Hey, Jay's Wife, listen. You're great. I love the sass, it sparks joy. But I do keep coming back for the empathy and the analysis, soooooooo today Jay wins.
I tried to do this once. One of the major villains of my last campaign was obsessed with perfection so she was always polite and brutally efficient in combat. I got the players genuinely terrified of her but the campaign fizzled out due to scheduling conflicts before they got to break her facade.
Honestly "The table must like your character even if their characters do not" is oddly pretty consistently good advice to give. Like, in a lot of scenarios of party friction I mean.
I can definitely see a character like Sukuna from jujutsu Kaisen to fit this trope. He’s charismatically selfish, always one step ahead, and devastatingly powerful. He even cares about the Mc in his own twisted way, and fights to measure others strengths against his own
Will say I do feel like Sukuna becomes a worse example of this further into the manga. The scenes where he shows his respect becomes less and less meaningful overall, that underlining sense of charisma and his own twisted sense of honor becomes less impactful. In the final battle, it feels like they are trying to simultaneously treat it like Sukuna and Yuji’s connection matches the foil that was Mahito while also barely putting in the work to sell it in a way that outmatches Mahito. The “I’m you” pulled in each battle have staggering differences in how much impact they impart upon the reader mainly since JJK fails to really sit down and delve into the parts of Sukuna’s character besides his strength save for brief glimpses like when he invaded Jogo’s afterlife (IMO the peak of Sukuna’s characterization) For that reason, I’d say the best examples of this trope from JJK are Mahito and Geto
As a PC, I think an important part is to NEVER lose the arrogance. Make it clear out of character what you're doing though. If things go according to your plan? Perfect. If you get thumped and have to be saved by a party member? Well, you were smart to trust them. If everything goes to absolute crap? Not your fault!
@@benpurcell4935 I don't agree. More often than not, aloofness is a symptom of arrogance. If you are sufficiently arrogant, you necessarily see yourself as better than, and therefore separate from, those around you. And so you become detached. Aloof.
@@farkasmactavish There’s a difference between being completely aloof and slightly aloof is like there’s just that hint of arrogance that comes out every so often. Someone can be aloof but isn’t completely detached from reality. There are plenty of characters that come off as aloof but are well aware of their surroundings. Aloof is just a state of being distant but that doesn’t mean a character has to be constantly that way. You could think of it like mood swings. That’s just my take at least.
I had a villain once that was the bbeg who originally disguised himself as a normal old dude who would only ever interact with one of the players who he thinks would be the most susceptible when they were alone and away from the party. He spent the whole time just talking to that player about the their experiences while also discussing their views of them trying to warp their thoughts without using any spells or skill checks. Willing to both criticize and support some of their views, even ones he didn’t agree with. Over the course of the campaign, if he trusted or thought he could, he would attempt slowly get them to understand who he was and understand his views to get him on their side, using his time as their confidant against them. Eventually trying subtlety get the player to be loyal to him over the party with a genuine want to have them on his side. And should they divert as planned he uses everything he knows about them over the course of the campaign to deconstruct them completely.
Yes, Palpatine played properly, through the animated series. An optimum telepath with a super- doctorate in psychology. Look up" foundations and empire", similar idea. Sounds awesome!
A good example of this trope, I think, is Donquixote Doflamingo. He did have all the plans, all the power, and all the knowledge. He had the charisma and intelligence to not only take over, but lead an entire country. The only reason things started to go wrong was because of the Strawhats and their sudden and unexpected actions. He knew they wanted to destroy the SMILE factory, but as soon as they went off script and started to save the people of Dressrosa, making alliances with other groups and generally being themselves, it threw Doflamingo for a complete loop.
To be fair Takahada(I don't know his irl name) voice of Perfect Cell and Alucard Abridge has that smooth voice. So it's not just, the character has to act the part but so does their voice actor. I think in a party of heroes it can work, you just gotta make sure the other players are aware and give them those moments and pray the dice is on your side. It's not a easy thing to do. But when it comes together it is awesome 😎.
The other players being aware is the most important part. If you're going to do a concept that normally grates in a regular part, make sure it's above board out of characters. As far as Takahata goes, it's easy to find his real name, but out of respect to his wishes, I recommend not looking it up.
He also plays Borky the Orc in the Unexpectables DND group (it's on UA-cam, just search "Unexpectables DND") who is Charismatic and Dumb, because Orcs are dumb trope. He even does the impossible, gets taught how to read later on in the campaign.
Another good example of this is Senator Armstrong from MGR. 20 minutes of screentime, yet the main attraction and some of the most memorable characters ever
I’ve played a magnificent bastard successfully before, as a sergeant in the army of an irregulars unit (pcs + 8npcs). And I played him as a coward, not in the fearful way, but in the Ciaphas Cain way of ‘the better my troops are the more people are between me and the enemy’, and ‘if the line breaks we’re all gonna die, so I’ll plug the gap’. He consistently gets through battles near spotless but still contributing, setting up party members to have their moments ‘Hawke, we need to kill that wizard!’, yet out of battle will throw his weight around to ensue his group has all the best camp spots, extra rations, etc
The difficulty is why I prefer his little brother : The megalomaniac Henchman. Because you can wave any shortcomming of intelligence or charisma by typical boss-henchman relationship or just pure fanatism.
Great video! I think it’s important to note that charisma comes in many different forms, and if you’re not quick on the draw with snazzy one liners as a player, that being a strong silent type is it’s own form of charisma as well.
I just realized that my last character fits the criteria you present, but he is not an antagonist towards the party. He is simply a rogue who liked to cause mischief, was good at stealing and spying, irritated the characters and people he met, but when the wizard who was the leader of the party, the rogue took control. Suddenly it turned out that without the highest charisma or intelligence in the party, he can keep everyone in line and still effectively talk to the higher-ups. He pulls the bard out of depression after the wizard broke her heart by leaving. He controlled the antics of the barbarian, who always did something unimaginably stupid. He missed the moment when the group of traitors manipulated the ranger, but was able to react quickly and give orders to everyone in the party to stop the tragedy. Or maybe it's a different archetype?
