For me the bottom line is; find the type of pellet that gives the tightest groups when fired from a particular gun. Terminal ballistic performance is irrelevant if you miss the mark. High quality round nose diabolo pellets like AA Field, JSB Exact and Webley Mosquito tend to give the best groups in my experience.
Unlike other hobbies/sports, it's great to see everyone on this message board being informative with their knowledge and gained stats. It's hard to troll in a constantly evolving sport. It's like drag racing, it used to be the big blocks that dominated the sport, now it's tweaked 4 bangers that keep the pace. Thanks for keeping the sport clean.
Depends on what your shooting?we don’t have wild boars running around so there’s never need for more.thing is though British Airguns are built properly.you can buy any old American tat of a gun and it will shoot good as it’s pushing 950 FPS .so now there’s no skill as your trajectory to 70 meters is flat.
@@andyfry745 ah yes , another redcoat salty at the fact the colonist have better firepower. Chin up mate, you'll do fine with your "red riders" and slingshots 🤣
@@andyfry745 Try 1050 FPS with a .25 cal 30gr hollowpoint slug. You Brits are using 12 ft/lb guns and here in the US we are easily clearing 72 ft/lb....
I am very new to air gunning. I have a Hatsan Mod 125 .177. I have wrestled with my choice of .177 vs .22. Thank you for your extremely informative piece on pellet performance. As a result I have just obtained my first PCP in .177 caliber.
I choose the .177 for accuracy and there is one still in my nose cavity since childhood. One still must consider that too much energy is overkill when it comes to impact. The correct amount of energy allows the weight/speed of the projectile to move through the mass of a target at perfect velocity. Like as soon as the projectile exits the Mellon all the energy has been expelled. If one were to send a projectile at any weight at extreme speeds the projectile will continue onwards leaving large cavities behind its path due to the energy behind the projectile. So since I have had this projectile in my nose for 50 years I decided a good smacking of the perfect weight and speed will do the trick. All the energy that comes with the projectile remains centered in the center of the target as it finds it's exit point, doing massive damage. So no massive exit hole but a massive interior hole.
I used to have an old filthy 760 pumpmaster and with 7 pumps and destroyer pellets, i could shoot through the entire squirrel and catch the pellet in the skin on the other side. The perfect amount of power is super satisfying. I could shoot squirrels even if there were houses or windows behind them and not worry about overpenatration. Really helped to see the flight path through the squirrel because an exit wound can be really hard to find vs a hard bump under the skin.
the .25 is very accurate, watch ted's holdover he is very accurate he shot a pigeon at 160 yards. .25 buck the wind a lot better to, so i prefer .25 cal round nose.
Thank you for your superb research! Tour plaster casts of shot cavities provide a superb comparison of projectile effectiveness! It is such a simple, yet effective, tool for comparing ballistic effectiveness. I’m astonished that nobody has thought of this before now. Well I live in the United States, where there aren’t nearly as many rules about ammunition, I can still completely appreciate Your comparison of projectile effectiveness. Thank God I have finally found somebody who uses the scientific, yet common sense, approach to projectile selection. Thank you so much for your video!
You shouldn't be thanking him. He doesn't know what he's talking about and is giving completely false and innacurate information. I hope you watch other professionals and educated air gunners who can give you good information. Do not listen to this fool
and if you want my advice for accuracy and good energy downrange choose a pellet weight that keep your velocity under the speed of sound 1130fps or even a bit lower to avoid transonic speed . that way you have the maximum energy your rifle can deliver with maximum accuracy. you still need to find the brand or type of pellet your gun like the most !!!
Great video, I live in the US in a state without any limitations, of course pcp bottle guns in 22, 25,30 or larger are better hunting guns. At what point does a person say it's not safe to shoot this powerful a gun where conventional firearms are restricted? I'll stick to .177 pellets and slugs unless I'm where it's safe to shoot more powerful guns where I switch to a 17hmr, 22 hornet or 220 swift.
For what it's worth I found the .25 pellet was devastating when dispatching magpies....straight kill every time ...Big hole and all their blood seemed to empty ......Every time .
.177 is only superior to .22 in accuracy when you're limited to 12ft/lb air rifles. At high energies the trajectory of .22 generally becomes much flatter and predictable. i've achieved 1/2" (1.27cm) groupings with 15.4 grain Gamo red fire pellets at an average of 980ft/s (298.7m/s) muzzle velocity at a distance of 50 yards (45.72 meters) *all shots taken without moving on bench rest, exact distance measured from muzzle end to target plus or minus a couple of inches*
Yeah used to grade all might pellets an pick the heavier 177 over lighter on our crappy 11/12 ft/lbs where stuck with but with a few tweaks an polishing an good seals abd springs could get close to fac levels with 1000fps 177s an even more powerfull 22s could get pellet choice makes a difference light pellets wen faster but shot worse groups will heavys shot better too. I could unscew a pop bottles at 30meters on my old 50s no name guns ever time people would make bets it was not possible.... Little did they know I practice on really small targets like coins toy soldiers an bugs at long distance. I cud shoot the cherry off a fag the quarter an half three quarters..never any takers to shoot one out there mouth tho even though I've sowed it done 5 6 times an could clover leaf rounds at way longer distance's. Its like a had a built it targeting computer
This may have been true in 2014 but my .25 is hitting hole on hole at 50 yds. Wind is also a factor. .177s drift much easier. What if your ammo drops? Do you still want less fpe or a smaller cavity? More chance of wounding. Ethics.
Agree with the .25 accuracy, ive missed things 30 yards out on a perfectly scoped gun. So after testing of my own found that a .177, .20 and .22 will hit it, but the .25 didnt. I also found that a .177 will make a clean nice hole, and keep on going but the .20 and .22 makes big ass holes. Ive been using .22 ever since. Ive also learned to spend a couple more bucks and get half the pellets, but get lead free. They do alot more damage then the led.
I like this test. It tells us two very important things -- assuming a given pellet is accurate in your gun: 1)At the same FPE, middle weight pellets for a caliber are better -- assuming you're getting the accuracy, because accuracy trumps power (true of everything) 2) Americans, we should all run this sort of test with our own guns, because here we aren't limited to 12 FPE. A 17 FPE is going to maybe have different results. His .25 is inaccurate, but it's underpowered. Our .25s are accurate way out there, so we can take advantage of that massive shockwave. I plan to do this test, if I can get that wax. And I don't find it financially prohibitive. I'll take the pellets I find most accurate, and then run them thru the wax. The results will only be totally valid for my gun, but it's gonna tell me loads.
I suspect that the wax would be more applicable to body shots where some skull penetration is required for head shots on small game. I have been able to get some scary accuracy with a cheap Gamo in .177 and .22 cal. within 20 yards. I will be exploring beyond that soon and I am curious as to how the .22 will do at 75 yards. I still see it as not necessary to shoot that far for small game, I think if you can deliver a 1.5" group at 50 yards, you got the hunting side covered.
I own a .22 Walther Terrus very accurate, im looking at getting a .20 Hw30s next. I don’t like .177, .20 seems interesting to me. Hopefully they keep making pellets for it
Very very interesting as i have always thought that a slower heavy pellet had more knock down power and used .177 Bisley Magnum's in my HW97 which are very accurate and good on head shot rabbits but recently had problems with close range 15-20 yards heart shot magpies and jackdaws which weren't always dropping to the shot as they would with a .22cal, so after watching this i will be looking at a few different pellets like hollow points for the job. Great Video fellas.
As mentioned I'm some previous comments here. Pellet weight is crucial I'm not sure that disipation of energy is the be all and end all of shooting. pellets should be matched to the gun and the rifling. My gun needs a heavy pellet to keep it stable otherwise the pellet starts getting all loopy. It prefers a 5.52head diameter too
Charlie, I'm thinking that Phil is talking about .25 spring guns and not the PCP. I've seen what Ted Beir has done at long range and it is pretty impressive. Now with my FX Impact II in .25 with 700mm Barrel I'm hoping to get close.... might take a few years...miss the boys at Airheads... which them all well.
