given the cost of a set of pads (like 5 bucks) and a new dis (like how often? at $16) its going to take a few years to make that worth the cost of just changing pads (not even factoring in all the time for fitting it) ... however in VERY RARE situations on super long down hills on super steep mountain roads it may help prevent brake over heating.
Great video. Apart from saving brake pads: It's great for heavy cargo in the mountains/hills. Then the return is much higher than just stop and go. It's rather: It would be stupid not making use of the hard gained potential energy. The overcharging note is a good reminder and could be prevented with some additional overcharge protection which disables regen when the battery voltage is to high.
when using pulsed dc coils, you get inductive spikes, these carry a lot of energy that can be restored into the battery. to do so the esc needs to have fast switching mosfets.
Each year the Google Gravity Games have an Engineering Challenge class. In 2017 the challenge was to coast down the hill with an electric STEM Cycle whose batteries are initially depleted. Using regen braking, charge the batteries while coasting. The course was approximately 500 feet long. Once you got to the finish like, the driver could select electric drive and back up as far as the batteries would enable. Our high school STEM Cycle has a 48V 25A hub motor with regen controller. Our driver was able to back up 373 feet to win the event. I don't know the efficiency percentage here. Our battery pack consisted of 7 Nissan Leaf dual 4.2 volt cells in series. Thought you might enjoy this unique application of regenerative braking. Enjoyed the video, bought your E-book via Amazon so we could learn more in regard to applications of the smaller 18650 batteries in our STEM education. Best regards, Barry
A long winded video to explain that regenerative braking is impracticable and not worth the extra expense. It's mass time speed and around 50 stops in 20 miles might reach 5%. However, if you are going up and down long hills, that all changes, If you go up a mountain and down a mountain, 50% of the distance down, at 50% efficiency would add up to a 25% efficiency. The only way it could reach 50% is if it was all downhill, from the start. To look at it another way. For every mile downhill, you might gain 1/2 a mile in range. Correct me if this is incorrect.
Efficiency of regenerative braking is an interesting question - it's certainly possible to make regenerative braking more efficient, but to do so you basically rely on reducing drag: since drag is (as I'm sure you're aware) proportionate to the square of speed, you can get much better efficiency by travelling very slowly. Going downhill at very low speed and basically converting your GPE directly to chemical energy in the battery, then slowly converting it back, will reduce drag a lot... but isn't much use in the real world since the point of an eBike is to travel at a decent speed
@Stephen Morton Well said! Not to mention having to replace disc brake pads much seldom! I was considering putting high capacity caps in parallel with the battery, to store power with much less resistance then with the full battery and enable quick boost when accelerating again. Worth a shot?
@Stephen Morton Thanks, makes sense. I was thinking of using Trinket for hooking up the brake switch and a transistor to charge the capacitors when braking. But looking at the bus system schematic would definitely come in handy. btw, I use my pas ebike for a 40mile round trip commute and definitely less lazy then taking the public transport or a car but still doable every day unlike normal cycles :) 1000 miles every month!
I always prefer the option of whether to lock brakes or not. ABS in my first auto caused accident. ABSWill lock up and slide and you can’t control it. It doesn’t take in changing substrates you may encounter. I started sliding through intersection when tires touched painted lines iof sidewalk crossing. I would have let off brakes on first line and stopped before secound
Regen can really put a strain on the drop outs. (Given a hub motor ) Imagine doing 40 miles an our and suddenly you touch the brake just enough to activate regen the slow down is like going from third gear to first gear depending on settings. This reverse torque will eventually round out the rectangular dropout into a round drop out despite the crappy torque arms recommended. I have two torque arms on each side and still a problem!
May have raised as many questions as you answered. I'm in the market for my 1st ebike so I'm reading and watching lots of reviews/how to/informational videos. 1) In the vid you mentioned connecting regen wires to the e brake so does that mean you can coast without resistance if you don't apply the breaks? 2) True or false, I thought I seen a vid that said a direct drive hub motor will will always have rolling resistance whether its regen or not. 3) You mentioned how inefficient regen braking is which is what I suspected. So my thought is that with regen you cannot simply coast because as soon as you let off the throttle the motor is stopping you thus forcing inefficient jackrabbit stop and start driving as you would have to stay on the throttle until you wish to stop. 4) So my next thought is that coasting especially if you have a good coaster and decreasing rolling resistance with better bearings and high pressure tires will get me more mileage than regen ever could. Coasting more would also be less stressful on the motor and other components, all around less wear and tear.
I can't decide between a DIY gas bike, or a DIY E-bike! I think I want to do an e-bike, for reliability, but I'm worried about range, and how they handle below 0 degrees F weather... also, I'm a novice, in batteries and electronics, but your channel is helping A LOT! Thanks!
I built two ebikes and i had no DIY experience. My desire to build it was high. For simplicity you can buy a battery at em3ev.com/. No soldering. Also, ebikes work down to -20 Celcius. HOWEVER, they need to be recharged above 0 celcius
thanks for your input! i guess i just cant afford an e bike build, ill have to start with a 4 stroke gas bike, i have more experience with that type, anyways. Thanks!
Cold will drastically lower the charge you get out of a lithium ion battery, and NEVER charge a cold battery. You should always charge at room temperature if possible, but 100% for sure above 0 Celcius (32 Fahrenheit for those that are dumb). Discharging a cold battery is completely fine, but like I said, you'll get a drastically reduced range.
Very informative, I wondered about the efficiency of regenerative brakes on ebikes, 8 percent seems very little if you rely entirely on electricity to ride that bike. I guess the prices for that technology doesn't compensate the price (about twice as much). Thanks again, nice video.
You can regen with mid-drive, it just has to be directly connected to the drivetrain like a motorcycle, you can do that with one of the jackshaft kits for motorized bicycles and a swap from a freewheel hub to a fixed hub.
All batteries have a maximum C rating for charge and discharge, usually a lot longer to charge. All riders know breaking is almost always a faster change in speed than accelerating forward so all this energy if sent to the battery would damage said battery. The controller must limit the current causing large losses in efficiency, we must still rely on friction breaks. Also I cannot agree with the comparison to cars weight, or vehicle less than load, they are technically each a mass in motion, where the challenge is recovering and storing that energy. This video is well done and informative.
Big thank you Micah for this video! Even though this video is nearly 3 years old the info is still pertinent. I just bought a Wallke X3 Pro that has "W-PAS" regen braking and I live on top of a hill. I'm only a few hours from Pittsburgh so you know how the land is around here. It's been in the back of my mind since purchasing the bike about how it may not be safe to charge to 100% and use regen as I leave for a ride. You confirmed my suspicion in this video, Thank you!
Maybe try to implement some type of fast charger for your phone on that e-bike, so you pump your phone and discharge your battery to around 95% before you leave the hill before you pump the battery any further. Also I'm pretty sure there could be a feature implemented in ESC that could sense when battery is full and then just short the motor wires so it uses its own backwards EMF.
Supercapacitors allow a much higher percentage of regenerative braking power to be captured, batteries aren't good when a sudden high amp charge is applied, supercapacitors have the ability to take a high amperage charge as well as push out high amps.
If you don't have a regen controller it may still be possible to add resistive braking. It saves a lot of caliper brake pads on my old bike here in a very hilly place. I have 3x 1 ohm 50watt resistors in star connection across the motor leads via a big two pole pushbutton on the handlebars. Also included a 20w lightbulb to use some of that free power. Brake pads are not expensive but my time is valuable.
