Damned if I’ll be watching this person. Shame you’ve decided to give him your time. I guess controversy will get you some eyeballs. Hope you asked him why people like Jenas get commentary gigs.
@@gavingillespie4032 Yeah I've just done a quick read about him. He's complaining there aren't enough white men in football careers? With what his brother did? Very interesting. The race to the bottom is picking up.
@@nforne What did I write that is innaccurate? edit - no I don't really read The Guardian. Do you guys only have about 15 responses? Ever been called an NPC?
@@rgghjs9270 You should really listen to the interview then you’ll see his views are more nuanced than “complaining there aren’t enough white men”. But instead you take your opinions pre-prepared from someone who tells you what to think. And you seem quite proud of that. 🤦♂️
Yeah. I agree with everything and ai'm not a guy. Whenever a woman goes around pretending to know about whatever she talks about, but doesnt: it makes us all look bad. I'm a gamer and whenever I see bad gamer women get all the attention for being bad at playing: it bothers me big time because people think she reprents us all. Same thing. Im not ok with men doing that to womens sports either, (trans women I mean)
As a woman, football lover, youth pro player and now training to become a referee and coach, I have already made the decision to only train girls teams even though I’ve been offered to work with both genders. However NO I WILL NOT, for two main reasons; A. even at 10/11 years old boys play a very different game and need a male athlete B. It’s been a long time dream of mine to do the qualification to referee but I have never been financial position to. The reason I finally doing it is because the FA is funding me. The sole reason for this is because I am female. Whilst I am not going to debate the rights or wrongs of this inequality, I want to embrace the opportunity but would never presume I am able to coach boys to the same standards male coaches can and subsequently take away the opportunity for boys to become amazing footballers and worst still take over in this sport or any other things in life. I will not support the current propaganda that is aimed at making males redundant in all aspects of life.
And I’ll add at the risk of being controversial… ladies take the wolf whistle and flutter your eyelids while you still get the chance instead of complaining about men not trying hard enough!!!😂
I'm a woman, I've limited knowledge about footbal. I asked my husband last weekend when he was watching footie highlights if I was hearing the female pundit correctly. When he stopped laughing, he said 'yeah I know, this is football now, that's why I cancelled the sports channels' Asked friends, yup, everyone's cancelling sports subscriptions & a lot of men have just stopped watching at all. I don't think himself has watched a match since before C*vid. Why are businesses determined to lose money & customers/viewers? Same with streaming & games. We've not bothered buying anything or renewing subscriptions.. even news sites. All cancelled.
Because w0keness isn't about making money or attracting viewers, it's about disseminating an ideology. They know that the older ones amongst us most likely won't be won over, but if they can take over our institutions and corporations, and normalise it, the next generation won't know any different. We're essentially being gr00med.
@christopher_ecclestone oh ffs DEI monsters have infected everything! They'll lose an absolute fortune. My dad's mixed, I've a hint of a tint. I keep calling out those intersectional Marxists & their heads nearly explode because they can't resort to their usual retort of 'racist'. Destroying a generation with brain rot. What idiot thinks they can change who watches football? They know these weirdos don't have any money, right?
Disaster capitalism. The idea is to bankrupt everyone so the bankers take all ( as in you will own nothing and be happy). Once the companies are wound up those suddenly overpaid ignoramus greedy women will get thrown on the heap of us rotting corpses. There is no way out. The bankers mean to exterminate us all. (Great Reset).
100%. There is nobody who hates having women in the broadcast both more than me. There's not a single thing they have to say that I'm interested in. They've just got no business there. It's not sexism or misogyny or anything like that. It's a man's sport and there should be men coaching, refereeing, commentating, etc. I also happen to believe the reverse is true. Why the hell should there be a man up in the broadcast both talking about a women's softball game? It's not your sport, buddy. If I'm listening to/watching the game, I want to hear from an ex-player from that sport.
@@brianschmitzer6722I think the original post is more about men pretending to be women and actually taking part in women's sports. Not a man commenting on a womans match on TV which probably isn't going to happen that often nowadays anyway.
100%. As a woman and long time football supporter, I hate the vast majority of women commentators. Everyone I know who watches football, hates the women commentators and switches off, turns the volume down etc …… Well done Joey Barton for saying what the overwhelming majority of football supporters think. So sad that there is such a pushback on this ….diversity hires do not work if people are really honest. Meritocracy clearly works on the field and should be the modus operandi off field too.
@@theinngu5560 It's the gas lighting where they try to convince us women's football is somehow at the same level as the men's game I find laughable. It happens with basketball, cricket, rugby etc. It causes more harm to women's sport.
@@theinngu5560 I've heard a few women commentators that are really good. the women's team won the euros which is better than the men could do. There is a winning mentality there that the men should be learning from
Plenty of women agree. I've worked with a woman who was raging when she realised she was a diversity hire because she was mixed race, and quit shortly after that. She didn't want to be working somewhere where she was valued her for her skin. Plus, who will respect you at your job when everyone knows you're there not because of your experience and ability?
He’s right. Diversity, equity & inclusion is ruining football punditry. I’ve been a season ticket holder at a Premier League Club for over 30 years & a female & I don’t like the female pundits being pushed in the men’s game because they really don’t have the same depth of knowledge as male professional footballers. I cancelled Sky Sports because I don’t want woke politics pushed at me constantly when I just want to enjoy watching the football. The BBC & ITV are just as bad. I don’t watch women’s football because it’s not the same game as the men’s game. Men should be able to object to football being highjacked for political ends without being attacked as misogynists but on the issue rather than personal attacks on appearance. This was a really interesting conversation.
I think the double standards in womens sports is astonishing, I get why 6'4" males shouldnt be in womens sports but by the same token, what does a woman player know about the men's game?
@@heatherboardman7004exactly,the Boeing boss who called it out is dead because he voiced his opinion on Boeing's recent employment criteria has affected their build quality causing planes to fall apart mid air.
It wasn’t ‘designed’ to. People believed it was for the good and for the benefit of the weak and truly oppressed. But yes, the design is deeply flawed BECAUSE it IS divisive.
@@walterstockhecker5579 Well it was designed to or rather Oh this is useful for x y and z "division being a main one" . These think tanks we have no access to , the multi generational look into human phycology by institutes such as Tavistock and we can go deep into that globally which are intelligence used from wars in china , Russia , japan during world wars and proxxys . They know human behaviour down to a T and social engineer almost everything. Bit tech use some of this understanding also . Then we got the age of data to A.I , humans will at some point will never know they live a complete fake reality once we give are thinking away to machines. Identity politics is a tiny part of a multitude of social engineering going on.
Wow what a revelation! From how the media portray him I thought Joey was a thick northern thug. He is much more articulate and intelligent than I thought. Just shows that if you’re open minded and give someone a chance despite your preconceptions then you can learn a lot.
@@philomena3529 which ones do you mean, specifically? I don’t pretend to know a lot of what he has said previously but you have to admit that in this discussion his points are valid?
I wrote a romantic comedy, raised $5m, had a major distributor onboard for world wide distribution, then I was told I was not allowed to direct my own movie because I wasn’t a woman, and I had to hire a women to re-write my script, the lead has to be Asian, the love interest African/American, and all the jokes had to be removed so not to offend anyone…. I now can’t afford to live.
Here in Ireland, we used to have a football analysis panel on tv, made up of four ex pros who played in the 60s / 70s and 80s. The analysis was top notch but the main reason they were so revered is because they were blunt, honest and all good friends away from the studio. It was like tuning in to watch a pub chat after a game.... Now the woke virus has reached us too and every sports broadcast must have a female presenter and at least one female analyst. Preferably with a couple of "safe" yesmen on the panel who wont scare the suits up stairs. The quality of analysis has nose dived and the whole thing is often stilted, dry and corporate.
I get it, I do but you have to start somewhere with change. The more women do this stuff the better they will get. You have to start somewhere. I’m pretty sure there are plenty of places where there are all male pundits you can listen to. Start watching snooker or darts.
I was being flippant, probably because I’m not a man so it’s easy to be flippant about stuff that doesn’t effect me. However, my life has been mostly dominated by patriarchy in its many forms so although I think you are right about women in areas were there hasn’t been a role for them before I find it hard to be overly sympathetic. My only hope is that women will learn that a, ‘man’s world,’ whatever that is, will not bring them the freedom they seek.
Listening to Joey took me back to school days in Liverpool. Rapier wit and willingness to take it back with a laugh, accompanied by an obligatory bullsh*t detector, which comes with the territory in Liverpool. What a breath of fresh air to hear someone speak openly.
