I'm sorry to hear that you have to partake in the content creator carousel with that guy. Yikes... Edit: That being said, I respect your guff and thick skin with regards to the matter. I wish you and some other underrated content creators of this game the best. Much success to all of you.
Nah he’s got a point, the healing beam should have a heal beam and an attack beam that locks onto enemy players and damages them while you heal your teammates.
No cause it's a trade you can either be offensive or defensive not both For example the mesh shields for heavy wouldn't it be op if u could shoot and hold up a shield.
@@Pizza_Dough1 it’s not even that op it’s kinda trash, to balance it out we’re gonna make it so that the attacking beam can target enemies through walls for good measure.
I truly appreciate the shoutout! I agree the majority of the time (while some criticisms are valid), players that are the loudest on social media want the game to conform to their play style rather than learning the class a little more or trying other classes to gain a better perspective on the changes they are asking for. The consequences of that change, how it affects other classes, as well as the class itself. In the case of nukes for instance, if the devs were to completely destroy the mechanic right off the rip. There will be a void that will most definitely be filled by other classes. Recon and invis are the best examples of this. It’s not that they took forever to nerf it, because they were making changes towards the mechanic in consecutive patches leading up to season 2. They had to make sure the change did not compromise the use of heavy, while also ensuring that the mechanic is not as dominant as it once was. It’s more or less a game of 4D chess where the devs are balancing on the fine line of competitive and casual. Which to put it in short, will take time. While there is always room to improve, there is no better dev team out there to tackle the task. We just need to let them cook! I don’t want to type out a novel, but thank you for putting things I also wanted to say but couldn’t really articulate in the moment. Great video man! Subbed!
Yeah The Finals subreddit has some really really awful takes and thinks the game is horribly unbalanced. Like they have no clue what the hell they’re talking about. I even created r/TheFinalsShitTakes to grab the most ridiculous ones.
Hey there, I'm one of the lead moderators for the subreddit, a fair share of posts do get removed, but we let the community do the voting, we did add new megathreads for weapon balance and such, and we want to keep improving it, but yeah, there will always be someone ranting, and will checkout your sub sometime
I don't agree that the game is FULLY balanced, but I do think a large portion of the complaints in the community are ... uneducated. YES the game has issues, there is arguably no game with perfect balancing, but the examples you showed are just a fraction of the terrible takes out there 😭its hard to filter out constructive convos about the game balance, so I thank you for starting this dialogue, and Ottr for contributing to it! I hope this is the start of something meaningful
8:12, I'm glad you mentioned this, and it is something that highly I agree upon, we did chat about it too, the game's core micro-play is dynamic adaptability, the faster you are able to think in a situation, the higher up you can go on the enjoyment ladder you described; while people lament "skill issue", I would rather say the accurate term is "stagnated creative expression", there are always counters to what you can do when in a disadvantage. I play on less than ideal hardware, but I'm still ranking up through high platinum, there is more to the game than fighting your opponents, you just have to approach the game with complete acceptance of the idea of a dynamic game. Case in point, many CS pros, when switching to valorant stated how the addition of set styles of utility immediately made the game better in terms of macro play, with how varied it can be, The Finals is currently the peak of them all
Love this! Totally agree. I'm not even good at this game but I play like every day because it's just that fun to play. I can almost always tell what coined me so I don't take being outplayed too personally. love the wave of positive The Finals videos
Definitely, but the timeframes are much shorter in THE FINALS, so advantages and disadvantages don’t last long and can be overcome with skill. In Battlefield they can go on for minutes, which is fine because it suits the ongoing battle theme and the pace of the game much better.
Good takes, creativity is definitely more rewarded in this game than just basic run and shoot! Hope we get tdm, capture the cashbox(capture the flag),etc. for season 3 for casuals to get used to weapons,etc. And not feel so overwhelmed! Maybe then those people would try other game modes
While I love this game and I love this channel, this video is disappointing to me. I don’t believe you’ve built your case that the game is “balanced” on anything else but logical fallacies. Of course everyone’s wishes for balanced aren’t good! But to lump them all together is a hasty generalization. Of course we all aren’t game developers! But to say we can’t have better input as a community in an appeal to authority. The fact of the matter is that when the game released the meta was very different, there have been some very good changes and some very bad ones. My expectations align with what embark originally released as we know it, the “power leak” that’s we’ve been having has caused frustration because the weapons may feel less responsive after they’ve been nerfed hard for months in a row. My expectation is that there’s right balance and not a long period of time where you have a clear advantage in the game. Unfortunately, if you go HMM or HHM, you have a clear advantage over any other team comp for the entirety of the round. There are lots of factors to this, but one is the weak state of the Light and the other is the Heavy having a higher DPS than any gun on the medium! I’m not trying to make specific calls for specific changes, but I am pointing out that a blanket statement like “the game is balanced and your frustration is a you problem” is not helpful at all nor is it true. -Sincerely, a diamond player.
Thank you for this. I haven’t played ranked since the Beta, but i got pretty high Plat back then. The fact that when I play Heavy i feel like i can just do whatever I want, and play without my team and still win is enough to tell me there’s something a bit off with the balancing. I don’t even know the recoil patterns for the heavy guns and still win 1v1s with ease.
Haha I see myself at 1:07 saying Lights are OP. I was being sarcastic and mimicing the people on the Discord server but hey at least I'm in a video lol
Cody's comment at 9:13 is exactly why I think the finals needs a tdm mode. It's simple, extremely noob friendly, and can give players like him a familiar, balanced environment where he can learn the game and feel immediate success when he does what he knows best, killing other players. I think it's frustrating for new players to hop into the finals, get a load of kills but still lose because they didn't play obj. We need a tdm mode 100%
so why is it that lights and mediums can face off with no problem, but when heavies get involved lights are obsoleted, and the only useful mediums are the ones pocket mercy-ing the heavies, the very presence of heavies in their current state literally means you are not allowed to have any other playstyle other than also going heavies with a healer.
