Can anyone give the fact I need, and everyone wonders? If Josh knows ALL about the perfect form - how far can he throw the disc himself? And how much precision can he get on his shots? And what makes limits him from throwing further? What makes Lizotte, Wiggins etc throw further. Do they have better form than what Josh has? More throws? Muscles?
Let me stop you right there. 1. I don’t, have never, and will never claim or know “ALL about the perfect form.” If you find a coach that says they have then you should probably find another coach. I’m still a huge student of the game. 2. How far I throw or how good my form is has no bearing on my coaching ability. David Wiggins’ coach can’t throw anywhere near as far as David can. Who then would you recommend David be coached by? Someone who throws further than him? Good luck finding that guy. 3. The thing that is keeping me from throwing as far as those guys is that my form isn’t as good and I can’t move the disc as fast. Why can’t I beat Usain Bolt in the 100 meter sprint? Because his form is better and he is faster. If you “need” to know how far I throw you are starting off on the wrong foot. What you should be wondering is, “can this guy help me throw better?” My distance or accuracy doesn’t help make you throw further or more accurate. My abilities are not your abilities. Take personal responsibility and find your own faults in your game. Why aren’t YOU throwing further? Why aren’t YOU throwing more accurately? Those are the questions you should be asking if you want to improve your game. Total responsibility is what you’re lacking to elevate your game right now. I hope you will be introspective about this. Your game will be all the better. I write this for your benefit, Josh
Josh, I get this all the time. Disc Golf is such a new game, and there is only a handful of coaches that these commenters simply don't know any better. I mean... how many green jackets did Tiger Woods' coaches win?
Spin doctor!! Your vid explaining what the back foot should do as the arm comes through has helped my game so much the last couple months, keep up the awesome content!!
Warning: If you’re thinking about trying to do all of this while throwing you will die. Pick one of these ten second snippets and see if you can improve and stop thinking after that. You’re doing fine. Keep up the good work.
Finally Found the snap today!!!! Focusing on having the off arm and the throwing arm come in at the same time. Instant extra 50 feet today on my throw.
@@haydenhunt5397 It sure am. I just love to be having to add 75%-80% of power, and have a good swing. I would love to have that feeling of a good swing in 90% - but that is what separates us from the one winning the tournaments ;)
@@martinklasson1981 do what I do. Throw lighter discs and learn how to hyzerflip really well. Accuracy is king on most courses for us Ams. Practice your putting so you hit 95% of shots in the circle. Combine the two and it won't matter if you can't crush. I'm not planning to play MPO anyways 😅
I usually HATE these kinds of videos. But this was well thought out and absolutely spot on. Really enjoyed your figure skating analogy and the importance of keeping that off-hand tight. Nice! Also - to follow up and reiterate.. PROTECT YOUR KNEES FOLKS. Trust me. Nothing worse if you love disc golfing.
Really nice breakdown I've plateaued at 350 I can't get past. And it's like I watch the pros and I feel like my arms speed and everything is there and even when I see them throwing at a slower speed. Is there effortlessly throwing further so when I see them throw 300 feet and they're not moving that fast and I'm putting everything in the kitchen sink into it. And I always wanted to try slower to get that timing but I really didn't know what timing was I mean everybody said timing timing and I knew the fundamentals to get the disc into the pocket on the right tech if you're right-handed and then uncork it from there. But it was putting all those pieces together at the right time and this explained it and now I can practice being slow to get my timing thank you
I played my first round of disc golf today, and it was so much fun. But my god I am absolutely terrible at this lol. Can't wait to work on my form and see some progress. Thank you for this great video!
Best explanation of upper body timing I've ever seen. The old saying of don't pull the disc through really makes it sound like all momentum is created from the turning of the hips and shoulders
Here is my challenge to Josh. Take some dude who is throwing 250 feet and has played at least two years. A dude who is at least 35 years old and who is 5 foot 9, not a guy who is 6 foot 2 and build like Gumby. Start a video series where you work with him from the beginning, so we know it isn't just cherry picking, Show up you getting him out of his bad habits and working to get him good form. Follow him until he is hitting 325 feet regularly. Then you will have so many people taking lessons ....
