Black Templars need not watch this video... stay strong brothers in the face of endless thirsting temptation. As always a ton of plans in the works, appreciate your viewership greatly - please do LIKE and tell me your thoughts about the representation of Slaanesh in 40K (praisethechangerofthewaysthecomingandgoingtheevershiftingtidesofthewarpandmaterialspace)
The moment GW moved its games from being 80s-edgy-niche and aiming for a wider appeal It had to refurbish and move with the times, like they did with the SoB. Slaanesh keeps an awkward spot. The 'martial perfection' bit is Khorne's. Intrigue and seductiveness, Tzeentch. Decadence feels Nurglish. Raving debauchery overlaps with the Drukhari (which makes sense). How do you go for the latter whilst keeping It PG? AoS kinda does It, but barely. Why portraying utter carnage or body horror is OK but the mere allusion to nudity is shut down is a whole topic on its own
If you're being tempted into torturing others or being horrifically tortured yourself... no screw it, I'm shaming the hell out of that kink. That's NOT healthy, like in the literal physical sense.
Simple. Have Rowboat be central to the plan to kill slaanesh. You get human character doing thing and it's grandpapa smurf so there is your ultra marines cannon sue boner groups satisfied.
The eldar seriously need more world building and involvement in the story especially when it involves slaanesh. Space knife ears needs love sometimes too.
Former heroin and meth addict here (6 years clean), those self-indulgent desires always start so small and so slow, until before you know it, you're doing things you NEVER thought you'd ever do. When people see people banging drugs on the street, they always imagine that they'd never ever do such a thing. But the real horror is that most of those same people saw and said the same thing. I know i did. But there comes a point where the satisfaction of the high is all you have left, you lose everything else.
@@Dr.Instabil And it really is a ritual. The sickness, the pickup, the anticipation, the preparation, the relief, and the counting down again until the pain comes back. 'Round and 'round and 'round we go. You do become a sort of fanatic or cultist. It changes your appearance and your personality. It leaks from your insides through pimples and sores. It warps your mind and wraps itself around your soul deep deep down with its hooks embedded in your very being... lol, very "grimdark." Even all these years later, that demon on my shoulder rears its ugly head and screams to be satisfied, and I fight every single day. Luckily, I've got new "rituals," and those seem to be working! 💪 Life is good. Stay strong, my friend.
Everyone has their weaknesses, but it's not always the same weaknesses. Some people will never do drugs, drink alcohol, or gamble no matter how bad things get. They'll seek some other escape that becomes a crippling vice.
@@techpriest6962 Honestly, throughout my time, I've come to realize that a lot of addictions really are the same. It's an addiction to the endorphins and the dopamine release. There's lot of different ways to get there, but when someone has a serious problem, the outcome can end the same way. For example, one drug can be just as devastating as another even if they're socially thought of on different levels. For example, back in the day, if I have a beer, it's whatever. I don't need more, I can have 1 and walk away, and it's no biggie to me. If my brother has one, it's over he'll drink everything he can get his hands on. Spiral out of control and end up arrested for driving or threatening someone. That's why he's also sober. I'm the same way with meth. One hit or shot, and I'm GONE for a week I'll spend my money, I'll do super dumb stuff, I'll end up in the woods running from stuf that's not there. Some people can be like that with sex or gambling. It's all just different ways of hitting that dopamine button, and for some reason, we can deal with *some* vices just fine with no effect, and others absolutely take over. Now that I'm so familiar with addiction, I can see it in so many things sometimes. It's all just different paths to the same end. It's just a matter of how far one travels down that road.
"We train young men to drop fire on people but their commanders won't allow them to write Fuck you on their airplanes because it's obscene" A level of ironic madness a dark eldar could appreciate.
Have you actually thought this out from the perspective of how this would work in the real world? Okay, now people can write that thing on the airplane? Does that now mean people can write anything on those airplanes? Do we have no standards? Can people not be allowed to be offended or want to stop anything anymore? Welcome to level 2 understanding where you see that many lines are arbitrary. Now it's time to level up if your intellect allows and see that just because lines are arbitrary does not mean there should be no lines
@@torinmccabe if I'm flying or on thr receiving end of bombs and phosphorus I really don't care what obscenities minor or major are written on the planes. From an entire outsider's perspective who feels he's the obvious good guy for watching it all unfold though twitter and complains about thr obscenity should either be slapped hard or thrust to the warzone so he can tell the pilot how he feels.
@@torinmccabe The problem is not with the censorship of sexaulity, but the inconsistency of censorship between sexuality and violence. If you go to the extreme that China does, for example, where video game blood are green, then at least I'd understand. But the way "western" media go about is completely illogical.
@@justanoman6497 The problem is the inconsistency? Why should the censorship of sexuality and violence be the same when they are very different things? Disgust, fear and anger are all "bad" but we don't treat them the same. There is no inconsistency in treating different things differently
I'm reminded of a Slaaneshmas comic that I read around December of last year. The Prince of Pleasure was handing out cookies to human children. Indescribably delicious cookies. The kind that you would happily murder your parents or your whole hab-block just to have one... more... taste... Slaanesh is truly the god of addiction.
@@Ultra04channel Emperor’s Children? Do I look like one of those decadent sycophants? I am a scion of the Night Haunter! A master of pain and terror, a lord of the night!
Slaanesh is just the most obvious obstacle to mainstream adoption. The real problem is that grimdark settings are almost by definition not "family friendly". This is also the problem I think the Cavill show has: any cleaned up mainstream adaptation would be dismissed as "not 40k" by the existing fanbase, while also being "just another setting" for people who are not already fans.
@@Storiaron Ya but Khorne worship has always been more accepted in media than Slaanesh worship. You can kill thousands of people in a movie but it won't go above 12+ as long as it is not "too graphic". But as soon as you show a single dick or vagina the movie will be rated 18+. Don't even get into the more depraved stuff that real Slaaneshis would be getting into like animals or children, which aren't allowed at any age range. Amazon is NOT getting anywhere near that. In any case "The boys" is just mild violence compared to what 40k cults are up to.
Listening to this, I'm reminded of that scene where Veck is psychologically torturing a prisoner by refusing to finishing his story with this man and the man starts to panic because of this due to the fact that this story might explain why he's in this situation and Veck is titilated by the fact that this man will never know ending as he's tortured forevermore. It's one of my favorite examples of the Dark Eldar emulating Slannesh in most vile and twisted ways that doesn't involve rape or sex or whatever. Veck is literally getting off to the fact that he knows and his victim doesn't. It's a wonderful example, imo.
One of the aspects of Slaanesh I feel is most under explored is how empathy can lead to heightened sensory experience. The more you can feel towards others, the more outward your experience is of the reactions and emotions of others. A psychopathic sadist, in a way, has more limits as to what they can feel and what they can think of to do with 'sensory experience'. To want others, is to want more beyond your singular experiential point. To be sadistically empathic is to wish for the feelings of others to be a certain way. And therefore it is an honest desire for harmony and empathy that can cause this decent into the warp as well, through Slaanesh. You lament often in this video about how Slaanesh isn't a chaos god of war, but it is through this avenue that I think 40k can expand on it, and who better to do it through but the Tau with their 'synchronizing' helmets. The Tau are often seen as 'too positive' for 40k and while I think this makes them a much needed light to shine more shadows into the narrative, I think there is some potential here as they ARE the optimistic, empathetic, harmony loving empire. Contrast them with the hivemind like Tyranids and I think you could get a very interesting grimdark battle filled story with many metaphors and explorations of this chaos god.
Followers of slaanesh are far too selfish and downright narcissistic to be empathetic to others, because that would require them to actually think about the thoughts and feelings of others something most worshippers of slaanesh are not capable of.
OG noise marines were painted that way as lore said they were so far gone and had immersed themselves in chasing higher highs for all their senses, that only the most garish and jarring colours would even register to them. Source: Realm of Chaos book, Slaves to Darkness. Now that was some good slaaneshi lore. ♥️
Wait, so like ALL of the colors except for the most garish and jarring wouldn’t register in their chaos infused brains? Would that mean they most likely see everything in an almost black and white saturation level?
@@SmokeySeasI think it’s more that anything less than absurd garish colors is so unappealing and bland compared to what their used to. That it no longer crosses their mind as even being worthy of consideration. It has to be “new” it has to be unheard of because they’ve already experienced everything worth doing.
I just read Shadowsword by Guy Haley. A rebelling planet suffers a coup by a nobleman who cuts a deal with Chaos, and Noise Marines arrive to help them battle the Imperium (it doesn't say they're Noise Marines nor does it mention Slaanesh, I don't think, but you can infer it from the descriptions; garish colours, insane music preceding them in battle, battlefield draped in purple mist which smells like intense perfume). At one point, the main character (who's an Imperial Guards baneblade commander) manages to surprise a Traitor Astartes and stab him through damage in his armor with a power sword. Rather than being angry or vengeful, the Noise Marine seems awestruck at having his "birth heart" destroyed, as he will never have another and it's a new experience, a new pain. He also implies it's the first time a mortal has wounded him. Rather than kill the soldier, he draws a dagger and offers to "explore" such new pains and experiences together, beginning to torture him, before the Black Templars arrive in the nick of time. I remember thinking "Okay, so extremes. They're all about extremes. Extreme noise, extreme sensation - pleasure, pain, whatever. F*ckin' hell, mate." Slaanesh and its minions are such an interesting concept for villains, compelled and driven by lust for extremes and excess. I also like how the book portrays the Imperial Guards being shocked that near-mythical Chaos Marines actually exist when they learn of their presence, and how afraid it makes them.
@@Turd_Rocket That sounds like a standard Slaaneshi marine tbh, people underestimate just how messed up they actually are. Noise marines are on a whole new level. >XD
As an alcoholic (not using), Slaanesh freaks me out far more than any other Chaos God. The fall of Fulgrim is a sad tale that parallels the fates of many I've known, minus the Demon Prince stuff. Excess is extremely tempting for some in a lethal amount of desire.
I'd argue that while addicts don't become LITERAL man-demon empowered by chaos, one could argue addiction certainly can make you a 'monster' in the sense your personality and relationships around you become so twisted and toxic you may as well become an all consuming creature of darkness.
I've always hated how alcoholics anonymous forces you to label yourself an alcoholic for the rest of your days. You are more than an addiction, don't saddle your self esteem with that stigma. You can beat it and move on with your life, thats what I did. And you don't necessarily need to subscribe to religion to overcome it, you can draw the strength you need from within, or your family and friends. I havent been able to look at booze without getting sick for the past 10 years, its not always a constant battle after you quit
@@JustadonkeyI’ve never understood it either, but I think there may be a difference between people who just drank a lot for awhile and actual “addicts”. I had a headache for a few days, but I’ve seen some of these guys fall on the ground shaking and puking when they stopped drinking. I’ve also not ever had an issue with “temptation”. Gotta be some difference in there.
Ugh, the terrifying thought of chaos creeping in the life of addicts is genuinely scary to anyone who's struggled with addiction. As a former invisible bars inmate myself, the idea of the immaterium creeping in with every hit or sip that's a goddamn NIGHTMARE! It's hard enough to deal with, without unreality itself maliciously driving you deeper into the spirals.
@@Aberinkula9 Same about that Chaos Marines bit. For the imperium I find the Tech Priests and Custodes more interesting than there space marines. Chaos has more risks for the individual. Not just death but too many chaotic gifts, God gets bored and eats ya, backstabbing or backstabbed yourself. Yet also Chaos has the capacity to make you immortal and have whole warbands follow you. You don't even need to be a space marine like Papa Luetin said. Chaos gives to all! The imperium just already admits your fodder in a faithful sense just to some husk on a throne that wasn't even his originally.
Yeah I'm normally Chaos Undivided but if I was to go monotheist with it I find Slaanesh the most interesting. How it can feed off the other gods because anything taken to excess strengthens them. It has the potential to be the most powerful and insidious
I prefer Tzeentch (Chirp Chirp), but losing Slaanesh would be an immense blow to the franchise. Slaanesh alone provides 80% of a very specifc form of content inspiration to the fanbase. Ever seen Khorne -specific content-? Its not good.
I absolutely love the Luetin videos that go go from WH40k lore (past and present references) -> modern day issues and shenanigans -> pop culture references -> philosophical theorising -> mentioning of other WH40k youtuber (mostly Bricky ❤😂) and then circiling back to the future of the WH40k lore and culture. Please keep making these fantastic videos no matter how long they take and how long they become in the end. PS: I still heard Dark Origins Part 5 mentioned in the video 😆My absolute favourite series on the channel and looking forward to the day when Part 5 is released ☺
Most of us could easily fall to Slaanesh. Everyone thinks they'd be Tzeentch or Khorne, but Slaanesh would claim most of us. Most disturbing, interesting and grimdark chaos "god".
My favourite thing to say in casual convo on slaanesh to rebut the "sex drugs and rock n roll god" is pointing out that cannibalism falls entirely under slaanesh. Its not explicitly violent and theres no war in it, so its not khorne. It doesnt pertain to seeking knowledge or change, so its not tzeentch. Its not stagnation or entropy, so its not nurgle. Only slaanesh could there be cannibalism for the sake of cannibalism.
"Its not explicitly violent and theres no war in it, so its not khorne. It doesnt pertain to seeking knowledge or change, so its not tzeentch." Unless you are a Space Marine. Or maybe a Kroot. 🙃
I go further than that. Cannibalism here goes to the desire for new pleasures, and the pleasure of eating and drinking would follow the same bounds. Nor, it should be noted, is sexual desire in any way limited. Not by consent, and not by majority status. You can probably infer where cultists end up going.
There is an episode of Stargate that has the SG-1 gang get interfaced with an AI that enhances their bodies to the point where they start to basically let all their intrusive thoughts win. Starts with them enjoying their lunch and ends with them trying to shock themselves with defibrillator. The AI craves new experiences and also gives them the ability to survive some of these experiences. Most of the people I know have seen this show and this episode so I just tell them Urgo is how Slaanesh starts, Hellraser is how it goes, and Lovecraft is how it scales up.
@@inthefade I thought so too. The cenobites being Slaaneshi demons or proto-demons. Like Pinhead says, "Explorers, in the further regions of experience. Demons to some, angels to others."
My question always is, why even have it in the first place? Literally everything in the entire brand is a risk. So much so that describing even the most tame stuff in the 40K setting is innately controversial, there's absolutely no way around it without fundamentally changing the whole brand from the ground up. But I wouldn't put it past GW to Endtimes 40K soon, just like they did with Fantasy. But knowing what came out of it, it's going to be ten times worse than the first train wreck.
