Phoenicia Analysis and First Impression - Civilization VI: Gathering Storm
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- Опубліковано 28 січ 2019
- Hey guys PotatoMcWhiskey here with a First Impression and Analysis of the Phoenicia for the upcomping Civilization VI Gathering Storm expansion!
- Ігри
![ЛЕБЕДЕВ у ДУДЯ: муху не обманешь 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E74h5fvVrqs/mqdefault.jpg)
Dido is cool but she isn't *Hanibal marches through the Alps with war elephants to destroy Rome* cool
I disagree with your analysis on two points- 1) her bonuses start in the early game and carry throughout the game with snowball potential, and 2) decent synergies in her bonuses.
No extra yields? Those extra trade routes with the right policy cards can give you extra yields towards any victory type.
No bonus towards a victory type? Dido's cheaper and faster settlers means she will own more coastline. That's a lot of seaside resort potential! And how about a 50% cheaper spaceport from the city with a gov plaza?
I do wish that her Cothon's increased the food yields of water tiles to synergize with the cheaper settlers, or that the Writing tech boost was a little more impressive. I would also like see Hannibal as an alternate leader with a conquest focus, but Dido is not weak. She does need a more experienced player to get her to a consistent victory. Her city flipping approach to conquest will be interesting. If she settles next to one of your cities, WATCH OUT! She also has a unique solution to Ibrahim. His loyalty effects are entirely lost on Dido, and moving her capital is an easy way to oust him... temporarily. Mapuche's Malon riders will be irrelevant. And moving her capital can keep domination civs off-balance. See you neighbor massing for war near your capital? Just move to the opposite end of your empire. A human player looking for a quick domination victory will rethink that war when he realizes that war will not be quick... especially if he has to capture a coastal city with a Cothon.
Don't think "generic." Think flexible. She can adapt to any situation quickly and can make a play at any victory type. The real question is if the AI can use her abilities, or if they just stall out and do nothing.
Yeah i agree her ability to flip cities is massive, you can place free cities all along the coasts of your starting continent, plus the bonus to settlers, you settle around another Civ then you can move your Cap to the closest city to that Civ combined with Amani's emissary bonus the amount of loyalty pressure is insane. You have the potential here to flip an entire Civ without ever going to war.
Not to mention every city you flip adds up the pressure and flipped cities dont lose pops (further increasing the pressure) or buildings.
It's essentially a snow ball of loyalty pressure, and means you can swallow any civ that spawns near you on your continent just by placing cities leaving you open to still tech and grow without having to focus on building military units.
Besides the full loyalty for coastal city + the settlers' ability to ignore naval movement penalties can be really good for domination. You just have to settle a city close to a capital, and move or buy ( you have a good economy with all the trades routes ) tons of units there for a quick raid.
I'm really glad you posted this. I am imagining incredible peacetime city flipping on a cultural or even religious game. Move your capitol, mess with enemy loyalty without losing it yourself. Very powerful.
And faster early game settlers, superb.
now I wanna play her as my first civ in GS ^^. I love naval maps anyways. ANd yeah Mauri and others may have super unique playstyles. but man I need to get the feel of the new features first before going that crazy ^^.
Trade Routes are quite powerful which is why I mentioned it is one of her strongest abilities. They're not over and away super powerful bonuses however.
The cheaper settlers come after invested into a harbour which has a lot of conditional investments required for you to get value out of.
Spaceports are best purchased using Reyna (Or Moksha new faith purchasing ability) so a +50% production bonus isn't super useful on that front. ALSO: a 50% production bonus is only a 33% discount. 100/150 = 66% of normal cost AKA 33% discount.
Generic and Flexible Civilizations will always. ALWAYS, lose out to a Civ with specific bonuses.
0:47 - Historically that doesn't make sense; part of the reason the Phoenicians never became as powerful as the Greeks and the Romans was because they were poorly unified; some of their cities often sided with other powers if they thought they'd benefit from it, and when Hannibal asked for seige engines from Carthage to take out the Romans, they flat out refused on the basis that he was raised on one of their colony cities and they didn't trust him with them.
How DAre You CrITiCIszE a WoMAn
I think it's important to remember that water trade routes give double gold in GS, and Phoenicia could put out 4-6 trade routes shortly after Political Philosophy quite comfortably. Production bonuses to districts, Cothons, settlers and naval units is a broad amount of added production value to things you'd be building anyway.
They do seem a bit underwhelming, but they still blow Norway out of the water (literally) and all their bonuses are decent if not amazing, unlike Georgia who can't use most of her stuff most of the time.
Dido also comes online very early, with all her bonuses available in the Ancient era. I think they'll be solid, just underwhelming on Deity Pangaea.
Lawra gets it!
The extra gold is nice, but its very map and positioning dependant. Production bonus to district only applies to a single city with Gov plaza. Naval units just aren't as useful as Land units, even on water maps.
Where was double gold for sea trade routes verified? I don't recall the devs ever stating what the bonus to sea trade routes would be.
