Dyno Day #2 Did NOT Go As Expected (Exhintake Cam, Cam Gears, Squaretop) [Project 2SJ Ep12]
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
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99% of footage was shot by my good friend Mitchel, he has an NC channel that can be found here:
/ mitchinpossible
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www.thecarpassionchannel.com/...
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![WELP I Think I Found The Problem With The NB Miata... [Project 2SJ Ep13]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bZXVOvWU6eU/mqdefault.jpg)
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![Dyno Testing 8 Of The Most Popular Mods For Miatas! [Project 2SJ Ep8]](/img/n.gif)
Not enough people appreciate your work Greg. The amount of time you spend testing all of these things to give to the Miata community is insane. You truly are the Miata Dad.
Fr I love watching these videos I learn so much! I got my Miata running cause if these videos 😆
Craip is the best Miata Dad we could ever wish for...
@@dumbestoyster Crepe? Is that a new one? 😂
I literally think this evey time I watch a video like I'm so mad he isn't famous lol
In deed. For all around the world
Since you changed cams a good idea is to check your valve lash again..maybe a valve is staying open and robbing you compression..maybe better start with a compression test..?
+1 I was just going to post this same comment.
+2 this
@@nzpork1 shit i posted before i saw your comment. I agree, check clearances/lash
classic Greg ignoring the obvious cause of the issue. How many times did you change your drive shaft chasing that vibration before you finally listened to reason and replaced the Diff?
The problem is obviously the New Cam and Cam Gears.
@@erasmus_locke lol wrong
throw your old cam and cam gear back on and see what happens.
This!!!
I have no idea why didnt he do that already
Is he using an exhaust cam as an intake cam??
@@jamesbadham3872 Yes.
Yeah, this might be the issue.
The amount of work that went into this video is insane! Well done, no matter what the result was. Good for you for not letting the setbacks stop you from posting this video!
Tried to make the best out of it, haha
@@TheCarPassionChannel have you thought about the different intakes providing high end HP but at the sacrifice of midrange torque? There's a lot of internet forum hearsay about the construction of the stock intake and it's chambers resonating to provide better torque right around where it's down on your dyno results. Long shot but worth a try?
classic Greg ignoring the obvious cause of the issue. How many times did you change your drive shaft chasing that vibration before you finally listened to reason and replaced the Diff?
The problem is obviously the New Cam and Cam Gears.
@@TheCarPassionChannel check your electrical system
Nobody more passionate, persistent, and knowledgable about miatas than you Greg. I'm sure you'll find that power gremlin!
classic Greg ignoring the obvious cause of the issue. How many times did you change your drive shaft chasing that vibration before you finally listened to reason and replaced the Diff?
The problem is obviously the New Cam and Cam Gears.
Re-check Valve lash, Miata dad!
Re-check Valve lash, Miata dad!
Re-check Valve lash, Miata dad!
Re-check Valve lash, Miata dad!
Re-check Valve lash, Miata dad!
Love the video, by the way. That dyno day must have been an incredible amount of work! Props for that!!
Same thing with his last dyno day too lol the last one he was changing out hot headers and what not on the dyno lol to do comparisons
Was your right leg 15% more swole the first day?
Damn Greg, that was some hard work. You should get in touch with Jafromobile - Not a Miata guy, but he's super meticulous about tracking down gremlins. Would be amazing to see the two best hobbyists on YT figure it out! Whatever you do, I wish you the best of luck. Im looking to do all of the bolt-ons on my stock NB at some point, so I really hope you can come up with something good :)
Gotta get on board with the Jafro.
If you haven't watched someone dump thousands into a car that "can be totaled if a power steering hose needs replacement", then you haven't lived. Like, story of my life, dude.
@@joshuacraven6206 Donuts Moneypit has nothing on Jafro HAHA! How about some... GLYPTOL COATED VALVE COVERS.
@@hellfireclub86 I could watch that man paint the inside of an engine all day... he truly is my hero!
classic Greg ignoring the obvious cause of the issue. How many times did you change your drive shaft chasing that vibration before you finally listened to reason and replaced the Diff?
The problem is obviously the New Cam and Cam Gears.
+1 for a Jafro collaboration!
