I recently installed an R-32 mini split (24k btu) in my finished basement to replace an R-410a unit. I currently live in the southeast USA. When it is 95°F outside with a humidity of 70+, the vent temperature was 44°F on R-410a and now 36°F on R-32. The R-410a system used about 915 watts running and the new system uses only 509 watts. The new R-32 unit is so efficient that I have it running on just 3 solar panels most of the time. Also, I have an 8 year old window AC in my garage that uses R-32 and have never had an issue. The flammability of A2L can't possibly be more than my natural gas lines running all over my home for the water heaters, central furnace and cooktop.
Mines almost 30 years old, I've lived in this house for nearly 25 years and I can't remember it ever having major problems. If it ever had a condenser motor changed then it was YEARS ago that I couldn't even recall, much less a simple capacitor.
"More efficient and more reliable" Where have you guys been past 50 years? Older machines used to run for 30 years easily 20. Today "new" systems break down in 5-10 years needing parts.. Often expensive parts. Things are not made better at all. They are made to fail. This is common with nearly everything we buy today. All made to be replaced. Manufactures did not forget how to make quality products they just refuse. Some handful of companies own nearly everything.
And going from two boards (controls/inverter) to one means you now have to replace a much more expensive single board rather than the one (most commonly the inverter) if either the control or inverter fails.
previously hardware were designed mechanically, with minimal electronics in mind. Now electronics play a big part. A small blown capacitor or chip might affect the electronics we have today. Rendering the circuit board to be replaced as it makes the whole machine unusable. As we know, circuit boards are complicated designs squeezed into a small piece of board. 10 years down the road, manufacturers won't be printing out the same board as it's not economically viable to make the same circuit board 10 years down the road with new designs in mind.
I'm not sure if my cheap units are Daikin or Midea built, but they have R32 refrigerants. I bought and installed 2 12k 120V systems for my fairly open 1200 sq/ft. home. Winter time had 4 days where it didn't get above 15f, and summer had a few days of 108f. House temp has remained a constant 69f. The best project I've ever undertaken.
cheap crap is deffo midea.... that garbage gets thrown after you if you don't buy it for 3 bucks. 😂 and if anything breaks you never get replacement parts because the chinese crap factory makes a living off selling AC units. not off the aftermarket. so there you go. cheap crap rendered a total loss as soon as something goes south. best advice is heaving all PCB's for outdoor and a whole indoor unit of every kind that is installed. otherwise you're EFFFED. dry in the rear end.
i filled up my VRV with R454b which was factory charged with 410A... All good no issues here. Machine running even more smooth. You should try this one time on the channel.
Encouraging video as I am looking to change one of my package units that is quite old to a new mini-split system. Living in the Arizona desert, any refrigerant described as colder is a good thing. Thank you!
Today I did my first R32 mini split system at my company here in Southern California. R410A is officially over. We aren’t going to be buying any more inverters with 410A
The HVAC industry wasn’t ready for A2Ls when it launched outside the US, and it still isn’t ready today, the only circumstance when the refrigerants flammability is an issue is when techs aren’t using key best practices when brazing including; recovering into a vacuum, purging with nitrogen after recovering, CUTTING OUT ALL COMPONENTS NOT SWEATING OUT and flowing nitrogen when actively brazing. The problem is 99% of Techs aren’t doing these practices, which is going to result in igniting the refrigerant when brazing under some circumstances. Otherwise A2L refrigerants like R32 and R454B are fine.
You should always use nitrogen when brazing to make sure you are having a clean atmosphere inside the pipes... Secondly oil also can be burned. Everyone forgets that. Its not very flammable but when brazing you will have this issue too. Always vacuum before working on these machines. break vacuum with nitrogen and then open the machine.
It runs on high pressure just like 410a so you’re still going to have leaky coils, only differences the new refrigerant cost three times as much , in Europe they went with propane which is low pressure just like the old R22, And the propane air conditioners have sensors, so if it detects leaking propane, it shuts the system down
not high or low pressure is the problem. the crappy copper tubes that you could read the newspaper through is tze actual problem. that shit rots in a blink and then you gotta recover tze refrigerant, braze in a new one, draw vacuum re-charge it. if only the tube wall thickness wouldn't be about a blonde hair those units could prolly last 20 years no problem. but money raking tells the engineers to design everything as flimsy and crappy as possible. so that shit keeps on beaking down. and guess what the root cause of all this bullshittery is; it is the financial system based on credit. every credit needs to be payed back +15% or so. but you can't create more money to pay back properly. so debt was found. and the global rise of debt is the reason EVERYTING goes to crap. because the samebunit for the same price gotta be crafted cheaper to get those extra % out of it to pay back dept. and penny pinching goes down to chip level where earlier the crappy/buggy/laggy chips were discharged in the waste bin nowadys the garbage is going to be sold too. and voilá you as the customer or a pro get a crappy product that never lasts more then 5 years. economy and financial sytem based on debt is disgusting. it destroys everything. quality, wealth, health of workers (via cheap materials that contain asbestos and stuff). all that to keep the dying finances going for a few more years. or you get war. war sets everything back to zero. everything is ruined and the economy flourishes. to the point where everything goes to shit again.
