Riley had a lot of chemistry with Willow on the outset and they bonded over school. I would change Riley to be originally interested in Willow. Willow would never have reciprocated because she was too in love with Oz and then later Tara, and those storylines are fantastic, so I would not want them to change. But if Buffy were interested in someone that liked Willow, it would have been an interesting role reversal for Willow and Buffy from the early seasons when Willow liked Xander who liked Buffy. The two women would never fight over Riley, much like how they never fought over Xander, cuz their friendship is bigger than that. But Buffy struggled with feeling like she belonged in college, and she was always an average student at best. She could have struggled with feelings of inadequacy due to her intelligence, and realizing that she was attracted to Riley because he was passionate about school. And maybe Riley could have tutored her which would have given them one on one time. And he could have explained psychology to her in a way that made sense thus igniting feelings on her side, because he would have helped her gain confidence in an area that she was previously insecure. Over time, Riley would learn about Buffy's heart and bravery and after spending time together appreciate her witty sense of humor, which would eventually lead him to develop feelings for her later in the season.
Oh my god, I love this! That is a story I would watch. You described it so well. I also felt that Willow and Riley clicked well in the beginning. Like you said, the idea of doing a role reversal for Buffy and Willow would fit in really well into Buffy's theme of being out of her element at the beginning of the season.
I love all these ideas! Riley crushing on Willow and we think he is being set up as the new love interest for her and then she zigs to Tara and he zags to Buffy, so unique. And Willow could have talked up Riley to Buffy (or vice versa) oblivious to the fact he is into her. Fabulous!
I always thought Riley should have had more interactions with Xander they both could have used a guy friend but because Riley was a super soldier and so focused on Buffy that never happened but in your au here him being a nerd and potentially befriending Willow first could have led to some fun bromance.
That would have been nice. There aren't that many male friendships depicted on the show. I honestly can't think of one good male friendship on Buffy. I guess Riley and Graham but that was very minor. Xander and Oz were friendly but I never saw them as friends.
@@PensiveWhiskers That's because the show is all about female empowerment and for the most part it succeeds spectaculary in that area not being to preachy or shoving it down the audiences throat (again for the most part) so that means male characters tend to get thrown to the side or treated as accessories which on one hand it's nice to see the coin flipped on the other it would have been to see every character be important complex and interesting and it would have been nice seeing more dudes being friends... I guess we have the three dumbasses you know Andrew and the other two whose names I can't remember but that wasn't healthy.
I think there should been a sesason without a love interest and let Buffy completely get over Angel before she tried to get with some one else. I think it was too soon to jump to another love interest Angel and Buffy love was so intense and there is probably a lot more things that you could do with Riley character if he had a chance to build up to the man that I think we all wanted. I think that's why even though Spike is so messed up in a lot of ways I found there relationship way more interesting then I ever did with Buffy and Riley.
Ultimately, I also think that season 4 should have been the season where Buffy is just single and getting used to college life. She went from a very intense relationship to a new relationship in a few months.
This is a really good idea, I particularly agree with you about them overlapping Riley and Angel, it makes us not take Riley seriously at all. I think it made the devastation Buffy showed when Riley left feel hollow.
Yeah, when I originally watched the show, I remember not feeling anything for the relationship between Riley and Buffy. Which is fine because the show is not about that, but it seemed like an odd choice for a main character. I wasn't adamantly opposed to it, it just felt hollow, as did his departure.
I didn't mind Riley, up until season 5. The fact that he was cheating on Buffy, while her mom was in the hospital with a brain tumor, and then had the absolute freaking audacity to blame HER and give her an ultimatum of 'forgive me now or I leave and join the military mission that gave me 2 existential crises in the last year' Just, OH MY GOD! That alone made me hate Riley. He is scum for cheating and even worse for blaming Buffy for it. Good video, though. I like your ideas of how to change Riley. Giving him more of a personality outside of Buffy and giving them more build-up would have been good. It also would have meant the semester was over, meaning her class with Walsh was over and Riley was no longer her TA
I think Riley would be a lot more liked if his story ended in season 4. I think that a lot of people were surprised that he actually continued into season 5 since his character didn't have much to do at that point. So the only thing they could do is make his character less likeable.
This is such a great video. I completely agree that he should have been more interesting and I think his interest in psychology is a perfect idea. In addition to the Pangs + I Will Remember You combo, you then get Something Blue, where Buffy is under the spell to get married to Spike. Because Spike is not boring, it's even harder to establish the love interest with Riley. I would keep that and maybe have Riley more on the research side with Maggie. Maybe Gram and Forest are still in the muscle side and he's friends with them. Maybe he doesn't know about Adam but he has experimented on monsters, wondering what makes them tick, making the conflict with New Moon Rising a little more personal to who he is.
You made another great point, the Something Blue episode also provided a strong contrast to Riley. Spike was automatically 100x more interesting than Riley. Riley was sandwiched between two interesting characters. I could also see Riley being more on the research side with Maggie. I thought about Riley being interested in the psychology of demons as well and that this aspect would be the driving force for him wanting to rejoin the initiative in season 5.
I actually really liked Riley in season 4. It was season 5 that I started disliking him intensely. Buffy was there for him again and again yet he (and Xander) would make her feel like she was completely shut down and everything was her fault. I do like your take on Riley a lot better than the shows and I'd love to hear how you would "rewrite" his season 5 arc. edit: typo
I see what you mean, Riley in season 4 is not bad, but he becomes less likeable in season 5. I had some thoughts on his story arc in season 5 but I left it out because I felt that my whole fanfiction would be too boring to listen to. 😅 Generally, my idea for his season 5 story would be to make him wish that he got back to his psychology research, specifically the study of demons. He leaves because he wants to join a special program in the initiative that uses his expertise. So, it would be pretty similar to the original story but taking out the plotline where he is afraid of not being as strong anymore. I'd keep the storyline of him feeling like Buffy doesn't love him, but I would take out the ultimatum that he gives her. He would still be flawed in my scenario but I think a bit more interesting because one of his driving forces for leaving would be his passion for something else. He wouldn't blame Buffy for being distant but rather he would feel that them growing apart is making him lose hope in their relationship.
I think he was fine until the end where he kept everything bothering him bottled up inside & then blamed Buffy for it. Not to mention the scoobies basically blamed her as well, but that’s a whole other issue. Boring is fine, that doesn’t bother me.