@@ianmaluk1 because the normies cant handle a little bit of booba, d1ck and puzzy without throwing a tantrum because "too taboo" or "lewd". Because yes slaanesh is clearly only about sex and the moment you start writing about a god of excess and pleasure in a grimdark setting it turns a novel into 100% porn. Because the ork having a human breeding farm with lobotomized people for food is ok but slaanesh getting frisky is illegal. I gotta say its funny to watch from the sidelines as someone who is not afraid to talk nsfw, because *its a natural part of existence*
@@ianmaluk1 Slaanesh is a hold over from when GW was a smaller company, with a better grip on the identity of its properties, and wasn't so fixed on maximizing shareholder value. I've been saying it for a while now, but I genuinely believe 40k is headed towards an "End Times" like event that will radically reshape it's framework. One of the primary reasons I think this is because, like with Fantasy before it, GW has stopped treating 40k as a setting and started treating it like a narrative. Instead of focusing on independent, smaller scale stories couched in the setting, GW has been focused on massive galaxy altering stories that fundamentally shift, remove, or replace the framework of the broader setting - i.e. Primaris Marines, Primarchs coming back, splitting the galaxy in two, the Emperor straight up being a god that can tangibly hurt other gods, etc etc. I don't know if GW will straight up hard delete 40k like they did with Fantasy when rolling out AoS, but I can almost guarantee that 40k in a decade will be radically different than it was 5-10 years ago.
@maltheri9833 40K did just that for 30 years and did just fine. It was a backdrop setting for your plastic army men to fight someone else's plastic army men. Star Wars was a narrative story first, everything else came later. That is not the case with Warhammer.
As a sisters collector, (1st army almost at 1k points) i think slaanesh is important to my faction as the only one of the chaos gods a sister has fallen to, i think its one of the more interesting C gods
I'll be listening to this from start to finish, but I can pick up where this is going; Slaanesh is my favorite chaos god, not because of the "uwu sexytime" that people have attached to them, but because their "gift" and how they work is terrifying. Excess in things that give you pleasure. It can be anything. Making money? Get a job. Not enough. Build a company. Not enough. Build multiple companies. Not enough. Rob someone. Not enough. Start *redacted* people to take their money. Not enough. More more more. Even if the whole world has to go down, you still want MORE. Characters are pushed to further and further extremes to feel a better pleasure about the things they enjoy or are obsessed about, and they'll go to any ends in order to get it so it's just an eternal snowball speeding downhill, picking up all of the worst and most gruesome of things in order to get there, and if they have to destroy themselves to get that pleasure they'll happily do it because they're so insanely obsessed with that feeling. It can start as small and insignificant and maybe even feel and seem happy....but before you know it you're driven into performing the most gut wrenching, heinous, acts in order to chase a deeper pleasure. Excess in the most extremes. Excess to the point of being truly terrifying. Of COURSE it will be hard to stay with that and show it and tell stories about it with a wide audience who doesn't understand or refuses to accept that this is fiction....but horrific evil in stories is what makes "bad guys" good and multi-dimensional instead of flat and boring. I wish people, creators, etc. would stop losing sight of that.
and this is overall my point. We never get any illustrations of the true potential horror of Slaanesh, that someone would drive themselves to a truly insane scale of excess to devote themselves to Slaanesh - but its never that - its never as creative or interesting - its always, Emperors Children polishing their armour and feeling tingly all over.
@@Luetin09 Yeah, you brought up a good point in the video, which is that the actions of the Slaaneshi demons and traitor legions should, in theory, make the Drukhari look tame. And with how horrifying something like the haemonculi already are, there's no way GW is every going to risk depicting -- or likely even describing -- something so horrific. There wouldn't be enough trigger warnings in the world.
Yeah, totally agree. Slaanesh has an incredible potential for incredibly horrific consequences of mortal desires, but almost no one even tries to examine those subjects. Tzeench may not be the most popular chaos power as part of storytelling, and is also far from reaching his true potential, but at least not to that extent. Thankfully, quite a few writers attempt to dig into his complexity. Hope that both of them will shine more in the grim future) Edit: grammar mistakes
@@Luetin09 I thought that the depiction of Fulgrim's descent, as well as the artist on his ship, I forget her name, was pretty effective; his growing feeling that nothing was ever good enough, that the slightest perceived flaw in anything was intolerable, that his technically flawless sculpture was in fact flawed because it lacked soul, the horrifying reality of what perfectionism *really* means when you let its hooks dig into you, so deeply that they pierce your heart, AND WILL NEVER LET YOU GO: You will never be contented, you will never be comfortable in your own skin, you will NEVER have the one thing that you crave: ENOUGH. I love what you're saying here, though: That horror needs to be illustrated at the mundane level, too, because it is so incredibly pervasive, and a major, MAJOR contributor to the misery that we experience in our own world and lives, at all levels, from the most power-mad CEO or megalomaniac, to the most innocuous unhappy child.
People forget that Slaanesh's domain is six of the seven deadly sins. They forget he encompasses desire in so many aspects. He is subtlety, the slow fall. Yet people just see the character as silly daemon god big booby waifu.
Ayup, and frankly I want more exploration of that. More lore of people chasing the non-BDSM aspects, and frankly more models showcasing their followers chasing those alternatives. We need more Noise Marine like models, where it's about something else.
yes but the most potent and east forms of emotion is RAGE and PLEASURE. hence the Sadistic bdsm warriors. the problem is that 10% of the Shares of GW are owned by Idealog companies who try to force these stupid changes which ultimately destroy the franchise. which is why i look at companies that are public as being the least pro consumer there is.
@si2foo You can still depict things like Greed, Envy, Sloth, Pride, Gluttony, it doesn't have to just be Lust. Showing a single aspect make him little different from Khorne. Lust alone is boring.
Boobs are a must. Any aspects of life which don't revolve around boobs make me lose interest immediately. There's a bunch of elections coming up, with supposedly generational consequences. But nothing about boobs. Not interested.
Slannesh tracks with its "real life" equivalent Dionysus pretty well. On the surface, Dionysus is the "wine and party" god, but that is only a trap to ensnare mortals. Dionysus is the god of addiction and the moral degradation of the self. Hedonism is originally the fringe benefit, but becomes the whole focus of a person's life, at the expense of yourself and others. Dionysus is the personification of alcoholism and self degradation, and the decay that comes with all of that. Dionysus was forced into the Greek pantheon by pleasure cults that sprang up around the introduction of wine.
Presenting Dyonisus as a hedonistic god of excess and addiction was actually political propaganda, the Dyonisian cult was actually an anti-authoritarian humanist feminist philosophy that was not fundamentaly hedonistic, but instead employed hedonism as a political tool. Ironically this group did function much like a Slaanesh cult, which led to the reputation. They would invite the sons of important men to orgiastic parties and slowly indoctrinate then with anti-war anti-patriarchal ideology, causing them to go on to subvert Greek imperialism and patriarchal systems of land ownership.
Idunno if I'd quite say something THAT extreme since it paints dionysus as an explicitly malicious force. Though you're not entirely wrong. He was originally a Chthonic god with some degree of death, rebirth, and Madness under his control alongside his attachment to Wine.
One of the best examples of an interpretation of Slaanesh's influences comes from a comic bud I watched. It's cutesy appearance belies the true horror about to unfold after the stories end. Slaanesh gathers children in poverty, giving them food and toys, telling them "Merry Slaaneshmas" and encouraging them to enjoy. But as the story goes on we see the "toys" as actual weapons and the food as drugged. Then Slaanesh themselves revealing the truth that what comes after is the real celebration. One can only imagine the chaos as children bring ruin to the world around them, incapable of understanding anything beyond the happiness and merriment their experiencing. A mind incapable of understanding anything else. And I believe that's where Slaanesh's true strength and difficulty to interpret: the complete disconnect. Cause in an existence where everything is constant war and suffering it's all too easy to give up and focus on indulging. Cause when you have nothing else it's hard not to make that your only reason for being.
As a recovering addict I can say there is pain in wanting so without ever getting enough, exstacy in glimpses and bits that are short moments of relief in the torment you feel. Don't hate the addict, they already do that enough by themselves..
>people talking about how slaanesh is too NSFW >Nurgle showing constent grotesque imagery of maggots, gore, and vomit inducing infections I think modern media has far more hormy demons than anything even resembling something nurgle would show. Sure, weve seen zombies but, nurgle would make modern zombies grimace because hes so much more than walking dead people.
Some people (eg way, way too many) are way more upset by the biological realities of their own bodies and their sexual urges than they are diseased entities. That isn't meant to come off as reductive, but I mean every word I say.
Yeah, it is baffling how you can't slip a little more than usual of a boob but a video of people drinking liquid smoke and cutting to them suddenly violently vomiting without any censorship is apparently ok. I am speaking from experience.
Amazon and the boys? Sexual degeneracy and drug abuse is a cornerstone of left wing people in the west. Amazon is representative of relatively average people
the boys presents an interesting case, because imo it has presented tons of male nudity/sexuality implicitly combined with gore/violence. And actually shockingly little female nudity and sexuality by comparison (at least directly shown vs implied). This has carried over to Gen V as well. Part of me always wonders if this out of fear or as a reaction to the long tradition of hyper-sexualizing women in these types of media, or of the show is actually trying to say something with it.
You could do a grinch style story involving a slaanesh aligned chaos warband who are bored of the usual chaos stuff and in seeking a new experience decide to that it would be fun to save an imperial. So you’ve got these garish disfigured chaos space marines role playing as noble loyalists even shouting out loyalist one liners. at the end after being heralded as the emperors angels and model space marines their reminded of the day they were granted the emperors Aquila and the pride they felt being called the emperor’s children. The only thing that ever came close to that day was the look on their former allies and brothers faces during the drop site massacre. So feeling nostalgic and hoping to recapture that look of terror and disbelief they decide to torch the planet they saved.
It’s similar to the grinch because you have these ugly ass creature going around being nice and saving the day and the citizens learning to not judge based on appearances Only for the chaos marines to decide to go back to being evil.
I had a similar problem when trying to make Slaanesh chaos knights, Khorne is easy, nurgle equally so. But I essentially concluded that Slaanesh was (and this is very much head cannon) - A twisted sense of "Regality" appearing as the most beautiful and extreme thing in the room, being the most eye catching - An addiction to chasing the dragon, one upping yourself each time - To increase the overall amount of extreme experience in the galaxy - "Idol worship" seeing a sense of righteousness in pushing the limits of ability or understanding in a particular obsession (lucious in sword mastery, fabius bile in weird experiements) Some other great examples are the description of human beings first experiencing the laer temple for the first time in Fulgrim The way people describe being touched by Witchers in the witcher book series, perfect way of incorporating sensation into the lore without pissing off James Workshop in a way that would fit Slaanesh
In the book "Never Let You Go", there's a scene where the young-teenage protagonist is singing whilst holding a pillow and dreaming that it's a baby of her own. A "teacher" walks in and is frozen in pure horror - not for invading this private moment, but because she knows there-and-then that the humanity of this moment will be stripped from her as the society has already planned to take her organs. She will never know her own children, she will never have what many might even call a "mundane" future to look forwards to, she is but a thing. Luetin is right - you can express profound emotion even in the most trivial of scenes.
@@callusklaus2413 It's not quite what mordante01 is mentioning. It's more about the fact that there are problems that are difficult or hard to answer that fall under what Slaanesh represents. Making others desire something and then changing the nature of it so it never is sated, or cultivating fear for purpose of selfish profit. There is the demonization of sexual desire but that isn't anywhere close to the first two. So you could say slaanesh is also the great evil of 'anti-consumer practices'. Compare that to korne that is just strait up hate murder machine or something like nurgle that is just pestilence and plague.
@@mordante01 That is the most basest and dumbest stereotypical generalization of the US when it comes to Slaanesh. 40k was CREATED in the USA. It's not that at all. It's what Slaanesh can represent and what is...abhorrent when it comes to what type of person that comes into the worship of Slaanesh. Every serial killer. Every PDF file. Every r*pist. Every drug dealer. BDSM. Slavery of all kinds. Gluttony. Lust doesn't have to be sexual. You can lust for food.and cars. It's the HORRIFIC end result that is hard to stomach. And unfortuanately, that involves more...s*xual exploitation of others. Almost all criminal desires are rooted in 2 things---sex and anger. THAT is hard to sell.
Really enjoy the "Uncomfortable Problem" in his section. Great dialogue about 'spicy' content and the almost backwards hidden crusade against it. Well done Luetin.
Nearly 2k views within 10mins - Congratulations Luetin, it fills my heart with joy when i see your fully deserved success! Just basically stay that great guy, that's what and who we love!
Just gonna say, their revenue has skyrocketed the last two years, so......if you want them to be upset about their pivot....... probably not happening. 4 years my bad.
The problem with depicting She who thirst in current time is that it will it WAY too close to home to people who will go thru a mental breakdown when they realise they are the villains.
This is all pretty cringe my brothers. The original comment is implying something, but it's unclear. Are they suggesting LGBTQ people resemble slaaneshi daemons or vice versa? I could see why someone who had a particular bias might see it that way, but I think an individuals preferences are irrelevant. You could just as easily mutate an ovipositor and transcend human sexuality entirely.. I feel like someone who is worried about LGBTQ people are being played in a game by rich people who spread propaganda to demonize leftist voters who might vote against their interests, so minorities, anti-war protestors, environmentalists, gay people etc etc. Anyone who votes left. In reality being on that side of the culture war makes you a pawn in an ugly game of deception, like an unwitting pawn of tzeentch. Maybe it's you who are the villians, but not even the powerful ones.
53:40 Explicit extreme violence being okay but sex/nudity being not okay is NOT a global human phenomenon. It's very much an American (Anglo-saxon?) obsession, as one is put to the extreme, while the other is censored into oblivion. Splatter and body gore in one horror movie scene and then afraid to show a single bare nipple in the next never fails to make me chuckle.
Yup anime is a primary example of this stuff in japan is usually uncensored until gets to America (4kids) like at one point they had the white paint which replaced blood at one point i bet you could imagine why that didn’t last long
It is no more unusual than the inverse. Aside from which, any accurate portrayal of Slaanesh would require disregarding consent as a concept and age of majority. Are you asking for those concepts to be displayed? This is the danger of moral relativism, by the way.
Commenting on the reasoning for the obsession with sex over violence: Violence always seems far off and fantastical from the perspective of the average person historically. It doesn't really affect you until its already on top of you and it kills you. Sex surrounds us at all times. It is simply the more common concern/anxiety to have across all times and places. On a separate note, places like Japan, China, etc. have very strict censorship laws regarding nudity, some of which are even constitutionally enshrined. This is, in fact, a global phenomenon. People have always been like this
Vox in the Void has a great story about Kharn and the world eaters attacking a Slaanesh daemon world, definitely recommend it if you want a more nuanced portrayal
Thank you for explaining my exact thoughts on Slaanesh in far better constructed detail than I ever could. I would love a novel detailing the darkest reaches of who I consider the most terrifying entity in all of 40k
@@victorrosenheart8036 Frankly the darkest reaches of Slaanesh have nothing to do with erotica. Sex is the easy reach, not the darkest. It's more like breeding in OCD into whole populations as a primary trait. Generational trauma. Corruption of basic biological functions and drives. Frankly, having a Slaanesh corrupted world be chaste because all of their focus is on something else, overriding the drive to breed, is much more disturbing.