It is true that propane is becoming more and more common on air to water heat pumps in Europe. Now there are many monobloc models available and they're probably gonna replace totally the R32 ones. Monobloc means that all the gas stays in the unit outsides and only heated/cooled water gets into the building. For the systems where gas gets into the building though, like mini splits, hydronic split heat pumps, ducted and VRF though, it's all R32 (for VRF even still r410). There's only a midea mini split model using propane being sold but it's an incredibly niche product. I guess nobody wants to take the risk of bringing propane inside… We'll see how things will evolve. Will regulators and manufacturers develop a way to get reasonably safe indoor propane systems? Will it all become hydronic with the outdoor monobloc propane unit (but that's expensive and you need the space for all the water tanks…)? Will we see CO2 on smaller systems (VRF and mini split)?
Those guys are the best. I love the show and I always learn something new. I’m still somewhat new to hvac but no one is doing better reviews than them. There are several channels out there and all they do is talking. While they’re sharing valuable info, they lack to show the equipments.
I hope you guys will not engage reviewing and promoting cheap stuff like some others. I mean the “water hose on the condenser” lol so far so good keep the good stuff coming.
@@GWAC555please tell me about the lg compressor used by fujitsu general in there hot and cold model 2.5 ton.. DKT208MAH which has a capacity of 23100 btu only then how it make 28000 btu
I think the only notable things on the new unit... it is R-32... and the fan blade. The other changes are simply incremental engineering changes that could have happened on a revised R-410a unit. I do think that 15" of overlapped coil is rather odd. Why not more? Why not less? I suspect the driving concern is storing it in a warehouse and shipping; that allows the unit to be slightly smaller which helps in those circumstances. It really doesn't matter for installation. Now the fan blade. That is cool. There are have been two major advances in propellers in the past few decades and I was hoping that they would make their way to our systems: 1. Toroidal blades: this is the innovation I really want to see. they're much more efficient and even quieter, by far. 2. Serrated trailing edge: this is mostly considered a way to make the movement quieter, but noise is the expression of energy, so the quieter it is, the more efficient it is. I'd like to see both. EDIT: So, I replaced my old AC with an ASHP last year when it died. I am really happy with the system. It was just a drop in replacement... I kept my gas furnace as the air handler and for backup heat. A significant contributing factor to the failure of the AC was the zoning system and a failed damper... and a failed temperature sensor in the zoning board. So, I have been to get rid of all of that and just get a 2nd unit for the upstairs. I was initially rather concerned about R-32. I still have some reservations, but I think I am ready for one. I was going to get an identical R-410a ASHP, but with an air handler, since it would be net new. Since it will be for upstairs, I think R-32 makes a lot of sense. The biggest reservation I have about R-32, still, is having it next to my gas burner for the furnace. Since I won't have this for the upstairs unit, R-32 seems like a no brainer. I am in an area where we get extended periods of below zero (fahrenheit) temperatures in late January and early February, so backup heat is super important to me, even though my ASHP seemed to work fine (I had the thermostat set to burn gas when it was below 5F overnight so I didn't wake up to a freezing house in the event that I somehow messed with my install... it was fine). Perhaps my concerns will prove unwarranted with two separate units and the improved performance of R-32.
The whole flammability concern is absurd. Many houses have a natural gas meter near the compressor, but I guess the EPA never noticed those. I installed a 1.5 ton Della mini-split SEER 22 last Spring which came charged with R32. Made by Medea, like most Chinese brands. I bought to better use my solar energy, just heating and cooling the living areas, but the little guy cooled my whole 2200 ft2 house this summer, even on 110 F days. Good since my central AC died right after I got it running.
We need larger fans for more efficient air flow. More air per kW. We need stacked pump mediums. One medium in the circuit inside/outside and a second medium in an inside/inside configuration. It is heat pumps all the way from absolute zero to the heat of the sun.
Seemed like a sales pitch rather than an honest comparison. What are the operating differences? Are there any installation differences ? Don't just give me cosmetics.
Evaporator coils are crap today. I'm tired of changing them personally (thank God I'm about to retire), but I wonder if R-32 is flammable enough to ignite in a home where the evap coil pops a leak in a smokers house while they're smoking or lighting up?
I don't believe R-32 will blow up. R-290 (propane) & R600 (butane) definately are. I think R-32 needs a flame source to burn & cannot do a sustain burn by itself.
Half way across the globe when r22 phase out started in mid 2017s. In this market air conditioners have to be cheap to sell. Most sold 1.5ton or 18k btu mini splits are at 500-600$. 24k units are 800$. To make this price point some companies went with r600 or r290 in residential mini split air conditioning. And others increased their price to pay for r410. Then in 2020s r32 came in market and quickly became main stream. R32 has no unique problems. There are no fires but there is some incidents of compressor explosion and even few deaths. Some gmcc compressors like to go off like a grande and the shrapnel has killed 2 hvac techs recently. They found the rotor 12m away from the unit and the side of the unit was completely blown. Two of the man working on the unit got punctured literally like a frag grenade.
Quando un compressore esplode e il tecnico si trova li vicino è probabile che abbia caricato il gas o l'azoto a pressioni elevate magari non usando una valvola regolatrice. Non è una cosa probabile che il compressore perda pezzi al improvviso, ci deve essere una causa.
@@lordjaashin yes, as you can see from the face you will know where he comes from. There's no issue since 2015 that our country start switch to R32 (even in my develop country). I have GMCC R32 system and there's no issue
@@63wem you aren't wrong but, gas lines have a virtually endless supply into your house. Odorant doesn't do much good if only my dogs are home to smell it. An HVAC unit has a finite supply. Consider the fact that many package units are roof mounted and any leak is usually going into the air, not the house. I find more leaks in condensers than evaps. A split system is going to yield similar leak results as condensers are outdoor mounted. Aside from an errant screw or nail from a bonehead, how often do you see leaks in the lineset? I think the hype is over rated.