7:32 that's just some real Rap God thing goin on there
thought my video glitched because i paused right before it, then resumed 15 minutes later xD
Love your let’s play videos. You explain your rational and strategy you are implementing very clearly. You give me new ideas to try in my games. Cant wait for GS!
Me either fam
you are way underestimating the loyalty thing. you can foward settle your close neighbors now at the start. i predict its insane on deity
Cothons+Faster embarked Settlers+Settler policy card+Naval unit policy card. Both those cards are available early. You can settle cities like mad, especially now that Magnus is weaker AND chopping forests can hurt rival civs that overdo it.
The Gov Plaza stuff also helps one of your earliest cities and lets you get a faster Cothon + gold from routes.
The biggest problem is that you have way too much to do during that time. If you play around that, you are missing out on early inrfastructure and not building up your army. Like ho said, on a Diety game, you really can't take detours like this. celestial navigation is also in a really bad spot on the tech tree. You usually want archers and all of your resource techs first, then most likely walls and commercial hubs. Harbors are on the opposite side of the tech tree and do not lead to anything.
@@Sporrik I agree with that. What you need on higher difficulties is relative isolation early on, then you can go ham. Otherwise you need luck and distracted neighbors to stand a chance.
@@Femfikon Also her ability to flip cities is massive, you can place free cities all along the coasts of your starting continent, plus the bonus to settlers, you settle around another Civ then you can move your Cap to the closest city to that Civ combined with Amani's emissary bonus the amount of loyalty pressure is insane. You have the potential here to flip an entire Civ without ever going to war.
Not to mention every city you flip adds up the pressure and flipped cities dont lose pops (further increasing the pressure) or buildings.
It's essentially a snow ball of loyalty pressure, and means you can swallow any civ that spawns near you on your continent just by placing cities leaving you open to still tech and grow without having to focus on building military units.
You guys are forgetting some things. Early settler and harbor rushes will get you a lot of money too due to trade routes.
Meanwhile shift your loyalty pressure around using the cothon and capitol swap and pick up nearby cities in dark ages. JVJ gets it.
I think this is far superior to the other unique harbor civ, England.
Reminds me of Cree, just has a fun play style that you can kind of divert to different victory types
So definitely a weeker civ, but I just love how every new civ has at least one new and unique feature that belongs to just that one civilization.
Yeah, that is really cool. I really think they nailed making the civs interesting from a design and gameplay standpoint
Far from the weakest civ, considering Canada is in the game. Just because a civ doesn't have bonuses towards 1 specific victory doesn't make it weak. Look at Khmer or Georgia with their bonuses towards Religious and Cultural victory, still pretty garbage.
Hard to say on Pangaea or Continent map, but on Island Plates or Archipelago, easily the strongest civ by far, considering the wider you can go in civ 6, the stronger it is. Forward settling has been severely nerfed by loyalty, but with Phoenicia and their 150% bonus production towards Settlers, you can crank out Settlers every 1-2 turn on standard speed, settling in a cluster so they can reinforce each other's loyalty, then move your capital to other landmasses and do the same. Unlimited snowball potential.
Considering Canada's all around worthless bonuses and Inca's massive food bonuses without housing to go with it, how can this be the weakest one?
Plus the fact that early bonuses are much more impactful than late bonuses in the way the game plays out, amazing early game bonuses like the Cree and Phoenicia will always be strong that they can have multiple victory types they can choose from. The Okhichitaw and the Bireme are underwhelming just to balance out their other powerful early bonuses.
Canada is stronger because he has extra diplomatic favour generation which is a bonus that directly applies to a victory condition (amongst other situations).
Settlers scale in production cost, and if you don't get settlers our early you're not getting many cities in deity.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey But Can't Dido's works as a generalist Naval power with a strong Domination game in some maps? I mean that loyalty bonus to me sounds like Alexander or Macedon's no war weariness bonus and would make it so that if not actively strong with attacking civs, they do have loyalty pressure that can't be matched, basically taking other cities by forward settling and using capital loyalty pressure and using the new cities to churn out units. And I know that generalist especially in civ aren't all that strong when compared to civs with specific victory strategies but I am pretty sure that as Phonecia the generalist aspect come only from it's sheer flexibility and not accounting for a case in using the loyalty pressure to its maximum. These of course may not make Phonecia the best civ, far from top tier, but still has an effective strategy and not quite as generalist as it made out to be
@@PotatoMcWhiskey Well yes, I do agree that df is helpful but you need to consider how much they are getting. They get a big bonus from Emergencies, that's nice, but it's not guaranteed you win the emergency against other civs, AND it is also not guaranteed how many emergencies per game will involve you. Other way that Canada gets df you ask? A whopping 1% of Tourism. One whole percent. Even for a cultural civ with early bonuses towards getting great writers, artists... (which Canada has none), it is hard to get 100 tourism before reaching Renaissance, or even Industrial, cuz most of the tourism boosts lie at the end of the game. By the time you get like 10 df per turn (1000 tourism), the game is done. So you spent half the game as Canada, languishing in snow and tundra, having to use resources to break even with food input from grassland, also having to wait till Industrial so that you can generate at least 1 whole df per turn, when other people start trading for df since Ancient era. That can't be better than 150% production towards settlers, especially when going wide is so strong in civ 6.
