Yeah, at the time it wasn’t as obvious that CR was one of the main targets, and people were surprised why CR was not making a comment about OGL. Well, they were lawyering up for the war. That makes this entire license thing even more laughable, self made people are not easy to take advantage of or fool.
Kinda like the opening line to a famous poem by Du Fu: The country is broken, though hills and rivers remain. Even if the Hasbro/WotC corporation dies, the hobby will live on and flourish in its ruins.
@@nowayjosedaniel agreed, yet we would be lacking a good team of passionate game developers making the books we love. The money guys are the problems, but the idea guys are the ones to suffer for the money guy's sins
@@nowayjosedaniel not really. Unemployment is no joke, and no system will have the same brand power as WotC's D&D, it's the oldest and most iconic for a reason. The game designers won't just have a new workspace just because there are others brands, if that was the case unemployment wouldn't be through the roof across the world like it is right now
I would note, nearly all of H.P. Lovecraft's works regarding the Cthulhu mythos are public domain, so they can do anything Cthulhu based they want for the most part.
Critical Role knows how to entertain, they are very skilled bards. Whatever system they use they’ll be able to make it look fun. Can they make a system that allows other people to have fun at their table is the question. The bar is set quite low by 5e.
Pathfinder 2e, 1e, and many other games are just way better then D&D D&D 5E is pretty shit truth be told when you consider mid-late game and what knock.
Even anything "fantasy only" can be fairly easily homebrewed. Ofc, that can be deliberately written into the rules to make it as seamless as possible... If they publish adventure mods along with an SRD, they'll likely be fantasy based, but even modules can be homebrewed into other settings. That's what'll make this extra interesting to me. Seeing what homebrew and 3rd party stuff spins off even further from CRs content. It'll depend on how amenable THEIR IP is to 3rd party creators creating, ofc. Something to watch.
@Terry Ray Technically, neither system has a de facto setting. They only said "fantasy" for Daggerheart so people would know "this is our version of D&D." The most accurate description of "Illuminated Worlds" and "Daggerheart" is "Short-Form Storytelling System" and "Long-Form Storytelling System." Or in Layman's Terms "One-Shot System" and "Campaign System." With the sheer amount of one-shots they've done and the attempt at a mini-campaign with 5E (EXU), I think Mercer and everyone at Critical Role realized that D&D isn't really built for "Short-Form Storytelling," so they decided to make a system specifically designed for that.
Thank you for catching the downsides for Critical Role as well. It’s important to remember that D&D has a larger cultural recognition than CR. Still an uphill battle to break away from corporate control.
The irony of the D&D movie is that it was actually good. Sure, I could have nit picked it but I had fun. Better than I thought it would be and the best D&D product made so far this year.
Was it good if the general audience barely showed interest? From what I’ve been reading these past two months some folks in the D&D community have been going out of their way to say it was great when most likely is that expectations were so low that the movie itself wasn’t bad, it just wasn’t great either, and the average moviegoers had a big say in that (besides the poor scheduling by the studio).
@@couchmusings9147 It suffered from two things: Horrible advertisement (barely any) and coming out in the same period as a Marvel movie, Avatar 2 and so on. But the movie itself is actually pretty good, a classic adventure movie for the whole family. Shame it's a franchise owned by such a shitty corporation.
@@snorpenbass4196 that’s actually inaccurate. The movie was released between the second week of of John Wick: Chapter 4 and the first week of the Super Mario Bros. movie (that’s the poor scheduling I was referring too). But when it comes to advertising it was heavily advertised. It even had a Super Bowl ad. As I’ve said, the movie was enjoyable, but it was far from great, since it gave little reason for repeat viewing, as we can attest by the poor box office. That’s mainly related to the quality of the film: the script was unpolished and not all of the humor landed, while the world building was poor. If you don’t give a reason to non players to care, no word of mouth gets out, and no repeat watching takes place. I get we love the franchise and wish it to do well, and it’s valid if it’s a great movie to you, but it won’t change the fact the movie was average and not memorable for the general audience.
@@couchmusings9147 I think the poor box office had a lot more to do with the "general" audience not having interest in anything D&D. Talk to a TTRPG fan and you will get mixed reactions to D&D. Talk to a non-player and they usually can't give 2 shits. It's not going to matter one way or the other if it's good, because they are intertester in anything D&D.
@@slave138 agreed, but the average movie goer has no interest in Tolkien either and look how it turned out. Granted, I’m not saying they can replicate what essentially was lighting in a bottle but the LotR 2000s trilogy proves that even when the franchise might be obscure to a general audience it can perform well if the movie is good enough.
Arguable. Competition drives down prices, and that means funding for development of content may suffer. Its just really sad that these corporations and venture capitalists are so interested in exploiting our niche. While clunky as heck, Gygax putting together OD&D in his living room feels more like a product I would back because it was made with love and care of the hobby.
And developers like Paizo with Pathfinder are somewhat crippled by the reality that they are, in large part, mostly DnD 3-3.5, which have never caught on like 5e... Even though they and ADnD are my favorite editions.
It's also important to remember that Candela Obscura is just one game they're releasing in the Illuminated Worlds setting. Think Savage Worlds, FATE, or Cortex, each of which have likely dozens of games using the system. This could be BIG.
Depends generic systems can have the issue of a lack of flavor or mechanical depth (if it can do EVERYTHING it doesn't do anything particularly well), I like Cortex but you need a strong understanding of the narrative effect.
@@killcat1971 Powered by the Apocalypse games come to mind. The core is very adaptable to many genres and settings. I get the impression that any lack of flavor or mechanical depth in a generic is likely due to the GM, and perhaps even the Players. Over time, those things can be fleshed out during play by using the core mechanics of the generic system. Use the toolkit provided to create the game you and your players want to play.
@@orokusaki1243 Oh I agree, but the hurdles are a bit higher than games where the thematics are baked in, CoC does this well, or the other issues are that very flexible mechanics can make it hard for some players to work out how to do what they want.
@@killcat1971 They can be. It depends on what is available, sourcebooks as well as participants. I can think of 3 systems off the top of my head that had a theme/setting/genre and then ripped all that out to produce a generic system. There must be something warranting that effort, a demand perhaps. If the underlying system can handle outcomes and interactions, then all that's needed is a setting/genre and some light reskinning. Put a template on it. That's why I believe the anecdote is exaggerated by few GMs who themselves have troubles with generic systems. It became an excuse for many to not even bother because they assume it is too much work. For sure, the more choices a player (and GM) has, the more likely they will flounder around trying to make a rule fit the situation and possibly get an odd outcome that they didn't expect. Is that the generic system's problem, or the participants (inexperience)? It seems that non-generic systems can also be brimming with options. IMO, that is a player/GM issue. Ease into an unfamiliar system, learn the nuances and explore a few options at a time. Even if starting so simple, the group is still playing the game together, which is the ultimate prize. Meet in the tavern and clear the rats out of the cellar. This fits in any system, in any era, and in any world.
I bet they’ll finish out the campaign using d&d but hopefully whatever they do after it is over will use their own system. Very cool stuff. I’m excited to see the mechanics of illuminated worlds in action.
@@jessicascoullar3737 honestly, kinda wondering if that wasn't the original intent of the exandria unlimited stuff - to introduce new games and player casts. It kinda seems like swapping to their own system was already in the works, to get away from all the various smaller scandals wotc has caused, and these big ones just moved up the timeline
I think that is a contingency plan. They had the deadline for WotC so if need be they could do a switch. Two things with that though. First, there was likely a possibility that they could have successfully stopped the events which might mean a possible end to C3 Second, they haven't actually killed all the gods yet. There was an indication that the wild mother was still in existence but may be in hiding or distracted. With that said I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the campaign oriented system is being play tested by the other half of the crew except for maybe Marisha she had her plate full with training for CC. I guess we will have to wait and see.
I heard WotC was going to start publishing "how to" guides. The first is "Tasha's guide to shooting yourself in a critical location." Followed by "The Hypocritical Tyrant's guide to ignoring Dark Sun." And their 3rd release in the series "How to fail to understand metrics through the lens of promise vs. reality. "
I wish Critical Role the best in their quest to free themselves from the shackles of D&D and WoTC, but I'm not all that confident in the short term. Inertia is a HELL of a thing in nerd circles, and it's going to take a LOT of serious concerted effort to make a significant dent in D&D's mindshare. And to be totally honest, I don't think Critical Role has the ability to counter all the cultural inertia that D&D has built up. And I certainly don't think a large enough mass of current D&D players are going to switch over to have an impact regardless of what WOTC does short of going bankrupt. I see a lot of similarities between D&D and 40K. Trying to convince people to leave the GW ecosystem and try other game systems is like pulling teeth no matter how expensive the game gets or whatever myopic product strategy GW pulls to increase revenue. I know this because I've been trying to get GW players to look at other games for years now, and experience has taught me that doing so is a nigh-Sysephean task. I don't see D&D being much different TBH. I hope CR succeeds. I want CR to succeed. I don't think CR will succeed. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I highly doubt I will be.
I think that ironically, their best chance is to have Daggerheart be another "5E with the serial numbers filed off" game, and focused more on the adventures and setting than on the rules. I also think that OneD&D might just burst the bubble that D&D has enjoyed since 5E really took an upswing in popularity. I think that if that happens, a TON of players who were mostly only playing it because it was trendy will make a swift exodus. It's been said quite a lot over the past decade that 5E is almost a different hobby than the rest of TTRPGs, and that might prove to be really true.