I live in top of the mountain and write down 1500' The biggest problem is your hand gets tired from home the break on the whole time ordering the descent. But it's done all the information presented it seems like the best solution would be an idler wheel on the tire of this page the energy
It seems super caps are better suited to capture the energy from regenerative braking due to their speed in charging relative to batteries. Your 5% average return on power is low, especially if you account for the wattage added with pedaling. Maybe regen braking requires extremely fast power storage for optimal efficiency? A super cap/lithium battery hybrid system would obviously add complexity and take a little engineering (easy for me to say).
I ve seen people use dedicated generator on one wheel, on an e tricycle set, it is clutch activated permanent magnets rotor, for long distance traveling, in the case of long ramp down.
If you live on top of a hill, you don't have to charge your %100 battery when regen braking. The generated energy can be spent on a resistor. You don't necessarily have to charge battery. This can be implemented easily.
On my Electric Daihatsu Mira, the variable regen function built into the clutch pedal was responsible for 27% of my range. Used to get 80 to 90 km with the 8.5kWh LifeTech pack. Worlds most efficient electric vehicle conversion.
I think your videos are amazing. I love that your answers are entirely comprehensive and effectively cover every angle and color in all corners of whatever subject your discussing. I really enjoy watching you and I also have a questio on for you: I have been to been to tinkering and fixing my ebike for about the last 5 years or so. It's the first- but not only³7⁷ I've ever owned and I bought it used. it's a Motorino Xpr (discontinued) and I love it.ive recently taken a few deeper dives into repair and modification by switching out the whole back tire and motor (break assembly... etc ) with that of a Daymak Eagle's. That was fine. But now I am attempting to replace the controller with one that to has considerably more power because I have also added another 12v battery to the series last time I replaced them... making it a 72 v bike. In doing so I HAVE ENCOUNTERED THE WIERDEST THING... wierd because- as with every other new "thing" about ebike mechanics that I come across I consult UA-cam videos (like those you make) for some clarification. but with this item I cannot find any single video, blog or even comment or question about it. here it is & I hope you know what I'm describing and can offer me some Info about an it and tell me if I need to connect it to something or what ( oh yeah I foolishly forgot to take a picture of where the wires that used to run to it came from and what wires they were-... I know!) **It's a small metal box that looks like a "mini- me" of my original controller and says "60v DC - 12vDC" OR or something basically like that and only a single set of 3 wires go into ( or are they coming out of?!?!...hmmmm) this little mystery box. my guess is something to do with lights but what is it and -whatever function it has: why wouldn't it just be done in the controller like everything else? any help would be so appreciated. Thanks All my best, & please keep up the great work! big fan!! Christian Hagen Toronto, Canada
The bms on my battery is separate port and if I try to feed power back into the discharge, the bms disconnects discharge until charge is received through charge port wires. Check to make sure your battery bms doesn't have this function before trying this. Bypassing the separate port issues may be possible with diodes to control power direction on the ports or change battery bms.
Same! Did you ever find a solution? I have a liitokala 13s2p 48v battery with kt controller on my friction drive escooter. Thinking about replacing the bms. Any suggestions? Would rather not have to rip my battery apart!
@@Baddiework sadly, it seems that replacing the BMS is the best option if you really want regen braking to work with the battery. For me, I decided against adding regen braking. Here's why: Most people (myself included) choose an ebike for simplicity and low cost. When you make an ebike more complicated it can make repairs more difficult. The more you add to the bike, the more expensive it gets. I try to keep in mind that if the bike gets too expensive it will be more likely to get stolen. Regen braking seems to work better when brakes are used at high speeds. I don't use my brakes enough at high speeds. The cost to benefit ratio didn't add up in favor of regen braking for me. Why fix it if it's not broken. I'll save the troublesome aspects of regen braking for electric car manufacturers and try to keep my bike simple and inexpensive. Good luck whatever you decide
@@chrisl9067 appreciate you sir! The thing is on my escooter conversion (Xootr roma) I only have the front friction brake and would like the back friction drive motor to provide some additional braking for safety reasons and this is pretty much the only option. I already have the switches/controller/display and everything setup and looking v good. It only weighs about 9.5kg but gets up to 30+mph. Dangerous yes, fun absolutely. Now I’ve determined the only option is to build my own 13s2p pack with a common port 30amp bms and Vruzend kit to put it together. Now the question I really need answering is will the batteries handle this? The bms does 15amp charge. I am looking at Samsung 30q cells with a fast charge rating of 4amp. So x2 (parallel) is 8amp safe charge rate do I need to go for different cells? I am worried about dendrites eventually forming years down the line and a fire breaking out. I always want to plug it in overnight without supervision. Any help much appreciated! Also wondering if I can just put the same standard plug charge connector on the common port bms parallel with the discharge deans connector without an issue so I don’t have to take the whole thing apart when I charge.I would like to use the same 2amp charger I already have for the Liitokala pack.The bms should take care of the rest IMO. I always bring mine inside btw since it’s a small scooter and it’s just meant to make my 25min walk to work a 5min blast! Worth the cost lol.
@@Baddiework I think you can use the motor brake without sending power back to the battery. You could try talking to an electronics expert like Greatscott! or better if you know someone who works with electronics. They might be able to add additional diodes to the litokala battery wires. I didn't have luck with that, I would've probably had to mail the battery back and forth ($$). Keep in mind that common port BMS is less efficient than separate port and that's why they put separate port on the battery to begin with. If you change the BMS you might be able to sell the old one. Other suggestion: deploy a parachute for braking 😁jk.
I think regenerative braking is more suitable in places with disnivelated terrain and not for plain surfaces. Here in misiones it could be a little more useful because of the topography.
Regen really shines on hilly places in the mountains. That way you can use a small battery pack and basically use it like a hill assist not a motorcycle... The problem is most people are happy to fligh down the other side of the hill at 40mph but wind resistance is the square of velocity! so a person flying down the other side of the Hill at 40mph instead of going full regen and going 10mph is losing 90%of the energy where if they regend it they'd lose about 40% to inefficiencies in the motor and batterys. What the OP is missing is people are not as aerodynamic as a car even if they are lighter. So regen isn't so much about stopping and starting it is about storing the extra energy instead of wasting it in aerodynamic losses of increased speeds
How about "dynamic braking" as used in diesel-electric and some electric locomotives? Specifically for a tandem with a heavy trailer to control downhill speed. Some tandems have drag brakes for this function, typically a drum brake designed to provide drag, but not enough braking force to provide reasonable stopping distances. Dynamic brakes work by sending the current generated by the motor(s) into a resistor network (typically fan cooled on locomotives).
The point of regen braking isn't for battery recharge reasons at all. I like using it as a secondary brake because the hub motor replaced my front disc brake.
Funny, that odd situation you outlined exactly described MY situation. I live in San Francisco! Anyway, this video pretty much answered that question. Needless to say, if I am starting out on top of a long line of down hill trojectories it means whenever I return I have to climb all the way home. So I wanted to look into this topic as a possible way to help myself home. Thank you for answering that question, because what I wondered was how starting off fully charged, going downhill for a pretty good ways initially, would effect the the system. Imagine if you hadn't laid that one exception out like you did, I would still be ignorant in a bad way.
I would love to have an ebike with regenerative braking that activates when I back-pedal, just like on the Huffy I had as a kid; going downhill and slowing down could be all regen without engaging disc brakes. Grabbing a brake lever would engage the disc brakes AND regenerative braking.
