The fear of hell is probably the hardest hurdle to get past when deconverting from fundamentalist christianity. I had nightmares for months about being tortured in hell after I stopped believing in God. This is because religious indoctrination is a highly emotional experience, and breaking free of the emotional baggage takes the longest. Thank you for doing this show, Seth. Listening to these podcasts helped me tremendously during those difficult months following my deconversion. I have been free from religion for 4 years now, and I don't have nightmares anymore. I am completely free, living my best life, and am truly happy.
To cheer people up, watch this fantastic music sketch from the UK satire show of the 1980s - Spitting Image, with the Atheist Tabernacle Choir - ua-cam.com/video/ryWVRS4aehM/v-deo.html
John King. Thanks, I love spitting image. Remember the Ronald Reagan sketch, "The president's brain is missing." That would work well with the current President.
Kazira S Gods nothing like that When you learn what a Christianity truly is You learn that every human being on earth was not doom to hell they were just doom to never be able to be near God again. The only thing that will enable us to be near God is the holy spirit without the holy spirit we can not get anywhere near God without being destroyed we be outside of Gods present God wanted us to be with him He was just trying to save us from this.
jcr65566. I would never want to be near the God monster, Yahweh . I'm more moral and truthful as an atheist than ever I was as a Christian. I sought the truth and the truth set me free.
I've seen people divorce from manipulative spouses. "If you leave me ill kill you." That phrase is classic to abusive people. After the breakup the battered spouse is expecting the moment of vengeance. Perhaps the same idea applies to religion?
My ex-fiancé threatened to kill me multiple times for my "embarrassing" atheism, a change I made during his biggest narcissistic silent treatment. I was already pretty controlled by then so I couldn't see it for what it was, even when the psychological abuse turned physical. Eventually it all came together & I left. The real unconditional love from family & friends was a life-saver
Exodus 20:5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me. OH OH HERE'S A GOOD ONE....Fuck me in the A****** cuz I love Jesus. 2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.
@@theone1535 Oh, thats cute. A testimony suppose to convince anyone? If i'll show you for example a person who will tell you that he/she was taken by the aliens to their ship, or that they have been cured by siberian shaman, or that they have seen a big foot, will you believe them in it, on testimony only? Or you just trolling?
@@mrandersong1 A few things that helped me personally is knowing there was a committee which of whom decided what went into the Bible. The fact that there other religions with hell myths. Learning that Hell originated from Volcanos. Hence Fire and Brimstone. Lake of fire. Being written in the bible. The final nail being that the concept of hell wasn't even originally biblical. What helped me even further, even know I was basically over hell when I started going down the atheistic path since learning about what you might call "Bad Design" in Evolution by natural Selection. That also helps too. When you realize that Evolution is real. You realize the Adam and Eve story isn't real. With no original sin. Why do we need a Savior. One that also wasn't even original, come to find out months later. Hope that helps.
I'm glad this was discussed. I've been an atheist for 3 years now, this week actually. I was a christian, southern baptist was where my beliefs were first established. The preacher, the teachers, anyone really would always talk about "The peace that passes all understanding." I NEVER had peace. I was always afraid of dying and going to hell. It kept me awake most nights. I wasn't going to be good enough and god was going to just reject me anyway, because I'm not doing it right. My whole life was built around rejections and religion can a lot of times feed on that. When I started questioning, that fear was there, the what if. I'm glad to say that I'm no longer afraid of death. It's a very freeing thing to be rid of that. If you spend your life being afraid of death, life isn't going to be very enjoyable.
Fear of Hell is exactly why it took me so long to officially ditch Christianity (and religion as a whole). Love, serve, and worship God/Jesus or be condemned to eternal suffering...no different from having a gun held to your head or a knife held to your throat. Pure unconditional love and free will, yeah right!
I left at 52 years old. I had a job in Christian ministry. Now I am unable to get a job. Would still leave anyway. Tired of pretending to be someone I am not anymore.
You made a difference in my life! I am new to atheism. Up until May I was still in the "Spiritual not Religious" camp and finally shed that last skin. THANK YOU TheThinkingAtheist!
Thomas Ridley You don't need to fear hell All you need to do is just acknowledge what Jesus Christ 2000 years aago did for you Jesus said all who acknowledge what I did for them the gates of Hades will have no power over them
@@jcr65566jesus christ ! You really do fit the bill - sheep and fish. Jesus was just a literary invention to co-opt the jewish religion. If a religion goes about breaking their own laws ,then they are false. If their rules change just to draw in more money, they are false. If they are more concerned with money than souls, they are false.
Thomas Ridley Jesus was not just a literary invention to co-opt the Jewish religion He came to finish off the 3500-year old covenant God had with the Israelites it ended when he died on the cross there is no more Judaism.
@@jcr65566 you obviuosly have been listening to the ken ham channels. Your god doesn't exist , its made up like thor or the devil. Religion is not about saving souls, its about money and power. So you can take your dogma and stick up your ass. Just saying.
@@jcr65566 If you think Jesus was real then just read the Bible. It just seems like a bunch of stories and myths with the name Jesus connected to them. The stories aren't consistent in meaning and are full of contradictions.
I was in a similar position to this guy. The fear of Hell got me for a long time - I finally got over that FEELING of uncertainty, but I still today get very angry with people who try and force Hell down people's throats. Like deep anger, knowing the damage it can cause, nevermind the twisted nature of the actual idea itself!
It really is a terrible fear. I was going through this at the height of my anxiety (I suffer from that) - and my imagination created some of the most terrifying images that still get me to this day if I think of them. At least I am over that uncertainty fear now, but yeah if I think about those things I imagined, I can still feel that sinking feeling in my stomach. So to this day if anyone starts preaching hellfire around me I get very worked up knowing the damage it can do to people.
I feel so grateful the fear of hell was not ingrained in me as dramatically as it has been in so many people. When I grew up Christian, losing my Christianity was not as difficult for some reason. And when I finally lost my "spirituality," it was quite easy
I'm an ex-Muslim convert (just 4 years but that was enough). We would have been dead by now if we typed this in Saudi, or most other Islamic countries. Literally! Glad to be in the freer countries! :-)
@@DesGardius-me7gf I don't really think that being burned for eternity, (and not discounting all of the other delights) can be considered 'better'. The idea of Hell is that it's unspeakably horrific, and it's perpetually so. There are those who believe that you'll be flayed to the bone, then everything grows back so that you can be flayed again, and again....ad infinitum. I'd say that it's probably a draw between the two versions of Hell. (If it happens to be the same Hell, the worst part for bigots in Hell is that there's no segregation between them - everyone will be tortured equally, which I suppose is quite forward thinking 😄).
I was raised in christianity, under threat of hell. Now I realize that the concept of hell was created, out of no evidence whatsoever, by the christian church as a means to keep the unwashed masses in line. I don't like the thought that when I die, that is the big, final IT. However, at least I won't be tortured forever for my "sins". I will just not exist any more. Thanks for this show Seth, and I hope Gregory gained some realistic perspective from the discussion.
KLW Ein From my neck of the woods (which is KJV-only Independent Baptists), we were taught that hell is literally under the ground, you know, with the core and the mantle, and a spurious story about Russian geophysicists in Siberia drilling a borehole and recording “screams” from Hell was used to convince us it was real.
I was in this same spot January 2018. I had left being a Muslim convert for 4 years, after being a very devoted Christian for 4 years, after being Catholic for about 11 years as a kid (I'm 25). I was afraid of two versions of Hell. I was searching for "God" *everywhere.* After leaving it all behind slowly over the course of a year (calling myself Agnostic), I finally shook off the fear of what I always call "The Magic Dumpster Fire," back around February 2018. To people who grew up Atheist, it may sound like dumb fairy tales. But, when you grow up when everyone around you believes in a magic book, you are likely to believe it to. Kids in Church, Kids in Mosque, etc. They start early. But, there is always a way out through logical thinking. I'm Atheist. I've never been happier! :-)
+Kendall A "To people who grew up Atheist, it may sound like dumb fairy tales" Yes, it feels so strange to see even intelectual people believe that bullshit. But I have been trying to understand and I specially understand how ex-Muslims have to keep any doubts as a secret but everywhere there is a majority of religious people it can be a nightmare to be an open atheist. You call yourself "Agniistic" and that is probably what you have to do if you still have some interaction with religious people, but in fact, if you don't believe in a God you are an atheist. But it's probably best to not say that in some cases. To understand how people can believe it, you need to understand the brain. It's like a grid of neurons that do pattern match, if you are programmed as a child with faulty data, reality make no sense, the bad program must be broken bit by bit until reality make a better match. For a religious , critics agaist that religion will trigger insula cortex as a danger and the person will be angry and reject the critics.