10% ballistics gelatin or Clear Gel offers a consistent standardized medium which the effects of bullet wounds can be simulated and reproduced. Wax and clay demonstrate the effect of the bullet's maximum temporary stretch cavity
I can vouch for the inaccuracy of the .25.I fired 10 shots at a Pepsi bottle a couple of days ago, and didn't hit it once. Then I switched to my .177, same result. I suspect it's because I'm a terrible shot rather than any inaccuracy inherent in the gun. Moral of the story... I guess the better a shot you are the more accurate the gun is going to be. One day I'll hit something, even if it's not the thing I'm aiming at. I'll just be delighted to hit something, be it a tree, a rabbit, a child's eye...
Hang it there mate! You will do fine some day haha :) Are you using a scope on your rifle? If so: it might be sighted in wrongly and therefore making it impossible to hit anything. Try taking the scope off and start shooting with iron sights, if these are adjustable then make sure they are set correctly. Cheers
John Smith Get closer and use a big piece of paper as a target. Aim at one point as accurately as you can and fire 3 times. Go look at your grouping; it could just be your gun is not sighted in and not your aiming ability. Had an old .22 with canted/bent sights but got used to it being off a bit to the right and became pinpoint accurate with it.
John Smith Not all guns are created equal. What were you using? I've seen .25's that are just as accurate as .177's, and vice versa. It's not the caliber, it's the quality of the gun and the skill of the shooter. Take the Hatsan 125 in .25 for example. Accurate as accurate can be, and hits like a truck.
Well in my 33 years of hunting I've always used weihrauch spring rifles on rabbits in .22 with either eley wasp until they went to shite or rws hobby and let me tell you a little some rws are accurate out to 40/45 yards out of my hw80 sub inch 10 shot groups and I've never had a rabbit run just drop like a stone with a .22 .177 is a target round 22 is a hunting caliber yes it takes a bit more time to learn/practice as more hold over and hold under is needed basically you have to be a good marksman to use a the .22 effectively
I'm wondering...there seems to be a difference between temporary cavitation and permanent cavitation. These plaster casts show temporary cavitation, but even then , it fails to consider the cavity limitations placed on the tissue by the presence of bone and differing muscular densities. In not knocking this video, by any means. The information presented here has its place, and is quite interesting.
The only varmint I was killing with my .177 was small varmints such as birds, Chipmunk, squirrels, rabbits at 30-35 yards. However, with both of my .22 and .25 I was able to kill large Jack Rabbits, Raccoons, Possums, Ground Hogs, Woodchuck at 25-30 yards out. My .22 is powerful. But my .25 has so much more knockdown power and I always count on it's accuracy and power to take out whatever I hit. So far as the .177 goes.... They are for the birds. And us grown folks are playing with .25 And that PCP you are using to shoot these varmints, well I can use my .25 that gives off the same energy and kill that same prey.
Fantastic video Sir. I recently bought a BSA R10 MK VC Carbine and tried different pellets. The main ones I got with the gun were RWS Superfield which rifle was pre-sighted in with as was told it was a heavyish type pellet and heavy pellets are meant to give better results with PCP and more accurate and shocking power. The others I got were RWS Superdomes which are a bit lighter.... the superdomes were a lot more accurate as it seems you could drive nails in with them putting hole through hold each shot. I ran out of theses so continued with superfield and with a few tweaks to the windage and elevation turrets they are performing better, but still not as good. So seems to me that the lighter ones are better and the old myth of springer performing better with light and PCP perform better with heavy is out of the window in my opinion. Only issue I may find is lighter pellet will be less accurate at longer distance I suppose, but yet to try my rifle at 25 / 30 meters as not had chance
.25 not accurate?? You've got to be kidding.. For UK 12 ft/lb, maybe, because its got a flat trajectory, but when your using 30-60 ft/lb .25 is the king.. .177 is accurate, no doubt, but when your making, lets say 50 yd shots, wind is a factor (because we hunt outside) .25 barely needs windage.. Vs .177 whoa, watch out.. Not to mention the retained energy is massive compared to the .177 that decelerates quite rapidly. I have every caliber, springers, pcp, pumps, beeman, rws marauder, airforce, etc and have been into this sport with passion since before people knew what the internet was, lol.. But, I'd just like to say that in my personal experience, with my abilities, .25 (Condor SS) has been the most accurate and reliable performer, than any of the other cals.. My two cents.....
Never had to hold more than a couple of mil dots with my sub 12flb 177 using bisley magnums. Can very accurately make clean kills out to 80 yards. It could probably go a fair bit further but I wouldn't be confident enough
Otto Mercer I'm guessing your a British hunter and are thus by far a better shot than the average American. Brits shoot better where Americans just use brutal force and hope for the best... When I compare hunting videos of Americans and Brits, the latter are in general more humane as well..yesterday I've seen an American video where the guy was shooting groundhogs and while he took them down they were all but humane kills...one was still breathing after he casually walked the 30-40 yards over there and then we could all enjoy some footage of a dying groundhog instead of finishing it right away..that shit isn't normal to me.
***** When did china get involved in american vs brits politics? You're just upset because they took away your tea! You don't think Americans use exaggerated brute force in every fucking situation? Who dropped the first A-bomb? Who claimed that you dont have to run because he'll find us in the hospital after his wife shot us and that he'll kill us? Oh...yeah, fuck me, that was you...on august 22 2014 :) I also noticed you calling everybody a dum fuck or an ignorant bastard so the weight of your words seem a bit lost if we're all ignorant fucks..but hey, that's cool my asian brother from another brothel. Anyway: Fuck you and hurray for the first amendment that says i'm entitled to my opinion, namingly:MOST americans can't hunt, they just make sure to bring enough firepower to cause enough damage to kill or severly wound. And the smaller the calibre, the more true it is..airguns in .177...you wouldn't be able to take down a fucking rat with a clean kill Secundo, i'm also free to express my opinion :D Huzzah!!! If you don't agree with me on that you're just as bad as the terrorists who crashed into the twin towers my sideways-vagina-eyed friend... Oh yeah...the bastard part...you as well are entitled to your opinion, that doesn't mean i care about it or that it pisses me off...i'm glad i touched you though...in your feelings...
atzerath "MOST americans can't hunt" Any statistics, Polls, Studies, Facts, To back up that statement? Or is it just more bullshit like the rest of that rant?
What a great feature phill. I was always led to believe that the .20 calibre was the king of pellets but on this account the .177 blows this theory out the water and the old saying of ' the heavier the lead knocks 'em dead', ain't so true after all. So glad my air arms tdr is a .177 which I believe to be the most true and accurate calibre..good work. Atb, paul.
Speed matters when it comes to shape of the projectile. Fact is in your test you are using a weapon restricted to sub 12 FPE. This test would be turned on it’s head in an FAC air rifle. E=mc2. If I shot that little block of wax with a .22 cal Daisy Hollow Point @ 900 FPS you would be picking up pieces from all over the place and then again if I shot that wax with say my .25 cal LCS pushing a H&N Crow Magnum at 960 FPS+ it would practically disappear. I understand this test is with sub 12 FPE airguns in mind but my point is it’s not just the caliber and shape that’s important but the SPEED of said ammo. In the larger calibers at sub 12 levels the ammo doesn’t go as fast as smaller caliber lighter weight ammo does. With respect sir…This test may have relevance in the UK at your legal limit but does not stay true outside of that limitation elsewhere where FPE is unrestricted.
Are Wad cutters are like hollow points it is meant to flatten at impact which causes more internal damage however because it flattens it doesn’t go through
in my experience accuracy is all important, if you just choose a heavy pellet but it is not accurate its a waste of time, same as a light pellet that doesnt kill, which brings me on to my point, what is the difference between the structure of a rabbits head and the density of the medium you used, would it not have been better to use clay the size of a rabbits head? and get a far better comparison? as we know how a regulater works surely there is some comparison between the maths, slower, bigger, harder hitting on a smaller target as opposed to faster lighter ( . .? . . ) hitting on the same size target?? good video brings up some good points.