Thanks for the info mate, I am desperately looking for this answer for my upcoming project work. This has really helped me to start my work. Need more videos from you.
I live and cycle in the mountains and hills of France. It seems odd to me that (if I get home again), I descend as much as I climb and surely all of those descents could be used to top up the battery. All the videos I have watched seem to talk about cycling around town on the flat. Big market here, surely as we typically climb and descend about 1000 metres for every 75kms.
Micah, you should release on new video on regen citing Grin's research, bikes on the market that offer regen and discuss the only real benefit- saving brake wear for ebike commuters. Also, a minor critique- you are discussing efficency when I believe you mean effectiveness. Regen braking is always as efficent as the motor, no matter how much regen power is provided (effectiveness).
You have to think a bit like a performance hybrid driver. Power up a hill (throttle) reaching peak speed just before the crest, then regen down - but use the 'engine' (your legs) to recharge through the regen. You will lose speed going down hill, offset some by the Work done by your legs, putting a lot more Watts back into the battery. It's counterintuitive, as most people want to ride like a uhaul truck.... gain speed downhill and lose speed uphill. But like you say, that doesnt work when you're lightweight, like an ebike or perf hybrid. Do the opposite and you'll get better results.
I ran into the BMS issue with a Golden DD. It had regen when I used a 36v Lifepo from China. I got a 48v Shark and no regen. The regen made for a nice amount of braking. On a basic build the brakes may be a weak point, so I'd say the regen is a big plus. Starting on a hill I guess it would help to know the amount of charge. Subtract that from a full charge and then stop the charging a bit below that amount. Can't do it on most chargers. I suppose a fully integrated DIY industry would look at different motors, BMS boards, chargers, etc and configure specific systems. Thanks for all the links. I noticed a couple of the links aren't working.
The case of regen while riding off a hill with a full battery... So regen would basically slow down a motor by using it as a generator.... What about driving the motor backwards, thereby using enough battery power to balance out the power gained by regen braking?
Hi Josh! I'm in the mountains of Kootenays, BC, and what I like about my Grin regen is the GMac geared rear hub motor gears down and helps a lot slowing me down on big hills. My bike has been NOT RUNNING for 3 mos and I have narrowed it down to the regen switch sticking, or somehow cutting off the motor until I power it OFF, then start again, but every time I BRAKE the same thing happens. It also OVER-BRAKES 'electronically' (I think) at times. I'm going to replace the levers and see if that fixes it. I already replaced the controller, and the battery. I'll check back after I fix it.
I don't understand completly because I'm from colombia south america, but your videos are great I have an damage scooter I changed the hub motor but now I think also the problem is the controller.
Hey Micah do you think you could make a video about the cycle analyst?Basically how to get the most power out of the cycle analyst along with your controller.How do you make them talk to each other and get everything your bike can output.
I was wondering about this, so a search yielded this video and the answer. My hub motor is the smaller geared type. So now I know to buy disk brake pads for downhill. Thanks Micah.
Second question: how can the battery be overcharged with a 100 percent charged battery going down a long decline? I always assumed that part of the purpose of a motor/charge controller is to not only to control battery drain but control and prevent overcharging??
Hey, loved this video. I have been asking this question and never got a good answer until I watched your video. Great info and very well delivered. Thank You
Yeaahh.. FANTASTIC video!! You even mentioned that very specific scenario riding a fully charged battery downhill... haha... it's hard to pack all that information in one video, you managed to cover a LOT and I'm sure lots of people will ask even more questions and second video will be up soon haha Next video mention about the powerful direct drive mid drive with regen (I sent some links on your Facebook post) Maybe just quickly mention about bigger bikes like Stealth Bomber, LMX, custom DIY Raptor/Vector and maybe even mention Zero & Alta motorcycles (people can do a Google search on these names for more info). Well done mate... you're pumping some AWESOME content!!! Congrats =]
I want to know more about the braking ability than the regenerative part. Th 5% regeneration would be enough for some kind of lights system by the sounds of it.
i subscribe because i love the way you explain ebikes before i buy them and you allways with a smile to explain things and to answer question thank you so much
Can you explain and make video on how to integrate throttle on pedelec. I mean how to switch from pedal assist to "on demand assist" using throttle? Thanks
My guess is that the return on regen just doesn't justify the cost. Would it be nice in a cost is no object scenario? Maybe, but cost is ALWAYS an object for most of us. I could maybe see it on a loaded up touring bike used in mountainous areas, where the brake saving benefits start to matter.
I have a gearless mid drive motor hooked up to a kelly controller and I have yet to wire in a variable thumb throttle I know this works as I'm following someone else who's done it so you can use a middrive motor but beware I read that your frame mounts to mid motor must be good as it's a lot of pressure on the frame I'm going to weld an extra mount onto my progect befor I wire up. Exited as I also read its that good I barley need a rear brake at all
Hi Thks Mike, Enjoyed your many videos, very impressed with your good explanations n in-depth knowledge ! This one too, especially on the types of motor that can support regen. charging. One good point was that a restraining torque arm may be needed to prevent axile nuts working loose! With only a few % power recovery on av usage, agree that it is not worthwhile for the extra cost n complexity! In fact, as a frequent ebike user, I enjoy a little pedalling on the way, which might achieve much more than the regen braking, n give me some helpful exercise!
Thank for your regenerating break talk! Q: how CAN I Control the breaking Force? Is three s control build for that? I am living in Switzerland with many hills! Robert
Another great and VERY informative video. I really learn so much from your videos and getting a notification that you put one out, is like Christmas morning and getting presents. haha I didn't think regen braking would be too big a benefit unless you lived in the rocky mountains or maybe a cargo type ebike where you're hauling heavier loads, but like you said, every little bit adds up and a few % here and there starts to add up over time. It reminds me of one of the things that my father told me about managing money when I was a boy, he said "Mind your pennies and your dollars take care of themselves". I think if I were to use regen braking a lot, it might be nice to have a charge port or two for maybe a flashlight, cell phone, or even one of those portable battery banks to charge cell phones on the go, and then that would act like a load bank of sorts if you really could get THAT much out of braking. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for the clear explanation. So regen not worth it on a bike. I've been thinking about a different idea -- I don't know what it's called but the concept is something like engine braking in trucks. Let's say that for downhills, I could set a maximum speed that I would like my bike to go at -- let's say 15 mph. All the extra energy that would have me going at say 30 mph on a downhill is then captured and fed back to my battery -- without using the brakes. This would be very useful in hilly areas. The energy being fed back would also have a nice steady fairly flat curve, as opposed to the intermittency of regen braking. Does such a system already exist? If not, could you imagine how to implement it?
yes and no. If you happen to regenerate more than the battery can take it may affect your battery life. However, like he said regen is really small increase in battery juice for bicycle, for normal use the negative effect on your battery is almost insignificant. With that says, don't worry too much about it, just go out there and enjoy your ebike
Instead of breaking if you had a rear drive motor would it be possible and worthwhile to put a device on the front wheel that would help recharge your battery?
Hello, I think I have a good question... is it possible to add only electric brake without it being regenerative? I think so, it would have to be achieved in a diy plan, a way to connect the phases of the motor all together and at the same time that they are disconnected from the controller so as not to make a short circuit, because if you join the phases of the motor, it offers resistance or it brakes a lot even depends on the motor that it is, from my experience, the more amps the motor holds, the more it will brake, maybe connecting relays in parallel in each phase and then another relay that connects the 3 phases when pressing a momentary button, brake the engine and work, what do you think? Thank you
I am planning to do a generative pedaling(also includes regenerative braking in it) instead of regenerative braking! I think that way you will get a good work out if you want and charge the battery a lot more than 5 percent. let me know what you think of this. thanks.
