Ep. 084 - How to Sight In a Rifle
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- Опубліковано 9 сер 2023
- On this episode, Seth is joined by Ballistician, Jacob Morrow and Project Engineer, Miles Neville. The guys explain how to sight in a rifle for conventional range hunting, extended range hunting, and competition. They also discuss the dos and don'ts when zeroing your rifle. The podcast wraps up with two new, “One Cartridge, One Bullet” answers. Hopefully this episode is helpful the next time you sight in your rifle.
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For 25 yard zeroing, we would make adjustments after each shot until it was hitting in the circle, but the other thing to remember is that at 25 yards, even a 1" circle is 4 MOA. Usually, that was no more than three adjustments before we had aligned our point of aim, and at that point, we were grouping within the circle.
Great vid. And yes, laser bore sight can be off. My favorite book is "Long Range Shooting Manual" by Ryan Cleckner. He is a lawyer and an author and podcaster. Formerly, he was a sniper team leader in the 1st Ranger Battalion 75th Ranger Regiment for some tours of duty in the GWOT. His instructional video has him zeroing a rifle at 25 yards. This always gets you on paper at 100 yards. And to that point, some outdoor ranges have a 25 yard zone in the rifle end of the range just for that purpose. It turns out that bore-sighting, old fashioned as it is, is still the best way to start the zero. It will get you within a few MOA at 100. And usually, the big variant is the windage.
I bought a factory Savage 6.5 Creedmoor and shoot F-class 1000 yard and 600-yard matches. Shoots well. Just ordered 7mm prc for hunting. You guys do great job. Keep it up.
I have been using 4DOF for 2 years now. After the Podcast series you guys made on it, I switched over to ZERO ANGLE. its a complete game changer.
I test my reloads and gather all my data at Sea level. Roughly 80ft in elevation. But I hunt at or well above 5000ft. I recently set everything up at sea level. Entered everything into Zero Angle. Then went up to my hunting area at 5200ft. Entered the new conditions at high elevation. I put Clay Pigeons across a canyon from me all the way out to 300-550yards. In all different locations and distances. All I had to do was range the Clays. Input the yardage into 4DOF. And I was literally hitting every single Clay on 1st round impacts.
I know for a fact I could do it out further if I wanted. But I wanted to stay within reasonable hunting distance for my bullet and caliber that I am using. I'm a true believer in 4DOF and Zero Angle. Long as you enter all the data as accurate as you can be. It works.
According to the Customer Service Manager of a major rifle scope manufacturer, the most common problem with scopes that customers send in for repair is turret adjustments that have been maxed out. Perhaps how to correct this problem can be addressed in a future episode. I also enjoyed the comment on sighting a hunting rifle for its cold bore POI since a single, cold bore shot is often the only one you get. Great video and podcast.
Good point.
In the case of someone sending in for turret repair because the revolutions were at max, what distance was the shooter dialing? Most scopes can benefit, especially for long range, with a 20 or 40 or 50 MOA rail. Especially canted.
So, on my 7 PRC, I have a zero rail for hunting. But I also have a 20 for longer distances if that becomes a necessity. Using a rail that has more than zero MOA gives you back some clicks.
Also, I bet most scope warranties are the result of two problems. Loctite on the screws. It throws off the measurement of torque. And plenty are over-torqued and it inhibits or damages the internal mechanisms because the tube is being squeezed.
I understand some very serious shooters use shims for elevation adjustments and scope bases with windage adjustment screws to keep scope crosshairs aligned with the optical center of the scope. Of course this assumes the crosshairs were set at the optical center at the factory. @@ronws2007
Yes, establishing a long-distance zero usually requires a scope base with a given amount of MOA "tilt" so the elevation adjustments don't max out. But what do you do when the windage adjustment maxes out when shooting at any distance? Leupold Standard Bases include windage adjustments screws that can be used to remedy the problem, even though some claim they're unreliable. Never had them fail on me. Others recommend simply swapping the front and rear rings. @@ronws2007
Leveling of a scope to the rifle is not always so cut and dry and the turrets are not always squared with the reticle as mentioned,I have an old Lohman padded sight vise that is an excellent tool which allows you to adjust your crosshairs to the bullet hole or your shot group with no gun movement and saves you on ammo,I throw a lead shot bag on top of the base for solid stability.Good talk,Thank’s Hornady 👍
I really do appreciate these podcasts, informative and enjoyable. My local range has 50 and 100 yard rifle lanes and I've always started off a new rifle, barrel or optic at 50. It's just easier to get on target and after a few shots you can move back to 100 and finish getting it dialed in
I do the same bore sight but then first shot at 25 yards, and know I should be about ~1.5" low.