I think women are perfectly capable of becoming football commentators. But they should only be hired if they’re better than other candidates. A diversity hire for the sake of it shows contempt for sports and ironically sets women’s rights back decades.
I agree. However for commentary, the voice matters. Not even all men are suited. And I’m yet to hear a women who isn’t too shrill and distracting, so far anyway.
@AsphodeliaD Totally. I used to listen to TMS religiously. Now I hardly bother. Ruined. And ITV's coverage of the Rugby World Cup....Jesus Christ....Claire Thomas' commentary ruined several games until my wife suggested we find a radio station to sync up and listen to that instead.
Woman Chelsea fan here, who qualified as a referee many years ago as a teenager. Totally in agreement with Joey until he said men "have to work to provide for their families". Newsflash Joey, so do women! That aside, the women's game is far less physical, fast, and comparatively less skillful too. Equal pay and appointment can only come when the ability is equal.
Also the money comes from having a bigger ordinance, and most football fans pay sky and Bt sport to watch the men’s game, and it’s the men’s game selling out football grounds.
Fellow woman here, also mixed so I'm extremely confused about who they're providing the representation for exactly?! This DEI sh!te has completely stopped us spending money on subscriptions, husband even cancelled sports channels. It's all garbage! I shouldn't know more about football than a pundit... some are absolutely clueless
One or two women is OK, but they are on every match on every channel , either presenting , pundit and Co commentator, I dont care about what he said about needing to provide , im coming at it from the side of them being useless, its embarrassing to hear then try and have the banter as a pundit, or talk rubbish as Co commentator, the decision to flood men's football has ruined it
I really enjoyed this conversation, it was nice to meet you Joey Barton. I'm not into football but it was fascinating to hear you speak on the subjects currently affecting the sport and basically everything else in society today.
Great interview Andrew..... Am a scouser so i get where Joey is coming from in our city most people speak there mind and take the piss out of each other so we can give it out but we can also take it and he is spot on about diversity race gender etc its happening in all walks of life when in reality it should be the best qualified for the position regardless of anything else.....
I just had a huge falling out with my brother-in-law because I said I agree with Joey. I was instantly a Nazi of course. The sheer power and physicality of male football is frightening. Most people see football on TV or from deep in the stands. Try being on the touchline and see two male athletes hurtling towards a 50 / 50 ball. I recall Serena Williams saying male tennis is a completely different game due to the sheer power difference and that's a game without physical contact. I trust Serena more than my brother-in-law!
I really enjoyed this discussion because of the uncensored truth of it. I am an old school feminist from the 60s and what we defined as equality, in those days , is different from being and having the same as men. It was a protest against societal acceptance that women were considered inferior and limited in the roles they could play. Then men made the rules and if women knew what was good for them they'd obey. For example, when I was at Teachers College in 1966, women were not allowed to wear trousers and in the classroom you had to wear stockings. No naked legs were permitted. I dont think people realise how oppressed women were by trivial, petty nonsense. I could not get a mortgage on my own simply because I was and still am by the way, female.😂 Did I want to be the same as a man? Hell no! They suffered compulsory conscription for one thing. Old spice, walk shorts and bryl cream were not on my list of wants and desires. I can't stand the woke culture as its so ridiculously fundamentalist. Equality is not being the same as.
I feel the same as you, but I do worry that some would like to drag us back to the bad old days when women couldn't get mortgages, credit cards or vote.
To be fair to mortgage companies, all they want is surety for getting their money back - and the interest, of course. Since most women back then married and left the full-time job market they were unlikely to be able to repay the loan.
Yes, he's actually terribly, terribly bright and speaks delightfully sotto voce even when he's threatening Eni Aluko's family or trivialising the racist murder by his brother with an ice-axe as, 'a scrap'. A genuinely lovely man who you'd definitely want your daughter to start dating no doubt.
As someone without an exact ideological home, I appreciate your work and your attitude so much, Andrew. I listen religiously and suggest it to people all the time. Your affability and interviewing skills make you a great host & the guests you pick are so interesting. Keep up the good work.
@@andrewgoldheretics Dunno, maybe joey barton masquerades as a sexy female benefactor when he's not making veiled threats to Eni Aluko's family or trivialising his brothers racist ice-axe murder of Anthony Walker.
Thank you back. Please cover trans widows. I am a subscriber and a trans widow since my ex husband's one appointment diagnosis in July of 1993. Documented by PhD psychologist's sworn affidavit in our divorce, Kings County, NY, 1997. He's been saying he's the mother of the two sons I birthed in 1988 and 1991. They do that. "unqualified" --thanks Joey
I think its an interesting point , I've always wondered how parents feel , you have essentially lost a son who has transitioned, the idea you gave birth to a boy , then 20 years later they have no son and find themselves with a Daughter , surely there must be some grief for losing a Son ???
They feel terrible if they live so long as to witness the bone demineralization, liver and kidney failure as well as incontinence from the surgeries, which are common risks of this medicalization of a psychiatric illness. @@steve10
I'm sorry this happened to you, and your children. I have been put in a very similar situation myself. And there are many, many more of us, as this evil insanity rolls on. Lord have mercy!
@@steve10My cousin, male, transed. One of 3 boys. My Aunt coped by saying She now has the daughter she always wanted. Fair play though, he carried on going to Upton Park during the process of transitioning, shit hair, shit make up, shit boobs. Got loadsa stick from Hammers fans who ain't the most delicate of Luvlies. Gotta give respect for that. Tough road to walk I would imagine. His makeup skills have improved but he's still 6'1 broad shouldered. COYI. Made of Steel that bird is. 💪
Don’t tell anyone but I was standing in the layby on A48 just outside Newnham (England) early in the morning with my thumb out, hoping for a lift south. I had a long journey ahead of me to a village in Sussex. After only a few minutes a van pulled in and after thanking him I jumped into the passenger seat. Then after an embarrassingly short conversation I was forced to understand that this chap was a local farmer and had pulled into that layby to feed his sheep and wasn’t offering me a lift anywhere!!!
Just suppose for a moment there is a World Championship chess tournament and former World champion Gary Kasparov has been invited in to comment on it for TV, next to a female black woman who's actual level of chess is middle school level and so poor he could beat her in less than 4 moves, repeatedly, over and over! And yet she has been brought in to add expertise. She is getting paid as much as he is. How would you feel? That's the gap, the gulf between Professional Men's football and the Womens game. Somewhat embarrassing isn't it!
"... he could beat her in less than 4 moves, repeatedly, over and over" Since you obviously don't play chess, why don't you use something else for your analogy?
@@DieFlabbergast I just want to say my heart goes out to you! To go through life with such a deeply disfiguring facial defect must be awful. You were obviously born sneering as well as being supremely smug and unpleasant. But just for the record Fool's Mate is two moves. So please don't embarrass yourself even more. Go quietly.
@@DieFlabbergast At the time I'm writing this, 28 people have thought that 'beating somebody in 4 moves in chess' is a good enough analogy that they have upvoted it. Andrew Gold appears to have found his demographic. I only feel bad that the UA-cam algorithm seems to think I'm part of that demographic...
I remember applying to be a police MAN and I was sent a letter back saying the force are doing "Positive Discrimination" basicaly "You're white, you're male, You're straight, We can't take you on" I am in total agreement we need equality of chance in the workplace, but is being openly predudice to "right the wrongs" because I now don't fit the quota actually any better?
No it certainly isn’t. My best friend is a cop (we’re in our 50’s now) and she’s quite (very, actually😂) tall, and strong. For a woman. Being physically strong as a woman can’t compare with the physical strength of men. That said, many women has other skills or perhaps advantages, if you will, that can be assets in the police force. However hiring/accepting to the academy based on quotas is not only a bad idea but a dangerous one. At least that’s what I think. Being rejected the way you were, for that reason, is ridiculous.
Just want to say that I'm really enjoying your new heretics podcast. I used to watch your other channel, and (for me, at least), it was a bit hit or miss. This is all hits. Well done.
Just to point out Andrew, the reason girls were not playing football is because we were never offered it in lessons, never allowed in teams, never encouraged and bullied if we showed an interest.
No. That may be a part of it, but it's no secret that boys/men are more interested in sports than girls/women. Men and Women are different, not entirely, but in important ways, and that's ok. In fact it's necessary.
@@Ladyjojo695 my wife, mum and daughters would much rather watch netball. Netball Superleague is intending to go professional next year. I'm not sure what that means or if it's a good idea, but netball is definitely thriving.
