The REAL REASON JonTron left the Game Grumps
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- On June 25th 2013 the popular and well loved lets play channel “Game Grumps” announced something shocking. One half of the duo, Jon Jafari otherwise known as JonTron would be leaving the channel forever.
This story as far as the internet goes is ancient, at 10 years old.
It’s a story about an innocuous Let’s play channel called Game Grumps and how one event would result in the biggest mystery ever seen on the history of UA-cam.
And now as we pass 10 years of this channel paving the way for Game Grumps, We’ll attempt to unravel the rabbit hole that started with a simple question;
What was the real reason JonTron left the Game Grumps?
Cassette elsewhere:
Twitter: / itscassette
Twitch: / itscassette
![Best of Game Grumps - Jon Mentions! [Compilation of JonTron mentions]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t4vU-MDM9iA/mqdefault.jpg)
Just wanted to take the op to say thanks so much for watching this folkes! This video has been a LONG time coming with over a year going into it. I hear from a lot of you that the quality of the mic is bad in the intro. I agree and I'm sorry about that. I wish YT would let me replace the audio track with a fixed one but alas, I cannot. This only lasts a few mins however in the intro and I've taken great care to make sure future uploads don't exhibit this behaviour. My apologies 😊
Right now I'm listening to it right now but I hope it's not like the same thing that I already heard from other videos like this
@Haruka Takahashi i'll read your comment in a minute, but I hope it's not like other comments on videos like this
@@Justin_Roiland Rick and Morty?
@Haruka Takahashi yep, it's me :)
Man for the first video on the channel, this was quite a watch. Can't wait to see more stuff from you bro, cheers!
Danny saying he lost interest after Jon left is probably my favorite joke to come out of Game Grumps
Hahaha I feel that, Mine has got to be updog for the giggling fit alone :D
@@itscassette I love the battle kid boss rant! xD
My favorite moment was the giggle fit they went into playing that Santa sled game
Give your dad a Faygo for me
seeing that pfp and that name makes me happy.
It's still so crazy to me that Jon was only on the show for less than a year.
Jon's charisma is powerful.
Which is why it’s so mind blowing that people are so fixated on Jon leaving the show, and about portraying him as some helpless victim. He was there to help get things going, but Game Grumps is the product of Arin and Danny. Jon is doing just fine - and as the video points out, doing even better - with his own projects.
@@tgs7515 I found that a little odd to point out. Like YT subs is a big indication of success? Both sides seem happy and successful, and good on them for it. The vid's e-peen measuring comes across as petty to me.
It's weird for me. I was definitely one of those people who didn't initially like Danny and thought the show would never be the same. Now? If I go back to old Jon episodes they usually make me cringe. Both Jon and Arin - but especially Jon - said some really gross, juvenile things that I don't find nearly as funny in my late 30s as I did in my 20s.
@@tgs7515 looking at it that way saying Jon was trying to help things grow as a friend to then leave because he believed his friend is gonna be fine is a nice way to look at it but I feel it’s more underlying issues than just that but that could be part of it too
I think what's wild is that 10 years later, we're still talking about this. Everything around the situation is just so bizarre.
From a scope of time perspective, it certainly seems like a terrible decision. I understand staying silent while Danny transitioned into the new role, but after he became adored by fans and cemented himself with a longer tenure in Jon they should have cleared the air. At this point, I can see speculation continuing to haunt them for another 10 years.
That's the power of parasocial relationships.
It's internet history. Should be remembered in my opinion
Egoprator is a weirdo. Fans of a product aren't stupid, people understand relationship dynamics and they don't like being lied to. When something fishy happens and the crew try to sweep it under the rug and gaslight fans, it becomes insulting and people start wondering why they would feel the need to do that if nothing fishy was happening.
Just don't be a manipulative horrible person While also trying to control everyone's perception of reality like some illusory warlock and the Streisand effect will likely pass over whatever petty drama you have
Same as The Completonist split, the NDA tells us all we need to know about who's in the wrong.
I remember watching Jon and never touching the Grumps so when Arin appeared in the Star Wars video I was like "Hey, it's Egoraptor! How random!" and completely missed the drama
Did you see the Malkovich videos? Ego was in those before GG started
I remember watching the flex tape videos completely unaware that Jon Tron was into eugenics
I only wanted JonTron, but miss his video game content.
Ditto. COMPLETELY went over my head! My sister was a die-hard JonTron fan, so when I started watching Danny was already in and I was like "Oh, I finally watched that gamegrumps show you keep talking about. That Arin and Dan-" and she flipped out at me for mentioning the 'fake grump'. It wasn't until Jon's racist comments that we were able to talk about the show again and she was over it. 🤣
@@thingsihate_3333 Get a life if talking about Racism in the western anglosphere. What about affirmative action and diversity hires are real realism
The shot of Ross and Holly still together in Starcade was a flashbang to my brain man holy shit.
Laughs in foreboding 👀
@@itscassette maaan i remember all that drama. still cant believe a dime like holly fucked that gamerdude that looks like he has a beak
@@itscassette wait
Wow, i'd forgotten about her. that whole debacle was a shitstorm and a half. That thing with her and ProJared was a wild month of unravelings
Wait they're not together anymore? What did I miss?
Don't mix business with friendship, a classic tale.
Tale as old as time! Thanks so much for watching ❤️
And don't lend family money when you don't know they're 100% good for it.
ive also heard to not attemp mixing those things with arin hansen unless you want a bad time
fartners
Sure, but Danny and Arin have always had a really strong friendship and have been doing relatively well business wise
I'll never forget going to a 2 week summer camp with no internet whatsoever. Getting back and everything with steam train, Jon leaving had happened. I couldn't believe it :(
Damn.
my exact experience
@@thatcityboy73 same!! although I recall somehow having my phone with me, scrolling through tons of posts trying to understand :(
That's rough, holy heck. If a favorite channel of mine exploded while I was gone, I'd be pretty upset. I'm a more recent Grumps viewer, having only been watching for the past two or so years, and I do really like the dynamic of Arin and Dan. Maybe if I watched some of the older stuff, then my perspective would change, but I'm satisfied with the current arrangement.
I can relate, I just moved out on my own. No internet except at work, finding out that Jon left was a lot to take in while working midnight shifts at McDonalds
While it’s easy to make Arin the villain for being very invested in game grumps as a brand, I remember Arin’s stories about growing up dirt poor. To Arin, a constant paycheck and financial security is the most important thing, and when game grumps became that he had trouble letting go. Also this is a great video, and I really do believe we can finally stop speculating
What bothers me is this video kinda seems to frame it as selfishly? Even though Arin has a lot of people working for him whose stability he wants to protect too, I'm sure
i also dont think its necessarily just brand alone. they have an audience, saying hateful shit in private is bad but broadcasting it to all your viewers, some of whom could be seriously hurt by it is way worse. sure, arin is a bit too quick to call things hurtful like with the pelo video, but its far better to be too careful with this kinda stuff than not careful enough. i personally think hes totally in the right in the whole situation
people are way too desperate to white knight for jon its kind of concerning
Yep the business was very important. Otherwise there would be no NDA. Jontron was just not careful enough to stay in business simple as that.
@@midoriasakusa
cause Jon has literally not done anything wrong in any of the shit presented lol
There's nothing wrong with Arin wanting to turn Game Grumps Into a business and there's nothing wrong with Jon not being interested in that. I'm happy for both of them for what they've made of their lives and wish fans would stop trying to paint either as the negative force that ended the duo. It's just how these things go
True, they're both at fault and should both be punished.
i still wish mom and dad never got divorced tho if only they had somehow compromised
I agree with the sentiment completely, except that i feel the issue could have been completely avoided if they'd just been upfront about it. It feels like that decision to be completely secretive and silent is what did the most harm to the channel, Arin, Jon, Dan, and probably everyone else involved with the channel throughout that.
Even though I don't like everything Arin's done, I respect him immensely for his work ethic and how he builds up the people below him in Game Grumps. He sounds like a great boss.
@@turtlenuggetz7895what's wrong with having 2 Christmases?
When they started saying that they broke up for creative reasons, I believed it. I always think about the story they told when Jon was on the show, about literally creating Game Grumps Inc. with an attorney or something.
To the best of my recollection, they had to both write "Partner" next to their names to clarify their official positions, and after Arin did that, Jon wrote "Fartner" and then he had to actually write it correctly. Jon just had a different perspective about the business, and the partnership lasted as long as it could like that.
Lmao honestly the entire documentary could be replaced with this one comment and still deliver the same message
Here's the clip. It did't age very well..... ua-cam.com/video/79L36auwT8Y/v-deo.html&ab_channel=GrumpsTheMovie
@@iRsemple "Arin wanted a partner, but all Jon wanted to be was a fartner" 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Nah, I never believed it because of how weird the circumstances were and how sudden it all came across.
Thats a really good way to put it holy fuck lol.
Honestly I feel like Arin was more playful early on, you could see his passion for games and entertainment in all the animations, rants and videos he created as well as the childhood stories he told. The show-biz side came out later on but then again I don't know him so I could be wrong.
I think people really wanted a villain. They wanted to blame someone. Facts are facts, Jon is impulsive, and Arin is career driven. It wasn’t meant to be, they were both idiots in how they handled it, and that’s the end of the story.