Thanks again Cregg, we really don’t deserve this level of detail
An increase in peak power at the top is is usually due to more air being flowed into the cylinders and the opposite for bottom end, aka less air mid to low. Intake lobes and Exhaust lobes are different for a reason. The continuous increase past 5200~ rpm would be that Exintake cam swap but only for past that rpm. When you call up a camshaft company like say Comp cams they always ask "what the engine is being used in" some one drag racing where the car only see's top power band rpm will use a different cam rather than some one racing autocross where the power band is more spread out through low-mid to high. I think the camshaft being a exhaust cam with massive duration compared to the intake cam at bottom end, the air is being vacuumed into the cylinder and reverberated or pushed back into the runners at 3.5k to 5.2k from old intake cam. Too much duration and not enough Airspeed velocity to support mid range. My best educated guess. There are more factors but i do not know I am not there. Great video and tuning is a pain, we swap cams on our race cars at least 7 times and dyno them with camshaft and ignition timing changes to find the best combination.
It's a good theory but the fact is the ex intake cam swap is still considered a very mild cam compared to anything in the aftermarket. Like the exintake cam swap isn't going to be anywhere near as aggressive as the most LEAST aggressive cam you could find sold as aftermarket. It still is bearly a difference than the previous cam. It's an upgrade don't get me wrong. But we're talking about a cam profile that's perfectly suitable for his build.
@@Nasonix2 True, but dyno graphs usually dont lie and i mean the difference in mid range for how little power the 1.8 already makes is still something that you can feel from 10ish horsepower on a pull. I am no ways saying buy aftermarket when you can get a exhaust cam cheaply, but there are definitely cam profile differences compared to a mild aftermarket that would have a solid improvement almost full band than what he is experiencing right now with only gains after 5.2k rpm plus room to adjust cam timing and ignition to pick up more. His peak would not be as high but overall would be better. This cam just requires more air mid range. A good porting to clean flash and maybe with an aftermarket intake manifold would definitely bring the exhaust intake cams full potential. But i have not built a 1.8 yet nor played with the head and ports or flowed one but based on the graphs and his problem that last dyno session to this one he only changed the camshaft.
@@Nasonix2 exactly. Although I think it makes the point... Better off to get a regrind to specs you know will work with a bit more lift than stock. If you're going to spend the time and effort to install and fine tune, be nice to have the result
I would put stock cams/gears back in and see if you gain power
Try the stock intake cam again. It might just be that the added lift from the new cam messes up your exhaust scavenging
From a troubleshooting standpoint I think it makes sense to put the stock cams back along with stock cam gears and run it again. Make it as close to your original setup as you can and then go from there.
I think that exhaust cam and gear is where all your problems are coming from, graeg
I'ma laugh if he discovered factual proof the ex-intake cam being power robbery and nobody else knows. Like that'd be great... But I don't think it's the case.
I think either two things could be wrong.
1) he didn't try tuning the map differently when it first got back on the dyno to make the same power as before
Or 2) the valve lash clearences are opened up since he put the new cam in for some reason. Which would be strange! But worth checking. Should've compression tested when the spark plugs were out.
Thanks for the Science dad! This makes us feel a bit more accomplished for our 150whp on a Land & Sea dyno (reads low like a mustang dyno).
Yay yay
I admire how much hard work you are doing without ever giving up. It seems that nothing goes without bunch of complications, when I remeber those problems with transmission and drive train you had on your NA .
It is incredible how much patience you have.
Test just the Ex-intake cam on a stock engine.
There are enough variables that the slight change in lift may be difficult to tune for.
I'm just gonna hit like, then watch the video!
How was the ambient air temperature and humidity? I wonder if it was a bit cooler with less humidity. Great video anyway!
There's a good chance it was corrected for standard temperatures and pressures. Any decent dyno will correct for STP.
@@xampx2k7 I agree, it’s also a potential mistake someone can make though if they set it up incorrectly though
Was the DA very different or was the dyno recalibrated?
