@Sean Hillman In that case, that one priest that openly admits to worship Leira would be the last one to be suspected to actually worship Leira! Just imagine a priest of Leira that speaks so openly about all the tricks he's doing - maybe even adding some he just made up - that in the end nobody believes him anymore...
In 5e, my highest level character is a level 18 Life Cleric of Lathander. He is rightly called a Morning Lord, and he has his "Healer's Express" a Carpet of Flying. That he uses to carry supplies to heal where he goes. He's getting a little old (55 years old), but is really strong, and caring. He is definitely LG. There's the stigma that Lawful Good=Lawful Stupid, but that hasn't been his problem. It's really fun, when he converted an assassin into the church of Lathander, after my cleric saved his life. lol.
I played a 'Paladin' of Leira in Adventure League who actually has two levels of Paladin and eight levels of Celestial Warlock with Pact of the Chain for an Imp familiar. Creative uses of Message and Minor Illusion along with my Imp familiar carry me through the out-of-combat scenarios while a mix of Eldritch Blast and Divine Smite Booming Blade see me through combat. My character carries himself with the confidence (read: arrogance) of a combatant far superior to his actual melee abilities, he doesn't even have Extra Attack but he is an extremely competent switch hitter and I really enjoy roleplaying that arrogance via insulting my opponents mid-combat. After the story arc where we were...not possessed, but we had undead spirits who couldn't rest until a murder mystery was solved and they needed a body with a living mind to solve it so after interacting with particular objects the bodies of most of the party had two consciousnesses within them until the mystery was solved, most of the party members don't know (read: don't know in character) that I kept the additional consciousness in my body, unable to whisper but able to shout as loud as a Thunder Wave going off. Message allows me to communicate subtly when I need to and I can talk via my familiar so I can literally shout from behind someone with a Thunder Wave-volume voice while standing in front of them smiling sweetly. It's great fun to use.
Those small details about Lathander make establishing a richly detailed church for him quite easy! Awesome video and happy Valentine's Day to all even Leira "by the mist shadow."
In my first game, I made a Half-Elf, School of Illusion Wizard named Leila before I knew about Leira, but I thought that coincidence was too good to pass up, so I altered her backstory that her adoptive Dwarf mother, Severa, is a Paladin of Leira and named Leila derivatively from her Diety when she found her. Leila is my first character and she takes more after her late adoptive father, a Tiefling named Jerrus. Me and our DM are still trying to figure out Severa's character because we plan on us going to Leila's home town to help Severa with something. I imagined her as being a doting mother who will casually tell tiny lies about the most random things. But she isn't so deep that she would deceive Leila about anything serious. But, I'm still trying to help him because our DM is also reletively new to the game, and Leira's creeds and followers are a confusing bunch.
Lathander just seems suspicious to me if he wanted to remove all evil from the pantheon, that would just remove all order of things and make him the evil one in concept. I can see non-worshippers using that against Lathander worshippers in arguments and I like that. It's heavily symbolic though that Lathander vanished, a Neutral Good deity who made a mistake, and Amaunator, a Lawful Good deity returned and basically acted as Lathander's damage control. The Sun Deity replaced the Dawn Deity, like the sun itself would rise up away from dawn.
Since there's a deity of the sun and a deity of dawn, what other deities are there of the day and night cycle are there? I'm assuming there's probably other deities of who symbolize Dusk, Twilight, Sunrise and Sunset, and Night. I'm assuming Lathander also takes order over Sunrise, but they could make it more divided.
That's what the True Neutral gods try to prevent. Balance between good and evil is important. That's why Druids were required to be true neutral, to stop stuff from getting out of hand.
its likely that lathander and amaunator have a "sheogorath/jiggalyag" thing going on where one exists juuust long enough to cause an imbalance then BOOM greymarch.
It sounds like lathander and amunator are like Ra and Khephri the beetle. At dawn the Sun rises as Khephri and at about noon transformed into Ra same being different forms.