I have a Benji np2 in .22 with a 4x16x40 and shooting 14.3g @100 yds or a little bit more still on target and retaining power,75 yds or less this thing is vicious,shooting ,super quiet,PBA armor is other story,fast,accurate, hard hitters,best break barrel rifle ever
I think.power speed equates to accuracy the low powered 22 and 25 in the UK which are not fire arms don’t cut it I shot a 25 aspen 50 joules at least at 70 yards hitting a stick the size of a straw.
I dont hunt anymore, but I used to get the best results by far with RWS Hobby. For .22 they weigh 11.9gr so the lightest full metal pellet ive found. They fly fast, flat and accurate and they hit hard with that extra velocity from low weight. I tried RWS Super H Point, but I found the accuracy a tiny bit out, and the weight made them drop a bit quicker than I like.
Well I have already tried and have succeeded.. 18yd head shot while hunting over a road kill.. The Lum 77 ultra mag pellets by crosman are crazy accurate.. The yote dropped with one shot. No yips or bark.
+steelhanded11 never said it wasn't possible the shot just has to be perfect, I almost got a good size male white tail with my .22 air rifle it was probably 10yd away but I hit the horn....
Good expansion and penetration test but each pellet should have also been tested for accuracy. Big holes mean nothing if you can't hit your target. Most of those "hunter pellets" and "ultra dupa amour piercing steel fin stabilized sabot pellets" are rubbish and inaccurate compared to good round nose pellets like JSB Exacts. But your conclusion makes up for it. ^^
I agree with you on pellets having to be accurate. There seem to be variances as to what velocity is best for accuracy as there are different types of pellets. That being said, there probably isn't a single ideal pellet for hunting. If you have a very powerful gun and are planning on shooting at 50 yards, you probably would want to consider a heavy domed pellet. On the other hand, if you are shooting at close range you may consider a diabolo or hollow point pellet. I find that with Crosman premier .22 cal. hollow points, I can group within 1/3" out to 30 yards but when I go beyond that distance the groups open up rapidly. With the JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy .22 cal. pellets I'm consistently grouping 1/3" groups out to 50 yards. I've even gotten some sub 1/4" groups at that distance with the JSB pellets. I could never do that with the Crosman Premier hollow points at that distance. Pellet selection depends on circumstances. Just my 2 cents.
great video and research! the best pellet is the the most accurate of course but side by side comparison is great. It would be nice to see all of the casts together so you can compare two pellets that are equally accurate. Also interesting to see how good the hollowpoints are! for me they are fine to 25 meters which is ideal rat range. All this was known in the early 1990s when I first started shooting but as I said good to see its still true.
My Hatsan AT 44 in .25 cal is super accurate. Im getting around 42fpe and Im about to send it in to get tuned to shoot a little over 50fpe. Its a more versatile pellet, you can take squirrels and medium sized hogs with the same gun. I wouldnt feel bad taking a doe with a head shot with my .25 cal. 35gr or 40gr pellet. I would never try that with a .177 pellet.
I live in the states and have over 17 different air riles pcp break break nitro piston and also have some pump models . all from .177 , .22 , .20 , .25 , and 357 Rouge . I have shot ever type of pellet off of pyidmid air .com and have tested I'm gel meat and clay . I found that the the h&r rabbit magnums in .177 and .22 work very well on birds rabbits squrille and also fox and coon and coyotes . in the .25 the h&r grizzly works well for hog deer . I have also shot the Ben rough 357 and found that I could cast my own bullets to meet my hunting needs. I encourage everyone to try the h&n pellets . and I advise if you trying to find a good pellet that will hit the target and group try a round nose or slug type . hollow points are good but tend to not group well in all guns . hope this helps yall out
I know the .177 trajectory will always have les ark than .22 or .25 with the same amount of power behind it but suppose you are comparing a 12 fpe .177 with a 30+ fpe .22. I have a 32 fpe air rifle chambered in .22. It sends a 18.13 grain out of the muzzle at an average of 890 fps. I also have gotten sum 1/4" groups at 50 yards using those JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets. My average group size at that distance is .35". That's head shot to a squirrel accuracy at 50 yards. The heavier weight of the .22 pellets gives them a lower velocity at the same muzzle with the same energy thus causing them to expel more of their energy into the target. I know that .177 pellets shot into wood with the same amount of energy behind them as .comparable .22 pellets, will penetrate deeper than their .22 counterparts. On the other hand, If limited to 12 foot pounds I would have to agree with you. The difference in trajectory is much more important when you are limited to that amount of energy. As to accuracy, it seems that just below 900 fps is where air plays tricks on accuracy with most pellets. For that reason, I use the heavier pellets rather than the lighter ones such as RWS Hobby pellets. The lighter 11.9 grain pellets leave the muzzle at 1010 fps on average out of this gun and that's a bit fast for accuracy. If we compare the same pellets, one in .177 limited to 12 foot pounds of energy and the other in .22 with 32 foot pounds of energy behind it. The .22 would leave the muzzle at 825 fps and the .177 would leave the muzzle at 710 fps. If the .22 version of the pellet were shot out of a sub 12 foot pound gun, it would only leave the muzzle at 505 fps making the trajectory worse than with the .177 at sub 12 foot pounds, so in that case .177 would be far preferable. On the other hand when the .22 pellets are able to leave the muzzle at over 800 fps., I don't think trajectory is going to be an issue. Any time the same energy is behind a pellet when comparing a .177 to a higher caliber comparable pellet, the .177 will have a flatter trajectory but when the velocity goes above 900 fps or so, you're better off increasing the weight of the pellet rather than worrying about trajectory. Let me say that I agree with you within the parameters of sub 12 foot pound air rifles but any time a pellet of any caliber can achieve the ideal velocity for accuracy, then more weight with the larger cross section of a higher caliber would be a benefit. The larger cross section causes the pellet to expel more if it's energy on target and the added weight allows the pellet to retain more energy at greater distances. I like the way you used those plaster cores to make your point, that sure was eye opening as to the difference between different types of pellets.
The chosen 1 Understood, I've never shot a shooting video before but I guess I'll have to try as soon as I get more JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets. Those are the only pellets I've found that achieve that kind of accuracy with my gun. What would you want me to do to prove the distance I'm shooting from is actually 50 yards? I don't know if my camera can zoom in enough to show the shot placement if the camera is focused on the target from my shooting position. I can always place the camera near the target which would show the shot placement but it would be difficult to give the viewers a true since of the distance. I'll do my best though but I probably will not get to it for a while since it's been windy, cold, or rainy around here lately. I know the cold doesn't affect accuracy but it affects the shooter, at least in my case. I hate cold weather. I never realized that that accuracy was so exceptional since I am used to shooting my Anschutz rim-fire rifle. When comparing to that, this kind of accuracy seems rather ordinary. I will say that I never expected to get this kind of accuracy out of a sub $300 air rifle though.
For all those plugs you made, did you make sure the terracotta wax was the same temperature or bring in account any temp variations? Warmer wax will allow for a greater hole than colder wax, which is harder. A hot or a cold day will make a great difference. Even morning or afternoon... Consistency is key.
For the love of God… with all his attention to mass and point design, you are questioning his temperature controls?!? I am so embarrassed for your need to comment on such a ridiculously minor detail… Do us a favor and wait until you have something worth sharing before you make a comment. Temperature is so far down the hunting scale of variables that it isn’t worth a millisecond of thought. Sorry, but seriously, dude!!
Your wax creates non-elastic cavities as opposed to flesh, which creates elastic ones known as "transient cavitation". The gaping, fixed cavities gives the impression that airguns are far more damaging to flesh than they really are (by the way, dental stone is faster-setting, more durable, and shows far more detail than Plaster of Paris). You are also confusing relative cavity size with lethality when other factors such as penetration can be of more importance. Consider that I can make a larger-volume cavity in your wax with a casual movement of my booted foot. Is my boot toe cavity to be considered more deadly that either of your pellets?
