I recall my one child wanting a Western Maryland Alco Diesel Dummy that was equipped with an electronic horn in the 1995 era, that was priced at $125 at various Train Hobby stores. I think MSRP was $150. To me, having gotten my first Lionel starter set in 1955 as a child myself; and having a small layout myself as an adult since 1982; that $150 MSRP was a tad of a sticker shock for the mid 1990's for a basic dummy engine. Prices back then were obviously not the bargains you might have expected to see.
Man and I thought Lionel today was unfathomably expensive. Counting further inflation of the USD, you're paying nearly 1K for Lionel locos in this catalogue with less features than the modern stuff. Crazy stuff. Regardless, it's definitely a neat blast from the past looking how different Lionel was almost 30 years ago yet also how familiar it still is.
I picked up that Santa fe Mikado couple months ago for 130 bucks. The sound and two tone whistle is awesome. Richard Kuhn really did a great job with lionel during his reign.
I have that B&O pacific at 4:11. It's sweet. Runs like a dream. Luckily I didn't pay the price that was listed in this catalog. I also acquired that Mikado at 4:40. Again, runs great and paid a cheap price for it, considering it still carries a high price.
Dude that was awesome with the 94 catalog , you are the guy that 95% of all us guys are We are doing our best to have fun with toy trains , we all look at asp these guys with massive layouts and massive collections Your keeping it real , I like how you’re doing your layout Keep up the good work friend A Friend in East Tennessee
Thank you very much Dennis. I’m glad that what I’m doing is relatable. I’m just being me, I don’t have the energy at this point in my life to do otherwise. My main reason for being in the hobby and doing the videos is to enjoy myself and maybe help and inspire a couple people along the way. If I ever stray from that, you have my permission to smack me across the face with a dead fish, Monty Python style, 😆
Omg,--- yes, the Red Pump Nursery in Tappan New York state, Rockland County... I used to stop there through the 80's and 90's when I lived on the New Jersey Bergen County/ Rockland County border. They had a small shop-- but one was never sure what they might have in stock ,unless one browsed the complete shop and went shelf by shelf, and box by box. They used to have post war items that were in good to mint condition or even NOS that never seemed to have ever been run. The trolleys of today - both by MTH and Lionel are usually priced at $ 79.99 or less ... Interesting indeed!
Red Pump Nursery was owned by an older gentleman when I shopped there in the early 1990s. It was at the end of a long driveway and was a rustic building. I was in my 30s and he was probably my current age back then! Tappan, NY is about 15 miles north of the George Washington bridge (NYC). I bought my PRR 6-18010 Turbine and NYC 6-18005 700E Hudson there. He told me that the name Red Pump Nursery, when it appeared on customer credit card statements, helped train purchases fly under the wife’s radar! He was a nice guy and I last saw him a number of years later in his nephew’s train shop that was nearby in Orangeburg, NY. IIRC, that shop was called Hudson Shores.
I remember 94 very well. There was a down turn in oil. And Engineers in the Engineering and Construction business were laid off. It was hard to get a job. Ad memory. On another note. I really like RS3’s. Believe I have 6. To cool thanks for sharing.
My first layout was in 1955 from a Macy's New York City store of their 1615 0-4-0 switcher and slope back tender that my father bought for Christmas of '55. When I re-started in the hobby in 1982, and up until the present day, my entire layout of rolling stock, accessories, locomotives, buildings, etc., has been strictly " used " items, purchased from train shows, or online from favorite sellers, many of whom I know personally. I can't recall the last time, [ if ever ] , that I purchased a new item that just came out from a new catalog by Lionel, MTH, Atlas, Weaver, Williams, Williams by Bachman etc... I have been tempted to do so on a Menards purchase- but so far I have resisted..
@@dagryffynhobby There is presently a Lionel 1615 0-4-0 Switcher and tender with cars from that set up for sale at eBay with the seller asking $350! (Excellent condition). Yikes! Most Lionel 1615's in good condition (relatively speaking), with its original slope back tender seem to come in at the $ 75-150 price range it seems these days on the various selling sites. Who would have figured!?
"Hamburger" is a scent that JT's hasn't done, at least to my knowledge. They DO make a "Bacon and Eggs" scent! The "Coffee" scent works well in the smoking diner, or at least it did until the smoke unit burned out!
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Hahaha-- Yes, my smoke unit (seuthe ???) burned out by '96 in that Lionel Smoking Diner that I had some 29 years ago! I guess that was a fairly common occurrence back then with their smoke units that they installed in their accessories and in their smoking cabooses and Bunk cars...
@@franktino6676 Yeah, I thought about replacing it with a Seuthe AC smoke unit but decided against it. I may just at some point in the future and install an on-off switch as well but I'm in no rush.
I did an interesting search using an inflation calculator. A set costing $194.95 in 1994 would cost $384.97 in today's money. So Lionel's current prices for their low-end sets are in-line with what they would've cost 28 years ago adjusted for inflation. Cool 🙂
I checked an inflation calculator and the price you would pay today would be about double from 1994. Most of the items in the new catalog are too pricy for me.
Thanks for sharing! This was the first Lionel catalog I had ever laid eyes on at the age 8. It was given to me by my grandma. We couldn’t afford the trains in that catalog but that didn’t stop me from dreaming. I held on to that book for years until it fell apart. From the day of receiving that catalog I knew I was going to have Lionel trains one day. Almost 30 years have gone by, and as an adult I’m playing with Lionel trains. Long story short this catalog sure did its job to that 8 year old boy.