Yeah, I felt that his character arc started to decline as the show progressed. To me, it felt like his character was progressing in season 4, but in season 5, he had nothing left (in terms of his purpose). Perhaps I'll analyze him one day to understand what happened with his character.
I don't think i would change Riley also don't think Riley was Boring . But making him nerd could be so good , he was a caring kind boyfriend but we really didn't get change to know him .To be honest i always liked him but i was team spike for sure✨
You are a very kind person in the fandom. ☺I always felt neutral towards Riley. I had no idea that people hated him. I don't like it when Buffy characters get attacked so ever since I learned that Riley is disliked, that made me want to change him a little so that people would like him more.
He was hated because he took Angel's place...even for people who didn't like BAngel (like me), he's not as interesting as Angel - which leads back to your point. I also didn't like that he was her TA. My change would be he gets involved with Willow (after the class is over), freeing Tara up for a relationship with Buffy.
Now that is how you do "anti-Angel." 😂 Tara and Buffy would have been quite an interesting pair. If the show wanted to subvert our expectations, that couple would have been the way to go. No one would see it coming.
Hmm.. I would have styled Riley more after Oz than Angel, playing a straight-man role. He was meant to be the anti Angel but when they met and had that pissing contest they were childishly similar. Unlike Oz, his calmness comes from being experienced and professional. I also hated the end, where because he felt ignored by Buffy, he metaphorically shared dirty needles with a prostitute in a crack den. IMO the “used to be the mission, now missions boyfriend” was a much more interesting dilemma. Instead they could have aimed for a spin-off a bit like star gate, gathering a few other Sunnydale rejects with him, eg the invisible girl or a Larry resurrected by the dude from s2e2 as a precursor experiment to Adam. (The death of Larry was irritating before I heard of the “bury your gays” trope)
Hi, I am a new subscriber and really enjoying your Buffy analyses! I agree with a lot of the points made in the vid about Riley. A slow burn romance would have been better. Its a successful way of establishing a new love interest for good reasons and fits Buffy's character and where she is (without) Angel. I strongly suspect that Riley was intended by the showrunner/writers to be a long term relationship with Buffy because on paper he seems such a good match. But for me the main issue is that there is a lack of chemistry between the actors/characters - perhaps because their relationship is rushed or perhaps its just one of those things. I know that some productions have 'chemistry tests' to ensure that there is an x-factor between two actors. I don't dislike Riley but I find the romance/sex scenes simply awkward because the lack of chemistry makes me think of Riley and Buffy as more like friends or even siblings!! There is no spark. In contrast , in season 4 there is much more chemistry between Spike and Buffy even though on paper they seem a complete mismatch and I think it is something to do with that elusive chemistry that either sizzles or fizzles.
Hey! Welcome :) I believe the writers did want Riley to be the end game for her but then had to write him off because the fandom didn't feel the same way. I always chalked up the lack of chemistry due to the fact that the relationship happened "too soon," but maybe it is a lack of chemistry between the actors. I agree that the chemistry between Buffy and Spike was stronger than Buffy's and Riley's in that season. Thank you so much for watching!
I think they could have been endgame. Also the lack of chemistry was that they were too soon and let’s face it fans couldn’t not compare Riley to Angel and Spike. Too many men in this scenario and Riley was the new guy with no fans. Also he was very clean cut. I don’t think that’s what we all imagined for Buffy. I think fans pictured her with a guy with an edge. I feel like he became less likable when there was a fan backlash and writers needed a reason to write him out. He wasn’t a bad actor or character but there were just too many variables working against him.
I can't say I thought much about Riley. In Season 5, he's not terribly likeable (though had he been set up as being very likeable in season 4, that might have also changed) but he's just kind of . . . there. I really like the idea of him being nerdy. This show is very nerdy friendly. After all, Willow is a nerd, Xander is also somewhat of a nerd. And back in the day, William Pratt (aka, Spike) was a total awkward nerd. I like the idea of letting the audience (and the characters) get to know Riley before any romance begins. Also, the contrast that would have been to both his Initiative persona and to Buffy, as you pointed out, would definitely have added some interest. Also, having him be really into psychology could have added a lot to the group dynamic. LOVE the idea and now I'm sad that something like that didn't happen.
You're right! The show had an appreciation for nerdy personalities. I am personally a sucker for characters that have unknown layers, like Peter Parker/Spiderman, someone who seems uncoordinated but who is actually really skilled. There's a scene with Riley that I wish I included in this video, when Xander is split in two in season 5, Riley says something like "does anyone want to put them in separate rooms and do experiments on them? Just me then." It seems like that love for psychology would have fit so well for him.
Love this analysis, you did a great job at breaking down each episode, and yes, they went too fast with that relationship. I think that they didn't give him a good backstory even after, I think they could have done something like what they did with Fred in Angel, the backstory didn't happen all at once, some even was when she became Illyria. I keep thinking of Spike and how much compassion he had and how good he was at seeing love in others, he was really good at catching up vibs about other people's feelings and how he played with that, and I think it was because he was a poet before he became a vampire, I think Riley just happen to be there, he was too convenient, which sometimes is a bit realistic on how relationship happen, sometimes when you are heartbroken like buffy was, and everyone is always asking if you are in a relationship already r is been too long since you dated someone, sometimes we move faster than we should into a new relationship, so it is kind of very real to be honest, those kind of relationships lol... Thank you for this video, I loved it!
It would have been better if we got more of a backstory on Riley. A lot of the other characters received a backstory but his background is pretty much blank. You're right that the relationship is realistic; sometimes a relationship happens primarily because there is a person who likes you.
Amen! The worst thing a show can do is have such a boring character. I honestly couldn't name a single unique character trait about Riley EXCEPT for the fact that he's Buffy's love interest.
You're right. Eddie would have been great to ship with Buffy if only he hadn't gotten vamped. Suggesting that Riley have another nationality would have made it virtually impossible for him to be in the Initiative, at least at his age. Also, he and Buffy getting romantically involved later--even though it makes sense--would have made it less obvious that he was with Buffy because Maggie (Dr. Walsh) wanted a way to keep tabs on the competition. Other than these observations, which are all minor details, I like your suggestions. As a general rule I don't speculate about what I would do if I had control where I don't, so it's an interesting question. I think that if I could change Riley in any way it would be to make him more aware, at least viscerally, of when his hero worship of Dr. Walsh prompted him to respond to a situation in (added in editing--a way in) which his conduct was below his personal ethical standards.