@@leadpaintchips9461 That’s the fun With Slaanesh! Endlessly possibilities! Sex is one root, and it would work. But, we could do your idea! Everyone just spending the whole day drinking or something.
"do you, thirst for knowledge? do you, want magic powers? and do you, want to see the 4D fractal nature of spacetime? joining me will grant you all of this and more. ignore the tentacles"
Thank you for the vid. I'm new to warhammer and Slaanesh was always the one to make me the most uncomfortable, but I could never put my finger on why. Now I understand, of all the chaos god, the one asking "but is it a crime wanting to be happy ?" Hit the hardest. Of course it's a false promise, but it's so innocent, enticing, in the mist of warhammer violence, or even mondain life... Slaanesh is terrifying because he is the only one who's "gifts" Are real for us normal humans. We will never be immortal and indifferent to illnesses, know all and change things at will, or even kill people who pisses us off without consequences or guilt. But it's easy to want money, to want to erase the sadness, to drink "a little", to sleep instead of going to an awfull job...
Surprised you didn't mention the HH novel Fulgrim. I realise it's mostly concerned with astartes, but a large chunk of the story is given over to the remembrancers descent into depravity.
It is a shame that a lot of franchise dilute into safer material in order to chase the casual market profit. It seems like a lot of these companies don’t believe that there’s an audience smart enough to make profit off of? Maybe it’s just based on laziness on the companies, part, like a drawing with very little detail and shading but still can be recognizable. Either way it makes me personally sad in the grand scheme of things.
It's not about chasing a casual market, but rather controlling the narrative. There is a reason that this is a multi-institutional, industry-spanning, cross-cultural sort of effort that only seems to exist exclusively in publicly traded media. The reason they are banning fan content is explicitly because they want to possibly induce dramatic change in how warhammer is seen and portrayed. EG Genderbending entire factions, Slaanesh being removed or made "good", or other similar bizarre changes.
@Gogglesofkrome Seems less like Slanessh is being "made good" and more like they're being slowly erased. The shareholders obviously wish to remove She Who Thirsts, but they can't or the fans who enjoy the grim-dark would get angry. But they also don't have enough mass market appeal to make up for the mass exodus that would inevitably occur, so they're stuck. It's sad, really. I don't want some corpos robbing the setting of one of the most interesting factions.
@@Ultra04channel I didn't think they actually were trying to turn slaanesh good, I was just trying to give example of the fact that it looks like they really want to change the quality for the worse
@@Ultra04channel capitalism ruins everything. It's basic principle is dehumanising everything and turning it into materialistic profits. Scourge of the world.
I firmly believe that Slaanesh won't be sidelined. They had the perfect opportunity to start the process with It being sent to horny jail in AoS, but signs are pointing towards It escaping. I know they're technically separate settings, but I believe GW would use AoS to test the waters if they planned for this sort of change. Also, I can see plenty of ways to keep the horror of Slaaneshi worship without being distasteful, even if it's just as simple as keeping the worst off-screen and letting imagination do the rest (a pretty classic horror technique).
@@Ultra04channel And every discussion around that story is either "Look how screwed up the setting is! Honest!" or "That book is just stupid, even GW doesn't want anything to do with it and the Black Library has a pretty low bar."
@@leadpaintchips9461 i think the problem with the daemonculaba is the meme’s and the fact people say the iron warriors made it even tho it was created by a subsect of the dark mechanicum that specializes in bio technology
I agree except for the fact that the horror being imagine being a consistent tool. Not you, but I feel like many new age puritians are fine with the gore of khorne or the body horror od Tzeetch but want to hide from slannesh. It's laughable imo
@leadpaintchips9461 Yes, BUT, counterpoint... Imagine how many sales of that book they've made entirely because of people's morbid curiosity as to what that thing is. Besides, people still talk about it, extremely frequently. So technically, GW should have an incentive to make 40K horror occasionally.
This is one of your best videos, Luetin. Your remarks are well thought out, thought provoking, and entertaining. Thank you for digging into these facets of 40k.
You know... Having read or listened to I dunno, 300 novels, short stories, audio dramas etc... I don't remember a single sex scene in 40k that was anywhere near as explicit as the rather tame sex scenes in the Dune books... GW/BL are clearly terrified of getting the Bad Sex award...
Tbf I'm cool with just hearing secondhand about the emperor's children r*ping a planet to death, I don't need a descriptive assessment of it lol. There is a line between edgy and cringe, and I get why they don't want to go past it.
@@cabnbeeschurgr 100% There’s a thin line between hilariously edgy and just plain awful. Warhammer tends to toe the line very well imo. When it comes to rape, I always prefer it when they don’t take it further than second hand account or brief mention if they even include it at all.
This is why I rate you above all the other 40k creators. Your explorations and expansions on how things are perceived always gives me a better perspective with which to view subjects and narratives within the setting. Your content always manages to expand my view in new ways that I deeply appreciate.
@@georgeaird4637 as a Deldar fan...I'm so goddamned sad right now on how true this is lmao. but hey a recent book featured Dark Eldar (Da Big Dakka, also features Orks!), and they feature very prominently in Rogue Trader (the CRPG video game by Owlcat). There's some bits of fun for us still...Also a new Lelith Hesperax book that's set post Vect dying and getting resurrected, hell yea.
Psychological horror is often discounted as unrealistic because people believe that they would never get that low. Often times even stating more fantastic ideas of being prepared or fighting back during extreme events. Its this unwillingness to visit vulnerable parts in ones self that leads to the sale, popularity, and success of more generic sorts of slasher horror. It's a shame because theres deeper world building topics that are just avoided due to the lack of revenue theyd generate.
For literally all the reasons you suggested, I've like speculated that Games Workshop is looking for a way to kill off Slaanesh and replace them with another chaos god (i.e. Vashtorr). Maybe leave trace amounts of influence, but Slaanesh is already one of the least thematically represented gods anyway exactly because of how difficult it would be in a way that wouldn't just create needless controversy, even if you don't go the lewdapocalypse route. A lot of people also suspect some kind of endtimes events like in fantasy warhammer that transitions the universe into a different state and many thought the splitting of the imperium would be that, but hey maybe it will be, with a literal light vs dark imperium now eternally fighting each other. One backed by an empowered Emperor and his reawoken/returned primarchs and the others empowered by Bile's new humans, the dark mechanicus, and Vashtorr's addition to the chaos Pantheon to replace Slaanesh. This would also allow the eldar to have a second wind and refresh as a faction too as some of their former power returns, maybe do something with infinity circuit souls being reborn into like super eldar of some kind or something.
The Fourth Kind really messed me up. Hit sorta close to home as at the time I would often have weird sleep disturbances that I later learned was seizure activity. The idea of the Filthy Xenos being right up there with the Primordial Annhilator as biggest enemies of mankind is, I think, Is right on the money. The movie Fire in the Sky gives me the creeps as well. The scene when he wakes up on an alien ship, in a completely incomprehensible setting and situation (zero g) is not what I would call a fun experience. I always think of the pair of eye glssses floating there, sans owner…that always gets me.
I think because Slaanesh is a part of us we're afraid to look into, what we might find. Mindless violence? Just blame Khorne... Decay and death? Again, blame Nurgle... But the pleasure in other's suffering and god knows all the rest? That already hits a little close to home. We can see this in a society that expects you wanting more, finding the next thing to fill an empty void, making you feel good, excess etc etc. God only knows what lurks in the minds of people who have done everything and want the next thing, and that's without the imaginary fuel from a setting such as 40k.
Well Slanessh is so much more terrifying and also easier to depict actually. It is excess. Like a planetary gov who addicted of tobac wants to get even better product, or a priest being too much devoted to the Emps leading a Slaneshi corruption, or a kasarkin captain being too pridefull of doing their duties, or a manifactorum worker having way to enjoyment producing ammo for the guard. It can be the most subtle or the most obvious things. But when depicting it they go all for s.x sells and then act like they are the victims of public media. Yes it is also a part of it, no it doesnt needs to be that much s.x gore. Actually almost everything in Imperium lies in the domain of Slanesh and Tzeench, like Inqusition can/(head canon) is a breeding ground of Slanesh and Tzeench corruption.Thats perhaps why we dont get to see legendary Inqusitors kept alive with gene therapies and etc. If they depict Slaneesh and its corruption as what it is and what it can be then there wouldnt be any reason for GW so stay away from Slanesh content.
I wouldn't mind the Ynnari's big plan succeeding but only half-way: the Eldar souls are freed, but Slaanesh isn't killed or sealed away. I'd like there to be more focus on Slaanesh, more depth, but I will always have Eldar, and just Xenos in general, ahead of everything else in terms of enjoyment and what I want to see more of. My knife ears need a win for once
I need an honest answer. Is there really so few Eldar fans in the 40k community? If so, then yeah, might explain why GW isn't doing anything with them. ;/
@@Archon3960 that's GW own fault, you can't just push for ten thousand billions of imperium content and just give each xenos faction a small footnote of lore/minis in wich, especially the case of the eldar, they are always the losing side of the conclict to a painful point, and this comes from a space elf fan
Yeah, I want my Eldar to be free from the curse of Slaanesh. I say get rid of Slaanesh entirely. Just replace him or whatever with someone else. How about just make one good Chaos god?
I think there is real potential for an organic decline of Slaanesh. She is the goddess of excess and I think hedonism is a very closely linked concept to excess. As we all know, hedonism is not productive, it sacrifices the future for the present and that makes it a notable flaw. Slaanesh might have that flaw built into her by design, somewhat akin to a drug addict that is still functional, yet slowly but surely sees her life derailing. Slaanesh's very essence just seems to be somewhat opposed to focused, ambitious, productive behaviour. It could very well be that she's hedonistically living on borrowed time, from past achievements, peaking at the fall of the eldar, but slowly declining from there. Meanwhile the other gods are as steady and focused as ever, leading to them increasingly outcompeting her in then great game. Maybe there is a breaking point and it's closer than we think. With Slaanesh being as relatively young as she is, her longevity certainly isn't as sure as that of the other gods anyway. It could very well be that her existance, on a cosmic scale, is just a slight fizzle.
"The pursuit of happiness", that is, fighting to have a life with meaning that fulfills you, a maxim touted already by Thomas Jefferson, is an hedonistic concept (Epicurean)...I don't think people understand hedonism too much...
I think it's important to note that Khorne is one such Chaos God who can only consume and consume until there is nothing left. He cares not how, but only that blood is shed and spilled in his name. Tzeentch wants eternal change, but that will become unsustainable too because he wants far too much change. Only Nurgle really seems to understand that there are cycles, ebbs and flows, and is fine with that. Decay creates room for growth, things that grow can decay.
Noise Marines are appealing for people outside the verse since to us they just appear to be heavy metal rockers or dubstep DJs who weaponize their music. In universe, the sounds that Noise Marines make is more akin to blaring CrazyBus at a literal earth shattering volume while their breathing is a dial-up modem at that same volume. In general, servants of Slaanesh are embody the hedonism of the hair metal era and all that entails, good and bad. The pursuit of pleasure to the point of crippling addiction to sensation, whether it be physical or emotional.
For anyone interested in some damn good slaanesh audio dramas I can't recommend A Vox in the Void enough. His videos focusing on a wayward noise marine are superb
I have always said Slaanesh is possibly the strongest Chaos God. The god of “EXCESS”, all things to excess. Not just torture and sexy time, but also the more esoteric ideas. The Khornite warrior that reveals not just in slaughter and blood, but his own ability for it. The Nurgle worshiper, feeling the pleasure of the plagues she spreads, or a sorcerer who basques in the complex scheming of his plots. Those acts of excess are what draws the attention of She Who Thirsts. But over all yes. I do agree that Slaanesh is more or less the idea of how subtle corruption can start.
I like this interpretation. Even in the Total War trailers, you can see the Slanessh daemon immediately get interested when he sees a Khornate warrior tearing through his forces with ease. Not fear, not "Ah yes, a worthy opponent", it's intrigue. A bit of pleasure too. But in the end, Chaos is all feeding each other more without even realizing it. The excess of the other three feeds Slanessh, the wars waged by them feeds Khorne, the underhanded schemes to take over planets feeds Tzeentch, and the inevitable decay caused by every last destructive action feeds Nurgle.
On the contrary, that’s precisely why they must. Modern society is infatuated with removing all limits, shattering all taboos. However, the pleasure is always temporary, and requires ever-greater excesses to relive. This ends in pain and horror. Just ask anyone bed-ridden from gluttony how happy and content they are, and they’ll tell you the only pleasure they have is from eating. That’s Chaos. In other words, it would hit way too close to home for modern people. The soulless, empty existence of excess. Reminding people of the pain and loneliness in their escapism is not a good idea.
THE SADNESS by Rob Jabbaz (2021). It's a taiwanese movie. I think it pictures a good example of what a Slaneeshi psychic infection could be, similarly to the Khornate psychic infection in "Ark of Omens Angron". Maybe even the Fall of the Eldars on a small scale (Eldars minds would make it ten times worst...). It's basically horrible and gore but mostly very disturbing, because beyond the fictionnal aspect it points out some questions about the human mind and its darkest/dirtiest parts : what if every societal rules and moral codes collapsed in an instant and Mr Everybody's brain/mind became uninhibited, super imaginative and obcessed with the pursuit of pleasure through cruelty? Be aware it's not for eveyone, but this discussion really reminds me of this movie. I agree that the Slaneeshi corruption should be a little more detailed in the lore, but up to a limit of course. It's understandable that GW/BL are very cautious about that, as an uncensored Slaneeshi lore wouldn't affect everyone in a positive way, even if it's fictionnal. Or they edit PEGI 18 books! Anyway, thank you so much for these amazing contents you create. I've been following your channel since 2 years and I have to say it has enriched so much my journey into the 40k verse!! Cheers
Have you considered this angle: Saturation? Of all the chaos gods, our own world has drifted towards Slaanesh the most. Not just recently, but going back more than three millenia. I'm not saying you SHOULD, but just try a 3 day, 5 day, month long bender... or look at a practicing hedonist. The vast majority of people simply CAN'T reach or maintain the level of indulgence and depravity demanded by even low level worshipers of Slaanesh. Those that can actually hate themselves and don't know how to escape the cycle. I for one want Warhammer to be about... War. Sure the other deeper darker deviousness is there, but it's better that it's given an air of mystery. If I wanted to go full slaaneshi, the dark web is just a few clicks and types away... but the fact remains most people don't actually want that. It's bad for business, bad for the mind, bad for enjoyment. I mean seriously, how many times can you "experience" something intense before it becomes revolting? That's the whole point of the Slaanesh horror... not being able to stop. Merely imagining the depths and endlessness of your fate is enough.
Unfortunately, this is the one thing I feel will probably happen due to Amazon's intervention. I don't like it, but unfortunately, Slanessh is something the general audience would complain about. I do hope the fourth chaos faction isn't removed, but removing the grim-dark from the far future is certainly something that the corpos running the show would do to drive engagement and sales.
