Someone really understood the point of all classical prophecy stories. Knowledge of the future never offers power over it. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Everyone thinks they want to know what happens, but man, now I've live through so much, I realize I was much better off not knowing what was coming.
@@shadeblackwolf1508 So true. What I love about God of War: Ragnarok is how it deconstructs this kind of prophecy story. Had Kratos sacrificed his integrity to avoid his fate, he'd have doomed himself and his son. Instead, he chose to open his heart, and counseled Atreus to do the same. To be a good person or not is the only choice we always have available to us.
The way each of them address the characters in a different way: One talks to them directly, one narrates them, and one quotes them. Masterpiece in writing.
They are past, present, and future, the old one is past reflecting on the past, the narrator is present and narrates their actions, and the young one is future speaking as they speak to show she knows what they are going to speak in the future.
One small but AMAZING detail at 0:57 That single grunt proves the Norns are correct; there is no written destiny, just choices. The Norns predicted that Kratos would remain silent, but Kratos CHOSE to grunt in defiance. Just as the Norns said, they can often guess what people will do, but a single choice can throw their predictions out the window. In the same vein, prophecies and destiny are often self-fulfilling, but Kratos proves they don’t have to be. And all of this is illustrated by a single grunt.
Honestly i love that this prove one of the primary message of this game. "To be better", ultimate that's what creates the best outcome of ragnarok, that's what kratos himself. Even in the face of predictablity we can choose to be better.
@@rottensquidNo, he cannot die. Kratos is cursed to walk the Earth forever. He cannot die of old age or by his own hands. That is why he survived his suicide attempt at the end of GOW3. He can die of wounds and in battle, but he's immortal outside of that. He's also a god and they don't die of old age.
There are so many good things about this scene. But I think one of my favorite bits is afterwards, when you go into the journal and Kratos has written down the names of the three Norns, except he doesn’t remember ever hearing their names, as if someone put the names into his head. They are thatmeta-fictional.
I like this take. Your fate is the sum of the choices made by you and those around you. And because true change is rare and hard, we can extrapolate those choices onto the future
I like to think that of all the strange inspirations that could have had, this one actually came from science fiction. In the series Isaac asimov's foundation, the titular establishment is basically a fortune-telling organization ran on scientific statistics. Operating on the theory that the more you know about history the more accurate you can be in prediction where similar events are in question. And that's how the norns here specifically say they operate. They know all the past and can make near perfect guesses about the future using that knowledge
@@s.a.m.6266 I think that in the norns context, they're talking about the fact that Kratos doesnt look to the whole picture of what was told to him, focusing only in the part they mention that Heimdall would try to Kill Atreus. He focus too much on the means and ignores the end. (Thats what i think rewatching now, might be wrong). But my comment was not about the lore aspects, i was talking about the game script itself, focusing too much on the second act, and giving us a rushed conclusion.
@@s.a.m.6266 Maybe about how they were so worried with everything around ragnarok (the buildup) rather than figure out what to actually do during ragnarok. Which yeah pretty spot on, they only get a chance because of sindri and then because kratos changed thor, but overall it was a rushed plan odin should have seen coming and be prepared for, but he too was more worried with other stuff
@@theodemello7399 I see. Yeah the in-game meaning that you mentioned is something I vaguely understood. What I didn’t is that - after getting that this is obviously a meta comment on story writing - I was lost at “ to the exclusion of…” as I haven’t heard this expression anywhere before. Thanks for the explanation.
1:20 “You will die, Kratos of Sparta.” Is such a good line, as it is one of those statements that would make someone believe that they got told their fate but will become true no matter what happens. Either he actually dies, he manages to redeem himself, or he never redeems himself. In all three possibilities the statement remains a true prediction.
Heimdall died because of Kratos yes. But it was Heimdall's stubbornness that led him to die. You can say he is also the reason why Ragnarok happened he died. They got the horn. The Reqlm he is suppose to protect left in ruins just because of his pride.
1:21 it's only till I analyse that line so closely and watch other content analysis creators in gow lore. It was when I realized when she said, "You will die Kratos of Sparta." That is what kratos is thinking right now. And she spoke his thoughts. Which also builds up to there words that there is no destiny only tye choices you make. Yet your choices are so simple it's predictable. "YOU ARE TYE SUM OF YOUR CHOICES AND NOTHING MORE"
@@domtoretto8226 Ah! My Goddess, judging from the UA-cam algorithm the popped up between GoW:R and several other anime I watch clips of. There was a huge mistranslation of Verdandi in it though.
one thing that makes this scene so impactful to me is the SOUNDTRACK. the way the inquisitive and mystical theme of the norns gives way to the somber and melancholic Ragnarok theme as soon as they reveal Heimdall's intentions at 2:35, before they even say the word Ragnarok. in that moment, before Kratos can even process what that actually means for the world, the events of the rest of the game are truly set in motion, and the fates of the gods are sealed because of Kratos' laser focus on protecting his son. this game is incredible, and bear mccreary is the goat fr.
at that point you would've heard something like "he was going to speak first but hearing that makes him want to let his companion speak first just to try to annoy the fates -as if they cared-"
More like they aknowledge that focusing on resolving everything of the Nord Saga on the SECOND GAME,.instead of pushing for a third, was a better thing for the IP...
