It's a long video. Let me help! 00:00 - Intro 00:24 - How to Apply Tung Oil w/ Citrus Solvent 02:43 - Applying Pure Tung Oil 03:33 - Is this the only way? 04:01 - The Flooding Method 06:17 - Why is Flooding Problematic? 09:38 - My new Guild course! - thewoodwhispererguild.com/product/criss-cross-dining-table-bench/ 10:29 - Demonstrating Curing Problems 15:47 - Water Absorption Test 20:27 - Why do companies recommend the flooding method?
Thanks for the tips, Marc! I find myself using a fair amount of oil and varnish blends like watco danish oil and similar things (not on cutting boards, but other knick-knack type projects) and I’m curious if your advice would be the same for those types of finishes?
Years ago I think there was a treatment for wood before you put the finish on that was supposed to close the pores of the wood so it didn't soak up finish so bad. Is that a thing? Do we not do that now?
Have put tung oil 5 times. before wiping. Each time I apply oil, l decrease time before wiping because it's always sticky. With 320 grit in between. Last coat was 5min before wiping . Still sticky. Help!
@@jack002tuber i tried to seal wood with thinned waterbased sanding sealer before laying natural wood oil. Seems to be working just fine. I made sure the 1st layer already dried up, before laying down the oil.
I think that your explanations were accurate. I have been applying finishes for more than 35 years and have tried many different materials with many different application techniques. Here’s what I’ve learned: 1. Unless the finish is self-polymerizing (two part finishes or loaded with drying agents) thin coats are always better, in the majority of cases a diluted thin first layer is best. 2. Cure time is crucial, period. The finish is the final step of craftsmanship, and you need to be prepared to “finish” the finish. Rush through this stage and your perfect joinery and meticulous wood selection and preparation will simply look like crapmanship instead of craftsmanship.
Hi mmgross. How would you recommend going about applying a Waterlox tung oil finish to antique heart pine ceiling joists? The joists are "rough sawn" original and I don't intend to hand plane or sand, as I've already used a sandblaster to remove some of the patina, revealing clean wood underneith but also resulting in a rough texture. My thought is to first deep clean, first with air compressor and then with a wire brush dipped in mineral spirits. Then, I would apply thinned-out Waterlox tung oil via a ROLLER, being a bit aggressive to make sure I get full coverage but then coming back a few minutes after initial application and wiping away excess with rags (or even with a "dry roller"?). After waiting a day or two I would come back and scuff sand a touch to knock-down the first coat, then repeat the process albeit maybe not being so aggressive with my roller application on coats 2 and 3. Do you think I've got this right? What would you recommend? Thank you for your time!
@@HighRPMCreationslike so many of my home projects, i haven't gotten to this yet. Lol. I was also hoping mmgross (or others) would chime in and offer feedback on my plan.
@@mmgross144 great comment. Agree 100%. I knew I was getting good at woodworking when I became patient during the finishing phase and started enjoying it.
There is absolutely no doubt that your videos are the gold standard for how UA-cam videos should be done. Been watching you for years and am never disappointed. Oh, and keep adding the outtakes, love em.
Marc bring the science back and not just spreading the same old rumors that some think are common knowledge. It is always great to have a more scientific approach! Thanks Marc!
Yes! My career is in computers, and often things only work at all if you do them a very specific and correct way explained in technical docs. I sometimes find it tough navigating hobbies like woodworking or cooking, where advice is all hearsay and "trust me bro". Really appreciate this channel's use of the scientific method.
I had always used Salad Bowl Finish from GF for cuttingboards until I made one for a cousin. My can was too old so I had to use pure tung oil. I flooded it on like the directions said, then wiped it off. A year later, it was still leaching oil out. Finally it stopped and I tried this light method. MUCH better! Been woodworking for 12 years, and still learning new things. Thanks Marc!
I’m only about 10 minutes in but already I’ve learned some stuff / realized the reason behind some things I know but didn’t understand. Finishing is my Achilles heel for sure and I love that you don’t just expect us to take your word for it, you back it up with evidence and testing.
This is such valuable content. I really appreciate your scientific approach to woodworking. Shows that you can’t always blindly trust manufacturers or conventional wisdom!
Thank you! I'm a beginner wood worker, and I've been watching all sorts of you tube videos trying to get the best results I can. I've been making my own Paste Waxes, and flooding my finished projects with expensive oils, and throwing maybe 25 - 35% of that expensive oil in the bin. I have recently used this thin spreading method and I've had really great! results.
Thank you for making this video. I have probably seen around 30 to 40 other videos like this trying to learn as much as I can, but the simple approach that you discussed, and the explanation of the oil going into the pores, is worth more than all of the knowledge I gained from all the other videos combined. Thanks a bunch!
Same is here, I’m not doing a cutting board, I was looking something like that for my axe handle, for axe handles is different i will want my axe handle absorbed as much oil as possible, for the outdoor weather, I think I will soaking and submerge my new axe in linseeds oil overnight so the oil will go into all the pores then I can wax the handle
Perfect Timing! I just put on a flood coat of Walrus Tung Oil. Then I sat down to watch your video… I went back out, wiped off the excess, and then rubbed the remaining oil into the surface.
Thanks for this video. I have been doing woodworking for nearly 1/2 century and have always liked oil finishes. You realized the advantages of thin coats versus flooding in way less time than it took me. Haha. Thanks for validating my own findings. I like a couple thin coats of tung oil/mineral spirits, allow a week to cure, then do Briwax applied with 0000 steel wool and buffed to a nice flat sheen.
That's a gold standard content. It was very well thought through, planned, executed, and presented. You delivered the message by making things obvious to the viewers. My respects to you and your team. It was very informative.
I’m so glad I came to this video. One of my biggest pet peeves with UA-cam “how to’s” is when the instructor is adamant that their way is the only way. Refreshing to hear someone admit and even ask for suggestions for what worked from viewers. (Got a pup and needed so much advice. So many trainers say their way is the ONLY way. Usually “their way” involved a product so ultimately if you train your puppy “their way” you would have to buy that product they were affiliated with. Luckily, I also found several who offered plenty of training ideas, admitting that not all dogs respond the same)
I’m just going to try your method. I was about to do the flooding technique. Not now. Thank goodness I found your video. I think you have explained the reasoning so clearly. Great job. Thanks.
