Zack Snyder's 'Martha Scene' Isn't Dumb...It's Genius | The Movie Moment
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- Опубліковано 14 лис 2024
- Even though it's one of the most controversial scenes in Zack Snyder's DCEU films, the Martha Scene is undoubtedly one of the best scenes in Batman v Superman. Its overarching themes are too substantial and meaningful to not reach that conclusion. Let me know in the comments below if you enjoyed, and don't forget to subscribe and like! :) The hype for Zack Snyder's Justice League is real! So stay tuned for my reaction and review!
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#zacksnyder #batmanvsuperman #snydercut
Man of Steel: Fathers.
BvS: Mothers.
Zack Snyder's Justice League: Brothers and sisters.
I had thought about MoS and BvS in that way; but not ZSJL! Very nice, and very keen observation!
I would say ZSJL is about family.
Its so funny, BvS is becoming a cult classic. love this.
DUDE I KNOW! It's so cool to see. Thank You so much for watching man.
I thought it already was
And Lex Luthor the cult leader, manipulating everyone to the point of death.
Yah, cult classic, shitty movie, same as the views of this video.
Yeah only loved by Snyder cultists and hated by Normal people
Thank you! I always thought it was crazy no one thought of the fact their mother's have the same name, and that makes Bruce realize Clark is just a man as well. It humanized him in Bruce's mind, stopping him from killing him.
Yeah!
It really is something that is easy to understand when you stop and think. It forces you to see things from a very vulnerable perspective.
It’s been well known for over 80 years that their mothers had the same name.
@@superjesusjacksonyeah and you know what, captain marvel is a masterpiece😂😂,
See we both are not making any sense here😂😂,
Martha scene was not deep, it was stupid,
"Save my mom" would have been better than " save martha🤡"
You have just made Zack Snyder a legend
Why Thank You sir 🙏
Zack Snyder has and always will be a legend!
Love the video.
Honestly I think the majority of people just blindly bashed this scene because it was popular to do so at the time. When really it was a great scene that I thought never needed to be defended.
I cry everytime I watch that scene. .
I am happy that we share the same thoughts, my friend. And yeah, unfortunately this scene had a lot of negative memes; even I laughed at some of them, but I could also see the greatness of it.
It was popular to bash it but also... people honestly weren't mature enough to understand WTF even happening in that scene. 🤦🏻♀️😩 The complaints about it were always so f*ckin juvenile! You could TELL these people didn't know what the f*ck Zack was trying to tell them...
No, I bashed it (and still do) because it's ludicrous and unintentionally hilarious.
@@KabbalahSherry
You know what else is juvenile? Blindly labeling anyone who disagrees with you on something as "immature."
Idk why people mock this scene
It makes so much sense for him to calm down on listening to his late mother's name
Put yourself in his shoes, and you'd feel the same
If only more people thought like you Exalted. I guess it’s not so easy for others!
My heart broke when everybody makes fun of the scene. It was a powerful moment for me when i first watched it.
Dude I know, I can totally relate. It's sad when people legitimately mock it.
My heart broke too in the theater. Made me realize it was too late for a refund.
@@MegaHunter90210trolls are funny!! Aaawww I feelings are hurt, can u feel better to night?? Have a hug 🤗
The part in the movie about Martha!! It wasn’t really only about the name!! Batman was about to become the monster that kill his pRe ts!! he was about to go off against everything that the Batman supposed to represent!! it’s not because they’re besties because they both have a mom withe same name!!
@@mauriciohalo2081 exactly. How can people not see that? Its clear as days. I got it the first time i see it.
Batman was desperate. Listen to his voice. He begs Superman to save "Martha". The reason he became what he is today. That spark was lit again. He remembered after 20 years why he started this all. Saving Superman's mother was like saving his mother in a way. It's symbolic. He wants to redeem himself.
Yeah man! That’s why seeing him kick ass in the warehouse scene afterwards was so inspiring and beautiful.
batman wanted to kill supes coz he thought supes was a danger to the planet.... what changed?
When bruce was dragging clark , he literally said " I bet your parents taught you ...... " . So he was so angry he wouldn't give a F@k to superman's parent or superman himself he just wanted to kill him .
So how superman would said ( save my mama ) , bruce would replied which mama the kryptonian one , how I can go to another planet and save her , why should you alien have a mom ,
Even if superman said " save Sara don't let her die " .
Bruce would wait and think that a human being an innocent lady is on the bridge of death and it's his responsibility to save her front that psycho lex luther .
But luckily their mother name was the same , so he said ( save martha ) a human being ,
Even if superman knew that Bruce's mother name is martha , he would say martha , cause he has 0% chance to save her ,
He would ask her live over himself .
Love this movie .
Great way of putting it my friend!
"People hate what they dont understand"
Amazing movies.
Great usage of the quote! Agreed!
That stupid fucking excuse
I got it, I still hate it, what’s your excuse now?
yes, true. people laughed at the scene in logan where he buried professor x and had a physical/mental breakdown. people are fucking stupid
they also thought american sniper was propaganda in favor of military interventionism, or that gran torino was an excuse to be a racist piece of shit. again, people are fucking stupid
@@moshpit1012 lol these haters start crying in every video's comment section which appreciate this movie.
@@moshpit1012 so what if you hate don't watch then lol
There is a reason why superman died in BVS
Because in order to find hope you have to lose it -Zack Snyder
100% agree my friend!