Phoenicia is pronounced Fo-Knee-Sha. That's an easy way to remember it. Thanks for the great breakdown!
Pronounced as Fo-Kin-Shite ;)
I used Google Translate and it says "Fe-nee-sha"
Foe neesh iciakhan
No it is silent o.
Or Fun-Ee-Shuh if that’s easier to understand
I think this Civ has great hidden potential. They'll still be good on pangea/continent maps, and absolutely broken on island maps.
1) Being able to move the capital pretty much makes Dido immune to losing a domination game (or at least, extensively prolongs their survival), in addition to having the loyalty effect. Aggressive neighbor? Simply move your empire to another continent with all the settlers you're pumping out.
2) More harbors means more trade routes means WAY more money, especially now since sea trade routes are being upgraded, and money is good for any victory type. Harbors in general are solid districts, providing gold, housing, food, and production if placed well.
3) You can pump out settlers sooo quickly fairly early on and build a massive coastal empire.
The only thing that's a little random is the inspiration for writing (phoenician alphabet lip service), but that's something that you get in almost every game anyway. They should just have the technology outright and that would make them easily top tier IMO
1. Immune? Eh, resistant to a domination win? For sure.
2. Gold generation is quite good but not super amazing.
3. Fairly early is not early enough on Deity.
I love the dark purple background and the light purple text. So pretty! It looks like the Champa mod from Civ 5!
I think it's unfair to compare to Georgia. Phoenicia is already looking better than Georgia. I think it's also worth considering how Phoenicia will interplay with the new canal feature. Given how quickly and aggressively Phoenicia can expand across coastal tiles I think they could easily grab all the canal spots on a map relatively quickly. Canals then give a big bonus to trade route income and Phoenicia gets extra traders. Definitely on an island plates or archipelago map Phoenicia is going to be top tier. Compared to Georgia - Is there any circumstance where Georgia is top tier?
i actually waited for this post.. cant believe im excited over it and it didnt even make 20 min
I feel like Firaxis were intentionally very conservative with this one. If you give them early game bonuses that are too strong, especially when it comes to city spam, you can easily end up with an overpowered civ just by virtue of snowballing. That's not to say it was the right call, but I suspect that's the reasoning.
Commercial city states buff lighthouses and shipyards as well as markets and banks.
Wrong.
@@sineporfa9053 Yes, they do. They mentioned it in one of their livestreams as one of the small changes Gathering Storm brings
so do shipyards get additional production or gold?
@@abeke5523 Additional gold from commerce city states, the amount of production from the shipyard depends on the harbour adjacency bonus
You bias against generalist civs is unfair. Have some fun and stop playing pangea and deity
stop bullying me
yup. he needs to play other map types. and I get why he wants deity but man deity is just stupid hard. and once you survived long enough you can dispatch of them just as easily as prince ai. He needs to play against other humans who start with the same warrior and settler. Like me and my friends we have actually an ongoing point system. so it matters which place you come in. End of the year winner is most points not necessarily who won most. (there are minus points for being last and more minus for being wiped out. and extra plus points for winning a game) The thing is having a good ai in civ.... is hard. Having a good ai that decides fast enough so rounds dont take ages to process? MIT level challenge likely. Especially if you want them to play flawed and in Character not "optimal to the meta".
@@tomw4955 People come here to watch me play vs ai and I think multiplayer Civ is just literally a recipe to slowly turn myself into a serial killer by torturing myself.
"Stop playing deity"
Just what. I would never watch a youtube let's-play that is at a lower difficulty than what I play on. Playing deity is just flat superior to everything else, since the gameplay shown and the lessons learned applies to everyone that watches.
To be fair, single player and multiplayer civ may as well not even be the same game. Multiplayer civ vs strangers devolves into a race to domination victory 9/10 games.
With that said, most of these civs seem to be balanced around multiplayer on balanced maps (not Pangea) where players are actually willing to play towards victory types beyond domination.
Basically, what their QA team does when running test games.
For the Harbor boost in GS, Commercial City-States add the Lighthouse and the Shipyard to the bonus 3 and 6 Envoy bonus gold in addition to Markets and Banks
I BEEN WAITING FOR THISSSS
If we want to tier Phoenicia by victory type:
- Domination: Very dependent on being able to leverage the navy, but solves some of the problems with city loyalty by moving the capital even during land wars.
- Science: The bonus district construction applies to spaceports, right? That's not too bad. Also, you don't have to rush exploration to get the Writing Eureka, but it isn't that big.
- Culture: I mean, you could claim a lot of coastline using your navy and build a lot of seaside resorts, but there are no real bonuses to culture here.
- Religion: No bonuses to faith or founding religions. Pass.