This is exactly where I went wrong after your previous video about finishing. I followed the tung oil manufacturer’s directions for flood coats and left plenty of time for curing only to come back to white patches of cured oil. Was about to give up on tung oil/citrus oil mix but will try the thin coat method. Thanks Marc!
Same here. I actually have a friend who did multiple boards using the manufacturers instructions, now he has white speckled boards… Would also love to know if it’s salvageable. Asking to help my friend of course.
@sebasss01 I took all of "my friends'" boards and gave them a light sanding with 320 grit and rubbed in a very thin amount of oil/solvent and they seem to be fine now.
Great video. The manufacturers of most pure tung oil say to flood and leave like you said. Your method is spot on! The flood and leave takes a loooong time to cure.
I moved away from the soak or flood method a while back, just from seeing how the board was curing. Part of that was my discovery of mineral oil never curing. I moved to Mahoney's Walnut Oil and I just wipe it on now. Good video!
Good information. I've used Tung Oil for years and several of my early projects became finishing disasters because I used the flooding method followed by a wax finish. I wiped the excess off and gave the oil several days to cure and it felt dry so I applied the wax. About a week later the wax starting sloughing off and the whole thing looked like it had the mange. I was able to save the projects by giving them about a month to really cure, a light sanding and reapplying the wax. When I apply much more sparingly, I don't have the issues. I still wait at LEAST a day between coats and about a week between the final coat and waxing.
Maybe or maybe they’re still of the mindset that the more oil we can get into the pours the better our wood will be sealed. But maybe it is about driving sales. They don’t tell you to flood with urethanes or something like that, even TruOil doesn’t tell you to flood it.
Rags rock. Finish expert and author Michael Dresdner said ANY finish can be applied/wiped on with rags. Since hearing him say that over 20 years ago probably, I use rags for almost everything including paint! When I'm done with paint it goes in the garbage, but I use old, dried oil finish rags and ones with polyurethane and other clear finishes to help start the wood stove! :-)
Thank you - I appreciate the value of your experience combined with the common sense I find necessary in my (personal) approach to all projects/problem solving situations.
I am making my first ever cutting boards and I am very glad that I came across your video prior to finishing my boards. I would have definitely flooded them. Thanks for the great content.
Thank God, finally someone exhibiting great WISDOM & dismissing the myth of flooding. As for a companies labeling, it's just like any other industry, some are just ignorant that just follow the rest of the sheep & I have no doubt some are driven by sales...If the events we are currently witnessing don't make one question man's motavation, then nothing will. Superb video my friend!
I bought an 1860's dental cabinet that was finished with oil (order details were still *in* the cabinet) and I have never experienced a wooden object that had water just bead up and swipe away like this thing. Definately converted me to oil finishing. It's amazing.
Great explanation as always Marc! I love it when you provide examples and side-by-side comparisons to drive home your point instead of "Just take my word for it!"
Sweet! I’ve been waiting for this video as I’ve got some Bumblechutes to try out and wanted to put it on most effectively. Thanks for all the work in putting it together.
Great video. I've only just started getting into tung oil finishing this last year and have had varied success as I'm learning. I'm definitely going to try going with thinner coats for my next project!
Thanks Marc, always appreciate your thorough and thoughtful approach. Curious, do you go on with a beeswax to further protect the surface and finish? Or just rely on the cure oil?
I think adding wax is a great idea. It can help seal the pores a little more effectively and gives you something to help beef up the sheen. Something as simple as heating up an oil and then adding a teaspoon of beeswax can be a nice way to get a little wax in the mix.
Great vid, very thorough. I know it’s been done to death, but would love to see your take on the latest craze of hard wax oils. E.g. Rubio, Osmo, Odies’s, Nano ceramics. Including amount of time to apply, dry, cure; level of gloss, durability and repair.
This whole ceramics thing is legit. And it's simple, hence why black forest did it, and Cam was pushing it then all of a sudden had his own brand lol. I'm 99% sure you can just use a general car wax ceramic coat. I like these guys, but it's too product heavy it makes me cringe. "This is a pencil, I didn't invent it or anything, you can buy this one from the links in description" I've stopped watching him for now because it makes me cringe how he says I didn't invent it for every single cool technique thats been around for 100 years, and how every single time he uses a product he makes sure he gets a sponsorship before he posts the video. It's cringe. I grt it, but it's taking the craft out of it for me and becoming one long commercial
Marc mentioned recently on a wood talk how these hard wax oils with additional protection on them (ceramic coating) are taking away the entire purpose of the HWO’s in the first place which is ease of application and less steps than a traditional polyurethane. It really is a great point. I mean they don’t offer enough protection in the first place.
@Sam Wanamaker Agreed. The advantage of HWO is ease of application, and done properly, it's pretty damn tough. Even so, one great advantage is the ability to spot-repair if the surface takes damage. The ceramic adds considerable time and cost to the finishing process. If you're going to top-coat, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just use a thin film-coat finish like poly, shellac or lacquer; those are all considerably cheaper and faster
Wow, excellent video! I actually watched the WHOLE THING. Riveting! (Maybe that says more about me than you excellent presentation skills?). I'm guilty. I'll stop flooding.
Great video , as always , very informative ! There were several mentions of applicators /cloth or ? Going into the garbage . It is worth mentioning that spontaneous combustion is a very real issue when solvents/ oil / cleaner rags and applicators are not disposed of properly. They all should be stored in an airtight non combustible container and disposed of according to your local bylaws. I ran an automotive shop for 40 years and experienced several "rag bin" fires that luckily were snuffed out by the safety lead melting and closing the lid .
I was taught the "flooding" method but, was also told, to angle the piece over an empty container and use a plastic scraper to push off the excess into the container, then wipe down. Also was taught to let "dry "24hrs to 48hrs" to dry between coats. To me, the biggest key to application also should include the temperature and humidity in which the application is being done. I'll be doing thin coats from now on. I've always used Tung Oil and Lindseed Oil, they've always been my tried and true finishes. Thanks for this info. Cheers :)
I just finished a work bench with a butcher block on top, with watco danish oil.. I kept the wood wet for 15 minutes then let it soak for 15 minutes and wiped off. No sticky residue.