Seeing Idoloftheeasr's art had me giggling and I was very surprised to hear a reference to Soren. The true horror of Slaaneshbis something worth exploring and I hold out some hope for interesting story. We'll see.
I always thought of Slaanesh as the whole grey area of: where does pleasure end and pain begin, or vice versa? When does indulgence become addiction? What choices turn a surplus into an excess? Slaanesh always seems like a foundation for everything. Pride in slaughter can be Slaanesh or khorne. Enjoying manipulation and coercion can be Slaanesh or Tzeentch. Being a plague doctor and enjoying the pain of your own infections could be Slaanesh or Nurgle. Etc etc… Slaanesh just overlaps with the others in weird ways.
in honour of the passing of James Earl Jones. example of Slannesh in movies? The Snake Cult in Conan. The whole scene when Arnie and co break into the castle, through the kitchens where people are being drawn and turned into soup? followed by the orgy. followed by JEJ turning into a literal snake? yeah.. Slannesh shite, right there...
It's time for a new franchise to explore this fully. Slaanesh & Tzeentch are the most interesting adversaries in all of Sci-Fi because they so clearly mirror major current problems. Tzeentch: "Progress & novelty are always good. Tradition is outdated oppression!" Slaanesh: "The ends always justify the means. Aim for your personal utopia at any cost!"
@@spambot_gpt7 We are not allowed to criticize such things, because the LG4KTV+ will be offended. Therefore any meaningful critique thru fantasy setting is verboten.
@@spambot_gpt7 Look, they dont want to cater to old male fans anymore, they started catering to chicks. Female custodes n'shieeet. They despise the straigt male. They would rather have the mystical "Modern Audience"TM
I agree fiction has to be explicit with the sordid details of its setting. I am so tired of pretensions critics who think it is masterful writing to be vague and implicate bad things happening rather than be explicit. Many berserk panels still give me nightmares. You absolutely must show and tell the reader in excruciating detail the level of horror and depravity that is occurring. Something horrible has happened can either be an orgy of torture or your shopping bag ripping open and spilling out all your food.
The masterful thing is to make the reader/watcher feel it. For that you can imply and leave in the dark, but eventually you have to show, and at that moment you better show an image that's perfectly crafted or it's going to fail hard. Showing too early or with not enough impact (like most modern horror movies) is just as bad as constant implication with obvious fear of showing anything clear. That's why Berserk is so good, it shows you how horrible the world is woth excruciating detail, so much so it costed Miura and his aides a lot of their health to keep the level of quality; and yet Miura knew how to make you anticipate and fear what was coming (the "elven" children are a great example, you just know something is going to go wrong but the moment it is put there for you to realize is when you get slapped with disgust and horror)
This really gets to the heart of why I find the meme of Slannesh so exhausting. I'm a staunch Guard loyalist, but if I had to pick a Chaos God, it's Slannesh, simply for the variety that their domain provides. I loved how in Owlcat's Rogue Trader, there's a book you can find in Vyatt's secret chambers detailing the obligation of nobility to cannibalize their subjects and to savor the experience. How Vyatt's fall is itself motivated by the desire to perfect Janus and serve impeccably. It's a little taste of what the full breadth of a "Slannesh POV" looks like for normal people. And the reaction of outsiders is fear and confusion. The Rebels don't know what is going on, they just know that they get sprayed in mutagenic chemicals, and people get taken into the palace and never seen again, and that the planet itself seems to be reacting to whatever horrors they're barely sensing. The fact they're being puppeted by the Eldar really doesn't matter much. They couldn't give a name other than Vyatt to their terror, but the saw the tiniest sliver of what that terror was, and knew to fear and lash out against it.
I like Slaneesh in how the evil it represents is so contemporary! And how the Eldar that provoked Slaanesh into existence basically come off as a caricature of humans. They're everything we are. Except even more so! My theory is that the old ones designed them to be the ultimate self perfecting organism. And to find pleasure in this constant need to supercede themselves. And when the war in heaven ended they turned this tendency inward. Towards reaching ever higher climaxes in whatever they put their mind too. This lead to an endless need for new sensations and even greater heights. And unlike humans their euphoria will never make them slothful and inactive. Just desensitized. They will just keep reaching. And that's why the Craftworld Eldar teaches it's members to hyperfocus on one thing and one path. Because the Eldar mind is by nature active, extremely intelligent, obsessive and hyperconscious. It needs discipline to not be a deranged, detached addict. But yeah. Slaanesh is the most psychologically interesting of the chaos gods. And should remain so. He/She is raw and profound in its implications.
OMG... I'm lying in a hospital bed recovering from a hip operation thinking, God I really hope Luetin drops a new video so I can just relax and block everything out. And then boom...there you are. Your definitely my apothecary of choice.
The film Seven could be a really great template for the exploration of the nature of Slaanesh. It shows very little by way of graphic content, but shows enough to stimulate the viewers imagination, which will always conjure far more horrific imagery than can be put on screen. A crime story that follows an Inquisitor investigating ever more serious and brutal crimes, seeing that progression from perhaps a sudden crime of passion into something much darker and giving rise to a Slaanesh cult, but while using the same model of suggestion and hints that Seven did could be a utterly gripping watch. I'd also be fascinated to have a "Final days of the Eldar" where Seers see what will come to pass but are ignored or dismissed. One of the tragedies of the Star Wars Prequels that I think gets overlooked is that fans know what Anakin's fate is. similar tale where we see various Eldar figures desperately trying to prevent the Fall could be a a good watch. I think Chaos can be depicted in its full, untamed horror, but only if writers are clever with their techniques. No, we can never put the full horror onto film, but that would lessen the impact of that horror. The terrors not seen are the ones that scare us the most after all.
Desire as the death of duty is clearly a theme I think GW/Black Library writers will always want to have in the locker, so I'm not convinced we'll see 'The Death of Slaanesh' (Tm). To say nothing of the way that the theme of debauched excess can be used a mirror through which our own society can be satirised. I think, like much of 40k lore first devised in the 1980s and 90s, it is already in the process of metamorphosis to remain relevant to a modern audience, and no doubt as with any such change some people will appreciate that and others will not.
I love the imagery and extent of slaanesh things when you actually get to see them or really think about how really fucked up they are. It's something that's almost taboo to touch on in any way that does it justice because of the extremes of it compared to anything else it feels like.
Real world people that would worship slaanesh would never acknowledge that anything they do is extreme or unreasonable. Hellraiser type stuff would be a Tuesday afternoon to them.
I love your comparison with Clive Barker, his works fit very well with Slaaanesh and Weaveworld has some great examples that could translate well. The early Jaq Draco novels started to explore the Slaaaneshy perversions well but it seams that Warhammer pulled back from those halcyon days
Cegorach vs Slaneesh with the laughing god getting the last laugh to save his people is the most poetic end. I could see the Khan and the yellow king's pocket dimension have ties Cegorach.
Something like a year or more ago i watched/listened to a story about a person who was trying to get to the palace of slaanesh and how he had to go through all the layers of slaaneshs realm. It was such a cool story told feom the perspecrive of the perso who was overcoming all slaaneshs tenptations. It was like an hour or more long, i have been looking for that same videos since then. Thats why im watching this video. Was such a cool story/video im so bummed i never saved it n now its forever lost in the youtube void 💔😔
According to legend, it was a Grey Knight who ultimately fell when he hesitated as Slaanesh itself took the form of a child, exploiting what was left of his humanity.
The goal of hedonism is freedom. Freedom from constraint. May start wholesome and just enough, freedom from hunger as a hive worker, some minor pleasure in their mundane life. Then it can be freedom from morality as the person does whatever to survive and gain what they want. Freedom from death, freedom from shame. They might even see it as an enlightened state. They have seen pass the norms, the consensus they tell themselves. In case of Fulgrim he gained it all, an immortal prince free from everything, in control of his daemon world, Reality his plaything but its never enough, it will never be enough and everything suffers around him. So can someone who seeks freedom in a search of heaven find themselves forever trapped in hell. The enlightened becoming base and unfulfilled. This angle to slaanesh i think is under utilized. The horror of slaanesh is not just the torture, the sex, the hedonism, but the journey of the character into that state and how their desire for freedom led them to a pathetic existence of endless hedonism. .
The idea is to make 40k more and more marketable and consumed by the general public. "Grimdark" is being filtered out to just be a general power fantasy sci-fi
That is the main reason why Ultramarines rub me the wrong way. They're authoritarians, kinda, but nothing like the grimdark of the rest of humanity. It's safe.
Well, GW did delete Slaanesh from AOS. Also there is a thing with re-design of Keeper of Secrets to current stylized brazilian dancer type? I think previous design was much more raw and sensual/emotional.
@@ravirage6780 ...But they did. They're just sort of... Dormant forever in that setting at this point. There's not really any plans to bring them back, so yes, they're gone.
I'll actually defend the new Keeper of Secrets tbh. Slanessh is all about excess and perfection, or perfectionism. The regular daemons, daemonettes, and cultists can be excess, since there's so many of them, and the Keepers of Secrets can be the perfection side of things. Tall, elegant, androgynous, and somewhat alluring while still looking a bit alien, yet humanoid all the same.
Slaanesh is already much more 'family friendly' than it was back in Slaves to Darkness in the late 1980s. That book had plenty of boobs etc and I was lapping up the naughtiness but mostly the general, shocking horror of it all as a 14 year old.
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Black Templars need not watch this video... stay strong brothers in the face of endless thirsting temptation. As always a ton of plans in the works, appreciate your viewership greatly - please do LIKE and tell me your thoughts about the representation of Slaanesh in 40K (praisethechangerofthewaysthecomingandgoingtheevershiftingtidesofthewarpandmaterialspace)
stop making me nervous! As an Black Templar AND Slaanesh player I can barely press the play button! :-D
Khorne is the most mysterious chaos god. Ey yo.... let's see how this goes.
I love black guys.
The moment GW moved its games from being 80s-edgy-niche and aiming for a wider appeal It had to refurbish and move with the times, like they did with the SoB. Slaanesh keeps an awkward spot. The 'martial perfection' bit is Khorne's. Intrigue and seductiveness, Tzeentch. Decadence feels Nurglish. Raving debauchery overlaps with the Drukhari (which makes sense). How do you go for the latter whilst keeping It PG? AoS kinda does It, but barely.
Why portraying utter carnage or body horror is OK but the mere allusion to nudity is shut down is a whole topic on its own
@@martinpolo5812Wait... WHAT?! That's kinda hawt, come to think of it
"Presenting temptation as a bad thing is a problem."
- Big company tempting me to buy little plastic toys
If you don't see the fnord, the fnord can't eat you.
Blud don’t buy from them they are greedy get a 300$ 3d printer and print entire armies of plastic toys
If you're being tempted into torturing others or being horrifically tortured yourself... no screw it, I'm shaming the hell out of that kink. That's NOT healthy, like in the literal physical sense.
Can I tempt you to shut up?
@@abeerzeeshan9136 "Don't buy food at the store, buy a farm instead and grow your own!"
Imagine killing off a chaos god before emperors children get new models
Well, they killed of an entire setting before, so wouldn't be that surprising
Bitter laughing in mechanicus codex
It worked for AoS, didn't it?
@@ErikWarhammer Kissing GW's ass worked, didn't it?!"
lol my head cannon would be Trazyn threw something so his clonegirm would be the only one
The only thing keeping Slaanesh from GW's Wrath is GW's even bigger wrath against allowing non-human characters to do anything majorly plot relevent.
Simple. Have Rowboat be central to the plan to kill slaanesh. You get human character doing thing and it's grandpapa smurf so there is your ultra marines cannon sue boner groups satisfied.
The eldar seriously need more world building and involvement in the story especially when it involves slaanesh. Space knife ears needs love sometimes too.
Isnt the whole concept of Warhammer that it is told from a human perspective?
Focused inwards, ignorant of what happens around.
@@andrefasching1332It is, but said human perspective was never completely static, either. Humanity reacts to goings-on.
@@hedlund the imperium is properly reacting to change? Since when?
Former heroin and meth addict here (6 years clean), those self-indulgent desires always start so small and so slow, until before you know it, you're doing things you NEVER thought you'd ever do.
When people see people banging drugs on the street, they always imagine that they'd never ever do such a thing.
But the real horror is that most of those same people saw and said the same thing. I know i did.
But there comes a point where the satisfaction of the high is all you have left, you lose everything else.
As an Addict myself,i think because of our lived experience we have an insight Into slaanesh few others have
@@Dr.Instabil And it really is a ritual. The sickness, the pickup, the anticipation, the preparation, the relief, and the counting down again until the pain comes back. 'Round and 'round and 'round we go. You do become a sort of fanatic or cultist. It changes your appearance and your personality. It leaks from your insides through pimples and sores. It warps your mind and wraps itself around your soul deep deep down with its hooks embedded in your very being... lol, very "grimdark."
Even all these years later, that demon on my shoulder rears its ugly head and screams to be satisfied, and I fight every single day. Luckily, I've got new "rituals," and those seem to be working! 💪
Life is good. Stay strong, my friend.
Everyone has their weaknesses, but it's not always the same weaknesses.
Some people will never do drugs, drink alcohol, or gamble no matter how bad things get. They'll seek some other escape that becomes a crippling vice.
@@techpriest6962 Honestly, throughout my time, I've come to realize that a lot of addictions really are the same. It's an addiction to the endorphins and the dopamine release. There's lot of different ways to get there, but when someone has a serious problem, the outcome can end the same way.
For example, one drug can be just as devastating as another even if they're socially thought of on different levels.
For example, back in the day, if I have a beer, it's whatever. I don't need more, I can have 1 and walk away, and it's no biggie to me. If my brother has one, it's over he'll drink everything he can get his hands on. Spiral out of control and end up arrested for driving or threatening someone. That's why he's also sober.
I'm the same way with meth. One hit or shot, and I'm GONE for a week
I'll spend my money, I'll do super dumb stuff, I'll end up in the woods running from stuf that's not there.
Some people can be like that with sex or gambling. It's all just different ways of hitting that dopamine button, and for some reason, we can deal with *some* vices just fine with no effect, and others absolutely take over.
Now that I'm so familiar with addiction, I can see it in so many things sometimes. It's all just different paths to the same end. It's just a matter of how far one travels down that road.
thats awesome stay clean man keep it up proud of you
"We train young men to drop fire on people but their commanders won't allow them to write Fuck you on their airplanes because it's obscene"
A level of ironic madness a dark eldar could appreciate.
Have you actually thought this out from the perspective of how this would work in the real world? Okay, now people can write that thing on the airplane? Does that now mean people can write anything on those airplanes? Do we have no standards? Can people not be allowed to be offended or want to stop anything anymore? Welcome to level 2 understanding where you see that many lines are arbitrary. Now it's time to level up if your intellect allows and see that just because lines are arbitrary does not mean there should be no lines
@@torinmccabe if I'm flying or on thr receiving end of bombs and phosphorus I really don't care what obscenities minor or major are written on the planes.
