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If someone is gay, it doesn’t require anything of me. If someone is trans, they frequently require something of me. I resent the requirement that I have to change pronouns or pretend that I don’t know what I know. I’m fine with someone being trans, but don’t require work from me. I’m tired.
In some ways, trans and gay are each others opposites. Being gay is all about accepting who you are, what you like/want in a sex and/or life partner, and being fine with it. Being trans is all about NOT accepting who you are, and doing horrible things to your body to try to "fix" yourself. It's not a coincidence that some of the parents of "trans kids" are really uncomfortable with homosexuality.
Same sentiment over here. I’ve been exhausted for a while. I want no parts. If a man doesn’t like being a man that’s none of my problem. It’s funny how all the demands are being directed at women. The demands to give up female only spaces, sports & other female allocated resources(UN UK woman ambassador is a male). Tired indeed.
I know trans people since maybe twenty years or more. The office has a trans client for years. Seldom problems with these people. The last few years, something has changed. One thing that we MUST think in terms of gender identity. In reality, there are two theories. We have to be convinced to think like how the gender identity people want. In my opinion, people are more than social constructs. I reject this theory. There are some elements in it that we are strongly influenced by cultural and local influences. That's why you should be able to determine your own gender, because you feel it. I think that's all nonsense.
@robinredon It’s worse than just requiring something. Trans activist seek to deprive women of their same-sex spaces and even their language. There is also the danger to children who are mentally vulnerable and who may also be questioning their sexuality. Trans activists are happy to persuade these vulnerable kids that they’re in the ‘wrong body’ and to coerce them onto a pathway of medicalisation and surgery that leaves them sterile. That’s more than an inconvenience.
It`s not even about fairness. We segregate the sexes in sport because we know life isn`t fair. A boxing match between a man and a woman would have a very predictable end result and one of them may end up embarrased, the other might not make it to tomorrow
I'm under the impression that the men's division of most sports is in effect an open division, in other words, that "trans men", i.e., women are welcome. There may be exceptions such as boxing, where the legal authority does not allow it for safety reasons.
Having ideas and banning any you don't like is a different issue. A man claiming he is a woman and forcing himself into women's spaces and claiming hate crime if another person does not go along with his proclamations, is not "having an idea" - it is imposing a made-up fantasy on to reality.
@@sophietemple2728 doesn't it seem like this has gone on long enough now? Biologists and health boards agree - trans identities are real. There is physical evidence they have brain structures that indicate their brain indeed does not match their body. Why are we still dragging this out, its so stupid. The planet is in real trouble now, it just seems like a big distraction
@@sophietemple2728only this is the new reality. India Willoughby insists that he is a woman and can therefore access women’s spaces. Clearly he still has some very negative male behaviours and is misogynistic. He is also determined to criminalise anyone who doesn’t accept his delusions.
If someone has a feeling of being the opposite sex, how can they feel what they have never been. They have no idea what their opposite sex feels! It's impossible, words are an imperfect medium of innate feelings.
Trans people can never feel what the opposite sex is like. Trans people want to BECOME how they SEE what the opposite sex looks like. No they can’t feel it just see it.
Post mortem examinations of trans women consistently show sexual dimorphism in related neurotransmitters. There is a 'male brain' and a 'female brain'. Some people do have a brain that doesn't match the rest of their body. You've heard of intersex people right? People can be born with ovotestis. If this is possible, is it really so hard to believe our brains, hormones or chromosomes can also end up in an unusual configuration. There's a guy called Forrest Valkai who can explain this all extremely well, I don't think he's quite as qualified as some other biologists I listen to but he's extremely well spoken on this stuff
That’s always been my argument! You can’t say you feel like a woman if you don’t know what being a woman feels like. You can say you’re not happy in your body, or you wish you were a woman, but you cannot say you are a woman or you feel like one.
Scientifically phobia just means going away from something and philia means you go toward it. Non-polar oily molecules are said to be hydrophobic but that doesn't mean they're terrified of water.
@@Aliandrin « n. 1. A persistent, abnormal, or irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid the feared stimulus. » -Nelson Canadian Dictionary of the English Language, 1996
@@AliandrinI mean, if you want to compare human rationality with oil and water, that could open up some interesting debates that I think would remind me a lot of what I hear from my super fundamentalist parents.
@@sisuriffs Yeah, we obviously need to use the psychological definition of "phobia", not one from chemistry, and that does involve the irrationality of the fear or aversion. For me, the trans phenomenon is terrifying, for perfectly rational reasons (so not a phobia). ...But that's one of the least abused words in gender ideology. I'm thinking "diversity", "equity", "inclusion", "care", "medical treatment"...
I’m sorry but I don’t see how wanting to live in reality and not in someone’s fantasy world can be seen as radical. If a man wants to wear makeup, heels and a dress I don’t care, I have a problem when he/society pretends that that makes him a woman. This is not opinions of gender critical feminists only , it’s very common opinions among all sorts of people.
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nnI don't think they were saying this idea is good because it's common just that this idea is not limited to "gender critical" ppl and is widespread
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn I might be wrong because I'm not the original poster. I think they're pointing out that a particular view is just commonplace. This is because ppl are accused of being gender critical/transphobic for holding pretty mundane views and simultaneously mundane views are considered to be extreme and only held by far right Christian etc. And that you should educate yourself by trans activists/allies. It's used to attack and villify ppl into thinking they must change their views based on the fallacy of who else holds said view. It's a common tactic for example with J K Rowling of guilt by adjacency. It is not "gender critical" to say being a woman is not just wearing a dress and make up. The opposite view would be considered sexist by the vast majority of ppl. Unless you want to make the argument that most ppl are gender critical but this terf/gender critical claim is used by trans ideologues to paint ppl as extremists while espousing far more extreme views of their own.
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn There are all kinds of claims of what makes you transgender. One of the most prevalent is simply saying you are. Arguably a lower barrier to entry. There are those who believe gender is a performance and that they should be treated a certain way based on how they "present". I've seen ppl say they are trans because they like to dress "cute". Andrea Long Chu has utterly horrifying ideas of what makes him a woman. A very famous trans man bases her identity on attraction to women. There are all kinds of trans ppl simply demanding to be recognized as a woman, a man or something else and imposing their own gender beliefs on others. You can find literally thousands of videos of trans ppl screaming at members of the public for recognizing their sex and they often say, look at me, how can you think I'm a x. I'm often told ppl aren't doing things or saying things I've seen. I get this with claims no one is claiming sex isn't binary too. Anyway the point was that ppl who say, you aren't a woman just because you where a dress, are often berated online as terfs/gender critical/transphobes for a view that you appear to hold too. Which makes it odd why you said it was a fallacy because you were then arguing against a view you hold?
@@joce11To be fair, I think the host feigns naivety, sometimes. It's a good tactic to get the interviewee to elaborate. He seems relatively well-read, so I doubt he didn't know the difference.
Oh dear. Andrew has cancelled most of our conversation. There was a largish group of people discussing some points. We had some differing and some overlapping opinions. Nobody was being rude. It was a fine discussion. Now all of the time we all had spent on the topics has disappeared into the ether. We'll never get that time back. Not good. Please reconsider, Andrew. Don't be a part of the cancel culture.
It's all manufactured. Nadia won Big Brother 20 years ago, everyone knew she was trans, no one gave a shit. Look at the state of the world, the UK is absolutely ruined. Put the spotlight on a small, misunderstood community instead; transgenders, boat people, "hate marches". It's called scapegoating.
The suffix is classic Orwellian gaslighting, implying that someone who simply dislikes something is at least somewhat mentally ill: a "phobia" is popularly understood to be an irrational fear. It's a transparent way of shutting down debate. As we know, the rallying cry of the trans mob is "No debate!"
The pronoun thing strikes me like a litmus test and I don't like it. I have been on a job search and every interview starts with pronouns and it really bothers me. I feel like if I give mine it says one thing, if I skip it, it says something else and anything you say can and will be used to pry into your private views. I don't like feeling like my politics are being probed when I am trying to get a job and those private views will not change how I do the job.
You could tell them you have an old-skool trans friend who finds being asked to give her pronouns offensive after putting a lot of effort into her transition to present and live as a woman, so you're avoiding the pronoun thing. That might shut them up, and gives you a pass they can't object to. Just a suggestion.
I'm on the side of J. K. Rowling, I don't care if people call India 'she'. I don't know how to categorize Transphobia anymore. In the past, when I was young, there was a lot of discrimination of gays and lesbians, (I have had good neighbors from the LBH group from my early childhood). Anyway, they've all lost their minds. I rely more on the ordinary people with common sense.
In addition, it makes it impossible to say “she” can’t use women’s bathrooms, compete in women’s sports, or be put in a women’s prison. The activists know what they’re doing. We need to get wise to it too.
Interesting that anyone still thinks Socialism qualifies as a component of the Classical Liberal political spectrum. Authoritarian totalitarian political systems cannot be a component of the left or the right of the liberal discourse. They are illiberal, not liberal, outside of liberalism. All varieties of socialism (Marxism, Nazism, Fascism and Critical Social Justice) are neither left or right wing, they are not 'far' right or left in the liberal discourse. Argument and debate with the New Hegelian Gnostic cults is pointless. They already "know" the answers to any contested point - because they are a religious cult. If you haven't already watched it, have a look at TIK History's "Public Vs Private" video for a fulsome, yet entertaining description of what I mean. ua-cam.com/video/ksAqr4lLA_Y/v-deo.htmlsi=VFJc-57U_EFH-CKN
Radicals on both sides of the political spectrum have the strange tendency of becoming indistinguishable from each other; so your confusion is understandable. No one really understands what a liberal is anymore. Even many true liberals don't. Here are some clues: True liberalism progresses towards true liberty. True conservatism constrains progress towards true liberty.
If you don't want to dogpile, debunk it. I think that's the main difference. A dogpile would be a thousand "you're stupid" while a debunk would be a thousand "here's why you're wrong" Conflating the two approach doesn't help anyone.
Thanks for the mostly clear subtitles, FYI deafness and hearing impairments are the number one disability worldwide, so it’s really vital if you want to be accessible to as many people as.