That’s probably what happened tbh
@@syruscoy1244 His career. The one where he’s built an almost universally known let’s play channel on UA-cam, where he’s part of a band, where he tours literally the world doing sold out shows with his own touring company? That one. You don’t have to like him, but the man has built a solid career as a creator online with a very large and dedicated fanbase. You just can’t discredit that.
12:43 I feel like this is similar to what happened with Super Best Friends. Matt wanted to lean hard into making a "brand," and Pat wanted to hang out and play games together, and it strained the friendship. That's reflected in what they're both doing with their own channels.
despite some decisions being very questionable, both of their motives were very understandable, Jon wanted his main channel to be his main thing and didn't want to turn GG in a corporation because it would suck his time away from the JonTron channel, but Arin was sick of how tiresome animation was and didn't want it to be his only source of money, so making GG bigger was his only way of getting an actual job that isn't hell like doing animation only, it just sucks that they did not handle the break up of the aftermath well at all
I'm not completely convinced. If that really was the case, you'd think it would be as simple as one honest conversation where they gave each other's perspective. Because their visions actually align. Arin wants a project other than animation to run, and Jon doesn't want to run anything else and just show up for a podcast style gaming session so he can focus on JonTron. So, what's the problem exactly? How exactly does this prompt Jon to move across the country and sign away his ownership with an NDA? Still something important missing. Probably whatever actually happened at that E3.
@@Deeken171 my guess is that they had multiple conversations about this before, and after Jon got drunk during the whole E3 episode, i don't think they had just a normal argument but a "fight", insults and etc, that's probably when both of them had enough of getting nowhere with all the disagreements, and the fight was so bad they just couldn't live normally with that friendship anymore, Jon wanted to move before this fight happened according to that friend of Jon's fiancé, so if anything his mind was already made up about leaving and focusing on Jontron anyway since Game Grumps was getting way too big and wouldn't be just a side channel anymore, i don't feel like there was anything too fucked up to hide with an NDA, but if there was, considering how young, edgy and imature they seemed to be at that time, it was probably on both their interests to sign that NDA
Those are both valid complaints from both parties. As someone who dabbles in creativity, animation, drawing, 3D modeling, w/e. Having that as a job would be tortures, I would get creatively burnt out so quickly, it being a hobby and enjoying it in moderation is what makes it therapeutic to me. And Jon just wants his channel to grow, a thing most YT creators want. I would've been happy with a compromise like Jon agrees to play games hard with Arin for 2 or 3 days, and have the editor cut and make content out of that for the week and Jon focuses on his Channel and personal life outside that. Maybe that was too much for Jon and not enough time for Erin. Whatever the case, Danny was someone who I didn't know, and therefore didn't expect to like as much as Jon, but I feel he has more chemistry with Arin. I'm glad there's no hard feelings between the two. Just people going their separate career paths, unfortunate, but something that can't be helped.
Oh yeah, switching from animation to let's play game stuff was definetly long sited 😂, remind me which is bigger now?
The guys should have just been honest and not done an NDA. Jon came out better because his main channel wasn't the one with the drama.
@@lifeunderthestarstv You talk as if Game Grumps isn’t a successful brand today which it absolutely is. Besides, Arin has talked plenty about how stressful he finds it to work with animation. Even if it’s become financially viable again, what if he just doesn’t want to do it for personal reasons?
I remember at a MAGfest, at least one year after Jon left GG, going to an out-of-the-way fast food place that was basically completely empty except for Arin and Jon at a table, by themselves, just talking. To this day I wonder what they were up to.
They seemed to be in contact at least until around the time of Starcade. Honestly if not for the destiny stream they'd probably have made at least one reunion gg ep by now.
@@saltythebear I've always assumed since the Destiny incident that a political difference between Jon and Arin played a role in their split. Not the whole reason, mind you. Or even a large one, perhaps. But anyone who has ever tried to hold a partnership together when they hold two very different perspectives on important matters knows it's *very* difficult. (Especially if one or both are very vocal about these views.)
They were probably eating fast food
@@saltythebear While most of us will agree that Jon doesn't have the best political views, the are a lot of things people blow out of proportion with Jon, and I'm going to make some assumptions (Like many of other people are doing anyways) since I don't know him or haven't seem much of his live appearances:
1- Jon is probably not the best "Live Speaker" when put under the spot. People like Destiny are no different from the snakes you see on TV, or the Ben Shapiro's in public debates, they know what they are doing, they know how to make questions that will make you look bad, they will trick you into saying stuff you don't want to, and if you're not well-spoken you will probably end up saying things that don't reflect your true values since you'll be just explaining them badly.
2- None of this should've even been brought to light in the first place. Yes, if the stuff he says or things makes you feel bad about supporting his content, then you're free to stop watching it, however, at least to me, political ideas have never stopped me from enjoying the content from the creators and artists I like. You're not giving them money by watching the content (Your 1 view contribution is not that significant after all).
If Jon did commit some actual crime then I'm willing to agree that people have a legitimate reason to throw him under the bus, but at least from what I've seen of him, he just has some dumb views.
@@Seattletyy93 But... that was the one thing they definitely weren't doing! The table was empty! So, so empty!
Now we just need the story of why the Oney Crew, Ding Dong and Julian left the grumps office
Ooooh I’d love if he made that
A channel named spooky weebtrash made a segment in a video on that video is 3hrs long but she has times stamps
I remember when dingdong started streaming a long ass time ago he said something about how he and julian didn't like dream daddy as a concept (they were in the GG offices during its development) and this is eventually what led to oneyplays leaving the GG office/fued between Chris and Oney. Rumor has it that corporate GG didn't like that an actual gay couple in their offices were sharing dissenting opinions about their gay dating sim, and oneyplays was asked to vacate the building.
Ding dong has talked about it on stream. Game Grumps, especially Suzy, are vile and should be ashamed.
I watched both DD streams about the situation and its awful. its too bad DD doesn't want the story out there and wants the drama to end. That didn't stop Lex though, now we know Supermega have just as big an ego as Arin@@TheVenhammer
I think what everyone forgets, is that creators are still real people. They are fallible and make mistakes like everyone else does.
Some mistakes more racist than others.
@@CruzaComplex never said anything about racists
Yeah no shit they're real people.
@@FuzzBucket69 totally missed my point buddy
@@RyanKeller95 No I understood I was just being very literal with my dickish comment.
As a fan from the beginning, it's so bizarre to watch this video and be like "Oh my gosh. I remember this day." and to have actual explanation behind really weird discoveries at the time. Great work!!
Thanks so much for your lovely words! I remember that day too so much, It's seared into my memory and I could even tell you what I was doing when I found out! I think that means just how much Game Grumps meant to a lot of us. I'm really happy that I can offer a deeper dive on the subject that hasn't been seen up until now
Same, so we must've been watching at the same time. I was a big fan of egoraptor and The Awesome Series from newgrounds. I had never heard of Jon when they channel was created, I was just there to see what Arin was up to. Fell in love and watched every episode on the day it came out after school, with a side of microwave chicken nuggets. Became a big fan of Jon, him quickly becoming my favorite of the pair.
Now I'm 28 years old. What even is time.
Dan's joke, "I lost interest after Jon left the show," had me _rolling!_ 😂🤣
He really is a sassy salty Sandra 😂 thanks for watching! It means everything
only disagrree about the part where Jon's vids have millions of views while Game Grumps averages 100-300K because the frequency of uploads is completely different. Averaging above 100K on daily uploads is akin to millions of views on less frequent uploads
To give Arin & co full benefit of the doubt, it could be that censoring the Miiverse post was the best way they could think of to not violate the aforementioned NDA. Depending on how it is written, even just showing the post could be a violation, and showing it *and* reacting to it could easily be a violation.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if Arin's change in attitude was him figuring out whether or not they'd have to censor that post and what they'd do to cover it
Yeah. Arin seemed bummed. Maybe it was because he had to switch his brain into "businessman mode" during what was supposed to be a lighthearted moment he was sharing with fans.
I can't tell you how much a breath of fresh air it is to finally have a video that doesn't write this situation out like it's some dark conspiracy and takes the realistic approach that it was just the creative disagreements of two dudes. These things happen all the time, Jon and Arin are just humans and make mistakes, doesn't mean I agree with all of the decisions that either of them has made and if I'm being honest I've always had a bias a bit more in favor of Arin. I discovered grumps post Jon so Danny has always been Not so grump to me and personally I've always preferred the dynamic between Arin and Danny. The two of them have gotten me through some rough times and I cherish the laughs they have given me, but I've come to recognize that Arin can make some questionable choices and isn't always the most rational of people but he tries his best and that's all you can ask of a person in the end. Both sides are happy and still doing what they love and have ultimately moved on. I think this could be a good lesson for the internet and people in general that dwelling on the past mistakes of others is ultimately unhelpful and perpetuates that toxic cancel culture mindset. Give people their just amount of criticism at the moment that it's appropriate and move on.
Thanks so much for sharing those lovely words with me
Well stated.👌👏
Well he compares game grumps censoring a Miiverse post to Stalin so. While he did do a better job explaining the actual reasons behind the whole thing, it’s still a pretty dramatic telling of it hahaha
As someone else who became a Grumps fan post Jon, I can agree that it's nice to see a video like this. I'm glad the whole situation has basically been revealed to just be conflicting viewpoints, and nothing more serious. I love both JonTron and Game Grumps, and will keep supporting both these channels.
@@DoubleKillFilms Definitely a "C'mon dude, really?!?" kinda moment lol. Also did sense some leaning towards Jon, even in light of his...ahem..."views".
