Chimps found to undergo Menopause
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2023
- Turns out they weren't looking hard enough.
Sources:
New chimp paper
www.science.org/doi/10.1126/s....
Killer Whale Menopause
www.science.org/doi/full/10.1...
www.cell.com/current-biology/...
Outro: Point Pleasant by Brock Berrigan
www.brockberrigan.com/
open.spotify.com/artist/39sPW...
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I love how everything 'unique' about humans isn't in reality. We are just like other animals.
On their own as traits sure, but the combination is pretty unique.
Given evolution, it makes sense that most human traits would appear in some form earlier in our history and our primary difference being scale.
But, but...
Humans aren't animals! We are a specially created being in the image of gawd! /sarcasm
Sorry, I couldn't resist. They make it SOOO easy to poke fun at.
@@Mark_Agamotto1313_SmithGod explains every time our perception is fooled by nature. It's all caused by the big itch in the sky.
I mean.... we're literally just evolved apes.
My wife depended heavily on her mother while raising her children and now passes the favor on to the grandkids. There can be no doubt the the children of both generations were strongly favored by the presence of Grandma. If she or her mother went on having babies into their 60’s, the benefits to the family genes would very liked have been less.
I work with kids and families and I see it all the time. Kids with involved, loving grandparents are generally more able to withstand issues in their nuclear family because the grandparents are there for them. Their lives turn out better.
Like my mom i assume id be real happy not to deal with periods every month anymore. Also that grandparent child help you did is much much better than the 2 working parents only thing we are pushed towards.
Sounds like your wife needed some of the husband’s help.
I would be embarrassed if my wife needed my mother in law help to any extent out of the norm.
@skaterboy708
In addressing the author of the first comment on this thread, it's apparent that:
You're assuming that person was married at the time the children were at an age where the help was relied upon.
You're assuming a number of things regarding physical, and mental wellbeing being; not considering that they might be relevant to any child care options.
You're assuming there is nothing career wise that might preclude the husband being the optimal choice; a career in the military, a job that might see him go at odd hours if he's on- call, a job that requires substantial travel away throughout the week, a late, or overnight work schedule, are four pretty conventional options that immediately spring to mind. There are obviously more.
You're assuming that there isn't an underlying reason regarding the childrens' well- being, or possible medical needs, that would make the grandmother's experience, or knowledge invaluable.
You're assuming you sound like a super-swell guy who understands how to step up to take some responsibility... Instead of coming across as a fetid dikhole.
You very much seem oddly pleased with your ability to sound smug while offering a snarky jab, from a place of utter ignorance.
You are teh awesome guy.
When I'm awake at 3am with insomnia due to perimenopause, I will take a moment to think of our ancestors and how they had to suffer with it too.
I was referring to the implication made at the end of the video, that hominins in our ancestry may have also experienced menopause.@@keepingup2952
@@keepingup2952i think the point would be that chimpanzees and homo sapiens last common ancestor passed down the trait of menopause. not that we descend from chimpanzees. not one person who studies evolution thinks chimps r our ancestors lol.
@keepingup2952 it literally means ancestor shared between.
So if our last common ancestor with chimpanzees were 7 million years ago, we did not descend from chimps.
Your cousin is not your grandfather.
@@keepingup2952 some ape 7 million years ago was our last common ancestor. it's an undeniable fact that chimps are our evolutionary cousins.
As a newly minted grandmother I have been helping with my grand offspring though he lives a long way away. My daughter often messages or phones for advice. It’s fun to think this might go back to the early days of human evolution
Congratulations! So happy for you that you have a close relationship with your daughter and can offer her/her husband support and advice.
As a modern ape going through peri-menopause , I really appreciate this video
Ditto.
✌️
Me, who learnt about genetic drift no more than one month ago: "Ah yes she is speaking to me, I am the genetic drift people, undeniably I am the genetic drift people"
The way I laughed when she called Genetic Drift people out
Still not sure if I am one, but the sauciness was funny
As a postmenopausal female I actually feel built up by these notions. Even though my children are adults, they still depend on me for quite a bit. I didn't have that with my own mother. She worked until the age of 65 and even after that she made it known she wasn't going to assist me. I'm the opposite with my own children and grandchildren.
Thank you Erica. You are a voice of reason in a vast ocean of misinformation. Your witty rejoinder and deliveries are a thing of beauty. Congratulations on surviving and thriving through your PHD.❤
Something I couldn't stop thinking about throughout this video was the relationship between eusocial insects and menopausal mammals. In eusocial insects, basically all the hive is sterile, but also siblings. They help the hive in hopes of the queen spreading their own genes, which otherwise wouldn't spread.