Excellent video, thank you! I have a slightly different (unorthodox, if you will) take on Leira that says she's not so much a goddess of thoughtless or malicious deception as one who pushes her followers to master illusion in order to better perceive the greater truths of the cosmos. You can't understand the truth until you can see through, and control, the lies.
i have a changeling cleric, trickery domain of course, of leira (who has pretended to worship another goddess for most of the campaign) and YES she is hella fun to worship / super frustrating to everyone involved
thanks again for a wonderful video. i love your channel. lots of novels feature lathander , but i learned lots about leira here. maybe you can do a SHAUNDAKUL video, please.
In 4e, there was an effort to simplify the pantheon and say 2 or more gods were actually the same god. How I see it, there are the different domains, and each domain work in conjunction to create divine portfolios. Lathander and Amaunator are different gods, but related because they are both gods of different aspects of the sun. Lathander is the god of sunrises, with the domains of light and life. He represents the aspect of the sun and dawn that represents beauty (like Aurora), renewal, beginnings, and resurrection (like the scarab that merges with Ra in Egyptian mythology). Amaunator represents the sun as it progresses through the sky, with domains of light and order. This is the divine right of rulers (the solar halo we see in saints), which is more delegated to the demigod Saiphmora (probably not spelled that way), and perhaps the brightest of the sun. Other gods, like Palor, represent the warmth of the sun, how it protects us from cold and undeath. Savatri in the Hindu pantheon represents the benevolence and wisdom of a "bright idea" but also the radiant beauty, and sometimes oppressive heat, of the sun (as in the myth of princess Savatri). This allows for different gods to be gods of the same thing, they have related, overlapping, but not identical portfolios.
2:31 Are'nt characters that represent LG and NG evil in that image are actually evil? I did not watch this cartoons (or it was so long ago i dont remember it), but they certainly look evi.
Amaunator the sun god was considered a dead god in Advance 2nd edition, was this retcon'd? edit: nvm I looked into it, he was a dead god because people lost faith in him. Over time though, people came to believe that Lathandar was the reincarnation of Amaunator, this was actually considered a hereitcal belief. After the spellplague, it eventually became accepted that they are one in the same. But, 101 years later after the 2nd sundering Amaunator and Lathandar are considered separate again. No one knows the actual truth. fun fact though, there is a ritual you can perform through prayer with Amaunator to reverse Vampirism.
why won't a deity using 2 names you can have 2 names...Jordan and Jordphdan as an example? "they are different points of view but in reality the same" we humans refer to this as nicknames, names that mean the same person or in rare occasions thing but is when you boil it down the same thing as a regular name only to refer to that person/thing in a different way. I don't find it confusing that 1 god could be retconned to have 2 names and 2 domain under separate names much like a scumbag might sign for a position in a others name and so could his portfolio work as well, and the reason no god object is that the domains are so closely related that nobody cares.
what if Lathander failure to create a pantheon of deities like his image isnt a failure but insstant he creates a 2nd god(not the pantheon he wanted) which is Amauator?!something like a clone god
Riesenfriese I'm starting a game with a dex based Paladin of Leira soon, she's an aasimar but using a disguise kit to pose as a human. Will let you know how it goes because you're right, it could completely backfire 😋
I play a chaotic good Trickery Cleric of Leira and its great fun. She's a little imp but everyone loves her because she makes things fun and she leads the others to look at things from a different perspective and to not trust things to be as they seem. It's a little difficult to play, but as long as you're not malicious with what you do it plays nicely into an adventuring group.
Leirans speak truth to their friends, but in a disguised way: they say obvious falsehoods sarcastically, so that those who know and trust them can 'read between the lines' and discern the truth.