Love this concept tbh, I wanna play something like it in the future Btw everyone wish Jay a happy birthday bc it's today! Happy birthday Jay! I'm forever grateful to have you as a player at my table, and I'm so glad your channel is something you love and have found success in. Also Engagement
Props for the TFS DBZA Perfect Cell example. TFS HUA Alucard also fits this trope (we love you Curtis). But I feel the epitome of this trope is Gilgamesh from Fate. There are so many reasons to hate him as a character, but he's such a magnificent bastard in charisma, intelligence, and power that it's hard to hate scenes he's in. But it's definitely a hard balance, especially for PCs. I know, because I tried playing Gilgamesh in a one shot for the lols but it didn't work in that setting between 1) bad rolls that night, 2) so little time to get to know the character and 3) no session 0 conversation. Also even in a campaign setting where your table is fine with it, this is a harder trope for PCs at an optimizer table; if everyone is bringing power gamer builds with few-to-no weaknesses to the table, it's hard to stand out as a specialist or as having a presence unless you are the face of the party. A lot of the presence you get from magnificent bastard characters is your contrast to the rest of the cast, so if every character is comparably capable (many optimizers make high dpr ranged weapon/control spell builds), you can easily lose the aspect of magnificent bastard that is standing out as a capable combatant. Just some things to keep in mind for people who want to play these characters.
@dravendarkplays9607 really? Would you care to elaborate why? I don't generally see people who dislike Jack cause he's highly regarded as far as villains go so I'd love to hear your thoughts on him
I actually have kind of a fun idea for my PC in my current campaign, and this was exactly what I needed to be able to describe it perfectly. The campaign is set in a unique universe our DM created himself. Since I play an elf, I learned their origin story in this universe well before anyone else did: the elves are actually an insanely advanced species, to the point of putting colonies on other worlds across the stars. They are literally spacefaring. On top of that, throughout our campaign we've ultimately learned that the uppermost leadership of the elves has been willingly and eagerly sacrificing entire colonies and risking all life everywhere to try and evolve "better" as they see it. For those and other reasons, elves are generally known to be extremely haughty, not necessarily narcissistic but very sure that they are superior to all other sentient life in every way. My character, however, was a rare exception. Throughout his life, he valued genuine kindness, generosity, etc. first and foremost. He was shunned by the elves for this, and it's given him a really fun way to be that character that's innocent or naive at first, but then slowly has his eyes opened ro the true nature of the world and the people in it being eerily similar to how the elves are, just in different ways. As such, I've had a plan for a while now for what he's going to do as soon as he's able to, and his moment is finally coming up: He's going to expose elven leadership and their plans, provide the evidence he's found in his travels, and tell all other elves that if they felt any unease at this revelation, to join him on his current world. Basically create a new elven civilization that won't be completely insane and want to fix that problem in their leadership. In short, he'll kind of be a "reverse magnificent bastard." After fumbling around learning about the world, he's gained the confidence he needs to stand against things antithetical to his own beliefs, and the knowledge of how to be a thorn in the sides of those things and people very effectively. It's gonna be so much fun when I drop that in game, I can't wait.
My current character is an “all skill build” who is not the most competent character in the party, but is really hard to deal with in the right circumstances. He is a changeling who started with 18 dex, 18 charisma, and 16 intelligence but his strength, con, and wisdom are all 12s or 13. The gm gave us all homebrew magic items at the start, and mine is glamoured studded leather armor that lets me learn tool proficiencies by studying and copying craftsman for at least an 8 hour shift. I went scout rogue x + lore bard 4 levels and a single level dip into divine soul sorcerer for bless, guidance, shield and absorb elements. Mix that with enhance ability and detect thoughts, you have a shapeshifting mastermind character with proficiency in all skills and the potential to be proficient in all crafts after taking the skilled and skill expert feats. With a mixture of lower level casting, survivability, mobility, and the ability to be anyone anywhere in any culture (I went the anthropologist background to learn languages faster) he has great potential for mischief or heroics, and displays both with frequency
So as a Pathfinder 1e player this can be a little easier on the stats department with traits (small flavor bonuses each character gets 2 of at creation). Combining some will let you use your Intelligence on your social skill checks instead of Charisma. Currently planning a build like that and it’s been great. For dnd 5e, introducing something similar should be possible
There's a character type I like to play which is similar to this but inverted. I call it the backhanded bard. This is a character who builds up the rest of the party, but in the most backhanded way, encouragement through insult. The party comes to depend on my character for healing and buffs, but he's kind of a jerk about it. It creates a similar love hate dynamic. The important thing is to get the players in on the gag enen though the characters aren't
I feel like I missed out for my Villain to be that way. He was a Wizard who is a ruler of a nation. So he had max Intelligence and Charisma. Which while he was a little bit cocky I don't think ever went to the way that he did for this case. Granted they ended up talking him down and him joining sides but this has made me relised that I missed out. Now I have a character that I want to play eventually that is a Wizard who worked as a Courtier so I have her highest stats ad Intelligence and Charisma so I could totally play this if I wanted to.
I actually made a character like this once, he never did anything "wrong" to the party, never disrupted or hurt other PCs in any way. But he was an arsehole 150% they knew or suspected he was one; but they had nothing against him; he even was seriously helpful in battle, by doing Battlefield control and debuffing, to make things easier for the party. I literally made sure to have good reasons to keep everyone alive, one PC was a prince another one was a very good warrior with a high rank in the military and the other was a sort of Pirate princess that had a big smuggling "company" of sorts. There was another one that was safe because it was overwhelmingly cute (a catfolk with amnesia). The PCs hated the character, but the players loved playing with him. So i'm quite proud of being able to pull it off.