I read an interesting paper about menopause being evidence of eusocial adaptations in humans. They discussed other traits as well -- could be worth looking up again!
You triggered a memory here! There is actually a SciFi-Novel by Stephen Baxter, "Coalescent", that explores a human hive. One dominant "mother", and all the female offspring learn the mantra "sisters matter more than daughters".
In addition to eusocial insects being siblings, or half siblings, (as the queen mates repeatedly with as many males as possible, in honey bees), there is a decided preference for the "sisters" to show favoritism to those most closely related. ie full sisters help each other more than half-sisters in the hive!
Don't forget the naked and Damaraland mole-rats, who are eusocial mammals.
@@obsidianagent THAT is exactly the wrong way around. For the HIVE the children matter EVERYTHING. Siblings are expendable, but the NEXT generation has to be protected.
Fantastic video, thank you! I’ve been dealing with perimenopause for a couple of years and I’m finally embracing my imminent cronedom - I’ve been saving for a year-long meno-moon (basically you devote a year to focus on your body’s transition from “mother” to “crone”- a scheduled midlife crisis, haha).
I love this and stealing your idea. I'm not quite there yet, but I know my body has changed dramatically over the past 2 years and feel like cronedome is slowly approaching. A meno-moon sounds much more pleasant and I think embracing a positive attitude about it will make the transition easier mentally. Good for you, darlin! 🩷♀️🥳
The only grandmother I knew was taken by alzheimers. Almost all the memories I have of her is after the diagnostic. Is been a long time ago, but somehow, someway, this video make me smile remembering the bery few memories of my grandma baking for all her granchildren, reproaching me when I cussed, and other times. It wasn't the main objective of this video, but thank you for making me remember my grandma as a person rather than a sickness.. Love all your vids, a big hello from south america.
How sweet, but poignant, for you. I lost mine very young as well. I can see that they'd have helped me/us if they'd been in our lives longer.
Living decay? I heard a different phrase for menopause, second spring, which may be Chinese. I prefer the latter.
Its cool to see how much we share with other species :)
Very informative. It will be interesting to find out what the Bonobos are like. My wife and I are spending our retirement photographing animals in various zoos. In very unscientific observations, the behavior of Bonobos remind me more of human behavior than that of Chimps. What struck was the calmness of the group. There seems to be fewer "fights" among the Bonobos. Discussing it with the keepers it sounded that it was because of the central role of the female, It will be interesting to see if the "grandmother" effect has any influence.
"There seems to be fewer "fights" among the Bonobos."
bonobos are sex crazed.
they will have sex with anyone in their group.
mutual masturbation, i think oral, not sure, plus traditional sex.
they resolve conflicts through sex instead of aggression.
and they are matriarchal, they two could be related, but generally speaking, afaik, consensus is conflict resolution through sex is why they are not as aggressive as chimps.
relating humans to great apes is problematic.
orangutans, iirc, form single pair mate bonds, gorillas form harems, chimps i think follow the gorilla model, and bonobos are everything goes.
humans do all these things.
Lots of recreational sex between everybody among the bonobos. It appears to help social cohesion.
You are not the first to note this. Bonobos are anatomically much more similar to Ardipithecus than either common chimpanzees or humans, indicating that modern chimpanzees have evolved _away_ from the original state in many aspects.
You should spend your retirement taking care of grandchildren. Have you learned nothing?
you are right, except the grandkids are Married and I have 2 greatgrandkids. So it is the next generation's turn to do the Gandparent thing @@all_avation
My uterus has caused a lot of stress in my life. I’m very happy it is shutting down.
Hey Erica! I just wanted to thank you for being sort of a teacher for the internet! I have started learning about anthropology through your videos, and they bring me so much joy! ❤❤❤
I absolutely love your channel, Erica (now Ms Erica, PhD :). Listening to you is both enlightening and entertaining. As an old person who has recently developed interests in anthropology, especially via a vis social lines you are my sweet spot on UA-cam. Thank you so much for all the great pathways you spark in me :)
As an older person who finished school not that long ago (w/minor in Anthro), I second your declaration inre Big Dr E😃
Pretty cool stuff, didn't hear about this study! One group of mammals that I don't hear about much wrt menopause is lions. Lions go through a kind of menopause where they stop reproducing and experience a drop in their estrogen levels. There are even cases of hirusitism in old female lions where they grow scruffy manes. The grandmother effect is likely at play with them too.