@@OverthrowDiscGolfyou can take me😀 my average is 80m slight shoulder issues due to motorbike accident 48 less than a year experience. Previous golfer and figure wise same like you.
No idea why I don't ever see you guys come up when I search for beginner tips, only found you thanks to Robbie C. I only discovered you guys yesterday and I have so much to think about when I go out for a round today!
Wow, I am loving the breakdown in this video. I've been playing ultimate for almost a decade and disc golf only for a few months, and I've just been winging it on my walk ups trying to mimic my friends and what I see online in full speed. The ultimate background causes me to naturally want to step out more perpendicular to the throw (as if there is still a defender guarding me), and even though I knew disc golf drives require a straighter pull through the body I never could make the footwork match it. I've paused this video a few times already to walk through these motions in my room. I've very excited to get to a field and start putting this into practice. Thank you!
I'd really like to see you rip one out there at the end of every video. Put it all together and let one fly! Great video though. I finally cracked 400' a couple weeks ago (422'). Now if I could just do that all the time I'd be set lol.
One of the shorts recently helped me with this. I watched it mid-round and felt a difference. Moving forward through the shot (focusing on brace and deep pocket) rather than around (rotation of shoulders/hips) helped almost instantaneously. The motion is forward, not around, even though the body is coiling and uncoiling. Makes sense in my head, anyway. Thanks, dudes! Killer content, as always!
Thank you. I've been getting worse at putting out in the wild despite practicing inside a bunch. I'm also an alcoholic and have a hard time with consistency. Anyways, thanks. You're voice is very soothing i like hearing you talk😊
I played from 2005 to 2010-ish drunk the whole time. I eventually got frustrated because i couldn't improve my game, and started playing sober in the morning which helped some. Eventually i got so bad into addiction i quit playing entirely. I got clean in 2016 and played casually a little. Last fall i had a scary health situation with my legs, and once i could walk again i picked my bag back up. Now, im determined to actually really improve my game, and its really cool because there was almost NOTHING instructional for free back in the day. There's so much now, its amazing. I use the free stuff and buy my gear and discs from the folks i learn from or appreciate their content. I love where the sport has gone, and i think there is a large amount of folks in recovery who play too. I hope that, if you want to get sober, you can brother, it improves literally everything for guys like us. I hope you can improve your game too man. Stay safe and have fun!!!
3:18 Like a ballerina compressing into the center line enabling up to 13 spins in a second, the weight shift initiates torque spin while the arm is still extended, this multiplies the speed of the arm, if the arm moves at the same time the shifting and compressing and arm movement can actually cancel each other out. It's the same in martial arts you have to move your hips and flux your knees towards each and flux your knees towards each other , feet to knees to hips to waist before engaging the arm movement. Once the chain is recognized you can once the chain is recognized THEN you can make it's like one spiral movement through the body
That’s Gold, Jerry! Seriously, I started to stumble back into this last week. Been working on my backhand and was averaging around 270. I slowed everything way down during field work to try to focus on not pulling my head around early and magically started throwing around 300 consistently. I’m convinced it was exactly what you described. I finally slowed down long enough to get into that deep pocket with shoulders still closed. I lost it a bit during my round the next day, but I know what it’s supposed to feel like now.
I had so much stuff I was going to gladly address after watching the form review livestream and then the recap...this video challenges so much more of my amateur logic. Its awesome. Thanks OT!
Your videos have always been helpful , but it seems like on the last month or so , something clicked for you in the way you teach and these last few videos feel like your talking directly to me , first off thank you for taking the time to do these amazing videos , everytime I watch I feel like I unlock something new . This time I realized I was holding the disc at what I thought was the power pocket at my left pec and stressing to keep my elbow out directly infront of my right , now seeing the figure skater analogy i can come together much tighter and then let my body open up , increased my power by an insane anount , can’t wait to join your patreon and get some 1on1 , Ty for all that you do and please keep it up
Josh! I threw 330 AND straight today! Ive been busting my ass off over the last two years since i started. Ive watched this video multiple times, but it finally clicked today. The best i usually do is around 270 and it hyzers out. Your advice about bringing it closer to the chest changed everything. I seriously wanted to shed a tear today because it finally clicked. Now.... To see if i can replicate it tomorrow... Lol Thank you.