@@rottensquidit is clearly rushed. Plotlines are left open. Confirmed by game files that the journey to find surtr was COMPLETELY different. No way around the fact it was clearly rushed
@@TheAcidicMolotov I mean, if you're bound and determined to find fault with it, have at it. It didn't strike me as rushed in the slightest. Whatever was planned for Surtr, the sequence worked fine. Almost all big games like this end up shortening and changing certain aspects to hit deadlines. That doesn't mean the version that didn't get made was automatically better. And if any plot threads were dropped, I can't say I noticed. Anyway, rushed or not, I think criticism gets caught up in looking for flaws, but flaws aren't that important. It's better to judge art by what's great about it than what isn't.
They were ultimately right, Kratos did "die," and from the "death" of the tormented and hateful monster he was, he was reborn a hero truly capable of change
After watching this scene multiple times, besides Kratos living through Ragnarok, I think they are proven wrong in another aspect. The Norns pretty much said that Kratos wants to know the ending to his story, not how to get to Atreus. But when they mention Heimdall, Ragnarok, and his presumed death, he could only think about stopping Heimdall from killing Atreus. I don’t know if this was intentional or right, but I’d like to believe that they couldn’t read Kratos as much as they led the group to believe
Well, no. Kratos was likely intending to ask about the prophecy where he dies in Atreus' arms, but the Norns mentioned Heimdall's intentions, stealing his focus. The "second act" in this case is Heimdall's death. As soon as he heard that Atreus was going to be killed by Heimdall, Kratos stopped caring about anything else that would happen. They were completely right about everything.
i just realized, the mythos in this game is full of self fulfilled prophecies in a "you've removed the problem physically, but have you figuratively?" way, how preventing a prophecy sets up a reinterpretation of it to happen nonetheless kratos's story is the exact same, but also opposite. his prophecy becomes true, but instead became a good thing. the ghost of sparta died, but kratos did not
It would have been incredible if they had the voice actresses from Ah! My Goddess! to voice the Norns here! Eileen Stevens as Verdandi/Belldandy, Wendy Lee as Urd and Kether Donahue as Skuld, so you don't have to look it up.
I wonder if, in fact, they said exactly what they needed to say and the way they needed to say it to make them choose the choices they go on to choose.
2:44 I finally get what gave me weird feelings about this scene. Kratos is Greek, Freya and the Norns are of Norse mythology. Mimir is... Celtic? So why speak Latin?
It’s nothing less than stage direction! Very theatre for the storytelling creatures to use the same kind of language when describing a curtain fall. Less a matter of any particular depicted culture, more a use of what’s common in English when describing drama
@@endearinglyconfused3589 Exeunt omnes would be less recognizable than "Exit stage left" for most audiences, I feel like the writing was very specific with this scene
As gods of fate we shall laugh and mock the Ghost of Sparta, the Slayer of Gods, and we shall mock him, when he wants to change his god killing ways. For he the one thing he does the best, is to kill said gods. I am sure that is a great decidion to make, but for the life of me, i cant see it.
I like the scene. I really do. That being said, I would've preffered if the Norns had a bigger part in the story like the Sisters of Fate did. Their segment kinda jist happened and that's it. In fact, if you eliminate the Norn segment, nothing from the story is really lost. Also, It was originally implied that Kratos was factually gonna die but they ditched the idea. I personally would've liked that ending tho since Kratos technically craves true death. The man has been through so much. It would've made sense that he died in the end of Ragnarok protecting the ones he loved and obtaining true redemption and peace in the process, maybe even shedding the white ashes of his familly on his skin which is part of the curse he has.
That is entirely wrong. The scene is absolutely important in Kratos' development and to the themes of the story. It's subtle, but it's something he ends up thinking about for the rest of the story, including Valhalla. It's also meant to echo the events of GoW2, and showcase how his usual approach would fail him, regardless of his different feelings and intentions behind them. Everything that happens after this scene has the weight of the Norns' words looming over it. It's not as direct a 'move the story forward' as some other events might be, but apart from that being very far from the be-all and end-all of good writing, the impact is still felt and it's huge. Furthermore, this is how they found out Heimdall plans to kill Atreus, which leads to Kratos asking the Huldra brothers to make the Draupnir Spear, which not only lead to Heimdall's death but affected how Odin himself acted.