See the summary in the 26th of October 2023 New Scientist article "Most mammals go through the menopause - if they live long enough".
I find this so fascinating (especially since my wife may be undergoing the change) but also because you deliver the information so clearly. I love your videos.
I loved that 80s TV show "The Living Decay Girls"
I think that menopause makes sense to a degree, since pregnancy is already somewhat dangerous by default and just gets more dangerous to both mother and child the older you get. If an otherwise menopause-aged pre-human primate mother dies in pregnancy or childbirth then any young children they had recently would be significantly less likely to survive to have children of their own, making having a cutoff point for pregnancies be selected for. And, of course, this will free then up for the Grandmother Hypothesis roles as well.
Also the chance of having a Downs baby increases with the age of the mother as do all sorts of other risks to normal pregnancies. It makes more sense for human females to switch their energy to helping to raise their grandkids
The prolonged childhood of humans certainly lines up here (not just pre-adulthood but actual won't survive on their own)... If everyone died of old age at exactly 60 and children under age 10 couldn't survive without a parent, then clearly any children after age 50 can't help you from an evolutionary standpoint, and they certainly could hurt you. If you have four other kids under age 10 and you die having a fifth, that was a really bad move.
As for why not men, having children is certainly much less likely to kill them so a chance, even a small one, seems a lot more worth it.
That would have been my assumption, but it doesn't seem to fit with either chimps or cetaceans. They have relatively long childhoods I believe, but nothing like the extended childhood adolescence of humans. They're not likely to have multiple sets of kids unable to support themselves if they die in pregnancy.
What a time to be living. We get to hear someone who's incredibly well informed and charismatic talk about a fascinating subject. Thank god we don't live in a time where we judge our fellow humans simply because they're women and blame it on original sin. Another brilliant video mate!
I was just Googling elephants and menopause when you addressed it (I wait until towards the end of a video to search issues that come up as I watch them).
I’m convinced chimpanzees can also have neurodivergent as well, certainly one of the chimpanzees at Edinburgh Zoo appears to display traits similar to OCD and autism. We still have so much to learn, not just our closest relatives, but every other species we share this planet with.
Interesting, although it can be difficult to separate autistic traits from CPTSD trauma symptoms because so many autistic/ADHD people (I link them because it's common for them to overlap - both in terms of many people with one being likely to have the other as well as the symptoms often being similar or looking at least on some level similar though not identical or necessarily serving the same function) suffer from trauma due to the way they're raised as well as having a high prevalence of being trans and therefore being likely to suffer trauma from their upbringing there too.
So often we find it's hard to know which elements are trauma symptoms and one would have to separate out the trauma symptoms of chimps in captivity.
To further complicate it there may be a genetic element to who is susceptible to cptsd so that would also have to be separated out.
Basically, ASD, ADHD and CPTSD are not well enough understood and the former two have sadly been primarily studied by neurotypicals attempting to "cure" the ADHD/Autistic people of being themselves and CPTSD has often been disregarded or conflated with PTSD and is not something psychologists tend to study unless they are trauma-specialised.
So we'd have to understand what we're actually looking for and understand where the boundaries between these things lie in humans before we try to apply them to chimps and potentially add other variables.
@@curiousnerdkitteh that is really interesting, especially when you add in that the chimp in question is a former lab chimp with no history of what happened in the lab. He has an obsession about having clean feet and goes out of his way to avoid getting dirt on them, often using cardboard box enrichment as mats! He also has a tendency of sitting separate to the group either people watching or focusing at the sky, he doesn’t look at you, he looks through you. When the first baby was born there was much interest in who the father was, Frek wasn’t even in the running with all of these quirks of his, although as a pure Western, very much intact for the programme. When the results came through, everyone was shocked to find spaced out Frek, as I call him, was dad! He’s quiet, he sits on the edge and watches intently so knows exactly what’s going on. The amount of similarities we find between ourselves and chimpanzees suggests we are really only beginning to find how many crossovers there are cognitively as well! Underestimate at our own risk, we need to step down from our pedestal and accept we are just another species like the rest of them!
It’s impossible for us to point at an animal in a zoo setting and say they display any behavior, especially ‘neurodivergent’
Stereotypic behavior is common in zoo animals. It’s unlikely that the behavior observed in neurodivergent humans is the result of similar circumstance.
