Why Isn't Sonic Cool Anymore?
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- There are two adjectives that have always been associated with Sonic the Hedgehog:
1. Fast.
2. Cool.
But somewhere down the line, all but the most die-hard of fans seemed to have collectively decided Sonic just isn't cool anymore. Why is that, and can it be changed?
"Show, don't tell"
In other words, if the player sees Time Eater fly across the screen we don't need to hear Classic Tails saying "Woah. That's the monster from earlier." The player can figure this out for themselves. Stating redundant information patronizes the player, alienating anyone who isn't a child (and perhaps even children as well.) Another amazing essay.
And I really didn't like how they kept yelling, "Looks like a homing shot!" Over and over again for the entire battle.
customracer209
Right? We can *SEE* them.
HEY LOOK OUT ITS A HOMING SHOT
I'm gonna pause at about 6 minutes in to answer your question. The first thing that IMMEDIATELY jumped to mind when you asked about the coolest moment in a Sonic game was the moment the glass shattered underneath Sonic in Speed Highway, and he started running down the building. I then thought of the Sonic CD opening, but dismissed it for not being something that happens in-game.
You bring up a good point about the voice acting being so campy and cheesy that it keeps the characters from being cool. I see you're bringing up the end of SA2 as a counter-example, but I'd already thought of another one that'll be a lot more obscure. The clip where Sonic uses three wishes to seal away Erazor Djinn at the end of Secret Rings is one of my favorite cutscenes in the series, because it captures the attitude and personality of the character so well. And I say this despite the fact that Jason Griffith is my least-favorite Sonic VO! Check it out if you haven't, just make sure you get outta there before Sonic starts wishing for hankies.
Two things.
Good points
Underrated comment
Ign:But sonic was never good
Me: And you can't spell ignorant without ign
"If the Sonic Movie doesnt look like this cinematic I will be salty for eternety"
He is salty beyond infinite now
This is a comment that didn't age well, was this posted before Paramount redesigned movie Sonic?
I thought the same thing too.
@@jaccblacc8424 I mean, yeah, the comment didn't age well but it's not like anyone could have known. A major studio backing down on something like that, redesigning their character and re-editing and changing the entire movie in direct response to trailer backlash, and doing it so publically, is unprecedented.
What we had in Adventure 2,
Cool sonic that cuts random people off with “I’m gonna make you eat those words”
Now we have clown sonic that is more cringe than meme
I don't think the answer needs to be anything as drastic as "Sonic characters shouldn't talk!" I think that the best solution is to get better writers; people who actually care about this franchise and it's characters and can do them justice.
However I honestly don't think that will change much since most people seem to get some kind of enjoyment out of complaining about the Sonic Franchise. People say things like "the story of a Sonic game doesn't matter" or "we don't play Sonic games for the voice acting and cut scenes" and there's honestly a part of me that's thinking that the people at Sega are reacting to this by going "Well, I guess that means we haven't got to try as hard with those elements!" A decent and well told story cannot harm a good video game, but a bad story can! Even if a game like Sonic 06 had well received gameplay but the exact same story, people would still be scratching their heads at it's plot holes, poking fun at it's nonsensical moments, and cringing over it's awful dialogue and forced romance, and it would still hurt the game as a whole.
But like I've said before, this is the Sonic Fan Base, and whenever something goes even the slightest bit wrong everyone has to over exaggerate. And it always seems to have been that way. So Sega clearly have got a long way to go to get Sonic back to his former glory, but the fans have got a lot to think about as well!
While I agree that improving the quality of writers would go a long way to improving the series appeal, it's only part of the issue. The other part is being too over-reliant on dialogue when something might be better-suited to being conveyed through other means.
That said, Ian Flynn has had a fantastic run on the Archie Sonic comic that proves that some dialogue CAN be effective for this series, but I still think reducing the amount to occasional sound bites to the degree of something like Mario would be the more elegant approach.
Thanks for your thoughts :)
well sonic did talk in the OVA and it didnt hurt it at all, he should have a voice, but he shouldnt be so talkative. i guess more like master chief and less like link or gordon freeman as far as talking goes.
"But like I've said before, this is the Sonic Fan Base, and whenever something goes even the slightest bit wrong everyone has to over exaggerate" I think you mean if a Sonic game comes out that isn't Sonic the Hedgehog 2. As a fan of Sonic games, I will say that the fanbase has some of the most unpleasant and unpleasable fucks I have ever had the displeasure of associating with. Just about the only worse ones are LoZ Elitists, Potter Heads, Dark Souls fanbase, and Witcher fans.
+spikeharusame People always talk about the so-called worst fan bases out there, but I will always give most of them some credit that they actually show some genuine affection for the franchise in question. The Sonic fan base (or as I once heard somebody call it, the Sonic HATE Base, which to me is way more accurate) seems to dwell on negativity. I saw an article in a magazine that was about the history of Sonic and there was a section on Sonic's friends, and I swear not a single positive thing was said about any of them; it was all the same lame jokes we've heard over and over again (Shadow is an Emo, Rouge is a whore, Big the Cat and Charmy Bee are the worst things ever EVER). Seriously people, it's getting old!
And the tragic thing is that if you try to stay positive, all of a sudden YOU are the one in the wrong! If you say you like SA2 then you'll get your head bitten off by rabid fans who'll go on and on about how overrated it is and that there's absolutely nothing good about it! You try defending characters like Shadow or Silver and people will assume that you're one of those fans who creates those poorly designed, awfully thought out fan characters! And if you say you don't have a problem with Sonic's modern design and gameplay style, all of a sudden you're not a true fan! These things wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the fact that this negative attitude is clearly affecting the games. It seems like the games have just stopped naturally progressing and evolving and are now resorting to mindless fan pandering. Like how nowadays Classic Sonic has to be shoehorned into every game because Sega are too afraid that people won't buy a game because of how much people seem to hate Modern Sonic. I don't think Sega need to worry, because most of these fans will still buy the game, but just so they can bash Modern Sonic and talk about how lame he is and how he's "trying too hard to be cool" and praise the everlasting crap out of Classic Sonic and how he's so awesome just because he isn't Modern Sonic.
Don't get me wrong, there are fans who are the complete opposite who just can't accept criticism and think everything Sonic related is gold. For example, I don't mind people defending bad Sonic games, but when Sonic 06 first came out there were fans literally calling it the "best game in the entire series, best story, best gameplay, best graphics". And I just couldn't help but think that's kind of pushing it. And again, at least the love is there.
These are basically the reasons that I have completely run out of patience with this franchise and it's so called "fans!" I can't even watch fan made Sonic videos anymore because they just seem to come from a very hate filled place and are too mean spirited towards the Sonic franchise. I wish I were exaggerating about most of these things, but sadly I'm not. There's a part of me that hopes each new game will be a success, but every time a new game is decent there's always got to be someone who'll bitch about something and then everyone just jumps on the hate bandwagon. And at this point I just can't take it anymore.
Bowmaj 86 modern sonic games aren't bad when only 3 bad games sonic 06 sonic boom and sonic lost worlds are the only bad modern sonic games. Classic Sonic has had more bad games then there is only 4 good classic games cuz sonic and knuckles is technically suppose to be a part sonic the hedgehog 3 the bad games of the classic era is sonic spinball sonic 3d blast sonic labyrinth sonic R and I'm sure I'm missing one some where in the classic sonic era that is bad.
Sega needs to watch this.
Tidal Yacht
Ok... what does that have to do with this...? You make it seem like this video doesn't offer anything that could improve Sonic when pretty much everything he said was true.
If they would they would make more hard work than this.
Not anymore.
Your a dummy you idiot
Yeah, Sonic just isn't cool anymore. It's actually gotten to the point that I've lost interest in Sonic the character, although I can still appreciate good gameplay. I think the writing from Colors onwards plus Roger's Sonic voice ruined it for me. I haven't played the storybook games so I can't speak on those, but I haven't cared about a Sonic story since Sonic Unleashed. You described it perfectly, it's like now Sonic has become a caricature of himself, trying so hard to convince us that he's cool instead of actually being cool.
I don't think less dialogue is the answer though. As someone whose favourite Sonic game is Heroes, one of the things I loved was the characters discussing things as they happened. I feel like, when done right, this really did convey Sonic's personality, even though Heroes story was very bare bones.
