For the life of me I can't figure out why everyone keeps mentioning the extended Universe books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson. I very clearly stated that this video deals with the "original Dune books". Obviously I know what happens to Earth in those books, there wouldn't be no need to make this video if I was talking about those books.
No, he pretty much fethed it all up after the first few "House X" books...which were a bit off, but could be covered by the vagueness of the backstory there and the difference in style of Brian and Kevin Andersen. Where Brian truly screwed the pooch was when he decided to toss The Dune Encyclopedia , which Frank himself had declared to be canon, but probably incomplete. We know 100% for sure that Frank gave McNelly access to his (Frank's) actual background notes for the Dune universe storyline that he (Frank) actually planned to write about. Brian reduced an epic and glorious 20,000 year history into....a few centuries of dregs conflating all kinds of crap to "touch base" with various things that Frank had confirmed solidly about what was in The Dune Encyclopedia. Heh, all you really have to do is look at the backstory for the 40K universe since a good chunk of the concepts were ripped off by Games Workshop.
@@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106 it would be interesting to imagine how many times in 20,000 years, humanity would have to restart from scratch because of some war or disaster. Maybe Dune could be the sequel to the matrix, humanity freed itself and scattered into the cosmos fleeing what was left of Earth after the machines had their way.
It's actually a terrible, and even harmful analogy. Because it suggest that we don't need to take care of our "cradle" since we'll just move to other planets anyway - when in reality, that cradle is all we have and probably all we'll ever have. Earth isn't our cradle, it's our home. We can look outside, we can venture outside, but there's no place like home.
@@Ezullof it's literally the opposite and you told it yourself, it's our only home TODAY so we have to take care of it, but it can't be our home eternally, even taking care of it in time we would consume most of it surface resources, that's why getting out of the cradle is the best option for both humanity and Earth
@@rodrigobogado8756this! Even if we fix climate change, make the greatest economic system ever, etc etc, the Earth will only last so long. We must leave the cradle because to not is to never grow up.
How many people today remember Sumer, where civilization supposedly began; and that was only 6,000 years ago? Or Göbekli Tepei, only relatively recently discovered; forgotten and unknown after only 13,000 years? Or what about the people who built Stonehenge or Newgrange? Not hard to imagine humanity spreading among the stars, and not only forgetting their world of origin, but also becoming "alien" to one another. After all, look how foreign we are to each other on just this single world?
Except, of course, that we're already in the information age. There's relatively little data left behind from earlier peoples. Earth data would have been copied out into the first colonies and such. Moreover, only one of the peoples you mentioned, the Sumerians, had written language. Without writings, you can only glean a little about a people.
Except, of course, within the context of Dune, "the information age" means nothing. The Jihad wasn't against just robots. Herbert wrote it specifically as "thinking machines." This would include computers. That's why Mentats exist. And, in the fervor of what amounts to a religious crusade against such devices, do you really expect them to take the time to make hard copies of all that stored data before smashing them? So much for the information age being of any help remembering Earth.
The fact that earth is barely mentioned is something that I've always found fascinating about the Dune books. It's like the planet of our origin is like the Lower Valley of Awash in Ethiopia. How often do people think about that place, which is quite possibly the birthplace of humanity? How many people have never heard of it? The idea that humans have expanded so far into the universe and colonized so many planets tens of thousands of years into the future that they've forgotten about earth strikes me as one of the most realistic and believable parts of the book series.
The difference is that people from the modern age forward (barring some kind of global catastrophe) have much better record keeping technology than ice age humans did..... Knowing about the existence of New York City, for example, goes from being impossible to just being incredibly obscure knowledge. Yeah, most people would never have heard of Brooklyn, but extremely well educated people would likely at least recognize the name, even if it's only like us having heard of Sumer..... and then there's the Bene Gesserit who would have memories of having lived in the place.
The valley of Awash isn't evidenced to be where Homo sapiens began. That's just where they found 'Lucy'. The most complete remains of Australopithecus aferensis, an ancestor of Homo sapiens.
unrealistic for galactic civilization thogh, unless they're all become primitive again in each planet they live in at one point, we know about gobekli tepe even if we have no record of it besides the ruins, how can a galactic civilization lost the knowledge about the beginning of interstellar migration? unrealistic af
Your thought is possible. We now write books of history and we are constantly researching in our past to try to know where we are from. But it was also done by any big civilization in the past. It's famous the case of the library of Alexandria where who knows how much of the knowledge of the helenic civilization was lost. Now, despite we have different technologies for saving information, I'm not sure how much time it will last. We think that we are far most advanced than the previous civilizations and that we are not going to be so stupid to let our common knowledge to be lost, but sometimes I wonder how is it possible that almost 90% of the films done before to 1929 are actually lost! Now I wonder what will happen to all this information on the internet, which I consider it's still very new technology to us. I don't know if at the end of my life (that I presume it will be at the end of this century) all this information (as this very video or comment), will be available. It will depend if the future generations consider that this information deserve to be preserved, and it will depend also of their situation. What will they think after a new world war happens?
I always loved the themes of ancestral memory in Dune. I love that the Earth has become only an ancestral memory after cataclysm pushed Humanity across the depths of space!
@@JohnSmith-dd8bf Let's hope humanity can overcome it's darker impulses. Preserve the natural beauty of this world and at a minimum journey to neighboring worlds in our Solar System.
@@LordBackuro At least it's fiction you know? Unless you were preborn and have consumed spice and know things we don't?? But fr this planet's animals are pretty cool, I personally like Orcas and Grizzly Bears so yeah
Me too. I was introduced to Dune by a friend who is also a fan of ASOIAF. He thinks of himself as a member of House Martell, by the way. Now that I've read Dune, I see why.
This is just my opinion but I believe that Frank Herbert wanted to not have to deal with the Earth as a setting for the story so moving it off Earth 20k in the future and making the planet a legend, a myth kept alive by the very educated and high brow in the society of Dune so that he didn't have to deal with what happened to it, and why we've never really ever gone back or even set a part of the Dune-verse in it.
I think you’re onto something here, I really do. That thought has occurred to me, too. This dude had enough to deal with building up all this mythology and background for the Dune universe, and trying to get an “active” earth into the mix, too, might’ve been something that would’ve made the whole thing seem too...unwieldy...and less exotic.
True, but things of importance these days get transferred to new formats. For example my family videos used to be on VHS tape, but were long ago transferred to digital on CD/ DVD. Then a decade later transferred online to Google photos, Onedrive, etc. I can still play Nintendo games from the 1980s, on a pc or phone, or even just a web browser, despite not having a physical hardware from the 80s.
@Brenden Malloy Computers will be preserved. The knowledge of the technology will be preserved. It will be a high school course exercise to build a machine that reads data from the 20th century. There will be courses on the cultural differences between the eras to help future civilizations understand our writing. I have no fear of our past being forgotten, as long as humanity survives. Data can be stored in such a small space these days. All of history and sciences and literature fits in one cubic meter of storage devices.
I really liked how Asimov approached this idea of a lost or clouded history of mankind's origins in his Empire and Foundation books. It kinda helps readers to let go of preconceptions and be more immersed in a foreign, far future when the disconnect is so large that your own species doesn't know or particularly care anymore about the only planet that'll ever matter to you.
The more I learn about Dune, the more the similarities with Star Wars become even more glaring, particularly when it comes to this lost origin of mankind. In SW, nobody truly knows where Humans appeared, but it's believed to be Coruscant, well before the gargantuan ecumenopolis that engulfed the planet later on.
Also, can I just say that the font you're using for your videos reminds me so much of reading old 70s and early 80s sci-fi novels as a kid? It's amazingly nostalgic.
I remember long ago playing the DOS space exploration game "Starflight," set in the far future after the destruction of the Old Empire of Earth. It was viscerally haunting piecing together the hints and clues of Old Earth, charting and mounting your own expedition to find it, and then seeing for yourself the proof in the recognizable shapes of the continents.
