40145 Cold Start
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- Dave Peacock starts 40145 up in cold conditions, in readiness for a loco shunt.
Both 40145 and 50015 were moved to Buckley Wells, where 40145 was inspected and cleared for running on the East Lancs Ambassador railtour, involving two class 40s along the length of the ELR, followed by a non-stop run to Edinburgh with 40145.
A video showing the loco move will be available shortly...
I just love the sound of the turbos coming up to life...
me to, this things alive
Me 3
This was like watching James Stewart fire up the Phoenix (c'mon girl, c'mon).
I'm not an enthusiast by any stretch, but these beasties used to keep me awake on a warm summer night and on 'til early morning. Not because they were annoying, but because the sound was so addictive, and the station is a good half mile away.
Took me ages to nail down which loco was responsible, and without youtube I couldn't have done it.
So great to hear that sound again! 5 stars from me.
Most eargasmic loco coldstart I have found to date. Used to listen to this daily back a few years ago...just awesome.
This video is one of, if not the best cold start of these trains on youtube.. it has everything. that cold lifeless cranking, building heat, then firing, with fireworks and an awesome sound.
you might enjoy 50049 start up derby 19 3 18 they really are having trouble.
This is and will be for a very long time one of favorite cold start vids I have ever seen!
i love the sound , it sounds like music to my ears
Makes me want to become a train engineer seeing this. What a beautiful sound and sight.
To clarify further: English Electric engines don't have cylinder pre-heaters, unlike German engines of the time that were used in some other locos. This is why they have trouble starting from cold, as effectively the starter motor is used to heat the cylinders enough to let one or two of them fire. The "hunting" at cold idle is probably due to the cold governor being sluggish to react - this runs off the engine oil which is still very cold. Once warmed up, it all behaves normally.
@3DPeter Hi Peter, This engine is definitely not worn out at all, it has not long ago been fully rebuilt. It is only smoking like this because of the excess fuel that has built up in the exhaust system. When this does finally burn it does so very inefficiently but the smoke soon clears once all cylinders are firing. If it was burning oil in the way you say, it would run away with catastrophic consequences. So dont make ill researched comments about something people have worked very hard on.
THIS deserves more views=) but hugs to all that find this masterpiece=)
Thankyou for the reply. It sounds very much like alco power cranking over in the winter,
@rechelieu Well said! In any case no diesel would start at Siberian temperatures. They are fitted with block heaters to make sure they start at all, they do that in Canada as well I believe. The engine in the class 40 when running hot and set up correctly are very clean burning engines. The emergency supply for the Post Office Tower in London uses three 16SVT engines and they are not allowed to emit smoke at all!
Top clag, I bet the locals loved this!
The 37s and 40s with the large BR logo look so good....
@joha77johaa The idle governor on these things gets its data from the oil pressure; as the oil is cold and thick the pressure is higher than normal so the governor think it's revving faster than it really is. So it cuts the engine back. Then of course the pressure drops so it revs up again - and cuts it back - and revs it up and so on. All settles down as the oil warms up
Thats a great sample for a drum and bass track right there
Benjamin Hill, Some British locos take ages to start now because they don't have engine pre-heaters fitted. They were designed to be in use most of the time and never cooled down to the temperatures they are started from now in preservation. When in regular service they start on the button with ease. This loco is a Class 40 and has an English Electric 16SVT MKII engine fitted. It is a 2000hp engine and has 16 cylinders all of which are 15.445 Litres displacement. In US terminology that's 942 cu in per cylinder. Not easy to start from dead cold.
To give you an idea on how long technology takes to catch up to today's standards EMD/Progress Rail finally has a tier 4
compliant engine they can sell. The old 2 stroke 710G class engine wouldn't pass tier 4 standards without after exhaust
treatment. EMD didn't want to use that system so they had to design with Caterpillar a new locomotive engine EMD's first
4 stroke engine. EMD used the same basic two stroke platform since 1939 and went progressively like this
Each engine model is the cubic inch displacement per cylinder 567 in v-6 thru v-16 idle 275 rpm to 800-900 rpm
645 v-8 -12 -16 v-20
710 series v-12 to v-20 rated max was 5000 hp
New SD70ACe-T4 rated at 4400 hp with the new 1010 4 stroke engine multiple turbos 1010 cubic inches per cylinder NO
After engine exhaust treatment required. Max rpm is 1000
Long live the two stroke engine the two stroke is dead. EMD will continue to make parts for all the 2 strokes they made
As that is really their core business PARTS is profit.
Bow to the god of clag, mortals!
Hooray! There's a new Pope!