Wish i had this video when I played a character inspired by Perfect Cell earlier this spring. They were a PF2e dragonblood sorcerer noble who ditched his wife and kids to join a gladiator revolt. He left his stagnant noble life behind to pursue a lifelong dream of becoming the greatest warrior, possibly by becoming a champion or absorbing of the celestial entity responsible for the revolt.
I really enjoyed this video because an a new DM its hard to know how my NPC / charecter would say this or act like or make it good for my players so i really appriciate a way for me to know how to do these Thanks
Almost amusing this trope is what spawned my Bard's mask. He socially will act like this trope, until his mask slips in front of the party in moments of true stress or emotional vulnerability... Now, I will steal some tips here to make his mask more convincing.
I'd like the sort of villain who is so charismatic in how effortlessly cool they are, but are also supremely bored by everything around them. Until the main squad comes along and... actually makes them try a little bit. Those moments of "Come on stop trying to hit me, and hit me!" And then they *do*. And the villain is like "... huh. Okay!" and while the villain really doesn't want them meddling in their plans, in the back of their heads, they almost want the party to win. They can't bring themselves to do the double tap. The villain thought there was nothing left for them in the world. But now they have something. A challenge. Rivals.
In one of my last campaigns I played the bbeg , I played it cautiously at first hoping to influence the party, towards the middle of the campaign I allowed the mask to slip telling them exactly where minions would appear and so on. I was working with the DM but the party never put it together so .. we had to change strategies (the actual players already figured it out but refused to allow their characters to know) so at the end the big fight and the big reveal the Cleric (normally our main DM helped us with a new plan) so it became a redemption arc because when we defeated the stand in NPC completely based on my PC just a little weaker, thr ceric puts her hand on my shoulder and said "now now don't you feel better being a hero?" At that point I was truly contemplating if I remain the bbeg I could finish the original story and go down in history but if I followed the rewrite for the ending it could be wholesome and a full redemption, so I did a mixture of both I walked from her embrace and sat on the throne and spoke in a bit of sarcastic tone "tis about time you figured it out..." We had to do a side quest for the Cleric to actually know and the rest of the party still remained oblivious, anyway my character gave a rye smile and nodded at the end of the statement. We did one final epilogue quest that actually leads us to our next campaign all of us being path breaker paladins to stand against our corrupt religious organization we are still working on the story but we plan on having our old characters partially fund us in some capacity we are basically playing templar's who have seen the evils that are brewing within our religion
I know this is a bit late but another villain pull is President Funny Valentine from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. His patriotism and vehement belief in it leads to his speeches sounding so genuine even though he lies so often. He's also extremely intelligent with his powers being based on strategy and careful planning. (spoilers ahead) even when Valentine loses, he almost wins by convincing the main character that he's actually the good guy and deserves to live even after committing several murders and worse. The important thing, in my opinion is that Valentine has one thing he can focus for his motivation, patriotism. I think giving your villain one ideal, goal, or even person to be dedicated to steadfastly is an easy way for the party to respect them. As long as they are confident in that belief and know what they're doing with it, they appear competent and powerful. Even in his lowest point, Valentine's last words were "my heart and actions are utterly unclouded, they are all those of justice." I think making the villain committed to the end, never wavering on their beliefs is a great way for the party to look at them and relate with player characters often also having those sort of strong ideals and goals
I do enjoy both the videos AND the sweet lady's voice that lives in your room. I do wonder if you got a ghostbuster, a wizard, a spell caster or even a priest to find out who this voice is. She is nice but like isn't it a lil creepy?
I've been doing my best to play this style of character for the last year and a half in my group's current campaign. My character is a young hag, and the "likability" part comes from her childlike reactions to the setting, which is then sharply contrasted whenever she goes full hag and reveals her 27-step plan to topple whatever obstacle we're currently facing. The party feels an equal amount of parental desire to protect this "innocent" young child and also respect for the degrees of cunning she has displayed. It's almost comical how she's turned into de facto party leader, while also adamantly refusing to take the front and center stage because "I am 12 years old" is the best excuse to never take responsibility for anything. Definitely one of my favorite characters I've played in a while.
I think most people magnificent bastards as a sort of rogue or bard role but I view it as any role can be a MB as they're sparky and helpful; good aligned characters that fit this role, imo, are characters like Sonic, Dante(DMC), or Ezio(AC2). Also, your wife is so fucking adorable! Lol I love this channel so much cuz of how you two interact
Did a bit of this character type for my first dnd character. Wasn't sure what alignment, personality type, ect I wanted to stick with so I chatted with my dm about it and thought up a sort of solution. Loosely speaking, I gave him magically induced multiple personality disorder.
My Bard-Barian I was playing in a friend's campaign would have probably been a Magnificent Bastard if he wasn't too much of an idiot. He was charismatic and pretty competent at his job, but he was also prone to getting knocked down a peg.
its funny that freddie wong was showcased in this video because his character in season 1 of Dungeons and Daddies (glenn close) is pretty good at being this
I'm writing a book with a magnificent bastard as the protagonist. I'm trying to achieve what Jorg is in the Thorns Trilogy. A COMPLETELY MONSTER that can get away with "grape" because he's SO charming and competent. Small spoilers, he defeat and entire kingdom with 5 soldiers just by using his brain.
I had some ideas kicking around for something similar to this. A character that can grow in a few ways. Confindnce, smarm, and something deeo that drives him. Deep, yet flawed. Walking into a situation from the prospectice that by what he stands for, he is Heroic. A character that can grow to become grounded ti understandinf what such a title entales, as well as the consewuences of his actions he must keep in mind, or will it be reenforced by the nature of the world that lays bare? Room for questions, room for stories to be told.
