A Roman Catholic vs Protestant understanding of James 2 | WRETCHED
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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How is this difficult to understand? You are saved by grace/faith...your rewards are from works. This is obvious if you've read the whole Bible and not cherry pick certain verses to make your case.
I can't express my faith to the same degree by works because I am severely handicapped from autoimmume disease. Would God be just to keep me from building treasure and rewards in heaven by letting me contract diseases?
I don't think so.
God looks at the heart. An able-bodied person can express that which is in heart.
@@phetmoz You are misinterpreting examples of works. Donating to Mission trips, hosting a Bible study, preaching the word to others, adhering to Biblical teachings, attending or watching church, , so many examples of works you can do to Glorify Jesus. God Bless!
Catholic equation of salvation
Faith + works = salvation
Biblical equation of salvation
Faith = salvation + works
Ephesians is talking about justification before God.
James is talking about justification before men.
Im sorry brother but i dont think your understanding is complete. For example, Matthew 25:35-40 talks about justification before God and is not just faith - actually it only talks about the fruits of faith, works.
Firstly, your equations are wrong. In your biblical equation, Faith = salvation + works, would lead to "salvation = faith - works" which doesnt make sense. The Catholic equation also doesnt make sense. Really - mathematically - think about it.
Secondly, the Catholic church doesnt teach that "faith + works = salvation". It teaches that faith is God's grace, that lets you cooperate with the Holy Spirit and give fruits, fruits with which you are justified like in Matthew 25:35-40.
Thirdly, - if you are willing to truly relfect - your understanding is the same as the Catholic. The only equation that makes sense - at least to me - is:
Sacrifice of Jesus -> Faith -> Works (fruits) -> Salvation (faith leads to works which lead to salvation).
This is both biblical (aka protestant) and Catholic. But sure, lets all stay prideful (all those Catholics teach false Gospel, right)... Or perhapse let's find a way to the unity. I mean, Paul calls us to be of one mind. Or do we not want to pursue to this bible verse? Perhaps at least we can recognise that Jesus prays for us to be one as He and the Father is one. Or do we also not want to pursue this bible verse? Do we at least want to pray for those who we think are in error, or do we just want to be pointing out their error because it feels good to our egos?
We see many examples of salvation prior to any water baptism and any works. Yet many people will argue with you despite not being able to provide scripture to support their claim. When they do it's one taken out of context because you can easily use scripture to show them how they have it wrong.
@swim96ful Titus 3:5
Ephesians 2:8-10
1 Peter 3:21
Acts 10:42-48
Salvation is free and not by works.
The works that should come AFTER salvation because it's the fruit are the works that were created for us ahead of time to do and not our own.
Of course we also have many more including the good theif
@@dano8613 Salvation is free and not by works. Completely agree brother. The verses you provided. Completely agree with them too. The works are fruit of the works. Completely agree. Is there anything that you dont agree with from my comment above though? Asking as your comment mentions my username but i dont see any reference to what i said in my comment. If your comment is just adding to the context, then thanks, I appreciate that. God bless!
@@swim96ful I thought you were arguing against what the other said about salvation being free.
James 2 is really just describing what saving faith is. A faith that is only a profession, and does not bear fruit is not saving faith. It is dead. The problem is this concept is a bit of a narrow balance beam for people, and they often miss close on either side of it....falling into the hyper-grace, "live how you like" category, or the classic catholic "I hope I've done enough" side.
Its not about doing enought its the bare minimum you do because you love if you dont love god you wont follow his teachings because you love yourself more, people are just intelectually disonest about it, our life is a eternal struggle
Even The Devil has Faith in God but doesn't want to obey and do works. That's Protestants line of thinking.
@@philipmarchalquizar7741 Does the devil accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior who gave himself for our sins?
@@iguess2739 the devil believed but shudders. did the bible tell you to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and savior? What Bible verse?
Do you know he build a Church and chooses people to be His Apostles?
Do you know that his Church is built upon the foundation of Apostles and prophets and Christ is the head and the church is his body?
Where in the bible that Christ tells you to read, interpret the bible on your own?
The devils position is to not submit himself to Authority. Roman's 13 let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is NO OTHER AUTHORITY EXCEPT that which GOD already ESTABLISHED.