Hey Josh! Thanks for the video. A number of your videos have helped my game & I like how you’re willing to evolve/change your teaching as you learn more. I was confused by what I think is a slight contradiction. In the foot work section you talk about transferring weight into the brace leg. You show the “off” hand coming in to your body and transferring weight to the brace leg. You then say that weight & pressure should all get to the front BEFORE we start swinging the disc forward. (3:32) Then you teach getting the disc to the front pec when getting “tight” and bringing the arms in. (6:40) So at 3:32 the disc is still back when bringing the off arm and weight in and at 6:40 the disc is up at the front pec and we are taught it should happen together. I grabbed my buzzzz and was working on this in my living room bc as you say in the open-the sequence and timing are crucial. After trying both ways. I’m gonna go back to my baseball training. I love the 3:32 teaching. I like the weight, hips, off hand all crashing forward to into the brace and then the disc arm, elbow, disc flying through following the hips and weight transfer. My batting coach taught step onto the front foot, brace leg and hips and weight fire, and hands & bat follow. Hope this post makes sense
Josh this is maybe the best video you've done so far. Something I'd personally like to see you demonstrate and talk about is disc weight. I started playing disc golf 2 years ago at the age of 59. I just recently broke 300ft on a drive. I did it with a Innova Katana that weighs in at 141gs. That's a 13 speed driver. I acquired this disc by one of my kids leaving it in my garage. Since starting to play regularly I've purchased many discs not knowing a lot about them. Just going by recommendations from friends, family and videos. All my other discs weigh around 173gs. I have just been guessing on disc weight when purchasing them. Still trying to figure it all out. How does a person determine arm speed? I think I have a pretty good arm for 61, but I have no idea how fast I throw. I love the journey I'm on learning disc golf and all that it in tales. So, I guess my biggest question is how does one determine the correct weight of disc to use? Keep the videos coming I love them all.
If your furthest throw is 300ft (congrats btw!) a speed 13 is likely significantly too fast for you. Generally the "rule of 35" is used to determine the max speed of your disc. Take the *average* distance of your shots and divide by 35. So say if you average 250ft, you'd typically want to stick with a speed 7 disc (250/35=~7) for throwing max weighted discs (~170g-180g) fast enough to fully utilize their intended flight. Hope this helps, good luck out there!
Arm speed can be tricky to measure. When I throw 300 ft. It's about 40mph arm speed. One way you can measure arm speed is to have someone record you in slow motion, throwing behind 2 objects like a goal post? Measure the distance eg 6 m. Watch the video back and count how many frames there are. eg 80 frames. If the frame rate is 240 f/s, the time to throw the 6m goal post distance would be 80/240=1/3s 6m divide by 1/3s =18m/s disc speed with is about 40mph 😊
Hey man! I want to let you know that your videos, and your style of education in this subject matter has fully influenced a friend of mine that has credited you with helping him with his form and game. I’ve been playing a lot longer than my friend, but I’m learning more from him than ever before. I am accurate in the woods with tight lines, but have never developed a drive more than 340 to be honest. I love your content and appreciate the passion you’ve got for this sport we love man. Thank you for you dedication
Hey Josh, I just want to thank you so much for putting out this video today. It's very "timely" in that I've had this issue and a lot of what you're saying here speaks to it. I've been reaching back too early, so before my plant foot's toe even hit the ground, I was at peak extension with my throwing arm. So by the time the balls of my feet hit the ground, I was already starting to move the fully-extended throwing arm forward. The funny thing is, I think this was in part a way to combat rounding. I was trying to pull the elbow early and get that throw going before my shoulders could turn, and then impinge the shoulder of my throwing arm. I was definitely uncoiling before I planted. And with my elbow leading my shoulders, I wasn't allowing energy to transfer upwards from my hip to shoulder to arm. The timing problem affects a lot more than just order of operations. A lot of things break down, overall, because of it. I think the key of extending the arms is right after the release of the disc, and not before. I've been watching a lot of pros and their upper arm is practically in that 90 degree angle from the peak of the backswing/reachback/extension, through the power pocket, and right about when the disc is releasing from their hands, I see the throwing arm practically catapult outward. Rota Disc Golf has a Form Comparison page on their site where they show a lot of pros side by side at certain positions (X-Step, Reachback, Power Pocket, Brace, Release) where you can see when the similarities converge (from the peak of the reachback to the power pocket is when everything comes together).
