators do NOT care about all of that, and ARE NOT that consistent when explaining all of this. If you watched Salad’s video he mentions how Toei added in a lot of ORIGINAL content that didn’t appear in the manga, meaning the filler is only in the anime and because it’s the anime, can still be used as it neither goes past or beyond manga adapted content into the anime, it’s in the middle, like most filler. Whole time for the anime, since it’s actually original content specifically made for the anime, it can’t even be considered filler. So while it may not make sense, this is just what the creators made apart of an already great story TO ADD MORE DEPTH TO THE SERIES. Fortunately you are allowed to take Dragonball however you’d like, but just remember the creators have the final say on what happened and happens, not you.
Another thing, the movies ARE apart of the DBZ Anime, and yes, because of this, they are apart of the DBGT Storyline. They are NOT apart of an alternate universe, the creator Akira Toriyama specifically said that he TAKES the movies as an alternative universe, and is purely an AUDIENCE MEMBER for them. He has no say for the movies, if you want to know who does? Look no further than Takao Koyama, the Screenwriter and Producer for the DBZ anime (+ the movies) and DBGT, and he said on twitter, that “the movies follow the Tv anime”, this literally confirms that the DBZ anime and its movies, lead into what would be known as DBGT, that is literally DIRECT CONFIRMATION THAT THE MOVIES APART OF THAT SAME STORY DUE TO THE DBGT ANIME BEING A DIRECT CONTINUATION FROM THE DBZ ANIME. So yes, COOLER DOES APPEAR IN GT BECAUSE HE WAS IN THE DBZ ANIME, ITS LITERALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT. HE IS NOT A DIFFERENT COOLER, HE IS THE SAME COOLER FROM COOLER’S REVENGE AND THE RETURN OF COOLER. Nothing has changed.
One more thing, Just enjoy the series, and don’t over complicate it when it’s not necessary, power scaling for DB is NOT real, these characters get stronger over time because it’s a JOURNEY, especially shown with Goku and Vegeta. You cannot Power scale when these characters get stronger over time, only time you’d even be able to do that is if you know a character has gotten weaker, and another character has possibly gotten stronger, then which it’d just be Weaker Vs. Stronger, and not Universal Vs. Boundless. DRAGONBALL IS VERY INCONSISTENT, Not completely though, but still VERY INCONSISTENT.
If you read all of this, hopefully it’ll start to finally sit, and thank you for taking the time, it’s time we stop spreading misinformation about one of the greatest anime’s of all time. R.I.P to Akira Toriyama, and thank you to Sensei Takao Koyama.
@@3gxerF-ty78Gubs-46gya The problem with everything you said is that you also aren't able to read the minds of the creators. The crux of my argument begins with base Goku vs Cell. Might I remind you that Pikkon is the one that defeated cell, not base Goku, and that the animators that made the filler also made Goku vs Pikkon, where Goku needed to use Kaioken SSJ to beat Pikkon. Based on the guides, Kaioken ×2 SSJ Goku would be equivalent to SSJ2 Goku because it doubles the SSJ multiplier.
This means it's consistent for Pikkon to scale above perfect Cell and that he's relative to SSJ2 Buu Saga Goku, not base Goku.
Based Cabba vs Goatgeta 4 is crazy
LMAO
People use that one vague unrelated magazine statement to downplay the shit out of GT and run with it. Any amount of actual thought put into it would make it obvious GT scales a lot higher than buu saga vegito lol
It canon but people are misinformed on what it means. It simply means ssj vegito multiplier is better than ssj4 multiplier. No where on the guild said anything about goku
Obviously it is to have easy argument for SSG>SSJ4
@@TCBlueFire Not better it **could be** better.
The way GT is downplayed is atrocious, coming from someone who prefers DBS. Base kid Goku was going to blow up hell by powering up, quite literally toyed with Frieza and Cell, was stated to have enough power to light up a galaxy, was going up against people comparable to Buu, and broke through a dimension with a measly Kamehameha. Again, all of this is in BASE
Baby Vegeta was already stronger than that Goku as a SS3. Super Baby Vegeta was already implied to be stronger than SSJ Vegito from the Buu saga, as Goku himself said it was the greatest power he had ever felt. Then he got another transformation, he got Golden Oozaru, and ONLY THEN was he able to match SSJ4 Goku. Not to mention Goku got much more powerful as GT progressed and gained various amps to his SSJ4 form
Omega Shenron was going to wipe out the entire macrocosm with his negative karma energy, which was condensed into an attack that SSJ4 Gogeta inverted and kicked like a soccer ball. We also know he could've used one finger to fight Omega Shenron if he really wanted to. To say he's leagues beyond SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta (let alone base kid Goku from GT) would be an understatement
@@throwawayinternetrp I mean Yeh; I didn’t watch it, but the idea that dragonball would have a new transformation that is weaker than a powerup from like 2 arcs before it? Kinda unreasonable
I mean, this is fair. Cabba was entered as one of the three strongest in his universe.