I agree with his opinion of Vine. A few years ago he did a very dodgy segment on his radio show about a young boy who did a drag show not being allowed to present his sexually provocative act at his school end of year show. Vine was outraged and bought one of the drag race stars to encourage him and give him gifts of makeup and clothes. The lad was 12! How was this not grooming? I've never listened to him since.
I am not remotely interested in football, but this was another fascinating episode. An intelligent, articulate, humble person, nothing like the man he is portrayed to be in the press.
If women went to women's games weekly, bought the season tickets, shirts, calendars and subcribed to sports channels in the same numbers that men do for the men's game, guess what? Women's footy would be huge and have billions sloshing about for development and promotion. But they don't. Most of them support it purely theoretically. The next time someone tells you "they should get the same attention as the men" ask them to name 5 players that aren't in the England national team....
@@apebass2215’Valid’ (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent. If you position yourself as a rational, liberal person then it’s kind of important to reject an unsound argument, e.g. one that suggests bringing half of humanity under authoritarian rule on the basis of their gonads. That doesn’t mean you’re stopping anyone else from thinking that. I reject Islamism and flat-earthers’ arguments too. You can discuss them all you like but he was talking like this person had as good a point as anyone. Some ideas are shit and it’s OK to say so.
@@MissUltimaThule well I'm not a liberal and whilst I don't agree that women should lose the vote there are rational arguments for that. Many women now, including young women, are really not happy with the world feminists created. Many women don't want to vote. They want a husband, a house and a family and they don't want to work. My daughter is 14 and she said that to me.
@@MissUltimaThule The problem is - who decides what is "reasonable"? Before women got the vote, many people considered that giving women the vote was ridiculous. It was only by expressing their "awful" views and persuading people that the campaigners for women's emancipation were successful.
GO ON JOEY! I would pay good money to see him running rings round the women’s team wearing a pink wig! This needs to be done, super trolling to get his point across.😆
I think he's generally correct in pointing out real problems. I think he's entitled to his opinion without being harassed. I also think that commentators in the entertainment industry should be selected according to what their consumers want; if consumers want a woman from the bus stop to comment on a game, that's fine. Football is an entertainment industry that rationally should serve the demands of it's consumers as best it can.
100% agree with Joey. Womens football is not as good as mens, period. They shouldn't be taking the punters jobs. I'm a woman I watch mens football because women's football isn't as good, it's boring in comparison. Keep it up Joey I'm with you 👏👏🇬🇧
If a woman's the best one for the job, she should get it. If the man's better, he should. It should be on meritocracy, not sex, and not race. We get female commentators on men's tennis and vice versa.
Gotta love Joey. It's enormously refreshing to hear an plain-speaking non-woke guy stating the obvious, & defying our woke version of the 1960's Maoist Cultural Revolutionary student mobs.
Men comment on women sports all the time (if we're lucky enough women's sports get air time at all), so I don't understand why. In Italy some women do the job perfectly and run the sport news as well
I've no idea about the details of the Jeremy Vine thing, but quick point of order: *No one* pays road tax - there's no such thing. Every (smug, perhaps) cyclist knows this fact - but all too many non-cycling drivers don't have a clue and make the same mistake that Joey does here.
I like a lot of what Joey says but he's missing a fundamental point. The 'elite' male ex players who can't get jobs in the media, don't need jobs in the media. If you have just retired in the last 5 years and were playing in the Premier League, and you need media money, something has gone badly wrong with your financial decisions. The ladies getting the jobs have come from 30-40k a year, playing contracts. The men from 100k a week playing contracts. I don't disagree that the best qualified should be talking, but I also see the other side of coin.
Joey had very valid points to make. His arguments hold weight BUT he started the childish name calling and the detracted from what he had to say and allowed the mainstream media to attack him and invalidate the genuine points he had to make.
He says men that have played the sport should be the ones in pundit positions because they know more. Then he proceeds to say how Postecoglou is a chameleon and spurs is having a normal spursy season..... Im glad he isnt one of the "experts" -__-
Andrew, I've enjoyed your podcast. But in this episode you haven't pushed the guest at all. I understand you're a football fan, but that's not very professional. Some of the things this man said are clearly misogynistic--like women not being able to vote is a valid opinion?? Also the guest had domestic violence charges against him--why there was no question about that? Similarly some of his assaults in his youth may have been racially motivated, but there were no follow up questions on that. I don't agree with a lot of contemporary identity politics, but being anti-'woke' is different from potentially being racist and misogynistic, which the guest may well be. Finally, many have commented that men have occupied media space/broadcast positions in a lot of women's sports, even in sports (such as rhythmic gymnastics) which men don't even practice. However, this point has never been brought up.
@@ashleywebb2736 because he claims to not shy away from sensitive topics and asking hard questions. This only works if he applies this standard to all guests.
I’m 6’2” and female. Did football (defence - I like kicking people up in the air) and weightlifting. I used to be nervous playing against other women because I was aware how much bigger than them I was (and usually stronger). I occasionally tried playing in men’s teams, against other men. It was a fkn joke. I literally had no hope. It’s simple physical reality - women are not as strong or as fast as men. It annoyed the hell out of me, but nothing I did could ever change that. No point lying about it. Reality is what it is. Blokes can wear whatever they want, but they don’t belong in women’s spaces - and absolutely not in women’s sports. It not even that it’s not fair, it’s not even *safe*. And he is bang on the nose about lower league football needing more exposure and support. They’re the fundamentals, the basics of football in this country, they develop young talent and give local communities identity and a place to congregate. Lower league football is already threatened by the cash at the top. Big clubs and Sky tv will do whatever it takes for profit, even if it means playing league games in America and half the football league going out of business. They’re the biggest threat to football in this country.
When people realized they could make a good living in academics, politics and media, pitting groups against one another, they embraced intersectional philosophy, identity politics and DEI.
A person should be appointed to a job based on merit and merit alone - not any other political trend. Not race, not gender, not any sort of inclination. That is just basic common sense.
Andrew I think your great. The discussion highlighted some really good issues which need to be discussed, but it became very uncomfortable at times. Its not right to call people names in public. 'Looking like a cabbage patch doll' is demeaning and nasty. Hopefully a woman on TV would not disrespect you in front of thousands and call you a feminine string bean. (I'm sorry I don't mean it, its just an example of mean and belittling speech). Most of the time the victim of the insult can't answer back. I'm not preaching DEI, I'm talking about respecting each other. Female (girls) were discouraged to play football and if they reached a level of skill similar to boys at club level, they wouldn't accept them and they were banned. So that's why the business side of female game and the number and depth of players can't be compared to the men's team. Of course, as people, until recently, have argued that with all sports there's is a difference due to anatomy and physiology of the sexes. Again when I was listening to the discussion there was a level of disrespect running through the conversation. I'm an avid watcher, so keep up with inviting the different guest. I enjoy your technique and style of interviewing too.
This post👍 I’m a female UA-camr and at times this felt like bashing women. Folks forget how late we started in most professions, especially football. I interviewed the legendary manager of Arsenal’s quadruple winning team and these women were part-timers. Some worked in the box office for the club. This wasn’t so long ago either. These women are trailblazers who helped evolve the game. Players from this squad have earned the opportunities presented to them. Why are some men afraid of female progress? A lot of the women commentating have played at the highest level and won more than Joey. Also there are many male managers in the women’s game? Nobody is complaining about that. And Joey’s tweets have been abusive and bullying. Nothing funny about it and it’s ridiculous to suggest it’s good publicity for them.
Ah yes, lovely little joey, a nice man who described the racist murder committed by his brother, with an ice axe, as, a 'scrap' and who also said he knows where Eni Aluko's family live. What a top fella, it's important we hear his views and really get to understand his nuanced perspective. Maybe he'll even explain nietzsche to us.