@@curiousnerdkittehI was thinking the exact same thing. I would love to see a study about neuro divergence in chimps in the wild. Not sure how that would even be done but being an autism father with severe ADHD myself it would be very cool to see that study done on our evolutionary cousins. I'm positive that they can have most of the same problems we do and maybe studying them can help us.
And you said "cure them of being themselves" like there isn't anything negative about ADHD/asd but let me tell you ADHD has negatively affected every single part of my life and I would give anything to be able to speak to my son and he understand me and talk back. I have cried way too many tears about not being able to speak to my son to have someone tell me that we shouldn't look for a way to prevent/cure asd and prevent other parents from going through the same heartache. Because believe me while I love my son to death I hate his autism and would cut off both my legs to have the ability to communicate with him.
Boys-only high school.
Phys ed class covered sex ed.
Did they discuss menopause?
Yes.
Bravo,vous êtes un phénomène d'excellence!!
Erica, you blow my mind every time I listen to you talk! Thanks for the education. ❤
Uhh my grandmother is a young earth creationist. I try not to speak to her for her other fundamentalist beliefs. Love your content!
Would be a pretty funny phone call that you were thinking about her due to the evolution of menopause. But probably best not to. 😅
I wonder if the grandmother hypothesis and the gay uncle hypothesis are related in terms of offspring survival and gene selection? Seems logical. Fascinating video. Thanks Erika!
I wonder if one of the things that selects for menopause is risky pregnancy?
Awesome, you answered the question about birth control. Well, I'm not on birth control. I'm XX chromosome and take testosterone but the dose was reduced recently, and I was surprised at how easily my body went back to making eggs. Almost immediately. I'm sure bigots would reel their minds realizing that HRT does not disable the body in the way they claim - in their assertions about "damage" to the body, they are rejecting a "body state" biological process model. Checks out, as it is rooted in misogyny and homophobia (which arguably is an extension of misogyny). Anyways, now I'm on track to research more about hominids and these states because this shit is really cool, especially the origins of hidden ovulation. this channel rocks. Thanks!!
Actually Erica, human males experience a drop in testosterone levels in their 40s, colloquially referred to as “manopause”. By then most have already lost their hair.
I always thought we went through menopause because having a baby becomes more dangerous after 40 - more risk of birth defects and greater risk to the mother’s health. If we can’t have babies when we get old, we’re less likely to die and leave a child (more likely to be a disabled one) without a mother, as well as leaving any other older children motherless.
Birth defects isn't a common result because of an older mother simply because females are born with all eggs and they don't change drastically, though it can be more dangerous based of the health of the mother. The womb is actually more likely to fertilise twins when the mother is over 35 so nature doesn't care about those risks. Males with older sperm is usually the result of birth defects because it's constantly changing and it will reflect the age, causing most studies to go eschew because of the paternal age factor.
It's true that menopause encourages devoting more time for caring for young over having more, especially considering once someone starts having children hormonally their body may be driven to have more and the menopause is the needed off switch but again this is more of a coincidence since there's animals that go through menopause without being actively involved in rearing future offspring.
A male would need to be reproductively able to have children for as long as possible because of that paternal uncertainty, a female however is the decider so can be guaranteed to have produce offspring once they reach sexual maturity. It functions like an extended time limit on a harder project to produce the same result. Nature tries to keep the population at a set amount for assured quality living of the group and it prevents incest and overpopulation. A series of studies on rodents known as the behavioural sink showed the inability to mate for mammals once they reach a certain number threshold.
This is so fascinating. I LOVE this channel.
Female asian elephants also appear to undergo menopause, at least they have extended post reproductive lifespans. I think we may find other longer lived, social mammal species could exhibit the same if they had sufficient resources
See the summary of a recent paywalled paper in the 26th of October 2023 New Scientist article "Most mammals go through the menopause - if they live long enough".
Subscribed semi recently. I'm super happy to catch another new video. Keep up the good work
Fascinating as always!
Your content brightens up my day 😊
The Mother-in-Law Hypothesis is clearly the stepping stone between inbreeding avoidance and the Grandmother Hypothesis.
You have a captivating tone!! Thank you for sharing your knowledge
This is super cool information. Thanks, Erica!
You are my new favorite human bean. I'm so happy I found your channel.
LOVED this video Erica, very well explained for us folk with less knowledge than yourself!!