I have also undertaking a lot of testing in various materials, and they all only show, how the pellet reacts in that material, modelling clay is nothing like the skin, flesh, muscle and bone of live quarry, hence you will never find pellet damage in quarry that looks anything like the exaggerated holes produced in clay. This video is not in anyway a scientific study.
Interesting but ifn I am not accurate I need more practice. Loaned my 32ish year old Sheridan Blue Streak to a pal with a groundhog problem. (then). Five pumps for a woodchuck surprised me...Now I've two, loves the weight/open sights. RWS 48/52 model from the nineties passed thru 19 empty beer cans(touching side to side)..one wobbled a bit, twentieth fell off wida dent, I thought was nuff for small skull if off a bit. Fahh, that rifle is heavy for free handing all said. Grains? I chucked the higher priced pellets. RWS pells sooked. They near seemed to get stuck. Super H seems ok to me. Either..if pops a few cans from sixty yards my gal giggles and sez get me a squirrel. Cool vid, thanks bub. Now I wanna form modeling clay squirrels 'n such. lol, freeze Gopher!
Without knowing the velocities and weights of the pellets and actual results on animal testing, the shapes of the cavity made by the pellets in the clay blocks are meaningless but does offer some speculation. Conclusions should be based on actual animal testing.
long range power is much different - 177 loses lots of energy quickly. 25 caliber is very accurate at range so your pellet choices may be making the difference. New tests at 30 yard would be more interesting. Also there is really nothing like actually shooting game to see the impact differences of different pellets. Tedsholdover is a good example of that.
it is also different when the british are using their fac guns so maximum 15 pounds i belive.. when you shoot .25 at 40-60 pounds they do fly accurately for a long distance.
I was most curious about the .20 caliber, i have a benjamin 392 in that, the standard benjamin 14.3 gr. is what i am using, i haven't experimented with any other kind of ammo, it goes completely through tin cans and embeds itself for at least it's own body length or a bit longer into wooden pallets slats though.
It makes a you have a magnum Springer that shoots at least 22 ft lb rather than 11 or 12 lb I have a Diana 350 Magnum in the Diana 48 they both shoot really hard compared to my Beeman in R9 22
I think they're all good but I have my own preferences, I just use 22 and 25 for long distances, for better hit results considering the fact that they are heavy hitters.
Great research Sir, and believe ME your RESULTS have clearly made my next choice a GAMO 177 air rifle for hunting game up to Hog size! I was leaning toward a 357 Benjamin, but need the long distance accuracy more than the knockdown power of a larger caliber! I choose to ENGAGE my targets from ambush cover anyway!
if you are going to hunt hogs with an air rifle, cool. make sure you either buddy hunt and or you have a real weapon with you. theres not a .177 on the planet that can reliably take a big pig in a emergency, that air rifle wont mean squat if you get charged. you really should go with the benjamin 357 bull pup if hogs is whats on your list. sure, you CAN do it with .177 but how well, how reliably? how humanely? how safely? .177 is too light imo even though you see people on youtube do it. sure they killed one, but how do you know they didnt not show you all the failures before they got that one shot drop? a hog shoulder is pretty small and a rear quatering shot is a good way to take them, .177 might do it reliably, a hog skull even a small one is pretty thick and .177 probably isnt reliable at range one that. a .357, .45 or .50 air missle is just a better choice, of course backed up by a real gun and or a buddy.
+metamorphicorder I agree. I wouldn't go hog hunting with a pellet rifle. Same with other large animals. For persistent humane kills, anything larger than rabbits, squirrels, or ducks (such as fox, raccoon, coyote, etc) requires a true firearm - or one hell of a pellet rifle. The firearm would be cheaper.
I’m impressed about you using clay instead of gel. The plaster molding revealed expansion better. Have you considered distance too? I usually shoot 40-50 yards. A 0.177 just won’t retain accuracy.
A couple of gripes. The moulding wax is not the same thickness for the pellets fired, I know it's only slight. Second you only show 1 plaster cast of each pellet, surely you should have done a lot more to show us the variations obtained by 1 particular pellet.
Not to burst your bubble but here in America we can get great accuracy and large powerful airguns. That is to say that British guns are probably more accurate but Americans don't have to deal with that because we have much more powerful guns that aren't limited to 12 ft-lbs, so we can use whatever pellet is most accurate...
With a 1,000 fps PCP .22 cal I've seen all the skirted types drop just short of the target that a round ball type is hitting every shot. So I know what I'm using for my long range shooting. $0.02
Velocity also plays a large role in penetration.I've got a gun that shoots a BB at almost mach 3 and it will shoot through a dollar coin.I've got the video on my channel."World's Fastest BB Gun"
Unless I missed it, this video really didn't answer the question asked in the video title (what caliber makes the biggest hole). That's entirely unrelated to the accuracy of individual pellets.
For me the bottom line is; find the type of pellet that gives the tightest groups when fired from a particular gun. Terminal ballistic performance is irrelevant if you miss the mark. High quality round nose diabolo pellets like AA Field, JSB Exact and Webley Mosquito tend to give the best groups in my experience.
Unlike other hobbies/sports, it's great to see everyone on this message board being informative with their knowledge and gained stats. It's hard to troll in a constantly evolving sport. It's like drag racing, it used to be the big blocks that dominated the sport, now it's tweaked 4 bangers that keep the pace. Thanks for keeping the sport clean.
UK airguns are under powered, of course only .177 would be best.
US airguns don't have limits and push a .25 in the same hole on the dot.
Depends on what your shooting?we don’t have wild boars running around so there’s never need for more.thing is though British Airguns are built properly.you can buy any old American tat of a gun and it will shoot good as it’s pushing 950 FPS .so now there’s no skill as your trajectory to 70 meters is flat.
@@andyfry745 950 is not all that flat. Still a good 15 inches of drop out to 70M.
@@andyfry745 ah yes , another redcoat salty at the fact the colonist have better firepower. Chin up mate, you'll do fine with your "red riders" and slingshots 🤣
@@andyfry745 Try 1050 FPS with a .25 cal 30gr hollowpoint slug. You Brits are using 12 ft/lb guns and here in the US we are easily clearing 72 ft/lb....
I am very new to air gunning. I have a Hatsan Mod 125 .177. I have wrestled with my choice of .177 vs .22. Thank you for your extremely informative piece on pellet performance. As a result I have just obtained my first PCP in .177 caliber.
My aa s410 shooting at 11.7ft lbs with jsb exacts is perfect for all uses in my opinion
thanks, really useful video. i was considering 177 heavies, got bogged down earlier in BC data will now stick with midrange aa diablo field.
Really informative, thak you for sharing!
I choose the .177 for accuracy and there is one still in my nose cavity since childhood. One still must consider that too much energy is overkill when it comes to impact. The correct amount of energy allows the weight/speed of the projectile to move through the mass of a target at perfect velocity. Like as soon as the projectile exits the Mellon all the energy has been expelled. If one were to send a projectile at any weight at extreme speeds the projectile will continue onwards leaving large cavities behind its path due to the energy behind the projectile. So since I have had this projectile in my nose for 50 years I decided a good smacking of the perfect weight and speed will do the trick. All the energy that comes with the projectile remains centered in the center of the target as it finds it's exit point, doing massive damage. So no massive exit hole but a massive interior hole.
.177😂😂
I used to have an old filthy 760 pumpmaster and with 7 pumps and destroyer pellets, i could shoot through the entire squirrel and catch the pellet in the skin on the other side. The perfect amount of power is super satisfying. I could shoot squirrels even if there were houses or windows behind them and not worry about overpenatration. Really helped to see the flight path through the squirrel because an exit wound can be really hard to find vs a hard bump under the skin.
, \
@@justinmeeks3575 Edited, thanks. I also shot thousands of rounds from the vulcan before they retired them after the wall came down.
the .25 is very accurate, watch ted's holdover he is very accurate he shot a pigeon at 160 yards. .25 buck the wind a lot better to, so i prefer .25 cal round nose.