I always took 'gone' to be a figure of speech; they were so far removed from Earth at this point that nobody knew where it was. I can't recall there ever being a statement made definitively saying that Earth was literally GONE gone. Really great vid, thanks!
God Emperor Leto II refers to it as a "planet that no longer exists", and he could see all the way back into caveman days. That sounds pretty deliberate and final to me. Not existing isn't the same as being forgotten.
My theory is that Earth was destroyed by atomics at one point and that's the original reason why atomics are shunned in the Dune universe. Granted I've only begun reading Children of Dune recently.
The original books of Dune, by Frank do not explain what happened to Earth. But his son, Brain and Kevin J. Anderson, with notes from Frank himself, wrote a lot of other books to give us the whole and big picture of what Dune's universe is all about. You will like the book after Children of Dune, God Emperor ... Enjoy !!!
In the movie version of Dune, Paul uses atomics to breach the walls surrounding the Harkonnen HQ in Arakeen. But, as with everything else about Dune, who knows what theory is correct!😉
During Butlerian Jihad, human used nuclear to shutdown rogue artificial inteligence. But the book was not written by Frank Herbert himself, so I'm not clear whether it's canon or not.
In Dune, is Earth a metaphor for Eden-- the wellspring of humanity yet mysterious and unknowable. I think it's more powerful as a literary device to be left this way rather than revealing anything concrete about its disposition.
Well like the real location (the Tanakh actually quite specific on it and it is the meeting of the great rivers (both still existing and dried) of Mesopotamia aka Iraq (only stuff that doesn’t work is Eden is region in Yemen)) is far than the ideal location the stories make it out to be
@@chimera9818 Not true the region has drastically changed, this is evident in it's description of the changes of the rivers surrounding it alone. Furthermore Eden was a garden it was a habitat actively maintained by God, the wild untamed nature was everywhere outside of the "garden" of Eden.
I'd like to recommend The Dune Encyclopedia for a read. It contains a cronology of "ancient" human history, where it says that in 13402 BG (before guild, or around 3300 AD) a planetoid had struck Earth.
And if my memory is not leading me astray, I believe the Dune Encyclopedia (whose information was completely ignored by Brian Herbert's prequel novels) also mentioned Earth being reseeded after the disaster and left as a park.
You are right. I'll include some of the relevant dates from the chronology: "14100-13600 The Little Diaspora. The solar system is colonized, and the population of Terra is eventually outnumbered 20 to 1. 13402 Ceres gains the Imperial Seat after a planetoid strikes Terra. 13402-13399 The rescue of the treasures from Terra. 13360 Terra re-seeded and set aside (by Imperial edict) as a natural park." No mention of it afterwards.
@@tigerhorse6321 True, but the prequels and sequels throw pretty much the entire Encyclopedia in the trash. Maybe a few big changes would be fine, but the expanded universe does not reflect an inkling of the Encyclopedia. That’s why BH and KJA have discontinued the printing of it, so they could sell 20+ books instead of just 7.
Yes, his voice and that of the actor Matthew Broderick’s are quite similar! Go back and watch the movie: “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off” and 👂 listen to Broderick’s narration and listen to this speaker. 🤙🏼
It all seems so depressing. I feel as if being in that future time and hearing that tale would make me want to visit Old Earth; even if I could only view the rubble.
you could probably enter a simulation much like the holodeck, which your senses would not be able to distinguish the difference between that and real life, with the technology we would have by then, so dont be too sad.
Makes sense. We've lost quite a bit of knowledge of older civilizations over just couple thousand years. Can only imagine it would get worst over 20k years on top spreading to other planets.
This reminds me of the newer series of Foundation stories. Earth has been lost and, as it turned out, its location deliberately concealed by immortal robots from the early interstellar age.
I recently discovered Dune and I'm consumed by the books. They're so, so good! I power read the first book ahead of the new film but I am now really into Herbert's world. Such a great book, can't wait to crack on with Messiah and the rest! But the best part of discovering Dune (aside from the obvious) is discovering Quinn's Ideas, great guy and brilliant videos!
Thank you so much. This video is amazing. I'm just finishing reading chapter house. I have to say the way you gather these quotes and put them all together. Really reminded me of what I learned about Old earth.
Ive told my children about a fantastic story that begins 8000 years in the future and spans another 14000 years (feel free to correct me if I'm off on this recollection) They can't believe that story can be sustained that long. Frank Herbert was a master.
Dune the book takes place roughly around 22,000 AD and 10,191 AG in Dunes calendar, the last book by Herbert himself begins in 27,002 AD and 15,193 AG in Dunes calendar . but there are a series of other books by his son and some co-written with Kevin J Anderson ..but they are an acquired taste
@@alexandermcgill7250 They are based off of notes about the backstory that were written by Frank, so yeah, they may take so license to fill in the blanks, but it's still his story, and most of these UA-cam vids I see try to act like those books don't exist, or at least aren't cannon...
I always loved this far-future aspect of Dune. There's a book called Revenger that captures some similar feeling of Earth being lost, or forgotten, or just not considered important. It takes place in a decaying Dyson swarm in our own solar system, millions of years in the future. Really interesting setting.
Makes sense... How many Americans or Europeans would feel any kind of cultural connection to the steppe region around Romania/Moldova/Ukraine, even though their ancestors and languages came from there not even 10000 years ago...
It's ok, you can say Russia as well. Don't be scared. The Indo-Europeans were from the pontic-caspian steppe which also includes Russia, you can also include the steppe of Kazakhstan as well.
I do... Always have. And have tried to share that interest spark of curiosity in my children.. Now adults it shows in them and their children, and friends. There's more people than we realise that have a curiosity and interest in shared human origins, growth of cultures, shared human values
I like to imagine Gene Wolfe’s “The Book of the New Sun” series as a kind of spiritual relative to Dune. The earth is dying, because the Sun is reaching its last stage of life and growing colder and dimmer. The various characters and information in the series mention that humans became space faring at some point in their very long history but that technology and ability to do so was also lost in time for the remaining people on Urth as it is called in the books.. they also have strange alien creatures who were transported long ago to earth and have since adapted to certain areas over a long time.. its a fascinating series and I highly recommend it to fans of Dune!
I feel like if a writer today was to write and build a fantasy universe that was exquisitely done would never be remembered or dissected decades later like dune or Tolkien's middle earth. It would likely be criticized for copying at the very least no matter how different from them it was
Both of these books were built on the shoulders of previous, epics. Foundation by Asimov for dune for example. It is true they are near impossible to match now though, Im trying my best lol
Thank you for making these Dune videos! I've loved the series since my teens. Thanks for keeping it more towards the front of my mind. So many great ideas and characters, it's easy to forget when you start consuming a lot of great books and other media as we age. Best to never forget the classics. :)
Great video. It reminds me of the epic scale of the Dune universe. There must be thousands of planets with thousands of years of history scattered in the known universe for humanity to have forgotten where their race came form.
I think I remember a discussion in one of the Dune books where some astronomers are debating where Earth is or was... One mentions that the third planet in the "Sol" system seems to match what they know, but they aren't sure if that was the original Earth or if it was elsewhere; it was just so long ago that no one remembers. That might also have been in one of the Asimov "Foundation" books; I was reading those around the same time 😜
20,000 years is a mere eyeblink. It seems likely that humans spread out and simply forgot where they came from. But Earth would still be there, and still be populated.
Sadly I know that ain't the canon. Machines rose up and we had no choice but to NUKE the Planet into a ball of Radioactive dust for 50 thousand Years before a single blade of grass can grow
Mickey Bitsko 20,000 years seems like a long time to us mortals. Like you said, it's an eye blink. It's only 1 tenth of Human history and not even a blip in Earth's history.
These are far and away some of the best Dune related videos I have ever watched, Dune is my all time favorite book series ever! Your videos talk about a lot of the things i have mused over myself. So glad to find your channel!
i am starting to think that dune takes place during the age of strife, on the warhammer universe, and the houses where empires later conquered by the God Emperor of manking and his legionis astartes, before finding horus.