My favorite Magnificent Bastard is Teridax the Makuta of Metru Nui from Bionicle. His plan was so well thought out, the Heroes played out their roles in his plan because they wanted and needed to! Teridax put the God of the Matoran Universe Mata Nui into a Coma, and held the heroes back from helping Mata Nui long enough that when they are finally able to return and try to wake him up, he was no longer asleep, he was in the process of dying and if Mata Nui dies so does everything else! The Heroes had to rush to revive Mata Nui so they didn't notice when Teridax planted his own essence into Mata Nui's Brain and kicks out Mata Nui jettisoning him into Space, so when they wake up Mata Nui it's not Mata Nui anymore, the Heroes made Makuta Teridax the God of their Universe! "I am the ground you walk on. I am the air you breath. No longer must I fight you to rule a universe. I AM the Universe." This blew my mind as a kid! I thought the heroes finally won and this was the end...and then suddenly the main villain pulled the rug out from everybody and ultimately won! He became God!
does my first dnd character fit into this trope?👀 she is a trickery domain cleric with a one level dip into rogue currently. she's a prankster and a chaos gremlin but also has an interest in mysteries and is pretty much the brain of the group, even though her intelligence isn't the highest. she focuses more on insight and perception to get information, which usually means annoying the npcs until they say something that doesn't align with the rest of what they had told the party beforehand. on top top of that she is also a competent healer and drops her lighthearted attitude when in battle.
How the hell did you manage to get the trope talks video to be recommended right after this?? I have never watched anything like this before, yet there it is
Could you do a video on how to RP musical skills when you aren't an irl musician or singer? I've really wanted to play a bard, but can't neither sing nor play an instrument irl, so I can't RP with it to my satisfaction
I don't wanna dismiss your point here, but you haven't, in my opinion, described [specifically] how to play a magnificent bastard character archetype here. You've just described how to play the game well. Which is still great, and it *is* advice I'm recommending around with high regards, just, it's definitely advice to simply play well with others.
Alastor is the perfect example of this. His very entrance is the epitimy of charasmatic, and also his very rise to power was to topple through the hiearchy of the overlords one by one. Stupid people can't do that!
I see you use dragonball abriged from the same people that made hellsing ultimate abriged, is there a specific reason you didn't use alucard from that show in this video?
Feels unfortunate that Mister Perfect Cell took most if the spotlight despite Alucard and Victor Von Doom also being in the thumbnail. Could have looked at how they do the archetype differently.
The guys behind DBZA have said several times that when they were writing it, they didn't want it to be just funny, but to feel like a different universe's version _of_ DBZ. I guess to put it another way, DBZA has, for a long while, been written as if Oda-san was writing it instead of Toriyama-san. Yes, Toriyama-san enjoys humor, but especially by that point DBZ had become an action manga first & foremost. By contrast, Oda-san WANTS people to laugh while *_ALSO_* being hyped by it, resulting in some of the slapstick & other aspects of humor being baked into the manga. For crying out loud, he gave his lead protagonist Tom & Jerry powers with Gear 5, giving him practically free reign to do whatever goofy shit he thinks will be entertaining with future fights
Cool concept. But I think things got a little lost in the humid folds of dragonbalz. There's plenty of dnd players who just don't watch anime. And plenty of anime watching dnd players who just aren't into dbz. That's kinda laser-focused on an age range. Better, I think, to keep jumping around to examples, than zero in.
TFS Cell is an incredible pull for the sample, love that.
Hey, Jay's Wife, listen. You're great. I love the sass, it sparks joy.
But I do keep coming back for the empathy and the analysis, soooooooo today Jay wins.
It's ironic because he's not considered one on TV Tropes
Mr perfect cell was amazing to see not gonna lie.
I tried to do this once. One of the major villains of my last campaign was obsessed with perfection so she was always polite and brutally efficient in combat. I got the players genuinely terrified of her but the campaign fizzled out due to scheduling conflicts before they got to break her facade.
Ah, the bane of all campaigns. Schedule conflicts
Roll 10d20 emotional damage. Cry😢
Honestly "The table must like your character even if their characters do not" is oddly pretty consistently good advice to give. Like, in a lot of scenarios of party friction I mean.
I can definitely see a character like Sukuna from jujutsu Kaisen to fit this trope. He’s charismatically selfish, always one step ahead, and devastatingly powerful. He even cares about the Mc in his own twisted way, and fights to measure others strengths against his own
Oh you are absolutely spot on, part of me is sad I didn't think about that when writing this script.
Care in the sense that they don't care either way about anyone else, but actually hates our mc
@@commonviewer2488 Caring for someone doesn’t always have to be positive. Sukuna hates Yuji, he just cares in a negative way
Will say I do feel like Sukuna becomes a worse example of this further into the manga. The scenes where he shows his respect becomes less and less meaningful overall, that underlining sense of charisma and his own twisted sense of honor becomes less impactful.
In the final battle, it feels like they are trying to simultaneously treat it like Sukuna and Yuji’s connection matches the foil that was Mahito while also barely putting in the work to sell it in a way that outmatches Mahito. The “I’m you” pulled in each battle have staggering differences in how much impact they impart upon the reader mainly since JJK fails to really sit down and delve into the parts of Sukuna’s character besides his strength save for brief glimpses like when he invaded Jogo’s afterlife (IMO the peak of Sukuna’s characterization)
For that reason, I’d say the best examples of this trope from JJK are Mahito and Geto
@@beywheelzhater8930it definitely started to fall apart once the showdown began.
As a PC, I think an important part is to NEVER lose the arrogance. Make it clear out of character what you're doing though.
If things go according to your plan? Perfect.
If you get thumped and have to be saved by a party member? Well, you were smart to trust them.
If everything goes to absolute crap? Not your fault!
Unless losing the arrogance is part of your character's growth arc. :>
@@farkasmactavish Oh absolutely
@@farkasmactavishI agree and it should also be noted that it doesn’t mean the character can’t still carry an aloof type of personality.