Flooding is fine if it's polymerized from a heat treatment process or if it has metal driers in it. If it's pure, thin coats makes a lot more sense. Another great video Marc. Accurate, unbiased, and informative
Thank you. So much contradictory information on the proper application of tung oil, and your explanation (not flooding) makes total sense. I am using pure tung oil on some antique dining chairs that I have stripped, reglued and sanded. Going to dilute first coat with orange oil probably 1 to 1. Plan is to do 4 or 5 coats. Do you recommend continuing with the orange oil but decreasing the orange oil amount with each subsequent coat until perhaps the last or 2 last coats are pure tung oil? I am thinking about dry/cure time, especially with the higher humidity at the moment. Thanks.
I have noticed after flooding some oil on the surface 4 days afterwards. I couldn’t understand this since I buffed it each day. Now I understand some oil was actually coming back out of the wood each day. Thanks Marc! I’ll try your method next time. 👊
Oh lord thank you so much. I'm currently building my 7th and 8th cutting boards, first two were treated with mineral oil, the rest were done with Tung Oil but using the flooding method. I did let them cure for months so in the end once I started using them they hold up pretty well but I need to deliver them sooner than that. Definitely will try applying sparingly on these! Thanks.
I love the Tried and True instructions: if you've used any, you've used enough. They recommend a tiny amount rubbed in vigorously. I use that mentality for all natural oil finishes. I use about a dime sized dab per square foot and I apply it with a white pad on a DA polisher. I finished a bookcase by hand once and my arm was tired! The polisher was the perfect solution.
@@tundrawhisperer4821 the white scratch pads. I sand to 180 and use the scratch pad as the "final sanding." If you prefer to sand to a higher grit (220-400), you could use any of those pad applicators for all the coats.
Thank you Mark. I've been struggling with this issue of too thick coats as of late. This is something I will definitely try out. A few questions: • Do you increase the number of thin coats to compensate? • Would more thin coats increase water resistance? • How can we tell when a given coat is fully cured? • Will applying additional coats have a different effect if the underlying coat is fully cured or partially cured (dried not cured)?
Great questions. As an amateur weekend warrior I would also be interested in the answers. Currently re-finishing our kitchen island benchtops with tung oil / turps. Saw this video in my research throughout the year and now deep diving into the comments section to get those nuggets of experience that masters of the craft inevitably contribute.
I love your video. Good information. I was going to ask if I really needed to use citrus solvent for the Tung oil, and you answered my question without me having to ask. This are the kind of video I like. Thank you so very much.
Great info, Marc~! Danish Oil (by Watco) has become one of my favorite finishes. Their instructions also say to generously apply the finish, let sit, and wipe off the excess with a clean rag (as you probably already know). I'll definitely try the sparingly applied amount approach on my next project to see how that comes out. Thanks much~!
I was scrolling the comments to see if anyone brought up Danish Oil, because I use it so frequently. I’m wondering whether the varnish component affects the way it is absorbed. Have you had an opportunity to try out the “wipe and wait” approach yet?
Thank you for the video. I just started redoing my floors and I used tung because I like that it's natural (pure, anyway). I thought the flooding method didn't seem quite right and went with something similar to your video. Thin coat in the room and then wipe off excess but I think I'll do it in slower smaller sections and apply light and wipe off immediately. I appreciate your video and advice!
Thanks for this discussion, Marc! I feel this video compliments a similar video by Stumpy Nubs very well. In fact, both your video and his video can be supplemental to each other. I like how you showed physical tests. I was amazed by the endgrain cutting boards. I always knew they were more porous, but didn't know they were that porous. Your video has definitely added a whole heap of value to the community (as usual).
I totally agree with you. Especially for all the directions for consumer marketed finishes you really should be skeptical about the directions for application and talk to one’s who have been using that finish or similar finishes for years in the real world. For linseed oils I can say that thin coats are definitely the way to go and wait as long as possible between coats if you are concerned about the fastest dry and cure times.
Thank you for the experiments, Marc. I have been moving away from the flooding method as a result of my own experience so it is great to see my thoughts confirmed. I also question the recommended drying times. I recently made a grave marker in European Oak and ended up leaving it for 48 hours between coats even though the initial coats were 50/50 Tung oil and thinners. I wiped off the excess after initial application and then re wiped the surface after 24 hours as it still seemed a little wet in places. The end result is definitely worth the effort.
The yellow on black text, the big "home alone" facial expression, and the provocative image.... I must say, Marc, you've really upped your thumbnail game.
My first cutting board was saturated with flax seed oil till it stopped soaking in, using a cloth. Before the first coat and for a couple days after saturation, I kept the 3' thick cutting/chopping board beside my wood stove and some of the time on top of a trivet to really heat it up. I have never had an issue with the oil seeping out. The heat seems to have dried, polymerized the oil. After a decade, I scoured the surface with salt and vinegar, and gave it a treatment with proper cutting board oil and wax. Looks like it did when I made it. This board is nothing fancy. I think it was from a slab of birch that was sitting in a shed for 30 to 50 years. Just one piece with 4 wooden feet. Amateur as hell but I am still using it LOL From what you have been showing, tung oil would have worked even better using the heating method I used to saturate the block.
Thanks for all the info, Marc! Great testing! 😃 I guess the flooding method would work better for mineral oil. After all, it never cures. Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
You should do a test of something flooded and not after like a year. I figured more oil inside something like my axe, the stronger it’ll be since it’s basically encased all of the wood grains in plastic.
Nicely done Mark. I have been preaching the thin coat method for a while now. I like that you did the tests. Next up, sun curing 😀. It is the next game changer in your Tung method.
Yes, the "drying" oils need oxygen and UV to polymerize. The Italian master violin guys used the sunlight 300 years ago... People now use UV cabinets, but anyone thinking of it should remind themselves that they can damage their eyes, and get skin cancer, and when you close up the cabinet to prevent that it can get really hot inside, and so you ventilate it and then dust gets on your slow-drying finish...
