I’m so happy you dropped Manny MUA name. The fact that he has a podcast where he so proudly holds accountable the Ace family and other youtubers but stays silent and promotes new James Charles merch. I was so disappointed because I liked his podcast but it seems hypocritical now.
i SWEAR i remember shane saying in his 2020 "apology" video that he "should've lost his career" for the things he's done and that he was ok with losing it. him coming back just proves he meant literally nothing in that apology and he doesn't truly see why people were mad in the first place
Lmao he’s just trying to manipulate us again 😭 “I should’ve lost everything !!1!!” aka “feel bad for me as I fake being upset and feeling guilty for what I did!!” He’s such a joke.
I've been thinking EXACTLY the same thing! I remember him saying he "deserved to lose his career and everything he has" or whatever and that he "understands" why everybody is/was so mad (he clearly doesn't!) He hasn't learned all that much! Maybe a little bit (how to be more sneaky maybe) but I don't believe he truly holds himself accountable.
He’s okay with “losing his career” if you define it as losing 100% of his fan base, because he knows that will never happen. He wants us to do the dirty work of holding him accountable for him. As long as he has a fan base he can pretend that what he did wasn’t bad enough to lose his career, when in reality it’s HIS responsibility to hold himself accountable by leaving the platform.
I can't stop thinking about Franchesca Ramsey and how hard she tried to hold Shane accountable back in the day and how horribly his stans harassed her. I think part of why some of the older stans still protect him is because they're protecting themselves from accountability. They don't want to face the fact that they were on the wrong side and were bullies. edit - I misspelt Franchesca's first name! Thank you for all the love!
EXACTLY. It reflects poorly on ourselves what type of people we are. Nobody wants to believe that they're a bad person. "So if _they're_ a bad person and I support them - what does that make me" kinda thing.
Crazy he called her a cunt for her talking his racist comedy vids years ago…. Like who does that and then tries to come off as if they’re completely innocent?? Narcissistic at best, man.
I think the biggest reason why his old fans still defend him is because they were probably kids when he was putting out inappropriate content and were therefore groomed in a way to thinking that the content was and is acceptable. I don’t think they’re being ignorant on purpose but because they don’t know any better, even if they’re adults now.
Shane is that friend who hypes you up before introducing you to the group before forming a weirdly intimate friendship, followed by abruptly triangulating you and the group against each other, thus making you the villain.
Honestly, I have given up on the idea of “cancelling” someone. The people who end up facing real consequences are few and far between and its usually not for racism or sexual assault because society does not care about those issues. People cancelled Brooke Houts but Jeffree, Shane and James still have careers. Now I just worry about who I personally support and if I can sleep at night supporting them. I’m no longer trying to convince anyone. I just notice who supports who, because birds of a feather flock together. I also notice how people are quicker to cancel black women for way less, i.e Jackie Aina. Its funny
Yes. Totally agree. Women in general get cancelled for such small things, but women POC get it so much worse because they are expected to be perfect for some reason. It’s so crazy to me.
@@luffyduffy7817 she did, but racism and sexual assault are just as bad as animal abuse and yet, who are the top creators? Full of racists and assaulters
An issue I have with some of his supporters is how they keep trying to say that all of Shane's past racist and bigoted humor were just jokes and he's moved on. He didn't just do a bad Wendy Williams impression in blackface, he deliberately mocked Black people's appearance and perpetuated harmful stereotypes for the sake of comedy. Ex-friends have come out and said Shane and his mother made racist statements at the time. MacDoesIt spoke to Shane about how he should include more POCs in his series and claimed Shane had a panic attack during the conversation and needed Ryland to calm him down. Also, there are many things Shane hasn't acknowledged. He never apologized to Willow Smith, addressed the allegations Tati made against him, the skits he did with the Fine Bros., or apologized for his outburst on Instagram where he dismissed Tati's s*xual assault (I'm not saying Tati is unproblematic but that was not a good day for Shane). He's still friends with several very problematic people that no true empath would ever actually associate with. His cancellation was never just based upon old jokes. As a former fan of him, I feel very disappointed in him.
I feel the same way! I’m so tired of hearing people say, “He’s apologized already, get over it!!”. Uh, no he hasn’t. I know it’s probably not possible for him to go back and go over every single racist/sexist/homophobic joke he ever made, (which like, I think that says something that he’s made so many of those jokes that it’s nearly impossible to get to them all), but there are some really huge things that people have been asking him to address for so long, and he just seems to plug his ears and go make some shitty ghost story videos. I started watching him when he was doing spooky stuff with Garrett/Andrew and the whole gang, and it’s insane seeing all of the disgusting stuff he used to do, (and stuff he still continues to do!)
@@gracek704 You actually bring up another good point there. The majority of the 23 million subscribers Shane had prior to his cancellation subscribed to him over the course of 2017-2019, according to SocialBlade. More than half of his audience was new and had little to no prior knowledge of his old content. I had some knowledge but didn't realize how bad the bigoted content was and thought he changed when he apologized for doing blackface in 2014. Of course, he negated that apology in his 2020 video where he said all of his past apology videos were made out of fear, not true remorse. Like a kid who says they're sorry only because they got caught, not because they actually feel guilty.
@@gracek704 Also I made another comment on this video where I stated I believe Shane's content was better when he had Garrett around as a collaborative partner. His videos took a dive in quality after Garrett left. An example of something I noticed post-Garrett was Shane's excessive use of B-roll footage that would clog up the flow of his videos.
@@marissaurias5116 Bree Essrig and Quadir Howard were two ex-friends that came out against Shane. Bree said Shane was a manipulative friend who talked shit about people behind their back. Quadir said Shane was genuinely racist.
Also the pedophiliac behavior with his teen fans and what he’s said on his podcast, calling Francesca Ramsey a cunt, and his behavior on the set of “Not Cool”…. Im not even bringing it up because he needs to apologize for it, its just more evidence in how narcissistic, human, and rude/cruel he can be and i don’t understand how his fans dont see nor realize that??? There’s so much evidence for the shit he’s done to people but for some reason people are brainwashed.
As a black queer person who has literally been that little boy that people bullied when I pointed out the emperor was naked my point of watching this was to see how you explained cancel culture and this time around i can say I completely agree but also as a black and queer person I'm not disappointed just numb and I am completely aware that people can make whole ass career off of making my exsisitence harder for a " joke " but I do appreciate hearing other people opinions on the matter regardless
Same fam. Everytime I see stuff from the 2000's and 2010's it's a fun little reminder of why I hated myself so much back then. Got a Facebook memory from 2013 the other day where someone said I "make a really pretty black woman" and that was wild to see. Not disappointed, not even a little surprised, definitely numb
i appreciate you saying something about Manny supporting James. I know you guys are friendly with each other and it can be hard to call out less than ideal behavior from someone you know and respect
the thing that bothers me re: "you just wanna cancel them to ruin their lives/careers!" is that... that doesnt happen anyway. not being able to post on this platform and make millions of dollars is not life ruining for these people. most of them have already made their millions, theyll be fine. leaving the platform is LITERALLY the least they could do.
Agree with everything you've said but a also add that to those saying we just want to ruin careers, so what if their careers are ruined? People shouldn't have careers based on racism, sexual assault, predatory behaviour, beastiality, sexism, animal abuse, misogyny, abelism, etc. What about the lives that Shane ruined? What about the pain he caused to marginalised groups? If all that happens to him is that his career is ruined and he never comes back to UA-cam, that's the least her deserves. There are so many other jobs other than being a UA-camr and being a public figure. Shane should go find one of the jobs where he doesn't get to spew his nonsense to millions of people.
I feel like Shane takes advantage of the letting the heat die down and figuratively come in like a shy little boy with his head down asking us if we’re still mad at him with this 🥺🥺🥺 usual sad look on his face. He knows what he’s doing.
"I hate the term 'cancel culture' because it has become meaningless and a way for influencers martyr themselves" YES! True on youtube, true everywhere else.
If it wasn’t for the last time Shane got “canceled” I would probably still be watching him. But because of people holding him accountable, I refuse to watch his videos or support him in any way
Actually OBSESSED with everything Nick DiRamio. Catching up on all of their old content was a painful adjustment. And Ada on Demand is an absolute gem.
@@pristiq946 Yeah, and in their coming out video, he said he isn't super strict with pronouns. I don't follow him on any other social media, so I don't know if they've updated that at all, but just because they're nonbinary doesn't mean he only uses gender neutral pronouns. Sorry, didn't wanna make it a big stand or whatever, just kind of annoys me when people don't actually *listen* to trans/nb people and police nonbinary identity as strictly neutral through things like enforcing use of they/them only. And I say that as a nonbinary person who does identify most with a neutral form of gender.
I don’t even want to “cancel” Shane, I want him to be unable to hurt more people. I want him to stop having access to minors, I want him to stop being in the public eye. He could even do social media work behind the scenes, he could be a manager for (adult) creators. I just want him to stop trying to make his horrendous actions go away.