The whole thing about them suddenly being friends once Batman learns that they’re mothers have the same name, ever since I first saw this film I never understood this mindset, I’ve always loved the scene quite a lot and I’d argue the two don’t properly become friends until the end of Zack Snyder’s Justice League when Bruce buys the bank that bought Clark’s home, there’s a difference between helping another person and being a friend with someone. It’s pretty obvious they’re not friends at the end of BVS, Batman helps Clark save Martha while Superman goes to Lex to stop him from whatever else he has planned, something I’ve always loved about this scene is that Superman originally went to Batman hoping to get his help, the reason he is speaking slowly at the start as well as landing to the ground to be eye to eye with him, he was trying to speak with him man to man rather than staying up in the air and blurting out the whole Lex Luthor has my mother thing right there, Batman wouldn’t listen, but when Batman hears the name Martha uttered by a man’s “final” breath, it reminded him of his father who died shortly after saying “Martha”, Batman saw himself as Joe Chill there and he acts aggressive at first, not only thinking he’s being compared to his parents killer but also Superman saying her name caused a PTSD outburst, but then when it’s clarified that Martha was the name of this aliens mother, it hit him, hit him hard, that he was about to kill a man who was simply trying to save his mom.
Batman offering to help Superman to save Martha was both a redemption moment as well as a second chance for him, saving Martha ended up helping him overcome his grief as well as his trauma, plus Diane Lane pointed out in an interview that him saving Clark’s mom to Batman was like him saving his own mother, or something along those lines. The line “It’s ok, I’m a friend of your son’s” I never really took seriously, he’s obviously telling her that to calm her down, probably understanding she’d be scared shitless here. So saying that he’s a friend, works as a comfort line as well as a nice bit of levity, especially after how tense the previous scene was. Like I mentioned the two don’t really become friends until the end of Justice League, because it’s one thing to help a guy out whose in need, and buying a bank so a guy can live in his home again, I know buying a bank probably isn’t that much to Bruce, but it’s still a really nice favor that people don’t just do. I may be wrong but that’s how looked at all of this.
I completely agree, my friend! It was beautiful to see how Batman found another reason to continue being Batman; when he faced Superman. And especially after Superman's sacrifice of course. You also really get to see how much Bruce respects Superman in Zack Snyder's Justice League.
Also the dialogue by Lex "Every boy's special lady is his Mother"
Yes, definitely!
First of all, I’m a huge Batman fan, especially The Dark Knight Returns version of Batman. Some would say Frank Miller’s Batman. Anyway, I loved this movie. Ben Affleck kills the role as I knew he would. I personally have always adored the “Martha” scene. When this movie had just come out, my mother had recently passed away, so the moment between Batman & Superman was probably about as gripping as a scene has ever been. That look on Batman’s face - I knew that look. I had been/was there.
It really is incredible how much a persons face can say about their state of mind.
I am so sorry for your loss, and it is beautiful that you found this movie and scene to be cathartic for you.
Thank You for your comment, Mark. 🙏
What I love the most is people saying they understand the scene but it is stupid and makes no sense, then give examples of how to improve the scene and make it "better"... only to show that they didn't understand it at all because all their suggested "improvements" would completely destroy the meaning behind it and don't make much more sense either.
I wonder what happened here... why did some of us get it right away while others STILL can't grasp it (or don't want to)? It's almost like a test to decipher who watches a film ONLY on a surface level and who is actually interested in meaning and substance. It should come to no surprise that most people who hate the Martha moment turn out to be huge MCU fans... Make with that information what you want...
I most definitely agree.
I mean to some of their defense, some of the “improvements” people have suggested is to have a Batman that doesn’t kill, even accidentally; after he tries to kill Superman. They say that it’s weird for Batman to supposedly come to his sense after the fight with Superman, and then go to the warehouse scene and kill some guys.
So I guess, it’s not really the scene itself; it’s the stuff surrounding it. For some people that is.
I disagree still though of course; I think Batman’s actions are justified.
@@superjesusjacksona bit late for this reply of mine but... i know comments are always good for a video, so lets go!
Martha scene gave me chills since first time. Even being a batsy fan for décadas, never realized both moms shared the same name.
In that scene you can see a Bruce realizing that he became a vigilante because of his mother death, but, most importante, hes becoming a killer, just like the one Who killed his parents.
So yeah, that scene changes all.
And about keeping killing right after this... is just more realistic. He just started a new Paty, a redemption. You dont go through black to White in just a second. And its funny cause people complain about both: or Batman killing in the warehouse, or Batman changing her mine after the Martha scene...
Is that hard to understand that Superman saying Martha kindof restarts the cruel Batman attitude so he can remember how all It vengan and because of It he wouldnt let "Martha die tonight"? Cmon... its a redemption, a restart for the Batman.
There an Alfred line that, certainly, would help to understand this scene if the line were refieres when Batman is shaking, that one saying something like "the fear, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness wich turns good man, cruel"
I fucking hate that something that simple needs to be explained like this because of some meme my fucking god.
And now the hate train for the Snyder cut about “lololol darkseid forgot were the earth was lololo” omg it’s going to be this all over again.
Good video btw.
Thank You for watching man!
And yeah I know it’s really unfortunate and tiresome to keep up with all the negativity... 😒😒
you nailed it, in the moment batman realized he was about to become joe chill (murderer of the waynes)
Exactly man!