@@benpurcell4935 I don't agree. More often than not, aloofness is a symptom of arrogance. If you are sufficiently arrogant, you necessarily see yourself as better than, and therefore separate from, those around you. And so you become detached. Aloof.
@@farkasmactavish There’s a difference between being completely aloof and slightly aloof is like there’s just that hint of arrogance that comes out every so often. Someone can be aloof but isn’t completely detached from reality. There are plenty of characters that come off as aloof but are well aware of their surroundings. Aloof is just a state of being distant but that doesn’t mean a character has to be constantly that way. You could think of it like mood swings. That’s just my take at least.
I had a villain once that was the bbeg who originally disguised himself as a normal old dude who would only ever interact with one of the players who he thinks would be the most susceptible when they were alone and away from the party. He spent the whole time just talking to that player about the their experiences while also discussing their views of them trying to warp their thoughts without using any spells or skill checks. Willing to both criticize and support some of their views, even ones he didn’t agree with. Over the course of the campaign, if he trusted or thought he could, he would attempt slowly get them to understand who he was and understand his views to get him on their side, using his time as their confidant against them. Eventually trying subtlety get the player to be loyal to him over the party with a genuine want to have them on his side. And should they divert as planned he uses everything he knows about them over the course of the campaign to deconstruct them completely.
Soooo... basically Palpatine from Star Wars
Yes, Palpatine played properly, through the animated series.
An optimum telepath with a super- doctorate in psychology.
Look up" foundations and empire", similar idea.
Sounds awesome!
@@RedFurios13 lol I’m now seeing it
A good example of this trope, I think, is Donquixote Doflamingo. He did have all the plans, all the power, and all the knowledge. He had the charisma and intelligence to not only take over, but lead an entire country. The only reason things started to go wrong was because of the Strawhats and their sudden and unexpected actions. He knew they wanted to destroy the SMILE factory, but as soon as they went off script and started to save the people of Dressrosa, making alliances with other groups and generally being themselves, it threw Doflamingo for a complete loop.
To be fair Takahada(I don't know his irl name) voice of Perfect Cell and Alucard Abridge has that smooth voice.
So it's not just, the character has to act the part but so does their voice actor.
I think in a party of heroes it can work, you just gotta make sure the other players are aware and give them those moments and pray the dice is on your side.
It's not a easy thing to do. But when it comes together it is awesome 😎.
The other players being aware is the most important part. If you're going to do a concept that normally grates in a regular part, make sure it's above board out of characters.
As far as Takahata goes, it's easy to find his real name, but out of respect to his wishes, I recommend not looking it up.
He also plays Borky the Orc in the Unexpectables DND group (it's on UA-cam, just search "Unexpectables DND") who is Charismatic and Dumb, because Orcs are dumb trope. He even does the impossible, gets taught how to read later on in the campaign.
I just saw Overly Sarcastic Productions video on this character trope so this is perfect timing
Same😂
Another good example of this is Senator Armstrong from MGR. 20 minutes of screentime, yet the main attraction and some of the most memorable characters ever
One thing I noticed about Cell is how much Cell is having fun. I think that's part of the appeal too, he's enjoying himself.
I like trope talks, especially about the ones I get to use as a GM. Please make more of these.
Team Four Star is so good at what they do, lol. The magnificent bastards.
I’ve played a magnificent bastard successfully before, as a sergeant in the army of an irregulars unit (pcs + 8npcs). And I played him as a coward, not in the fearful way, but in the Ciaphas Cain way of ‘the better my troops are the more people are between me and the enemy’, and ‘if the line breaks we’re all gonna die, so I’ll plug the gap’.
He consistently gets through battles near spotless but still contributing, setting up party members to have their moments ‘Hawke, we need to kill that wizard!’, yet out of battle will throw his weight around to ensue his group has all the best camp spots, extra rations, etc
Im a simple man.
I see Mr. Perfect Cell.
I click.
Honestly even DBZA Frieza was an almost likeable bastard
The difficulty is why I prefer his little brother : The megalomaniac Henchman. Because you can wave any shortcomming of intelligence or charisma by typical boss-henchman relationship or just pure fanatism.
Holy shit, a TFS clip, a Lazy Purple voice clip, then telling us to go watch OSP? Never seen a combo like that in my LIFE
Great video! I think it’s important to note that charisma comes in many different forms, and if you’re not quick on the draw with snazzy one liners as a player, that being a strong silent type is it’s own form of charisma as well.
I just realized that my last character fits the criteria you present, but he is not an antagonist towards the party. He is simply a rogue who liked to cause mischief, was good at stealing and spying, irritated the characters and people he met, but when the wizard who was the leader of the party, the rogue took control. Suddenly it turned out that without the highest charisma or intelligence in the party, he can keep everyone in line and still effectively talk to the higher-ups. He pulls the bard out of depression after the wizard broke her heart by leaving. He controlled the antics of the barbarian, who always did something unimaginably stupid. He missed the moment when the group of traitors manipulated the ranger, but was able to react quickly and give orders to everyone in the party to stop the tragedy. Or maybe it's a different archetype?
Was he still arrogant tho?
Love this concept tbh, I wanna play something like it in the future
Btw everyone wish Jay a happy birthday bc it's today! Happy birthday Jay! I'm forever grateful to have you as a player at my table, and I'm so glad your channel is something you love and have found success in. Also
Engagement
Props for the TFS DBZA Perfect Cell example. TFS HUA Alucard also fits this trope (we love you Curtis). But I feel the epitome of this trope is Gilgamesh from Fate. There are so many reasons to hate him as a character, but he's such a magnificent bastard in charisma, intelligence, and power that it's hard to hate scenes he's in. But it's definitely a hard balance, especially for PCs. I know, because I tried playing Gilgamesh in a one shot for the lols but it didn't work in that setting between 1) bad rolls that night, 2) so little time to get to know the character and 3) no session 0 conversation.