I call myself Atheist now but I would definitely would have been in jail or beheaded, if I was born in Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Iran, or another Islamic country. That's what Islam's rules are. I'm grateful to be in the U.S. We have our problems here, but I'd rather be in America and progress, then be in the stone age of a government that let's people get whipped, stoned, and beheaded. Now, I see why people are flooding to come over here from places like Syria. :-/
“I long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these new religions are so convenient - and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them - I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told.” - Altair
I say I'm an atheist because I don't feel the need to acknowledge a god that doesn't need to be worshiped or that we currently don't have any real information about (if they did exist)
Gregory , you are still a young man with much life to live. I was afraid to live my life for fear god was going to get me until I was 63 years old. The sad thing about my story is the fact that my eight year old self knew the Bible stories were BS but I let the adults convince me otherwise. Science and logic tells me the truth but a little piece of my programing still lingers as a still small voice saying , : what if you're wrong ? What if there really is a hell ?" Can't fully answer those questions until I take my last breath. No one can ...
Buell, I was like you. Always had doubts, but waited till 60 to step back and try without bias, to research if what I believed was true. Read everything that intrigued me from both sides and well, came to the conclusion that I had been duped for 60 years. Shakes one up a bit too. I have a great feeling of leaving a "cult", but the emotional pain may always persist.
I think you can reasonably answer them. Apparently, the Creator of evolution and heliocentricity and a round earth was a little confused when He was dictating the Bible. What are the chances He was in His right mind when He was describing His torture chamber?
Lioness I was so shook when I learned how different Judaism is from Christianity. Growing up everyone acted like Judaism was exactly like Christianity except for the jesus part.
Dz Nutz, " Jesus went to Hell (Sheoul) for three days, illegedly. " I think you meant, "allegedly", and if you did that is some funny stuff right there ! Woo, boy ! you made me laugh. So, are you saying there is a possibility he, (Jesus), went to this place, "hell", or Sheoul, then returned, alive ? Please. explain how that works.
Okie Dokie. I think we agree on some basic points. And I am bored at this point with all the crap people believe, because let's face it, really the only limits there are imagination and indoctrination, but I always want to know WHY people believe what they believe, and that included you. Thanx.
Good analogy with the headache. But it would be even more accurate to say, he didn't even have a headache to begin with. He only thought he did because that's what the "physician" told him
Honestly, the best thing he can do is just live. Get out of even these kind of channels that make even "non-religion" a part of your life. I hardly bother the past few years. Move on past religion, don't get stuck in it like so many here
Hell and the devil were the first things I gave up. It made no sense. There was no scripture to support it. The only evil I saw was produced by people, not some evil supernatural entity.
I've been identifying as an atheist now for about three months.I had the same problem as Gregory always afraid of hell possibly existing.In my heart I've been an atheist for ten years.I finally decided to let my fear go and feel better about it.Speaking to other atheists helped me overcome my fears.
As a new Athiest for the past 2 yrs I have never felt and been so free...I use to be afraid of hell but now I laugh at it because I know it dont exists....
I’m so sorry that this happened to you 😔😔😔. I’ve been going through this for almost 2 and a half years now. I never thought that I could feel such intense fear, and anxiety beyond anything I’ve ever experienced before. To feel so alone. Mine started after a very long period of intense stress and I was still dealing with the trauma after leaving a violent relationship. I have PTSD because of it. I also have OCD - a severe anxiety disorder, that I was born with. To make matters worse, I was initially misdiagnosed and abused within the public mental health system. I was and still am, shocked beyond belief, that I could be treated so badly in a place that is supposed to help you. I still look at my life in disbelief at how much I’ve had to go through. My fear of hell, actually started as a fear of death - which is called Thanataphobia. Which can happen to people who suffer from PTSD. And because I have OCD as well, I am just more susceptible to developing other anxiety based fears and disorders.
I remember the fear well. In my case, and for many others I'd wager, a lot of the fear during deconversion was of what people might do to me if I came out Atheist. I don't remember exactly when or how, and not knowing to the extent I do now, but even then I was aware of the intolerance of religion and religious people and that it was something that people were put to death over. It wasn't until several years after I worked up the nerve to renounce religion that I was made aware of what was really going on, and I have you to thank for that, Seth.
Being raised atheist (with some forays into various religions) I have never understood a fear of hell or god or evil. It's so hard, even at 51, to wrap my head around it. As I was listening I can see just how 180* my childhood was. As a child i had about 100 books, 1 of them was a book of bible stories. I had access to an additional 200 or so books at home (including 3 sets of encyclopedias) , plus a public library, a school library, PBS and a natural history museum (very small) at the university of Alaska in Fairbanks. Our lives revolved around science & learning.
You Only Can feel Pain With a functional Brain and Nerves when your dead you don't have a brain or Nerves therefore cannot feel Pain Hell is a Joke....So is god So is Jeeesus good day 😎
To Gregory. What helped me to deal with hell. 1) Realising, that biblical idea about hell clearly evolved and wasn't there from the beggining (it's a broad scientific consensus (secular/liberal bible studies)). Read the first 5 books of the bible (Torah). The is no a single word about the afterlife at all! What did God say to Adam? "With the hard work of your hands you will get your bread till you go back to the earth from which you were taken: for dust you are and to the dust you will go back." From dust to dust! That's all! Read Deuteronomy chapter 28. There is a long list of what you will receive if you will obey God and if won't. Do we see there the afterlife heaven or hell or something? No! Know nothing about posthumous retribution the author of psalm 73 (in King James version) and Ecclesiastes. The idea of afterlife began to take theological shape in the writings of some of the prophets. But the idea about hell is still absent there too, and ideas about "heaven" are silly and undeveloped (that's why you haven't heard about those passages at church). Just read Isaiah chapter 65 verse 20-23 and Zechariah chapter 14 verse 16-21. People die, women give birth and other "strange" stuff. Only SOME of the new testament books introduce eternal torment to us (but yes, they really do it). It all looks very human, not divine. 2) I think this short video will help you to remove your fear of hell and will fill you with confidence and calmness. Best wishes and sorry for my English. ua-cam.com/video/ttevamkS6gw/v-deo.html
just letting you know when i clicked on the video i first had to watch a 40 second advertisement for billy graham evangelical tour of Australia. not a very appropriate commercial for an atheist podcast. is he trolling you seth?
UA-cam is a weird world where advertisers can choose the kinds of videos their advertisements play on and the channel creators can't really do much about it. This disparity has become an issue this year because there are now Christian Right advertisers putting anti-gay advertisements on gay videos. Its pretty deplorable.
I do not mean to belittle anyone's feelings about hell but fear of hell is not even a factor for me. Years of studying and trying to understand the the bible have brought me to the conclusion that the gospel message, in its entirety, is nonsense. Even as a Christian there is no coherent way that one can be confident that they will avoid hell at all. A long time ago, even while I was still a devout Christian, I had already come to terms with the idea that I simply could not know and was at the mercy of god. I know there may be some Christian's on here that are confident of their salvation and will want to point out my error. You can save your breath because I have heard it all before. I would urge you, if you are that person, to study your bible looking specifically and critically for this cohesive narrative of the salvation message that you have always been told was there. I think you will find that, without bending over backwards intellectually, that the "good news" of the gospel is a collection of contradictory author's opinions and a lot of adhoc interpretations of unrelated Jewish mythology.