We could push towards monobloc outdoor air to water propane units and fan coils indoors, or higher safety for propane units (gas leak detectors aren't anything new), or increasing reliability and efficiency of CO2 systems… but the issue is that there are some interests in milking synthetic gas patent money and planned obsolescence
So many people are afraid of a flammable Refrigerant. We have Gass or LPG in our cars sitting on a tank full of it. What should happen on a Mini Split for instance? First you need the right Ratio Gas and Air to get it ignited, second you need a spark, I doubt that there is enough gas for an explosion wants you have a tiny leak. The indoor Airhandler got only a fan and motors for the wings all controlled by a magnetic field no spark. Only the outside unit could produce a spark inside the compressor once the windings will burn or shorten but because it's a hermetically sealed system with no air present nothing will happen. Correct me if I'm wrong. I swapped a lot of R134a to LPG or pure Propan systems still running needs less Amps got more output. Rgds from Germany
I believe the sensor would be located inside the furnace or air handler. At least that’s what a Goodman firmware engineer told me. He also told me that the sensor was required by the state of California.
Had a daikin dealer give me some estimates today for 410 and 32 fit systems. they have an incentive now for the 410. im hoping to be able to hold off and get this 32 system you are showing. why didn't the rest of the industry use 32?
So even bigger units? There are called mini splits for a reason. Most times the heads are installed in areas where you dont have access to the side of the unit. Having the board slide out on the old style is much better. That design will cause me not to sell Daikin in many situations. Why are we fixing something that wasnt broken? So can we just purge r32 and 454b rather than recover it? The coils will leak like 410a so it really wouldnt matter.
it's not called mini split because you can put it in shelf 🤦♀️ it's called a minisplit because you don't have to install a whole ass VRV system with 10 evapcoils in your house.
There will never be tests done like that in the west. They are already sold on selling these on the market. It's what the epa decided. That is law now. Who cares about people dying, right? (Sarcasm).
Please find out is there are any compressor blasting incident in R32 units, because recently 2 incidents occurred, one in City Faisalabad Baber shop Split unit blasted and 5 people died, another incident occurred in Karachi city where 1 person was badly injured and 2 rooms were badly damaged. Bomb disposal unit report told that R290 and R32 gas was used in air conditioning unit, leaking refrigerant ignited and exploded. Please do some research and made a video on this, what causes an ac compressor to blast? R32 units blasts or not
Like I said previously: bro do u even nitro check? U know ur supposed to pressurize ur system before u vacuum and release charge. U said it urself, "leaks". Yea bro when ur copper is now razor thin u better believe ur checking for leaks. Shit will happen with r290. Also check in with ur installer, have him write ur psi + ambi temp to ensure u have 0 leaks.
My old central ac just stop working. R-22 condenser with a date code of 1989. Compressor finally went. Be hard pressed to get that longevity out of a new unit
Hi, there is nothing to compare. this 2 unit are different form design pov so you can not compare it. one have additional coil , the thinkers was change so what co compare. the true compare is under test same condition : current load , time to reach temperature set , compressor modulation , fan modulation specification. in your presentation there is no specification of the unit, i was expected to have the specification place side by side. PS: makin this movie in 4k is without any add value so i don't know way you spend this time to make it. i prefer to have more specification available and true comparison not a presentation.
The mandate R410a and R32 requires a lot more pressure to run. Most Evap. coil had a considerable less lifetime compared with R22. You’re lucky to get even 7 Yrs without leakage.
January 1st 2025 all Residential and light commercial Manufactures will be utilizing either R-32 or R454B here in the US. None of them will be using R290.
I want to know about o general hot and cold model 2.5 ton unit in which lg compressor is used.. DKT208MAH which has a btu 23100 how it create 28000 as company mentioned in the brochure
@@GWAC555 Thanks for the reply.. But how it make the higher amount of btu when the total maximum capacity of the compressor is less than the rated btu of system
Ur right but let's take it even further: majority splits that aren't VRF aren't brazed connections. These guys are just cross threading and going, how hard is it to nitro check a new system
why does it feel that they are putting more computers into something that is made just to cool or heat a space? eventually it will need windows updates #sarcasm
R32 unit is considered as just like a bomb in the Room due to over 4 incidents occured due to AC blasts using R32 gas. No buddy Wana buy R32 filled Split AC of any brand.
The new regulation in the USA starting January 2025 will require all AC and Heat pumps to utilize Low GWP refrigerants. R-32 and R454B will be most common refrigerants used.
if properly built nothing blasts. blasts happen after crappy unknowledged wannabe techs fumble AC units. and that seems to happen like every day in india and pakistan.
I will never ever by for my home any flammable Refrigerant when leak can cause extreme fire that Refrigerant is extremely highly Combustable , flammable and like time bomb I request not to buy any chilling or freezing unit which are flammable gas like : R-32, R-290 , R-600a and stories goes on and on I am Refrigeration Technician and not recommend to use such split units for home
I have a lot of experiences with all types of refrigeration units in the middle east where temps get up to 130 F. When I had R134A units there they would lock up on the really hot days. These units run all day and all night and the only time you see condensate is very early in the morning because the air is so dry. I have used R410 there which is ok but nothing is as good as R22. On our military bases they probably still use R22 because they have tons of it. I don't know about R32 but anytime the government says they are going to make it better they do not. Especially after the four years of green fanatics we just had who do not look ahead for cause and effects as long as they get the credit on their watch that is all they care about. I kept my R22 unit as long as I could and I will keep my R410 unit as long as I can. This is more about "we have a better mouse trap" for someone to pocket a lot of money. I could be wrong but I doubt it not with our government's record on transparency and honesty from either party.