So something you missed about The Emperor’s New Cloth is that the Emperor was told only “wise people” can see them, and he was too embarrassed to say he couldn’t, and so were all the folks in the town. I think that part of being what Shane did that was so awful is that it was saying the same thing about morality. If you don’t see my apology is really me and that I’ve grown YOU are the problem- You are not moral and You don’t let people grow
Honestly this video sums up how I feel about Trisha paytas. As someone in the lgbt community I’ve watched her come out as gay, as trans, as bisexual, as non binary, as a freaking chicken nugget etc and it completely just invalidates all of the struggles and hardships people like us go through. I feel like some straight people will see her and think the whole coming out concept is just one giant joke and something you do on a whim depending on what your sexuality or identity of the day may be. Oh but then suddenly Trisha is back on everyone’s good list because she decided to change directions from spitting on my community to suddenly calling out OTHER problematic youtubers like James Charles and then suddenly people loved her again because she became the queen of calling out problematic people to deflect from herself…seriously sometimes I feel like I’m in the matrix when it comes to Trisha and I’ve taken the red pill and I’ve woken up to all the bullshit, but everyone else around me has taken the blue pill and is looking at me like “what are you even talking about there’s nothing wrong”. it’s so frustrating at times, Trisha is someone I believe truly needs to be deplatformed because she has made a career of mocking entire groups of people and using them for clout and she’s STILL doing it.
I have never logged onto her site and am very supportive of The Trisha getting deplatformed. From what I have heard her views are way down and very criticized. It worries me that she has deleted her worst videos and will attract new viewers who do not know her history.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. She’s the kind of person that homophobes/transphobes are going to look at in order to validate their shitty opinions about our community.
Every time I see youtubers get cancelled and have a large portion of their fans defend them as if they did nothing wrong, it makes me think about the Ryan Haywood situation from last year, and how I wish more ‘cancellations’ were handled the way that was. Long story short, he was a member of Achievement Hunter, a gaming channel on youtube, and it came out last year that he had used his status to take advantage of multiple fans. It was disgusting and a lot more complex than I described here, but he was immediately fired, the other AH members publicly spoke their disgust, and he was never mentioned again. He had caused harm with his platform, and so he lost it. The majority of fans that used to love him now don’t even miss him. All this to say, I wish more people understood that sometimes people you watch online are just bad. And it sucks to find out, but that doesn’t mean you should just ignore the pain they’ve caused. Personally, I don’t understand how fans can defend these kinds of behaviors from creators, because I often feel disgusted that I ever liked those creators to begin with. With Shane, I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t even care about him anymore. I don’t expect him to ever really change, and I simply don’t have the time or energy in my life to spend on someone who’s done so much harm and won’t own up to it.
My guess is that part of his audience ia younger and that is why some keep supporting him, similar to James Charles some of his defenders are young fans. Hopefully with time they will learn the extent of their damage they did. But I agree with you
@@c_louie670 I feel like a good amount of Shane’s fans are adults. They’ve grown up watching him and don’t want to admit that their childhood hero is a scumbag.
Ugh the Ryan situation was so sad and disgusting. Especially once you found out some of the girls were minors and he flew them out just to do....things with them. Thankfully, AH cut ties with him immediately and even managed to get his personal twitch taken down when he tried to make a comeback. And so far, he's been quiet all year and hopefully it stays that way. I just wish other influencers got the same treatment.
I can’t express how much I love listening to Hannah whilst smoking a joint. Both soothing & thought-provoking. I feel like she’s organising my thoughts for me. Also living for Hannah & Nick being low-key allies, they’re my favourite creators by far rn.
Honestly I think cancel culture doesn't exist. It's an umbrella term to design different actual phenomenons depending on the situation (cyber harassment, respectability politics, ad hominem, and more) but grouping all that under a single term allows ~some people~ to claim harsh consequences that they don't actually face. (aka how "cancel culture" effect more leftist circles and marginalized groups, mostly because of respectability politics and purist thoughts, yet it's conservative and rich people who whine about it more)
Exactly. There comes a point where a word means so many things that it means nothing at all. There doesn’t even seem to be a stable way of conceptualizing “cancellation,” or a stable set of goals one could use to decide if it’s “worked” or not. As Hannah points out, social change has usually not come about by ruining people, but by moving on without them. They still produce art or ideology, but are looked on as a sad relic of an unkinder age. That doesn’t make it easier for those he’s affected to be OK in the short term, but the medium to long term should look different.
@@valerielevasseur8674 Best example I can think of is Onision, he will probably never leave the platform but everyone pretty much knows he's a preverted nut that we should just continue ignoring until he finally loses enough views and fans to go somewhere else
Honestly the thing that bothers me most about Shane is that it’s still just a joke to him. Like as a black woman, the shit that he said wasn’t a joke to me! Like it wasn’t even funny and to keep insinuating that they were jokes and still keep making jokes about the situation is what pisses me off. What is even worse is he is constantly trying to rewrite history and manipulated his audience which is what SmokeyGlow pointed out. Even when he was trying to “apologize” in the beginning he intentionally left out the details of what he was apologizing for because he knew that if he went into detail and reminded everyone about the awful things he did it was not gonna go well for him. That’s how I know he has not grown because he still trying to get around the things he did wrong. The things that Shane did are not things that he can just apologize once for he’s gonna have to apologize probably forever but that’s the price that you pay when you harm multiple groups of communities just for entertainment purposes.
I really appreciate that you highlighted how holding Shane accountable actually worked to some extent. Honestly I was beginning to feel pretty hopeless about the situation, and him receiving the consequences he deserves for his horrifying actions. But this discussion gave me a little hope, and a more positive lens of the situation. Thank you!! 💜
Same I was feeling like it doesn’t matter, but he can see his views aren’t what the used to be and it must hurt at least in the wallet and that is at least something
“If the offenses you did are directly tied to your career then that is the appropriate avenue to go down where you’re going to loose some of that.” Yes! So many people don’t understand this. His career was built on the struggles and realities of others, not just POC but minors as well. When people were calling him out at the height of Shane’s career they were not only attacked but, in some instances, Shane would call them names and blast them. These weren’t “just jokes” and these weren’t just “part of a different time.” These things have hurt and have continued to hurt people. I was heavily bullied for being mixed and slightly darker than the rest of the kids in elementary school. Are the kids who did so still like that as adults? No, but I still deal with the effects of those words and actions today. Some apologized, some were avoidant. Regardless, I still deal with that hurt.
1) If this was a "normal" job he'd be fired and not allowed to come back... 2) Let's not forget he actually did and acted out inappropriate things with minors (and animals). That stuff is disgusting and I feel like its being overlooked and played down.
i think a lot of people also overlook how he affected others such as children and animals. It’s not just about his character. It’s also how he has affected people and how he hasn’t really done much to try and fix that. You can’t just apologise everything away. Also his platform supported hate and created a place for people to express it back when youtube wasn’t even popular.
I’d love to see a Smokey Glow x Nick Diramio collab. Between Nick’s technical break down and Hannah’s social commentary, it would be such a comprehensive discussion. I’m sure some dumbass will release something soon that would be the perfect topic
I think it really shows how little Shane learned when he uses the very real Sand Creek Massacre for his ghost hunting video and runs around the park saying shit like "I hear the Indian drums!"
Usually I wait to comment until I've watched the entire video so as not to sound deranged, but I just have to say that I have been WAITING FOR YOUR TAKE ON THIS and am so glad you're commenting on it!! Thank you very much for all your research and hard work.
Anyone who's "forgotten" what's Shane's done that we are mad about def check out Ada On Demand; Nick Diramio; and Jarvis Johnson's videos that call him out, for the context.
@@larissabrglum3856 I knowww, unfortunately his video isn't up anymore cuz he doesn't want to give awful people like this more attention. Not sure if anyone saved it, tho I don't feel comfortable promoting people to go watch a re-upload if that's against what he wants! But that was such an excellent detailed breakdown, I wish he had kept that one up.
I’m doing a research paper for school based on the question, “what is UA-cam’s responsibility towards their own creator guidelines and monetization policies in the face of content creators who violate their policies?” And Shane Dawson is basically my number one case study to use, especially after getting his monetization revoked and then returned to him and being put on the trending tab after his return to the platform. Your videos have been a big source being used so thank you so much !!! Love the channel and the videos !!
If you haven't watched Ann Reardon's videos (How to Cook That) she also talks about YT's responsibility to create and enforce guidelines on misleading "hack" videos!
@@collyflower6623 I’ll definitely check it out!! And if anyone has more recommendations on channels and videos to check out for my paper that would be very very helpful !!! 💓
it made me so happy to hear you reference jon stewart's podcast, he is such a massive hero of mine and i've been feeling sad that people in their 20s and younger missed out on what a beacon of sanity he was throughout the 2000s and 2010s with his tireless crusade against bullshit in all its forms. it was so nice to hear him mentioned again :) a relevant quote that i think sums up a lot of what hannah talks about here: "the best defense against bullshit is constant vigilance"
He will never make it past his youtube bubble- no reputable company would ever work with him on a film. I will never ever ever ever forget what he did. The video of him doing horrific things to the poster of a minor is burned into my brain. Nope, I'll never forgive him.
This is the only video I’ve seen so far that articulately lays out in words exactly how I feel about this situation. It’s like everyone else only got surface level, but you went deeper and really explained why things are the way that they are. So happy to have you back ❤️
I actually think how he addresses the issues in the first episode was very revealing. Every 10 seconds he would do his ADHD humor to avoid addressing the point and making something sincere and then when he finally did address it he did a ‘both sides’ and tried to justify his work because he has such a big ego he can’t just admit what he did was trash.
