as a likely IEI (I have lingering doubts about my type, which I hear is typical for Ni-bases) myself I agree with everything you pointed out, even the negative Te stuff. I would clarify that an IEI's Te weakness is going to be more tied to the the Si flavored Te though, so in my case, what annoys me is anything to do with that stuff that is physical and technical in the day to day sense. I would never want to do work in construction or build or fix things-- I avoid these jobs like the plague. Even setting up simple IKEA desks is extremely irritating to me, but i make myself go through it because I have this internal vision of how I want something to turn out and sometimes these things, *unfortunately* require some degree of tangible technical skill to bring to reality. Another example is me being a music artist. I am very lazy when it comes to creating music because I'll have the greatest music concept in my head but unfortunately, music also requires a lot of Si and Te when it comes to the engineering aspect like learning controls, audio levels, mixing and mastering. It's like a thorn in my side that I wish could be fixed with a magic wand, and I have no patience to exactly sit and learn this stuff even though it would be so beneficial to my Ni/Fe vision of making great music that will entertain the masses. Leave it up to me, I'd want to implant some sort of chip in my brain that directly transfers the music from my thoughts to the computer completely hands off. I would say that the data/trends aspect of Te is more related to Te/Ni than it is to Te/Si and that stuff is actually *relatively* more digestible for an IEI than it would be for an SEI for example (being that Socionics is all about blockings and Te/Si is the super-ego block for an IEI, not Te/Ni). My wife is an SEI, and I think I would be relatively more accepting of trending data (not that I am data oriented by any means) being pointed out to me than she would be, being that she has absolutely no interest in these things being that she is primarily concerned with what's in front of her being that she is grounded in the Si combined with the Fe of enjoyment of the moment, completely disregarding big picture things and finding them uninteresting and foreign. In the same token, she is much more willing to be hands on in the physical realm than I am. Lastly, I would say that it's a myth in my opinion that the MBTI INFJ = Socionics IEI, it is my belief that the INFP is a hybrid of an EII and IEI, and same with the INFJ, which is why some INFPs like myself are IEIs and others EIIs. I lowkey believe that INFJ fit better with INFj and that INFP fits better with INFp overall, but this is only a holistic/intuitive belief that I haven't quite distilled into a clarity logical sense that I can explain just yet (there goes the terrible explanation trait of INFps you described in this video lol.)
I completely relate to not liking the physical application of logic (woodworking, construction, building things, repairing things). I had to take an electrical engineering class for my computer science degree, and the entire class was soldering circuit boards. It was my version of hell.
Oh I just read your comment. I felt like him saying IEI are INFJ didn't feel 100% accurate because I'm definitely an INFP, but have typed as IEI consistently, but also Type 5 enneagram lmao. Are you a type 5w4 or 4w5 by chance?
@@PracticalSocionics I don't think so great relationships can be established between these two types , i have an LEI friend who calls me stupid ofc but we bond over Ni and he notices how talented we are in relationship areas that (Ni-Fi-Fe combo is a killer in understanding people) so he always asks for my advice in that regard .
@@PracticalSocionics btw i always tought im smart but retarted at the same time in the sense that most people can do something easily that i can't access , and the Te polr explained my whole life struggles ...
Typed as IEI consistently, but also as INFP MBTI consistently. Confusing lol. Also Type 5w4 Enneagram. I definitely relate to pretty much everything you just said. Ive never once typed as INFJ on any MBTI test though...which is strange because arent INFJ mostly Type 5 enneagram? What a dichotomy.