Gonna sound kinda rookie, but what do you mean by DA
Density altitude
@@hunterross9615 you use it to correct power numbers for atmospheric pressure changes due to elevation. Ideally you correct it to the SAE standard and not to fudge bigger peak numbers for your forum signature
@@ElPants21 you shouldn’t correct at all to an SAE standard day (especially with forced induction) if you aren’t just trying to stroke your ego lol, especially with diesel
As a 44 year old dad of a miata ( my 16 year old sons ) I've watched all your videos and can't wait to watch what's next. Some of the best content on the ol tube. Thanks for your nolage, makes me look like a hero to my boy as I'm trying to turn him in to a little bit more of a gear head than computer need ( that's OK also but I'm sure you get i) thanks again....KMFNB
Get him into Tuner Studio or whatever software your preferred aftermarket ECU uses. You can be a computer nerd and gear head. Good on you for getting him started, Miatas are a great learner vehicle for tuning and wrenching.
@@foamdataservices Thanks for the good wishes, the wife and I are blessed.
Did you try adding stickers?
The day we have all been waiting for boys!! ✊🏽📈
I sense the disappointment. Lets first say THANKS! Tons of real work.....but you shared real world data and issues. Possibly saving some of us the same problems. THANKS for that too!
My moto when working on my Miata is "what did Greg do". I'll wait while you search and figure out where things went awry. Appreciate the effort and your sharing of the disappointment. It's the real deal with no drama or BS. That is why keep coming back.
Thank you so much for putting in the work for all of us!
Ayyy! Love the dyno videos!
Your channel has the best content on UA-cam
That's just awesome Greg! I admire your dedication and the effort you put into this.
Wow I’m gonna have to watch this multiple times to absorb all this glorious information and data, thank you so much for putting in all the effort with this testing.
Really enjoyed the video! Informative but not boring at all!
You're the greatest, Greg. Getting so inspired for my NB.
Greg, this series on the dyno rips so hard! Love to see the results, good or bad! Great info, man. All very enlightening. Cheers!
Once again, helping us MX5 owners out. Love all the content, keep it up man!!
Always look at the last thing you changed before the problem started.... I’d swap the stock intake cam and gears back in. Are you positive you didn’t accidentally slip the timing belt a tooth on the crank when you swapped the gears in? My ‘99 made 140whp/120tq on that same dyno without variable cam gears, with an MSM intake cam, square top, RB header and J-Bend intake like you showed. Toby put on his velocity stack filter and I put down 143. Good luck finding the issue Greg, and great video as always!
This is the kind of dedication and attention to detail that helps us out so much! I built my miata based off of the broke & boosted project a few years ago
Thanks for the Metal Gear Solid alert sound at 10:48. 🤜👍👍
Great info none the less
Great info as always
On that struggle bus all day. My heart goes out to you. This is great exposure that not every dyno day is just 20 second clips of power pulls.
You are going gods work I LOVE these videos
omg the price is right sound with the dyno sheet had me dying. I cried.
Nice work Greg, keep at it I know you will find the answer!
great video greg
very good and informative videos !!!! keep it up
Thanks for all your hard work man. We really appreciate it. You have become a true Miata whisperer. I’d be curious to see what would happen if you worked for FM and had more resources to just do R&D all the time.
Dude... Feel for you my friend.. Nothing more frustrating than putting in loads of work for little gain.. ♥️ Chin up 🤗
You're still a winner Greg. Thanks for the video. Hi Toby
I know this video is old but love these tuning videos trying to squeeze the most power out of the car. Shows real results for tuning ideas, what intake designs are best / exhaust , etc.
These vids are just epic
Greg this work is so relevant to my current challenge, your philosophy of creating a you tube diary of Mx5 solution based development is so valuable to our community THANK YOU and yes its 12 months later and people will use this data for years to come. Miata Legend
I think this a very honest understanding of engine tuning. Sometimes it works perfectly, sometimes it doesn't, that's part of the game!
Miata Dad uploads always make my day.
Nice video as always. I like the NB series as it shows there are significant power gains with bolt ons. And they’re not that expensive yet.
Another great video!! I'm certain you'll find out the problem and make even more power. I love the idea of building a NA engine for these cars when you already have a turbo one, congratz for all the work.
Great video
Clicked like before watching. Do comment before thinking. Much Excite.
Love these dyno vids! Secretly I was hoping you’d introduce a “car passion intake kit” using the unicorn intake as a basis of design! Keep up the awesome content!
+1 for checking the DA between the 2 dyno days
Thanks!