Another great video, thank you 😊
I saw a great video on orca menopause a while back and they touched lightly on menopause in primates. Great video! I like the sub-30-minute format.
Possibly the best channel on UA-cam
Nice one, as always. A hypothetical alien researcher of milenia ago when homo sapiens emerged may well have been making the same observations about well provisioned homo sapiens going thru menopause.
This was such a cool video Ty
Orca, pleeeeze, Orca! Another great video, I enjoy each one. I'm impressed by how your Patreon list grows and grows (I'm in there).
What a fascinating topic, @Gutsick Gibbon! I really love how you are balancing creationism counter apologetics with interesting scientific content for our education!
This was a very cool video!
So fascinating!!
Very well explained! I loved how you showed the pros and cons of every hypothesis, to the point where I go: "Well duh!"
I re-posted this to my menopause facebook group. Thanks.
Please also link them to the 26th of October 2023 New Scientist article "Most mammals go through the menopause - if they live long enough". The title is wrong but they explain what they mean in the article. Most mammals go though oopause - stopping egg production - but most don't menstruate so don't technically have menopause. The paper they are summarising is not Open Access, unfortunately.
Very fascinating! We learned about the grandmother Hypothesis in 3rd-year university biology, but there were a lot of 'loose ends'. It's good to see that advancements are being made
Fascinating stuff
if we ever do our Pan (Chimps and Bonobo) episode this would be a good topic to go into more detail about
Great video! Your great content appeals to all sorts of people. Some of us that watch ARE grandmothers (RE: call your grandmother). I've got 3 generations of family watching, but I"m not the grandmother.
Reminds me of the idea of a Queen Mother, as royal humans in the west would send off princesses to other countries to marry but Queen Mothers were often in the ear of their King Sons
Yaay! I've heard of it about a month ago! It's so cool and also i didn't knew chimps were known to not have a menopause haha
Very interesting topic.
Fascinating!
Very interesting stuff. I had assumed that all mammal species have menopause. Thank you so much for this education 😃👍
You’re the best, Erika, and I hope the algorithm is fed by many comments that say the same
Very interesting!
Elephants also seem to have a "post reproduction life-span". There seems to be some doubt as to whether this is a menopause though. It will be interesting to see if more information comes out about menopause in longer-living mammals. Considering how little we know about menopause for humans and how much misinformation there is out there for women going through menopause, let alone different groups of mammals, I think we have a long way to go in this area to get a true idea of menopause and how it impacts different groups.
Im not any sort of biologist at all, but I also wonder if the inherent resource draining of Pregnancy and the risks of pregnancy, especially for humans with helpless babies, plays a factor in Menopause as well? Are we more susceptible because our pregnancies are so high risk that its Better for the Grandmother Role to happen than to continuously directly reproduce?
Gosh I love how interesting this stuff is and I would never have even heard of it it without Gutsick!
i'm really glad i subscribed to your channel after watching your long video on the pattern within mass extinction events, I really didn't think I'd be interested in monkey business but I subscribed because I really liked how you delivered that video and I found this one really interesting too. I really like how this topic overall explains the origins of some aspects of our very complex behaviour.
If you happen to see this, this video really got me thinking about the work done on extending life expectancy and trying to implement negligible sinescence in humans. If this manifests, what do you think are some psychological consequences of this? I'm especially interested in your perspective that you showed in this video. Thanks
Some notes (can't edit on mobile):
- The grandmother hypothesis and my own personal anecdotes suggests that the more individuals able to put their brains and bodies to work, the more successful a species will be
- the other one and most animal life suggests that an individual remaining youthful for much longer than a generation or 2 might be detrimental to the evolution of a species
You left out elephants.
Very interesting. Of course, it's what I've come to expect, but still!
I would really really like to see you do a video on group selection.
Awesome thumbnail btw ❤
"Grandpa" is a long time subsciber who, of course, just 'liked'
There is another very important factor that I believe you are missing: in human females, oocytes start their development during fetal stage, then get arrested and, after mernarche, sets of oocytes re-engage the development. Normally only one finishes an the rest of the set dies. This means two things: first that women have a limited amount of oocytes in their life which decreases on each cycle, and second that a 50 years old women have 50+years old oocytes, which are associated with more chromosomal anomalies.
Form the evolution perspective, having children at an old age is too risky and extending it may not be relevant if the woman already had descendants.
In contrast, sperms are cheaply and continually re-stocked so the risk is lower.
This could complement the other two theories you said.