We struggle to remember details, it’s as simple as that. From my point of view I can only reliably access knowledge that is physically observable and able to be understood in the moment (Se/Ti) or my holistic abstract big picture that I have built up and logically critiqued over time (Ni/Ti). A lot of stuff I think I know I cannot remember how I know it, and I have to rethink through problems often in my life due to weak Si recall. I don’t think what you’re speaking of is a Te issue for IEIs, it’s Si. I can retrace a lot of what I think with studies and credentialed peoples work to back it up, but it’s the memory of that whole databank intertwined with the chronological chain of events that got me to this exact spot of what i think and why, it’s really hard to convey that in a concise way, which is why you’re exactly right when you say we’re bad at explaining in the moment and better at writing because we have more time to filter and structure thoughts. I consider myself a deep thinker(y axis), not a fast thinker (x axis). So why don’t we do that so we’re better prepared for “debate” like a certain IEI Jordan Peterson you could ask? Energy my friend, energy. It takes a lot of work to structure it into something others can understand even remotely to what I do, and even then it’s probably not going to be possible because most people aren’t going to have the robust intuition that I have to be able to see the patterns. It’s hard being dominant Ni, the function most rare in #1/2 and least understood by the masses (maybe for that reason), I think you underestimate IEIs but that’s probably because of your own biases/experiences with immature IEIs. I’ll end with this, you can only think on what you perceive, and Ni #1 sees a whole lot. You’d be wise to listen to it, even if it requires some pressure to give birth to those excruciating Si/Te boring ass details.
I disagree with your assertion of Si having to do with recall. That’s not how we view Si in Socionics. The Te Polr issue has to do with pragmatic thinking and ensuring of facts or supporting data to substantiate to their arguments. IEI types are notorious for a lack of pragmatic thinking. Often this is simply due to the IEI choosing to ignore Te as a boring and irrelevant element. Many of the slow paced speaking can often be seen in either Ni dominant type or even in types strong in Ni like an EII for example. I’d say that it has more to do with the low Se. The occasional nonsensical speech can be due to the lack of Te, use of Ni or just the combination of both. I would disagree with the typing of Jordan Peterson as an IEI. Lastly, the biggest issue I have with IEI types coming out of MBTi or Jungian circles, is the implication that Ni has an almost “magical” quality that makes it more special than the other elements. This leads to over glamorized view of the IEI as somehow semi-divine. This leads to everyone claiming to be an IEI and an unwarranted overindulgence of the type.
@@theultimatedisciple7974 Yep, IEIs tend to lack self-awareness in the moment. It seems as if they have no interest in learning how to take their audience into consideration before saying what they want to say. It’s much more preferable to assume everyone else is vapid and unintuitive so as to deny any responsibility regarding how to convey your own message. OP: If you cannot understand how your own leading intuition is working, you have no business thinking you know what’s going on with anyone else or what their capabilities are. By the way, you can perceive a whole lot and then confabulate for the things you inevitably miss. Reality-testing is advisable before claiming to be wise. You might come to find claiming so isn’t. Experiences will give you the most information to “think on” but applying discernment to any information you wish to speak to will help prevent making an ass of yourself. Here is an example of utilizing discernment before trying to make a point: “Is it incredibly hubristic to base my argument on my target audience only having exposure to less mature types such as myself when I know nothing of their history? If I self-aggrandize and express my ramblings with an air of superiority, how well will my ideas land? Am I actually as profound as I believe myself to be? Do I actually know what the fuck I am talking about?” These considerations could all be very helpful to you. Cheers.
Hey man you are putting out great content. It is easy to follow, insightful, and relatable. I have been typed many times by a number of socionists and it is always split between IEI and EIE. I related to what you said about the difficulties around explaining things. It trips me up consistently and because I am aware of it and forcing myself to work at it, maybe in my case it frustrates me more than others. It is the main complaint I get and it really burns people out of my ideas, which is disappointing. Jay
Both can have issues so it has to be a case by case basis. Both can be reserved and quiet. The IEI has bit better potential to be more expressive and talk more. They often want to their ideas to be heard and shared. The EII tends to care more about their personal one on one sort relationships. But there are no absolutes .
I typed iei now previosuly eie ni subtype but this makes so much sense for me its like things was less confusing and more of my calling after i considered this type!