I've played as one with 2 different groups, and they know I lie, but not about facts. I separate fact from "truth". Fact: "I healed him." Truth: "I bravely faced the peril and risked all to heal him." "Truth" as Mistcallers know it is a fact wrapped in lies(usually opinions). It took both groups a while to catch on. My first group was experienced so I laid it on pretty thick and kept up the guise of something else until they finally guessed it. My current group is mostly new to RPGs so I told them out of character after a game session, when it it was becoming clear that they weren't trusting ME as a person. Still, one can lie all the time and not jeopardize the party. We currently have a manor house bequeathed to us. I commandeered the attic, and spent 850gp on a dwarven made reinforced door and a magical lock with a command word. One party member is going crazy trying to get in there. There is nothing in the room, lol.
Love Leira. She's basically the goddess of "...or did I?"
Fun fact about Leirans -
Lord Khelben of Waterdeep hired Leirans exclusively to staff the Waterdhavian Bureau of Adventurer Information. (FRA. p. 23)
I suspect a priest of Leira would not present themselves as a priest of Leira, at least not while adventuring.
@Sean Hillman In that case, that one priest that openly admits to worship Leira would be the last one to be suspected to actually worship Leira!
Just imagine a priest of Leira that speaks so openly about all the tricks he's doing - maybe even adding some he just made up - that in the end nobody believes him anymore...
"Why speak truth when falsehood will suffice?"
Never. Mistcallers only rarely reveal themselves as such. Almost never. The same for all of her children.
In 5e, my highest level character is a level 18 Life Cleric of Lathander. He is rightly called a Morning Lord, and he has his "Healer's Express" a Carpet of Flying. That he uses to carry supplies to heal where he goes. He's getting a little old (55 years old), but is really strong, and caring. He is definitely LG.
There's the stigma that Lawful Good=Lawful Stupid, but that hasn't been his problem. It's really fun, when he converted an assassin into the church of Lathander, after my cleric saved his life. lol.
Jesus Ortiz I'm pretty certain most followers would be NG cause they don't care as long as they are doing good to the world
I played a 'Paladin' of Leira in Adventure League who actually has two levels of Paladin and eight levels of Celestial Warlock with Pact of the Chain for an Imp familiar. Creative uses of Message and Minor Illusion along with my Imp familiar carry me through the out-of-combat scenarios while a mix of Eldritch Blast and Divine Smite Booming Blade see me through combat. My character carries himself with the confidence (read: arrogance) of a combatant far superior to his actual melee abilities, he doesn't even have Extra Attack but he is an extremely competent switch hitter and I really enjoy roleplaying that arrogance via insulting my opponents mid-combat.
After the story arc where we were...not possessed, but we had undead spirits who couldn't rest until a murder mystery was solved and they needed a body with a living mind to solve it so after interacting with particular objects the bodies of most of the party had two consciousnesses within them until the mystery was solved, most of the party members don't know (read: don't know in character) that I kept the additional consciousness in my body, unable to whisper but able to shout as loud as a Thunder Wave going off. Message allows me to communicate subtly when I need to and I can talk via my familiar so I can literally shout from behind someone with a Thunder Wave-volume voice while standing in front of them smiling sweetly. It's great fun to use.
Those small details about Lathander make establishing a richly detailed church for him quite easy! Awesome video and happy Valentine's Day to all even Leira "by the mist shadow."
In my first game, I made a Half-Elf, School of Illusion Wizard named Leila before I knew about Leira, but I thought that coincidence was too good to pass up, so I altered her backstory that her adoptive Dwarf mother, Severa, is a Paladin of Leira and named Leila derivatively from her Diety when she found her. Leila is my first character and she takes more after her late adoptive father, a Tiefling named Jerrus. Me and our DM are still trying to figure out Severa's character because we plan on us going to Leila's home town to help Severa with something. I imagined her as being a doting mother who will casually tell tiny lies about the most random things. But she isn't so deep that she would deceive Leila about anything serious. But, I'm still trying to help him because our DM is also reletively new to the game, and Leira's creeds and followers are a confusing bunch.
