Vintage Klipschorn Review
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- My review of the iconic Klipschorn after listening to it all week. This is a set from 1982 that I purchased some time ago. A previous owner applied some Crites upgrades with new tweeters and caps to the crossover.
Part I is my regular review comparing them head to head with the New Large Advent in the Bullnose cabinet. The gear I am currently using are as follows:
McIntosh MC2105 amplifier
Pioneer Elite C-90 preamp
Pioneer Elite DV-46AV CD player
Mitsubishi LT-30 turntable
Part 2 will be relatively the same, however, I am going to swap in some tube amplification to the Klipschorns to see if I can hear any significant performance difference.
I am a long time collector of vintage stereo gear like receivers, speakers, amps, turntables and cassette decks from brands like McIntosh, Sansui, Pioneer, Yamaha, Klipsch, JBL, Marantz and many others. Be sure to subscribe so as not to miss future videos.
Video Link: • Vintage Klipschorn Review
Email: stereoniche@gmail.com
Channel: / @stereoniche
#bestvintageaudio #vintageaudio #classicrock #records #vintagecassette #audiogear #cassette #audiocollections #audiophile #stereo #klipschorn #klipsch #vintagespeakers #vintagestereoequipment #vintagestereo
I've owned a pair of Klipschorns for over 42 years now and they would be probably the last things that I own that I would part with. Nothing else can touch them for realism. Their sound can touch you on an emotional level .
So happy to see a new review on the Klipschorn! I've always been surprised at just how little attention they get on UA-cam. I heard them first as a teenager and knew that I would one day have a pair. Now I have the Klipschorn, La Scalas and Heresy. I agree with your comments of sounding "big". Nothing like it!
the first time I heard a set a properly placed set of LaScalas. I was floored. I own a pair of matching Khorns now....
Which di you prefer gents? La scala or khorn?
@@ZagatoianNow that’s a really tuff call as both are just amazing speakers.
The K-horns definitely hit you in the chest as far as room pressure and distortion free unbelievable vibes you hear and feel from these speakers. If you have a room and corners for them the K-horns they will rock your world but if your room isn’t with appropriate corners you won’t go wrong with the La scala’s for sure!
@@Zagatoian Sadly, the La Scala is short on bass response, the K'horn is the KING of low end in the Heritage series.
My room is 12' × 15' dedicated to listening. Will K Horns work or is room too small? 300b set amp and very well treated walls.
Will this work?
I have only heard Klipschorns once in my life. It was in a show room in 1984 and they were the best speakers I had ever heard. I couldn't afford them but my wife said I could buy some DCM Time Windows for 900 bucks. Huge money for me back then. I owned them for 34 years, so I got my moneys worth. I love Klipsch speakers. I have three pairs and a center channel.
I got my TimeWindows at St.Vinney's. Like new, sound great...for $25.
I first heard a set of Klipschorn in the middle 70's. I would be so bold as to say that I've never heard a better speaker - and yes - I've heard other sets, I think up to 2018 models.
I wish I had a set, I'd never leave the house.
They sound more like live instruments than anything.
@@scottlowell493 not just live instruments, but live voices live soundstage something many speakers just aren’t capable of producing!
Have original Vintage Klischorn drivers with ALK crossovers and Heresy IV center channel. Very happy with them!
You mentioned it right, every time you hear the music through Klipschorn, you'd tap your toe,sing the song because the emotion of the artist is clearly heard and felt. This the the closest thing next to the live performance and concert. I bought a well maintained Klipschorn ten years ago on ebay which was manufactured in 1981 and got it shipped to Melbourne Australia. It still working perfectly fine till today driven by my 2.5 watts Sun audio SV-2A3 single ended amplifier. The efficiency of the speaker is superb at 105db at 1 watt at 1 metre which means that my 2.5 watts class A amplifier could drive this pair of speaker close to live performance loudness in my 12x16 ft room. The best speaker that let me enjoyed the soul and syn with the rythm of music that I played of all speakers that I ever owned.
Thanks for commenting on your experience.
Although you say they get loud on 2.5 watts, my curiosity wonders what they are like with the full power handling sized amplifier.
@@TimpBizkitBest put… it doesn’t require big watts but…What it does require is clean watts!
7 clean watts is done effortlessly and enough DB’S to make your ears bleed 👂 🩸😂😂
Just remember this, what you feed them is what you get out of them! If your input is not good your music will not be either but if it’s clean and a good recording you will be blessed with musical euphoria!