I think there's a chance for their own RPG to grab a piece of the pie, albeit a small one... I also think their following will watch this new campaign and see what it's about... I know I quite liked the 4 session thing DM'd by Brian W Foster.. if this is in the same vein, it will be entertaining... irrespective of the gaming system used. so if they do decide to shift all of their campaign and content to other RPG systems, I think CR will do just fine, and that D&D will lose some slices of the pie not so much because of the new CR RPG system, but rather for the reduced media exposure.
I think the edition change is a big opportunity for Critical Role here. Since is 5E winding up, people are going to be changing game anyway, so that gives Critical Role (and other RPG makers) a chance to attract away some of the massive 5E crowd.
I don't watch CR because it's D&D. In fact their non-D&D one-shots and short runs have been some of my favorites. I watch them because they're entertaining and masters of their craft. Being good role players that really get into their characters and create an engaging story is a WAY bigger draw than the system that they're using.
You're underestimating how badly p-ssed off a lot of people are, and it didn't start with the OGL. When you're told 'the hobby is better off without you' because you're a nerd/geek, too old, too beardy, wrong skin colour and so on, you take note. There are plenty of alternative TTRPGs, some with comparable depth of lore, and nothing stops you from keeping a setting if you like it with a different ruleset or even keeping a ruleset and just never buying anything ever again. Warhammer, especially 40k, is different - there is simply no comparably deep miniature wargame *and* people have what they think of as an investment in the miniature collection that requires the game to remain popular to 'hold value'. This is why no one would blink an eye at someone playing DnD with pirated PDFs but Warhammer players self-police printed miniatures, kit-bashes and tokens/proxies.
Worst case scenario, if people don't click with the new games and it hurts CR's bottom line...they were playing Pathfinder before they started streaming, and I'm sure Paizo would love to have them back.
An Executioner's dilemma: the gibbet is really good, public slow, grueling, but there are so many other great slow execution methods: oubliette, impalement, crucifixion, flaying alive, the waist chop, the boats. So many greats, so many choices, what to do, what to do...
It really depends if we are talking about Architect Executioner or the Gardener Executioner. Architect works with the script, but yeah Gardener Executioner might get into trouble during live performance. Executioners block is a horrible feeling. You stop for a moment to wipe out the blood, look at the screaming guy to evaluate how much more he can take and decide what's next. Deciding on the next step, and which direction will deliver maximum shock is an art. Then you hear the first "booo" from the crowd. It was just a moment dude! Performing can be painful, audience is really cruel sometimes. I think I agree to King's Jester idea and I will make breaks during shows when me and subject will rest nd drink water and I decide what's next. In this time Jester will dance and juggle. Half of the coins he collects s mine. Gotta ask the Lord Chamberlin for permission.
I've been gaming since the 70's and I think moving forward Critical Role has our best interests at heart and will carry the torch for our hobby. I'm happy with how things turned out. Keep doing what you are doing Discourse! We love you!
They have our best interests at heart right NOW, because they were started by people who love the community and *MORE IMPORTANTLY* they are STILL RUN by people who love the community. A lot of companies started out as good, wholesome people wanting to provide for the best interests of the people, and over time became twisted monstrosities of what they once were (I.E. Hasbro, the people that own DnD). Don't think for a second that Critical Role can't become a horrible multi-media conglomerate.
Funny enough, I couldn't get into Mercer and crew when they were streaming a live D&D game. Now that they have created their own rpg, I'll have to check the show out.
The D&D movie is killing on streaming. We need to step away from the Box Office being the end all be all of what is considered a success. That, coupled with rave reviews, almost guarantees a sequel.
Fascinating to watch a company (Hasbro/WotC) commit public suicide. Absolutely stunning how so many bad decisions could come out of one company in such a short period of time.
Bah. Nothing really bad. OGL? SDure, they released an unpopular draft- then after the fans said NO- they dropped it. That is exactly how a company should operate.
@@FlatOnHisFace No, but NO FRPG is "the best". D&D is the most popular. I have played nearly every competitor and for FRPG, I prefer D&D. Mind you, Gurps and Call of Cthulhu, and a few others are great in their genre.
finally! im fully prepared to pick up Illuminated Worlds and Daggerheart. like those you've mentioned, I got into DND cus of Critical Role (more specifically EXU Calamity). ive been playing for a little less than a year and other ttrpg systems just keep getting more and more appealing
Despite being over 10 editions deep (they are numbered like GTA games), D&D is a chunky, clunky, unweildy system. Deadlands (though a bit heavy) nailed it perfectly with their first try. Future editions have all steered in the wrong direction and 1st edition is hard to find, but entirely worth it. It has the coolest origin story and draws you into its setting. It may turn some away, if they are not looking for a cowboy Western, or some might not be into steampunk, others might not be looking for another zombie game, but Deadlands is deceptively none of these and all of these. FATE is very easy to digest and playable. (What more could you want?) Character design is part of the experience, and it is super light on math. It's like they prioritized imagination, and that's good. Dungeon World has all the same flavor of D&D but much better pacing, stronger focus on the interesting aspects of fantasy adventure, and some of the best advice I've ever seen for the person conducting the game. The system seems designed to help that person conduct a great game, whereas D&D, bizarrely, seems intent on making things as difficult as possible for DMs. It's also one of the most fun to play because it understands that the players are making up the setting of their shared story as much as the DM. Maybe more? Some editions of Shadowrun were really good (if very crunchy). It promotes its themes well. Shoutout to Dread for their Jenga engine; Cthulhu Dark is a favorite that simplfied the whole RPG experience to its most basic form; and Ten Candles for realizing that atmosphere and tone are sometimes more desirable than rules. There are also many more that I just can't do them all justice. Honestly, I don't even know why we play D&D.
Critical Role is taking a risk but has the benefit of already having diversified into multiple revenue streams. Their show and future shows on Amazon, for example, will not live or die by what game system they play for Campaign 4. Merchandise. Board Games. They also get a huge boost by having a live set for in-person games with set design and costuming versus some other streams that look and sound like a Zoom call. I think the waxing or waning of their business at this point will say more about the tabletop streaming industry as a whole than about Critical Role individually.
I don't know why Hasbro thought honor among thieves was a good thing to release in March when in January they tried to legally steal other people's content. The movie might had been good, but the OGL mess left a sour taste on many people, myself included.
Have to say, glad to see a new occult mystery game. I have a lot of problems with Lovecraft's concept of madness so I don't much go in for the insanity mechanic of CoC.
honestly I absolutely love horror games, so I'm always down for more. Mystery games are perfect for TTRPGs (arguably a better fit than combat). I totally get you regarding madness in Cthulhu properties, I always thought Delta Green handled it better
From what I can gather from the trailer, Candela Obscura might be more like Masque of the Red Death (remember that) than CoC. I hope it turns out that way, as I loved that setting.
My initial intro to TTRPGs involved Shadowrun, Star Wars (West End), Star Wars (D20), and GURPS before I ever touched D&D. I think that variety is part of why, almost 25 years later, I still love playing so much.
I started out mostly watching your videos because I like the way you say "game" and "now", but this is the one that convinced me i should really subscribe. I really appreciate the effort you put into writing, and you've got great style.
The risks to CR involved in moving away from DnD is the reason they are starting this new campaign. It is a test run, both for using a proprietary system they created, and for audience feedback on that move.
I began my role playing back in 1987 and thankfully. It was not with dungeons and dragons. I was amused by the o g l debacle. As I did not have a horse in that race I was just watching the sparks fly. Critical role brought people into Dungeons & Dragons not necessarily the greater RPG community on the whole. Dungeons and dragons is mcdonald's. The most widely known of its kind but far from the best. That being said I hope that matt and crew well with the dnd safety net. cheers.
CR and smaller creators have been finding new paths these last couple years. Not Another DnD Podcast, my personal favorite, is going to take a pathfinder2e adventure soon. Im all for it. I converted my daughters and my first characters to P2E and have been having a blast. It was when one of their executives on a podcast saying “White people can’t leave the hobby fast enough….” So I took me and my honky ass daughters to another path.
A ton of people buy d&d stuff just to buy it whether they need it or not. CR's fanbase tend to be huge fans that will spend money on their products, and is also the younger fanbase that wotc wants to capture with digital platforms. CR's fans will follow CR and bring a huge amount of the money wotc wants with them
Your comment around 12:24 - "This is something that no other has to the same extent." Um, yes and no. There are PLENTY of game out there that allow you to do different genres with the same rules (Savage Worlds, FATE, BRP, Year Zero Engine, Genesys Engine, etc), the only advantage D&D has over them is MARKETING. Because frankly, being built from the ground up to do multiple genres with the same rules makes the other options noted above far better. D&D 5th Edition with 'crap bolted on' to try and force it to do other genres just doesn't work as well. Because those rules were made, from the ground up, to be D&D and Dungeon Crawls.