Hi, I have a question. I have an ebike and just recently changed the hub motor and controller to 72v 1500w specs. My batteries are 72v 10ah. I want more top end speed out of it. As I have experimented I understand that volts determine the torque but if I change my batteries to 72v 30ah it should give me more distance. But would this also increase my top end speed? Or will it only just give me better range? Oh I just checked. What I actually need is how to increase amps on my batteries. Now I understand that amps and amp hours are different things
you need powerful controller, or modifie your controller to give more amps to your motor. higher voltage does not anything to your acceleration, just give you more top speed. you need more amps from controller, not amps/h from battery.
I thought that the BMS on the battery bank would prevent over charging. So even if you were on a hill it would not increase the voltage beyond its 100% state of charge. You would not benefit from the hill, but it should not damage your battery.
I put flyers out on a gas scooter all I do is speed up to 10 mph then stop 1000 times in 4 hours. I think regenerative braking would work great only thing I'm worried about is if it can hold up to the duration and punishment
The man walking by at 0:48 never knew he was walking directly behind greatness, haha! But seriously, thanks for all of this info Micah. You are the man!
Well... The main issue as to why I want regen braking is to slow the bike down slowly without using brakes kinda like the jake brakes on the semi-truck.
i really want to turn my mountain bike into a sur ron. i like the regen option because if you downhill its so easy to lock up your rear with breaks but regen works more and more the faster it spins so you can maintain a very good decrease in speed while maintain lots of trusty traction as it will have a great skid to traction ratio. i could care less about recouping energy its just skid control for me. my problem is im just diving into this research and looking to make a great track bike.... where my question comes in is can rear hubs perform well off-road and i cant see why a toggle switch wouldnt work. you lock it on and when your not requesting demand the breaking will activate such as programmed setting level. like my tesla i can get up to speed if i want to coast i need to let up on accelerator a little creating a flat. or if i let up to much it will create a negative and have a variable regen based on throttle position.... am i wrong? and maybe is there a list of people that can provide such products that i can assemble a great downhill bike?
I have chinse 350w controller, and i have a problem-my regenrative braking is always works in the direction of the diving. How do i reverse the braking system without reversing the motor?
Thank you again. I live in an area north of Pittsburgh and its mostly up or down not to much level ground around here. Im planing on a tadpole recumbent build from scratch and would like to go electric. I will be buying your books soon. I have several plans for trike from atomic zombies. Ive built other gas powered bikes but engine vibration noise etc do make them less desirable. I would love to impliment some flexable solar panels onto a bob type trailer to carry trip gear as well as spare battery in charge.
My ebike controller does have a 2 pin connector that's not connected to anything but short circuit without knowing what exactly does is not adviced, the Chinese company that I've bought my ebike don't think they going to help me as the seller doesn't know many technical specs that I've asked him - I've found that the controller is programmable, still doing reverse engineer/testing to find out what I can program
Would using separate super capacitors be a good idea to utilize regenerative braking? Thinking it would save more discharge on the main battery when used to accelerate again.
I saw somewhere dudes adding supercapacitors to electric bikes with lithium battery, but it was quite unfriendly with a Li-Ion battery, as it would often demand or push back a lot of amps into it, which made it heat up often. There could be a solution with ESC controllers or some type of circuit controling the output (not to discharge or charge the battery with high currents), I'm sure of it.
I was just wondering about this same topic on one of my commutes last week and as I live on top of a hill, I can see how I could sometimes run into the overcharging scenario.
Hello, my controller has the regen brake feature, however, it has two low voltage brake connectors, one has a yellow and black wire while the other connector has only a purple wire . My question is which would I use and why ? Thanks..
Thanks for the informative video. Can it not feel strange with just have an on off electric break. Would not a progressive break better? It a big difference breaking force in a downhill compared stopping at a red light.
got good knowledge about the possibility of regenerative system installation in e-bike, and my question is that if we want to track how much energy is generated from the regenerative system how to design such system and log the data.
Great video! I don't mean to nitpick, but using the term "efficiency" to describe the amount of energy being recovered is misleading in this context. The regen efficiency should be the flip side of the motor's "efficiency" in converting battery energy into distance traveled. Efficiency in the regen context should be the amount of energy recovered per unit of distance traveled. Your use of the word "efficiency" in percent units might be better stated as "amount of range extension" of the distance traveled. I know this is not a big deal, but it helps people to truly understand and analyze their own regen data. Also, I like the extra focus on saving wear and tear on the bike's braking hardware, plus the added 'good feeling' of electric braking! I've enjoyed both of your books so far, and am experimenting with your new weld-less battery assembly kit -- thanks for your significant contribution to eTraveling!
Hi Micah, I'm loving your videos up to now and I'm just about to order both of your books on amazon! I'm curious about where you think the e-bike world is going from here. I'm seeing more and more cool companies rising up and coming out with amazing products. I know you must have a good scope on the evolution of e-bikes, curious about your take and where is started, where it is now and where it's going. Thanks for the great videos, keep them coming!
Hey I'm building a hybrid gas minibike with electric hub motor on the front and a 125cc powering the rear. From what you were saying I should be able to deplete the batteries driving threw town and charge them driving on the trail gas powered. But I'll need a charge controller built in. My question is will a controller handle being on regen for extended times or should I build a separate/independent relayed circuit with charge controller built in?
One thing not mentioned in this video is the fact that it saves brake discs. That is my favourite thing about regenerative braking.
given the cost of a set of pads (like 5 bucks) and a new dis (like how often? at $16) its going to take a few years to make that worth the cost of just changing pads (not even factoring in all the time for fitting it) ... however in VERY RARE situations on super long down hills on super steep mountain roads it may help prevent brake over heating.
Henno Marais Thanks Yes Amen
So your favourite thing is not the most useful thing witch is actually charging the battery
I really need this. Iv got crazy hills and I'm burning thru pads and discs
@@finophile why is cost a factor? He likes that it helps save them.... Pointless comment
Seattle, SanFrancisco: these are the cities for regenerative breaking! especially with cargo. I want it just to save my break pads.
Great video. Apart from saving brake pads: It's great for heavy cargo in the mountains/hills. Then the return is much higher than just stop and go. It's rather: It would be stupid not making use of the hard gained potential energy. The overcharging note is a good reminder and could be prevented with some additional overcharge protection which disables regen when the battery voltage is to high.
when using pulsed dc coils, you get inductive spikes, these carry a lot of energy that can be restored into the battery. to do so the esc needs to have fast switching mosfets.