I find it funny how the Norns basically call out the game for being rushed in its third act. I fear for the implications of what they say and kratos actions in the end. They say he "does what you do best" which is "you kill gods". If kratos archetype is killing and rage, what will future games be about if he changed fate during ragnarok? How can we continue a franchise based on killing and epic fights when the main character serves to be better? As a protector who doesnt kill? It doesnt seem satisfying to the player
We leave Kratos to his fate and we follow Atreus, who is still young and has much to learn. Besides, I reckon not many of the Egyptian gods will be that polite to him.
There is a clear path forward because Kratos has taken out 2 kings of 2 different pantheon of gods thats got to cause concern to the other gods in the world
Atreus prepares the meal and sets it down on the table only to sit down and announce, "So... I'm nonbinary..." Kratos replies,"What does that mean?" Atreus answers with annoyance,"It means I'm neither God nor Man."
I love how this game shits all over the Gow 2018 story, not even addressing that the giants did in fact see the future, not predict it or make some random guesses. And if there is no fate or prophecy, how did they predict something like Thor sending Yorm through time and HOW would the giants predict something that did happen and so accurately like "3 years of Fimbluwinter will pass after Baldur's death for Ragnarok to happen" ? What does Ragnarok even mean to the Norns?
in my theory the norns outright lie here, maybe to avoid ppl just streaming there to know their own end. so they downplay their own knowledge and power big time. skulds whole deal wouldnt be possible without knowing the future for a fact to some degree "you will learn that heimdall intends to kill your son in asgard" is also a heavy grip into future-telling territory. it basically would go against odins direct will, so the norns would have to know heimdalls thoughts to predict that. or the events around it
I think its more like; the future is a sum of the causes that led up to it, so by knowing the causes you can guess the effects (and thus, the future). And the Norns are apparently so good at knowing things and people that they can predict, calculate if you will, what will happen in the future with an accuracy that can be considered prophetic. Basically their idea is that if you subscribe to the idea of fate, youre assuming the future is tugging you towards it with a tow line, but in reality its the opposite; every choice you make lays down another stone on the road towards the future. The norns are wise enough to know where that road leads just by observing and predicting how those choices are gonna be made.
@@RandyCarter1937 part of that contains what i meant with the heimdall thing. he always shows the a-hole attitude, but obeys odin to the letter. and odin wants/needs atreus alive so the norns wouldve needed to know heimdalls inner workings to a degree to predict hed go for the kill, no?
@@betelgeux6010Not really. Your thought process is reflected in the things you say and the actions you take. For example, if you read or watch a bunch of superhero stories, you'll eventually find yourself predicting scenes or quotes before they happen. Like the hero showing up right before someone dies, or listening to the villain monologue, giving the hero the chance to foil their plans. It's the same here.
This is actually a terrible scene. The whole point of the Norns is to tell Kratos that he’s going to die not because of fate but because of his character flaws. But what is the flaw they say he has? Saving Freya from Baldur and stopping Heimdall from killing Atreus. Mimir says this same thing literally 5 minutes later and it’s played up as Kratos going down the wrong path but why exactly is saving Atreus from a killer wrong? Kratos’ major flaw is his unwillingness to let Atreus go and invite the world into his heart, yet this is never shown or stated for the entire act of Kratos supposedly “falling back into his old ways” And even when Kratos does do something slightly wrong which is choking Heimdall to death, no consequences come from this anyway. So this entire sequence of the Norns acting all smart is completely stupid as nothing they say ever comes to fruition in the plot and only serves to confuse the audience.
Yes, why is killing someone bad? Kratos has never done anything wrong in his life /s Kratos' only recourse to being antagonized by God's is to kill those gods up to this point. He keeps making the same choices, and thus his future is fairly easy to predict. It's not until Ragnarok, when he finally decides that carving his way through Asgard to get to Odin is not the way he wants to live anymore that his fate changes. He does not kill Thor, he does not kill Odin.
@ Yes, there was nothing wrong with killing Baldur. Mimir, Atreus, and even Freya admit this. Yes, there was nothing wrong with forging a spear to kill Heimdall because he was just told Heimdall will kill his son and Heimdall himself is an unrepentant murderer. The Norns nor Atreus visions don’t ever clarify that Kratos’ death will come as a result of not sparing Thor, and the game doesn’t even make it clear that Kratos only sees killing Thor as an option. It’s not like Kratos really wants to kill any of the Norse gods. He spared Baldur in 2018 until he threatened Freya. He had no interest in ever going to war with Odin. He only ever wanted to fight Heimdall when Atreus was threatened, so the whole notion of Kratos being the same and only seeing killing gods as a solution to his problems doesn’t make sense.