TBH, my first contact with RPGs was not with D&D. I didn't even know that D&D existed for almost a year after I came into the hobby. 😀 BUT that is down to the fact that I'm German and back in 84 D&D was just starting in the German market with the BECMI edition. I got into RPGs via "Das Schwarze Auge" (Engl. TDE) and as such when I learned about D&D the game did not hold up well against its German counterpart. I remember some of our beef with the D&D system, Characters too powerful too fast, the combat system absolutely boring etc. In the end, we used D&D only as a source of inspiration, a pool of monsters and spells to convert to the "better system". Today I have many various systems on my shelves, many are D&D clones or at least very close, and I actually bought some 5e stuff after a total absence from D&D since the BECMI time. Also, my home system has a really BAD edition currently and thus I look forward to Daggerheart. Besides that, I have become part of the OSR world, playing older editions of my home system. And the current interest in new and indi games might spawn a system that will "click" with me, even if I have to write it myself. 😉
I have been having my group try and branch out and try different systems and found it difficult to get them outside of White Wolf, DnD 5e, PF2e, and Champions. We dumped 5e right before the scandal since the characters/combat were feeling lacking. The issue typically revolves around while other games may add simplicity or a unique take on gaming; they either lack polish; have clunky rules that are simply not thought out in some area of gameplay; have horrible layout of the rules (Note - you wouldn't think this is as large of a game killer but often is); lack depth in character development, combat, magic systems. There seems to be a sweet spot between roleplay and crunch. We have a mature gaming group (most are 50+ yrs old) who have been lifelong gamers most of us have been playing together for the past 30+ years. While as the GM I am the more adventurous and willing to try new systems... it doesn't take long for them, having played many systems , to find the breaking point of the system. So while there are "Tons of variety out there" it's not all at the same quality.
The rise of geek chic was important to 5e's success, but it's hard to overstate how important the fundamentals were: 1. 5e DnDwas a Good (and simple) DnD; and 2. It had an awesome, weighty and cheap starter box.
I don't really agree on either point. 5e is mid complexity in the greater realm of TTRPGs - there are many, many popular ones which are less complex. It's relatively high complexity even when compared to other editions - only 3.X & 4e are crunchier; there are six editions of D&D that are easier. As far as the starter set... it was a bit lightweight. Could have had a simple DM screen, cardstock minis (or even plastic ones; D&D starter boxes have had minis mor÷ than once in the past), and a more complete rulebook. It *really* needed a Player "cheat sheet". On the plus side, LMoP is a good adventure. Compare the 5e starter set to the PF beginner box. Now THAT is how it should be done.
@@asafoetidajones8181 the starter set retailed for half the price of the Pathfinder beginner box. And I am not going to try litigate how you count to nine editions of DnD, but frankly 5e is absolutely simpler than ADnD, ADnD 2nd Ed, and the red box rules too.
@@frnknstn64 mm, you have a fair point with the price. I wasn't aware of that. But you're way off about the rest. OD&D - Holmes - 1e - B/X - BECMI - 2e - 3.X - 4e - 5; that's nine. And in no way is 5e less complex than any of those save 3 & 4. There's not even a question. If you're familiar with those rulesets you can't disagree. There are fewer conditions, considerations, steps and caveats to the basic gameplay loop in every TSR edition. Objectively less complexity. Now, 2e with the full PO series in play is a fair match for 5e core.
@@asafoetidajones8181 Friend, I think you are viewing those editions with rose-tinted glasses. Talk about the basic gameplay loop? Open your red book, DnD Basic Rules, to page B24, and read the "Order of events in one game turn". Shorter rules text or fewer options doesn't mean less complex. Or if you want to talk about complexity in ADnD 2nd Edition, my favourite edition? Tell me about THAC0 compared to a d20 / DC calculation. Number of steps in a turn? Initiative modifiers. I don't mean to go on, but 5e does a masterful job of encapsulating the complexity it has within the individual character options, and outside of the core rules.
I'm 100% convinced Daggerheart is just gonna be a nearly 1:1 5e clone. I don't think it's gonna REALLY affect the dragon game since as you said, people are gonna be saying, "they're playing Daggerheart, it's like D&D BUT." D&D has 50 years of cultural momentum behind it and a couple of nerdy ass voice actors aren't gonna change that methinks.
people are drawn to those nerdy ass voice actors. the game system just happens to be D&D and the people want to do what they see, so buy, learn, play D&D. when they were playing Pathfinder, it apparently helped Paizo enough that they funded and developed a 2nd edition. (and ofc the 3.0/3.5e players who skipped 4e and heard about Pathfinder being like a 3.75e)
I started playing TTRPGs with West End Games Star Wars 6D (mainly as the GM) when that game came out in 1987. I then found Mekton 2 a few years later(I discovered Anime and Manga in 1986). That was a TTRPG that focused on mecha anime(and was a 10D skill based system), but with there tech manual I could make other non mecha settings. In mid 1990s I found Heavy Gear by Dream Pod 9. It was a different type of 6D system. Over all that time I never played D&D. After my main group went to different parts of the world I couldn't find a group that wanted try a different system that was not D20/D&D. So I just gave up and have not roleplay because of that.
I think they missed the chance calling their rpg " Dagger Dagger Dagger". I hope WoTC D&D dies. Im looking forward to Dagger Dagger Dagger.... I mean Daggerheart.
While I used Matt Mercer dm’s tip videos, I never watched a full episode of Critical Roll. Thus, personally I won’t lose too much sleep over this or that so called effect.
I did notice the curious lack of D&D IP in the animated series. Perhaps WotC wouldn't let them use certain things but that feels unlikely, more likely you could speculate it was the first step of them distancing themselves from the game.
Honestly Candella Obscura seems more aimed at Horror Adventure with investigating implied where in Call of Cthulhu ur very lucky if u survive hence Taliesin's game where he killed off half of the group and the other half are now utterly horrified Call of Cthulhu has the thing of u might survive....for now 😈
Honestly, it depends whether this new Daggerheart product is completely new or just another shovelware 5e clone. If it is new, then the wedge of D&D fans that are fans of CR might swerve away to go play that game. Then again, some of those fans may continue to use D&D to play in the world Exandria/Tal'dorei/Wildemount - do consider that CR might be more of a setting/lifestyle brand. If Daggerheart is another 5e clone, then you might see a good number of CR fans gently hopping over to the new system but still keeping up with D&D content with the hopes of using it and adapting it to a Daggerheart game. There may be a third option with the new game being like Pathfinder was in the 3e era - if the game is wildly compatible and transferable but deemed better in enough ways and not just a shovel, there might be a major exodus to the new game.
Isn't Illuminated Worlds just the base game system that has the Candela Obscura specific filter on it in this case? Like GURPS with it's base core rules and then expansive rule sets made for more specific settings..
From what I understand - Illuminated worlds is suited to short campaigns, and not specifically horror ones. Its Taliesin that is suited to horror campaigns. So I don't think that Chaosium are a CR target or that WoTC should be rejoicing about it. Given CR's public support of indie game developers, I think you'll find that these will be the first of many indie games that are published on Darrington Press. What is more interesting is the change in the ads on CR. Having 2 sessions in however long without a sponsor, and the significant reduction WotC & adjacent ads, suggests that CR is moving away from WotC when they're not accepting sponsorships. TBH, it was clear that OGL was looking to reel in cash from CR, and I suspect Pathfinder as well. That Pathfinder has had an uptick in share, which hasn't gone down since the cancellation of the OGL, suggests that WotC is likely to implode once they move to OneD&D. Theres a lot of 5e creators who won't move on under a new creative licence.
Believe it or not, my initial exposure to tabletop RPGs WASN'T with D&D. At the time, I don't even think I knew that was a thing. I was actually brought into it through a Monte Cook Games system (the only one at the time) called Numenera, in which a lot of the world has been lost to time and a great deal of consumable and permanent ancient artifacts litter the world, waiting to be discovered. After that, it was the system of Pokemon Tabletop United. It took took some time before I got into D&D proper, but I only ever expanded from there.
bwahahaahaha can we talk for a second about the table at 13:21? not sure where you got that one, but it is HILARIOUS. Thanks for the news update as always.
I wonder if CR will add other ttrpg campaigns/shows to their channel. They seem to be regrowing their content after they sunset a lot of it post their big boom post season 1 of legend of VM; by adding more shows/campaigns with only a few of the old cast or a completely new cast of players that could free up the main cast for other projects, etc. it would be great to see a Monsterhearts campaign or maybe long campaign that’s a bit of a “spin off” to a system/location they are currently playing in.
There are d20 rulesets compatible with Pathfinder and 3.0/3.5 for nearly any setting you can imagine. Star Wars, Warcraft, Gamma World, Call of Cthulu, Paranoia, and many other major IPs have hardcovers and published resources and supplements. From Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica to Bleach and Naruto, you can find a functioning ruleset compatible with the d20 system. Hasbro just hates that it's so freely open source.
A fair percentage of people who watch CR are not actually RPGers. They make money for CR but not WoTC. D&D is already used the same way Xerox or Hoover are used - to describe a class of something rather than a proprietary branch.
iv got to hand it to you that was the biggest handful of puns handed out. it was also enough to aggravate me to the point i stopped there, typed this out, annoyed further at adding to the pun-ishment, and left the vid unfinished because who doesnt like a good mystery over a handy commercial product placement. hands down the worst thing iv seen since waking. never again, because the induced pun return fire hurt and i never want to deal with that again
Good, Matt Mercer and CR can now just fade out of relevance. Doesnt hurt my feeling. Playing D&D 20 years before them, will be 20 years afterward too. Further, opens to space for the rest of us.
I know who you remind me of: Craig Ferguson. That's a compliment--I think Ferguson is hilarious. You should comment on the news the same way you do this show--you could make a huge audience for yourself. But don't stop doing Dungeon Discourse. 😊
Honestly at this point I'm not really cool with Perkins and co continuing to work for WotC and I'm glad that Mercer is moving on. "Oh it's not the creative team's fault." Yeah, you know what I think about that? I think I've heard that excuse a bunch of times, and while nobody is getting murdered here ( yet ), it's still the same excuse. The thing with the Pinkertons was so disgusting that I honestly don't think I'll ever buy a Hasbro product again.