There is no controversy its all business. i cant stand this Regulations R32 refrigerant companies have to change tools which means spend money. I CANT STAND THIS CRAP
why iam not suprise ... with all the crazy things they do... R32 has being around in europe for the last 5 or 6 years with not issue .. they do have strick riles who install it
Hahahaha. 4k😂😂😂 why are you doing it in 4k and getting excited about it so much thatyou have to put it in the title?😂 You have wasted CO2 by using more time and energy to process this 4k capture FOR NOTHING😂
Please find out and reply with facts about units blast and gas leak blast in rooms killing 16 people in pakistan due to R32 gas been used in those split units recently
Can you please contact our channel via email. We. Like to hear more about it. Perhaps you can send us some related articles. (HVAC Talkshow & Review Team)
I would add there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of R-32 Mini Splits that have been installed and sometimes installed by unqualified people that have been working fine for years. There have been explosions in Pakistan for years just Google. My condolences to all the people who lost a love one in the blast mentioned above. If installed by a qualified technician and maintenance is performed with cleanings and inspections every 6 months I would not worry.
Ah, My friend's coworker was just blasting the compressor a while back. It was an R32 unit and how was it blasting? He was putting an R22 refrigerant in them. Not surprised! I mean R22 R410 R32 can go boom from improper practice handling the refrigerant.
I just put a brand new Amana A/C and I was wondering is it normal for the ac runs 10 to 15 minutes and cuts off for 5 minutes and runs again. I set it to 77.
I recently installed an R-32 mini split (24k btu) in my finished basement to replace an R-410a unit. I currently live in the southeast USA. When it is 95°F outside with a humidity of 70+, the vent temperature was 44°F on R-410a and now 36°F on R-32. The R-410a system used about 915 watts running and the new system uses only 509 watts.
The new R-32 unit is so efficient that I have it running on just 3 solar panels most of the time. Also, I have an 8 year old window AC in my garage that uses R-32 and have never had an issue.
The flammability of A2L can't possibly be more than my natural gas lines running all over my home for the water heaters, central furnace and cooktop.
Indeed I installed a r32 mini split in my room and I felt the difference right away much colder the air and uses less power
Dear brother I m From Pakistan and there are many accidents of R32 Ac Blast and more then 32 people Died please dont use R32....... Thanks
I have one on my boat .
This unit only use 600watt max in the winter for heating .
Love that i have done this
@@PGNOOB-GAMERYT That's likely because those people were trying to hack up an old air conditioner for parts.
bro do u even braze with nitro? Ur only gonna die if u hack. Seen plenty of ME AC accidents. U guys don't leak check lmao
My R22 is still running from 1967. Its amazing and crazy cold.
its really crazy
لدي جهاز سانيو موديل ١٩٨٥ لايزال يعمل
exactly, and they know they are not making money with something built to last
Mines almost 30 years old, I've lived in this house for nearly 25 years and I can't remember it ever having major problems. If it ever had a condenser motor changed then it was YEARS ago that I couldn't even recall, much less a simple capacitor.
I hope you have solar.
"More efficient and more reliable"
Where have you guys been past 50 years? Older machines used to run for 30 years easily 20. Today "new" systems break down in 5-10 years needing parts.. Often expensive parts. Things are not made better at all. They are made to fail. This is common with nearly everything we buy today. All made to be replaced. Manufactures did not forget how to make quality products they just refuse. Some handful of companies own nearly everything.
Modern mantra spend $1000 to save $100 when it has to go to landfill as software and circuits cannot be diagnosed or fixed in a economic way
The worst are VRV systems they need specialist training and become landfill very fast especially if too many techs touch it
I have a 5 year unit and it already needed a Evaporator. my old one R-22 Trane lasted 30 years without mayor problems.
And going from two boards (controls/inverter) to one means you now have to replace a much more expensive single board rather than the one (most commonly the inverter) if either the control or inverter fails.
previously hardware were designed mechanically, with minimal electronics in mind. Now electronics play a big part. A small blown capacitor or chip might affect the electronics we have today. Rendering the circuit board to be replaced as it makes the whole machine unusable. As we know, circuit boards are complicated designs squeezed into a small piece of board. 10 years down the road, manufacturers won't be printing out the same board as it's not economically viable to make the same circuit board 10 years down the road with new designs in mind.
I'm not sure if my cheap units are Daikin or Midea built, but they have R32 refrigerants. I bought and installed 2 12k 120V systems for my fairly open 1200 sq/ft. home. Winter time had 4 days where it didn't get above 15f, and summer had a few days of 108f. House temp has remained a constant 69f. The best project I've ever undertaken.
You would have had similar results with all the other type of refrigerants.
cheap crap is deffo midea.... that garbage gets thrown after you if you don't buy it for 3 bucks. 😂
and if anything breaks you never get replacement parts because the chinese crap factory makes a living off selling AC units. not off the aftermarket. so there you go. cheap crap rendered a total loss as soon as something goes south.
best advice is heaving all PCB's for outdoor and a whole indoor unit of every kind that is installed. otherwise you're EFFFED. dry in the rear end.
When I started in the trade, R 22 was 30 bucks a 30lb bottle
I went to a supply house looking for r22 and they said it was nearly $600 now for a 30lbs tank
@@garycarter7087 wtf I'm in Texas dat shit 800 for 25 pounds of r22
which year was that ?
i filled up my VRV with R454b which was factory charged with 410A... All good no issues here. Machine running even more smooth. You should try this one time on the channel.