From an entire outsider's perspective who feels he's the obvious good guy for watching it all unfold though twitter and complains about thr obscenity should either be slapped hard or thrust to the warzone so he can tell the pilot how he feels.
@@torinmccabe The problem is not with the censorship of sexaulity, but the inconsistency of censorship between sexuality and violence. If you go to the extreme that China does, for example, where video game blood are green, then at least I'd understand. But the way "western" media go about is completely illogical.
@@torinmccabe You being offended is a you problem and something you have to deal with. Nobody gives a damn.
@@justanoman6497 The problem is the inconsistency? Why should the censorship of sexuality and violence be the same when they are very different things? Disgust, fear and anger are all "bad" but we don't treat them the same. There is no inconsistency in treating different things differently
I'm reminded of a Slaaneshmas comic that I read around December of last year. The Prince of Pleasure was handing out cookies to human children. Indescribably delicious cookies. The kind that you would happily murder your parents or your whole hab-block just to have one... more... taste... Slaanesh is truly the god of addiction.
The idea of children being manipulated by Slaanesh is truly horrific.
@@inthefadeoh I thought it rather amusing to imagine the little rats ripping each other apart for the crumbs…
@@Prophetofthe8thLegion Found the Emperor's Children marine lol
@@Ultra04channel Emperor’s Children? Do I look like one of those decadent sycophants? I am a scion of the Night Haunter! A master of pain and terror, a lord of the night!
@@Prophetofthe8thLegion that sure is quite an *excessive* way to say you're into BDSM
Ah…so Tzeentch taught Luetin how to summon the whole Eldar fanbase
Tzeentch .. Tzeentch never changes ..
Just as planned.
What .... all seven of us?
I’M GETTING THE INQUISITOR!🤬
What's left of it anyway... B/
Slaanesh is just the most obvious obstacle to mainstream adoption. The real problem is that grimdark settings are almost by definition not "family friendly". This is also the problem I think the Cavill show has: any cleaned up mainstream adaptation would be dismissed as "not 40k" by the existing fanbase, while also being "just another setting" for people who are not already fans.
Yup and I think even cavil understands that
The boys arent exactly family friendl either
@@Storiaron Ya but Khorne worship has always been more accepted in media than Slaanesh worship. You can kill thousands of people in a movie but it won't go above 12+ as long as it is not "too graphic". But as soon as you show a single dick or vagina the movie will be rated 18+. Don't even get into the more depraved stuff that real Slaaneshis would be getting into like animals or children, which aren't allowed at any age range. Amazon is NOT getting anywhere near that.
In any case "The boys" is just mild violence compared to what 40k cults are up to.
Listening to this, I'm reminded of that scene where Veck is psychologically torturing a prisoner by refusing to finishing his story with this man and the man starts to panic because of this due to the fact that this story might explain why he's in this situation and Veck is titilated by the fact that this man will never know ending as he's tortured forevermore.
It's one of my favorite examples of the Dark Eldar emulating Slannesh in most vile and twisted ways that doesn't involve rape or sex or whatever. Veck is literally getting off to the fact that he knows and his victim doesn't. It's a wonderful example, imo.
One of the aspects of Slaanesh I feel is most under explored is how empathy can lead to heightened sensory experience. The more you can feel towards others, the more outward your experience is of the reactions and emotions of others. A psychopathic sadist, in a way, has more limits as to what they can feel and what they can think of to do with 'sensory experience'. To want others, is to want more beyond your singular experiential point. To be sadistically empathic is to wish for the feelings of others to be a certain way. And therefore it is an honest desire for harmony and empathy that can cause this decent into the warp as well, through Slaanesh.
You lament often in this video about how Slaanesh isn't a chaos god of war, but it is through this avenue that I think 40k can expand on it, and who better to do it through but the Tau with their 'synchronizing' helmets. The Tau are often seen as 'too positive' for 40k and while I think this makes them a much needed light to shine more shadows into the narrative, I think there is some potential here as they ARE the optimistic, empathetic, harmony loving empire. Contrast them with the hivemind like Tyranids and I think you could get a very interesting grimdark battle filled story with many metaphors and explorations of this chaos god.
Followers of slaanesh are far too selfish and downright narcissistic to be empathetic to others, because that would require them to actually think about the thoughts and feelings of others something most worshippers of slaanesh are not capable of.
I thought that the Tau were more or less immune to warp corruption since they don’t have psykers
OG noise marines were painted that way as lore said they were so far gone and had immersed themselves in chasing higher highs for all their senses, that only the most garish and jarring colours would even register to them. Source: Realm of Chaos book, Slaves to Darkness. Now that was some good slaaneshi lore. ♥️
Wait, so like ALL of the colors except for the most garish and jarring wouldn’t register in their chaos infused brains?
Would that mean they most likely see everything in an almost black and white saturation level?
@@SmokeySeasI think it’s more that anything less than absurd garish colors is so unappealing and bland compared to what their used to. That it no longer crosses their mind as even being worthy of consideration.
It has to be “new” it has to be unheard of because they’ve already experienced everything worth doing.
Basically us gamers that require more RGB things that don't need to be RGB
I just read Shadowsword by Guy Haley. A rebelling planet suffers a coup by a nobleman who cuts a deal with Chaos, and Noise Marines arrive to help them battle the Imperium (it doesn't say they're Noise Marines nor does it mention Slaanesh, I don't think, but you can infer it from the descriptions; garish colours, insane music preceding them in battle, battlefield draped in purple mist which smells like intense perfume).
At one point, the main character (who's an Imperial Guards baneblade commander) manages to surprise a Traitor Astartes and stab him through damage in his armor with a power sword. Rather than being angry or vengeful, the Noise Marine seems awestruck at having his "birth heart" destroyed, as he will never have another and it's a new experience, a new pain. He also implies it's the first time a mortal has wounded him. Rather than kill the soldier, he draws a dagger and offers to "explore" such new pains and experiences together, beginning to torture him, before the Black Templars arrive in the nick of time. I remember thinking "Okay, so extremes. They're all about extremes. Extreme noise, extreme sensation - pleasure, pain, whatever. F*ckin' hell, mate."
Slaanesh and its minions are such an interesting concept for villains, compelled and driven by lust for extremes and excess. I also like how the book portrays the Imperial Guards being shocked that near-mythical Chaos Marines actually exist when they learn of their presence, and how afraid it makes them.
@@Turd_Rocket That sounds like a standard Slaaneshi marine tbh, people underestimate just how messed up they actually are. Noise marines are on a whole new level. >XD
As an alcoholic (not using), Slaanesh freaks me out far more than any other Chaos God. The fall of Fulgrim is a sad tale that parallels the fates of many I've known, minus the Demon Prince stuff. Excess is extremely tempting for some in a lethal amount of desire.
I'd argue that while addicts don't become LITERAL man-demon empowered by chaos, one could argue addiction certainly can make you a 'monster' in the sense your personality and relationships around you become so twisted and toxic you may as well become an all consuming creature of darkness.
I've always hated how alcoholics anonymous forces you to label yourself an alcoholic for the rest of your days. You are more than an addiction, don't saddle your self esteem with that stigma. You can beat it and move on with your life, thats what I did. And you don't necessarily need to subscribe to religion to overcome it, you can draw the strength you need from within, or your family and friends.
I havent been able to look at booze without getting sick for the past 10 years, its not always a constant battle after you quit
@@JustadonkeyI’ve never understood it either, but I think there may be a difference between people who just drank a lot for awhile and actual “addicts”. I had a headache for a few days, but I’ve seen some of these guys fall on the ground shaking and puking when they stopped drinking. I’ve also not ever had an issue with “temptation”. Gotta be some difference in there.
Ugh, the terrifying thought of chaos creeping in the life of addicts is genuinely scary to anyone who's struggled with addiction. As a former invisible bars inmate myself, the idea of the immaterium creeping in with every hit or sip that's a goddamn NIGHTMARE! It's hard enough to deal with, without unreality itself maliciously driving you deeper into the spirals.
12 years no alcohol free. Slaanesh rode on my shoulder raw back in the day with 420 an da bottle lol.
I hope not. I find Slaanesh the most interesting of Chaos despite their infancy. I'm also very biased as I love the Emperor's Children and Fulgrim.
me too, but I also love the word bearers as well. Lorgar has such an interesting and genuine personality
Me too. More specifically the Noise Marines - Chaos Marines first in my opinion.
@@Aberinkula9 Same about that Chaos Marines bit. For the imperium I find the Tech Priests and Custodes more interesting than there space marines.
Chaos has more risks for the individual. Not just death but too many chaotic gifts, God gets bored and eats ya, backstabbing or backstabbed yourself.
Yet also Chaos has the capacity to make you immortal and have whole warbands follow you. You don't even need to be a space marine like Papa Luetin said. Chaos gives to all!
The imperium just already admits your fodder in a faithful sense just to some husk on a throne that wasn't even his originally.
Yeah I'm normally Chaos Undivided but if I was to go monotheist with it I find Slaanesh the most interesting. How it can feed off the other gods because anything taken to excess strengthens them. It has the potential to be the most powerful and insidious
I prefer Tzeentch (Chirp Chirp), but losing Slaanesh would be an immense blow to the franchise. Slaanesh alone provides 80% of a very specifc form of content inspiration to the fanbase.
Ever seen Khorne -specific content-? Its not good.
I absolutely love the Luetin videos that go go from WH40k lore (past and present references) -> modern day issues and shenanigans -> pop culture references -> philosophical theorising -> mentioning of other WH40k youtuber (mostly Bricky ❤😂) and then circiling back to the future of the WH40k lore and culture. Please keep making these fantastic videos no matter how long they take and how long they become in the end.
PS: I still heard Dark Origins Part 5 mentioned in the video 😆My absolute favourite series on the channel and looking forward to the day when Part 5 is released ☺
Most of us could easily fall to Slaanesh. Everyone thinks they'd be Tzeentch or Khorne, but Slaanesh would claim most of us. Most disturbing, interesting and grimdark chaos "god".
Fuck that "Papa Nergil" for the win. Ya he's uglie and will turn you uglie but at least he cares about you.
Yeah definitely
NO U
THE EMPEROR PROTECTS!
I see your point. However, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
My favourite thing to say in casual convo on slaanesh to rebut the "sex drugs and rock n roll god" is pointing out that cannibalism falls entirely under slaanesh. Its not explicitly violent and theres no war in it, so its not khorne. It doesnt pertain to seeking knowledge or change, so its not tzeentch. Its not stagnation or entropy, so its not nurgle. Only slaanesh could there be cannibalism for the sake of cannibalism.
Cannibalism can spread disease, and it does seem to fit the Nurgle theme of death of some being used to the advantage of those who survive
Cannibalism probably falls under Malice.
"Its not explicitly violent and theres no war in it, so its not khorne. It doesnt pertain to seeking knowledge or change, so its not tzeentch."
Unless you are a Space Marine. Or maybe a Kroot. 🙃
It would probably fall under Malice.
I go further than that. Cannibalism here goes to the desire for new pleasures, and the pleasure of eating and drinking would follow the same bounds.
Nor, it should be noted, is sexual desire in any way limited. Not by consent, and not by majority status. You can probably infer where cultists end up going.
There is an episode of Stargate that has the SG-1 gang get interfaced with an AI that enhances their bodies to the point where they start to basically let all their intrusive thoughts win. Starts with them enjoying their lunch and ends with them trying to shock themselves with defibrillator. The AI craves new experiences and also gives them the ability to survive some of these experiences. Most of the people I know have seen this show and this episode so I just tell them Urgo is how Slaanesh starts, Hellraser is how it goes, and Lovecraft is how it scales up.
Hellraiser is a good film reference for Slaanesh
OMG that's exact same thing happened to me when I smoked meth.
@@inthefade I thought so too. The cenobites being Slaaneshi demons or proto-demons. Like Pinhead says, "Explorers, in the further regions of experience. Demons to some, angels to others."
None of those things are bad things to me tho
TLDW: WH40k is a big brand, big brands stay away from controversial subject matter, therefore Slaanesh is too risky to truly explore.
My question always is, why even have it in the first place? Literally everything in the entire brand is a risk. So much so that describing even the most tame stuff in the 40K setting is innately controversial, there's absolutely no way around it without fundamentally changing the whole brand from the ground up. But I wouldn't put it past GW to Endtimes 40K soon, just like they did with Fantasy. But knowing what came out of it, it's going to be ten times worse than the first train wreck.
@@ianmaluk1 because the normies cant handle a little bit of booba, d1ck and puzzy without throwing a tantrum because "too taboo" or "lewd". Because yes slaanesh is clearly only about sex and the moment you start writing about a god of excess and pleasure in a grimdark setting it turns a novel into 100% porn.
Because the ork having a human breeding farm with lobotomized people for food is ok but slaanesh getting frisky is illegal.
I gotta say its funny to watch from the sidelines as someone who is not afraid to talk nsfw, because *its a natural part of existence*
True, but who doesn't want an hour plus from Leutin telling us that in lore-ful detail? That's why I'm here :D
@@ianmaluk1 Slaanesh is a hold over from when GW was a smaller company, with a better grip on the identity of its properties, and wasn't so fixed on maximizing shareholder value.
I've been saying it for a while now, but I genuinely believe 40k is headed towards an "End Times" like event that will radically reshape it's framework. One of the primary reasons I think this is because, like with Fantasy before it, GW has stopped treating 40k as a setting and started treating it like a narrative. Instead of focusing on independent, smaller scale stories couched in the setting, GW has been focused on massive galaxy altering stories that fundamentally shift, remove, or replace the framework of the broader setting - i.e. Primaris Marines, Primarchs coming back, splitting the galaxy in two, the Emperor straight up being a god that can tangibly hurt other gods, etc etc.
I don't know if GW will straight up hard delete 40k like they did with Fantasy when rolling out AoS, but I can almost guarantee that 40k in a decade will be radically different than it was 5-10 years ago.
@maltheri9833 40K did just that for 30 years and did just fine. It was a backdrop setting for your plastic army men to fight someone else's plastic army men. Star Wars was a narrative story first, everything else came later. That is not the case with Warhammer.
the greatest trick Slannesh ever pulled was convincing the Warhammer universe he had been destroyed
As a sisters collector, (1st army almost at 1k points) i think slaanesh is important to my faction as the only one of the chaos gods a sister has fallen to, i think its one of the more interesting C gods
*cough* Khorne *cough* twice! *cough*
@@TheSimpleMan454 good man, now report to the inquisitor for possession of heretical knowledge
I'll be listening to this from start to finish, but I can pick up where this is going; Slaanesh is my favorite chaos god, not because of the "uwu sexytime" that people have attached to them, but because their "gift" and how they work is terrifying. Excess in things that give you pleasure. It can be anything. Making money? Get a job. Not enough. Build a company. Not enough. Build multiple companies. Not enough. Rob someone. Not enough. Start *redacted* people to take their money. Not enough. More more more. Even if the whole world has to go down, you still want MORE. Characters are pushed to further and further extremes to feel a better pleasure about the things they enjoy or are obsessed about, and they'll go to any ends in order to get it so it's just an eternal snowball speeding downhill, picking up all of the worst and most gruesome of things in order to get there, and if they have to destroy themselves to get that pleasure they'll happily do it because they're so insanely obsessed with that feeling.
