Thanks for another great learning experience. the parts you made are called split cotters, one formula for creating these is: D = bore being clamped, d = the diameter of the clamping bolt that sqeezes the two collets together (NOT the diameter of the collets) D/2 + d/2 + 0.02" = the centre to centre dimension for the split collet and bore.
Since I contacted you 2 years ago I finally got around to upgrading my quill lock. It went easier then I thought it would. Actually I just finished it up and it works great. I was amazed that the measurements you gave were very close to mine (I do believe different machines) . Anyway thanks for the idea and great video you did. It was easy to follow. Thanks again,Jim
Sure enough, it was something that was on my list for a long time. I've screw up a few projects because of the quill slipping. Nice to eliminate this possibility!
I've looked into this problem a few times and screwed up a few projects because of this problem. I have a friend that just sold his machine shop. He's been doing it for at least 40 years. I told him about the problem and we looked at his bridge port which he has in his personal shop and that's when I noticed the radius on the brass cylinders. I went very slightly too deep with the boring head but there still a lot more surface area that the original aluminum cylinders. I was worried that I might cut the brass rod in half and it would not clear the quill. At that point it would have been a challenge to fix. If you do this fix, be precise and don't go more than a couple thousands too deep. I think I went about .010 or .015. I doubt I'll ever have it move on my again (it holds fantastic) but I wish I had not cut quite that deep. I love the hex and being able to use a wrench too. Oh... You are welcome, I'm glad somebody can use the info.
I always learn several new methods and techniques when watching your excellent videos. Life is all about solving problems, but I’m afraid that in today’s schools, that lack shop classes, the ability to solve problems by critical thinking and tool use is sorely missed. Thankfully, there are men like you willing to share your abilities and thought processes with us👍😊
Yes the younger generation has a much different skill set. They look at fixing a lawnmower like I look at computer programming or an app on a cell phone. I think a lot of the difference is exposure. I could write an 3-page essay about this.... Thanks for your comment. It motivates me to do more.
I watched your video many months ago. Because I have one of these mills also,l watch every video I can to learn what others are doing and how they overcome some of the problems a round column mill can have. I think your fix is just great. I am surprised though that I haven’t seen any other owners (of this mill) talk about this. This summer I plan on doing some maintenance on my mill plus this fix. I will let you know how it works out for me.
That original quill lock was a real pain. It took me a while to figure out what was happening. I'd be .030" off on one end but I never saw it happen. Then one day I cleaned of the quill and put tape on it and saw the movement! After going to a friends shop and taking apart his bridgeport I had the answer.
Brilliant idea using a piece of hex bar instead of a hex collet, I can't afford the collet sets but now I don't need them. You've opened up a whole can of worms for me, thanks!
Yeah the hex stock worked great! I used this method again last night. The only negative is that you have to make a new block for each diameter. The block I made last night had a set screw in it to hold the shaft. It was a small shaft (3/8") but I'm sure it would work well with larger material as long as you take small cuts with the mill.
Hi, I always liked working with brass as it's color is akin to gold when it shows a freshly machined surface. It can terrify a machinist when a tap starts to squeal though, LOL. This upgrade is perfect my friend. You always have something interesting going on. Thanks bud. Great post.
@@WinkysWorkshop It makes a fella wonder why it wasn't like your mod from the start. In process of manufacturing this could have been easily done from the beginning. Now it has been "Winkieded" never to fail again, LOL.
@@TomokosEnterprize I'm guessing it was partly oversight and perhaps cost. The original was just a bevel and did not conform to the quill. I went and looked at a friends Bridgeport and copied it. It was basically a lack of surface area at the contact point.
@@WinkysWorkshop Poor contact at the wrong place methinks. It is always nice to visit with a like minded fella such as your self. Thanks a bunch and see you next post my friend.
@@TomokosEnterprize The original blocks were a simple bevel. They did not contours the quill. It was only pin point pressure. The blocks I made match the curve of the quill so the surface are is huge in comparison.
Your next project on modification of your mill should be to take the slop out of the down feed gear that engages the quill. I saw this fix done by the late Heinz Kegler. Heinz made new bushings for the shaft that carries the gear that engages the quill. The trick is that he bored the bushings with ~0.030" (0.75mm) offset using the 4 jaw chuck in the lathe. Now the back lash between the gear and the quill rack could be adjusted to remove most of the slop. Cheers from NC/USA
Hi Wink, like i had mentioned before....i've always had some kind of machinery that i rebuild.in the last five years,going on 6 yrs.i have rebuilt 3 lathes (southbend,one small mini mill and one medium size drill press that i converted to a mill,that works really nice....so like i said i try to keep busy. in the garage or basement,and then what do i do,i usually sell them by word of mouth or on craigslist.......and i just keep going..i just finished a nice small vintage drill press,which i'll be selling also.i don't have much room left downstairs in the basement.......please keep up with videos.i really enjoy them......