I can relate, great show. Was raised catholic, saved at 21 yrs old in church of Christ, Baptist’s in the spirit in Assembly of God, played in Christian rock bands from 1978- 1990. Preached, discipled street ministry. Listened to all the music: just like Seth, Steve Kamp, Mylon Lafever and broken heart, Degarmo & Key, Joe English, white heart, well you get the idea. We did a lot of charity work, you know faith in action..... but all the while reading the Bible and seeing the contradiction and fables taught to us to be real and true. Hell was one taught that you will reap if you reject Jesus as savior etc. As I pursued truth I started to see how many silly and dumb things I believed by faith or gullibility. This is my year of finally coming out. Thanks Seth for all you do on the Thinking Atheist. Im now 62 and am free from living a lie and truly embrace critical thinking, sound reasoning and secular morality. Will be in Cincinnati this year for the National Convention. Can’t wait. Thanks.
I think I have a reason christians get these visions and dreams right after ( or are thinking about ) deconversion. From a psychological standpoint, you are not only changing your lifestyle on a dime, but you also may fear being shunned by your family or friends. So these deep seeded fears manifest as nightmares from your subconcious. Once the stress was gone for me, the nightmares stopped. Do logically I concluded where the problem was and never had those dreams again. Hope this helps someone who's struggling.
Great program. It reminded me of my journey. Twenty years ago I asked myself "What does it mean to live by faith?" I stopped "doing" all the stuff that are associated with what people believe Christians should do; bible reading, praying, etc. I started listening for "the voice of god". I never heard it. Things were rather silent. Years passed and I came across S. Harris' book A letter to A Christian Nation. I found other books by prominent atheists writers. I thought, this makes sense. Then, about ten years ago, I came out as gay. 90%+ of my "church friends" cut me off. I soon discovered Atheists Experience, and a variety of other you tube pod casts. My mind started shifting. Now, life is so much better. I feel set free. Life is precious. I want to continue making things better for myself and others with whom I come in contact with. The other side, I can't tell my sisters and brother-in-law. We are all in our 60's. I would rather "play along" than hurt them. I don't know if there is any advice some one has, but that's where I am.
II really enjoyed this and can relate to Gregory 100%. The fear of hell is illogical yet its stored in my hard drive and as a recently former Christian who grew up with the knowledge of a supposed hell, its taking some time to release the fear but day by day it gets easier to get away from the story of hell. Thx for making this video!
The real conflict here is the problem one has in trying to know the difference between believing something is true, and knowing that thing to be true. Most of us not initially indoctrinated into some religious doctrine, can use basic logic, reason or the scientific process (which is really the same thing) to work out the truth of the matter. For the faithful, there is a blocking mechanism...an inability for reason to work. The idea that a loving god will burn you forever - for the incredible trivial thing - for not believing: And provide NO way to logically test if that claim is true, is a cut and dried proof (for me) there is no such monster called GOD! If you are stuck about whether or not there is a god like this, then ask yourself how YOU would treat the ones you love, and whether or not you would - for any reason - send them into eternal torment? No? Then you are better than the god you fear. Then it is logically impossible for that god to exist.
I just gotta tell you man, I was born in Tulsa and spent the first 22 years of my life there so I feel a certain affinity for you. You make so much sense and articulate it so well it makes me really proud to be an Okie. Boomer sooner! Keep on truckin’.
Robert Brown If this country gets control of our government we are doomed: Pence the bible nut,will re-kingle burnings @the stake.In front of the White House 😈,fcr non- Christians.That is worse than having Trump,ouch!
I don't think I was ever bothered by the idea of hell, . However it was fundamental in my rejection of the idea of god and heaven. My biggest problem was not the idea that I would be tortured it was what would it take (what would god have to offer me) that could be enough for me to ignore the torture of the people I know and love. So a quick question to any believers, What do you think god will give you that you honestly feel will be enough to buy your acceptance of the everlasting torture of someone you love or know now (if they are or were to become atheist)? I cannot thing of any way to be happy at the idea of anyone being tortured forever, If I was happy at the idea of Hitler being tortured it would make me no better than him.
I watched this video thinking,I am not afraid of Hell , what is TheThinkingAtheist Thinking ? I had a religious conversion,I got cancer giving doubts,I was tormented with unbearable pain when my tumor began to grow and start spreading.As a cancer survivor I am constantly wondering what the future may hold. Then I noticed It was not me, how could it be ? I have never had a conversation with TheThinkingAtheist. I tried to get your attention in a live hangout not too long ago.It was only to ask your advice , on how I would go about developing an old university Idea I had , for a gravity fed ,potential energy wind and solar powered "Water from air tower". I have a story to tell , Its shocking and may inspire others to look further than the Bible and God as the be all and end all of everything till you die and go to heaven.It may spark something in people going through the same or a similar experience dealing with a serious disease and how God abandons you when the push comes to shove and you really need him to do what he promised, answering your faithful prayers.
If you have got to the place where you can not believe in god anymore, then presumably, intellectually you have also stopped believing in hell. It's the deep emotional conditioning that's harder to get past. Some folks may be helped by some form of therapy. I personally don't have this problem as I was never a believer, but I salute you folks who are taking such a leap of reason.
When I was 12 I did not know God And for three months I had really bad night terrors. But when I learned of Jesus Christ. I found out just how powerful the holy spirit that was now in me and that we are all given really was. I watch as a demon who for three months before had been torturing me. night after night fleed from me in terror. Also, the demon and awful pit the demon had to pull me in to could no longer harm me The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. First Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free-and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory.” These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation. Paul could not say that we all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink if not all of the Corinthian believers possessed the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 is even stronger, stating that if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the possession of salvation. Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Christ as Savior. This discussion is controversial because the ministries of the Holy Spirit are often confused. The receiving/indwelling of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. While we hold that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not. This sometimes results in the baptism of the Spirit being confused with “receiving the Spirit” as an act subsequent to salvation. In conclusion, how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe. www.gotquestions.org/receive-Holy-Spirit.html
Ever been scared by a movie even though you knew it wasn't real? The kind of programming/brainwashing religion is specifically designed to do from birth instills deep visceral response to certain ideas even when we rationally recognize those ideas are bullshit. There's been much study in the field of psychology about these things.
I use the analogy of seeing a silhouette of a person in your room at night and knowing that its just a coat draped over a chair or whatever but still feeling like maaaaaybe its not... Some times you can feel that coat staring hatred at you, even though you know its not real. Unfortunately there is not metaphorical equivalent to turning on the light because doing so means actually dying.
It's like a phobia , some people are afraid of things they know isn't dangerous, so this Gregory just has been programmed in the core and must work hard to get free from it.
Absolutely relatable. A life story repeated over and over in many listeners. Sad gods we imagined that their Hells threaten us more than their Heavens entice...
Please don't be afraid of stories like this. People invent and use such stories to control others. Grownups look at the world with the eyes of maturity....looking at evidence and living a good life.
Can you clarify what you mean? Which story? Not be afraid of what?
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I never feared Hell, because I never believed in Hell at any time during my long life. Like everyone, I was born an Atheist, but I first realized I was an Atheist my first day of Sunday School.
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The Hell Myth stems from our fear of Volcanos. There is no coincidence that Bible mentions Brimstone and the lake of fire. There are other passages in the Bible that talk about Hell being below the earth. Not in some other dimension as quite a lot of Christians seem to think. Also it was adopted by Pegan concepts. The Bible is really not so original. So many Christians also call would call the Atheist Experience and their argument would be that their God is different from other religions because of the Jesus story. That too was ripped off from previous stories of Sun/Son Gods.
The more time passes, the easier it gets. I was threatened with hell constantly as a kid but once you realize there's no such thing as souls/learn about evolution the thoughts start to fade away.
Parents are humans too, people who make mistakes, people who change their minds and beliefs. Children will become adults and realise their parents are humans. Its okay to feel guilty about your mistakes. You can't change the past all you can do is do better today. God and the Devil and the whole religious model are like a huge abusive relationship based on so many lies. I hope this Gregory can break free from this relationship.