And the constant comments about how badly it affected him all.. like he didn’t do something to cause the reaction from the world. Like constant comments about suicidal thoughts etc
Hey hey don’t bring ADHD into this we don’t claim his a$$ we pass him to the racist pedophiles and zoophiles sociopaths psychopaths and narcissist. It’s no returns no refunds, final sale
I appreciate that even though you are friends with Manny you are speaking publicly about him supporting James. It just doesn’t make any sense. And then the whole situation where he held Harry accountable for saying something (granted it was bad) about James? But can’t hold James accountable himself.... uhg
I wish we would stop talking about influencers’ “scandals” in terms of “offending” people and start calling it what it is, harming people and promoting harmful ideas and behaviors. People aren’t “taking offense” to Shane’s content, they’re upset because people have actually been harmed by it. It’s not just about people’s feelings, it’s also about how he influenced kids think racism, homophobia, transphobia, pedophilia, etc were okay and funny which actually caused real harm to the people who were the butt of the joke. Which makes it extra not okay when his apologies are basically just “I’m sorry to anyone I offended.” Like don’t apologize because you think people are offended, apologize for doing the harmful things you did. Like his content didn’t just exist in a vacuum on the internet that can be deleted and forgotten about because he said “sorry you feel that way” and it still doesn’t seem like he understands that.
I appreciate you bringing up Manny, because I know you’re at least friendly with him, because you’re out here following your own criticism. This is what I subbed for and what I click fast for every time you upload. It’s not easy to call out friends like that, and it sucks, but you can’t set the precedent that we’re allowing that behavior. Keep it up bestie ❤️
You've made some magnificent videos, very well researched, very well spoken. this could be your best work Hannah. I can really hear the passion in your voice and it comes from a place of true genuine care. Keep on making more "my thoughts" videos, you are a very much needed voice.
you holding manny accountable shows that you can be friends with someone while still staying objective and unbiased. Your setting a great example Hannah!
just knowing everything he did whether it was 12 years ago or 2, I couldn’t even imagine sitting in front of a screen and giving this man the time of day. I did watch a review of the 3 parts however, and I just found myself so angry at how he hasn’t changed at all. Even just from a content perspective, I think if he did actually change after “being canceled’ his content should’ve changed too. It had the same feel of something he’d post in 2018, stretching the whole premise over like 3 hours of content, and while it was portrayed as a ghost hunting video, also included a new house tour, a no-assed “apology”/explaination, AND his fiancé’s family just overflowing with support as if nothing has happened felt so wrong to me and shows how little he cares.
I haven't finished watching this video yet but what really pissed me off about Shane's return was that he kept talking about the cancellation as if he was a victim and bringing up suicide for sympathy. While being suicidal is awful, he's not alone in experiencing it. It's just like "oh wow is me, I'm facing the consequences of my actions and feel sad that people are trying to hold me accountable. I'm such a victim" and just not change anything at all. I think that if he uploaded a video on his channel that laid out everything he did and maybe apologize but then deleted his channel and create a new one to start from the beginning again. His platform is built on rotten foundations so starting again shows that he wants to be better while acknowledging his harm.
UA-cam does not care about what Shane did. They got pressured to demonetize him even though he was one of the creators bringing in the most money. The moment he comes back they see this as an economic gain it's sick
Theres a really good tumblr post that roughly says, "when someone puts sh*t on the potluck table, we don't all stand around debating whether or not it should be on the table. Its sh*t"
That reminds me of an old saying I’ve heard, which feels like it’s relevant given the situation. A bar tender once told me “if you let one just sk*nh**d into your bar, you will find yourself running a n**I bar before you know it. You are the company you keep and one rotten apple spoils the bunch. Shane and his friends are trash bags. They will never change.
I also think that him saying he's changed and then immediately "scary Indian gravesite" ghost hunting says a lot about him. Like, he's straight up monetizing genocide...
i think one example of friends holding each other accountable is in the recent valkyrae business venture in the twitch community. her friends came forward to condemn her action (promoting scam products to her fans), but stood by and vouched for her personality, while also maintaining that her action was wrong.
Hey hun just so you know you're really appreciated on this platform and in general. Love the channel The pallet The jokes The sincerity It's always positive here ❤️
I’d love to know your opinion on Tati! I used to be such a big fan, watched every single video. Once the drama began my heart sank and I couldn’t watch her videos anymore. Now that she is making her come back i can’t help but feel kind of bad for her.
His pattern of victimizing himself in terms of not getting sponsors will return because companies will be reluctant to collaborate with him again. Now after learning about the first 5-7 years of his career, it makes sense that he had a hard time getting sponsorships.
the statement that people shouldn't be "cancelled" if the material that warranted the cancellation happened years ago is so fucking stupid. if they haven't shown genuine change since then is THE reason they're getting cancelled. I'm the instance of JC is that he never showed change and if happened multiple times. the same goes for Tana , Gabbie, Trisha and Shane. I'm so glad that you aren't ashamed to call out Manny , i think you'd be a great journalist/publicist❤️
I'm a TA in history and one of the things I teach my students seems relevant here. History is not neutral or unbiased. period. It is not our jobs to attempt to teach anything "neutrally" because that in itself is a disservice. There are a lot of things that were seen as facts in the past (literally anything on gender and race) that were never true but treated as truth and fact. AND on top of that who we include in our histories is not neutral, neither are the values we bring as historians (or in this case you). Pretending our values don't exist or attempt to disassociate from them is also a disservice. Quite frankly history, or your role on youtube benefits from your perspective and the values you, Hannah, hold. Just thought I'd throw this out there.
Your point is valid but if I had a friend who consistently talked to minors I’m telling them about themselves ask them to get help and if not cutting them off I think the influencers that still support these problematic influencers KNOW that they will still have die hard fans and are willing to support due to being linked to their die hard fans. it’s so sick and twisted. working in social media is not for the weak and you literally to have no morals to prosper so sad
23:28 on that note, i’m so glad eddy burback posted about how disappointed and horrified he was to find out about how gus johnson was treating his (now ex) girlfriend abelina sabrina. they had been best friends for a while, but eddy still called him out and stood by sabrina. i was so impressed by that. eddy’s a good dude and for me this is proof.
I agree with you that holding people accountable with “cancel” culture is effective. I grew up watching Shane and it wasn’t until I watched D’Angelo Wallace’s video that I really saw how much he refuses to address and apologize for. I genuinely feel like there’s a level of grooming that goes on in the Shane Dawson community that isn’t really talked about. I was 14 when I started watching him. Now I’m 25 and I just can’t let him profit off of me knowing the things he has done to to children, animals, and people of my skin color. And it’s not easy. Every few months I have to rewatch D’Angelo’s video to remind myself that he’s a bad person because I genuinely do start to miss him and his content. Unless his channel drops a 10 part documentary series about him getting some serious therapy, I’m not interested in what he has to say.
I think cancel culture doesn’t really work because we all like to think of ourselves as these high minded individuals who hold people accountable for their wrongs, but that’s not really what we want… we want to watch someone rich and famous get butchered and roasted. I remember watching Shane Dawson’s apology and then watching a bunch of videos on it from people, who hated it and got mad at it and picked it apart. That’s the thing with all the apology videos you can apologize until you are blue in the face and no one cares, because that’s not what people are here for and pretending anything else is just disingenuous. I don’t really care about Shane Dawson in particular but he’a an interesting test case. No one ever even entertained the idea of thinking any apology canceled people make it good, everyone is there to tear it apart regardless of what it actually says, and we can all pretend we are better than that and we “care about this issues.” But in terms of internet canceling moral outrage is dead. It’s a public square hanging and we are all there to watch, and commentary channels are there to read the charges and get performatively angry about it. We don’t want justice we want a show. If you want justice you take concrete action to improve conditions around an issue and that’s hard. I sort of see this the same way as the people who post about social issues on Instagram and think they have “done an activism” like have you actually done something or is it just for show?
Can we also call out Emma Chamberlain for still supporting James Charles? She’s been sneaky about it - they don’t necessarily comment on each other’s posts (that I’ve seen anyways), but she still follows him on Instagram. She’s gotten absolutely no backlash for this and it’s beyond frustrating.
Once again..I was lamenting to the UA-cam Gods about the lack of anything remotely interesting for me to consume while doing housework! Apparently they have your phone number and gave you a jingle! Thank you for another great video. So well thought out! ❤️ (This is the SECOND time this week you’ve came through)
when you were talking about the “attacking the person who called out someone you like because it’s easier than realizing they’re a bad person” i really found that to be true. a while ago, i used to be a fan of gabbie hanna (thank god that’s over) and when everyone started calling her out, i would go to those videos and call the creators names. like really bad names. because how could this person who i love and idolize so much ever be a bad person? but eventually i did see through her bs, and now i can see that she really is a bad person. anyway, i just wanted to tell you how great that analogy is. i love you!
“I’ve changed” makes a silly ghost video that takes place on the grave of hundreds of murdered First Nations, uses indigenous slurs, lightly makes comments and shitty typed messages of “we are here with respect tho”. All while the graves of thousands of First Nations children are being dug up in the US & Canada. Everyone: he’s changed :))))
I just think it's hilarious he thinks he's going to be a horror film maker.... anyone can find creepy soundbites. The camera work and editing has always been a mess. So embarrassing that I got sucked into his videos through scrolling random conspiracy videos..
the thing ab the soundbites, exactly! i don’t like this group of people anymore, but i literally remember hearing some of the “horror” sound effects in the slimecircle video about rolling a 100-sided dice while playing minecraft
I really appreciate you mentioning Manny MUA here, I know that was probably difficult. I obviously don’t know him as well as you but I do like him from afar and I was really disappointed that he was actively promoting James Charles.