I was looking forward to seeing the Catalog. Talk about "ShOcKeR". I about passed out when I seen those prices. For example that Hot Metal Car is from MTH Tooling with a price of $199.99. You can find the MTH ones brand new on ebay for a Buy It Now Price $44.99. Same Exact Car. That Book you are Sharing is more entertainment than the New One. And Back then Lionel made sure kids from 5 to 95 could afford them.
A shocker indeed. I kept looking for the affordable stuff! Some isn’t bad considering the features and level of detail, I just don’t need anything that nice on my layout.
In the 1990s when I was just getting started with 0 gauge I would buy whole train sets because they were a better value they would include track as a Transformer as well as the locomotive and cars. I have an MTH New York Central set with a gp7 with PS2. I got the whole set for lesson what Lionel is asking for just a locomotive. That's one of the things that was great about m t h. I still have a couple of VHS videotape strolling the virtues of Mike's train house trains. It's hard to believe that was 30 years ago. I wish I had bought the railking Santa Fe Northern for $300 when they first came out. When Kaline came out with the 027 size big boy for $400 I ordered it in conventional mode. It took three years to get it but when it showed up I had forgotten about ordering it. I looked into sending it back but it would cost me $100 restocking charge so I decided to keep it. Underneath my hi-rail layout I have a small 027 layout and which I use the smaller locomotives and cars with. All the magazine reviewers who tested the locomotive lamented the fact they did not make it also available in two rail for American Flyer guys who would love to have a nice big engine on their layout. The locomotive with scale size but it was not condensed like the Lionel steam turbine. It will fit in with my other under side 027 locomotive. It's funny because my favorite o27 locomotive is the 202 solid Orange fa locomotive that is lettered for Union Pacific I have two or three of those so it would fit with the big boy which was a funny coincidence. There are so many nice big scale locomotives being made nowadays but all the electronics push the price out into unaffordable levels. If the new MTH comes out with the $700 railking big boy you could get four of those for the price of one Lionel Vision Line one. I would rather spend $2,700 on four big steam locomotives then just one engine. My God I buy running motorcycles for less than this.
The hobby sure has changed. Good or bad it has changed. I was a freshman in high school when your catalog came out, and all of my trains (100% postwar) were in boxes, I was chasing girls, worrying about getting my license, and navigating my teenage life. Now my postwar trains are still in boxes, I’m chasing girls (my 5 year old twin daughters), worrying about my boys getting their licenses, and wondering how I’m going to afford a Vision Big Boy without my wife leaving me 😂 A breath of fresh air with this video Dave. Thank you! -RTT
@@dagryffynhobby we could open up a can of worms with this wife talk.. I will say she’s my wife for a million and one reasons. One of them being her not caring about how much I spend on my hobby, as long as the bills are paid, and I take her traveling! PS she’ll be at Amherst 😉
@@realtoytrains I hear you. My wife is also amazing for many reasons and is totally supportive of me spending all this time on my hobby and the channel. I’d say we are a couple of lucky guys.
That's what I like about the older catalogs. They start off with the affordable stuff and finish with the more expensive stuff, not vice versa like they do now. Plus, the layout building tips are a nice touch. I will admit though, the re-issue of the prewar Mickey Mouse handcar is tempting.
The New Yorker Passenger/Freight Set was the set that allowed me to have trains up all year long. Before I would set them up at Christmas time only. I was able to convince the Ms. that this would be a great hobby for our recently diagnosed Autistic son. Great review thanks for bringing back so many memories!!
Let's say "pricey." There IS a saying though, "Lionel made electric trains desireable but Louis Marx made them affordable." All part of the big picture.
good stream! in 94 $100 is worth $200 in 2023. $500 is worth $1001 in 2023. so bang for the buck relies on manufacturing costs overseas, profit margin etc. i have that conrail 5500. good engine with old fasioned open field motor. pulls hard, sounds good. wish i could remember what i paid new.
I wasn't surprised about the price of the Disney electric locomotive. There are two reasons for the price. The first one is due to the licensing fee, and the second reason is that Lionel knew it would be a collector's item.
I bought one of my own at a Greenberg Chantilly show about five years ago, I THINK for around $175. WELL worth it! I use it to pull my Lionel "Spirit of '76" Bicentennial series cars, looks great on the head end of those colorful cars!
@@coverdalemineoscalemodelrr7074 Trust me, no you don't! I bought a 1980 produced steamer, the Atlantic Coast Line "Silver Shadow" that had "Sound of Steam" and what I got when I shot the power to it was a blood-curdling scream! It was more like the "Sound of Agony!" I pulled the "SoS" and installed a Williams electronic whistle, MUCH better! Hey, there's something charming about those air whistles, enjoy it for what it is, that's what I do.
I am fairly certain that virtually everything in the 1994 catalog was MADE IN USA. Thus the high prices, especially the trolley. I received the trolley for Christmas 1956, when it sold for $8.95. It seems like a lot, but considering that it's American made, not Chinese, I think the prices are in line with inflation.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Yeah, when the current owners got hold of them. I absolutely refuse to buy any Chinese made Lionel. I'll stick to vintage Lionel.
@@ronalddevine9587 Full disclosure here, I DO have some Chinese-made Lionel, MTH, and Williams products but those are the historically correct models that I wanted. Now that the need's been satisfied from now on I'm going the post-war, MPC, and Kughn Era route and repainting and re-decaling what I'd like to have. Since I run conventional only I don't need all the "gee-whiz" electronics the new items are stuffed with and don't see the need to pay money for features I'll never use. And take it from me those electronics add significantly to the cost, more than people realize.
As long as it’s a quality well built piece it doesn’t matter much to me where it’s from. That being said, I’ll most likely stick with the older stuff made in the US
@@dagryffynhobby The biggest complaint I have about the current stuff is the price. About 20 years ago they moved everything to China, and went up on prices. Not acceptable.