Fear is the preoccupation of wickedness, not Love. "they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us...?" (Matthew 8) "there were they in great fear, where no fear was" (Psalm 53) “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; but there is one who accuses you…” (John 5)
"whereas wickedness is fearful, it is because it bears witness to its own self-condemnation: for a troubled conscience always forecasts grievous things" (Wisdom 17) "And Jesus said unto them, Why are ye so fearful?" (Mark 4)
Quotation by Siddhãrtha Gautama (Buddha): www.religioustolerance.org/christ.htm "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
" In my opinion " "I believe that" These are two assertions that people young in age do not often say by themselves. They are encouraged or instructed to make these assertions, usually without proof. Most people (I'm going to guess 90% of all people) NEVER outgrow this propensity to believe things taught when they are young. If you don't learn to think for yourself you'll always behave and believe as a child. CHILDREN can't usually shake "hell" or "the bogeyman" once installed their mind.
Iam a Christian, but the thought of a eternal hell is very disturbing and disgusting. study the facts and do some research about conditionalism. If eterternal hell is real, how can you enjoy heaven with the knowledge that friends and family are burning forever?
Well I do understand this. I was almost to Christian pastor and did teach Bible class and preached a little bit in front of the church. When Christianity started to not make sense anymore. One thing I definitely realized being a Christian, is that our theology is nothing but a, Fear Cult. that’s it. I knew deep down inside we really had nothing to offer to human beings except that they were broken and they needed us to get away from God‘s personal holocaust to which people will burn in torture in the lake of fire forever. What does it accomplish. Absolutely nothing except the more I realize the Christianity was nothing but spiritual Nazism at the worst level.
(30:12) "I would like to think that they do fear Hell" is a terrible sentiment for a Father to express regarding his daughters. Why would anyone, especially a guy who is having his own doubts, want their children to fear a concept as awful as the Christian Hell? Nothing good comes from fearing Hell, and for a great number of Christians it's the fear of Hell that keeps them trapped within the Church. Hopefully Gregory simply 'mis-spoke', and didn't genuinely wish for his daughters to have to carry this terrible burden. That said, I don't know how many 'good' Christians I've come across who've stated with barely concealed glee that they hope that I burn in Hell for an eternity, and burning for the terrible crime of not believing in something. All while a Christian can go on a murderous rampage, but they'll avoid Hell as long as they ask for forgiveness & mutter a prayer or two to their imaginary friend. This would be a great opportunity for Gregory to free his daughters from a lifetime of psychological torture. For his sake, and for the sake of his daughters & hopefully his wife, I hope that he continues to seek the answers to the questions that have been troubling him, and that he finds some peace with whatever those answers are.
Sorry to say, but if you still fear in hell, you believe in the religion. Maybe I was lucky, because I began questioning the bible at the age of 8, and so everyone who teaches it, because they couldn't answer one question; what is the difference between magic and a miracle
Hell? Reality is bad enough without inventing more of it...but WE CAN IMPROVE IT, so, thankyou Seth Andrews (a fine Calvinist name there!) and to all who'd HELP, to improve the situation, my friends, thankyou!
This is/was exactly my same fear. I didn’t even want to confront my doubts because of course god knows what you’re thinking so I repressed them, but how can you look at any entity as a benevolent judge who won’t even tolerate reasonable questions.
Why be afraid of hell, what reason woul the devil have to do gods work & punish sinners, if he hates god he is more likely to give sinners a good time, god has been putting out some bad press on old Nick.
I'm not afraid of hell but I do suffer from a deep seated fear of not knowing how it all turns out for humanity in the long term. Upon reflection those two sets might be easily transferable at some level. I empathize with those who suffer from the former.
To cheer people up, watch this fantastic music sketch from the UK satire show of the 1980s - Spitting Image, with the Atheist Tabernacle Choir - ua-cam.com/video/ryWVRS4aehM/v-deo.html
I was raised in fire and brimstone Catholic. I never quite bought anything plus I didn't like the fact they hated me to begin with. Being Bi and asking questions yet no no no. I still can't shake how to get past this whole hell concept. I mean the best I put it is why do I believe in forever punishment if I can't even understand things in general. Though I can see were this all comes full circle. Yet I look at this if you ever want to make an Atheist out of a believer is read the holy books. I have read the Torah, Bible, and currently working on the Koran. When we don't have answers it might not fit the mark. We don't know all but we can at least find piece in we don't really know. With the current top three faiths it's the less you know the better which leads to just more questions and uncertainty.
Sorry, but I couldn't get through this whole episode. This interview got tedious and annoying about a third of the way thru. I turned it off ass soon as I started to feel I wanted to slap some sense into this guy.
Hell is pretty obvious to rational minds. The moral law is not an accident. And it is not temporal only. We have free wills which are not of course material. Everyone knows this. Out choices are eternal as being is eternal. God literally is BEING. Rejecting love eternally is a free choice and the living hell. I hope to God I don't do this in my life. God respects our choice as love must be freely given.
![Would We Be Better Off Without Religion? - Christopher Hitchens [2007] ✝️ | Intelligence Squared](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DIR7_X-ahy4/mqdefault.jpg)
The fear of hell is probably the hardest hurdle to get past when deconverting from fundamentalist christianity. I had nightmares for months about being tortured in hell after I stopped believing in God. This is because religious indoctrination is a highly emotional experience, and breaking free of the emotional baggage takes the longest. Thank you for doing this show, Seth. Listening to these podcasts helped me tremendously during those difficult months following my deconversion. I have been free from religion for 4 years now, and I don't have nightmares anymore. I am completely free, living my best life, and am truly happy.
Comical Mommy no?
hm?
Comical Mommy
Bart Ehrman has even said the same thing.
I am glad it turned out well for you.
I still have nightmares every now and then
The Christian God myth is the ultimate "Wait till your father gets home" The human beings who wrote the bible knew just what buttons to push.
To cheer people up, watch this fantastic music sketch from the UK satire show of the 1980s - Spitting Image, with the Atheist Tabernacle Choir - ua-cam.com/video/ryWVRS4aehM/v-deo.html
John King.
Thanks, I love spitting image. Remember the Ronald Reagan sketch, "The president's brain is missing." That would work well with the current President.
Kazira S Gods nothing like that When you learn what a Christianity truly is You learn that every human being on earth was not doom to hell they were just doom to never be able to be near God again. The only thing that will enable us to be near God is the holy spirit without the holy spirit we can not get anywhere near God without being destroyed we be outside of Gods present God wanted us to be with him He was just trying to save us from this.
You mean, the image of "god" created by men and written in the bible is meant to save us from "this".
jcr65566.
I would never want to be near the God monster, Yahweh . I'm more moral and truthful as an atheist than ever I was as a Christian. I sought the truth and the truth set me free.
I've seen people divorce from manipulative spouses. "If you leave me ill kill you." That phrase is classic to abusive people. After the breakup the battered spouse is expecting the moment of vengeance.
Perhaps the same idea applies to religion?
This is not the first time God has been equated to an abusive spouse. Especially the god of the Bible, excellent point!
My ex-fiancé threatened to kill me multiple times for my "embarrassing" atheism, a change I made during his biggest narcissistic silent treatment. I was already pretty controlled by then so I couldn't see it for what it was, even when the psychological abuse turned physical. Eventually it all came together & I left. The real unconditional love from family & friends was a life-saver
Oh btw. Be aware of psychological projection. "It's not my fault. You did it to yourself."
Joe Sapiens Yes it is the same!
Exodus 20:5
"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me.
OH OH HERE'S A GOOD ONE....Fuck me in the A****** cuz I love Jesus.
2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.
I am 15 years sober from christianity. I have no fear of hell.
Bob.
Well done. Stay away from Rodney Howard Brown. His bar is full of crazy drunk Christians.
let me put that fear back in you with a real testimony
ua-cam.com/video/B6lL11Tf0cY/v-deo.html
@@theone1535 Oh, thats cute. A testimony suppose to convince anyone? If i'll show you for example a person who will tell you that he/she was taken by the aliens to their ship, or that they have been cured by siberian shaman, or that they have seen a big foot, will you believe them in it, on testimony only? Or you just trolling?
How did you get over your fear of hell?