@@philipmarchalquizar7741 "did the bible tell you to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and savior?"
Yes.
Romans 7:25 "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved." Verses 12 and 13 both go on to call him "Lord".
Titus 2:13 "...our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (Savior here is capitalized because it is one of His titles).
Luke 2:11 "Today in the city of David a Savior was born for you, who is the Messiah, the Lord." (This chapter is on His birth).
His acts define this, saving us from sin:
1 John: 7 and 9, and John 12:47 and 50 (On eternal life)
Jesus gave Himself upon the cross for all of our sins, so that we may have salvation, thus He is called "Savior". He is of the Trinity, God, and deserves the title "Lord".
You are trying to equivocate Protestants belief with the devil by not wanting to do [good] works or obey God. This is absolutely untrue. Protestants want to obey God and they want to do good works. But on the question of salvation, Protestants believe that you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. The devil does not and will not do this. So, when you say that the devil has faith in God, it is not the same faith as a Protestant, Orthodox, or Catholic.
We are not saved by faith alone. And we are.
God reaches out to us with totally undeserved grace. But having been saved by that grace, we must respond with works. And I don't mean we are morally required to respond, I mean the universe and universal love compels us. For if we are truly saved, we truly love. And love calls for work.
But it's important to note that prayer is a form of work. So even a quadriplegic can perform works of love through prayer. Who can claim to be saved without prayer?
”For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.“
Isaiah 64:6 NASB. We are saved by Grace there’s nothing we can do that will earn our salvation. But because we are born again we adopt the traits from Holy Spirit and at that point it’ll be in our nature to what Holy Spirit tells us to do.
We true Christians do good works because we have been born again, given a new heart, saved. Not to merit salvation. There is no such thing. I'll explain why. For one, if people could merit salvation, Jesus and His sacrifice would be worthless. Secondly, without first being saved, born again, given a new heart, "good" is objective anyway, so the argument that "I do good works to be saved" is null and void because it's based on the human opinion of what good is, which is, in God's eyes nothing but filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6. Jesus Himself said, "Why do you call Me good"? "No one is good but God" Luke 18:19. So how can you, being an unforgiven sinner, because you have to earn salvation, do anything good? Are you better than Jesus? Do you think you can impress God?
James1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Context context context…. James 2:22-23 became “faith alone will save u” context because you ‘sliced’ the verse to fit ur so called ‘context’
In general , the standard of ‘context’ is to understand the story in the ‘whole chapter’ or the ‘whole book’. When you take away James 2:1-20, then the context of ‘James 2:22-23’ is inaccurate 🙂
James described Abraham as “Abraham believed God” because “faith was active along with his works”
His works is part of God’s given mission to him.
Is giving too much effort in correcting the catholic truth, founded by Jesus Himself, is part of God’s given mission for you?
Why do Protestants became catholic when they knew that you based your ‘context’ by slicing verses?
Im proud roman catholik church im watching from phillipines.
Oh, so you believe in works salvation?
Romans 4:1-4. Works don't save.
Grace alone
Faith alone
Scripture alone
Christ alone
All for the Glory of God alone.
Yes Yes Yes!
When I come quickly and my reward is with me?
Revelation 22:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
@mitchellosmer1293
If you're written in the book of life, then you aren't judged by your works concerning Heaven and Hell.
Rev 20v15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I don't know if I'll understand why people insist that Jesus Christ paying for the sins of the world is not enough for people to go to Heaven. Maybe God is just too gracious and merciful that people aren't able to believe that.
5 solas
@@mitchellosmer1293 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV
[10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. [11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [13] every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Faith alone = heresy
Faith has to have works to be true faith. So faith without works is dead. So how is one saved by faith alone if faith is dead without works?
We are saved by the grace of God only. But I agree in order to not lose that grace we must keep Jesus commandment, which include “works”but what is really faith that is alive
@GucciManProductions a working faith :)
@@IHIuddy yes brother that’s the best way to put it.
@@TheRockIsCooking NONO AND NO. JAMES IS TALKING ABOUT A FAITH PROFITABLE TO MEN. READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER. FAITH EITHER DEAD (TO OTHERS) OR ALIVE SAVES. JAMES IS SAYING YALL GET A JOB AND START HELPING EACH OTHER.