@@PracticalSocionics I'm introverted around others I have apear more out going because of a subject rather than people I can emote and do the fe things when I have company or from a friend I can be somewhat slacking due to being very space oriented but I'm conscious of time I'd say when something important happens at the last moment if been told I was polite gentle I'm in my early twenties it kind takes brute force to get in the moment and it's really try hard and I have a uncle who I believe is an eie he's kind of prideful nice and I'd say he's group focused and cult leader like he's what I admired to be but I was sloppy at that I'm pretty slow and refined and chill with speech I can analyze systems and people imo I have a elegant appearance to I try to accomplish and I'm very discreet and one to one relationship wise and I have a close knit of like minded individuals as well oh I'm spiritual I believe there's a higher power God.
I don’t understand. I’m an INFP in MBTI but IEI in socionics, but the latter has functions similar to that of INFJ in MBTI? Can anyone explain please :))
That’s my experience of male IEIs. They have a really hard time with present moment self awareness. This can cause them to be really inconsistent with what they are saying. Naturally clarification is needed but if you try to address the contradictions to find out what they actually mean, they can feel attacked. It’s bewildering until I realize sometimes they’re not interested in having a conversation. What they’re after is a mute audience with the expectation for you to silently respect their discombobulated musings, but never think to let you know it. The problem is they don’t know it themselves and definitely will not consider themselves to be acting this way, even when they cannot give any other explanation if you explore it Socratically with them. It’s kind of pitiful. I’m an EII, for the record.
"And then we have... .... ...the PoLR Function. Te." I can just see the 😮💨. XD
as a likely IEI (I have lingering doubts about my type, which I hear is typical for Ni-bases) myself I agree with everything you pointed out, even the negative Te stuff.
I would clarify that an IEI's Te weakness is going to be more tied to the the Si flavored Te though, so in my case, what annoys me is anything to do with that stuff that is physical and technical in the day to day sense. I would never want to do work in construction or build or fix things-- I avoid these jobs like the plague. Even setting up simple IKEA desks is extremely irritating to me, but i make myself go through it because I have this internal vision of how I want something to turn out and sometimes these things, *unfortunately* require some degree of tangible technical skill to bring to reality.
Another example is me being a music artist. I am very lazy when it comes to creating music because I'll have the greatest music concept in my head but unfortunately, music also requires a lot of Si and Te when it comes to the engineering aspect like learning controls, audio levels, mixing and mastering. It's like a thorn in my side that I wish could be fixed with a magic wand, and I have no patience to exactly sit and learn this stuff even though it would be so beneficial to my Ni/Fe vision of making great music that will entertain the masses. Leave it up to me, I'd want to implant some sort of chip in my brain that directly transfers the music from my thoughts to the computer completely hands off.
I would say that the data/trends aspect of Te is more related to Te/Ni than it is to Te/Si and that stuff is actually *relatively* more digestible for an IEI than it would be for an SEI for example (being that Socionics is all about blockings and Te/Si is the super-ego block for an IEI, not Te/Ni). My wife is an SEI, and I think I would be relatively more accepting of trending data (not that I am data oriented by any means) being pointed out to me than she would be, being that she has absolutely no interest in these things being that she is primarily concerned with what's in front of her being that she is grounded in the Si combined with the Fe of enjoyment of the moment, completely disregarding big picture things and finding them uninteresting and foreign. In the same token, she is much more willing to be hands on in the physical realm than I am.
Lastly, I would say that it's a myth in my opinion that the MBTI INFJ = Socionics IEI, it is my belief that the INFP is a hybrid of an EII and IEI, and same with the INFJ, which is why some INFPs like myself are IEIs and others EIIs. I lowkey believe that INFJ fit better with INFj and that INFP fits better with INFp overall, but this is only a holistic/intuitive belief that I haven't quite distilled into a clarity logical sense that I can explain just yet (there goes the terrible explanation trait of INFps you described in this video lol.)
I completely relate to not liking the physical application of logic (woodworking, construction, building things, repairing things). I had to take an electrical engineering class for my computer science degree, and the entire class was soldering circuit boards. It was my version of hell.
@@Wes-Tyler 😂
That wasn't a terrible explanation at all!
You're Sei
Oh I just read your comment. I felt like him saying IEI are INFJ didn't feel 100% accurate because I'm definitely an INFP, but have typed as IEI consistently, but also Type 5 enneagram lmao. Are you a type 5w4 or 4w5 by chance?