Each year the Google Gravity Games have an Engineering Challenge class. In 2017 the challenge was to coast down the hill with an electric STEM Cycle whose batteries are initially depleted. Using regen braking, charge the batteries while coasting. The course was approximately 500 feet long. Once you got to the finish like, the driver could select electric drive and back up as far as the batteries would enable. Our high school STEM Cycle has a 48V 25A hub motor with regen controller. Our driver was able to back up 373 feet to win the event. I don't know the efficiency percentage here. Our battery pack consisted of 7 Nissan Leaf dual 4.2 volt cells in series. Thought you might enjoy this unique application of regenerative braking. Enjoyed the video, bought your E-book via Amazon so we could learn more in regard to applications of the smaller 18650 batteries in our STEM education. Best regards, Barry
A long winded video to explain that regenerative braking is impracticable and not worth the extra expense. It's mass time speed and around 50 stops in 20 miles might reach 5%. However, if you are going up and down long hills, that all changes, If you go up a mountain and down a mountain, 50% of the distance down, at 50% efficiency would add up to a 25% efficiency. The only way it could reach 50% is if it was all downhill, from the start. To look at it another way. For every mile downhill, you might gain 1/2 a mile in range. Correct me if this is incorrect.
Efficiency of regenerative braking is an interesting question - it's certainly possible to make regenerative braking more efficient, but to do so you basically rely on reducing drag: since drag is (as I'm sure you're aware) proportionate to the square of speed, you can get much better efficiency by travelling very slowly. Going downhill at very low speed and basically converting your GPE directly to chemical energy in the battery, then slowly converting it back, will reduce drag a lot... but isn't much use in the real world since the point of an eBike is to travel at a decent speed
@Stephen Morton Well said! Not to mention having to replace disc brake pads much seldom! I was considering putting high capacity caps in parallel with the battery, to store power with much less resistance then with the full battery and enable quick boost when accelerating again. Worth a shot?
@Stephen Morton Thanks, makes sense. I was thinking of using Trinket for hooking up the brake switch and a transistor to charge the capacitors when braking. But looking at the bus system schematic would definitely come in handy. btw, I use my pas ebike for a 40mile round trip commute and definitely less lazy then taking the public transport or a car but still doable every day unlike normal cycles :) 1000 miles every month!
I like using Regen. It saves wear and tear on my brake pads and also prevents brake lock up, kinda like (ABS)
I always prefer the option of whether to lock brakes or not. ABS in my first auto caused accident. ABSWill lock up and slide and you can’t control it. It doesn’t take in changing substrates you may encounter. I started sliding through intersection when tires touched painted lines iof sidewalk crossing. I would have let off brakes on first line and stopped before secound
Now I always disconnectABS systems!
Regen can really put a strain on the drop outs. (Given a hub motor ) Imagine doing 40 miles an our and suddenly you touch the brake just enough to activate regen the slow down is like going from third gear to first gear depending on settings. This reverse torque will eventually round out the rectangular dropout into a round drop out despite the crappy torque arms recommended. I have two torque arms on each side and still a problem!
May have raised as many questions as you answered. I'm in the market for my 1st ebike so I'm reading and watching lots of reviews/how to/informational videos.
1) In the vid you mentioned connecting regen wires to the e brake so does that mean you can coast without resistance if you don't apply the breaks?
2) True or false, I thought I seen a vid that said a direct drive hub motor will will always have rolling resistance whether its regen or not.
3) You mentioned how inefficient regen braking is which is what I suspected. So my thought is that with regen you cannot simply coast because as soon as you let off the throttle the motor is stopping you thus forcing inefficient jackrabbit stop and start driving as you would have to stay on the throttle until you wish to stop.
4) So my next thought is that coasting especially if you have a good coaster and decreasing rolling resistance with better bearings and high pressure tires will get me more mileage than regen ever could. Coasting more would also be less stressful on the motor and other components, all around less wear and tear.
These are good questions and need to be answered, especially if the name of this channel is eBikeSchool.
I can't decide between a DIY gas bike, or a DIY E-bike! I think I want to do an e-bike, for reliability, but I'm worried about range, and how they handle below 0 degrees F weather... also, I'm a novice, in batteries and electronics, but your channel is helping A LOT! Thanks!
I built two ebikes and i had no DIY experience. My desire to build it was high.
For simplicity you can buy a battery at em3ev.com/. No soldering.
Also, ebikes work down to -20 Celcius. HOWEVER, they need to be recharged above 0 celcius
thanks for your input! i guess i just cant afford an e bike build, ill have to start with a 4 stroke gas bike, i have more experience with that type, anyways. Thanks!
Cold will drastically lower the charge you get out of a lithium ion battery, and NEVER charge a cold battery. You should always charge at room temperature if possible, but 100% for sure above 0 Celcius (32 Fahrenheit for those that are dumb). Discharging a cold battery is completely fine, but like I said, you'll get a drastically reduced range.
Very informative, I wondered about the efficiency of regenerative brakes on ebikes, 8 percent seems very little if you rely entirely on electricity to ride that bike. I guess the prices for that technology doesn't compensate the price (about twice as much). Thanks again, nice video.
You can regen with mid-drive, it just has to be directly connected to the drivetrain like a motorcycle, you can do that with one of the jackshaft kits for motorized bicycles and a swap from a freewheel hub to a fixed hub.
All batteries have a maximum C rating for charge and discharge, usually a lot longer to charge. All riders know breaking is almost always a faster change in speed than accelerating forward so all this energy if sent to the battery would damage said battery. The controller must limit the current causing large losses in efficiency, we must still rely on friction breaks. Also I cannot agree with the comparison to cars weight, or vehicle less than load, they are technically each a mass in motion, where the challenge is recovering and storing that energy. This video is well done and informative.
Big thank you Micah for this video! Even though this video is nearly 3 years old the info is still pertinent. I just bought a Wallke X3 Pro that has "W-PAS" regen braking and I live on top of a hill. I'm only a few hours from Pittsburgh so you know how the land is around here. It's been in the back of my mind since purchasing the bike about how it may not be safe to charge to 100% and use regen as I leave for a ride. You confirmed my suspicion in this video, Thank you!
Maybe try to implement some type of fast charger for your phone on that e-bike, so you pump your phone and discharge your battery to around 95% before you leave the hill before you pump the battery any further. Also I'm pretty sure there could be a feature implemented in ESC that could sense when battery is full and then just short the motor wires so it uses its own backwards EMF.
Supercapacitors allow a much higher percentage of regenerative braking power to be captured, batteries aren't good when a sudden high amp charge is applied, supercapacitors have the ability to take a high amperage charge as well as push out high amps.
If you don't have a regen controller it may still be possible to add resistive braking. It saves a lot of caliper brake pads on my old bike here in a very hilly place. I have 3x 1 ohm 50watt resistors in star connection across the motor leads via a big two pole pushbutton on the handlebars. Also included a 20w lightbulb to use some of that free power. Brake pads are not expensive but my time is valuable.
Regen braking is good for saving your brake :)
I live in top of the mountain and write down 1500' The biggest problem is your hand gets tired from home the break on the whole time ordering the descent. But it's done all the information presented it seems like the best solution would be an idler wheel on the tire of this page the energy
It seems super caps are better suited to capture the energy from regenerative braking due to their speed in charging relative to batteries. Your 5% average return on power is low, especially if you account for the wattage added with pedaling. Maybe regen braking requires extremely fast power storage for optimal efficiency? A super cap/lithium battery hybrid system would obviously add complexity and take a little engineering (easy for me to say).
I ve seen people use dedicated generator on one wheel, on an e tricycle set, it is clutch activated permanent magnets rotor, for long distance traveling, in the case of long ramp down.
If you live on top of a hill, you don't have to charge your %100 battery when regen braking. The generated energy can be spent on a resistor. You don't necessarily have to charge battery. This can be implemented easily.
On my Electric Daihatsu Mira, the variable regen function built into the clutch pedal was responsible for 27% of my range.