Woodsman101 not with a 12fp he didnt
Yeah but the uk has rolled where .25 is 12fpe ~450fps, that's comparable to an airsoft gun...
Andy BlinkBlink 425fps in .25 cal is very underpowered but the airsoft bb still doesn’t compare to it
@@andyblinkblink4198 Yes, UK air gun channels have little credibility due to the ridiculously low velocity.
@@edgarlombera7066 I'm talking about the fps
He spent 30 years of his life to say that 😂😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣
😂😂😂 his body moving lost his confidence minute by minute
Thank you for your superb research! Tour plaster casts of shot cavities provide a superb comparison of projectile effectiveness! It is such a simple, yet effective, tool for comparing ballistic effectiveness. I’m astonished that nobody has thought of this before now. Well I live in the United States, where there aren’t nearly as many rules about ammunition, I can still completely appreciate Your comparison of projectile effectiveness. Thank God I have finally found somebody who uses the scientific, yet common sense, approach to projectile selection. Thank you so much for your video!
I am new to airgunning and I found this video to be VERY informative! Thank you very much for sharing this.
You shouldn't be thanking him. He doesn't know what he's talking about and is giving completely false and innacurate information. I hope you watch other professionals and educated air gunners who can give you good information. Do not listen to this fool
and if you want my advice for accuracy and good energy downrange choose a pellet weight that keep your velocity under the speed of sound 1130fps or even a bit lower to avoid transonic speed .
that way you have the maximum energy your rifle can deliver with maximum accuracy.
you still need to find the brand or type of pellet your gun like the most !!!
Great video, I live in the US in a state without any limitations, of course pcp bottle guns in 22, 25,30 or larger are better hunting guns. At what point does a person say it's not safe to shoot this powerful a gun where conventional firearms are restricted? I'll stick to .177 pellets and slugs unless I'm where it's safe to shoot more powerful guns where I switch to a 17hmr, 22 hornet or 220 swift.
For what it's worth I found the .25 pellet was devastating when dispatching magpies....straight kill every time ...Big hole and all their blood seemed to empty ......Every time .
.177 is only superior to .22 in accuracy when you're limited to 12ft/lb air rifles. At high energies the trajectory of .22 generally becomes much flatter and predictable.
i've achieved 1/2" (1.27cm) groupings with 15.4 grain Gamo red fire pellets at an average of 980ft/s (298.7m/s) muzzle velocity at a distance of 50 yards (45.72 meters)
*all shots taken without moving on bench rest, exact distance measured from muzzle end to target plus or minus a couple of inches*
Yeah used to grade all might pellets an pick the heavier 177 over lighter on our crappy 11/12 ft/lbs where stuck with but with a few tweaks an polishing an good seals abd springs could get close to fac levels with 1000fps 177s an even more powerfull 22s could get pellet choice makes a difference light pellets wen faster but shot worse groups will heavys shot better too. I could unscew a pop bottles at 30meters on my old 50s no name guns ever time people would make bets it was not possible.... Little did they know I practice on really small targets like coins toy soldiers an bugs at long distance. I cud shoot the cherry off a fag the quarter an half three quarters..never any takers to shoot one out there mouth tho even though I've sowed it done 5 6 times an could clover leaf rounds at way longer distance's. Its like a had a built it targeting computer
This may have been true in 2014 but my .25 is hitting hole on hole at 50 yds.
Wind is also a factor.
.177s drift much easier.
What if your ammo drops? Do you still want less fpe or a smaller cavity?
More chance of wounding. Ethics.
Try the H&N Baracuda Hunter in .177, that's a hard hitter and I'd like to see the cavity cast in plaster. Very accurate too.
Agree with the .25 accuracy, ive missed things 30 yards out on a perfectly scoped gun.
So after testing of my own found that a .177, .20 and .22 will hit it, but the .25 didnt.
I also found that a .177 will make a clean nice hole, and keep on going
but the .20 and .22 makes big ass holes.
Ive been using .22 ever since.
Ive also learned to spend a couple more bucks and get half the pellets, but get lead free.
They do alot more damage then the led.
+samljer Depends on WHAT .25 you are shooting and the weight of the pellet...
you really learn how to shoot a .25 specifically and you won't miss
Oh what a surprise, the heaviest and biggest pellet made the biggest hole
😂😂
Very precise data this man has, very well composed experiment and video. Much appreciated!
I like this test. It tells us two very important things -- assuming a given pellet is accurate in your gun:
1)At the same FPE, middle weight pellets for a caliber are better -- assuming you're getting the accuracy, because accuracy trumps power (true of everything)
2) Americans, we should all run this sort of test with our own guns, because here we aren't limited to 12 FPE. A 17 FPE is going to maybe have different results. His .25 is inaccurate, but it's underpowered. Our .25s are accurate way out there, so we can take advantage of that massive shockwave.
I plan to do this test, if I can get that wax. And I don't find it financially prohibitive. I'll take the pellets I find most accurate, and then run them thru the wax. The results will only be totally valid for my gun, but it's gonna tell me loads.
I suspect that the wax would be more applicable to body shots where some skull penetration is required for head shots on small game. I have been able to get some scary accuracy with a cheap Gamo in .177 and .22 cal. within 20 yards. I will be exploring beyond that soon and I am curious as to how the .22 will do at 75 yards. I still see it as not necessary to shoot that far for small game, I think if you can deliver a 1.5" group at 50 yards, you got the hunting side covered.
I own a .22 Walther Terrus very accurate, im looking at getting a .20 Hw30s next. I don’t like .177, .20 seems interesting to me. Hopefully they keep making pellets for it
.20 pellets, relatively speaking, have superior BC to .177 or .22
You could also use a pork shoulder or leg from the butchers to shoot, which I'm sure if close to shooting flesh.
Very very interesting as i have always thought that a slower heavy pellet had more knock down power and used .177 Bisley Magnum's in my HW97 which are very accurate and good on head shot rabbits but recently had problems with close range 15-20 yards heart shot magpies and jackdaws which weren't always dropping to the shot as they would with a .22cal, so after watching this i will be looking at a few different pellets like hollow points for the job. Great Video fellas.
As mentioned I'm some previous comments here. Pellet weight is crucial I'm not sure that disipation of energy is the be all and end all of shooting. pellets should be matched to the gun and the rifling. My gun needs a heavy pellet to keep it stable otherwise the pellet starts getting all loopy. It prefers a 5.52head diameter too
Charlie, I'm thinking that Phil is talking about .25 spring guns and not the PCP. I've seen what Ted Beir has done at long range and it is pretty impressive. Now with my FX Impact II in .25 with 700mm Barrel I'm hoping to get close.... might take a few years...miss the boys at Airheads... which them all well.
D Forr He's speaking for the UK air rifles. .25 doing less than 500 fps is a waste of a great caliber
"do you like a teeny tiny little hole, or do you like a great big hole?"
- thats a great question my friend.
10% ballistics gelatin or Clear Gel offers a consistent standardized medium which the effects of bullet wounds can be simulated and reproduced. Wax and clay demonstrate the effect of the bullet's maximum temporary stretch cavity
I can vouch for the inaccuracy of the .25.I fired 10 shots at a Pepsi bottle a couple of days ago, and didn't hit it once. Then I switched to my .177, same result. I suspect it's because I'm a terrible shot rather than any inaccuracy inherent in the gun. Moral of the story... I guess the better a shot you are the more accurate the gun is going to be. One day I'll hit something, even if it's not the thing I'm aiming at. I'll just be delighted to hit something, be it a tree, a rabbit, a child's eye...
Hang it there mate! You will do fine some day haha :)
Are you using a scope on your rifle? If so: it might be sighted in wrongly and therefore making it impossible to hit anything. Try taking the scope off and start shooting with iron sights, if these are adjustable then make sure they are set correctly.