Also even in a campaign setting where your table is fine with it, this is a harder trope for PCs at an optimizer table; if everyone is bringing power gamer builds with few-to-no weaknesses to the table, it's hard to stand out as a specialist or as having a presence unless you are the face of the party. A lot of the presence you get from magnificent bastard characters is your contrast to the rest of the cast, so if every character is comparably capable (many optimizers make high dpr ranged weapon/control spell builds), you can easily lose the aspect of magnificent bastard that is standing out as a capable combatant. Just some things to keep in mind for people who want to play these characters.
I think handsome jack from borderlands fits quite well in this troupe
Man just annoys me
@dravendarkplays9607 really? Would you care to elaborate why? I don't generally see people who dislike Jack cause he's highly regarded as far as villains go so I'd love to hear your thoughts on him
I actually have kind of a fun idea for my PC in my current campaign, and this was exactly what I needed to be able to describe it perfectly.
The campaign is set in a unique universe our DM created himself. Since I play an elf, I learned their origin story in this universe well before anyone else did: the elves are actually an insanely advanced species, to the point of putting colonies on other worlds across the stars. They are literally spacefaring. On top of that, throughout our campaign we've ultimately learned that the uppermost leadership of the elves has been willingly and eagerly sacrificing entire colonies and risking all life everywhere to try and evolve "better" as they see it.
For those and other reasons, elves are generally known to be extremely haughty, not necessarily narcissistic but very sure that they are superior to all other sentient life in every way. My character, however, was a rare exception. Throughout his life, he valued genuine kindness, generosity, etc. first and foremost. He was shunned by the elves for this, and it's given him a really fun way to be that character that's innocent or naive at first, but then slowly has his eyes opened ro the true nature of the world and the people in it being eerily similar to how the elves are, just in different ways.
As such, I've had a plan for a while now for what he's going to do as soon as he's able to, and his moment is finally coming up: He's going to expose elven leadership and their plans, provide the evidence he's found in his travels, and tell all other elves that if they felt any unease at this revelation, to join him on his current world. Basically create a new elven civilization that won't be completely insane and want to fix that problem in their leadership.
In short, he'll kind of be a "reverse magnificent bastard." After fumbling around learning about the world, he's gained the confidence he needs to stand against things antithetical to his own beliefs, and the knowledge of how to be a thorn in the sides of those things and people very effectively.
It's gonna be so much fun when I drop that in game, I can't wait.
My spongebob brainrot is getting worse, im hearing plankton's voice in Perfect Cell
My current character is an “all skill build” who is not the most competent character in the party, but is really hard to deal with in the right circumstances. He is a changeling who started with 18 dex, 18 charisma, and 16 intelligence but his strength, con, and wisdom are all 12s or 13. The gm gave us all homebrew magic items at the start, and mine is glamoured studded leather armor that lets me learn tool proficiencies by studying and copying craftsman for at least an 8 hour shift. I went scout rogue x + lore bard 4 levels and a single level dip into divine soul sorcerer for bless, guidance, shield and absorb elements. Mix that with enhance ability and detect thoughts, you have a shapeshifting mastermind character with proficiency in all skills and the potential to be proficient in all crafts after taking the skilled and skill expert feats. With a mixture of lower level casting, survivability, mobility, and the ability to be anyone anywhere in any culture (I went the anthropologist background to learn languages faster) he has great potential for mischief or heroics, and displays both with frequency
So as a Pathfinder 1e player this can be a little easier on the stats department with traits (small flavor bonuses each character gets 2 of at creation). Combining some will let you use your Intelligence on your social skill checks instead of Charisma. Currently planning a build like that and it’s been great.
For dnd 5e, introducing something similar should be possible
Don’t worry Martin, we like the video
DBZA refs instead of DBZ is golden.
1:18 OSP MENTIONED
It’s such a delight to know every obscure reference you dropped in that first 2 minutes, including the Lazy Purple voice drop. You are my people 😂
There's a character type I like to play which is similar to this but inverted. I call it the backhanded bard. This is a character who builds up the rest of the party, but in the most backhanded way, encouragement through insult. The party comes to depend on my character for healing and buffs, but he's kind of a jerk about it. It creates a similar love hate dynamic. The important thing is to get the players in on the gag enen though the characters aren't
1:13 DID I JUST HEAR LAZYPURPLE?!
Oh yes you did
I wonder how lazerpoople is doing now.
@@STINKERMCGEE Slaving away at How it FEELS to play Medic
Jay's wife is too precious. Y'all are couple goals.
There is no man, alive of in fiction, that is a more marvelous bastard than the one and only; Seto Kiba!!!
I feel like I missed out for my Villain to be that way. He was a Wizard who is a ruler of a nation. So he had max Intelligence and Charisma. Which while he was a little bit cocky I don't think ever went to the way that he did for this case. Granted they ended up talking him down and him joining sides but this has made me relised that I missed out. Now I have a character that I want to play eventually that is a Wizard who worked as a Courtier so I have her highest stats ad Intelligence and Charisma so I could totally play this if I wanted to.
I actually made a character like this once, he never did anything "wrong" to the party, never disrupted or hurt other PCs in any way.
But he was an arsehole 150% they knew or suspected he was one; but they had nothing against him; he even was seriously helpful in battle, by doing Battlefield control and debuffing, to make things easier for the party.
I literally made sure to have good reasons to keep everyone alive, one PC was a prince another one was a very good warrior with a high rank in the military and the other was a sort of Pirate princess that had a big smuggling "company" of sorts. There was another one that was safe because it was overwhelmingly cute (a catfolk with amnesia).
The PCs hated the character, but the players loved playing with him. So i'm quite proud of being able to pull it off.
More please. More UA-cam and more glorious banter between the two of you. Love your videos.