Something that has made my game better is talked about at 10:00. It's often times hard to commit to a shot you aren't looking at. However, in order to do things correctly and keep your shoulders closed until the right moment, you have to throw to the "right". Every time I step up to a drive, I do one practice swing where I keep my shoulders closed to remind myself not to open them. I'm still working on it, but I'm feeling much better about my drives this year. Also that Ezra impression at 11:28 was so damn good.
Hey, great video I have been working on and redoing my form and can’t seem to break about 380. I’ve changed everything I can think of it feels like but I think my timing needs work. Thanks for the advice!
Hey, been watching you and DG Spin Doctor for a while now and i finally figured out the brace. I was trying everything to fix it and nothing worked untill Jaani told me about the same brace timing as you go trought your video, so dont start the throw before you planted all weight on your front leg, doing that my brace actually works. And i was doing exactly what you say that most people doing it wrong by starting to throw when the feet touches the ground. I have been trying to fix the brace for atleast 3 years and this 1 tip did everything to me. thanks :)
I appreciate you for caring so much about my game. If you're ever in SE Michigan, I'd like to have a session with me and my kids. We've got a few hidden gem courses here.
Big fan of your coaching and the channel. The one thing i dont get is the "deep pocket". I find a lot more consistent distance when my disc is timed to start the ejection when it hits my left pec. Ezra Aderhold is a prime example of what im talking about
I really like this video, I definitely did not have my timing correct. I went back to just a step throw because my x-step just wasn't working. I've noticed I've had some very good throws but not sure what it was exactly, and i think it was the timing was perfect, so i was getting 300+ foot throws with just a step throw, or a weight shift throw i guess? Not sure if that is what they call a standstill where you just shift your weight lol. I definitely was not getting my hand through fast enough, and i noticed i didn't have a follow through, just stopped my arm/upper body after i let go of the disc.
Hey guys awesome video! Quick question I have the common brace timing error that you spoke of in the video, but I’m having the absolute hardest time actually getting my body to commit to it. Are there any drills I should incorporate to help?
try something heavier that is not a 170g disc. Like throwing a stone, a stick in a similar manner. Notice the sequence body takes care of the timing naturally. (one of the problem is that disc is so light compared to other sports that u need to train your body using heavier objects - once you get the feel - transfer it to your arm and the disc).
Something I heard recently that I think would have had me grasp the concept of the brace leg when I first started playing and correcting my form was "imagine the tee-pad is the edge of a cliff, and your brace/pivot is what will keep you from falling off." So for me, if my weight AND pull through is all moving forward onto my brace foot at the same time than my momentum will continue forward off of the cliff but if my weight is mostly on my back leg during my reach back and I stomp that brace foot down, than pull through, and pivot, it will keep my momentum lagging and centered leaving me squared to the cliff to keep from falling.
Just this video gave me 80 feet Day 1 of practicing, going from around 300 feet ”controlled” to 3x throws in a row at 380 feet without much warmup other than getting a putter 300 feet instead! (Averaging around 270) And all i needed to do was to slooow down. Not ”overrotate” in my coil (going backwards) and not rush the throw (thinking follow through look cool) and pulling before even planting. Best videos on form, best explanations. No doubt (video your form folks!)