Well said man. I noticed this communal pattern, if you like, right out of the gate with "the movement" incident/the resetting of the fov slider at launch. As with any skill, you have to put in the time to develop it and work to improve it. Hope you're doing well! Cheers.
It's interesting the amount of people I meet that have to win to have fun. Like, unless you are playing competitive, who cares. To quote Ilya Bryzagalov: "It's only a game. Why you heff to be mad"
One reason to not listen to 99% of these requests is to spcetate 99% of their gameplay. You will get medium mains who have never shot a gun other than the FCAR come up to you and say that The Finals is a E-sports game similar to CSGO and messing with "useless features" like map destruction is "throwing" and anything beyond shooting people is a waste of time, and these people will try to dictate any sort of update that gets added to the game. Then they will play the game for themselves and will spend 25 seconds navigating a building to go one floor up when there are 15 different on-map canisters on every room and then get shot by an RPG through 5 cracked walls and ALT+F4 on the spot. Words cannot quite explain how boring it is to watch this game because 99% of players try to play it like CoD, 100% of light players are better off playing slop like xDefiant instead. Why bother with a game at all if you're gonna not learn its deeper loop and plateau within a month and get miffed at everything cause the strat you wrongfully think should work is obviously not working. By extent, in my experience coming way back from the Alpha test, quite literally the only complaint I have with the game, and I've said this under "HazedNConfused"s video also, is the fact that respawn timers are individual but how their reset is shared. Infact I'll just paste it as is cause I think I worded it well as is. 'I want to PLAY the video game, and if my own teammate's clashing playstyle gets him killed and costs him a measly 15 sec respawn timer whilst mine is extended to a total of 30 because THEY didnt want to care about me, it's infuriating. Not because a team wipe drags us closer to a loss but because I don't GET TO play the game.' If I'm forced to watch someone else play The Finals for 30 seconds straight when I queued exclusively to PLAY The Finals, I do not wish to be stuck watching someone I do not like the style of play the game I'm supposed to be a player in. If this were an apt 15 seconds as per a part of the game given punishment for individually underperforming, I'd be fine but a teamwipe penalty is nonsensical in non-competitive modes.
Great video, I very much agree. I think the problem is that not all weapons are as easy to use as stock. Even though on paper they might look the same/cost the same. I think the game should put a 'difficulty to use' stat on the weapon, much like Counter Strike has done.
I think maining the dagger really highlights this. When I play movement correctly I can get behind and wipe teams of heavies and mediums in diamond lobbies. There are also engagements where playing close doesn’t work and I die without providing my team with any damage.
Any gamemode I play theres always one guy that leaves as soon as it isn't going "well". Plenty of times sticking through the game to last minute clutch.
@@jordankelly4684 You clearly don't understand the issue, you can solo kill a team with any load-out if you are better than the enemies, the issue is the light classes advantages don't out-way the disadvantages. Sacrificing health for a little more movement speed in an objective based game isn't worth it. At some point you have to stand your ground and both medium and heavy out class light when in direct fights like this. (Which you can force because of the objective) The cannon part of the light's kit is incredibly situational and due to the nature of the game, this feast or famine play-style makes light objectively worse than the other classes. Consistency is the key to winning and climbing.
A really good point I think you kind of imply but don't really mention is that imbalance isn't necessarily bad game design. It's just a part of game design that needs to be accounted for. In actuality, in many cases, it ends up being a part of creating fun and emergent gameplay. An example that I think applies here is regarding how balance works in fighting games. The first Street Fighter is one of the most balanced games out there, but because of that there is no variety to the fights and it is generally pretty boring. SF2 on the other hand introduced a ton of new and interesting characters and mechanics, and a ton of imbalance along with it, creating one of the first truly great fighting games and defining what the term "fighting game" meant for years to come. (Core-A Gaming's video "Analysis: Why We Should Buff More Than Nerf" discussed this and other relevant points, definitely recommend a look.) I play The Finals surprisingly similarly to how I play fighting games. It's a game about creating advantages, recognizing enemy weaknesses, and capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes (hell, the Light is literally designed to have to take unfair fights as a direct extension of this). I lab strategies and combos just like a fighting game as well, and I've found that there are very few non-viable choices for building a loadout around (despite what talking heads discussing "the meta" seem to think). It feels incredibly well balanced right now to me, especially considering just how many variables the devs have to account for with the interactivity of the game's sandbox. I almost never find myself thinking that something was truly unfair when I sit down to look at a loss or a death, and I feel there's almost always a counter-play that could have been used. No game is perfect sure, and The Finals is no exception, but damn is it tightly designed.
In my mind The Finals tag line is “Adapt or Die, Literally” This is true both of the emergent gameplay with in a battle and with in the Macro balancing of the game. Either find a new strat given the current realities of the game or get destroyed over and over while complaining that your old strat doesn’t work. Only you can decide which is more fun, but my advice is to change it up. You’ll have fun learning a new style and it’ll help you learn how to adapt next time it’s required. This also translates well to real life.
Personally for me it's not the balance, it's the technical stuff that makes me question myself why am i even playing. Like with recent Defibrillator bug when the statue hitbox can be in another place. Or a light with a sword and emote cancellation bug that deletes you in seconds. Also the third-party'ing is really big issue that doesn't have any skill curve, you just need to pray that you won't be finished by another team after your initial fight.
It's pretty dang balanced in my opinion. There are only a few changes I'd make to melee weps, but outside of that I like where the game is now. Except M shotty. That thing is weird with range.
okay but they need to buff the grenade launchers a little, right? I think almost everything else is fine though :3 just for fun I'd wanna say what I think they should do: give Med Launcher +1 ammo. give Hvy Launcher a bigger explosion hitbox and an immune to aps turret.
The explosion hitbox is fine. The only change I particularly want on heavy gl is an arc indicator when aiming, as there is no reason to aim down sights with it and I think that's a wasted opportunity to raise the skill floor of the gun.
I’m willing to let embark practice and make mistakes. The game is a few months old and not only has embark never done anything remotely like this but the game specifics are pretty damn unique amongst the industry. They are forging new ground, so it’s natural they’ll make mistakes and time to. Get things right.