Bro what “about to become” he fucking kill like 30+ people he no fucking Batman that’s the punisher
Dude thank you for saying things I thought while watching this in theaters.
Of course, thank you for the support !
I would actually argue that superman didn’t get angry when he pushed Batman at the start. That was only to show Batman that this was a fight he wasn’t winning and then later he says”stay down, if i wanted it, you’d be dead already” and then before superman could say anything Batman throws a smoke grenades and gets superman with the kryptonite. At that point Clark is fighting for his life
That is a great way of looking at it man.
Yeah when he pushed him that was say slow your role buddy calm that down
He threw batman through a building before the kryptonite bomb... thats a pretty harsh "slow your role"
Batman's thing was dealing with literal xenophobia, demonization, god and man throughout the entire movie (lex luthors motivation as well). The Martha scene humanized superman. Superman has a mom. Batman was going to take her son away from her. Amy Adams sold that her line! The Martha scene was the perfect way to negate batmans hate and start up his redemption.
Most definitely man!
His redemption started by mowing down a layer of humans with his bat mounted minigun, then he blew up KGBeast with a flamethrower. He must of had quite the epiphany
Batman already said moments before that scene "I bet your parents taught you that you mean something" so he already knew Superman has a mom.
@@elijahbezalel7432 BUT batsy does not realize that superman have human parents, batman just assume that Jor el and lara el grew up on earth and raised superman.
The scene from Martha made me cry about that when Batman had flashbacks when his mother's name was spat out by Superman begging Batman to save his mother who is named Martha.
Honestly I do hope we get more of the Snyderverse. I hope we get Zack Snyder’s Justice League parts 2 & 3, Ben Affleck’s Batman solo movie/ series, David Ayer’s Suicide Squad and more.
#RestoreTheSnyderverse #BenAffleckBatman # ReleaseTheAyerCut
I hope so too. I’m going to have to start praying every night! Haha
I love BvS, but Clark didn't knew about Bruce's parents. He said "Save Martha" cause he understood Bruce won't save him, but maybe he'll save someone else. Whatever Clark would've tell him, Bruce wouldn't listen. It was something really lucky that their mothers share the same name. And that adds to how practically a miracle word was that saved Batman to become what he hates.
That’s a really great take, my friend! I like the idea that it was a lucky coincidence. It really connects with the idea of “faith” that we got with Batman in Justice League ✊✊
I completely agree man the Martha scene was so special and I'm so glad some people realize how special it is thank you for spreading the word #restoretheSnyderVerse
Thank You so much, my friend.
It is my pleasure! #RestoreTheSnyderVerse
This scene is one of my favourites in any superhero film. It gave me chills as you could see the horrors of what Batman has become as he recovers his own humanity by recognizing the humanity of the "god" infront of him. It's poetic, it's meaningful. It shows a huge amount of growth in that moment. It reminds everyone on screen and in theatre of the consequences.
I completely agree Victor
Fantastic video, exactly what I have to say to people about this scene. Now I can finally just start spamming this link.
Thank You so much for watching, Dennis! And I'm glad I could help you out! :)
It's dumb.
Only if you're a pretentious fanboy you'll think it's amazing.
I think u need a level of maturity to understand how the Martha scene was the most beautiful in the whole movie. As a son, it made me realize how much everything I do somehow always with pleasing my mum 😂😂. Bats quickly turned to Bruce as soon as he heard the name. He forgot his ideals etc
Definitely agree my friend. Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
If his mum has a different name he'd fucked?
Also batman assumed superman had earth parents. So this changes nothing
Batman literally told Clark ten seconds before he was about to stab him that "I bet your parents believed you were here for a reason blah blah blah", so Bruce was literally already conscious that Superman had a mother, hell a father too. So no, Lois pointing out that Superman has a mom shouldn't mean shit to him at that point. Plus he decides to spare Superman (someone he has been planning to kill for over 18 months) but not all the other goons he gunned down after their fight who may or may not have deserved to die? Sorry, guys but this moment still makes no sense.
#RESTORETHESNYDERVERSE
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse!!
2:40 like hell he does
The main issue lies in the fact that Superman didn’t do everything to try save his mother, he didn’t try asking a third, forth or fifth time and was acting immature by letting anger get to him instead of putting that aside to save his *MOTHER* (which I wouldn’t have a problem with if they actually addressed this) and then there’s the fact that when Lois runs in and clarifies that Superman was talking about his mother it reinforces the fact that it was just about her name. You saying that Superman knew to say Martha instead mother also just reinforces the fact that it was just about her name being the same as Bruce’s mom’s. They could have had him say “mother” instead of Martha, I like the idea that Bruce is basically becoming the bullet that killed his mother by killing Superman(even though lex probably would’ve just let her go now that Superman is dead) but they took it *WAAAAYYYYY* to literal by having Superman flat out say Martha.
That's a good point Moshpit, I can understand it. I just personally think that using the actual name is a much more direct reference into Batman's conscience. It's much more powerful and personal if a name is used. Thank You for your comment, man!
Clark is helpless child and he knew he is going to get killed so he has one last attempt to save his mom even if he died
"Save my mom" wont work logically in clarks point if view.... how would the other person know who the hell ur mom is thats not disrespect its like identification... save this person called martha clark needs his mom saved some way or the other
Bruce just said clark isnt even a man so saying mom wont even help clark as bruce would consider his mom to be alien and wont care
Clark knew "a man like that words wont stop" so he doesnt yelll again and again as clark gets attacked everytime he tries to talk so clark uses his fist to keep batman down and then talk.