- Diplomacy: I don't know much about it yet, but I imagine the critical parts of a diplomatic game are culture generation to advance through governments, suzerainship of city-states, and forming alliances, none of which are part of Phoenicia's playstyle.
Similar to the Cree, but I'd argue Phoenicia is better than them just off of the capital/loyalty thing. Dido will have more trade routes after building the T1 building, and I feel the Cothon is about as strong as the Mekewap. Unless skirmishers are really good, Dido will have a better UU so long as navy can be used at all.
I don't know which Cree you're talking about, because the Cree from Rise & Fall are extremely formidable. If you can take proper advantage of their rapid tile acquisition, you can be a powerhouse in production/city growth from very early on in the game.
They're weak because they don't have specific bonuses towards a victory type. Its really that simple. They can't get more of a key yield than a "vanilla" civ.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey A ton of free production, gold, food and housing and an almost guaranteed golden age is classical is "vanilla" and "weak"? Can't agree, they are one of the strongest.
They may have that, but they would never outech korea, have more tourism than the US, conquer more easily than the aztecs, or get a better religion than russia, they aren’t weak, but they cannot compete against a good player with a more focused civ
1:49 apparently harbors now give science per citizen
doesn't that change your mind a little?
I wonder if they did something like that on all districts giving yield per citizen, would really help incentivisce playing tall, get all the districts and get insane yields from them. I think I am just going to call them carthage is about playing wide, but having one "super" city, that would be the city with your government plaza.
The specialist yields are the same as they are in R&F. If you were talking about the extra adjacency, then that's also part of R&F's era mechanic. The Free Inquiry dedication can make commercial hubs / harbors generate science as well.
Nah She was in a golden age so I think its rather a golden age bonus
free inquiry from golden age gives science equal to harbor adjacency bonus,
but in the bubble end it clearly says "citizen yields ( from citizen) : +1 science"
@@MasterPoulpe oh didnt see that
Minor issue it will be 5 trade routes not 4 now that we have a new government tier, not a big boost but worth considering
did they announce/confirm that the 4th tier of government will bring another building? i haven't heared that yet, and it would be the first district with 4 buildings in it
They haven’t but I would be wierd if it didn’t given that that is how they handle policy cards.
Not sure if theres going to be a 4th building my dude.
i'm still crossing my fingers you're right, bro!
I’m honestly having my doubts now with the newest video I may have been too optimistic but we will know soon enough :)
Looking at those first few cities, I wonder if Phonecia will have a start bias towards isthmuses/canal city locations. This would make sense of the historical basis for the Cothon being a Harbor rather than a Canal. .
I think her settling ability is pretty good, you could technically settle right next to a group of civilizations, allowing for mass production of settlers, with the unique harbor it furthers her ability to settle, the ability to move capitals you can potentially get some massive gold production, with the casa de contracion and some policy cards you can have your cities(on the same continent as your capital) could get your cities about 45% gold, but only problem is she has no focus on a victory
+50% Production toward naval units...and the +100% production toward naval units civic...and wonders and other things can boost this number further however the only one that comes to mind is the Great Admiral with the retirement bonus to +20% production toward naval raiders however he is a modern era Admiral I think. But also if you have the wonder that allows Great Admirals to use their retire bonus twice that’s 190% Production toward naval raiders and I know Magnus is being reworked but could she potentially exploit this somehow?
I wonder how the "+X to cities not on your home continent" policies and boosts work with this? If that also switches with the cap then moving it away from your core cities would be clutch. i.e. you have 6 epic cities in the old world then settle one in the new world. Move your cap there. Take the cards that boost not-your-continent cities. Instead of only boosting a few small cities it's now boosting high pop cities in your core. Profit.
Yes you could settle a random city on another continent and then swap capital and get huge yields, quite good I agree and I overlooked it.
Im curious if the capital movement will have any impact on a few of the policy cards. I think there are two that gives bonuses to all city's not on the capitals continent.
And yet those trade bonuses were a bit overlooked, I really liked it since the nerf trading received few months back
Phoenicia is basically a navy with a state
Classic thalassocracy
Prussia at sea
While we won't know how much more powerful naval combat is going to be in Gathering Storm, I have been leaning towards the suspicion that naval combat and bombardment, in particular, is going to be far more significant in this new advantage. I think canal systems are going to offer opportunities that were not there to really punish civs with strong naval bombardment. Their bonus of completely healing naval units in a single turn makes them extremely deadly to any nearby coastal focused civs.
If you can move your capital that means that if you go for a naval conquest you can move your capital to a captured city and have the loyalty bonus affecting other cities you conquer.
The double unique district bug has been fixed since at least R&F.
She has the literal greatest bonus in the game for mid game war mongering on most maps that aren't a single land mass though, or for invading civs on coasts in general, and empire encroaching people on her home continent early.
In mid game when you invade any empire's city that has a harbor/special and it gets conquered, she can go for the capital swap, and then every city she conquers on the coast is 100% loyal. This is basically how you steal everyones coasts, or full blown wash of empires. Steal a bunch of coasts then push inward and use governors on land locked civs.