I generally agree, the game is really well balanced. It's usually pretty easy to know that you either got outskilled or got caught-out playing stupid. For me this makes it easier to not get tilted. But... The changes to melee hit registration in the latest patch feel kinda oppressive. I haven't felt that "there was nothing I could've done to survive that engagement" vibe since the snuke era. But I'm getting it now. 🤷♂️
I pretty much agree I don’t think there needs to me any massive changes to weapons/gadgets at the moment I’ve dabbled in all 3 classes and have def felt op as all 3 I’m at around 240 hours I started as bronze 3 in season 2 and now am gold 1 on the way to plat also there is more then one way to win the game strategy is key for example placing both vaults on in a cash out to force every one to fight and get team wipes so you move up
me and a friend mention how the xp takes too long to gain for gadgets especially considering the possibility that we will keep getting new camos every few seasons
Been trying to say this for so long. People are so whiney with every new patch… I just play the game have fun and if they change something than so be it… the two thing I’m so happy about getting removed are the nukes and recon.. I’m a light main and I think they’re doing a great job with the balancing and still have loads of fun
video is extremely dismissive? Heavy is objectively overtuned, with more kill potential than any other class on top of 350 base health and abilities for more temp hp? I can solo wipe teams extremely fast despite having the most hp in the game as Heavy. not saying the other classes are perfect but. seems a little unbalanced for sure LOL
I agree for the most part but there are definitely some weapons that need buffs. The 3 round burst light pistol, the dagger, KS-23, throwing knives are all too weak. And the light class in general is kind of useless. it does roughly the same DPS as the other classes, has much lower health, and their abilities are very weak. Why does the grapple only have 1 charge for example? And invisibilty has been nerfed so many times its not even worth using anymore. If you play heavy you can use goo which is great for fortifying points, charge and slam to decimate anyone at close range, and the mesh which is literally just an extra 750 health for you and anyone standing behind you. Not to mention the RPG which is just easy damage and dome which is MORE extra health. Medium can heal teammates and revive mid fight. The stun gun was the only thing light had that even approached the power level of the other classes and now it's useless.
i think game is really nice balanced now......i really really pray that devs stop nerf everything. something was needed. but last nerfs is start to be unnecessary....but have to say even last nerfs (cloak and stungun) they are okay still. but please embark stop nerfing 😭
Well said! I had an argument on Reddit about these things including game modes needed to be more creative and bizarre to bring creative scenarios to the game because the core gameplay of Finals is great and doesn't need that much balance. Only ones wants who are complaining about Finals gun balances are the ones that want to see Finals become like Call of Duty or Fortnite or any other generic pop fps. Finals rewards creativity alone side aiming, if you are not good at aiming, it's ok, grab a melee or flamethrower or grenade launcher and kill your enemies in another way. I called Finals creative fps with destruction. Anyone who has problem with the game balance they are not creative for Finals' gameplay.
i main light these days and it's doesn't need too big buff. I would give max 25hp or little faster re-gen but even without them light is really deadly. so does it need buff.... yes and no 😅
@@protoni6996 I agree with you, but I can say with a few hundred hours of gameplay, mostly as light, that if I want to stop dying or actually win I can play medium or heavy and have drastically better results. I’m an average player, and I think there’s something to be said when In ranked 75%+ of the classes played are medium, and the number only goes higher after each tournament round. I would actually love to see the statistics on that. I’m sure it would speak for itself.
I'd say certain weapons do need buff while others would actually be better off as gadgets. Take sniper rifle for example. Using it makes you a burden to your team no matter your skill. Take it to power shift/terminal attack and using sniper no longer puts your entire team in tought position. Same can be said for heavy's grenade launcher. 90% of the time this gun is useless due to its bounching nades and aps rendering you an easy target.
People act so weirdly about this game's balance, and it seems like people are way harder on it than other shooters. First off, in any game with respawns, it's really hard to get that mad at something unless its insanely over powered, which I don't think anything in the finals currently is, because at the very worst, it's about 1 minute of waiting till you get to try again, and second, people seem to think this game should have no learning curve whatsoever, which is just baffling. If someone boots up CS or Siege and gets absolutely destroyed by someone with a few hundred more hours than them in the game they just say it's part of the game and the game is hard, but then people seem to disregard that thinking in the finals and just say "if they killed me then nerf whatever they were using" it's really weird to me since I agree in saying that the finals feels really well balanced, and you can win using almost any loadout as long as you have the skills!
If I play SoloQ ranked and someone pick potential 'throw' picks, I'd say lets have some shits and giggles, there are effective moments in all the randomness, and dare I say, the less reliable a gadget/weapon is, the more fun it is to see it being effective. Meta isn't always the most efficient or effective, its the safest, most forgiving, least offensive; if getting good is repeat practice on the same thing, its repetitive boredom isn't the reason why I play games, that's just work but since 'win a tournament' is no longer a requirement, I'm happy with casual modes and items that don't mean anything to meta, hell, I still find those unfair moments on my side using what is generally trash situational weapon like heavy's GL, just because I made a hole in the wall, suddenly I got an angle for all the campers in the attic and forced them out, or funnel tryhards to a chokepoint. I have my share of time playing an effective light or medium too, its just what type of fun am I going to have that time.
I still am adamant that heavy needs a major nerf. That class controls every game, from easily winning any and every 1 on 1 to completely locking down points with any of their shielding abilities. They are simply too strong. You can't really even argue with me as pro play does not allow more than one Heavy, because if they didn't it would just be 3 Hs on every team...
Heavy is oppressive in the current meta. I got to platinum with medium, I got to diamond fast once I switched to heavy permanently. I get that it can't be perfect, but it still needs some tweaks.