Which ended being false because Caulifla was stronger.
@@HeyItsFranklyn bro learn to read he said one of the three
@@TheBlaze22b I did read.
“One of the three strongest.” I assumed he meant of the people picked for the tournament not of all Saiyans.
@@HeyItsFranklyn does that mean caulifa destroys GT 💀💀
@@HeyItsFranklyn Caulfila, Kale, and Hit all being stronger
I like this breakdown! It's so detailed and fair
5:47 is bro buying guns in shibuya 🗣️🔥
FOR THE AGENDA🗣️🗣️🗣️💥
Maintaining the agenda is our top priority.
the jokes are absolutely hilarious, but as a gt fan i cant stand when some geek says "cabba unironically solos" because theyre baised against gt
Okay but outside of ssj4 gogeta, unless you hyper wank GT, Cabba will unironically solo most the verse. Maybe not in base, but ssj4 goku and vegeta don't have any scaling to suggest they should be anywhere near that level of power. And there are some official guidebooks that compare ssj4 goku from the baby arc to Super vegito, someone cabba is directly thousands of times above if not higher. I get that it's frustrating to hear, I'd be annoyed too, but you can't hate on them for being (mostly) accurate.
@@xeratovildan9871 Ok but like shacking all of Otherworld with Hell,Heaven and the inbetween while not meaning to and in base is certainly impressive.
And that is a mistranslation as it wasn't comparing Baby Arc SSJ4 Goku to Super Vegetto but rather the boost that SSJ4 offered being that which Vegetto in Super Saiyan was to Goku and Vegeta. So in other words in Buu Saga if Goku or Vegeta were to go into the exact same Multiplier for Super Saiyan 4 as Goku did in Baby saga their power would be on level of Super Vegetto.
@@xeratovildan9871 No brother , only thing getting hyper wanked here is dbs . Sugoroku space destruction by Base GT Goku is well established to be soloing dbs so far, as the place is established an infinite simply between space and time as well as life and death.
The comparison of Ssj4 and Vegito was multiplier with no mention of an arc , don't spread misinformation on this level , it's a bit disingenuous to say such wild stuff without watching the show , where statements since Base Rildo are implying the current characters are the strongest , with Super baby's statement being a 100% dead end already for dbz Vegito , and even that if we wank dbz Vegito in GT timeline saying he was actually much stronger than shown to be standing a chance to Base GT Goku in baby arc at all , which of course wouldn't apply to dbz Vegito in super continuity .
@KiraiKatsuji you wanna know the funny part about that multiplyer
Since we know potara is A x B (i think it was in a Vjump) and ssj3 is only at 400x, that puts ssj4's multiplyer at what gokus base form was during the buu saga, with ssjg being even absurdly more,
Its strange to think a ssj4 or ssjg would easily be able to take out near infinite ssj3s when all other forms are ballparks of each other in comparison
@@molassesman4066 That is ridiculous and at least in Super has been retconned to both fusee's added together and magnified by tens of times.
We glazing the U6 Saiyans with this one 🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥
bro said that goku has infinite speed in z, if that isn't nonsense then nothing is.
@@resentfuldragon Infinite speed Z Goku is actually crazy 💀
@@resentfuldragon Z anime. Z anime. The anime has outlandish statements and GT is the continuation of Z, including the movies. Super is the continuation of the manga. So yes it’s absurd but it’s the source material
@@jlorreno in return of cooler goku can move within no-time. Literally transcending time before hit made it cool
Bro I'm pretty sure the amount of time this guy put in the explanation is immeasurable, I'm convinced! especially when he stated the possibility of GT being the events after BoG is insanely insane
"let me know what you think"
I think powerscaling is completely rediculous and endlessly entertaining 😂 thanks for putting in the work of putting this together!
0:05 That Cabba vs SSJ4 Gogeta rendition of Mihawk vs Vista panel has me DYING! 😂😂
The agenda is atrocious 😂
Who cares I'm gonna use goget4 to kick people's ass in sparking zero anyway
Based on
@@Colecionador7162 would be funny as hell if base cabba gets stronger when fighting goget4 specifically
4:48 Uh no
1. He didn't stand a chance to beat Beerus even with SSG, point moot
2. SSJ Gogeta was matching SSJ Broly while Base Ape Broly was slamming SSG Goku
3. He didn't explicitly say Vegito, he said fusion, so that means Vegito or Gogeta, don't try with the canon argument
4. we don't even know if Potara fusion can keep Vegito in Super Saiyan 3
5. if you factor out the retcon, now it becomes a topic about how the writers could even add Vegito into the movie if he was a permanent fusion & the movie isn't even about him.