Plus since canals are now a thing who's going to play single mass maps.
Also great with loyalty shenanigans capital city pressure etc in the early game when you can slap your capital next to enemy borders
And with global warming all things can become coast when you need to power your war machines
And I think the empires pronunciation is "foh-nee-she-en" if that helps
Colonial policy cards and wonders in all your core cities after you move your capital gives you up to 40% gold, 25% production, 15% growth, and 15% faith, and loyalty.
Phoenicia's strengths aren't immediately obvious, but in the right hands she'll be formidable even on pangaea.
I think it would be a nice bonus, if their cities would have increased loyalty pressure as well. Maybe an extra 0.5 per pop to make it easier to flip cities. ;)
Just imagine trying to fight a Phoenicia that has settled a chain of islands that are all one continent, their naval units never die and every time you try to just go for the capital it fuckin moves
plus, like, she gets a LOT of trade routes, which means better yields to whatever you want with policies and generally overall better relations with AI.
and the loyalty stuff is really nice, if you make it through a game without grabbing a few free cities via loyalty I'd be surprised.
Looks like a civ that will really benefit from experience - these aren't no brainer bonuses that let you run over the opposition. Certainly a civ that benefits from naval interaction - on Pangea, this would be close to a generic civ with some very marginal bonuses. Moving the capital city is cool, and maybe this has some equity, but very situational.
All in all, seems pretty thin gruel - even if you are playing a naval map, I'd rather be Norway. Or the Maori.
Man I really don't understand why you don't like harbor districts. They provide gold, food, and production. I always try to found coastal cities just so I can make a commercial hub triangle with them and then use the governor to make fisheries on the coast.
Because
A: Navies suck, compared to land armies.
B: Harbours suck, compared to commercial hubs.
C: Theres no advantage to having Commerce+Harbour except some gold. the REASON you make them is for trade routes
Having production is always better compared to gold. Coastal cities have less housing and you are building 3 districts, so you are already blocking a campus or theater district or a industrial zone, which would be more benefial no matter which victory condition you are going for.
In a weird way, this Civ reminds me of Polynesia from V. Georgia-tier most of the time but situationally broken if you play on the right map - on island plates or fractal map, you could really island-hop your capital and aggressively forward settle as if loyalty doesn’t exist. Could be pretty fun in certain situations but nevertheless I agree, super inconsistent and definitely bottom tier.
I'd argue that her most powerful bonuses are super consistent but consistently weak.
Did he just say the Cree are weak? They can be crazy powerful for a science victory.
They are weak because none of their bonuses are specific to a victory condition.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey that is circular reasoning
@@thatcrazykid1393 Its really not. Its quite simple. A civilization with bonuses towards a specific victory type will be able to make more of the key resource yield and be able to make them earlier.
A civilization with no specific bonus is not much better than a civilization with no bonus with regards to winning a specific victory type.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey You're ignoring the need for an industrial base. In Civ6 the number of districts is King. Civilizations like the Cree and Phoenicia are able to come online very quickly and found more cities than other civilizations. Seondok might have 6 really good science cities but Phoenicia with 12 campuses can still output more science. In Civ 5 the Shoshone were powerful because they were essentially guaranteed a good start. I think we are confusing powerful with easy. Everyone agree Sumeria is a powerful civ because of warcarts and science. It's very easy to spam warcarts and ziggurats and head to space. However they rely on specific terrain and are therefore situational. Many other civs take more skill to use but I would argue would be immune to things like war cart spam. Sure in the context of pangea diety Phoenicia doesn't fit the current meta of commercial hub campus science victory paint by numbers game. However if you take Sumeria and play on a small island or archipelago or even just a hilly map they are practically worthless. I think you're taking an incredibly narrow view of what makes an ability good or useful. You're ignoring like 75% of the game.
Are you doing a video on the new features of gathering Storm?
I don't know, the video shows you can take cities with their loyalty. You can just move the capital around to take other capitals.
I'm not sure if that would work super well. Maybe it can be used to flip a couple cities, but its SUPER Situational and requires a lot of set up and for the map to be right etc...
I'm really still hoping for a strong science civ (other than Inca) in this expansion. Maybe Babylon could come back? RF brought Korea and Scotland who are powerful, but I'd still love to see more
I think all civs have been revealed
@@PotatoMcWhiskey I think so too, but let me dream? They could make Walls of Babylon give like +2 science for each level of walls in a city, and double the amount with conservation.
What new civilization are you looking forward two playing the most
Maori/Mansa Musa
hm I like it. also I feel like in multiplayer its a good civ when you play with people who are on a different experience level.
I like the idea of stacking those early settler bonuses a lot (even though early conquest is fun, it always felt gamey not having at least 4 cities with my civs names) but I'm inclined to agree. Though two/three biremes rotating out of a cothon city for early naval conquest could be scary. Huge bummer because the aesthetics of Phoenicia are chart topping - love how the cothon looks and the deep purple looks so elegant on the map and on Dido.