I find this video so ironic with most of your gameplay being with heavy. As a diamond player, I can say with confidence heavy is an outlier, it's just THE FINALS easy mode. 20+ kills near every game and I'm not trying at all. I flex play all classes (Medium and light I prefer) and heavy just makes me feel like a god EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. And I don't even use charge and slam. Having that specialisation alone would just make everything I do twice as easier cause it's that stupid (as you clearly portrayed in some of your clips) but I ain't a scrub so I use mesh shield. Next time tho, as a suggestion, maybe, just maybe, give actual good points on WHY it's balanced rather than telling people to just "get good" cause alot of us ARE good and find this video hilarious, and not in a good way ❤
well... yes... but if you have ever played tf2 you would know that the heavy is kind of the main character. almost every game revolves around him. so yes but also if you have bad teammates then you will lose. that's why heavy heavy heavy is not a meta.
Saying the game is balance and that the dev know what they are doing is a massive joke. Dev listen to the worse take possible and only balance the geme around casual for some reason. For any people who tryhard the game the balance is horrible. Devs look at data without even trying to understand it. You just need to see what they did tl light to undetand how they work. They just want the game to be easy for casual who play 2h a week. They could have focus and try to maintain a good balance around casual and tryhard player. And maybe focus on comp that could bring them visibility throught esport, tournament.... Game is dying sadly due to a poor balance because they listen too much to bad player but everyone is happy because they add cosmetic.... Hope they will finally open their eyes and try to revive the game and focus.more around people who spam a lot the game and want it to be rlly big
Unfortunately I doubt many people in the discord will take this to heart and will continue to spout their opinions and then when the developers actually do it they'll take a 180 and ask for the opposite
I thought that the throwing knives needed a serious buff for a long time until I encountered a skilled knives user. I spent some time with them and now the throwing knives is my main light weapon. The more builds and weapons you work on learning, the better you get at the game as a whole. that's good balance
I think people are taking advantage of the devs because of how they actually listen to the community sometimes feels like the community is running the game and embark is jus listening which is good and bad
@@mattmanz1 yes. unfortunately in the video he said the game is balanced just how the devs want it, and that we dont have the knowledge to decide what needs re balancing. embark recently said to us that they don't know how to balance melee perfectly, and they want our input on the recent melee changes. this statement directly refutes his claims in the video.
Starting at 0:47 half of those examples were sarcastic and joke remarks about the game- can we not make jokes in the discord anymore man? lmfao Edit: Fixed a typo. but might as well add this spoiler, dude's got a nothing burger video that's just a really long and complicated way of saying "Skill Issue" while playing mostly Heavy.
U might forgot about solo ranking , its the worst experience possible u get urself into….the frustration of playing well but ur team isnt teaming the frustration of popping off but still losing to shit players whiffing their shots but they running HHM while u have little light monkey on ur team sniping on crane forcing u to coin after getting jumbed on by two heavies slapping rpg on your forhead 🗿shit players get diamond since they full stack while u hard stuck at plat 2 because u perma 1v3 like u supposed to be 3 in 1 guy who does it lol
the game is great but a real shame that only 15 people play it. the game fell off in player numbers because there are no overpriced anime skins, no BR mode, the game is too fast paced for controller kids
Content creator Ottr has made a reaction video to this video, if you’d like to watch it: ua-cam.com/video/NUB-mUhydno/v-deo.htmlsi=BGP1lcaQmYeoM_yH
Yea…. But ottr is prejudice against Heavies and wishes all thier guns and gadgets get nerfed. So his opinions arnt valid cause hes a light/Medium SJW
@@Maximusls2400 which is funny cus i main light (i come from doom eternal btw) and i crush other players
@@Maximusls2400 Because light and medium are the classes that require skill not just huddling up with your 2 shields and barricades on top of a roof 💀
I'm sorry to hear that you have to partake in the content creator carousel with that guy. Yikes...
Edit: That being said, I respect your guff and thick skin with regards to the matter. I wish you and some other underrated content creators of this game the best. Much success to all of you.
I unsubscribed to ottr a while ago, something about him is just ew.. always complaining about teammates and just to cocky
As a Medium main, that guy asking for you to be able to shoot while healing CANNOT be serious 💀
Nah he’s got a point, the healing beam should have a heal beam and an attack beam that locks onto enemy players and damages them while you heal your teammates.
@@Championclips15I agree, it should also increase the damage of your teammates
No cause it's a trade you can either be offensive or defensive not both
For example the mesh shields for heavy wouldn't it be op if u could shoot and hold up a shield.
@@Pizza_Dough1 it’s not even that op it’s kinda trash, to balance it out we’re gonna make it so that the attacking beam can target enemies through walls for good measure.
@@Championclips15ahh yes being able to heal your m8s while doing damage yourself to enemies is so balanced 😂
I truly appreciate the shoutout! I agree the majority of the time (while some criticisms are valid), players that are the loudest on social media want the game to conform to their play style rather than learning the class a little more or trying other classes to gain a better perspective on the changes they are asking for. The consequences of that change, how it affects other classes, as well as the class itself.
In the case of nukes for instance, if the devs were to completely destroy the mechanic right off the rip. There will be a void that will most definitely be filled by other classes. Recon and invis are the best examples of this. It’s not that they took forever to nerf it, because they were making changes towards the mechanic in consecutive patches leading up to season 2. They had to make sure the change did not compromise the use of heavy, while also ensuring that the mechanic is not as dominant as it once was.
It’s more or less a game of 4D chess where the devs are balancing on the fine line of competitive and casual. Which to put it in short, will take time.
While there is always room to improve, there is no better dev team out there to tackle the task. We just need to let them cook!
I don’t want to type out a novel, but thank you for putting things I also wanted to say but couldn’t really articulate in the moment. Great video man! Subbed!
Thanks, I appreciate the comments and the sub! Yes, we just need to let them cook - exactly!
Yeah The Finals subreddit has some really really awful takes and thinks the game is horribly unbalanced. Like they have no clue what the hell they’re talking about. I even created r/TheFinalsShitTakes to grab the most ridiculous ones.
Also want to add I am D1-D2 in ranked. The vocal minority do not understand the game and like you said, adaptability is key.
@@BoomTownTTV It's not just the vocal minority, it's the majority of people who have heard of, played or talked about the game.