The timeline given is based on the Guild Calendar, so year 10,191 of the spacing guild count. The... controversial prequels imply at least that much time again had passed since the first space age.
To be sure, though, the whole notion of 10,191 years only being "post-Guild founding" years (and not "10,191 A.D.") actually comes straight from Frank Herbert himself, and was also used in the pre-Brian/Kevin _Dune Encyclopedia_ , so this is one of the very few things that they are innocent on. ;)
The fate of the earth is recounted in the prequel books. In fact, the same day earth is destroyed is also the same day the feud between the Harkonnen and Atraedes begins.
Nations described as "Tribes" and the world wars described as "raids". The perspective differs when going from planetary to galactic levels of warfare. Personally liked Dune Encyclopedia. I still have a copy.
What an excellent `little´ video. Very well done. And it makes you want to re-read the whole saga once more! I'm always glad when you've produced another Dune lore video. Thanks!
The early Sumerian, Akkadian, and Mesopotamian civilisations are so well known to us because 1) we can read their languages, and 2)their records were made of clay tablets which, seemingly paradoxically, only became more permanent when the buildings they were in, were burned to the ground by conquerors. Academic and theoretical archivists have for twenty five years, at least, referred to the Digital Dark Ages, due to the ongoing obsolescence of both software and hardware, especially between the 1960s to the early 2000s. Nowadays, the Cloud, increasingly powerful search engine functionality, and open source software are seen as saviours of digital records, but the vast majority of digital records are unfindable because the creators of them did not bother to give the documents or their digital containers meaningful names.
Myself, I discovered Tolkien 30 years ago, Dune 25 years ago, and it was my life then. I like ideas of ice and fire very much and YOU lad: I just love your beautiful channel! Lovely made, shall your harvest be rich.
You forgot to mention a single surviving piece of art work.. van Gogh's "Sun Flowers" .. Hanging on a wall.. at the sisterhoods monostery... Think.. "Chapter House.."?
Probably not without things like the spice and the Butlerian Jihad. Currenty, history is empirical. Something big must happen to lose all this knowledge.
I seem to recall that in the Dune Encyclopedia, Earth was whacked by an asteroid. It was still inhabited, but became a backwater, whose identity was forgotten. It may have even become one of the planets of Tupile.
Caladan is a planet of Delta Pavonis. Delta Pavonis is one of our suns closest neighbours, about 19 lightyears from here. Dune is one of the planets of Canopus, wich is 300 lightyears from here. So in terms of guild space travel, earth is right next door. On the other hand, the spacing guild is in complete control of who goes where. Tupile could be right next to Kaitain and still be off limits or even unknown for the emperror. But sadly, 'is gone' is quite a damning statement. When Dune was written, nuclear war was a very real possibility and there are precedents in the books, like Salusa Secundus, for fertile worlds turned into nuclear wastelands. It might explain why people are so touchy about atomics in the Imperium.
I don't remember the details but iirc The Dune Encyclopedia (not written by Herbert but based on some of his notes and conversations when he was alive) noted that Earth had been abandoned after the Butlerian Jihad. I think it was essentially because it was so over industrialized that no-one could live there without food shipments, etc, and there was nothing there of 'actual' value to the society that was being rebuilt after the war. It had also been the seat of the Old Empire. So perhaps it had been rendered unusable during the Jihad, even if it had not been glassed from orbit like in the new Dune books.
Copper, I once had the same book (long lost), and if I remember correctly, according to the Dune Encyclopedia, Earth was struck by an asteroid, _a la_ Chixulub, and rendered uninhabitable. By that time Humanity was already spread throughout the Sol System and the seat of government had been moved to Ceres.
I faintly recall that earth was struck by a planetoid and a movement called “The rescuing of the treasures” occurred and all the monuments were removed from the earth and given to different planets in the systems. Then I also recall that it was re-seaded and set apart as a natural park and all were forbidden to visit it.
Excellent video! Since this channel seems to focus on Dune, this is a huge stretch, but do you think it would be within the realm of possibility to have a similar video on Earth's fate from Issac Asimov's connected universe? Ergo, The End of Eternity, Robot, Empire and Foundation Series?
I actually really like that Earth is a distant memory, or not even a memory really. Considered mythos at that point in the Dune saga. It's frightening to imagine Earth not existing at all anymore, but for the story purposes, it makes it way more interesting and I think it also allowed Frank more room for creativity.
It is so long since I read the dune books. For some reason I got the impression Earth was Dune after humanity messed it up, left and then found it again. I was waiting for that to be revealed at some point.
I had the same impression, but it doesn't seem to be the case. That, or the Ixians took over, and it became Ix, the banned planet... but it doesn't seem to be the case either...
Making the Earth just a forgotten milestone on the path of humanity is part of what make the Dune setting so fascinating. It's so far away and advanced that people have almost completely forgotten their starting point.
In Chapterhouse (my favorite of the saga alongside the original), Odrade inherits a copy of Van Gogh´s Houses at Cordeville, made by Ixian technology. Somehow the Ixian made the picture capable to project the entire environment of the picture, so besides the Other Memories, Odrade and Taraza (the original owner of the picture) have experienced earth through the eyes of one great artist. Imagine to be able to perceive the old Egypt or even the Ice Age. Such fucking mindblown.
Western culture has only entertained the idea that humans are part of the earth, since the birth of the environmental movement. A lot of people are still in denial about this. It is far worse than forgotten. Many don't want to know.
@@wiretamer5710 humanity has been always fucking mental about the middle kingdom in every civilization, I don't think we will forget the earth, it's not about a speck of dust floating in space, but about your roots, that's why DNA tests are so popular right now.
This is also a theme from Assimov's galactic empire stories. Old earth there was long forgotten after being made uninhabitable iin order to spur expansion out into the galaxy and bypass the robot using spacers dead set on dominating old earth.
It's a "common trope" because most good science fiction tries to teach us a lesson. It's social commentary. The authors realize, at least on some level, what humans can and will do to each other and their environment and try to make a statement about it. It shouldn't be much of a surprise that many of these stories reflect the times they are written in, and often hit home. The broadcast of The War of the Worlds affected people largely due to it happening during the inter-war period leading up to World War II. Alien invasion and attack, not so different in premise from worry about the Nazis possibly invading us, especially since they had already invaded territories during the prior year. So, too, with the film version of The War of the Worlds, as well as Dr. Strangelove, both of which feature atomic bombs. Our fear of a nuclear war. And then, the whole slew of B-list "alien invasion" films starting in the 1950s. Again, probably resonating with us (and inspired by) because of a fear of the Soviets invading and/or destroying us during the Cold War. Even Star Trek tried to warn us about the dangers we face. Too much ambition not tempered with wisdom lead to the Eugenics Wars. And the third world war which devastated our civilization prior to First Contact. The Vulcans themselves were the epitome of what happens when passion completely overcomes reason. A civilization that destroyed itself and required 1500 years to rebuild. I do think there was also a hidden lesson in that last bit: total reason overcoming passion can stagnate a people. Likely it took them 1500 years because they had to completely master their emotions. I can't imagine that happened overnight. Humans, on the other hand, rebuilt their civilization in a little over 100 years. As we progressed into the nuclear age, and our technology with such weapons became more refined and more powerful (not to mention chemical and biological warfare), it seems only a natural progression that science fiction would start including stories where our civilization is so totally devastated that would *could* forget such things.
I think its a more interesting question to ask "What happens to the human psyche if Earth itself is lost?" After all, Earth is our home. We are part of Earth. In a sense, in Dune, Earth has spread across the stars. In Dune, where interstellar travel is so easy, our "Earth" has changed to be great regions of the entire Milky Way galaxy.
one would think that earth will become the beating earth of an intergalactic Empire maybe not in Industrial, or R&D, but culturally, just being the cradle of the human race is reason enough to have an intrinsic value, if they are about all of that of evolving and gene manipulation, Sol system will be even more valuable having the original conditions that make humanity evolve from animals.