As a redheaded priestess of Lathandar (Arabelle Dawnglow), I approve this message. :)
As a blonde priest of Lathander (Ethlin Lightbringer), I approve thise message. :)
Praise the Sun!
My PC worships Leira his favourite quote is never tell the truth when a lie will do my PC is based off Garak from Star Trek Deep Space Nine
Love it!
Thank you again for yet another video! I look forward to seeing notifications from your channel!
Lathander just seems suspicious to me if he wanted to remove all evil from the pantheon, that would just remove all order of things and make him the evil one in concept. I can see non-worshippers using that against Lathander worshippers in arguments and I like that. It's heavily symbolic though that Lathander vanished, a Neutral Good deity who made a mistake, and Amaunator, a Lawful Good deity returned and basically acted as Lathander's damage control. The Sun Deity replaced the Dawn Deity, like the sun itself would rise up away from dawn.
Yes! One could argue that keeping the balance between good and evil is more important than removing evil.
Since there's a deity of the sun and a deity of dawn, what other deities are there of the day and night cycle are there? I'm assuming there's probably other deities of who symbolize Dusk, Twilight, Sunrise and Sunset, and Night. I'm assuming Lathander also takes order over Sunrise, but they could make it more divided.
That's what the True Neutral gods try to prevent. Balance between good and evil is important. That's why Druids were required to be true neutral, to stop stuff from getting out of hand.
its likely that lathander and amaunator have a "sheogorath/jiggalyag" thing going on where one exists juuust long enough to cause an imbalance then BOOM greymarch.
It sounds like lathander and amunator are like Ra and Khephri the beetle. At dawn the Sun rises as Khephri and at
about noon transformed into Ra same being different forms.
Excellent video, thank you! I have a slightly different (unorthodox, if you will) take on Leira that says she's not so much a goddess of thoughtless or malicious deception as one who pushes her followers to master illusion in order to better perceive the greater truths of the cosmos. You can't understand the truth until you can see through, and control, the lies.
awesome I was just making Lathander the main church of my main city. fun
Wooo! We finally got there, my chosen paladin Deity Lathander.
Codex I am also thinking about using Lathander for my paladin!
@@embersun. Me too!
i have a changeling cleric, trickery domain of course, of leira (who has pretended to worship another goddess for most of the campaign) and YES she is hella fun to worship / super frustrating to everyone involved
I am also playing. Changeling trickery Cleric who serves leira.
Lathander is the example how being too optimistic can end up horribly wrong
thanks again for a wonderful video. i love your channel.
lots of novels feature lathander , but i learned lots about leira here.
maybe you can do a SHAUNDAKUL video, please.
joshpwnsnoobs where have you learned more about Lathander? I am looking into him for a paladin I'm creating.
In 4e, there was an effort to simplify the pantheon and say 2 or more gods were actually the same god. How I see it, there are the different domains, and each domain work in conjunction to create divine portfolios. Lathander and Amaunator are different gods, but related because they are both gods of different aspects of the sun. Lathander is the god of sunrises, with the domains of light and life. He represents the aspect of the sun and dawn that represents beauty (like Aurora), renewal, beginnings, and resurrection (like the scarab that merges with Ra in Egyptian mythology). Amaunator represents the sun as it progresses through the sky, with domains of light and order. This is the divine right of rulers (the solar halo we see in saints), which is more delegated to the demigod Saiphmora (probably not spelled that way), and perhaps the brightest of the sun. Other gods, like Palor, represent the warmth of the sun, how it protects us from cold and undeath. Savatri in the Hindu pantheon represents the benevolence and wisdom of a "bright idea" but also the radiant beauty, and sometimes oppressive heat, of the sun (as in the myth of princess Savatri).
This allows for different gods to be gods of the same thing, they have related, overlapping, but not identical portfolios.
Leira, would make a good deity for politicians.
"rosy aura" you say?
mmm yes this rose, gold, and white color scheme will do nicely~
Love these videos thank you
Thank you Jorphdan!