Always like hearing your insights. Like how you wanna lean into the trope
Thank you for your stories. Enjoying the video.
I love that he still holds a grudge towards tien for tribeaming him into the earth multiple times in the abridged lol
I like the disembodied voice
Wish i had this video when I played a character inspired by Perfect Cell earlier this spring. They were a PF2e dragonblood sorcerer noble who ditched his wife and kids to join a gladiator revolt. He left his stagnant noble life behind to pursue a lifelong dream of becoming the greatest warrior, possibly by becoming a champion or absorbing of the celestial entity responsible for the revolt.
Teamfourstar and Trope Talk BOTH being mentioned in the same video? I feel personally seen and appreciated.
I really enjoyed this video because an a new DM its hard to know how my NPC / charecter would say this or act like or make it good for my players so i really appriciate a way for me to know how to do these Thanks
Almost amusing this trope is what spawned my Bard's mask. He socially will act like this trope, until his mask slips in front of the party in moments of true stress or emotional vulnerability... Now, I will steal some tips here to make his mask more convincing.
I love how you mentioned Tien in TFS lmaooo
"Kiko how ya doin'?"
Another great example of this archetype, aside from TFS Cell, is Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2. *Chef's Kiss*
Love the Lazy purple clip lol
I'd like the sort of villain who is so charismatic in how effortlessly cool they are, but are also supremely bored by everything around them. Until the main squad comes along and... actually makes them try a little bit. Those moments of "Come on stop trying to hit me, and hit me!" And then they *do*. And the villain is like "... huh. Okay!" and while the villain really doesn't want them meddling in their plans, in the back of their heads, they almost want the party to win. They can't bring themselves to do the double tap. The villain thought there was nothing left for them in the world. But now they have something. A challenge. Rivals.
In one of my last campaigns I played the bbeg , I played it cautiously at first hoping to influence the party, towards the middle of the campaign I allowed the mask to slip telling them exactly where minions would appear and so on. I was working with the DM but the party never put it together so .. we had to change strategies (the actual players already figured it out but refused to allow their characters to know) so at the end the big fight and the big reveal the Cleric (normally our main DM helped us with a new plan) so it became a redemption arc because when we defeated the stand in NPC completely based on my PC just a little weaker, thr ceric puts her hand on my shoulder and said "now now don't you feel better being a hero?" At that point I was truly contemplating if I remain the bbeg I could finish the original story and go down in history but if I followed the rewrite for the ending it could be wholesome and a full redemption, so I did a mixture of both I walked from her embrace and sat on the throne and spoke in a bit of sarcastic tone "tis about time you figured it out..." We had to do a side quest for the Cleric to actually know and the rest of the party still remained oblivious, anyway my character gave a rye smile and nodded at the end of the statement. We did one final epilogue quest that actually leads us to our next campaign all of us being path breaker paladins to stand against our corrupt religious organization we are still working on the story but we plan on having our old characters partially fund us in some capacity we are basically playing templar's who have seen the evils that are brewing within our religion
I know this is a bit late but another villain pull is President Funny Valentine from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. His patriotism and vehement belief in it leads to his speeches sounding so genuine even though he lies so often. He's also extremely intelligent with his powers being based on strategy and careful planning. (spoilers ahead)
even when Valentine loses, he almost wins by convincing the main character that he's actually the good guy and deserves to live even after committing several murders and worse. The important thing, in my opinion is that Valentine has one thing he can focus for his motivation, patriotism. I think giving your villain one ideal, goal, or even person to be dedicated to steadfastly is an easy way for the party to respect them. As long as they are confident in that belief and know what they're doing with it, they appear competent and powerful. Even in his lowest point, Valentine's last words were "my heart and actions are utterly unclouded, they are all those of justice." I think making the villain committed to the end, never wavering on their beliefs is a great way for the party to look at them and relate with player characters often also having those sort of strong ideals and goals
I do enjoy both the videos AND the sweet lady's voice that lives in your room. I do wonder if you got a ghostbuster, a wizard, a spell caster or even a priest to find out who this voice is. She is nice but like isn't it a lil creepy?
I've been doing my best to play this style of character for the last year and a half in my group's current campaign. My character is a young hag, and the "likability" part comes from her childlike reactions to the setting, which is then sharply contrasted whenever she goes full hag and reveals her 27-step plan to topple whatever obstacle we're currently facing. The party feels an equal amount of parental desire to protect this "innocent" young child and also respect for the degrees of cunning she has displayed. It's almost comical how she's turned into de facto party leader, while also adamantly refusing to take the front and center stage because "I am 12 years old" is the best excuse to never take responsibility for anything. Definitely one of my favorite characters I've played in a while.
I think most people magnificent bastards as a sort of rogue or bard role but I view it as any role can be a MB as they're sparky and helpful; good aligned characters that fit this role, imo, are characters like Sonic, Dante(DMC), or Ezio(AC2).
Also, your wife is so fucking adorable! Lol I love this channel so much cuz of how you two interact
high charisma + intelligence build is is the ultimate leader build and is OP both in games and in real life.
TROPE TALK MENTIONED LET'S GOOOOO
Did a bit of this character type for my first dnd character. Wasn't sure what alignment, personality type, ect I wanted to stick with so I chatted with my dm about it and thought up a sort of solution.
Loosely speaking, I gave him magically induced multiple personality disorder.
Lmao, the "fk me" dice. Thats pretty funny. Even the most litigious tongues blurt it out, its universal.
My Bard-Barian I was playing in a friend's campaign would have probably been a Magnificent Bastard if he wasn't too much of an idiot. He was charismatic and pretty competent at his job, but he was also prone to getting knocked down a peg.
its funny that freddie wong was showcased in this video because his character in season 1 of Dungeons and Daddies (glenn close) is pretty good at being this
Yes, this is a video that I like, comment and… well, I subscribed a while back, but this one would’ve done it.