This video is excellent, however, my brain got hung up on the idea of a "here's the thing" mug and needed to restart watching because I took a minor sketching break to figure out how that would look 😅 regardless, I love hearing your thoughts on topics like this! You're always so well spoken and insightful
Ok so I haven't watched the full video yet so I might be swayed but I have pretty much never seen a cancellation truly stick. There's definitely been some cases where people were "cancelled" for a significant period of time, but even then they weasel their way back in once some other scandal occurs. At this point cancel culture just pisses me off cause it's basically a bunch of people yelling at a wall. Update: I watched the video and while I think it's nice to say "calling people out sets a precedent" I think it's not adequate. Are people like Shane, James, and Jeffree getting less views? Yeah sure. Are they also probably still getting tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars off of their UA-cam career? Also yes. Saying someone makes $500,000 a year instead of $1,000,000 is not enough for me because they shouldn't be able to continue at all. Horrible people will see that and think "I can still get x amount of views even if I do this horrible shit" not "damn I shouldn't do horrible shit because people will call me out and not support me"
I appreciate the way you articulate this and the thought you’ve put into it but truly don’t care about him returning to UA-cam. At the end of the day, all we can do is hold him accountable by not consuming his content, it’s a sad truth that ‘cancelling’ creators that make youtube as much money as Shane does achieves absolutely nothing.
"Canceling" influencers would work if people went after their sponsors and platforms that continue to allow them to remain and continue making content. That is where the problem really lies. I think that a great majority of people are fine with not doing so because they get something out of the drama or simply because they are as horrible as them. Being an influencer is a huge priviledge not a right if peole really want to hold them accountable they have to understand that the consequences arent pretty.
What annoys me the most are people saying "everyone makes mistakes" like no. Making a mistake is saying a bad word in front of a kid not trying to grope them like ?? Racism isn't a mistake that I've seen people around me make. He knew what he was doing and I am sick of people letting it go like it's nothing. It contributes to the fact that racism is okay and that we shouldn't make such a big deal of past racism.
Shane comes back 1. Doesn't own up to or really apologize for anything 2. Exploits a Native Americans burial ground for the sake of sh**tty quality content ( and it was spectacularly sh**ty quality ) 3. Will continue to go on ignoring the criticism aimed at him while making sub-par videos 👌 whats new?
I think if Shane was going to apologize he waited way too long and should have dropped that months before his actual return to making content. I don’t think people will continue watching him.. the “spooky” content to me is a bore and played up too much. Shane’s quirky jokes and personality that used to make it a worthwhile regardless of the context, now feels like a drawn out act for the camera when it used to feel genuine and relatable. The fact that in almost two years he hasn’t stopped being self deprecating, specifically about his weight and size every 10 minutes, tells me he’s still in the same childish head space that got him cancelled in the first place and he wants sympathy points..
Thank you for the Ada on Demand shout out!!! She deserves it so much!!!! Her video about the old show about making the next big white rapper is probably my fav she’s made.
Remember back when Logan Paul was the worst person in the world? Shortly after he's boxing against KSI, and people totally bought his ruse. He was drowning all the controversy in the next hype. Now some youtube channels are discussing whether his corpse video was fake after all. It's frustrating. Some of these people just can't be reigned in.
When he pointed to the poster and said “we make mistakes yes we do” and “We forgive. So get to it.” It pissed me off so much. He knows his only audience is young and stupid and won’t know any better. He doesn’t care about what he did. I just can’t forgive someone who justified pedophilia and sexualized children and then goes on to say he and Ryland want kids.
When hannah covered james horrific actions against minors ,the most ive ever seen her angry she factually said "Some things cant be forgiven some things shouldnt be forgiven" I agree with her there Can people plz stop preaching forgivness, to forgive very deplorable things?
@@fadalerabrasool3563 when she said how people punish the messengers instead of the perpetrators, she hit the nail on the head. None of these people will face consequences and it’s infuriating.
I went through an Ada on Demand rabbithole yesterday, discovered in shock and disbelief her Ranking video on Shane, on this morning your video notification pops up. I love when the universe aligns like that 💫😍
I do wish those who held him accountable didn’t lose faith that easy. He might be able to come back once or twice but his fans do grow up and there is only so many YEARLY breaks one can take….
Haven't even gotten through the video yet but just wanted to say you posting more often again has re reminded me how much I have missed you posting, you're probably my favorite UA-camr at this moment and I hope you are feeling better ❤
Has Shane ever apologized for his predatory behavior with children? Cancel culture doesn't work as long as media platforms prefer money over accountability of people on the platform.
What you were explaining about hearing on a podcast is exactly what happened with Trump. People are so invested they can’t bring themselves to see the truth.
Cancel culture does not work, because a LOT of the same people who cancelled him came back tu support him after his hiatus because ''I missed him'' and ''I don't support his actions, but I just love his videos''. They sweep their own morals under the rug for a stupid video as if Shane is the only youtuber out there. There are hundreds of creators who aren't as problematic as he is, whose videos are way more entertaining (I'm sorry but objectively speaking shane's videos are badly edited and boring content-wise) and yet they still come back crawling as if they have absolutely no one else to watch. They don't care about ''he's changed'', it's just a lame excuse to continue watching his videos. It's idiotic.
I hate how some people label everything cancel rather than accountable. Illegal issues should not be cancel culture but crimes. The things that James Charles and Shane Dawson are illegal they should never be able to come back.
This was so well explained so thoroughly, I really appreciate the time and thought put behind this. I feel the same way as a former fan of Shane's, and I can only hope one day he does believe the damage he's done. Unfortunately I don't think he believes he actually hurt anyone.
This was a great video and you made some great points. Reminds me of the helloleesh situation with the karaoke videos and her saying the N-word and the F word, so many white people, straight white people at that, were defending her saying those words and other people were complaining about why they can’t say that word so it shouldn’t be in a song. People completely missing the point and also excepting an apology that was not for them. I wouldn’t even call Alicia‘s apology that, it was just a PR move much like Shane Dawson‘s “apology“ videos
Whenever someone mentions the tale of the Emperor's New Clothes, I always think of a version I read as a child where the Emperor (and all the characters) were penguins...
It also helps that, even when the creators still have a lot of supporters, more individuals get informed and can decide for themselves if they want to support the creator's action.
I’m so happy you dropped Manny MUA name. The fact that he has a podcast where he so proudly holds accountable the Ace family and other youtubers but stays silent and promotes new James Charles merch. I was so disappointed because I liked his podcast but it seems hypocritical now.
Lol kinda funny that a “previous clout-chaser” is being hypocritical abt the people whose clout he’s sharking again
Ew wtf 😷
Agree! I was like, yes Hannah 🙌🙌🙌
Does Manny and JC have the same representation maybe? I thought it was so crazy when he supported him. I wondered if maybe management told him to.
Same here. Not surprised that these influencers are snakes, though.
i SWEAR i remember shane saying in his 2020 "apology" video that he "should've lost his career" for the things he's done and that he was ok with losing it. him coming back just proves he meant literally nothing in that apology and he doesn't truly see why people were mad in the first place
Lmao he’s just trying to manipulate us again 😭 “I should’ve lost everything !!1!!” aka “feel bad for me as I fake being upset and feeling guilty for what I did!!” He’s such a joke.
THIS!!!!!!!!
I've been thinking EXACTLY the same thing! I remember him saying he "deserved to lose his career and everything he has" or whatever and that he "understands" why everybody is/was so mad (he clearly doesn't!) He hasn't learned all that much! Maybe a little bit (how to be more sneaky maybe) but I don't believe he truly holds himself accountable.
He’s okay with “losing his career” if you define it as losing 100% of his fan base, because he knows that will never happen. He wants us to do the dirty work of holding him accountable for him. As long as he has a fan base he can pretend that what he did wasn’t bad enough to lose his career, when in reality it’s HIS responsibility to hold himself accountable by leaving the platform.
And making jokes about making mistakes in his comeback video. Like excuse me sir pedophilic jokes are not a fucking "mistake" they're an abomination 😡
I can't stop thinking about Franchesca Ramsey and how hard she tried to hold Shane accountable back in the day and how horribly his stans harassed her. I think part of why some of the older stans still protect him is because they're protecting themselves from accountability. They don't want to face the fact that they were on the wrong side and were bullies.
edit - I misspelt Franchesca's first name! Thank you for all the love!
Bingo!
EXACTLY. It reflects poorly on ourselves what type of people we are. Nobody wants to believe that they're a bad person. "So if _they're_ a bad person and I support them - what does that make me" kinda thing.
Crazy he called her a cunt for her talking his racist comedy vids years ago…. Like who does that and then tries to come off as if they’re completely innocent?? Narcissistic at best, man.
I think the biggest reason why his old fans still defend him is because they were probably kids when he was putting out inappropriate content and were therefore groomed in a way to thinking that the content was and is acceptable. I don’t think they’re being ignorant on purpose but because they don’t know any better, even if they’re adults now.
@@tossefin p
SOO proud of you for calling Manny out even tho you’re friendly with him! He should not be supporting JC and I’m glad you did not hesitate!!
Yes I was thinking the same, I was wondering what was her take since she and Manny seem amicable, I’m glad she stood her ground, JC needs to be gone
Same here.
1000% agree. thank you hannah
@@Ryan-pg1tw I don’t seem to think so at all
@@Ryan-pg1tw disagree
Oh snap I was so hoping you were going to talk about this! Even though it’s painful to even look at that dudes face honestly
Shane is that friend who hypes you up before introducing you to the group before forming a weirdly intimate friendship, followed by abruptly triangulating you and the group against each other, thus making you the villain.