@@mrandersong1 A few things that helped me personally is knowing there was a committee which of whom decided what went into the Bible. The fact that there other religions with hell myths. Learning that Hell originated from Volcanos. Hence Fire and Brimstone. Lake of fire. Being written in the bible. The final nail being that the concept of hell wasn't even originally biblical. What helped me even further, even know I was basically over hell when I started going down the atheistic path since learning about what you might call "Bad Design" in Evolution by natural Selection.
That also helps too. When you realize that Evolution is real. You realize the Adam and Eve story isn't real. With no original sin. Why do we need a Savior. One that also wasn't even original, come to find out months later. Hope that helps.
Fear of death and eternal torture, that's why people stay religious after puberty.
Native Atheist ,yep death can be a scary thing.
This, and hope of seeing our dead friends and family members combined.
I'm glad this was discussed.
I've been an atheist for 3 years now, this week actually. I was a christian, southern baptist was where my beliefs were first established.
The preacher, the teachers, anyone really would always talk about "The peace that passes all understanding."
I NEVER had peace. I was always afraid of dying and going to hell. It kept me awake most nights. I wasn't going to be good enough and god was going to just reject me anyway, because I'm not doing it right. My whole life was built around rejections and religion can a lot of times feed on that.
When I started questioning, that fear was there, the what if.
I'm glad to say that I'm no longer afraid of death. It's a very freeing thing to be rid of that.
If you spend your life being afraid of death, life isn't going to be very enjoyable.
Fear of Hell is exactly why it took me so long to officially ditch Christianity (and religion as a whole). Love, serve, and worship God/Jesus or be condemned to eternal suffering...no different from having a gun held to your head or a knife held to your throat. Pure unconditional love and free will, yeah right!
I left at 52 years old. I had a job in Christian ministry. Now I am unable to get a job. Would still leave anyway. Tired of pretending to be someone I am not anymore.
Congratulations, and best of luck! :)
I was brought up as a hell fire and brimstone baptist who fully believed that crap. I'm glad I left the faith prior to my daughter being born.
I'm happy for u
nathan mckenzie
The phrase “God is Holy” is simply a form of special pleading.
@@DesGardius-me7gf exactly
Good for you, and better for your kids.
@@wheat3226 wholeheartedly agree
You made a difference in my life! I am new to atheism. Up until May I was still in the "Spiritual not Religious" camp and finally shed that last skin. THANK YOU TheThinkingAtheist!
Iona Moxie I’m in the same boat as you
Welcome to the real world!
:)
Heaven and hell ,the carrot and the stick gone crazy.
Thomas Ridley You don't need to fear hell All you need to do is just acknowledge what Jesus Christ 2000 years aago did for you Jesus said all who acknowledge what I did for them the gates of Hades will have no power over them
@@jcr65566jesus christ ! You really do fit the bill - sheep and fish.
Jesus was just a literary invention to co-opt the jewish religion. If a religion goes about breaking their own laws ,then they are false. If their rules change just to draw in more money, they are false. If they are more concerned with money than souls, they are false.
Thomas Ridley Jesus was not just a literary invention to co-opt the Jewish religion He came to finish off the 3500-year old covenant God had with the Israelites it ended when he died on the cross there is no more Judaism.
@@jcr65566 you obviuosly have been listening to the ken ham channels. Your god doesn't exist , its made up like thor or the devil. Religion is not about saving souls, its about money and power. So you can take your dogma and stick up your ass. Just saying.
@@jcr65566 If you think Jesus was real then just read the Bible. It just seems like a bunch of stories and myths with the name Jesus connected to them. The stories aren't consistent in meaning and are full of contradictions.
I was in a similar position to this guy. The fear of Hell got me for a long time - I finally got over that FEELING of uncertainty, but I still today get very angry with people who try and force Hell down people's throats. Like deep anger, knowing the damage it can cause, nevermind the twisted nature of the actual idea itself!
LobarRobotic
It’s a fear that crippled me for years. Believe me, I probably would’ve still remained Christian had I’d not learned what I know now.
It really is a terrible fear. I was going through this at the height of my anxiety (I suffer from that) - and my imagination created some of the most terrifying images that still get me to this day if I think of them. At least I am over that uncertainty fear now, but yeah if I think about those things I imagined, I can still feel that sinking feeling in my stomach. So to this day if anyone starts preaching hellfire around me I get very worked up knowing the damage it can do to people.
I grew up Christian and I never wondered why Jesus threatened people with hell until recently. I was always afraid to ask.
If there is no heaven, there is no need for hell. Fear of punishment is the worst part of religion. Screw "organized superstition"!
I feel so grateful the fear of hell was not ingrained in me as dramatically as it has been in so many people. When I grew up Christian, losing my Christianity was not as difficult for some reason. And when I finally lost my "spirituality," it was quite easy
As an ex muslim I completely understand where you're coming from.
I'm an ex-Muslim convert (just 4 years but that was enough). We would have been dead by now if we typed this in Saudi, or most other Islamic countries. Literally! Glad to be in the freer countries! :-)
I heard that having a monarchy period is even against the Quran. People will do anything to control others. :-/
rolling out
Personally, I think the Islamic version of hell is worse than the Christian one.
I had learned that in some instances you can get out of Jahenim (Islamic Hell), but basic mistakes sends you there. But, I agree.
@@DesGardius-me7gf I don't really think that being burned for eternity, (and not discounting all of the other delights) can be considered 'better'.
The idea of Hell is that it's unspeakably horrific, and it's perpetually so.
There are those who believe that you'll be flayed to the bone, then everything grows back so that you can be flayed again, and again....ad infinitum.
I'd say that it's probably a draw between the two versions of Hell.
(If it happens to be the same Hell, the worst part for bigots in Hell is that there's no segregation between them - everyone will be tortured equally, which I suppose is quite forward thinking 😄).
I was raised in christianity, under threat of hell. Now I realize that the concept of hell was created, out of no evidence whatsoever, by the christian church as a means to keep the unwashed masses in line.
I don't like the thought that when I die, that is the big, final IT. However, at least I won't be tortured forever for my "sins". I will just not exist any more.
Thanks for this show Seth, and I hope Gregory gained some realistic perspective from the discussion.
KLW Ein
From my neck of the woods (which is KJV-only Independent Baptists), we were taught that hell is literally under the ground, you know, with the core and the mantle, and a spurious story about Russian geophysicists in Siberia drilling a borehole and recording “screams” from Hell was used to convince us it was real.
Des Gardius 2012 I believe this 'hell hole" was debunked
kathy heitchue
It was.
kathy heitchue
From reading the KJV, it’s easy to see how people think that hell is at the Earth’s core.
I was in this same spot January 2018. I had left being a Muslim convert for 4 years, after being a very devoted Christian for 4 years, after being Catholic for about 11 years as a kid (I'm 25). I was afraid of two versions of Hell. I was searching for "God" *everywhere.* After leaving it all behind slowly over the course of a year (calling myself Agnostic), I finally shook off the fear of what I always call "The Magic Dumpster Fire," back around February 2018. To people who grew up Atheist, it may sound like dumb fairy tales. But, when you grow up when everyone around you believes in a magic book, you are likely to believe it to. Kids in Church, Kids in Mosque, etc. They start early. But, there is always a way out through logical thinking. I'm Atheist. I've never been happier! :-)
+Kendall A
"To people who grew up Atheist, it may sound like dumb fairy tales"
Yes, it feels so strange to see even intelectual people believe that bullshit.
But I have been trying to understand and I specially understand how ex-Muslims have to keep any doubts as a secret but everywhere there is a majority of religious people it can be a nightmare to be an open atheist.
You call yourself "Agniistic" and that is probably what you have to do if you still have some interaction with religious people, but in fact, if you don't believe in a God you are an atheist.
But it's probably best to not say that in some cases.
To understand how people can believe it, you need to understand the brain.
It's like a grid of neurons that do pattern match, if you are programmed as a child with faulty data, reality make no sense, the bad program must be broken bit by bit until reality make a better match. For a religious , critics agaist that religion will trigger insula cortex as a danger and the person will be angry and reject the critics.