@@axxel9626 where does he say “get a job and start helping each other” please quote the verses. Not trying to be smart, genuinely trying to understand your point brother.
Y’all miss some very important things “Sow Seeds” what happens to an olive tree that bears no fruit? I’ll tell ya , revelation 3:16 what happens to the Luke warm ? and what was the last thing commanded by Jesus as he went up to Heaven ?? You really think your salvation allows you to do nothing to sit on your hands? If Once saved always saved is as you say it is why do we have a revelations 316 telling you it’s not as you say it is , because the lukewarm is the hypocrite sitting on the fence what does God feel about hypocrites 🤷🏻♂️. I guess reading more of the Bible helps Eliminate any argument on the question of once saved always saved, because all those that are “vomited out of my mouth “ were saved as well as every once saved always saved . It’s a little more involved than just once saved always saved . I think the context should be once salvation is offered, It’s always offered it’s up to us to keep from being “Luke warm” 🙏🏻
Right! One does not earn a gift that was freely given because of God's love, but one has to treasure it and make an effort not to lose it. Just because it's a free gift doesn't mean you can't lose it or reject it.
I don't understand this guy's hangup with the Catholic Church. Just as with protestants, there are Catholics who have varying degrees of knowledge and understanding of their faith.
I can guarantee that he does not find well-versed Catholics who have studied their faith well, talk to them, and then post _those_ conversations in his videos.
The only people I know who ramble on and on about "faith vs works" are protestants. I have never heard this distinction made in a Catholic church. Rather, it is emerging that is it is a "strawman" version of Catholicism that protestants have invented. The unfortunate man in the video seems to have taken the bait.
Catholics believe that Jesus dies for our sins. Jesus paid the price so that we don't have to. If we accept Jesus, and his teachings, then we accept salvation. If we reject Jesus, we reject salvation.
We can do horrible things in this life, and still be saved. However, we need to repent of those actions. See Luke 19:9.
We also need to embrace Jesus as our savior to be saved. But this is more than just lip service. See Mt 25:40-45.
There are millions of people out there who do not believe in God at all. I would like to think they could get some attention. Yet this guy seems to focus on Catholics--and for mistaken reasons at that: e.g. 0:53 "we've got to work our way into heaven." This is _not_ Catholic teaching and never has been.
At 3:11 he commits the "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy by cleverly inserting the word "genuine" into the conversation. Rather than concede that he has lost the argument, Todd covers his tracks by claiming that we are saved by "genuine" faith, which (apparently) one can distinguish from the "non-genuine" variety by the presence of good works. This is a semantic game.
I'll pray for Todd.
James is saying if you do works with your faith then your faith is justified (saving faith). He is not saying 'If you have a saving faith then you will do works'. It is a subtle difference with consequences.
Fides Formata (formed faith that works through charity) yes that’s the understanding of the church on faith alone. And it is impossible when there’s absence of grace. That is why the church condemns the two types of understanding about sola fide which is “an intellectual assent only” (as condemned in James 2) and the “fiduciary type of faith” which is lacking of love (as explained in 1 Cor. 13). 😊
Bullseye: You do the things of GOD not to earn your salvation, "BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY SAVED!"
“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.”
I Corinthians 13:1-2 NKJV
Mr. Todd, Paul disagrees with you and your interpretation of faith alone. We are called to love each other, that is a work, that is not an outcome of being saved, because work IS faith.
Abraham was not only called righteous for faith: “And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.””
Romans 4:19-22 NKJV
Do not twist the epistle of James. Do not twist Paul’s epistles. James’ epistle, in my opinion, is the most straightforward. James 2:24 you must read exegetically. What makes one justified, Mr. Todd?
Hebrews 11 says Abraham was justified by faith by carrying Isaac to the altar, but James called it a work. Therefore, a work is faith. Just like what Paul said, if he does not speak in love, his voice is only clashing of cymbals.
Have a blessed day sir ❤️
Doesn't this just confirm Catholic point of view? That works is what gets you closer to God and completes your faith. So, you are saved by works lol? Nobody in the catholic perspective says faith in God isn't important it's the foundation of Christianity. All this video does for me is affirm the Catholic position that you have to work to affirm your faith and not just believe. You can't just say you're a Christian and go out every night and get drunk and have pre marital sex, you have to practice what you preach.