As a kid in the early 90's when i read Dune me & a friend thought Arakis was Earth.. I don't remember where i rea it but the Worms were brought toArakis not native to Arakis... I just assumed because the Fremen seemed like primitive supersticious locals who we're always there.
The world shall be harvested for all it can give. The atmosphere and liquids shall be taken. The crust, mantle, and core shall be processed for all they can give. The same will be done for every planet & star in the system. When they are done they will load up the cart and move on, never to look back on the refuse they leave behind.
I only read the first 3 books. This was a long time ago when they were first released.. I seem to recall that after Dune was discovered there was a period of mass migrations to many worlds. Following the migration period, it was forbidden to return to Earth, and this was done to protect the mother planet from destruction by war or other violent acts. Fantastic work on your part.
@@grussgott0768 That's what they used to say 10.000 years ago. Guess what, we're still here. Never underrestimate the capacity of survival of a civilization.
This just makes it so much better, it’s been so long that people forget where they are from, and they’ve moved away from where they originated that humans then are so, so, so alien. It’s amazing, I’m working on finally reading the first book, and I want to learn more
Love your Videos, Your videos on the ultimate guide.. The best. Thank you for your dedication to in my opinion the best novel ever!..,Greetings from Guatemala!
So I've only read a little bit of Dune, but one thing always bugged me about it. Spice melange is required for interstellar travel and is only found on Arrakis. So how did humans come to Arrakis in the first place if they need what's on Arrakis to get to Arrakis?
i think (emphasis on think, its been a while) humans had some kind of faster than light travel like other sci fi, however when the guild developed fold space technology using spice it made traditional methods obsolete as it was way quicker. I'm of the impression that the FTL tech they had was basically a bit shit compared to the near instantaneous travel they got from the guild. I could be wrong though if anyone could correct me
It is never explicitly stated in the Frank Herbert Dune books, but 2 things: It is heavily implied that there is another form of interstellar travel that is much slower than space folding. This propulsion method must necessarily have limited range. Space folding has unlimited range. Also, the spice melange is not required for space folding at all. It is required for *safe* space folding, at least until the prescient navigation machines post Leto II.
Space folding tech using spice for the navigators was developed after arrakis and much of space was already settled by humans using traditional tech. This traditional tech was outlawed after the butlerian jihad because it used AI to navigate and AI was banned.
yea they banned all computers including NaViGaTiOn computers for star travel,im sure the ban was violated often by some for practical and self indulgent reasons, IX was reknowned for flaunting the law
Tristian Hurst If faster than light travel exists, inferior or not, then the Spacing Guild wouldn't have a monopoly on space travel. One would think anyway.
If we ever do get off this world without destroying it that's what we should do. Let the earthlings take over and down the road see who shoots a rocket into space. It might be intelligent Raccoons or Kzinti.🤪
@@Scrat335 Intelligent raccoon species following us into space to find out what new trash we've created. Thinking that way makes me ponder the human-kzin war as combat with a bunch of felines who really just want to now what's happening on the other side of our closed doors.
For the life of me I can't figure out why everyone keeps mentioning the extended Universe books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson. I very clearly stated that this video deals with the "original Dune books". Obviously I know what happens to Earth in those books, there wouldn't be no need to make this video if I was talking about those books.
IdeasOfIceAndFire Brian Herbert is not his father, so his fictive books dosen't count.
no. Brian found notes and floppy disks. Frank was going to expand it
and Brian did a very good job on it
true
No, he pretty much fethed it all up after the first few "House X" books...which were a bit off, but could be covered by the vagueness of the backstory there and the difference in style of Brian and Kevin Andersen. Where Brian truly screwed the pooch was when he decided to toss The Dune Encyclopedia , which Frank himself had declared to be canon, but probably incomplete. We know 100% for sure that Frank gave McNelly access to his (Frank's) actual background notes for the Dune universe storyline that he (Frank) actually planned to write about. Brian reduced an epic and glorious 20,000 year history into....a few centuries of dregs conflating all kinds of crap to "touch base" with various things that Frank had confirmed solidly about what was in The Dune Encyclopedia.
Heh, all you really have to do is look at the backstory for the 40K universe since a good chunk of the concepts were ripped off by Games Workshop.
*Finds Statue of Liberty sticking out of the sands of Arrakis
"You MANIACS! You BLEW IT UP!"
in the Butlarian Hijad prequal books earth is bombed as it is the thinking machines main planet.
@@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106 it would be interesting to imagine how many times in 20,000 years, humanity would have to restart from scratch because of some war or disaster. Maybe Dune could be the sequel to the matrix, humanity freed itself and scattered into the cosmos fleeing what was left of Earth after the machines had their way.
That's stupid.
Pretty sure copper sheet won't last 20,000 years.
Brilliant!👍😋
"Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot live in the cradle forever." - Konstantin Tsiolkovsky
here's my opinion on that.. we have to leave our cradle but we can visit our fond memories
It's actually a terrible, and even harmful analogy. Because it suggest that we don't need to take care of our "cradle" since we'll just move to other planets anyway - when in reality, that cradle is all we have and probably all we'll ever have.
Earth isn't our cradle, it's our home. We can look outside, we can venture outside, but there's no place like home.
@@Ezullof it's literally the opposite and you told it yourself, it's our only home TODAY so we have to take care of it, but it can't be our home eternally, even taking care of it in time we would consume most of it surface resources, that's why getting out of the cradle is the best option for both humanity and Earth
@@rodrigobogado8756this! Even if we fix climate change, make the greatest economic system ever, etc etc, the Earth will only last so long. We must leave the cradle because to not is to never grow up.
"Earth is the planet of humanity, but one cannot live in the planet forever. Contrariwise- yes they can." Me
The Bene Gesserit are in the posession of one of the few artifacts of Old Terra: Van Gogh's "Starry Night".
Gotta garble the name. "Spice-Vision of Folding Stars," by the Frankonnen artist Vene Goga.
Was that is a movie?! That would be fitting,my favorite artist,and favorite painting.🌌🌉
They have in their possession. If they are possessed then they need an exorcist.
Wrong Seven Seas17! It was a Van Gough, but not Starry Night. It was The Thatched Cottages at Cordeville.
@@ddmagee57 Thumbs up. It's on Chapterhouse planet.
How many people today remember Sumer, where civilization supposedly began; and that was only 6,000 years ago? Or Göbekli Tepei, only relatively recently discovered; forgotten and unknown after only 13,000 years? Or what about the people who built Stonehenge or Newgrange? Not hard to imagine humanity spreading among the stars, and not only forgetting their world of origin, but also becoming "alien" to one another. After all, look how foreign we are to each other on just this single world?
And the fate of Earth in Asimov's Foundation series.
Well one of our worlds of origin is sirius...so not everything is forgotten. 😉
pepperidge farm remembers
Except, of course, that we're already in the information age. There's relatively little data left behind from earlier peoples. Earth data would have been copied out into the first colonies and such. Moreover, only one of the peoples you mentioned, the Sumerians, had written language. Without writings, you can only glean a little about a people.
Except, of course, within the context of Dune, "the information age" means nothing. The Jihad wasn't against just robots. Herbert wrote it specifically as "thinking machines." This would include computers. That's why Mentats exist. And, in the fervor of what amounts to a religious crusade against such devices, do you really expect them to take the time to make hard copies of all that stored data before smashing them? So much for the information age being of any help remembering Earth.
The fact that earth is barely mentioned is something that I've always found fascinating about the Dune books. It's like the planet of our origin is like the Lower Valley of Awash in Ethiopia. How often do people think about that place, which is quite possibly the birthplace of humanity? How many people have never heard of it?
The idea that humans have expanded so far into the universe and colonized so many planets tens of thousands of years into the future that they've forgotten about earth strikes me as one of the most realistic and believable parts of the book series.