Great tip. Recently (Feb 06/ 21) picked up a R-F 30 still not powered up, but this is great too know if the quill lock won't hold. Had no problems with the 1980 Enco, but found it better built than the Fu, Thx ,Bear
Well the Enco's are an RF 30 (Rong Fu). Enco may have specified specific quality or options however. Mine is the Enco version. Overall I'm happy with it but I have also done a lot to it to make it more user friendly. I've added DROs, power lift and guide bar plus fixed the quill lock and also fixed a lead screw alignment issue which made the table bind at one end of the travel. You might want to watch this video also. ua-cam.com/video/_2JXRt3_4qw/v-deo.html Thanks!
Ok, two years on and thank you. May be needed on my Optimum BF30. I've had an annoying over cut with a large end mill - still need to work out if it was the lock or the collet.
called a split cotter. I have one on my drill press quill lock. the Taiwanese made drill had threaded one on it originally. Guy Lautard in his first book has a bit about making and using them on several different projects.
Interesting. I've always preferred the split casting clamp. I mean obviously if it's being used on a Bridgeport it can work well. I used to have a Taiwan made drill press that had the split cotter and it was made with a sloppy bore for the quill. Every time I locked it down the quill moved. In fact it even moved when it was locked down. With the split casting you can leave it partly locked and drill accurately. The casting clamps the quill in a larger area. The RF30 mill also moved but only about .002". I also suspect the quill moves a little even if it is locked firmly although it may be better after my modification.
Winky, well done and a great fix. Just an observation and a possible mishap waiting for next time, with your hex sleeve you used for indexing. When you had the part clamped in your vice, it was only clamping onto the hex part. You would have been relying on how tight the nut was to stop your part rotating in the event of the cutter snatching. I also noticed that on some of your cuts that the work was flexing slightly in the vice. A better solution though time consuming would have been to try and find 2 shims that were the difference of the hex width and your work diameter and place one on either side of your work and the vice jaws. Upon me just watching it again, I see that you had the hex flat to the vice bottom, which meant that the hex was only gripping on the points, which made even more gap for your part between itself and the vice jaws.
Yeah.... I had the nut just about as tight as I could get it but gripping the corners of the hex was not the best practice. The reason I did this is that the scrap of hex I had was rounded on the corners on each end and it didn't sit over the gap in the bottom of my vice. In hindsight, I should have laid a spacer over the gap and clamped the flats. As for the movement you saw, it never moved, it was quite solid. I watched the video again and what you are seeing is where I used cross fading between the video cuts. I edited out a lot of the cutting just because it was boring to watch. It did look like it was moving but again, just the video editing. Next time I use this method I'll lay something in the bottom of the vice and grip the flats. Thanks for pointing that out... it made me think it through.
I took a 1/2 spring, and put it between the 2 halves, and it helps release the lock, and it holds enough pressure on the 1/2s that it holds the lock handle where you leave it.
I really enjoy watching your videos. I just bought the rf-30 clone from Harbour freight and I am in the process of ordering the accessories I'll need to use it. What size vice do you recommend. I can't tell if your using a 5 or a 6 inch vice. Thanks in advance!
While making an attachment to hold a digital caliper for the down feed on my RF mill I pulled the quill lock out to get the handle out of the way. The quill suffers from the same ailment as yours did and I thought that copying what you did would be a good project. My RF mill was made in the late 80's. I thought I might use the same clamping bolt with new radiused pieces. After some investigation I finally finally figured out what those jokers in Taiwan had done in making the clamp assembly...I busted out laughing when I figured it out. The clamping screw/handle does not have a metric thread. Well it must be Unified National.. visually it looks like a 1/2-13 UNC. Nope, its a 1/2" -12 British Standard Whitworth. Further investigation showed the fixing screws for the front plastic cover on the mill head are also 1/4"-20 BSW. The lesson is that just because the machine tool was made in a certain country you can't automatically assume that all the threaded fasteners are the same. I wasn't all that surprised about the mill. My Taiwanese built Darsin bench lathe is a metric mechine... except for all the control levers.. they're Unified National. Cheers from NC/USA
I should have covered that in my video (sorry)... I don't know what kind of thread they used... Never did figure it out! Crazy huh? I've had similar problems. When I first got my mill the table travel was very tight at one end. The bracket behind the long axis hand wheel was mounted off center and the lead screw was trying to flex as it approached one end. One bolt hole was in the wrong location and the other was cross threaded. I had to mill the holes slotted to get it out of a bind. Both bolts were 5/16" -18. I can't justify spending the money on a Bridgeport but these Rong Fu mills have a lot of issues.
@@WinkysWorkshop The RF is ok for what it is. The problem with the Bridgeport or it's clones is just how big it is for most home workshops. The hot ticket is the Atlas Clausing knee mill.. They're hard to find at a reasonable price. You have to keep an eye out on Craigs list and hope one shows up. www.lathes.co.uk/clausing%20vertical/ Cheers from NC/USA
The manufacturer should have used brass to start with! My experience with that type of lock is that more contact area doesn't help that much. More contact area = less PSI, and more oil contact area. But I much rather your fix. It's easier on the quill if nothing else.
Well... I just compared the bridgeport lock to mine and the bridgeport contoured the quill. I understand your logic but the new lock is way more effective. And yes, I was worried about the quill with the old lock because I had to tighten it super tight to get it to hold. I guess it could also be the fact that it is brass but I also think surface area plays a big part.