Todd, Calvinism's definition of sovereign and their doctrine of determination (Meticulous determineism), Calvinism's 2 foundational doctrines, are utterly false, unbiblical from Genesis to Revelation. Calvinism's 2 foundational doctrines are necessary for Tulip to even be considered, but Tulip is false as well as it's foundation.
Also, I am not an Arminian or Catholic, just believe Scripture, being in Christ.
So, is faith without works dead or not? You will know them by their fruits. What are their fruits? Answer: their actions, their works. You can’t sit there and say God doesn’t expect me to act if I have faith. How about you try a debate with someone from Catholic Answers.
Right, you can’t believe God and be Gods friend unless you have the ability by Gods faith to have faith. This however does not lead to Calvinism. There are many spins to get to the no spin.
I think Ephesians 2:10 needs to be emphasized a lot with James 2 because Ephesians 2 verse 10 shows where the work is coming from.
Right on Todd.
Mostly from your "infallable" papal bulls. Have you read them?
Romans 3v23-26
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Many if not all in the catholic church claim that salvation comes through the catholic church: since the catholic church is the only way to salvation: so, then, what happened to John 3:16 or. John 14:6 or Acts 4:12, or all the rest of the bible? Perhaps, we should throw away our bibles, and join the catholic church, and get on the catholic church bandwagon?..
Yes, you should.
_If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector._
Matthew 18:17 ESV
If we could be saved by works alone, even atheists could get to heaven.
Without faith, there are no works.
It's faith plus works
Actually there are works without faith. It is faith working through love that saves.
@@timiscorner4601 and what is love?
"Saved by works alone" is Pelagianism and was condemned by the Catholic Church at the Council of Ephesus in 431.
@@darrellperez1029Love is charity. Loving your neighbor as yourself. feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, burying the dead, sheltering the stranger, comforting the sick, and clothing the naked.
Clarence did not lift the verse out of context. You were trying to play ‘gotcha!’ He gently tried to correct something you said. Works are essential for salvation, as they are the evidence of our faith and if you allowed Clarence to talk or played the entire interaction we would have heard that. As a Protestant I don’t like these kind of games. They prove nothing about Catholicism.
Ps-my apologies to all the Catholics on here, not all Protestants believe in ‘sola fide.’ Todd likes to talk about context, but then ignores it, talking louder and shouting.
If you have faith, your faith bares fruit. It demonstrates you actually have faith. But faith alone can save. Just look at the thief on the cross.
THIS, is why I've been taking my Bible to church services, ever since I was saved at 14.
It's also, why I consider myself a Christian, who happens to be going to church.
While I appreciate church services, and the work that goes into them, I'm also aware that any sermon needs to be fact checked.
If the pastor is taking too many scriptures out of the context of the Bible, for their own narrative, I move on to another church.
I would be careful with what you are doing brother. I used to do the same and it led me into heresy. What you are doing is not right. You are judging a church based on your own opinions and interpretation of the Bible. What if your interpretation is wrong? Many scholars have dedicated their entire lives to the Bible, but you are able to understand so easily? Not likely. My opinion would be to look at every Christian denomination and compare. One has to be the one holy and apostolic church which Jesus promised would survive in Matt 16:18. “You are Peter and on this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it” I believe that this is the Catholic Chruch. After comparing many of the denomination, I have come to believe that the Catholic Church is the one Holy and Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ. You should try to do this so thy u may not be led astray
@@DavidValle-ej8es Well, as far as interpreting the bible is concerned, the RCC doesn't have room to talk about heresy. Mariology and the veneration of saints is the best and easiest reason to not convert to Catholicism. You may be sincere in what you believe, but you can be sincere and sincerely wrong at the same time. BTW, that Matthew 16:18 stuff has been refuted over and over by top koine Greek linguists of the world; even those antagonistic to Christianity.