Boring game, you dont want a movie script in it 24/7 to be fun, play a boring old norse calm cool collected dad, and call yourself god of war. And this vikings bs. What sells sells! Bs. Why call it god of war if its just about controlling his anger and try to teach people anger is not the solution. Yet he did fight, absolute mad. Add to that call it "GOd of war" franchise. Like ragnarok was any form of wow such chaos, such big fights .... bs. Found it was the game made for kids and connection to their dads so i thought i would not live the realm of real life of dad trying to teach their kids or kids to their dads. Wtf...is gaming mean to these clowns anyways, is it supposed to be fun yes! But what it turned out was trying to teach people again of manners. Just great. Pass on this type of game. Stay corporate lose real fans.
good grief... SOMEBODY woke up on the wrong side of the bed! its a top tier franchise that won game of the year, and your understanding of it is very shallow. Go back to playing mindless edgy games that have no depth to them.
@thejester1216 only less creative people love these type of games. If you're not imaginative you produce contents like this. Storylines like this. Relatable 24/7 is not a groundbreaking storyline and some good one liners don't make a good game. Replayability are what makes it good game. Game awards don't. You can pay for being fans too nowadays. Older games had way more depth and fun contents to it. Made for fun, good storylines, not taken too seriously, as it was supposed to be. What sells fan base like you is what messing up the creative creators out there. Pay big checks for big development studios with bs agendas and what not. Result, GOW, oh my bad...dad of words....good luck! If it was named different I would have said it's ok, but the way they tarnished this game with everything different, it's not even funny anymore. Nobody is going to sit in their rooms, watching 1-2 hrs of movie esque content and holding their controller to oh does this work or they doing it themselves....no! They showing you their creative side with good visuals and god awful gaming experience. Kids these days man...can't even enjoy game for what it is like GOW 1,2 and 3. But here we are...teaching ourselves to not be like kratos as if people would actually take it that far. But some do...oh wait. Gotta set an example!!! We are a big brand! We signed top vocal actors!! Oh wow. But why I m using an axe to slash tree type of object and all I can do is smash 3 buttons and it's 3 slashes of axe...animations, slow af. Kratos is old we get it. Bro we get it! So serious so creative so damn funny seeing dad sons fight like in real lives! Oh wow! Look at that. Kratos the dad, the teacher, the preacher. The mothafu........ I m sorry I rest my case your honor.
Dude stop being weird and go outside. You have a weird superiority complex. The story is great and so is the gameplay. Just cause you lack emotions and immersion doesnt mean a game is bad. You sound like a damm distatisfied child who is throwing a temper tantrum. "I rest my case your honor" *tips fedora*
Man youre one of these people who just wants another 3 god of war Games where kratos is killing one god after the next with mit even a real reason beside he want Revenge and are pissed of if just anything Changes because it was "good that way". Yeah the old gow Games were great but that doesnt mean it can never Change, i personnaly think that everyone who dont like the new gow Games but think the old ones are amazing just cant Accept the fact that things are just changing if you Like it or not. So pls dont be Like that and Just accept that Changes need to be done.
Someone really understood the point of all classical prophecy stories. Knowledge of the future never offers power over it. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Everyone thinks they want to know what happens, but man, now I've live through so much, I realize I was much better off not knowing what was coming.
And quoting kung fu panda: the destiny is often found on the path one takes to avoid it.
@@shadeblackwolf1508 So true. What I love about God of War: Ragnarok is how it deconstructs this kind of prophecy story. Had Kratos sacrificed his integrity to avoid his fate, he'd have doomed himself and his son. Instead, he chose to open his heart, and counseled Atreus to do the same. To be a good person or not is the only choice we always have available to us.
@shadeblackwolf
"Quoting *Kung Fu Panda?!*" Good lord brother! That's an ancient greek proverb! 🤣
@@anothisflame8266 i know, but KFP is what most people might know it from
I can't say the same. I'm only 30 though so that may change but as of myself right now, I still absolutely want to know what's coming.
The way each of them address the characters in a different way: One talks to them directly, one narrates them, and one quotes them. Masterpiece in writing.
First person, second person, and third person view
They are past, present, and future, the old one is past reflecting on the past, the narrator is present and narrates their actions, and the young one is future speaking as they speak to show she knows what they are going to speak in the future.
One small but AMAZING detail at 0:57
That single grunt proves the Norns are correct; there is no written destiny, just choices. The Norns predicted that Kratos would remain silent, but Kratos CHOSE to grunt in defiance. Just as the Norns said, they can often guess what people will do, but a single choice can throw their predictions out the window. In the same vein, prophecies and destiny are often self-fulfilling, but Kratos proves they don’t have to be.
And all of this is illustrated by a single grunt.
Honestly i love that this prove one of the primary message of this game. "To be better", ultimate that's what creates the best outcome of ragnarok, that's what kratos himself. Even in the face of predictablity we can choose to be better.
Peak.