Fantastic explanation and helpful to show some simple tests to reinforce your personal opinion/experience. I've been struggling with the Flood it method recently, so I'm really excited to try this out on my next project.
I used Danish oil on my bench for years. Easy to apply and easy to repair. My main finishes are Shellac and oil for smaller projects. If it's larger I spray GF High Performance.
Thankyou for this video.As newbie I’ve been stressing about finishing with oil using the manufacturer’s instructions. I had a sense flooding or over applying was going to be a nightmare and ruin my project. It being a forever oily mess. My test pieces were proving it was going to turn out that way. I watched this video just in time!
I really appreciate this video... I hadn't heard of the "rub sparingly" method before and was ready to give up on tung oil entirely because it just takes too long because I wait until I can't smell it to apply another coat and the smell lasts for weeks sometimes.
Hey Marc. Always love the content. Listening to you the one thing I disagree with is you can never fully saturate an end grain board to the point it will be protected from liquid soaking in. If the board was thin enough you could probably do it as the "straws" will fill up, cure over months, and be semi protected. But thicker wood will have the substance, oil in this case, seep all the way through leaving the top not fully protected. A long grain board will be protected better as the straws are horizontal, not vertical. This is why I opt for a mix of oil and wax to treat my boards so the top layer is closed. Ad always, you make everyone think and I believe that makes us all better. Thanks buddy
With the tung honey i make, i recommend something kind of in the middle of these. Why? ...cuz its what has worked best for me personally. I think everyone eventually finds what works best for them as they try different techniques. Great points brought up in this video
Thanks for making this video! I've been building my first electric guitar and i settled on polymerized tung oil to finish the body. I've been planning on doing the flooding method since that's what everyone recommends (including the instructions from Sutherland Welles) but you've definitely convinced me that the "applied sparingly" method is superior.
great video marc i think it is a fuzzy area that we can all gain something from a bit more clarity. a video on your interpretation of how to apply finishes based on the label instructions could be interesting. asking local woodworkers is totally worth it. my local lumber yard and rockler usually have great advice giving employees.
I'm a flooder, hadn't ever thought of myself that way till now! I'd rather flood than to skimp but next time I'm gonna try finding a good in between. Interesting look at finishing , good job!
Thanks Marc. My finishing game is weak and usually involves me putting on a few coats of poly because that is what I know. I will definitely gives this a shot next time.
Thanks. I have had similar issues as far as trying to sort out what is actually in a product, and whether it is food safe and especially, how long will it take to dry. The flood method has not always worked well on thin end grain oak and black walnut. they absorb a lot of oil, and often too much. It's hard not to keep adding oil to an area that keeps drinking it though! Especially when that is what the manufacturer recommends.
I finished a Lake Erie Moxon vise with Tried and True Danish Oil (not the original with bees wax nor the varnish). Burnished with steel wool before, between, etc. Very thin coats. I was surprised how much the curly grain in the maple gave back over time. I could re-wipe it down twice a day for a week before it stopped returning finish. To cure it took about a month, however the final results are stunning. I like the fact that their finishes are all natural, but time cannot be a concern when curing. Thanks for the vid!
I had wood that needed protection ASAP in the Grand Canyon area which needs sanding etc that I can’t do to make it more finished so the Tung oil soaked with brush on seems to of filled lots of areas that looks to be adequate to take it to the fall when I can sand etc and then pick thin layers to finish after etc is finished.
I’m trying this approach on some black walnut doors I’m finishing now, having taken the flooding approach with three previous pairs of black walnut doors. First coat is on and looks good. Overall, the result from the first coat is lighter, and the grain doesn’t pop as much as the flooding technique, but it uses a lot less oil and is a lot less messy and smelly.
It's a long video. Let me help!
00:00 - Intro
00:24 - How to Apply Tung Oil w/ Citrus Solvent
02:43 - Applying Pure Tung Oil
03:33 - Is this the only way?
04:01 - The Flooding Method
06:17 - Why is Flooding Problematic?
09:38 - My new Guild course! - thewoodwhispererguild.com/product/criss-cross-dining-table-bench/
10:29 - Demonstrating Curing Problems
15:47 - Water Absorption Test
20:27 - Why do companies recommend the flooding method?
Pin it!
Thanks for the tips, Marc! I find myself using a fair amount of oil and varnish blends like watco danish oil and similar things (not on cutting boards, but other knick-knack type projects) and I’m curious if your advice would be the same for those types of finishes?
Years ago I think there was a treatment for wood before you put the finish on that was supposed to close the pores of the wood so it didn't soak up finish so bad. Is that a thing? Do we not do that now?
Have put tung oil 5 times. before wiping. Each time I apply oil, l decrease time before wiping because it's always sticky. With 320 grit in between. Last coat was 5min before wiping . Still sticky. Help!
@@jack002tuber i tried to seal wood with thinned waterbased sanding sealer before laying natural wood oil. Seems to be working just fine. I made sure the 1st layer already dried up, before laying down the oil.
I think that your explanations were accurate. I have been applying finishes for more than 35 years and have tried many different materials with many different application techniques. Here’s what I’ve learned: 1. Unless the finish is self-polymerizing (two part finishes or loaded with drying agents) thin coats are always better, in the majority of cases a diluted thin first layer is best. 2. Cure time is crucial, period. The finish is the final step of craftsmanship, and you need to be prepared to “finish” the finish. Rush through this stage and your perfect joinery and meticulous wood selection and preparation will simply look like crapmanship instead of craftsmanship.
Hi mmgross. How would you recommend going about applying a Waterlox tung oil finish to antique heart pine ceiling joists? The joists are "rough sawn" original and I don't intend to hand plane or sand, as I've already used a sandblaster to remove some of the patina, revealing clean wood underneith but also resulting in a rough texture. My thought is to first deep clean, first with air compressor and then with a wire brush dipped in mineral spirits. Then, I would apply thinned-out Waterlox tung oil via a ROLLER, being a bit aggressive to make sure I get full coverage but then coming back a few minutes after initial application and wiping away excess with rags (or even with a "dry roller"?). After waiting a day or two I would come back and scuff sand a touch to knock-down the first coat, then repeat the process albeit maybe not being so aggressive with my roller application on coats 2 and 3. Do you think I've got this right? What would you recommend? Thank you for your time!