Hey there, I'm one of the lead moderators for the subreddit, a fair share of posts do get removed, but we let the community do the voting, we did add new megathreads for weapon balance and such, and we want to keep improving it, but yeah, there will always be someone ranting, and will checkout your sub sometime
i joined that sub😂
Fr some people are just so bad they find excuses in things that aren't even unbalanced.
I don't agree that the game is FULLY balanced, but I do think a large portion of the complaints in the community are ... uneducated. YES the game has issues, there is arguably no game with perfect balancing, but the examples you showed are just a fraction of the terrible takes out there 😭its hard to filter out constructive convos about the game balance, so I thank you for starting this dialogue, and Ottr for contributing to it! I hope this is the start of something meaningful
8:12, I'm glad you mentioned this, and it is something that highly I agree upon, we did chat about it too, the game's core micro-play is dynamic adaptability, the faster you are able to think in a situation, the higher up you can go on the enjoyment ladder you described; while people lament "skill issue", I would rather say the accurate term is "stagnated creative expression", there are always counters to what you can do when in a disadvantage.
I play on less than ideal hardware, but I'm still ranking up through high platinum, there is more to the game than fighting your opponents, you just have to approach the game with complete acceptance of the idea of a dynamic game.
Case in point, many CS pros, when switching to valorant stated how the addition of set styles of utility immediately made the game better in terms of macro play, with how varied it can be, The Finals is currently the peak of them all
Now THIS is the finals video I've been waiting for. Thank you. Agreed 100%.
Love this! Totally agree. I'm not even good at this game but I play like every day because it's just that fun to play. I can almost always tell what coined me so I don't take being outplayed too personally. love the wave of positive The Finals videos
The paper, rock, scissors gameplay we have come to expect from Battlefield is wildly apparent in The Finals
Definitely, but the timeframes are much shorter in THE FINALS, so advantages and disadvantages don’t last long and can be overcome with skill. In Battlefield they can go on for minutes, which is fine because it suits the ongoing battle theme and the pace of the game much better.
Good takes, creativity is definitely more rewarded in this game than just basic run and shoot!
Hope we get tdm, capture the cashbox(capture the flag),etc. for season 3 for casuals to get used to weapons,etc. And not feel so overwhelmed! Maybe then those people would try other game modes
This brought back core memories of sneaking up on tanks with C4 in BF lol
While I love this game and I love this channel, this video is disappointing to me. I don’t believe you’ve built your case that the game is “balanced” on anything else but logical fallacies. Of course everyone’s wishes for balanced aren’t good! But to lump them all together is a hasty generalization. Of course we all aren’t game developers! But to say we can’t have better input as a community in an appeal to authority. The fact of the matter is that when the game released the meta was very different, there have been some very good changes and some very bad ones. My expectations align with what embark originally released as we know it, the “power leak” that’s we’ve been having has caused frustration because the weapons may feel less responsive after they’ve been nerfed hard for months in a row. My expectation is that there’s right balance and not a long period of time where you have a clear advantage in the game. Unfortunately, if you go HMM or HHM, you have a clear advantage over any other team comp for the entirety of the round. There are lots of factors to this, but one is the weak state of the Light and the other is the Heavy having a higher DPS than any gun on the medium! I’m not trying to make specific calls for specific changes, but I am pointing out that a blanket statement like “the game is balanced and your frustration is a you problem” is not helpful at all nor is it true.
-Sincerely, a diamond player.
Thank you for this.
I haven’t played ranked since the Beta, but i got pretty high Plat back then.
The fact that when I play Heavy i feel like i can just do whatever I want, and play without my team and still win is enough to tell me there’s something a bit off with the balancing. I don’t even know the recoil patterns for the heavy guns and still win 1v1s with ease.
Mediums not being able to remove defib from their loadouts screams unblanace for the class already.
Haha I see myself at 1:07 saying Lights are OP. I was being sarcastic and mimicing the people on the Discord server but hey at least I'm in a video lol
Cody's comment at 9:13 is exactly why I think the finals needs a tdm mode. It's simple, extremely noob friendly, and can give players like him a familiar, balanced environment where he can learn the game and feel immediate success when he does what he knows best, killing other players. I think it's frustrating for new players to hop into the finals, get a load of kills but still lose because they didn't play obj. We need a tdm mode 100%
People play powershift or bank it as if it was TDM lol
@@alexw5042 thats exactly what I do 😬
honestly so well said!
this game is definitely fun, most of the losses i get were from lack of experience, poor decision making or just being outplayed.
so why is it that lights and mediums can face off with no problem, but when heavies get involved lights are obsoleted, and the only useful mediums are the ones pocket mercy-ing the heavies, the very presence of heavies in their current state literally means you are not allowed to have any other playstyle other than also going heavies with a healer.
Great video mate. Well said and communicated 🎉
Well said man. I noticed this communal pattern, if you like, right out of the gate with "the movement" incident/the resetting of the fov slider at launch. As with any skill, you have to put in the time to develop it and work to improve it. Hope you're doing well! Cheers.
It's interesting the amount of people I meet that have to win to have fun. Like, unless you are playing competitive, who cares. To quote Ilya Bryzagalov: "It's only a game. Why you heff to be mad"
HEY THATS ME (the finals L) AT THE COMMENTS SECTION!!! love the video have a good day mate 🤙
One reason to not listen to 99% of these requests is to spcetate 99% of their gameplay.
You will get medium mains who have never shot a gun other than the FCAR come up to you and say that The Finals is a E-sports game similar to CSGO and messing with "useless features" like map destruction is "throwing" and anything beyond shooting people is a waste of time, and these people will try to dictate any sort of update that gets added to the game.
Then they will play the game for themselves and will spend 25 seconds navigating a building to go one floor up when there are 15 different on-map canisters on every room and then get shot by an RPG through 5 cracked walls and ALT+F4 on the spot.