Its a simple logical scene its like saying ur giving a letter to ur mom through the postman but u write my mother instead of her name how the hell will the postman know who ur mom is?? Same logic
I've been saying this exact thing since the movie came out. Also, remember that to Bruce, Clark had been hiding on Earth, but Zod made it seem like Kal El had come to Earth fleeing Zod as an adult, not an infant refugee of a dead race.
That’s very true! Good point.
I’d also say Zod’s introduction definitely made Kryptonians in general seem more nefarious!
@@superjesusjackson That was the genius of Zack Snyder, taking from Superman: Earth One to get that alien invasion feel for the film and New 52 where Superman starts off on the wrong foot with the government and the world and he's not allowed nor inclined to be the goody-two-shoes that normies see him as.
AND I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO UNDERSTOOD. #geniusesneedfriendstoo
Definitely Ian!
First i don't understand what this scene or this movie about but when i do, its a heart breaking to me. I agree this movie is about mother's/woman. I really appreciate this video. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse
Thank you so much Axel, it means a lot! It is very heartbreaking to me as well, and I think that's why it's so powerful. We all have mothers, we all know what a mother's love feels like. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse
"Does Batman know Clarke is Bruce"
What does this line depict?
I think you wanted to say
*Does Clarke know Bruce is Batman*
3:29
I messed up! You're right.
I was meaning to say "Does Batman know Superman is Clark?" in that specific part of the video. It was just a simple dumb mistake, my apologies!
@@superjesusjackson you don't need to apologise bruh, it happens
Nicely put man
Thank You sir! 😎😎
It was stunned I have been a comic book nerd since the 80,s and never put it together
You are 100% right but we already knew that
True, maybe I really was just echoing stuff people already knew. I just wanted to put in my small own 2 cents.
MARTHAA
WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!!!
The idea maybe, the execution not so much...
Hmm 🧐🧐. What are some other ways it could have been done more effectively? I’m interested.
@@superjesusjackson there's a video on youtube called i fixed the martha moment or something like that. It edited the scene giving it a few extra flashbacks. It gives an alternative to how it could've been done at least. Anyway its just my opinion. Thanks for the reply though 👍
@@budidayaberuk6144 hmm i see where u r going for but in this whole movie :
First there was just enough dialogue that would happen at the moment, doesn't add any lines for explanation, u have to sense it
Similar one is at that moment when superman dies and lois gives a small look at wonder Woman
We have to sense it, the human emotions
These all fakers who said they are Batman fans and were never able to understand this scene when it links to the only reason why Bruce became Batman
Finally someone is making sense of the Martha reasoning!! Also, something else, the last thing his dad said before he died, was Martha!! That moment is what created Batman, scare away monster, watch your mother die from villians!! Later on in the movie, that was killed!! The Batman lost it, someone he lost was taking!! He started taking bodies is this broken Batman lost in the war trying to save Gotham! And his mind batman. Feels superman is a threat, he is gonna kill him to pretect earth! Befor he he kills superman he yells save Martha, he stops, and remember the last word is dad said “Martha”!! Batman was so lost he was about to become, everything he maid Batman to pretect, he was about to be come the monster villian!! That’s what the part Martha represented, and I think, Zack Snyder story, Batman redemption!!
5:07 true... Lot of characters we see like Batman , lex, Superman aren't final products.. Zach was building them towards it
Exactly! Can’t believe people didn’t catch this or understand this
Yep. People are used to turning their brains off for comic book movies and you can’t do that with BvS...
Yeah most definitely! If you do that, then you'll miss a lot of vital things.
Its 2021 and people are still talking about this movie. This just proves that it was so misunderstood at that time. Finally people are understanding this movie. Its great.
I know man, it's amazing. It almost feels like I can finally breathe haha.
the concept of the scene is great, the execution isn't
4:18
You have to consider that this Batman is more older and jaded, he is done with giving chances to luck for that they might be good(Bad guys being good such as JOKER or good guys being bad such as Two-Face!!)
He haven't had faith for along time (Untill he brought the team together in Justice League) and when we see the JL timeline in the upcoming invasion of Darkseid in JL2 and 3(If there's JL2 & 3) Superman does really wipe-up the entire human race! and they teases that in the knightmare scene!!
So I think Bruce is more wise in this scene and he should deal with Superman as a potential threat!
"20 years in Gotham Alfred, we've seen what promises are worth, how many good guys are left? and how many stay that way?!"
Yes that's true. I think that's what makes this Batman's journey so believable and powerful; the things that caused him to lose his way are nothing to scoff at.
Welll.... UA-cam recommende me this video & i have to say i am soo thankful to my recommendation... I just found my new fav channel!
I’m flattered to hear you say that Pratik!
Thank You!
Very nice breakdown!
Glad you liked it! And thank you so much for watching as well.
How can people not see that Clark knew what he was saying? He even looks at him manipulativly and says "you're letting them... kill martha". He knows that Bruce has been fighting his whole life trying to undo Martha's death. He knows this is the only thing that will get through to him.
Then why wait till the last second? Why not say anything sooner?
@lirainweerasekera643 he tried..
"Bruce please, listen to me... I was wrong. Lex wants us to"
/attacked
"You dont understand! There's no time"
Batman: "I understand!!!!"
/attacked again
He knew at that point that Batman was not going to listen to reason, so he trys to intimidate him by skillfully throwing him around without killing him
"Stay down! If I wanted it... you'd be dead already!"