I call myself Atheist now but I would definitely would have been in jail or beheaded, if I was born in Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Iran, or another Islamic country. That's what Islam's rules are. I'm grateful to be in the U.S. We have our problems here, but I'd rather be in America and progress, then be in the stone age of a government that let's people get whipped, stoned, and beheaded. Now, I see why people are flooding to come over here from places like Syria. :-/
“I long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these new religions are so convenient - and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them - I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told.”
- Altair
Des Gardius 2012 Never happen with out God you are no more then a slave to the state
jcr65566
What the fuck are you babbling about?
Is it weird that I'm not an atheist but i want to fight religious injustice in the world. Just a question
Not weird to me I am not an atheist either. I believe whatever God there is it is above any religion. Religion is bullshit.
The only enemy is intolerance.
WenLi Yang
I disagree. The enemy is bad and harmful ideas. Intolerance towards the intolerable is entirely warranted.
@@stiimuli
I really don't want to say the phrase. WE DO NOT TOLERATE THE INTORANCES.
You do know it kinda sound strange although it is totally legit.
I say I'm an atheist because I don't feel the need to acknowledge a god that doesn't need to be worshiped or that we currently don't have any real information about (if they did exist)
Can’t believe it took me 9 years to stumble across your podcast. I’m a fan.
All I need to hear is Seth's laugh and I instantly feel better :)
Gregory , you are still a young man with much life to live. I was afraid to live my life for fear god was going to get me until I was 63 years old. The sad thing about my story is the fact that my eight year old self knew the Bible stories were BS but I let the adults convince me otherwise. Science and logic tells me the truth but a little piece of my programing still lingers as a still small voice saying , : what if you're wrong ? What if there really is a hell ?" Can't fully answer those questions until I take my last breath. No one can ...
Buell, I was like you. Always had doubts, but waited till 60 to step back and try without bias, to research if what I believed was true. Read everything that intrigued me from both sides and well, came to the conclusion that I had been duped for 60 years. Shakes one up a bit too. I have a great feeling of leaving a "cult", but the emotional pain may always persist.
So true .
I think you can reasonably answer them. Apparently, the Creator of evolution and heliocentricity and a round earth was a little confused when He was dictating the Bible. What are the chances He was in His right mind when He was describing His torture chamber?
I always assumed Judaism also had their version of hell, so the fact they don't is super telling considering Christianity came from Judaism.
Lioness I was so shook when I learned how different Judaism is from Christianity. Growing up everyone acted like Judaism was exactly like Christianity except for the jesus part.
Yeah the two religions are not even close to one another. It’s pretty ridiculous how Christianity has the fatherhood complex over Judaism
@Dz Nutz Folklore
Dz Nutz, " Jesus went to Hell (Sheoul) for three days, illegedly. " I think you meant, "allegedly", and if you did that is some funny stuff right there ! Woo, boy ! you made me laugh. So, are you saying there is a possibility he, (Jesus), went to this place, "hell", or Sheoul, then returned, alive ? Please. explain how that works.
Okie Dokie. I think we agree on some basic points. And I am bored at this point with all the crap people believe, because let's face it, really the only limits there are imagination and indoctrination, but I always want to know WHY people believe what they believe, and that included you. Thanx.
Good analogy with the headache. But it would be even more accurate to say, he didn't even have a headache to begin with. He only thought he did because that's what the "physician" told him
Honestly, the best thing he can do is just live. Get out of even these kind of channels that make even "non-religion" a part of your life. I hardly bother the past few years. Move on past religion, don't get stuck in it like so many here
Hell and the devil were the first things I gave up. It made no sense. There was no scripture to support it. The only evil I saw was produced by people, not some evil supernatural entity.
Scripture is full of the devil and hell
I've been identifying as an atheist now for about three months.I had the same problem as Gregory always afraid of hell possibly existing.In my heart I've been an atheist for ten years.I finally decided to let my fear go and feel better about it.Speaking to other atheists helped me overcome my fears.
For Pete’s Sake. Maybe we need to create a Going to Hell Project to rehabilitate the susceptibles.
As a new Athiest for the past 2 yrs I have never felt and been so free...I use to be afraid of hell but now I laugh at it because I know it dont exists....
I’m so sorry that this happened to you 😔😔😔. I’ve been going through this for almost 2 and a half years now. I never thought that I could feel such intense fear, and anxiety beyond anything I’ve ever experienced before. To feel so alone. Mine started after a very long period of intense stress and I was still dealing with the trauma after leaving a violent relationship. I have PTSD because of it. I also have OCD - a severe anxiety disorder, that I was born with. To make matters worse, I was initially misdiagnosed and abused within the public mental health system. I was and still am, shocked beyond belief, that I could be treated so badly in a place that is supposed to help you. I still look at my life in disbelief at how much I’ve had to go through. My fear of hell, actually started as a fear of death - which is called Thanataphobia. Which can happen to people who suffer from PTSD. And because I have OCD as well, I am just more susceptible to developing other anxiety based fears and disorders.
I remember the fear well. In my case, and for many others I'd wager, a lot of the fear during deconversion was of what people might do to me if I came out Atheist. I don't remember exactly when or how, and not knowing to the extent I do now, but even then I was aware of the intolerance of religion and religious people and that it was something that people were put to death over. It wasn't until several years after I worked up the nerve to renounce religion that I was made aware of what was really going on, and I have you to thank for that, Seth.
Being raised atheist (with some forays into various religions) I have never understood a fear of hell or god or evil. It's so hard, even at 51, to wrap my head around it.
As I was listening I can see just how 180* my childhood was. As a child i had about 100 books, 1 of them was a book of bible stories. I had access to an additional 200 or so books at home (including 3 sets of encyclopedias) , plus a public library, a school library, PBS and a natural history museum (very small) at the university of Alaska in Fairbanks.
Our lives revolved around science & learning.
You Only Can feel Pain With a functional Brain and Nerves when your dead you don't have a brain or Nerves therefore cannot feel Pain Hell is a Joke....So is god So is Jeeesus good day 😎
To Gregory. What helped me to deal with hell.
1) Realising, that biblical idea about hell clearly evolved and wasn't there from the beggining (it's a broad scientific consensus (secular/liberal bible studies)). Read the first 5 books of the bible (Torah). The is no a single word about the afterlife at all! What did God say to Adam? "With the hard work of your hands you will get your bread till you go back to the earth from which you were taken: for dust you are and to the dust you will go back." From dust to dust! That's all! Read Deuteronomy chapter 28. There is a long list of what you will receive if you will obey God and if won't. Do we see there the afterlife heaven or hell or something? No! Know nothing about posthumous retribution the author of psalm 73 (in King James version) and Ecclesiastes. The idea of afterlife began to take theological shape in the writings of some of the prophets. But the idea about hell is still absent there too, and ideas about "heaven" are silly and undeveloped (that's why you haven't heard about those passages at church). Just read Isaiah chapter 65 verse 20-23 and Zechariah chapter 14 verse 16-21. People die, women give birth and other "strange" stuff. Only SOME of the new testament books introduce eternal torment to us (but yes, they really do it). It all looks very human, not divine.
2) I think this short video will help you to remove your fear of hell and will fill you with confidence and calmness. Best wishes and sorry for my English. ua-cam.com/video/ttevamkS6gw/v-deo.html
Aleksey Kasaev Too many words to try to convince yourself???
@@kathyheitchue6069 yes. Because I don't like to make weakly grounded statements, as Christians are used to.
just letting you know when i clicked on the video i first had to watch a 40 second advertisement for billy graham evangelical tour of Australia. not a very appropriate commercial for an atheist podcast. is he trolling you seth?
phil hoffman I got a 5 minute commercial for William Lane Craig's website lol
THANKS, GOOGLE!
I tend to get five minute "educational" videos from Prager U -_-
UA-cam is a weird world where advertisers can choose the kinds of videos their advertisements play on and the channel creators can't really do much about it.
This disparity has become an issue this year because there are now Christian Right advertisers putting anti-gay advertisements on gay videos. Its pretty deplorable.
Seth, you handled Gregory beautifully. Great conversation.
Man, I'm loving this podcast. Keep up the awesome work. You really are a great help to me. Thank you.