I do same thing. Works perfectly
I use targets with little inch squares over the entire paper. Makes life sooooooo much easier.
But I love those Leupold bases where you can roughly adjust the windage with the bases before you even start to play with the scopes windage.
Your podcasts are extremely informative and I have really enjoyed them. I especially geek out on the reloading / dispersion / sighting in episodes.
I would really like to hear a podcast relating to LE rifles / AR rifles… 5.56 / 300 blk rifles / ammo / sighting in distances. (36 yard / 50 yard / 100 yard zeros) etc
Most of your videos relate to benchrest shooting and I would really like to hear how you apply this to red dot shooting. (Sighting in / dispersion / accuracy)
Additionally talking about SBR rifles / diminished bullet performance / etc.
Thank you!
Best part of my week!!!
I level, locktight, boresite, wait 24 hours, then start out at 25 or 50 yards off the bench.
If you don’t have the fancy acoustic targets hands down the best target analysis tool
For the 10-25 shot dot drill is “On Target” for your pc. No calipers or spreadsheet needed. It will create a virtual composite group with your group center and give you your exact offset from POA in mil or moa along with all the statistical analysis you ever wanted. There are 2 versions. You have to get the more expensive one. It’s like $25 license fee. Well worth it.
5:05 Exactly what I've been preaching: if you know you don't hold the rifle straight, it's far better to level the rifle to gravity than to level to the rifle and then hold everything catawampus!
A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away; when I was just a wee lad, I had zero knowledge of "stuff". But, I would think and devise my best solution. With a 1960/70 something, Remington.22 long rifle called the "Score Master" (real name from Remington), I drilled a hole in a spent case, tied kite string through the hole, out the barrel and to a nail, at what seemed like at least 100 yds, (probably more like 150', but I was pretty sure 😂
Then I tried my very best to "center that string to the inside of the bore 🤣. Adjusted the x hairs of the premium, tasco that I got from K-mart (possibly a blue light special), and commenced laying down heavy fire, into the center of a Dixie cup that was nailed to the tree, that previously had the string tied to it.. Guess what happened 😉
That scope was an absolutely pure, POS‼️😤 That thing moved around like a swing set with a fat kid on it 🤦♂️
That is when I learned a valuable lesson about quality. I probably didn't mess with that thing again for 20 years, but I still have the rifle and I still have the scope; but they haven't been together for a very long time 🤙
I like to bore sight at night in the dark. I set up a small red LED light at a distance then align my scope 2 inches high. Years ago at my first home I had a tower with a red light on top approximately 3 miles away . I set my rifle in a stand with bolt removed and lined my bore and scope using shims to get the proper height. At that distance I set my scope and bore dead on. When I first get to the range I’ll shoot a clay pigeon at 100 on a Sandy hill instead of paper. A spotter can easily see where I hit . I then adjust my scope till I hit my target then go to paper.
46:53 I use silver sheet metal screws on a sunny day for my thermal. I put one in my target for an aiming point, shoot a 3-5 shot group, put the second one in the middle of my group, then move my reticle from point of aim to point of impact.
Good tip!
I think the thing that has really clicked with me the most since I started playing with 4DOF is the fact that the rifle zero is not, in fact a zero. The likelihood of my statistically significant 30 round group being exactly a multiple of my 1/4 MOA clicks away from my point of aim is about zero. I have to be comfortable knowing that my impacts will be off from my point of aim, but with 4DOF I know how far off so I can dial in as close as my turrets will get me and call my shots. So far as sighting in is concerned for shooting, I live in Maine so hunting is a close range event in most situations and there are very few rifle clubs that have more than 100 to 300 yards. I know of two with 600 yard ranges, but shooting there would involve joining the club and for me, travelling long distances just to shoot on my days off. You guys are wicked lucky and I know you all know how blessed your are to have your jobs. I guess I was born in the wrong state...
Y'all need to get into the field for something like this.
With factory rifles and factory ammunition, I learned to always shoot at least a three shot group and adjust to the center of that group. I feel completely confident in my custom to adjust with one shot if I feel like the shot broke clean
I have a horror story for you. I was just getting into shooting. I had an ar pattern rifle and I bought a cheap $100 NC Star 1-5 scope. I mounted it as best I knew I zeroed it. Next time I went shooting with a friend. We set up at 100 yards and begin to shoot. Our target was printed on a standard sheet of paper. I shot five rounds: miss after miss. The last round nicked the top of the sheet. So i hung up 4 sheets in a square and aimed at the center of them. Now it was hittin high and a whole sheet of paper to the right. I go to adjust the scope and I feel the scope move. It was so wobbly I could see it tip back and forth. I took it off and put on a carry handle iron sight. Buy good scopes and good mounts.