As an aside have you had any problems with the control nuts on the x & y axis? I found with the RF30 I used to have they (the nuts) were manufactured from rather crappy brass, wore out after 30 years of home use. I ended up making some from delron, can find the instructions somewhere on the net... Cheers
So for the nuts are doing fine. They have interesting backlash adjustments on them. I can tell that they have been adjusted and there isn't much adjustment left but I don't think I'll ever have to worry about them. But thanks for the info... you never know. I've had to address a lot of other issues however. When i got the mill it would bind on one end of the table travel. It was the mounting bracket on one end of the lead screw that was off center. I slotted all the holes almost 1/8" to get it to line up. One hole was positioned rong and the other was cross thread to line up. ("Rong" Fu)
I have a mod for this if you're interested I made about 15 years ago on my mill drill. I put the Z axis DRO (just like yours) so I could fine adjust the spindle up and down, but every time I loosened the quill it would drop to the end of the backlash and my setting was gone. I wanted it to act more like a knee on a Bridgeport. So I took the pin (your brass piece) on the handle end , counterbored it and installed a steel sleeve (like a bushing) in the pin (about .093" wall) around the handle thread, with a compression spring under it and a dog point set screw in a slot in the sleeve from each side that allowed the steel steel sleeve to protrude about 0.060" from the end of the pin (with a preload force from the compressed spring) and then compress flat against the end of the pin. I used a low rate spring so the force would remain mostly constant in the 0.060" travel. (you might have to read that twice) What did it do? With a washer on top of it, when you tighten the handle, the sleeve compresses and it tightens normally and locks the quill. When you loosen the handle, there on full turn where the quill locking pins (the cotter) apply just enough force to create a light drag on the spindle (quill) to hold it in its position and still allow you to easily move it up and down to adjust it. Loosen it further and it's completely free. It was one of the best things I came up with, If you think you might want to try it, I can give you a little more detail. I hope you can envision how it works.
That might not have been real clear. If you held the finished pin assembly straight up and looked at it from the side, you would see the steel sleeve sticking up out of it about 1/16" (0.060"). If you press on the end, it will not move until you exert a high enough force (it's preloaded) and then you can push it down flush. That's it.
Thats a great idea. I have done the same by carefully loosening a little but that is hard to control. Sometimes I miss my depth stop, did you remove yours when you installed the DRO?
@@WinkysWorkshop I mounted the DRO scale to the left and kept the stop. I made a zero backlash linkage by drilling a hole in each end of a piece of hex stock, drilled and reamed a cross hole near each end, put a spring in the end first, then a short pin on top then pushed a shoulder bolt thru the cross hole (for each end). One shoulder screw attached to the spindle and one to the DRO scale. The linkage can set at a small angle even and it will have no effect or error.
Hello - I have really enjoyed watching your projects, especially the square column for your drill press. I have the same mill/drill as you, but mine is Jet branded. I put a glass DRO on all three axis of my mill/drill and the Z jumps around so much, that it is just about useless. Is this the same problem that you were having? Do you think that your fix will solve my problem? Since I have about the same machine as you, I would love to see more projects that involve it. Thanks!
The only problem I had with the z axis is slipping on heaver cuts and the down feed crank is spongy. The DRO helped a bunch. The dial on the down feed was useless. You might get .002 or you might get .020. I never did figure out why. All my DROs are very cheap. x was $39 Y was $29 and I think Z was about $30. I like the Z the best because it was easy to mount and shuts off. I had the X axis quit a few weeks ago. Probably my fault for not protecting it very well from coolant.
Off subject but noticed you using your latest cutoff tool holder, which I copied, works great but noticed that the cutoff blades vary a couple thou in heigth and cut the clamping slot a bit deeper and then the holder worked for the shorter blades!
I just drilled a piece of hex stock and put the threaded part through it and used a nut to secure it. It worked amazingly well. One person commented that he saw it move while I was milling the hex but that was where I used cross fade when I edited part of the video out. The stock never moved.
No but honestly I would not recommend doing it the way I did it. In fact I may do a video is how I improve this DRO. I basically sacrificed my depth stop. It works fantastic but I miss my depth stop!
well done, I see that you only have a small amount of movement with your spanner, you could put a arm with a knob on it and would not hit the torsion spring housing. just my observation.
I agree I was thinking about cutting off a boxed end wrench and put a screw and washer on the end of the hex to retain the wrench but a pin and knob would look better.
I probably didn't explain that well enough. The round pieces didn't have a radius on them. They were just cut off at an angle. The amount of surface areas that touched the quill was very small and it slipped while milling. I looked at a Bridgeport and copied the design.
Should have wrapped it around what it was made for before cutting it I half bro… drop the quil down and fit the part against it to see if you’re playing it safe or accurate?
The quill never slipped again, it worked perfect. FYI - I just sold this mill maybe 3 weeks ago and I now have Wells Index mill. The new mill is a very high quality and heavy and does perform better than the RF30. However, I was surprised that the difference between the mills was not more substantial. The RF30 has some issues but it's also a very capable machine.