Words cannot quite explain how boring it is to watch this game because 99% of players try to play it like CoD, 100% of light players are better off playing slop like xDefiant instead. Why bother with a game at all if you're gonna not learn its deeper loop and plateau within a month and get miffed at everything cause the strat you wrongfully think should work is obviously not working.
By extent, in my experience coming way back from the Alpha test, quite literally the only complaint I have with the game, and I've said this under "HazedNConfused"s video also, is the fact that respawn timers are individual but how their reset is shared. Infact I'll just paste it as is cause I think I worded it well as is.
'I want to PLAY the video game, and if my own teammate's clashing playstyle gets him killed and costs him a measly 15 sec respawn timer whilst mine is extended to a total of 30 because THEY didnt want to care about me, it's infuriating.
Not because a team wipe drags us closer to a loss but because I don't GET TO play the game.'
If I'm forced to watch someone else play The Finals for 30 seconds straight when I queued exclusively to PLAY The Finals, I do not wish to be stuck watching someone I do not like the style of play the game I'm supposed to be a player in. If this were an apt 15 seconds as per a part of the game given punishment for individually underperforming, I'd be fine but a teamwipe penalty is nonsensical in non-competitive modes.
Im a few minutes in the video and cant hear you anymore i got the point there are just as many opinions as ppl wow thank you!
Great video mate, well said! Your kiwi voice is bloody brilliant!
Great video, I very much agree. I think the problem is that not all weapons are as easy to use as stock. Even though on paper they might look the same/cost the same. I think the game should put a 'difficulty to use' stat on the weapon, much like Counter Strike has done.
I think maining the dagger really highlights this. When I play movement correctly I can get behind and wipe teams of heavies and mediums in diamond lobbies. There are also engagements where playing close doesn’t work and I die without providing my team with any damage.
Congrats, another W video and comment, this games community needs to chill and just have fun! :D
Thank you for saying this, so much surrounding the game at the moment is negative so it's lovely to hear some positives.
Any gamemode I play theres always one guy that leaves as soon as it isn't going "well". Plenty of times sticking through the game to last minute clutch.
I've been telling people this since the beta lol. Great Vid
Heavy is extremely OP right now (I am Diamond 1). it's borderline oppressive tbh
Very this. Well done.
It’s like most these folks forgot how to adapt. You learn it once and you’re done? I think not.
The light class is more glass than it is cannon. It needs something to match out against mid, and heavy in high Elo.
No way. Get good with the sniper or the dagger and you are a god.
@@kevinroberts5140 I'll hit you right back "No way. Get Good." then you will understand why light is not a cannon.
I main light and I can 1v2 a medium and a heavy, you're just bad.
Also don't need sniper or dagger. LH1, XP54, M11. Even with the V9S.
@@jordankelly4684 You clearly don't understand the issue, you can solo kill a team with any load-out if you are better than the enemies, the issue is the light classes advantages don't out-way the disadvantages.
Sacrificing health for a little more movement speed in an objective based game isn't worth it. At some point you have to stand your ground and both medium and heavy out class light when in direct fights like this. (Which you can force because of the objective)
The cannon part of the light's kit is incredibly situational and due to the nature of the game, this feast or famine play-style makes light objectively worse than the other classes. Consistency is the key to winning and climbing.
Love that kind of content, gg
Well said sir
A really good point I think you kind of imply but don't really mention is that imbalance isn't necessarily bad game design. It's just a part of game design that needs to be accounted for. In actuality, in many cases, it ends up being a part of creating fun and emergent gameplay.
An example that I think applies here is regarding how balance works in fighting games. The first Street Fighter is one of the most balanced games out there, but because of that there is no variety to the fights and it is generally pretty boring. SF2 on the other hand introduced a ton of new and interesting characters and mechanics, and a ton of imbalance along with it, creating one of the first truly great fighting games and defining what the term "fighting game" meant for years to come. (Core-A Gaming's video "Analysis: Why We Should Buff More Than Nerf" discussed this and other relevant points, definitely recommend a look.)
I play The Finals surprisingly similarly to how I play fighting games. It's a game about creating advantages, recognizing enemy weaknesses, and capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes (hell, the Light is literally designed to have to take unfair fights as a direct extension of this). I lab strategies and combos just like a fighting game as well, and I've found that there are very few non-viable choices for building a loadout around (despite what talking heads discussing "the meta" seem to think). It feels incredibly well balanced right now to me, especially considering just how many variables the devs have to account for with the interactivity of the game's sandbox.
I almost never find myself thinking that something was truly unfair when I sit down to look at a loss or a death, and I feel there's almost always a counter-play that could have been used. No game is perfect sure, and The Finals is no exception, but damn is it tightly designed.
How are you playing ranked in new Zealand? I can't find matches in Australia and so I have to play north America which comes with the bad latency
Ottr brought me here but I didnt want him to pause the video so i cane to the original, good shit
Thought id say, that "mcnuggie" guy who said buff heavies was a guy i know, me and another guy were telling him to say stuff to make people upset lol
In my mind The Finals tag line is “Adapt or Die, Literally”
This is true both of the emergent gameplay with in a battle and with in the Macro balancing of the game. Either find a new strat given the current realities of the game or get destroyed over and over while complaining that your old strat doesn’t work. Only you can decide which is more fun, but my advice is to change it up. You’ll have fun learning a new style and it’ll help you learn how to adapt next time it’s required.
This also translates well to real life.
Personally for me it's not the balance, it's the technical stuff that makes me question myself why am i even playing.
Like with recent Defibrillator bug when the statue hitbox can be in another place. Or a light with a sword and emote cancellation bug that deletes you in seconds.
Also the third-party'ing is really big issue that doesn't have any skill curve, you just need to pray that you won't be finished by another team after your initial fight.
Amen. Even while I was playing the open beta I thought this was one of the most well-balanced fps games I’ve played in a while
Any updates on arc raiders ?
After whatever balance they did I can now use light with no issues ! Medium is my go to tho. I still can use heavy I’m not good with that class .
It's pretty dang balanced in my opinion. There are only a few changes I'd make to melee weps, but outside of that I like where the game is now.