Jesús it specifically says not to mix refrigerants, nonetheless under pressure
Hey Chris! Glad to see you on here!!!!
Hey hey!
Encouraging video as I am looking to change one of my package units that is quite old to a new mini-split system. Living in the Arizona desert, any refrigerant described as colder is a good thing. Thank you!
The best refrigerant on earth is pure water
Thanks for the tips my fellow HVAC technicians ❤❤❤
Today I did my first R32 mini split system at my company here in Southern California. R410A is officially over. We aren’t going to be buying any more inverters with 410A
What is the pricing difference between the 2 types if same seer 2 rating? Thanks
The HVAC industry wasn’t ready for A2Ls when it launched outside the US, and it still isn’t ready today, the only circumstance when the refrigerants flammability is an issue is when techs aren’t using key best practices when brazing including;
recovering into a vacuum, purging with nitrogen after recovering, CUTTING OUT ALL COMPONENTS NOT SWEATING OUT and flowing nitrogen when actively brazing.
The problem is 99% of Techs aren’t doing these practices, which is going to result in igniting the refrigerant when brazing under some circumstances.
Otherwise A2L refrigerants like R32 and R454B are fine.
You should always use nitrogen when brazing to make sure you are having a clean atmosphere inside the pipes... Secondly oil also can be burned. Everyone forgets that. Its not very flammable but when brazing you will have this issue too.
Always vacuum before working on these machines. break vacuum with nitrogen and then open the machine.
Them techs gunna learn to study somehow lol.
I'm so glad you did this video I learned alot
It runs on high pressure just like 410a so you’re still going to have leaky coils, only differences the new refrigerant cost three times as much , in Europe they went with propane which is low pressure just like the old R22, And the propane air conditioners have sensors, so if it detects leaking propane, it shuts the system down
not high or low pressure is the problem. the crappy copper tubes that you could read the newspaper through is tze actual problem. that shit rots in a blink and then you gotta recover tze refrigerant, braze in a new one, draw vacuum re-charge it.
if only the tube wall thickness wouldn't be about a blonde hair those units could prolly last 20 years no problem. but money raking tells the engineers to design everything as flimsy and crappy as possible. so that shit keeps on beaking down.
and guess what the root cause of all this bullshittery is; it is the financial system based on credit. every credit needs to be payed back +15% or so. but you can't create more money to pay back properly. so debt was found. and the global rise of debt is the reason EVERYTING goes to crap. because the samebunit for the same price gotta be crafted cheaper to get those extra % out of it to pay back dept.
and penny pinching goes down to chip level where earlier the crappy/buggy/laggy chips were discharged in the waste bin nowadys the garbage is going to be sold too. and voilá you as the customer or a pro get a crappy product that never lasts more then 5 years.
economy and financial sytem based on debt is disgusting. it destroys everything. quality, wealth, health of workers (via cheap materials that contain asbestos and stuff).
all that to keep the dying finances going for a few more years. or you get war. war sets everything back to zero. everything is ruined and the economy flourishes. to the point where everything goes to shit again.
It is true that propane is becoming more and more common on air to water heat pumps in Europe. Now there are many monobloc models available and they're probably gonna replace totally the R32 ones. Monobloc means that all the gas stays in the unit outsides and only heated/cooled water gets into the building. For the systems where gas gets into the building though, like mini splits, hydronic split heat pumps, ducted and VRF though, it's all R32 (for VRF even still r410). There's only a midea mini split model using propane being sold but it's an incredibly niche product. I guess nobody wants to take the risk of bringing propane inside…
We'll see how things will evolve. Will regulators and manufacturers develop a way to get reasonably safe indoor propane systems? Will it all become hydronic with the outdoor monobloc propane unit (but that's expensive and you need the space for all the water tanks…)? Will we see CO2 on smaller systems (VRF and mini split)?
BS, most of Europe is still installing R410A or R32. There’s little to no options for propane in higher end systems.
Tell me you’ve never worked on hvac without telling me you’ve never worked on hvac
Those guys are the best. I love the show and I always learn something new. I’m still somewhat new to hvac but no one is doing better reviews than them. There are several channels out there and all they do is talking. While they’re sharing valuable info, they lack to show the equipments.
Our pleasure!
I hope you guys will not engage reviewing and promoting cheap stuff like some others. I mean the “water hose on the condenser” lol so far so good keep the good stuff coming.
Totally not!
R290 is the future
Love to see more mini split videos. Especially a comparison of popular mini splits.
Noted!
@@GWAC555please tell me about the lg compressor used by fujitsu general in there hot and cold model 2.5 ton.. DKT208MAH which has a capacity of 23100 btu only then how it make 28000 btu
I think the only notable things on the new unit... it is R-32... and the fan blade. The other changes are simply incremental engineering changes that could have happened on a revised R-410a unit. I do think that 15" of overlapped coil is rather odd. Why not more? Why not less? I suspect the driving concern is storing it in a warehouse and shipping; that allows the unit to be slightly smaller which helps in those circumstances. It really doesn't matter for installation.
Now the fan blade. That is cool. There are have been two major advances in propellers in the past few decades and I was hoping that they would make their way to our systems:
1. Toroidal blades: this is the innovation I really want to see. they're much more efficient and even quieter, by far.
2. Serrated trailing edge: this is mostly considered a way to make the movement quieter, but noise is the expression of energy, so the quieter it is, the more efficient it is.
I'd like to see both.