@@DavidValle-ej8esI believe he is doing right & we should not judge that. If the Spirit leads then follow but ensure it is the right Spirit. All too many scholars & theologians that are not, this is why we have the Spirit. Just as your interpretation of Matthew 16 and Peter the Rock or stone upon which Christ will build his church. We know there are other stones in the foundation, we know Christ is the chief cornerstone. It is is Peter's confession there that the church is built on. One would have to go way way out to force themselves to accept that he was referring to the catholic church. After Christ rose into heaven, sat down at the right hand of our Father the disciples went out into all the world. Many churches began way before the RCC. The true church is the body of Christ that hold to the Apostolic teachings & the Word of God. The catholic church took a left turn. It's traditions, sacraments, idols, strange doctrines, murders, persecutions, sexual immoralties & deciet is by far God's one Holy & apostolic church of Christ, that is down right blasphemous. There is a great dirty evil history that keeps getting purposely ignored & covered up. Debates can go on & on but truth is truth. The body of true believers is the bride of Christ the church and I don't care if it's a baptist congregation or a methodist as long as they are 100% bible believers. I know y'all hate bible believers because what God gave us does not fit into your traditions & rituals but it is what we have from HIM and we trust in that alone. We know that if it were not true He would have made that known.
If you're in church and things are said that are contrary to the gospel then obey the Spirit. Just because a preachers stands up & quotes 15 single various bible verses and ends with "that is how & why the pyramids were made" then run! The things the catholics have as doctrines & rituals are alarming!
You’ll be moving forever
@@ChristopherChavez Nope!
Been at my present church for 4 years.
Question pls, what specifically would be considered a work? I am a believer trying to grow and be sanctified, but am concerned my faith is not demonstrated by any works. Thanks.
Works can be see as witnessing, volunteering at your church for physical labor, giving money, etc.
The fruits of the Holy Spirit in your life are a good starting point
You have to have it in you to do the work out of love for you neighbor out of love for God whether the opportunity to do the charitable work presents itself or not. You have to have it in you to do the work out of love especially when the opportunity arises.
In the discourse on Christian salvation, a pivotal assertion rests on the teachings of the early Church Fathers, particularly those of the 1st century who were in closer proximity to the Apostles than any subsequent generations. Their teachings and writings, therefore, hold a profound significance, reflecting a more immediate transmission of the Apostles' doctrine and practices.
Clement of Rome, a disciple of the Apostles, made it clear in his "Epistle to the Corinthians" that a genuine faith must be manifest through righteous actions. He wrote, "Let us cleave, therefore, to those who cultivate peace with godliness, and not to those who hypocritically profess to desire it." Here, Clement underscores the necessity of godly living as an expression of one’s faith.
Moving to Ignatius of Antioch, another Apostolic Father, his epistles emphasize obedience and unity as manifestations of faith. He advocated for living in accordance with the faith professed, linking salvation with the Church's structure and sacramental life: "Let no man deceive himself: if any one be not within the altar, he is deprived of the bread of God."
Polycarp of Smyrna, also a direct disciple of an Apostle, John, echoes these sentiments in his pastoral letters. He urged the early Christians to be "zealous of good works," reaffirming that living out one's faith through action is not optional but essential to the Christian calling.
These Fathers, having been closer to the original teachings of Christ as relayed by the Apostles, present a compelling case for the interdependence of faith and works in the pursuit of salvation. They preached not only faith as the acceptance of Christ's lordship but also insisted on the transformation it must produce in the believer’s life.
Thus, when one considers the doctrinal foundations laid down by these early church leaders, it becomes evident that the path to salvation they advocated was one where faith and works are inseparably linked. Their proximity to the Apostles provided them access to apostolic wisdom and insight that far surpasses what is available today through textual studies alone. They did not merely inherit doctrines; they lived within the living tradition of the Apostles.
Given this rich patrimony of faith and praxis from the early Church Fathers, particularly those from the 1st century, one must pose the question: Are we truly prepared to claim that our contemporary understanding of salvation, potentially devoid of the integral role of works, surpasses the wisdom of those who were directly instructed by the Apostles themselves? Are you actually telling me you’re smarter than the early Church Fathers?
I agree with all of those statements of the early church fathers, but we'd both vehemently disagree with many of their other statements. Their writings aren't infallible like the Scriptures.
It's a red herring to say that to disagree with them is to pretend to be smarter... many a genius will be found in hell. It is each man's responsibility to know the command of God from His Word.
We both agree that saving faith is always accompanied by works - there is an inseparable link. That was most certainly James' point.