I do not mean to belittle anyone's feelings about hell but fear of hell is not even a factor for me. Years of studying and trying to understand the the bible have brought me to the conclusion that the gospel message, in its entirety, is nonsense. Even as a Christian there is no coherent way that one can be confident that they will avoid hell at all. A long time ago, even while I was still a devout Christian, I had already come to terms with the idea that I simply could not know and was at the mercy of god.
I know there may be some Christian's on here that are confident of their salvation and will want to point out my error. You can save your breath because I have heard it all before. I would urge you, if you are that person, to study your bible looking specifically and critically for this cohesive narrative of the salvation message that you have always been told was there. I think you will find that, without bending over backwards intellectually, that the "good news" of the gospel is a collection of contradictory author's opinions and a lot of adhoc interpretations of unrelated Jewish mythology.
I can relate, great show. Was raised catholic, saved at 21 yrs old in church of Christ, Baptist’s in the spirit in Assembly of God, played in Christian rock bands from 1978- 1990. Preached, discipled street ministry. Listened to all the music: just like Seth, Steve Kamp, Mylon Lafever and broken heart, Degarmo & Key, Joe English, white heart, well you get the idea. We did a lot of charity work, you know faith in action..... but all the while reading the Bible and seeing the contradiction and fables taught to us to be real and true. Hell was one taught that you will reap if you reject Jesus as savior etc. As I pursued truth I started to see how many silly and dumb things I believed by faith or gullibility. This is my year of finally coming out. Thanks Seth for all you do on the Thinking Atheist. Im now 62 and am free from living a lie and truly embrace critical thinking, sound reasoning and secular morality. Will be in Cincinnati this year for the National Convention. Can’t wait. Thanks.
I think I have a reason christians get these visions and dreams right after ( or are thinking about ) deconversion. From a psychological standpoint, you are not only changing your lifestyle on a dime, but you also may fear being shunned by your family or friends. So these deep seeded fears manifest as nightmares from your subconcious. Once the stress was gone for me, the nightmares stopped. Do logically I concluded where the problem was and never had those dreams again. Hope this helps someone who's struggling.
20:19 "fear ... even military uses it, hahah..." shots fired.
Welcome to A Brave New World Gregory. I hope you find much joy and happiness in your new Journey.
an absolutely intelligent and heartfelt conversation of a very difficult subject. You are an amazing listener, Seth!
Great program. It reminded me of my journey. Twenty years ago I asked myself "What does it mean to live by faith?" I stopped "doing" all the stuff that are associated with what people believe Christians should do; bible reading, praying, etc. I started listening for "the voice of god". I never heard it. Things were rather silent. Years passed and I came across S. Harris' book A letter to A Christian Nation. I found other books by prominent atheists writers. I thought, this makes sense. Then, about ten years ago, I came out as gay. 90%+ of my "church friends" cut me off. I soon discovered Atheists Experience, and a variety of other you tube pod casts. My mind started shifting. Now, life is so much better. I feel set free. Life is precious. I want to continue making things better for myself and others with whom I come in contact with. The other side, I can't tell my sisters and brother-in-law. We are all in our 60's. I would rather "play along" than hurt them. I don't know if there is any advice some one has, but that's where I am.
One reason I stopped going to church, is that it just seemed like such a waist of time. I didn't feel like anybody really cared.
II really enjoyed this and can relate to Gregory 100%. The fear of hell is illogical yet its stored in my hard drive and as a recently former Christian who grew up with the knowledge of a supposed hell, its taking some time to release the fear but day by day it gets easier to get away from the story of hell. Thx for making this video!
Seth, great job using computer/programming language in this great conversation with Gregory (an IT man). Thanks for sharing your story Gregory!
That Gregory... he's a character! LOL
The real conflict here is the problem one has in trying to know the difference between believing something is true, and knowing that thing to be true. Most of us not initially indoctrinated into some religious doctrine, can use basic logic, reason or the scientific process (which is really the same thing) to work out the truth of the matter.
For the faithful, there is a blocking mechanism...an inability for reason to work. The idea that a loving god will burn you forever - for the incredible trivial thing - for not believing: And provide NO way to logically test if that claim is true, is a cut and dried proof (for me) there is no such monster called GOD!
If you are stuck about whether or not there is a god like this, then ask yourself how YOU would treat the ones you love, and whether or not you would - for any reason - send them into eternal torment? No? Then you are better than the god you fear. Then it is logically impossible for that god to exist.
I just gotta tell you man, I was born in Tulsa and spent the first 22 years of my life there so I feel a certain affinity for you. You make so much sense and articulate it so well it makes me really proud to be an Okie. Boomer sooner! Keep on truckin’.
Very heartfelt and interesting podcast as always Seth !
i'm robert....and i am afraid of christians
You could use a Christian friend
baby james----ummmm---did you COMPREHEND my statement
Robert Brown If this country gets control of our government we are doomed: Pence the bible nut,will re-kingle burnings @the stake.In front of the White House 😈,fcr non- Christians.That is worse than having Trump,ouch!
I don't think I was ever bothered by the idea of hell, . However it was fundamental in my rejection of the idea of god and heaven.
My biggest problem was not the idea that I would be tortured it was what would it take (what would god have to offer me) that could be enough for me to ignore the torture of the people I know and love.
So a quick question to any believers,
What do you think god will give you that you honestly feel will be enough to buy your acceptance of the everlasting torture of someone you love or know now (if they are or were to become atheist)?
I cannot thing of any way to be happy at the idea of anyone being tortured forever, If I was happy at the idea of Hitler being tortured it would make me no better than him.
I watched this video thinking,I am not afraid of Hell , what is TheThinkingAtheist Thinking ?
I had a religious conversion,I got cancer giving doubts,I was tormented with unbearable pain when my tumor began to grow and start spreading.As a cancer survivor I am constantly wondering what the future may hold.
Then I noticed It was not me, how could it be ? I have never had a conversation with TheThinkingAtheist.
I tried to get your attention in a live hangout not too long ago.It was only to ask your advice , on how I would go about developing an old university Idea I had , for a gravity fed ,potential energy wind and solar powered "Water from air tower".
I have a story to tell , Its shocking and may inspire others to look further than the Bible and God as the be all and end all of everything till you die and go to heaven.It may spark something in people going through the same or a similar experience dealing with a serious disease and how God abandons you when the push comes to shove and you really need him to do what he promised, answering your faithful prayers.
I completely relate to this guy!
If you have got to the place where you can not believe in god anymore, then presumably, intellectually you have also stopped believing in hell. It's the deep emotional conditioning that's harder to get past. Some folks may be helped by some form of therapy. I personally don't have this problem as I was never a believer, but I salute you folks who are taking such a leap of reason.
When I was 12 I did not know God And for three months I had really bad night terrors. But when I learned of Jesus Christ. I found out just how powerful the holy spirit that was now in me and that we are all given really was. I watch as a demon who for three months before had been torturing me. night after night fleed from me in terror. Also, the demon and awful pit the demon had to pull me in to could no longer harm me The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. First Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free-and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory.”
These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation. Paul could not say that we all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink if not all of the Corinthian believers possessed the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 is even stronger, stating that if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the possession of salvation. Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Christ as Savior.
This discussion is controversial because the ministries of the Holy Spirit are often confused. The receiving/indwelling of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. While we hold that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not. This sometimes results in the baptism of the Spirit being confused with “receiving the Spirit” as an act subsequent to salvation.
In conclusion, how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe.
www.gotquestions.org/receive-Holy-Spirit.html
The only hell i fear and care about is hell on earth, made by humans
I find these stories hard to "get". He "rejects" (not disbelieves? ) Christianity, but on some level he clearly does think there may be "truth to it".
Ever been scared by a movie even though you knew it wasn't real?
The kind of programming/brainwashing religion is specifically designed to do from birth instills deep visceral response to certain ideas even when we rationally recognize those ideas are bullshit. There's been much study in the field of psychology about these things.
I use the analogy of seeing a silhouette of a person in your room at night and knowing that its just a coat draped over a chair or whatever but still feeling like maaaaaybe its not... Some times you can feel that coat staring hatred at you, even though you know its not real. Unfortunately there is not metaphorical equivalent to turning on the light because doing so means actually dying.