Brace timing is / was my biggest issue - very helpful explanation here from you! I didn't understand the part about "Amateur Timing Problem" though. Why is it bad when the throwing hand lags too much? (You talk about bringing the back shoulder in too quickly). Could you go more in depth on this part maybe? Thank you :)
Great teaching and very clear. I appreciated that you don't start your video with 'like & subscribe' and let the quality of your instructional influence those things on their own before I made my mind up to anyways after seeing the quality. I will have to watch this again and again to work on each small component 1 at a time; thanks!
To me, brace timing explained at 3:35 is contradicting the ice skating tuck at 6:35. This is my biggest issue in my own form. Can we get this elaborated on? :)
@shakswimm I agree with you but the timing to me is unclear. At 3:35 it looks like to me that Josh drives the offhnad into the brace and waits with the driving arm until fully braced. At 6:35, it looks like he swings both arms into the brace, which is stated at 3:35 that you should not do.
I think the brace actually needs to be a brace. I agree having zero movement in your brace knee is a bad thing, you could seriously hurt yourself doing that. But you also don't want your front knee and front foot swinging like a barn door either.
I cannot speak highly enough about throwing slowly. I have been out in the fields the past few months using barely any of my hobbyist power. A year ago I was only able to throw around 300ft at 100% power, and since slowing it down and focusing on the hit, I can get 300ft with significantly less than 100% power.
I found this video helpful. I'm starting to really work on my form. However, I found myself really wanting a few full throws on the part of the presenter. If he could add like 3-5 throws putting together at the end, that would be really helpful. The way it is, it's like 400 1 second clips put together (of the actual portion of the throws) and it's hard to visualize it all as one flush movement. Thanks!
Very helpful video, i didnt even realize that my shoulders followed thru just a tiny bit to early. Hopefully this will ge me a little closer to 500 feet consistently. Im at about 450 right now.
One that I would really love for you to cover. Backhand. I feel as though I have a difficult time Changing my pivot style on the brace foot. I would like it to finish a little more like Anthony Barela, where he rolls up to plantar flexion and engages the brace foot calf or the left knee comes up and hip flexion
Really appreciate this video. However! Honest question (not a 'gotcha.') I am having trouble reconciling what is being said at 3:50 (stating that it is critical that weight shifts into the brace before the right arm starts coming forward) with what is happening at 6:38 ('both arms are coming in, tight to the body together,' and they are demonstrated doing so simultaneously, and as a part of, the weight shifting in to the brace). My understanding is that ideally the right heel should be on the ground and the weight forward before the right (and left?) arm swings forward. So are the arms at 6:38 a little early, or am I missing something?
Hi, I've been trying to learn the throwing form by watching different technique videos. But the difficulty for me is to kind of understand how the whole throwing motion goes and what muscles do you use to really power the throw. By watching a lot of videos, so many of them are focusing on the use of the legs, arm and the weight shift etc. I understand those things are very important to the throw. I used to think that the most power you can get into the throw would be from body rotation, like using the core and back muscles. But by watching a lot of technique videos I have got the mental image that you don't rotate that powerfully after all, and that I'm chucking the disc forward by trying to whip it before follow through. Now I'm just kind of confused and pretty lost with my own form, and I feel my throwing is just stuck in a bad place. I'm sorry if this came out too negative I'm just frustrated at myself the most, because I don't understand how to apply the good stuff people try to teach.
Loved the Robbie C moment at 0:53 One question. It looks like you have the wrist cocked pretty far in the "deep pocket". Is that critical or just to provide extra spin? Thanks for all you do!
Thank you sir, question... I've always followed the 90 degree rules of the upper arm, elbow and lower arm and the upper arm, shoulder and collar bone I guess? BOX, so my understanding was at release point, roughly 2PM, that I should be straight arm but the upper arm and chest still be at 90. Watching through this it looks like some of those 90 degree rules aren't necessary. Moving to the right pec opens the should up and extending out would further do so it seems, putting the shoulder at something like 120 degrees at release with my shoulders parallel to the target.... am I in the right ballpark with that thinking?