Your sponsor for this episode saw the Thumb Thumbs in Spy Kids and said, "YES!" They should just go ahead and greenlight a sequel to Honor Among Thieves. Yes, it didn't do amazing in the six weeks it was in theaters, ONLY making $203m worldwide, but people are aware of the movie now. My coworkers, who know NOTHING of D&D have either seen it and enjoyed it, or want to see it. Releasing a second movie, now that people know they don't need to know anything about D&D, would see an even bigger return (as long as it's at least as good as the first).
Been in gaming since 1E. We were lucky because 1) 1E, and 2) there was a massive amount of other games out there. Early Call of Cthulhu, Traveller; Hades, as much as TSR ended up as a massive car wreck, they had more than just (A)D&D going for them.
Imagine that awkward conversation from me. Me "I play Battletech" Other "So it's like D&D?" Me "No it is not like D&D." Other "So it's like Warhammer 40K?" Me "No, it is not like Warhammer 40K" I could give them further nightmares and have Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Stargrunt or Stargrave and they'll question what dimension are they in. Normies will never be aware of the total of geek culture.
This is fascinating! Also, unless I'm mistaken, I hear Northern Ireland! And that is a happy sound indeed! Either way, this is massive news. WoTC just blew it. That happens when suits get too powerful. Awful ideas get rationalized into existence under the mantra of "win-win" or some dreadful corporatespeak nonsense. It would be awesome to see CR move over to Pathfinder. I recently made the jump, and it seemed a lot easier than folks think and better balanced than 5e. Have a wonderful day!
If anything, I believe they would probably just switch to Pathfinder second edition and start making content for that if they're proprietary, content fails and they'll probably just work on remodeling that and making a better version of it in the meantime
I have to hand it to you. Not only did you handily connect all the subjects, but you created a handy guide through each subject. Though on the other hand you did go off on a couple of tangents, but all in all hands down a fine video.
I've never watched Critical Role. When I wanted to demonstrate how the game worked to my friends to get them to form a party and play, I showed them HarmonQuest.
@12:26 Meh Gurps and Savage Worlds are built to encompass multiple settings from the outset. They were doing it before WotC. However WotC has a budget and the reach. I also wish the exposure to other systems becomes more mainstream.
Critical Role ha been big awhile now, big enough to worry about getting dragged into the PR scandals of absolutely any game developer they associate their campaigns with, especially in the current online climate where guilt by association is sometimes worse than being the guilty party a person associates with. When we remember that their new attorneys even had them trademark 'How do you want to do this?' to protect their brand from being associated with others online, we see more evidence of brand defense in place. Call of Cthulu, Dungeons & Dragons, and so on? It is highly unlikely we will see Critical Role play with ANY pre-existing systems in the future (indie designers will likely just be locked out by the price point), just because they need to be in a position where bad behavior from developers does not splash back on them like it ALWAYS does. Hence why their Illuminated Worlds system seems to be a genre neutral situation. Critical Role is going to move away from D&D but it isn't going to lead to greater exposure for any game other than Illuminated Worlds.
I'm predicting that'll be roughly next June/July. They're supposedly demoing the games at GenCon in early Aug, so next year makes sense. And they'd be silly to release the game before they show it off on the show for at least a few weeks.
This is the first thing I thought of when I heard about the OGL bullcrap. No way would anyone running a company want to live under that sword of damaclese. Even though we won, what matters is they tried it at all. Looks like short sighted greed lost D&D one of their biggest benefits. Who could have seen that coming?
D&D is a combat simulator, which isn't always what you want in a very role-play/story heavy game. I expect CR's games to be more mechanics-light games, which will be great for new fans who have never played a ttrpg before. It really helps to have a games design be built around its theme, instead of trying to shoe-horn in a new theme on a pre-established system like D&D.
No matter what system you use, won't stop or change the RPG elements at all and a lot of their stuff will get homebrewed away just like with 5e and Pathfinder. As for Critical Role being the flag ship that is bringing in new folks? Yes, but D&D was what spawned Matt Mercer. We knew about D&D a lot longer than even Internet was a thing. /shrug If anything CR is a curse on us DM's with these 'new' players they bring in who want us all to be voice actors as good as Matt Mercer. So yeah, Thanks for that BS CR. Appreciate it.
@Dungeons & Discourse Loved your previous video where you talked about WizBros going after the whales, the go deep customer exploitation, cuz they can't go wide anymore. Suggestion, maybe send Jeremy a tasteful boudoir pic with the tagline: "There is more where this came from baby! Call me." Maybe his publicist will reach out about a meetup or more likely his attorney will send a cease and desist letter, either way you will probably get a response.
I'm absolutely pumped about this new ttrpg. I've already talked to someone that I've met about DMing a one-shot for myself and other people that we recruit. Counting down the days until they release the quick start guide.
I *very* much like seeing Critical Role *abandon* DnD and make their *own* systems because not only will it inspire *others* to do the same, but it *also* that now that Whiffers of the Coast have driven their biggest advertiser *away* the systems *other* people make, like the one *I'm* writing, will actually get some *attention* when they come out, as Critical Role will be inspiring people to look at *other* systems from now on! As you may've guessed, I *support* the decision!
The problem is that while the move will take the emphasis off of D&D, the crit-iots will only care about whatever system they are pushing and not the wider indie RPG scene. But then again, anything that hurts WotC is an amazing thing in my book.
Yeah, at the time it wasn’t as obvious that CR was one of the main targets, and people were surprised why CR was not making a comment about OGL. Well, they were lawyering up for the war. That makes this entire license thing even more laughable, self made people are not easy to take advantage of or fool.
CC?
Call of Cthulhu
@@xczechr yeah, I meant CR, edited
Especially when the move would have affected them in. HUGE way or pressured them into a creativity starving position.
Well... they got a big help during the start by Felicia Day and Will Wheaton, when they scouted them for their first live let's play of ttrpgs
Meanwhile at Wotc headquarters, "i know lets call the Pinkerton".
"Those fans you're taking are embargoed. We just gave them away by accident, and we want them back..."
@@bc4198 “You could be facing thousands of kidnapping charges and prison sentences of up to one million years…”
If even one person in their leadership has even one brain cell not even half awake, they'll come to realize that'd be a disastrous choice.
Damn it, you beat me to the joke 😁
I rarely laugh as hard as I did at this
D&D has gone bankrupt before. Multiple times. The brand will survive. However, this current batch of corporate overlords needs to go.
Kinda like the opening line to a famous poem by Du Fu:
The country is broken, though hills and rivers remain.
Even if the Hasbro/WotC corporation dies, the hobby will live on and flourish in its ruins.
TSR was a better time for the hobbyists.
@@nowayjosedaniel agreed, yet we would be lacking a good team of passionate game developers making the books we love. The money guys are the problems, but the idea guys are the ones to suffer for the money guy's sins
@@nowayjosedaniel not really. Unemployment is no joke, and no system will have the same brand power as WotC's D&D, it's the oldest and most iconic for a reason. The game designers won't just have a new workspace just because there are others brands, if that was the case unemployment wouldn't be through the roof across the world like it is right now
I would note, nearly all of H.P. Lovecraft's works regarding the Cthulhu mythos are public domain, so they can do anything Cthulhu based they want for the most part.
they cannot, however, use Derleth or other successors' works without proper permissions
Wait, so who have i been paying royalties to for my rampant racism?
@@thanhool 😆😆😆
@@thanhool no, no, those are public domain
That 1shot where Talisen was the Game Keeper for a CoC game was really great, look it up.
Critical Role knows how to entertain, they are very skilled bards. Whatever system they use they’ll be able to make it look fun. Can they make a system that allows other people to have fun at their table is the question. The bar is set quite low by 5e.
I want them to go back to their roots and do Pathfinder 2e. I know they originally did 1e, but 2e i think would be a better move.
Yes, Critical Role was even able to make Pathfinder look fun, before WotC wooed them to 5e.
I hope they pick up Flying Circus for at least a one-off. It's a blast
Pathfinder 2e, 1e, and many other games are just way better then D&D
D&D 5E is pretty shit truth be told when you consider mid-late game and what knock.
You are not kidding
The system for Candela has no setting. They said it could be any setting. Dagger heart is the fantasy only setting
Oh yeah, the campaign for Candela Obscura looks massively reminiscent of Call of Cthulhu! :)
Even anything "fantasy only" can be fairly easily homebrewed. Ofc, that can be deliberately written into the rules to make it as seamless as possible... If they publish adventure mods along with an SRD, they'll likely be fantasy based, but even modules can be homebrewed into other settings. That's what'll make this extra interesting to me. Seeing what homebrew and 3rd party stuff spins off even further from CRs content. It'll depend on how amenable THEIR IP is to 3rd party creators creating, ofc. Something to watch.
I would think, given their start, that they would have reasonable allowances for third party content.
@@carpevinum8645 yep. It'd really help seal their position with the subject, too.
@Terry Ray
Technically, neither system has a de facto setting. They only said "fantasy" for Daggerheart so people would know "this is our version of D&D." The most accurate description of "Illuminated Worlds" and "Daggerheart" is "Short-Form Storytelling System" and "Long-Form Storytelling System." Or in Layman's Terms "One-Shot System" and "Campaign System." With the sheer amount of one-shots they've done and the attempt at a mini-campaign with 5E (EXU), I think Mercer and everyone at Critical Role realized that D&D isn't really built for "Short-Form Storytelling," so they decided to make a system specifically designed for that.