Suddenly Kratos remembers why he killed his fates
I mean, the fates were actively trying to kill him, Norns are just kinda there and chill
They were right, Kratos of Sparta did die, he confronted himself, made peace with it and moved forward into a brighter future
I mean, eventually, Kratos the God will also die, like everyone and everything else. So that was hardly news. She never said when it would happen.
Valhalla ending reference?
@@rottensquidNo, he cannot die. Kratos is cursed to walk the Earth forever. He cannot die of old age or by his own hands. That is why he survived his suicide attempt at the end of GOW3. He can die of wounds and in battle, but he's immortal outside of that.
He's also a god and they don't die of old age.
What confuses me is how they act like his story is ending, permanently.
@IwillSurrenderwhen was he cursed? I thought the only reason he couldn’t die was because Athena stopped him.
There are so many good things about this scene. But I think one of my favorite bits is afterwards, when you go into the journal and Kratos has written down the names of the three Norns, except he doesn’t remember ever hearing their names, as if someone put the names into his head. They are thatmeta-fictional.
This was a cool thing to know 😮
I like this take. Your fate is the sum of the choices made by you and those around you. And because true change is rare and hard, we can extrapolate those choices onto the future
I like to think that of all the strange inspirations that could have had, this one actually came from science fiction.
In the series Isaac asimov's foundation, the titular establishment is basically a fortune-telling organization ran on scientific statistics. Operating on the theory that the more you know about history the more accurate you can be in prediction where similar events are in question. And that's how the norns here specifically say they operate. They know all the past and can make near perfect guesses about the future using that knowledge
Parents do this to their children all the time
This part felt suuuper european fairytale and I loved it. The mystical goofyness mixed with the sour news of the coming future was super cool
2:52 "Focusing on the second act to the exclusion of the final"
Yeah, actually that's pretty accurate for that game
EXACTLY
Could you explain it perhaps? This is the only thing that was said in this scene I haven’t understood.
@@s.a.m.6266 I think that in the norns context, they're talking about the fact that Kratos doesnt look to the whole picture of what was told to him, focusing only in the part they mention that Heimdall would try to Kill Atreus. He focus too much on the means and ignores the end. (Thats what i think rewatching now, might be wrong).
But my comment was not about the lore aspects, i was talking about the game script itself, focusing too much on the second act, and giving us a rushed conclusion.
@@s.a.m.6266 Maybe about how they were so worried with everything around ragnarok (the buildup) rather than figure out what to actually do during ragnarok.
Which yeah pretty spot on, they only get a chance because of sindri and then because kratos changed thor, but overall it was a rushed plan odin should have seen coming and be prepared for, but he too was more worried with other stuff
@@theodemello7399 I see. Yeah the in-game meaning that you mentioned is something I vaguely understood.
What I didn’t is that - after getting that this is obviously a meta comment on story writing - I was lost at “ to the exclusion of…” as I haven’t heard this expression anywhere before.
Thanks for the explanation.
1:20 “You will die, Kratos of Sparta.” Is such a good line, as it is one of those statements that would make someone believe that they got told their fate but will become true no matter what happens. Either he actually dies, he manages to redeem himself, or he never redeems himself. In all three possibilities the statement remains a true prediction.
2:22 best line in the game
Kratos looking at Skuld like 'If you touch me one more time, I'm gonna see a red circle spinning over your head...'
That has 2 meanings 💀
@@Captain_Titus3867I mean, skuld is kinda cute
Kratos: "You know what, f*ck fate." (F*cks fate)
@@blairdurward4324kinda?
Little did you know, there's probably a statue nearby to focus on a well
Heimdall died because of Kratos yes. But it was Heimdall's stubbornness that led him to die.
You can say he is also the reason why Ragnarok happened he died. They got the horn.
The Reqlm he is suppose to protect left in ruins just because of his pride.
1:21 it's only till I analyse that line so closely and watch other content analysis creators in gow lore. It was when I realized when she said, "You will die Kratos of Sparta." That is what kratos is thinking right now. And she spoke his thoughts.
Which also builds up to there words that there is no destiny only tye choices you make.
Yet your choices are so simple it's predictable.
"YOU ARE TYE SUM OF YOUR CHOICES AND NOTHING MORE"
😲 That makes lot of sense... Thanks for sharing it
The Norns are just really good guessers.
Kratos: Aren't you three in a harem anime?
Skuld: No - no comment.
Man what?
@@domtoretto8226 Ah! My Goddess, judging from the UA-cam algorithm the popped up between GoW:R and several other anime I watch clips of. There was a huge mistranslation of Verdandi in it though.
@@LuxDragonI was thinking SAO with the Excalibur arc
@@tracemacmillan9718 That doesn't quite count since they were more like a cameo.