Interesting discussion. In this - I won’t use ‘woman’ it’s lost its meaning. Im a 66 yr old American feminist per the original definition - provide opportunity for females to play, participate, contribute. In economics there is a concept called “Infant Industry”. When a developing country wants to replace importing a product by making their own they will accept the cost and problems of shielding new industries until they can flourish. Countries like the U.S. complain about the unfairness and inefficiency of this protectionist practice. I consider much of female sport to be an infant industry. It requires accepting some cost, inefficiency and different performance criterion. In my youth I was a devoted College Basketball fan - until the 3-point shot was implemented. It radically changed the game - I no longer watch, nor care much, because I consider the game boring. Are you guys like me - the girls game is different? Have you given it a chance; have you looked for the nuance? I did - the 3-point shot killed the inside game and it instilled a selfish ‘I’m keeping the ball so I can get the 3 from way out in Kansas’ team play be damned attitude. Yuck. A TV audience must be built - forget “their own channel” idea. Nor should TV broadcast equal numbers of female and male games. Only the best matchups should be on TV, paired with a good male matchup, and, importantly, there should be a dynamic, knowledgeable female and male analysis-pairing discussing both games. Teach the viewers how to enjoy both games. Building on opportunity takes time. All that said, the female ‘commenter’ that Barton said did not know players names - he’s correct, she should not have been put in that situation. She was stupid to take it. She was set up to look bad. I know from experience that any female taking a spot from a male has to perform near perfection. She should have studied the rosters of both teams, watched past games to know specialties, know players’ histories and past injuries. Otherwise, just don’t show up. She confirmed male expectations for ignorance and expecting unwarranted equal treatment. In the end, if certain female sports can’t develop a market, too bad. But, I have felt strongly for my 60+ years of life - cut the crap, drop the attitude and just give us a chance. Now, don’t even get me started on 6’4” post-pubescent males thinking he should be allowed to compete in “Women’s Swimming” or any other Female Sport- a ‘Trans Woman’ is not Female. End of comment. Thanks for discussion and my opportunity to throw in.
having read/heard about joey barton second hand - i cant believe how articulate and intelligently made his points actually are. The exaggeration from our media is ridiculous, hes just a normal bloke and what hes saying isnt particularly out there or shocking
Commenting for the algorithm. I love being a little late to the live stream and listening x2 speed… when I catch up you guys sound like you've had strokes out of nowhere.
I don't get the whole Oh the best womens team lost to a bunch of good 15 year old players when you start from the position that the womens game is alot slower and the physical capabilities are so different. The reason they play the boys is because they know themselves that those teams are better and they want the challenge so they can get better themselves. There is no shame in it, its a sensible way for them to improve. They know that against a mens team they wouild likely just get hurt so you don't see that and rightfully so.
He talks about having to have played at the top level then sights Des Lynham who commentated for over 40 years without ever having played! Crying for Joey as a man having to feed his family. 😢
You means cites? He mentioned that sometimes someone can just have decades of experience watching it and then used Des as an example of that. And Des was an anchor, not a pundit. And he mentioned Gabby Logan is a good anchor and example of that same skillset. So I see no unfairness in that.
He makes a clear distinction between commentators who tend not to have a football background and pundits who are ex-footballers. Don't comment if you didn't listen to what he said.
I don't think I'll be taking any lessons from a man sentenced to six months' imprisonment for common assault and affray, not mention the allegations he's faced of assaulting his wife and other women.
I ain't bothered what he has done , he's done his time ,,, he speaks the truth so I'll listen , if he was saying we should go out and stub a cigar out in someone's eye like he did then I would say he is an utter tw@ ,, he speaks the truth , to deny it just because he was a thug is just daft
You can listen to, and agree with, what a person says and still stand against what they do. There are all these wonderful and varied shades of grey in the world, there doesn't have to be a black and white "he's done bad things so everything he says is bad"... That's a fairly immature way to think.
100% men and women are different in every single wayvaccept needing food, warmth and shelter. Please can this be celebrated again x This continual division is poisoning and stopping men being men and women being women x
My son 11, years old, could make that logical assumption too with no prior education. It is Not inclusive to let men beat the sht out of a woman in womens sport.
Joey Barton is 💯 right. And before I get all the woke haters, I run girls and ladies teams and I'm very proud of all the females I have coached and managed and the levels they have aspired too. The difference between a male and female football team, particularly in the early teen years and beyond, when both male and female bodies and genetics change the most, its huge. I would happily play boys teams up to U12s but their after the physicality, strength and speed in boys just took over. We have no balance whatsoever on MSM and if you have played at the highest level and you are a white male (woke Lineker apart) you have no chance...
Never heard of this guest, however I still found this topic and conversation very interesting and insightful. Thank you Andrew for another brilliant episode of Heretics ❤️👍🏼
Hit like, comment - is Joey Barton right that some unqualified women are being promoted for diversity reasons?
Damned if I’ll be watching this person. Shame you’ve decided to give him your time. I guess controversy will get you some eyeballs. Hope you asked him why people like Jenas get commentary gigs.
@@gavingillespie4032 Yeah I've just done a quick read about him. He's complaining there aren't enough white men in football careers? With what his brother did? Very interesting. The race to the bottom is picking up.
@@rgghjs9270 Let me guess, you did your research in the Guardian?
@@nforne What did I write that is innaccurate?
edit - no I don't really read The Guardian. Do you guys only have about 15 responses? Ever been called an NPC?
@@rgghjs9270 You should really listen to the interview then you’ll see his views are more nuanced than “complaining there aren’t enough white men”. But instead you take your opinions pre-prepared from someone who tells you what to think. And you seem quite proud of that. 🤦♂️
He's telling the truth, which is why he's getting so much hate. You get rewarded for lying and punished for telling the truth
Lie are easily defeated by truth. Truth can only be made to go away by attacking the people speaking it.
Men can't get pregnant... women don't have penises
Yeah.
I agree with everything and ai'm not a guy.
Whenever a woman goes around pretending to know about whatever she talks about, but doesnt: it makes us all look bad.
I'm a gamer and whenever I see bad gamer women get all the attention for being bad at playing: it bothers me big time because people think she reprents us all.
Same thing.
Im not ok with men doing that to womens sports either, (trans women I mean)
As a woman, football lover, youth pro player and now training to become a referee and coach, I have already made the decision to only train girls teams even though I’ve been offered to work with both genders. However NO I WILL NOT, for two main reasons;
A. even at 10/11 years old boys play a very different game and need a male athlete
B. It’s been a long time dream of mine to do the qualification to referee but I have never been financial position to. The reason I finally doing it is because the FA is funding me. The sole reason for this is because I am female. Whilst I am not going to debate the rights or wrongs of this inequality, I want to embrace the opportunity but would never presume I am able to coach boys to the same standards male coaches can and subsequently take away the opportunity for boys to become amazing footballers and worst still take over in this sport or any other things in life. I will not support the current propaganda that is aimed at making males redundant in all aspects of life.
And I’ll add at the risk of being controversial… ladies take the wolf whistle and flutter your eyelids while you still get the chance instead of complaining about men not trying hard enough!!!😂
“No one is more hated then he who speaks the truth”: Plato
I'm a woman, I've limited knowledge about footbal.
I asked my husband last weekend when he was watching footie highlights if I was hearing the female pundit correctly.
When he stopped laughing, he said 'yeah I know, this is football now, that's why I cancelled the sports channels'
Asked friends, yup, everyone's cancelling sports subscriptions & a lot of men have just stopped watching at all.
I don't think himself has watched a match since before C*vid.
Why are businesses determined to lose money & customers/viewers?
Same with streaming & games. We've not bothered buying anything or renewing subscriptions.. even news sites.
All cancelled.
Because w0keness isn't about making money or attracting viewers, it's about disseminating an ideology.
They know that the older ones amongst us most likely won't be won over, but if they can take over our institutions and corporations, and normalise it, the next generation won't know any different.
We're essentially being gr00med.
@christopher_ecclestone oh ffs
DEI monsters have infected everything!
They'll lose an absolute fortune.
My dad's mixed, I've a hint of a tint.
I keep calling out those intersectional Marxists & their heads nearly explode because they can't resort to their usual retort of 'racist'.
Destroying a generation with brain rot.
What idiot thinks they can change who watches football? They know these weirdos don't have any money, right?
@@christopher_ecclestoneYou are correct, but the end goal is the complete erasure of our culture and ultimately, our existence.
@@christopher_ecclestoneexactly, the powers that be are playing the long game, not about short term profit, but long term power
Disaster capitalism. The idea is to bankrupt everyone so the bankers take all ( as in you will own nothing and be happy). Once the companies are wound up those suddenly overpaid ignoramus greedy women will get thrown on the heap of us rotting corpses. There is no way out. The bankers mean to exterminate us all. (Great Reset).
I agree with him, however, I hope he speaks out against men in women's sports.
100%. There is nobody who hates having women in the broadcast both more than me. There's not a single thing they have to say that I'm interested in. They've just got no business there. It's not sexism or misogyny or anything like that. It's a man's sport and there should be men coaching, refereeing, commentating, etc.