I would love to hear Helen Plukroses views on autogynephiles working in schools, does she agree that fetish in this instance should not be tolerated ? Is this why she thinks Kelllie-Jay is a militant? Because KJK is clear about who these men should not have access to.
@@MB90-c5kNeither do I. The term 'gender' has no place outside a book of grammar. Biological entities do not have a gender. They have a sex: female or male. This is *determined* at fertilisation and cannot be changed. (We know all about chromosomal aberrations and genetically caused metabolic disorders of hormones. These are very rare and cannot be cited as proof of non-binary sex.)
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nnWhat do you think of the thousands of people who say they're autogynephiles? Would you acknowledge that there are men who dress up as women for sexual kicks? Even if we just term them transvestites for example? And in that case would you say that we should stop such men entering schools dressed in that way? I've tried to find another position but I simply can't see a way past that if you have something that turns you on then you shouldn't actively engage in that around children.
@lucywood1443 There is nuance and then there is what Helen is doing.You can't have both of your sides of your bread buttered. You can't recognize a man as a formal legal woman for one issue and then not another... If you identify a man as a legal woman on a Birth Certificate license etc.Then what stops that person from entering women'spaces when they are legally recognized as a woman?
Pluckrose often sounds like she's using trans identified *men* (as in I've never heard her talk about TIFs) & their "rights" to put other women in their place. She's often seemed scathing about women's concerns - and been both patronising & rude about at least a couple of women's rights campaigners. I remember her being dismayed by the response to a comment she made on Twitter (in 2020) about TIMs being more "oppressed" than women. Somebody has to think of the meninfrocks....
I will use pro nouns in the same way that Helen does. It’s a personal choice but I agree that there should be situations when it is made clear such as crime reporting etc. I use the term trans women and not women. I don’t think we should police other people’s language though.
It's not offensive to all women. Some may not like it. Others might accept it or not. Others don't even care. To be offended by it is pretty thick. I don't give a flying f* if a trans man wants to be that. I'm not offended by that. What do I care? I have my own life to worry about. I'm not really for trans people using single-sex toilets of the opposite gender to their own, but I actually have nothing against unisex toilets. It doesn't bother me. As far as competing in sports, well that is a bit stupid and unfair. I don't care much about sports, though. I suppose the way to sort that out would be to have all sports mixed. That would be very fair, but we know how that would end up, don't we. You'd probably be offended by it.
@@dandare1001it is offensive because it reduces women to a bunch of stereotypes. You as an individual may care more or less but it's still offensive towards women as a s ex class.
@@dandare1001 "I'm not offended by it and wouldnt be if the sexes were reversed, therefor anyone who is offended is thick" That is what you sound like. Telling other people that if you arent bothered, they shouldnt be either. YOU don't speak for anyone but you, and none of us need to live up to your pathetic standards. As a woman, I agree with the other commenters, and I dont think its speaking for all of us to state the fact that it is offensive to act as though a costume makes you female.
@@dandare1001 1- that's not what 'stereotyping' means and 2- you're still thinking in an egotistical way. I'm not speaking for all of us, I'm talking from a dignity and human rights perspective, not my personal or emotional one.
Men can wear whatever they want, but the trouble is that they expect to be called women if they wear dresses and also expect access to women's only spaces. That point should've been addressed.
It was addressed repeatedly. She said yes to wearing what they want, that it's up to you whether to call them men or women, and no to women-only spaces.
@@ryanclovis5I don't know about you, but as a man (who was born male), if I'm desperately in need of a bathroom and the men's isn't available, I'm using the women's, because the alternative is to drop my trousers and take a shit on the floor. And that's not very widely accepted either, and there's usually no toilet paper. :P
@@damianjblack What a stupid respond onset.. In all my life I've never felt the need to use the men's bathroom.. 🙄 No decent man would ever use the ladies... And if there's a ladies, there will also be a gents.. Sanity needs to return to society ffs.. 🙄
@@damianjblack The general rule is different from emergencies. But presumably you'd be humble and apologetic about it and explain your predicament to any ladies you met in there, because you're not deluded about what sex you are.
I used to watch karlyn boryshenko quite often. One time I commented on a video that I didn't agree with her position that prostitution should be legalized because it harms women. She replied that she would not tolerate such views. I thought that was strange because she always held up free speech as a core value, so I said that I thought we should be able to disagree and not demand ideological purity of each other but she then replied that basically she thought I was an idiot. So I unsubscribed and blocked her, I couldn't believe she would react that way given her professed values and nevermind basic human decency. Now I can see why she was nominated for a grifty award 😬 talk about audience capture...
it seems that more and more people require others to agree with them 100% which is unrealistic and frightening. I have two friends with whom I disagree 180° on two hot topics, and I like them anyway. We agree enough on so many other things. But I admit that with one of them, I carefully avoid certain subjects because she gets aggressive over them. And yet she believes she is open-minded.
Dude I saw her on some podcast a year or so ago and I liked her so I checked out her own podcast/videos and…. Well she’s not who I thought she was. She was way too far left for me and I’m on the left.
Karilyn is a well known narcissistic bully. She has a history of going after individuals in a very unhinged way, lying about them, playing victim, doing long hysterical videos screaming about what can only be described as her own paranoid delusions about perceived persecutions. She's a very troubled person. Beware!
Yeah I caught that one: if it was all about the label transwoman I wouldn't have an issue but that label has been ditched the minute a man states: I feel like a woman
"trans women are women" , "biological females are CIS" , these snakes are proclaiming themselves as women and giving biological women a different name... WTAF?!
Transwoman, I don't like it, personally prefer MtF, but I'd go with that. Trans woman, no, the adjective "trans" can get dropped, and them the lie (woman) begins. Healthy ethical people don't need to lie about themselves.
It is very conservative. A male that’s into Barbie’s and dresses isn’t proving that males can also be into those things…he must just be a female trapped in a male body! Because that makes much more sense 🤦🏻♀️
No the conservative position is and has always been that the person in question should not give into his desires for dresses and Barbies because hes a man and that's not manly behaviour. The mistake you're making, as is this women in the video is positioning anything that isn't liberal as conservative. But that's a mistake and completely misunderstands the fact that left wing is not automatically the same as Liberal. In fact often left wing ideas are completely anti liberal, see Communism for instance which by definition is extremely authoritarian and also left wing. So in summation what we have here is a hard line authoritarian strain of left wing theory. It's anti liberal but that is the only way in which it has any similarity to conservatism.
@@DonnieDioIt’s you who is confusing these things. Anything that reifies and concretises traditional, cultural notions of what it is to be “feminine” or “masculine”, is definitionally conservative, regardless of whether the people who are doing it regard themselves as “left” or “right” (increasingly meaningless terms given how far their typical usage has seen them drift from the meaning they had throughout the 19th and 20th centuries). India Willoughby has explicitly right-wing politics. So does, for example, Caitlin Jenner. The fact that they are trans doesn’t magically negate their politics and make them “left” Gender ideology is the bastard child of (nominally left-ish, European) Post-modernism and (nominally right-ish, American) hyper-individualism.
@shirleydanby4123 we have a new law coming on Apr 1st...it's a Hate Crime Law .... lots of things=ANYTHING is now involved...I cannae call ma Mum old or she can phone the polis and have me taken in to custody!!! Yes, it's that SILLY!!!
She is a fence sitter. You cannot recognize men as women and women as men sometimes but not always.... Society doesn't work like that, She could recognize the truth about sex all day long.But if she doesn't put that into practice and policy, it means nothing. So it's nuanced to give men a license that says that they are a woman but then not allow them into women's spaces.... That has worked so well...
It’s a simple subject tho. A bio msn can or cannot be a woman. Helen creates special categories of trans woman. She’s nuanced. There is no nuance. A msn is not a woman. There is no way to fit on this fence. Also she creates strawmen when she suggests the anti trans side doesn’t think men should be able to dress as woman. I don’t care how anyone dresses. But facts are facts.
@@reneep.1978 Language matters. Using female language for men s exactly what got us here in the first place. If people genuinely believe men can't become women then why call some men, she?.
@@joce11 I don't disagree with you. I just think as long as no one is being forced/threatened to go along with it everyone has a right to their own ideas/opinions and how they choose to show basic respect for others. I don't necessarily like or agree with those ideas/opinions, but I do respect their right to have them.
Helen Pluckrose is making the mistake of connecting any behaviour or idea that is illiberal with being right wing, but that's completely wrong and totally misunderstands what right, left, and liberal are. Obviously. Communism is extremely illiberal and clearly left wing for instance. As for trans ideology. The right wing position on a man who acts in feminine ways would be to tell that person to be more manly. The extreme left opinion is that person actually must be a woman and so should transition into one somehow. Both are illiberal positions but are fundamentally different based on the side of the political spectrum they originate from.
She misrepresented the vast majority of GC as being "rw " when they are made up of people who come from all sides of the left right political paradigm and outside of it entirely, who recognize the intrinsic differences between the sexes but don't care what ppl wear, so long as sex segregated spaces and language representing sex, remain so
Helen - sorry, even if social conservatives disagree with the idea of homosexuality and transgenderism being normalised, that doesn’t mean they necessarily “hate all of them!”.
Yeah they do. Social conservatives = Dominionists. Look them up and see what Dominionists want to do to gay and trans people (as well as people of other religions...)
I remember reading in the 70’s, scifi authors writing futuristic stories about people doing weird things to their bodies as trend setters. I don’t think any of them saw this as a viable option even in the world of sci fi fiction. Who would write this and expect it would be read?
I am loving this series of conversations. This is not the sort of stuff that I usually watch on UA-cam. (I generally come for the lighter side of life and 'how to's'.) It is so good, however, to listen to two rational people, having a calm conversation about controversial topics. I am so fed up of the constant noise from people who want to reduce all interviews to emotional shouting matches.
Don’t tell anyone but I was standing in the layby on A48 just outside Newnham (England) early in the morning with my thumb out, hoping for a lift south. I had a long journey ahead of me to a village in Sussex. After only a few minutes a van pulled in and after thanking him I jumped into the passenger seat. Then after an embarrassingly short conversation I was forced to understand that this chap was a local farmer and had pulled into that layby to feed his sheep and wasn’t offering me a lift anywhere!!!