One of my favourite in-stage dialogues was:
Knuckles: "We're not going there, are we?"
Sonic: "Yes we are!"
Sonic just said 3 words, but the way he said it exuded confidence, cockiness and bravery, the desire to proceed and fight against Eggman/evil regardless of the risk. Also the dialogue in the Unleashed intro after Eggman fake apologizes was pretty convincing as well. The right amount of cocky, without being a straight up douchebag, It's things like this that made me fall in love with the character in the first place.
I honestly believe with the right writing, and the right voice actor, Sonic could regain that personality.
premydaremy basically you're playing a game ypu don't care about, right
Tidal Yacht
Kirk _can_ fit Shadow. The problem is the way he's directed uses a voice that doesn't fit him. Look up Jin for the dub of Samurai Champloo and tell me that wouldn't fit Shadow... I know you can't. Lol.
Sega need the voice directors from Black Knight back.
+premydaremy The truth couldn't have been spoken any better than this. And I definitely agree that as for the voice actor, Jason Griffith really needs to get a call back from Sega to be Sonic again. Next to Ryan Drummond, he was the best voice actor who could perfectly portray how cool Sonic can be. I honestly think Roger has done an okay job with Sonic thus far, I.E. Generations and Lost World. But he truly only fits Boom Sonic which isn't even canon of course. It's really not fair nor making any sense why Mike Pollock as Eggman was the only 4kids actor to stick around while everyone else got the boot. We need Lisa Ortiz back to stop Amy from sounding like Minnie Mouse, and Dan Green returning as Knuckles to stop him from being a completely retarded idiot. And I'd like to see Griffith return as Shadow too. By the way if you haven't played either of the storybook Sonic games, you're in for a treat. Sonic Black Knight is a pretty good game and features Jason Griffith's absolute best performance as Sonic himself.
*****
I don't think we need the 4Kids cast back. There are plenty of voice actors in LA that could work great for the Sonic Series. The 4Kids actors weren't really that great, outside of Jason Griffith, Lisa Ortiz and Mike Pollock. And as I said, there are way better actors out there.
I wasn't meaning bring EVERYONE back. But at least get the 3 I mentioned. And heck, as for other actors imagine if Sega went and got Johnny Bosch to voice Shadow. I think that would be cool.
Sonic stop being cool ever since the writing for Sonic Colors.
Good God, the writing.
That's what I've been saying, colors was the point
The game becoming comedy focused has nothing to do with the fanbase. It has become comedy focused because it is trying to copy everything else. Almost every franchise ever since 2010 have become comedy based, not just sonic. I blame the modern era, everything is either strictly for kids or strictly for "adults" .
It's not the same photoshopping hairline in Sonic Colors this that's not for kids
moo moo I hear Sonic's Lost Cause was even worse
moo moo that’s true after the actually good opening you get sonic saying BALDY MCNOSE HAIR
I agree that Sonic's design is awesome but I think that his personality is fundamentally flawed because of the era he was born in. Sonic is a living representation of culture in the 90s. He was made to be what every kid in the 90s wanted to be. Cool, cocky and independent. Because of this, he is a product of the times and was doomed to be outdated after the 90s ended. I think thats why Sonic began to drop in quality at the start of the 2000s.
If only there was a way to bring back some aspects of that personality on Sonic without it coming off as outdated.
No...that just doesn't make any sense the quality of his games has nothing to do with his personality the quality of sonic games dropped because Sega stopped making consoles and just left the console market which it made things harder for sonic team to make sonic games and then in 2004 they were acquired by Sammy known as Sega sammy today and this...was the final nail in the coffin instead of make things better it got worse and the quality of sonic games went to shit! and that's how sonic 06 came to be thanks to that acquisition..with the exception of sonic unleashed that's how the quality of sonic games got worse after sonic adventure 2 not because of his personality because of bad decisions, financial problems and for the fact they got bought by a gambling company which made it even worse!!
Plus his personality isn't fundamentally flawed you act like Sonic's personality was always a problem but that's not really the case the real reason why his personal mity was shit! In 2010's was because he was just written badly and misunderstood...
I hope every Sonic fan sees this vid. Not all have to agree on it, but I want them to at least understand why most of the older fans feel the way they do about Sonic's current games.
Thunderclasm I'm with you on that, I'm pushing 32 now and I've been with the franchise since 1991, ask any older Sonic fan and they will say the Sonic CD opening and closing animations (by Toei animation studio 'Dragonball') are literally the highest point of Sonic being "Cool and Badass".
Sonic over the years has slowly been changed from "Individual in the wrong place at the wrong time with the power to stop the tyrant" to "Generic Super Hero with super speed" if there's a problem Sonic and his friends will fix it.
I mean I haven't got a problem with Sonic being a Super Hero but that's just not Sonic's personality, he's more of a "If ya in trouble I'll help ya" kinda guy.
Andrew He isn't you're stereotypical super hero though. he's just a Japanese teenager with the ability to run fast. he does these things because he does want to.
It's Colors onwards that tries to make him look one dimensional.
Thunderclasm classicist elitism justified by cutscenes instead of gameplay? thats honestly a tad more pathetic.
Sonic isn't cool anymore Becuse.
We are force to play as him over and over and over agian what if I want to play as tails my #1 fav sonic c for crying out loud. Or silver or knuckles. Why should I be force to play as Sonic red Sonic green sonic and classic sonic
It's just dumb and not fair I'm sick of playing as just sonic
I just hope sonic forces keeps it's promises. With haveing a darker tune to the story
The Sonic Riders opening is one of my favorite moments along with CDs intro and Unleashed's first cutscene. As for how he acts with voice acting I remember liking his personality a lot in the storybook games.
Dude, thank you for reminding me of Riders' opening. That really was fantastic, I still love that sketched style.
TheKazeblade I really hope a future Sonic game has a stylized animated opening like Riders. His animated openings are some of, if not the best intros this series has.
The animated intro was made by the same animation studio who produced the Attack On Titan series.
Apple Slipper nice
Also the cutscenes in that game were pretty neat, especially the faces.
I dont think Sega was trying to portray Sonic as a cool character in the recent games. I think they were going for more of a Fun loving, go with the flow, optimistic guy. A less exaggerated portrayal of what made him fun. I am however a fan of your idea of making him more expressive. I think the funny, relaxed dialogue should be kept as it makes him enjoyable to see on the screen though.
He kinda had those characteristics though even when he was being portrayed as cool
Sorry for being half a decade late to this conversation lmao. I feel like him actually making decisions and taking action makes him a lot more enjoyable to see on screen than cracking bad jokes. After all, we’re here for the speed. If we can’t play it, let’s see him do the things that would be too hard to control. Thinking about what makes cool people cool, they’re usually pretty silent, speaking sparingly, only when necessary. Link from Zelda is a good example of this and he doesn’t speak at all
@@dylanbaron__ I've definitely somewhat turned on my opinion. Especially with his not great frontiers voice. If I had to pick a portrayal for sonic personally then it'd be the ova/cd version. I think classic looks better and I like his cocky snide sounding voice in that a lot more.
I agree and disagree.
I agree that Sonic worked better when both dialogue and visual action worked hand in hand, and that now, ever since Colors, all you see are retarded Saturday Morning Cartoon/Seinfeld rejects blabbering cringe-worthy nonsense and sad attempts at jokes while standing idle, waving their hands like spastic monkeys at best.
But I disagree when saying that Sonic should limit the dialogue for more visual stuff. Cutscene animations in games like these are quite the workload, so they need to be used sparingly but well timed. Sonic needs better writing AND exciting visuals altogether. Secret Rings and Black Knight were the good writing and voice acting, SA2 and Unleashed were the visually stunning spectacle. If both of these aspects were put together, than we would get an appealing Sonic game.
Cybernik The Hedgehog
The problem is how little Sonic can express himself with the Unleashed Model. One thing I always appreciated about the Toei cutscenes in CD was how expressive and cool Sonic could be without even saying a word. Not that I'm saying he shouldn't talk at all, but I think balancing out the "Show, not tell" aspect of the series mixed with well written dialogue by someone like Ian Flynn would make for a great narrative and awesome cutscenes
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy And that right here is another reason why I don't really like the Modern Sonic model.
But yeah, there should be more visually stunning action scenes. Not idiots standing idle telling horrid jokes or whining over how mundane fighting Eggman is.