This is actually a well-constructed video with no bias on either side and presents the facts as they are. Respect. I honestly didn't know GT was that strong.
tbh i am tired of the people getting mad at the power scaling.
The androids and cell are literally hundreds of times stronger than frieza and they wee created by a MERE HUMAN.
Buu is literally the exact same fucking thing. Created by magic and it can overscale the so-called gods (kaioshins) with no effort at all. CREATED BY AN ALIEN RAT WITH DOWN SYNDROME AND A CRACK ADDICTION 😭
This was all on the same universe. Now cabba is from ANOTHER universe which is 100% canon that universes dont follow the same rules as the others.
(goku and friends couldnt sense triangle of danger's ki. In u7, it would mean either android, god ki or dead. But since goku cannot also sense their ki, it has to be that it just works differently)
U6 saiyans are far stronger than SS3. Lets just accept it, they are way more evolved and they dont follow necessarily the same rules as u7.
Trying to imply the same rules to other dimensions and paralel universes is so STUPID. Its even mentioned in the anime how they cant feel their opponents ki most of the time cuz they are from other realities separated of what WE, the viewers, grew up.
We can go back further than that the Z-Fighters trained with Popo and somehow became stronger than Raditz which required Piccolo and Goku to kill. Everyone pretends that Super is when the scaling gets whacky when people get crazy ass power ups throughout Z with no real explanation
finally some decent, sound fucking logic and reasoning
@@sketchysketches381 remember when yamcha and tien took out the ginyu force so easily? They surpassed goku and vegeta from saiyan saga when goku literally had the same training as them
(Even if its not canon cuz its filler. But the guy from the video uses filler and movies separated from the official material so this could also be a valid argument
@@FaultehBoi I've started to consider the anime as a separate canon to the manga. It's just easier to consider it as it's own timeline. I honestly count the filler because it's not crazier than any of the other scaling and people really talk about movies, manga, and anime as completely different things unless it was stated otherwise by a reputable source. Lots of people that do scaling casually have never even picked up the manga lol
@@sketchysketches381 i see manga and kai as canon since well... manga was first and most of the events in DBS are not related to filler. (Frieza not knowing about buu vs goku. This was perfect for me. No idea how zorbet and crew knows but i rather dbs frieza with him being less of a "spoiled child" and he knoiwng about goku defeating buu was shocking but he was like "i recognize he became strong... i gotta change something then")
Great video. One thing you missed is Buu arc Kai version still uses the same Buuhan dimensional feat, and possibly the Goku and Pikkon traveling to hell feat as well.
Nathaniel is fr the true pillar of the dragon ball community.
The goat…
@@ilovenierreplicant2983 ayo?
Ok this needs to stop. This is stupid. Cabba would be smacked by SS4 Gogeta. He couldn't even stand to fight against normal Vegeta. Not everyone is stronger in GT than they were in Z but it's stupid to think someone who couldn't even compare to a base form could even beat a character who could move so fast that he hit Omega with 6 punches and no one could tell.
Base vergta in super is stronger then ssj4 gogeta.
@@plantgang8738 No he's not. Bro seriously????? Man you're hilarious if you truly think that
I know it's not a canon way to measure power level, but the dramatic finishes in DBFZ heavily imply SSJ4 gogeta and gogeta blue to be on equal footing because their dramatic finishes go both ways.
Yeah I understand the games really don't mean anything in terms of the anime, but ssj4 isn't even canon in the first place so the fact that every non-canon game and depiction of it clearly portrays x100 big bang kamehameha as an immediate 1 shot is pretty telling. A non-canon character portrayed in non-canon games as having the single most powerful move in just about any depiction of dragonball outside of the anime has gotta tell you that SSJ4 is absolutely one of their favorites, and if beerus can be a moving goal post of power level, so can SSJ4 if they really wanted to.
Heck, LSSJ wasn't a canon form until recently and if you power scaled super Goku to Z broly it wouldn't even be close. But the second LSSJ becomes canon it's so far above super saiyan blue that even both blue vegeta and blue goku couldn't beat it separately, they HAD to fuse. So who's to say SSJ4 won't become canon, and if it does, it's obvious it would be scaled up much like LSSJ to match or even surpass super saiyan blue.
Really based point of view, I agree completely. The franchise itself feeds very blatantly the idea that SSJ4 is comparable to SSJB.
No you’re extremely justified in using the games as proof. GT itself is non canon so the whole “canon vs non canon” argument is already out the window
🤓☝️
Save the Gogeta 4 riders, Salad Saiyan…
Thank. You. People always try to underscale GT.