The difference is that people from the modern age forward (barring some kind of global catastrophe) have much better record keeping technology than ice age humans did..... Knowing about the existence of New York City, for example, goes from being impossible to just being incredibly obscure knowledge.
Yeah, most people would never have heard of Brooklyn, but extremely well educated people would likely at least recognize the name, even if it's only like us having heard of Sumer..... and then there's the Bene Gesserit who would have memories of having lived in the place.
The valley of Awash isn't evidenced to be where Homo sapiens began.
That's just where they found 'Lucy'. The most complete remains of Australopithecus aferensis, an ancestor of Homo sapiens.
unrealistic for galactic civilization thogh, unless they're all become primitive again in each planet they live in at one point, we know about gobekli tepe even if we have no record of it besides the ruins, how can a galactic civilization lost the knowledge about the beginning of interstellar migration? unrealistic af
Your thought is possible. We now write books of history and we are constantly researching in our past to try to know where we are from. But it was also done by any big civilization in the past. It's famous the case of the library of Alexandria where who knows how much of the knowledge of the helenic civilization was lost. Now, despite we have different technologies for saving information, I'm not sure how much time it will last.
We think that we are far most advanced than the previous civilizations and that we are not going to be so stupid to let our common knowledge to be lost, but sometimes I wonder how is it possible that almost 90% of the films done before to 1929 are actually lost!
Now I wonder what will happen to all this information on the internet, which I consider it's still very new technology to us. I don't know if at the end of my life (that I presume it will be at the end of this century) all this information (as this very video or comment), will be available. It will depend if the future generations consider that this information deserve to be preserved, and it will depend also of their situation. What will they think after a new world war happens?
Humanity is actually from the southern parts of the African continent. Near botswana I believe.
I always loved the themes of ancestral memory in Dune. I love that the Earth has become only an ancestral memory after cataclysm pushed Humanity across the depths of space!
Who knows, maybe humanity won't live long enough to leave earth.
@@JohnSmith-dd8bf Let's hope humanity can overcome it's darker impulses. Preserve the natural beauty of this world and at a minimum journey to neighboring worlds in our Solar System.
@@LordBackuro At least it's fiction you know? Unless you were preborn and have consumed spice and know things we don't??
But fr this planet's animals are pretty cool, I personally like Orcas and Grizzly Bears so yeah
I came for the ice and fire, but stayed for the spice 🤗
the spice must flow
Two Bits
Spice and Fire?
Aye yoooooooooio
Me too. I was introduced to Dune by a friend who is also a fan of ASOIAF. He thinks of himself as a member of House Martell, by the way. Now that I've read Dune, I see why.
The spice beer goes to your head.
This is just my opinion but I believe that Frank Herbert wanted to not have to deal with the Earth as a setting for the story so moving it off Earth 20k in the future and making the planet a legend, a myth kept alive by the very educated and high brow in the society of Dune so that he didn't have to deal with what happened to it, and why we've never really ever gone back or even set a part of the Dune-verse in it.
Interesting theory.
I think you’re onto something here, I really do. That thought has occurred to me, too. This dude had enough to deal with building up all this mythology and background for the Dune universe, and trying to get an “active” earth into the mix, too, might’ve been something that would’ve made the whole thing seem too...unwieldy...and less exotic.
That and he was influenced by Asimov's universe.
True, but things of importance these days get transferred to new formats.
For example my family videos used to be on VHS tape, but were long ago transferred to digital on CD/ DVD.
Then a decade later transferred online to Google photos, Onedrive, etc.
I can still play Nintendo games from the 1980s, on a pc or phone, or even just a web browser, despite not having a physical hardware from the 80s.
@Brenden Malloy Computers will be preserved. The knowledge of the technology will be preserved. It will be a high school course exercise to build a machine that reads data from the 20th century. There will be courses on the cultural differences between the eras to help future civilizations understand our writing. I have no fear of our past being forgotten, as long as humanity survives. Data can be stored in such a small space these days. All of history and sciences and literature fits in one cubic meter of storage devices.
I really liked how Asimov approached this idea of a lost or clouded history of mankind's origins in his Empire and Foundation books.
It kinda helps readers to let go of preconceptions and be more immersed in a foreign, far future when the disconnect is so large that your own species doesn't know or particularly care anymore about the only planet that'll ever matter to you.
definitely trippy to think about!
The more I learn about Dune, the more the similarities with Star Wars become even more glaring, particularly when it comes to this lost origin of mankind. In SW, nobody truly knows where Humans appeared, but it's believed to be Coruscant, well before the gargantuan ecumenopolis that engulfed the planet later on.
I thought everybody knew that Earth was demolished by a Vogon constructor fleet to make way for a hyperspace bypass.
Of course, the plans were on display for the last fifty years at the field office in Alpha Centauri, why wouldn’t they?
I mean Alpha Centuri is only four light years away you know
@@tanyapowell8577 I've no sympathy at all.
Of course it was! Everybody knows that! If you don't then you've had one too pan-galactic gargle blasters! :=)
Though the dolphins did try to warn the humans.
"Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair."
- Ozymandias, by Percy Bysse Shelley.
Also, can I just say that the font you're using for your videos reminds me so much of reading old 70s and early 80s sci-fi novels as a kid? It's amazingly nostalgic.
Temporal history verifies Shelley's observation.
@@johnfdzurakjr111 Temporal history inspired Shelley's observation.
Jim Fortune - So true, Jim, ha, ha.
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay of that colossal wreck, the lone and level sands stretch far away....
I remember long ago playing the DOS space exploration game "Starflight," set in the far future after the destruction of the Old Empire of Earth. It was viscerally haunting piecing together the hints and clues of Old Earth, charting and mounting your own expedition to find it, and then seeing for yourself the proof in the recognizable shapes of the continents.
Starflight is one of my favourite games of all time.
I remember finding Earth. Brilliant game.
That game was one of the best ever made. The sequel
Is great also
I always took 'gone' to be a figure of speech; they were so far removed from Earth at this point that nobody knew where it was. I can't recall there ever being a statement made definitively saying that Earth was literally GONE gone. Really great vid, thanks!
God Emperor Leto II refers to it as a "planet that no longer exists", and he could see all the way back into caveman days. That sounds pretty deliberate and final to me. Not existing isn't the same as being forgotten.
My theory is that Earth was destroyed by atomics at one point and that's the original reason why atomics are shunned in the Dune universe. Granted I've only begun reading Children of Dune recently.
The original books of Dune, by Frank do not explain what happened to Earth. But his son, Brain and Kevin J. Anderson, with notes from Frank himself, wrote a lot of other books to give us the whole and big picture of what Dune's universe is all about. You will like the book after Children of Dune, God Emperor ... Enjoy !!!
In the movie version of Dune, Paul uses atomics to breach the walls surrounding the Harkonnen HQ in Arakeen. But, as with everything else about Dune, who knows what theory is correct!😉
@Jay Leno It is why the Stoneburner used against Muad'Dib in Dune Messia was such a crime. Then atomics were used against people.
During Butlerian Jihad, human used nuclear to shutdown rogue artificial inteligence. But the book was not written by Frank Herbert himself, so I'm not clear whether it's canon or not.
@@boulderbash19700209 it was done with notes he found by his father on a whole bunch of books .
In Dune, is Earth a metaphor for Eden-- the wellspring of humanity yet mysterious and unknowable. I think it's more powerful as a literary device to be left this way rather than revealing anything concrete about its disposition.
wow, and in real life, we are really shitting all over Eden
Try telling that to Frank Herbert's son.
Well like the real location (the Tanakh actually quite specific on it and it is the meeting of the great rivers (both still existing and dried) of Mesopotamia aka Iraq (only stuff that doesn’t work is Eden is region in Yemen)) is far than the ideal location the stories make it out to be
@@chimera9818 Not true the region has drastically changed, this is evident in it's description of the changes of the rivers surrounding it alone. Furthermore Eden was a garden it was a habitat actively maintained by God, the wild untamed nature was everywhere outside of the "garden" of Eden.