Cybernik The Hedgehog
Yeah. It is a great model, but it's just not good for cutscenes.
+Cybernik The Hedgehog To be honest the model looked great in Adventure and Adventure 2. (Sonic even grins when spinning or jumping. **Sigh** the series lost, so much after Yuji Naka left. From character nuances to their quirks that made them stand out.) Not as profound, but everything that was Sonic was still there. I still prefer C-D and OVA Sonic by a mile off, especially when it comes to his personality. (It's a darn shame that anime was never a success. Especially when considering the translated version now has 6 million views on You Tube.) That's why it always pisses me off when idiots try to tell me that Sonic's: 'Gone back to his roots!' No he hasn't, he's far more less distinguishable than ever. The tone is wrong, the character is not there and the humor god awful!
+Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy Sonic Team's biggest sin was butchering Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations. Seriously, whose dumb-ass idea was it to turn a bad-ass into a cute mute plushy?
Cool is subjective, and Sonic is a Static Character trying to identify with a Fluid term.
This is the largest problem with the series as a whole. Sonic has No identity to follow.
I think what made Sonic cool in the first place was his confidence and cockiness.
@@trojanforfurries2383 and attitude.
Sonic has been a horrible caricature of himself since Sonic Colors.
The cast has been through some massive Flanderization:
Sonic: Sonic himself was a laid-back, sassy, and overconfident adventurer that loved adventure and stopping evil. But since sonic colors, they made him into a jokester that can't be taken seriously.
Tails: Tails has always been Sonic's sidekick who would always be by his side, but in the adventure games, he couldn't rely on sonic to do things for him, as he needed to become a hero himself. Nowadays, he's just the tech guy.
Knuckles: Knuckles was the competent guardian that was a foil for sonic, but in the recent games, they made him a lot dumber.
Amy: Originally, she was a cheerful girl who loved a lot of things, but now she is just obsessed with sonic, and not in a clever way.
Shadow: He replaced knuckles as Sonic's main rival, and his reputation as a character got destroyed in his game by trying too hard to be edgy.
Dr. Eggman: Remember when he was taken seriously in the adventure games. Nowadays, it feels like he's a joke that can't be taken seriously anymore.
Yeah, Dr. Eggman is a likable villain, but yet i was surprised he was about to kill sonic.
2010. 2010 is when Sonic stopped being cool.
Roger Craig Smith is why, Sonic was cool up until Black Knight, then Colors came along and suddenly Sonic seemed like he was trying too hard to be cool instead of just naturally being that way.
Roger's voice works on Boom Sonic, but not normal Sonic.
BRING RYAN OR JASON BACK
Don't blame actors for how characters are written, blame the writers.
Xcalibur64 Tru
Dude if jason griffith was voicing sonic colours would it really change how the script sounded
I just miss jason griffith
kj walton so do I he was the best
kj walton
I miss Ryan Drummond post SA2. He sounded exactly how Sonic should in Sonic Heroes.
Yeah. I loved his Sonic and Shadow.
Tidal Yacht Ryan was awesome! infact he was the very first sonic I met. I was born in 1998. So I had no idea what the original sonic looked like at my age. My very first sonic game was Sonic Heroes. Went to gamestop asked my mom if I could play the classics and LOVED them even more to that current age sonic. Sonic 3& Knuckles got me the most! That being said Sonic Heroes was the only game that I played that had Ryan voice acting because I didnt know what was sonic adventure 1 and 2 were. And as I grew up upcoming sonic games were voice acted by Jason Griffith and he became the ideal sonic to me. I noticed Sonic was taller after heroes so my young brain thought that ryans voice actor grew as well and never thought that sega got a new voice actor XD
Tidal Yacht same here I prefer the voice actors from the adventure era
some tones of your voice sound like sonic.
As a kid I tried really hard to sound like him, and now its so engrained in my speech pattern, I think it's just part of how I talk now, lol
TheKazeblade pretty cool
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that might have happened, haha.
He sounds a teensy weeny bit like Ryan Drummond.
TheKazeblade *C H I L I D A W G S*
i blame pontac and graff for modern games' terrible's story
because that was a time when sonic was filled with dark and edgy stuff. now, he is filled with silly and quirky stuff.
Mikael Fernandes around that time we got games like Sonic Unleashed and Black Knight which have their Fair balance of a comedy and drama. it's kind of funny when the dark ages of Sonic is actually when Sonic storytelling was at his best, 06 aside.
Tom Magenta
That's why we need Ian Flynn.
Mikael Fernandes Sonic always been edgy and dark, it was just disguised by Micheal Jackson music, cocky additude and Earl's voice...if spoken that is
Luna Lupe no he hasn't. take a look at Sonic Adventure. yes it has themes of sacrifice, genocide and traumatizing the young but it also has themes of bettering yourself as well as the usual cute and silly Sonic and Amy dynamic. also Big the cat is Clueless. As usual.
I like this guy and his style. Great script, great delivery, great quality. Earned a sub
T-Dub. he didnt earn one. not even close. to deserving one
Well, first and foremostly I want to congratulate you on 530 subscribers.
If you were to ask me what I think the coolest moment in Sonic is, I would tell you it's either the "There is only one Sonic" from the Sonic OVA or the end to the last story in Adventure 2.
What you have to remember is that in 1998-2001, voice acting in video games was still a relatively new thing that very few, if any games had mastered. My go to example for this is _Castlevania: Symphony of the Night_. The acting in that game is so deliciously hammy and over the top that it's sort of hilarious. But generally, we didn't take it that way as kids.
I believe that the same applies to Sonic, or at the very least it can. People, at least the ones that I've talked to, seem to unanimously agree that, even to this day, voice actors for say, Dr. Robotnik such as Jim Cummings and Deem Bristow are still pretty intimidating, even to this day.
I, personally, LOVE Ryan and Martin Burke as Sonic. The dialogue for the former may have been kinda hot garbage a lot of the time. but it was the _delivery_ that made it worth it. Do the animations and movements of the characters help this? Yes and no. Yes, it's true, the movements in the 90's Sonic cartoons, as well as Sonic X had that cartoonish, exaggerated movement. But that's not the reason that shows like Sonic SatAM worked, quite the opposite, really!
Sonic SatAM worked because of the story it had to tell and the dichotomy of the characters that played off of each other. It's no masterpiece of Biblical proportions or anything, mind you, but I don't think that removing the voice acting would make it better.
As for Sonic Underground and Sonic X, voice acting and dialogue is _NOT_ the reason why they didn't work. They didn't work largely because of pacing issues, in Sonic Underground's case, the...horrendous music if we're being generous, lack of focus, among other things. Sure, the voice over and dialogue didn't do these shows any favors, but as I stated, they're not the reason they didn't work.
The personalities of the Sonic crew haven't really changed, they're just more...pronounced, I think would be the word I'd use. Sonic is still the same cocky, irreverent hero he always was, Eggman is still the eccentric genius, and so on and so forth.
But to pinpoint voice acting, dialogue, and character animations as the reason people are losing interesting in Sonic? I don't think that's entirely accurate, going back to my earlier example, Sonic SatAM is probably one of the more down-to-earth Sonic cartoons in terms of animations, as opposed to the more Looney Toons-esque Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. Can you guess which one is more popular?
The writing of Looney Toons has never exactly been superb either, but the dialogue and voice acting gives the characters that much more of a memorable edge. To quote BlazeHedgehog's "How DO We Fix Sonic?" video, "Bugs Bunny has been around for over 80 years and has never lost his edge, so, why should Sonic?"
And yes, you could argue that he had just as much edge without dialogue, but the voices of the characters are well established at this point, it's more or less a part of them, most people, including many I talk to regularly, couldn't imagine anyone who isn't Mike Pollock being Dr. Eggman, as you've said.
Ken Pontac and Warren Graff are atrocious writers, this is true, but writers like Ian Flynn make dialogue in Sonic work, and work really well. At that point, it's just a matter of getting a good voice director, which, in this day and age, shouldn't be hard at all to do.
Mike Pollock has been Eggman for 15 years now, that's why it's hard to imagine him with another VA these days. Roger's Sonic is way too Cringey & combined with the awful writing from Pontac & Graff, as well as Sonic Team's decision to overfocus on Sonic, the entire 2010's decade has been terrible for Sonic. Interestingly Omega's current VA would have been a much better fit for Sonic (just imagine Edward Elric or Keldeo's voice), Sonic Team probably doesn't even realize what they are doing wrong with the series.