Thank you for catching the downsides for Critical Role as well. It’s important to remember that D&D has a larger cultural recognition than CR. Still an uphill battle to break away from corporate control.
And remember that the D&D cultural recognition has a lot of bad baggage associated with it as well.
Much, much larger
The irony of the D&D movie is that it was actually good. Sure, I could have nit picked it but I had fun. Better than I thought it would be and the best D&D product made so far this year.
Was it good if the general audience barely showed interest? From what I’ve been reading these past two months some folks in the D&D community have been going out of their way to say it was great when most likely is that expectations were so low that the movie itself wasn’t bad, it just wasn’t great either, and the average moviegoers had a big say in that (besides the poor scheduling by the studio).
@@couchmusings9147 It suffered from two things: Horrible advertisement (barely any) and coming out in the same period as a Marvel movie, Avatar 2 and so on. But the movie itself is actually pretty good, a classic adventure movie for the whole family. Shame it's a franchise owned by such a shitty corporation.
@@snorpenbass4196 that’s actually inaccurate. The movie was released between the second week of of John Wick: Chapter 4 and the first week of the Super Mario Bros. movie (that’s the poor scheduling I was referring too). But when it comes to advertising it was heavily advertised. It even had a Super Bowl ad. As I’ve said, the movie was enjoyable, but it was far from great, since it gave little reason for repeat viewing, as we can attest by the poor box office. That’s mainly related to the quality of the film: the script was unpolished and not all of the humor landed, while the world building was poor. If you don’t give a reason to non players to care, no word of mouth gets out, and no repeat watching takes place. I get we love the franchise and wish it to do well, and it’s valid if it’s a great movie to you, but it won’t change the fact the movie was average and not memorable for the general audience.
@@couchmusings9147 I think the poor box office had a lot more to do with the "general" audience not having interest in anything D&D. Talk to a TTRPG fan and you will get mixed reactions to D&D. Talk to a non-player and they usually can't give 2 shits. It's not going to matter one way or the other if it's good, because they are intertester in anything D&D.
@@slave138 agreed, but the average movie goer has no interest in Tolkien either and look how it turned out. Granted, I’m not saying they can replicate what essentially was lighting in a bottle but the LotR 2000s trilogy proves that even when the franchise might be obscure to a general audience it can perform well if the movie is good enough.
This is actually a great thing for D&D, competition breeds better content
And hopefully better Management?!
less commies too, one can only hope
Arguable. Competition drives down prices, and that means funding for development of content may suffer.
Its just really sad that these corporations and venture capitalists are so interested in exploiting our niche.
While clunky as heck, Gygax putting together OD&D in his living room feels more like a product I would back because it was made with love and care of the hobby.
@@legofanguyvid Sorry to break it to you, but it's just capitalism all the way down.
And developers like Paizo with Pathfinder are somewhat crippled by the reality that they are, in large part, mostly DnD 3-3.5, which have never caught on like 5e... Even though they and ADnD are my favorite editions.
It's also important to remember that Candela Obscura is just one game they're releasing in the Illuminated Worlds setting. Think Savage Worlds, FATE, or Cortex, each of which have likely dozens of games using the system. This could be BIG.
Depends generic systems can have the issue of a lack of flavor or mechanical depth (if it can do EVERYTHING it doesn't do anything particularly well), I like Cortex but you need a strong understanding of the narrative effect.
Very true. I gave up on Savage Worlds for that very reason. I guess we'll find out how well they did fairly soon.
@@killcat1971 Powered by the Apocalypse games come to mind. The core is very adaptable to many genres and settings.
I get the impression that any lack of flavor or mechanical depth in a generic is likely due to the GM, and perhaps even the Players. Over time, those things can be fleshed out during play by using the core mechanics of the generic system. Use the toolkit provided to create the game you and your players want to play.
@@orokusaki1243 Oh I agree, but the hurdles are a bit higher than games where the thematics are baked in, CoC does this well, or the other issues are that very flexible mechanics can make it hard for some players to work out how to do what they want.
@@killcat1971 They can be. It depends on what is available, sourcebooks as well as participants.
I can think of 3 systems off the top of my head that had a theme/setting/genre and then ripped all that out to produce a generic system. There must be something warranting that effort, a demand perhaps. If the underlying system can handle outcomes and interactions, then all that's needed is a setting/genre and some light reskinning. Put a template on it.
That's why I believe the anecdote is exaggerated by few GMs who themselves have troubles with generic systems. It became an excuse for many to not even bother because they assume it is too much work.
For sure, the more choices a player (and GM) has, the more likely they will flounder around trying to make a rule fit the situation and possibly get an odd outcome that they didn't expect.
Is that the generic system's problem, or the participants (inexperience)? It seems that non-generic systems can also be brimming with options. IMO, that is a player/GM issue.
Ease into an unfamiliar system, learn the nuances and explore a few options at a time. Even if starting so simple, the group is still playing the game together, which is the ultimate prize.
Meet in the tavern and clear the rats out of the cellar. This fits in any system, in any era, and in any world.
I bet they’ll finish out the campaign using d&d but hopefully whatever they do after it is over will use their own system. Very cool stuff. I’m excited to see the mechanics of illuminated worlds in action.
I don’t know, their potential killing off the gods and changing magic plot line might allow them to change system mid-campaign.
@@jessicascoullar3737 honestly, kinda wondering if that wasn't the original intent of the exandria unlimited stuff - to introduce new games and player casts. It kinda seems like swapping to their own system was already in the works, to get away from all the various smaller scandals wotc has caused, and these big ones just moved up the timeline
I think that is a contingency plan. They had the deadline for WotC so if need be they could do a switch. Two things with that though.
First, there was likely a possibility that they could have successfully stopped the events which might mean a possible end to C3
Second, they haven't actually killed all the gods yet. There was an indication that the wild mother was still in existence but may be in hiding or distracted. With that said I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the campaign oriented system is being play tested by the other half of the crew except for maybe Marisha she had her plate full with training for CC. I guess we will have to wait and see.
I heard WotC was going to start publishing "how to" guides. The first is "Tasha's guide to shooting yourself in a critical location." Followed by "The Hypocritical Tyrant's guide to ignoring Dark Sun." And their 3rd release in the series "How to fail to understand metrics through the lens of promise vs. reality. "
I'm mainly looking forward to "How to send brutal corporate thugs to your consumers for not toeing the company line", it looks very 19th century.
Coming soon, a "Plain Escape" of their customers.
I wish Critical Role the best in their quest to free themselves from the shackles of D&D and WoTC, but I'm not all that confident in the short term. Inertia is a HELL of a thing in nerd circles, and it's going to take a LOT of serious concerted effort to make a significant dent in D&D's mindshare. And to be totally honest, I don't think Critical Role has the ability to counter all the cultural inertia that D&D has built up. And I certainly don't think a large enough mass of current D&D players are going to switch over to have an impact regardless of what WOTC does short of going bankrupt.
I see a lot of similarities between D&D and 40K. Trying to convince people to leave the GW ecosystem and try other game systems is like pulling teeth no matter how expensive the game gets or whatever myopic product strategy GW pulls to increase revenue. I know this because I've been trying to get GW players to look at other games for years now, and experience has taught me that doing so is a nigh-Sysephean task. I don't see D&D being much different TBH.
I hope CR succeeds.
I want CR to succeed.
I don't think CR will succeed.
I hope I'm proven wrong, but I highly doubt I will be.
I think that ironically, their best chance is to have Daggerheart be another "5E with the serial numbers filed off" game, and focused more on the adventures and setting than on the rules.
I also think that OneD&D might just burst the bubble that D&D has enjoyed since 5E really took an upswing in popularity. I think that if that happens, a TON of players who were mostly only playing it because it was trendy will make a swift exodus. It's been said quite a lot over the past decade that 5E is almost a different hobby than the rest of TTRPGs, and that might prove to be really true.
I think there's a chance for their own RPG to grab a piece of the pie, albeit a small one... I also think their following will watch this new campaign and see what it's about... I know I quite liked the 4 session thing DM'd by Brian W Foster.. if this is in the same vein, it will be entertaining... irrespective of the gaming system used. so if they do decide to shift all of their campaign and content to other RPG systems, I think CR will do just fine, and that D&D will lose some slices of the pie not so much because of the new CR RPG system, but rather for the reduced media exposure.
I think the edition change is a big opportunity for Critical Role here. Since is 5E winding up, people are going to be changing game anyway, so that gives Critical Role (and other RPG makers) a chance to attract away some of the massive 5E crowd.
I don't watch CR because it's D&D. In fact their non-D&D one-shots and short runs have been some of my favorites. I watch them because they're entertaining and masters of their craft. Being good role players that really get into their characters and create an engaging story is a WAY bigger draw than the system that they're using.
You're underestimating how badly p-ssed off a lot of people are, and it didn't start with the OGL. When you're told 'the hobby is better off without you' because you're a nerd/geek, too old, too beardy, wrong skin colour and so on, you take note. There are plenty of alternative TTRPGs, some with comparable depth of lore, and nothing stops you from keeping a setting if you like it with a different ruleset or even keeping a ruleset and just never buying anything ever again. Warhammer, especially 40k, is different - there is simply no comparably deep miniature wargame *and* people have what they think of as an investment in the miniature collection that requires the game to remain popular to 'hold value'. This is why no one would blink an eye at someone playing DnD with pirated PDFs but Warhammer players self-police printed miniatures, kit-bashes and tokens/proxies.