So far as catalog organization is concerned, even in the 50's the less expensive items were shown in the front, the more expensive in the middle and seperate sale items in the back. The 90's were the Richard Kuhn era. He was himself an avid Lionel and American Flyer collector. He brought back the Lionel and American greats while adding things like the smoking diners and coal porters and auto rack cars. Rail Sounds and TMCC were added during his tenure. He was a good businessman while keeping the child touch to keep kids interested in the trains.
Kuhn was definitely good for the company and the hobby. There is something to be said for opening a catalog and seeing things that are affordable before getting sticker shock on the high end items!
Richard Kughn is featured in the TM Video "Lionel At 100" which is a good one to have. He mentions selling the company in 1995 to reduce his work load but if I read his body language correctly I get the impression he was sorry he did. RIP Dick Kughn.
@@dagryffynhobby Yes it is. As a matter of fact the hobby almost ended faster than it started for me a couple years ago, then I found out how to get CHEAP stuff at train shows!! (Yes to the dollar bin!)
My top three are the Lackawanna and Norfolk passenger cars and the roller display cases. The rest did not do anything for me. The E8 Lackawanna that I picked up in 2019 seemed like a better bargain. I would look into water tower 6-24102. I like the bubbles in the water tube and the flashing light. Lights and action so it is a nice accessory. It was in vol 2, 2004 catalogue.
Interesting video Dave. Somewhere along the line, the heads at Lionel lost track about what this hobby is all about. Grab the kids or newcomers attention with lower priced listings FIRST, THEN make your way into the pricey collector's stuff. It's funny but current Lionel starter sets aren't as far off 1994's prices taking inflation into account and the new catalog lists them as low as about $350 and then up to about $600. It was also interesting to see how relatively expensive (for 1994) some of the L-brand was!!
Personally I think it was a big mistake for Lionel to drop the K-Line trains after they bought that company and ran with it for a time. While I understand the logic of not competing with yourself a budget-priced part of the line-up certainly couldn't have hurt and would have very much helped. Get people interested, then somewhere down the line they may just go to the more high-end articles. But you've got to get them interested first, not scare them off.
The set prices aren’t bad, especially if you get everything you need to start. But opening a catalog and getting hit right away with a $2700 engine is nuts!
@@dagryffynhobby The only thing I don't like about the current Lionel starter sets is the LionChief-only control system with no conventional operation option. If the remote goes bad or the reciever in the engine goes bad you're sunk. The only way out is returning the engine and remote to Lionel for repair or wiring the motor directly to the pick-ups and ground and running it with a DC transformer. Aside from that the prices on starter sets are pretty reasonable.
We can largely thank the competition to Lionel for lower prices today on both post war and early modern o gauge trains... thank you Williams, K-line, MTH... and yes, even Atlas... just a little! LOL And, don't forget that the 90s was a time of massive inflation relative to the 80s and early 2000s.
Competition is key! That’s why I’m excited to see what Menards does over the next year or two. Good point about the 90s. My 96 mustang was almost 30k when new. Of course I got it much later for 7k.
@@dagryffynhobbyExactly! The day may be coming when you can't even give a gasoline car away! Menards could be a serious competitor, but they need to get their act together, first.
@@dagryffynhobby I've got kind of a "wait and see" attitude towards Menards and locomotives, there's nothing wrong that I can see with their rolling stock, it's good value for the money. They DO seem to be flailing a bit with their F3 diesels though, from what I've seen so far the product's in an "Almost, but not quite there!" stage. Time will tell.
Wow....quite a price range. I purchased the Navy set in '95. I couldn't read the catalog price...but I paid around $225. Great switcher...pulls well. That old Lionel engine sound.... can't beat it ! Thanks Dave
The prices we can thank, George H Bush and Bill Clinton, and the owner of Lionel Trains Richard Kughn who sold it the next year... I seem to think around that time I bought a MPC steam Pennsylvania passenger train set at Keystone train meet for around $100.00 It was used but very nice and a like new K-line box car for $20.00. The new stuff was out of price range for me. I recently bought O'Brian's Collecting Toy Trains book that was published in 2006 and to me most of the price values are way to high in there as well. But this book has information with on Kusan, AMT, Ives, MarX, American Flyer, Buddy'L and Lionel prewar and post war time periods. I mostly bought it for the information about Kusan, but found the information about all of them very interesting, but prices is off to me...
Items to look for at the Lionel tables at the next train show, Dave! Prices back then were obviously not the bargains you might have expected to see. An interesting step back to get a handle on how to choose a super ebay deal.
@@dagryffynhobby Some good MTH steam engines to look out for are the various models produced from 1996 to 2000 with the electronic whistle only. Simple, rugged and reliable.
Hi Dave! Wow sticker shock! I loved that catalog but don’t remember prices so out there. I guess everything is relative to each person. Some really great stuff to hunt for today. The chase is on!
Thanks. Yeah, some of the prices seemed really high and others didn’t. I guess it all depends on what our expectations are. Definitely some items I want to keep an eye out for.