GT doesn't scale anywhere past universal
@@ashuraomega1000yes it does, GT is still weak as piss and overwanked though
@@ashuraomega1000 what are you talking about bro 😭🙏🏾💀
@@ashuraomega1000 bro don't watched the video
Gt is very weak brother, destroying the universe over time isn’t impressive that’s a buu saga feat give me cabba still
5:50 No the Energy they clash with has to travel at infinite speed if it is going to destroy multiple infinite realms
Nahhhhh
@@dkgaming2423 "Nah" what? Read the guidebooks
@@dkgaming2423 cope
Bulma's statement makes it not true for Super
Even then cooler is canon to gt and in cooler 2nd movie goku and him fight in immeasurable speeds
That lawbot hq toontown music brings me back holy shit ❤
An excellent video that gives both a fair shake. Refreshing to see a “Gogeta wins” take that isn’t just saying Cabba doesn’t scale to God level because reasons (usually bad ones).
My only issue/point of contention would be that Gogeta has infinite speed while Cabba doesn’t. I don’t see how the shockwaves reaching outside U7 to the Supreme Kai world isn’t infinite speed when flying from heaven to hell is. Gogeta would probably still be faster (how exactly one is faster when you’re both infinite speed I don’t know, but hey, Dragon Ball, don’t question it), I just can’t buy it being an infinite difference. Especially because those shockwaves would also have to be crossing heaven and hell to destroy the whole thing.
Would love to see your take on Super Goku vs GT Goku, preferably the manga for the former because the powerscaling there isn’t as wack, but I certainly wouldn’t complain if you went with anime.
When both are infinite speed and one us just faster it's not really just a DB, but Powerscaling in general. Tho it is based on a concept that some infinites can be bigger than others.
I definately agree with your critique with cabba not also being infiinite speed and to answer the infinity thing. Infinites can be bigger than another by theory, an example being that you add by +1 infinatly and as infinity does it goes on forever, now lets say you add by +2 infinatly, that means it goes on forever as well but the key difference being that adding by +2 will always be bigger than just by adding by +1. Now this theory is not exactly confirmed but assumed and it was created by a man named Georg Cantor in the 19th century i believe. So i hope this answers your question!
@@dogevillage7184 Infinities can come in different sizes, but not all of them are different sizes. Adding +2 infinitely is the same as adding +1 infinitely; they are both countably infinite. It's a misconception about the sizes of infinity.
Depends on where GT Goku is, past Omega or 100 years later.
Cabba aint even GT vegeta level, proven in xv2
I honestly don't think that Cabba can handle Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta.
Cabba aint even GT vegeta level, proven in xv2
Maybe Cabba can't... but Base Cabba makes Gogeta run to the hills.
@@bluetone-amv Daima will replace dbs yknow. no point in scaling Cabba once daima comes
@@solomonogbe-d9x no it wont
@@bluetone-amvDaima krillin >>> ss2 cabba
Few things
It's kinda weird to scale base RoF Goku above when Goku was raging out and shattering his limits against Beerus. That one punch took everything out of him and was really desperate. Maybe he got a big zenkai but if it covers the gap is hard to say
Super would also have infinite speed since the BoG feat is covering all the realms including the Kaioshin one-outside the macrocosm.
The Vegito upscaling is also much higher in GT. Baby's 2nd form has numerous statements of having the greatest Saiyan power in history, obviously including Z Vegito. Stack a SS3 like form, then oozaru, that's equal to SS4 Goku then stack training and amps and zenkais and limit breaks then he fuses with Vegeta.
Agreed. With the Vegito scaling alongside the Buu's and Uub, onecould argue Vegito was surpassed even before Super Baby 1 showed up. Depending on how you scale end of Z Goku and Uub.
An official guidebook directly compares ssj4's first appearance to buu Saga vegito, for every hyper wank you have we can antiscale to disprove it.
@xeratovildan9871 the problem with the guide book is that the page it's on is comparing Goku's forms throughout Z and Gt. It's not comparing the power between baby arc ss4 Goku nor Z Vegito. Even then the guide gives a very vague statement on who wins between Vegito and SS4. Context matters.
@@xeratovildan9871 And DBS has shown base fusions far outclass Super Saiyan God, let alone a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. Also source material> anyway. Buu was left in the dust early in GT's first arc, Vegito wasn't far behind.
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 Fusions grow with the characters since their multipliers are based on their individual power. Fusion can easily start weaker than the peak of a character's power before eventually growing stronger w/o any transformation amps.
All this power scaling and Goku STILL died to Sorbets laser in blue
Also the fact that Goku in Base in GT shook the Universe just by Powering Up.
I'm over here licking my fingers. It's nice watching an actual in depth explanation, using actual scaling, on why GT doesn't get soloed by some of the weakest Super characters lmao
It's smoke and mirrors
@@SuperKamiGuruu They're just using C4
Cabba is nowhere near weakest in super, the fact this guy uses base cabba from early in the series shows how cracked cabba is.
I don't think cabba at his best beats gogeta ssj4 but its clearly a close fight by top.