Not many people talk about these cutscenes, but I think the pre-boss cutscenes in Generations (except for the pre-final boss cutscene) are some of the coolest we've gotten out of the series. No dialogue, all action. I don't think voice acting should be removed from the Sonic series, but it'd be nice to get more moments like these.
YES
American Sonic like from SatAM seems to have more personality and cockiness than Japanese Sonic.
The coolest Sonic has been was with the Toei Animation in CD, imo.
Yo, I LOVED that bit.
Syogren
And rumors at flaoting around that we may see stuff like that in Mania... If so, Mania's gonna be even more flames than it already is.
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy there will be a fan game based on Sonic toei animation called Sonic freedom in sage 2018 the creator has put a link on you tube
+116238653721098976800
Yeah, I've seen that before. Looks really cool. Imagine if they were to combine the 3D open momentum based gameplay of Sonic Utopia, with the ability to use parkour to vault and leap over obstacles, like Sonic Freedom? And if they took the art style of the Toei Sonic cutscenes and used cel-shaded graphics for the game that mimic that anime style, like the Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Games?
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy Yeah I have exactly imagin a Sonic game like this with the Sonic Utopia style and Toei animation for decade thanks to the add of Sonic 2
I personally enjoy all voice acting from jason griffith for sonic that voice and those quotes always got me hyped like "I'm not a rat I'm A HEDGEHOG"
Sonic is no longer cool because instead of aging the character with the fanbase, SEGA has chosen to market Sonic & Co. as a product for (especially younger) children. This is evident by the games going from fast-paced, sprawling platformers to simple action RPGs with rail runner elements that insist on actively holding your hand and telling you what to do the whole way through. The biggest marketing mistake SEGA ever made was gearing the only character keeping them afloat as a company to a demographic that does not appreciate it and completely ignoring their longtime now-adult fans.
Please keep on doing videos like this my man. As an Adventure fan, I'd love to see modern Sonic become a confident running series with solid writing and sparse but fantastic dialogue. You could be the one that changes that bro. Don't stop making videos dawg.
I agree with everything here, EXCEPT the voice being the cause of Sonic's lack of coolness
Like, literally everything else, including how actions speak over words and how having Eggman be a larger source of dialogue can really benefit his character,
but dialogue isn't what took away Sonic's coolness. It's his inactiveness.
let's agree on one sonic thing
The Sonic Saturday morning cartoon was awesome!
not "the adventures of sonic the hedgehog"
A large part of it is attitude change as well. While Sonic has always been a hero and "good guy", a large part of this has been due to his impatient, and action filled lifestyle. In Sonic CD, which was possibly the strongest visual representation of Sonic, he wanted to find Little Planet because he thought it would be exciting. He travels the world in search of adventures, beating Dr Eggman as an act of good will and for the thrill. While it isn't portrayed as well in Adventure 1, it's very prevalent in Adventure 2. From the opening scene of the Hero Story Sonic is breaking out of a helicopter and down to the city below cocking a smile the whole time. He charges Shadow on sight. When imprisoned he paces the floor, foot tapping, and even runs in place in frustration. Once released he bolts after getting Amy's information. When he's seen standing still it's always briefly, usually to coordinate a plan. After SA2, Sonic acts like a Hero. Lot's of "i'm here to save the day", and "lets use teamwork guys." The additional dialog use and bland delivery are icing on the cake. He doesn't emote as an impatient and action crazy adventurer, he just seems like a lame superhero doing his job. This is even worse in the modern era. Here Sonic is either blandly delivering and reviving lines, or egotistically annoying. His lame one liners, god like attitude, and literally comparison of his adventures to that of a repetitive job for comical purposes compare to that of a celebrity high off their own success. While it is unlikely that modern sonic will avoid dialog altogether, Sonic can still better himself like you mentioned. Classic sonic can live on as a cool and cocky silent hero, as Sonic Mania seems to demonstrate. Modern Sonic should be like Adventure 2 Sonic; lighter on dialog and action crazy while still heroic.
Me: “I’m a Sonic fan!”
Some random kid: “I don’t watch Sonic Hedgehog.”
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!?
"When has the writing ever been good?" Uhh Unleashed?
Unleashed wasnt good at all, adequate at best if we're being really generous.
I gotta say; two videos in two weeks and I'm liking you already. Both essays on Sonic were well written and well executed. Too bad those videos are kinda the only videos you have uploaded, but I'm looking forward to seeing what else you'll deliver. Keep up the good work!
This might be unpopular but Sega should look to capcom more specifically devil may cry and how dante is especially in the third and fourth games dante is never static and always using his dialog to either entertain before/after boss fights or to move the story along. Sonic should adopt the same thing
^This
He's not cool anymore because SEGA thought it would be a great idea to change his character from actually cool and easygoing dude to a walking meme machine who never shuts up.
While I don't agree on the narrative that Sonic Characters shouldn't talk, I do agree with the fact that most of the cutscenes nowadays are just the characters rambling on and on. Their so static, and not much is going on in them, Colors and Generations being the worst offenders. It's been confirmed by Shun Nakamura that Motion Capture is coming back for this game, so that could mean for more dynamic movement. Let's hope that it's to Unleashed standards and not 06 and Adventure 2 standards.
One thing that would really help in general is overall better writing. Pontaff are pretty terrible writers, at least for the Sonic series, and they should hire someone who is invested in the story and the characters, so the game is overall more interesting to play. There's a lot things going on with the Archie comics, and there have been speculations about them getting cancelled. While that is quite depressing for the fans of the Archie Comics, I feel that one good thing that could come out of it is Ian Flynn writing for the games. I feel that he understands the Sonic cast very well, and can write a serious story, but not one that goes overboard in the tone and can dile it back. There have been rumors about him writing for the game, as he said something ominous about it on his twitter, but I can only hope.
So, more dynamic cutscenes, a better writer for the games, and great voice acting, and boom, there you go. "Cool Sonic", at least to me anyway. What's your take on it.
The original Adventure had the perfect tone if you ask me. Had a clever way of delivering humor without making it the main focus or feeling forced. (Going into the Egg Carrier to see that Eggman has robot vacuum cleaners everywhere was fantastic! Or how about how he'd a Sonic whack-a-hedgehog game in one of his rooms? Basically it'd be better off for the humor to be expressed throughout the game-play instead of waving it in the players face via cut-scenes.) Unleashed is still too far on the reject Pixar side of things. It don't suit the franchise. (I'm referring to moments like: "They call this a sandwich...") Though on the other hand I will admit that I've way more respect for Unleashed when it comes to the effort of the story and writing.
Shadow Might While I do agree that Adventure 1 has a pretty good tone for the series, I personally prefer Unleashed and how it handled it's story and characters. There are some shaky bits here and there like you mentioned, but I thought that the story was delivered very well. One of the few games that I felt made Eggman seem both intimidating and funny at the same time, and one of my personal favorite lines from him come from the Egg Dragoon boss fight were he tells Sonic how annoyed at the fact that Sonic constantly thwarting his plans. Mike's delivery (along with just about every character in that game) was absolutely perfect at making you actually feel bad for Eggman. Plus the ending with Chip gets me every time, I didn't really get that same feel with Sonic Adventure. Everything kinda just went back to normal with no consequences whatsoever, which is fine, but it"s story never really resonated with me as much.
Another game's story that I feel doesn't get mentioned as much as it should would be Black Knight. It's story has a very good blend of serious and comedy as well. The comedy mostly being between Caliburn and Sonic, which I found hilarious. The seriousness being there as well. Merlina was a great antagonist, Caliburn literally dieing before the fight against Merlina, and Knuckles nearly killed himself because he lost to Sonic, which Sonic then proceeded to talk sense into him. One thing I really liked about the story in particular was in the beginning where Merlina had to explain to Sonic that he basically had to kill King Arthur to assure that their world's don't merge together and Sonic's reply was "Well, guess I can't be the hero all the time". And to me, that speaks volumes for the type of character Sonic is. Sonic is the type of person that fights for what he believes in and if that something he believes in can cause trouble, he sets that aside because he knows that ultimately good will come out of it.