Gosh ,you aren't chicken jumping into someones car. I bet you felt sheepish having to moooove out of the car again. was the farmer Horse shouting at you?
Amazing, nuanced thinker - thanks for interviewing Helen. She says everything that should be said in an extremely balanced way. She doesn't dance around uncomfortable truths, she states them as they are, neutrally, without embellishments or handling them as a hot potato or although apologizing for having to say them. She also doesn't try to set everything on fire and watch it burn. I appreciate immensely both Kathleen Stock and Kelly Jay Keen, and their respective different approaches certainly do have their place in the discourse, but I find a more balanced stance more informative for the general public who thinks differently and who should be the target audience in order to sway the public opinion from the current quagmire of wokeness.
Gender is just a word meaning the clothes you like to wear. ( or fetishize), and the things you like to do ( or fetishize). It is meaningless. Sex is a fact, and is immutable. Stop saying gender when you mean sex, please.
I disagree. Gender is the behavioural aspect of sex. There are gendered behaviours. Why do little girls play with dolls naturally? Why do little boys play with trucks naturally? Why do female lion cubs learn to 'hunt' in play before their mothers start teaching them? Why do young female elephants start to help with looking after the babies, even before they bear their own babies? Both are biological and nothing to do with 'society' or 'social constructs' (although those things can further influence behaviour by overlaying an extra layer of social expectations onto already gendered behaviours). Two sides of the same coin.
@@nikilperbhoo1310 Gender ROLE, yes. That is a layer on top of what I view as 'true' gender. Which is sexed behaviours, rather than the physical attributes of sex.
And stuff like how you act socially. They can cross their legs all they like, swish their skirts, clutch their pearls, no worries. I don't do any of those things, still birthed two babies.
Given all this discussion about getting down to brass tacks about "trans" it still beggars imagination that this person continues to posit things like "the only thing about the L-G-B-T etc community that is certain is that social conservatives hate all of them. " Ah, no, this is called a generalization and should be reserved for chilldren.
Well Dominionists want them all either shoved back into the closet or sent to prison. And pretty much the entire conservative movement in the US is Dominionists now.
Very interesting discussion thanks. It's when they started messing with children and the absolute emotional blackmail and lies they use to get their own way that did it for me.
Helen Pluckrose helped me come out a truly horrific ideological mindset. She is forever an anchor when I feel my mind going into a panic. Honestly, the smartest and most astute woman out there. Let's have more of Helen's voice in the world!
I’ve given up using any pronouns, (at least I said that in my last job interview). The reason I gave was… “I’m staying out of this whole debate, which has nothing to do with this job. I want to avoid any conflict and remain neutral” Of course they took offense. It was worth a shot. But I refuse to misgender anyone, or deny reality.
The apparent confusion over "he or she" was incredible. If there is a threat to livelihood by this platform then say so so the audience can understand the position of the podcast. If there isn't a threat, then use language in a manner that it is not abused when doing so and does not confuse the audience into portraying that the conversation is taking place in the territory of the ideology.
@@dambar7486 The apparent confusion is a false scenario. It seemed to me there was an intimidatory variable at play - the threat to livelihood if a person uses particular terms that accurately sex an individual. That scenario in effect means that a person has to argue why they should be allowed to state the truth.
I have never heard anyone say men can't wear dresses. Where is Helen getting this from? These men may be weird but they have every right to be weird. But wearing a dress does not make you a women.
I just came here to say something similar. I’m Christian and hate no one, even though I go by Gods word. My son says he is gay and of course I don’t hate him. He knows how I feel about it and he respects that. Don’t get me wrong I hate that I can’t be apart of some of his life, I just pray one day he will be set free. Just as I pray for every sinner, because we are all sinners. I’ll love all people no hate here. 🙏🏼💖🙏🏼
You don't have to like or agree with her statement you just have to accept her right to her own opinions. I do agree that her statement was overgeneralised though.
She says that we have got many things wrong in the past because we start from a wrong premise, like atheism, homosexuality, slavery etc. And then she goes and makes a whole argument based on what could be argued is a false premise, that the trans movement is not harmful to society (women and children specifically), or that being trans is the same as being gay.
@@gemmab4150 Who is "they" and where can I see these "accusations"? She is wishy-washy at best, trying to dance along a line between liberalism and libertarianism that smacks of opportunism.
@MichaelWilson-ee8zx already on twitter she's been accused of being a TRA by GCs. Because she doesn't tow the line 100%, ironically prominent GC accounts are accusing her of being on the otherside. It proves Helen's point.
@@gemmab4150 Right. So just give me a link. She gets herself into trouble by suggesting that it's OK for trans-identifying men to use women's change rooms, thus ignoring all the women and girls that makes uncomfortable. Trying so hard to be "nuanced" is inane.
Why do people want to control the thoughts of everybody else. Transphobia, islamophobia... where is the line between a personal opinion and a personal opinion acted upon in a way that it poses a threat to others? So many people want to control others rather than working on their own fears and dislikes.
It's a shame some people in the gender critical movement feel compelled to put themselves and others through purity tests. Leave that baloney to the Communists! Don't make perfect the enemy of good.
She appears to have confused some GC terfs comments made in regards to particular individuals, to being representative of what GC terfs want as a whole, which is not the case. The GC argument has been that no one cares what you wear or how you identify, just respect sex segregated spaces.
Helen's allegiance to left wing political ideologies and related policies prevents her from being a trustworthy and consistent objective analyst and commentator.
@@gemmab4150 Interestingly, conservative political commentators tend to be a little more accepting of expanding their horizons and not clinging to clearly batshit preconceptions and utopian ideals. Probably because conservatism is grounded in reality, not idealism.
Calling people "transphobic" is very counterproductive in helping trans people being well accepted in society, sadly. There's nothing more natural than wondering if a person is a woman or a man, and when it's obvious the person is transgender, it creates some easy to understand unease. If we could create a better exchange, not based on the assumption they're not accepted, but on education and mutual acceptance, that would be a better way to an earthly paradise for everyone's inclusion.
All of this hurts my 90s teen brain with all of the no labels and we were doing pretty good with racism. These people have wrought nothing but division.
Yes, as a 40 year old brain in the 1990s, they were the best 10 years (1990- 2000) of this whole debacle. The sweet spot, as they say, and then the pendulum kept on swinging.
What the hell does Gender Critical mean? If it means what I think it means, wouldn't 'Absolute Realist' or 'Gender Realist' be better? I guess Based or Grounded (in reality) are similar.
While I don’t want Helen to be arrested, I do think it would actually garner some much needed attention to the ridiculousness of this all. Especially if she built up some attention in the lead up to her arrest. Make it well known exactly what she’s doing, push the boundaries incrementally of free speech & freedom of expression while making sure the media knows about it until the breaking point which would be her arrest. I’d definitely support her through that. I suspect many would.
@@DrDeuteronThat’s my whole point! Free speech absolutely does now come with boundaries & restrictions. Which is why we are here now, why this interview was conducted - because we can’t say a man is not a woman. My point was, I’d love for Helen to push these boundaries by stating facts & pushing those boundaries that may lead to her arrest (if she chooses to do this), so that the absurdity of all of this is shown. Now sure what you’re not understanding here?
@@chippieco.1898 I get it, but please don't call it free speech, because it's by definition: not. And never use the phrase "free expression", because that is a whole marxist thing.
Whilst I don’t think Helen came across that well in this interview, I would urge you to read her book co-authored with James Lindsay, Cynical Theories. It’s so important and really should be required reading in senior schools (if we lived in a sane world). It’s a great overview and explanation of Critical Theory. I do agree with Helen that as gender critical people, we need to choose our battles. For me, the loss of women- only spaces, our language, our sports and (most importantly) the coercion of vulnerable children to transition are the issues I care passionately about. The pronouns are stupid, but if someone asked me nicely in a social situation, I might call him “her” to be polite. I don’t believe you can actually transition and I do think that most younger transitioners are people with ASD, ADHD or low-level mental health issues. The older transitioners are usually AGP. Recently, there has been a schism among those who are gender critical, due to the Debbie Hayton furore. Kellie Jay Keen and some of the more radical feminist GC commentators have been very vitriolic about AGPs who are critical of transing kids and who - like Debbie - say that they live as females but are not women. KJK said that there are no “good ones” (trans AGPs). She and other GC activists say that autogynephilia is a paraphilia that is so strong it permeates those affected in every aspect of their lives and it is a sxual fetish. They argue that the wives of these men are always traumatised and are victims. I’m not so sure. These activists have also been very unkind about men like Graham Linehan, just because he’s a friend of Debbie. God knows, Graham has suffered more than enough for the cause. Give him a break ladies. KJK and others lost my support over this issue. I don’t think Debbie Hayton presents a threat to anyone and he does a lot of good by speaking out against transing kids from the perspective of a man who has done full bottom surgery. His wife, according to Stella O’Malley who has met and interviewed her extensively, is not traumatised at all. I’m not claiming that no women are traumatised by having husbands who go trans, but I think we need to get things in perspective. Other aspects of interpersonal relationships are also traumatic, such as serial infidelity and domestic violence. We need to focus on the main dangers of trans activism, not interpersonal relationships. Live and let live if nobody is being hurt and no freedoms are being impinged upon. When fighting a monster, we need to be careful not to become a different version of the monster we are battling.
With respect, I could not disagree more. If people who claim to be GC genuinely believe men can't become women and support women's rights etc then why call some men, she?. IMO all these so called GC people have is their luxury beliefs. Thank goodness ordinary women have KJK.
Debbie Hayton was involved in the Union Guidelines that erodes girls' boundaries in schools. He hasn't apologised or tried to amend his mistake- he dodged the issue when asked about it. So yes, he has caused harm.
I wasn’t aware of that. I’ve just read an article he wrote about this and he seems to be in favour of kids “who identify as trans” using the toilets they “feel most comfortable” using. That’s not good. However, I still think we need to look at people as individuals, so that people who just want to get on with their lives can do so (if not hurting anyone else) It used to happen before trans activists were a thing.