@@MrGrillguy44: Seems reasonable. How did it work out?
@@HighRPMCreationslike so many of my home projects, i haven't gotten to this yet. Lol. I was also hoping mmgross (or others) would chime in and offer feedback on my plan.
@@mmgross144 great comment. Agree 100%. I knew I was getting good at woodworking when I became patient during the finishing phase and started enjoying it.
There is absolutely no doubt that your videos are the gold standard for how UA-cam videos should be done. Been watching you for years and am never disappointed. Oh, and keep adding the outtakes, love em.
Marc bring the science back and not just spreading the same old rumors that some think are common knowledge. It is always great to have a more scientific approach! Thanks Marc!
Rumors in woodworking is just crazy, so little fact 😄
Yes! My career is in computers, and often things only work at all if you do them a very specific and correct way explained in technical docs. I sometimes find it tough navigating hobbies like woodworking or cooking, where advice is all hearsay and "trust me bro". Really appreciate this channel's use of the scientific method.
I had always used Salad Bowl Finish from GF for cuttingboards until I made one for a cousin. My can was too old so I had to use pure tung oil. I flooded it on like the directions said, then wiped it off. A year later, it was still leaching oil out. Finally it stopped and I tried this light method. MUCH better! Been woodworking for 12 years, and still learning new things. Thanks Marc!
I’m only about 10 minutes in but already I’ve learned some stuff / realized the reason behind some things I know but didn’t understand. Finishing is my Achilles heel for sure and I love that you don’t just expect us to take your word for it, you back it up with evidence and testing.
This is such valuable content. I really appreciate your scientific approach to woodworking. Shows that you can’t always blindly trust manufacturers or conventional wisdom!
Thank you!
I'm a beginner wood worker, and I've been watching all sorts of you tube videos trying to get the best results I can. I've been making my own Paste Waxes, and flooding my finished projects with expensive oils, and throwing maybe 25 - 35% of that expensive oil in the bin. I have recently used this thin spreading method and I've had really great! results.
Thank you for making this video. I have probably seen around 30 to 40 other videos like this trying to learn as much as I can, but the simple approach that you discussed, and the explanation of the oil going into the pores, is worth more than all of the knowledge I gained from all the other videos combined. Thanks a bunch!
Same is here, I’m not doing a cutting board, I was looking something like that for my axe handle, for axe handles is different i will want my axe handle absorbed as much oil as possible, for the outdoor weather, I think I will soaking and submerge my new axe in linseeds oil overnight so the oil will go into all the pores then I can wax the handle
Perfect Timing! I just put on a flood coat of Walrus Tung Oil. Then I sat down to watch your video…
I went back out, wiped off the excess, and then rubbed the remaining oil into the surface.
220-221, whatever it takes -- I say this all the time and no one ever gets it. You gave me a good laugh today!
That’s one of my favorite quotes ever, but yeah, no one ever gets it 🤷🏽♂️
Perfect video exactly explaining the science behind what I’ve learned the hard way. Well done searched for weeks that find a video to explain.
Thanks for this video. I have been doing woodworking for nearly 1/2 century and have always liked oil finishes. You realized the advantages of thin coats versus flooding in way less time than it took me. Haha. Thanks for validating my own findings. I like a couple thin coats of tung oil/mineral spirits, allow a week to cure, then do Briwax applied with 0000 steel wool and buffed to a nice flat sheen.
When I use non-curing oils like mineral oil, flooding makes some sense. For curing oils, I think you’ve convinced me to try thin coats.
That's a gold standard content. It was very well thought through, planned, executed, and presented.
You delivered the message by making things obvious to the viewers.
My respects to you and your team.
It was very informative.
Great to see such a tactile finish rather than plastic epoxy 😊
Thanks for the straight forward attention to the little details. This is why I watch your videos. Well, your sense of humor helps too!
Man, I'm sold. Definitely going with thin layers for tung oil from now on.
This is a Bob Flexner level explanation in a much more exciting format. Thanks Marc!
I’m so glad I came to this video. One of my biggest pet peeves with UA-cam “how to’s” is when the instructor is adamant that their way is the only way. Refreshing to hear someone admit and even ask for suggestions for what worked from viewers.
(Got a pup and needed so much advice. So many trainers say their way is the ONLY way. Usually “their way” involved a product so ultimately if you train your puppy “their way” you would have to buy that product they were affiliated with. Luckily, I also found several who offered plenty of training ideas, admitting that not all dogs respond the same)
Great advice, and thanks for not using alarming titles. I usually ignore "you're doing it wrong" tutorials.
I’m just going to try your method. I was about to do the flooding technique. Not now. Thank goodness I found your video. I think you have explained the reasoning so clearly. Great job. Thanks.
This is exactly where I went wrong after your previous video about finishing. I followed the tung oil manufacturer’s directions for flood coats and left plenty of time for curing only to come back to white patches of cured oil. Was about to give up on tung oil/citrus oil mix but will try the thin coat method. Thanks Marc!
If you get the white spots or discolored film, how do you go about fixing it? Not that I would do anything like that. I'm just asking for a friend.
Same here. I actually have a friend who did multiple boards using the manufacturers instructions, now he has white speckled boards… Would also love to know if it’s salvageable. Asking to help my friend of course.
@sebasss01 I took all of "my friends'" boards and gave them a light sanding with 320 grit and rubbed in a very thin amount of oil/solvent and they seem to be fine now.
@@sethowens ah, thanks I’ll tell my friend to give that a try then.
have you tried the heatgun to melt it and then remove with a cloth?
It was a long video but it was well worth the watch and it’s opened my eyes to how I apply a finish to a build. Great review
Thank you for the clear and concise explanations. I happen to use the apply thin approach and have for years. Never had an issue with it.