@@WinkysWorkshop I've never had my spindle apart in my mill drill. Mine is exactly the same as yours .... it's a JET. I wonder how hard it'd be to change out the bearings to taper bearings that can be preloaded. I believe the existing bearings are just standard bearings.
@@dizzolve I have a PDF file on how to do this. winkysworkshop@GMX.com. I've never done this but I have been thinking about it. They are opposing tapered roller bearings that take grease. The reason I have been avoiding this is that the bearings have a preload. I'm hoping to be able to inject grease into the bearings but I'm not sure the bottom bearing is accessible. If you take the bearing apart the preload is hard to set right. The problem is grease. If the bearings are oil lubricated you set the preload so that you feel a very slight resistance but this resistance is hard to judge with greased bearings.
@@WinkysWorkshop I decided to do this mod. It looks to me like the existing handle thread is a 1/2" 12tpi which is pretty rare isn't it? I see 1/2" 13 all the time. I'm going to have to single point it since I don't have the tap. Is yours the same?
Thanks for the compliments! It's a problem that has been a pain for a while. Feed a bit too fast and the depth of cut gets deeper! It's nice to finally get t fixed.
My RF30 clone has the same problem with the quill slipping, it is very annoying for sure. I like your approach to it and will probably do something along the same lines but try to retain the original handle.
I was going to use the original handle but the threads didn't match any standard of metric threads that I could find. I'll probably mount a handle on mine at some point.
Nice fix. I have an atlas 7b shaper and it uses a setup like what you built (but made for aluminum) problem is it smushes the inside diameter and fouls the locking bolt. Maybe I will try a chunk of bronze I have to replace it.
Wow... Not good. Do the threads go through the aluminum? If so, try making a lock bolt without threads in the aluminum spacer area. If the bolt is smooth maybe brass would help. You could also put a steel sleeve in the aluminum.
@@WinkysWorkshop I hadn't thought about the steel sleave. I think a portion of the threads go through the aluminum. Its been a while since I had it apart
That was fun. I was wondering how you were going to cut the radius of the quill?? Well done sir. Go get a hex 5C collet, much easier. I like the size of that mill. Not too big and not too small, from here anyway.
Thanks for another great learning experience. the parts you made are called split cotters, one formula for creating these is: D = bore being clamped, d = the diameter of the clamping bolt that sqeezes the two collets together (NOT the diameter of
the collets)
D/2 + d/2 + 0.02" = the centre to centre dimension for the split collet and bore.
Interesting how you apply math. Not a bad thing but my mind gets the same results without math. Just a different thought process.
I’ve been having some issues with my machine and I think this video is exactly what I needed. Thank you!!
Glad I could help! I also had problems with the mill slipping in my collet. I replaced several and this helped.
Since I contacted you 2 years ago I finally got around to upgrading my quill lock. It went easier then I thought it would. Actually I just finished it up and it works great. I was amazed that the measurements you gave were very close to mine (I do believe different machines) . Anyway thanks for the idea and great video you did. It was easy to follow. Thanks again,Jim
Great to hear! Thanks for getting back with me!
One of those little jobs makes you feel good when you've done. Nice work sir.
Sure enough, it was something that was on my list for a long time. I've screw up a few projects because of the quill slipping. Nice to eliminate this possibility!
I continue to be amazed each time i return to your channel. I really need this fix on my RF. Thanks for sharing all you do.
Wow, thanks!
That is a fix I have been looking for for 10 years. Thanks!
I've looked into this problem a few times and screwed up a few projects because of this problem. I have a friend that just sold his machine shop. He's been doing it for at least 40 years. I told him about the problem and we looked at his bridge port which he has in his personal shop and that's when I noticed the radius on the brass cylinders. I went very slightly too deep with the boring head but there still a lot more surface area that the original aluminum cylinders. I was worried that I might cut the brass rod in half and it would not clear the quill. At that point it would have been a challenge to fix. If you do this fix, be precise and don't go more than a couple thousands too deep. I think I went about .010 or .015. I doubt I'll ever have it move on my again (it holds fantastic) but I wish I had not cut quite that deep. I love the hex and being able to use a wrench too. Oh... You are welcome, I'm glad somebody can use the info.
I always learn several new methods and techniques when watching your excellent videos. Life is all about solving problems, but I’m afraid that in today’s schools, that lack shop classes, the ability to solve problems by critical thinking and tool use is sorely missed. Thankfully, there are men like you willing to share your abilities and thought processes with us👍😊
Yes the younger generation has a much different skill set. They look at fixing a lawnmower like I look at computer programming or an app on a cell phone. I think a lot of the difference is exposure. I could write an 3-page essay about this.... Thanks for your comment. It motivates me to do more.
I watched your video many months ago. Because I have one of these mills also,l watch every video I can to learn what others are doing and how they overcome some of the problems a round column mill can have. I think your fix is just great. I am surprised though that I haven’t seen any other owners (of this mill) talk about this. This summer I plan on doing some maintenance on my mill plus this fix. I will let you know how it works out for me.
That original quill lock was a real pain. It took me a while to figure out what was happening. I'd be .030" off on one end but I never saw it happen. Then one day I cleaned of the quill and put tape on it and saw the movement! After going to a friends shop and taking apart his bridgeport I had the answer.