Where you, as a Roman Catholic, disagree with the Lord, His Word and Protestants is on the question of whether or not those works contribute to salvation. They most certainly do not and to say otherwise is to deny the sufficiency of Christ. It makes those works a self-serving effort to save yourself rather than a selfless act of love for your savior. He deserves complete credit for salvation.
Repent and rest in Christ for your salvation. Then display your affections for Him by acts of worship in a spirit of gratitude.
@@captainobvious8665 Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate your agreement on the significance of the early Church Fathers' statements about the relationship between faith and works.
You correctly note that their writings are not infallible like Scripture. However, the early Church Fathers provide valuable insights into the interpretation and application of Scriptural teachings, reflecting the understanding of those who were closest to the Apostolic tradition.
I agree that saving faith is always accompanied by works, and I also recognize that we both see James’ epistle as emphasizing this inseparable link. However, I would like to clarify the Catholic perspective regarding the role of works in salvation.
Catholic teaching holds that we are not saved by faith alone (sola fide). The Epistle of James explicitly states in James 2:24, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” This underscores that while faith is essential, it must be a living faith, evidenced by works. These works are not seen as meritorious on their own but are the fruit of God’s grace working in us.
The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by grace through faith, but this faith must be active and alive, manifesting in works of love. These works are a response to God’s grace, not an attempt to earn salvation independently. They are part of the process of sanctification and cooperation with God’s grace.
Regarding the sufficiency of Christ, the Catholic Church upholds that Christ’s sacrifice is entirely sufficient for our salvation. Our works are not seen as adding to His sacrifice but as our participation in the grace He has given us. This participation is a response to His love and a way of living out our faith.
I understand that we might still have differences in our theological perspectives, but I hope this explanation provides some clarity on the Catholic understanding.
Thank you again for this dialogue. It’s through such respectful exchanges that we can grow in understanding and faith.
Most prots don't know what the church really teaches and just attack straw man.
I don't want to sound contentious, but in the parable of Jesus judging between the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25), why are the goats being sent to Hell? Also, what did Jesus mean by "Strive to enter through the narrow gate"(Luke 13:24)?
You need to be born again to be a sheep and not a goat. God must fully save you and transform you which happens upon faith in what Christ does for you on that cross. Romans 7:17
17So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
The old tree has to die and a new tree must grow. We are egoistic by nature and if we ignore the needs of even one brother or sister, we will be on Jesus' left side as goats.
Therefore, it is not enough to do good works. We have to be changed, so that the law becomes part of us, like God promised in Jeremiah 31:33, that he would put his law in our hearts. If we try to do good works without giving our whole life to Jesus (I mean it just as I say it, and that's why faith is so important), - If we try to do good works without giving our whole life to Christ, then instead of planting an apple tree, we try to put apples on a cactus.
It is interesting that this topic is cause for so much consternation. Faith saves. Works are evidence of real faith. Context as Todd explains is key.
Then answer this: how much works is enough evidence?
@@axxel9626 Seems like the wrong question.
"Works are evidence of real faith." This is the "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy. Inserting the modifier "real" changes the conversation from "faith vs works" to "real faith vs works." What is the definition of "real faith," and how is it distinguished from the "non-real" variety? By the presence of good works. So apparently we are saved by "real faith," which is now defined as "faith + good works." This is not helpful.
@@david7542 the Bible itself defines what real faith is simple belief like the demons do is not real faith real faith is perfected in works. Read scripture in context. It’s not a logical fallacy if you disagree that is fine.
@@noneyabiznas3590 OK. I am trying to understand you. The Bible defines "real faith," (verse?) but even this real faith is still "imperfect," and must be "perfected" in works? Or does "faith" become "real faith" when it is accompanied by or perfected by works?
"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit." Matthew 12:33
Profess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord (work), believe that God raised him from the dead (faith), and you will be saved
Amen ❤ God bless you brother 🙏
In Jesus Name I Love your Ministry All Glory to GOD
So why didn’t you call Clarence on his error with the verses clarifying this.