Great video. The manufacturers of most pure tung oil say to flood and leave like you said. Your method is spot on! The flood and leave takes a loooong time to cure.
I moved away from the soak or flood method a while back, just from seeing how the board was curing. Part of that was my discovery of mineral oil never curing. I moved to Mahoney's Walnut Oil and I just wipe it on now. Good video!
Good information. I've used Tung Oil for years and several of my early projects became finishing disasters because I used the flooding method followed by a wax finish. I wiped the excess off and gave the oil several days to cure and it felt dry so I applied the wax. About a week later the wax starting sloughing off and the whole thing looked like it had the mange. I was able to save the projects by giving them about a month to really cure, a light sanding and reapplying the wax.
When I apply much more sparingly, I don't have the issues. I still wait at LEAST a day between coats and about a week between the final coat and waxing.
I guess the flooding method is the one manufacturers want you to use in order to go through more of their stuff.
Maybe or maybe they’re still of the mindset that the more oil we can get into the pours the better our wood will be sealed. But maybe it is about driving sales. They don’t tell you to flood with urethanes or something like that, even TruOil doesn’t tell you to flood it.
Doubt it. It's $40 for the small "Bumblechute" can, just greed.
@@Murder2osix they are changing their packaging to reflect the method suggested in the video. It isn't about that.
@@Murder2osixNot worth it. Straight Tung oil or just buy both and combine them
Much like shampoo makers with the lather, rinse, repeat instructions
Rags rock.
Finish expert and author Michael Dresdner said ANY finish can be applied/wiped on with rags. Since hearing him say that over 20 years ago probably, I use rags for almost everything including paint! When I'm done with paint it goes in the garbage, but I use old, dried oil finish rags and ones with polyurethane and other clear finishes to help start the wood stove! :-)
Thank you - I appreciate the value of your experience combined with the common sense I find necessary in my (personal) approach to all projects/problem solving situations.
Right on! I will be putting finish on my cutting boards next weekend and this came out right on time.
I am making my first ever cutting boards and I am very glad that I came across your video prior to finishing my boards. I would have definitely flooded them. Thanks for the great content.
Thank God, finally someone exhibiting great WISDOM & dismissing the myth of flooding. As for a companies labeling, it's just like any other industry, some are just ignorant that just follow the rest of the sheep & I have no doubt some are driven by sales...If the events we are currently witnessing don't make one question man's motavation, then nothing will. Superb video my friend!
I bought an 1860's dental cabinet that was finished with oil (order details were still *in* the cabinet) and I have never experienced a wooden object that had water just bead up and swipe away like this thing. Definately converted me to oil finishing. It's amazing.
Do you know what oil was used on it?
If it was 1860s are you sure it wasn't shellac-ed?
@@vikramkrishnan6414 yes, because the custom order slip was inside the cabinet, with what finishes were done and how much it cost.
Great explanation as always Marc! I love it when you provide examples and side-by-side comparisons to drive home your point instead of "Just take my word for it!"
Thanks for explaining this. Finishing is one area in woodworking that I really struggle with not knowing exactly what to do and this helps!
Thank you for being such a good teacher! I feel a lot more confident about oil finishes.
Excellent video and yes, thank you for not using a click-bait title!
Thanks!
Thank you!
Sweet! I’ve been waiting for this video as I’ve got some Bumblechutes to try out and wanted to put it on most effectively. Thanks for all the work in putting it together.
Thanks for the great advice. Your experience with these finishes gives me a lot of trust in using your advice.
Great video. I've only just started getting into tung oil finishing this last year and have had varied success as I'm learning. I'm definitely going to try going with thinner coats for my next project!
Thanks Marc, always appreciate your thorough and thoughtful approach. Curious, do you go on with a beeswax to further protect the surface and finish? Or just rely on the cure oil?
I think adding wax is a great idea. It can help seal the pores a little more effectively and gives you something to help beef up the sheen. Something as simple as heating up an oil and then adding a teaspoon of beeswax can be a nice way to get a little wax in the mix.
And thank you for the support. 👍
Great vid, very thorough. I know it’s been done to death, but would love to see your take on the latest craze of hard wax oils. E.g. Rubio, Osmo, Odies’s, Nano ceramics. Including amount of time to apply, dry, cure; level of gloss, durability and repair.
This whole ceramics thing is legit. And it's simple, hence why black forest did it, and Cam was pushing it then all of a sudden had his own brand lol. I'm 99% sure you can just use a general car wax ceramic coat.
I like these guys, but it's too product heavy it makes me cringe.
"This is a pencil, I didn't invent it or anything, you can buy this one from the links in description"
I've stopped watching him for now because it makes me cringe how he says I didn't invent it for every single cool technique thats been around for 100 years, and how every single time he uses a product he makes sure he gets a sponsorship before he posts the video.
It's cringe. I grt it, but it's taking the craft out of it for me and becoming one long commercial
Marc mentioned recently on a wood talk how these hard wax oils with additional protection on them (ceramic coating) are taking away the entire purpose of the HWO’s in the first place which is ease of application and less steps than a traditional polyurethane. It really is a great point. I mean they don’t offer enough protection in the first place.
@Sam Wanamaker Agreed. The advantage of HWO is ease of application, and done properly, it's pretty damn tough. Even so, one great advantage is the ability to spot-repair if the surface takes damage. The ceramic adds considerable time and cost to the finishing process. If you're going to top-coat, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just use a thin film-coat finish like poly, shellac or lacquer; those are all considerably cheaper and faster
Wow, excellent video! I actually watched the WHOLE THING. Riveting! (Maybe that says more about me than you excellent presentation skills?). I'm guilty. I'll stop flooding.
Great video , as always , very informative ! There were several mentions of applicators /cloth or ? Going into the garbage . It is worth mentioning that spontaneous combustion is a very real issue when solvents/ oil / cleaner rags and applicators are not disposed of properly. They all should be stored in an airtight non combustible container and disposed of according to your local bylaws. I ran an automotive shop for 40 years and experienced several "rag bin" fires that luckily were snuffed out by the safety lead melting and closing the lid .