Brilliant idea using a piece of hex bar instead of a hex collet, I can't afford the collet sets but now I don't need them. You've opened up a whole can of worms for me, thanks!
Yeah the hex stock worked great! I used this method again last night. The only negative is that you have to make a new block for each diameter. The block I made last night had a set screw in it to hold the shaft. It was a small shaft (3/8") but I'm sure it would work well with larger material as long as you take small cuts with the mill.
@@WinkysWorkshop I'll be giving it a try!
Hi, I always liked working with brass as it's color is akin to gold when it shows a freshly machined surface. It can terrify a machinist when a tap starts to squeal though, LOL. This upgrade is perfect my friend. You always have something interesting going on. Thanks bud. Great post.
Thanks, it worked perfectly
@@WinkysWorkshop It makes a fella wonder why it wasn't like your mod from the start. In process of manufacturing this could have been easily done from the beginning. Now it has been "Winkieded" never to fail again, LOL.
@@TomokosEnterprize I'm guessing it was partly oversight and perhaps cost. The original was just a bevel and did not conform to the quill. I went and looked at a friends Bridgeport and copied it. It was basically a lack of surface area at the contact point.
@@WinkysWorkshop Poor contact at the wrong place methinks. It is always nice to visit with a like minded fella such as your self. Thanks a bunch and see you next post my friend.
@@TomokosEnterprize The original blocks were a simple bevel. They did not contours the quill. It was only pin point pressure. The blocks I made match the curve of the quill so the surface are is huge in comparison.
Your next project on modification of your mill should be to take the slop out of the down feed gear that engages the quill.
I saw this fix done by the late Heinz Kegler. Heinz made new bushings for the shaft that carries the gear that engages the quill. The trick is that he bored the bushings with ~0.030" (0.75mm) offset using the 4 jaw chuck in the lathe. Now the back lash between the gear and the quill rack could be adjusted to remove most of the slop.
Cheers from NC/USA
Sorry for the delay... Thanks, I need to look into this.
Hi Wink,
like i had mentioned before....i've always had some kind of machinery that i rebuild.in the last five years,going on 6 yrs.i have rebuilt 3 lathes (southbend,one small mini mill and one medium size drill press that i converted to a mill,that works really nice....so like i said i try to keep busy. in the garage or basement,and then what do i do,i usually sell them by word of mouth or on craigslist.......and i just keep going..i just finished a nice small vintage drill press,which i'll be selling also.i don't have much room left downstairs in the basement.......please keep up with videos.i really enjoy them......
That's great. Drill press into a mill... that's amazing. I'll keep on the the videos... thats the plan anyway. Thanks.
Good job Winky! Stay healthy my friend!
Thanks, You too!
Necessity is the mother of invention. Loved how you used a coupling nut for your next "guide."
I actually drilled some hex stock but the coupling nut is a great option. I wonder how but they make them?
very good video..thanks for your time
You are welcome
Nice fix! I have the smaller version, RF 20, with the same problem. Now I know how to fix it. 😊
Thank You for the video sir.
/Leif
Thanks great! Glad somebody can benefit from my videos!
Good job Mr. Winky! Keep up the good videos!
Thank you kindly
Excellent problem solving and good work 👍🏻
Thanks!
Great tip. Recently (Feb 06/ 21) picked up a R-F 30 still not powered up, but this is great too know if the quill lock won't hold. Had no problems with the 1980 Enco, but found it better built than the Fu, Thx ,Bear
Well the Enco's are an RF 30 (Rong Fu). Enco may have specified specific quality or options however. Mine is the Enco version. Overall I'm happy with it but I have also done a lot to it to make it more user friendly. I've added DROs, power lift and guide bar plus fixed the quill lock and also fixed a lead screw alignment issue which made the table bind at one end of the travel. You might want to watch this video also. ua-cam.com/video/_2JXRt3_4qw/v-deo.html Thanks!
Great job. That is exactly, what I need for my mill.
Thanks! Yes, I had a lot of problem getting the quill to lock firmly before I did this. It's never slipped again!
Very cool fix, great idea.
Thanks 👍
Thank you I will be doing this to my mill this weekend
Good luck. This totally cured my quill slipping. In my case I also had a 1/2" collet slipping so be sure and check your collets for wear.
great job , Works sweet ! ENJOYED
Thanks you, and thanks for watching!
Hi Wink,
thanks for sharing,nice video.we have the same mill rf30 mill.
I'm guessing your quill also slips... several have commented that they have the same problem. Thanks for watching!
Ok, two years on and thank you. May be needed on my Optimum BF30. I've had an annoying over cut with a large end mill - still need to work out if it was the lock or the collet.
Both my collet and the quill lock were slipping. The lock slipped with large end mills and my 1/2" collet was worn bad. Good to check both.
Improvise, adapt, & overcome!
Not sure if that was the proper methods of doing that but,
you Got-R-Done!
Good job, good share, Thanx for showin!
Thanks 👍 It worked great.
It's always nice to deal with one of those little annoyances, nice fix :)
Yeah... it's been on my list for a while. Glad I looked at the Bridgeport mill.