Is like one of the malefactors that were also crucified next to Jesus, did he have time to do works? definitely not in the material sense he was there unable to move or do anything about it, however he show that he believed in Jesus , That's the key believing ,he rebuke the other malefactor , he could just end it there but he said something extraordinary to Jesus , not only that he believe in Him , but that he had faith that Jesus will come in thy kingdom , he ask Jesus to remember him, amazing because even the disciples were expecting that Jesus will establish the kingdom, even John the baptist ask if He was or they have to wait for another one, but that malefactors faith was greater that not only believe in Jesus but have faith that He will return , he was certain of it will even do he could not see it with his own eyes , he understood that event to be at a later time , that will be a gap , well sor far is been about 2,000 years , he didn't do any physical works as we commonly see it , but he expressed his faith and I'll be paraphrasing here , not only Jesus let him know that he is save because he believe in Him but by expressing his faith, that he will not have to wait until He returns , he will be the very same day with Him in paradise. I call that active faith , he didn't stood idle after he rebuke the other malefactor, he expressed his faith and it was accounted , he is save.
“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.”
Romans 4:3-8 KJV
Context, Context, Context! It's about the mosaic works of the law, not about good works. Faith means obedience.
_13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression._
✝️👑
Paul was talking to a Jewish audience, who 'earned salvation' via only obedience to the law.
Many verses out there that say your judged according to deeds.
Protestants take it as an excuse to be idol.
No catholic believes is 'via works' your saved.
Every protestant thinks his works means nothing. Especially the Calvin's.
The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is a gift from God, given by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This aligns with what is stated in Ephesians 2:8-9, 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God-not the result of works, so that no one may boast.'
However, Catholics also believe that genuine faith naturally produces good works. As it says in James 2:17, 'So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.' Good works are seen as the fruit of faith, not a means to earn salvation, but a response to God’s love and grace. They are a way to live out our faith in practical ways, serving others and following Jesus’ teachings.
Catholics believe that, through grace, we are empowered to perform these good works. In this way, our faith and works are intertwined: true faith leads to a transformed life, evidenced by acts of charity, love, and obedience to God’s commandments. The process of sanctification, or becoming holy, involves cooperation with God's grace and living according to His will.
Therefore, entering the kingdom of heaven is not about achieving a specific amount of work, but about living a life of faith that bears fruit in good works, rooted in God’s grace and love."
The Catholic Church does not believe Ephesians 2:8-9.
The saved by grace through faith is a completed action according to the Greek.
The Catholic Church teaches that one is accursed who believes one is saved by grace through faith as a finished work of God. They do not teach salvation is by faith alone.
@@Rightlydividing-wx1xb Of course the Catholic believes everything in the bible. They are the one who compiled and canonized it in the 4th century. Maybe you should research what the early Christans believe. Also, the bible does not teach faith alone. The only time you'll find those 2 words together in the bible is in James 2:24 which says a person is justified by works, not by faith alone. How can it be any clearer?
The Catholic Church teaches salvation by grace alone.
Stop lying.
You proved that faith and works are both part of salvation. Faith alone is hooey.
If not by faith alone, then Christ died for nothing.
Not really. He died for forgiveness of sin. He also said to be like Him.
Faith means obedience. If you refuse to do good works, Heaven is not waiting for you.
@@petros-petra Faith does not mean obedience.
@@darrellperez1029 It does
_Whoever _*_believes_*_ in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not _*_obey_*_ the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him._
John 3:36 ESV
@@petros-petra brother I stand corrected.
Proud Catholic here. Even The Devil has his Faith in God but doesn't want to obey and do works.
The devil doesn't have faith in God. He was there in heaven. He knows God exists and rejected Him anyway. Being in heaven has nothing to do with good works.
@@ContendingEarnestly you haven't read James 2 that even the devil believed but shudders. the devil has faith in God. that's what Protestants position.
@@philipmarchalquizar7741 *the devil has faith in God.*
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder!
Where does it say the devil has faith in God? The demons believe God is one! This isn't faith for them, its fact. Thats why they shudder. We believe in, trust in and place our faith in Jesus. Where is yours? Your church, the pope, mary? All of the above?
@@ContendingEarnestly why so much hate about Mary then and the pope as well? you think we worship Mary? what is your churches authority coming from? do you think holding, interpreting the bible on your own has the greater sense compared to the early Church fathers? Why so much hate about the only Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ?
@@ContendingEarnestly the last time I check the devil always hate Mary.. Why is that so? Then I read Genesis 3-15 (WOMAN OFFSPRING and the devils offspring) and Revelation 12 (the WOMAN, the Dragon (devil), and Jesus).