A VERY interesting trip back through time Dave, and as someone who was getting back into toy trains in the 1990s I can tell you yes, those prices were expensive at the time, especially for me, which was one of the reasons I got into N Scale, N was a LOT more reasonable. I wanted to do O Scale but couldn't really afford the same and also didn't have the space. My childhood Lionels only came out once a year for under the Christmas tree. First a bit of history. The Red Pump Nursery in Tappan was owned by the Seebach family who also sold Lionels as a sideline. Long story short Al Seebach eventually went all the way with toy trains and opened the Old & Weary Car Shop which I know you're familiar with. (I wasn't in the area anymore, I got the information from the Old & Weary website, now gone, which told the story.) When you come down to it now we're in the "Golden Age" of affordable conventional control Lionels as the demand for the used models has dropped. For example that B&O Pacific, the "President Washington" which retailed for $489 (OUCH!) in 1994 can be had now for around $200 used, more or less. I've got one myself and it's a great puller! If you see one grab it, you won't be sorry! Honestly I'm afraid to see the NEW Lionel catalog for 2023! I don't know if the heart and blood pressure can take the shock! Thanks for posting, a fun video as always!
@@dagryffynhobby That he did! And Al was a true old-school gentleman as well. I always made it a point to visit the Old & Weary on our visits back north, just a fun place!
I almost got sick to my stomach when I saw that EP-5 with the Disney theme. No wonder Lionel went belly up. No lionel catalog can compare to the 1950's.
The only way a well-established powerhouse of a company goes belly-up is if someone takes it over who doesn't understand the business. Look at the powerhouses that have gone under in the past decades, all bought by holding companies that didn't understand what they were all about, didn't understand the market and didn't understand the consumer base. It's not the only reason of course but it's the main one in my opinion.
Wow that's awesome. I bought a postwar loco and the tender was a little newer than the loco and transformer is prewar I think.and the cars from the 60's.
I'm trapped in the 90s tech because of my budget but no way would I have paid that much for locomotives. N-scale was my train fix during the 90s. Psycho kids!😂🤣
@@joeystrains.9316 I did N Scale for a time myself, it was fun and quite frankly amazing to me how they could get something that small to run so well. But N doesn't have the foundation-shaking majesty of O Gauge!
A lot of over-priced reruns with arbitrary road names. For those prices I was buying HO brass imports in the nineties. Not the best year for Lionel . . .
I recall my one child wanting a Western Maryland Alco Diesel Dummy that was equipped with an electronic horn in the 1995 era, that was priced at $125 at various Train Hobby stores. I think MSRP was $150. To me, having gotten my first Lionel starter set in 1955 as a child myself; and having a small layout myself as an adult since 1982; that $150 MSRP was a tad of a sticker shock for the mid 1990's for a basic dummy engine. Prices back then were obviously not the bargains you might have expected to see.
$125 is about what I like to pay for a powered engine these days. $125 for a dummy back then? Sticker shock for sure.
Man and I thought Lionel today was unfathomably expensive. Counting further inflation of the USD, you're paying nearly 1K for Lionel locos in this catalogue with less features than the modern stuff. Crazy stuff.
Regardless, it's definitely a neat blast from the past looking how different Lionel was almost 30 years ago yet also how familiar it still is.
I guess hobbies are always expensive.
@@dagryffynhobby They really are aren't they?
This video was a ton of fun. Brilliant idea Dave!
Thanks Chris!👍
I picked up that Santa fe Mikado couple months ago for 130 bucks. The sound and two tone whistle is awesome. Richard Kuhn really did a great job with lionel during his reign.
Very nice. Cool engine.
I have that B&O pacific at 4:11. It's sweet. Runs like a dream. Luckily I didn't pay the price that was listed in this catalog.
I also acquired that Mikado at 4:40. Again, runs great and paid a cheap price for it, considering it still carries a high price.
Me too and me neither! I got mine at a show for $175. They're around and a great one to have!
Very nice!
page 6 of it at 1:30, was my first train ever. Got it for christmas when i was 10. Still have it and still runs like a champ.
That’s great!
Dude that was awesome with the 94 catalog , you are the guy that 95% of all us guys are
We are doing our best to have fun with toy trains , we all look at asp these guys with massive layouts and massive collections
Your keeping it real , I like how you’re doing your layout
Keep up the good work friend
A Friend in East Tennessee
Thank you very much Dennis. I’m glad that what I’m doing is relatable. I’m just being me, I don’t have the energy at this point in my life to do otherwise. My main reason for being in the hobby and doing the videos is to enjoy myself and maybe help and inspire a couple people along the way. If I ever stray from that, you have my permission to smack me across the face with a dead fish, Monty Python style, 😆
@ 16:15. I worked on the real NYC 8223.
Really? Do you have any stories to tell? If so, can you pass them on?
Cool!
Omg,--- yes, the Red Pump Nursery in Tappan New York state, Rockland County...
I used to stop there through the 80's and 90's when I lived on the New Jersey Bergen County/ Rockland County border.
They had a small shop-- but one was never sure what they might have in stock ,unless one browsed the complete shop and went shelf by shelf, and box by box. They used to have post war items that were in good to mint condition or even NOS that never seemed to have ever been run.
The trolleys of today - both by MTH and Lionel are usually priced at $ 79.99 or less ...
Interesting indeed!
I’m sorry I missed that store. I was fortunate enough to visit the Old And Weary a bunch of times before it closed.
@@dagryffynhobby Hi Dave! I never stopped in at the Old & Weary store! I would have loved to at least make one stop there! -Frank
That was fun!! The prices surprised me too…
👍
Red Pump Nursery was owned by an older gentleman when I shopped there in the early 1990s. It was at the end of a long driveway and was a rustic building. I was in my 30s and he was probably my current age back then! Tappan, NY is about 15 miles north of the George Washington bridge (NYC). I bought my PRR 6-18010 Turbine and NYC 6-18005 700E Hudson there. He told me that the name Red Pump Nursery, when it appeared on customer credit card statements, helped train purchases fly under the wife’s radar! He was a nice guy and I last saw him a number of years later in his nephew’s train shop that was nearby in Orangeburg, NY. IIRC, that shop was called Hudson Shores.