I think what makes me feel very uneasy is that I have seen some activists on the GC side of the argument being unnecessarily cruel about people they call GC light.” My main concern is the way the trans movement seeks to erode women’s rights and harm children, but I don’t see why it’s necessary to be bitchy about people who are basically on the same side, but maybe not holding all of the same opinions. I’ve noticed that the most vitriolic bitchiness is aimed at men who are gender critical, like Graham and Andrew Doyle. It’s misandry and feels like these women are unhappy with any men being involved in the fight. I’m female myself, in case anyone is wondering. I’ve noticed some of the same misandry sprinkled into the Let Women Speak events. Not all of the speakers, but a few who have misandrist views. I stopped watching the YT uploads of their events for this reason. It should be possible to fight this battle without undermining and attacking people on the same side. Peter Boghossian is very good at bringing people with differing opinions together and asking questions in such a way that it’s possible to analyse the validity of the view the person holds without being offensive or unkind. I would suggest that KJK and the more strident feminist activists could benefit from taking a leaf out of his book. Alienating people on your own side is never a good tactic for winning.
@@gilly5094 the problem is that we can’t know every individual’s motivation or integrity. That’s exactly why there are times when we don’t treat everyone as individuals. Until recently, no man was permitted in women only spaces, for example. We had to ignore the fact that many, many individual men mean no harm and would be respectful. But there’s no way to tell which. There are also issues with straying from the truth on an individual basis. We can’t control the wider effect. If we call some men “she” because we think they’re genuinely dysphoria, it sends a message to others too - that it’s possible to actually change sex, or that if they pretend to think that, they can get away with it,
I mean, yeah. I'm a husky. I have full right to be a husky, although I'm free to not get my mandatory rabies shots and am allowed to drive a car, because me being a husky doesn't abolish my human rights. Yes I passed the driving test mom -.- Point is, nobody should be at risk of losing their job, their career, livelihood, sporting success etc for saying I'm not in fact a husky, or for being pissed I pissed in their garden. In fact, even if I am a husky, it should still be punishable if I take my pants off and take a dump in a public square. Even if I pick up.
Andrew Gold, what a wonderful interview! I am so glad and relieved that discourse CAN occur between humans who want to consider how complex and nuanced subjects situations are in this life! I was ignorant of Helen Pluckrose before this interview and am now, as has been the pattern with Heretics guests, now a fan. Thank you very much! I love your gentlemanly and intelligent manner in conducting these chats.
Thank you so much Helen for being sensible and intelligent. I was beginning to think the female world had abandoned us women, seems no one is brave enough to speak up. I do not understand what is happening….women used to stand united, now they’re too frightened to open their mouths.
I really enjoyed the discussion. I didn’t necessarily agree or disagree with any particular subject but it was good to think of things in a slightly different way. You could say it was very ‘nuanced’ 😂 but I liked it.
I am not sure I have ever seen anyone give such wishy washy answers to questions. Contrast this with the excellent interview with Joey Barton who in my opinion was insightful and coherent.
It's quite sad when you see what should be a rational educated adult try and twist and contort the facts because they are still so desperate to be right even though they know what they are saying is utterly wrong.
I like to know if I am talking to or about a biologically born male or a biologically born female.. however they present to the world. Is this a phobia ? Discuss 😊
Even babies recognise a person's sex instantly. It's obvious that sex is a far more important and natural classification than inner magical gendew feelies
Not a phobia. You live in the real world where those things actually matter; regardless of the fragile feelings of those who wish/want it to be different.
@@DrDeuteron Well of course yes, how observant of you.. the rest of us would never have known that when a little female baby was born she had been growing for 9 months in her mother's womb before birth... 🙄
@@shooster5884 Actually, I was politely scolding you for using the utterly [censored bad word] phrase, "biologically born female", when the correct term "female" means the exact same thing, but you had to go a different route with "im so smart" emoji.
Adhering completely to an ideology is - actually - disregarding the complexity of the world and of society, and preferring the map to the terrain. To criticise someone for diverging from pure ideology is...insanity.
![The Transgender Revolution with Helen Joyce [S2 Ep.30]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WDFXPlv-R_s/mqdefault.jpg)
Go to ground.news/andrew to access diverse perspectives and uncover the truth. Subscribe through my link to get 40% off unlimited access this month only. Hit like on the video, comment below!
youtube what a bunch of wankers. 92 views, yer right and 128 comments. its laughable. keep doing what your doing. cheers pal
National Socialist German Worker's Party is not "Right Wing". National Socialism is decidedly "Left Wing".
There appears to be someone trying to pass as you in the comments and trying to get ppl to talk elsewhere on telegram?
Scammers.
Andrew, when you and guests acquiesce to calling men women you lose all credibility. Checked out @ 18 minute mark.
If someone is gay, it doesn’t require anything of me. If someone is trans, they frequently require something of me. I resent the requirement that I have to change pronouns or pretend that I don’t know what I know. I’m fine with someone being trans, but don’t require work from me. I’m tired.
In some ways, trans and gay are each others opposites. Being gay is all about accepting who you are, what you like/want in a sex and/or life partner, and being fine with it. Being trans is all about NOT accepting who you are, and doing horrible things to your body to try to "fix" yourself. It's not a coincidence that some of the parents of "trans kids" are really uncomfortable with homosexuality.
Same sentiment over here. I’ve been exhausted for a while. I want no parts. If a man doesn’t like being a man that’s none of my problem. It’s funny how all the demands are being directed at women. The demands to give up female only spaces, sports & other female allocated resources(UN UK woman ambassador is a male). Tired indeed.
I know trans people since maybe twenty years or more. The office has a trans client for years. Seldom problems with these people. The last few years, something has changed. One thing that we MUST think in terms of gender identity. In reality, there are two theories. We have to be convinced to think like how the gender identity people want. In my opinion, people are more than social constructs. I reject this theory. There are some elements in it that we are strongly influenced by cultural and local influences. That's why you should be able to determine your own gender, because you feel it. I think that's all nonsense.
@robinredon It’s worse than just requiring something. Trans activist seek to deprive women of their same-sex spaces and even their language. There is also the danger to children who are mentally vulnerable and who may also be questioning their sexuality. Trans activists are happy to persuade these vulnerable kids that they’re in the ‘wrong body’ and to coerce them onto a pathway of medicalisation and surgery that leaves them sterile. That’s more than an inconvenience.
@@elkiebeerepoot5829I tell my kids these are the ‘old school trans’ It just wasn’t a big conversation, everyone just got on with life. 🤷🏻♀️
Not giving them access to women's sport isn't transphobia, it's ensuring fairness for women.
What about allowing trans men into mens' sport categories?
No trans-men are advocating for it. I wonder why?
Orrrrr maybe you're just a bigot.. Man that word really lost its edge, they really used that one to death
It`s not even about fairness. We segregate the sexes in sport because we know life isn`t fair. A boxing match between a man and a woman would have a very predictable end result and one of them may end up embarrased, the other might not make it to tomorrow
I'm under the impression that the men's division of most sports is in effect an open division, in other words, that "trans men", i.e., women are welcome. There may be exceptions such as boxing, where the legal authority does not allow it for safety reasons.
Having ideas and banning any you don't like is a different issue. A man claiming he is a woman and forcing himself into women's spaces and claiming hate crime if another person does not go along with his proclamations, is not "having an idea" - it is imposing a made-up fantasy on to reality.
Tell to Andrew, I've never seen my comments disappear as fast as they do on his channel.
@@sophietemple2728 doesn't it seem like this has gone on long enough now? Biologists and health boards agree - trans identities are real. There is physical evidence they have brain structures that indicate their brain indeed does not match their body. Why are we still dragging this out, its so stupid.
The planet is in real trouble now, it just seems like a big distraction
@@sophietemple2728only this is the new reality. India Willoughby insists that he is a woman and can therefore access women’s spaces. Clearly he still has some very negative male behaviours and is misogynistic. He is also determined to criminalise anyone who doesn’t accept his delusions.
We have fought too hard for women's spaces to be taken over by misogyny
If someone has a feeling of being the opposite sex, how can they feel what they have never been. They have no idea what their opposite sex feels! It's impossible, words are an imperfect medium of innate feelings.
Trans people can never feel what the opposite sex is like. Trans people want to BECOME how they SEE what the opposite sex looks like.
No they can’t feel it just see it.
They don't. I spoke with some transgender women, and the way how they see being a female is way out there.
Post mortem examinations of trans women consistently show sexual dimorphism in related neurotransmitters. There is a 'male brain' and a 'female brain'. Some people do have a brain that doesn't match the rest of their body. You've heard of intersex people right? People can be born with ovotestis. If this is possible, is it really so hard to believe our brains, hormones or chromosomes can also end up in an unusual configuration.
There's a guy called Forrest Valkai who can explain this all extremely well, I don't think he's quite as qualified as some other biologists I listen to but he's extremely well spoken on this stuff
Forrest Valkai is a biologist who knows this stuff inside out, please listen to some biologists not some transphobic Zionist lol
That’s always been my argument! You can’t say you feel like a woman if you don’t know what being a woman feels like. You can say you’re not happy in your body, or you wish you were a woman, but you cannot say you are a woman or you feel like one.
The TQA++++...HAS set back LGB BACK 40 YEAR'S!!! 💚💜💚
Yes, it has. I'd argue its set the whole of society back 40 years.
A is just asexual.
@@Liberty5024 And???
@@NickNack1972 You said TQA++ has set lgb back 40 years. I don't think A is involved in it.
@@Liberty5024 I don't believe in the letter A being attached to sexuality there's no such thing.
I remember when phobia meant IRRATIONAL fear and when community meant community.
Scientifically phobia just means going away from something and philia means you go toward it. Non-polar oily molecules are said to be hydrophobic but that doesn't mean they're terrified of water.
@@Aliandrin « n. 1. A persistent, abnormal, or irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid the feared stimulus. » -Nelson Canadian Dictionary of the English Language, 1996
@@AliandrinI mean, if you want to compare human rationality with oil and water, that could open up some interesting debates that I think would remind me a lot of what I hear from my super fundamentalist parents.