I got very good results following Tried and True's instructions (thin coats) on a Christmas related project this last Christmas season.
I was taught the "flooding" method but, was also told, to angle the piece over an empty container and use a plastic scraper to push off the excess into the container, then wipe down. Also was taught to let "dry "24hrs to 48hrs" to dry between coats. To me, the biggest key to application also should include the temperature and humidity in which the application is being done. I'll be doing thin coats from now on. I've always used Tung Oil and Lindseed Oil, they've always been my tried and true finishes. Thanks for this info. Cheers :)
I just finished a work bench with a butcher block on top, with watco danish oil.. I kept the wood wet for 15 minutes then let it soak for 15 minutes and wiped off. No sticky residue.
Dude you are my hero for making this.
Flooding is fine if it's polymerized from a heat treatment process or if it has metal driers in it. If it's pure, thin coats makes a lot more sense. Another great video Marc. Accurate, unbiased, and informative
Thank you. So much contradictory information on the proper application of tung oil, and your explanation (not flooding) makes total sense. I am using pure tung oil on some antique dining chairs that I have stripped, reglued and sanded. Going to dilute first coat with orange oil probably 1 to 1. Plan is to do 4 or 5 coats. Do you recommend continuing with the orange oil but decreasing the orange oil amount with each subsequent coat until perhaps the last or 2 last coats are pure tung oil? I am thinking about dry/cure time, especially with the higher humidity at the moment. Thanks.
I have noticed after flooding some oil on the surface 4 days afterwards. I couldn’t understand this since I buffed it each day. Now I understand some oil was actually coming back out of the wood each day. Thanks Marc! I’ll try your method next time. 👊
Excellent instruction, Marc. Time for me to change how I have been applying my oil finishes.
Oh lord thank you so much. I'm currently building my 7th and 8th cutting boards, first two were treated with mineral oil, the rest were done with Tung Oil but using the flooding method. I did let them cure for months so in the end once I started using them they hold up pretty well but I need to deliver them sooner than that.
Definitely will try applying sparingly on these! Thanks.
Finally, someone who questions the flood coat! :D Been a bugbear of mine for years
Thank you! Great video and perfect timing as I’m getting ready to finish a bar cabinet I have been working on for some time!
I love the Tried and True instructions: if you've used any, you've used enough. They recommend a tiny amount rubbed in vigorously.
I use that mentality for all natural oil finishes. I use about a dime sized dab per square foot and I apply it with a white pad on a DA polisher. I finished a bookcase by hand once and my arm was tired! The polisher was the perfect solution.
What is the “white pad” you are referring to? Thx
@@tundrawhisperer4821 3M white for the first coat or 2, then I switch to a terry sock.
@@CheveeDodd is that a wool, microfiber, or foam pad? Thx
@@tundrawhisperer4821 the white scratch pads. I sand to 180 and use the scratch pad as the "final sanding." If you prefer to sand to a higher grit (220-400), you could use any of those pad applicators for all the coats.
@@CheveeDodd oh…like a scotchbrite type pad, I see now. Thx
Thanks for saving my time and sharing how-to information in the very beginning!
I really learned here a lot. I will take care to spread thin layers, so great, thanks a lot for your work.
Ok, been having these issues and been working on being patient, applying thinner coats with much better results. Thanks for the peace of mind. 👍
Thank you Mark. I've been struggling with this issue of too thick coats as of late. This is something I will definitely try out.
A few questions:
• Do you increase the number of thin coats to compensate?
• Would more thin coats increase water resistance?
• How can we tell when a given coat is fully cured?
• Will applying additional coats have a different effect if the underlying coat is fully cured or partially cured (dried not cured)?
Perfect list of questions, sadly not answered
Great questions. As an amateur weekend warrior I would also be interested in the answers. Currently re-finishing our kitchen island benchtops with tung oil / turps. Saw this video in my research throughout the year and now deep diving into the comments section to get those nuggets of experience that masters of the craft inevitably contribute.
I love your video. Good information. I was going to ask if I really needed to use citrus solvent for the Tung oil, and you answered my question without me having to ask. This are the kind of video I like. Thank you so very much.
Great info, Marc~! Danish Oil (by Watco) has become one of my favorite finishes. Their instructions also say to generously apply the finish, let sit, and wipe off the excess with a clean rag (as you probably already know). I'll definitely try the sparingly applied amount approach on my next project to see how that comes out. Thanks much~!
I was scrolling the comments to see if anyone brought up Danish Oil, because I use it so frequently. I’m wondering whether the varnish component affects the way it is absorbed. Have you had an opportunity to try out the “wipe and wait” approach yet?
Thank you for the video. I just started redoing my floors and I used tung because I like that it's natural (pure, anyway). I thought the flooding method didn't seem quite right and went with something similar to your video. Thin coat in the room and then wipe off excess but I think I'll do it in slower smaller sections and apply light and wipe off immediately. I appreciate your video and advice!
Is there a way to remove the white spots properly if flood method is used or is the item trash?
I don’t think it’s trash. It’s just going to take a lot longer to cure.
Thanks for this discussion, Marc! I feel this video compliments a similar video by Stumpy Nubs very well. In fact, both your video and his video can be supplemental to each other.
I like how you showed physical tests. I was amazed by the endgrain cutting boards. I always knew they were more porous, but didn't know they were that porous. Your video has definitely added a whole heap of value to the community (as usual).
I totally agree with you. Especially for all the directions for consumer marketed finishes you really should be skeptical about the directions for application and talk to one’s who have been using that finish or similar finishes for years in the real world.
For linseed oils I can say that thin coats are definitely the way to go and wait as long as possible between coats if you are concerned about the fastest dry and cure times.
The oil seeping out with the heat gun was cool to see.
Thank you for the experiments, Marc. I have been moving away from the flooding method as a result of my own experience so it is great to see my thoughts confirmed. I also question the recommended drying times. I recently made a grave marker in European Oak and ended up leaving it for 48 hours between coats even though the initial coats were 50/50 Tung oil and thinners. I wiped off the excess after initial application and then re wiped the surface after 24 hours as it still seemed a little wet in places. The end result is definitely worth the effort.