It's like a phobia , some people are afraid of things they know isn't dangerous, so this Gregory just has been programmed in the core and must work hard to get free from it.
I have waited.
Thanks for your story, Gregory.
Absolutely relatable. A life story repeated over and over in many listeners.
Sad gods we imagined that their Hells threaten us more than their Heavens entice...
You know you're listening to Seth when you hear him say bee-leef.
Lol
Even the Heaven of fundamentalist Christianity scares me. If God controls you on Earth, in Heaven it could be much worse!!
I’m so scared of hell. I wish I’d never heard of religion because of it
Please don't be afraid of stories like this. People invent and use such stories to control others. Grownups look at the world with the eyes of maturity....looking at evidence and living a good life.
Can you clarify what you mean? Which story? Not be afraid of what?
I never feared Hell, because I never believed in Hell at any time during my long life.
Like everyone, I was born an Atheist, but I first realized I was an Atheist my first day of Sunday School.
Ha, got you beat.
I never visited any religious service or schooling at all in my entire life
Great interview!
Shout-out to the sponsor, HelloFresh! I use them too, and it has been a revolution in my kitchen, life and that of my kid. :D I;m just a fan - what can I say?
The Hell Myth stems from our fear of Volcanos. There is no coincidence that Bible mentions Brimstone and the lake of fire. There are other passages in the Bible that talk about Hell being below the earth. Not in some other dimension as quite a lot of Christians seem to think. Also it was adopted by Pegan concepts. The Bible is really not so original. So many Christians also call would call the Atheist Experience and their argument would be that their God is different from other religions because of the Jesus story. That too was ripped off from previous stories of Sun/Son Gods.
well done Seth, great advice for Gregory
Just taper down, fear zombies, then clowns then paper cuts.
04:15 "Just go to hell"
Okay Seth...
The more time passes, the easier it gets. I was threatened with hell constantly as a kid but once you realize there's no such thing as souls/learn about evolution the thoughts start to fade away.
Parents are humans too, people who make mistakes, people who change their minds and beliefs. Children will become adults and realise their parents are humans.
Its okay to feel guilty about your mistakes. You can't change the past all you can do is do better today.
God and the Devil and the whole religious model are like a huge abusive relationship based on so many lies. I hope this Gregory can break free from this relationship.
Fear is the preoccupation of wickedness, not Love.
"they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us...?"
(Matthew 8)
"there were they in great fear, where no fear was"
(Psalm 53)
“Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; but there is one who accuses you…” (John 5)
"whereas wickedness is fearful, it is because it bears witness to its own self-condemnation: for a troubled conscience always forecasts grievous things"
(Wisdom 17)
"And Jesus said unto them, Why are ye so fearful?"
(Mark 4)
I grew up in New Jersey, so I was looking forward to a trip to Hell, always wondered what was on the good side of the track from me.
If you want to investigate this from a scientific perspective you should follow Tom Campbell and read his book My Big TOE.
Quotation by Siddhãrtha Gautama (Buddha):
www.religioustolerance.org/christ.htm
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
im not afraid of hell, i'd much rather go to hell, than to stop existing entirely
" In my opinion " "I believe that" These are two assertions that people young in age do not often say by themselves. They are encouraged or instructed to make these assertions, usually without proof. Most people (I'm going to guess 90% of all people) NEVER outgrow this propensity to believe things taught when they are young. If you don't learn to think for yourself you'll always behave and believe as a child. CHILDREN can't usually shake "hell" or "the bogeyman" once installed their mind.
I'm going through the same thing guys. It really hurts me.
Iam a Christian, but the thought of a eternal hell is very disturbing and disgusting. study the facts and do some research about conditionalism. If eterternal hell is real, how can you enjoy heaven with the knowledge that friends and family are burning forever?
Keep asking yourself questions, and research with an OPEN mind. You will hopefully get to where I did, but it took me 60 years. Freedom.
Thanks for your concerns. I still believe but Christianity feels like prison because of the creul idea of eternal hell
Well I do understand this. I was almost to Christian pastor and did teach Bible class and preached a little bit in front of the church. When Christianity started to not make sense anymore. One thing I definitely realized being a Christian, is that our theology is nothing but a, Fear Cult. that’s it. I knew deep down inside we really had nothing to offer to human beings except that they were broken and they needed us to get away from God‘s personal holocaust to which people will burn in torture in the lake of fire forever. What does it accomplish. Absolutely nothing except the more I realize the Christianity was nothing but spiritual Nazism at the worst level.
Cool video
I would be afraid too, but first they need to tell me were hell is located first? Until then, I'm not.....
(30:12) "I would like to think that they do fear Hell" is a terrible sentiment for a Father to express regarding his daughters.
Why would anyone, especially a guy who is having his own doubts, want their children to fear a concept as awful as the Christian Hell?
Nothing good comes from fearing Hell, and for a great number of Christians it's the fear of Hell that keeps them trapped within the Church.
Hopefully Gregory simply 'mis-spoke', and didn't genuinely wish for his daughters to have to carry this terrible burden.
That said, I don't know how many 'good' Christians I've come across who've stated with barely concealed glee that they hope that I burn in Hell for an eternity, and burning for the terrible crime of not believing in something.
All while a Christian can go on a murderous rampage, but they'll avoid Hell as long as they ask for forgiveness & mutter a prayer or two to their imaginary friend.
This would be a great opportunity for Gregory to free his daughters from a lifetime of psychological torture.
For his sake, and for the sake of his daughters & hopefully his wife, I hope that he continues to seek the answers to the questions that have been troubling him, and that he finds some peace with whatever those answers are.
Sorry to say, but if you still fear in hell, you believe in the religion. Maybe I was lucky, because I began questioning the bible at the age of 8, and so everyone who teaches it, because they couldn't answer one question; what is the difference between magic and a miracle
I love it when youtube puts Christian ads on atheism videos
Hell? Reality is bad enough without inventing more of it...but WE CAN IMPROVE IT, so, thankyou Seth Andrews (a fine Calvinist name there!) and to all who'd HELP, to improve the situation, my friends, thankyou!
Is it just me or does the silhouette look an awful lot like Seth?
I'm interested in learning if anyone has a fear of reincarnation.
This is/was exactly my same fear. I didn’t even want to confront my doubts because of course god knows what you’re thinking so I repressed them, but how can you look at any entity as a benevolent judge who won’t even tolerate reasonable questions.
Why be afraid of hell, what reason woul the devil have to do gods work & punish sinners, if he hates god he is more likely to give sinners a good time, god has been putting out some bad press on old Nick.
I'm not afraid of hell but I do suffer from a deep seated fear of not knowing how it all turns out for humanity in the long term. Upon reflection those two sets might be easily transferable at some level. I empathize with those who suffer from the former.
To cheer people up, watch this fantastic music sketch from the UK satire show of the 1980s - Spitting Image, with the Atheist Tabernacle Choir - ua-cam.com/video/ryWVRS4aehM/v-deo.html
Fear is a helluva drug
I was raised in fire and brimstone Catholic. I never quite bought anything plus I didn't like the fact they hated me to begin with. Being Bi and asking questions yet no no no. I still can't shake how to get past this whole hell concept. I mean the best I put it is why do I believe in forever punishment if I can't even understand things in general. Though I can see were this all comes full circle. Yet I look at this if you ever want to make an Atheist out of a believer is read the holy books. I have read the Torah, Bible, and currently working on the Koran. When we don't have answers it might not fit the mark. We don't know all but we can at least find piece in we don't really know. With the current top three faiths it's the less you know the better which leads to just more questions and uncertainty.
Sorry, but I couldn't get through this whole episode. This interview got tedious and annoying about a third of the way thru. I turned it off ass soon as I started to feel I wanted to slap some sense into this guy.
Hell is pretty obvious to rational minds. The moral law is not an accident. And it is not temporal only. We have free wills which are not of course material. Everyone knows this. Out choices are eternal as being is eternal. God literally is BEING. Rejecting love eternally is a free choice and the living hell. I hope to God I don't do this in my life. God respects our choice as love must be freely given.