@@sisuriffs Yeah, we obviously need to use the psychological definition of "phobia", not one from chemistry, and that does involve the irrationality of the fear or aversion. For me, the trans phenomenon is terrifying, for perfectly rational reasons (so not a phobia). ...But that's one of the least abused words in gender ideology. I'm thinking "diversity", "equity", "inclusion", "care", "medical treatment"...
Helen Pluckrose s literally THE most Harry Potter name ever.
Sneaky Anglo-Saxons are everywhere!
@@IvorMektin1701 Well, we've had quite a influence on the world!
😉
She's a Ravenclaw for sure
Shes pretty darn magical too !!!!!!
Indeed, and she's fearless, she'd be a great addition to Hogwarts.
I’m sorry but I don’t see how wanting to live in reality and not in someone’s fantasy world can be seen as radical. If a man wants to wear makeup, heels and a dress I don’t care, I have a problem when he/society pretends that that makes him a woman. This is not opinions of gender critical feminists only , it’s very common opinions among all sorts of people.
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nnI don't think they were saying this idea is good because it's common just that this idea is not limited to "gender critical" ppl and is widespread
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn I might be wrong because I'm not the original poster.
I think they're pointing out that a particular view is just commonplace. This is because ppl are accused of being gender critical/transphobic for holding pretty mundane views and simultaneously mundane views are considered to be extreme and only held by far right Christian etc. And that you should educate yourself by trans activists/allies. It's used to attack and villify ppl into thinking they must change their views based on the fallacy of who else holds said view. It's a common tactic for example with J K Rowling of guilt by adjacency.
It is not "gender critical" to say being a woman is not just wearing a dress and make up. The opposite view would be considered sexist by the vast majority of ppl. Unless you want to make the argument that most ppl are gender critical but this terf/gender critical claim is used by trans ideologues to paint ppl as extremists while espousing far more extreme views of their own.
Yes, this is exactly what I meant.
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn There are all kinds of claims of what makes you transgender.
One of the most prevalent is simply saying you are. Arguably a lower barrier to entry.
There are those who believe gender is a performance and that they should be treated a certain way based on how they "present".
I've seen ppl say they are trans because they like to dress "cute".
Andrea Long Chu has utterly horrifying ideas of what makes him a woman.
A very famous trans man bases her identity on attraction to women.
There are all kinds of trans ppl simply demanding to be recognized as a woman, a man or something else and imposing their own gender beliefs on others. You can find literally thousands of videos of trans ppl screaming at members of the public for recognizing their sex and they often say, look at me, how can you think I'm a x.
I'm often told ppl aren't doing things or saying things I've seen. I get this with claims no one is claiming sex isn't binary too.
Anyway the point was that ppl who say, you aren't a woman just because you where a dress, are often berated online as terfs/gender critical/transphobes for a view that you appear to hold too.
Which makes it odd why you said it was a fallacy because you were then arguing against a view you hold?
Please consult the stonewall, mermaids and PSHE educational resources which include "cross dressing" as under the "trans umbrella".
"homosexuality and trans are not the same thing..." THANK. YOU.
Who said they were?
@@dandare1001Exactly. I'm astonished that it took a chat with Helen for the OP to realise this.
True ....except for the fact that many people who are gay, especially young people, identify as trans.
@@joce11To be fair, I think the host feigns naivety, sometimes. It's a good tactic to get the interviewee to elaborate.
He seems relatively well-read, so I doubt he didn't know the difference.
Oh dear. Andrew has cancelled most of our conversation.
There was a largish group of people discussing some points. We had some differing and some overlapping opinions. Nobody was being rude. It was a fine discussion.
Now all of the time we all had spent on the topics has disappeared into the ether. We'll never get that time back.
Not good.
Please reconsider, Andrew. Don't be a part of the cancel culture.
Everyone is just labeling Everyone as phobic now its so mental.
It's all manufactured. Nadia won Big Brother 20 years ago, everyone knew she was trans, no one gave a shit.
Look at the state of the world, the UK is absolutely ruined. Put the spotlight on a small, misunderstood community instead; transgenders, boat people, "hate marches". It's called scapegoating.
Calling everyone a transphobe is the very definition of transphobia-phobia.
stop being mentalphobic mate
@@MosaidDeath I like autodementophobia. Fear that you've gone mad.
The suffix is classic Orwellian gaslighting, implying that someone who simply dislikes something is at least somewhat mentally ill: a "phobia" is popularly understood to be an irrational fear. It's a transparent way of shutting down debate. As we know, the rallying cry of the trans mob is "No debate!"
The fact that activists label us cis-women shows that there IS a difference between a woman and 'a woman'. They, themselves, say so!
Yes, and telling how we must label ourselves tells us who is boss.
@@carolynbrightfield8911I agree
The pronoun thing strikes me like a litmus test and I don't like it. I have been on a job search and every interview starts with pronouns and it really bothers me. I feel like if I give mine it says one thing, if I skip it, it says something else and anything you say can and will be used to pry into your private views. I don't like feeling like my politics are being probed when I am trying to get a job and those private views will not change how I do the job.
100% aree, i really get quiet upset now when completing forms ,always having to negotiate nonsense.
You could tell them you have an old-skool trans friend who finds being asked to give her pronouns offensive after putting a lot of effort into her transition to present and live as a woman, so you're avoiding the pronoun thing. That might shut them up, and gives you a pass they can't object to. Just a suggestion.
That's shocking, that's like checking out your religion or politics in an interview. What sector are you in?
@@RaefonB Absurd how we're changing ourselves for a minority
I wouldn’t know how to deal with this, sorry you’re having to.
I'm on the side of J. K. Rowling, I don't care if people call India 'she'. I don't know how to categorize Transphobia anymore. In the past, when I was young, there was a lot of discrimination of gays and lesbians, (I have had good neighbors from the LBH group from my early childhood). Anyway, they've all lost their minds. I rely more on the ordinary people with common sense.
Calling men 'she' ends up with rape victims being forced to call their rapists 'she' in court, and talk about 'her penis'. Language matters.
In addition, it makes it impossible to say “she” can’t use women’s bathrooms, compete in women’s sports, or be put in a women’s prison. The activists know what they’re doing. We need to get wise to it too.
Categorising transphobia is easy, though. As the Kellie-Jay Keen sticker says, everything is transphobic.
Sorry Helen, they are far left. Time for left wingers to stop denying the extremism on their own side.
A multi billion dollar industry exploiting the vulnerable. I'm sure the Marxists and Anarchists are rubbing their hands with glee.
Specific one India is far right
Interesting that anyone still thinks Socialism qualifies as a component of the Classical Liberal political spectrum.
Authoritarian totalitarian political systems cannot be a component of the left or the right of the liberal discourse. They are illiberal, not liberal, outside of liberalism.
All varieties of socialism (Marxism, Nazism, Fascism and Critical Social Justice) are neither left or right wing, they are not 'far' right or left in the liberal discourse. Argument and debate with the New Hegelian Gnostic cults is pointless. They already "know" the answers to any contested point - because they are a religious cult.
If you haven't already watched it, have a look at TIK History's "Public Vs Private" video for a fulsome, yet entertaining description of what I mean.
ua-cam.com/video/ksAqr4lLA_Y/v-deo.htmlsi=VFJc-57U_EFH-CKN
Radicals on both sides of the political spectrum have the strange tendency of becoming indistinguishable from each other; so your confusion is understandable.
No one really understands what a liberal is anymore. Even many true liberals don't.
Here are some clues:
True liberalism progresses towards true liberty.
True conservatism constrains progress towards true liberty.
An insane person never questions his/her sanity. 😅
If you don't want to dogpile, debunk it. I think that's the main difference. A dogpile would be a thousand "you're stupid" while a debunk would be a thousand "here's why you're wrong"
Conflating the two approach doesn't help anyone.
Thanks for the mostly clear subtitles, FYI deafness and hearing impairments are the number one disability worldwide, so it’s really vital if you want to be accessible to as many people as.
You do you, but don’t expect to force me to play along, and leave children alone
Nailed it 👏👏👏
I would love to hear Helen Plukroses views on autogynephiles working in schools, does she agree that fetish in this instance should not be tolerated ? Is this why she thinks Kelllie-Jay is a militant? Because KJK is clear about who these men should not have access to.
WELL SAID...JK & K-J K ROCK
Also Kellie Jay is not gender critical. She doesn’t accept the word gender.
@@MB90-c5kNeither do I. The term 'gender' has no place outside a book of grammar. Biological entities do not have a gender. They have a sex: female or male. This is *determined* at fertilisation and cannot be changed.
(We know all about chromosomal aberrations and genetically caused metabolic disorders of hormones. These are very rare and cannot be cited as proof of non-binary sex.)
@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nnWhat do you think of the thousands of people who say they're autogynephiles?
Would you acknowledge that there are men who dress up as women for sexual kicks? Even if we just term them transvestites for example?
And in that case would you say that we should stop such men entering schools dressed in that way?
I've tried to find another position but I simply can't see a way past that if you have something that turns you on then you shouldn't actively engage in that around children.
@@robertmarshall2502 Exactly
Grateful for Helen's grievance studies work, but her "nuanced" stance is largely what has contributed to pushing this ideology into the mainstream.
We should never ignore nuance
Yes!!!
@lucywood1443 There is nuance and then there is what Helen is doing.You can't have both of your sides of your bread buttered. You can't recognize a man as a formal legal woman for one issue and then not another... If you identify a man as a legal woman on a Birth Certificate license etc.Then what stops that person from entering women'spaces when they are legally recognized as a woman?
@@roriemarie2968Hear, hear.
Helen forgets that not everyone has an IQ of 150 on the WAIS.🙂
Hearing Helen Pluckrose call a man “she” will never not be jarring. I guess everyone is taking the easy route now.
I'm not. I never will.
I actually think it's the other way around. More people are fed up and like me refuse to bend now.
Pluckrose often sounds like she's using trans identified *men* (as in I've never heard her talk about TIFs) & their "rights" to put other women in their place. She's often seemed scathing about women's concerns - and been both patronising & rude about at least a couple of women's rights campaigners. I remember her being dismayed by the response to a comment she made on Twitter (in 2020) about TIMs being more "oppressed" than women. Somebody has to think of the meninfrocks....