Holy shit that miiverse thing was insane, I’ve never heard someone talk about it before
It’s mental isn’t it?! It’s just crazy how far they were willing to go to bury any mention! Thanks so much for watching ❤️
@@itscassette I think it makes a lot of sense *why* they'd have done it, but if they hadn't wanted us to catch on they'd have edited more out, like Arin's mood very noticeably plummeting , people were hyper aware of that kind of stuff and picked up on it right away
What happened? I haven't got the time to watch the video right now and was quite curious about that!
@@SeaSurf74 basically they edited and censored a Miiverse message that said "Game grumps acknowledge Jontron"
And not only they censored that by making it blank like an empty message although that wasn't possible, but also invented a new drawing also
Idk for me that's terrible I don't care if some people defend that
@@AlenBear Yeah I feel like there’s no way to defend that, they could have just simply censored it well and it would be implied that it was something else inappropriate, if they really wanted to cover it up. Even then I think it’s just a low integrity move to be so hush-hush about something people are already so aware of, it being there wouldn’t bring any more attention to it than there already was.
honestly it seems the two just wanted different things. Arin wanted a reliable income, Jon wanted the freedom to be experimental. Neither of those desires are "wrong" they are just not compatible.
Something else that I think is important to note is at the time of the falling out, Arin would've been 26 and Jon would've been 23. Age does not directly correlate to maturity or anything, but having a friend with a similar age difference, there's a handful of areas and subjects where we drastically differ in due to our lived experiences. And I feel like that probably had some role to play in the fall out. Arin's push for brand consistency and stability is probably due to his low income background with little promise beyond Animation. Jon had a lot ahead of him to experiment with and venture through.
And in a similar perspective, you can kinda feel in those early videos how frustrated Arin gets with Jon. Like Arin would clearly get irritated and annoyed by some of Jon's antics, and it frequently felt like Arin had to be "the straight man" to Jon's "odd ball" persona in their dynamic, which does not lend well to Arin as a performer in my opinion. I think their separation as co-hosts was probably for the best in the bigger picture, despite how poorly Jon's departure went down.
Was Jon really in a much better position? Some of his oldest interactions with the internet include his Yahoo answers where he asks "Is it okay to feel sad all the time" and other depressing questions a small child shouldn't be asking. I can't tell but I think his parents were divorced at some point. Also, not to make poverty a competition, because developing countries destroy me at this, but Arin's stories are from a position of lower middle class. His parents were educated and trained for their jobs. I was raised by a single father with no marketable skills. We had no video game consoles in our house. We ate ketchup on bread for a meal. Processed cheese was considered meat. Field trips, even when heavily subsidized, were missed out on, because we couldn't afford the sometimes *ten dollars* needed to go. Arin has no idea what real (first world at least) poverty is about. The stories he tell sound alien to me at best, and a slightly worse off version of the suburban 2 car middle class that's so quick to claim woe-is-me at worst.
For the record I was a fan of Arin for almost a decade prior to knowing who Jontron was, and I've only found him funny for a small period of time. I'm not a fan of him, but I do have some nostalgia for him at this point. I'm just saying this to frame my post and try and dissuade the idea that I'm playing defense for Jon. He's a grown man and if he feels so strongly about his words standing on their own merit, he doesn't need a defense force anyway.
@@PinkManGuy The basis for my comment was less of how "Good" one had it over the other, and more to do with the particular mindset either of them may have had at their given milestones in life. Arin was at a point where he probably felt he was running out of options and Game Grumps was an incredibly promising option, and Jon being 23 was probably not at that point in life yet. I know when I was 23, I didn't have thoughts like that but by 26, 27, I absolutely did. It's less about who had a better financial situation or upbringing and more about how much time they felt they had left.
Dude three years is nothing as far as lived experience. That's an insane take.
@@GruppeSechs I'm going to have to disagree completely. 3 years is the difference between a child starting 6th grade and a teenage starting 9th grade. It's the difference between teen starting 10th grade and a teen start college. It's the difference between a college freshman and someone legally allowed to drink. A lot happens in 3 years, and while yes that gap of time starts to become less impactful as you get older, a 23 year old and a 26 year old are in very different points of their lives. Especially when one grew up being a famous internet personality and the future of their career is starting to take a toll on them, and the other just recently had their UA-cam career take off. From personal experience, I was a drastically different person at 23 than I was at 26. I had different priorities, hobbies, concerns and fears. And at 28 now, I'm a drastically different person from 26. 3 years is a lot of time in your twenties. That's more than 10% of your life. If you don't think that's massive, you're either younger than 25 or you've forgotten how different your life was when you were at Jon's and Erin's ages.
@@DrgoFx The difference for developing children is a completely moot point. Going from 23 to 26 is nothing. Just because your interests change doesn't mean you as a person does. You're kidding yourself if you think that's the case.
I remember some interview where Arin talked about hanging out with Danny early in their friendship and noticed their natural chemistry. He thought that IF Jon ever left Game Grumps, he would bring Danny on. It was treated like a sweet moment, but it proves that Arin never saw Grumps as "the thing me and Jon do together." Jon was always replaceable.
That's an excellent point you raise there. Again we already know how much Arin was focussing on widening the channel and turning into a mega-hub, It really was progressing that way before things fractured with Arin and Jon.
Appreciate you and your comment
definitely a thought supported by how game grumps now has a corporate, production, and merchandice sections of employment among their members. even danny could be replaced to keep the content wood mill running its all setup and waiting
I think this is a biased way of thinking. Just think about it, Jon always had a backup plan with the Jontron channel, but it's wrong for Arin to have a backup plan with Danny in mind? GG is a strict format with 2 people, it's just bad business not to have a way out if Jon decides to leave.
I thought he said he would call up Danny if Jontron was ever sick or something, but not as a permanent replacement. The context would be different there. But it's been a while since I saw the clip you're mentioning so I may not be remembering it 100% accurately.
@@Static_Uproar I don't remember the exact episode, but I think it was Bloodborne or Dark souls maybe, where Arin talked about this.
It’s odd just how much history the channel has. It may have only been 10 years so far but its felt like 20
Thanks so much for watching! It's nuts how much lore they have, absolutely! There was so much that was cut from this video for the sake of brevity there's that much to talk about!
With how much if this whole situation is documented, you’d have to spend more time combing through information about the history of Game Grumps than you would for some periods of history.
I know, right? GG has gotten me through all of high school AND college by this point. Hell, there was a period where I could only fall asleep if I was listening to them.
The sheer amount of incredible music that came out of such a short period of time in the Jon era still blows my mind. There was plenty after too but few really captured the energy of the Jon era. I still listen to playlists occasionally
most people occasionally listen to albums that are decades old
As a fan of both, it's really weird that the video definitely vilifies Arin even though it goes out of its way to say it isn't. To your theory, Jon was hungover the morning of scheduled press events and they had a fight about priorities and split. How is the take-away that Arin was some sort of control freak obsessed with PR? It also isn't unreasonable and a good move, not just PR-wise, but ethically and morally to denounce Jon's racist remarks. To my memory, even that 'denouncement' was pretty luke-warm. I liked the video for its informative read through of the conspiracy grump posts and the editing was spectacular, but the editorializing became annoying and eventually straight up off-putting once it seemed to handwave Jon's split with multiple long-term friends/businesses as being impulsive and not a result of his consistent, objectively offensive, past remarks.🤷The video really shows a clear lean towards making Jon some sort of protagonist and ends up making the video as a whole seem to forgive these points.
Thank you for articulating this so well. Painting JonTron as some sort of poor little victim is in very poor taste and made me so uncomfortable...
i agree 100% this video is definitely biased towards the defence of jon
@LordJamek but Jon was literally borderline nazi. Like borderline Hitlerite nazi. That's bad. Unless there's some proof that he no longer believes in a Jewish conspiracy theory I'm gonna say that he shouldn't be forgiven.
@@LordJamek the difference is jon is still saying those things, while Arin actually grew up.
seriously it's so weird
I feel like it's important to point out that when you were talking about video views per game grumps and Jon Tron, you only pointed out the number of views per video without addressing that Jon Tron uploads maybe 5 times per year. Whereas game grumps upload every day. So taking that into account, game grumps is getting twice the viewer count of Jon Tron. Personally i'm not partial to either Jon Tron or Game Grumps, I just wanted to say that statistics have to be viewed correctly.
@Rhysman30 he has GG, The Grumps (a side channel), RPGees (enamel pins), recent voice acting (Rick and Morty and OK KO), GG merch, GG tours, his books, and maybe even occasional ad deals
So much about this video, such as that part, come off as framed the way they were to paint a particular picture of a situation. Purposefully missing or ignored context like that. It is dishonest, and gives the impression of ulterior motives with this video. Anyone that is or was a fan of the two knows the polarity in their respective upload schedules. To leave that info out, is thoughtless at best.
Well, I usually do not prefer to watch content that is produced daily. I think, (having not actually watched the documentary yet, but I can comment on this idea, at least) that both styles of content production could serve different audiences.
@@Thalanox well the reason I pointed it out is because in the video he made the argument that JonTron videos get more views than game grumps videos, therefore he is doing better while game grumps is struggling. I just felt the need to point out that technically game grumps is doing better than jon tron and that the infrequency of jon tron can spike the viewership.
agreed, that part of the video - among some others - felt a little disingenuous.