Thank you for not naming it "what you've been doing wrong this whole time!"
Great video.
The yellow on black text, the big "home alone" facial expression, and the provocative image.... I must say, Marc, you've really upped your thumbnail game.
Thanks. I hate that it matters as much as it does.
My first cutting board was saturated with flax seed oil till it stopped soaking in, using a cloth. Before the first coat and for a couple days after saturation, I kept the 3' thick cutting/chopping board beside my wood stove and some of the time on top of a trivet to really heat it up.
I have never had an issue with the oil seeping out. The heat seems to have dried, polymerized the oil. After a decade, I scoured the surface with salt and vinegar, and gave it a treatment with proper cutting board oil and wax. Looks like it did when I made it. This board is nothing fancy. I think it was from a slab of birch that was sitting in a shed for 30 to 50 years. Just one piece with 4 wooden feet. Amateur as hell but I am still using it LOL
From what you have been showing, tung oil would have worked even better using the heating method I used to saturate the block.
Thanks for all that info and demonstrations. Great job really showing what you were talking about. Oh and awesome shirt also!!
Thanks for all the info, Marc! Great testing! 😃
I guess the flooding method would work better for mineral oil. After all, it never cures.
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
"We could have a whole 'nother video, just on that stuff." Yes, please! Thanks for sharing.
You should do a test of something flooded and not after like a year. I figured more oil inside something like my axe, the stronger it’ll be since it’s basically encased all of the wood grains in plastic.
Nicely done Mark. I have been preaching the thin coat method for a while now. I like that you did the tests. Next up, sun curing 😀. It is the next game changer in your Tung method.
Yes, the "drying" oils need oxygen and UV to polymerize. The Italian master violin guys used the sunlight 300 years ago...
People now use UV cabinets, but anyone thinking of it should remind themselves that they can damage their eyes, and get skin cancer, and when you close up the cabinet to prevent that it can get really hot inside, and so you ventilate it and then dust gets on your slow-drying finish...
Fantastic explanation and helpful to show some simple tests to reinforce your personal opinion/experience. I've been struggling with the Flood it method recently, so I'm really excited to try this out on my next project.
I used Danish oil on my bench for years. Easy to apply and easy to repair. My main finishes are Shellac and oil for smaller projects. If it's larger I spray GF High Performance.
Thankyou for this video.As newbie I’ve been stressing about finishing with oil using the manufacturer’s instructions. I had a sense flooding or over applying was going to be a nightmare and ruin my project. It being a forever oily mess. My test pieces were proving it was going to turn out that way. I watched this video just in time!
Marc, excellent video. And quite timely as I was just heading out to put finish on an end grain cutting board! Thanks!!
I really appreciate this video... I hadn't heard of the "rub sparingly" method before and was ready to give up on tung oil entirely because it just takes too long because I wait until I can't smell it to apply another coat and the smell lasts for weeks sometimes.
Hey Marc. Always love the content. Listening to you the one thing I disagree with is you can never fully saturate an end grain board to the point it will be protected from liquid soaking in. If the board was thin enough you could probably do it as the "straws" will fill up, cure over months, and be semi protected. But thicker wood will have the substance, oil in this case, seep all the way through leaving the top not fully protected. A long grain board will be protected better as the straws are horizontal, not vertical. This is why I opt for a mix of oil and wax to treat my boards so the top layer is closed. Ad always, you make everyone think and I believe that makes us all better. Thanks buddy
With the tung honey i make, i recommend something kind of in the middle of these. Why? ...cuz its what has worked best for me personally. I think everyone eventually finds what works best for them as they try different techniques. Great points brought up in this video
Thanks for making this video! I've been building my first electric guitar and i settled on polymerized tung oil to finish the body. I've been planning on doing the flooding method since that's what everyone recommends (including the instructions from Sutherland Welles) but you've definitely convinced me that the "applied sparingly" method is superior.
Fantastic video!! I’ve always wrestled with this exact issue of going against the recommended application method. Thanks for the science Spagz!
A fine video. The sparingly applied method works for me.
great video marc i think it is a fuzzy area that we can all gain something from a bit more clarity. a video on your interpretation of how to apply finishes based on the label instructions could be interesting. asking local woodworkers is totally worth it. my local lumber yard and rockler usually have great advice giving employees.
I'm a flooder, hadn't ever thought of myself that way till now! I'd rather flood than to skimp but next time I'm gonna try finding a good in between. Interesting look at finishing , good job!
Thanks Marc. My finishing game is weak and usually involves me putting on a few coats of poly because that is what I know. I will definitely gives this a shot next time.
Love seeing science Marc videos!!
Thanks. I have had similar issues as far as trying to sort out what is actually in a product, and whether it is food safe and especially, how long will it take to dry. The flood method has not always worked well on thin end grain oak and black walnut. they absorb a lot of oil, and often too much. It's hard not to keep adding oil to an area that keeps drinking it though! Especially when that is what the manufacturer recommends.
I finished a Lake Erie Moxon vise with Tried and True Danish Oil (not the original with bees wax nor the varnish). Burnished with steel wool before, between, etc. Very thin coats. I was surprised how much the curly grain in the maple gave back over time. I could re-wipe it down twice a day for a week before it stopped returning finish. To cure it took about a month, however the final results are stunning. I like the fact that their finishes are all natural, but time cannot be a concern when curing. Thanks for the vid!
Great video. We fully expect you to use your Barry White voice when you say Tung Oil from now on. 😂
I had wood that needed protection ASAP in the Grand Canyon area which needs sanding etc that I can’t do to make it more finished so the Tung oil soaked with brush on seems to of filled lots of areas that looks to be adequate to take it to the fall when I can sand etc and then pick thin layers to finish after etc is finished.
Great video, Marc! It's an area where I feel like a huge noob still!
I’m trying this approach on some black walnut doors I’m finishing now, having taken the flooding approach with three previous pairs of black walnut doors. First coat is on and looks good. Overall, the result from the first coat is lighter, and the grain doesn’t pop as much as the flooding technique, but it uses a lot less oil and is a lot less messy and smelly.
Thanks this answers my question