I'd like to see someone retool them to be more science/maritime trade focused, especially since we didn't get our requisite science civ for GS. There's a solid base concept here for sure. It almost feels like the LA was supposed to say "Palace" rather than "Government Plaza." That would give you a real incentive to move the capital around, which at 100 production you still couldn't spam. Just...yeah, feels like something's missing. Earlier cothons (almost like their free early harbors in V)? Starting with writing?
I think they're actually fine, changing them in some of those ways would move the needle from "Eh ok" to "horrendously OP"
This civ oddly enough matches up with my exact play style. I tend to play with my capital as a super city thats purpose is to support about 7 other cities. i tend to favor internal trade routes which dido gets a bonus to, i tend to be favor commercial hubs over harbors but with this unique bonus and the buff to harbors (like there not being a naval city state type) i will defo play harbors over commercial. The government district production bonus to other districts is refreshing as building districts in my capital is normally annoying as im usually grinding out trade routes, builders, settlers (yay more bonuses, mix this with Magnus and the no loss of citizen for settlers) or essential wonders.
Loyalty terrifies me in this game, and i feel like their capital switching ability with confirmed loyalty bonuses to offensively settling on whats definitely another players expansion (the horrors of colonization right) sounds like a fun ability, keeping your cities safe with loyalty while crippling other cities with offensive loyalty.
Imagine denying a Domination victory by playing a game of funny teleporting captitals. Like you were gonna march your troops into my capital? surprise its now this island on the other side of the planet haha.
Like individually yeah these abilities are really weak but this may be my favorite civ competing with France and their lovely spy games. It allows you to be very strong not in a specific victory type, but in an annoying as hell 40k imperial wide colony empire which just sounds fun to me. Its easier to achieve victory or just deny it to others when you just have a better empire than others. What do others think?
This civ will be a lot more powerful in combination with JFD's Rule With Faith as you can set up as many Government Plazas as you want meaning 50% production towards districts in most if not all cities and you will be able to get a ton of traders out if you settle a lot in a short amount of time. This could put Phoenicia out in front just a bit earlier with all the food, production and gold you can get from Trade Routes.
Yeah cool bonussen but not good for Any kind of victory you would think but naval domination must be really good with this civ
As always, good video to and solid analysis. As usual, you missed a few points your loyal and helpful fans point out. In one video stream you wax eloquently about finding a play style that you enjoy. So true. I personally love playing on archipelago maps. With GS there will be enough sea faring civs to enjoy a descent and competitive game.
Two points I have not seen covered by others yet, forward settling islands just off the coast will make this civ super annoying even in multi player and a Magnus chop with one turn left on a settler with all the production bonus can really help rush out other production, perhaps any number of coastal wonders?
I like that shade of PURPLE
Remember your Australia gameplay. how it's a struggle to get loyalty for those conquered cities
Would she be less prone to some of the natural disasters, having less cities on land tiles? Just a thought
D tier Georgia bad civ unless it's a naval map then they are an S tier Domination civ. Half off harbors and 50% production towards all naval units in every era sets them on a clear path towards domination. The rest is loyalty mechanics for domination. Also the extra 2 movement on embarked settlers is being really underrated. In the early game that doubles their movements speed and shaves the number of lost turns for the city in half.
I use a mod called "Better coastal cities and water tiles" which rebalances coastal cities and the harbor district, which now gives food and gold to water tiles (based pn which buildings you built). And Phoenicia looks very, very strong with such a mod enabled. I don't think naval civs can do anything on Pangaea anyway, so maybe try looking at this civ through another lens? Like all naval civs we've seen (Norway, Indonesia, Maori...) they suffer from the same problem: they own half as many useful tiles as other civs' cities. You can't use water tiles for anything without a mod.
I know I am late here but this can be very intresting to play her as colonial power
think about it settle region around you and then settle somewere else with bonuses you got for colonies on diffrent continent
just ago you made a very intresting power play especially if you built specific wonders
Think one of their better strats is going wide rather than tall and playing loyalty pressure games to take over the world without fighting, using their far-edge coastal cities as military anchors.
So many new civs!
11:46 the word you are looking for is Derp!
This seems to mean that you can build more than 1 government plaza for this civ and in theory have 1 per city that you change to being your capital. If it's already built then when you move your capital i'd assume that building still exists in that city and it's bonuses will still run.
What makes you think that? Government plaza doesnt have to be in your capital and it clearly says one per civ in its description. Nothing here suggests otherwise
@@isaacjohnston8831 Have i misread it. tbh haven't built one in the last few games, although i don't tend to build it early. Could've sworn it says must be built next to city centre in the capital. I've probably misread it and assumed if you build next to city centre in capital, and then move capital, maybe you could build another. Although with it being 1 per civ, then that makes my whole original point mute. Ah well.