Great stuff as always keep it up!
lol at dat aligment thing XD
Does Lathandur have a temple in Myth Drannor? If so, I better come up with a new plan for my campaign's finale.
2:31
Are'nt characters that represent LG and NG evil in that image are actually evil? I did not watch this cartoons (or it was so long ago i dont remember it), but they certainly look evi.
All of these Characters are evil, that is the joke.
Amaunator the sun god was considered a dead god in Advance 2nd edition, was this retcon'd?
edit: nvm I looked into it, he was a dead god because people lost faith in him. Over time though, people came to believe that Lathandar was the reincarnation of Amaunator, this was actually considered a hereitcal belief. After the spellplague, it eventually became accepted that they are one in the same. But, 101 years later after the 2nd sundering Amaunator and Lathandar are considered separate again. No one knows the actual truth.
fun fact though, there is a ritual you can perform through prayer with Amaunator to reverse Vampirism.
Didn’t asmodeus get removed? What if Lathander is the one that kicked Asmodeus out of the higher realms?
why won't a deity using 2 names you can have 2 names...Jordan and Jordphdan as an example?
"they are different points of view but in reality the same" we humans refer to this as nicknames, names that mean the same person or in rare occasions thing but is when you boil it down the same thing as a regular name only to refer to that person/thing in a different way.
I don't find it confusing that 1 god could be retconned to have 2 names and 2 domain under separate names much like a scumbag might sign for a position in a others name and so could his portfolio work as well, and the reason no god object is that the domains are so closely related that nobody cares.
Wonderful video!
Which dnd gods/goddesses/deities are least worshipped??
Read the short story Red Ambition great example of Leira
Hey Jorphdan I was wondering if Mielikki was coming some point soon in these videos
Yep! Kinda going alphabetical, but I'll get there :D
what if Lathander failure to create a pantheon of deities like his image isnt a failure but insstant he creates a 2nd god(not the pantheon he wanted) which is Amauator?!something like a clone god
Isn't Leira the state religion in Nimbral?
A follower of Leira seems like it would be incredibly hard to play without making your friends hate you.
Riesenfriese I'm starting a game with a dex based Paladin of Leira soon, she's an aasimar but using a disguise kit to pose as a human. Will let you know how it goes because you're right, it could completely backfire 😋
Clifford Symons looking forward to hearing about it :D
I play a chaotic good Trickery Cleric of Leira and its great fun. She's a little imp but everyone loves her because she makes things fun and she leads the others to look at things from a different perspective and to not trust things to be as they seem. It's a little difficult to play, but as long as you're not malicious with what you do it plays nicely into an adventuring group.
Leirans speak truth to their friends, but in a disguised way: they say obvious falsehoods sarcastically, so that those who know and trust them can 'read between the lines' and discern the truth.
I've played as one with 2 different groups, and they know I lie, but not about facts. I separate fact from "truth". Fact: "I healed him." Truth: "I bravely faced the peril and risked all to heal him." "Truth" as Mistcallers know it is a fact wrapped in lies(usually opinions). It took both groups a while to catch on.
My first group was experienced so I laid it on pretty thick and kept up the guise of something else until they finally guessed it. My current group is mostly new to RPGs so I told them out of character after a game session, when it it was becoming clear that they weren't trusting ME as a person. Still, one can lie all the time and not jeopardize the party. We currently have a manor house bequeathed to us. I commandeered the attic, and spent 850gp on a dwarven made reinforced door and a magical lock with a command word. One party member is going crazy trying to get in there. There is nothing in the room, lol.
Leira Lives
Tempus and Mask
Can a Paladin have the title Dawnbringer?
Leira 3:30
....or did she?
In 5e pelor is the god of the sun
Chris Perkins pronounces Amaunator (ah-MAWN-ah-tor)and that's how it appears in Forgotten Realms Wiki
Puedo oler a Sirio Kappa
👍
Lathander is such a millennial deity