@ I know but it’s what I was thinking
one thing that makes this scene so impactful to me is the SOUNDTRACK. the way the inquisitive and mystical theme of the norns gives way to the somber and melancholic Ragnarok theme as soon as they reveal Heimdall's intentions at 2:35, before they even say the word Ragnarok. in that moment, before Kratos can even process what that actually means for the world, the events of the rest of the game are truly set in motion, and the fates of the gods are sealed because of Kratos' laser focus on protecting his son. this game is incredible, and bear mccreary is the goat fr.
This is beyond peak fiction. Omfg this is so good.
Basically, the sisters use Zola’s algorithm
@@ByllionBucks 😂 Nice one
If I entered the room wjth someone and heard that I’d speak first, I’d shut up until the other person speak
Checkmate 😂
at that point you would've heard something like "he was going to speak first but hearing that makes him want to let his companion speak first just to try to annoy the fates -as if they cared-"
“Focusing on the second act to the exclusion of the final”
Oof, did they acknowledge that they rushed the ending of this game?
@@ChefinBb 😂
More like they aknowledge that focusing on resolving everything of the Nord Saga on the SECOND GAME,.instead of pushing for a third, was a better thing for the IP...
I don't consider the ending rushed in the slightest. What more did you want from it?
@@rottensquidit is clearly rushed. Plotlines are left open. Confirmed by game files that the journey to find surtr was COMPLETELY different. No way around the fact it was clearly rushed
@@TheAcidicMolotov I mean, if you're bound and determined to find fault with it, have at it. It didn't strike me as rushed in the slightest. Whatever was planned for Surtr, the sequence worked fine. Almost all big games like this end up shortening and changing certain aspects to hit deadlines. That doesn't mean the version that didn't get made was automatically better. And if any plot threads were dropped, I can't say I noticed.
Anyway, rushed or not, I think criticism gets caught up in looking for flaws, but flaws aren't that important. It's better to judge art by what's great about it than what isn't.
This is great game directing. Every scene mattered.
They were ultimately right, Kratos did "die," and from the "death" of the tormented and hateful monster he was, he was reborn a hero truly capable of change
After watching this scene multiple times, besides Kratos living through Ragnarok, I think they are proven wrong in another aspect. The Norns pretty much said that Kratos wants to know the ending to his story, not how to get to Atreus. But when they mention Heimdall, Ragnarok, and his presumed death, he could only think about stopping Heimdall from killing Atreus. I don’t know if this was intentional or right, but I’d like to believe that they couldn’t read Kratos as much as they led the group to believe
Well, no. Kratos was likely intending to ask about the prophecy where he dies in Atreus' arms, but the Norns mentioned Heimdall's intentions, stealing his focus. The "second act" in this case is Heimdall's death. As soon as he heard that Atreus was going to be killed by Heimdall, Kratos stopped caring about anything else that would happen. They were completely right about everything.
Wanted a scene of their reaction when they realized Kratos beat his fate
Norns told him how, they just didn’t expect him to
i just realized, the mythos in this game is full of self fulfilled prophecies in a "you've removed the problem physically, but have you figuratively?" way, how preventing a prophecy sets up a reinterpretation of it to happen nonetheless
kratos's story is the exact same, but also opposite. his prophecy becomes true, but instead became a good thing. the ghost of sparta died, but kratos did not
I'd love to see these three make a return in future GoW games.
It would have been incredible if they had the voice actresses from Ah! My Goddess! to voice the Norns here! Eileen Stevens as Verdandi/Belldandy, Wendy Lee as Urd and Kether Donahue as Skuld, so you don't have to look it up.
Wise characters not giving a damn about the great protagonist's ultimate journey of absolute heroism makes for some interesting scenes
Verõandi and Skuld are just devs with access to the animators script
1:34 how tf did Puck get here?!
Referring to Mimir I believe
@@ExodusGold nope
"it was too big to be called a sword, to thick and rough indeed it was like a huge slab of iron"
@cymikgaming1266 ?
@cymikgaming1266 ?
I like how with such bluster and condesencion, they are still proven wrong
I wonder if, in fact, they said exactly what they needed to say and the way they needed to say it to make them choose the choices they go on to choose.
They weren’t wrong they simply said you are your decisions
Then it should have been obvious that kratos can defy fate and the shouldn't have been so sure kratos is dumb asshole who will just die
2:44 I finally get what gave me weird feelings about this scene. Kratos is Greek, Freya and the Norns are of Norse mythology. Mimir is... Celtic? So why speak Latin?
It’s nothing less than stage direction! Very theatre for the storytelling creatures to use the same kind of language when describing a curtain fall. Less a matter of any particular depicted culture, more a use of what’s common in English when describing drama
@@endearinglyconfused3589 Exeunt omnes would be less recognizable than "Exit stage left" for most audiences, I feel like the writing was very specific with this scene
That Emily O'Brien narration!
The Norns just straight up have a copy of the script
Favor scene
As gods of fate we shall laugh and mock the Ghost of Sparta, the Slayer of Gods, and we shall mock him, when he wants to change his god killing ways. For he the one thing he does the best, is to kill said gods.