OH HI BABY!
HANNAH?? YOURE HERE?? 0.0
Hahahahahahhaha omg literallyyy
Hannah?! what are you doing here?!
Honestly, I have given up on the idea of “cancelling” someone. The people who end up facing real consequences are few and far between and its usually not for racism or sexual assault because society does not care about those issues. People cancelled Brooke Houts but Jeffree, Shane and James still have careers. Now I just worry about who I personally support and if I can sleep at night supporting them. I’m no longer trying to convince anyone. I just notice who supports who, because birds of a feather flock together. I also notice how people are quicker to cancel black women for way less, i.e Jackie Aina. Its funny
I agree 100%
Yesssss 100%
Yes. Totally agree. Women in general get cancelled for such small things, but women POC get it so much worse because they are expected to be perfect for some reason. It’s so crazy to me.
Brooke Houts 100% deserved to get cancelled. you dont abuse a poor sweet dog
@@luffyduffy7817 she did, but racism and sexual assault are just as bad as animal abuse and yet, who are the top creators? Full of racists and assaulters
An issue I have with some of his supporters is how they keep trying to say that all of Shane's past racist and bigoted humor were just jokes and he's moved on. He didn't just do a bad Wendy Williams impression in blackface, he deliberately mocked Black people's appearance and perpetuated harmful stereotypes for the sake of comedy. Ex-friends have come out and said Shane and his mother made racist statements at the time. MacDoesIt spoke to Shane about how he should include more POCs in his series and claimed Shane had a panic attack during the conversation and needed Ryland to calm him down.
Also, there are many things Shane hasn't acknowledged. He never apologized to Willow Smith, addressed the allegations Tati made against him, the skits he did with the Fine Bros., or apologized for his outburst on Instagram where he dismissed Tati's s*xual assault (I'm not saying Tati is unproblematic but that was not a good day for Shane). He's still friends with several very problematic people that no true empath would ever actually associate with.
His cancellation was never just based upon old jokes. As a former fan of him, I feel very disappointed in him.
I feel the same way! I’m so tired of hearing people say, “He’s apologized already, get over it!!”. Uh, no he hasn’t. I know it’s probably not possible for him to go back and go over every single racist/sexist/homophobic joke he ever made, (which like, I think that says something that he’s made so many of those jokes that it’s nearly impossible to get to them all), but there are some really huge things that people have been asking him to address for so long, and he just seems to plug his ears and go make some shitty ghost story videos. I started watching him when he was doing spooky stuff with Garrett/Andrew and the whole gang, and it’s insane seeing all of the disgusting stuff he used to do, (and stuff he still continues to do!)
@@gracek704 You actually bring up another good point there. The majority of the 23 million subscribers Shane had prior to his cancellation subscribed to him over the course of 2017-2019, according to SocialBlade. More than half of his audience was new and had little to no prior knowledge of his old content. I had some knowledge but didn't realize how bad the bigoted content was and thought he changed when he apologized for doing blackface in 2014. Of course, he negated that apology in his 2020 video where he said all of his past apology videos were made out of fear, not true remorse. Like a kid who says they're sorry only because they got caught, not because they actually feel guilty.
@@gracek704 Also I made another comment on this video where I stated I believe Shane's content was better when he had Garrett around as a collaborative partner. His videos took a dive in quality after Garrett left. An example of something I noticed post-Garrett was Shane's excessive use of B-roll footage that would clog up the flow of his videos.
@@marissaurias5116 Bree Essrig and Quadir Howard were two ex-friends that came out against Shane. Bree said Shane was a manipulative friend who talked shit about people behind their back. Quadir said Shane was genuinely racist.
Also the pedophiliac behavior with his teen fans and what he’s said on his podcast, calling Francesca Ramsey a cunt, and his behavior on the set of “Not Cool”…. Im not even bringing it up because he needs to apologize for it, its just more evidence in how narcissistic, human, and rude/cruel he can be and i don’t understand how his fans dont see nor realize that??? There’s so much evidence for the shit he’s done to people but for some reason people are brainwashed.
Honestly I didn’t realise how long Shane had been gone, I could really go forever w/o him on here
I didn't realise he was gone that long either and wish he would stay gone
Same, it will never be long enough. He needs to stay away!
As a black queer person who has literally been that little boy that people bullied when I pointed out the emperor was naked my point of watching this was to see how you explained cancel culture and this time around i can say I completely agree but also as a black and queer person I'm not disappointed just numb and I am completely aware that people can make whole ass career off of making my exsisitence harder for a " joke " but I do appreciate hearing other people opinions on the matter regardless
Sending you love❤️❤️
I’m sorry you’ve struggled ❤️ Mexican here ✋🏽 and from minority to minority I am sending you love and respect ❤️
I am sincerely sorry for your struggle and also sending you peace and love.
Just wanted to say I’m sending love your way. 💜
Same fam. Everytime I see stuff from the 2000's and 2010's it's a fun little reminder of why I hated myself so much back then. Got a Facebook memory from 2013 the other day where someone said I "make a really pretty black woman" and that was wild to see. Not disappointed, not even a little surprised, definitely numb
YES! Nick’s video breakdowns are the best! They don’t just attack Shane and approach it from a technical standpoint as well.
Not to mention how casually hilarious he is 😝
Nicks pronouns are they/them
@@Heraisedawolf, I’m so sorry. Thank you so much for the reminder. I’ve edited my comment.
@@Heraisedawolf nick uses he/they to clarify but still it’s good to use both :)
But also when he does attack it’s the funniest best roasts ever 😆
i appreciate you saying something about Manny supporting James. I know you guys are friendly with each other and it can be hard to call out less than ideal behavior from someone you know and respect
I was thinking the same thing!
Me too! Hope he sees this video :)
If you can call out a friend's bad behavior and he or she can do the same with you, I think that is a true friendship.
it’s bare minimum…
the thing that bothers me re: "you just wanna cancel them to ruin their lives/careers!" is that... that doesnt happen anyway. not being able to post on this platform and make millions of dollars is not life ruining for these people. most of them have already made their millions, theyll be fine. leaving the platform is LITERALLY the least they could do.
Agree with everything you've said but a also add that to those saying we just want to ruin careers, so what if their careers are ruined? People shouldn't have careers based on racism, sexual assault, predatory behaviour, beastiality, sexism, animal abuse, misogyny, abelism, etc. What about the lives that Shane ruined? What about the pain he caused to marginalised groups? If all that happens to him is that his career is ruined and he never comes back to UA-cam, that's the least her deserves. There are so many other jobs other than being a UA-camr and being a public figure. Shane should go find one of the jobs where he doesn't get to spew his nonsense to millions of people.
@@CJAmara EXACTLY! 👏
I feel like Shane takes advantage of the letting the heat die down and figuratively come in like a shy little boy with his head down asking us if we’re still mad at him with this 🥺🥺🥺 usual sad look on his face. He knows what he’s doing.
Awesome very articulate
You're so correct and it makes me want to barf
Couldn’t have said it better myself
💯
"I hate the term 'cancel culture' because it has become meaningless and a way for influencers martyr themselves" YES! True on youtube, true everywhere else.
If it wasn’t for the last time Shane got “canceled” I would probably still be watching him. But because of people holding him accountable, I refuse to watch his videos or support him in any way
Same. In a way it’s the least I can do but it’s also impossible not to see his undeniable cluster B (probably sociopathic) personality clearer now
same
Let's be honest, Garrett, Andrew and Drew were the reason we really watched his videos
doesn't garrett have a podcast now?
@@paperigangsta he’s got a whole channel!
THIS!! 😭😭
Omg yes
Link?
Actually OBSESSED with everything Nick DiRamio. Catching up on all of their old content was a painful adjustment. And Ada on Demand is an absolute gem.
Nicks pronouns are they/them
I love Ada, I know her channel is gonna go places!
@@Heraisedawolf corrected. Thanks!
@@Heraisedawolf according to Nick’s about page his pronouns are he/they so Casey W. wasn’t wrong per se.
@@pristiq946 Yeah, and in their coming out video, he said he isn't super strict with pronouns. I don't follow him on any other social media, so I don't know if they've updated that at all, but just because they're nonbinary doesn't mean he only uses gender neutral pronouns. Sorry, didn't wanna make it a big stand or whatever, just kind of annoys me when people don't actually *listen* to trans/nb people and police nonbinary identity as strictly neutral through things like enforcing use of they/them only. And I say that as a nonbinary person who does identify most with a neutral form of gender.
I don’t even want to “cancel” Shane, I want him to be unable to hurt more people. I want him to stop having access to minors, I want him to stop being in the public eye. He could even do social media work behind the scenes, he could be a manager for (adult) creators. I just want him to stop trying to make his horrendous actions go away.