I think Arin discovered early on that GG was his lifelong dream. Knowing that Jon mostly saw it as a side fun thing to do, Arin's worst nightmare would be if Jon left or did/said something really stupid that would negatively impact the show.
Most likely Jon knew Airn progressively saw him as a potential wildcard as the show continued to grow. This would drive a wedge in their friendship.
Some final straw happened at E3 and they got into an argument. With the lack of creative control and Jon feeling underappreciated he decided he was finally going to move to New York leaving the game grumps out to dry.
Arin was forced to quickly find a new co-host and had Jon sign a NDA so any drama that would come out from the break up would be minimized to keep the GG business from more fan outrage. If Jon had left and was able to say he said he felt that his friend & co-host thought he might one day doom the show because of his behavior and had little say on where the business was going. GG may not have recovered the way it did.
I can't blame Arin too much. Jon is undoubtedly impulsive and not brand safe. And I don't think Arin wants a squeaky clean brand just for business security. I think he's grown and changed over the years and that's his true self now. The dynamic between them won't work as well because they are two different people now.
Ultimately they both landed on their feet and are still beloved internet creators. I'm still to this day a huge fan of both GG and JonTron.
This is what I was thinking makes the most sense as well. Jon wasn't as serious about it, and being drunk at E3 is a huge red flag. If he says what he said on Destiny's debate stream sober, think what kind of shit he may spew when drunk, and Arin didn't want to sit around waiting for that time bomb to go off and kill his livelihood when it finally did. I don't think anyone can fault Arin for not wanting to be caught in the blast of Jon's shitty takes blowing up in his face.
The only part I disagree with is the last bit. Even though I find Jon's content hilarious, it's becoming harder for me to separate the art from the artist, and Jon is quite the vocal bigot. I don't wish ill for anyone, but once I realized how bad Jon's takes were and how ingrained they are and that he is unlikely to ever change, his content became hard to watch since he is the focal point of it all.
Arin and Danny did awkward stuff early in their partnership like Racist Bassist or Hoshi the Sad Japanese Businessman (Who Is Also A Pedophile). But the important thing is, they stopped. Arin was even open in admitting that even if he lost a swath of viewers who didn't like hom being "PC", he'd rather not have their views.
Jontron dug his heels in with his bigotry. He's got good jokes, but beyond that nobody ever has good things to say about him.
both jon and arin seem to be explosive personalities which are fun to watch but not good for a long term career. dan really is a good balance to arins explosive personality they just compliment each other so well while also sharing a lot of interests.
I guess Arin was grump, but JonTron wasn't so grump.
i believe dan is a worthy successor to jon he does such a good job and is funny to boot
Thanks so much for watching and for your comment! I agree totally that out of anyone it could have been, Danny was a fab choice. He absolutely earned the respect and love of existing fans no doubt
@@itscassette Agreed. Feels like Jon got done dirty, but Danny is a fantastic personality and is worthy of the not so grump crown.
I'm just sad we'll never get a Dan and Jon episode.
Dan's good, but he doesn't challenge Arin enough, in my opinion. He's very passive and that comes off as him not having any real opinions when it comes to games.
@@jmartens759 he doesn't need to. It's not a review channel. It's two goofballs talking while playing games. He's a great personality, that's all he needs to be IMO.
Interesting video, and nice documentation! But i do have to say its kinda weird to place Arin as an "angry overcontrolling boss" to Jon considering we dont know anything regarding they're personal lives at that time. The ending to the "the reason Jon left" segment is a bit too speculatory to be part of a documentary style video. (kinda sounded like you were making Jon out to be some sort of victim to Arin)
agreed. this comment needs a boost because, at worst, Arin could sue for defamation, yknow?
Yeah, I think that was a bit too far as well. I genuinely mean it when I say this. Neither Jon nor Arin seem like bad dudes. But really painting Arin as the bad guy when he was just trying to expand the show is shrubbery. If we absolutely HAVE to point a finger at someone, it was kinda messed up that Jon up and left the project suddenly with the other's livelihoods on the line. But it was over a decade ago. I imagine if you were to ask Jon, he would tell you first hand that he would have done things differently in hindsight. They were young.
Yeah, the sudden switch from talking the facts to suddenly going full conspiracy felt out of place at best. Everything up until like the 50 minute mark was reporting on things that had actually happened, and then the video started talking only hypotheticals in the same tone, making it out like those statements are as factually correct as what came before.
Yeah I feel like that ending was missing one follow up point.
The "Angry Boss Arin" stuff should have been framed as a "Maybe this was Jon's perspective."
And then instead of that being the video conclusion, the follow up to conclude the video should have been the "Or maybe that's not like what it was at all."
Maybe even include "or From Arin's perspective, maybe John was that partner who was dragging his feet and holding the channel back from its potential."
It was just odd that the whole hour long video seemed to be very neutral, (going back and forth with "maybe this perspn/event was bad? Or maybe this one.." and then the final statement wasn't neutral. It was just a "maybe Arin was bad? The end."
But it also didn't come across as a "Maybe" but instead a "Probably Arin was bad." Because it was the final statement to conclude the video and "answer the question" of "what happened?"
So, being a Jon-stan lol, I agree.
That angry boss comment came across as a "probably what happened" when it should have been a "potentially someone's perspective of the situation" that should have been followed by the other sides relative perspective, and then a conclusion that says "one of, or both of, those perspectives is probably the answer."
It felt really off to me to see so much research and evidence go into most of the video, and then have that entire ending section that sounded equally authoritative, but seems entirely speculative? Do we even have proof that Arin's actions are motivated primarily by public image and not just his own values shifting? I feel like we don't really have a way to say for certain one way or another. I stopped watching JonTron after it became clear that he was sticking with his white nationalist bullshit (I'd love to learn that that's changed but I've moved on at this point), and I stopped watching Game Grumps after evidence surfaced of Danny taking advantage of vulnerable women, so I don't have a particular interest in either side anymore, but it was still kinda uncomfortable to see this theory stated as if it were absolute fact :\
NormalBoots members have very consistently claimed that Jon was already leaving the group for inactivity well before his controversy. Jon has also reiterated this at least twice, so I feel it's inaccurate to say otherwise.
Actually love Danny taking over… he brought a more grounded feel to the show.
Danny was the perfect choice for a post Jon Grumps 10000%
@@Kinogotiate you should watch the one where he talks about his discovery that he had OCD. It’s a beautiful episode.
@@drzjay0993 no me digai que hacer
I have mixed feelings personally, on one hand, Danny is much funnier than either of them and I love him, but Arin and Jon’s comedic chemistry together was on another level,
@@perrydunetz882 It's kinda of baffling when you hear about their filming of starcade how they basically fell into their old groove and adlibed for like 30 minutes. Even with all their history they still had a ton of chemistry.
This is the most reasonable and simplest explanation. Very well done video. I'm sure there are details that we will never know (like the specifics of their fights/arguments, etc), but it really does just seem like it was about a power struggle concerning the future of the grumps. Jon always wanted it as a chill side project, whereas Arin wanted to turn it into an empire. I'm sure there are some juicy details in there that are still unknown, but that appears to be what it was in a nutshell.
Thanks so much for the lovely words on this! Yeah absolutely. All the sources point to this as the reasoning behind the split and when it came time for GG’s statement on it they really weren’t lying when they said Jon left to work on JonTron, it’s just purposely ambiguous by design. You’re probably right in terms of juicy details, but the crux of the matter is very much a fallout and a robbing of control. Again thanks so much man. Your comment made my day ❤️
facts, as much as it felt odd too see jon go, it doesn't feel right to imagine a timeline where jon stayed. I think it would have become toxic overtime because of some of the similarities in their personalities. Dan and Arin balance each other out and bring different skills and ideas to the channel that have become iconic. They've turned it and themselves into professionals in a business that feels chill to them rather than being exclusively one or the other (the original conflict between Jon and Arin). idk
For the love of god buy a pop filter.
Sometimes I rewatch the Jon era GG playlist, and if you do, you can kinda tell that Jon is way outside what he expected from the show. They constantly talk about how they sometimes frustrate each other over different things and how the situation when the camera was off wasnt always great. IMO the most likely thing to have happened is that Jon got burnt out. We see this from his main JT channel, he will go dark for a bit and come back for a bit: he seems to just get burnt out and likes to take his time. No shade, I have problems with mental health and motivation that would effect me similarly if I was a creator. (Not saying Jon has those problems) And if Arin was pushing so hard to make a huge network of channels and constantly making headaches for Jon (not saying Arin is wrong to capitalize, just saying that Jon would have seen it as an unnecessary inconvenience), I could see him reaching a tipping point where he just gets soured on the whole thing.
100%. Jon uploading 4 times a year is considered a win, and this last month uploading 3 videos people are going insane. He took a YEAR off after his biggest video, flex tape. He made a banger with 70 million views, and dipped lol. He is not the type of person to upload daily content, let alone the rate early grumps was pumping out videos.
For him, it was probably nice to hang out with a friend and play old games with the nice bonus of putting them on UA-cam and making some money. But Jon was already doing that, Arin wasn't. Arin saw the opportunity for a huge business and a steady income and he's not in the wrong for that at all. UA-cam is vicious to animators, and a video Jon could make in a few days playing a vrappy game would take months for Arin to animate and make the same.
I love GG, old and new. Gooftroop is my all time favorite play thru, but Danny is amazing as well. Looking back now you can see that the business model was not gonna work for Jon long term. The fact he did it for nearly a year is amazing in it's own right.