@halmetzger8429 most watts are clean unless you feed it a lepai 2020a cranked up to the point of crunch.
I have a set of mid 80s K-horns that have upgraded Crites crossovers. I have good corners and it is important to seal the back of the K-horns agains the corners. I used some foam 3/4 inside diameter piping insulation on the edges of the K-hors so they would seal against the wall. At that point the bass is awesome. Even so, I use a pair of REL 10 inch subs with a pair of McIntosh MC-30s and a C-52 preamp. The sound is magical with any source. VPI turntable, various CD players, etc. Just Magical. Great review.
Thanks!
Great system! MC-30’s are classic. I grew up in Binghamton, down the road from McIntosh, my mother and sister both worked in the Mid 1960’s. 😊🍺
I purchased those large Advents new back in the day. Powered them with a Phase Linear 400 power amp & 2000 preamp. Those or some AR's were quite good for the money.
I wish I could hear a pair ! I do however consider myself fortunate to own a pair of Altec Lansing Model 14.
Altec 14, a speaker I hope to one day add to my collection.
I have both Klipschorn and Altec Lancing A7 voice of the theatre both are driven by low wattage Single ended tube amplifier, they are both incredible speakers that when you play them loud, they don't sound harsh and you can feel what the musicians want to express through their performances. The dynamic of the music brings out the soul and emotion of the performer presenting the music, just like live performance right in front of you.
I really appreciate the review on these. I'm always keeping an eye out for a used pair of Klipschorn's. I've got both large and small Klipsch sub-woofers and one of them might add a little bit to them, but just as they are they're great. I've got a pair of Koss Model One speakers that pair really well with the large Klipsch sub-woofer.
Run a ksw300 with my horns helps some and able to leave it off for quieter running
I would love to see an Altec 19 review to follow this one. 🙂
Me too! Now, if I only could find a set..... 🙂
I remember my first pair of Large Advents...and the NLA's, 5002's, 5012's, and Anniversary versions. I enjoyed them for a time during the last 20 years but moved on. They definitely served their purpose and some things quite good pretty much like the other various 50 pairs I've owned in the last 25 years. Enjoyed them all.
One of my best friends had LaScalas in 1973-74 which carry the same drivers. I always thought they were the most dynamic speakers I ever heard. Ironically, he had replaced Original Large Advents (which I purchased). I spent hundreds of hours listening to the Klipsch at buddy’s place because I was intoxicated by them. To me, they were head and shoulders better than the Advents because of their dynamic properties. As far as the treble went, it was highly dependent on the recording. Led Zeppelin was pretty brutal because many of their albums were recorded horribly. Vocals and midrange was fantastic on decent recordings. Truly awesome.
We had La Scalas in my fraternity house in college. No idea how I left college with my hearing intact. :-)
@@stereoniche That’s a heck of a frat system!
@@stevezeidman7224 LOL, well, they were painted black, not a nice veneered set. As I recall, we also had a big Pioneer receiver driving them. They were hanging in our basement and would certainly rock it.
@@stereoniche My friend’s were also black. He powered them with Crown IC-150A / D150A. Those speakers were $1100 in ‘73. An absurd amount to me considering I bought 3 cars for that.
I've got both Advents and Klipschorns. These are two entirely different animals. The Advent is a sweet little speaker with no bad habits. The Klipschorn is... the Klipschorn. Go listen.
Lascalas and a big sub are a more room-friendly alternative. Active dsp multiamping with judicious eq and signal path delays can take them to incredible heights of realism.
Agree, they are a much better form factor, but the average hobbyist will not want to go through all that effort to improve the sound. I've had a couple of sets over the years and heard a set in our fraternity house in college. They can certainly rock! :-)
Great recommendation for the LaScalas!
One of the best
A set I really want--have to rearrange eveything to accomodate them, but what the heck. The efficiency is crazy so I could get that elusive great tube amp. Someday-' I hope. I really would love to check them out somewhere to get a real feel.
Hi - Happy to see such a thorough review but it’s very misleading that the khorns are not properly placed at any time in the video. Never use wheels under them, they should be coupled to the floor. And they must be placed in a corner to complete the woofer horn, otherwise there is no way you get proper bass. It’s going to be about -6dB already at 70hz and even worse below. I own three pairs and setup is critical for these to sing. When they do, there nothing quite like it. Hopefully setting them up right will bring tears to your eyes :) and goosebumps
Thanks for the Klipsch love.