/Kryptonite bomb to the face.
@@lifeoftoast1864 lex has my mom.
Just 4 words. If he can't say that in the middle of all this I don't know what to tell you.
Also why did he push him and throw him through a building. He even said if I wanted it you'd be dead already.
Just say the four words instead of all this.
@lirainweerasekera643 it's a movie man. The plot of the movie is for them to fight. The subtext of this fight is that Batman believes that Superman is an existential threat to humanity and there is nothing that will stop him. He even says Batman real name when he first arrives and Batman is completely unfazed by this. Also Superman doesn't think of this strategy of manipulating Bruce out of his vengeful rage by bringing up his Bruce's mom, and the parallel between the way his mother was taken from him, until he is about to die. Until that point he felt he could intimidate Bruce into helping him. He had no idea Bruce had tools that would make the fight even until it was too late.
But again, it's a movie about superheros. The plot wants them to fight and to get into a position where they can lay down a profound message. The message being not that Superman has a mom, but that Superman with his dying breaths is emulating Bruce's fathers dying breaths. Crying out for Martha, and his position in it all is of Joe Cool. Batman became the person at the end of the gun in the scenarios.
"Thats the fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness... that turns good men cruel." The plot needed them to get to this position. Everyone knows Batman stands no chance against Superman unless Superman screws up. But to say he didn't try is just not true. He totally tried and he screwed it up. It's that simple. He was panicked because his mother had less than an hour to live.
He even contemplated killing Batman if he has to. "I have to convince him to help me... or he has to die."
"Nobody stays good in the world"
@@lifeoftoast1864 you lost me at its a movie they have to fight.
Civil War does this better. Much better.
since I watch it I knew all what is talked on the vid, dunno why people saw as something dumb, is so obvious...
It really is pretty obvious, but hey man; every one is different unfortunately haha.
honestly I think superman says "save Martha" and not "save my mom" also because if he said "safe my mom" then the first question batman would ask is "whats her name? where is she?"
Hmm, good point. I never really thought about it that way. It's interesting because it's almost like the scene would have still happened normally if Superman would have just said "save my mom."
Isn’t that what he wants?
Well, I mean ... You're right. That's how I understand the scene now as well, with the additional thought that the situation kind of put Bruce in the position of his own parents' killer. He's got his boot to Superman's throat, a spear pressed to his heart, and the last thought on Superman's mind and the last word to pass his lips is exactly the same as Thomas Wayne's was. So yeah, I can imagine Bruce suddenly felt a massive shock of guilt. The trouble is, it took me months and two rewatches to begin to see it that way, and it's taken you eight minutes to explain something the audience was supposed to understand in an instant. Instead, what most people (including me, the first time I saw the movie) got was Superman weirdly calling his mother 'Martha' instead of 'Mom', Ben Affleck freaking out because their moms have the same first name, and then suddenly, unbelievably, flipping from being on the point of murdering a man he believes is a threat to all of humanity, to calling that same man his "friend". It was too much of a change, too quickly, with too vague a motive. Like I said, I don't disagree with your analysis, but the point is that the movie failed to communicate this to its audience. And that continues to be a problem. I think it would've helped if we'd seen the moment Clark Kent realizes Batman is Bruce Wayne, and if we'd then seen Clark research Bruce's family history and his childhood trauma. But all we saw - even in the extended cut - was Clark investigating Batman's vigilantism and deciding he had to be stopped. (I actually really like most of the rest of the movie. I also love 'Man of Steel' and I'm a huge fan of Snyder's 'Justice League', which I've watched four times since its release.)
That's a fair criticism. It really is, believe me; and I see your point. I do think though that a movie requiring the audience to watch it again, think a little harder, or listen more closely; isn't necessarily a bad thing. It took me months to get my thoughts straight on this movie, and even more time after the extended cut came out. Everyone has different learning processes, so it would have been great for the movie to have catered to as much people as possible; but it clearly didn't, and I don't think that's ultimately a negative. The amount of time I spent thinking about this movie or setting my thoughts in order, I don't regret at all. I think that means the movie was complex and substantive. That's my opinion though, of course.
What you said about how it would have been better to see Clark realize Batman is Bruce would have been really cool, and would have given more context rather than just Clark calling Batman Bruce before they fight. But I think the writers didn't do that, to increase the impact of the Martha Scene. If we saw Clark do that, then a lot of people would have been like "Oh, I see where this is going."
I really appreciate your comment my friend!
@@superjesusjackson That's correct. They could've add much more scenes to understand behind of this scene so that Snyder would not have to explain this scene later. The only problem is they didn't explain enough in the movie and because of that understanding is heavily dependent on audience and I think that's a sour of this movie.
Dude, I gotta say, I love this idea! It would make A LOT of sense. Superman getting to know Batman's backstory, and use it to get out of the situation. Though that would make it even weirder when Superman goes to fight Batman and doesn't talk to him about what's going on...which is something that would also be very interesting to fix. But besides that, I love the idea!
Clark basically new Bruce was Batman at the party. Him saying Martha just made Batman realize he was in the wrong it was basically the only thing he could have said to stop him. Masterful way to do things in my opinion, I still fail to see why u think it needed more background explanation or whatever.