Someone else's comment here kinda encapsulated my take on the video and the situation. Jon was doing Game Grumps to have fun with his friend and just shoot the shit while playing vidyagaems, an unscripted, off-the-cuff podcast-like easy breezy channel. Arin was looking at this as a business opportunity. Arin took Game Grumps as seriously as Jon took The JonTron Show. Jon wanted a relaxing time, Arin wanted to capitalize on this. Neither is wrong to want this, but I think the BIG THING is that Jon already had his 'put my working boots on' project, and he wanted to do Game Grumps on auto-pilot. Arin had Game Grumps and very little else (some VA work, maybe? Unreliable at first), so.. well I'm just repeating myself here.
I think it was just they both had different wants for Game Grumps and those ended up being incompatible, because Jon was devoted to The JonTron show. Neither was wrong here, but they didn't discuss it beforehand, so it blew up instead of being nipped in the bud.
@@higglybiggly1174Woops I accidentally copied most of your post before reading it because I had the same idea. Have my upvote.
It's so crazy how this was made from someone under 1000 subs, like dude this is beyond professional stuff
you're so underrated and can't wait to see more
Wow! What a lovely thing to say ❤️ a lot of work went into this so I’m really glad it shows in the finished product!
I’ve got plenty more to come! Next project is in the works and I hope you’ll love it! Thanks again for such kind words, they mean more to me than I could possibly communicate
are you saying bigger number = better person
@@Sphyell not really, I just thought he had more subs with how good the quality is. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with 100k subs, this stuff is really good
Agreed!
RIP TotalBiscuit. I got real sad seeing him again. :(
Same. RIP
Watching that deleted Steam Train promo was surreal, it's like looking into an alternate timeline.
It is extremely difficult to respectfully separate from someone whom you've (essentially) started a business with. It's like getting fired, your boss can be as respectful as possible in terminating you, but you still can't help but feel some form of contempt or even anger towards them. They probably did just have creative differences, Jon wanted to work on JonTron more and didn't want Game Grumps to take a more corporate approach, Arin wanted to expand the business. I have no doubt that they were (to some degree) very respectful with one another when they eventually came to the decision to separate, but contempt is had, rumors are spread, lies are told, and thus conspiracies form.
On another note, while I definitely do not agree with Jon's moral/political views, I also don't necessarily agree with what Game Grumps has become either. I would love to see a similar video to this, only with the drama that happened between the Grumps and Ding Dong (a fellow content creator and friend of OneyNG) as there is definitely a lot to unpack there.
If I had to make my guess before the reveal at the end, I'd of said Arin wanted to turn GameGrumps into a business, bring in more creators, it was a very good source of income and a dream come true for most people... while Jon wanted it to just stay a side thing they did for fun and not become a second job, perhaps leaving himself room to work on JonTron videos as well.
But the conclusion in the video makes a lot of sense too, maybe a little of both.
Thanks so much for watching! I love your take on this story too, that's the best thing about it - it being so open to interpretation
Sometimes I miss the Jon era and hoped for more but times change and people move on. I’m grateful for all they have done.
Controversy shit aside, I stopped watching after the 'Jon Era'.
I just don't like Dan and arins humor when they're together.
Which is hilarious because I honestly might consider watching it again if they got rid of arin. I never really liked his sense of humor. I think Dan is great.
@@necrocorey6408 I can taste the irony in that statement haha.
@necrocorey6408 Same here, when I watch game videos I don't want to think "Wow this guy is a hypocrite", I want to think " Haha funny"
I've been an Egoraptor fan since the early UA-cam days and immediately fell in love with Game Grumps. It's so strange to see everything that I lived through as a fan explained as if it were a series of historical events. I was always in the audience never a participant when it came to the conspiracies but this video has put me at peace with a longstanding question I've had at the back of my mind. I'd like to see more videos like this about the other Game Grumps related conspiracies to put them to rest, but this was the big one and it would be hard to find as much material and I imagine there would be less interest in things like the Suzy Etsy thing or the split with the Chris O'neil group.
I was somewhat involved with the Miiverse thing. It was actually more in depth than the video makes it appear - people were doing colour-level and pixel-level analysis on the boxes and finding tiny differences in jakey's meaning someone had edited the footage almost perfectly. Genuinely interesting summary post showing the thought process here. /r/ConspiracyGrumps/comments/2s4f9z/censored_miiverse_post_for_real/
The weirdest part of all this is that Chuckles' post is actually probably real. It just looked suspicious enough to warrant the investigation which found an actual doctored post right next to it.
I would Love an analysis on the Suzy Etsy stuff. Been curious about it for awhile.
@@anitachamberlain3391 People undersell its severity. She essentially bought cheap mass produced jewellery and sold it as "handmade" (specifically) and under her name for vastly increased prices (documented 3,500% on one item), advertised by Arin a couple of times, and advertised on her twitter as made by her. People found out they were the same items with a massive markup.
She blew up at them, Arin made a preachy reddit post condemning those angry at her for it. So she ripped off fans using her clout who thought they were buying something she made herself.
Okay, big deal, some fans had their trust betrayed and money wasted, fool and his money, right? Nope. Suzy lives in America and is used to these things happening unpunished. Suzy was selling them internationally. This broke trading standards law in both the EU and Australia. Suzy quickly dropped the entire thing when people started bringing this up, because with a few reports and the piles of easy evidence already collected the relevant authorities in these places could send a note to Etsy to have her banned from international sales or entirely with the push of a button.
The full breakdown is here, some of the links are dead but throw them in waybackmachine, they're all recorded. www.reddit.com/r/ConspiracyGrumps/comments/30bhdf/proof_of_suzys_dishonesty_suzys_etsy_scam/
This really didnt need to be an hour long.
yeah i bet you dont last an hour
@@sleepybosslamb yeah my adhd snaps me out pretty fast, ya live with it
@@HexiCore skill issue
@@sleepybosslamb age
Seeing Ross and Holly in the same video (the StarCade reunion) made me go "eugh..." Brings back bad memories of watching that drama unfold.
The smile on his face, he has no idea what she's about to do lol
@@KotoCrash She didn't do shit, it was Heidi who was getting ready to drag everyone down into the shitshow.
@@xaldynnemo47 It was both dude.
@@KotoCrash This was yeeeaars ago, so maybe I just forgot, but what exactly did Heidi do wrong? She and Ross broke up (pretty amicably iirc), and she decided to see other people. She didn't actually instigate anything, did she?
@@KotoCrash Ross ended his relationship with Holly amicably, and there's more than enough circumstantial evidence to say they were together for his Green Card anyways. Heidi had no part in that other than bringing drama to everyone involved.
Back when the split happened I made some snap judgments about the situation, being only about 16 years old at the time. Now that so many years have passed I can see both perspectives on the situation for sure. I only wish there had been a little more openness, but first and foremost I'm glad we got that year of content as I still go back to visit it regularly. Great video.
Oh absolutely, it’s very much a product of who they are which was always going to cause a blow up. I think we all wish they’d be forthcoming but I think that alone is down to who they are for sure. Thanks so much for your kind words man it means the world to me ❤️
@@itscassette You're welcome, man. Looking forward to seeing more of your stuff.
In the end, I think GG would've died not long later if Jon had stayed. Watching old videos, there is a different feel with Jon that isn't really captured as it is with Danny. It feels a lot more relaxed, even in the real early episodes.
I'm just curious, if Dan was really an "emergency replacement" like is said in the video, then is it possible that it would've cycled a little till they found the right fit. Is there an alternate universe where Ross or Barry is the replacement for Jon instead?
47:27 I think that is a bad comparison. While Egoraptor saying that type of words is in poor taste, Jontron saying "Mexican shouldn't enter enter the white gene pool" is on a complete different level.
While the quote of Jontron saying "rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites" get a lot of traction, I think it is not the worst thing he said during his talk with Destiny.
He really should have said "white supremacy is the most dangerous threat to the US governments democracy"
Honestly both have said pretty abhorrent shit. Like when it was said Arin had to scream the n-word after taking a taxi with an African American to get it out of his system. Not saying Jon is any better but both have definitely said some bad shit.
@@anthonylonlieano848 with Arin, we know he held those views all his life, let's call it "casual racism" which was in the 200x years something normal. No, seriously.
It's also wrong to go back into someone's history, dig up shit like that and call him out as a hypocrite for it, because people can change. The internet doesn't do a good job to promote this fact, some asshole will ALWAYS bring it up, that's just how this place works.
Fans found his change of personality disingenious. He had his reasons, especially working for the goddamn mouse being one of them, but those kinds of restrictions were stuff he once laughed about. So mostly people called him out for "selling out", more than his stance being more liberal and progressive itself.
I hope by now he reached the level of experience where he just does his show, and whenever he dips into the comments just looks at his (hopefully) pile of "fuck off money" and disregards all the comments of people he will most likely never meet.
@@gus29361 How? White people are the majority of the country?
@@gus29361tired joke
I swear, seeing the starcade footage of jon and arin reuniting brought legit tears to my eyes. it was such a good episode
It's weird you make it sound like arin is the bad guy but it sounds like Jon just wanted to move game grumps to the side to do JonTron and arin didn't wanna be know as the new grounds guy I don't think there is a bad guy.