Helen could just say India and not use any pronoun.
I will use pro nouns in the same way that Helen does. It’s a personal choice but I agree that there should be situations when it is made clear such as crime reporting etc. I use the term trans women and not women. I don’t think we should police other people’s language though.
You seem undecided on pronouns Andrew. Hearing India called she by anyone is really REALLY offensive to women.
It's not offensive to all women. Some may not like it. Others might accept it or not. Others don't even care.
To be offended by it is pretty thick.
I don't give a flying f* if a trans man wants to be that. I'm not offended by that. What do I care? I have my own life to worry about.
I'm not really for trans people using single-sex toilets of the opposite gender to their own, but I actually have nothing against unisex toilets. It doesn't bother me.
As far as competing in sports, well that is a bit stupid and unfair. I don't care much about sports, though.
I suppose the way to sort that out would be to have all sports mixed. That would be very fair, but we know how that would end up, don't we. You'd probably be offended by it.
@@dandare1001it is offensive because it reduces women to a bunch of stereotypes. You as an individual may care more or less but it's still offensive towards women as a s ex class.
@@4651adriYou are stereotyping women by attempting to speak for all of them.
@@dandare1001 "I'm not offended by it and wouldnt be if the sexes were reversed, therefor anyone who is offended is thick" That is what you sound like. Telling other people that if you arent bothered, they shouldnt be either. YOU don't speak for anyone but you, and none of us need to live up to your pathetic standards. As a woman, I agree with the other commenters, and I dont think its speaking for all of us to state the fact that it is offensive to act as though a costume makes you female.
@@dandare1001 1- that's not what 'stereotyping' means and 2- you're still thinking in an egotistical way. I'm not speaking for all of us, I'm talking from a dignity and human rights perspective, not my personal or emotional one.
Men can wear whatever they want, but the trouble is that they expect to be called women if they wear dresses and also expect access to women's only spaces. That point should've been addressed.
It was addressed repeatedly. She said yes to wearing what they want, that it's up to you whether to call them men or women, and no to women-only spaces.
What video did you watch??
@@ryanclovis5I don't know about you, but as a man (who was born male), if I'm desperately in need of a bathroom and the men's isn't available, I'm using the women's, because the alternative is to drop my trousers and take a shit on the floor. And that's not very widely accepted either, and there's usually no toilet paper. :P
@@damianjblack What a stupid respond onset.. In all my life I've never felt the need to use the men's bathroom.. 🙄 No decent man would ever use the ladies... And if there's a ladies, there will also be a gents.. Sanity needs to return to society ffs.. 🙄
@@damianjblack The general rule is different from emergencies. But presumably you'd be humble and apologetic about it and explain your predicament to any ladies you met in there, because you're not deluded about what sex you are.
I’d like to hear the argument why a white person can identify as a black person. Then lay the arguments side by side.
I used to watch karlyn boryshenko quite often. One time I commented on a video that I didn't agree with her position that prostitution should be legalized because it harms women. She replied that she would not tolerate such views. I thought that was strange because she always held up free speech as a core value, so I said that I thought we should be able to disagree and not demand ideological purity of each other but she then replied that basically she thought I was an idiot. So I unsubscribed and blocked her, I couldn't believe she would react that way given her professed values and nevermind basic human decency. Now I can see why she was nominated for a grifty award 😬 talk about audience capture...
it seems that more and more people require others to agree with them 100% which is unrealistic and frightening. I have two friends with whom I disagree 180° on two hot topics, and I like them anyway. We agree enough on so many other things. But I admit that with one of them, I carefully avoid certain subjects because she gets aggressive over them. And yet she believes she is open-minded.
Dude I saw her on some podcast a year or so ago and I liked her so I checked out her own podcast/videos and…. Well she’s not who I thought she was. She was way too far left for me and I’m on the left.
I also thought her content had something to offer at first, but quickly came to a similar conclusion.
Same. I interacted with her. She started stalking me. She’s nuts
Karilyn is a well known narcissistic bully.
She has a history of going after individuals in a very unhinged way, lying about them, playing victim, doing long hysterical videos screaming about what can only be described as her own paranoid delusions about perceived persecutions. She's a very troubled person.
Beware!
10:25 what they say is: ‘a trans woman is a woman’. We all know that’s not true.
Yeah I caught that one: if it was all about the label transwoman I wouldn't have an issue but that label has been ditched the minute a man states: I feel like a woman
It might be... they still haven't defined what it is. ^_^
"trans women are women" , "biological females are CIS" , these snakes are proclaiming themselves as women and giving biological women a different name... WTAF?!
Transwoman, I don't like it, personally prefer MtF, but I'd go with that. Trans woman, no, the adjective "trans" can get dropped, and them the lie (woman) begins. Healthy ethical people don't need to lie about themselves.
@@YammoYammamoto A woman is a human female. Male/female indicate animal sex but man/woman indicate human sex.
So we've basically moved from 'pray the gay away' to 'trans the gay away'? Also Helen, love you, but please stop addressing biological males as 'she'
It is very conservative. A male that’s into Barbie’s and dresses isn’t proving that males can also be into those things…he must just be a female trapped in a male body! Because that makes much more sense 🤦🏻♀️
Humbug. Its the least Conservative thing.
No the conservative position is and has always been that the person in question should not give into his desires for dresses and Barbies because hes a man and that's not manly behaviour. The mistake you're making, as is this women in the video is positioning anything that isn't liberal as conservative. But that's a mistake and completely misunderstands the fact that left wing is not automatically the same as Liberal. In fact often left wing ideas are completely anti liberal, see Communism for instance which by definition is extremely authoritarian and also left wing. So in summation what we have here is a hard line authoritarian strain of left wing theory. It's anti liberal but that is the only way in which it has any similarity to conservatism.
@@DonnieDioWell said.
@@DonnieDioIt’s you who is confusing these things. Anything that reifies and concretises traditional, cultural notions of what it is to be “feminine” or “masculine”, is definitionally conservative, regardless of whether the people who are doing it regard themselves as “left” or “right” (increasingly meaningless terms given how far their typical usage has seen them drift from the meaning they had throughout the 19th and 20th centuries).
India Willoughby has explicitly right-wing politics. So does, for example, Caitlin Jenner. The fact that they are trans doesn’t magically negate their politics and make them “left”
Gender ideology is the bastard child of (nominally left-ish, European) Post-modernism and (nominally right-ish, American) hyper-individualism.
please talk to a scot or lawyer about the current situation in scotland, because scotland is in hell at the moment
@rosawatters ,yes I keep hearing about this, but I need clarity
@shirleydanby4123 we have a new law coming on Apr 1st...it's a Hate Crime Law .... lots of things=ANYTHING is now involved...I cannae call ma Mum old or she can phone the polis and have me taken in to custody!!! Yes, it's that SILLY!!!
All the Scottish population should vexatiously report hate speech and see if the police can honour their pledge to "investigate every one".
I took a drink every time I heard the word 'nuanced' and I had to go to hospital
"hierarchies" with JP is more dangerous.
😂😂😂😂
This is life.
i think the new version of transphobia means "thinks differently to me, won't give me everything I want, is speaking and won't shut up and be told."
I like and respect her, but I have little tolerance for fence sitters anymore.
Being able to see, understand and respect both sides of this issue doesn't make her a fence sitter.
She is a fence sitter. You cannot recognize men as women and women as men sometimes but not always.... Society doesn't work like that, She could recognize the truth about sex all day long.But if she doesn't put that into practice and policy, it means nothing. So it's nuanced to give men a license that says that they are a woman but then not allow them into women's spaces.... That has worked so well...
It’s a simple subject tho. A bio msn can or cannot be a woman. Helen creates special categories of trans woman.
She’s nuanced. There is no nuance.
A msn is not a woman. There is no way to fit on this fence.
Also she creates strawmen when she suggests the anti trans side doesn’t think men should be able to dress as woman. I don’t care how anyone dresses. But facts are facts.
@@reneep.1978 Language matters. Using female language for men s exactly what got us here in the first place. If people genuinely believe men can't become women then why call some men, she?.
@@joce11 I don't disagree with you. I just think as long as no one is being forced/threatened to go along with it everyone has a right to their own ideas/opinions and how they choose to show basic respect for others. I don't necessarily like or agree with those ideas/opinions, but I do respect their right to have them.
In a Society of Lies, Speaking the Truth is Revolutionary!
😺
Helen Pluckrose is making the mistake of connecting any behaviour or idea that is illiberal with being right wing, but that's completely wrong and totally misunderstands what right, left, and liberal are. Obviously. Communism is extremely illiberal and clearly left wing for instance. As for trans ideology. The right wing position on a man who acts in feminine ways would be to tell that person to be more manly. The extreme left opinion is that person actually must be a woman and so should transition into one somehow. Both are illiberal positions but are fundamentally different based on the side of the political spectrum they originate from.
She misrepresented the vast majority of GC as being "rw " when they are made up of people who come from all sides of the left right political paradigm and outside of it entirely, who recognize the intrinsic differences between the sexes but don't care what ppl wear, so long as sex segregated spaces and language representing sex, remain so
I enjoyed the interview. I don't agree with everything Pluckrose says, but I enjoy her capacity for reflective and careful thought.
Helen - sorry, even if social conservatives disagree with the idea of homosexuality and transgenderism being normalised, that doesn’t mean they necessarily “hate all of them!”.
Yeah they do. Social conservatives = Dominionists. Look them up and see what Dominionists want to do to gay and trans people (as well as people of other religions...)
Why don't you ask her why she's calling a man 'she'?
people in 1980: '' in 40 years we will have flying cars!''
people in 2024: ''12yo girls should cut their breasts if they want too''
Yeah, I remember those happy simpler days!
If someone can convince them that they want to*
I remember reading in the 70’s, scifi authors writing futuristic stories about people doing weird things to their bodies as trend setters. I don’t think any of them saw this as a viable option even in the world of sci fi fiction. Who would write this and expect it would be read?
It took a real detour didn't it?
@@LizOBrienRochford-gs2kj Julie Verne?