Yes the K-Horn is probably the hardest speaker to properly place. Not only do they need to be tight in a corner. But the walls making the corner need to be of a particular length and speakers need to be a particular distance apart with nothing in between them. The walls make the opening mouth of the bass horn. And yes the folded horn crosses over at a higher point than a sub. So things placed in front of them are gonna be an issue. Your seating position should be the equivalent of sitting at the opening of that fully folded horn. And if I remember and done right that horn opening will be approximately the equivalent to 30’ to get the full depth. Yea that’s extremely hard to accomplish. They will work without those parameters but they will never sound like they were designed to sound. Make a proper room to meet all that and they will blow you away. These speakers are great but just not for most people. I use LaScalas with a sub. Much better daily driver.
I wish I had a way to set them up properly to hear their full potential. But realistically, this will be an issue for, I think, most newer homes. You almost need to build a room for the speakers.
However, IF you can accommodate them they have a very small footprint. Far smaller footprint than Scalas (which I have a pair of 77's). My father has the KHorns. Both are great, but I think the "Placement" issue for KHorns is way overblown. Yes, if you want the absolutely perfect performance out of them do they need a certain length and a certain sized room and obviously a corner (which let's be honest this shouldn't be difficult unless you live in a house full of circular rooms and every other room is an open floorplan). Heck I live in a relatively small 3 BR house and I have 6 different combinations to accommodate KHorns. It's not THAT difficult. And then there are also false corners you can build for them relatively easily. Anyway I digress, this con can be said for every speaker and subwoofer made. Yes placement matters; and also yes KHorn will sound amazing in any sized room. Even better if the wall is long and the room large. But once in a corner they take up literally zero space, unlike La Scalas. but I still love my Scalas despite the fact they give the illusion they are more versatile in where they can be placed in a room, but not really because they take up so much space unlike a KHorn in a corner.
@@Mudcat3434 I agree that proper sealing to corner is overblow. I experimented with my homebuilt Khorns (Speakerlab plans so it was same internal dimension to khorn but exterior didn't include unnecessary wood and when I put a top on it where it would be sealed against corner didn't measure any difference in bass output. The length and shape of the horn is what determines low bass, not mouth sealing against wall.
@@keithwiebe1787loved SpeakerLab, way back when I built a pair of Super 7s…
@@DQ-su6qfI built a pair of Speakerlab Ks. Had concerts for my block. Used a Marantz 2270 my neighbors across the street liked the vibrations in the ground.
In pauls paper "dope from Hope" he wrote an article about building false corners for them!
Indeed, I am actually planning to do just that for the Hartsfields.
It's a shame you don't have a corner on hand to extend the bass response. Otherwise you get a shorter horn and the sound escapes to early through the back. I hear some people have modded them with some extra boards to push the sound round through the front when they can't go in the corner.
Agree, I very much wish I could hear them at their full potential. There are mods that can be done, but given I swap speakers in/out each week, I did not want to go thru that effort.
Keep in mind, the Klipschorn celebrated it's 75th anniversary in 2021, it has been around 78 years now as of 2024 ! I have downsized from a beautiful pair of 1968 Klipschorns (NO collar/white grills) to a new pair of Forte' 4s. According to Roy D., he voiced them to sound close to the Klipschorn in this latest iteration, he wasn't far off ! 😊
Up graded mine with crietes speakers
Enjoyed your review of the Klipschorn and always wanted these speakers but as you mentioned, room to make these come alive was always an obstacle. But I must add that a comparison between these 2 models is pointless. A 2 way acoustic suspension vs a 3way horn loaded system at nearly 6 times the price? A more fair comparison would be with the horns vs the IMFs you just obtained. . Also to note, I have 2 Speaker Buyers Guide magazines dated 1978 & 1980 - Prices for the K Horns were $1040 & $1100 each.
At the moment, I only have two baseline speakers, the Advent and the Realistic Minimus 7. I use them because they are readily available. When it comes to a higher end, it gets more challenging as most are not that common. Oddly, the Klipschorn is probably the best candidate, but I am unable to properly set them up. A bit of a dilemma.