If I recall correctly, Al Seebach worked/owned that. I frequented his Old and Weary car shop in Tappan before he passed. Great guy.
I did buy several items from this catalog , the trains were made in Mt Clemens Mi, then
They sure were. Good stuff.
Great video! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Wow, great video that is the year I was born
Glad you enjoyed it
I remember 94 very well. There was a down turn in oil. And Engineers in the Engineering and Construction business were laid off. It was hard to get a job. Ad memory. On another note. I really like RS3’s. Believe I have 6. To cool thanks for sharing.
I was broke and in college so now money for trains.
6 RS3s? Nice!
@@dagryffynhobby The post script is I went to work for “City Service” (aka CITGO). After awhile I started doing better.
My first layout was in 1955 from a Macy's New York City store of their 1615 0-4-0 switcher and slope back tender that my father bought for Christmas of '55.
When I re-started in the hobby in 1982, and up until the present day, my entire layout of rolling stock, accessories, locomotives, buildings, etc., has been strictly " used " items, purchased from train shows, or online from favorite sellers, many of whom I know personally.
I can't recall the last time, [ if ever ] , that I purchased a new item that just came out from a new catalog by Lionel, MTH, Atlas, Weaver, Williams, Williams by Bachman etc...
I have been tempted to do so on a Menards purchase- but so far I have resisted..
Love the 1615, a classic piece. Buying used is the way to go, let the value depreciate a little before making it yours 😊
@@dagryffynhobby There is presently a Lionel 1615 0-4-0 Switcher and tender with cars from that set up for sale at eBay with the seller asking $350! (Excellent condition). Yikes! Most Lionel 1615's in good condition (relatively speaking), with its original slope back tender seem to come in at the $ 75-150 price range it seems these days on the various selling sites. Who would have figured!?
Dave, can you get hamburger scent JT's Mega Steam?
"Hamburger" is a scent that JT's hasn't done, at least to my knowledge. They DO make a "Bacon and Eggs" scent! The "Coffee" scent works well in the smoking diner, or at least it did until the smoke unit burned out!
I don’t know, but that would be neat. As Wayne said, there is a coffee scent, I run it in some of my engines. Coffee and trains = happy Dave
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Hahaha-- Yes, my smoke unit (seuthe ???) burned out by '96 in that Lionel Smoking Diner that I had some 29 years ago! I guess that was a fairly common occurrence back then with their smoke units that they installed in their accessories and in their smoking cabooses and Bunk cars...
@@franktino6676 Yeah, I thought about replacing it with a Seuthe AC smoke unit but decided against it. I may just at some point in the future and install an on-off switch as well but I'm in no rush.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Yeah, that would be the best fix- a Seuthe AC smoke unit with an on/off switch !
Red Pump Nursery was a great store. Later on it turned into Old and Weary Car Shop. Went there many times as a kid. Some great memories.
Loved the old and weary. Was so sorry to see it close after Al passed.
I did an interesting search using an inflation calculator. A set costing $194.95 in 1994 would cost $384.97 in today's money. So Lionel's current prices for their low-end sets are in-line with what they would've cost 28 years ago adjusted for inflation. Cool 🙂
Interesting. It’s never been a cheap hobby.
I bought that Conrail SD60M brand new at auction for $220 in 2015. I sold it on Ebay last year and it only brought $85. 😭
Ouch!
I'm going to flip through that catalog again soon after seeing your video !
Do it. It’s always fun looking back at these older catalogs
Do you have the 1996 catalog?
I do not, only a couple from 1994. Then much newer ones.
I checked an inflation calculator and the price you would pay today would be about double from 1994. Most of the items in the new catalog are too pricy for me.
Definitely too pricy. Some nice stuff, but too pricy
The Pennsylvania double door boxcar is standard o. Very nice car!
Going to keep an eye out for that one 👍
Great video. Looks more friendly to smaller layouts than modern catalogs.
I agree. How many big boys can one layout hold?
Thanks for sharing! This was the first Lionel catalog I had ever laid eyes on at the age 8. It was given to me by my grandma. We couldn’t afford the trains in that catalog but that didn’t stop me from dreaming. I held on to that book for years until it fell apart. From the day of receiving that catalog I knew I was going to have Lionel trains one day. Almost 30 years have gone by, and as an adult I’m playing with Lionel trains. Long story short this catalog sure did its job to that 8 year old boy.
That’s a great memory. A lifelong hobby.
The old catalog is kool🚂👍
It really is
I was looking forward to seeing the Catalog. Talk about "ShOcKeR". I about passed out when I seen those prices. For example that Hot Metal Car is from MTH Tooling with a price of $199.99. You can find the MTH ones brand new on ebay for a Buy It Now Price $44.99. Same Exact Car. That Book you are Sharing is more entertainment than the New One. And Back then Lionel made sure kids from 5 to 95 could afford them.
A shocker indeed. I kept looking for the affordable stuff! Some isn’t bad considering the features and level of detail, I just don’t need anything that nice on my layout.