Cheers
shots at a Pepsi bottle a couple of days ago.....ROTFL.......LOL
John Smith Get closer and use a big piece of paper as a target. Aim at one point as accurately as you can and fire 3 times. Go look at your grouping; it could just be your gun is not sighted in and not your aiming ability. Had an old .22 with canted/bent sights but got used to it being off a bit to the right and became pinpoint accurate with it.
John Smith Not all guns are created equal. What were you using? I've seen .25's that are just as accurate as .177's, and vice versa. It's not the caliber, it's the quality of the gun and the skill of the shooter.
Take the Hatsan 125 in .25 for example. Accurate as accurate can be, and hits like a truck.
Hahaha this made me laugh out loud
Well in my 33 years of hunting I've always used weihrauch spring rifles on rabbits in .22 with either eley wasp until they went to shite or rws hobby and let me tell you a little some rws are accurate out to 40/45 yards out of my hw80 sub inch 10 shot groups and I've never had a rabbit run just drop like a stone with a .22 .177 is a target round 22 is a hunting caliber yes it takes a bit more time to learn/practice as more hold over and hold under is needed basically you have to be a good marksman to use a the .22 effectively
Sir what would be your choice a gas spring or a normal spring? I hear so many mixed opinions.
@@FrenchViking466 a normal spring as I'm traditional
I'm wondering...there seems to be a difference between temporary cavitation and permanent cavitation.
These plaster casts show temporary cavitation, but even then , it fails to consider the cavity limitations placed on the tissue by the presence of bone and differing muscular densities.
In not knocking this video, by any means. The information presented here has its place, and is quite interesting.
"There's no such thing as too big."
MrHolowPoint
The only varmint I was killing with my .177 was small varmints such as birds, Chipmunk, squirrels, rabbits at 30-35 yards. However, with both of my .22 and .25 I was able to kill large Jack Rabbits, Raccoons, Possums, Ground Hogs, Woodchuck at 25-30 yards out. My .22 is powerful. But my .25 has so much more knockdown power and I always count on it's accuracy and power to take out whatever I hit. So far as the .177 goes.... They are for the birds. And us grown folks are playing with .25
And that PCP you are using to shoot these varmints, well I can use my .25 that gives off the same energy and kill that same prey.
Use the H&N 22 hollow points aswell!!
Excellent review one of the best I've seen, thanks for posting .........
A heavier pellet will retain more energy at longer range thus hit harder, jsb heavies.177 are great.
Pedro i have the .22 black ops tactical air rifle . And i find crosman destroyer pellets do the job. Rat's mink, and magpies stops them no problem.
Fantastic video Sir. I recently bought a BSA R10 MK VC Carbine and tried different pellets. The main ones I got with the gun were RWS Superfield which rifle was pre-sighted in with as was told it was a heavyish type pellet and heavy pellets are meant to give better results with PCP and more accurate and shocking power. The others I got were RWS Superdomes which are a bit lighter.... the superdomes were a lot more accurate as it seems you could drive nails in with them putting hole through hold each shot. I ran out of theses so continued with superfield and with a few tweaks to the windage and elevation turrets they are performing better, but still not as good. So seems to me that the lighter ones are better and the old myth of springer performing better with light and PCP perform better with heavy is out of the window in my opinion. Only issue I may find is lighter pellet will be less accurate at longer distance I suppose, but yet to try my rifle at 25 / 30 meters as not had chance
.25 not accurate?? You've got to be kidding.. For UK 12 ft/lb, maybe, because its got a flat trajectory, but when your using 30-60 ft/lb .25 is the king.. .177 is accurate, no doubt, but when your making, lets say 50 yd shots, wind is a factor (because we hunt outside) .25 barely needs windage.. Vs .177 whoa, watch out.. Not to mention the retained energy is massive compared to the .177 that decelerates quite rapidly. I have every caliber, springers, pcp, pumps, beeman, rws marauder, airforce, etc and have been into this sport with passion since before people knew what the internet was, lol.. But, I'd just like to say that in my personal experience, with my abilities, .25 (Condor SS) has been the most accurate and reliable performer, than any of the other cals.. My two cents.....
Never had to hold more than a couple of mil dots with my sub 12flb 177 using bisley magnums. Can very accurately make clean kills out to 80 yards. It could probably go a fair bit further but I wouldn't be confident enough
You are spot on. The .25 is King (pun intended). Sit down with a Cricket shooting 50 plus foot pounds and your opinion will change about the .25
Otto Mercer I'm guessing your a British hunter and are thus by far a better shot than the average American. Brits shoot better where Americans just use brutal force and hope for the best...
When I compare hunting videos of Americans and Brits, the latter are in general more humane as well..yesterday I've seen an American video where the guy was shooting groundhogs and while he took them down they were all but humane kills...one was still breathing after he casually walked the 30-40 yards over there and then we could all enjoy some footage of a dying groundhog instead of finishing it right away..that shit isn't normal to me.
***** When did china get involved in american vs brits politics? You're just upset because they took away your tea!
You don't think Americans use exaggerated brute force in every fucking situation? Who dropped the first A-bomb?
Who claimed that you dont have to run because he'll find us in the hospital after his wife shot us and that he'll kill us?
Oh...yeah, fuck me, that was you...on august 22 2014 :)
I also noticed you calling everybody a dum fuck or an ignorant bastard so the weight of your words seem a bit lost if we're all ignorant fucks..but hey, that's cool my asian brother from another brothel.
Anyway: Fuck you and hurray for the first amendment that says i'm entitled to my opinion, namingly:MOST americans can't hunt, they just make sure to bring enough firepower to cause enough damage to kill or severly wound. And the smaller the calibre, the more true it is..airguns in .177...you wouldn't be able to take down a fucking rat with a clean kill
Secundo, i'm also free to express my opinion :D Huzzah!!! If you don't agree with me on that you're just as bad as the terrorists who crashed into the twin towers my sideways-vagina-eyed friend...
Oh yeah...the bastard part...you as well are entitled to your opinion, that doesn't mean i care about it or that it pisses me off...i'm glad i touched you though...in your feelings...
atzerath "MOST americans can't hunt"
Any statistics, Polls, Studies, Facts, To back up that statement? Or is it just more bullshit like the rest of that rant?
What a great feature phill. I was always led to believe that the .20 calibre was the king of pellets but on this account the .177 blows this theory out the water and the old saying of ' the heavier the lead knocks 'em dead', ain't so true after all.
So glad my air arms tdr is a .177 which I believe to be the most true and accurate calibre..good work.
Atb, paul.
You know nothing
@@papayaman78 Where is your video or visual evidence? Do you have any?
Iv always used 177 and always will, hands down the best pellet size.
Maybe in sub 12, anything above 12fpe the bigger caliber is better
Speed matters when it comes to shape of the projectile. Fact is in your test you are using a weapon restricted to sub 12 FPE. This test would be turned on it’s head in an FAC air rifle. E=mc2. If I shot that little block of wax with a .22 cal Daisy Hollow Point @ 900 FPS you would be picking up pieces from all over the place and then again if I shot that wax with say my .25 cal LCS pushing a H&N Crow Magnum at 960 FPS+ it would practically disappear. I understand this test is with sub 12 FPE airguns in mind but my point is it’s not just the caliber and shape that’s important but the SPEED of said ammo. In the larger calibers at sub 12 levels the ammo doesn’t go as fast as smaller caliber lighter weight ammo does. With respect sir…This test may have relevance in the UK at your legal limit but does not stay true outside of that limitation elsewhere where FPE is unrestricted.
Are Wad cutters are like hollow points it is meant to flatten at impact which causes more internal damage however because it flattens it doesn’t go through
in my experience accuracy is all important, if you just choose a heavy pellet but it is not accurate its a waste of time, same as a light pellet that doesnt kill, which brings me on to my point, what is the difference between the structure of a rabbits head and the density of the medium you used, would it not have been better to use clay the size of a rabbits head? and get a far better comparison? as we know how a regulater works surely there is some comparison between the maths, slower, bigger, harder hitting on a smaller target as opposed to faster lighter ( . .? . . ) hitting on the same size target?? good video brings up some good points.