Except M shotty. That thing is weird with range.
All games has high tiers and low tiers. But if the game's low tiers are never really picked for viability then there is a big problem.
okay but they need to buff the grenade launchers a little, right? I think almost everything else is fine though :3
just for fun I'd wanna say what I think they should do:
give Med Launcher +1 ammo.
give Hvy Launcher a bigger explosion hitbox and an immune to aps turret.
Complete BS, again about APS
The explosion hitbox is fine.
The only change I particularly want on heavy gl is an arc indicator when aiming, as there is no reason to aim down sights with it and I think that's a wasted opportunity to raise the skill floor of the gun.
I’m willing to let embark practice and make mistakes. The game is a few months old and not only has embark never done anything remotely like this but the game specifics are pretty damn unique amongst the industry. They are forging new ground, so it’s natural they’ll make mistakes and time to. Get things right.
I generally agree, the game is really well balanced. It's usually pretty easy to know that you either got outskilled or got caught-out playing stupid. For me this makes it easier to not get tilted.
But...
The changes to melee hit registration in the latest patch feel kinda oppressive. I haven't felt that "there was nothing I could've done to survive that engagement" vibe since the snuke era. But I'm getting it now. 🤷♂️
I pretty much agree I don’t think there needs to me any massive changes to weapons/gadgets at the moment I’ve dabbled in all 3 classes and have def felt op as all 3 I’m at around 240 hours I started as bronze 3 in season 2 and now am gold 1 on the way to plat also there is more then one way to win the game strategy is key for example placing both vaults on in a cash out to force every one to fight and get team wipes so you move up
me and a friend mention how the xp takes too long to gain for gadgets especially considering the possibility that we will keep getting new camos every few seasons
that nerf throwing knives comment from me at 1:02 was a joke btw
as someone who mains throwing knives i can say that they are a wee bit powerful
Been trying to say this for so long. People are so whiney with every new patch… I just play the game have fun and if they change something than so be it… the two thing I’m so happy about getting removed are the nukes and recon.. I’m a light main and I think they’re doing a great job with the balancing and still have loads of fun
I think this only applies in unranked imo. You CAN make light work in ranked, but there's better, more effective options.
Light sword has emote cancles which is actually broken but sure guess the devs ment for that to happen
even without emote canceling
I agree i think the game balance is in a really good spot right now Heavy might need a slight nerf to the flamethrower imo though.
Hey man, what happened to the easter egg hunting
It’s still going, we’re just struggling to make progress!
@RockhoundBlack I'm very excited about the Easter egg video👌
video is extremely dismissive? Heavy is objectively overtuned, with more kill potential than any other class on top of 350 base health and abilities for more temp hp? I can solo wipe teams extremely fast despite having the most hp in the game as Heavy. not saying the other classes are perfect but. seems a little unbalanced for sure LOL
maybe you just good
Thanks for not being part of the "It's so over for The Finals..." group, i love your content and you are a good fella
This video is not aimed towards comp players. Just the people on reddit.
I want a re-design on the body types.
So right, people are never happy. I enjoy Finals i wish my friends would play it instead of CS or Valorant.
bro said skill issue for 10 minutes straight 😭
Preach it
I agree for the most part but there are definitely some weapons that need buffs. The 3 round burst light pistol, the dagger, KS-23, throwing knives are all too weak. And the light class in general is kind of useless. it does roughly the same DPS as the other classes, has much lower health, and their abilities are very weak. Why does the grapple only have 1 charge for example? And invisibilty has been nerfed so many times its not even worth using anymore. If you play heavy you can use goo which is great for fortifying points, charge and slam to decimate anyone at close range, and the mesh which is literally just an extra 750 health for you and anyone standing behind you. Not to mention the RPG which is just easy damage and dome which is MORE extra health. Medium can heal teammates and revive mid fight. The stun gun was the only thing light had that even approached the power level of the other classes and now it's useless.
i think game is really nice balanced now......i really really pray that devs stop nerf everything. something was needed. but last nerfs is start to be unnecessary....but have to say even last nerfs (cloak and stungun) they are okay still. but please embark stop nerfing 😭
Well said! I had an argument on Reddit about these things including game modes needed to be more creative and bizarre to bring creative scenarios to the game because the core gameplay of Finals is great and doesn't need that much balance. Only ones wants who are complaining about Finals gun balances are the ones that want to see Finals become like Call of Duty or Fortnite or any other generic pop fps. Finals rewards creativity alone side aiming, if you are not good at aiming, it's ok, grab a melee or flamethrower or grenade launcher and kill your enemies in another way. I called Finals creative fps with destruction. Anyone who has problem with the game balance they are not creative for Finals' gameplay.
very well said tbh
Ok, but I still wanna see light buff
i main light these days and it's doesn't need too big buff. I would give max 25hp or little faster re-gen but even without them light is really deadly. so does it need buff.... yes and no 😅
@@protoni6996 I agree with you, but I can say with a few hundred hours of gameplay, mostly as light, that if I want to stop dying or actually win I can play medium or heavy and have drastically better results. I’m an average player, and I think there’s something to be said when In ranked 75%+ of the classes played are medium, and the number only goes higher after each tournament round. I would actually love to see the statistics on that. I’m sure it would speak for itself.
My comment is to take for the all those who ask for buffs and nerfs just like this video ahahahaah gg 4 the video.
@rockhoundblack
I'd say certain weapons do need buff while others would actually be better off as gadgets.
Take sniper rifle for example. Using it makes you a burden to your team no matter your skill. Take it to power shift/terminal attack and using sniper no longer puts your entire team in tought position.
Same can be said for heavy's grenade launcher. 90% of the time this gun is useless due to its bounching nades and aps rendering you an easy target.