As far as I remember, not many species ovulate every cycle (chimp do). A lot of other species have the ovulation linked to copulation, so the decrease in oocytes might not be relevant in a shorter life.
Sperm also decreases in quality with the age of its carrier
@brookehansen6973 yes, I agree, that's why I said "lower risk" and no "zero risk". Sorry if I wasn't clear.
What I specifically tried to say is that a couple with a 45 years old woman and a younger man, let's say 35 years old, has around 1/20 chances of a fetus with chromosomal anomalies, while a if instead the woman is 35 and the man 45, the chances are around 1/50.
Also, sperm cells quantity decreases with age which is associated with fertility issues too.
Oopause is common in mammals, menstruation is not. See the summary in the 26th of October 2023 New Scientist article "Most mammals go through the menopause - if they live long enough".
Cool vídeo!
Poor mayflies, they got the short end of the stick with lifespans.
this was very interesting. would love a longer, less simplified version someday
Really fun video to share to the mother in your life
I wish I had grandkids to help care for. 😢 My oldest son died unexpectedly at 39, leaving no family besides us involved. And his younger brother, though plenty young enough, hasn't found his match yet. 😢 Someday, maybe.
More Erika!🎉😊❤
I kept up with most of this simplified chimp info
You're so intelligent Erika! Please make more in depth tutorials for the indoctrinated. Also, can you please make a video about proper references and what databases/sources/apps or other channels the unknowing person should utilize to read credible scientific literature. Thank you!!
I can just imagine a primatologist walking up to some other primate and saying, "Excuse me, I need you to pee in the cup."
It's wild that we're primates studying other primates
Love the t-shirt also
I went through menopause (after producing two wonderful kids) while serving as navigator on a 48 foot sailboat crossing the North Atlantic. We had force 9 gales with waves washing right across the deck. Finding my life had been simplified by the start of menopause was absolutely wonderful!
I would be screwed without my parents to help with Tiny Human, especially my mom
I felt called out when you said "shut up genetic drift people i'm trying to oversimplify something" lmao
I was literally going to the comments to say something about it when I got called out 😂
I did type something about elefants but you added that addendum and so I had to delete it. 😄
At school I was taught that human females have around 400 eggs since development, and even before they are born they start to "go down in number" (altho I am a bit rusty and don't remember this part well).
In short I was taught that human females are already born with all the eggs they'll ever have in their life.
I was taught similar, that women had all their eggs from the first development. but the number of 400 seems low to me. aren't there many more? 400 seems like just about enough for 33 years of menstruation. so 400 is what actually goes to ripen and either be fertilized or be discarded unfertilized. the rest (thousands? millions?) dies off during early and fertile life. at least that's what i remember from high school biology class.
@@chilanya I just don't remember. See that most women go into menopause into their early 40's.
It's basically average 30 years of menstruation by 12 months that gives us 360 eggs.
I just don't remember enough to actually have a proper conversation about this, and I don't care enough to check either my books or websites.
Have a good one dude.
Makes me wonder about the pod structure, and presence or absence of grandmother or mother, of Orca that have recently been harassing and attacking boats...
It's because all evolution 'cares' about -- _at most_ -- is you helping your children's, children's, children have babies.
Grammas are awesome, therefore naturally selected.
PS. I guess I should have watched the vid first.. Though this stuff was well known long before Erica was born..
I love Erica, i never know what i am going to learn.
Surely the 'Grandmother effect' must also be evident within a herd of Elephants?
Oopause, when production of eggs stops, affects many more mammals than is generally considered. Menopause, of course, only affects those animals that menstruate. Most mammals don't. A recently-published paper found many examples of mammal oopause, though most mammals only survived long enough to have a long life after oopause when living in captivity. "Do mammals have menopause?" by I Winkler, A Goncalves in the journal Cell. Unfortunately pay-walled, though New Scientist did a summary.
So many interesting things!! How many mammals or other groups actually go through menopause or something comparable if given the opportunity!
Mayfly adults live about a day but the larval nymph stage (=adolescent?) lives about a year.
As you spoke I wondered about pre-modern lifespans of archaic humans. You got there and answered my thought. Also, they speak of the grandmother effect in elephants, but are they menopausal? I realize elephants are not your area. Hoped you would know. Wonderful talk.
I prefer "Aunty" to "Grandmother" (as I'm only grandmother to a pair of bunnies, and have never been asked to look after them). However, I'm Aunty to a bundle of kids to whom I'm not related, because community!
That’s cool!