I'd like to recommend The Dune Encyclopedia for a read. It contains a cronology of "ancient" human history, where it says that in 13402 BG (before guild, or around 3300 AD) a planetoid had struck Earth.
And if my memory is not leading me astray, I believe the Dune Encyclopedia (whose information was completely ignored by Brian Herbert's prequel novels) also mentioned Earth being reseeded after the disaster and left as a park.
You are right. I'll include some of the relevant dates from the chronology:
"14100-13600 The Little Diaspora. The solar system is colonized, and the population of Terra is eventually outnumbered 20 to 1.
13402 Ceres gains the Imperial Seat after a planetoid strikes Terra.
13402-13399 The rescue of the treasures from Terra.
13360 Terra re-seeded and set aside (by Imperial edict) as a natural park."
No mention of it afterwards.
@@NikovaRaskol I no longer have the encyclopedia, but that's exactly how I remember it
IIRC, Herbert said he liked the Dune Encyclopedia, but kept his own council on how accurate it was...
@@tigerhorse6321 True, but the prequels and sequels throw pretty much the entire Encyclopedia in the trash. Maybe a few big changes would be fine, but the expanded universe does not reflect an inkling of the Encyclopedia. That’s why BH and KJA have discontinued the printing of it, so they could sell 20+ books instead of just 7.
My only criticism of your videos is that they are not a half hour long. I could literally listen to this all day long. Thank you.
I totally agree he has a good narrator voice
Yes, his voice and that of the actor Matthew Broderick’s are quite similar! Go back and watch the movie: “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off” and 👂 listen to Broderick’s narration and listen to this speaker. 🤙🏼
It all seems so depressing. I feel as if being in that future time and hearing that tale would make me want to visit Old Earth; even if I could only view the rubble.
@@LordBackuro -- If we don't destroy ourselves first.
you could probably enter a simulation much like the holodeck, which your senses would not be able to distinguish the difference between that and real life, with the technology we would have by then, so dont be too sad.
There would be no rubble.
There'd be forests and grasslands.
Like those ancient cities we're finding by scanning jungles with LIDAR etc :)
Makes sense. We've lost quite a bit of knowledge of older civilizations over just couple thousand years. Can only imagine it would get worst over 20k years on top spreading to other planets.
Except now everything is documented and stored like it never was in history
@@ari4novaIt could still definitely happen. Even in modern day, people rewrite history try to fit their own agendas
This reminds me of the newer series of Foundation stories. Earth has been lost and, as it turned out, its location deliberately concealed by immortal robots from the early interstellar age.
maybe foundation could be a prequel for dune universe. with after the war of thinking machines so too the last memory of earth was lost and forgotten.
"So long and thanks for all the fish "
Clearly the dolphins still remember Earth
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 good one
I recently discovered Dune and I'm consumed by the books. They're so, so good! I power read the first book ahead of the new film but I am now really into Herbert's world. Such a great book, can't wait to crack on with Messiah and the rest! But the best part of discovering Dune (aside from the obvious) is discovering Quinn's Ideas, great guy and brilliant videos!
Thank you so much. This video is amazing. I'm just finishing reading chapter house. I have to say the way you gather these quotes and put them all together. Really reminded me of what I learned about Old earth.
Ive told my children about a fantastic story that begins 8000 years in the future and spans another 14000 years (feel free to correct me if I'm off on this recollection) They can't believe that story can be sustained that long.
Frank Herbert was a master.
Good idea, :))
its fun to shake the youngsters entertainment ideas up a bit sometimes. X)
you can add Foundation Series too. ;)
Dune the book takes place roughly around 22,000 AD and 10,191 AG in Dunes calendar, the last book by Herbert himself begins in 27,002 AD and 15,193 AG in Dunes calendar . but there are a series of other books by his son and some co-written with Kevin J Anderson ..but they are an acquired taste
@@alexandermcgill7250 I finally read that timeline recently. Even more staggering.
Not too hard if you put a few thousand years in between each novel and just describe it as time gone by. 😛
@@alexandermcgill7250 They are based off of notes about the backstory that were written by Frank, so yeah, they may take so license to fill in the blanks, but it's still his story, and most of these UA-cam vids I see try to act like those books don't exist, or at least aren't cannon...
I always loved this far-future aspect of Dune. There's a book called Revenger that captures some similar feeling of Earth being lost, or forgotten, or just not considered important. It takes place in a decaying Dyson swarm in our own solar system, millions of years in the future. Really interesting setting.
Makes sense... How many Americans or Europeans would feel any kind of cultural connection to the steppe region around Romania/Moldova/Ukraine, even though their ancestors and languages came from there not even 10000 years ago...
For some reason nowadays they seem to want to erase their history
It's ok, you can say Russia as well. Don't be scared. The Indo-Europeans were from the pontic-caspian steppe which also includes Russia, you can also include the steppe of Kazakhstan as well.
I do... Always have. And have tried to share that interest spark of curiosity in my children.. Now adults it shows in them and their children, and friends. There's more people than we realise that have a curiosity and interest in shared human origins, growth of cultures, shared human values
@@AcausalMonolithRussia doesn't exist bruhhhh
I've never been there yet, but I suspect it would look not too different from the Netherlands.... 🙃
I like to imagine Gene Wolfe’s “The Book of the New Sun” series as a kind of spiritual relative to Dune.
The earth is dying, because the Sun is reaching its last stage of life and growing colder and dimmer. The various characters and information in the series mention that humans became space faring at some point in their very long history but that technology and ability to do so was also lost in time for the remaining people on Urth as it is called in the books.. they also have strange alien creatures who were transported long ago to earth and have since adapted to certain areas over a long time.. its a fascinating series and I highly recommend it to fans of Dune!
Lol the Sun will become larger and destroy Earth and most of the Solar system before growing colder and dimmer! Real life science bro :-)
I feel like if a writer today was to write and build a fantasy universe that was exquisitely done would never be remembered or dissected decades later like dune or Tolkien's middle earth. It would likely be criticized for copying at the very least no matter how different from them it was
Truly original writers/story-tellers are few and far between.
Both of these books were built on the shoulders of previous, epics. Foundation by Asimov for dune for example. It is true they are near impossible to match now though, Im trying my best lol
Thank you for making these Dune videos! I've loved the series since my teens. Thanks for keeping it more towards the front of my mind. So many great ideas and characters, it's easy to forget when you start consuming a lot of great books and other media as we age. Best to never forget the classics. :)
This one has been coming up in my recommendations and I always read, 'Dude, what happened to Earth?'
😂
Great video. It reminds me of the epic scale of the Dune universe. There must be thousands of planets with thousands of years of history scattered in the known universe for humanity to have forgotten where their race came form.
I think I remember a discussion in one of the Dune books where some astronomers are debating where Earth is or was... One mentions that the third planet in the "Sol" system seems to match what they know, but they aren't sure if that was the original Earth or if it was elsewhere; it was just so long ago that no one remembers.
That might also have been in one of the Asimov "Foundation" books; I was reading those around the same time 😜
Definitely foundation
Thats foundation for sure
I discovered your channel only a couple of days ago, but I got to tell you from now on I'll come to you as the Duniverse expert!
20,000 years is a mere eyeblink. It seems likely that humans spread out and simply forgot where they came from. But Earth would still be there, and still be populated.
Mickey Bitsko Earth fell into a state of anarchy
Sadly I know that ain't the canon. Machines rose up and we had no choice but to NUKE the Planet into a ball of Radioactive dust for 50 thousand Years before a single blade of grass can grow
Mickey Bitsko 20,000 years seems like a long time to us mortals. Like you said, it's an eye blink. It's only 1 tenth of Human history and not even a blip in Earth's history.
That would make another good book.
Not if it was wiped out.