They are the Best devs rn
Embark pls give heavy
thank
Ok smoke does need a massive buff
People act so weirdly about this game's balance, and it seems like people are way harder on it than other shooters. First off, in any game with respawns, it's really hard to get that mad at something unless its insanely over powered, which I don't think anything in the finals currently is, because at the very worst, it's about 1 minute of waiting till you get to try again, and second, people seem to think this game should have no learning curve whatsoever, which is just baffling. If someone boots up CS or Siege and gets absolutely destroyed by someone with a few hundred more hours than them in the game they just say it's part of the game and the game is hard, but then people seem to disregard that thinking in the finals and just say "if they killed me then nerf whatever they were using" it's really weird to me since I agree in saying that the finals feels really well balanced, and you can win using almost any loadout as long as you have the skills!
If I play SoloQ ranked and someone pick potential 'throw' picks, I'd say lets have some shits and giggles, there are effective moments in all the randomness, and dare I say, the less reliable a gadget/weapon is, the more fun it is to see it being effective. Meta isn't always the most efficient or effective, its the safest, most forgiving, least offensive; if getting good is repeat practice on the same thing, its repetitive boredom isn't the reason why I play games, that's just work
but since 'win a tournament' is no longer a requirement, I'm happy with casual modes and items that don't mean anything to meta, hell, I still find those unfair moments on my side using what is generally trash situational weapon like heavy's GL, just because I made a hole in the wall, suddenly I got an angle for all the campers in the attic and forced them out, or funnel tryhards to a chokepoint. I have my share of time playing an effective light or medium too, its just what type of fun am I going to have that time.
I still am adamant that heavy needs a major nerf. That class controls every game, from easily winning any and every 1 on 1 to completely locking down points with any of their shielding abilities. They are simply too strong. You can't really even argue with me as pro play does not allow more than one Heavy, because if they didn't it would just be 3 Hs on every team...
Heavy is oppressive in the current meta. I got to platinum with medium, I got to diamond fast once I switched to heavy permanently. I get that it can't be perfect, but it still needs some tweaks.
I find this video so ironic with most of your gameplay being with heavy. As a diamond player, I can say with confidence heavy is an outlier, it's just THE FINALS easy mode. 20+ kills near every game and I'm not trying at all. I flex play all classes (Medium and light I prefer) and heavy just makes me feel like a god EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. And I don't even use charge and slam. Having that specialisation alone would just make everything I do twice as easier cause it's that stupid (as you clearly portrayed in some of your clips) but I ain't a scrub so I use mesh shield. Next time tho, as a suggestion, maybe, just maybe, give actual good points on WHY it's balanced rather than telling people to just "get good" cause alot of us ARE good and find this video hilarious, and not in a good way ❤
well... yes... but if you have ever played tf2 you would know that the heavy is kind of the main character. almost every game revolves around him. so yes but also if you have bad teammates then you will lose. that's why heavy heavy heavy is not a meta.
Agreed lol
Nerf Rockhound! His videos are too informative and entertaining! 😡
My man
That subreddit shows they never played TF2.
Saying the game is balance and that the dev know what they are doing is a massive joke. Dev listen to the worse take possible and only balance the geme around casual for some reason. For any people who tryhard the game the balance is horrible. Devs look at data without even trying to understand it. You just need to see what they did tl light to undetand how they work. They just want the game to be easy for casual who play 2h a week. They could have focus and try to maintain a good balance around casual and tryhard player. And maybe focus on comp that could bring them visibility throught esport, tournament.... Game is dying sadly due to a poor balance because they listen too much to bad player but everyone is happy because they add cosmetic.... Hope they will finally open their eyes and try to revive the game and focus.more around people who spam a lot the game and want it to be rlly big
Idk I still feel like the other guns on medium should be buffed so that the akm isn't the meta as much
Unfortunately I doubt many people in the discord will take this to heart and will continue to spout their opinions and then when the developers actually do it they'll take a 180 and ask for the opposite
I’ve been saying this on the discord since launch… let the devs cook
I thought that the throwing knives needed a serious buff for a long time until I encountered a skilled knives user. I spent some time with them and now the throwing knives is my main light weapon. The more builds and weapons you work on learning, the better you get at the game as a whole. that's good balance
💯💯💯💯
Lewi is annoying to fight against
I think people are taking advantage of the devs because of how they actually listen to the community sometimes feels like the community is running the game and embark is jus listening which is good and bad
RHB making a 10min video to say "skill issue" hehe
Totally agree with all the points made here, skill is the biggest deciding factor in most duels
trash opinion. embark literally ask for our opinion on balancing. they are not gods who make a perfect game.
i mean, dont most loved developers ask for your opinions?
@@mattmanz1 yes. unfortunately in the video he said the game is balanced just how the devs want it, and that we dont have the knowledge to decide what needs re balancing. embark recently said to us that they don't know how to balance melee perfectly, and they want our input on the recent melee changes. this statement directly refutes his claims in the video.
If everyone's saying everything's unbalanced, then it is truly balanced
Heavy is over-tuned, once they fix that the game will be balanced
love your easter egg videos but gonna be honest I don't agree with this video at all, all it boils down to is "skill issue" which just isn't true
Starting at 0:47 half of those examples were sarcastic and joke remarks about the game- can we not make jokes in the discord anymore man? lmfao
Edit: Fixed a typo. but might as well add this spoiler, dude's got a nothing burger video that's just a really long and complicated way of saying "Skill Issue" while playing mostly Heavy.
Yea Ottr is prejudice against Heavies confirmed and prays all of heavies guns and gadgets get nerfed
its funny cus i have never had a problem with heavies, even ones with a pocket medic
U might forgot about solo ranking , its the worst experience possible u get urself into….the frustration of playing well but ur team isnt teaming the frustration of popping off but still losing to shit players whiffing their shots but they running HHM while u have little light monkey on ur team sniping on crane forcing u to coin after getting jumbed on by two heavies slapping rpg on your forhead 🗿shit players get diamond since they full stack while u hard stuck at plat 2 because u perma 1v3 like u supposed to be 3 in 1 guy who does it lol
the game is great but a real shame that only 15 people play it. the game fell off in player numbers because there are no overpriced anime skins, no BR mode, the game is too fast paced for controller kids
The discord is full of awful takes. No idea how the mods devs deal with the loud minority