As I expected, Georgia was mentioned :^)
those gallies could quickly take early cities but how often is that relevant not sure
never relevant. The AI has too much ground army to make naval conquest worth it since they will be able to retake - mostly applies to pre-frigate navies.
Dido can escape from having her capitol captured by packing up and moving farther away from advancing forces too
While I'm certainly going to try out Phoenicia, I did kind of get a vibe like they were rushed. Using the Ottoman theme, and abilities that just don't sit right. Of course they're very interesting abilities and the Cothon looks fantastic
Theme will be changed, Firaxis said that the Ottoman theme was put into the video on error, Thursday they'll showcase the Phoenician theme
I mean I had a feeling the theme would change. I just mean it felt rushed out for the first look
Cities FOUNDED on the same continent as capital is always loyal. Does this mean if I move the capital they remain loyal?
Don't think so.
I hope it means that. That would open up some interesting forward settling strategies on far continents.
Reread it. Founded by dido and on the same continent as her capital. So no, that wouldn't work. Also means any conquered coastal cities wont be 100% loyal by default. I agree with potato here, potentially strong but very situational.
Phoenicia is actually Canaan ! So don't worry about the spelling : )
And when it comes to its people, they refered to themselves as "Sidonians", "Tyrians", since they never unified as a kingdom or empire. If we wanted to be precise, we're actually playing Tyre and the Tyrians ! Which I am suuuuuuper happy about because I'm actually one hehe
Finally, I get to play my favorite game ever as actual Phoenicia and not Carthage !
The attributes of the civ really reflects its historical role. Focused around maritime trade and never managing to really unify as a kingdom, being hammered and encircled by neighboring imperialistic civs . Generations of sailors and adventurers that departed from their homeland in search of a better living...
Lebanon never changes :')
Wow! Maybe you should try have a more calm conversation, and not call the other person shit in your first five words. One is rarely convinced by being insulted.
@@Shain3333 The guy is not trying to have a conversation. He's clearly a coptic extremist.
He's not factual at all and don't seem to know much about the region's history, so I don't mind.
Lol honestly folks say they died off but idk but being represented by someone that literally left is so accurate lmao. Also lol to the folks wanting to bash on us in the comments.
I like to play on maps with a lot of water and don't mind playing a weaker civ so I am enjoying it at least. I also don't play on a super high difficulty either so one could argue downsides don't matter so much.
The point of the loyalty bonus isn't just to settle cities. Its also to conquer them. Coastal conquests can be tough if loyalty will undermine the city after the conquest (because all adjacent cities are from the enemy civ you attacked). Dido can take a coastal city and keep it regardless of loyalty issues. This means she can also build up her own cities, sandwich her enemies non coastal cities in between her empire and her coastal conquests, and use loyalty to take more cities.
The loyalty is for founded cities
so no
Feels the same power level as Canada, France, Georgia, the newer blue native american guy. One step from trash tier I mean, on top of "situationally strong or consistently slightly below average" tier at most. On a naval map they really start to shine, puttting them into "consistently strong" category.
A bit offtop, but how's Cree a weak civ? One of the strongest:
- your exploration is not crippled to oblivion if started inside a batch of hills or forests due to free promotion. Ever tried to do exploration through tens of wood tiles without a goodie hut? A pain. That's never the case for cree. Scouts are not useless in war. With a +100% xp card in policies, they easily get to level 3/4 granting +20 military power, which effectively makes them free light cavalry later on.
- unique improvement is better than mines in most situations, easily providing 5-6 yield tiles from the get go, which is a ton. Mekewaps are insane. I really struggle to build any mines with cree, because it is so often that mekewap does the same but with an extra gold or food and +1 housing, which is huge. Upon reaching civil service, you have a tile improvement that provides 4 to 5 food/production/gold resources on top of base tile yields, that's crazy.
- internal trade routes easily get + 3 food and gold, often times more. Combining with government plaza +1/+1 and, when appropriate, +2 from magnus, it skyrockets the internal trade routes to have them like +6/+4/+4 in the classical era. A huge boost for early development. Oh, and the trade routes give free tiles. Oh, and a free trade route on pottery, which grants those free tiles right in the beginning of the game.
Even if you get no pastures and camps (which is infinitely more rare thing that starting not on a coast for a civ even with coast bias), mekewaps are still insane, trade routes still produce tiles and there is a free one. Worst case scenario is still quite alright. As for phoenicia, the worst case scenario starting inside pangea completely negates half of abilities. Still government plaza stuff and free traderoutes are is not nothing, but still far less powerful.
Biremes are not that much stronger, just 5 combat points, the viking longship also has this bonus but has a beter secondary bonus. I think instead of protecting trade routes, a better bonus would have been more combat strengh.
One interesting thing you can do with this civ is to settle on a different continent. Then move your capitol there, so that all cities you found there on the coast on that continent will be loyal. If you have to settle other peoples land on other continents because you have no or few expansion options on your own, then, this can be a good thing since it is unlikely that loyalty is a problem in your own first cities on your own continent.