So something you missed about The Emperor’s New Cloth is that the Emperor was told only “wise people” can see them, and he was too embarrassed to say he couldn’t, and so were all the folks in the town. I think that part of being what Shane did that was so awful is that it was saying the same thing about morality. If you don’t see my apology is really me and that I’ve grown YOU are the problem- You are not moral and You don’t let people grow
I played the emperor for that play in elementary school haha
Honestly this video sums up how I feel about Trisha paytas. As someone in the lgbt community I’ve watched her come out as gay, as trans, as bisexual, as non binary, as a freaking chicken nugget etc and it completely just invalidates all of the struggles and hardships people like us go through. I feel like some straight people will see her and think the whole coming out concept is just one giant joke and something you do on a whim depending on what your sexuality or identity of the day may be. Oh but then suddenly Trisha is back on everyone’s good list because she decided to change directions from spitting on my community to suddenly calling out OTHER problematic youtubers like James Charles and then suddenly people loved her again because she became the queen of calling out problematic people to deflect from herself…seriously sometimes I feel like I’m in the matrix when it comes to Trisha and I’ve taken the red pill and I’ve woken up to all the bullshit, but everyone else around me has taken the blue pill and is looking at me like “what are you even talking about there’s nothing wrong”. it’s so frustrating at times, Trisha is someone I believe truly needs to be deplatformed because she has made a career of mocking entire groups of people and using them for clout and she’s STILL doing it.
I have never logged onto her site and am very supportive of The Trisha getting deplatformed. From what I have heard her views are way down and very criticized. It worries me that she has deleted her worst videos and will attract new viewers who do not know her history.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. She’s the kind of person that homophobes/transphobes are going to look at in order to validate their shitty opinions about our community.
Like that time she faked having DID
Every time I see youtubers get cancelled and have a large portion of their fans defend them as if they did nothing wrong, it makes me think about the Ryan Haywood situation from last year, and how I wish more ‘cancellations’ were handled the way that was. Long story short, he was a member of Achievement Hunter, a gaming channel on youtube, and it came out last year that he had used his status to take advantage of multiple fans. It was disgusting and a lot more complex than I described here, but he was immediately fired, the other AH members publicly spoke their disgust, and he was never mentioned again. He had caused harm with his platform, and so he lost it. The majority of fans that used to love him now don’t even miss him.
All this to say, I wish more people understood that sometimes people you watch online are just bad. And it sucks to find out, but that doesn’t mean you should just ignore the pain they’ve caused. Personally, I don’t understand how fans can defend these kinds of behaviors from creators, because I often feel disgusted that I ever liked those creators to begin with.
With Shane, I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t even care about him anymore. I don’t expect him to ever really change, and I simply don’t have the time or energy in my life to spend on someone who’s done so much harm and won’t own up to it.
Well said
My guess is that part of his audience ia younger and that is why some keep supporting him, similar to James Charles some of his defenders are young fans. Hopefully with time they will learn the extent of their damage they did. But I agree with you
@@c_louie670 I feel like a good amount of Shane’s fans are adults. They’ve grown up watching him and don’t want to admit that their childhood hero is a scumbag.
Ugh the Ryan situation was so sad and disgusting. Especially once you found out some of the girls were minors and he flew them out just to do....things with them. Thankfully, AH cut ties with him immediately and even managed to get his personal twitch taken down when he tried to make a comeback. And so far, he's been quiet all year and hopefully it stays that way.
I just wish other influencers got the same treatment.
@@hannahj4020 I agree with you but I still feel a part of his audience is young.
I can’t express how much I love listening to Hannah whilst smoking a joint. Both soothing & thought-provoking. I feel like she’s organising my thoughts for me.
Also living for Hannah & Nick being low-key allies, they’re my favourite creators by far rn.
Girl same!!! I always come prepared for a Smokey glow vid! ❤️
I’m literally doing this right now! Time to relax🧡
Yesss I have a cartridge right now. This is the perfect way to end the night
Time to relax is right, cheers to that! ❤️💁🏻♀️💨
same!! literally sparked one up as i clicked on this video. cheers. ;)
Honestly I think cancel culture doesn't exist. It's an umbrella term to design different actual phenomenons depending on the situation (cyber harassment, respectability politics, ad hominem, and more) but grouping all that under a single term allows ~some people~ to claim harsh consequences that they don't actually face. (aka how "cancel culture" effect more leftist circles and marginalized groups, mostly because of respectability politics and purist thoughts, yet it's conservative and rich people who whine about it more)
I absolutely 100% agree! You nailed it!
Exactly. There comes a point where a word means so many things that it means nothing at all. There doesn’t even seem to be a stable way of conceptualizing “cancellation,” or a stable set of goals one could use to decide if it’s “worked” or not. As Hannah points out, social change has usually not come about by ruining people, but by moving on without them. They still produce art or ideology, but are looked on as a sad relic of an unkinder age.
That doesn’t make it easier for those he’s affected to be OK in the short term, but the medium to long term should look different.
@@valerielevasseur8674 Best example I can think of is Onision, he will probably never leave the platform but everyone pretty much knows he's a preverted nut that we should just continue ignoring until he finally loses enough views and fans to go somewhere else
that's actually a great way to put it!
Honestly the thing that bothers me most about Shane is that it’s still just a joke to him. Like as a black woman, the shit that he said wasn’t a joke to me! Like it wasn’t even funny and to keep insinuating that they were jokes and still keep making jokes about the situation is what pisses me off. What is even worse is he is constantly trying to rewrite history and manipulated his audience which is what SmokeyGlow pointed out. Even when he was trying to “apologize” in the beginning he intentionally left out the details of what he was apologizing for because he knew that if he went into detail and reminded everyone about the awful things he did it was not gonna go well for him. That’s how I know he has not grown because he still trying to get around the things he did wrong. The things that Shane did are not things that he can just apologize once for he’s gonna have to apologize probably forever but that’s the price that you pay when you harm multiple groups of communities just for entertainment purposes.
Great comment. You’re absolutely right
I really appreciate that you highlighted how holding Shane accountable actually worked to some extent. Honestly I was beginning to feel pretty hopeless about the situation, and him receiving the consequences he deserves for his horrifying actions. But this discussion gave me a little hope, and a more positive lens of the situation. Thank you!! 💜
Same I was feeling like it doesn’t matter, but he can see his views aren’t what the used to be and it must hurt at least in the wallet and that is at least something
This was uploaded immediately as I started looking for something to watch while I eat. Divine timing at it's finest ✨
I also eat and watch UA-cam :p thought I was strange for that but it’s kinda like a friends w me 💕
“If the offenses you did are directly tied to your career then that is the appropriate avenue to go down where you’re going to loose some of that.” Yes! So many people don’t understand this. His career was built on the struggles and realities of others, not just POC but minors as well. When people were calling him out at the height of Shane’s career they were not only attacked but, in some instances, Shane would call them names and blast them. These weren’t “just jokes” and these weren’t just “part of a different time.” These things have hurt and have continued to hurt people. I was heavily bullied for being mixed and slightly darker than the rest of the kids in elementary school. Are the kids who did so still like that as adults? No, but I still deal with the effects of those words and actions today. Some apologized, some were avoidant. Regardless, I still deal with that hurt.
1) If this was a "normal" job he'd be fired and not allowed to come back...
2) Let's not forget he actually did and acted out inappropriate things with minors (and animals). That stuff is disgusting and I feel like its being overlooked and played down.
i think a lot of people also overlook how he affected others such as children and animals. It’s not just about his character. It’s also how he has affected people and how he hasn’t really done much to try and fix that. You can’t just apologise everything away.
Also his platform supported hate and created a place for people to express it back when youtube wasn’t even popular.
I’d love to see a Smokey Glow x Nick Diramio collab.
Between Nick’s technical break down and Hannah’s social commentary, it would be such a comprehensive discussion.
I’m sure some dumbass will release something soon that would be the perfect topic
I think I would actually shriek in excitement if I saw a Nick and Hannah video. 💯🖤
I think it really shows how little Shane learned when he uses the very real Sand Creek Massacre for his ghost hunting video and runs around the park saying shit like "I hear the Indian drums!"
Usually I wait to comment until I've watched the entire video so as not to sound deranged, but I just have to say that I have been WAITING FOR YOUR TAKE ON THIS and am so glad you're commenting on it!! Thank you very much for all your research and hard work.
Anyone who's "forgotten" what's Shane's done that we are mad about def check out Ada On Demand; Nick Diramio; and Jarvis Johnson's videos that call him out, for the context.
Don't forget D'Angelo Wallace!
@@larissabrglum3856 I knowww, unfortunately his video isn't up anymore cuz he doesn't want to give awful people like this more attention. Not sure if anyone saved it, tho I don't feel comfortable promoting people to go watch a re-upload if that's against what he wants! But that was such an excellent detailed breakdown, I wish he had kept that one up.
I’m doing a research paper for school based on the question, “what is UA-cam’s responsibility towards their own creator guidelines and monetization policies in the face of content creators who violate their policies?” And Shane Dawson is basically my number one case study to use, especially after getting his monetization revoked and then returned to him and being put on the trending tab after his return to the platform. Your videos have been a big source being used so thank you so much !!! Love the channel and the videos !!
Hey, UA-cam ... tell me you're racist without telling me you're racist.
[ UA-cam puts Shane Dawson at the #1 trending spot ]
It's crazy that yt "stuff" is being used for research, but then when I think about, it makes total sense. 😂 Wishing you luck with your research, OP
That is such an interesting and timely topic. Good luck with your paper. I am actually interested in reading it.
If you haven't watched Ann Reardon's videos (How to Cook That) she also talks about YT's responsibility to create and enforce guidelines on misleading "hack" videos!
@@collyflower6623 I’ll definitely check it out!! And if anyone has more recommendations on channels and videos to check out for my paper that would be very very helpful !!! 💓
it made me so happy to hear you reference jon stewart's podcast, he is such a massive hero of mine and i've been feeling sad that people in their 20s and younger missed out on what a beacon of sanity he was throughout the 2000s and 2010s with his tireless crusade against bullshit in all its forms. it was so nice to hear him mentioned again :) a relevant quote that i think sums up a lot of what hannah talks about here: "the best defense against bullshit is constant vigilance"
I remember watching The Daily Show with him when I was younger and I'm 25! He's so funny but also such a great guy.