EDIT: So, I replaced my old AC with an ASHP last year when it died. I am really happy with the system. It was just a drop in replacement... I kept my gas furnace as the air handler and for backup heat. A significant contributing factor to the failure of the AC was the zoning system and a failed damper... and a failed temperature sensor in the zoning board. So, I have been to get rid of all of that and just get a 2nd unit for the upstairs.
I was initially rather concerned about R-32. I still have some reservations, but I think I am ready for one. I was going to get an identical R-410a ASHP, but with an air handler, since it would be net new. Since it will be for upstairs, I think R-32 makes a lot of sense. The biggest reservation I have about R-32, still, is having it next to my gas burner for the furnace. Since I won't have this for the upstairs unit, R-32 seems like a no brainer. I am in an area where we get extended periods of below zero (fahrenheit) temperatures in late January and early February, so backup heat is super important to me, even though my ASHP seemed to work fine (I had the thermostat set to burn gas when it was below 5F overnight so I didn't wake up to a freezing house in the event that I somehow messed with my install... it was fine). Perhaps my concerns will prove unwarranted with two separate units and the improved performance of R-32.
The whole flammability concern is absurd. Many houses have a natural gas meter near the compressor, but I guess the EPA never noticed those. I installed a 1.5 ton Della mini-split SEER 22 last Spring which came charged with R32. Made by Medea, like most Chinese brands. I bought to better use my solar energy, just heating and cooling the living areas, but the little guy cooled my whole 2200 ft2 house this summer, even on 110 F days. Good since my central AC died right after I got it running.
Can a R410A system be serviced with R32 if at some point in the future R410A goes the way of R22?
R-32 is NOT a drop in replacement.
R22 is still available. R410a isn’t going anywhere.
@@fiehlsport HVAC contractors charing $100/lb for R-22. I presume the price will soar with R410a.
Recommended Daikin AC that uses R32 or R410? please help me answer because I want to install AC.
We need larger fans for more efficient air flow. More air per kW.
We need stacked pump mediums. One medium in the circuit inside/outside and a second medium in an inside/inside configuration. It is heat pumps all the way from absolute zero to the heat of the sun.
Impressed! Great info
Seemed like a sales pitch rather than an honest comparison. What are the operating differences? Are there any installation differences ? Don't just give me cosmetics.
R410a systems are being phased out rapidly. We only trying to point out some minor differences.
Roger, sales pitch.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Evaporator coils are crap today. I'm tired of changing them personally (thank God I'm about to retire), but I wonder if R-32 is flammable enough to ignite in a home where the evap coil pops a leak in a smokers house while they're smoking or lighting up?
I don't believe R-32 will blow up. R-290 (propane) & R600 (butane) definately are. I think R-32 needs a flame source to burn & cannot do a sustain burn by itself.
@@guytech7310excellent information !
R32 needs over 600°C to burn and dies off without a constant ignition source.
I don’t think mini splits need to have leak sensors
Half way across the globe when r22 phase out started in mid 2017s. In this market air conditioners have to be cheap to sell. Most sold 1.5ton or 18k btu mini splits are at 500-600$. 24k units are 800$. To make this price point some companies went with r600 or r290 in residential mini split air conditioning. And others increased their price to pay for r410.
Then in 2020s r32 came in market and quickly became main stream. R32 has no unique problems. There are no fires but there is some incidents of compressor explosion and even few deaths. Some gmcc compressors like to go off like a grande and the shrapnel has killed 2 hvac techs recently. They found the rotor 12m away from the unit and the side of the unit was completely blown. Two of the man working on the unit got punctured literally like a frag grenade.
Sounds like skill issue in your country
Where this happened? India? I saw a video one time I guess.
Quando un compressore esplode e il tecnico si trova li vicino è probabile che abbia caricato il gas o l'azoto a pressioni elevate magari non usando una valvola regolatrice. Non è una cosa probabile che il compressore perda pezzi al improvviso, ci deve essere una causa.
@@lordjaashin yes, as you can see from the face you will know where he comes from. There's no issue since 2015 that our country start switch to R32 (even in my develop country). I have GMCC R32 system and there's no issue
Nice video! Subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
Being afraid of flammable refrigerant is odd considering you already have natural gas in your house most likely
Natural gas has a detectable oder. Also has an operating pressure of around 10 inches. not 400 psi.
@@63wem you aren't wrong but, gas lines have a virtually endless supply into your house. Odorant doesn't do much good if only my dogs are home to smell it.
An HVAC unit has a finite supply. Consider the fact that many package units are roof mounted and any leak is usually going into the air, not the house. I find more leaks in condensers than evaps.
A split system is going to yield similar leak results as condensers are outdoor mounted.
Aside from an errant screw or nail from a bonehead, how often do you see leaks in the lineset?
I think the hype is over rated.
@@63wemwhy would you measure gas pressure in dick lengh ?
We could push towards monobloc outdoor air to water propane units and fan coils indoors, or higher safety for propane units (gas leak detectors aren't anything new), or increasing reliability and efficiency of CO2 systems… but the issue is that there are some interests in milking synthetic gas patent money and planned obsolescence
So many people are afraid of a flammable Refrigerant. We have Gass or LPG in our cars sitting on a tank full of it. What should happen on a Mini Split for instance? First you need the right Ratio Gas and Air to get it ignited, second you need a spark, I doubt that there is enough gas for an explosion wants you have a tiny leak. The indoor Airhandler got only a fan and motors for the wings all controlled by a magnetic field no spark. Only the outside unit could produce a spark inside the compressor once the windings will burn or shorten but because it's a hermetically sealed system with no air present nothing will happen. Correct me if I'm wrong. I swapped a lot of R134a to LPG or pure Propan systems still running needs less Amps got more output. Rgds from Germany
Yes, what about the R32 gas sensor?