Make no mistake, I've high respects for Unleashed. I really do :)
Though, I wouldn't say the cost of Station Square was no consequence. I mean yeah Sonic saved the world, but Chaos still ended up drowning many of Station Square's population to death. Not exactly Sonic's best performance when it comes down to his heroics, so no there were massive consequences. It could even be argued that Sonic failed to save everyone.
Shadow Might But didn't they say in game that nobody was hurt in all that took place in Station Square. Tails literally said "All's well that ends well, right Sonic?", implying that nothing all that bad happened.
Nope, all Tikal said was: "The fighting is over, peace has been restored and life goes on." She said virtually nothing about any of Station Square's folk surviving and then Tails said: "All's well that ends well, right Sonic." as a response to him saving the world. Station Square was still fucked and its residents dead thanks to Chaos's wrath.
I think a big issue is Sonic's characterization now. He used to be cocky and impatient, and tended to underestimate the people around him, and although he could also recognize a threat when one appeared, he still tried to appear confident in front of his friends to give them hope. New Sonic on the other hand is either 0 or 100. He's either spouting corny one-liners and taunting opponents, or he's complaining about how there's nothing he can do, and how all hope is lost. I do think that the corny voice acting in the adventure games were a detriment to the coolness, but with better delivery, some of the lines could've come off as really cool, such as the very first line spoken by sonic in SA2 "Talk about low budget flights, no food or movies... I'm outta here! I like running better!" It's a cocky one liner, yes, but it's one spoken right before jumping out of a helicopter, not one spoken while standing there pointing at the enemy. The context makes it cooler, but the original delivery makes it falter and seem cheesy.
This video is so right about everything... Every little detail... Except one. I think Sonic should have a voice, but he just don't need to talk very often, because seeing an voiceless Sonic among talking characters (especially Eggman) would be somehow weird for me.
I agree.
Heroes is probably the best example of voice acting in a Sonic Game.
The cocky attitude and the Sonic CD like action without talking was and has always been amazing.
I'm happy you addressed that in the video instead of getting the worst example possible :)
One thing I love about Sonic is how Sega still experiments with him, they change locales and gameplay with pretty much every other game, and I love that they take those kinds of risks. The same cannot be said for Nintendo and Mario who have been playing it safe for the past 10 years (And I LIKE Mario)
spikeharusame
They experiment because they have nothing to lose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
spikeharusame agreed
spikeharusame Games like Super Mario Maker, Color Splash, and Odyssey would like to disagree
Daniel Martin color spalsh is ehhhhh thousand year is better
The 2D Mario I would agree play it safe and are extremely fucking unoriginal starting with New Super Mario Bros DS and ending with Mario Bros Wii U. That's only 4 games though. But when people say MARIO plays it "safe" they forget Sunshine, Galaxy 1 & 2, 3D World and the upcoming MARIO Odyssey.
The coolest moment in a Sonic game for me was the last cutscene before the final boss in Sonic and the Black Knight (garbage gameplay but seriously the best story in any Sonic game). Specifically the last part, when all the knights tell him to run, to flee before Merlina kills him, that this isn't about knights or chivalry anymore, and Sonic's response is:
"It was never about chivalry for me, I just gotta do what I gotta do, that's all."
That moment has stuck with me ever since. It's the epitome of what I want Sonic to be and I think in this scene he was a freaking badass (and then afterwards he gives Merlina advice that basically makes him a paragon of wisdom).
I understand why you have a grievance with dialogue, and I admit that the strengths you list for Sonic are strengths they leaned on heavily for the cutscene I mentioned, but still, I found it very annoying that you couldn't even consider the idea that people who would protest the removal of dialogue are anything more then stubborn fans that don't know what's good for them, that it just wasn't possible that someone would think of a scene with dialogue when asking for a cool moment. Like if you're not even going to try to consider my opinion on the subject, why should I consider your's?
I personally think Yuji Uekawas Sonic Advance games artwork had the best design for Sonic in modern era and the classic Japanese artwork from Sonic 1 - Sonic 3&k was the best design for the classic era. Sonic CD design was too chibi and smol. It's cute but not cool and fitting for action packed scenes.
Neat video, can agree on how Colors and Generations were the worst offenders for ruining Sonics coolness, I also wouldn't mind having voice-acting at least become more minimum, due to how badly it's been handled recently, Sonic seems more childish and as a character doesn't leave me at awe.
You're videos put into words feelings I've had about sonic games for a long time...
Good Job
Back during the genesis days I always though sonic was just a rageaholic. his idle animation was angry and his eyes looked angry all the time.
"What's the coolest moment in the Sonic series" Yeah, Unleashed's opening cinematic was the first thing to come to mind. Absolutely stunning.
A well-reasoned video, but it's missing one very important point: "Cool" is subjective. Such subjectivities in mind, what gets widely seen as cool fluctuates with eras and trends. If you're going to accuse the more recent games of coming off as trying too hard compared to the good old days, it's only fair to remember that the Sonic ideal set in those good old days was rather nakedly calculated to tick trend boxes. It had flashy colors, a character who moved like an extreme sports athlete, levels that looked like Hot Wheels sets, and environmentalist undertones. Moreover, fans were already getting accustomed early on to the notion of Sonic talking, since Jaleel White voiced him in all three American cartoons made in those days, and his dialogue was about the "California Beach Bum" style that would linger in actual games. Basically, the "cool" you talk about Sonic being back then was the early-to-mid 1990s version of the adjective. Same as Shadow was the early-to-mid 2000s version.
I myself have long been of the opinion that being "cool" is an idea that has run its course in this series. I don't think it's a rainbow worth chasing; what I want is for them to make the series GOOD. A series can be good without following trends.
I personally am good with Roger Craig Smith's Sonic, from what I've heard. I vastly prefer Sonic to express his swagger through non-era-exclusive wit over spouting such vacuous and dated drivel as "way past cool" or "dude with a tude". I like Sonic funny, although I wish his world was a bit more serious.
"A well-reasoned video, but it's missing one very important point: "Cool" is subjective."
That depends on if you're using it in a subjective manner, it doesn't mean something isn't cool just because someone isn't saying it is, and the subject itself has nothing to do with Sonic because him being cool wasn't subjective.
For me, the definitive "cool" moment for Sonic is during the intro to the Hero story in SA2. The shot of Sonic pulling off a piece of scrap metal from the helicopter and plummeting down into the city while giving the camera a cheeky grin has always been one of the most defining parts of Sonic's character for me. There's a great blend of cockiness, teenage rebellion, and outright fun held in that shot that it always comes to mind whenever I think of what Sonic should be.
An absence of games during the mid-90s, and a string of pretty terrible games and design choices during most of the 2000s.
And furries. Seriously, the Sonic fanbase on the Internet is *frightening*
David Curry bit as frightening as the steven universe fandom, ill take furries over gem stones thank you
Even though this hurts my heart a little, I never looked at Sonic and saw a lack of cool. He's just represented cool to me for so long that I can't unsee that
You should do this for Mario. Funnily enough, the EXACT OPPOSITE happened to Mario and Link, Especially during the Gamecube-Wii era.
"A caricature of himself."
Such a good way to put it god damn.
to be honest the sonic adventure era was the one that made me love sonic and i love the art work i just used to be a huge fan until sonic started being so linear and only focused on boosting and the classic sonic gimmick
You know, I'd never considered the addition of dialogue being a factor in the changes seen in the Sonic series. You posed a very insightful point of view for the discussion, and made me think about the subject from a different angle. I've seen your other videos, and I really like what I see. Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see you develop...and yes, I did subscribe. You're worth it.
I can somewhat agree on the dialogue aspect, but only to an extent to be honest. 'Cause yes the dialogue direction wasn't necessarily the best, I thought it was still effective. Firstly, from a personal standpoint Sonic Adventure 1 (Dreamcast) was the first Sonic game I ever played as a 5 year old at the time, so I had no idea what to expect. However, the voice acting comparison between SA1 and 2 where SA2 did have overall better voice acting.
For example some of Sonic's lines in both games.
Sonic Adventure: "Aw yeah! This is happenin'!" "C'mon ya big drip! Where ya goin'?" "I've had enough! Who do you think you are anyway?!"
Sonic Adventure 2: "Talk about low budget flights! No food or movies? I'm outta here! I like running better." "I'll make you eat those words!" "Eggman Empire. Yeah right!”