@resentfuldragon I didn't necessarily mean Cabba specifically, I moreso refer to people glazing Super so hard that if someone like Hercule manages to even punch Goku in ssj blue, people would probably believe he solos GT.
The worst scaling I’ve seen so far. Base Vegeta =\= base Cabba. He was just pulling numbers out of his rear and pure speculation
This really just proves that scaling is nonsense.
It´s all fiction, and characters ¨scale¨ for plot convivence. Future Gohan trained for years, he is older than main timeline Gohan, and trained way more and way harder, yet he was weaker than Yadrat Goku, who is hundreds of times weaker than main timeline Gohan. People who pretend they can come up with ¨objective answers¨ to hypothetical fights by clunching numbers are deluding themselves. Yes, it´s fun, but let´s not take it seriously. At the end of the day, these are drawings with text attached to them, the strongest one is the one the man drawing the pictures says is the strongest, and that´s it. And I guarantee you, neither Akira or Toyotaro ever made math calculations to find out who wins a fight.
Damn. You’re actually right.
I know this is a joke but maybe future gohan was weaker despite training because he didnt have enough food to eat lol.
that gohan lost everyone, didn't really have much food to eat and was training alone. He had no training partner and was basically getting it out the mud as a kid to adulthood. With no one to train with and no hyperbolic time chamber, he can't get as strong as a Gohan with his teachers and friends to train with would.
Am I the only one that thinks that the goku black arc should've happened after the t.o.p arc
I think so too since they would have used Vegito in the ToP
@@RyuN100 it would've been perfect if they did that
I can see where you're coming from
5:00 NO BRO WE ARE NOT MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS SCALE
Letting feelings cloud ur judgement😂
My friends, whoever says that cabba solos, he doesn't.
Ssj4=SSJGSSB. Aka super Saiyan blue. So, Cabba is cooked. Unless he gets zenkai hacks and transforms into ssj4.
Ummm if DBS Goku scales higher than Buu saga Goku then doesn’t that mean that base Cabba also has infinite speed because he scales higher than BOG Goku?
@@Techno_Ten all and any GT relevant character would do so also
Super just proves how weak U7 is. We learn in the Moro arc that kid buu had all of the God ki from the original supreme Ki. And since kid buu lost to "Goku", that means kid buu was actually pretty week. And since base vegeta was somehow struggling with base Cabba, then u7 is the weakest universe
@@DanielLopes-dh2hv isn't u7 the 2nd lowest mortal level? Maybe that applies to power as well.
@@michaeldoerrler2363no it only for how many mortals are even existing in the universe (not many in uni 7)
Bro didn't watch the show 💀🙏
The god ki thing its also overestimate for nothing
To be fair they were the second weakest only ahead of universe 9 who was out first.
𝙞𝙩'𝙨 𝙖 𝙢𝙚𝙢𝙚 𝙢𝙖𝙙𝙚 𝙗𝙮 𝙛𝙖𝙠𝙚 𝙛𝙖𝙣𝙗𝙤𝙞𝙨 𝙨𝙢𝙤𝙠𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙘𝙧𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙨 ... 𝙙𝙤𝙣'𝙩 𝙩𝙖𝙠𝙚 𝙞𝙩 𝙨𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙤𝙪𝙨𝙡𝙮
All this video resumes in one thing, "Beyond God State" was a form only used in FnoF movie, it was discarted in the moment we see Vegeta and Goku use regular SSJ. So Cabba scales in a BASE Vegeta, and that put him below SSJ from Buu saga but a lot stronger that Base Vegeta from that time (maybe around 10 or 20 times? It can't be that much since the training with Whiss was focused in the control of Divine Ki and with that transform to SSB, the base form was pretty much left behind mostly because of the state "Beyond God" being discarted in the next arc).
If A + B × 10.
Then it means cabba is cooked.
"Please Cabba I need this"
yeah the infinite speed feat scale you gave can be easily debunked, they never crossed an infinite distance
Ong, I was listening and I was like??? Infinite speed? That makes no sense lol
Bruh yall keep glazing Cabba 😭
This was extremely dishonest,”gogeta has infinite speed cus goku and pikkon crossed hell” what about bog goku and beerus ki that was going to instantly destroy all of the macrocosm ? And them scaling to their attacks speed being able to react to it ? Ur just dishonest doing this for views
That feat is literally only because Godku was clashing with an opponent equal/stronger than him,
What opponent in GT was equal to or stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta for him to clash against?
@@Where_da_cheese_atthis doesn’t disprove what he said, so what’s the point?
@@Where_da_cheese_atdoesn’t prove anything
That can be considered hax because of whis statment about 2 G.O.Ds facing each other
"Please cabba I NEEEEED THIIIIS!"