In the 1990s when I was just getting started with 0 gauge I would buy whole train sets because they were a better value they would include track as a Transformer as well as the locomotive and cars. I have an MTH New York Central set with a gp7 with PS2. I got the whole set for lesson what Lionel is asking for just a locomotive. That's one of the things that was great about m t h. I still have a couple of VHS videotape strolling the virtues of Mike's train house trains. It's hard to believe that was 30 years ago. I wish I had bought the railking Santa Fe Northern for $300 when they first came out. When Kaline came out with the 027 size big boy for $400 I ordered it in conventional mode. It took three years to get it but when it showed up I had forgotten about ordering it. I looked into sending it back but it would cost me $100 restocking charge so I decided to keep it. Underneath my hi-rail layout I have a small 027 layout and which I use the smaller locomotives and cars with. All the magazine reviewers who tested the locomotive lamented the fact they did not make it also available in two rail for American Flyer guys who would love to have a nice big engine on their layout. The locomotive with scale size but it was not condensed like the Lionel steam turbine. It will fit in with my other under side 027 locomotive. It's funny because my favorite o27 locomotive is the 202 solid Orange fa locomotive that is lettered for Union Pacific I have two or three of those so it would fit with the big boy which was a funny coincidence. There are so many nice big scale locomotives being made nowadays but all the electronics push the price out into unaffordable levels. If the new MTH comes out with the $700 railking big boy you could get four of those for the price of one Lionel Vision Line one. I would rather spend $2,700 on four big steam locomotives then just one engine. My God I buy running motorcycles for less than this.
Agree! I still personally wouldn’t spend 700 on an engine but it certainly would be more fun to get four instead of one!
The hobby sure has changed. Good or bad it has changed. I was a freshman in high school when your catalog came out, and all of my trains (100% postwar) were in boxes, I was chasing girls, worrying about getting my license, and navigating my teenage life.
Now my postwar trains are still in boxes, I’m chasing girls (my 5 year old twin daughters), worrying about my boys getting their licenses, and wondering how I’m going to afford a Vision Big Boy without my wife leaving me 😂
A breath of fresh air with this video Dave. Thank you!
-RTT
I can only imaging what my wife would say if I spent $2500 on an engine. I’m sure it would not be pleasant! Lol. Best of luck to you with it!
@@dagryffynhobby we could open up a can of worms with this wife talk..
I will say she’s my wife for a million and one reasons. One of them being her not caring about how much I spend on my hobby, as long as the bills are paid, and I take her traveling!
PS she’ll be at Amherst 😉
@@realtoytrains I hear you. My wife is also amazing for many reasons and is totally supportive of me spending all this time on my hobby and the channel. I’d say we are a couple of lucky guys.
@@dagryffynhobby yes sir we are!
That's what I like about the older catalogs. They start off with the affordable stuff and finish with the more expensive stuff, not vice versa like they do now. Plus, the layout building tips are a nice touch.
I will admit though, the re-issue of the prewar Mickey Mouse handcar is tempting.
The Mickey Car is definitely tempting. Such a classic and important piece of Lionel history.
That was fun! Don’t look at the new one. Unless you plan to open a second mortgage.
Or get a pacemaker! 🤣
There are some “affordable” items in the new one. Something’s I like. But nothing I need.
The New Yorker Passenger/Freight Set was the set that allowed me to have trains up all year long. Before I would set them up at Christmas time only. I was able to convince the Ms. that this would be a great hobby for our recently diagnosed Autistic son. Great review thanks for bringing back so many memories!!
That’s a nice set. Memories and family are such an important part of the hobby!
Lionel has always been expensive ..... always!
Let's say "pricey." There IS a saying though, "Lionel made electric trains desireable but Louis Marx made them affordable." All part of the big picture.
They sure have. Even back to the prime time of the 50s, some of those engines were certainly not cheap!
You should do more catalogue reviews.
I filmed another for another catalog from 94. I’ll have to keep an eye out for old catalogs at the train shows.
good stream! in 94 $100 is worth $200 in 2023. $500 is worth $1001 in 2023. so bang for the buck relies on manufacturing costs overseas, profit margin etc. i have that conrail 5500. good engine with old fasioned open field motor. pulls hard, sounds good. wish i could remember what i paid new.
Nice. There are some really great performing pieces out there!
@@dagryffynhobby don't forget the stuff in your 1994 catalog with made in America by Americans who did not get paid $2 an hour
I wasn't surprised about the price of the Disney electric locomotive. There are two reasons for the price. The first one is due to the licensing fee, and the second reason is that Lionel knew it would be a collector's item.
That makes sense. Still a neat engine.
If those little diesel switchers were in the new Lionel catalog they’d be $899.99 😂
Haha. I’ll buy two!
I just bought that B&O George Washington in excellent condition at the greenburgh train show for $150 awesome catalog reviews
I bought one of my own at a Greenberg Chantilly show about five years ago, I THINK for around $175. WELL worth it!
I use it to pull my Lionel "Spirit of '76" Bicentennial series cars, looks great on the head end of those colorful cars!
Great! The prices for many of the pieces from that era are very affordable.
I wish it had the sound of steam it has a air whistle instead
@@coverdalemineoscalemodelrr7074 Trust me, no you don't! I bought a 1980 produced steamer, the Atlantic Coast Line "Silver Shadow" that had "Sound of Steam" and what I got when I shot the power to it was a blood-curdling scream! It was more like the "Sound of Agony!" I pulled the "SoS" and installed a Williams electronic whistle, MUCH better!
Hey, there's something charming about those air whistles, enjoy it for what it is, that's what I do.
I am fairly certain that virtually everything in the 1994 catalog was MADE IN USA. Thus the high prices, especially the trolley. I received the trolley for Christmas 1956, when it sold for $8.95. It seems like a lot, but considering that it's American made, not Chinese, I think the prices are in line with inflation.
Yes, EVERYTHING in that catalog was American made, Lionel didn't go to China until the early 2000s.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706
Yeah, when the current owners got hold of them. I absolutely refuse to buy any Chinese made Lionel. I'll stick to vintage Lionel.