These are far and away some of the best Dune related videos I have ever watched, Dune is my all time favorite book series ever! Your videos talk about a lot of the things i have mused over myself. So glad to find your channel!
I love that Earth is only an untouchable legend in Dune.
i am starting to think that dune takes place during the age of strife, on the warhammer universe, and the houses where empires later conquered by the God Emperor of manking and his legionis astartes, before finding horus.
the Emperor is making the 20 original Astartes ready for unifying humanity under his powerful mantle.
Fascinating. I had no idea that Earth was even part of the "known Universe" in the Dune stories. Glad to know it was in there somewhere at least.
The timeline given is based on the Guild Calendar, so year 10,191 of the spacing guild count. The... controversial prequels imply at least that much time again had passed since the first space age.
Did Herbert happen to mention whether Earth was flat or spherical? It would go a long way to clearing up the debate.
You would have if you had read the Dune series. I did and remember all those passages quoted.
To be sure, though, the whole notion of 10,191 years only being "post-Guild founding" years (and not "10,191 A.D.") actually comes straight from Frank Herbert himself, and was also used in the pre-Brian/Kevin _Dune Encyclopedia_ , so this is one of the very few things that they are innocent on. ;)
The fate of the earth is recounted in the prequel books. In fact, the same day earth is destroyed is also the same day the feud between the Harkonnen and Atraedes begins.
It makes sense. Who remembers the first village ever? The first cave where drawings were made?
I remember a part of the Dune Encyclopedia where it was mentioned that "the seat of the Empire moved from London to Washington".
Nations described as "Tribes" and the world wars described as "raids". The perspective differs when going from planetary to galactic levels of warfare. Personally liked Dune Encyclopedia. I still have a copy.
Your voice against this music is my happy place. When I’m in my sad place. Thanks for picking up the mic and doing this.
Great video and also great other content. I didn't know about Hyperion...
What an excellent `little´ video. Very well done. And it makes you want to re-read the whole saga once more! I'm always glad when you've produced another Dune lore video. Thanks!
Yes, they see us and The Golden age of Earth in much the way we see Camelot, or Brigadoon, or Olympus where the gods hang out.... Shangri-La.
This channel is a gold mine
What happened to Earth?
Frank Herbert: I'd rather keep it vague.
Brian Herbert: Earth go BOOM!!! Derp.
Finally this channel will start getting the recognition it deserves :)
"Earth seems to be almost entirely forgotten in the Duniverse."
You're welcome.
The early Sumerian, Akkadian, and Mesopotamian civilisations are so well known to us because 1) we can read their languages, and 2)their records were made of clay tablets which, seemingly paradoxically, only became more permanent when the buildings they were in, were burned to the ground by conquerors.
Academic and theoretical archivists have for twenty five years, at least, referred to the Digital Dark Ages, due to the ongoing obsolescence of both software and hardware, especially between the 1960s to the early 2000s.
Nowadays, the Cloud, increasingly powerful search engine functionality, and open source software are seen as saviours of digital records, but the vast majority of digital records are unfindable because the creators of them did not bother to give the documents or their digital containers meaningful names.
Plot twist Arrakis is Earth
& the 2nd moon is the Death Star! 😉
Myself, I discovered Tolkien 30 years ago, Dune 25 years ago, and it was my life then. I like ideas of ice and fire very much and YOU lad: I just love your beautiful channel! Lovely made, shall your harvest be rich.
You forgot to mention a single surviving piece of art work.. van Gogh's "Sun Flowers" .. Hanging on a wall.. at the sisterhoods monostery... Think.. "Chapter House.."?
Earth is humanity's cradle. If don't destroy ourselves first, we will one day leave and maybe even forget it.
Probably not without things like the spice and the Butlerian Jihad. Currenty, history is empirical. Something big must happen to lose all this knowledge.
I seem to recall that in the Dune Encyclopedia, Earth was whacked by an asteroid. It was still inhabited, but became a backwater, whose identity was forgotten. It may have even become one of the planets of Tupile.
Caladan is a planet of Delta Pavonis. Delta Pavonis is one of our suns closest neighbours, about 19 lightyears from here. Dune is one of the planets of Canopus, wich is 300 lightyears from here. So in terms of guild space travel, earth is right next door. On the other hand, the spacing guild is in complete control of who goes where. Tupile could be right next to Kaitain and still be off limits or even unknown for the emperror.
But sadly, 'is gone' is quite a damning statement. When Dune was written, nuclear war was a very real possibility and there are precedents in the books, like Salusa Secundus, for fertile worlds turned into nuclear wastelands. It might explain why people are so touchy about atomics in the Imperium.
@@tomitiustritus6672 If you choose to engage with the prequels Earth was destroyed using atomics during the first major battle of the Butlarian Jihad.
Ya know what would be the craziest thing, that DUNE is Earth
I don't remember the details but iirc The Dune Encyclopedia (not written by Herbert but based on some of his notes and conversations when he was alive) noted that Earth had been abandoned after the Butlerian Jihad. I think it was essentially because it was so over industrialized that no-one could live there without food shipments, etc, and there was nothing there of 'actual' value to the society that was being rebuilt after the war. It had also been the seat of the Old Empire. So perhaps it had been rendered unusable during the Jihad, even if it had not been glassed from orbit like in the new Dune books.
Copper, I once had the same book (long lost), and if I remember correctly, according to the Dune Encyclopedia, Earth was struck by an asteroid, _a la_ Chixulub, and rendered uninhabitable. By that time Humanity was already spread throughout the Sol System and the seat of government had been moved to Ceres.
Love this! Thank you for connecting all these narratives and making this point so clear.
Just finished God Emperor. This video means a lot to me. Thank you for this passionate video!
Paul Anderson late start
It's bittersweet. I always imagine in a far flung future, that the Earth would somehow be preserved and revered.
...and from the ruins rose the United Earth Federation. An old idea made new - unite the galaxy, and restore order.
No matter the cost.
Yes unite the galaxy under one rule to bring peace. And then we can overthrow it for freedom. And repeat forever I guess.
@@maxfmfdm Circle of life.
We're born, learn, forget, die, repeat.
"Strategic Launch Detected"
the Emperor Protects, big emp is using his psycher powers to keep the earth hidden.
Your videos are so beautiful. Especially the Dune videos. Thank you for making them.
I'd like to hear more of this. Great presentation.
Hey man, i really like your videos. You have a very warm voice that is easy to listen to.
I faintly recall that earth was struck by a planetoid and a movement called “The rescuing of the treasures” occurred and all the monuments were removed from the earth and given to different planets in the systems. Then I also recall that it was re-seaded and set apart as a natural park and all were forbidden to visit it.
expertly composed video here Quinn. Bravo.
Excellent video!
Since this channel seems to focus on Dune, this is a huge stretch, but do you think it would be within the realm of possibility to have a similar video on Earth's fate from Issac Asimov's connected universe? Ergo, The End of Eternity, Robot, Empire and Foundation Series?
To me, Dune is a series written for adults, while Foundation is written for adolescents.
I actually really like that Earth is a distant memory, or not even a memory really. Considered mythos at that point in the Dune saga. It's frightening to imagine Earth not existing at all anymore, but for the story purposes, it makes it way more interesting and I think it also allowed Frank more room for creativity.
It is so long since I read the dune books. For some reason I got the impression Earth was Dune after humanity messed it up, left and then found it again. I was waiting for that to be revealed at some point.
Arrakis is mentioned to orbit Canopus, a real star 300 lightyears from earth. Its one of the brighter ones, so it fits with the desert planet thing.
I had the same impression, but it doesn't seem to be the case. That, or the Ixians took over, and it became Ix, the banned planet... but it doesn't seem to be the case either...
Making the Earth just a forgotten milestone on the path of humanity is part of what make the Dune setting so fascinating. It's so far away and advanced that people have almost completely forgotten their starting point.