Used to get 80 to 90 km with the 8.5kWh LifeTech pack. Worlds most efficient electric vehicle conversion.
That's incredible!
I think your videos are amazing. I love that your answers are entirely comprehensive and effectively cover every angle and color in all corners of whatever subject your discussing. I really enjoy watching you and I also have a questio on for you: I have been to been to tinkering and fixing my ebike for about the last 5 years or so. It's the first- but not only³7⁷ I've ever owned and I bought it used. it's a Motorino Xpr (discontinued) and I love it.ive recently taken a few deeper dives into repair and modification by switching out the whole back tire and motor (break assembly... etc ) with that of a Daymak Eagle's. That was fine. But now I am attempting to replace the controller with one that to has considerably more power because I have also added another 12v battery to the series last time I replaced them... making it a 72 v bike.
In doing so I HAVE ENCOUNTERED THE WIERDEST THING... wierd because- as with every other new "thing" about ebike mechanics that I come across I consult UA-cam videos (like those you make) for some clarification. but with this item I cannot find any single video, blog or even comment or question about it. here it is & I hope you know what I'm describing and can offer me some Info about an it and tell me if I need to connect it to something or what ( oh yeah I foolishly forgot to take a picture of where the wires that used to run to it came from and what wires they were-... I know!)
**It's a small metal box that looks like a "mini- me" of my original controller and says "60v DC - 12vDC" OR or something basically like that and only a single set of 3 wires go into ( or are they coming out of?!?!...hmmmm) this little mystery box. my guess is something to do with lights but what is it and -whatever function it has: why wouldn't it just be done in the controller like everything else?
any help would be so appreciated. Thanks
All my best,
& please keep up the great work!
big fan!!
Christian Hagen
Toronto, Canada
The bms on my battery is separate port and if I try to feed power back into the discharge, the bms disconnects discharge until charge is received through charge port wires. Check to make sure your battery bms doesn't have this function before trying this. Bypassing the separate port issues may be possible with diodes to control power direction on the ports or change battery bms.
Same! Did you ever find a solution? I have a liitokala 13s2p 48v battery with kt controller on my friction drive escooter. Thinking about replacing the bms. Any suggestions? Would rather not have to rip my battery apart!
@@Baddiework sadly, it seems that replacing the BMS is the best option if you really want regen braking to work with the battery. For me, I decided against adding regen braking. Here's why: Most people (myself included) choose an ebike for simplicity and low cost. When you make an ebike more complicated it can make repairs more difficult. The more you add to the bike, the more expensive it gets. I try to keep in mind that if the bike gets too expensive it will be more likely to get stolen. Regen braking seems to work better when brakes are used at high speeds. I don't use my brakes enough at high speeds. The cost to benefit ratio didn't add up in favor of regen braking for me. Why fix it if it's not broken. I'll save the troublesome aspects of regen braking for electric car manufacturers and try to keep my bike simple and inexpensive. Good luck whatever you decide
@@chrisl9067 appreciate you sir! The thing is on my escooter conversion (Xootr roma) I only have the front friction brake and would like the back friction drive motor to provide some additional braking for safety reasons and this is pretty much the only option. I already have the switches/controller/display and everything setup and looking v good. It only weighs about 9.5kg but gets up to 30+mph. Dangerous yes, fun absolutely. Now I’ve determined the only option is to build my own 13s2p pack with a common port 30amp bms and Vruzend kit to put it together. Now the question I really need answering is will the batteries handle this? The bms does 15amp charge. I am looking at Samsung 30q cells with a fast charge rating of 4amp. So x2 (parallel) is 8amp safe charge rate do I need to go for different cells? I am worried about dendrites eventually forming years down the line and a fire breaking out. I always want to plug it in overnight without supervision. Any help much appreciated! Also wondering if I can just put the same standard plug charge connector on the common port bms parallel with the discharge deans connector without an issue so I don’t have to take the whole thing apart when I charge.I would like to use the same 2amp charger I already have for the Liitokala pack.The bms should take care of the rest IMO. I always bring mine inside btw since it’s a small scooter and it’s just meant to make my 25min walk to work a 5min blast! Worth the cost lol.
@@Baddiework I think you can use the motor brake without sending power back to the battery. You could try talking to an electronics expert like Greatscott! or better if you know someone who works with electronics. They might be able to add additional diodes to the litokala battery wires. I didn't have luck with that, I would've probably had to mail the battery back and forth ($$). Keep in mind that common port BMS is less efficient than separate port and that's why they put separate port on the battery to begin with. If you change the BMS you might be able to sell the old one. Other suggestion: deploy a parachute for braking 😁jk.
I think regenerative braking is more suitable in places with disnivelated terrain and not for plain surfaces. Here in misiones it could be a little more useful because of the topography.
Regen really shines on hilly places in the mountains. That way you can use a small battery pack and basically use it like a hill assist not a motorcycle... The problem is most people are happy to fligh down the other side of the hill at 40mph but wind resistance is the square of velocity! so a person flying down the other side of the Hill at 40mph instead of going full regen and going 10mph is losing 90%of the energy where if they regend it they'd lose about 40% to inefficiencies in the motor and batterys.
What the OP is missing is people are not as aerodynamic as a car even if they are lighter. So regen isn't so much about stopping and starting it is about storing the extra energy instead of wasting it in aerodynamic losses of increased speeds
Why cant the geared motors simply reengage the clutch to do Regen?
How about "dynamic braking" as used in diesel-electric and some electric locomotives? Specifically for a tandem with a heavy trailer to control downhill speed.
Some tandems have drag brakes for this function, typically a drum brake designed to provide drag, but not enough braking force to provide reasonable stopping distances.
Dynamic brakes work by sending the current generated by the motor(s) into a resistor network (typically fan cooled on locomotives).
E-TWOW scooter is equipped with regen. I have a 24v with 250w motor. 4.0Ah battery gets about 8-10 kms.
I live in a really hilly town, I bet it gets much better results than 5% with all of the long steep hills
The best and clear explanation how is work regen brake. Thank you!
This video is very helpful. I got to understand the Regenerative braking very easily and clearly. Thank you very much.
I have a Yuyang King YKZ7240HN , it has a 2 wire Low Voltage Brake connector and a 1 wire High Voltage Brake connector
The point of regen braking isn't for battery recharge reasons at all. I like using it as a secondary brake because the hub motor replaced my front disc brake.
Funny, that odd situation you outlined exactly described MY situation. I live in San Francisco! Anyway, this video pretty much answered that question. Needless to say, if I am starting out on top of a long line of down hill trojectories it means whenever I return I have to climb all the way home. So I wanted to look into this topic as a possible way to help myself home. Thank you for answering that question, because what I wondered was how starting off fully charged, going downhill for a pretty good ways initially, would effect the the system. Imagine if you hadn't laid that one exception out like you did, I would still be ignorant in a bad way.
I would love to have an ebike with regenerative braking that activates when I back-pedal, just like on the Huffy I had as a kid; going downhill and slowing down could be all regen without engaging disc brakes. Grabbing a brake lever would engage the disc brakes AND regenerative braking.
Thanks for the info mate, I am desperately looking for this answer for my upcoming project work. This has really helped me to start my work. Need more videos from you.
I live and cycle in the mountains and hills of France. It seems odd to me that (if I get home again), I descend as much as I climb and surely all of those descents could be used to top up the battery. All the videos I have watched seem to talk about cycling around town on the flat.
Big market here, surely as we typically climb and descend about 1000 metres for every 75kms.