@@ronalddevine9587 Full disclosure here, I DO have some Chinese-made Lionel, MTH, and Williams products but those are the historically correct models that I wanted. Now that the need's been satisfied from now on I'm going the post-war, MPC, and Kughn Era route and repainting and re-decaling what I'd like to have. Since I run conventional only I don't need all the "gee-whiz" electronics the new items are stuffed with and don't see the need to pay money for features I'll never use. And take it from me those electronics add significantly to the cost, more than people realize.
As long as it’s a quality well built piece it doesn’t matter much to me where it’s from. That being said, I’ll most likely stick with the older stuff made in the US
@@dagryffynhobby
The biggest complaint I have about the current stuff is the price. About 20 years ago they moved everything to China, and went up on prices. Not acceptable.
So far as catalog organization is concerned, even in the 50's the less expensive items were shown in the front, the more expensive in the middle and seperate sale items in the back. The 90's were the Richard Kuhn era. He was himself an avid Lionel and American Flyer collector. He brought back the Lionel and American greats while adding things like the smoking diners and coal porters and auto rack cars. Rail Sounds and TMCC were added during his tenure. He was a good businessman while keeping the child touch to keep kids interested in the trains.
Kuhn was definitely good for the company and the hobby.
There is something to be said for opening a catalog and seeing things that are affordable before getting sticker shock on the high end items!
@@dagryffynhobby yep!
Richard Kughn is featured in the TM Video "Lionel At 100" which is a good one to have. He mentions selling the company in 1995 to reduce his work load but if I read his body language correctly I get the impression he was sorry he did. RIP Dick Kughn.
That was fun. They were pretty expensive for 1994.
Thanks David. It was expensive enough to keep me from getting back into it
@@dagryffynhobby Yes it is. As a matter of fact the hobby almost ended faster than it started for me a couple years ago, then I found out how to get CHEAP stuff at train shows!! (Yes to the dollar bin!)
My top three are the Lackawanna and Norfolk passenger cars and the roller display cases. The rest did not do anything for me. The E8 Lackawanna that I picked up in 2019 seemed like a better bargain. I would look into water tower 6-24102. I like the bubbles in the water tube and the flashing light. Lights and action so it is a nice accessory. It was in vol 2, 2004 catalogue.
Good choices 👍
I’ll need to add some accessories like that to my layout eventually
Interesting video Dave. Somewhere along the line, the heads at Lionel lost track about what this hobby is all about. Grab the kids or newcomers attention with lower priced listings FIRST, THEN make your way into the pricey collector's stuff. It's funny but current Lionel starter sets aren't as far off 1994's prices taking inflation into account and the new catalog lists them as low as about $350 and then up to about $600. It was also interesting to see how relatively expensive (for 1994) some of the L-brand was!!
Personally I think it was a big mistake for Lionel to drop the K-Line trains after they bought that company and ran with it for a time. While I understand the logic of not competing with yourself a budget-priced part of the line-up certainly couldn't have hurt and would have very much helped. Get people interested, then somewhere down the line they may just go to the more high-end articles. But you've got to get them interested first, not scare them off.
The set prices aren’t bad, especially if you get everything you need to start.
But opening a catalog and getting hit right away with a $2700 engine is nuts!
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 I imagine if they had a traditional scale K-Line based catalog, I’d be a lot more interested and maybe even buying something.
@@dagryffynhobby The only thing I don't like about the current Lionel starter sets is the LionChief-only control system with no conventional operation option. If the remote goes bad or the reciever in the engine goes bad you're sunk. The only way out is returning the engine and remote to Lionel for repair or wiring the motor directly to the pick-ups and ground and running it with a DC transformer. Aside from that the prices on starter sets are pretty reasonable.
@@dagryffynhobby Yes, same here!
We can largely thank the competition to Lionel for lower prices today on both post war and early modern o gauge trains... thank you Williams, K-line, MTH... and yes, even Atlas... just a little! LOL And, don't forget that the 90s was a time of massive inflation relative to the 80s and early 2000s.
Lol
Competition is key! That’s why I’m excited to see what Menards does over the next year or two.
Good point about the 90s. My 96 mustang was almost 30k when new. Of course I got it much later for 7k.
@@dagryffynhobbyExactly! The day may be coming when you can't even give a gasoline car away! Menards could be a serious competitor, but they need to get their act together, first.
@@dagryffynhobby I've got kind of a "wait and see" attitude towards Menards and locomotives, there's nothing wrong that I can see with their rolling stock, it's good value for the money. They DO seem to be flailing a bit with their F3 diesels though, from what I've seen so far the product's in an "Almost, but not quite there!" stage. Time will tell.
Wow....quite a price range. I purchased the Navy set in '95. I couldn't read the catalog price...but I paid around $225. Great switcher...pulls well. That old Lionel engine sound.... can't beat it !
Thanks Dave
The prices we can thank, George H Bush and Bill Clinton, and the owner of Lionel Trains Richard Kughn who sold it the next year... I seem to think around that time I bought a MPC steam Pennsylvania passenger train set at Keystone train meet for around $100.00 It was used but very nice and a like new K-line box car for $20.00. The new stuff was out of price range for me. I recently bought O'Brian's Collecting Toy Trains book that was published in 2006 and to me most of the price values are way to high in there as well. But this book has information with on Kusan, AMT, Ives, MarX, American Flyer, Buddy'L and Lionel prewar and post war time periods. I mostly bought it for the information about Kusan, but found the information about all of them very interesting, but prices is off to me...
Those sound like good purchases to me
@@dagryffynhobby I still don't like spending more then $100.00 for a used train set. I'm stuck in the 1990's My cars are from 1991 and 1997.
@@rennethjarrett4580 I can completely respect that!
Awesome Dave.! BIG 👍
Thanks Mark!