I just realized that game grumps was my refuge from other internet dramas a few years ago. I had heard Jon mentioned a few times, but never knew it went this deep. I’m actually super thankful for that. I don’t speak for anyone but myself, but it can be traumatizing when your safe escape, in whatever form it takes, has a radical change that’s outside of your control. That safety is damaged, sometimes irreparably. It happened to me with Rooster Teeth, then Achievement Hunter, hell even my favorite DnD creator at one point time got the Voldemort treatment.
I say this to point out that “brand safety” can mean many different things to different people. For Arin, it was his livelihood, his dream even, and I don’t blame him for having trust issues with someone who was starting to threaten that. I think they made wise decisions handling it the way they did, even if it was far from ideal. Because Arin defended the brand, the channel was able to stay a safe place, among other things.
I can’t watch RWBY vol 3 without crying, I can’t watch old Minecraft let’s plays with Ryan at all (again, that’s just me). How easily could Game Grumps have gone the same way? Instead, they went their separate ways and both ended up happy with where their content went. This is absolutely the good ending.
TL;DR Arin’s decision to defend the GG brand also meant that it could remain a safe haven in the age of cancel culture. I just wanted to mention it because “brand safety” can mean so much more than corporate success.
It makes sense that Arin is concerned with the brand and puts it first because the brand and Arin are one in the same. Arin sticks to his values and doesn't compromise, and the brand reflects that. That's a good thing. It means you're in control of your own life and doing the opposite of selling out. So, what's good for the brand is good for Arin and vice-versa.
The game grumps generally try to stay out of controversy, and it makes sense because they aren’t UA-camrs, they are a company.
Any controversies they’ve had came from the past, blank accusations, and the occasional Arin making a fuckup on Twitter. Any controversies are either pushed aside or quickly diffused.
ik this makes sense now, but at the time hearing egoraptor was switching fulltime to lets plays was unthinkable. People still rag on him for that tweet that he made where he said "if i ever become a lets play-er, just kill me" or something along those lines, and it was right around when sequelitis was gaining a lot of traction. He got a lot of flak when this went down because people believed that Arin became "Arin from GG" and not "Egoraptor"
Great recap but not really a huge fan of how it seems to side with and praise Jon so much. Whenever there are blanks to fill in, Arin is framed as this image-obsessed control freak and the most charitable assumptions are made about Jon. The way you glossed over Jontron's Destiny debate is kind of odd too. You say that what Jon said is "reprehensible" but then suggest Arin flagrantly cuts ties with anyone who doesn't perfectly share his worldview. To be clear, Jontron suggested that black people are genetically predisposed to crime, non-whites are diluting the gene pool, and doubled down on these points at every opportunity. Of course Arin didn't want to deal with him anymore. It's not indicative of a character flaw that they weren't cool after that. Some people aren't going to want to look past their old friend being racist, brand image or not. Arin isn't the best person, but in trying to strengthen your argument that he's "brand obsessed" you unfortunately framed him as this cartoonishly evil villain that Jon vanquished by building a bigger UA-cam channel.
Again, I was very impressed with the video and hope you don't take what I'm saying to heart too much. I read through some of your comments and understand a lot was cut out for time. The end result still paints a strange picture and left me with mixed feelings.
Hi and thanks so much for watching and sharing your viewpoint! I hope you’ll allow some rational for the choices I made in the video 😊 You’re absolutely right that this video seems more weighted to Jon as this was the whole point of the overarching narrative (Why Jon left as opposed to why Game Grumps split). The answer will always be more weighted to Jon’s perspective as a result of this narrative. I also didn’t want to make this a drama video and only included the bits I did to illustrate the reasons behind the breakup, Ie Jon’s impulsiveness, arins PR image etc. I hope it’s clear for everyone that I found what Jon and Arin have said is reprehensible. Jon’s not alone for making loaded comments, but they are the most recent and public as a result.
Ultimately with this film my end goal was to paint a picture with how the two characters would always end up clashing by design and it’s thanks to Arin that game grumps continued and so well as a result, but Jon’s actions and comments have far reaching consequences that mean he will never return to Grumps as a result of it and to be honest it’s for the best.
I absolutely don’t take your comments negatively at all ❤️ it’s so important to me that there is an alternative take on where I’m coming from as that’s how the world works! I’m really glad you did enjoy the video, I will aim to make further progress into being more balanced with future projects and I hope your take away didn’t marr your experience with this too much.
I super appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me!
@@itscassette Hey, srry about this but im reading the comments without watching the video bc ngl i was curious but can't really watch something long rn, but im curious, has Arin said anything worse than the racial slurs on that old video??? bc i feel there's a big difference between saying racial slurs years ago (which don't get me wrong, it's bad) and Jon saying that black people are genetically predisposed to crime and the gene pool thing besides many more stuff like being annoyed at the black lives matter protests and all of that recently, hope this doesn't feel like an attack or anything, im just curious about if im missing something (fully my fault) or if these 2 things are being put on the same category
@@RQrock No, Arin has not.
He's put a lot of effort into being a better person, which people are calling him a "sell out" for...
Arin recognizes that the JOKES he made back then were NOT okay to do, and he want to set a better example for the millions of children that look up to him.
John is an actual racist, who got to say his ideas outloud.
The song at the end of the video is called "Jon wins" if that tells you anything.
The ending song is called "jon wins"...
@@PieboxAnimations Yeah, like, i feel people are WAY more apologetic to Jon being openly racist than Arin just trying to keep a good image, bc no matter if you think he's being legitimate or not (Which for me it feels legitimate) it's still much better even in the worst case scenario than what Jon is doing
I find myself very old for the fact that I was on day one of Game Grumps, because I followed Egoraptor before it and I've seen the ups and downs of the show for a decade.... and the fact that a couple of friends of mine love Game Grumps and when I mentioned JonTron they were in shock yelling "JONTRON WAS A GAME GRUMP???"
Oh, the age, it's hitting me hard XD
I’m not buying that Arin was a power hungry asshole and that being the main reason for the breakup.
Maybe Arin got tired of Jon constantly saying racist shit
That opening was so dramatic i love it. I think my favorite style of youtube videos are longer investigative, documentary, or deep dive kind of stuff and i gotta say man this is like equal in quality to some of the bigger channels that i love. This was really good. You deserve a lot more subscribers.
Thank you so much! Effects wise the intro was one of my favourite pieces to date! :D Thanks so much for your kind words, it means the world to me
THIS IS YOUR FIRST VIDEO!!? mate i’m a new enough game grumps fan and didn’t even think i’d have much of an interest in this but you COMPLETELY hooked me??? this was so well made you have a genuine natural talent. this was amazing! :)
Wow! Thanks so much for your lovely words!! This first video went through so much to try and get right and I'm so blown away by the response, as well as reading lovely words like yours. It's made all those long nights worth it
Im surprised you didnt mention that old recording of Arin and Suzy dropping N bombs in an old recording in the controversies part
This video is amazing. And the comment about Jon being genuinely happy with where he is now? I’ve MET Jon, and I gotta say, he is one of the funniest, nicest people I’ve ever encountered. And he honestly does seem, truly happy.
It’s obvious you’ve put in a lot of effort in this. I love documentaries on internet drama, keep it up. It’s crazy how many cartoons that you showed that I was able to recognize. That was my childhood.
This means more than I can possibly communicate to you Justin, Truly
Very well made video, though I find the tone towards Arin a little biased against him. Like the implication that Arin pursued GG over animation solely because it was "easier". This is definitely somewhat true, but it understates how difficult animation is, and how hard it is to be profitable from despite this effort- I can also vouch from personal experience mental health also kills motivation and creativity, which is something Arin's mentioned struggling a lot with. I can't blame him for not wanting to rely primarily on it. I'm sure there's definitely a decent aspect on making money, but it also feels like Arin and Danny genuinely have fun and enjoy what they do.
It also feels weird to paint Arin's distancing to Jontron solely as "PR" or "squeaky clean brand image" when Jon was saying pretty blatantly harmful racist stuff. It feels understandable any creator would want to distance themselves from that, and I find it surprising this is so lightly emphasized. It also feels weird to compare views of videos to say Grumps is far less successful than Jon when you're comparing Jon's rare uploads that naturally draw more attention just based on sparsity to GG's extremely frequent uploads, which is bound to have more spread views.
I did like how organized the video was, it flowed well, and came to a logical conclusion. The biased tone and injection of opinionated and circumstantial topics just feels very derailing at times.
Actually insane how this is your first video essay. INCREDIBLE editing and work! Excited to see more! ❤️
this jon guy sure is funny i wonder what his political views are 🧐
as someone who started watching GameGrumps when John was in, I had always wondered why this happened. I already had a hunch that it had all happened because of things that happened behind closed doors and away from the public eye. Its sad that they had to break apart like this, but they are both succeeding in their own separate careers at least. I definitely can say the dynamic Arin and Danny have is more fluent and they make amazing content together. Art is art at the end of the day and to those that are not part of creating it will always be left wondering why things happen, we are curious creatures after all.
Loved the video! it was very well put, your channel definitely deserves more recognition considering you worked for over a year on this!! keep up the great work!
The fact that this channel only has 256 subscribers is a genuine crime, glad your video got recommended! 💚
Thanks so much for watching
Phenomenal video. It's clear you did your research, and the way you built the story was great. This finally puts my near decade-long curiosity to rest, and I hope Arin and Jon take your video in the best way possible. I have nothing but love for Dan, Arin, Jon, and the rest of the Game Grumps crew, past and present.
When you said this was your first video I could hardly believe it. Good stuff, and I look forward to seeing what else you make, even if it takes another year.