The Universe 6 Saiyans have absolutely no reason to be this strong... they just kinda are
It almost makes god KI look incredibly weak in comparison
Man people are doing GT vs Super in Sparking Zero. All i want to do is give Uub a story again. (Bro hasn't had one since Budokai 3 on the ps2)
90% makes sense. Vegeta was holding back in the cabba fight though
Ah yes, the "I don't like this so I'm going to fanon and say he was holding back even though it's directly stated and shown to be equal!"
@@xeratovildan9871 he literally tanked SSJ Cabba attack
@@schemar17 Vegeta also word for word said Cabba's base was equal to his
@@hyperboiie2968 that's irrelevant when their SSJs aren't matched
@@schemar17 maybe because he just got the form and Vegeta has improved his ssj from the Cell saga and onwards.
How tf do you equate being able to destroy a multiverse with an explicit attack to being able to destroy a multiverse just by clashing fists lmaoooooo
Cause said "explicit attack" wasnt even gonna destroy the universe at once with a single attack. If you actually watch gt,omega wasn't even gonna do that in one attack. The negative energy was gonna take over one planet, then spread from planet to planet til it eventually envelops the universe. We don't know definitively how long it would take for that to happen but omega can't be universal-multiversal if he's affecting the universe for a pronged period of time. That's like when people say kid Buu is universal cause the universe will eventually be done for if they let kid buu loose. Literally in the anime he goes from planet to planet destroying them not in one attack.
@@DivineZenkai then they’re not even remotely similar feats in terms of strength? My apologies, in the video he classes both ssjg Goku and Omega Shenron as multiversal, so I thought he was saying they were equal. Now I understand that he meant there us a massive power gap but they where still able to destroy a multiverse, given time
@@DivineZenkai Youre confused on how it scales, when youre affecting an infinite space or several instances of infinities it is irrelevant on how you do it. Because infinites are, well infinite.
While the manga isn't used in this video, it confirms that Beerus controlling the shockwave to even out the clash between him and Goku is what saved U7. They were very much capable of doing that the entire fight, it was Beerus stopping it with his ki control
@@rytyrocks518 It's not irrelevant in this circumstance, because we're talking about power output which is something that is dependent on the amount of time it takes to exert that power. Destroying an infinite universe almost instantly is going to output more power than destroying an infinite universe over time.
"Pls cabba i need this"
PLEASE CABBA I NEED THIS!! 🗣🔥
The whole issue of base Goku with the power of SSJGod seems silly to me at this point. Clearly that was discarded since the Champa saga when Toei and Toriyama realized that if Goku did not transform back into the SSJ and SSJGod versions they would lose money on figures and toys. If Super Base Goku/Vegeta really was equal to or stronger than SSJGod, how could SSJ Vegeta not be able to lift Magetta who weighs 1000 Tons? Not only that, Future Trunks fought an SSJ2 Goku. That also puts him at the level of a God when a year ago he barely managed to defeat Dabura?😂
Just means Trunks got stronger. Also basing this off the Dragon Ball Timeline on the wiki but Trunks vs Dabura apparently happens a few years before he goes back to the past, not one. It's still stupid obviously but he has to that strong even if you think it's ass writing (I do think so).
As for Vegeta not being able to lift Magetta, it is very strange. Dragon ball has always had some strange lifting strength antifeats, like GT Goku being shown struggling to lift up a building and going SSJ4 to do it, or Pan struggling to carry just a few people or even Goku thinking he needs to go super saiyan to lift 40 tons total in the buu saga. It's very silly considering Roshi literally blows up the moon in the 2nd arc of the series but what can we do. SSJ Vegeta not being able to lift a 1,000 ton Magetta is also manga only (in which Goku isn't shown absorbing god unlike the anime) so it wouldn't necessarily apply to the anime scaling regardless.
Justamente, parece qué está gente no sabe que es un concepto descartado xd
Cómo Kiabe va a estar por encima de Vegito? Jajaja
What you said does not make sense,so how how did vageta casually kicked magenta off the stage,it's 2024 guys,do people still use that example.
Dragon Ball Super manga ep 11. Vegeta in SSJ tries to lift Magetta with all his effort and can't. Beerus then reproaches Vegeta that Mageta weighs 1000 tons and he couldn't lift it. Now I repeat. Really, someone who is supposedly 50 times stronger than ssjGod can't lift 1000 tons?
@@HugoxMaximus-uq7dl so you are still using that madness , battle memes by omari 🙄
If you all truly believe vegeta was using his full power in base against cabba is crazy he never took the fight seriously what so ever period 🤦🏾
It’s verbatim stated by vegeta (in his thoughts not to cabba) that they were equal.
That is not in character for vegeta to admit IN HIS OWN THOUGHTS.