Excellent '' Luv this channel '' 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Initial bore sight at 25 yards about 1.5 inches low will put me about 1 inch high at 100 with a magnum caliber probably close to center at 300 yards not sure about that. My results at the range match you guys perfectly. That method works for me. Nice show
Right on
I bore sight at 25 yards with no problem. Measure scope height and adjust laser and cross hair to match at 25 yards you can roughly adjust for bullet-drop at your intended zero distance
Much needed information. 1 problem is people but use the right fittings or they don't screw the laser boresighter all the down. Sometimes it's both, but good info nonetheless. 🦌🍽
Great pod cast. I tried 3 times to get the ballistic app. After entering information, then click SIGN IN, Each time it came back YOU ARE NOW LOGGED OUT? That being said my rifles,shot guns and pistols ARE, FUELED BY HORNADY!
Rifle zeroing tips:
1-Don't use a standard target with a black center. From 100 yards you can't see the impacts. Buy a large target, but attach it to the target frame backwards so you have a nice, clean white/beige background. Then add a 1-2" dot in the center as your aiming point. That large target will probably cost you less 2 rounds of your rifle ammo.
2-When zeroing a hunting rifle, don't quit when you THINK you're zeroed. You need to let the barrel get cold. In most applications, you'll be shooting at game with a cold bore. Wait until the next shooting cycle to allow your barrel time to cool down. One shot, one kill.
3-Pencil thin hunting rifle barrels (and carbon fiber barrels) have a small number of shots before they heat up and start acting squirrely. You're only going to get 5-10 shots before you need to let the barrel cool down.
4-To zero an AR platform rifle, remove the BCG, then pivot the upper. Use the Caldwell Turret to hold the AR's upper horizontal while you bore sight. Prop the front leg of the turret up on a wood stand so the lower will hang down out of the way while you to look down the barrel at the target. Once you've got your crosshairs close, put your AR rifle back together and start shooting. This can easily be done at 100 yards. Works for RDOs too.
5-As they mentioned in the video, do not make adjustments after one shot. You need to see at a pattern of at least 2-3 shots before you start tweaking your scope's turrets. I've seen guys at the range spend over an hour chasing every previous shot with adjustments.
Could you guys do an episode on the RCM cartridges? And are you ever going to do a run of ammo or brass again?
I learned so much since listening to your podcasts @Hornady Manufacturing!
I have a question though regarding mean radius. Since gyroscopic stability is a thing and certain bullets, like the ELD-X for example, need a few hundred meters to stabilize perfectly, what impact will a yawing bullet have on a target at 100, 200 and/or 300 m? It must affect group size/mean radius at each distance, right? If you say zero at 100 m and you now engage a target at lets say 200 m, will your previously zeroed rifle still be perfectly on target?
I boresight mine at 25yds, get it balls on and within 2 inches every time at the 100yd. I now zero my rifle 50yds with the ballistics of 6.5creed eld-x zeros back out at 200yds
i think it's great to point out the inexpensive package deals. Because i would guess a large percentage of people buy those packages at least once in a lifetime!!
Also, to repeat what Jayden said in the group size episodes 50 & 52, you need to zero for the job. So, a hunter may shoot no more than 3 shots and the first one is cold bore. You don't fire a fouling shot at your game animal. So, for that, shoot no more than 3 shots and make adjustments and then let the barrel cool completely.
As opposed to competitions where you may shoot many rounds. In that case, yes, shoot more groups and adjust from that. That way, you are always within 1 MOA of where you need to be.
Another humbling thing - watch the Texas Plinking channel and he has a monthly challenge to shoot 1 MOA at 1,000 yards. He has a 10 inch steel. Also some 5 inch steel. If you hit the 10 inch on the first shot, you get a gold coin. You have ten shots. If you hit within those 10 shots, you get a silver coin. If you get a hit within those 10 shots, you get a chance to hit the 5 inch steel, a .5 MOA target.
These people have great weapons and great optics and hand loads. And get humbled. Mostly because of the wind but just variations. However, wind can gust up or down in the range and throw off the elevation.