It can start as small and insignificant and maybe even feel and seem happy....but before you know it you're driven into performing the most gut wrenching, heinous, acts in order to chase a deeper pleasure. Excess in the most extremes. Excess to the point of being truly terrifying. Of COURSE it will be hard to stay with that and show it and tell stories about it with a wide audience who doesn't understand or refuses to accept that this is fiction....but horrific evil in stories is what makes "bad guys" good and multi-dimensional instead of flat and boring. I wish people, creators, etc. would stop losing sight of that.
and this is overall my point. We never get any illustrations of the true potential horror of Slaanesh, that someone would drive themselves to a truly insane scale of excess to devote themselves to Slaanesh - but its never that - its never as creative or interesting - its always, Emperors Children polishing their armour and feeling tingly all over.
I love Slaanesh as well! Indolence is my favorite part. Just imagine that...in a galaxy where everything is awful the worst thing you can do is rest.
@@Luetin09 Yeah, you brought up a good point in the video, which is that the actions of the Slaaneshi demons and traitor legions should, in theory, make the Drukhari look tame. And with how horrifying something like the haemonculi already are, there's no way GW is every going to risk depicting -- or likely even describing -- something so horrific. There wouldn't be enough trigger warnings in the world.
Yeah, totally agree. Slaanesh has an incredible potential for incredibly horrific consequences of mortal desires, but almost no one even tries to examine those subjects.
Tzeench may not be the most popular chaos power as part of storytelling, and is also far from reaching his true potential, but at least not to that extent. Thankfully, quite a few writers attempt to dig into his complexity. Hope that both of them will shine more in the grim future)
Edit: grammar mistakes
@@Luetin09 I thought that the depiction of Fulgrim's descent, as well as the artist on his ship, I forget her name, was pretty effective; his growing feeling that nothing was ever good enough, that the slightest perceived flaw in anything was intolerable, that his technically flawless sculpture was in fact flawed because it lacked soul, the horrifying reality of what perfectionism *really* means when you let its hooks dig into you, so deeply that they pierce your heart, AND WILL NEVER LET YOU GO: You will never be contented, you will never be comfortable in your own skin, you will NEVER have the one thing that you crave: ENOUGH. I love what you're saying here, though: That horror needs to be illustrated at the mundane level, too, because it is so incredibly pervasive, and a major, MAJOR contributor to the misery that we experience in our own world and lives, at all levels, from the most power-mad CEO or megalomaniac, to the most innocuous unhappy child.
People forget that Slaanesh's domain is six of the seven deadly sins. They forget he encompasses desire in so many aspects. He is subtlety, the slow fall. Yet people just see the character as silly daemon god big booby waifu.
Ayup, and frankly I want more exploration of that. More lore of people chasing the non-BDSM aspects, and frankly more models showcasing their followers chasing those alternatives. We need more Noise Marine like models, where it's about something else.
But she can be silly daemon god big booby waifu if you want. As long as you give her your soul.
yes but the most potent and east forms of emotion is RAGE and PLEASURE. hence the Sadistic bdsm warriors. the problem is that 10% of the Shares of GW are owned by Idealog companies who try to force these stupid changes which ultimately destroy the franchise. which is why i look at companies that are public as being the least pro consumer there is.
@si2foo You can still depict things like Greed, Envy, Sloth, Pride, Gluttony, it doesn't have to just be Lust. Showing a single aspect make him little different from Khorne. Lust alone is boring.
Boobs are a must. Any aspects of life which don't revolve around boobs make me lose interest immediately.
There's a bunch of elections coming up, with supposedly generational consequences. But nothing about boobs. Not interested.
Slannesh tracks with its "real life" equivalent Dionysus pretty well. On the surface, Dionysus is the "wine and party" god, but that is only a trap to ensnare mortals. Dionysus is the god of addiction and the moral degradation of the self. Hedonism is originally the fringe benefit, but becomes the whole focus of a person's life, at the expense of yourself and others. Dionysus is the personification of alcoholism and self degradation, and the decay that comes with all of that. Dionysus was forced into the Greek pantheon by pleasure cults that sprang up around the introduction of wine.
His followers would even be depicted falling into madness and tearing apart non-cultists in their midst in some stories
I think he was also a god of madness. In his myths, he, more than once drives people absolutely crazy before turning them into dolphins.
@@blakewalker94 And his retinue of women are the maenads! Literally "the crazed/raving ones"
Presenting Dyonisus as a hedonistic god of excess and addiction was actually political propaganda, the Dyonisian cult was actually an anti-authoritarian humanist feminist philosophy that was not fundamentaly hedonistic, but instead employed hedonism as a political tool.
Ironically this group did function much like a Slaanesh cult, which led to the reputation. They would invite the sons of important men to orgiastic parties and slowly indoctrinate then with anti-war anti-patriarchal ideology, causing them to go on to subvert Greek imperialism and patriarchal systems of land ownership.
Idunno if I'd quite say something THAT extreme since it paints dionysus as an explicitly malicious force. Though you're not entirely wrong.
He was originally a Chthonic god with some degree of death, rebirth, and Madness under his control alongside his attachment to Wine.
One of the best examples of an interpretation of Slaanesh's influences comes from a comic bud I watched. It's cutesy appearance belies the true horror about to unfold after the stories end.
Slaanesh gathers children in poverty, giving them food and toys, telling them "Merry Slaaneshmas" and encouraging them to enjoy. But as the story goes on we see the "toys" as actual weapons and the food as drugged. Then Slaanesh themselves revealing the truth that what comes after is the real celebration. One can only imagine the chaos as children bring ruin to the world around them, incapable of understanding anything beyond the happiness and merriment their experiencing. A mind incapable of understanding anything else.
And I believe that's where Slaanesh's true strength and difficulty to interpret: the complete disconnect.
Cause in an existence where everything is constant war and suffering it's all too easy to give up and focus on indulging. Cause when you have nothing else it's hard not to make that your only reason for being.
As a recovering addict I can say there is pain in wanting so without ever getting enough, exstacy in glimpses and bits that are short moments of relief in the torment you feel.
Don't hate the addict, they already do that enough by themselves..
>people talking about how slaanesh is too NSFW
>Nurgle showing constent grotesque imagery of maggots, gore, and vomit inducing infections
I think modern media has far more hormy demons than anything even resembling something nurgle would show. Sure, weve seen zombies but, nurgle would make modern zombies grimace because hes so much more than walking dead people.
Amazon seems more accepting of gore than nudity/sexuality that isn't male focused given how The Boys adaptation has been going.
Some people (eg way, way too many) are way more upset by the biological realities of their own bodies and their sexual urges than they are diseased entities. That isn't meant to come off as reductive, but I mean every word I say.
Yeah, it is baffling how you can't slip a little more than usual of a boob but a video of people drinking liquid smoke and cutting to them suddenly violently vomiting without any censorship is apparently ok. I am speaking from experience.
Amazon and the boys? Sexual degeneracy and drug abuse is a cornerstone of left wing people in the west. Amazon is representative of relatively average people
the boys presents an interesting case, because imo it has presented tons of male nudity/sexuality implicitly combined with gore/violence. And actually shockingly little female nudity and sexuality by comparison (at least directly shown vs implied). This has carried over to Gen V as well. Part of me always wonders if this out of fear or as a reaction to the long tradition of hyper-sexualizing women in these types of media, or of the show is actually trying to say something with it.
New Luetin video as soon as I sit down to start making new terrain?
Emperor Protects 🫡
My wife and i often refer to "feeding slaanesh" when were getting hung up trying to make something perfect
Your wife and I call it something else
@@rowdyzack5914 feeding Nurgle?
@@tomtommerson6320well they do have get antibiotics when they are done
@@rowdyzack5914 that escalated quickly
@@sblower9410 she always does
You could do a grinch style story involving a slaanesh aligned chaos warband who are bored of the usual chaos stuff and in seeking a new experience decide to that it would be fun to save an imperial.
So you’ve got these garish disfigured chaos space marines role playing as noble loyalists even shouting out loyalist one liners.
at the end after being heralded as the emperors angels and model space marines their reminded of the day they were granted the emperors Aquila and the pride they felt being called the emperor’s children.
The only thing that ever came close to that day was the look on their former allies and brothers faces during the drop site massacre.
So feeling nostalgic and hoping to recapture that look of terror and disbelief they decide to torch the planet they saved.
It’s similar to the grinch because you have these ugly ass creature going around being nice and saving the day and the citizens learning to not judge based on appearances
Only for the chaos marines to decide to go back to being evil.
I had a similar problem when trying to make Slaanesh chaos knights, Khorne is easy, nurgle equally so. But I essentially concluded that Slaanesh was (and this is very much head cannon)
- A twisted sense of "Regality" appearing as the most beautiful and extreme thing in the room, being the most eye catching
- An addiction to chasing the dragon, one upping yourself each time
- To increase the overall amount of extreme experience in the galaxy
- "Idol worship" seeing a sense of righteousness in pushing the limits of ability or understanding in a particular obsession (lucious in sword mastery, fabius bile in weird experiements)
Some other great examples are the description of human beings first experiencing the laer temple for the first time in Fulgrim
The way people describe being touched by Witchers in the witcher book series, perfect way of incorporating sensation into the lore without pissing off James Workshop in a way that would fit Slaanesh
I got here so fast slanesh hasn't spawned in yet
Well Slanesh isn’t a fan of anyone coming too fast
@@pugcopter thats crazy
That's because she's the host and likes to watch.
I mean yeah, Slaanesh isn't going to be born for another 28,000 years...
@@pugcoptervery nice 👏🏽😂
In the book "Never Let You Go", there's a scene where the young-teenage protagonist is singing whilst holding a pillow and dreaming that it's a baby of her own. A "teacher" walks in and is frozen in pure horror - not for invading this private moment, but because she knows there-and-then that the humanity of this moment will be stripped from her as the society has already planned to take her organs. She will never know her own children, she will never have what many might even call a "mundane" future to look forwards to, she is but a thing. Luetin is right - you can express profound emotion even in the most trivial of scenes.
*Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro
There's nothing wrong with Slasnesh in the 40k lore. The problem is our own world.
What do you mean by this?
@@callusklaus2413 This point is addressed in the video. In the USA violence is glorified and sex is vilified.
@@callusklaus2413 It's not quite what mordante01 is mentioning. It's more about the fact that there are problems that are difficult or hard to answer that fall under what Slaanesh represents. Making others desire something and then changing the nature of it so it never is sated, or cultivating fear for purpose of selfish profit. There is the demonization of sexual desire but that isn't anywhere close to the first two. So you could say slaanesh is also the great evil of 'anti-consumer practices'.
Compare that to korne that is just strait up hate murder machine or something like nurgle that is just pestilence and plague.
@@Yurikan Thanks for explaining!
@@mordante01 That is the most basest and dumbest stereotypical generalization of the US when it comes to Slaanesh. 40k was CREATED in the USA.
It's not that at all.
It's what Slaanesh can represent and what is...abhorrent when it comes to what type of person that comes into the worship of Slaanesh.
Every serial killer.
Every PDF file.
Every r*pist.
Every drug dealer.
BDSM. Slavery of all kinds. Gluttony.
Lust doesn't have to be sexual. You can lust for food.and cars.
It's the HORRIFIC end result that is hard to stomach. And unfortuanately, that involves more...s*xual exploitation of others.
Almost all criminal desires are rooted in 2 things---sex and anger.
THAT is hard to sell.
Really enjoy the "Uncomfortable Problem" in his section. Great dialogue about 'spicy' content and the almost backwards hidden crusade against it. Well done Luetin.
Nearly 2k views within 10mins - Congratulations Luetin,
it fills my heart with joy when i see your fully deserved success!
Just basically stay that great guy, that's what and who we love!
"The wider audience": the bane of franchises.
Just gonna say, their revenue has skyrocketed the last two years, so......if you want them to be upset about their pivot....... probably not happening.
4 years my bad.
@@AggressiveLemurquantity is never better than quality
@@Kingedwardiii2003no one said it was?
You mean modern audiences
Modern audiences means a small minority of people that will never buy your product
she who thirsts has seized the black library.
the prince of pleasure has taken the golden throne.
they will swallow it all.
"The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing the World He Didn’t Exist"
Some drunk chick has subjugated an African-American library?
Prince of Wales got a golden toilet?
Who's _they_ tho?
Your mom will swallow it all hehehe.
@@Gogglesofkrome The greatest trick your mom ever pulled was the reverse cowgirl hehehe.
That's pretty sad. It isn't much of a trick
The problem with depicting She who thirst in current time is that it will it WAY too close to home to people who will go thru a mental breakdown when they realise they are the villains.
Yup
Hedonism cant be diabolical
Especially as their model line suggested the presence of the alphabet soup members before the 90's....
This is all pretty cringe my brothers.
The original comment is implying something, but it's unclear. Are they suggesting LGBTQ people resemble slaaneshi daemons or vice versa?
I could see why someone who had a particular bias might see it that way, but I think an individuals preferences are irrelevant. You could just as easily mutate an ovipositor and transcend human sexuality entirely..
I feel like someone who is worried about LGBTQ people are being played in a game by rich people who spread propaganda to demonize leftist voters who might vote against their interests, so minorities, anti-war protestors, environmentalists, gay people etc etc. Anyone who votes left.
In reality being on that side of the culture war makes you a pawn in an ugly game of deception, like an unwitting pawn of tzeentch. Maybe it's you who are the villians, but not even the powerful ones.
Like who?
Are we the baddies?
53:40 Explicit extreme violence being okay but sex/nudity being not okay is NOT a global human phenomenon. It's very much an American (Anglo-saxon?) obsession, as one is put to the extreme, while the other is censored into oblivion. Splatter and body gore in one horror movie scene and then afraid to show a single bare nipple in the next never fails to make me chuckle.
Yup anime is a primary example of this stuff in japan is usually uncensored until gets to America (4kids) like at one point they had the white paint which replaced blood at one point i bet you could imagine why that didn’t last long
It is no more unusual than the inverse. Aside from which, any accurate portrayal of Slaanesh would require disregarding consent as a concept and age of majority. Are you asking for those concepts to be displayed?
This is the danger of moral relativism, by the way.
Commenting on the reasoning for the obsession with sex over violence:
Violence always seems far off and fantastical from the perspective of the average person historically. It doesn't really affect you until its already on top of you and it kills you.
Sex surrounds us at all times. It is simply the more common concern/anxiety to have across all times and places.
On a separate note, places like Japan, China, etc. have very strict censorship laws regarding nudity, some of which are even constitutionally enshrined.