You have really good points. I didn't fully think through the other nationality bit, that was thrown in last minute, but you're right, it would be difficult for him to join the Initiative if he came from another country. I guess if he was very young when he came to the U.S., then it could potentially work. The nationality idea was probably too out there. 😅 The delayed romantic involvement would require some changes in the plot to make it work, like you said. I like your idea of making Riley face internal ethical conflicts more as a result of his loyalty to Walsh.
@PensiveWhiskers not at all! I actually think they're really smart! I have a very critical opinion when I watch something but I never ask myself how it could have been fixed, and it's so refreshing to not just listen to criticisms but to think of concrete changes that would have made it work! For what it's worth, I would have liked your version of Riley a lot better! And it would have made it so much more impactful to have him fuck up and leave in season 5 if we were actually invested in his character and relationship with buffy in the first place !
I do like your take on a potential nerdy Riley. The seeds are definitely there that the show could have taken advantage of. Unfortunately, I feel like the writers were too focused on just pencilling in a love interest that they didn't give Riley the time needed to grow into an interesting character. Idk I originally really liked Riley in my first watch through and was hoping he'd grow into a good side character until they killed his potential in season 5. Which I believe was deliberate considering how popular Spuffy had gotten.
I haven't thought about that: the fact that his character arc took a downturn because of Spuffy, but that's a good explanation. I figured that since the writers knew the fandom was lukewarm on Riley, they decided to lean into it and make it easy to write the character off the show.
You perfectly surmised what I was thinking yesterday early in the video. Yesterday I thought, "Riley's greatest sin was that he was boring, and that fault was somehow large enough that most fans rank him below both the pdf-file and r🦍ist boyfiends" Not me though, I'll always be Riley's strongest defender 💪
Riley provided more stability for Buffy which was the essence of character but since the character got written out they had to come up with a terrible plotline of Riley getting bit by vampires which was so unbelievable considering the overall tone of him.
That plotline was very frustrating. :( I read a statement made by Marti Noxon saying that they wanted to give Riley a darker side, to show that this straight edge guy is starting to fray at the edges.
I think everything in the video is true, but as a secondary main character (not even starting out as a mai character at all) his nerdy-ness isn't focused on. I think once he learns about Buffy he gets it in his head he needs to keep up and focus on The Initiative more. Walsh grooming him probably has something to do with that as well. What people don't always remember is that the end of episode eight showed all characters will have all romances fail and disguised the spoiler as a joke. All the this is how Riley could of been a part of the group would burn a hole in a theory I have about the original four being the only real members of said group and everyone else isn't co nnected to anyone except who they're dating, related to or another non-member. I disagree that any main arc is about Riley because the main arc isn't even the initiative. It's aboutv the Scoobies college experiences and not doing well at keeping the high school group together. Riley and The Initiative is Buffy's college (pulling Buffy away) extention of that, as Tara is with Willow and Xander not being in college is for him and Giles being a "man of leisure" is for him.
Interesting! That would be kinda cool. I do wish Season Four hadn’t been derailed by the exit of Walsh’s actress. His mommy issues weren’t fully explored and his arc went bust. I always quite liked Riley regardless. Marc Blucas deserved better! Also, he and Xander had weirdly good chemistry. I think they should have hooked up instead.
I'm a new subscriber! I love all your videos, but I've lost count how many times I've watched this one. I agree with your ideas about Riley, I was always disappointed that they never gave him any interests outside of Buffy and the back and forth between the two of them about who is the strongest sometimes got a little annoying. I still liked Riley but he would have been great as a "Peter Parker" Character. Please continue to make more. as nice as Riley is I'm team Spike! and was wondering if you would ever do a re-write of their relationship? or what your thoughts are, Buffy was always so mean to spike after all the things he did for her, I think joss made their relationship seem toxic at times because of how much he didn't like the character.
Hey! Welcome 🙂I'm so happy that you like this video! I was nervous about posting it because I know that Riley is a contentious character, so I wasn't sure how people were going to react. I haven't thought about re-writing Buffy's and Spike's relationship, but that is an interesting idea. When I first watched the show, it also bothered me how mean Buffy was sometimes to Spike (I've since seen it so many times that I'm used to it). I didn't understand why she had to punch him when he was defenseless. That seemed unnecessarily cruel and odd coming from a hero. If I ever make a video about my nitpicks of this show, that would be on the list. It may be a bit of a while before I get to the complicated relationships. I'm working on a video on Angel's and Spike's relationship, and I've come to realize that I don't feel ready to cover the large characters for this show, not in full anyway. This show is on a pedestal for me, nothing will be good enough. 😅So the next few Buffy videos will likely be on simpler relationships or smaller characters, I hope that's ok. I'm working my way up.
@@PensiveWhiskersNo Worries 🙂feeling intimidated is understandable for sure. The spike and angel relationship is interesting I never thought about that. I will look forward to your videos on the smaller characters to.
Uuuh, what an interesting idea: psychology nerd Riley. He would have brought something new to the group, such as "profiling" baddies. He wouldn't have to be right all the time, but it could have been a new element for some episodes. Buffy is also very intelligent and often strategic in analyzing her enemies, so there could have been an interesting back and forth between them. And as someone who likes academics he would have had an opinion, when Buffy dropped out. It could have also been one of his flaws, overanalyzing or making others uncomfortable with his truth bombs. And with the nice slow burn on top ;) --- I'd read that fanfiction ;) I never actively disliked Riley until his jerkish behaviour in S5, but I did think he was a bit boring (until his jerkish behaviour in S5...), but I would have liked to see the little details they mention about him explored a little bit more. We see him coming from church once. How does his faith relate to demons and esp. Vampires who are influenced by Christian symbols? Is he devout or is going to church more a habit? Does he miss his family in Iowa and does he expect to go back eventually? How did he get into a secret military programme? How did he learn about demons...
Thank you! I'm looking forward to your review! I feel like Riley's plotline slowed down Season 4 so I could see why people would want to skip the scenes.