Micah, you should release on new video on regen citing Grin's research, bikes on the market that offer regen and discuss the only real benefit- saving brake wear for ebike commuters. Also, a minor critique- you are discussing efficency when I believe you mean effectiveness. Regen braking is always as efficent as the motor, no matter how much regen power is provided (effectiveness).
if you have an ebike that regens after letting go of the throttle.....then it also helps in saving your breaks and not using them very much as well.
You have to think a bit like a performance hybrid driver.
Power up a hill (throttle) reaching peak speed just before the crest, then regen down - but use the 'engine' (your legs) to recharge through the regen.
You will lose speed going down hill, offset some by the Work done by your legs, putting a lot more Watts back into the battery.
It's counterintuitive, as most people want to ride like a uhaul truck.... gain speed downhill and lose speed uphill. But like you say, that doesnt work when you're lightweight, like an ebike or perf hybrid.
Do the opposite and you'll get better results.
Ideal. Just as I was thinking I would ask you about the value of regen braking you answered the question. Good stuff. Thanks
Absolutely amazing videos love them all everything is so well executed and explained keep up the amazing videos thanks for the awesome content
I ran into the BMS issue with a Golden DD. It had regen when I used a 36v Lifepo from China. I got a 48v Shark and no regen. The regen made for a nice amount of braking. On a basic build the brakes may be a weak point, so I'd say the regen is a big plus. Starting on a hill I guess it would help to know the amount of charge. Subtract that from a full charge and then stop the charging a bit below that amount. Can't do it on most chargers. I suppose a fully integrated DIY industry would look at different motors, BMS boards, chargers, etc and configure specific systems. Thanks for all the links. I noticed a couple of the links aren't working.
The case of regen while riding off a hill with a full battery...
So regen would basically slow down a motor by using it as a generator.... What about driving the motor backwards, thereby using enough battery power to balance out the power gained by regen braking?
I am 250lbs regen machine
Hi Josh! I'm in the mountains of Kootenays, BC, and what I like about my Grin regen is the GMac geared rear hub motor gears down and helps a lot slowing me down on big hills. My bike has been NOT RUNNING for 3 mos and I have narrowed it down to the regen switch sticking, or somehow cutting off the motor until I power it OFF, then start again, but every time I BRAKE the same thing happens. It also OVER-BRAKES 'electronically' (I think) at times. I'm going to replace the levers and see if that fixes it. I already replaced the controller, and the battery. I'll check back after I fix it.
Have you ever thought about incorporating ultra capacitors into your battery packs to harvest more regen brake charge like electric cars do today?
I don't understand completly because I'm from colombia south america, but your videos are great I have an damage scooter I changed the hub motor but now I think also the problem is the controller.
Hey Micah do you think you could make a video about the cycle analyst?Basically how to get the most power out of the cycle analyst along with your controller.How do you make them talk to each other and get everything your bike can output.
I was wondering about this, so a search yielded this video and the answer. My hub motor is the smaller geared type. So now I know to buy disk brake pads for downhill. Thanks Micah.
Nice vid Micah, and I'm getting about the same using Regen 4.6% avg, but its more the point saving wear and tear on the brakes that i like
That's a great point, it does save your brake pads! I should have mentioned that... where were you 12 hours ago?!
Haha i will try next time!
@@EbikeSchool Please pin this comment for others to know.. Thank you..
Is there a way to make a geared motor brake regeneratively, like on a cheap ebike? Great video!
Maybe looking for a way to activate the cloutch so it regens
hello dear can you make a video on mid and hub motor with its advantages and disadvantages please
Second question: how can the battery be overcharged with a 100 percent charged battery going down a long decline? I always assumed that part of the purpose of a motor/charge controller is to not only to control battery drain but control and prevent overcharging??
Hey, loved this video. I have been asking this question and never got a good answer until I watched your video. Great info and very well delivered. Thank You
you know most controllers can be enabled its just making a small connection on the PCB
Yeaahh.. FANTASTIC video!! You even mentioned that very specific scenario riding a fully charged battery downhill... haha...
it's hard to pack all that information in one video, you managed to cover a LOT and I'm sure lots of people will ask even more questions and second video will be up soon haha
Next video mention about the powerful direct drive mid drive with regen (I sent some links on your Facebook post) Maybe just quickly mention about bigger bikes like Stealth Bomber, LMX, custom DIY Raptor/Vector and maybe even mention Zero & Alta motorcycles (people can do a Google search on these names for more info).
Well done mate... you're pumping some AWESOME content!!! Congrats =]
I want to know more about the braking ability than the regenerative part.
Th 5% regeneration would be enough for some kind of lights system by the sounds of it.
i subscribe because i love the way you explain ebikes before i buy them and you allways with a smile to explain things and to answer question thank you so much
Can you explain and make video on how to integrate throttle on pedelec. I mean how to switch from pedal assist to "on demand assist" using throttle? Thanks
Great info on Regan braking
i think it would be worth having for just being another brake alone and any range increase is great itd be great for going down steep hills
My guess is that the return on regen just doesn't justify the cost.
Would it be nice in a cost is no object scenario?
Maybe, but cost is ALWAYS an object for most of us.
I could maybe see it on a loaded up touring bike used in mountainous areas, where the brake saving benefits start to matter.
I have a gearless mid drive motor hooked up to a kelly controller and I have yet to wire in a variable thumb throttle I know this works as I'm following someone else who's done it so you can use a middrive motor but beware I read that your frame mounts to mid motor must be good as it's a lot of pressure on the frame I'm going to weld an extra mount onto my progect befor I wire up.
Exited as I also read its that good I barley need a rear brake at all
Hi Thks Mike, Enjoyed your many videos, very impressed with your good explanations n in-depth knowledge ! This one too, especially on the types of motor that can support regen. charging. One good point was that a restraining torque arm may be needed to prevent axile nuts working loose! With only a few % power recovery on av usage, agree that it is not worthwhile for the extra cost n complexity! In fact, as a frequent ebike user, I enjoy a little pedalling on the way, which might achieve much more than the regen braking, n give me some helpful exercise!
Thank for your regenerating break talk!
Q: how CAN I Control the breaking Force? Is three s control build for that?
I am living in Switzerland with many hills!
Robert
Another great and VERY informative video. I really learn so much from your videos and getting a notification that you put one out, is like Christmas morning and getting presents. haha
I didn't think regen braking would be too big a benefit unless you lived in the rocky mountains or maybe a cargo type ebike where you're hauling heavier loads, but like you said, every little bit adds up and a few % here and there starts to add up over time.
It reminds me of one of the things that my father told me about managing money when I was a boy, he said "Mind your pennies and your dollars take care of themselves".
I think if I were to use regen braking a lot, it might be nice to have a charge port or two for maybe a flashlight, cell phone, or even one of those portable battery banks to charge cell phones on the go, and then that would act like a load bank of sorts if you really could get THAT much out of braking. Keep up the great work.
Learned a lot from your regen breaking video. Thanks a million. Great benefit from subscribing to your information!
Thank you for the clear explanation. So regen not worth it on a bike. I've been thinking about a different idea -- I don't know what it's called but the concept is something like engine braking in trucks. Let's say that for downhills, I could set a maximum speed that I would like my bike to go at -- let's say 15 mph. All the extra energy that would have me going at say 30 mph on a downhill is then captured and fed back to my battery -- without using the brakes. This would be very useful in hilly areas. The energy being fed back would also have a nice steady fairly flat curve, as opposed to the intermittency of regen braking. Does such a system already exist? If not, could you imagine how to implement it?