I have a Benji np2 in .22 with a 4x16x40 and shooting 14.3g @100 yds or a little bit more still on target and retaining power,75 yds or less this thing is vicious,shooting ,super quiet,PBA armor is other story,fast,accurate, hard hitters,best break barrel rifle ever
So thankful I live in the USA. Gooo .17 and .22 cal.
Heavy pellets travelling fast always will yield the best results. .25 at 30ftlb will drop any small and medium game you want
Well informed very professional video. Thank you very much.
I think.power speed equates to accuracy the low powered 22 and 25 in the UK which are not fire arms don’t cut it I shot a 25 aspen 50 joules at least at 70 yards hitting a stick the size of a straw.
I dont hunt anymore, but I used to get the best results by far with RWS Hobby. For .22 they weigh 11.9gr so the lightest full metal pellet ive found. They fly fast, flat and accurate and they hit hard with that extra velocity from low weight. I tried RWS Super H Point, but I found the accuracy a tiny bit out, and the weight made them drop a bit quicker than I like.
Do you think the 11.9 in .177 cal head shot within 20yds would kill a coyote?? Diana model 48 rated at 1100fps
+steelhanded11 I dont know to be honest
+steelhanded11 it can from really close but it won't be really humane
Well I have already tried and have succeeded.. 18yd head shot while hunting over a road kill.. The Lum 77 ultra mag pellets by crosman are crazy accurate.. The yote dropped with one shot. No yips or bark.
+steelhanded11 never said it wasn't possible the shot just has to be perfect, I almost got a good size male white tail with my .22 air rifle it was probably 10yd away but I hit the horn....
Good expansion and penetration test but each pellet should have also been tested for accuracy. Big holes mean nothing if you can't hit your target.
Most of those "hunter pellets" and "ultra dupa amour piercing steel fin stabilized sabot pellets" are rubbish and inaccurate compared to good round nose pellets like JSB Exacts.
But your conclusion makes up for it. ^^
I agree with you on pellets having to be accurate. There seem to be variances as to what velocity is best for accuracy as there are different types of pellets. That being said, there probably isn't a single ideal pellet for hunting. If you have a very powerful gun and are planning on shooting at 50 yards, you probably would want to consider a heavy domed pellet. On the other hand, if you are shooting at close range you may consider a diabolo or hollow point pellet. I find that with Crosman premier .22 cal. hollow points, I can group within 1/3" out to 30 yards but when I go beyond that distance the groups open up rapidly. With the JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy .22 cal. pellets I'm consistently grouping 1/3" groups out to 50 yards. I've even gotten some sub 1/4" groups at that distance with the JSB pellets. I could never do that with the Crosman Premier hollow points at that distance. Pellet selection depends on circumstances.
Just my 2 cents.
2lbsTrigrPull I
great video and research! the best pellet is the the most accurate of course but side by side comparison is great. It would be nice to see all of the casts together so you can compare two pellets that are equally accurate. Also interesting to see how good the hollowpoints are! for me they are fine to 25 meters which is ideal rat range. All this was known in the early 1990s when I first started shooting but as I said good to see its still true.
I am going to try the Gamo PBA Raptor in my Sig Sauer P320 Co2 to get rid of invasive Muscovy ducks
My Hatsan AT 44 in .25 cal is super accurate. Im getting around 42fpe and Im about to send it in to get tuned to shoot a little over 50fpe. Its a more versatile pellet, you can take squirrels and medium sized hogs with the same gun. I wouldnt feel bad taking a doe with a head shot with my .25 cal. 35gr or 40gr pellet. I would never try that with a .177 pellet.
I live in the states and have over 17 different air riles pcp break break nitro piston and also have some pump models . all from .177 , .22 , .20 , .25 , and 357 Rouge . I have shot ever type of pellet off of pyidmid air .com and have tested I'm gel meat and clay . I found that the the h&r rabbit magnums in .177 and .22 work very well on birds rabbits squrille and also fox and coon and coyotes . in the .25 the h&r grizzly works well for hog deer . I have also shot the Ben rough 357 and found that I could cast my own bullets to meet my hunting needs. I encourage everyone to try the h&n pellets . and I advise if you trying to find a good pellet that will hit the target and group try a round nose or slug type . hollow points are good but tend to not group well in all guns . hope this helps yall out
I know the .177 trajectory will always have les ark than .22 or .25 with the same amount of power behind it but suppose you are comparing a 12 fpe .177 with a 30+ fpe .22. I have a 32 fpe air rifle chambered in .22. It sends a 18.13 grain out of the muzzle at an average of 890 fps. I also have gotten sum 1/4" groups at 50 yards using those JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets. My average group size at that distance is .35". That's head shot to a squirrel accuracy at 50 yards. The heavier weight of the .22 pellets gives them a lower velocity at the same muzzle with the same energy thus causing them to expel more of their energy into the target. I know that .177 pellets shot into wood with the same amount of energy behind them as .comparable .22 pellets, will penetrate deeper than their .22 counterparts.
On the other hand, If limited to 12 foot pounds I would have to agree with you. The difference in trajectory is much more important when you are limited to that amount of energy. As to accuracy, it seems that just below 900 fps is where air plays tricks on accuracy with most pellets. For that reason, I use the heavier pellets rather than the lighter ones such as RWS Hobby pellets. The lighter 11.9 grain pellets leave the muzzle at 1010 fps on average out of this gun and that's a bit fast for accuracy.
If we compare the same pellets, one in .177 limited to 12 foot pounds of energy and the other in .22 with 32 foot pounds of energy behind it. The .22 would leave the muzzle at 825 fps and the .177 would leave the muzzle at 710 fps. If the .22 version of the pellet were shot out of a sub 12 foot pound gun, it would only leave the muzzle at 505 fps making the trajectory worse than with the .177 at sub 12 foot pounds, so in that case .177 would be far preferable. On the other hand when the .22 pellets are able to leave the muzzle at over 800 fps., I don't think trajectory is going to be an issue.
Any time the same energy is behind a pellet when comparing a .177 to a higher caliber comparable pellet, the .177 will have a flatter trajectory but when the velocity goes above 900 fps or so, you're better off increasing the weight of the pellet rather than worrying about trajectory.
Let me say that I agree with you within the parameters of sub 12 foot pound air rifles but any time a pellet of any caliber can achieve the ideal velocity for accuracy, then more weight with the larger cross section of a higher caliber would be a benefit. The larger cross section causes the pellet to expel more if it's energy on target and the added weight allows the pellet to retain more energy at greater distances.
I like the way you used those plaster cores to make your point, that sure was eye opening as to the difference between different types of pellets.
What rifle do you use.
BlackDynamite901 A Hatsan 125.
Please post a video on that kind of accuracy, i'm skeptical
The chosen 1 Understood,
I've never shot a shooting video before but I guess I'll have to try as soon as I get more JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets. Those are the only pellets I've found that achieve that kind of accuracy with my gun. What would you want me to do to prove the distance I'm shooting from is actually 50 yards? I don't know if my camera can zoom in enough to show the shot placement if the camera is focused on the target from my shooting position. I can always place the camera near the target which would show the shot placement but it would be difficult to give the viewers a true since of the distance.
I'll do my best though but I probably will not get to it for a while since it's been windy, cold, or rainy around here lately. I know the cold doesn't affect accuracy but it affects the shooter, at least in my case. I hate cold weather.
I never realized that that accuracy was so exceptional since I am used to shooting my Anschutz rim-fire rifle. When comparing to that, this kind of accuracy seems rather ordinary. I will say that I never expected to get this kind of accuracy out of a sub $300 air rifle though.
Just shoot a few and walk to the target with the camera,if you can get that kind of accuracy I better start saving my pennies
For all those plugs you made, did you make sure the terracotta wax was the same temperature or bring in account any temp variations? Warmer wax will allow for a greater hole than colder wax, which is harder. A hot or a cold day will make a great difference. Even morning or afternoon... Consistency is key.