Why so much hate about Mary? most probably your on the Serpent side and one of the offsprings.
I can't believe I once trusted you. Repeatedly saying "Context, Contex, Context", and yet you totally ignore and twist the Context yourself.
Even the devil has Faith in God but doesn't want to obey and do works. That's Protestants line of thinking.
The context is presented thoroughly here. Either James and Paul are defining a different type of justification or there is an inconsistency in the bible.
It seems to me, you think they disagree.
@@captainobvious8665 What's the context of Ephesians 2?
@petros-estin-petra- can you be more specific? What is your position?
@@captainobvious8665 In the context of Ephesians 2:9, what kind of works was Paul referring to?
Kind older Roman Catholic man is sweet that he’s willing to correct the Protestant man.
purgatory is not real
you either go hell and god has his wrath on you or he doesnt and you go to heaven there is no in between
@@havefaith4382 Great. I don’t believe in purgatory.
@@havefaith4382 Dont be silly now purgatory is clearly biblical you prot
@@tranquilodaniLol, it isn't obviously or every Christ follower would believe it. And they don't. Purgatory was created buy Catholics to make money or get free labor...
@@jcsmith3806 Paul taught purgatory in 1 Corinthians 3
You are wrong about this subject
Is Romans Chapter 4 wrong?
@@Ben-pk4cv ur interpretation of it is.
@DavidValle-ej8es 100s of Millions of Christians believe similarly to me. I wouldn't call it my interpretation. This isn't a belief I came to by myself. This isn't a private interpretation of Scripture.
Acts 16v30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, *Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,* and thy house.
Paul and Silas were asked a direct question and they said believe only.
We may disagree on how a person can enter heaven but there are plenty of scriptures in support of by grace alone through faith alone (no works). And that good works come after Salvation.
There isn't an issue with God giving his grace freely as Paul explains to us in Romans. Do we sin more so that grace shall increase? No.
Once I learned of God's Amazing grace, I put my trust in Jesus Christ alone for my Salvation.
@@DavidValle-ej8esGrace is unmerited. If any works were required it would not be grace.
A gift is not something we do any deed or work for or it wouldn't be a gift.
Romans 6v23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Maybe you've heard these points before. Anyway, I wish you well.
You're entire argument is based off a fallacy. As if I don't know what grace means and that Ive never read or understood the verses you just gave me. In fact I knew what your argument was going to be before I even opened your message. I have heard these points before as I used to be a protestant. At least I would all myself "a Bible believing Christian." The argument that we are justified by faith alone was never an argument until the 1500s. While many christians today are deceived, I believe, by the heretical teachings of Martin Luther and those who adhered to him after him, I much more subscribe to the interpretation of the Christians who came right after Jesus. The apostles and the students of the apostles, called the early Church Fathers. This interpretation has been held for 2000 years and did not just appear in the 1500s which is you're faith alone interpretation. I only say this as I found Protestantism to be, and I say this with much sorrow, as I wish it were not the case, a watered down version of the true Christianity, which I came to believe is Catholicism. I would have never thought this as I despised the catholic church for what I incorrectly assumed them to be. I was wrong. Besides james 2:24 there are many Bible verses where we can know that Jesus and his apostles did not believe in faith alone. That is, making the choice to believe in Jesus. It is not to just believe in Jesus but to believe in him while working out your faith in love as without love faith is nothing - 1 Cor 13:2. Another verse would be in the separation of the sheep and the goats in Matt 25:31-46. From this scripture we see that both sheep and goats believe in Jesus because both say "when did we see you sick or in prison?" But the difference between them is that the goats did not clothe Jesus, did not feed him when he was hungry, visited him while he was sick, etc. Because whatever we do to other people we have done it to him also. Then this is where Jesus put the sheep and goats " Then they will go away to eternal punishment[goats], but the righteous to eternal life[sheep]. So Jesus called the Christians who did good deeds with faith in Jesus Christ, he called them righteous. I thought protestants said that faith alone makes you righteous? no works required! That is not what Jesus taught. That is not what the Apostles taught. Sorry for the long paragraph but it needed to be done. I'm displeased with protestants thinking that Catholics don't know their faith or their Bible. Please do better, that goes for the youtube channel owner as well. @@Ben-pk4cv