I am sure that is a great decidion to make, but for the life of me, i cant see it.
I like the scene. I really do. That being said, I would've preffered if the Norns had a bigger part in the story like the Sisters of Fate did. Their segment kinda jist happened and that's it. In fact, if you eliminate the Norn segment, nothing from the story is really lost. Also, It was originally implied that Kratos was factually gonna die but they ditched the idea. I personally would've liked that ending tho since Kratos technically craves true death. The man has been through so much. It would've made sense that he died in the end of Ragnarok protecting the ones he loved and obtaining true redemption and peace in the process, maybe even shedding the white ashes of his familly on his skin which is part of the curse he has.
That is entirely wrong. The scene is absolutely important in Kratos' development and to the themes of the story. It's subtle, but it's something he ends up thinking about for the rest of the story, including Valhalla. It's also meant to echo the events of GoW2, and showcase how his usual approach would fail him, regardless of his different feelings and intentions behind them. Everything that happens after this scene has the weight of the Norns' words looming over it. It's not as direct a 'move the story forward' as some other events might be, but apart from that being very far from the be-all and end-all of good writing, the impact is still felt and it's huge.
Furthermore, this is how they found out Heimdall plans to kill Atreus, which leads to Kratos asking the Huldra brothers to make the Draupnir Spear, which not only lead to Heimdall's death but affected how Odin himself acted.
I find it funny how the Norns basically call out the game for being rushed in its third act. I fear for the implications of what they say and kratos actions in the end. They say he "does what you do best" which is "you kill gods". If kratos archetype is killing and rage, what will future games be about if he changed fate during ragnarok? How can we continue a franchise based on killing and epic fights when the main character serves to be better? As a protector who doesnt kill? It doesnt seem satisfying to the player
We leave Kratos to his fate and we follow Atreus, who is still young and has much to learn. Besides, I reckon not many of the Egyptian gods will be that polite to him.
Screw the player. "I am your monster no longer" was directed towards the audience.
There is a clear path forward because Kratos has taken out 2 kings of 2 different pantheon of gods thats got to cause concern to the other gods in the world
I just can't grasp the idea that so many people dislike this game... It's so freaking good
Atreus prepares the meal and sets it down on the table only to sit down and announce, "So... I'm nonbinary..."
Kratos replies,"What does that mean?"
Atreus answers with annoyance,"It means I'm neither God nor Man."
🤣
Its trash writing nothing they say makes any sense
I love how this game shits all over the Gow 2018 story, not even addressing that the giants did in fact see the future, not predict it or make some random guesses. And if there is no fate or prophecy, how did they predict something like Thor sending Yorm through time and HOW would the giants predict something that did happen and so accurately like "3 years of Fimbluwinter will pass after Baldur's death for Ragnarok to happen" ? What does Ragnarok even mean to the Norns?
in my theory the norns outright lie here, maybe to avoid ppl just streaming there to know their own end. so they downplay their own knowledge and power big time. skulds whole deal wouldnt be possible without knowing the future for a fact to some degree
"you will learn that heimdall intends to kill your son in asgard" is also a heavy grip into future-telling territory. it basically would go against odins direct will, so the norns would have to know heimdalls thoughts to predict that. or the events around it
I think its more like; the future is a sum of the causes that led up to it, so by knowing the causes you can guess the effects (and thus, the future). And the Norns are apparently so good at knowing things and people that they can predict, calculate if you will, what will happen in the future with an accuracy that can be considered prophetic. Basically their idea is that if you subscribe to the idea of fate, youre assuming the future is tugging you towards it with a tow line, but in reality its the opposite; every choice you make lays down another stone on the road towards the future. The norns are wise enough to know where that road leads just by observing and predicting how those choices are gonna be made.
@@RandyCarter1937 part of that contains what i meant with the heimdall thing. he always shows the a-hole attitude, but obeys odin to the letter. and odin wants/needs atreus alive
so the norns wouldve needed to know heimdalls inner workings to a degree to predict hed go for the kill, no?
@@betelgeux6010Not really. Your thought process is reflected in the things you say and the actions you take. For example, if you read or watch a bunch of superhero stories, you'll eventually find yourself predicting scenes or quotes before they happen. Like the hero showing up right before someone dies, or listening to the villain monologue, giving the hero the chance to foil their plans. It's the same here.
This scene was terrible and annoying
Kratos wrote this comment
This is actually a terrible scene.
The whole point of the Norns is to tell Kratos that he’s going to die not because of fate but because of his character flaws.
But what is the flaw they say he has? Saving Freya from Baldur and stopping Heimdall from killing Atreus.
Mimir says this same thing literally 5 minutes later and it’s played up as Kratos going down the wrong path but why exactly is saving Atreus from a killer wrong?