Yeah the dialogue may sound cheesy especially in Sonic Heroes, but for a character that's not just a speedy, impatient blue hedgehog that is light-hearted and upbeat yet not afraid to show a serious side when necessary, I still think it works just fine. Now save for the later games like Sonic 06, Colors, Generations, Lost World and Boom where his character has been a bit underwhelming with Sonic himself coming off as trying to act cool, to being just a complete dick sometimes. I'm not saying his character is terrible, it's just being turned in the wrong direction. It does reinforce as to why I truly feel like next to the classic era without voice acting, despite the shoddy voice direction the Adventure era represented Modern Sonic in the best way and are still my most favorite titles in the series. Sonic was definitely cool in the Genesis era, and just took to the next level as the franchise progessed. I love both Sonic's artwork designs from both the early days and the newer designs just as equally. Ryan Drummond and Jason Griffith will always tie as my favorite actors for Sonic, and while I wasn't warming up to Roger Craig Smith at first, it's kind of grown on me now. I do think both some later games and character display and attitude play a huge part in the diminishing reputation of Sonic; but I believe there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Sega did apologize for the lackluster Sonic games, and just recently claimed wanting Sonic to return to what it once was. With games like Sonic Mania and Forces just around the corner, with the vibes they give off, I feel it seems as if Sonic is finally returning to his original form and charm. Besides, we are talking about a character who's the complete opposite of a certain Italian plumber (ixnay Mario) a former business rival, which was Sega's initial takedown target to begin with. Mario games have next to no memorable dialogue besides "It's a me, Mario! Wahoo!" and "Let's a go!" While the Sonic series has plenty of it. Sega does what Nintendon't so to speak. Even if his character has been underplayed recently, in my eyes Sonic will always be way cooler than Mario, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Ratchet & Clank, or Jak & Daxter would ever be. Not just because of what Sonic says; but because of what he can do, and how he gets it done. I guess I could even say "It Doesn't Matter". I still love Sonic to this day, and want to continue playing his games 'till the day I die.
DING DING DING DING DING yeah that's basically me. It's honestly what made Sonic cool to me, his lines. As cheesy as they may sound, it still made me look up to him. Not just as a hero, but as a hero with some personality, maybe a bit of dorkiness and cheesiness. And he just...doesn't care. He doesn't care if he sounds dorky or cheesy, he just goes with it, he feels no need to conform to standards. And in a way, his games have been like that too to some degree. Many of the things people complain about in Sonic games due to breaking game design rules are the things I like about Sonic in the first place. Not feeling the need to fit in. Not feeling the need to do what everyone else does. Being fine with being himself. That's what made him cool to me
And ultimately, I feel like that, to some degree, that's possibly why I don't see him to be quite as cool anymore. The series at current feels more scared...timid...unwilling. Like they want to just do what everyone else is doing. Like for example, the planetoids and overall gameplay structure of Sonic Lost World feel like an attempt at trying to copy Super Mario Galaxy, the only aspect of the game I really liked being the parkour, which, ironically, is not in Super Mario Galaxy. It felt less independent. Less care-free. Less risky. So I can still like bits and pieces of the game, sure. It just doesn't...feel the same. It doesn't feel as rebellious.
It almost feels like the series is too afraid to just be itself. To just flip off the "haters" and just do whatever the heck it wants to do. To follow its own vision, not that of others. To have confidence in itself again.
People lost faith in Sonic because Sonic lost faith in himself. If Sonic can learn to love himself again, I'm sure people will love him again too.
As someone who would like to become a mascot/character designer in the future, I would like to thank you for this video! You mentioned points that had never crossed my mind like that and gave me a whole different perspective on the differences between "being" and merely "acting". Thank you!
I just want an sa2 remaster...
Denham Varas-Curl We have the HD remaster on playstation...what are you talking about?, I prefer a remake...with all done from the ground...like really...the dialogue is bad, the phisics...oh god and the design of the levels is so weird
Denham Varas-Curl We need somenthing like what they did with Crash Bandicoot
no
Denham Varas-Curl SA2 already had a remaster and the game is shit either way even if it gets an HD Makeover
He means a remaster from the ground up. A la Crash Bandicoot?
Another word I would personally describe Sonic with would be “Hero” and “Brave”. This might be because I got into the series through the second mega drive/genesis game, and the gamecube ports of both adventure titles and onward.
As a child I could instantly click with his character as I saw him act cocky and (of course) cool in the face of danger, helping those that are in need of help, and just being a good source of morality as he was one of the few characters I looked up to as a childhood hero.
But if I were to answer the question brought forward in this video. It would have to be the lack of detail in nowadays sonic games that hasn’t been seen since Sonic Unleashed and tried again recently in ( I’ll give credit where it’s due) Sonic Forces. Between colours and lost world, cutscenes mainly consisted of dry humoured banter and lacked the cleaverly planned choreography that showed sonic was cool, rather than told he was cool.
Excellent video, as I agree with quite a lot in it. I just hope sega either directs their writers better, gets more or new ones, and goes back to what made the character who he was.
I still think Sonic is cool. Just his 3D games post adventure... aren't.
What happened? Yuji Naka left.
" And his *swagger* "
*rolls eyes and clicks away video*
Amazing analysis, man. I can't tell you how much I agree with the idea of showing and not telling. Sonic's best moments are when he isn't talking and just doing what he does best. Unleashed's opening cutscene defines everything about how Sonic should be portrayed, in my eyes.
I don't mind lines like "I'll show you" or something. I feel like Sonic should take a page out of Mario's book in terms of just having brief utterances during a cutscene or level.
Have the story be told through other characters like Eggman and let Sonic react to it, accordingly. With actions not words.
These video essays are so damn cool. I love how in-depth they are, and how you manage to make them so addictive and entertaining. Incredible work here, man. Keep it up =)
great rant. it's really something i never thought about before.
I don't find a character who's all about a waggle and a foot tap to be all that endearing. cute but nothing else. Honestly, that actually sounds more like an actual caricature on the lines of Mario than a real character. one with no development, paper thin personality that isn't all that relatable or understandable without a description trying to tell "you this guy is cool"
people unanimously stopped calling Sonic cool because of Pontac's jaded, child pandering writing that rivals Teen Titans Go and Sonic Boom's unenthusiastic tone. not because he started to speak. one of the most endearing parts about this series were the character interactions and chemistry to get to know the quirks and flaws of everyone and see certain ones develop. If there was no dialogue, I would never sympathize with Blaze nor would she be anywhere close to being my favorite character. Being an introvert myself who was also harassed during childhood I strongly relate to this character, from wanting things to be done by myself to the point of struggling with the help of others to how she thinks to even how her temper explodes. (many other people feel the same about how I feel with Blaze when it comes to other characters and their own unique personalities.) but how would a character like this work without dialogue? It wouldn't. Her story would become white noise because she would not be able to express her introvertedness if everyone else is just as silent as she is.
and recommending that they would get rid of all of that for nothing but action scenes ruins the whole point of good, memorable action scenes to begin with. using them haphazardly will make the grandiose go stale real fast and will the lead the whole thing into a Michael Bay snore fest. you will become desensitized to it. Just take a look at the recent CoD campaigns. you can barely remember what the hell happened because it's always explosions every level. eventually nothing will feel like it matters anymore. this is even a depressing phase that Superhero films are going through right now when before, films like the first two of the Spiderman trilogy had a heart and soul to connect to. and the only rebuttal you get for pointing that out is "just have fun damnit." on that note, on the opposite side of the spectrum, Gamma's moment only work because there was dialogue to set it up earlier in his story. it felt much more meaningful because the motive and thoughts was clear to us, not just him.
Answer: Sonic Wii games + Sonic 06
Minus Sonic unleashed & colors of course
Sonic never talking is a bad idea, his snarky additude and sharp tounge are some of his defining attributes since day 1, he's an exuberant teenager. He isn't a reserved silent protagonist, he's a cocky adolescent who isn't afraid to say what's on his mind. Really it just boils down to shit writing of why he isn't cool.
Anything before 06 was cool
CraftyLaurence
....Expect Shadow the Hedgehog. That was... cringeworthy, to say the least.
Unleashed?
Shadow wasn't cringe worthy. That game did nothing more then what we saw in games like Conker's Bad Fur Day, Star Fox, and Ratchet and Clank.