@ Pensive Whiskers you are a genius! Everything you said is spot on. Riley wasn’t deserving of all of the hate we just didn’t get a chance to really know him and Angel still felt very present. I agree with all of your ideas and the ideas put out there about Riley and Willow. In reality Spike was the a villain in the Buffy and Riley triangle but it was probably easier for fans to look past Spikes manipulations because fans knew and liked him already. Riley never had a chance between Angel and Spike. Xander would have probably done better? Lol
Thank you! 🙂 I don't think Riley deserves all the hate. It's fair to critique him for his actions in season 5 but it feels like other characters get off easier for worse actions. I personally love Xander but I'm afraid to think what the fandom would have done to him if he became the replacement. 😆
S4 Riley wasn't a bad person, but he was a frustrating character, partly because so many things about s4 were so underbaked. A better central conflict for the season would almost by necessity have also developed Riley better. If the Initiative were designed to be more appealing instead of obviously wrong from the start, if Buffy had joined them and worked with them for some time and was excited about their prospect for her future, she could have bonded with Riley as a teammate rather than as a weaker-and-clearly-misguided semi-rival.
I also think that if Buffy joined the Initiative earlier and had a stronger connection with the Initiative, it would have created a stronger storyline.
I would like to see Andrew was a nerd lol appeared earlier or in season 6 and 7 with a better role to help. Eddy could be alive and a new friend. Riley i dont know just a friend and not a love interest was a better idea but for initiative arc soldiers had to be important. Or maybe make another main narrative arc
It would have been interesting to get Andrew's appearance earlier. I think if the show knew they were going to introduce Andrew, he probably would have popped out during the high school years.
This was great. Honestly, season 4 wasnt great and, I thiink it was probably because of Joss Whedon's involvement in angel for the first time at the same time and that the professor left halfway through unexpectedly
Thank you! I like season 4 because of the one-off episodes but I do have to admit that the overarching story for season 4 was pretty weak. I feel it had potential, but I don't think it hit that potential.
Just here to say I love your work! Riley definitely was my least favorite character on the show. I really agree with you on him needing to be platonic friends with Buffy first.
Thank you so much! ☺ I think in his case, a friendship would have been a way to go. This video was a little out there, but I will have more normal Buffy videos in the future.
I actually liked riley but it was too soon for buffy to move on from angel they should had started out as friends then later in season 4 start to have romantic feelings to me i really didn't like that the show did with him in season 5 i was glad that he got his happy ending in season 6
I also felt it was too soon. I never disliked Riley, but I was never able to emotionally invest in him as a character. I think it was mostly because their romance was started too soon. I liked his appearance in season 6 because he seemed to be a broken shell in season 5.
Hahaha, very true, thank you! I actually wanted to be a writer when I was younger. I wrote bad poetry (William the Bloody bad). I guess in a way, I'm writing now with these videos. 🙂
Honey, if you fixed Riley this way, Riley wouldn't have become codependent. The narrative falls apart. What you seem to be missing is Riley is NOT suppose to compete. That's the tragedy. My personal opinion? Riley's plotline is perfect.
I totally hear what you're saying, his whole narrative would change as a result. The thing is, I think the writers wanted Riley to be the guy for Buffy. They wanted him to compete. He was written off because fans didn't want him. So, I think the show failed him in making him desirable for a lot of people. This feels like one of those cases where the writers were hoping fans would feel one way, but everybody went in the opposite direction.
@PensiveWhiskers as a fan, I have a unique experience- I didn't see a single episode before season 4. That was my first year. To me, Riley IS the OG love interest. I wasn't able to watch the first three seasons until they came out on DVD. I think that gives me a different clarity on Buffy and Riley. The short assessment is that everything you said about Riley is right, but that's the beauty of his character. His world IS comically small. This is why he was so fragile when Maggie died. This is why his new identity became "Buffys boyfriend" and why he became SO needy! (Because he DIDN'T have a well rounded personality. The very things that made him a great soldier also made him really unbalanced in his personal life. Basically, he became 2001s version of "Beach Ken" when the military was gone. There is a clinical term called "enmeshment". And you see it beautifully implode between Buffy and Riley. I was shocked at how on-the-money the conversations in those episodes were. Most of our relationships fail before we find the one that doesn't. And not every failed relationship was with a monster. The exploration of having an unhealthy relationship with a great guy I find incredibly relatable and this is one of the best done explorations I think I've ever seen on television. It is estimated 1 in 10 American males have purchased the services of s*x workers. It's an industry worth 150 billion annually. We can pretend 1 in 10 men are monsters, or we can explore why a decent guy (like Riley) would find the appeal of these services. And making Riley healthier would really undercut that exploration. Because, while common, it's an incredibly broken act to commit. The confusion, the disgust, the anger bless all those writers for wading into that space.
That's a good point; Riley is a good representation of someone who doesn't know how to exist outside of a relationship. We do need to see those types of characters on screen. Even if the writers didn't intend it, it is good to have these characters on screen to reflect real life.
@PensiveWhiskers the writers built this up a long time. Even before the "she doesn't love me" line. I don't know what you mean by "the writers didn't intend". Their only misstep as far as I am concerned is how they wrote Rileys wife Sam. She's a super independent, highly competent go-getter that doesn't need him. That never rang true for me. In my head cannon, he married some local neurotic South American woman he rescued from monsters and brought back. (Think the Fred/Angel plotline, but Riley reciprocated, because you know he totally would).
Riley had a lot of chemistry with Willow on the outset and they bonded over school. I would change Riley to be originally interested in Willow. Willow would never have reciprocated because she was too in love with Oz and then later Tara, and those storylines are fantastic, so I would not want them to change. But if Buffy were interested in someone that liked Willow, it would have been an interesting role reversal for Willow and Buffy from the early seasons when Willow liked Xander who liked Buffy. The two women would never fight over Riley, much like how they never fought over Xander, cuz their friendship is bigger than that. But Buffy struggled with feeling like she belonged in college, and she was always an average student at best. She could have struggled with feelings of inadequacy due to her intelligence, and realizing that she was attracted to Riley because he was passionate about school. And maybe Riley could have tutored her which would have given them one on one time. And he could have explained psychology to her in a way that made sense thus igniting feelings on her side, because he would have helped her gain confidence in an area that she was previously insecure. Over time, Riley would learn about Buffy's heart and bravery and after spending time together appreciate her witty sense of humor, which would eventually lead him to develop feelings for her later in the season.