I believe the sensor would be located inside the furnace or air handler. At least that’s what a Goodman firmware engineer told me. He also told me that the sensor was required by the state of California.
Plz tell me about R410 A .i am in depression nd loose my daily activities with depression
Doesn't Daikin have the patent on R32?
They did, but they have released it so other manufacturers can use it.
Had a daikin dealer give me some estimates today for 410 and 32 fit systems. they have an incentive now for the 410. im hoping to be able to hold off and get this 32 system you are showing. why didn't the rest of the industry use 32?
GWP on the R454 is lower
@@GWAC555 GWP is arbitrary and unscientific.
So even bigger units? There are called mini splits for a reason. Most times the heads are installed in areas where you dont have access to the side of the unit. Having the board slide out on the old style is much better. That design will cause me not to sell Daikin in many situations. Why are we fixing something that wasnt broken? So can we just purge r32 and 454b rather than recover it? The coils will leak like 410a so it really wouldnt matter.
Interesting...
it's not called mini split because you can put it in shelf 🤦♀️
it's called a minisplit because you don't have to install a whole ass VRV system with 10 evapcoils in your house.
More important at what temperature (cold) does each start to lose efficiency.........
Where is the leak detection sensor
The R32 equivalent we reviewed did not have a refrigerant gas sensor.
It's only required if the system has a secondary heat source, like heat strips or a gas furnace.
@@TofuInc Well said! Thank you
@@TofuInc4 pounds or less
do a real split sys comp. Not a minisplit
I was hoping to see how quickly they pulled the same space down to setpoint. Im an HVAC tech and I didn't actually see an example of performance
Says the R32 is more efficient, but the R32 unit is beefier than the R410 unit???
When we say more efficient we can only go by the SEER2 rating.
Is there any test work done on R32 gas releasing all gas in room and than ignite. This is what happened in recent accidents in asia Pakistan
There will never be tests done like that in the west. They are already sold on selling these on the market. It's what the epa decided. That is law now. Who cares about people dying, right? (Sarcasm).
shoddy workmanship is the rootcause of compressor bursts and all kinds of crap in areas like india, thailand, pakistan ect.
it's all about money, nothing to do with environmentally friendly "my beep", sick of this manipulator wake up people
Jaquar heat pump E02 lack of refrigerant ERROR
HOW TO FIX PROBLEM
Please find out is there are any compressor blasting incident in R32 units, because recently 2 incidents occurred, one in City Faisalabad Baber shop Split unit blasted and 5 people died, another incident occurred in Karachi city where 1 person was badly injured and 2 rooms were badly damaged. Bomb disposal unit report told that R290 and R32 gas was used in air conditioning unit, leaking refrigerant ignited and exploded. Please do some research and made a video on this, what causes an ac compressor to blast? R32 units blasts or not
Like I said previously: bro do u even nitro check? U know ur supposed to pressurize ur system before u vacuum and release charge. U said it urself, "leaks". Yea bro when ur copper is now razor thin u better believe ur checking for leaks. Shit will happen with r290. Also check in with ur installer, have him write ur psi + ambi temp to ensure u have 0 leaks.
This add has been Brought to you by EPA lobbyists.
So what's the truth about these two?
Which one is better? Didn't say. Which one is more efficient? Didn't say.
Which one costs less? Didn't say.
Sir which is the safest gas for ac inverters
So the R32 system will be cheaper to run?
Negative
yes
The efficiency rating of this R-32 system is higher than this 410A system so yes.
Some people are going to go from r22 straight to r32.
My old central ac just stop working. R-22 condenser with a date code of 1989. Compressor finally went. Be hard pressed to get that longevity out of a new unit
Hi, there is nothing to compare. this 2 unit are different form design pov so you can not compare it. one have additional coil , the thinkers was change so what co compare. the true compare is under test same condition : current load , time to reach temperature set , compressor modulation , fan modulation specification. in your presentation there is no specification of the unit, i was expected to have the specification place side by side.
PS: makin this movie in 4k is without any add value so i don't know way you spend this time to make it. i prefer to have more specification available and true comparison not a presentation.
The fan may just be a newer design not really related to the r32
We believe its for efficiency and noise reduction. It could contribute to maintaining cooling and heating efficiency on very hot and very cold days.
R410a Caused controversy?
My mini split has 410a.
A lot of people blame all the leaky systems on the higher pressures of 410a. Also people generally don't like change.
Something like that! Well said!
@@TofuInc R410a and R32 operating pressures are almost exactly the same. The problems come with not using best practices for installation.
I don't like an upside down board you went the wrong way
The mandate R410a and R32 requires a lot more pressure to run. Most Evap. coil had a considerable less lifetime compared with R22. You’re lucky to get even 7 Yrs without leakage.
The industry has made significant improvements with this in the last 5 years. This is also effecting HVAC contractors in a negative way.
@@GWAC555 Do you mean microchannel? It's even worse.
I’ll just keep using propane
That's a way to look at it!
r290 is the game not r32
January 1st 2025 all Residential and light commercial Manufactures will be utilizing either R-32 or R454B here in the US. None of them will be using R290.
@@GWAC555 Here in Europe, R32 is being fazzed out and being replaced by R290!
What do you mean by this video.. Europe is basically canceling R32 very soon
They are basing that on GWP which is unscientific and stupid like everything else coming from European leftist governments...