14:12
“I find IEI types very annoying”
Oh, really? let's pretend I didn't notice this during the entire video 😃
Inter-type relations….LIE types usually struggle with IEI.
@@PracticalSocionics I don't think so great relationships can be established between these two types , i have an LEI friend who calls me stupid ofc but we bond over Ni and he notices how talented we are in relationship areas that (Ni-Fi-Fe combo is a killer in understanding people) so he always asks for my advice in that regard .
@@bourasayyoub2580 It’s abit of a struggle
@@PracticalSocionics btw i always tought im smart but retarted at the same time in the sense that most people can do something easily that i can't access , and the Te polr explained my whole life struggles ...
Typed as IEI consistently, but also as INFP MBTI consistently. Confusing lol. Also Type 5w4 Enneagram.
I definitely relate to pretty much everything you just said.
Ive never once typed as INFJ on any MBTI test though...which is strange because arent INFJ mostly Type 5 enneagram?
What a dichotomy.
We struggle to remember details, it’s as simple as that. From my point of view I can only reliably access knowledge that is physically observable and able to be understood in the moment (Se/Ti) or my holistic abstract big picture that I have built up and logically critiqued over time (Ni/Ti). A lot of stuff I think I know I cannot remember how I know it, and I have to rethink through problems often in my life due to weak Si recall. I don’t think what you’re speaking of is a Te issue for IEIs, it’s Si. I can retrace a lot of what I think with studies and credentialed peoples work to back it up, but it’s the memory of that whole databank intertwined with the chronological chain of events that got me to this exact spot of what i think and why, it’s really hard to convey that in a concise way, which is why you’re exactly right when you say we’re bad at explaining in the moment and better at writing because we have more time to filter and structure thoughts. I consider myself a deep thinker(y axis), not a fast thinker (x axis). So why don’t we do that so we’re better prepared for “debate” like a certain IEI Jordan Peterson you could ask? Energy my friend, energy. It takes a lot of work to structure it into something others can understand even remotely to what I do, and even then it’s probably not going to be possible because most people aren’t going to have the robust intuition that I have to be able to see the patterns. It’s hard being dominant Ni, the function most rare in #1/2 and least understood by the masses (maybe for that reason), I think you underestimate IEIs but that’s probably because of your own biases/experiences with immature IEIs. I’ll end with this, you can only think on what you perceive, and Ni #1 sees a whole lot. You’d be wise to listen to it, even if it requires some pressure to give birth to those excruciating Si/Te boring ass details.
I disagree with your assertion of Si having to do with recall. That’s not how we view Si in Socionics. The Te Polr issue has to do with pragmatic thinking and ensuring of facts or supporting data to substantiate to their arguments. IEI types are notorious for a lack of pragmatic thinking. Often this is simply due to the IEI choosing to ignore Te as a boring and irrelevant element.
Many of the slow paced speaking can often be seen in either Ni dominant type or even in types strong in Ni like an EII for example. I’d say that it has more to do with the low Se. The occasional nonsensical speech can be due to the lack of Te, use of Ni or just the combination of both.
I would disagree with the typing of Jordan Peterson as an IEI.
Lastly, the biggest issue I have with IEI types coming out of MBTi or Jungian circles, is the implication that Ni has an almost “magical” quality that makes it more special than the other elements. This leads to over glamorized view of the IEI as somehow semi-divine. This leads to everyone claiming to be an IEI and an unwarranted overindulgence of the type.
@@theultimatedisciple7974 Yep, IEIs tend to lack self-awareness in the moment. It seems as if they have no interest in learning how to take their audience into consideration before saying what they want to say. It’s much more preferable to assume everyone else is vapid and unintuitive so as to deny any responsibility regarding how to convey your own message.