He will never make it past his youtube bubble- no reputable company would ever work with him on a film. I will never ever ever ever forget what he did. The video of him doing horrific things to the poster of a minor is burned into my brain. Nope, I'll never forgive him.
This is the only video I’ve seen so far that articulately lays out in words exactly how I feel about this situation. It’s like everyone else only got surface level, but you went deeper and really explained why things are the way that they are. So happy to have you back ❤️
I actually think how he addresses the issues in the first episode was very revealing. Every 10 seconds he would do his ADHD humor to avoid addressing the point and making something sincere and then when he finally did address it he did a ‘both sides’ and tried to justify his work because he has such a big ego he can’t just admit what he did was trash.
I think this apology was a lot better than that last one but I hope he actually learn from what he did and it not just pretending
And the constant comments about how badly it affected him all.. like he didn’t do something to cause the reaction from the world. Like constant comments about suicidal thoughts etc
Hey hey don’t bring ADHD into this we don’t claim his a$$ we pass him to the racist pedophiles and zoophiles sociopaths psychopaths and narcissist. It’s no returns
no refunds, final sale
I appreciate that even though you are friends with Manny you are speaking publicly about him supporting James. It just doesn’t make any sense. And then the whole situation where he held Harry accountable for saying something (granted it was bad) about James? But can’t hold James accountable himself.... uhg
I wish we would stop talking about influencers’ “scandals” in terms of “offending” people and start calling it what it is, harming people and promoting harmful ideas and behaviors. People aren’t “taking offense” to Shane’s content, they’re upset because people have actually been harmed by it. It’s not just about people’s feelings, it’s also about how he influenced kids think racism, homophobia, transphobia, pedophilia, etc were okay and funny which actually caused real harm to the people who were the butt of the joke. Which makes it extra not okay when his apologies are basically just “I’m sorry to anyone I offended.” Like don’t apologize because you think people are offended, apologize for doing the harmful things you did. Like his content didn’t just exist in a vacuum on the internet that can be deleted and forgotten about because he said “sorry you feel that way” and it still doesn’t seem like he understands that.
I appreciate you bringing up Manny, because I know you’re at least friendly with him, because you’re out here following your own criticism. This is what I subbed for and what I click fast for every time you upload. It’s not easy to call out friends like that, and it sucks, but you can’t set the precedent that we’re allowing that behavior. Keep it up bestie ❤️
You've made some magnificent videos, very well researched, very well spoken. this could be your best work Hannah. I can really hear the passion in your voice and it comes from a place of true genuine care. Keep on making more "my thoughts" videos, you are a very much needed voice.
you holding manny accountable shows that you can be friends with someone while still staying objective and unbiased. Your setting a great example Hannah!
just knowing everything he did whether it was 12 years ago or 2, I couldn’t even imagine sitting in front of a screen and giving this man the time of day. I did watch a review of the 3 parts however, and I just found myself so angry at how he hasn’t changed at all. Even just from a content perspective, I think if he did actually change after “being canceled’ his content should’ve changed too. It had the same feel of something he’d post in 2018, stretching the whole premise over like 3 hours of content, and while it was portrayed as a ghost hunting video, also included a new house tour, a no-assed “apology”/explaination, AND his fiancé’s family just overflowing with support as if nothing has happened felt so wrong to me and shows how little he cares.
Me getting ready to sleep : 🛌
Hannah posting a new video me:🧍🏻♀️
Oh can’t wait wait for this video!
I missed you while you were on your break. I am glad your back..
I haven't finished watching this video yet but what really pissed me off about Shane's return was that he kept talking about the cancellation as if he was a victim and bringing up suicide for sympathy. While being suicidal is awful, he's not alone in experiencing it. It's just like "oh wow is me, I'm facing the consequences of my actions and feel sad that people are trying to hold me accountable. I'm such a victim" and just not change anything at all.
I think that if he uploaded a video on his channel that laid out everything he did and maybe apologize but then deleted his channel and create a new one to start from the beginning again. His platform is built on rotten foundations so starting again shows that he wants to be better while acknowledging his harm.
While I agree he was victimizing himself, admonishing someone for being suicidal and talking about it ain’t it. This is going too far.
@@thisishersong to be fair plenty of the people he directly insulted are also suicidal.
UA-cam does not care about what Shane did. They got pressured to demonetize him even though he was one of the creators bringing in the most money. The moment he comes back they see this as an economic gain it's sick
Theres a really good tumblr post that roughly says, "when someone puts sh*t on the potluck table, we don't all stand around debating whether or not it should be on the table. Its sh*t"
That reminds me of an old saying I’ve heard, which feels like it’s relevant given the situation. A bar tender once told me “if you let one just sk*nh**d into your bar, you will find yourself running a n**I bar before you know it. You are the company you keep and one rotten apple spoils the bunch. Shane and his friends are trash bags. They will never change.
I’m glad you mention the other UA-camrs supporting this people. I’m glad you called out manny and others for supporting James. Much love!
I also think that him saying he's changed and then immediately "scary Indian gravesite" ghost hunting says a lot about him. Like, he's straight up monetizing genocide...
i think one example of friends holding each other accountable is in the recent valkyrae business venture in the twitch community. her friends came forward to condemn her action (promoting scam products to her fans), but stood by and vouched for her personality, while also maintaining that her action was wrong.
Hey hun just so you know you're really appreciated on this platform and in general.
Love the channel
The pallet
The jokes
The sincerity
It's always positive here ❤️
I’d love to know your opinion on Tati!
I used to be such a big fan, watched every single video. Once the drama began my heart sank and I couldn’t watch her videos anymore. Now that she is making her come back i can’t help but feel kind of bad for her.
Getting ready to go to bed, but I can't WAIT to watch this in the morning! 😃
His pattern of victimizing himself in terms of not getting sponsors will return because companies will be reluctant to collaborate with him again. Now after learning about the first 5-7 years of his career, it makes sense that he had a hard time getting sponsorships.
the statement that people shouldn't be "cancelled" if the material that warranted the cancellation happened years ago is so fucking stupid. if they haven't shown genuine change since then is THE reason they're getting cancelled. I'm the instance of JC is that he never showed change and if happened multiple times. the same goes for Tana , Gabbie, Trisha and Shane. I'm so glad that you aren't ashamed to call out Manny , i think you'd be a great journalist/publicist❤️
“Or you want to hear me roast Shane for 30 minutes or however long this video ends up being”…. And then the video is 29:56 💕
JUST WHEN I WAS WATCHING OLD ‘trying to look like an instagram model’ VIDS!! just in time 🥰 hope you’re well Hannah!!
I'm a TA in history and one of the things I teach my students seems relevant here. History is not neutral or unbiased. period. It is not our jobs to attempt to teach anything "neutrally" because that in itself is a disservice. There are a lot of things that were seen as facts in the past (literally anything on gender and race) that were never true but treated as truth and fact. AND on top of that who we include in our histories is not neutral, neither are the values we bring as historians (or in this case you). Pretending our values don't exist or attempt to disassociate from them is also a disservice. Quite frankly history, or your role on youtube benefits from your perspective and the values you, Hannah, hold. Just thought I'd throw this out there.
Your point is valid but if I had a friend who consistently talked to minors I’m telling them about themselves ask them to get help and if not cutting them off I think the influencers that still support these problematic influencers KNOW that they will still have die hard fans and are willing to support due to being linked to their die hard fans. it’s so sick and twisted. working in social media is not for the weak and you literally to have no morals to prosper so sad
23:28 on that note, i’m so glad eddy burback posted about how disappointed and horrified he was to find out about how gus johnson was treating his (now ex) girlfriend abelina sabrina. they had been best friends for a while, but eddy still called him out and stood by sabrina. i was so impressed by that. eddy’s a good dude and for me this is proof.
I agree with you that holding people accountable with “cancel” culture is effective. I grew up watching Shane and it wasn’t until I watched D’Angelo Wallace’s video that I really saw how much he refuses to address and apologize for. I genuinely feel like there’s a level of grooming that goes on in the Shane Dawson community that isn’t really talked about. I was 14 when I started watching him. Now I’m 25 and I just can’t let him profit off of me knowing the things he has done to to children, animals, and people of my skin color. And it’s not easy. Every few months I have to rewatch D’Angelo’s video to remind myself that he’s a bad person because I genuinely do start to miss him and his content. Unless his channel drops a 10 part documentary series about him getting some serious therapy, I’m not interested in what he has to say.
I’ve really been looking forward to you breaking this all down! Very excited for this upload! :D
I think cancel culture doesn’t really work because we all like to think of ourselves as these high minded individuals who hold people accountable for their wrongs, but that’s not really what we want… we want to watch someone rich and famous get butchered and roasted. I remember watching Shane Dawson’s apology and then watching a bunch of videos on it from people, who hated it and got mad at it and picked it apart. That’s the thing with all the apology videos you can apologize until you are blue in the face and no one cares, because that’s not what people are here for and pretending anything else is just disingenuous. I don’t really care about Shane Dawson in particular but he’a an interesting test case. No one ever even entertained the idea of thinking any apology canceled people make it good, everyone is there to tear it apart regardless of what it actually says, and we can all pretend we are better than that and we “care about this issues.” But in terms of internet canceling moral outrage is dead. It’s a public square hanging and we are all there to watch, and commentary channels are there to read the charges and get performatively angry about it. We don’t want justice we want a show. If you want justice you take concrete action to improve conditions around an issue and that’s hard. I sort of see this the same way as the people who post about social issues on Instagram and think they have “done an activism” like have you actually done something or is it just for show?