“;-)” Awsum. !!!!!!!!!!! 🚂👍
Thanks!
Items to look for at the Lionel tables at the next train show, Dave! Prices back then were obviously not the bargains you might have expected to see. An interesting step back to get a handle on how to choose a super ebay deal.
Definitely some items to keep an eye out for!
Great video as always, love the commentary. When I click on the linkL was thinking 2023 catalog review. LOL
Thanks! Yeah that’s kinda what I intended, but I tried to soften it a bit so people wouldn’t get mad at me 😂
Hey Dave. Thank you for sharing. I am with you, those prices seem really outrageous. Now it reminds me why I moved to MTH. 🙂
MTH was good for Lionel too, although "Big L" didn't see it that way. Competition's good, it makes you try harder.
I guess luxury and hobby items are always expensive! I still haven’t really embraced MTH, maybe that should be a goal for this year.
@@dagryffynhobby Some good MTH steam engines to look out for are the various models produced from 1996 to 2000 with the electronic whistle only. Simple, rugged and reliable.
About the time I started collecting Lionel, never paid these prices bought the much cheaper postwar stuff 🤷🏻♂️
Postwar was and is always a good place to start!
That NYC freight and passenger set was $430 back then would cost about $860 today. Crazy. We truly look at the past with rose colored glasses.
We definitely do look back with rose colored glasses, especially in a hobby like this one where nostalgia can play such an important role for many.
Hi Dave! Wow sticker shock! I loved that catalog but don’t remember prices so out there. I guess everything is relative to each person. Some really great stuff to hunt for today. The chase is on!
Thanks. Yeah, some of the prices seemed really high and others didn’t. I guess it all depends on what our expectations are. Definitely some items I want to keep an eye out for.
Great trip down memory lane. The NYC service station set is pretty cool; I picked mine up sealed at a train show in Michigan for $200 back in 2015.
Very nice!! I have to go see if I have more old catalogs and then look for some more goodies.
A VERY interesting trip back through time Dave, and as someone who was getting back into toy trains in the 1990s I can tell you yes, those prices were expensive at the time, especially for me, which was one of the reasons I got into N Scale, N was a LOT more reasonable. I wanted to do O Scale but couldn't really afford the same and also didn't have the space. My childhood Lionels only came out once a year for under the Christmas tree.
First a bit of history. The Red Pump Nursery in Tappan was owned by the Seebach family who also sold Lionels as a sideline. Long story short Al Seebach eventually went all the way with toy trains and opened the Old & Weary Car Shop which I know you're familiar with. (I wasn't in the area anymore, I got the information from the Old & Weary website, now gone, which told the story.)
When you come down to it now we're in the "Golden Age" of affordable conventional control Lionels as the demand for the used models has dropped. For example that B&O Pacific, the "President Washington" which retailed for $489 (OUCH!) in 1994 can be had now for around $200 used, more or less. I've got one myself and it's a great puller! If you see one grab it, you won't be sorry!
Honestly I'm afraid to see the NEW Lionel catalog for 2023! I don't know if the heart and blood pressure can take the shock!
Thanks for posting, a fun video as always!
Same for me on the N scale in the late 90s.
I really loved Al’s Old and Weary. I miss that place. He always had some great stuff.
@@dagryffynhobby That he did! And Al was a true old-school gentleman as well. I always made it a point to visit the Old & Weary on our visits back north, just a fun place!
That Lionel catalog is 28 years old
29 isn’t it? Either way, I had a good time looking through it!
I almost got sick to my stomach when I saw that EP-5 with the Disney theme. No wonder Lionel went belly up. No lionel catalog can compare to the 1950's.
Not a fan of the themed trains? I don’t mind them although I don’t collect them either. I’m a Disney fan so I don’t mind it.
@@dagryffynhobby I don’t mind themed rolling stock but I like the engines more prototypical.
The only way a well-established powerhouse of a company goes belly-up is if someone takes it over who doesn't understand the business. Look at the powerhouses that have gone under in the past decades, all bought by holding companies that didn't understand what they were all about, didn't understand the market and didn't understand the consumer base.
It's not the only reason of course but it's the main one in my opinion.
Good video Dave. Wasn’t a big fan of the 2023 catalog today but this brighten my day a bit. MTH is still #1 in prices.
I went on line and looked at the 2023 catalog.
And that's all I'm gonna say!
Thanks. I saw some stuff in the 2023 that interested me but probably nothing that I will end up ordering.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 exactly
Wow that's awesome. I bought a postwar loco and the tender was a little newer than the loco and transformer is prewar I think.and the cars from the 60's.
That sounds good to me! I love the old stuff 👍
I'm trapped in the 90s tech because of my budget but no way would I have paid that much for locomotives. N-scale was my train fix during the 90s. Psycho kids!😂🤣
Same boat! I was into N scale for a long time due to cost and space. Before I built the current layout, I considered building a big N scale layout.
@@dagryffynhobby n scale is the most relaxing scale and practical but o scale is robust and easy on the eyes.
@@joeystrains.9316 I did N Scale for a time myself, it was fun and quite frankly amazing to me how they could get something that small to run so well. But N doesn't have the foundation-shaking majesty of O Gauge!
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 agreed!
A lot of over-priced reruns with arbitrary road names. For those prices I was buying HO brass imports in the nineties. Not the best year for Lionel . . .
Not the best, no, but some interesting variety.
Hey Dave, Lauren's Lionel just got that yellow Navy set for Xmas. Here is the link to her video. ua-cam.com/video/zWxvIL-9aQ0/v-deo.html
I’m surprised UA-cam let you post a link in the comments, but I’m glad it did. Just checked out the video. Thanks for sharing.