This is or should be a LOT less complicated than most people make it. I shoot .25-'06, 7 mm Rem Mag, and.30-06 for deer and elk in Arizona. I figure out the MPBR I want, varies with caliber but I stretch for example to 315 for 7mm, but with all those calibers, back up and check your zero on Hornady calculator for 50 yard trajectory for your chosen MPBR, it is almost always at + 1.4 "" to 1.7 "" at 50 yards. Shoot at 50 and save some walking. Get dialed in at 50 yards at the + inches that relate to your chosen MPBR. Done. Then you just stalk game as close as possible within your MPBR and point and shoot, or adjust a little Kentucky elevation at further ranges. It's that simple and has always worked for me. Elk at 471 with 7 MM - hold top of shoulder, dead elk. MORE important is to shoot a LOT once you confirm that zero, not from a bench. In field conditions, prone off backpack, standing off a stick or tripod, leaning on a tree, just offhand, whatever, at the distance you are likely to find game. The place my buddies and I zero down in Southern Arizona is in a beautiful canyon. We recheck our 50 yard zeros and then there is a bowling ball sized white granite rock on the hillside above at 321 laser checked yards. Zero at 50 for chosen MPBR, tag that rock several times offhand, prone, off stick, etc. and you're good to go. Don't worry about barrel heat, cold bore, blah blah. You don't have time to ponder in the field and it makes almost no difference in the real word. Leave the bench, shoot as you shoot in the field. Tight group benches are meaningless. Hit the 321 rock offhand, or keep practicing. And there is no "letting it cool." If you are PRC shooter, maybe, but just get out and shoot some more. It's not rocket science.
I zero my 6.5 creedmoor at 25 yards and it is on again at 250 3” low at 300! Then my moa subtensions are 400 600 750 900 will handle every thing I need to do!
9:16 I got my first ever scope, NF NXS 3.5-15 and couldnt hit the broadside of a barn. I didnt think to boresight and just kept sending rounds into god knows where. Luckily Iwas using m193 and not match grade ammo
Perhaps a little deep in the weeds for a practical endeavor. Tough to pull the bolt on a semi, pump, lever gun. With the huge objective bells and high rings, the old rule of thumb, on at 25 yds., good to 200, is out the window. Pre shot prep... couple patches down the bore, lens cloth, check ring screws, etc. Inspect brass while waiting for the barrel to cool.
Thank you !!!
You bet!
I usually hold back my subscriptions but i watch y'all alot and you responded quick which surprised me so props to y'all 😊
Many BC based ballistic apps available on the market also facilitate “zero angle”. They call it “zeroing weather” where you specify the temperature, station pressure, and humidity that was present at time of sighting and the app locks in the zero angle based on those conditions. I use an inexpensive Kestrel drop D3 to accurately measure these environmental variables. With these apps if you set “zero weather matches current conditions” then your zero angle is not locked in and the app assumes your zero angle is continuously variable with changing environmental conditions. IMO if you are shooting within MPBR it does not matter, but if you are reaching out beyond that or say beyond 300m… you definitely need to lock in your zero angle.
Cheers!
That's not the same thing. They are simply changing the zero based on your atmospherics and basing all that off of your BC which could be off. With zero angle you aren't zeroing to a group. You are zeroing to the bullets launch angle.
@@AnthonysOutdoors Perhaps... Thanks for the tip... I do not have access to the Strelok Pro and Chairgun Elite program algorithms so it is impossible for me to verify if your statemement is technically correct. What I can do though is verify that I have been getting splendid results with these apps. What I do is use Applied ballistics with custom drag models to calculate a solution, then I run a parallel solution with Chairgun and true its G7 BC solution to match the custom drag model trajectory and use that G7 BC. So far that has worked tremendously to achieve first round hits at range... Then I shoot validation groups at range to validate my BC... The G7 solutions trued to custom drag model solutions seem to be very reliable. Cheers!
How beneficial is it for me to use 4DOF or a calculator if I don't normally shoot out past 300 to 500 yards?
thank you
Welcome!
I would love to know the shooting app you keep speaking of?
I shoot a lot of flat fast rounds and just get them 1" high at 100. I shoot groups of 3 but once I think I'm good I will shoot 3 or more groups of 3 at the same target to get a good idea of how the gun is really going to shoot. Then I chronograph in the event I will shoot long range. Then chronograph again another cold day to get a couple of velocity data sets at a temperature spread. Then I go to the computer and build a ballistic table to my reticle and go verify and adjust. I'm usually good to go to 200 yards easy and can hold over on the reticle for 300-400. 500 is out there pretty damn far and a lot can happen. You owe the animal a quick clean kill so don't shoot beyond your skill.
A lot of scopes will not adjust out to 700 yards, and then dial back to zero. I wasted a lot of time and ammo proving different scopes were not up to the job.
Thanks I watched the whole thing I don't think it did very much for anyone just starting to shoot the way you ended it was dead on having just a few good ideas and concepts maybe down the road more of a actual Hands-On course depending upon the subject I say that because I will be listening vs. Watching if something's brought to my attention that I can go back and see I will do that personally now I think that's very important there are a lot of people that are strictly Hands-On. learning
6:30 Point the rifle at a street sign. Then sit back and wait for the police to arrive.