Does regen affect the battery life?
AS if they have a cycle of 1000 charges, doesn't that mean that you lose some cycles?
that's my question too
yes and no. If you happen to regenerate more than the battery can take it may affect your battery life. However, like he said regen is really small increase in battery juice for bicycle, for normal use the negative effect on your battery is almost insignificant. With that says, don't worry too much about it, just go out there and enjoy your ebike
It should be a must with bigger faster ebike
Hello from Greece
Instead of breaking if you had a rear drive motor would it be possible and worthwhile to put a device on the front wheel that would help recharge your battery?
Hello, I think I have a good question... is it possible to add only electric brake without it being regenerative? I think so, it would have to be achieved in a diy plan, a way to connect the phases of the motor all together and at the same time that they are disconnected from the controller so as not to make a short circuit, because if you join the phases of the motor, it offers resistance or it brakes a lot even depends on the motor that it is, from my experience, the more amps the motor holds, the more it will brake, maybe connecting relays in parallel in each phase and then another relay that connects the 3 phases when pressing a momentary button, brake the engine and work, what do you think? Thank you
I am planning to do a generative pedaling(also includes regenerative braking in it) instead of regenerative braking! I think that way you will get a good work out if you want and charge the battery a lot more than 5 percent. let me know what you think of this. thanks.
Just eat less food it will be more efficient 😂
Hi, I have a question. I have an ebike and just recently changed the hub motor and controller to 72v 1500w specs. My batteries are 72v 10ah. I want more top end speed out of it. As I have experimented I understand that volts determine the torque but if I change my batteries to 72v 30ah it should give me more distance. But would this also increase my top end speed? Or will it only just give me better range?
Oh I just checked. What I actually need is how to increase amps on my batteries. Now I understand that amps and amp hours are different things
you need powerful controller, or modifie your controller to give more amps to your motor.
higher voltage does not anything to your acceleration, just give you more top speed.
you need more amps from controller, not amps/h from battery.
I thought that the BMS on the battery bank would prevent over charging. So even if you were on a hill it would not increase the voltage beyond its 100% state of charge. You would not benefit from the hill, but it should not damage your battery.
I put flyers out on a gas scooter all I do is speed up to 10 mph then stop 1000 times in 4 hours. I think regenerative braking would work great only thing I'm worried about is if it can hold up to the duration and punishment
The man walking by at 0:48 never knew he was walking directly behind greatness, haha! But seriously, thanks for all of this info Micah. You are the man!
Well... The main issue as to why I want regen braking is to slow the bike down slowly without using brakes kinda like the jake brakes on the semi-truck.
So the Rattan Pathfinder doesn’t have KERS because it’s not a mid-drive motor?
If you want distance wouldn't it be better getting the regen on the downhills where you don't need the power?
i really want to turn my mountain bike into a sur ron.
i like the regen option because if you downhill its so easy to lock up your rear with breaks but regen works more and more the faster it spins so you can maintain a very good decrease in speed while maintain lots of trusty traction as it will have a great skid to traction ratio.
i could care less about recouping energy its just skid control for me.
my problem is im just diving into this research and looking to make a great track bike....
where my question comes in is can rear hubs perform well off-road and i cant see why a toggle switch wouldnt work. you lock it on and when your not requesting demand the breaking will activate such as programmed setting level.
like my tesla i can get up to speed if i want to coast i need to let up on accelerator a little creating a flat. or if i let up to much it will create a negative and have a variable regen based on throttle position....
am i wrong? and maybe is there a list of people that can provide such products that i can assemble a great downhill bike?
What are the safety concerns regarding getting into an accident with an e-bike?
I have chinse 350w controller, and i have a problem-my regenrative braking is always works in the direction of the diving. How do i reverse the braking system without reversing the motor?
Thank you again. I live in an area north of Pittsburgh and its mostly up or down not to much level ground around here. Im planing on a tadpole recumbent build from scratch and would like to go electric. I will be buying your books soon. I have several plans for trike from atomic zombies. Ive built other gas powered bikes but engine vibration noise etc do make them less desirable. I would love to impliment some flexable solar panels onto a bob type trailer to carry trip gear as well as spare battery in charge.
yes, i got a golden motor, magic pie 3, rear wheel drive, and im going to set me up some regen, thanks for this
Another good informative video!
My ebike controller does have a 2 pin connector that's not connected to anything but short circuit without knowing what exactly does is not adviced, the Chinese company that I've bought my ebike don't think they going to help me as the seller doesn't know many technical specs that I've asked him - I've found that the controller is programmable, still doing reverse engineer/testing to find out what I can program
Can't you engage the regenerative cycle when simply pedaling?
Would using separate super capacitors be a good idea to utilize regenerative braking? Thinking it would save more discharge on the main battery when used to accelerate again.
I saw somewhere dudes adding supercapacitors to electric bikes with lithium battery, but it was quite unfriendly with a Li-Ion battery, as it would often demand or push back a lot of amps into it, which made it heat up often. There could be a solution with ESC controllers or some type of circuit controling the output (not to discharge or charge the battery with high currents), I'm sure of it.
I was just wondering about this same topic on one of my commutes last week and as I live on top of a hill, I can see how I could sometimes run into the overcharging scenario.
Hello, my controller has the regen brake feature, however, it has two low voltage brake connectors, one has a yellow and black wire while the other connector has only a purple wire . My question is which would I use and why ? Thanks..
Thanks for the informative video. Can it not feel strange with just have an on off electric break. Would not a progressive break better? It a big difference breaking force in a downhill compared stopping at a red light.
got good knowledge about the possibility of regenerative system installation in e-bike, and my question is that if we want to track how much energy is generated from the regenerative system how to design such system and log the data.
Whether do you have done the regeneration experiment... What was the result...?
Great video! I don't mean to nitpick, but using the term "efficiency" to describe the amount of energy being recovered is misleading in this context. The regen efficiency should be the flip side of the motor's "efficiency" in converting battery energy into distance traveled. Efficiency in the regen context should be the amount of energy recovered per unit of distance traveled. Your use of the word "efficiency" in percent units might be better stated as "amount of range extension" of the distance traveled. I know this is not a big deal, but it helps people to truly understand and analyze their own regen data. Also, I like the extra focus on saving wear and tear on the bike's braking hardware, plus the added 'good feeling' of electric braking! I've enjoyed both of your books so far, and am experimenting with your new weld-less battery assembly kit -- thanks for your significant contribution to eTraveling!
Hi Micah,
I'm loving your videos up to now and I'm just about to order both of your books on amazon!
I'm curious about where you think the e-bike world is going from here. I'm seeing more and more cool companies rising up and coming out with amazing products. I know you must have a good scope on the evolution of e-bikes, curious about your take and where is started, where it is now and where it's going.
Thanks for the great videos, keep them coming!
Great video, I'm sure with the growth of e bikes the regeneration options will improve. I just hate brakeing when cycling :D
Great video, it explained exactly what I was looking for in plain, easy to understand language. Keep up the good job.
Hey I'm building a hybrid gas minibike with electric hub motor on the front and a 125cc powering the rear. From what you were saying I should be able to deplete the batteries driving threw town and charge them driving on the trail gas powered. But I'll need a charge controller built in. My question is will a controller handle being on regen for extended times or should I build a separate/independent relayed circuit with charge controller built in?