I adore your editing style and I think you've got so much potential as a creator with the theme you've chosen. I'd reccomend getting friends todo voices when reading out posts from Arin or Jon or whoever is in your video, similar to Inside A Mind if you've seen his videos. Are you working with premiere and after effects? and do you have any past YT projects? Overall amazing work dude, can't wait to see you grow even further!
Just wanted to say the editing at 44:48 for the reunion bit gave me chills. I think people really take music for granted in these sorts of videos and your choice here really set the tone for this bit. Absolute perfection. This entire video is a masterpiece and the immense time and effort really shows. Can't wait to see more from you!
Thank you so much for your comments on this bit of the video, For me and everyone else watching that Starcade ep, the pang of nostalgia and emotion was something I absolutely wanted to capture in this video. The track I used was sitting at the end of my timeline for months as I worked my way to it as I knew after listening to it just how much it matched the feeling. Appreciate you and thank you for your kind words and sharing that with me
Agreed. Had to double take there. Any idea what the name of the song is
It's Trevor Kowalski rest upon the edge :)
You KNOW a channel is good when it has a TV SHOW QUALITY INTRO.
Amazing editing man. Big inspiration for what I wanna make in the future.
That means so much to me! Thank you so much! Lots of great stuff to come :D
I always thought it was Jon defending his use of insulting people by calling them "Fags". The 3rd time it happened in an episode there were Captions from the editor expressing that GameGrumps didn't agree with Jon's language/thoughts on Queer folk. Things ended shortly after. Clearly there was a lot more going on but this was my personal canon at the time based on just watching the episodes. >__
Probably not what it actually said considering "queer folk" wasn't common parlance at the time. But regardless, Arin's said the same thing, Dan said the same thing, Arin had a gay man gaslighted for criticising Dream Daddy's insincere use of queer characters with Brian and Suzy publicly denying he ever saw the game. Matt Watson later confirmed said gay man absolutely saw the game.
Arin doesn't genuinely care that much about it, he's defending a brand. That's often the root of each controversy he gets embroiled in.
At the end of the day no business ever cares about you or your rights. As soon as pride logos weren't predicted to be investor friendly, almost every brand under the sun suddenly declined to use them this year, all at once.
i remember the news of jon leaving being crushing for me back then
Me too, I can totally remember exactly where I was at the time. Appreciate you my man, thanks for watching ❤️
it's kinda crazy how Jon's original vision for GameGrumps future in 2013 is what ended up happening after Arin's Creator Hub idea was abandoned in 2019.
if Jon never made those horrible comments on Destiny's stream we probably would have seen a couple reunion episodes on the channel with Arin, Dan and Jon by now.
Thank you for making this video. it was so fun to watch
Good to see you my man! Thanks so much for swinging by and for your lovely comments! I know, I totally agree with you. It's a relationship that seems long since expired. Always interesting to think what if :-) Thanks so much for your comment, It means more to me than I could ever say
I think Arin screwed Jon out of half the Game Grumps brand. I remember Arin joking about Jon was "fartner" instead of partner in the contract.
Thanks for watching! I think Jon really felt that way too you know. It all got to the point where he had enough of feeling like he was supporting someone elses' dream rather than committing to something with equal say. This is (at least the sources I've followed) what all evidence points to at least.
Hey, Great video! but fyi there is some clipping on your audio recordings when you are narrating quotes from tweets with that noise filter on. I thought it was on my end but I switched headphones and turned off all post processing and still heard it. It happens at beginning of new words and on P's mostly. might just be an issue of adding a pop filter? Cheers
Can't believe this is your first video well done man. As someone who saw all this go down from outside the fandom this really did a good job walking people through what really happened. It was hard to piece it all together as it happened so this was really helpful and very entertaining.
Just a very quick note tho. Your audio had some big pops in it in your voiceover a few times. It's a super small thing but your video was otherwise awesome ❤
I've seen a lot about John's controversies, so I was expecting more of a jab at John. It really does seem to just be creative differences and a falling out between friends/co-workers. Thank you for the video!
Thanks so much for watching and for your comments! It's a super interesting story because on the surface it really was what they were saying, but with all the baggage that came with it that led to this situation. Appreciate you for watching
This is so fascinating, as someone who started watching the show since Dan joined. I'm glad that Arin and Jon seem to have found some peace between themselves several years down the line.
The Jon and ego raptor drama is indicative of the weird place the internets in right now. Creators are more and more heading towards the direction of making their channels more corporate in nature, due to the multiple financial benefits this brings, however very few creators are actually willing or able to be professional about these sort of things. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a creator going either direction but trying to be both at the same time leads to this sort of drama.
Bro you need to back up from the mic you don’t need to put the mic in your mouth back up a bit and your audio will sound so much batter
Amazingly enough I've watched all your showreel videos before this popped up, but I'm here for your journey. You already know 90% of the audience for the other vids are people rewatching and enjoying the content of the other UA-camrs, so I'll be that x10 for you. Keep up the great work, you're much more than just an editor. Long form content can often become rambly, but your way of transitioning from topic to topic and having a clear conclusion makes the video just feel so awe inspiring, you could talk about the evolution of elastic bands in socks and I'd be impressed an intrigued all the way through
Wow! This is probably one of the nicest things I've ever read! Thank you so much! That's mad how you've seen my work elsewhere before with my showreel! Small world hahaha!
This video took over 1 year to put together in terms of R&D and it's been worth all the effort when I get to read comments like yours, so thank you so much for your viewership and your lovely words. I cannot begin to tell you how much both mean to me. The next video is in the works now and I hope you'll love it :D
@@itscassette I'll try being the first comment on that video then! Even if it won't be out for another year😉
As a fan of both Game Grumps and JonTron: I think you leaned a bit too much into making out Jon as the proverbial "hero" of your video, and Arin as a "villain" in your conclusion. Protecting the brand is not necessarily a bad thing, and with how different the Internet became over the past 10 years, I think you're a bit biased towards portraying Jon as this starving artist who escaped the clutches of a megalomaniac, whereas I never got that impression: at least not from the facts as represented in the video. Your choice of words and some of the information you represented also seem to go in favour of JonTron from a more personal standpoint. That's pretty much my only pet peeve about your essay.
All that being said, this, it was a fantastic video to watch! Comprehensive and to the point, I've seen a lot of gossip around this situation but never a solid, coherent timeline or a non-clickbaity take on it. You have my sub, and I hope it doesn't take you another year for another upload! (but if it does, I'll be patiently waiting because I know it will be worth it)
Hi! Thanks so much for your comment and for your feedback on the video, Truly it means more to me than you can know.
I hope you'll accept a little bit of backstory as to why I worded things the way I did and why some factors were given a bit of a lighter touch than others! :)
My intention was to try to offer a neutral offering with a perspective from Jon as to why he left without falling into another drama video discussing Jon's absolutely with no other way around it, appalling remarks on the Destiny stream. I do understand that on the surface it looks like I'm saying Arin is a one dimensional bad guy but I want it to be absolutely clear I firmly believe both Arin and Jon have made right calls in their outcomes from the split as well as their own issues.
Arin's PR focus was a factor that ultimately pushed Jon away (Hence why JON left game grumps, as opposed to Why the Game Grumps split up). Naturally this video would always have an angle on Jon's view on being ostracised from something he founded which naturally is going to make anyone sour. Jon felt like he had no other choice in the matter and this is why he committed to a cross country move.
Arin's PR focus also is the exact (maybe in some cases sole) reason that Game Grumps continued past that point. He turned it from a podcast into an empire that attracted huge name recognition throughout YT, And that's to be totally commended
This video was originally a LOT longer with more in depth segments but I chose to cut back purely out of the reason of building a profile of why jon left (Fitting the video title) without extra content that's already been summarised. Talking about Jon's comments on the livestream links directly to a friendship reforming being dashed between them which is crucial in the grand scheme of things as it explains how Arin sees how himself and GG is viewed as paramount and it also indicates why Jon will never come back after we saw the two together again, which also indicates a repeat almost of why the two fell out to begin with
Again I hope you can understand my reasons behind this, and I hope with a little bit of clarification on the matter from my perspective it's a bit easier for you to understand why things were worded the way they were -- and even though this rubbed you the wrong way I do want to seriously thank you for giving it a go regardless, This video has been a LOT of hard work with writing, research, development, There were 18 different versions of this video alone that got cut!
Again thank you for leaving your thoughts, I'll aim to make future points not just that much more impartial but also clearer why I angle things the way I do
@@itscassette Oh hey! So nice of you to reply, thank you so much! And thank you for your words, though I feel bad that you figured it was necessary to reply to this, I understand why you did, and the clarification is very much appreciated. With it, I understand how I might've gotten the wrong impression out of something as simple as word choice.
All this being said, I just want to once again reiterate how much I enjoyed it - I cannot even imagine the amount of work that went into creating a coherent timeline of the events around the two and their ambitions (not to mention all the drama), and in spite of my original comment, I do recognize that you tried you best to be fair and impartial during all of it, and I think the vast majority of your viewers and commenters did, too.
Thank you so much for replying, and your words! I can't wait to see more of your content, and keep up the fantastic work
@@Binkyouka I appreciate that so much!! Nothing but love ❤️
This is the best and most comprehensive video I’ve seen on this topic. 14 year old me would be thrilled. Playing that remix at the end sent me to the nostalgia zone.