If he said it out loud then there’s an argument to help motivate cabba, but him saying it in his thoughts is different
Facts. Cabba is not touching Gogeta. Get him past Choatzu
I'm with the opinion that in some dragon ball fights you have to turn off ur brain and simply enjoy a fight as scaling and statements can be very very inconsistent. Still gotta say that the GT Gogeta vs Base Cabba meme is hilarious, the back and forth on who would ironically win is crazy.
SSJ4 Gogeta in blood and sweat: ''HE'S IN BASE FORM! WTF IS HAPPENING????''
Base Cabba: ''I never disappoint my master.''
I dont really understand this, wdym? Super does not Follow Z? and why cant i use Z to scale Super since Kai is something made for the 20th Anniversary of DB and all Kai does is cut the Fillers and Akira stated himself that Fillers are canon. SO this part was just weird.
Even if we decided to follow your logic, Cabba is at least 5D, since he is stronger than SSG Goku that is able to destroy the entire macrocosm. which was stated in a guide to Transcend the living universe.
``a dimensionally transcendental heavenly country``.
so i would say Cabba wins
Super takes place in the 10 year timeskip between defeat of kid buu and the end of Z, GT takes places 5 YEARS after
Which makes no fucking sense since in the end of Z saga there waa no mention of anything that happened in super or anything related to super
@@JackoJaxko That doesnt really prove anything. Super is connected to Z, there is nothing that disproves this or maybe there is, because apparently You cant scale super using Z but i guess using Kai that is fine.
@@onyx6774 then tell me how would super fit in with end of z if pan is 3 years old in the original yet in superhero pan IS 3 yet superhero takes place 1 year before end of Z, Super has to be a different continuity from the original otherwise it makes no fucking sense
@@JackoJaxkoAt the end of Z she is 4 btw. Also she is older, but GT treats Bra as older.
My problem is that apparently its Okay to scale Gt using DBZ but not Super.
Super takes place between the gap of Majin Buu and end of Z.
this was explained a lot of times and confirmed to be the case. It doesnt matter if you like it or not.
Akira said this to be the case and even toei themselfs, their words matter more than yours.
GT wasnt planned. DBZ ends with Z because akira wanted that to be the end of the series.
so using this Logic Gt shouldnt scale with DBZ either.
I can believe this is an actual conversation that has to be had, it’s literally so obvious 😢
9:12 that description felt a bit more personal than it should have been
Fun fact: the super exciting-guide on page 59 states that otherworld has no concept of time.
Saiyan saga goku was moving through this realm from king kai's planet back to enma's check-in station.
Saiyan saga goku can move in places where time does not exist.
Cabba and Gogeta 4 have this feat and scale above him.
Both of them have immeasurable speed.
I think that just means time as in days, years, aging, etc.
"Base Cabba solos all of Z!"
"SS4 Gogeta will just wreck him with a finger!"
_Fools....._
"What did you say??"
Base Tarble: _"Weaklings, the both of them"_
You got me in the first half I'm not gonna lie
I watched the video. The scaling was just wrong, like bro used Goku and pikkon travelling from heaven to hell as an argument for giving Gogeta ssj4 (GT) infinite speed but at the same time said that bog Goku was a couple octillion times the speed of light for his attacks effecting the entire universe really quickly? Like heaven and hell are in the universe, bog Goku should also have infinite speed.
Though he was right in the part that base cabba was wayyyyyyyy more powerful than Gogeta but just not skilled in comparison to him.
Yeah, this is a miss from salad. Great what ifs but power scaling isn't his thing.
We'll finish this debate in sparking zero 😂
Me, waiting for a two part video where GT Goku and Super Goku each run gauntlets in the other's series, using each just shortly after they achieved their first new form (SSJ4 and SSJG)
Would either make it all the way through? Could you see any type of catalist that leads to either reaching a new level?
The whole line of him absorbing the power i feel is a bit convoluted, do you think caba would fair in a fight with berus on the same kinda fight him and goku had?
The universe in dragon ball super has been shown to just be a distance thing so it's not multiversal
8:16 shouldn't cabba be infinite speed/ inaccessible speed since he scales to base Goku who was able to move in a place with no space or time, plus the supressed beerus who is equal to ssg goku nullified an attack which was going to erase the universe giving him infinite speed of the bat
I don't see how moving in a place with no space or time would mean he's infinite when moving in distance could still be scaled regardless of space or time existing
@@streetgamer3452 nope, in a place with no time or space or world at all no timeline not universe no distance no time you shouldn't be able to move at all so since they were clearly moving in it, it makes them beyond space - time and they would need inaccessible speeds and above to achieve that movement in a such a place
@@superrobo that makes absolutely no sense. What says you can't move in something with no space or time? Also, There IS distance. It's how far they move. You can never achieve infinite speed. The moment you stop is the moment you created an end point and thus have stopped moving in infinity. Infinity is something without a beginning and endpoint, unless they never stop moving for infinity, Goku will always end up moving a certain distance, not infinite distance. This entire "feat" is easily one of the dumbest DB has ever created because it acts like infinity can be measured but it cannot. What can be is distance and him moving even without space or time creates distance that can be measured by someone.