OP: If you cannot understand how your own leading intuition is working, you have no business thinking you know what’s going on with anyone else or what their capabilities are. By the way, you can perceive a whole lot and then confabulate for the things you inevitably miss. Reality-testing is advisable before claiming to be wise. You might come to find claiming so isn’t. Experiences will give you the most information to “think on” but applying discernment to any information you wish to speak to will help prevent making an ass of yourself. Here is an example of utilizing discernment before trying to make a point: “Is it incredibly hubristic to base my argument on my target audience only having exposure to less mature types such as myself when I know nothing of their history? If I self-aggrandize and express my ramblings with an air of superiority, how well will my ideas land? Am I actually as profound as I believe myself to be? Do I actually know what the fuck I am talking about?” These considerations could all be very helpful to you. Cheers.
Hey man you are putting out great content. It is easy to follow, insightful, and relatable.
I have been typed many times by a number of socionists and it is always split between IEI and EIE. I related to what you said about the difficulties around explaining things. It trips me up consistently and because I am aware of it and forcing myself to work at it, maybe in my case it frustrates me more than others. It is the main complaint I get and it really burns people out of my ideas, which is disappointing.
Jay
Finding understanding between types is a step in the right direction.
Yaaaaaaaaas! Need I say more?
Say more
IEIs are the codependants
Do you think that EII would express themselves better or they have the same problem?
Both can have issues so it has to be a case by case basis. Both can be reserved and quiet. The IEI has bit better potential to be more expressive and talk more. They often want to their ideas to be heard and shared. The EII tends to care more about their personal one on one sort relationships.
But there are no absolutes .
IEI are known to have a more philosophical and academic leaning. They also can be more fiesty and assertive when compared to EII.
Do you think Marx is an IEI?
I think he’s very likely to be one.
@@PracticalSocionics I could tell you were alluding to him throughout the video lol
@12:00 I find myself saying "It's hard to explain.".
I typed iei now previosuly eie ni subtype but this makes so much sense for me its like things was less confusing and more of my calling after i considered this type!
Because of what?
@@PracticalSocionics I'm introverted around others I have apear more out going because of a subject rather than people I can emote and do the fe things when I have company or from a friend I can be somewhat slacking due to being very space oriented but I'm conscious of time I'd say when something important happens at the last moment if been told I was polite gentle I'm in my early twenties it kind takes brute force to get in the moment and it's really try hard and I have a uncle who I believe is an eie he's kind of prideful nice and I'd say he's group focused and cult leader like he's what I admired to be but I was sloppy at that I'm pretty slow and refined and chill with speech I can analyze systems and people imo I have a elegant appearance to I try to accomplish and I'm very discreet and one to one relationship wise and I have a close knit of like minded individuals as well oh I'm spiritual I believe there's a higher power God.
@@PracticalSocionicsI was edgy I put off the Infj cause I thought there submissive but times has changed. Eie were very bold which didn't fit me!
@@PracticalSocionics I'm also motivated alot by dissatisfaction and what could be better in there world like people cultures the big picture sort of
14:14 well noted
It's because they can get in your head 😊 you don't like them
@@Andrew-qc8jh That hits my soul.🙄
@@PracticalSocionics you don't have a soul fool your an LIE
Great explanation
XD well said J.
I don’t understand. I’m an INFP in MBTI but IEI in socionics, but the latter has functions similar to that of INFJ in MBTI? Can anyone explain please :))
You are correct. I have another video that discusses those two types.
same
That’s my experience of male IEIs. They have a really hard time with present moment self awareness. This can cause them to be really inconsistent with what they are saying. Naturally clarification is needed but if you try to address the contradictions to find out what they actually mean, they can feel attacked. It’s bewildering until I realize sometimes they’re not interested in having a conversation. What they’re after is a mute audience with the expectation for you to silently respect their discombobulated musings, but never think to let you know it. The problem is they don’t know it themselves and definitely will not consider themselves to be acting this way, even when they cannot give any other explanation if you explore it Socratically with them. It’s kind of pitiful. I’m an EII, for the record.
That's me
Obviously you don't know much about them ...
It's harsh, but it has validity. The stuff he's saying isn't wrong for the average IEI.
I’ll go ahead and finish that for you- …but I’m not willing to give a compelling argument to convince anybody why I’m right and you’re wrong.
Was thinking the same 😂 @@alisonfisher1877