Does anyone know the name of the song used in the "origin of egoraptor" section? I think I've heard it sampled in a rap song before
Man I remember being waist deep in all this stuff as it was happening. It was a pretty wild time and this was a nice summary of it. I thought it was great how you really didn't take sides against either party at any point and just told the story.
One thing that makes me sad about this situation that I don't see people talk about a whole lot is that when Jon left Game Grumps, he seemed to split with Barry too. Those dudes were friends since high school, and whether Barry was part of the NDA too or what, he, to my knowledge, never talked about Jon again and never got that moment like Jon and Arin had on Starcade. I always wondered what happened between them because they were definitely bros well before all of this, right along with a bunch of other creators.
Danny is honestly my favorite grump. Took me a while to come around but NSP hits harder than any of the other music either Arin or Jon have made. His life experience is more relatable and he's so damn funny
I don't care for NSP, but Danny is easily my favorite of the Grumps (though I haven't watched in years). Jon was good but the Jon-Arin stuff is from over 10 years ago so I dunno how much holds up, where as Danny was always just a cool laid back dude.
Don't care for Arin's random beatboxing and "poo poo peepee fart!!" jokes though.
@@ghhn4505 well unfortunately, you have to admit that a lot of what comes from dan's comedy (especially as he often plays into the straightman role) is BECAUSE of arins "random beatboxing and "poo poo peepee fart!!" jokes"
it's like he lived a life before sitting in a box with a manchild playing video games
Congratulations on this video, man. I know there are many similarly titled videos out there but this is the one. Very well researched and very well produced. The Johnny Cash documentary style intro cracked me up and the Jon Wins outro is a perfect selection. Also love the channel's nostalgic analog theming.
I've been watching Game Grumps since I was a kid and for the longest time I never knew Jon was even in the show, but like idk the whole things seems blown out of proportion, and with the drop in views, tbh I feel like their 10 minute power hour makes up for it
Incredible job, man. I think this has got to be the best video I've seen about this so far. Such a bizarre situation this was. I never did understand the NDA and why they were so weird about not discussing anything. It seems to me if nothing really happened, and it was just creative differences, then there's no reason to act like they did. I mean I get Arin just wanting to move on with Game Grumps and not dwell on Jon's absence since there wasn't much to be done about it either way. But why'd Jon keep saying he can't talk about it if it was always just creative differences? That was basically the story from the start, what about it can't he discuss? Always confused me. I'm sure the story probably is something as simple as you said but their handling of it was so poor that it just built the mystery up in everyone's heads. And that TotalBiscuit tweet still hasn't left my brain after all these years. "That shit is buried." Way too ominous.
Thanks so so SO much for your incredible words. It's comments like yours that made all the R&D and countless hours of work worthwile, I mean it
What is it with almost every video on this topic seeming to paint a narrative of Jon as a victim? The dude has a track record of passive-aggressive vague posting on Twitter about a myriad of subjects, the guy genuinely seems incredibly difficult to deal with and it always confuses me why Arin is constantly painted as the sterile, corporate shill while Jon is the authentic good guy.
The video otherwise was good but I just don't really get this narrative. There are way too many instances of Jon showing his bad side in public, even outside of what was mentioned in this video, to list them all but I followed GG for a while and honestly after all was said and done, the impression I got was that Arin was a victim of a drama queen who acted and spoke constantly on instinct and had naturally negative views about a lot of things. I seriously don't get why I never see it brought up how much he passive-aggressively uses platforms like Twitter and Reddit to take jabs at people on GG at every turn whereas GG has only ever said positive things, barring the response to his neo-nazi spiel.
But would you say Jon is a bad person?
@@Jepze158 ye
I remember as a kid when he still had his "Overrated Games" list thinking "Wow, he words this like his opinion is law and it doesn't feel joke-y like his other stuff. That's unexpectedly crappy."
Took a long time for me to really accept he was just going to become kind of a fascist dick, but deep down the signs were there from the start. :/
Yeah, I agree. I really don't like that this is being framed as "oh, Aaron was just being a stick in the mud and overly PC" when Jon was saying the N word, made white supremacist statements, and pulled around with white supremacists (some being full nazis now). Like I understand what it's like working with another and being burdened with creative differences. However Jon is responsible for his own problems after the make up, and I'm sure the issues before are equally the fault of each other.
@@truelocomax2804 Really? It is not like he advocated to kill any minorities.
I'm about halfway through this video, I'm really appreciating the level of quality you gave to this. I was always a little left in the dark about Jon's departure, but you gave me a really nice viewpoint of why it happened. I do have to ask you though, do you have the list of music you used for the video? Its really good stuff!
At the end of the day. This was honestly the best for everyone involved.
Jon works best writing his own material and some of his best videos are his post videos
Dan is great. Playing the straight man to arins shenagains is a role he fit perfectly.
I hope they keep civil.
So, they really weren't lying when they said it was creative differences. Sure it involved a lot of underlying details, muddying waters, a slew of emotions, and even a potential physical altercation in private...but at the end of the day, a proper "tl;dr" would indeed be that it was just creative differences. Gosh.
I think that's the beauty of it by design. They've never lied but purposefully been ambiguous all the way. It really is a shame that they had such a falling out, I think in hindsight this would always would have happened with how their personalities and takes on life are so opposing - the very reason that keeps them apart now.
Appreciate you so much for watching
@@itscassette It stings even more when you step back and realize that...despite how they likely wouldn't have worked out in the best of circumstances, coming together to create Game Grumps basically kickstarted both of their careers for better or worse.
Hell, despite being an early adopter of the internet, I personally wasn't familiar with Egoraptor, JonTron, Normal Boots, or Newgrounds until Game Grumps came along. I suspect many many others were as well.
@@sauvagess What's your suspicion based on? Because Newgrounds was very well known in the pre-youtube era and I suspect your suspicion is tainted by personal anecdotes than actual research.
@@symbiote1982pk ...It's based on the very video that this comment is on. Did you watch it?
Bravo! This video was absolutely wonderful! I'm excited to see what you make in the future because this was so incredibly well made!
Edit: I really really wish Jon never went on that stream with Destiny, I really wonder where we would be now with the Grumps stuff if that never happened.
Wow! What a genuinely lovely comment to receive! Thanks so much for watching this video, and I’m beyond thrilled that you enjoyed it! This video took over one year to complete and with comments like yours it made it all worthwhile. The next one is in the works now and I hope you’ll love it as much as this one ❤️
I also echo your sentiments with the destiny podcast completely. It genuinely interests me too what would have been had he not acted so impulsively
This was really well put together, but it really feels so heavily skewed towards Jon, which given the parasociality of online content makes some sense, you are going to end up on one side or the other I guess.
But, from following a number of Let's Play channels with more than one host from back in the day, I would say you are missing a big element in this with how you frame it. For Jon, Jontron was his principle outlet. For Arin, Grumps was the principal. Arin didn't just stop making animations because Grumps was easier, the ad/algorithm changes on UA-cam were already starting to push out the animators who has become very popular with long to produce short form content and was pushing serial long form content like Let's Plays at the time.
So yeah, Jon also had some safety in his long form/medium to produce content, whereas Arin had to make Grumps work. Because at the end of the day, you have to eat, you have to pay rent, etc. We all used to laugh at being able to make a living playing video games, but honestly putting in the amount of hours needed to make this kind of content and following trends and arranging your life around this kind of stuff is work. And with almost every Let's Play channel, if you are just recording LPs all day, you are going to want to try to expand out of that. You may have filmmaking aspirations like Markiplier, you may want to be more like a host figure, or you may just need something to break up the monotony.
So while you can just say Arin was only in it for the money and brand, you can also say this is someone who used to be an animator (a hard but very creative form), who is now doing something different and easier, but still wants to feel like he is progressing his career in some way.
Also there is a fair amount of handwaving Arin's relative progessive stances as just some sort of secure branding. While I do think it does have that effect, I think Arin was also just generally a bit less edgy and a bit more progressive then some of his contemporaries that came out of the NG era. And while Jon didn't go fully off the deep end after his initial weird racist tirade on that podcast (koodos to him on good brand management too), he does seem to be an edgier and less progressive person. I'm not here to pass judgement on that persay, outside of those comments being despicable, but just because Jon says some absolutely wack and impulsive things doesn't mean that Arin considering what he says and does makes him a bad person.
Anyways, great work on the construction and styling, very nice work.
The one thing not brought up in this video which should have, especially with including that other dude taking Jon's remarks personal because he's the son of immigrants, is that Jon is also the son of immigrants. Found it kinda odd not to mention that when it fits and makes some context a bit clearer - Jon is DEFINITELY more nuanced than KKK-type hillbillies on these issues, think of his statements what you will.
Where did that clip come from of Arin and Jon in the space suits?
Very interesting video! Although we might never know what really happened between them, I'm glad we can at least get pretty close. I'm one of those fans that actually preferred Danny over Jon from the beginning, so while I never really cared enough to go too deep into this, I was interested in what happened and I'm glad there are videos like this.
Thank you so much for watching and for your lovely words! I absolutely agree that some details will only be possible if one of the two spill the beans. And owing to how their attitudes with each other have deteriorated so much that may not ever happen, especially when the opportunity to mudsling comes around
Paper trail wise however, we can get pretty close to the core of the matter which is something I didn't ever find being done on UA-cam before, hence why I put all this work into this video hahaha!
Again thanks so much for your comment. It means more to me than I can possibly tell you