@ how many more scenes do u need? Like 10 or 20 minutes of this? I wouldn't think it would be too hard for Superman to figure out Bruce is more than a playboy businessman from the party they went to. Do u need things to be more explained so that the climax isn't surprising or entertaining. I'm sorry but there's no reason to want more story behind this scene it was perfect.
People keep talking about Batman talking about Superman's parents, He probably meant it as his planets parents, When he hears his mother has a human name he realizes that him and Clark aren't that different
This is probably what batman thought:
Superman came from a planet, A planet beyond the stars way more powerful than his, praised as a child by his parents and others he was brash and uncareful, He came to earth and fought so recklessly and ended up destroying many buildings
This is why he not only makes fun of superman by saying he is no god he does the most impacts compared to the other criminals he killed in the warehouse, this shows aggression
Batman hearing "Martha" triggers his memory he asks superman "Why did you say that name" over and over again in anger, How did the alien find out his mother's name? From the choked "Martha" was the most clear so they began angrily interrogating them, Till Superman's love came, She came to stop the murder of her lover, "It's his mother's name!" Broke him out of his anger getting off of Clark throwing the spear.
I agree with this, great observation Galactic!
Instead of saying listen to me, please, how about "lex kidnapped my mother, martha kent and says that i need to kill you to save her"?
And all this lead to the warehouse fight 🎉
In both versions of JL superman use freeze breath against Stephenwolf why didn't do that to batman and explain what was going on in bvs? Just an dumb scene in my opinion and it didn't help how batman kills people early feels unreadable both before and after the film.
I understand your point Crazy, thanks for commenting and watching though.
Only psychopaths address their mom by their first name.
Its still clunky writing which no one can address in their defenses of it. Batman wouldn't have realized they have the same name unless Superman said the name, they didn't take the time or the care to write the scene for that to be reveled in any other more organic way, so he was forced to drop that clunker of a line. Its as simple as that. Then Lois comes in to nail it home even further for the slow kid at the back. "That was his mothers name!!".
It was just a dramatic visual to end the fight on and they couldn't come up with the dialogue to back it up. I understand conceptually that Batman can be reminded of the pain of pointless death with the memory of his mother and that could cause him to rethink things. But a good person ( a hero, even) would find it completely irrelevant if their moms name was the same as someone else. They could reach that conclusion and spare a life by being reminded in a more natural way of their own past, regardless of what anyones name is, just by having human empathy. If you can't see massive room for improvement on this scene I don't know what to say. Don't make movies I guess would be one thing.
Its a bad scene, media criticism will become pointless if people just disregard reality for their feelings, or for attention on youtube and say the worst moment in a messy movie is genius. There is no point in caring about the craft of movies, or the word "genius" if thats whats going to happen from now on.
Fair enough, my friend; fair enough!
@@superjesusjackson I mean this whole scene relied on batmans' and superman's mom having the same name if it was any other name it would have been better
The bgm in BvS is chilling 💜
Omg I know Stephen! 👏🏼
batman didnt stop his attempted murder because the dude's mother had a shared name, he stopped his attempted murder because what he thought was a potential world dominator showed himself to be just another dude trying to do the right thing. he showed he was a human amongst them, not a god/devil as lex would have us believe
didnt batman know that superman was saving ppl? it was on the news
Yes Andrew, exactly!
He was on the news, but he also fell into the other stuff Lex was trying to convince Batman of in regards to Superman.
@@superjesusjackson how did lex convince batman? that made no sense?
the capitol him bombing cant be blamed on superman. it should be obvious that someone is trying to make supes look bad, especially to a detective like bats.
@@WL1264 Batman in Batman v Superman is clouded by his rage. He was becoming disillusioned with getting rid of crime in Gotham because of Superman's arrival to Earth and the destruction that it brought, as well as the death of robin.
He was smart, but it was a very narrow minded smart; and he wasn't able to see the bigger picture. Because he was so enraged and frustrated, he would be easily convinced by the media's distrust of Superman; as well as Lex Luthor's attempts to make Superman look bad to the public eye.
It doesnt matter what kind of theory or explanation you want to put behind that scene, what makes it dumb is the execution. Superman saying out of nowhere "save Martha" is out of place and makes no sense, because: 1. nobody calls their mother like that and 2. why would a stranger (Batman) know who Martha is?. I dont know why people think that nobody understood this scene when is pretty obvious the intention it has: Batman realizing that Superman has a family like everyone else, making the conection with the name of his mother. Maybe if the scene was like "please, save my mother, Martha Kent" or whatever, it would make it more natural. Or just dont use her name, Batman realizing that superman cares about her mother is enough to trigger some empaty i think.
"save Martha Kent, my mother". I think it sound a little more natural for this scene.
Watch the scene again. He tries to say "You are letting them kill Martha K...k...". He tries to pronounce "Kent", but he is unable to because Batman is choking him. You can very clearly hear the K.
That is why, the second time, he just says "Find him, save Martha", because he is realizing he can't pronounce a sentence so long, he doesn't have enough air because he is being choked.
Batman hears the name of his mother and that triggers his PTSD, he freaks out and turns even more violent, and that is what accidentally gives Lois enough time to get there so she can tell Batman it's his mother's name.
When Lois talks to Batman he realizes he didn't understand a fucking thing and that Luthor has been manipulating him throughout the entire movie. What he believed up until that moment is that Superman tried to kill her in Africa, and he saw her as Superman's biggest victim. When she shows up to protect Superman, he realizes he's been misled, because obviously Superman hasn't done anything bad to her - and that is why she defends him - .