Nice fix sir!
Thanks!
Hex stock idea is great.
Thanks!
Beautiful work, I would not have thought of that setup. Thanks!
Thanks you sir
called a split cotter. I have one on my drill press quill lock. the Taiwanese made drill had threaded one on it originally. Guy Lautard in his first book has a bit about making and using them on several different projects.
Interesting. I've always preferred the split casting clamp. I mean obviously if it's being used on a Bridgeport it can work well. I used to have a Taiwan made drill press that had the split cotter and it was made with a sloppy bore for the quill. Every time I locked it down the quill moved. In fact it even moved when it was locked down. With the split casting you can leave it partly locked and drill accurately. The casting clamps the quill in a larger area. The RF30 mill also moved but only about .002". I also suspect the quill moves a little even if it is locked firmly although it may be better after my modification.
FYI: That type of clamp is called a 'Cotter'.
I didn't know that, thanks
👍Thanks for your videos.
Your welcome, thanks for watching.
Winky, well done and a great fix. Just an observation and a possible mishap waiting for next time, with your hex sleeve you used for indexing. When you had the part clamped in your vice, it was only clamping onto the hex part. You would have been relying on how tight the nut was to stop your part rotating in the event of the cutter snatching. I also noticed that on some of your cuts that the work was flexing slightly in the vice. A better solution though time consuming would have been to try and find 2 shims that were the difference of the hex width and your work diameter and place one on either side of your work and the vice jaws. Upon me just watching it again, I see that you had the hex flat to the vice bottom, which meant that the hex was only gripping on the points, which made even more gap for your part between itself and the vice jaws.
Yeah.... I had the nut just about as tight as I could get it but gripping the corners of the hex was not the best practice. The reason I did this is that the scrap of hex I had was rounded on the corners on each end and it didn't sit over the gap in the bottom of my vice. In hindsight, I should have laid a spacer over the gap and clamped the flats. As for the movement you saw, it never moved, it was quite solid. I watched the video again and what you are seeing is where I used cross fading between the video cuts. I edited out a lot of the cutting just because it was boring to watch. It did look like it was moving but again, just the video editing. Next time I use this method I'll lay something in the bottom of the vice and grip the flats. Thanks for pointing that out... it made me think it through.
Very cleaver, I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks... it totally fixed the quill slipping.
I took a 1/2 spring, and put it between the 2 halves, and it helps release the lock, and it holds enough pressure on the 1/2s that it holds the lock handle where you leave it.
Interesting... Mine never sticks. maybe my angle isn't perfect.
Again nice job!
Thanks!
@@WinkysWorkshop I was going to say before you made the hex. Make a handle like your vise
Nice work
Thanks
Resourceful.
I really enjoy watching your videos. I just bought the rf-30 clone from Harbour freight and I am in the process of ordering the accessories I'll need to use it. What size vice do you recommend. I can't tell if your using a 5 or a 6 inch vice. Thanks in advance!
I think mine is a 5 inch. It's adequate for the size of the mill I think.
Hi Mark yep have the same mill but i must be luck my quill is tight as but really like your dro for quill though
Sorry for the delay, mine only slipped under heavy load. I like my DRO too but I kinda miss my depth stop.
nice idea for indexing hex
Thanks - Cheaper than a collet holder!
While making an attachment to hold a digital caliper for the down feed on my RF mill I pulled the quill lock out to get the handle out of the way. The quill suffers from the same ailment as yours did and I thought that copying what you did would be a good project.
My RF mill was made in the late 80's. I thought I might use the same clamping bolt with new radiused pieces.
After some investigation I finally finally figured out what those jokers in Taiwan had done in making the clamp assembly...I busted out laughing when I figured it out. The clamping screw/handle does not have a metric thread. Well it must be Unified National.. visually it looks like a 1/2-13 UNC. Nope, its a 1/2" -12 British Standard Whitworth. Further investigation showed the fixing screws for the front plastic cover on the mill head are also 1/4"-20 BSW.
The lesson is that just because the machine tool was made in a certain country you can't automatically assume that all the threaded fasteners are the same. I wasn't all that surprised about the mill. My Taiwanese built Darsin bench lathe is a metric mechine... except for all the control levers.. they're Unified National.
Cheers from NC/USA
I should have covered that in my video (sorry)... I don't know what kind of thread they used... Never did figure it out! Crazy huh? I've had similar problems. When I first got my mill the table travel was very tight at one end. The bracket behind the long axis hand wheel was mounted off center and the lead screw was trying to flex as it approached one end. One bolt hole was in the wrong location and the other was cross threaded. I had to mill the holes slotted to get it out of a bind. Both bolts were 5/16" -18. I can't justify spending the money on a Bridgeport but these Rong Fu mills have a lot of issues.
@@WinkysWorkshop The RF is ok for what it is. The problem with the Bridgeport or it's clones is just how big it is for most home workshops. The hot ticket is the Atlas Clausing knee mill.. They're hard to find at a reasonable price. You have to keep an eye out on Craigs list and hope one shows up.
www.lathes.co.uk/clausing%20vertical/
Cheers from NC/USA
Nice video
Thank you sir
Nice!