I also happen to believe the reverse is true. Why the hell should there be a man up in the broadcast both talking about a women's softball game? It's not your sport, buddy. If I'm listening to/watching the game, I want to hear from an ex-player from that sport.
@@brianschmitzer6722I think the original post is more about men pretending to be women and actually taking part in women's sports. Not a man commenting on a womans match on TV which probably isn't going to happen that often nowadays anyway.
I couldn't comment, don't watch female sports. Why would I if I can access the elite?
@@fffoolishnomore3834That's why I don't watch my son's shit Sunday football team 😂😂 only elite for me too.
@@utv5490 saddest flex ever. Don't call him your son if you're not going to take care of him
Diversity hires are nonsense. The best person needs to get the job, not to get pity hire to fill some diversity quotas!
100%. As a woman and long time football supporter, I hate the vast majority of women commentators. Everyone I know who watches football, hates the women commentators and switches off, turns the volume down etc ……
Well done Joey Barton for saying what the overwhelming majority of football supporters think. So sad that there is such a pushback on this ….diversity hires do not work if people are really honest. Meritocracy clearly works on the field and should be the modus operandi off field too.
@@theinngu5560 It's the gas lighting where they try to convince us women's football is somehow at the same level as the men's game I find laughable. It happens with basketball, cricket, rugby etc. It causes more harm to women's sport.
@@theinngu5560Vicki Sparks the worst for me. Sounds like Alan Partridge 😂
@@theinngu5560
I've heard a few women commentators that are really good. the women's team won the euros which is better than the men could do. There is a winning mentality there that the men should be learning from
Plenty of women agree. I've worked with a woman who was raging when she realised she was a diversity hire because she was mixed race, and quit shortly after that. She didn't want to be working somewhere where she was valued her for her skin. Plus, who will respect you at your job when everyone knows you're there not because of your experience and ability?
He’s right. Diversity, equity & inclusion is ruining football punditry. I’ve been a season ticket holder at a Premier League Club for over 30 years & a female & I don’t like the female pundits being pushed in the men’s game because they really don’t have the same depth of knowledge as male professional footballers. I cancelled Sky Sports because I don’t want woke politics pushed at me constantly when I just want to enjoy watching the football. The BBC & ITV are just as bad. I don’t watch women’s football because it’s not the same game as the men’s game. Men should be able to object to football being highjacked for political ends without being attacked as misogynists but on the issue rather than personal attacks on appearance. This was a really interesting conversation.
No just football but all areas of life.
I think the double standards in womens sports is astonishing, I get why 6'4" males shouldnt be in womens sports but by the same token, what does a woman player know about the men's game?
@@heatherboardman7004exactly,the Boeing boss who called it out is dead because he voiced his opinion on Boeing's recent employment criteria has affected their build quality causing planes to fall apart mid air.
@@zubeystinzen540BS
Identity politics always was designed to create tension and division.
Yes, it’s basically legalised racism on steroids dressed up as helping minorities..
It’s revenge for Hillary Clinton’s loss in 2016 - all of it.
Bingo. *Everywhere* the Marxist mind virus is implemented it sews division, envy, and hatred.
It wasn’t ‘designed’ to. People believed it was for the good and for the benefit of the weak and truly oppressed. But yes, the design is deeply flawed BECAUSE it IS divisive.
@@walterstockhecker5579 Well it was designed to or rather Oh this is useful for x y and z "division being a main one" . These think tanks we have no access to , the multi generational look into human phycology by institutes such as Tavistock and we can go deep into that globally which are intelligence used from wars in china , Russia , japan during world wars and proxxys . They know human behaviour down to a T and social engineer almost everything. Bit tech use some of this understanding also . Then we got the age of data to A.I , humans will at some point will never know they live a complete fake reality once we give are thinking away to machines. Identity politics is a tiny part of a multitude of social engineering going on.
Wow what a revelation! From how the media portray him I thought Joey was a thick northern thug. He is much more articulate and intelligent than I thought. Just shows that if you’re open minded and give someone a chance despite your preconceptions then you can learn a lot.
Totally unrelated, but this is how I found Tommy Robbinson - media portrayal and real life were so far removed it was incredible
He is definitely articulate but that does not validate his misogynistic opinions
@@philomena3529 which ones do you mean, specifically? I don’t pretend to know a lot of what he has said previously but you have to admit that in this discussion his points are valid?
Valid for who? He is speaking to the shitheads of society.
@@utv5490 whom you, presumably, consider yourself far superior to?
I wrote a romantic comedy, raised $5m, had a major distributor onboard for world wide distribution, then I was told I was not allowed to direct my own movie because I wasn’t a woman, and I had to hire a women to re-write my script, the lead has to be Asian, the love interest African/American, and all the jokes had to be removed so not to offend anyone…. I now can’t afford to live.
Do it. Drop subtle hints. Spike Lee went through exactly the same thing but made a parody of it and it was a success.
@@bennym5244 I cant do anything… I can’t work because I’m male
How is that not theft?? Fucking insane…
@@NCFC-do5dj yes… it did!
@@dmdm5339 truth
What Joey Barton is saying is so important!! More athletes need to fight back for the truth!!
Here in Ireland, we used to have a football analysis panel on tv, made up of four ex pros who played in the 60s / 70s and 80s. The analysis was top notch but the main reason they were so revered is because they were blunt, honest and all good friends away from the studio. It was like tuning in to watch a pub chat after a game....
Now the woke virus has reached us too and every sports broadcast must have a female presenter and at least one female analyst. Preferably with a couple of "safe" yesmen on the panel who wont scare the suits up stairs.
The quality of analysis has nose dived and the whole thing is often stilted, dry and corporate.
Those were the days...I miss that too!
I get it, I do but you have to start somewhere with change. The more women do this stuff the better they will get. You have to start somewhere. I’m pretty sure there are plenty of places where there are all male pundits you can listen to. Start watching snooker or darts.
@@kathrynphillips84terrible argument Kathryn, is nowhere sacred for men these days that woman want to be part of everything we do in life
I was being flippant, probably because I’m not a man so it’s easy to be flippant about stuff that doesn’t effect me. However, my life has been mostly dominated by patriarchy in its many forms so although I think you are right about women in areas were there hasn’t been a role for them before I find it hard to be overly sympathetic. My only hope is that women will learn that a, ‘man’s world,’ whatever that is, will not bring them the freedom they seek.
Listening to Joey took me back to school days in Liverpool. Rapier wit and willingness to take it back with a laugh, accompanied by an obligatory bullsh*t detector, which comes with the territory in Liverpool. What a breath of fresh air to hear someone speak openly.
I think women are perfectly capable of becoming football commentators. But they should only be hired if they’re better than other candidates. A diversity hire for the sake of it shows contempt for sports and ironically sets women’s rights back decades.
I agree. However for commentary, the voice matters. Not even all men are suited. And I’m yet to hear a women who isn’t too shrill and distracting, so far anyway.
@AsphodeliaD Totally. I used to listen to TMS religiously. Now I hardly bother. Ruined.
And ITV's coverage of the Rugby World Cup....Jesus Christ....Claire Thomas' commentary ruined several games until my wife suggested we find a radio station to sync up and listen to that instead.
@@RaveyDaveyshrill is the excuse men make when they can't have any legitimate complaints
A male voice is far more authoritative with gravitas, much better for commentating.
Compare Laurence Olivier with Minnie Mouse....!!
@@jeremylister89one is a human man and the other is a cartoon mouse. Apples to oranges, buddy. Try again.
There was an article in my feed today called "Why Talent Is Underrated" and I about broke a finger clicking on it. Couldn't believe it.
Woman Chelsea fan here, who qualified as a referee many years ago as a teenager. Totally in agreement with Joey until he said men "have to work to provide for their families".
Newsflash Joey, so do women!
That aside, the women's game is far less physical, fast, and comparatively less skillful too. Equal pay and appointment can only come when the ability is equal.
Also the money comes from having a bigger ordinance, and most football fans pay sky and Bt sport to watch the men’s game, and it’s the men’s game selling out football grounds.
If the men stuck around the women wouldn’t have to provide 🤷🏻♂️
Women provide body, milk and soul. Now you want more?
Fellow woman here, also mixed so I'm extremely confused about who they're providing the representation for exactly?!
This DEI sh!te has completely stopped us spending money on subscriptions, husband even cancelled sports channels. It's all garbage!