@streetgamer3452 technically, the most important part is the "no time" part, as speed is distance/time. However, distance still would not exist because it's the space between no points, and since there's no space, there's no distance.
@@SnailSnail-lo4pm except distance would exist. The first point is where Goku started. The end point is where he stopped. Distance exist even without any space to be on
You misinterpreted Omega Shenron being able to "destroy the universe". Omega Shenron's dark energy was only going to "corrode" the universe with its special properties which would have eventually destroyed it if kept unchecked but it's not a raw feat and doesn't prove anything when it comes to his physical power. If that was the case then SSJ4 Gogeta who was MASSIVELY stronger than Omega would have done the exact same thing but to a much larger scale, but he couldn't. Negative energy is just a naturally corrosive type of Ki which is why it destroys everything around it, that's also why the Negative Karma Ball threatened to destroy the mortal realm, because it's powered by negative energy. Omega himself does not actually scale to the negative energy that he exerts from his body and Ki and cannot actually destroy the entire macrocosm near instantaneously like Goku in BOG almost did
@@RetroMagnus761 Goku destroying that Sugoroku Space dimension by using a kamehameha, and threatening to destroy he|| by powering up all while in base is impressive though
@@just_an_internet_explorer8038 The Suguroku Space and the realm that holds it are specifically stated to transcend the platonic concepts of space and time so even at a lowball the realm should be outerversal. The problem is GT Goku never actually scales to the dimension itself. It was already collapsing prior to him supposedly "destroying" it and even that isn't concrete since it was never actually shown that Goku destroyed the Suguroku Space, only that he was able to escape from it.
Corrosive ki by nature. Just like Beerus destructive ki, and Gogeta's positive ki. Does that ki have it's own powerlevel as well, or do we just count it as a tool? But then, what we do with Goku's ki in BOG, is it godly ki now, or just generelly on that level? And what does it say about Gogeta's powerlevel since even "special" ki has no effect on him.
@@RetroMagnus761 that still is putting out enough energy to destroy the universe
cabba solos neg diff
You can also say instead making a 10 min explanation of who wins. This is the easier explanation and less complicated and confusing.
So, In Dragon ball superheroes ssj4 goku went against ui goku. ssj4 goku was about to win but he lost.
We all know that ui goku so much more stronger than ssj4.
So ssj4 goku can beat cabba .
So why even compare because you are just adding on more power by fusing with vegeta.
Yall still have the guts to compare.
7:12 the problem with black smoke shenron is they dont say how long it would take him to destroy the universe or exactly how he would do it. We see from omega shenrons actual plan is to lead the universe into "ruin" or a state of rot and decay that would eventually cause everything in the universe to die. Thats technically not even a universal AP level attack because hes not actually destroying the universe, just causing it to decay at a heightened rate. If he could just destroy rhe universe, why bother rotting it away overtime. That seems like a waste of time if anything. Even though GT is supposed to be a continuation of the z anime, its scaling is far worse. Even in the GT perfect files(guide books published by shueisha), ssj 4 gogeta is only considereds to be tens or dozens of times stronger than ssj 4 goku. This proves the metamormin fusion dance was weaker in GT than it was in any other appearance.
You're rellying too much on Z established concepts and not looking at GT itself.
Also the kid buu feat isnt comparable to god. Goku was gonna destroy the entire universe 7 macrocosm. Kid buus power only extends from the living universe to the kai realm, not the other seperate dimensions. They only get to god levels with super vegito and buuhan where their attacks are actually threatening to destroy and shaking apart the entire macrocosm.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this all started because of a throw away line Vegeta said and a beam clash? Sorry, but if that's true, I don't believe for a second Cabba could solo DBZ let alone SS4 Gogeta. There is such little evidence that Cabba possesses such power, making this theory questionable at best.
I don't agree with much of what is in this video, but Vegeta in Res-F one shot someone who was outright stated to be as strong as Mystic Gohan was in Buu Saga, and he did this in base, so at min Cabba > All of Z, as for GT SSjB > SSj4 Full Power, and this was Res-F SSjB, so U6/TOP era SSjB is going to be MUCH stronger, meaning SSj Cabba is likely greater then Gogeta SSj4, and SSj2 Cabba is probably overkill. (In this SSj Cabba would be stronger then Res-F Blue, and SSj2 Cabba is prob just a bit weaker then TOP Blue). End of TOP Goku/Vegeta would solo all of GT without much if any hassle just using SSjB, they wouldn't even need UI/UE.
@@Vintagesonic1 If this is your thought process then your reading comprehension is sad. Super scales above DBZ point blank period, your head canon is awful.