Oh my god, I love this! That is a story I would watch. You described it so well. I also felt that Willow and Riley clicked well in the beginning. Like you said, the idea of doing a role reversal for Buffy and Willow would fit in really well into Buffy's theme of being out of her element at the beginning of the season.
I love all these ideas! Riley crushing on Willow and we think he is being set up as the new love interest for her and then she zigs to Tara and he zags to Buffy, so unique. And Willow could have talked up Riley to Buffy (or vice versa) oblivious to the fact he is into her. Fabulous!
Brilliant! That would have been a good storyline.
I always thought Riley should have had more interactions with Xander they both could have used a guy friend but because Riley was a super soldier and so focused on Buffy that never happened but in your au here him being a nerd and potentially befriending Willow first could have led to some fun bromance.
That would have been nice. There aren't that many male friendships depicted on the show. I honestly can't think of one good male friendship on Buffy. I guess Riley and Graham but that was very minor. Xander and Oz were friendly but I never saw them as friends.
@@PensiveWhiskers That's because the show is all about female empowerment and for the most part it succeeds spectaculary in that area not being to preachy or shoving it down the audiences throat (again for the most part) so that means male characters tend to get thrown to the side or treated as accessories which on one hand it's nice to see the coin flipped on the other it would have been to see every character be important complex and interesting and it would have been nice seeing more dudes being friends... I guess we have the three dumbasses you know Andrew and the other two whose names I can't remember but that wasn't healthy.
I think there should been a sesason without a love interest and let Buffy completely get over Angel before she tried to get with some one else. I think it was too soon to jump to another love interest Angel and Buffy love was so intense and there is probably a lot more things that you could do with Riley character if he had a chance to build up to the man that I think we all wanted. I think that's why even though Spike is so messed up in a lot of ways I found there relationship way more interesting then I ever did with Buffy and Riley.
Ultimately, I also think that season 4 should have been the season where Buffy is just single and getting used to college life. She went from a very intense relationship to a new relationship in a few months.
But your idea to introduce Riley as a new friend would have been great. And Buffy could have been single for a while.
This is a really good idea, I particularly agree with you about them overlapping Riley and Angel, it makes us not take Riley seriously at all. I think it made the devastation Buffy showed when Riley left feel hollow.
Yeah, when I originally watched the show, I remember not feeling anything for the relationship between Riley and Buffy. Which is fine because the show is not about that, but it seemed like an odd choice for a main character. I wasn't adamantly opposed to it, it just felt hollow, as did his departure.
I didn't mind Riley, up until season 5. The fact that he was cheating on Buffy, while her mom was in the hospital with a brain tumor, and then had the absolute freaking audacity to blame HER and give her an ultimatum of 'forgive me now or I leave and join the military mission that gave me 2 existential crises in the last year'
Just, OH MY GOD! That alone made me hate Riley. He is scum for cheating and even worse for blaming Buffy for it.
Good video, though. I like your ideas of how to change Riley. Giving him more of a personality outside of Buffy and giving them more build-up would have been good. It also would have meant the semester was over, meaning her class with Walsh was over and Riley was no longer her TA
I think Riley would be a lot more liked if his story ended in season 4. I think that a lot of people were surprised that he actually continued into season 5 since his character didn't have much to do at that point. So the only thing they could do is make his character less likeable.
This is such a great video. I completely agree that he should have been more interesting and I think his interest in psychology is a perfect idea. In addition to the Pangs + I Will Remember You combo, you then get Something Blue, where Buffy is under the spell to get married to Spike. Because Spike is not boring, it's even harder to establish the love interest with Riley.
I would keep that and maybe have Riley more on the research side with Maggie. Maybe Gram and Forest are still in the muscle side and he's friends with them. Maybe he doesn't know about Adam but he has experimented on monsters, wondering what makes them tick, making the conflict with New Moon Rising a little more personal to who he is.
You made another great point, the Something Blue episode also provided a strong contrast to Riley. Spike was automatically 100x more interesting than Riley. Riley was sandwiched between two interesting characters.
I could also see Riley being more on the research side with Maggie. I thought about Riley being interested in the psychology of demons as well and that this aspect would be the driving force for him wanting to rejoin the initiative in season 5.
I actually really liked Riley in season 4. It was season 5 that I started disliking him intensely. Buffy was there for him again and again yet he (and Xander) would make her feel like she was completely shut down and everything was her fault. I do like your take on Riley a lot better than the shows and I'd love to hear how you would "rewrite" his season 5 arc.
edit: typo
I see what you mean, Riley in season 4 is not bad, but he becomes less likeable in season 5. I had some thoughts on his story arc in season 5 but I left it out because I felt that my whole fanfiction would be too boring to listen to. 😅
Generally, my idea for his season 5 story would be to make him wish that he got back to his psychology research, specifically the study of demons. He leaves because he wants to join a special program in the initiative that uses his expertise. So, it would be pretty similar to the original story but taking out the plotline where he is afraid of not being as strong anymore. I'd keep the storyline of him feeling like Buffy doesn't love him, but I would take out the ultimatum that he gives her. He would still be flawed in my scenario but I think a bit more interesting because one of his driving forces for leaving would be his passion for something else. He wouldn't blame Buffy for being distant but rather he would feel that them growing apart is making him lose hope in their relationship.
I think he was fine until the end where he kept everything bothering him bottled up inside & then blamed Buffy for it. Not to mention the scoobies basically blamed her as well, but that’s a whole other issue. Boring is fine, that doesn’t bother me.
Yeah, I felt that his character arc started to decline as the show progressed. To me, it felt like his character was progressing in season 4, but in season 5, he had nothing left (in terms of his purpose). Perhaps I'll analyze him one day to understand what happened with his character.
I don't think i would change Riley also don't think Riley was Boring . But making him nerd could be so good , he was a caring kind boyfriend but we really didn't get change to know him .To be honest i always liked him but i was team spike for sure✨
You are a very kind person in the fandom. ☺I always felt neutral towards Riley. I had no idea that people hated him. I don't like it when Buffy characters get attacked so ever since I learned that Riley is disliked, that made me want to change him a little so that people would like him more.