I shouldn't know more about football than a pundit... some are absolutely clueless
One or two women is OK, but they are on every match on every channel , either presenting , pundit and Co commentator, I dont care about what he said about needing to provide , im coming at it from the side of them being useless, its embarrassing to hear then try and have the banter as a pundit, or talk rubbish as Co commentator, the decision to flood men's football has ruined it
I really enjoyed this conversation, it was nice to meet you Joey Barton. I'm not into football but it was fascinating to hear you speak on the subjects currently affecting the sport and basically everything else in society today.
Great interview Andrew..... Am a scouser so i get where Joey is coming from in our city most people speak there mind and take the piss out of each other so we can give it out but we can also take it and he is spot on about diversity race gender etc its happening in all walks of life when in reality it should be the best qualified for the position regardless of anything else.....
I just had a huge falling out with my brother-in-law because I said I agree with Joey. I was instantly a Nazi of course. The sheer power and physicality of male football is frightening. Most people see football on TV or from deep in the stands. Try being on the touchline and see two male athletes hurtling towards a 50 / 50 ball. I recall Serena Williams saying male tennis is a completely different game due to the sheer power difference and that's a game without physical contact. I trust Serena more than my brother-in-law!
Your brother is a brain washed retard.
Seems like your sister hooked a cracker.
I really enjoyed this discussion because of the uncensored truth of it. I am an old school feminist from the 60s and what we defined as equality, in those days , is different from being and having the same as men. It was a protest against societal acceptance that women were considered inferior and limited in the roles they could play. Then men made the rules and if women knew what was good for them they'd obey. For example, when I was at Teachers College in 1966, women were not allowed to wear trousers and in the classroom you had to wear stockings. No naked legs were permitted. I dont think people realise how oppressed women were by trivial, petty nonsense. I could not get a mortgage on my own simply because I was and still am by the way, female.😂 Did I want to be the same as a man? Hell no! They suffered compulsory conscription for one thing. Old spice, walk shorts and bryl cream were not on my list of wants and desires.
I can't stand the woke culture as its so ridiculously fundamentalist. Equality is not being the same as.
I feel the same as you, but I do worry that some would like to drag us back to the bad old days when women couldn't get mortgages, credit cards or vote.
@@maureensansburn6413 so true
. I could think of a few male politicians who would if they could.
To be fair to mortgage companies, all they want is surety for getting their money back - and the interest, of course. Since most women back then married and left the full-time job market they were unlikely to be able to repay the loan.
Hear Hear absolutely spot on. 🫡
Is society better now that women can do and men do?
Andrew, you absolutely deserve a silver plaque. Your hard work hasn't gone unnoticed 🤗 I'm pround to be a heretic 😊
Your Heretics channel is amazing, Andrew. I always look forward to these more in depth interview.
As (an actual) South African female - I salute your sanity. Our country has been ruined by DIY and BEE policies.
Yeah, get a qualified builder or plumber in before you destroy your house!
Do It Yourself is just a scam to sell expensive tools to muggyboneheads.
your country wasn't real great before that either, at least for the majority.
An articulate man. Different from how he's portrayed in the media.
Yes, he's actually terribly, terribly bright and speaks delightfully sotto voce even when he's threatening Eni Aluko's family or trivialising the racist murder by his brother with an ice-axe as, 'a scrap'.
A genuinely lovely man who you'd definitely want your daughter to start dating no doubt.
Joey is correct, simple, everyone else needs to grow up and face reality
As someone without an exact ideological home, I appreciate your work and your attitude so much, Andrew. I listen religiously and suggest it to people all the time. Your affability and interviewing skills make you a great host & the guests you pick are so interesting. Keep up the good work.
Ah thanks so much Violet I love that!!
You get that you've just replied to a bot, right?
Ah - It does seem that way, having now clicked on the profile. But then - where does the $4.99 come from? Weird.@@yancowles
You don't care where the money comes from. Look at the sham of a man you are interviewing.
@@andrewgoldheretics Dunno, maybe joey barton masquerades as a sexy female benefactor when he's not making veiled threats to Eni Aluko's family or trivialising his brothers racist ice-axe murder of Anthony Walker.
Thank you back. Please cover trans widows. I am a subscriber and a trans widow since my ex husband's one appointment diagnosis in July of 1993. Documented by PhD psychologist's sworn affidavit in our divorce, Kings County, NY, 1997. He's been saying he's the mother of the two sons I birthed in 1988 and 1991. They do that. "unqualified" --thanks Joey
I think its an interesting point , I've always wondered how parents feel , you have essentially lost a son who has transitioned, the idea you gave birth to a boy , then 20 years later they have no son and find themselves with a Daughter , surely there must be some grief for losing a Son ???
@@steve10 It was her husband that transitioned not her son.
They feel terrible if they live so long as to witness the bone demineralization, liver and kidney failure as well as incontinence from the surgeries, which are common risks of this medicalization of a psychiatric illness. @@steve10
I'm sorry this happened to you, and your children.
I have been put in a very similar situation myself. And there are many, many more of us, as this evil insanity rolls on.
Lord have mercy!
@@steve10My cousin, male, transed. One of 3 boys. My Aunt coped by saying She now has the daughter she always wanted.
Fair play though, he carried on going to Upton Park during the process of transitioning, shit hair, shit make up, shit boobs. Got loadsa stick from Hammers fans who ain't the most delicate of Luvlies. Gotta give respect for that. Tough road to walk I would imagine. His makeup skills have improved but he's still 6'1 broad shouldered. COYI. Made of Steel that bird is. 💪
Al that nominating Cabbage patch kid for an award has done has proved Joey was 100% right
Don’t tell anyone but I was standing in the layby on A48 just outside Newnham (England) early in the morning with my thumb out, hoping for a lift south. I had a long journey ahead of me to a village in Sussex.
After only a few minutes a van pulled in and after thanking him I jumped into the passenger seat.
Then after an embarrassingly short conversation I was forced to understand that this chap was a local farmer and had pulled into that layby to feed his sheep and wasn’t offering me a lift anywhere!!!
Just suppose for a moment there is a World Championship chess tournament and former World champion Gary Kasparov has been invited in to comment on it for TV, next to a female black woman who's actual level of chess is middle school level and so poor he could beat her in less than 4 moves, repeatedly, over and over! And yet she has been brought in to add expertise. She is getting paid as much as he is. How would you feel? That's the gap, the gulf between Professional Men's football and the Womens game. Somewhat embarrassing isn't it!
"... he could beat her in less than 4 moves, repeatedly, over and over" Since you obviously don't play chess, why don't you use something else for your analogy?
@@DieFlabbergast I just want to say my heart goes out to you! To go through life with such a deeply disfiguring facial defect must be awful. You were obviously born sneering as well as being supremely smug and unpleasant. But just for the record Fool's Mate is two moves. So please don't embarrass yourself even more. Go quietly.
@@DieFlabbergasttic tac toe 😂
Would racists get really excited about it??
@@DieFlabbergast
At the time I'm writing this, 28 people have thought that 'beating somebody in 4 moves in chess' is a good enough analogy that they have upvoted it. Andrew Gold appears to have found his demographic. I only feel bad that the UA-cam algorithm seems to think I'm part of that demographic...
I remember applying to be a police MAN and I was sent a letter back saying the force are doing "Positive Discrimination" basicaly "You're white, you're male, You're straight, We can't take you on" I am in total agreement we need equality of chance in the workplace, but is being openly predudice to "right the wrongs" because I now don't fit the quota actually any better?
That's Racist and disgusting.
No it certainly isn’t.
My best friend is a cop (we’re in our 50’s now) and she’s quite (very, actually😂) tall, and strong. For a woman. Being physically strong as a woman can’t compare with the physical strength of men. That said, many women has other skills or perhaps advantages, if you will, that can be assets in the police force.
However hiring/accepting to the academy based on quotas is not only a bad idea but a dangerous one. At least that’s what I think.
Being rejected the way you were, for that reason, is ridiculous.
What a load of pap
@@utv5490 You agree with discrimination?
@@STSTOf course. I would have a stand up decent person for example over a racist shithead.
I wish they would replace Gary Lineker with a woman. Or even a potato come to think of it.
A white potato I bet. 😂😂
Spud walker
or a bag of crisps
I agree with what he's saying but I do hope he speaks on men invading women's spots.
They're big girls, they can speak up for themselves.
@disteveful6368 true,, I forget this sometimes . Thanks for the reminder....😄
@@disteveful6368women get cancelled, lose their jobs & abuse for saying this..
@@disteveful6368 I agree with you. This is a fight women need to have. It is their rights being taken away.