In Chapterhouse (my favorite of the saga alongside the original), Odrade inherits a copy of Van Gogh´s Houses at Cordeville, made by Ixian technology. Somehow the Ixian made the picture capable to project the entire environment of the picture, so besides the Other Memories, Odrade and Taraza (the original owner of the picture) have experienced earth through the eyes of one great artist. Imagine to be able to perceive the old Egypt or even the Ice Age. Such fucking mindblown.
I love your Dune series. Keep 'em coming.
Earth will remain forged on the surface of our hearts.
We will never forget.
Western culture has only entertained the idea that humans are part of the earth, since the birth of the environmental movement. A lot of people are still in denial about this. It is far worse than forgotten. Many don't want to know.
Hardly, if humans survive long enough, we will be far removed from the earth
@@wiretamer5710 humanity has been always fucking mental about the middle kingdom in every civilization, I don't think we will forget the earth, it's not about a speck of dust floating in space, but about your roots, that's why DNA tests are so popular right now.
I enjoyed Dune back in the 80'.
This is very nice. Brings back old memories.
Thx for this.
This is also a theme from Assimov's galactic empire stories. Old earth there was long forgotten after being made uninhabitable iin order to spur expansion out into the galaxy and bypass the robot using spacers dead set on dominating old earth.
robadamson1 Also Hyperion and a lot of Bradbury stories. It's a common trope for some reason
It's a "common trope" because most good science fiction tries to teach us a lesson. It's social commentary. The authors realize, at least on some level, what humans can and will do to each other and their environment and try to make a statement about it. It shouldn't be much of a surprise that many of these stories reflect the times they are written in, and often hit home. The broadcast of The War of the Worlds affected people largely due to it happening during the inter-war period leading up to World War II. Alien invasion and attack, not so different in premise from worry about the Nazis possibly invading us, especially since they had already invaded territories during the prior year.
So, too, with the film version of The War of the Worlds, as well as Dr. Strangelove, both of which feature atomic bombs. Our fear of a nuclear war. And then, the whole slew of B-list "alien invasion" films starting in the 1950s. Again, probably resonating with us (and inspired by) because of a fear of the Soviets invading and/or destroying us during the Cold War.
Even Star Trek tried to warn us about the dangers we face. Too much ambition not tempered with wisdom lead to the Eugenics Wars. And the third world war which devastated our civilization prior to First Contact. The Vulcans themselves were the epitome of what happens when passion completely overcomes reason. A civilization that destroyed itself and required 1500 years to rebuild. I do think there was also a hidden lesson in that last bit: total reason overcoming passion can stagnate a people. Likely it took them 1500 years because they had to completely master their emotions. I can't imagine that happened overnight. Humans, on the other hand, rebuilt their civilization in a little over 100 years.
As we progressed into the nuclear age, and our technology with such weapons became more refined and more powerful (not to mention chemical and biological warfare), it seems only a natural progression that science fiction would start including stories where our civilization is so totally devastated that would *could* forget such things.
Powerful stuff. Thx! This channel rocks
I think its a more interesting question to ask "What happens to the human psyche if Earth itself is lost?" After all, Earth is our home. We are part of Earth. In a sense, in Dune, Earth has spread across the stars. In Dune, where interstellar travel is so easy, our "Earth" has changed to be great regions of the entire Milky Way galaxy.
one would think that earth will become the beating earth of an intergalactic Empire maybe not in Industrial, or R&D, but culturally, just being the cradle of the human race is reason enough to have an intrinsic value, if they are about all of that of evolving and gene manipulation, Sol system will be even more valuable having the original conditions that make humanity evolve from animals.
Thanks for doing the Dune videos. Great job!
Google leads to Terminator.....leads to the matrix.....leads to dune.
The history of our future is already written.
And then Warhammer 40k.
and from Dune to Warhammer 40k
indeed
I think a mix of Google and Elon leads into Neuromancer, that becomes The Matrix, and after that, Dune.
i love this channel
MEGA!
Make Earth Great Again!
knuke I'm going to steal your quote and get that print on a hat
😂
knuke 👌🐸🌎
I love listening to your videos. Your voice is pleasant.
As a kid in the early 90's when i read Dune me & a friend thought Arakis was Earth..
I don't remember where i rea it but the Worms were brought toArakis not native to Arakis...
I just assumed because the Fremen seemed like primitive supersticious locals who we're always there.
Dude!!! Your videos are always killer!!!
The world shall be harvested for all it can give. The atmosphere and liquids shall be taken. The crust, mantle, and core shall be processed for all they can give. The same will be done for every planet & star in the system. When they are done they will load up the cart and move on, never to look back on the refuse they leave behind.
I only read the first 3 books. This was a long time ago when they were first released.. I seem to recall that after Dune was discovered there was a period of mass migrations to many worlds. Following the migration period, it was forbidden to return to Earth, and this was done to protect the mother planet from destruction by war or other violent acts. Fantastic work on your part.
10 000 years from now this might actually become reality.
Pretty Sure 10.000 Years from now We will No longer Be around
@@grussgott0768 That's what they used to say 10.000 years ago. Guess what, we're still here. Never underrestimate the capacity of survival of a civilization.
You've put this together well. I enjoyed your presentation. It stirred my imagination
Would it not just have been easily “lost” during the war against the machines? And what a fitting place for the machines to take refuge...
Sounds like the machines kicked our asses and never allowed us back.
This just makes it so much better, it’s been so long that people forget where they are from, and they’ve moved away from where they originated that humans then are so, so, so alien. It’s amazing, I’m working on finally reading the first book, and I want to learn more
Farewell Old Earth
Christie Brooks ain't no love lost on my part goodbye to a warmongering country goodbye to a warmongering planet
Great evaluation as always!!
0:18 - I guess Dune is secretly a part of the DC Extended Universe, huh?
Love your Videos, Your videos on the ultimate guide.. The best. Thank you for your dedication to in my opinion the best novel ever!..,Greetings from Guatemala!
So I've only read a little bit of Dune, but one thing always bugged me about it. Spice melange is required for interstellar travel and is only found on Arrakis. So how did humans come to Arrakis in the first place if they need what's on Arrakis to get to Arrakis?
i think (emphasis on think, its been a while) humans had some kind of faster than light travel like other sci fi, however when the guild developed fold space technology using spice it made traditional methods obsolete as it was way quicker. I'm of the impression that the FTL tech they had was basically a bit shit compared to the near instantaneous travel they got from the guild. I could be wrong though if anyone could correct me
It is never explicitly stated in the Frank Herbert Dune books, but 2 things:
It is heavily implied that there is another form of interstellar travel that is much slower than space folding. This propulsion method must necessarily have limited range. Space folding has unlimited range. Also, the spice melange is not required for space folding at all. It is required for *safe* space folding, at least until the prescient navigation machines post Leto II.
Space folding tech using spice for the navigators was developed after arrakis and much of space was already settled by humans using traditional tech. This traditional tech was outlawed after the butlerian jihad because it used AI to navigate and AI was banned.
yea they banned all computers including NaViGaTiOn computers for star travel,im sure the ban was violated often by some for practical and self indulgent reasons, IX was reknowned for flaunting the law
Tristian Hurst If faster than light travel exists, inferior or not, then the Spacing Guild wouldn't have a monopoly on space travel. One would think anyway.
I'm loving all the Dune stuff.
Is there a fanfiction about dune universe discovering earth?
Interesting that common personal names (Paul, Jessica, Vladimir, etc.) have survived, but Earth is almost forgotten.
I thought it had been quarantined as a nature preserve.
If we ever do get off this world without destroying it that's what we should do. Let the earthlings take over and down the road see who shoots a rocket into space. It might be intelligent Raccoons or Kzinti.🤪
@@Scrat335 Intelligent raccoon species following us into space to find out what new trash we've created. Thinking that way makes me ponder the human-kzin war as combat with a bunch of felines who really just want to now what's happening on the other side of our closed doors.
Beautifully done, Quinn!
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