Nice to see Helen again. Such a clear thinker. The work she did with James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian was vital.
I am loving this series of conversations. This is not the sort of stuff that I usually watch on UA-cam. (I generally come for the lighter side of life and 'how to's'.) It is so good, however, to listen to two rational people, having a calm conversation about controversial topics. I am so fed up of the constant noise from people who want to reduce all interviews to emotional shouting matches.
Don’t tell anyone but I was standing in the layby on A48 just outside Newnham (England) early in the morning with my thumb out, hoping for a lift south. I had a long journey ahead of me to a village in Sussex.
After only a few minutes a van pulled in and after thanking him I jumped into the passenger seat.
Then after an embarrassingly short conversation I was forced to understand that this chap was a local farmer and had pulled into that layby to feed his sheep and wasn’t offering me a lift anywhere!!!
We won't tell anyone
Ehm ... but can i tell myself? Just once?
Been there, done that...well, been hitching somewhere and done something similar. And I also lived in a village in West Sussex.
Gosh ,you aren't chicken jumping into someones car. I bet you felt sheepish having to moooove out of the car again. was the farmer Horse shouting at you?
Idk why but I laughed really loud at this comment. It’s one of those embarrassing “don’t look at me!!!” Moments.
Amazing, nuanced thinker - thanks for interviewing Helen. She says everything that should be said in an extremely balanced way. She doesn't dance around uncomfortable truths, she states them as they are, neutrally, without embellishments or handling them as a hot potato or although apologizing for having to say them. She also doesn't try to set everything on fire and watch it burn. I appreciate immensely both Kathleen Stock and Kelly Jay Keen, and their respective different approaches certainly do have their place in the discourse, but I find a more balanced stance more informative for the general public who thinks differently and who should be the target audience in order to sway the public opinion from the current quagmire of wokeness.
Gender is just a word meaning the clothes you like to wear. ( or fetishize), and the things you like to do ( or fetishize). It is meaningless. Sex is a fact, and is immutable. Stop saying gender when you mean sex, please.
I disagree. Gender is the behavioural aspect of sex. There are gendered behaviours. Why do little girls play with dolls naturally? Why do little boys play with trucks naturally? Why do female lion cubs learn to 'hunt' in play before their mothers start teaching them? Why do young female elephants start to help with looking after the babies, even before they bear their own babies?
Both are biological and nothing to do with 'society' or 'social constructs' (although those things can further influence behaviour by overlaying an extra layer of social expectations onto already gendered behaviours). Two sides of the same coin.
@hayleylongster4698 i do agree both sex and gender are biological whereas gender role is a social construct.
@@nikilperbhoo1310 Gender ROLE, yes. That is a layer on top of what I view as 'true' gender. Which is sexed behaviours, rather than the physical attributes of sex.
And stuff like how you act socially. They can cross their legs all they like, swish their skirts, clutch their pearls, no worries. I don't do any of those things, still birthed two babies.
I think it is a respect issue. The constant demand for everyone to respect them but not giving respect in return.
Anyone who demands respect does not deserve it.
Just discovered this pod-cast and it's amazing. Gonna binge watch all your previous videos now.
Given all this discussion about getting down to brass tacks about "trans" it still beggars imagination that this person continues to posit things like "the only thing about the L-G-B-T etc community that is certain is that social conservatives hate all of them. " Ah, no, this is called a generalization and should be reserved for chilldren.
Well Dominionists want them all either shoved back into the closet or sent to prison. And pretty much the entire conservative movement in the US is Dominionists now.
Social conservatives = Dominionists. Look them up and see what Dominionists want to do to LGBT folks.
Who wants to ban men from wearing dresses? I've been following this issue for years and I've never heard anyone say this ever.
Very interesting discussion thanks. It's when they started messing with children and the absolute emotional blackmail and lies they use to get their own way that did it for me.
0:19 Criticizing Islam actually get conflated with racism towards Arabian people - Muslim is not a race.
Tell that to Ben Affleck 😂
@@miroirs-jumeaux Oh jeez, he made such a fool of himself.
Helen Pluckrose helped me come out a truly horrific ideological mindset. She is forever an anchor when I feel my mind going into a panic. Honestly, the smartest and most astute woman out there. Let's have more of Helen's voice in the world!
LOVE this woman.... I saw here on a John Clese thing around Christmas. It was very brief, and I am SO HAPPY this is so in depth.
Helen Pluckrose is a hero and heroine for women. Thankyou.
I’ve given up using any pronouns, (at least I said that in my last job interview). The reason I gave was…
“I’m staying out of this whole debate, which has nothing to do with this job. I want to avoid any conflict and remain neutral”
Of course they took offense. It was worth a shot. But I refuse to misgender anyone, or deny reality.
"I" is a pronoun, and you used it at least six times in that comment.
@@damianjblack thanks professor!
@@damianjblack damn! You’re right! Aaaagh. I did it again!
@@MosaidDeathmuch laughter
The apparent confusion over "he or she" was incredible. If there is a threat to livelihood by this platform then say so so the audience can understand the position of the podcast.
If there isn't a threat, then use language in a manner that it is not abused when doing so and does not confuse the audience into portraying that the conversation is taking place in the territory of the ideology.
People should use whatever pronouns they like. That cuts both ways.
@@dambar7486 The apparent confusion is a false scenario.
It seemed to me there was an intimidatory variable at play - the threat to livelihood if a person uses particular terms that accurately sex an individual.
That scenario in effect means that a person has to argue why they should be allowed to state the truth.
Transphobia - anything you say that I dont like
I’m not participating in this charade - if you’re using pronouns, you’ve already drank far too much koolaid
"I'm", "you're" and "you've"... three pronouns right there.
I have never heard anyone say men can't wear dresses. Where is Helen getting this from? These men may be weird but they have every right to be weird. But wearing a dress does not make you a women.
Plenty of women never wear dresses.
@@philippadowney549 ya, but wearing a dress does not make you a women….
Andrew, why did you not call Pluckrose out for saying "Social conservatives hate all of them"? Such a blanket and UNTRUE statement. Boooo
I just came here to say something similar.
I’m Christian and hate no one, even though I go by Gods word. My son says he is gay and of course I don’t hate him. He knows how I feel about it and he respects that.
Don’t get me wrong I hate that I can’t be apart of some of his life, I just pray one day he will be set free. Just as I pray for every sinner, because we are all sinners.
I’ll love all people no hate here. 🙏🏼💖🙏🏼
You don't have to like or agree with her statement you just have to accept her right to her own opinions. I do agree that her statement was overgeneralised though.
@@reneep.1978she has the right to say untrue things. We have the right to correct her.
@@kitkowalski Never said you didn't
@reneep.1978 good oh.
She says that we have got many things wrong in the past because we start from a wrong premise, like atheism, homosexuality, slavery etc. And then she goes and makes a whole argument based on what could be argued is a false premise, that the trans movement is not harmful to society (women and children specifically), or that being trans is the same as being gay.
How many times can the word "nuanced" be used in a 5 minute period? New world record attempt! 😂
🙂
Her presentation of "what gender critical feminists say" is so exaggerated as to constitute a lie.
She's so bad faith. She's basically just lying.
She isn't. They're accusing her of being a TRA now.
@@gemmab4150 Who is "they" and where can I see these "accusations"? She is wishy-washy at best, trying to dance along a line between liberalism and libertarianism that smacks of opportunism.
@MichaelWilson-ee8zx already on twitter she's been accused of being a TRA by GCs. Because she doesn't tow the line 100%, ironically prominent GC accounts are accusing her of being on the otherside. It proves Helen's point.
@@gemmab4150 Right. So just give me a link. She gets herself into trouble by suggesting that it's OK for trans-identifying men to use women's change rooms, thus ignoring all the women and girls that makes uncomfortable. Trying so hard to be "nuanced" is inane.
Why do people want to control the thoughts of everybody else. Transphobia, islamophobia... where is the line between a personal opinion and a personal opinion acted upon in a way that it poses a threat to others? So many people want to control others rather than working on their own fears and dislikes.
To create division. We the people hold the power, but most don't realise it.
Abrahamic religions
It's a shame some people in the gender critical movement feel compelled to put themselves and others through purity tests. Leave that baloney to the Communists! Don't make perfect the enemy of good.
She appears to have confused some GC terfs comments made in regards to particular individuals, to being representative of what GC terfs want as a whole, which is not the case. The GC argument has been that no one cares what you wear or how you identify, just respect sex segregated spaces.
What a lovely, gently spoken person. Very interesting interview.
Helen's allegiance to left wing political ideologies and related policies prevents her from being a trustworthy and consistent objective analyst and commentator.
I take it you don't trust conservative political commentators then either
And this nonsense was implemented by centre right govts, not any left wing nation
Why? Can a person not have beliefs or alignments and still be educated or make salient points?
🎯
@@gemmab4150 Interestingly, conservative political commentators tend to be a little more accepting of expanding their horizons and not clinging to clearly batshit preconceptions and utopian ideals. Probably because conservatism is grounded in reality, not idealism.
Lost me when she started on about “real trans women.”
No. There are not. If I think I’m Batman I’m not trans Batman. I’m just wrong
Agree. If there are real trans adults , then real trans children also exist who need puberty blockers. Big red flag.
she talks out of both sides of her mouth
Transphobia is fear . Pushing back is not that . Overuse gives it no meaning .. I could care less if they throw that at me .
Yes, it has very much become the boy who cried wolf.
it depends where you live whether you care
Calling people "transphobic" is very counterproductive in helping trans people being well accepted in society, sadly. There's nothing more natural than wondering if a person is a woman or a man, and when it's obvious the person is transgender, it creates some easy to understand unease. If we could create a better exchange, not based on the assumption they're not accepted, but on education and mutual acceptance, that would be a better way to an earthly paradise for everyone's inclusion.
The fear of stumbling on linguistic tripwires makes almost any relevant discussion very hard to follow.. which is very sad
It is a tactic used by abusive people well known with regards to domestic abusers and people with personality disorders.
All of this hurts my 90s teen brain with all of the no labels and we were doing pretty good with racism. These people have wrought nothing but division.