SoGo Unleashed was great.
I mean, that opening cutscene, the opening to the Egg Dragoon fight watching the Werehog whip around with sparks flying, the confrontation with the Egg Beetle, watching him go super in the finale, the list goes on. Unleashed in my opinion is a good example of making Sonic cool with dialogue.
And I have high hopes for Sonic Forces to do the same.
But I can agree that most after Sonic 06 weren't particularly cool.
Fun? Sure.
Cool, no.
Lyoko Gem
Eh... it was KINDA cool.
Some parts anyway...
7:00; Well, Sonic was heavily inspired by action movies, so of course its dialogue should be like, well, " a dumb action movie, " it IS! Embrace that! That's what made it popular in the first place!
I guess you can say he is way past cool?
hahahaha g-git it?
because past is back in time. And he used to cool.
so clever
Wow you are explaining the joke, exactly like what sonic does in colours
SA2 did a good job, When Amy was going to break Sonic out of his cell and Sonic was stuck, he's constantly fidgeting and moving, Which not only helps the cool factor, but it's in character that someone like Sonic wouldn't be able to stand being stuck in a dark and small prison cell. And would be a bit irritated about Having to wait on Amy to let him out.
I honestly think modern Sonic is pretty cool. Way better than Adventure imo.
I mean just look at the breakdance and aerial poses he does in generation and colors. The writing may be really terrible, but the animations are great and clearly fit Sonic's personnality
"whoah the whole city's on fire!"
However, I don't care what you say, Sonic is cool.
Shadsy The Hedgehog
You probably didn't watch the video...
Not anymore...
Shadsy The Hedgehog because you are a fan of this blue creature and other shits, that doesn't mean ur Sonic is cool ! 👎👎👎
+Shadsy The Hedgehog I bet whatever goes into one of your ears, just passes through the next.
joao games meh, me too for u
Giving up voices for characters for Sonic to attempt to be cool sounds like a horrible idea to me..
WHAT THE FUCK IS A SONIC!?
Tchitchouan Inouane Original Friend: I just landed a good job! What about you?
Me: Pursuing my true self.
Sonic absolutely needs to see a return to the expressive animation that he had way back when. There's just no question about it. However, and this is probably just me coming from a different part of the Sonic fanbase, I will have to disagree on the idea that Sonic shouldn't talk.
Back to the Sonic and Shadow confrontation, much of why that scene appeals to me so much is for the reasons you described, the strong camera angles, the exaggerated movements, you name it. But the dialogue is what takes it to a whole new level of "epic" for me. Now, the actual scripts for Sonic Adventure 1 and Sonic Adventure 2 aren't exactly the most amazing things ever, but ultimately I still find I enjoy them quite a bit. And the reason isn't because of the actual words and how they say it, but what those words mean. The ideas behind the words, the ideas behind the script. I find these ideas so mesmerizing that they end up shining through the rather botched execution and help to elevate so many moments in those games beyond how they would otherwise feel, at least for me.
The fact that Sonic and Shadow are talking during their confrontation aboard the ARK helps me engage with the scene much better than if they had just been silent. If Shadow just tilted his head in confusion, followed by Sonic smirking, obviously the intent is the same, but I just can't pick it up as well. The event is too complex to fully convey what exactly the characters are thinking, doing, planning, and feeling, at least to me, without explicitly spelling out these things like the scene did. The scene simply wouldn't work for me without voices, regardless of how they try to make up for it in animation. But because they talk it out, it is probably my favorite scene in the entire series, rather that just a really cool scene that I like.
Now this does come with the possible implication that maybe they shouldn't try to create stories so complex that characters need voices to convey things, but those kinds of stories are the ones I like the most. This is namely a result of me having joined the series well after the decision for voice acting had already been made; my first Sonic game was Sonic Riders, and from there I ended up working back to the Adventure games. Because of this, I did not experience the era of no voice acting; heck, I was born in 1996, so I didn't even exist during that era.
As a result, I find the idea of a silent, or at least soft-spoken Sonic, somewhat unnatural, having experienced it my entire life. While I enjoy many of the silent moments in the Sonic Series, I feel that they only really work for me if they are moments, rather than the entire experience. I like talking, I like talking to other people, I like hearing people talk to me, and I like hearing people talking to each other. Hearing a character talk sort of enforces the idea that they are real in my brain, helps me relate to them, and helps me suspend my disbelief, as I have never met a person who doesn't talk.
So for me to enjoy the presence of Sonic characters, they do need to speak, at least some of the time, and this includes Sonic himself as well. So I would complain about the removal of voice acting, not because I'm too set in my ways to appreciate a better product, but because that was a major component of what I liked in the previous product. And this would result in the supposedly better product being worse for me. Blame Sonic Team's decision to be so many things, I suppose, for why so many people with differing opinions and desires ended up in the fanbase like this.
That said, however, it's important to note that WHAT Sonic says is far, far, far more important than whether he says something at all.
In the Sonic Adventure games, and to some degree up through Sonic Unleashed, Sonic still generally gave an impression that he cared about the situation that was going on, and wanted to get things done. He seemed to say things that sounded more or less like what you would expect a cocky blue hedgehog to say, something that Classic Sonic might potentially say if he had a voice. He was willing to just go out and do things, and do them quick, and displayed a great deal of impatience. He'd smirk a lot, make a lot of exaggerated gestures, and overall, mid-level dialogue aside, felt like how some person would actually act...most of the time, at least -glares at Sonic '06-. Overall, I did feel that the dialogue mostly suited the character, and I enjoyed having it in there.
Then Sonic Colors came out and turned him into a complete memester that barely even cares about...anything. If previous Sonic portrayals had been increasingly less faithful to the original idea of what Sonic is, then this game practically walked all over it, set it on fire, and threw it out the window.
So ultimately, if Sonic is to say anything, it should 1) be relevant, and 2) not make me question whether this is the same guy I thought was super cool back in the day.
So really what I want is a fusion of both techniques of conveying the character. The animation and the dialogue being used to ENHANCE what the animation has already done, rather than fight it. Sonic saying things that make sense in the context of what's happening, elevating the scene beyond what it can do through animation alone. The moment that the dialogue directly conflicts with the atmosphere, there's going to be a problem.
And it is this aspect of voice acting that the Sonic series has struggled with for so long. Moments like that confrontation in the ARK are rare even in the Adventure games, and have become more and more scarce as time has gone on. It's not that the voices shouldn't be there, it's that Sonic games aren't taking advantage of the potential that voice acting could bring to the series if used well.
And I absolutely think that they can be used well, as I have felt that this has occurred in pockets throughout the series, and just needs to be refined and polished to really make it work the way it needs to. Write a better script than in the Adventure games. Think Sonic. Can this particular scene be enhanced with Sonic saying something? If no, don't have him say something. If yes, figure out what it is he should say. And I think that the answer is indeed sometimes yes. I do think that some scenes could be enhanced with Sonic talking, just not all of them, and certainly not if he spouts Colors+ dialogue all day.
I would rather the Sonic Series try to use what it has already decided to use than change its mind and take a step back. Sonic has already made the decision to have Sonic talk. It's too late to take that back. It has already happened, so it must keep happening. So while Sonic can and probably should say less than he is right now, reducing his speaking almost entirely to silence would feel more the series running away from a problem rather than fixing it. This is something the Sonic series has done on multiple occasions, choosing to ignore the mistakes it has made in the past rather than just admitting that it made mistakes and doing the best it can with the mistakes it had made.
Because just because a series reverses a decision it made doesn't mean that it didn't make that decision. Sure Sonic is going back to the boost formula after straying from it, but it still strayed from it. I still remember Sonic straying from it. The series can't make me forget that it happened by simply pretending it didn't. It's going to have to take that decision into account. It's going to have to address the content that game added and changed, or whoever played that game is going to feel as if 1) there was no point in sitting though that ordeal of a game, or 2) they were jilted by being presented a game they preferred only to have the series immediately drop it like a hot potato. Either way, disappointment.
This is the situation voice acting in Sonic is in. Even if it wasn't a good idea to add it back in the day, it's too late to reverse that decision. It happened. The past can't be changed. So should the series run away from its past, or embrace its past and make the most of what it has?
I had a point I was trying to make, but I forgot it halfway through. My brain is a mess.