Max respect to Joey (and Andrew) for his courage, intelligence and honesty 👏
Just want to say that I'm really enjoying your new heretics podcast. I used to watch your other channel, and (for me, at least), it was a bit hit or miss.
This is all hits. Well done.
Just to point out Andrew, the reason girls were not playing football is because we were never offered it in lessons, never allowed in teams, never encouraged and bullied if we showed an interest.
No. That may be a part of it, but it's no secret that boys/men are more interested in sports than girls/women.
Men and Women are different, not entirely, but in important ways, and that's ok. In fact it's necessary.
That's not true at all, Our school tried to make a girls team and only 3 ever turned up.
Girls are not boys and that's just fine.
Absolutely. It was only netball or rounders or hockey.
@@Ladyjojo695 my wife, mum and daughters would much rather watch netball. Netball Superleague is intending to go professional next year. I'm not sure what that means or if it's a good idea, but netball is definitely thriving.
Tbf I bet they wasn’t enough of you who wanted too.
Wow... Awesome conversation 🎉 bravo gents and thank you both 🙏🏻🙏🏻
I agree with his opinion of Vine. A few years ago he did a very dodgy segment on his radio show about a young boy who did a drag show not being allowed to present his sexually provocative act at his school end of year show. Vine was outraged and bought one of the drag race stars to encourage him and give him gifts of makeup and clothes. The lad was 12! How was this not grooming? I've never listened to him since.
I am not remotely interested in football, but this was another fascinating episode. An intelligent, articulate, humble person, nothing like the man he is portrayed to be in the press.
If women went to women's games weekly, bought the season tickets, shirts, calendars and subcribed to sports channels in the same numbers that men do for the men's game, guess what? Women's footy would be huge and have billions sloshing about for development and promotion. But they don't. Most of them support it purely theoretically. The next time someone tells you "they should get the same attention as the men" ask them to name 5 players that aren't in the England national team....
Big ups Joey and Andrew. Great work 👍
As always, great interview Andrew.
Identity politics led to the biggest atrocities in human history.
That's a great looking studio. Great pod, thanks!
Interesting points until the whole ‘women not having the vote is a valid opinion thing’. Sometimes it’s OK to say that an opinion is awful.
You can think that opinion is awful, but it's still a valid opinion for someone else to hold. They're just opinions to be discussed.
@@apebass2215’Valid’ (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
If you position yourself as a rational, liberal person then it’s kind of important to reject an unsound argument, e.g. one that suggests bringing half of humanity under authoritarian rule on the basis of their gonads. That doesn’t mean you’re stopping anyone else from thinking that. I reject Islamism and flat-earthers’ arguments too. You can discuss them all you like but he was talking like this person had as good a point as anyone. Some ideas are shit and it’s OK to say so.
Tell that to Canada where dictator Trudeau kept being voted in by women on his looks..
@@MissUltimaThule well I'm not a liberal and whilst I don't agree that women should lose the vote there are rational arguments for that. Many women now, including young women, are really not happy with the world feminists created. Many women don't want to vote. They want a husband, a house and a family and they don't want to work. My daughter is 14 and she said that to me.
@@MissUltimaThule The problem is - who decides what is "reasonable"? Before women got the vote, many people considered that giving women the vote was ridiculous. It was only by expressing their "awful" views and persuading people that the campaigners for women's emancipation were successful.
'One conversation at as time'...
what a great name for a channel!!!
Getting really close to that 100k !! Well deserved!!
I love Joey Barton, legend of a player and speaker of common sense
Love this channel. So glad for your success!
GO ON JOEY! I would pay good money to see him running rings round the women’s team wearing a pink wig! This needs to be done, super trolling to get his point across.😆
One improvement I'd like to see for this channel is - please ask your guests for an intro at the start, who are they, what is their background. Cheers
I think he's generally correct in pointing out real problems. I think he's entitled to his opinion without being harassed. I also think that commentators in the entertainment industry should be selected according to what their consumers want; if consumers want a woman from the bus stop to comment on a game, that's fine. Football is an entertainment industry that rationally should serve the demands of it's consumers as best it can.
Fantastic discussion
100% agree with Joey. Womens football is not as good as mens, period. They shouldn't be taking the punters jobs. I'm a woman I watch mens football because women's football isn't as good, it's boring in comparison. Keep it up Joey I'm with you 👏👏🇬🇧
If a woman's the best one for the job, she should get it. If the man's better, he should. It should be on meritocracy, not sex, and not race. We get female commentators on men's tennis and vice versa.
Loved this interview. So refreshing to hear what most of us think and feel said outloud.
That was an enjoyable conversation Andrew; thank you.
(Don't) Have a drink each time Joey touches his glasses.
I trieed ett for tan mintues.
excuse me, I've got tt go to the tiolet ?
@@haydenwalton2766😅😅😅😅
I agree.. I hate hearing men commentators in netball etc.. I guess it’s us getting men back for dressing up as woman & taking over female sports 🥴
Gotta love Joey. It's enormously refreshing to hear an plain-speaking non-woke guy stating the obvious, & defying our woke version of the 1960's Maoist Cultural Revolutionary student mobs.
I'm a woman and I don't agree with women commenting mens football, it's virtue signalling
Men comment on women sports all the time (if we're lucky enough women's sports get air time at all), so I don't understand why. In Italy some women do the job perfectly and run the sport news as well
i think the best person for the job should be hired - it seems so sensible to hire that way...
I've no idea about the details of the Jeremy Vine thing, but quick point of order: *No one* pays road tax - there's no such thing. Every (smug, perhaps) cyclist knows this fact - but all too many non-cycling drivers don't have a clue and make the same mistake that Joey does here.
Semantics. Do You tax your car? That is road tax.
I like a lot of what Joey says but he's missing a fundamental point. The 'elite' male ex players who can't get jobs in the media, don't need jobs in the media. If you have just retired in the last 5 years and were playing in the Premier League, and you need media money, something has gone badly wrong with your financial decisions. The ladies getting the jobs have come from 30-40k a year, playing contracts. The men from 100k a week playing contracts. I don't disagree that the best qualified should be talking, but I also see the other side of coin.
Joey had very valid points to make. His arguments hold weight BUT he started the childish name calling and the detracted from what he had to say and allowed the mainstream media to attack him and invalidate the genuine points he had to make.
This.
Joey is a revelation to listen to. The direct opposite to how he is portrayed in the mainstream media. He’s welcome in my house any day.
He says men that have played the sport should be the ones in pundit positions because they know more. Then he proceeds to say how Postecoglou is a chameleon and spurs is having a normal spursy season..... Im glad he isnt one of the "experts" -__-
Quite a difference from being a top manager to being pundit
Very good interview.
100K subscribers soon, and totally deserved! Well done, Andrew! Keep doing you! :)
The tickets only cost tenner as well as being empty
WSL is a fad. People will get bored with it.
Bandwagon jumpers springs to mind. And bandwagon jumpers will jump on to another bandwagon that rolls along eventually.
Andrew, I've enjoyed your podcast. But in this episode you haven't pushed the guest at all. I understand you're a football fan, but that's not very professional. Some of the things this man said are clearly misogynistic--like women not being able to vote is a valid opinion?? Also the guest had domestic violence charges against him--why there was no question about that? Similarly some of his assaults in his youth may have been racially motivated, but there were no follow up questions on that. I don't agree with a lot of contemporary identity politics, but being anti-'woke' is different from potentially being racist and misogynistic, which the guest may well be. Finally, many have commented that men have occupied media space/broadcast positions in a lot of women's sports, even in sports (such as rhythmic gymnastics) which men don't even practice. However, this point has never been brought up.
Why does he need to ?
@@ashleywebb2736 because he claims to not shy away from sensitive topics and asking hard questions. This only works if he applies this standard to all guests.
He never pushes his guests
Snowflake mentality
He's a small hat wearer, they're known for deliberately playing both sides
I’m 6’2” and female. Did football (defence - I like kicking people up in the air) and weightlifting. I used to be nervous playing against other women because I was aware how much bigger than them I was (and usually stronger). I occasionally tried playing in men’s teams, against other men. It was a fkn joke. I literally had no hope. It’s simple physical reality - women are not as strong or as fast as men. It annoyed the hell out of me, but nothing I did could ever change that. No point lying about it. Reality is what it is.
Blokes can wear whatever they want, but they don’t belong in women’s spaces - and absolutely not in women’s sports. It not even that it’s not fair, it’s not even *safe*.