He was hated because he took Angel's place...even for people who didn't like BAngel (like me), he's not as interesting as Angel - which leads back to your point.
I also didn't like that he was her TA.
My change would be he gets involved with Willow (after the class is over), freeing Tara up for a relationship with Buffy.
Now that is how you do "anti-Angel." 😂 Tara and Buffy would have been quite an interesting pair. If the show wanted to subvert our expectations, that couple would have been the way to go. No one would see it coming.
I love this idea! It makes the build-up to Riley so interesting.
Yes 🙌, oh what could have been…
Hmm.. I would have styled Riley more after Oz than Angel, playing a straight-man role. He was meant to be the anti Angel but when they met and had that pissing contest they were childishly similar. Unlike Oz, his calmness comes from being experienced and professional.
I also hated the end, where because he felt ignored by Buffy, he metaphorically shared dirty needles with a prostitute in a crack den. IMO the “used to be the mission, now missions boyfriend” was a much more interesting dilemma. Instead they could have aimed for a spin-off a bit like star gate, gathering a few other Sunnydale rejects with him, eg the invisible girl or a Larry resurrected by the dude from s2e2 as a precursor experiment to Adam.
(The death of Larry was irritating before I heard of the “bury your gays” trope)
Hi, I am a new subscriber and really enjoying your Buffy analyses! I agree with a lot of the points made in the vid about Riley. A slow burn romance would have been better. Its a successful way of establishing a new love interest for good reasons and fits Buffy's character and where she is (without) Angel.
I strongly suspect that Riley was intended by the showrunner/writers to be a long term relationship with Buffy because on paper he seems such a good match. But for me the main issue is that there is a lack of chemistry between the actors/characters - perhaps because their relationship is rushed or perhaps its just one of those things. I know that some productions have 'chemistry tests' to ensure that there is an x-factor between two actors. I don't dislike Riley but I find the romance/sex scenes simply awkward because the lack of chemistry makes me think of Riley and Buffy as more like friends or even siblings!! There is no spark. In contrast , in season 4 there is much more chemistry between Spike and Buffy even though on paper they seem a complete mismatch and I think it is something to do with that elusive chemistry that either sizzles or fizzles.
Hey! Welcome :) I believe the writers did want Riley to be the end game for her but then had to write him off because the fandom didn't feel the same way. I always chalked up the lack of chemistry due to the fact that the relationship happened "too soon," but maybe it is a lack of chemistry between the actors. I agree that the chemistry between Buffy and Spike was stronger than Buffy's and Riley's in that season. Thank you so much for watching!
I think they could have been endgame. Also the lack of chemistry was that they were too soon and let’s face it fans couldn’t not compare Riley to Angel and Spike. Too many men in this scenario and Riley was the new guy with no fans. Also he was very clean cut. I don’t think that’s what we all imagined for Buffy. I think fans pictured her with a guy with an edge. I feel like he became less likable when there was a fan backlash and writers needed a reason to write him out. He wasn’t a bad actor or character but there were just too many variables working against him.
I can't say I thought much about Riley. In Season 5, he's not terribly likeable (though had he been set up as being very likeable in season 4, that might have also changed) but he's just kind of . . . there. I really like the idea of him being nerdy. This show is very nerdy friendly. After all, Willow is a nerd, Xander is also somewhat of a nerd. And back in the day, William Pratt (aka, Spike) was a total awkward nerd. I like the idea of letting the audience (and the characters) get to know Riley before any romance begins. Also, the contrast that would have been to both his Initiative persona and to Buffy, as you pointed out, would definitely have added some interest. Also, having him be really into psychology could have added a lot to the group dynamic. LOVE the idea and now I'm sad that something like that didn't happen.
You're right! The show had an appreciation for nerdy personalities. I am personally a sucker for characters that have unknown layers, like Peter Parker/Spiderman, someone who seems uncoordinated but who is actually really skilled. There's a scene with Riley that I wish I included in this video, when Xander is split in two in season 5, Riley says something like "does anyone want to put them in separate rooms and do experiments on them? Just me then." It seems like that love for psychology would have fit so well for him.
Love this analysis, you did a great job at breaking down each episode, and yes, they went too fast with that relationship. I think that they didn't give him a good backstory even after, I think they could have done something like what they did with Fred in Angel, the backstory didn't happen all at once, some even was when she became Illyria. I keep thinking of Spike and how much compassion he had and how good he was at seeing love in others, he was really good at catching up vibs about other people's feelings and how he played with that, and I think it was because he was a poet before he became a vampire, I think Riley just happen to be there, he was too convenient, which sometimes is a bit realistic on how relationship happen, sometimes when you are heartbroken like buffy was, and everyone is always asking if you are in a relationship already r is been too long since you dated someone, sometimes we move faster than we should into a new relationship, so it is kind of very real to be honest, those kind of relationships lol...
Thank you for this video, I loved it!
It would have been better if we got more of a backstory on Riley. A lot of the other characters received a backstory but his background is pretty much blank. You're right that the relationship is realistic; sometimes a relationship happens primarily because there is a person who likes you.
Amen! The worst thing a show can do is have such a boring character. I honestly couldn't name a single unique character trait about Riley EXCEPT for the fact that he's Buffy's love interest.
It's such a shame since we have so many evolved characters, even minor ones, on this show.
You're right. Eddie would have been great to ship with Buffy if only he hadn't gotten vamped.
Suggesting that Riley have another nationality would have made it virtually impossible for him to be in the Initiative, at least at his age. Also, he and Buffy getting romantically involved later--even though it makes sense--would have made it less obvious that he was with Buffy because Maggie (Dr. Walsh) wanted a way to keep tabs on the competition. Other than these observations, which are all minor details, I like your suggestions.
As a general rule I don't speculate about what I would do if I had control where I don't, so it's an interesting question. I think that if I could change Riley in any way it would be to make him more aware, at least viscerally, of when his hero worship of Dr. Walsh prompted him to respond to a situation in (added in editing--a way in) which his conduct was below his personal ethical standards.
You have really good points. I didn't fully think through the other nationality bit, that was thrown in last minute, but you're right, it would be difficult for him to join the Initiative if he came from another country. I guess if he was very young when he came to the U.S., then it could potentially work. The nationality idea was probably too out there. 😅 The delayed romantic involvement would require some changes in the plot to make it work, like you said.