As someone who has owned 3 pairs of K-horns since 1975 I say there should be a federal law against not having then tightly in a unobstructed corner. I was one of the idiots that Paul Klipsch hated back in the day that ran his speakers with high powered solid state amps. First a Marantz 240 then A Phase Linear 700b. There is a special place in hell for me. I finally with my third pair am using a pair of McIntosh Mc30's that I overhauled. I mostly use the Klipsch for optical soundtrack films made from the 1920's through the 40's. I can't afford nor have the room for Western Electric horns.
I think the beautiful wood front on the Klipsch and the interesting top with the black grill cloth does more for me looks wise than the Advent. The Advent looks like your proverbial 1960s/70s speaker, a bit dated, while the Klipsch doesn't look dated at all. It still looks like something different and innovative. I heard the Klipsch a few times after hearing KEF 105's seconds earlier in the same room. The KEF's disappeared sonically. With the Klipsch you were obviously listening to the sound of a speaker; but a nice sound. The highs had a lively and effortless transient snap. The bass was obviously more generous than the 105s, but it was not that big a room, and the 105 was moved out into the room so as not to smother the sound of the Klipsch. The Klipsch was a much more obvious sound source than the sound of the 105s whose sound seemed to come out of thin air (it's midrange and tweeter were mounted top of cabinet in free air). Avantgarde is a high end horn speaker company whose horn drivers and design takes the horns out of the cabinet and rounds their shape using special materials so the sound doesn't sound like it's coming from a horn. But the price is restrictive.
Placed in the corners of the room the Klipsch had a most generous bass and warmth. The Audiophiliac on his channel said that the Grado headphones he uses (RS1) sound like a good horn speaker like the Klipsch.
So if a speaker doing a disappearing act sonically, is not your main concern, you might really like the Klipschorn; but you better have a fat wallet. I have thought of trying Klipsch. They might not have the flattest response but their exciting dynamics have won over many people, including surprisingly, the reviewer I mentioned, who said he now realizes that the fun factor is more important than the highest strictest level of frequency response accuracy.
May we ask what are some of the highlights of what you picked up yesterday, to whet our appetite?
Despite measurements, the klipsch sound more like real instruments than anything kef has ever made, including the maidstone. That also scales up with proper placement and components with room treatment. The kef are more polite, gentle and flat- but they don't fool, anyone that they are live instruments. The 105 is especially soft in the bass. Sounds very slow and bloated compared to folded horns. Sound in the real world, outside the lab, the kef takes a distant second for realism.
Just listen to "I still believe" by Tim Capello on "The Lost Boys" CD on them and that is all you need to hear. 🙂 Granted, this set has some upgrades, so that has to be considered. If one enjoys the "live sound", that is what they deliver in truckloads.
@@stereoniche From what I've heard from speakers that efficient, there seems to be a correspondingly fast transient response. Which is important to the illusion of live. A driver that's hardly moving because it's so efficient has an advantage as far as transient response. Also a certain frequency balance is definitely important. A spotlit quality sounds more live than a speaker that has too much warmth and is dark & murky sounding. Predictably with a tube amp there will be more warmth and spatiality. We haven't seen your results on the 2nd test yet, but if it's a vintage tube amp being used, the transient response might be a bit slower, but still fast enough to be convincing. Electrostatic and planar headphones with tube amplification is one of the all time greatest pairings. In fact it's magic. There have been some other kinds of speakers designed to be placed in corners like some vintage models by Roy Allison. When I move a conventional speaker close to the wall behind it, the bass gets more, the spatiality of the soundstage gets less and collapses, and the chalky coloration from the wall behind the speaker becomes much more pronounced. In a way, the Klipschorn and other speakers like it, go against the conventional wisdom that speakers should be at least 3 feet out from the wall behind them. I'm guessing you can't get around the wall coloration thing and early reflections from the wall being so close. Early reflections are known to confuse image locational specificity. Scott commented on the vagueness of instrument placement You can bend the laws of physics but you can't break them. What I heard with the Klipschorns though, many years ago, was a very "Take notice" and likeable sound in most ways..
Stacked advents transform their sound..never heard stacked klipschorns…
LOL. I've seen pictures of stacked DQ-10's, Quad ESL and B&W 801's, but stacked Klipschorns would be MASSIVE.
come on! you know the bass part of your review is invalid. shame too, because the rest of the video is very good.