Worst case scenario, if people don't click with the new games and it hurts CR's bottom line...they were playing Pathfinder before they started streaming, and I'm sure Paizo would love to have them back.
An Executioner's dilemma: the gibbet is really good, public slow, grueling, but there are so many other great slow execution methods: oubliette, impalement, crucifixion, flaying alive, the waist chop, the boats. So many greats, so many choices, what to do, what to do...
It really depends if we are talking about Architect Executioner or the Gardener Executioner. Architect works with the script, but yeah Gardener Executioner might get into trouble during live performance. Executioners block is a horrible feeling. You stop for a moment to wipe out the blood, look at the screaming guy to evaluate how much more he can take and decide what's next. Deciding on the next step, and which direction will deliver maximum shock is an art. Then you hear the first "booo" from the crowd. It was just a moment dude! Performing can be painful, audience is really cruel sometimes.
I think I agree to King's Jester idea and I will make breaks during shows when me and subject will rest nd drink water and I decide what's next. In this time Jester will dance and juggle. Half of the coins he collects s mine. Gotta ask the Lord Chamberlin for permission.
If in doubt, good old hanging, drawing and quartering goes well.
Not to quibble, but isn't the whole point of the oubliette to make the prisoner disappear? It's..kinda in the name, y'know?
@@Oddmanoutre Hence the dilemma...
@@Oddmanoutre yeah, it kind of lacks the "don't be this guy" example setting 😂
I've been gaming since the 70's and I think moving forward Critical Role has our best interests at heart and will carry the torch for our hobby. I'm happy with how things turned out.
Keep doing what you are doing Discourse! We love you!
They have our best interests at heart right NOW, because they were started by people who love the community and *MORE IMPORTANTLY* they are STILL RUN by people who love the community. A lot of companies started out as good, wholesome people wanting to provide for the best interests of the people, and over time became twisted monstrosities of what they once were (I.E. Hasbro, the people that own DnD). Don't think for a second that Critical Role can't become a horrible multi-media conglomerate.
Whenever I hear D&D I automatically think Basic. Yes I'm that old, yes I still play 1st/2nd Edition Ad&D
Funny enough, I couldn't get into Mercer and crew when they were streaming a live D&D game. Now that they have created their own rpg, I'll have to check the show out.
Never would have expected a reference to the Compton effect/scattering.
The D&D movie is killing on streaming. We need to step away from the Box Office being the end all be all of what is considered a success. That, coupled with rave reviews, almost guarantees a sequel.
Fascinating to watch a company (Hasbro/WotC) commit public suicide. Absolutely stunning how so many bad decisions could come out of one company in such a short period of time.
Bah. Nothing really bad. OGL? SDure, they released an unpopular draft- then after the fans said NO- they dropped it. That is exactly how a company should operate.
Aw, c'mon. They have a long history of bad decisions. Let's be fair.
@@FlatOnHisFace Not really. Look, the #1 always attracts haters.
You are right. But that's not really applicable here. D&D is the granddaddy of RPGs and easily the most popular. But it is far, far from the best.
@@FlatOnHisFace No, but NO FRPG is "the best". D&D is the most popular. I have played nearly every competitor and for FRPG, I prefer D&D. Mind you, Gurps and Call of Cthulhu, and a few others are great in their genre.
You may be jumping the gun slightly, until CR themselves announce it themselves. They have used several other systems in their games already.
That. Plus, probably not a small amount of their viewers actually mostly come for DnD; - as good as some of the smaller systems they also play may be.
seems more like connecting the dots.
the OGL shenanigans seems to have made all content creators for D&D think twice about exclusivity.
@Badbentham Critical Role most popular campaign was using the Pathfinder system. I dont think it matters if they stick to d&d or not.
Good for CR.
finally! im fully prepared to pick up Illuminated Worlds and Daggerheart. like those you've mentioned, I got into DND cus of Critical Role (more specifically EXU Calamity). ive been playing for a little less than a year and other ttrpg systems just keep getting more and more appealing
Despite being over 10 editions deep (they are numbered like GTA games), D&D is a chunky, clunky, unweildy system.
Deadlands (though a bit heavy) nailed it perfectly with their first try. Future editions have all steered in the wrong direction and 1st edition is hard to find, but entirely worth it. It has the coolest origin story and draws you into its setting. It may turn some away, if they are not looking for a cowboy Western, or some might not be into steampunk, others might not be looking for another zombie game, but Deadlands is deceptively none of these and all of these.
FATE is very easy to digest and playable. (What more could you want?) Character design is part of the experience, and it is super light on math. It's like they prioritized imagination, and that's good.
Dungeon World has all the same flavor of D&D but much better pacing, stronger focus on the interesting aspects of fantasy adventure, and some of the best advice I've ever seen for the person conducting the game. The system seems designed to help that person conduct a great game, whereas D&D, bizarrely, seems intent on making things as difficult as possible for DMs. It's also one of the most fun to play because it understands that the players are making up the setting of their shared story as much as the DM. Maybe more?
Some editions of Shadowrun were really good (if very crunchy). It promotes its themes well.
Shoutout to Dread for their Jenga engine; Cthulhu Dark is a favorite that simplfied the whole RPG experience to its most basic form; and Ten Candles for realizing that atmosphere and tone are sometimes more desirable than rules. There are also many more that I just can't do them all justice.
Honestly, I don't even know why we play D&D.
Critical Role is taking a risk but has the benefit of already having diversified into multiple revenue streams. Their show and future shows on Amazon, for example, will not live or die by what game system they play for Campaign 4. Merchandise. Board Games. They also get a huge boost by having a live set for in-person games with set design and costuming versus some other streams that look and sound like a Zoom call. I think the waxing or waning of their business at this point will say more about the tabletop streaming industry as a whole than about Critical Role individually.
I don't know why Hasbro thought honor among thieves was a good thing to release in March when in January they tried to legally steal other people's content. The movie might had been good, but the OGL mess left a sour taste on many people, myself included.
we weren't supposed to know about the OGL thing.... oops
Have to say, glad to see a new occult mystery game. I have a lot of problems with Lovecraft's concept of madness so I don't much go in for the insanity mechanic of CoC.
honestly I absolutely love horror games, so I'm always down for more. Mystery games are perfect for TTRPGs (arguably a better fit than combat). I totally get you regarding madness in Cthulhu properties, I always thought Delta Green handled it better
I love Call of Cthulu but I would love to see more games in the genre. It is hard to make long term stories in DND
@@evandugas7888 - May I recommend taking a look at Free League Games VAESEN. It uses the Year Zero Engine and it's fantastic.
Really It isn't that difficult. But maybe you are talking about 5E and that barely resembles D&D.
Yesterday, I bought the rule book of Liminal. Have a look at it, it’s a pretty cool investigation horror game.
From what I can gather from the trailer, Candela Obscura might be more like Masque of the Red Death (remember that) than CoC. I hope it turns out that way, as I loved that setting.
I love Masque of the Red Death
@@quintinsteevessenior5568 You, Sir, have excellent taste. 👍
Pro Tip: Never trust your brand in the hands of an accountant.
"We could be looking at the end of the DnD renaissance" I can only hope so!
My initial intro to TTRPGs involved Shadowrun, Star Wars (West End), Star Wars (D20), and GURPS before I ever touched D&D. I think that variety is part of why, almost 25 years later, I still love playing so much.
Just say RPGs.
CR has run lots of non-WotC games before this. This isn’t breaking from D&D, it’s launching their own system. There’s room for all of them
There is no room for greedy corporations at the table.
I started out mostly watching your videos because I like the way you say "game" and "now", but this is the one that convinced me i should really subscribe. I really appreciate the effort you put into writing, and you've got great style.
For me it was how she said whale "wheel". Lol. I was confused for most of the video.
"Buh Bye!"
Yeah she does her research and connects the dots that most gloss over or just don't notice. Passionate advocate for the hobby.
“Geehm”.
I'm genuinely curious - what is her accent? I can't place it.
thanks so much Plautus, I really appreciate that :)
The risks to CR involved in moving away from DnD is the reason they are starting this new campaign. It is a test run, both for using a proprietary system they created, and for audience feedback on that move.
I began my role playing back in 1987 and thankfully. It was not with dungeons and dragons. I was amused by the o g l debacle. As I did not have a horse in that race I was just watching the sparks fly. Critical role brought people into Dungeons & Dragons not necessarily the greater RPG community on the whole. Dungeons and dragons is mcdonald's. The most widely known of its kind but far from the best. That being said I hope that matt and crew well with the dnd safety net. cheers.
CR and smaller creators have been finding new paths these last couple years. Not Another DnD Podcast, my personal favorite, is going to take a pathfinder2e adventure soon. Im all for it.
I converted my daughters and my first characters to P2E and have been having a blast. It was when one of their executives on a podcast saying “White people can’t leave the hobby fast enough….” So I took me and my honky ass daughters to another path.
Kyle Brink. If you type his name and “can’t leave fast enough” you’ll find it. It was on the “Two Black Halflings” podcast
A ton of people buy d&d stuff just to buy it whether they need it or not. CR's fanbase tend to be huge fans that will spend money on their products, and is also the younger fanbase that wotc wants to capture with digital platforms. CR's fans will follow CR and bring a huge amount of the money wotc wants with them
GWotC 's response "Quick! Call the Pinkertons! We can strong arm them into staying with us!"
How did Monsters of the Multiverse get away with making minis of the GW painting staff?