Can we also call out Emma Chamberlain for still supporting James Charles? She’s been sneaky about it - they don’t necessarily comment on each other’s posts (that I’ve seen anyways), but she still follows him on Instagram. She’s gotten absolutely no backlash for this and it’s beyond frustrating.
shes annoying
Once again..I was lamenting to the UA-cam Gods about the lack of anything remotely interesting for me to consume while doing housework! Apparently they have your phone number and gave you a jingle! Thank you for another great video. So well thought out! ❤️ (This is the SECOND time this week you’ve came through)
Call cancel culture what it used to be called: boycotting.
when you were talking about the “attacking the person who called out someone you like because it’s easier than realizing they’re a bad person” i really found that to be true. a while ago, i used to be a fan of gabbie hanna (thank god that’s over) and when everyone started calling her out, i would go to those videos and call the creators names. like really bad names. because how could this person who i love and idolize so much ever be a bad person? but eventually i did see through her bs, and now i can see that she really is a bad person. anyway, i just wanted to tell you how great that analogy is. i love you!
“I’ve changed” makes a silly ghost video that takes place on the grave of hundreds of murdered First Nations, uses indigenous slurs, lightly makes comments and shitty typed messages of “we are here with respect tho”. All while the graves of thousands of First Nations children are being dug up in the US & Canada. Everyone: he’s changed :))))
Over the past few years of "cancellations" of UA-camrs, there is a very clear pattern that men get let off easier than women.
I just think it's hilarious he thinks he's going to be a horror film maker.... anyone can find creepy soundbites. The camera work and editing has always been a mess. So embarrassing that I got sucked into his videos through scrolling random conspiracy videos..
the thing ab the soundbites, exactly! i don’t like this group of people anymore, but i literally remember hearing some of the “horror” sound effects in the slimecircle video about rolling a 100-sided dice while playing minecraft
I really appreciate you mentioning Manny MUA here, I know that was probably difficult. I obviously don’t know him as well as you but I do like him from afar and I was really disappointed that he was actively promoting James Charles.
This video is excellent, however, my brain got hung up on the idea of a "here's the thing" mug and needed to restart watching because I took a minor sketching break to figure out how that would look 😅 regardless, I love hearing your thoughts on topics like this! You're always so well spoken and insightful
Ok so I haven't watched the full video yet so I might be swayed but I have pretty much never seen a cancellation truly stick. There's definitely been some cases where people were "cancelled" for a significant period of time, but even then they weasel their way back in once some other scandal occurs. At this point cancel culture just pisses me off cause it's basically a bunch of people yelling at a wall. Update: I watched the video and while I think it's nice to say "calling people out sets a precedent" I think it's not adequate. Are people like Shane, James, and Jeffree getting less views? Yeah sure. Are they also probably still getting tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars off of their UA-cam career? Also yes. Saying someone makes $500,000 a year instead of $1,000,000 is not enough for me because they shouldn't be able to continue at all. Horrible people will see that and think "I can still get x amount of views even if I do this horrible shit" not "damn I shouldn't do horrible shit because people will call me out and not support me"
I appreciate the way you articulate this and the thought you’ve put into it but truly don’t care about him returning to UA-cam.
At the end of the day, all we can do is hold him accountable by not consuming his content, it’s a sad truth that ‘cancelling’ creators that make youtube as much money as Shane does achieves absolutely nothing.
"Canceling" influencers would work if people went after their sponsors and platforms that continue to allow them to remain and continue making content. That is where the problem really lies. I think that a great majority of people are fine with not doing so because they get something out of the drama or simply because they are as horrible as them. Being an influencer is a huge priviledge not a right if peole really want to hold them accountable they have to understand that the consequences arent pretty.
What annoys me the most are people saying "everyone makes mistakes" like no. Making a mistake is saying a bad word in front of a kid not trying to grope them like ?? Racism isn't a mistake that I've seen people around me make. He knew what he was doing and I am sick of people letting it go like it's nothing. It contributes to the fact that racism is okay and that we shouldn't make such a big deal of past racism.
Shane comes back 1. Doesn't own up to or really apologize for anything 2. Exploits a Native Americans burial ground for the sake of sh**tty quality content ( and it was spectacularly sh**ty quality ) 3. Will continue to go on ignoring the criticism aimed at him while making sub-par videos 👌 whats new?
i was wondering what you thought of this!!! glad you and nick covered sh*ne so i dont have to watch him myself to figure out whats going on
I think if Shane was going to apologize he waited way too long and should have dropped that months before his actual return to making content. I don’t think people will continue watching him.. the “spooky” content to me is a bore and played up too much. Shane’s quirky jokes and personality that used to make it a worthwhile regardless of the context, now feels like a drawn out act for the camera when it used to feel genuine and relatable.
The fact that in almost two years he hasn’t stopped being self deprecating, specifically about his weight and size every 10 minutes, tells me he’s still in the same childish head space that got him cancelled in the first place and he wants sympathy points..
Thank you for the Ada on Demand shout out!!! She deserves it so much!!!! Her video about the old show about making the next big white rapper is probably my fav she’s made.
Remember back when Logan Paul was the worst person in the world?
Shortly after he's boxing against KSI, and people totally bought his ruse. He was drowning all the controversy in the next hype.
Now some youtube channels are discussing whether his corpse video was fake after all.
It's frustrating. Some of these people just can't be reigned in.
It's disgusting that he thought he could return to the internet through profiting off of Indigenous people's genocide.
When he pointed to the poster and said “we make mistakes yes we do” and “We forgive. So get to it.” It pissed me off so much. He knows his only audience is young and stupid and won’t know any better. He doesn’t care about what he did.
I just can’t forgive someone who justified pedophilia and sexualized children and then goes on to say he and Ryland want kids.
When hannah covered james horrific actions against minors ,the most ive ever seen her angry she factually said
"Some things cant be forgiven some things shouldnt be forgiven"
I agree with her there Can people plz stop preaching forgivness, to forgive very deplorable things?
@@fadalerabrasool3563 when she said how people punish the messengers instead of the perpetrators, she hit the nail on the head. None of these people will face consequences and it’s infuriating.
@@Liz-be1wq Its so angering that these white influencers will be ok for doing these deplorable things
@@fadalerabrasool3563 funny how James and Shane have more in common than Shane did with Jeffree 🤪
@@Liz-be1wq Also funny how Shane wanted to serve James a piece of humble pie.
I went through an Ada on Demand rabbithole yesterday, discovered in shock and disbelief her Ranking video on Shane, on this morning your video notification pops up. I love when the universe aligns like that 💫😍
I do wish those who held him accountable didn’t lose faith that easy. He might be able to come back once or twice but his fans do grow up and there is only so many YEARLY breaks one can take….
Haven't even gotten through the video yet but just wanted to say you posting more often again has re reminded me how much I have missed you posting, you're probably my favorite UA-camr at this moment and I hope you are feeling better ❤
Me: but I have two tests tomorrow it’s 10 and I need to get up early I should go to bed early
Hannah: LMAO YOU THOUGHT
youve been posting so much! im living for this :)
You are quite literally my favorite UA-camr. I drop EVERYTHING when I see a new video from you. Love, a fellow social worker ❤️
All of Nick’s breakdowns of Shane’s videos are comedy GOLD. He is terribly underrated. I hope y’all collab someday 😩
Has Shane ever apologized for his predatory behavior with children?
Cancel culture doesn't work as long as media platforms prefer money over accountability of people on the platform.
What you were explaining about hearing on a podcast is exactly what happened with Trump. People are so invested they can’t bring themselves to see the truth.
Cancel culture does not work, because a LOT of the same people who cancelled him came back tu support him after his hiatus because ''I missed him'' and ''I don't support his actions, but I just love his videos''. They sweep their own morals under the rug for a stupid video as if Shane is the only youtuber out there. There are hundreds of creators who aren't as problematic as he is, whose videos are way more entertaining (I'm sorry but objectively speaking shane's videos are badly edited and boring content-wise) and yet they still come back crawling as if they have absolutely no one else to watch. They don't care about ''he's changed'', it's just a lame excuse to continue watching his videos. It's idiotic.
I hate how some people label everything cancel rather than accountable. Illegal issues should not be cancel culture but crimes. The things that James Charles and Shane Dawson are illegal they should never be able to come back.
This was so well explained so thoroughly, I really appreciate the time and thought put behind this. I feel the same way as a former fan of Shane's, and I can only hope one day he does believe the damage he's done. Unfortunately I don't think he believes he actually hurt anyone.
This was a great video and you made some great points. Reminds me of the helloleesh situation with the karaoke videos and her saying the N-word and the F word, so many white people, straight white people at that, were defending her saying those words and other people were complaining about why they can’t say that word so it shouldn’t be in a song. People completely missing the point and also excepting an apology that was not for them. I wouldn’t even call Alicia‘s apology that, it was just a PR move much like Shane Dawson‘s “apology“ videos
Whenever someone mentions the tale of the Emperor's New Clothes, I always think of a version I read as a child where the Emperor (and all the characters) were penguins...
The one I read they were t-rexs. Lol
It also helps that, even when the creators still have a lot of supporters, more individuals get informed and can decide for themselves if they want to support the creator's action.