I have a problem with too much electronics on appliances.
R-454B?
I want to know about o general hot and cold model 2.5 ton unit in which lg compressor is used.. DKT208MAH which has a btu 23100 how it create 28000 as company mentioned in the brochure
Kindly revert
The compressor BTU's does not determine the BTU's of the system. Generally the compressor BTU's are smaller that the actual BTU's of the system.
@@GWAC555 Thanks for the reply.. But how it make the higher amount of btu when the total maximum capacity of the compressor is less than the rated btu of system
Please reply, I'm eagerly waiting for your positive response
Please reply how it make more btu or kw of cooling then the rated btu produced by compressor
Mixed messages, you cant talk about refrigerant and then say don’t worry because everyone but the US is using it😂
No offense,but why do americans have always weird measurements ?
Like tonnage... we have BTUs or Kws... :( it's confusing.
They are so behind. They are now switching to R32 while europe already starting to switch to R290.
in pakistan R32 AIR CONDITIONER BLASH IN A HOUSE AND 14 PEOPLE DIED FROM IT DURING HE HOUSE IS COMPLETLY ON FIRE FROM BLAST
Skill issue
DONT FUCK AROUND WITH STUFF YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE ABOUT IN INDIA AND OTHER 3RD WORLD PLACES THEN.
ALSO STOP SCREAMING IN CAPITAL !
Ur right but let's take it even further: majority splits that aren't VRF aren't brazed connections. These guys are just cross threading and going, how hard is it to nitro check a new system
why does it feel that they are putting more computers into something that is made just to cool or heat a space?
eventually it will need windows updates #sarcasm
Still have a fridge with R12 working after more than 30 years... Just saying ...
amazing now i jist need to the money :/
ban assault refrigerant.
R32 unit is considered as just like a bomb in the Room due to over 4 incidents occured due to AC blasts using R32 gas. No buddy Wana buy R32 filled Split AC of any brand.
The new regulation in the USA starting January 2025 will require all AC and Heat pumps to utilize Low GWP refrigerants. R-32 and R454B will be most common refrigerants used.
if properly built nothing blasts.
blasts happen after crappy unknowledged wannabe techs fumble AC units. and that seems to happen like every day in india and pakistan.
Blast happened in pakistan with R 32 ...
I will never ever by for my home any flammable Refrigerant when leak can cause extreme fire that Refrigerant is extremely highly Combustable , flammable and like time bomb
I request not to buy any chilling or freezing unit which are flammable gas like : R-32, R-290 , R-600a and stories goes on and on
I am Refrigeration Technician and not recommend to use such split units for home
Nobody buys R32 if you can buy R290.
This is the reason why....
ua-cam.com/video/I04H_irTH24/v-deo.html
I have a lot of experiences with all types of refrigeration units in the middle east where temps get up to 130 F. When I had R134A units there they would lock up on the really hot days. These units run all day and all night and the only time you see condensate is very early in the morning because the air is so dry. I have used R410 there which is ok but nothing is as good as R22. On our military bases they probably still use R22 because they have tons of it. I don't know about R32 but anytime the government says they are going to make it better they do not. Especially after the four years of green fanatics we just had who do not look ahead for cause and effects as long as they get the credit on their watch that is all they care about. I kept my R22 unit as long as I could and I will keep my R410 unit as long as I can. This is more about "we have a better mouse trap" for someone to pocket a lot of money. I could be wrong but I doubt it not with our government's record on transparency and honesty from either party.
Marketing strategy,, not good for costumer
There is no controversy its all business. i cant stand this Regulations R32 refrigerant companies have to change tools which means spend money. I CANT STAND THIS CRAP
in pakistan r32 blast in a home and 14 people died from this flamable gas
why iam not suprise ... with all the crazy things they do... R32 has being around in europe for the last 5 or 6 years with not issue .. they do have strick riles who install it
Why do I feel gross after this? no price comparison, no longevity results, and I feel like I'm being sold snake oil.
They are pretty much the same cost. Daikin 410A systems are being phased out and very hard to get now.
White Jose Lee Kimberly White Ruth
No difference at all....
Hahahaha. 4k😂😂😂 why are you doing it in 4k and getting excited about it so much thatyou have to put it in the title?😂 You have wasted CO2 by using more time and energy to process this 4k capture FOR NOTHING😂
Propaganda
Please find out and reply with facts about units blast and gas leak blast in rooms killing 16 people in pakistan due to R32 gas been used in those split units recently
Can you please contact our channel via email. We. Like to hear more about it. Perhaps you can send us some related articles. (HVAC Talkshow & Review Team)
I would add there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of R-32 Mini Splits that have been installed and sometimes installed by unqualified people that have been working fine for years. There have been explosions in Pakistan for years just Google. My condolences to all the people who lost a love one in the blast mentioned above. If installed by a qualified technician and maintenance is performed with cleanings and inspections every 6 months I would not worry.
That was a leakage of a nearby gas line period end of story.
Lololol shoshal media truth 😂😂😂
Ah, My friend's coworker was just blasting the compressor a while back. It was an R32 unit and how was it blasting? He was putting an R22 refrigerant in them. Not surprised!
I mean R22 R410 R32 can go boom from improper practice handling the refrigerant.
I just put a brand new Amana A/C and I was wondering is it normal for the ac runs 10 to 15 minutes and cuts off for 5 minutes and runs again. I set it to 77.
When I started in the trade, R 22 was 30 bucks a 30lb bottle
Oh yah! And free R22 with a 3Ton Goodman system that cost $800