Your comment around 12:24 - "This is something that no other has to the same extent." Um, yes and no. There are PLENTY of game out there that allow you to do different genres with the same rules (Savage Worlds, FATE, BRP, Year Zero Engine, Genesys Engine, etc), the only advantage D&D has over them is MARKETING. Because frankly, being built from the ground up to do multiple genres with the same rules makes the other options noted above far better. D&D 5th Edition with 'crap bolted on' to try and force it to do other genres just doesn't work as well. Because those rules were made, from the ground up, to be D&D and Dungeon Crawls.
Your miniatures promotion really slaps...
it got a little out of hand
Monogamy isn't for TTRPG's!
Monogamy is one gamy up for RPG-players😊
@@m.r.3912 Hehheheh
I appreciate hands on advertisement.
TBH, my first contact with RPGs was not with D&D. I didn't even know that D&D existed for almost a year after I came into the hobby. 😀
BUT that is down to the fact that I'm German and back in 84 D&D was just starting in the German market with the BECMI edition. I got into RPGs via "Das Schwarze Auge" (Engl. TDE) and as such when I learned about D&D the game did not hold up well against its German counterpart. I remember some of our beef with the D&D system, Characters too powerful too fast, the combat system absolutely boring etc.
In the end, we used D&D only as a source of inspiration, a pool of monsters and spells to convert to the "better system".
Today I have many various systems on my shelves, many are D&D clones or at least very close, and I actually bought some 5e stuff after a total absence from D&D since the BECMI time. Also, my home system has a really BAD edition currently and thus I look forward to Daggerheart.
Besides that, I have become part of the OSR world, playing older editions of my home system. And the current interest in new and indi games might spawn a system that will "click" with me, even if I have to write it myself. 😉
I have been having my group try and branch out and try different systems and found it difficult to get them outside of White Wolf, DnD 5e, PF2e, and Champions. We dumped 5e right before the scandal since the characters/combat were feeling lacking.
The issue typically revolves around while other games may add simplicity or a unique take on gaming; they either lack polish; have clunky rules that are simply not thought out in some area of gameplay; have horrible layout of the rules (Note - you wouldn't think this is as large of a game killer but often is); lack depth in character development, combat, magic systems.
There seems to be a sweet spot between roleplay and crunch. We have a mature gaming group (most are 50+ yrs old) who have been lifelong gamers most of us have been playing together for the past 30+ years. While as the GM I am the more adventurous and willing to try new systems... it doesn't take long for them, having played many systems , to find the breaking point of the system.
So while there are "Tons of variety out there" it's not all at the same quality.
The rise of geek chic was important to 5e's success, but it's hard to overstate how important the fundamentals were: 1. 5e DnDwas a Good (and simple) DnD; and 2. It had an awesome, weighty and cheap starter box.
I don't really agree on either point. 5e is mid complexity in the greater realm of TTRPGs - there are many, many popular ones which are less complex. It's relatively high complexity even when compared to other editions - only 3.X & 4e are crunchier; there are six editions of D&D that are easier. As far as the starter set... it was a bit lightweight. Could have had a simple DM screen, cardstock minis (or even plastic ones; D&D starter boxes have had minis mor÷ than once in the past), and a more complete rulebook. It *really* needed a Player "cheat sheet". On the plus side, LMoP is a good adventure. Compare the 5e starter set to the PF beginner box. Now THAT is how it should be done.
@@asafoetidajones8181 the starter set retailed for half the price of the Pathfinder beginner box. And I am not going to try litigate how you count to nine editions of DnD, but frankly 5e is absolutely simpler than ADnD, ADnD 2nd Ed, and the red box rules too.
@@frnknstn64 mm, you have a fair point with the price. I wasn't aware of that. But you're way off about the rest. OD&D - Holmes - 1e - B/X - BECMI - 2e - 3.X - 4e - 5; that's nine. And in no way is 5e less complex than any of those save 3 & 4. There's not even a question. If you're familiar with those rulesets you can't disagree. There are fewer conditions, considerations, steps and caveats to the basic gameplay loop in every TSR edition. Objectively less complexity. Now, 2e with the full PO series in play is a fair match for 5e core.
@@asafoetidajones8181 Friend, I think you are viewing those editions with rose-tinted glasses. Talk about the basic gameplay loop? Open your red book, DnD Basic Rules, to page B24, and read the "Order of events in one game turn". Shorter rules text or fewer options doesn't mean less complex. Or if you want to talk about complexity in ADnD 2nd Edition, my favourite edition? Tell me about THAC0 compared to a d20 / DC calculation. Number of steps in a turn? Initiative modifiers. I don't mean to go on, but 5e does a masterful job of encapsulating the complexity it has within the individual character options, and outside of the core rules.
@@asafoetidajones8181 then again, I may be misjudging. I have had good luck teaching 5e to people. Perhaps that is just a coincidence.
I'm 100% convinced Daggerheart is just gonna be a nearly 1:1 5e clone. I don't think it's gonna REALLY affect the dragon game since as you said, people are gonna be saying, "they're playing Daggerheart, it's like D&D BUT." D&D has 50 years of cultural momentum behind it and a couple of nerdy ass voice actors aren't gonna change that methinks.
people are drawn to those nerdy ass voice actors. the game system just happens to be D&D and the people want to do what they see, so buy, learn, play D&D.
when they were playing Pathfinder, it apparently helped Paizo enough that they funded and developed a 2nd edition. (and ofc the 3.0/3.5e players who skipped 4e and heard about Pathfinder being like a 3.75e)
I started playing TTRPGs with West End Games Star Wars 6D (mainly as the GM) when that game came out in 1987. I then found Mekton 2 a few years later(I discovered Anime and Manga in 1986). That was a TTRPG that focused on mecha anime(and was a 10D skill based system), but with there tech manual I could make other non mecha settings. In mid 1990s I found Heavy Gear by Dream Pod 9. It was a different type of 6D system. Over all that time I never played D&D. After my main group went to different parts of the world I couldn't find a group that wanted try a different system that was not D20/D&D. So I just gave up and have not roleplay because of that.
I think they missed the chance calling their rpg " Dagger Dagger Dagger".
I hope WoTC D&D dies. Im looking forward to Dagger Dagger Dagger.... I mean Daggerheart.
And so it begins... The Great Darrington/Pinkerton War
I’m sure the name dagger heart was chosen very intentionally, as describing what it’s intention is…
While I used Matt Mercer dm’s tip videos, I never watched a full episode of Critical Roll. Thus, personally I won’t lose too much sleep over this or that so called effect.
I agree. People will still Watch CR, but casual players who have played DND for years will not shift system.
I did notice the curious lack of D&D IP in the animated series. Perhaps WotC wouldn't let them use certain things but that feels unlikely, more likely you could speculate it was the first step of them distancing themselves from the game.
I suspect WoTC would let them use anything they wanted, as long as they paid. CR were smart to avoid any entanglement.
Honestly Candella Obscura seems more aimed at Horror Adventure with investigating implied where in Call of Cthulhu ur very lucky if u survive hence Taliesin's game where he killed off half of the group and the other half are now utterly horrified Call of Cthulhu has the thing of u might survive....for now 😈
Honestly, it depends whether this new Daggerheart product is completely new or just another shovelware 5e clone. If it is new, then the wedge of D&D fans that are fans of CR might swerve away to go play that game. Then again, some of those fans may continue to use D&D to play in the world Exandria/Tal'dorei/Wildemount - do consider that CR might be more of a setting/lifestyle brand. If Daggerheart is another 5e clone, then you might see a good number of CR fans gently hopping over to the new system but still keeping up with D&D content with the hopes of using it and adapting it to a Daggerheart game. There may be a third option with the new game being like Pathfinder was in the 3e era - if the game is wildly compatible and transferable but deemed better in enough ways and not just a shovel, there might be a major exodus to the new game.
Isn't Illuminated Worlds just the base game system that has the Candela Obscura specific filter on it in this case? Like GURPS with it's base core rules and then expansive rule sets made for more specific settings..
From what I understand - Illuminated worlds is suited to short campaigns, and not specifically horror ones. Its Taliesin that is suited to horror campaigns. So I don't think that Chaosium are a CR target or that WoTC should be rejoicing about it. Given CR's public support of indie game developers, I think you'll find that these will be the first of many indie games that are published on Darrington Press. What is more interesting is the change in the ads on CR. Having 2 sessions in however long without a sponsor, and the significant reduction WotC & adjacent ads, suggests that CR is moving away from WotC when they're not accepting sponsorships. TBH, it was clear that OGL was looking to reel in cash from CR, and I suspect Pathfinder as well. That Pathfinder has had an uptick in share, which hasn't gone down since the cancellation of the OGL, suggests that WotC is likely to implode once they move to OneD&D. Theres a lot of 5e creators who won't move on under a new creative licence.
Massive self-inflicted business decision, great nostalgic call-back to the final days of TSR.
Believe it or not, my initial exposure to tabletop RPGs WASN'T with D&D. At the time, I don't even think I knew that was a thing. I was actually brought into it through a Monte Cook Games system (the only one at the time) called Numenera, in which a lot of the world has been lost to time and a great deal of consumable and permanent ancient artifacts litter the world, waiting to be discovered. After that, it was the system of Pokemon Tabletop United. It took took some time before I got into D&D proper, but I only ever expanded from there.
bwahahaahaha can we talk for a second about the table at 13:21? not sure where you got that one, but it is HILARIOUS. Thanks for the news update as always.
it's like DnD buuuutt...