This is, in fact, a global phenomenon. People have always been like this
@@AYAKXSHI Japan also censors anything overly excplicit. Even JAV lol
Robocop was a R rated kids movie I saw at 10yrs old. The 80s and 90s action movies were hyper violent but don't show a nipple!
Vox in the Void has a great story about Kharn and the world eaters attacking a Slaanesh daemon world, definitely recommend it if you want a more nuanced portrayal
Such a good suggestion!
Also "All the Gods are Dead" which is a 3 part series about a Slaanesh cult taking over a world that's amazing
What's the story called?
@@Ransetsu The Wrath of Khârn.
After the Emperor's Children dropped the ball on Terra and just grabbed as many slaves as possible and took off, the other traitors have hated them.
Thank you for explaining my exact thoughts on Slaanesh in far better constructed detail than I ever could. I would love a novel detailing the darkest reaches of who I consider the most terrifying entity in all of 40k
I am erotica writer, I could do it, but Games Workshop would shoot me before hiring me XD
@@victorrosenheart8036 Frankly the darkest reaches of Slaanesh have nothing to do with erotica. Sex is the easy reach, not the darkest.
It's more like breeding in OCD into whole populations as a primary trait. Generational trauma. Corruption of basic biological functions and drives.
Frankly, having a Slaanesh corrupted world be chaste because all of their focus is on something else, overriding the drive to breed, is much more disturbing.
@@leadpaintchips9461 That’s the fun With Slaanesh! Endlessly possibilities! Sex is one root, and it would work. But, we could do your idea! Everyone just spending the whole day drinking or something.
Hey hey people, Tzeentch here
I heard that.
Khorne - "not interested Tezench,, busy watching slanesh wrapping a mortal around a stripper pole. (Not in a sexy way)
Ah fellow Tzeentach enjoyer I see 👀 what a man of culture
"do you, thirst for knowledge? do you, want magic powers? and do you, want to see the 4D fractal nature of spacetime? joining me will grant you all of this and more. ignore the tentacles"
Thank you for the vid. I'm new to warhammer and Slaanesh was always the one to make me the most uncomfortable, but I could never put my finger on why. Now I understand, of all the chaos god, the one asking "but is it a crime wanting to be happy ?" Hit the hardest. Of course it's a false promise, but it's so innocent, enticing, in the mist of warhammer violence, or even mondain life... Slaanesh is terrifying because he is the only one who's "gifts" Are real for us normal humans. We will never be immortal and indifferent to illnesses, know all and change things at will, or even kill people who pisses us off without consequences or guilt. But it's easy to want money, to want to erase the sadness, to drink "a little", to sleep instead of going to an awfull job...
Surprised you didn't mention the HH novel Fulgrim. I realise it's mostly concerned with astartes, but a large chunk of the story is given over to the remembrancers descent into depravity.
UA-cam- Luetin09 has a new vi...
Me - I AM WATCHING IT RIGHT NOW
@@Prof.Pwnalot are you just incapable of anything mildly fun/joking?
Due to the nature of the warp, I was watching it before it came out
It is a shame that a lot of franchise dilute into safer material in order to chase the casual market profit.
It seems like a lot of these companies don’t believe that there’s an audience smart enough to make profit off of?
Maybe it’s just based on laziness on the companies, part, like a drawing with very little detail and shading but still can be recognizable.
Either way it makes me personally sad in the grand scheme of things.
It's not about chasing a casual market, but rather controlling the narrative. There is a reason that this is a multi-institutional, industry-spanning, cross-cultural sort of effort that only seems to exist exclusively in publicly traded media. The reason they are banning fan content is explicitly because they want to possibly induce dramatic change in how warhammer is seen and portrayed. EG Genderbending entire factions, Slaanesh being removed or made "good", or other similar bizarre changes.
Never underestimate the power of "won't somebody think of the children?" types.
@Gogglesofkrome Seems less like Slanessh is being "made good" and more like they're being slowly erased. The shareholders obviously wish to remove She Who Thirsts, but they can't or the fans who enjoy the grim-dark would get angry. But they also don't have enough mass market appeal to make up for the mass exodus that would inevitably occur, so they're stuck.
It's sad, really. I don't want some corpos robbing the setting of one of the most interesting factions.
@@Ultra04channel I didn't think they actually were trying to turn slaanesh good, I was just trying to give example of the fact that it looks like they really want to change the quality for the worse
@@Ultra04channel capitalism ruins everything. It's basic principle is dehumanising everything and turning it into materialistic profits.
Scourge of the world.
I firmly believe that Slaanesh won't be sidelined. They had the perfect opportunity to start the process with It being sent to horny jail in AoS, but signs are pointing towards It escaping.
I know they're technically separate settings, but I believe GW would use AoS to test the waters if they planned for this sort of change.
Also, I can see plenty of ways to keep the horror of Slaaneshi worship without being distasteful, even if it's just as simple as keeping the worst off-screen and letting imagination do the rest (a pretty classic horror technique).
I think going full on Hellraiser would be a better idea. After all, this is the series that brought us the daemonculaba.
@@Ultra04channel And every discussion around that story is either "Look how screwed up the setting is! Honest!" or "That book is just stupid, even GW doesn't want anything to do with it and the Black Library has a pretty low bar."
@@leadpaintchips9461 i think the problem with the daemonculaba is the meme’s and the fact people say the iron warriors made it even tho it was created by a subsect of the dark mechanicum that specializes in bio technology
I agree except for the fact that the horror being imagine being a consistent tool. Not you, but I feel like many new age puritians are fine with the gore of khorne or the body horror od Tzeetch but want to hide from slannesh. It's laughable imo
@leadpaintchips9461 Yes, BUT, counterpoint...
Imagine how many sales of that book they've made entirely because of people's morbid curiosity as to what that thing is. Besides, people still talk about it, extremely frequently. So technically, GW should have an incentive to make 40K horror occasionally.
This is one of your best videos, Luetin. Your remarks are well thought out, thought provoking, and entertaining. Thank you for digging into these facets of 40k.
I love that you used Idiot of the East's Slaanesh drawing, his comics are hilarious and I do love that rendition of her.
You know... Having read or listened to I dunno, 300 novels, short stories, audio dramas etc... I don't remember a single sex scene in 40k that was anywhere near as explicit as the rather tame sex scenes in the Dune books... GW/BL are clearly terrified of getting the Bad Sex award...
-Still waiting for nurgle x Tzeentch romance novel. GW you can’t hide from me you filthy cowards-
@@Ech_The_Sentiant Hahaha... _*spontaneous combustion just as planned*_.
That, or it has something to do with the authors... x)
Tbf I'm cool with just hearing secondhand about the emperor's children r*ping a planet to death, I don't need a descriptive assessment of it lol. There is a line between edgy and cringe, and I get why they don't want to go past it.
@@cabnbeeschurgr 100% There’s a thin line between hilariously edgy and just plain awful. Warhammer tends to toe the line very well imo. When it comes to rape, I always prefer it when they don’t take it further than second hand account or brief mention if they even include it at all.
This is why I rate you above all the other 40k creators. Your explorations and expansions on how things are perceived always gives me a better perspective with which to view subjects and narratives within the setting. Your content always manages to expand my view in new ways that I deeply appreciate.
Next up: will the Dark Eldar get sanitized?
next: the warhammer for kids book series is the new direction of warhammer writ large
@@georgeaird4637 as a Deldar fan...I'm so goddamned sad right now on how true this is lmao.
but hey a recent book featured Dark Eldar (Da Big Dakka, also features Orks!), and they feature very prominently in Rogue Trader (the CRPG video game by Owlcat). There's some bits of fun for us still...Also a new Lelith Hesperax book that's set post Vect dying and getting resurrected, hell yea.
when collab with paw patrol then?
Psychological horror is often discounted as unrealistic because people believe that they would never get that low. Often times even stating more fantastic ideas of being prepared or fighting back during extreme events. Its this unwillingness to visit vulnerable parts in ones self that leads to the sale, popularity, and success of more generic sorts of slasher horror. It's a shame because theres deeper world building topics that are just avoided due to the lack of revenue theyd generate.
For literally all the reasons you suggested, I've like speculated that Games Workshop is looking for a way to kill off Slaanesh and replace them with another chaos god (i.e. Vashtorr). Maybe leave trace amounts of influence, but Slaanesh is already one of the least thematically represented gods anyway exactly because of how difficult it would be in a way that wouldn't just create needless controversy, even if you don't go the lewdapocalypse route. A lot of people also suspect some kind of endtimes events like in fantasy warhammer that transitions the universe into a different state and many thought the splitting of the imperium would be that, but hey maybe it will be, with a literal light vs dark imperium now eternally fighting each other. One backed by an empowered Emperor and his reawoken/returned primarchs and the others empowered by Bile's new humans, the dark mechanicus, and Vashtorr's addition to the chaos Pantheon to replace Slaanesh.
This would also allow the eldar to have a second wind and refresh as a faction too as some of their former power returns, maybe do something with infinity circuit souls being reborn into like super eldar of some kind or something.
The Fourth Kind really messed me up. Hit sorta close to home as at the time I would often have weird sleep disturbances that I later learned was seizure activity. The idea of the Filthy Xenos being right up there with the Primordial Annhilator as biggest enemies of mankind is, I think, Is right on the money. The movie Fire in the Sky gives me the creeps as well. The scene when he wakes up on an alien ship, in a completely incomprehensible setting and situation (zero g) is not what I would call a fun experience. I always think of the pair of eye glssses floating there, sans owner…that always gets me.
In a galaxy filled with death & war...heaven forbid there be a sexy crab daemon god rizzing everyone up!
Sex bad, murder and xenophobia good. Apparrently.
Or swearing. Heaven forbid anyone screams F as their insides get boiled by alien technology.
But remember, Daemonculaba are A-okay.
Tyranid munition eats you from the inside out? Average tuesday.
There might be a nipple somewhere?
BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND AND MAKE IT LAME!
@@rickkcir2151And Death Spectres, apparently.
Earliest I've been here for a video. As always, thank you for the excellent lore videos and for the Luetin Sleep Club 👏
I think because Slaanesh is a part of us we're afraid to look into, what we might find. Mindless violence? Just blame Khorne... Decay and death? Again, blame Nurgle... But the pleasure in other's suffering and god knows all the rest? That already hits a little close to home. We can see this in a society that expects you wanting more, finding the next thing to fill an empty void, making you feel good, excess etc etc.
God only knows what lurks in the minds of people who have done everything and want the next thing, and that's without the imaginary fuel from a setting such as 40k.
Well Slanessh is so much more terrifying and also easier to depict actually. It is excess. Like a planetary gov who addicted of tobac wants to get even better product, or a priest being too much devoted to the Emps leading a Slaneshi corruption, or a kasarkin captain being too pridefull of doing their duties, or a manifactorum worker having way to enjoyment producing ammo for the guard. It can be the most subtle or the most obvious things. But when depicting it they go all for s.x sells and then act like they are the victims of public media. Yes it is also a part of it, no it doesnt needs to be that much s.x gore.
Actually almost everything in Imperium lies in the domain of Slanesh and Tzeench, like Inqusition can/(head canon) is a breeding ground of Slanesh and Tzeench corruption.Thats perhaps why we dont get to see legendary Inqusitors kept alive with gene therapies and etc.
If they depict Slaneesh and its corruption as what it is and what it can be then there wouldnt be any reason for GW so stay away from Slanesh content.
I wouldn't mind the Ynnari's big plan succeeding but only half-way: the Eldar souls are freed, but Slaanesh isn't killed or sealed away. I'd like there to be more focus on Slaanesh, more depth, but I will always have Eldar, and just Xenos in general, ahead of everything else in terms of enjoyment and what I want to see more of. My knife ears need a win for once
Same. I was thinking about this, too. The Aeldari desperately need a win already.
I need an honest answer. Is there really so few Eldar fans in the 40k community? If so, then yeah, might explain why GW isn't doing anything with them. ;/
@@Archon3960 that's GW own fault, you can't just push for ten thousand billions of imperium content and just give each xenos faction a small footnote of lore/minis in wich, especially the case of the eldar, they are always the losing side of the conclict to a painful point, and this comes from a space elf fan
Yeah, I want my Eldar to be free from the curse of Slaanesh. I say get rid of Slaanesh entirely. Just replace him or whatever with someone else. How about just make one good Chaos god?
I think there is real potential for an organic decline of Slaanesh. She is the goddess of excess and I think hedonism is a very closely linked concept to excess. As we all know, hedonism is not productive, it sacrifices the future for the present and that makes it a notable flaw. Slaanesh might have that flaw built into her by design, somewhat akin to a drug addict that is still functional, yet slowly but surely sees her life derailing. Slaanesh's very essence just seems to be somewhat opposed to focused, ambitious, productive behaviour. It could very well be that she's hedonistically living on borrowed time, from past achievements, peaking at the fall of the eldar, but slowly declining from there. Meanwhile the other gods are as steady and focused as ever, leading to them increasingly outcompeting her in then great game. Maybe there is a breaking point and it's closer than we think. With Slaanesh being as relatively young as she is, her longevity certainly isn't as sure as that of the other gods anyway. It could very well be that her existance, on a cosmic scale, is just a slight fizzle.
"The pursuit of happiness", that is, fighting to have a life with meaning that fulfills you, a maxim touted already by Thomas Jefferson, is an hedonistic concept (Epicurean)...I don't think people understand hedonism too much...
I think it's important to note that Khorne is one such Chaos God who can only consume and consume until there is nothing left. He cares not how, but only that blood is shed and spilled in his name. Tzeentch wants eternal change, but that will become unsustainable too because he wants far too much change. Only Nurgle really seems to understand that there are cycles, ebbs and flows, and is fine with that. Decay creates room for growth, things that grow can decay.
Lunch break plans made! Looking forward to the lore!
Noise Marines are appealing for people outside the verse since to us they just appear to be heavy metal rockers or dubstep DJs who weaponize their music.
In universe, the sounds that Noise Marines make is more akin to blaring CrazyBus at a literal earth shattering volume while their breathing is a dial-up modem at that same volume.
In general, servants of Slaanesh are embody the hedonism of the hair metal era and all that entails, good and bad. The pursuit of pleasure to the point of crippling addiction to sensation, whether it be physical or emotional.
For anyone interested in some damn good slaanesh audio dramas I can't recommend A Vox in the Void enough. His videos focusing on a wayward noise marine are superb
I have always said Slaanesh is possibly the strongest Chaos God. The god of “EXCESS”, all things to excess. Not just torture and sexy time, but also the more esoteric ideas. The Khornite warrior that reveals not just in slaughter and blood, but his own ability for it. The Nurgle worshiper, feeling the pleasure of the plagues she spreads, or a sorcerer who basques in the complex scheming of his plots. Those acts of excess are what draws the attention of She Who Thirsts.
But over all yes. I do agree that Slaanesh is more or less the idea of how subtle corruption can start.
I like this interpretation. Even in the Total War trailers, you can see the Slanessh daemon immediately get interested when he sees a Khornate warrior tearing through his forces with ease. Not fear, not "Ah yes, a worthy opponent", it's intrigue. A bit of pleasure too.