Love this startup. Each engine is distinct and depends on cylinder/injector condition. What little heat is in the atmosphere is compressed into a small space, raising the temperature to ignite as much atomized fuel as is present. The best cylinder injector combo starts this off and hopefully others will lend help as pressure seals off the rings and cylinder heat builds from cranking. The motorman holds back on the fuel rack to prevent too much fuel from cooling things off.
Beautiful! Complete with flames as well!
Excellent sound ! Thanks for sharing.
Love hearing those turbos come on song!
A class 40 has 16 cylinders, each with a 10" bore, hardly the size of a coffee table. It's an English Electric 12SVT (Turbocharged V aligned Traction unit). Trust me, I work voluntarily as a fitter on 40012 ;-)
So it’s the 16svt then?
Perfection sounds amazing and that noise will always haunt me.
s wiwnemdldd dld d dlele edoemeownw w
aaaaaaaaoowow soskw apalaaaaaaaaa☺😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😇😇😇😇😇😂😂😂😂😂
Ngaba unokubeka le ngxelo ngolunye ulwimi? Andikwazi ukuqonda isi-Icelandic
You have to wait for the engine to pick up revs first, usually about 20 minutes depending on various factors.
@joha77johaa: An answer to your question. Because it was so cold, the throttle was opened slightly to allow the fuel to flow through the engine better. Because of this sudden change, the engine builds up the revs and looses them again as the power is overloaded, and so the process repeats.
The engine run fines in idle, and many british locos have a similar fault when started in cold conditions.
@Rainhill1829 - The fire bell rings like a fire bell in a building would. If there's a fire in the engine room, the bell would ring. The bell usually tinkles a few times when the engine starts because of how everything is wired up, but when the engine is constantly being turned to get it fired up, the bell is still being rung as part of the starting circuit.
Some real foot tapping rhythms and love the turbo spooling up. How many gallons went straight out the exhaust . Magic hahaÀ
Now, Thats one cold starting momma.
The King/Queen of Clag and what a monster cold start.. The sound of a Beast
Merci pour le commentaire. Enfin, une langue que je comprends!
no some are in preservation - the severn valley railway has two which can be used for heritage purposes or for main line use if they wanted
worked many of these locos when I worked for BR the D300's then class 40's then re-introduced as the class 97's. Bloody good loco.
commonly known to us as the whisslers
good old english electrics when we knew how to build engines What happened.
remember we use to work them coupled in multi to a class 25 we use to call them combo's then you would see some shite come out of them when you fired them up :-D
he was starting that up wrong battery switch in then key in select engine only wait for priming pumps to stop then turn her over why she took so long to start think that driver needs revision on that traction ;-)
only loco you had to scotch when stabling as hand brakes were useless
@singletrackmatt Before the cylinders fire up, the diesel is forced to the exhaust by the piston. When it gets in contact with the frozen exhaust pipe, it becomes liquid again. (Exactly the same happens with cold cola cans and steam). When the cylinders fire up at last, there is already much diesel concentrated in the exhaust pipes. The fire from the cylinders ignite it and that΄s why we see the fire.
a 50 year old locomotive, on a very cold day, I think it's actually very healthy!
Awesome vid. Those starters had to work for it!
still the best cold start of these beasts i can find on here...
This type (Class 40) was well known for the whistling sound of the turbochargers at idle. And as a diesel-electric, it does have a governor as part of the main control gear - the other half of which is the load regulator which adjusts the generator field strength.
There is something beautiful about these old English diesels. They are not the pretties looking locos but they have a character. I love looking at them. American locos are not the prettiest either, but who said they need to be pretty. Nice engine.
@joha77johaa The governors these old engines use are controlled by oil pressure. When the engine is cold the oil is thick, this causes the governor to be slow in reacting to the change in crankshaft speed and consequently to adjust the fuel rack to obtain a smooth idle. When the oil warms up and becomes thinner, the governor can control the fuel rack quicker and so get a smooth idle.
Never gets old
This is total class........wonder if anyone recorded it for their DCC sound model rail class 40?
what a great cold start!!
@MihalisNavara Makes perfect sence. While prime-ing ( or engine purging) raw fuel makes its way into the exaust manifold... when the power cell is not burning the fuel, it becomes waist and ignights aft of the power stroke causing a spontainious igition... Physics at its best. Great feed back. I Love to learn.
@gw4pjq Greetings from U.S. Yes, American locs might not be the best lookers, but their beauty is not to be questioned. I love them! That power is hypnotizing sometimes. And I fell in love with these old Brit locs. I enjoy listening looking at them as well.