Yes, as a 40 year old brain in the 1990s, they were the best 10 years (1990- 2000) of this whole debacle. The sweet spot, as they say, and then the pendulum kept on swinging.
You can’t force others to live in your imagination
Feminists do
What the hell does Gender Critical mean?
If it means what I think it means, wouldn't 'Absolute Realist' or 'Gender Realist' be better? I guess Based or Grounded (in reality) are similar.
Gender critical means just that. Sceptical of the idea of gender.
"Sex realist".
She does understand. I class myself as GC. I see many of what she sees in the movement.
I think Helen is forgetting actual trans people with gender dysphoria are a tiny percentage of the trans group
Nobody's really 'trans'. They're just people with actual gender dysphoria.
As Amy Sousa says , there’s no such thing as gender dysphoria .
And what 'title' are the rest?
@shooster well, most are either kids with autism/mental health issues, or older autogynephiliacs.
@@salvolondon why not?
While I don’t want Helen to be arrested, I do think it would actually garner some much needed attention to the ridiculousness of this all. Especially if she built up some attention in the lead up to her arrest. Make it well known exactly what she’s doing, push the boundaries incrementally of free speech & freedom of expression while making sure the media knows about it until the breaking point which would be her arrest. I’d definitely support her through that. I suspect many would.
"boundaries of free speech" ....oxymoron much?
@@DrDeuteronThat’s my whole point! Free speech absolutely does now come with boundaries & restrictions. Which is why we are here now, why this interview was conducted - because we can’t say a man is not a woman. My point was, I’d love for Helen to push these boundaries by stating facts & pushing those boundaries that may lead to her arrest (if she chooses to do this), so that the absurdity of all of this is shown. Now sure what you’re not understanding here?
@@chippieco.1898 I get it, but please don't call it free speech, because it's by definition: not.
And never use the phrase "free expression", because that is a whole marxist thing.
Helen. It was you being interviewed. Is there a chance that you can answer a question and not start it with 'gender critical feminists would say xxx'?
Academic types always refer than declare 🙄
@@OrwellsHousecat I'm an academic type and I don't.
Which is probably why I don't work in academia any more ;o)
i am ok with the gays 100% this trans thing is just too much, too unantural
Helen is so calibrated and nuanced. I love her point of view.
What a lovely woman . I love her purple floral top and she’s so intelligent. Listening to her was calming
Is @hereticsclips an official new channel?
Looking forward to another excellent video.
Yep! Thanks !
Whilst I don’t think Helen came across that well in this interview, I would urge you to read her book co-authored with James Lindsay, Cynical Theories. It’s so important and really should be required reading in senior schools (if we lived in a sane world). It’s a great overview and explanation of Critical Theory.
I do agree with Helen that as gender critical people, we need to choose our battles. For me, the loss of women- only spaces, our language, our sports and (most importantly) the coercion of vulnerable children to transition are the issues I care passionately about. The pronouns are stupid, but if someone asked me nicely in a social situation, I might call him “her” to be polite. I don’t believe you can actually transition and I do think that most younger transitioners are people with ASD, ADHD or low-level mental health issues. The older transitioners are usually AGP.
Recently, there has been a schism among those who are gender critical, due to the Debbie Hayton furore. Kellie Jay Keen and some of the more radical feminist GC commentators have been very vitriolic about AGPs who are critical of transing kids and who - like Debbie - say that they live as females but are not women. KJK said that there are no “good ones” (trans AGPs). She and other GC activists say that autogynephilia is a paraphilia that is so strong it permeates those affected in every aspect of their lives and it is a sxual fetish. They argue that the wives of these men are always traumatised and are victims. I’m not so sure. These activists have also been very unkind about men like Graham Linehan, just because he’s a friend of Debbie. God knows, Graham has suffered more than enough for the cause. Give him a break ladies. KJK and others lost my support over this issue.
I don’t think Debbie Hayton presents a threat to anyone and he does a lot of good by speaking out against transing kids from the perspective of a man who has done full bottom surgery. His wife, according to Stella O’Malley who has met and interviewed her extensively, is not traumatised at all. I’m not claiming that no women are traumatised by having husbands who go trans, but I think we need to get things in perspective. Other aspects of interpersonal relationships are also traumatic, such as serial infidelity and domestic violence. We need to focus on the main dangers of trans activism, not interpersonal relationships.
Live and let live if nobody is being hurt and no freedoms are being impinged upon. When fighting a monster, we need to be careful not to become a different version of the monster we are battling.
With respect, I could not disagree more. If people who claim to be GC genuinely believe men can't become women and support women's rights etc then why call some men, she?. IMO all these so called GC people have is their luxury beliefs. Thank goodness ordinary women have KJK.
Debbie Hayton was involved in the Union Guidelines that erodes girls' boundaries in schools. He hasn't apologised or tried to amend his mistake- he dodged the issue when asked about it.
So yes, he has caused harm.
I wasn’t aware of that. I’ve just read an article he wrote about this and he seems to be in favour of kids “who identify as trans” using the toilets they “feel most comfortable” using. That’s not good.
However, I still think we need to look at people as individuals, so that people who just want to get on with their lives can do so (if not hurting anyone else) It used to happen before trans activists were a thing.
I think what makes me feel very uneasy is that I have seen some activists on the GC side of the argument being unnecessarily cruel about people they call GC light.” My main concern is the way the trans movement seeks to erode women’s rights and harm children, but I don’t see why it’s necessary to be bitchy about people who are basically on the same side, but maybe not holding all of the same opinions. I’ve noticed that the most vitriolic bitchiness is aimed at men who are gender critical, like Graham and Andrew Doyle. It’s misandry and feels like these women are unhappy with any men being involved in the fight. I’m female myself, in case anyone is wondering. I’ve noticed some of the same misandry sprinkled into the Let Women Speak events. Not all of the speakers, but a few who have misandrist views. I stopped watching the YT uploads of their events for this reason.
It should be possible to fight this battle without undermining and attacking people on the same side. Peter Boghossian is very good at bringing people with differing opinions together and asking questions in such a way that it’s possible to analyse the validity of the view the person holds without being offensive or unkind. I would suggest that KJK and the more strident feminist activists could benefit from taking a leaf out of his book. Alienating people on your own side is never a good tactic for winning.
@@gilly5094 the problem is that we can’t know every individual’s motivation or integrity. That’s exactly why there are times when we don’t treat everyone as individuals. Until recently, no man was permitted in women only spaces, for example. We had to ignore the fact that many, many individual men mean no harm and would be respectful. But there’s no way to tell which.
There are also issues with straying from the truth on an individual basis. We can’t control the wider effect. If we call some men “she” because we think they’re genuinely dysphoria, it sends a message to others too - that it’s possible to actually change sex, or that if they pretend to think that, they can get away with it,
Top guest Andrew, I'm really looking forward to this one.
I mean, yeah. I'm a husky. I have full right to be a husky, although I'm free to not get my mandatory rabies shots and am allowed to drive a car, because me being a husky doesn't abolish my human rights. Yes I passed the driving test mom -.-
Point is, nobody should be at risk of losing their job, their career, livelihood, sporting success etc for saying I'm not in fact a husky, or for being pissed I pissed in their garden. In fact, even if I am a husky, it should still be punishable if I take my pants off and take a dump in a public square. Even if I pick up.
Andrew Gold, what a wonderful interview! I am so glad and relieved that discourse CAN occur between humans who want to consider how complex and nuanced subjects situations are in this life! I was ignorant of Helen Pluckrose before this interview and am now, as has been the pattern with Heretics guests, now a fan. Thank you very much! I love your gentlemanly and intelligent manner in conducting these chats.
Male female and thatz that simple
2hole; 3hole
Thank you so much Helen for being sensible and intelligent. I was beginning to think the female world had abandoned us women, seems no one is brave enough to speak up. I do not understand what is happening….women used to stand united, now they’re too frightened to open their mouths.
Absolutely love this channel. Keep them coming!
Thank you!
I really enjoyed the discussion. I didn’t necessarily agree or disagree with any particular subject but it was good to think of things in a slightly different way. You could say it was very ‘nuanced’ 😂 but I liked it.
I love that you put FASCINATING in all caps the same way someone would put DESTROYED or EXPOSED
That fence seems mighty comfortable. That's a large number of words when you can #JustSayMen can't have our language or sex based spaces and rights.
Comfy because there's a lot of padding
I am not sure I have ever seen anyone give such wishy washy answers to questions. Contrast this with the excellent interview with Joey Barton who in my opinion was insightful and coherent.
It's quite sad when you see what should be a rational educated adult try and twist and contort the facts because they are still so desperate to be right even though they know what they are saying is utterly wrong.
Yes, it is. It's being cringe to observe I have to say.
Fabulous interview! Thank you!🥰
Helen's ideas align with Kellie Jays quite a bit, in a good way. I support them both.
Much respect, Helen!
Why the T in LGBT is a great question.
Perhaps because it seems at the root of cross sex ideation, is a great deal of internal and external trauma regarding same sex attraction?
We're so lucky to have Helen Pluckrose in this world. Wonderful informative thoughtful discussion.
I like to know if I am talking to or about a biologically born male or a biologically born female.. however they present to the world.
Is this a phobia ?
Discuss 😊
Even babies recognise a person's sex instantly. It's obvious that sex is a far more important and natural classification than inner magical gendew feelies
Not a phobia. You live in the real world where those things actually matter; regardless of the fragile feelings of those who wish/want it to be different.
what does biologically born (fe)male mean? They were (fe)male long before birth.
@@DrDeuteron Well of course yes, how observant of you.. the rest of us would never have known that when a little female baby was born she had been growing for 9 months in her mother's womb before birth... 🙄
@@shooster5884 Actually, I was politely scolding you for using the utterly [censored bad word] phrase, "biologically born female", when the correct term "female" means the exact same thing, but you had to go a different route with "im so smart" emoji.
Adhering completely to an ideology is - actually - disregarding the complexity
of the world and of society, and preferring the map to the terrain.
To criticise someone for diverging from pure ideology is...insanity.
I thought everyone hated labels or am I just showing my age!😂
I'm so glad to see Helen is speaking. She's such a brilliant and brave thinker.