And he is bang on the nose about lower league football needing more exposure and support. They’re the fundamentals, the basics of football in this country, they develop young talent and give local communities identity and a place to congregate. Lower league football is already threatened by the cash at the top. Big clubs and Sky tv will do whatever it takes for profit, even if it means playing league games in America and half the football league going out of business. They’re the biggest threat to football in this country.
When people realized they could make a good living in academics, politics and media, pitting groups against one another, they embraced intersectional philosophy, identity politics and DEI.
A person should be appointed to a job based on merit and merit alone - not any other political trend. Not race, not gender, not any sort of inclination. That is just basic common sense.
Your channel is amazing.I am so pleased I discovered it. Keep up the good work!
ANDREW , you are an amazing journalist and human being.
Great pod man
Well said, and good luck with J V
Just found this channel, love it already, binge watching all day now
Don’t back away from men invading women’s spaces either then Joey
First time listening to Joey Barton and aside from the accent - what a top lad.
Andrew I think your great. The discussion highlighted some really good issues which need to be discussed, but it became very uncomfortable at times.
Its not right to call people names in public. 'Looking like a cabbage patch doll' is demeaning and nasty. Hopefully a woman on TV would not disrespect you in front of thousands and call you a feminine string bean. (I'm sorry I don't mean it, its just an example of mean and belittling speech). Most of the time the victim of the insult can't answer back.
I'm not preaching DEI, I'm talking about respecting each other. Female (girls) were discouraged to play football and if they reached a level of skill similar to boys at club level, they wouldn't accept them and they were banned. So that's why the business side of female game and the number and depth of players can't be compared to the men's team. Of course, as people, until recently, have argued that with all sports there's is a difference due to anatomy and physiology of the sexes. Again when I was listening to the discussion there was a level of disrespect running through the conversation.
I'm an avid watcher, so keep up with inviting the different guest. I enjoy your technique and style of interviewing too.
This post👍
I’m a female UA-camr and at times this felt like bashing women. Folks forget how late we started in most professions, especially football.
I interviewed the legendary manager of Arsenal’s quadruple winning team and these women were part-timers. Some worked in the box office for the club. This wasn’t so long ago either. These women are trailblazers who helped evolve the game. Players from this squad have earned the opportunities presented to them. Why are some men afraid of female progress? A lot of the women commentating have played at the highest level and won more than Joey.
Also there are many male managers in the women’s game? Nobody is complaining about that.
And Joey’s tweets have been abusive and bullying. Nothing funny about it and it’s ridiculous to suggest it’s good publicity for them.
Ah yes, lovely little joey, a nice man who described the racist murder committed by his brother, with an ice axe, as, a 'scrap' and who also said he knows where Eni Aluko's family live.
What a top fella, it's important we hear his views and really get to understand his nuanced perspective. Maybe he'll even explain nietzsche to us.
Interesting discussion. In this - I won’t use ‘woman’ it’s lost its meaning. Im a 66 yr old American feminist per the original definition - provide opportunity for females to play, participate, contribute. In economics there is a concept called “Infant Industry”. When a developing country wants to replace importing a product by making their own they will accept the cost and problems of shielding new industries until they can flourish. Countries like the U.S. complain about the unfairness and inefficiency of this protectionist practice. I consider much of female sport to be an infant industry. It requires accepting some cost, inefficiency and different performance criterion. In my youth I was a devoted College Basketball fan - until the 3-point shot was implemented. It radically changed the game - I no longer watch, nor care much, because I consider the game boring. Are you guys like me - the girls game is different? Have you given it a chance; have you looked for the nuance? I did - the 3-point shot killed the inside game and it instilled a selfish ‘I’m keeping the ball so I can get the 3 from way out in Kansas’ team play be damned attitude. Yuck. A TV audience must be built - forget “their own channel” idea. Nor should TV broadcast equal numbers of female and male games. Only the best matchups should be on TV, paired with a good male matchup, and, importantly, there should be a dynamic, knowledgeable female and male analysis-pairing discussing both games. Teach the viewers how to enjoy both games. Building on opportunity takes time. All that said, the female ‘commenter’ that Barton said did not know players names - he’s correct, she should not have been put in that situation. She was stupid to take it. She was set up to look bad. I know from experience that any female taking a spot from a male has to perform near perfection. She should have studied the rosters of both teams, watched past games to know specialties, know players’ histories and past injuries. Otherwise, just don’t show up. She confirmed male expectations for ignorance and expecting unwarranted equal treatment. In the end, if certain female sports can’t develop a market, too bad. But, I have felt strongly for my 60+ years of life - cut the crap, drop the attitude and just give us a chance. Now, don’t even get me started on 6’4” post-pubescent males thinking he should be allowed to compete in “Women’s Swimming” or any other Female Sport- a ‘Trans Woman’ is not Female. End of comment. Thanks for discussion and my opportunity to throw in.
The more I listen to joey Barton,the more I believe he gets scapegoated for speaking facts.
Modern day Robin Hood!
Keep churning facts joey 😂😂
having read/heard about joey barton second hand - i cant believe how articulate and intelligently made his points actually are. The exaggeration from our media is ridiculous, hes just a normal bloke and what hes saying isnt particularly out there or shocking
Commenting for the algorithm. I love being a little late to the live stream and listening x2 speed… when I catch up you guys sound like you've had strokes out of nowhere.
good interview
Men in general respect meritocracy, whereas women value egality and fair share above all.
I don't get the whole Oh the best womens team lost to a bunch of good 15 year old players when you start from the position that the womens game is alot slower and the physical capabilities are so different. The reason they play the boys is because they know themselves that those teams are better and they want the challenge so they can get better themselves. There is no shame in it, its a sensible way for them to improve. They know that against a mens team they wouild likely just get hurt so you don't see that and rightfully so.
It tells you the standard and of the women’s game….low.
That's ok, nobody understands everything. You'll be fine.
He talks about having to have played at the top level then sights Des Lynham who commentated for over 40 years without ever having played! Crying for Joey as a man having to feed his family. 😢
You means cites? He mentioned that sometimes someone can just have decades of experience watching it and then used Des as an example of that. And Des was an anchor, not a pundit. And he mentioned Gabby Logan is a good anchor and example of that same skillset. So I see no unfairness in that.
He makes a clear distinction between commentators who tend not to have a football background and pundits who are ex-footballers. Don't comment if you didn't listen to what he said.
Another good conversation, enjoying the heretics channel.
I don't think I'll be taking any lessons from a man sentenced to six months' imprisonment for common assault and affray, not mention the allegations he's faced of assaulting his wife and other women.
I ain't bothered what he has done , he's done his time ,,, he speaks the truth so I'll listen , if he was saying we should go out and stub a cigar out in someone's eye like he did then I would say he is an utter tw@ ,, he speaks the truth , to deny it just because he was a thug is just daft
You can listen to, and agree with, what a person says and still stand against what they do. There are all these wonderful and varied shades of grey in the world, there doesn't have to be a black and white "he's done bad things so everything he says is bad"... That's a fairly immature way to think.
@@h.r.c.2829 I didn't say that 'everything he says is bad'. I'm simply pointing out the suspect character and motivations behind what he says.
Exactly. He is on another planet
@@richardoldfield6714 I dont think he is saying this to commit a crime
When the fans stop watching and showing up things will change. It’s about money. That’s how broadcasting works in America.
I'm with Leo Kearse on women's football. It is absurd, especially when they are rude to one another.
Leo Kearse, I saw him do a show, had chicken in a basket, 5 games of bingo for a fiver. He was shit though.
Will Andrew robustly challenge the half truths and flawed logic of many of Barton's opinions?...
Why don't you? Now
Nooooooope
No thanks in wimpy voice...try it dominica
Such as...?
Get outside Dominica
100% men and women are different in every single wayvaccept needing food, warmth and shelter. Please can this be celebrated again x This continual division is poisoning and stopping men being men and women being women x
My son 11, years old, could make that logical assumption too with no prior education.
It is Not inclusive to let men beat the sht out of a woman in womens sport.
Joey Barton is 💯 right. And before I get all the woke haters, I run girls and ladies teams and I'm very proud of all the females I have coached and managed and the levels they have aspired too.
The difference between a male and female football team, particularly in the early teen years and beyond, when both male and female bodies and genetics change the most, its huge. I would happily play boys teams up to U12s but their after the physicality, strength and speed in boys just took over.
We have no balance whatsoever on MSM and if you have played at the highest level and you are a white male (woke Lineker apart) you have no chance...
Never heard of this guest, however I still found this topic and conversation very interesting and insightful. Thank you Andrew for another brilliant episode of Heretics ❤️👍🏼