Great vid, loving all the comments re the engine should have this and that yet I`d guess most of the people that have made such comments dont realize that the engine design goes way back to the 1940s with the 16SVT Mk1 that was in LMS 10000 and most of the technology hadnt been thought of back then
there must be a hell inside. fantastic start up!
Glowplugs. No not a silly question but a good idea........ until you consider the size of this engine. Each cylinder is 10 inches in diameter with a stroke of 12 inches and there are 16 cylinders. Because the cylinders are so big there is a "pocket" of well insulated hot air in the cylinder so unlike a small engine it will fire eventually. Remember when these were in revenue earning service they were kept in warmer engine sheds. Also cold air is denser so that will compensate for the "cold".
Compression pressure varies a lot on a worn engine and that is all a diesel has to heat up the air hot enough to burn the atomized fuel. In cold weather, the worn rings, worn injectors just don't make for easy starting. All that white smoke is unburnt fuel. The first hard puff is the highest compression, best injector combo to get enough heat to fire off. Then the heat builds until the next one goes, etc. Governor engine rpm hunting is normal when cold.
The bell sounds as a warning to make sure no one has a naked flame anywhere near the loco at start up. All that white stuff you see coming out of the exhaust ports before the engine fires is Diesel vapour and air. Do I need to explain the hazard further?
That's my favourite "engine-start"-movie. Awesome.
Oh thats why envionmentalists hated the Deltics... Awe inspiring video, great sights and sound from this old beast!
Great video, love the flaming!!!!!
She was COLD! Reminds me of an old Cat D-8H I used to run. It started about like this, one pop at a time!
Good Tractor that along with the 8k.
Never ran a K but I don't like suspended pedals much.@@paulnolan1352
@canellenac "The origins of the Class 40 fleet lay in the prototype diesel locomotives (Types D16/1 ordered by the London, Midland and Scottish Railway and British Railways and D16/2 ordered by British Railways between 1947 and 1954) and most notably with the Southern Region locomotive No. 10203, which was powered by English Electric's 16SVT MkII engine developing 2,000 bhp (1,460 kW). The bogie design and power train of 10203 was used almost un-changed on the first ten production Class 40."
What a beast! I wish my motorbike sounded like this!
All locomotives start like this, with all the clag (smoke). Most of the time, these things are run continuously except for maintenance and repairs.
In the States, we often have to use ether to cold-start a diesel. There are a couple of problems with that, however: 1) a cylinder can blow open!; 2) a mechanic once told me, "Once you start using ether on a diesel, it's like alcohol to an alcoholic -- they just want more!"
Sure the neighbours will have loved this
@Xenon3149 Nope, the Class 40s were fitted with English Electric 16SVTs.
Class 55s were fitted with the Napier Deltics.
The whistling you're hearing are the turbochargers winding up. If they had electronic common rail fuel injection, that white smoke at start up would just about disappear.
saw the flame at 2:35? :D
@teniszguru No, the Deltic was fitted to the Class 55. This is the EE16SVT.
The need for Ether or Start-Pilote in US-Industrial Diesels is caused by two factors: US-made diesels use a lower compression rate compared to European or Japanese industrial diesels. US-Industrial diesels are often equiped with injection systems with a late and single flow fuel injection. Even in good condition these motors will have trouble to coldstart without preheating or other starting help. The benefit of low compression is a much lower peak-load on bearings and piston rings.
You need a mains-powered engine pre-heater. It would save a lot of wear and tear on the battery.
Actualy the white smoke is not smoke. It's amotized diesel that has not ignited, if it could be captured you could put it right back in the tank.
@florianska6 This locomotive is maintained to the highest possible standard, as it is a UK Mainline registered loco, meaning it has to be on top form 100% of the time. It it fails just 1 part of a fitness to run exam before a railtour, the loco is declared as unusable. Nothing gets by un-noticed. As I have said before, the technology is well into it's 60th year of operating, and I can CERTAINLY vouch for the freezing cold temperatures.
Holy smokes!
And it took until 1:55 for turbo to finally start spinning.
@marklandynut
The engine is worn out, because the reason that it smokes so much when cold, is because of worn out piston rings. Now that's no problem, because as soon the engine warms up, the pistons will expand just enough to stop the oil blowing by the pistons, and then the smoking wil stop, and the engine can run for years like that, only it wil use a lot of oil, witch is cheaper than overhauling the engine.
Wrong. Smoke is unburnt fuel because it is cold. Nothing to do with piston rings. If piston rings were worn you would get high crankcase pressure and fuel in the oil (fuel dilution) which is bad.