I agree with you that this civ is somewhat underwhelming, would still put them above Georgia though.
7:33-7:39 Good god I think the Micro Machine Man possessed you for a bit right there.
he is the one true god
Is it confirmed that Settlers will be able to embark into the ocean from the beginning of the game?
No
For pronunciation, try this: Foe-KNEE-shuh. Btw, you got it right at least once.
I like it, feels like it'll be a fun Civ to play. I'm only 70 hours into Civ so I'm not as experienced though
Is that a unique light house I see with the harbor?
eric brown No it's just designed that way to fit the harbor visually
i have only one question.. is this update coming to the nintendo switch??
Ask Firaxis
Potato, you're going to say Phoenicia is weak until the first game you move her capitol during a golden age and take 3 cities from a neighbor during peacetime.
You could snipe people in dark ages, without losing much momentum yourself.
can you move your capital to a captured city? or during war ?
Don't know
PotatoMcWhiskey, I think it's funny that you have difficulty pronouncing Phoenicia in that as the creator of the alphabet Phoenicia is the root of so many words dealing with language, sound, and communication (telephone, phonetic, etc...).
Richard Cramer he said it correctly and then corrected himself by saying it wrong
"Phoenicia is the Georgia of Gathering Storm". Haha, spot on.
Developers missed an opportunity to design this Civ around trading. They thrived on being the middleman for coastal trade across the Mediterranean.
I hoped that Phoenica is better with Trading and they couldve done something about amenities...
Good Civ for very large island maps.
In any case it's gonna make the domination game much more interesting
The district bug has been fixed in R&F!
PotatoMcWhiskey, I've been watching your videos for a little while now (and loving them), and only just now that it hit me... you're not say "Heeey's buddies", you're saying "Heeey spuddies"!
You're PotatoMcWhiskey.
We're your spuddies.
IT ALL ADDS UP!!!
My mind is blown.
Do you have a lisp? how have i not noticed this earlier.
I do have a mild lisp
When I watch this all I can think of is: now the Phoenicians can get down to business!
You forgot Eleanor the aquatitane (or how you spell it)
I think you missed something huge here, her ability to flip cities is massive, you can place free cities all along the coasts of your starting continent, plus the bonus to settlers, you settle around another Civ then you can move your Cap to the closest city to said Civ combined with Amani's emissary bonus the amount of loyalty pressure is insane. You have to the potential here to flip an entire Civ without ever going to war.
Not to mention every city you flip adds up the pressure
I don't think loyalty flipping cities is really very viable in Deity.
Personally, I think swapping capitals should be a thing you can do with any civ, whenever. That said, I would hope that Phoenecia would be faster and better at it. I get the idea behind the design elements, I think, but in practical terms, a lot of it isn't all it could have been. I mean for one thing, how many sea trade routes are you really going to be sending out in the stages of the game where Biremes are viable? I don't usually start seeing that happen until caravels are sailing around. Plus the bireme seems like it should be able to deal with naval raiders regardless in the early game. So I feel like a lot of Phoenecia's power is based around naval defense, and in the early game, when that's not a big deal. And on settling a widely dispersed empire of colonies all over, only that's not maybe the wisest way to build an empire. Maybe they'll be really good at dealing with Indonesia? Or the Maori? They kind of remind me of those two.
Sucks, because I fucking love Dido, and her new art is so expressive, and the art for the civ is lovely.
Swapping capitals if everyone could do it would be cancerous for Domination Multiplayer games.
People from Phoenix are Phoenicians ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
thank you for being direct! *and raising the bar for gaming, may they dev a little smarter, not harder
Foe-neesh-ah.
Extra production of settlers... okay but you need population to produce settlers. You would probably need a food-based pantheon to make a good use of the settler push.
It looks like that civs needs a follow-up move. You settle near a civ and turn one of their cities but you don't have much to protect yourself once they get pissed. They would need a land unit to be a decent domination civ.
Magnus promotion means pop doesn't reduce
Settlers are not produced with Food in Civ 6
@@PotatoMcWhiskey No, but you lose 1 population when you produce a settler, and population grows with food. If you want a rapid expansion (which seems to be Phoenicia's game), you would want your population to grow fast, at least early on.
@@ReLoadXxXxX True. That would only mitigate the cost in one city but I guess you don't need settlers produced in every city anyway.
Yeah that's a 60% discount on settlers.
Correct! A 50% production boost is a 33% discount on paper. Or in otherwords, for every 2 settlers a normal civ can build you can build 3. Buy 2 get 1 free.
100/150 = 66% cost aka 33% discount.
A 100% production discount is equivalent to a 50% discount. Buy 1 get 1 free.
100/200 = 50% discount
150% production? Buy 2 get 3 free!
100/250 = 60% Discount!
Is this the last civilization for Gathering Storm?
I think so
Thanks for replying bro 👍
Well, guess not every civ is broken, how sad... sarcasm aside, yes the abilities aren't amazing, but unique. I'm sure there will be some weirdos maining Dido :D