But in the end, Chaos is all feeding each other more without even realizing it.
The excess of the other three feeds Slanessh, the wars waged by them feeds Khorne, the underhanded schemes to take over planets feeds Tzeentch, and the inevitable decay caused by every last destructive action feeds Nurgle.
"The flame that burns twice as bright, burns half as long." -- Lao Tzu
Imagine wanting to sideline this character in an age of hedonism and self pleasure the likes of which Caligula could only dream of. F'ing clown world.
The shareholders were looking in a mirror when they saw Slaanesh, and decided they didn’t want fantasy to reflect reality.
@@blam320 Hah!
Right!?!
On the contrary, that’s precisely why they must.
Modern society is infatuated with removing all limits, shattering all taboos. However, the pleasure is always temporary, and requires ever-greater excesses to relive. This ends in pain and horror. Just ask anyone bed-ridden from gluttony how happy and content they are, and they’ll tell you the only pleasure they have is from eating. That’s Chaos.
In other words, it would hit way too close to home for modern people. The soulless, empty existence of excess. Reminding people of the pain and loneliness in their escapism is not a good idea.
@@TheSpicyLeg That was my (not very concise) point as well, thanks for clarifying.
THE SADNESS by Rob Jabbaz (2021).
It's a taiwanese movie.
I think it pictures a good example of what a Slaneeshi psychic infection could be, similarly to the Khornate psychic infection in "Ark of Omens Angron". Maybe even the Fall of the Eldars on a small scale (Eldars minds would make it ten times worst...).
It's basically horrible and gore but mostly very disturbing, because beyond the fictionnal aspect it points out some questions about the human mind and its darkest/dirtiest parts : what if every societal rules and moral codes collapsed in an instant and Mr Everybody's brain/mind became uninhibited, super imaginative and obcessed with the pursuit of pleasure through cruelty?
Be aware it's not for eveyone, but this discussion really reminds me of this movie.
I agree that the Slaneeshi corruption should be a little more detailed in the lore, but up to a limit of course. It's understandable that GW/BL are very cautious about that, as an uncensored Slaneeshi lore wouldn't affect everyone in a positive way, even if it's fictionnal. Or they edit PEGI 18 books!
Anyway, thank you so much for these amazing contents you create. I've been following your channel since 2 years and I have to say it has enriched so much my journey into the 40k verse!!
Cheers
Have you considered this angle: Saturation?
Of all the chaos gods, our own world has drifted towards Slaanesh the most. Not just recently, but going back more than three millenia. I'm not saying you SHOULD, but just try a 3 day, 5 day, month long bender... or look at a practicing hedonist. The vast majority of people simply CAN'T reach or maintain the level of indulgence and depravity demanded by even low level worshipers of Slaanesh. Those that can actually hate themselves and don't know how to escape the cycle. I for one want Warhammer to be about... War. Sure the other deeper darker deviousness is there, but it's better that it's given an air of mystery. If I wanted to go full slaaneshi, the dark web is just a few clicks and types away... but the fact remains most people don't actually want that. It's bad for business, bad for the mind, bad for enjoyment.
I mean seriously, how many times can you "experience" something intense before it becomes revolting? That's the whole point of the Slaanesh horror... not being able to stop. Merely imagining the depths and endlessness of your fate is enough.
I just laid down and was looking for something to listen to, thankyou Leutin you absolute legend xx
Indolence takes you! Enjoy the coast.
Nice name lmao
Unfortunately, this is the one thing I feel will probably happen due to Amazon's intervention. I don't like it, but unfortunately, Slanessh is something the general audience would complain about.
I do hope the fourth chaos faction isn't removed, but removing the grim-dark from the far future is certainly something that the corpos running the show would do to drive engagement and sales.
This would cause the death of 40k as we know it.
Biggest reason there hasn't been an update on the Amazon show I think
@@BESTGINGEREUThat's their goal
*Slaanesh is something Americans would complain about.
@@ErebosGR Slaanesh is simply a far-too-accurate representation of the average woke Amerilard, so they consider it offensive.
Seeing Idoloftheeasr's art had me giggling and I was very surprised to hear a reference to Soren. The true horror of Slaaneshbis something worth exploring and I hold out some hope for interesting story. We'll see.
I always thought of Slaanesh as the whole grey area of: where does pleasure end and pain begin, or vice versa? When does indulgence become addiction? What choices turn a surplus into an excess?
Slaanesh always seems like a foundation for everything. Pride in slaughter can be Slaanesh or khorne. Enjoying manipulation and coercion can be Slaanesh or Tzeentch. Being a plague doctor and enjoying the pain of your own infections could be Slaanesh or Nurgle. Etc etc… Slaanesh just overlaps with the others in weird ways.
in honour of the passing of James Earl Jones.
example of Slannesh in movies? The Snake Cult in Conan. The whole scene when Arnie and co break into the castle, through the kitchens where people are being drawn and turned into soup?
followed by the orgy.
followed by JEJ turning into a literal snake?
yeah.. Slannesh shite, right there...
Let's hope it's not the end of Slaanesh in 40k, there's little left beyond it.
It's time for a new franchise to explore this fully.
Slaanesh & Tzeentch are the most interesting adversaries in all of Sci-Fi because they so clearly mirror major current problems.
Tzeentch: "Progress & novelty are always good. Tradition is outdated oppression!"
Slaanesh: "The ends always justify the means. Aim for your personal utopia at any cost!"
@@spambot_gpt7 We are not allowed to criticize such things, because the LG4KTV+ will be offended. Therefore any meaningful critique thru fantasy setting is verboten.
@@neutronshiva2498
But it would be profitable....
@@spambot_gpt7 Look, they dont want to cater to old male fans anymore, they started catering to chicks. Female custodes n'shieeet. They despise the straigt male. They would rather have the mystical "Modern Audience"TM
"You won't get me, Slaanesh!"
*Proceeds to crawl away slowly... glancing over my shoulder to make sure he/she/it is chasing me*
I agree fiction has to be explicit with the sordid details of its setting. I am so tired of pretensions critics who think it is masterful writing to be vague and implicate bad things happening rather than be explicit. Many berserk panels still give me nightmares. You absolutely must show and tell the reader in excruciating detail the level of horror and depravity that is occurring. Something horrible has happened can either be an orgy of torture or your shopping bag ripping open and spilling out all your food.
The masterful thing is to make the reader/watcher feel it. For that you can imply and leave in the dark, but eventually you have to show, and at that moment you better show an image that's perfectly crafted or it's going to fail hard.
Showing too early or with not enough impact (like most modern horror movies) is just as bad as constant implication with obvious fear of showing anything clear.
That's why Berserk is so good, it shows you how horrible the world is woth excruciating detail, so much so it costed Miura and his aides a lot of their health to keep the level of quality; and yet Miura knew how to make you anticipate and fear what was coming (the "elven" children are a great example, you just know something is going to go wrong but the moment it is put there for you to realize is when you get slapped with disgust and horror)
This really gets to the heart of why I find the meme of Slannesh so exhausting. I'm a staunch Guard loyalist, but if I had to pick a Chaos God, it's Slannesh, simply for the variety that their domain provides. I loved how in Owlcat's Rogue Trader, there's a book you can find in Vyatt's secret chambers detailing the obligation of nobility to cannibalize their subjects and to savor the experience. How Vyatt's fall is itself motivated by the desire to perfect Janus and serve impeccably. It's a little taste of what the full breadth of a "Slannesh POV" looks like for normal people. And the reaction of outsiders is fear and confusion. The Rebels don't know what is going on, they just know that they get sprayed in mutagenic chemicals, and people get taken into the palace and never seen again, and that the planet itself seems to be reacting to whatever horrors they're barely sensing. The fact they're being puppeted by the Eldar really doesn't matter much. They couldn't give a name other than Vyatt to their terror, but the saw the tiniest sliver of what that terror was, and knew to fear and lash out against it.
I like Slaneesh in how the evil it represents is so contemporary! And how the Eldar that provoked Slaanesh into existence basically come off as a caricature of humans. They're everything we are. Except even more so! My theory is that the old ones designed them to be the ultimate self perfecting organism. And to find pleasure in this constant need to supercede themselves. And when the war in heaven ended they turned this tendency inward. Towards reaching ever higher climaxes in whatever they put their mind too. This lead to an endless need for new sensations and even greater heights. And unlike humans their euphoria will never make them slothful and inactive. Just desensitized. They will just keep reaching. And that's why the Craftworld Eldar teaches it's members to hyperfocus on one thing and one path. Because the Eldar mind is by nature active, extremely intelligent, obsessive and hyperconscious. It needs discipline to not be a deranged, detached addict.
But yeah. Slaanesh is the most psychologically interesting of the chaos gods. And should remain so. He/She is raw and profound in its implications.
If Slaanesh goes, I go. I say this as a Thousand Sons player. That's a line in the sand for me.
OMG... I'm lying in a hospital bed recovering from a hip operation thinking, God I really hope Luetin drops a new video so I can just relax and block everything out. And then boom...there you are. Your definitely my apothecary of choice.
Find something to laugh at if you can. That's how I kept my sanity after a major surgery. Family guy kept me going xD
I have a feeling sleeping to this might change me.
Also, thank you Luetin. You sound like safety.
The film Seven could be a really great template for the exploration of the nature of Slaanesh. It shows very little by way of graphic content, but shows enough to stimulate the viewers imagination, which will always conjure far more horrific imagery than can be put on screen. A crime story that follows an Inquisitor investigating ever more serious and brutal crimes, seeing that progression from perhaps a sudden crime of passion into something much darker and giving rise to a Slaanesh cult, but while using the same model of suggestion and hints that Seven did could be a utterly gripping watch.
I'd also be fascinated to have a "Final days of the Eldar" where Seers see what will come to pass but are ignored or dismissed. One of the tragedies of the Star Wars Prequels that I think gets overlooked is that fans know what Anakin's fate is. similar tale where we see various Eldar figures desperately trying to prevent the Fall could be a a good watch.
I think Chaos can be depicted in its full, untamed horror, but only if writers are clever with their techniques. No, we can never put the full horror onto film, but that would lessen the impact of that horror. The terrors not seen are the ones that scare us the most after all.
Desire as the death of duty is clearly a theme I think GW/Black Library writers will always want to have in the locker, so I'm not convinced we'll see 'The Death of Slaanesh' (Tm). To say nothing of the way that the theme of debauched excess can be used a mirror through which our own society can be satirised. I think, like much of 40k lore first devised in the 1980s and 90s, it is already in the process of metamorphosis to remain relevant to a modern audience, and no doubt as with any such change some people will appreciate that and others will not.
Thank you for the upload Luetin! Been watching you for years now and every video is a banger
My hometown is burning to the ground, and there's nothing I can do, save penance to the Emperor and lashing myself to normalcy with Lutein
You could make Smores.
I love the imagery and extent of slaanesh things when you actually get to see them or really think about how really fucked up they are. It's something that's almost taboo to touch on in any way that does it justice because of the extremes of it compared to anything else it feels like.
Real world people that would worship slaanesh would never acknowledge that anything they do is extreme or unreasonable. Hellraiser type stuff would be a Tuesday afternoon to them.
29:05 "Slaneesh is true horror", followed by her anime profile picture. Yup, agreed
I love your comparison with Clive Barker, his works fit very well with Slaaanesh and Weaveworld has some great examples that could translate well. The early Jaq Draco novels started to explore the Slaaaneshy perversions well but it seams that Warhammer pulled back from those halcyon days
Cegorach vs Slaneesh with the laughing god getting the last laugh to save his people is the most poetic end. I could see the Khan and the yellow king's pocket dimension have ties Cegorach.
SLAANESH lore really have me feeling like a real addict they say should be feeling high but ,,,,,
Slaanesh is too problematic to be grimdark… I wish we didn’t have to keep changing things to make people who never cared about it to begin with happy.
Yes yeeeess!
Preach
Gotta make things marketable for stuff like Hollywood
Yeah, I feel like they want to get rid of Slaanesh just to make the universe more appealing to the mass market. Super sad, super pathetic.
Your just mad that that 40k grown beyond you
Something like a year or more ago i watched/listened to a story about a person who was trying to get to the palace of slaanesh and how he had to go through all the layers of slaaneshs realm. It was such a cool story told feom the perspecrive of the perso who was overcoming all slaaneshs tenptations. It was like an hour or more long, i have been looking for that same videos since then. Thats why im watching this video. Was such a cool story/video im so bummed i never saved it n now its forever lost in the youtube void 💔😔
According to legend, it was a Grey Knight who ultimately fell when he hesitated as Slaanesh itself took the form of a child, exploiting what was left of his humanity.
@PhantomGato-v- ohhh that might help narrow down my search thanks
The goal of hedonism is freedom. Freedom from constraint. May start wholesome and just enough, freedom from hunger as a hive worker, some minor pleasure in their mundane life. Then it can be freedom from morality as the person does whatever to survive and gain what they want. Freedom from death, freedom from shame. They might even see it as an enlightened state. They have seen pass the norms, the consensus they tell themselves. In case of Fulgrim he gained it all, an immortal prince free from everything, in control of his daemon world, Reality his plaything but its never enough, it will never be enough and everything suffers around him. So can someone who seeks freedom in a search of heaven find themselves forever trapped in hell. The enlightened becoming base and unfulfilled. This angle to slaanesh i think is under utilized. The horror of slaanesh is not just the torture, the sex, the hedonism, but the journey of the character into that state and how their desire for freedom led them to a pathetic existence of endless hedonism. .
The idea is to make 40k more and more marketable and consumed by the general public.
"Grimdark" is being filtered out to just be a general power fantasy sci-fi
That is the main reason why Ultramarines rub me the wrong way. They're authoritarians, kinda, but nothing like the grimdark of the rest of humanity. It's safe.
Well, GW did delete Slaanesh from AOS. Also there is a thing with re-design of Keeper of Secrets to current stylized brazilian dancer type? I think previous design was much more raw and sensual/emotional.
That is not true that they deleted slaanesh from AOS
@@ravirage6780 ...But they did. They're just sort of... Dormant forever in that setting at this point. There's not really any plans to bring them back, so yes, they're gone.
I'll actually defend the new Keeper of Secrets tbh. Slanessh is all about excess and perfection, or perfectionism.
The regular daemons, daemonettes, and cultists can be excess, since there's so many of them, and the Keepers of Secrets can be the perfection side of things. Tall, elegant, androgynous, and somewhat alluring while still looking a bit alien, yet humanoid all the same.
1:20- Exactly what a tzeentch supporter would say.....INQUISITOR!
Slaanesh is already much more 'family friendly' than it was back in Slaves to Darkness in the late 1980s. That book had plenty of boobs etc and I was lapping up the naughtiness but mostly the general, shocking horror of it all as a 14 year old.
yeah a child should not be exposed to that kinda content
Fresh LT. A very good number of points here. Would love to see the Eldar story progress