Come on! You know I pointed out that I do not have proper corners, so the bass was limited. A shame too, since you listened to most of the video. :-) All kidding aside, since I have some JBL Hartsfields to review, I plan to build a temp wall, so going to try out Klipschorns again and see how much of a difference on the low end.
@@stereonicheHave some audio pampers grin
Your pricing on the klipschorns is wrong it most likely $1800 each or $3200 A PAIR
According to Stereo Review, it was $912/ea in 1982, that is a starting price, but they did not share a range.
X = 1982 manufactured couldn't read the rest for the veener salesman copy wrong grill cloth they were cane and the black has the laser tag klipsch logo are from 75,76,77.
In 1974 they were $1040 a piece in
Walnut oiled
@@stereoniche Yeah that is not accurate. My father paid something like $900 for a pair of La Scalas in 1977. KHorns were more at that time and even more in 1982 guranteed.
A pair of Klipschorns today cost around 12,000-14,000 dollars.
The original klipsch tweeter is phenolic and harsh. Especially if the horn apertures are metal and not tractrix/phenolic. It rolls off well below 20khz and also has a breakup distortion that can be painful. The Crites tweeter is a titanium diaphragm. It's far more linear and clean to well above 20khz. They also upgraded the junk 20% tolerance/high ESR (equivalent series resistance) electrolytic capacitors and installed 1% or 5% low ESR metallized polypropylene. These upgrades make for a MUCH better speaker than factory. Crites midrange is also better than the factory midrange. It's only in recent models that the Klispchorn moved to titanium and polymid drivers which are MILES better than previous drivers. They also now have tight tolerance crossovers, FAR superior to previous models, even better than Crites.
Excellent. Thanks so much Scott for the great information.
Are you referring to current Klipschorns in 2024 which sounds better than the older ones?
The original Bose 901's (properly positioned) are still the best speakers I've ever heard!
Well, stop by some time, I'll change that for you. :-)
They are definitely in my top three of favourite speakers I owned, the other two being Magnepan 1.5 and Elipson 1303
@@erwinvanhulten9561 The right room size and placement of 901's is key to enjoying the direct-reflecting effects.
It’s not a klipschorn!!!
Unichorn?
If the klipschorn has crites parts then it’s not a klipschorn. With crites parts, there is no way to tell if the intent of the klipschorn sound was preserved like we intended it.
Should be in a corner
Mine look like yours, plus I have a Pair of Belle’s 1980 ? Together they are unbelievable ! My old Marantz 2325 will rock them ! It’s live entertainment ! The Marantz is 125 min per channel. They will shake the house !
what an awful speaker that Advent was..
Maybe to some, but I do not think to the majority.
I think that you are the first person I have ever heard say that. Also doubled up they could give some very expensive speaker a run for their money.
I really enjoy your channel but I'd love to hear comparison audio as well . Putting a video with just one model of speakers have no meaning but a comparison always helps to understand the character of the system. This would complete your very appreciated reviews . I also hope you will review Dynaco a25/35...Kef 104ab....AR 10/11 and many other AR models....JBL L26/36 and many other JBL models...B&W DM4....Bose 501/601/901.....there are so many great speakers 🙂
Hi there. Thanks for the comments! So I compare each speaker I review to the New Large Advent because the Advents were so popular, most anyone can find a pair to take a listen and get an idea of their sound, then compare that to my review. If I start mixing it up, then I think it will become more challenging for others to understand how to gauge the metric. Of all the speakers you listed, I own two of them. So many different models were made, it would be impossible to compare them all to each other. I just acquired a very interesting and rare set of speakers, so keep a lookout as I will create a short clip to talk about them.
One thing I am going to do is create a video to explain my evaluation metrics. I think that may help as well.
I would add Ohm Walsh speaker; JBL L112, L166 Horizon, 250ti, L200, L300; Design Acoustics D8 towers; BIC Venturi Formula 6; Bose 901, 601; Altec Model 19; and Cerwin Vega 15" 3 ways.
Crites Xover components are junk ,I just got done rebuilding a crites ,it’s very low grade capacitors inductors,and resistors , just go to humble home made hifi capacitor test
And they use crap zinc galvanized terminal connectors ,iputon gold copper for $60 vs $10 for their connectors for $1500 15-20% better I owned 4 pair they still go cheap even on the khorn.
Older Klipsch crossovers used real AC capacitors. Oil filled bathtubs. Along with air core chokes.