@D335Media Alright then: if the UK isn't cold enough, and you reckon Poland is, point us to a video of a diesel engine starting in your kind of cold. Personally I'd just like to see snow PROPERLY in certain parts of Australia where it does fall! For us, snow is rather a novelty, and very rarely do we see trains in it. :-(
This engine could really use a valve rework and adjustment (Exhaust valves are worn). Nearly all exhaust valves lose lots of compression (The hissing sound when the starting motor turns the motor with lots of smoke and no combustion) Since these motors are even in perfect condition low on compression rate and hence end-of-compression-temperatures every bar (PSI) counts
They don’t have Starter Motors, they have an auxiliary winding in the auxiliary Generator which when contacted turns the Engine over.
"When the turbo starts to whistle" If I had a pound for every time I heard that comment, I would be a rich man. Lets put this myth to bed.
There are four turbochargers on the 16 cylinder engine in a Class 40, but you dont hear them whistle. The distinctive whistling sound that characterises these truly great locomotives comes from the air moving through the radiators, air ducts and the roof mounted fan. I was involved with 40106 and once we temporarily disconnected the fan. NO WHISTLE!
Makes sense, other EE engines like the 8SVT which I’d assume is half of a 16SVT and the 16CSVT which I’d assume has the same firing order don’t whistle so it can’t be turbos or firing order.
Amazing turbo sound.
I can't be the only one thinking,come on old girl go go go!
Now that;s a cold start, You guys in England know how to do it.
@ASS3464 its the turbos they got in them mate.
Gently dose it with grand old gals sound stunning warming up
@MihalisNavara - That's the fuel pump priming the engine for starting.
Icredible emissios. but i love big engines and the sound is wounderful.
@pznerd - It's a very costly way of keeping it going.. especially when seen as it's a preserved line, it wouldn't be attended to 24 hours a day.
The machine your talking about, over here is known as a Pre-Heater.
@joha77johaa This behavior is quite common in many different diesel engines. When the lube oil is cold, the governor is a bit "sticky" letting the revs build up a bit too much before it reacts and then letting the revs to drop too much. This fixes it self when the oil heats up a bit :-)
@D335Media unlike a Western were the engine has to be preheated
Most locos do pre-heat, but certianly most of the more modern stuff just has a higher tolerance to cold.
I'm not an expert, but.....
Unlike petrol engines that use a spark plug (electric) to ignite the fuel/air mixture, diesel engines depend on the extreme heat generated when the diesel/air mixture is compressed. Unfortunately, if the engine is very cold, the mixture just doesn't get hot enough to actually ignite on it's own.
That's why you have a 'diesel' batteries for cars, that have a larger capacity and tend to give more "umpfh" to the starter motor, for longer starts.
Fantastic!
Let's hear it for preheaters........!
That was nice to watch!Sounded good,,
English Electric 16SVT meaning:
16 = number of cylinders
S = turbocharger (supercharger)
V = V engine
T = traction
It's the idle governor being fooled by cold oil into thinking the engine is revving too high, so it cuts it back. Then the oil pressure drops so it revs up again, and off we go again . . . .
Settles down when the oil warms up
@bebajoro77 sorry, didnt know you already answered, i wish YT would stop messing with the page set-up, its crap!
Nice flame at 2.36 !
@6995133 with that much rotating mass and bearing surfaces to be primed with oil, I feel slow start up is best
In any case you need the priming pump to get oil pressure to the engine governor to open the fuel racks. No point turning over the engine and draining the batteries until there is oil pressure at the governor (and of course all the bearings). Note that whilst the engine is turning the battery volts are low so the priming pump runs slowly with low pressure to the governor. Wise folk waited until they heard the oil pressure switch click out at full pressure before they pressed the start button
cant understand why they dont put heaters somehow circulating the water in the engine while its not running in the cold weather so it starts easier in the cold
@florianska6 i dont think theres an electric, that can pull the weight these thigns can. nor the transmission lines, or the third rails or other methods of power transmission in place. yet
Wonder if that set off the smoke alarm in that house. Amazing!
Diesel eng use compression to produce heat to ignite the fuel , the colder it is the harder to produce this heat , kinda like trying to start a fire by rubbing 2 sticks together , once the engine is warm the fuel fiers easer with the heat of the engine.
sounds like a good idea but it,s probley the cost of doing it to the sod it just start it cold way of thinking that puts a stop to it
Oh yeah, thats the spirit 👍
@ASS3464 Simple- they don't know the words to the song. Electric locomotives hum for the same reason.