Dude, thank you!!!
Love my short 90 intake. So much space on the exhaust side
Check compression, i would start there. I -havent watched any other videos of this car so idk what mods been done but check the ignition coil and fuel pump. Maybe check the vakum hose to the fpr, or do a general vakum leak search, with a smoke machine.
He'd know if it was a fuel problem because it would run rich/lean. He had a AFR gauge in the car and a datalogger program on the laptop.
It's possible it could be a intermittent misfire problem from a faulty coil pack. I'd say spark plugs but he did swap them.
I'm with you on the compression test
Honestly thank you so much for all your work and the very detailed video.
I feel like the only thing that I would've done is take my stock cam gears and try them again, just to make sure that whatever happened has nothing to do with the cam gears being different. Maybe try that next time, I mean what do you got to lose but "time" 😄🤷♂️ see what I did there.
I can't wait for you to get an NC cuz that's what I have and I would love similar info for my car.
Preg Geters back with the useful miata videos!
such a helpful series!
I really appreciate the lengths you've gone to in you effort to chase down the loss in power. What sort of weather data do you have. Humidity, air density, and ambient air temperature play a significant role in what numbers you'll end up with on a dyno. If there were big enough differences in the first 137hp run to the run you started with in this video, that could explain the difference. I worked as a tech for over 10 years, and just recently sold my NB (growing a family), so I'm pretty familiar with chasing problems. I would have recommended you start by eliminating any possible variables that could explain the loss in power before you started making changes on the car. That said, I'm still subscribed, love your attitude and content. Keep it up!
So glad you do this stuff so i dont need to waste my money for no hp gain xD thanks miata dad
Awesome video, bummed about the results. I was “pulling” for you. I would leave the adjustable cam gears on but go back to stock intake cam. Tune the gears then dyno and see where you at.
Man youtube didnt even notify me this video came out!
I'm just now finding it.
Like a lot of these other people, I’d question the exhintake mod. If you can, try putting the old cam back in and see if you can get that power back. Either way, love to see you doing this. Respect for how much work you’ll put in for a couple of horsepower. Can’t wait for the go fast juice!
first of stellar work on that dyno man, here's an idea from the laws of thermodynamics. If energy is leaking out of that motor it is being converted into either work or heat and since nothing was working... I say look at it with a thermal cam check if something is getting hot. If not, it's prop a tuning thing main suspect that exintanke and cam gear.
As always awesome, I would definitely try putting the stock Intake cam on to see the results, also would be interesting to see how the skunk2 intake manifold performs with and without its throttle body
The experience your gaining is far more valuable than all the heerspeers. You going to be THE go to guy for miatas.
lovvvin these videos! Swap back to stock cam and gears, confirm it makes more power, borrow the skunk 2 intake manifold from the other miata and TB, see if that gains some power, THEN bring out those chop sticks with adjustable cam gears and valvetrain upgrade, then spinner up to 8k. If the money and time is there, a port/polish head with bigger valves would be fun to test.
You need and deserve more likes and views for legit car geeks ! :)
I would start with checking the compression. If that's fine then check the valve lash. Of that is okay as well then take the AC belt of and try to spin the compressor and see if it rotates freely. The last thimg that comes to mind would be to check if the timming belt didn't slipped or skipped a tooth on the crank when you were doing the exhintake swap. That's all I can think of as a mechanic. Keep up the good work bro, love your content. Cheers
were you logging your AFR's? all that extra air you're putting in with these mods needs more fuel, and more fuel you may need to change your ignition timing. I would honestly do a one over on the fuel map then the ignition map
My 1.6 did that too when I had it baselined....gained hp and tq with each pull....I figured if I kept doing pulls, it would eventually break 200whp stock lol
Nuts!
You should check your woodruff key on the crank nose! If it's starting to mess up! The pulley and trigger wheel will start to wobble causing some ignition problems! Loss of power through the power band!
Can't wait until you dyno the exhintake cam. I have a festiva with a bp swap on megasquirt and extra cam. But really hesitant to swap the cam.
As a LONG time NB owner I would get a new high quality CAS. Most enthusiast NB owners carry one and a 10mm around with them for when they die, and they will. A failing CAS can lead to weird running issues. Also check both the gap of the crank sensor as well as the shape of the nibs on the timing wheel. I've seen some timing wheels with a bent or slightly smaller nib cause almost imperceptible misses especially when the crack sensor gap is too large.