And THAT is why he decides not to kill Superman, not because he's "realizing he's becoming the kind of monster he has always hated" or because "he now sees Superman as a human", those interpretations don't make sense.
So basically, when he sees who he believes is Superman's biggest victim actually defend him, he realizes he can't be a bad guy. It doesn't make sense. Then Lois explains to him he's been manipulated by Luthor and it all makes sense to Bruce. Bruce also realizes that, by "Find him", Superman meant Luthor.
Bro, he was trying to get out Martha Kent, so that Batman would know WHO needed saving ... but Batman was cutting off his windpipe, and he barely could get the 1st name out! 🤦🏻♀️🥴 How you clowns have missed these things allll these years, I'll never know. Seriously, a lot of ya'll just aren't mature enough understand WTF is even happening psychologically in these characters's heads...
this would make sense if batman didn´t proceed 5 min later to murder all lex´s goons like they werent human or had no mother and family
not to mention the dozens of guys he also killed before his fight with superman. I believe this moment would be much more impactful and less ridiculed if batman hadn't killed before, if superman would be his first kill, and he is justifying that action by thinking superman is not a human. he even said something along the lines of "you're not brave, men are brave" during the fight. therefore he didn't think he's going to break his no killing rule when he kills superman. until superman said martha, which obviously triggered memories of batman's mother, and lois clarified that it's superman's mother. and batman realizes that superman has mother, just like a regular human. unfortunately it was all ruined for some "cool" action scenes where batman shot up and ran through a bunch of cars with people inside them and blowing them up. I mean, most of those guys are probably just trying to do their job and never actually hurt anyone.
Hmm, I can totally see your point. That if Batman hadn't accidentally(or purposefully, however you want to look at it) killed some guys; it would have definitely made his decision to kill Superman more impactful!
I see your point, but then again Superman wasn't a kidnapper, he wasn't a murderer..those guys were or at the very least aided Luthor's plan. Also, those guys weren't there to play hopscotch with Batman, they were determined to kill him; so if anything, it's self defense. Also, I know it's not the same thing, but some Nazi soldiers ALSO just followed orders and had a mother and family. I don't think they should be exempt.
@@superjesusjackson but batman thinks superman is a murderer tho, or at the very least was the one causing the destruction of metropolis that killed a lot of people. that's what triggered him to try to kill superman, because he saw superman as a level of threat that is way higher than any villain he's encountered before. and again, batman doesn't think superman is a human, so by killing supe he's not really breaking his code. batman is always gonna be a more interesting character when he still kept his no killing rule. similar thing happens in zsjl as well, in the knightmare sequence when batman dropped the f-bomb when threatening to kill joker, it just feels flat cos we already saw this batman killed dozens of people both before and during the knightmare timeline
@@ivandarmawan9372 also doesn´t make any sense that joker is still alive in a universe were batman broke he's moral code, gives the impression that he just kill's goons but not the ones who are really in charge. Not to mention that jim gordon would never colaborate with this batman like in both justice league movies
Consuela: *No, no...*
😂😂😂 this is gold
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse #ReleaseTheAyerCut #ReleaseTheNumbers #MakeBatFleckMovie #ChrisTerrioFan #ManOfSteel2WithHenryCavill #CyborgMovieWithRayFisher #DeathstrokeHBOMax #GalGadotFan #JusticeForJohnnyDepp :)
Agree 100%
Thank You for watching my friend!
Anyone who thinks it’s dumb just doesn’t have a brain let’s be honest 🤷🏻♂️😂
Plenty of smart people think the scene is badly executed haha. Maybe they’re not using all of their brain? Only part of it? LOL
It’s a genius idea but seeing as a lot of people didn’t get it or thought it was dumb anyway, not so genius execution
Understandable Josh!
Still.. Batman was trying to kill Sups because like Zod, he could destroy the planet one day, that was his main reason in the whole movie... and then he forgets that. Not a hater, i really love BvS UE, is my favs superhero movie
Thank you so much for watching Chernoalpha and your comment!
So he sees Superman as a human and decides not to kill him, since killing him would make him Joe Chill.
Fine.
But in response to this he goes out and kills a bunch of goons just so he can find some sort of solace for a problem that hasn't had much to do with his mother the whole movie.
Sure Superman makes him feel powerless, and he felt powerless that night, but his mother isn't what's driving it all.
It's the need to murder the people who murdered his parents. And that's something Batman should've let go of by Year 20.
You forgot the real problem affecting Batman for decades: guilt. He has the feeling of guilt for so long like losing good people like Harvey Dent and Robin. He felt guilty for not saving his parents, a trauma that can take months or decade to recover to some people.
It is still dumb cause it assunes the audience knows that superman knows the name of bruce mother ... the execution is overall stupid even if that is the link they want ... superman should have won and save bruces life and let me know that way his mother is to be saved
Or have lois stop bruce just in time
Yeah that’s true man. It’s never okay to assume the audience will know anything. Good point
Of course it is, its a genius movie , just not for people with a mentality of a brat
I think what's really happening is.. James Gunn is starting the new DCU like Marvel, introducing the origins of the characters but since he can't do this and he won't.. he wants to change the entrees of these characters such as the Justice League before the SnyderVerse can or able to connect and especially to DCEU. Just think about it.. the casting of the new superman for an example.. it looks like Henry Cal. There is something going on in the background and they won't tell us. Well, I just did. 1000% TRUE.