I'm writing a book with a magnificent bastard as the protagonist. I'm trying to achieve what Jorg is in the Thorns Trilogy. A COMPLETELY MONSTER that can get away with "grape" because he's SO charming and competent.
Small spoilers, he defeat and entire kingdom with 5 soldiers just by using his brain.
I had some ideas kicking around for something similar to this. A character that can grow in a few ways. Confindnce, smarm, and something deeo that drives him. Deep, yet flawed. Walking into a situation from the prospectice that by what he stands for, he is Heroic. A character that can grow to become grounded ti understandinf what such a title entales, as well as the consewuences of his actions he must keep in mind, or will it be reenforced by the nature of the world that lays bare?
Room for questions, room for stories to be told.
My favorite Magnificent Bastard is Teridax the Makuta of Metru Nui from Bionicle. His plan was so well thought out, the Heroes played out their roles in his plan because they wanted and needed to!
Teridax put the God of the Matoran Universe Mata Nui into a Coma, and held the heroes back from helping Mata Nui long enough that when they are finally able to return and try to wake him up, he was no longer asleep, he was in the process of dying and if Mata Nui dies so does everything else! The Heroes had to rush to revive Mata Nui so they didn't notice when Teridax planted his own essence into Mata Nui's Brain and kicks out Mata Nui jettisoning him into Space, so when they wake up Mata Nui it's not Mata Nui anymore, the Heroes made Makuta Teridax the God of their Universe!
"I am the ground you walk on. I am the air you breath. No longer must I fight you to rule a universe. I AM the Universe."
This blew my mind as a kid! I thought the heroes finally won and this was the end...and then suddenly the main villain pulled the rug out from everybody and ultimately won! He became God!
Khun from TOG fits this tripe perfectly haha
*_Oh you are just a treat._*
I'm liking the video already
WE ARE THE RESISTANCE
Ahh, the Magnificent Bastard, a trope near and dear to my heart... assuming I still had one but i sold it for the charisma stat increase
How would you play a risk lover/adrenaline junkie without derailing the campaign?
Why handsome Jack is so iconic
does my first dnd character fit into this trope?👀
she is a trickery domain cleric with a one level dip into rogue currently. she's a prankster and a chaos gremlin but also has an interest in mysteries and is pretty much the brain of the group, even though her intelligence isn't the highest. she focuses more on insight and perception to get information, which usually means annoying the npcs until they say something that doesn't align with the rest of what they had told the party beforehand. on top top of that she is also a competent healer and drops her lighthearted attitude when in battle.
I am doing this in a campaign, but we in hell so being evil and a genius so it works
Remember, Batman IS a Magnificent Bastard so a herroic one is possible, just hard to pull off
Batman has rizz?
@thislink1519 (looks at the Bat Family and Batman Inc.) Yes.
TFS write some incredible Magnificent Bastards. like yea they are retooling existing characters but Cell and Alucard are fan favourites for a reason.
great video, it really helps
Jarlaxle Baenre is the GOAT
Yes absolutely great example
I think two examples of a Magnificent Bastard who happens to be a good guy is Joseph Joestar (S2) and Gojo from JJK
How the hell did you manage to get the trope talks video to be recommended right after this?? I have never watched anything like this before, yet there it is
Could you do a video on how to RP musical skills when you aren't an irl musician or singer? I've really wanted to play a bard, but can't neither sing nor play an instrument irl, so I can't RP with it to my satisfaction
I like the video and your dynamic
I don't wanna dismiss your point here, but you haven't, in my opinion, described [specifically] how to play a magnificent bastard character archetype here. You've just described how to play the game well. Which is still great, and it *is* advice I'm recommending around with high regards, just, it's definitely advice to simply play well with others.
I’m currently playing this archetype and having fun with it. My only issue is I feel like the “table hog”.
Cell, Alucard and Guru
so basically Takahata
I like the video and perfect cell.
If you need the perfect representation of the Magnificent Bastard, look no further than Raymond Reddington from Blacklist.
Alastor is the perfect example of this. His very entrance is the epitimy of charasmatic, and also his very rise to power was to topple through the hiearchy of the overlords one by one. Stupid people can't do that!
What was the safe word? Chenga?
Great video, more please!
I see you use dragonball abriged from the same people that made hellsing ultimate abriged, is there a specific reason you didn't use alucard from that show in this video?
Benny from New Vegas is a bit like this, He is selfish, sauve, and intelligent. While he still is able to get killed.
I wanna play a magnificent dumb4ss archetype.
We just get a call to vote?
I liked the video!
Feels unfortunate that Mister Perfect Cell took most if the spotlight despite Alucard and Victor Von Doom also being in the thumbnail. Could have looked at how they do the archetype differently.
You know.... Lloyd Frontera from "Grestest Estate Developer" is a Charismaniac with negative charisma
The guys behind DBZA have said several times that when they were writing it, they didn't want it to be just funny, but to feel like a different universe's version _of_ DBZ. I guess to put it another way, DBZA has, for a long while, been written as if Oda-san was writing it instead of Toriyama-san.
Yes, Toriyama-san enjoys humor, but especially by that point DBZ had become an action manga first & foremost. By contrast, Oda-san WANTS people to laugh while *_ALSO_* being hyped by it, resulting in some of the slapstick & other aspects of humor being baked into the manga. For crying out loud, he gave his lead protagonist Tom & Jerry powers with Gear 5, giving him practically free reign to do whatever goofy shit he thinks will be entertaining with future fights
I comment juste because i want more of this type of videos
Thanks. Trying to play Joker from Persona
Takahata is a great va
Cool concept. But I think things got a little lost in the humid folds of dragonbalz.
There's plenty of dnd players who just don't watch anime. And plenty of anime watching dnd players who just aren't into dbz. That's kinda laser-focused on an age range.
Better, I think, to keep jumping around to examples, than zero in.