For the love of God… with all his attention to mass and point design, you are questioning his temperature controls?!? I am so embarrassed for your need to comment on such a ridiculously minor detail… Do us a favor and wait until you have something worth sharing before you make a comment. Temperature is so far down the hunting scale of variables that it isn’t worth a millisecond of thought. Sorry, but seriously, dude!!
Have you tried Gano PBA Raptor .177 cal, 5.1 grain in a Co2 pistol?
Your wax creates non-elastic cavities as opposed to flesh, which creates elastic ones known as "transient cavitation". The gaping, fixed cavities gives the impression that airguns are far more damaging to flesh than they really are (by the way, dental stone is faster-setting, more durable, and shows far more detail than Plaster of Paris). You are also confusing relative cavity size with lethality when other factors such as penetration can be of more importance. Consider that I can make a larger-volume cavity in your wax with a casual movement of my booted foot. Is my boot toe cavity to be considered more deadly that either of your pellets?
could you do this test for .177 baracuda hunter extreme? Preferably with a 12 fpe gun (not fac)?
I have also undertaking a lot of testing in various materials, and they all only show, how the pellet reacts in that material, modelling clay is nothing like the skin, flesh, muscle and bone of live quarry, hence you will never find pellet damage in quarry that looks anything like the exaggerated holes produced in clay. This video is not in anyway a scientific study.
Interesting but ifn I am not accurate I need more practice.
Loaned my 32ish year old Sheridan Blue Streak to a pal with a groundhog problem. (then). Five pumps for a woodchuck surprised me...Now I've two, loves the weight/open sights.
RWS 48/52 model from the nineties passed thru 19 empty beer cans(touching side to side)..one wobbled a bit, twentieth fell off wida dent, I thought was nuff for small skull if off a bit.
Fahh, that rifle is heavy for free handing all said. Grains? I chucked the higher priced pellets. RWS pells sooked. They near seemed to get stuck.
Super H seems ok to me.
Either..if pops a few cans from sixty yards my gal giggles and sez get me a squirrel.
Cool vid, thanks bub. Now I wanna form modeling clay squirrels 'n such.
lol, freeze Gopher!
Without knowing the velocities and weights of the pellets and actual results on animal testing, the shapes of the cavity made by the pellets in the clay blocks are meaningless but does offer some speculation. Conclusions should be based on actual animal testing.
long range power is much different - 177 loses lots of energy quickly. 25 caliber is very accurate at range so your pellet choices may be making the difference. New tests at 30 yard would be more interesting. Also there is really nothing like actually shooting game to see the impact differences of different pellets. Tedsholdover is a good example of that.
it is also different when the british are using their fac guns so maximum 15 pounds i belive.. when you shoot .25 at 40-60 pounds they do fly accurately for a long distance.
Around 4:06 you show the exit hole for a caliber but have you ever used ballistic gel behind the wax to capture the pellet and see what it's shape is?
I was most curious about the .20 caliber, i have a benjamin 392 in that, the standard benjamin 14.3 gr. is what i am using, i haven't experimented with any other kind of ammo, it goes completely through tin cans and embeds itself for at least it's own body length or a bit longer into wooden pallets slats though.
So what do people think of that H & N Terminator pellet? Are we saying it is not accurate enough? As the damage looked phenomenal
.357 pellet 115gr where can you get some other then amazon all sold out
I have a .177 Ruger targis hunter max I hunt with it it is a beast
It makes a you have a magnum Springer that shoots at least 22 ft lb rather than 11 or 12 lb I have a Diana 350 Magnum in the Diana 48 they both shoot really hard compared to my Beeman in R9 22
I think they're all good but I have my own preferences, I just use 22 and 25 for long distances, for better hit results considering the fact that they are heavy hitters.
Great research Sir, and believe ME your RESULTS have clearly made my next choice a GAMO 177 air rifle for hunting game up to Hog size! I was leaning toward a 357 Benjamin, but need the long distance accuracy more than the knockdown power of a larger caliber! I choose to ENGAGE my targets from ambush cover anyway!
His results don't really apply here in the US. They're limited to 12 ft pounds over there. Over here the .25 cal beats the .177 without a doubt
Thanks
+Lane vaden We aren't limited. However, you have to apply for license if you want over 12ftlb.
if you are going to hunt hogs with an air rifle, cool. make sure you either buddy hunt and or you have a real weapon with you. theres not a .177 on the planet that can reliably take a big pig in a emergency, that air rifle wont mean squat if you get charged. you really should go with the benjamin 357 bull pup if hogs is whats on your list. sure, you CAN do it with .177 but how well, how reliably? how humanely? how safely? .177 is too light imo even though you see people on youtube do it. sure they killed one, but how do you know they didnt not show you all the failures before they got that one shot drop? a hog shoulder is pretty small and a rear quatering shot is a good way to take them, .177 might do it reliably, a hog skull even a small one is pretty thick and .177 probably isnt reliable at range one that. a .357, .45 or .50 air missle is just a better choice, of course backed up by a real gun and or a buddy.
+metamorphicorder
I agree. I wouldn't go hog hunting with a pellet rifle. Same with other large animals. For persistent humane kills, anything larger than rabbits, squirrels, or ducks (such as fox, raccoon, coyote, etc) requires a true firearm - or one hell of a pellet rifle. The firearm would be cheaper.
it took you years for these tests????Goddamn Brit's you really are something else
lol looks like muslim immigration doesn't take that long there does it?
+Ammo Man RIGHT!!!!! Absolutely Ridiculous
How well would the terminator work in a raccoon skull close range?
So for Short range CqB (Close quarters bunnies) it's a .177 Hollow...
My fingers hate .177 lol.
I’m impressed about you using clay instead of gel. The plaster molding revealed expansion better. Have you considered distance too? I usually shoot 40-50 yards. A 0.177 just won’t retain accuracy.
Agree totslly, .177 the most accurate caliber
A couple of gripes. The moulding wax is not the same thickness for the pellets fired, I know it's only slight. Second you only show 1 plaster cast of each pellet, surely you should have done a lot more to show us the variations obtained by 1 particular pellet.
Some great science, Thank You.
mike girdwood no scientist
What type of ..22 pellet for a Crossman Optimus would be good for hunting muskrats
Not to burst your bubble but here in America we can get great accuracy and large powerful airguns. That is to say that British guns are probably more accurate but Americans don't have to deal with that because we have much more powerful guns that aren't limited to 12 ft-lbs, so we can use whatever pellet is most accurate...
Not bursting anyone's bubble, Matthew. Certainly not mine.
Just means we 'Mericans gotta do this test....with every FPE possible =D
Well, good for you and I can be grateful for what I have as well.
That is great work. Thank you
Great video. Thanks for the information.
Very useful review, thanks a lot! 🙂
I use .223/556
With a 1,000 fps
PCP .22 cal
I've seen all the skirted types drop just short of the target that a round ball type is hitting every shot.
So I know what I'm using for my long range shooting.
$0.02
I use .177 match pellets up to 15 meters for rats and rabbits and they are fantastic
Velocity also plays a large role in penetration.I've got a gun that shoots a BB at almost mach 3 and it will shoot through a dollar coin.I've got the video on my channel."World's Fastest BB Gun"
Good information, thanks
This is really interesting comparison, thanks
@ 3.06 not a fair comparison, a .20 round nose to a .177 wad cutter..? Why not a .20 wad cutter too...?
You are talking about h&n field target trophy right?
In my experience it depends on the velocity and type of pellet....
Terminators are annoyingly loud out of my gamo magnum 177
can any of these pellets kill big game like hogs and deer or do I have to use 45 cal pellets
You need more MV and bigger pellets. / Charlie
I have a .20 cal 1972 Sheridan Blue Streak that shoots a 14.7gr pellet at 650 fps. I certainly wouldn’t want to be shot anywhere with that.
Post full videos
Unless I missed it, this video really didn't answer the question asked in the video title (what caliber makes the biggest hole). That's entirely unrelated to the accuracy of individual pellets.
what do you suggest for a 177 Benjamin Discovery
“Pellets!” 🤷🏻♂️