But nice work. I love watching you stuff. Whether I agree with you or not on some stuff your methodology always entertains.
I would start by checking valve lash and doing a compression test. If those are good you could swap the cams and see if you get your power back.
I would like to see the old cam and cam gears reinstalled to see if that is the issue. Seems like the only variable left untouched. I know the cam gears were adjusted their fully range but the lift is still different between the 2 cams so maybe the higher lift of the new cam is actually the culprit of the power loss for some reason?
AYEEE LETS GO
Your music is great
Paint your cover valve red and your good to 149 hp easy 😀 keep up the good work Dad
I think a video about the EPA and RPM act could be crucial right now
Almost felt like I was watching bay watch big intake manifolds and fully open throttle body’s ooosh 😂😁😂😂
I think you should take a Design of Experiments type approach. From the ASQ website "It allows for multiple input factors to be manipulated, determining their effect on a desired output (response). By manipulating multiple inputs at the same time, DOE can identify important interactions that may be missed when experimenting with one factor at a time. All possible combinations can be investigated (full factorial) or only a portion of the possible combinations (fractional factorial).". Assuming there is no mechanical error... there must be some unforeseen interaction going on with the cams.
really like these videos! im guessing that there might be a compression or a leak issue.. perhaps a valve is no longer seating well after the cam .. ruff guess really, im am sure you are 100% more qualified than me to figure this out..
Gotta love non interference motors 💪
double checking all the sensors, Crank sensor/Cam sensor and temp-sensors. Then perhaps verifying the positioning on the cams/cam gears.. also different combinations of timing / overlap will give different dynamic compression i guess ?. Did you check if the AFR's followed the power-creeping that you saw? (same with ignition faults)..
Fuel injection require a high pressure to ensure good fuel air mix. This is not the same as air fuel ratio problem as it is how well mixed it is. Clues to this happening are fuel pressure drop under full throttle, intake air direction changes i.e intakes and air filters, but not always. Little to no power gains but doesn't lay down hard on you because the fuel is there just burning slower. And timing advancement. Excessive advanced timing above 36-38 degrees means the flame progression is being hampered. Put a pressure gauge on your fuel rail and if it goes below max set during your run, you need more pump.
Waiting for the head shave.... will be it NB or Dad !
it would also be really cool to see e85, high compression and individual throttle bodies with trumpets
I would check the oil level and also change it just to be safe if the oil is low it might cause increase friction and kill some power
Hi, you make an amazing job ! Thank you !!
If i have seen corectly you lost hp when you advance intake cam.
Maybe the hole is incorrect for this combo camshaft/pulley ?! Maybe you have already too much advance..?
But to find where is the 6ps loss you should start with a compression test 😉
Hey Greg, love the videos, keep up the good work! Did you accidentally loaded the 1.6 file again? After this video you’ve convinced me to get a VVT for my 99 nb instead of using the stock BP4W. The Motorsport Electronics ecu’s got my attention for over 2 years, now i’m going for the ME442. Are there going to be more videos about all the features? Goodluck finding the lost power!
Yea this feels like the new intake cam not playing well with the old un modified intake cam. Since cams are usually a matched pair to optimize flow and turbulence in and out of the cylinders. Popping the stock intake cam back in with or without the adjustable gears might be the move.
If you return the cams, gears and everything to how it was tuned before this dyno day, see if you can repeat the power you once had. This would be the only way to determine as a matter of fact the new mods have been detrimental. Naturally aspirated tuning is an extremely complicated science and different combinations of things have to be in total harmony to be effective. As an example I live in the UK and a company called Blink Motorsport say early heads actually produce MORE power than the fabled later ones due to port velocity rather than flow. Anyone that wins an mx5 championship in the UK has an engine built by blink. That is how few people can genuinely master the art of maximizing naturally aspirated gains. Bolt on power’ can work to a certain degree but not many people push the limits of that theory as much as you are willing to, so I’m not hugely surprised you had a frustrating day. Big kudos as ever for pumping out the great content as ever, hope you get it spinning nicely soon.
In short: velocity > flow