Yes, the idea itself is great. There’s no doubt. But the way Zack chose to show the scene was….not so great 😅
That's fair Benzir! Thanks for watching.
This is one of the most overthinking for the sake of being different but great analysis though
It’s not for the sake for being different, I truly believe what I’m saying here. But I appreciate the watch and comment.
"This movie is about women"
...
This movie is about men talking about women by a closet incel...
My eyes are rolling out of my head. UA-camrs love trying to justify shitty movies. It's fine to admit it's bad. Snyder can make other movies and hopefully they're better.
I just want to express my passion for something that I love. I appreciate your comment though, and I hope Snyder can make other projects that you'll end up liking!
@@superjesusjackson That's cool and you can love it but the scene is far from "genius". Not only is the line incredibly silly it required Lois Lane to run in and say "It's his mother's name!". What son would say his mother's name in that moment? They would more likely say "Save my mother". The only reason he said "Martha" was because the script thought it was clever and needed Bruce to think "hey, that's my mom's name." The scene could have been written so much better than that. Instead it came off incredibly stupid and clunky. Which is why the world laughed rather than cried. This whole movie is neat ideas with terrible execution. This doesn't all fall onto Zack Snyder. A lot of this is the fault of Chris Terrio who has proven to be a pretty shitty writer.
My eyes are rolling out of me head. Random NPCs love trying to justify shitty opinions. It’s fine to admit you don’t like changing your mind based on bullshit criticisms being debunked. You can come up with other opinions, hopefully they’ll be better.
People are just dum.. I get it the first time Im watching it.
Smart man 👌
Bu bu buttt people don’t talk like this!!! The delivery was poorrrrr
gr8 video...
Thank You man, I appreciate it!
The majority of people who think the scene is silly can easily see your point and the symbolism behind it. It was just poorly executed as others have said. Your counter arguments for why Superman was brash and lashed out still don't excuse him behaving like that when his mother's life is on the line. I get that he may have wanted to incapacitate Batman so he could talk to him without the distractions but it gives his potentially final words less weight since he barely made an attempt to talk before using physicality. Saying Martha instead of mom or mother also seems forced due to the coincidence of their mother's names being the same. Clark intentionally using Martha to trigger Batman doesn't make sense. If that was his plan all along we should have seen him investigating that specifically or at least given a hint about it. It also just isn't in Clark's nature. Your explanation seems like a desperate attempt to make sense out of him saying Martha with nothing to back that up in the film or even from Zack Synder directly when he explains the scene. I do like the symbolism of it all but the execution make the moment unearned and cheesy, which ruins any kind of emotional resonance with the audience unless they overlook the silliness of it all.
That's a fair point Nicolas. In my opinion, I am able to excuse Superman's brashness because of the type of Superman he is in Snyder's universe. Snyder's universe portrays these "perfect" heroes as brash, hasty, and sometimes morally gray. It's just a different Superman, and I appreciate the "poor" execution of the whole thing, cause it adds to the realistic and complexity of human nature. In this movie, everyone is at their lowest, and in Zack Snyder's Justice League is where these heroes wouldn't make the same mistakes they've made in the past.
That's my opinion though of course, I appreciate you watching and commenting Nicolas!
Next title: Flat earthers aren't dumb they are genius
Or why Infinity war was great.
@@gauravsolanki4794 Why Snyder Cut was great when the fist two hours were draggy
Haha, that's a good one! Not gonna lie
@@aviram7129 draggy what?
It just felt draggy because we saw most of that in josstice league in a way. It wasn't actually draggy
🤦🏽♂
I personally think that it would have worked even better if batman didn't kill.
I totally get that point! I would have liked to see the events of the movie play out that way, I’m curious.
I think you've made a point. But that point wasn't made clear to the viewer in the movie.
Fair enough, my friend; fair enough! Many share your sentiment.
How about No.
How about...maybe?
Nah.
It's just dumb.
But, the Synder cut was redemption.
@@raymeester7883 what's so dumb?
@@Mercwithamouth616
Martha!
@@raymeester7883 Explain what is dumb about it.
the scene fell apart because of batman yelling " why did you say that name" he should have just frozen up and his mother's face should have been shown like a flash of memory. that would have worked better IMHO.
Hmm, that is a good point. It would have been interesting to see it work out like that.
Youre not looking from Batman's point of view, he upto that point thought that Superman was alien with no human connection, when Superman says "save Martha" , "Youre letting him kill Martha" he gets hit by his PTSD, he doesnt understand why is alien asking him to save my mom Martha, who is killing Martha, why is he taking that name. When Lois came and said "it was his Mother's name" batman realized he became someone he never wanted to become, he looks around the ground breathing heavily and screams and throws the spear away, he understood the man who he thought was an Alien is actually asking him to save his mom while he himself is about to die. You will understand this scene the best way if a psychologist explain it to you.
@@parthsahu8909 yes of course , that is how the scene is set up. All am saying is that when batman repeats that line , "why did you say that name" it feels comedic and ham fisted , they could have had the sequence work without saying that specific line . That's all am saying. Try to imagine the sequence without it and you will get what am trying to say here.
@@mehrankhan7871 if you have seen the movie American sniper , there the man had PTSD , he screamed and yelled at a person who was drilling holes because he during his deployment in Middle east saw the terrorist kill a kid by drilling hole into his head. It's based on true story. So everyone looses it when they get struck by PTSD.
Hahahhahahha no