I like your idea of making Riley face internal ethical conflicts more as a result of his loyalty to Walsh.
Eddie could be a new friend in the scooby gang it would be great
Such brilliant ideas honestly!!❤
Thank you! I know the ideas are a little out there and potentially controversial, but I couldn't help it.
@PensiveWhiskers not at all! I actually think they're really smart! I have a very critical opinion when I watch something but I never ask myself how it could have been fixed, and it's so refreshing to not just listen to criticisms but to think of concrete changes that would have made it work!
For what it's worth, I would have liked your version of Riley a lot better! And it would have made it so much more impactful to have him fuck up and leave in season 5 if we were actually invested in his character and relationship with buffy in the first place !
I do like your take on a potential nerdy Riley. The seeds are definitely there that the show could have taken advantage of. Unfortunately, I feel like the writers were too focused on just pencilling in a love interest that they didn't give Riley the time needed to grow into an interesting character. Idk I originally really liked Riley in my first watch through and was hoping he'd grow into a good side character until they killed his potential in season 5. Which I believe was deliberate considering how popular Spuffy had gotten.
I haven't thought about that: the fact that his character arc took a downturn because of Spuffy, but that's a good explanation. I figured that since the writers knew the fandom was lukewarm on Riley, they decided to lean into it and make it easy to write the character off the show.
@@PensiveWhiskers Yeah, though weirdly enough, your description of a nerdy Riley arc reminded me of Sam Winchester in many ways.
You perfectly surmised what I was thinking yesterday early in the video. Yesterday I thought, "Riley's greatest sin was that he was boring, and that fault was somehow large enough that most fans rank him below both the pdf-file and r🦍ist boyfiends"
Not me though, I'll always be Riley's strongest defender 💪
Riley provided more stability for Buffy which was the essence of character but since the character got written out they had to come up with a terrible plotline of Riley getting bit by vampires which was so unbelievable considering the overall tone of him.
That plotline was very frustrating. :( I read a statement made by Marti Noxon saying that they wanted to give Riley a darker side, to show that this straight edge guy is starting to fray at the edges.
Incredible job, loved this.
Thank you! 😄
I think everything in the video is true, but as a secondary main character (not even starting out as a mai character at all) his nerdy-ness isn't focused on. I think once he learns about Buffy he gets it in his head he needs to keep up and focus on The Initiative more. Walsh grooming him probably has something to do with that as well. What people don't always remember is that the end of episode eight showed all characters will have all romances fail and disguised the spoiler as a joke.
All the this is how Riley could of been a part of the group would burn a hole in a theory I have about the original four being the only real members of said group and everyone else isn't co nnected to anyone except who they're dating, related to or another non-member.
I disagree that any main arc is about Riley because the main arc isn't even the initiative. It's aboutv the Scoobies college experiences and not doing well at keeping the high school group together. Riley and The Initiative is Buffy's college (pulling Buffy away) extention of that, as Tara is with Willow and Xander not being in college is for him and Giles being a "man of leisure" is for him.
Very well presented!
Thank you! I know it's a little out there but it's fun to theorize. :)
Interesting! That would be kinda cool.
I do wish Season Four hadn’t been derailed by the exit of Walsh’s actress. His mommy issues weren’t fully explored and his arc went bust. I always quite liked Riley regardless.
Marc Blucas deserved better!
Also, he and Xander had weirdly good chemistry. I think they should have hooked up instead.
He did indeed deserve better. I feel bad for the actor, apparently he got a lot of hate as a result of this role.
I'm a new subscriber! I love all your videos, but I've lost count how many times I've watched this one. I agree with your ideas about Riley, I was always disappointed that they never gave him any interests outside of Buffy and the back and forth between the two of them about who is the strongest sometimes got a little annoying. I still liked Riley but he would have been great as a "Peter Parker" Character. Please continue to make more.
as nice as Riley is I'm team Spike! and was wondering if you would ever do a re-write of their relationship? or what your thoughts are, Buffy was always so mean to spike after all the things he did for her, I think joss made their relationship seem toxic at times because of how much he didn't like the character.
Hey! Welcome 🙂I'm so happy that you like this video! I was nervous about posting it because I know that Riley is a contentious character, so I wasn't sure how people were going to react.
I haven't thought about re-writing Buffy's and Spike's relationship, but that is an interesting idea. When I first watched the show, it also bothered me how mean Buffy was sometimes to Spike (I've since seen it so many times that I'm used to it). I didn't understand why she had to punch him when he was defenseless. That seemed unnecessarily cruel and odd coming from a hero. If I ever make a video about my nitpicks of this show, that would be on the list.
It may be a bit of a while before I get to the complicated relationships. I'm working on a video on Angel's and Spike's relationship, and I've come to realize that I don't feel ready to cover the large characters for this show, not in full anyway. This show is on a pedestal for me, nothing will be good enough. 😅So the next few Buffy videos will likely be on simpler relationships or smaller characters, I hope that's ok. I'm working my way up.
@@PensiveWhiskersNo Worries 🙂feeling intimidated is understandable for sure. The spike and angel relationship is interesting I never thought about that. I will look forward to your videos on the smaller characters to.
Uuuh, what an interesting idea: psychology nerd Riley. He would have brought something new to the group, such as "profiling" baddies. He wouldn't have to be right all the time, but it could have been a new element for some episodes. Buffy is also very intelligent and often strategic in analyzing her enemies, so there could have been an interesting back and forth between them. And as someone who likes academics he would have had an opinion, when Buffy dropped out. It could have also been one of his flaws, overanalyzing or making others uncomfortable with his truth bombs. And with the nice slow burn on top ;) --- I'd read that fanfiction ;)
I never actively disliked Riley until his jerkish behaviour in S5, but I did think he was a bit boring (until his jerkish behaviour in S5...), but I would have liked to see the little details they mention about him explored a little bit more. We see him coming from church once. How does his faith relate to demons and esp. Vampires who are influenced by Christian symbols? Is he devout or is going to church more a habit? Does he miss his family in Iowa and does he expect to go back eventually? How did he get into a secret military programme? How did he learn about demons...
omg I love this video. I rewatched Buffy for my review last month and I really disliked his character. I had to skip a lot of his scenes
Thank you! I'm looking forward to your review! I feel like Riley's plotline slowed down Season 4 so I could see why people would want to skip the scenes.