The ballistics calculator comes up as Ford Off under Close Caption. How do you spell the actual ballistics calculator?
Hornady Ballistics with 4DOF
The hornady group analysis feature is great, but, it is throwing erroneous results when you specify your target distance in meters.
Y’all need to fix that Hornady!:
1m is 1.0936yd and
1moa at 100yd is 1.047”
so 1moa at 100m is 1.0936x1.047= 1.145”
The Hornady group analysis app is missing the 1.0936 factor to convert yards to meters so it is erring 9.36% high when reporting group size in moa for target distances input in meters.
Question: is a 100 yard zero 100 yards from the shooter (my eye)? 100 yards from the muzzle? What if I’m using a suppressor?
Where the bullet is released from the barrel
I looked up that camo long sleeve top and not available 🧐
Often what I will do is shoot into the sand bank behind the 100 yard targets to get an initial rough zero.
#InMilesWeTrust
Bore eye sighting a rifle? How you do that?
The dude abides
winner
Great show but I thought you didn’t stress the importance of carrying a rifle while hunting set for maximum point blank range? I watch a lot of hunting videos and see the hunter wasting time adjusting his scope for a 2 or 3 hundred yard shot and possibly losing his best shot opportunity fiddling with the scope! Set the scope for max point blank range and minimum magnification and your good from 30 yards to at least 300.
The App doesn’t even start up
That video would have been even cooler if you went thru with one rifle
Well first off, are you recommending that those interested in shooting long range be buying low price package deal rifles?
If not then why be talking about it?
What is considered to be long range?
Why be discussing 100 yards other than for zeroing?
As for using an existing hit for zeroing, have you never heard of the one shot zero method?
Does that method work for long range shooting?
I call BS on sightin at 25 yards and shooting a couple shots and walk it in to the target. I honestly expected more of you Hornady. It’s real simple bore sight at 25 yards don’t move the rifle adjust the scope reticle to your intended point of impact fire one shot then put your rifle and reticle back on to your original point of impact, don’t move it and adjust the reticle to your previous shot’s hole in the paper. Now shoot it at 100 yards and zero doing the same method. Four shots and you should be on target.
They literally explained why that's a bad idea lol.
@@AnthonysOutdoors I dont agree with them. Been doing it my way for 40yrs…never a problem…and conserve ammo too.
I may be crazy but hunters and precision shooters want two very different things from there zero.. precision rifles absolutely should be zeroed at a fixed distance like a 100 yards. Most hunting rifles you would want to use the near zero to fully utilize your MPBR out to 3-400 yards without making any scope adjustments.. unless of course your one of the few ppl who hunts at 500 yards plus…. Either way strelock still spits out all the numbers….
This is why most hunters make terrible shots. Call it what it is, hold off and Kentucky windage. Your using mpbr then you better be using a range finder to take out the slack that's inherent woth mpbr. And if you're using a rangefinder than you have time to properly adjust your scope.
@@AnthonysOutdoors I’m out east where anything you shoot is likely gonna be less than 100-200 yards away. It doesn’t matter here…. If your hunting open plains or out west sure. Then I can see taking time to range it and get all your dope. Out here when a running coyote pops up cause the dogs chased them out ur not gonna range it And dial your scope… At that point you wanna know u shoot a 4 inch circle to 300 plus yards and nothing else really matters..
You know there's Guns you can't look down the bore to site in right like a Browning BLR, Remington 760 pump not everyone uses a damn bolt action
The podcasts are too long for me to listen to all of them. Anyway we can do shorts or cuts of the podcast?
Dont be jealous.. just cause you can hike miles on public land and not see an animal!
The difference between a guy harvesting game and a trophy hunter is harvesters will head shot for the most humane kill possible
Trophy hunters risk having to track their game.
most of you young men are way too cocky,and all ways seem to have A long 700 yard kill with only one shot.I would say very few of you are able to do it
talk talk talk talk for such a simple subject. Bye.
Sighting in. Project appleseed. IMC (inches, minutes ,clicks) measure the target in inches convert to minutes (moa), take the moa and covert to clicks . Bang zero in a couple shots after bore sight.
At a guess, you are an instructor for Project Appleseed. Sez someone who would answer to Wingwrench...
Appleseed was iron sights
Keep those mics further from your mouth. Lots of slimy mouth noise coming through
ONE SHOT AND ADJUST IF YOU ARE JACK REACHER ON ROBERT DUVALL s RANGE
winner
winner