Thanks!
The manufacturer should have used brass to start with! My experience with that type of lock is that more contact area doesn't help that much. More contact area = less PSI, and more oil contact area. But I much rather your fix. It's easier on the quill if nothing else.
Well... I just compared the bridgeport lock to mine and the bridgeport contoured the quill. I understand your logic but the new lock is way more effective. And yes, I was worried about the quill with the old lock because I had to tighten it super tight to get it to hold. I guess it could also be the fact that it is brass but I also think surface area plays a big part.
Nice work, Would this be the same for the RF-46 clones?
I'm not sure.
As an aside have you had any problems with the control nuts on the x & y axis? I found with the RF30 I used to have they (the nuts) were manufactured from rather crappy brass, wore out after 30 years of home use. I ended up making some from delron, can find the instructions somewhere on the net... Cheers
So for the nuts are doing fine. They have interesting backlash adjustments on them. I can tell that they have been adjusted and there isn't much adjustment left but I don't think I'll ever have to worry about them. But thanks for the info... you never know. I've had to address a lot of other issues however. When i got the mill it would bind on one end of the table travel. It was the mounting bracket on one end of the lead screw that was off center. I slotted all the holes almost 1/8" to get it to line up. One hole was positioned rong and the other was cross thread to line up. ("Rong" Fu)
I have a mod for this if you're interested I made about 15 years ago on my mill drill. I put the Z axis DRO (just like yours) so I could fine adjust the spindle up and down, but every time I loosened the quill it would drop to the end of the backlash and my setting was gone. I wanted it to act more like a knee on a Bridgeport.
So I took the pin (your brass piece) on the handle end , counterbored it and installed a steel sleeve (like a bushing) in the pin (about .093" wall) around the handle thread, with a compression spring under it and a dog point set screw in a slot in the sleeve from each side that allowed the steel steel sleeve to protrude about 0.060" from the end of the pin (with a preload force from the compressed spring) and then compress flat against the end of the pin. I used a low rate spring so the force would remain mostly constant in the 0.060" travel. (you might have to read that twice)
What did it do? With a washer on top of it, when you tighten the handle, the sleeve compresses and it tightens normally and locks the quill. When you loosen the handle, there on full turn where the quill locking pins (the cotter) apply just enough force to create a light drag on the spindle (quill) to hold it in its position and still allow you to easily move it up and down to adjust it. Loosen it further and it's completely free. It was one of the best things I came up with, If you think you might want to try it, I can give you a little more detail. I hope you can envision how it works.
Edit: "there is one full turn where the quill locking pins...
That might not have been real clear. If you held the finished pin assembly straight up and looked at it from the side, you would see the steel sleeve sticking up out of it about 1/16" (0.060"). If you press on the end, it will not move until you exert a high enough force (it's preloaded) and then you can push it down flush. That's it.
Thats a great idea. I have done the same by carefully loosening a little but that is hard to control. Sometimes I miss my depth stop, did you remove yours when you installed the DRO?
I got it i think... thanks
@@WinkysWorkshop I mounted the DRO scale to the left and kept the stop. I made a zero backlash linkage by drilling a hole in each end of a piece of hex stock, drilled and reamed a cross hole near each end, put a spring in the end first, then a short pin on top then pushed a shoulder bolt thru the cross hole (for each end). One shoulder screw attached to the spindle and one to the DRO scale. The linkage can set at a small angle even and it will have no effect or error.
Awesome adapting to the situation to get the job done.
Thanks Anthony!
👍👍👏👏
Hello - I have really enjoyed watching your projects, especially the square column for your drill press. I have the same mill/drill as you, but mine is Jet branded. I put a glass DRO on all three axis of my mill/drill and the Z jumps around so much, that it is just about useless. Is this the same problem that you were having? Do you think that your fix will solve my problem? Since I have about the same machine as you, I would love to see more projects that involve it.
Thanks!
The only problem I had with the z axis is slipping on heaver cuts and the down feed crank is spongy. The DRO helped a bunch. The dial on the down feed was useless. You might get .002 or you might get .020. I never did figure out why. All my DROs are very cheap. x was $39 Y was $29 and I think Z was about $30. I like the Z the best because it was easy to mount and shuts off. I had the X axis quit a few weeks ago. Probably my fault for not protecting it very well from coolant.
Make sure the column gib screws are smudged down good .. if not it will cause Z axis to move around. WINKY always does a good job.
@@RagsdaleCreek - Your too nice! But thanks.
Off subject but noticed you using your latest cutoff tool holder, which I copied, works great but noticed that the cutoff blades vary a couple thou in heigth and cut the clamping slot a bit deeper and then the holder worked for the shorter blades!
Glad you liked the tool holder. So far I haven't had to buy a new blade for them.
what were you using as a reference to get that hex I guess I missed it darn the bad luck I will re watch video good for views as well
I just drilled a piece of hex stock and put the threaded part through it and used a nut to secure it. It worked amazingly well. One person commented that he saw it move while I was milling the hex but that was where I used cross fade when I edited part of the video out. The stock never moved.