Kratos’ major flaw is his unwillingness to let Atreus go and invite the world into his heart, yet this is never shown or stated for the entire act of Kratos supposedly “falling back into his old ways”
And even when Kratos does do something slightly wrong which is choking Heimdall to death, no consequences come from this anyway.
So this entire sequence of the Norns acting all smart is completely stupid as nothing they say ever comes to fruition in the plot and only serves to confuse the audience.
Yes, why is killing someone bad? Kratos has never done anything wrong in his life /s
Kratos' only recourse to being antagonized by God's is to kill those gods up to this point. He keeps making the same choices, and thus his future is fairly easy to predict. It's not until Ragnarok, when he finally decides that carving his way through Asgard to get to Odin is not the way he wants to live anymore that his fate changes. He does not kill Thor, he does not kill Odin.
@ Yes, there was nothing wrong with killing Baldur. Mimir, Atreus, and even Freya admit this.
Yes, there was nothing wrong with forging a spear to kill Heimdall because he was just told Heimdall will kill his son and Heimdall himself is an unrepentant murderer.
The Norns nor Atreus visions don’t ever clarify that Kratos’ death will come as a result of not sparing Thor, and the game doesn’t even make it clear that Kratos only sees killing Thor as an option.
It’s not like Kratos really wants to kill any of the Norse gods. He spared Baldur in 2018 until he threatened Freya. He had no interest in ever going to war with Odin. He only ever wanted to fight Heimdall when Atreus was threatened, so the whole notion of Kratos being the same and only seeing killing gods as a solution to his problems doesn’t make sense.
Not good writing...the norns are just characters who read the (video-game) script and it shows.
that’s the point. Things are so predictable to them that to them, predicting the future is like being a english teacher analysing the plot of a novel
Boring game, you dont want a movie script in it 24/7 to be fun, play a boring old norse calm cool collected dad, and call yourself god of war. And this vikings bs. What sells sells! Bs. Why call it god of war if its just about controlling his anger and try to teach people anger is not the solution. Yet he did fight, absolute mad. Add to that call it "GOd of war" franchise. Like ragnarok was any form of wow such chaos, such big fights .... bs. Found it was the game made for kids and connection to their dads so i thought i would not live the realm of real life of dad trying to teach their kids or kids to their dads. Wtf...is gaming mean to these clowns anyways, is it supposed to be fun yes! But what it turned out was trying to teach people again of manners. Just great. Pass on this type of game. Stay corporate lose real fans.
good grief... SOMEBODY woke up on the wrong side of the bed!
its a top tier franchise that won game of the year, and your understanding of it is very shallow. Go back to playing mindless edgy games that have no depth to them.
@thejester1216 only less creative people love these type of games. If you're not imaginative you produce contents like this. Storylines like this. Relatable 24/7 is not a groundbreaking storyline and some good one liners don't make a good game. Replayability are what makes it good game. Game awards don't. You can pay for being fans too nowadays. Older games had way more depth and fun contents to it. Made for fun, good storylines, not taken too seriously, as it was supposed to be. What sells fan base like you is what messing up the creative creators out there. Pay big checks for big development studios with bs agendas and what not. Result, GOW, oh my bad...dad of words....good luck! If it was named different I would have said it's ok, but the way they tarnished this game with everything different, it's not even funny anymore. Nobody is going to sit in their rooms, watching 1-2 hrs of movie esque content and holding their controller to oh does this work or they doing it themselves....no! They showing you their creative side with good visuals and god awful gaming experience. Kids these days man...can't even enjoy game for what it is like GOW 1,2 and 3. But here we are...teaching ourselves to not be like kratos as if people would actually take it that far. But some do...oh wait. Gotta set an example!!! We are a big brand! We signed top vocal actors!! Oh wow. But why I m using an axe to slash tree type of object and all I can do is smash 3 buttons and it's 3 slashes of axe...animations, slow af. Kratos is old we get it. Bro we get it! So serious so creative so damn funny seeing dad sons fight like in real lives! Oh wow! Look at that. Kratos the dad, the teacher, the preacher. The mothafu........ I m sorry I rest my case your honor.
Dude stop being weird and go outside. You have a weird superiority complex. The story is great and so is the gameplay. Just cause you lack emotions and immersion doesnt mean a game is bad. You sound like a damm distatisfied child who is throwing a temper tantrum. "I rest my case your honor" *tips fedora*
Man youre one of these people who just wants another 3 god of war Games where kratos is killing one god after the next with mit even a real reason beside he want Revenge and are pissed of if just anything Changes because it was "good that way". Yeah the old gow Games were great but that doesnt mean it can never Change, i personnaly think that everyone who dont like the new gow Games but think the old ones are amazing just cant Accept the fact that things are just changing if you Like it or not. So pls dont be Like that and Just accept that Changes need to be done.
Rage bait used to be believable