I wonder if CR will add other ttrpg campaigns/shows to their channel. They seem to be regrowing their content after they sunset a lot of it post their big boom post season 1 of legend of VM; by adding more shows/campaigns with only a few of the old cast or a completely new cast of players that could free up the main cast for other projects, etc. it would be great to see a Monsterhearts campaign or maybe long campaign that’s a bit of a “spin off” to a system/location they are currently playing in.
There are d20 rulesets compatible with Pathfinder and 3.0/3.5 for nearly any setting you can imagine. Star Wars, Warcraft, Gamma World, Call of Cthulu, Paranoia, and many other major IPs have hardcovers and published resources and supplements.
From Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica to Bleach and Naruto, you can find a functioning ruleset compatible with the d20 system.
Hasbro just hates that it's so freely open source.
A fair percentage of people who watch CR are not actually RPGers. They make money for CR but not WoTC. D&D is already used the same way Xerox or Hoover are used - to describe a class of something rather than a proprietary branch.
Lots of people who only watch CR for sure! But it also exposes a ton of new people to the game a lot :)
@@dungeonsanddiscourse Personally for me, I would rather slam my fingers in a door than watch other people roleplay.
I have never watched CR. D&D hasn't been my central TTRPG for a while. I'm just interested in a different wizard's sleeve.
iv got to hand it to you that was the biggest handful of puns handed out. it was also enough to aggravate me to the point i stopped there, typed this out, annoyed further at adding to the pun-ishment, and left the vid unfinished because who doesnt like a good mystery over a handy commercial product placement. hands down the worst thing iv seen since waking. never again, because the induced pun return fire hurt and i never want to deal with that again
Good, Matt Mercer and CR can now just fade out of relevance. Doesnt hurt my feeling. Playing D&D 20 years before them, will be 20 years afterward too.
Further, opens to space for the rest of us.
I know who you remind me of: Craig Ferguson. That's a compliment--I think Ferguson is hilarious. You should comment on the news the same way you do this show--you could make a huge audience for yourself. But don't stop doing Dungeon Discourse. 😊
Hell I'm not even a Critical Role viewer and I'm 100% keen to support Dagger heart rpg
Honestly at this point I'm not really cool with Perkins and co continuing to work for WotC and I'm glad that Mercer is moving on.
"Oh it's not the creative team's fault."
Yeah, you know what I think about that? I think I've heard that excuse a bunch of times, and while nobody is getting murdered here ( yet ), it's still the same excuse. The thing with the Pinkertons was so disgusting that I honestly don't think I'll ever buy a Hasbro product again.
Your sponsor for this episode saw the Thumb Thumbs in Spy Kids and said, "YES!"
They should just go ahead and greenlight a sequel to Honor Among Thieves. Yes, it didn't do amazing in the six weeks it was in theaters, ONLY making $203m worldwide, but people are aware of the movie now. My coworkers, who know NOTHING of D&D have either seen it and enjoyed it, or want to see it. Releasing a second movie, now that people know they don't need to know anything about D&D, would see an even bigger return (as long as it's at least as good as the first).
I'd really dig a sequel, I hope it does well in streaming :)
Been in gaming since 1E. We were lucky because 1) 1E, and 2) there was a massive amount of other games out there. Early Call of Cthulhu, Traveller; Hades, as much as TSR ended up as a massive car wreck, they had more than just (A)D&D going for them.
Ah, loosing critical roll, mom Aftermath price is tanking with stores selling it at a lost. Going to be a painfull year for hasbrow
Imagine that awkward conversation from me.
Me "I play Battletech"
Other "So it's like D&D?"
Me "No it is not like D&D."
Other "So it's like Warhammer 40K?"
Me "No, it is not like Warhammer 40K"
I could give them further nightmares and have Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Stargrunt or Stargrave and they'll question what dimension are they in.
Normies will never be aware of the total of geek culture.
What's Stargrunt?
It's the only one I haven't heard of.
This is fascinating! Also, unless I'm mistaken, I hear Northern Ireland! And that is a happy sound indeed! Either way, this is massive news. WoTC just blew it. That happens when suits get too powerful. Awful ideas get rationalized into existence under the mantra of "win-win" or some dreadful corporatespeak nonsense. It would be awesome to see CR move over to Pathfinder. I recently made the jump, and it seemed a lot easier than folks think and better balanced than 5e. Have a wonderful day!
Our group plays 5 different systems and Call of Cthulhu is our primary game.
Goddamn, that surprise From Another Time Another Land reference almost caused me to spit-take.
4 to 6 hours of character creation - maybe 30 minutes of play before they're all dead
It rather saddens me to find that no one is recalling when d&d was the flag ship table top game to Star Frontiers, Bothell, and Top Secrete. Sad.
If anything, I believe they would probably just switch to Pathfinder second edition and start making content for that if they're proprietary, content fails and they'll probably just work on remodeling that and making a better version of it in the meantime
I have to hand it to you. Not only did you handily connect all the subjects, but you created a handy guide through each subject. Though on the other hand you did go off on a couple of tangents, but all in all hands down a fine video.
I wish I could put my own hand up for this comment, not just my thumb.
I've never watched Critical Role. When I wanted to demonstrate how the game worked to my friends to get them to form a party and play, I showed them HarmonQuest.
Why dont people give Community the props needed is beyond me
Community was streets ahead with their D&D episodes.
@12:26 Meh Gurps and Savage Worlds are built to encompass multiple settings from the outset. They were doing it before WotC. However WotC has a budget and the reach.
I also wish the exposure to other systems becomes more mainstream.
Critical Role ha been big awhile now, big enough to worry about getting dragged into the PR scandals of absolutely any game developer they associate their campaigns with, especially in the current online climate where guilt by association is sometimes worse than being the guilty party a person associates with. When we remember that their new attorneys even had them trademark 'How do you want to do this?' to protect their brand from being associated with others online, we see more evidence of brand defense in place.
Call of Cthulu, Dungeons & Dragons, and so on? It is highly unlikely we will see Critical Role play with ANY pre-existing systems in the future (indie designers will likely just be locked out by the price point), just because they need to be in a position where bad behavior from developers does not splash back on them like it ALWAYS does. Hence why their Illuminated Worlds system seems to be a genre neutral situation. Critical Role is going to move away from D&D but it isn't going to lead to greater exposure for any game other than Illuminated Worlds.
4:50 I was lied to by the title ! Dayum! Clickbaiting is.... fair I guess
9:00 ah there you go
Wait, wasn’t this news a few weeks back? Or did I just assume the switch systems, when they announced their own system?!
My understanding is that Illuminated Worlds will be a core system like GURPS, Genesys, Cortex, etc. They are just doing creepy for it's initial stream
Candela is only airing once a month aside campaign 3. Only when/if they do a campaign 4 in daggerheart will shit really hit the fan.
I'm predicting that'll be roughly next June/July. They're supposedly demoing the games at GenCon in early Aug, so next year makes sense. And they'd be silly to release the game before they show it off on the show for at least a few weeks.
This is the first thing I thought of when I heard about the OGL bullcrap. No way would anyone running a company want to live under that sword of damaclese. Even though we won, what matters is they tried it at all.
Looks like short sighted greed lost D&D one of their biggest benefits. Who could have seen that coming?
D&D is a combat simulator, which isn't always what you want in a very role-play/story heavy game. I expect CR's games to be more mechanics-light games, which will be great for new fans who have never played a ttrpg before. It really helps to have a games design be built around its theme, instead of trying to shoe-horn in a new theme on a pre-established system like D&D.
No matter what system you use, won't stop or change the RPG elements at all and a lot of their stuff will get homebrewed away just like with 5e and Pathfinder.
As for Critical Role being the flag ship that is bringing in new folks? Yes, but D&D was what spawned Matt Mercer. We knew about D&D a lot longer than even Internet was a thing. /shrug
If anything CR is a curse on us DM's with these 'new' players they bring in who want us all to be voice actors as good as Matt Mercer. So yeah, Thanks for that BS CR. Appreciate it.
@Dungeons & Discourse Loved your previous video where you talked about WizBros going after the whales, the go deep customer exploitation, cuz they can't go wide anymore. Suggestion, maybe send Jeremy a tasteful boudoir pic with the tagline: "There is more where this came from baby! Call me." Maybe his publicist will reach out about a meetup or more likely his attorney will send a cease and desist letter, either way you will probably get a response.
I'm absolutely pumped about this new ttrpg. I've already talked to someone that I've met about DMing a one-shot for myself and other people that we recruit. Counting down the days until they release the quick start guide.
WOTC rolls a 1 attacking Critical Role.....oooops
I've heard of sausage and mash, but I've never tried it. Have you?
Your new TTRPG, o Discourse, ought to have an Edgelord class.
... no goddamnit don't you ever cite that Bang Theory show ever ever ever.
I *very* much like seeing Critical Role *abandon* DnD and make their *own* systems because not only will it inspire *others* to do the same, but it *also* that now that Whiffers of the Coast have driven their biggest advertiser *away* the systems *other* people make, like the one *I'm* writing, will actually get some *attention* when they come out, as Critical Role will be inspiring people to look at *other* systems from now on! As you may've guessed, I *support* the decision!
The problem is that while the move will take the emphasis off of D&D, the crit-iots will only care about whatever system they are pushing and not the wider indie RPG scene. But then again, anything that hurts WotC is an amazing thing in my book.
>in the shadow of the wizard king
I saw what you did there!
This style of communication is grating. Turn it down 40% please.
Yup, had to give up. Life ain't worth enduring 16mins of this just to actually get some info.
Loved the "fake it till You make it" bit