@ Pensive Whiskers you are a genius! Everything you said is spot on. Riley wasn’t deserving of all of the hate we just didn’t get a chance to really know him and Angel still felt very present. I agree with all of your ideas and the ideas put out there about Riley and Willow. In reality Spike was the a villain in the Buffy and Riley triangle but it was probably easier for fans to look past Spikes manipulations because fans knew and liked him already. Riley never had a chance between Angel and Spike. Xander would have probably done better? Lol
Thank you! 🙂 I don't think Riley deserves all the hate. It's fair to critique him for his actions in season 5 but it feels like other characters get off easier for worse actions. I personally love Xander but I'm afraid to think what the fandom would have done to him if he became the replacement. 😆
S4 Riley wasn't a bad person, but he was a frustrating character, partly because so many things about s4 were so underbaked. A better central conflict for the season would almost by necessity have also developed Riley better. If the Initiative were designed to be more appealing instead of obviously wrong from the start, if Buffy had joined them and worked with them for some time and was excited about their prospect for her future, she could have bonded with Riley as a teammate rather than as a weaker-and-clearly-misguided semi-rival.
I also think that if Buffy joined the Initiative earlier and had a stronger connection with the Initiative, it would have created a stronger storyline.
I was gonna say hating Riley is like hating vanilla ice cream. Then I remembered the gaslighting...
I like your fanfiction! 😅❤
Thank you! 😄It's fun to put fanfiction into video form.
@@PensiveWhiskers I'm new to Buffy and obsessed with Gilmore Girls so your finding your videos is like finding gold. 😁👌
I would like to see Andrew was a nerd lol appeared earlier or in season 6 and 7 with a better role to help. Eddy could be alive and a new friend. Riley i dont know just a friend and not a love interest was a better idea but for initiative arc soldiers had to be important. Or maybe make another main narrative arc
It would have been interesting to get Andrew's appearance earlier. I think if the show knew they were going to introduce Andrew, he probably would have popped out during the high school years.
Agree 150%.
This was great. Honestly, season 4 wasnt great and, I thiink it was probably because of Joss Whedon's involvement in angel for the first time at the same time and that the professor left halfway through unexpectedly
Thank you! I like season 4 because of the one-off episodes but I do have to admit that the overarching story for season 4 was pretty weak. I feel it had potential, but I don't think it hit that potential.
Season 4 is my top favorite because it feels so freeing in contrast to the dark and gloom tone of the other seasons.
I'm actually working on a video today about season 4. 🙂
Just here to say I love your work! Riley definitely was my least favorite character on the show. I really agree with you on him needing to be platonic friends with Buffy first.
Thank you so much! ☺ I think in his case, a friendship would have been a way to go. This video was a little out there, but I will have more normal Buffy videos in the future.
Wouldn't mind more out there videos also!@@PensiveWhiskers
I actually liked riley but it was too soon for buffy to move on from angel they should had started out as friends then later in season 4 start to have romantic feelings to me i really didn't like that the show did with him in season 5 i was glad that he got his happy ending in season 6
I also felt it was too soon. I never disliked Riley, but I was never able to emotionally invest in him as a character. I think it was mostly because their romance was started too soon. I liked his appearance in season 6 because he seemed to be a broken shell in season 5.
Give yourself some credit. You can be a writer too.
Hahaha, very true, thank you! I actually wanted to be a writer when I was younger. I wrote bad poetry (William the Bloody bad). I guess in a way, I'm writing now with these videos. 🙂
Honey, if you fixed Riley this way, Riley wouldn't have become codependent. The narrative falls apart.
What you seem to be missing is Riley is NOT suppose to compete. That's the tragedy.
My personal opinion? Riley's plotline is perfect.
I totally hear what you're saying, his whole narrative would change as a result. The thing is, I think the writers wanted Riley to be the guy for Buffy. They wanted him to compete. He was written off because fans didn't want him. So, I think the show failed him in making him desirable for a lot of people. This feels like one of those cases where the writers were hoping fans would feel one way, but everybody went in the opposite direction.
@PensiveWhiskers as a fan, I have a unique experience- I didn't see a single episode before season 4. That was my first year. To me, Riley IS the OG love interest. I wasn't able to watch the first three seasons until they came out on DVD. I think that gives me a different clarity on Buffy and Riley. The short assessment is that everything you said about Riley is right, but that's the beauty of his character. His world IS comically small. This is why he was so fragile when Maggie died. This is why his new identity became "Buffys boyfriend" and why he became SO needy! (Because he DIDN'T have a well rounded personality. The very things that made him a great soldier also made him really unbalanced in his personal life. Basically, he became 2001s version of "Beach Ken" when the military was gone.
There is a clinical term called "enmeshment". And you see it beautifully implode between Buffy and Riley. I was shocked at how on-the-money the conversations in those episodes were.
Most of our relationships fail before we find the one that doesn't. And not every failed relationship was with a monster. The exploration of having an unhealthy relationship with a great guy I find incredibly relatable and this is one of the best done explorations I think I've ever seen on television.
It is estimated 1 in 10 American males have purchased the services of s*x workers. It's an industry worth 150 billion annually. We can pretend 1 in 10 men are monsters, or we can explore why a decent guy (like Riley) would find the appeal of these services. And making Riley healthier would really undercut that exploration. Because, while common, it's an incredibly broken act to commit.
The confusion, the disgust, the anger bless all those writers for wading into that space.
That's a good point; Riley is a good representation of someone who doesn't know how to exist outside of a relationship. We do need to see those types of characters on screen. Even if the writers didn't intend it, it is good to have these characters on screen to reflect real life.
@PensiveWhiskers the writers built this up a long time. Even before the "she doesn't love me" line. I don't know what you mean by "the writers didn't intend". Their only misstep as far as I am concerned is how they wrote Rileys wife Sam. She's a super independent, highly competent go-getter that doesn't need him. That never rang true for me. In my head cannon, he married some local neurotic South American woman he rescued from monsters and brought back. (Think the Fred/Angel plotline, but Riley reciprocated, because you know he totally would).
Riley deserves better than Buffy
That's not a take I hear often! I'd love to hear your opinion on it, if you want to share it. 🙂