As a Gaymer, I adore the poses that Yuji Uekawa did for Sonic, since they pretty much resemble Vogue poses from the early 90's. A very, VERY feminine approach to Sonic that may be one of the reasons Sonic have garnered such a queer fanbase.
Also, I do want voice-acting in the Sonic games, but maybe approach it differently. Its no secret that the approach have been going the Seinfeld/Reality Bites/Biodome route lately, with fourth wall breaks and half-hearted messages that breaks immersion and misses the point to the point it actually provides a worse one. All that for "teh memes".
So my suggestion is to look over the pond for inspiration. The new "T2:Trainspotting" movie and John Boyegas "Attack the Block" may be the way for Sonic. It's to the point and gets its work done. What do you think?
No one gives a fuck that your gay m8, zero shits.
The Sonic series' coolest moments had little to no dialogue, huh? What about Shadow vs Mephiles? "If the world chooses to be my enemy... I will fight like I always have!" And then he blasted through Mephiles' clones.
so many words so little said
"I'lL mAke YoU eAt ThOsE wOrDs!!!"
Sonic Utopia ...just that.
so tru
Impressive video essay. You managed to tackle this issue of Sonic's rocky video game evolution without resorting to bashing, blaming, or ranting. Proving your love for a character that still has the potential to be cool. Really enjoyed this and I have to say, I agree with a majority of the points you made (not all of course, but that is constructive discourse is all about). I look forward to your future videos!
basically another sonic fan whinning about the modern games ruining sonic, my fault for expecting something diffrent
Soniman001 And you are another butthurt fan that doesn't understand the video.
Soniman001
You didn't even watch the video, did you?
Soniman001 like for real ur a kid who is 9 and thinks sonic colors is the best game HAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAAH YOUR LIFE IS A LIE
basically another random commentor with a sonic profile name and picture. so your opinion is automatically rendered worthless
Boo hoo
This just comes with the suppression of traditional masculinity in our culture. Sonic used to be a man’s man, a cool man. Nowadays his character archetype has shifted from that of a cool man to a warm man. Just look at the trailer for the sonic movie. That version of sonic is as cute and cuddly as it gets. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s far from what I would consider cool. Cute and cuddly just doesn’t appeal to me as much as cool does. Sega probably made the decision to push sonic in this direction in order to appeal to the emerging market of post millennials. Just look at how the times are changing. Cringe humor has become popular. Cool has gone out of fashion. With that, the creators of sonic games have been forced to adapt Sonic’s character in order to entice prospective fans of the series. It makes sense. I totally get it. It’s just a shame that old fans like us are getting left in the dust. Sonic has gone from being an all ages series to a kids series. That’s all there is to it.
bull shit lol Sonic is still way cooler than Mario. .
Mad Society20294 agreed
Mad Society20294 Mario doesn't try to be cool, he never has. Sonic still tries to be cool and edgy were Mario just has fun
Mad Society20294 oh also I'm talking about the characters, not the games. I don't think anyone can argue modern sonic games are better than modern Mario games
SoakingSamuel mario is kinda one dimensional, obly saving peach and nothing else
Tidal Yacht well I didn't think unleashed was bad I love both day and nighttime stages so I think there is only a few bad games after sonic 06 and sonic is mainly a rival to Mario and I still think sonic is still cool except for his voice like why they changed his voice from unleashed?
My god, what you said regarding sonic being cool through expression rather than dialogue is exactly what I've been thinking. I think the best example of sonic being cool through expression was the opening and ending scenes in sonic cd and the release date trailer for sonic mania. Thanks for this video.
remember that epic opening cutscene in unleashed i don't remember seeing a single cutscene in the 2010 sonic games that show the slightest bit of excitment and action packed as that opening cutscene
A very concise and well said point. I never would have considered this if I hadn't seen this video, but this makes a lot of sense. "Show, don't tell" is perhaps the most important rule of any visual media.
I actually think a lot of my favorite scenes are from SA2. It gave the full range of emotions from the character I wanted. I don't think the decline started with Heroes though, I love both OPening and Ednding Team Sonic's FMV scenes and the Vs Team Dark Scene "Talk about being Stubborn and Full of SUprisies!" and "Hey Thats My Line!" the whole Sonic/Shadow exchange is perfect to me. Its even better since the Japanese version refers to a line that Shadow makes before his fight with Sonic during the end of the Hero/Dark stories in SA2 though they didn't keep this line in either english scripts unfortunately. The little bits of dialogue during the stages in Heroes I liked was mainly Sonic being captured and sounding really annoyed about it.
I dont think he need to not talk they just need to balance it out better, I see zero problem with the amount of dialouge in the OVA but they balance it out with action and expressions so the script isn't doing all the work.
Sonic's not too different from characters like Dante and Bayonetta, their action does more of the talking but they can still have spoke dialog, even lengthy cutscenes and it doesn't harm their appeal because they're written and animated consistently.
People criticize Sonic for "not being cool enough", but then criticize Shadow for being too "cool" , "edgy" ect. People cannot be pleased
Shadow isn't cool. He's just a shitty fanfic character with a forced edgy backstory that is completely out of place in a Sonic game (which is why it being edgy is a problem). Sonic is cool because he's all about action and adventure. He doesn't have time to "EXPWESS HIS FEEWINGZ" or to have lame ass romantic relationships. He's just an impatient, cool hedgehog with an attitude that is constantly seeking new thrills and adventures for his own entertainment and is willing to single-handedly save the world. He's perfect for the type of simple sidescrolling games he was made for, being a mix of an action hero and a cute appealing mascot.
If Sonic was still as cool as i think your nostalgia is letting you believe he wouldn't be the joke of the internet. Now don't get me wrong i love Sonic just as much as the next person but all stupid dialogue, unnecessary trends Sega likes to chase and overall how much the "coolness" of Sonic has been tainted i believe there is no hope for Sonic to ever return to how he once was. And yes i agree Vegeta the Hedgehog aka Shadow is completely out of place but atleast Shadow's character has been consistant. Not going from a quick and sharp-witted hero to a high school douche bag
I was going to mention I was talking about the old Sonic but I guess I forgot to add that in my comment. In the new games he's a joke.
Attitude
cocky
heroic
That's how I define Sonic
Kaze:**Talks about design**
Also Kaze:**Zooms in on green eye**
to reference the comics,
"cooler thatn the other side of your pillow"
I remember the days when i was a kid and played sonic cd on my gamecube (sonic gems collection) i used to just watch the opening cutscene over and over because the animation and the soundtrack were so cool.
'I found you faker'
"Faker? I think you're the fake hedgehog around here. You're comparing yourself to me? Ha! You're not even-"
'I'll make you eat those words!'
because sonic has the word boom in his name now
I think that sonic’s “cool factor” faded after ShadowTH, and with the inception of 06 came the more matured sonic that peaked and ended with Black Knight. During that time, sonic’s “cool factor” was still there, but no where near as apparent as the classic and Dreamcast/adventure era’s. Then colours and beyond tried to somewhat recapture the “cool factor” of old, but also tried too hard to make it kid friendly, resulting in a messy amalgamation of failed themes.
I find myself in agreement with you for the most part. Personally, I think if Sonic's script and Smith's delivery was ironed out, cutscenes would work out much better for him. That alone would make things a lot better.
However, once that's fixed, I propose going a tad further, and cutting out cutscenes almost entirely, save for transitory needs.
Here's how a "show, don't tell" Sonic game works in my mind's eye: After any intro cutscenes that may or may not happen, the first level of the game opens up with Sonic making a brief comment about wherever he's running through. For the rest of the level, he will make the occasional comment, depending on where he is in the level. These need to be isolated much more than how Heroes and '06 did it. He doesn't need to even say much - a simple "Whoa!" whenever a larger-than-usual enemy appears, or Jason Griffith's "Woooooo!" at more thrilling moments, such as skydiving, boosting, or riding a rocket.
Between acts and zones, while the results screen quietly does its thing, Sonic runs or impatiently waits on loop while the next act or zone loads and the previous one unloads. The supporting cast can briefly talk to Sonic or amongst each other during this time, or even appear in-game to hinder or assist him in the next act (from a story perspective, not so much a gameplay perspective). If a breather is needed from a narrative perspective, then, and only then, would cutscene play in the story.
It's a rough first draft, but I think I'm in the ballpark of what would be optimal.