Could have made a tommy bar, this would have enabled you to miss your spring housing 👍
True. I put a cut off boxed end wrench on it and washer and screw to hold it on.
do these mills have a way to adjust the downfeed worm for backlash
I wondered the same but if you adjust the quill return spring a little tighter the backlash problem goes away.
Like the smoke. No cutting oil?
No need... I'd rather have a little smoke than to deal with the mess. Carbide is immune to the heat anyway.
Do you have a video of how you did your z axis dro set up?
No but honestly I would not recommend doing it the way I did it. In fact I may do a video is how I improve this DRO. I basically sacrificed my depth stop. It works fantastic but I miss my depth stop!
well done, I see that you only have a small amount of movement with your spanner, you could put a arm with a knob on it and would not hit the torsion spring housing. just my observation.
I agree I was thinking about cutting off a boxed end wrench and put a screw and washer on the end of the hex to retain the wrench but a pin and knob would look better.
Mine is a Grizzly mill. looks the same. my problem is the depth stop will not stay. i am trying to figure a good fix for this!!!
I took mine off and installed a DRO in it's place but sometimes i miss it. I agree, it needs a lock.
Can you use aluminum stock 1 1/4?
I used brass because the Bridgeport I looked at had brass. I think aluminum would work great although I can not say for certain.
yes it did.until i made new pieces for it some time ago....
Really? Similar to mine?
What was wrong with using the original locking handle?
I probably didn't explain that well enough. The round pieces didn't have a radius on them. They were just cut off at an angle. The amount of surface areas that touched the quill was very small and it slipped while milling. I looked at a Bridgeport and copied the design.
Should have wrapped it around what it was made for before cutting it I half bro… drop the quil down and fit the part against it to see if you’re playing it safe or accurate?
Yeah... very true but I was confident my diameter was right. Still it would have been a good idea.
three years down the track dose the quill slip at all. id like to copy your idea. with your permission please winky's workshop
The quill never slipped again, it worked perfect. FYI - I just sold this mill maybe 3 weeks ago and I now have Wells Index mill. The new mill is a very high quality and heavy and does perform better than the RF30. However, I was surprised that the difference between the mills was not more substantial. The RF30 has some issues but it's also a very capable machine.
I bet this mod gives you a cleaner more stable cut too. Have you noticed a surface finish improvement
To some degree although not as much as I would have thought. The quill still moves a little while milling. It never slips however.
@@WinkysWorkshop I've never had my spindle apart in my mill drill. Mine is exactly the same as yours .... it's a JET. I wonder how hard it'd be to change out the bearings to taper bearings that can be preloaded. I believe the existing bearings are just standard bearings.
@@dizzolve I have a PDF file on how to do this. winkysworkshop@GMX.com. I've never done this but I have been thinking about it. They are opposing tapered roller bearings that take grease. The reason I have been avoiding this is that the bearings have a preload. I'm hoping to be able to inject grease into the bearings but I'm not sure the bottom bearing is accessible. If you take the bearing apart the preload is hard to set right. The problem is grease. If the bearings are oil lubricated you set the preload so that you feel a very slight resistance but this resistance is hard to judge with greased bearings.
@@WinkysWorkshop I decided to do this mod. It looks to me like the existing handle thread is a 1/2" 12tpi which is pretty rare isn't it? I see 1/2" 13 all the time. I'm going to have to single point it since I don't have the tap. Is yours the same?
@@dizzolve I can't remember actually but I made a new bolt for mine and used 1/2-13 I think.
That was well done there Winky. Great problem solving.
Thanks for the compliments! It's a problem that has been a pain for a while. Feed a bit too fast and the depth of cut gets deeper! It's nice to finally get t fixed.
My RF30 clone has the same problem with the quill slipping, it is very annoying for sure. I like your approach to it and will probably do something along the same lines but try to retain the original handle.
I was going to use the original handle but the threads didn't match any standard of metric threads that I could find. I'll probably mount a handle on mine at some point.
Problem solved!
I see you used your hex stock for reference that's why you got a little slop which was okay by you I see says the deaf man who could see but not hear
Yeah... I went slightly too far but not much.
Nice fix. I have an atlas 7b shaper and it uses a setup like what you built (but made for aluminum) problem is it smushes the inside diameter and fouls the locking bolt. Maybe I will try a chunk of bronze I have to replace it.
Wow... Not good. Do the threads go through the aluminum? If so, try making a lock bolt without threads in the aluminum spacer area. If the bolt is smooth maybe brass would help. You could also put a steel sleeve in the aluminum.
@@WinkysWorkshop I hadn't thought about the steel sleave. I think a portion of the threads go through the aluminum. Its been a while since I had it apart
That was fun. I was wondering how you were going to cut the radius of the quill??
Well done sir. Go get a hex 5C collet, much easier.
I like the size of that mill. Not too big and not too small, from here anyway.
Thanks, Sorry for the slow reply. I had to think about chow to measure the depth of the cut.
I probably would have used a hole saw.
That may have worked if you had the right diameter. I didn't think of that!
hi i have the same rf-30 mill how much would you charge me for the brass parts only?
Ah.. you can do it! I'm not interested really. But thanks for asking
very good video..thanks for your time
You are welcome