I have a quick question I hope you can answer. When you get toward the end of your throw, right after you get into the 'power pocket' and you're completely tucked in, is your first movement from that point to extend your forearm out from the elbow or do you just focus on throwing your arm around your body as fast as possible?
The arm is the passenger (crash test dummy) without a seatbelt that goes flying through the window after car hits immovable object (the brace) head-on. Since the arm is without seat belt, it has no where to go but forward.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Thanks for your response! I really feel like I'm misunderstanding something fundamental about this part of the throw and I can't seem to find a good video that focuses on it specifically. I gather that I should stop my head at that point and let my arm go past then its force will naturally force my head to follow with good timing (please correct that if I'm missing something) but should my forearm just naturally extend from the centrifugal force or should I be putting any strength into extending it manually and, if so, what should the timing be like?
Great Video. I noticed my timing on the lower body and upper body are both off. But its hard to work on both at the same time. So which one do you recommend working on first?
In my opinion the early non-throwing arm movement is misleading, simply because the movement of the arm itself is not the point. The purpose of the arm movement is in my opinion the protraction of the shoulder. Protraction of the shoulders creates tension in the upper back muscles across the shoulder girdle, which prevents any possibility of collapsing the throwing arm into the chest, i.e. rounding. Moving the arm is a tool to aid the shoulder protraction, and what works best could be individual. Moving the arm in front of the body (the "double move") pretty much ensures protraction, which might be why some get good results. Pushing the arm down by the side, which is also common, is possible to do without protraction. To ensure the shoulder protraction, it is also possible to keep the shoulders protracted throughout the whole movement. I suspect that doing the protraction right before the throw adds an element of myotactic reflex for added power. Personally I would not completely rule out that the off arm movement, or rather the shoulder moving forward, can also be used to add some rotational power by advanced throwers. Most of the rotation, or perhaps rather coil and uncoil, probably comes from the oblique slings though.
I appreciate a lot this video and the tips in it. But about power pocket: in many video, including Ezra's, they tuck the disc in the RIGHT pocket, in order to have arm and upper arm at 90°. Why here LEFT pocket should be the correct one? I can try, but seems to activate disc-pulling, instead of body rotation. Or are we saying to rotate more the wrist in order to be closer to LEFT pocket, but keeping the arm and upper arm at 90?
5:54 You are showing physically moving the disc back, but everything I have seen is that the disc stays in place as your body moves past it. Can you comment? Thanks.
My point is that if you don’t mention that while teaching a new skill, people who watch the video and try to incorporate the lessons may think they have to thrust the disc backward, which would not be good. I would have mentioned this to prevent misunderstanding from those trying to learn how to throw. That’s all.
@@skeller61 I can’t mention everything all the time. This video was originally 30 minutes long and I had to keep telling myself “this isn’t a mechanics video” because it’s very easy to stray from the topic. There are a bunch of things I would love to mention, but can’t without making an hour and a half long video
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I understand. I’m not trying to attack you, but to make sure people don’t get the wrong idea that you should, at that point in the throw, push the disc back with your hand. If I was a newbie, I might get confused by this. No need to respond. Thanks for putting out videos to help others.
Should we be turning on our back foot or front foot? And shouldn’t the hips be in front of the shoulders when uncoiling to create that whip like motion?
Quick question… Should your brace leg be completely straight when fully braced? I have a hard time doing that, might be a flexibility issue? I feel in general that my hips and brace are horrible, and it’s very unnatural for me to “slide” into the brace. My hips and shoulders want to rotate the millisecond my throwing arm starts moving forward. Even just doing in slow motion, I feel pain in back leg knee when trying to do more of a proper slide… 😞
I think I have the flexibility to let my back leg point a bit backwards. Is what you mention more of the it's okay but it won't benefit me or more of the I can do it, I have potential to gain 30 more feet of power just by turning my leg a little backwards? Of course with my form it wouldn't make a world of difference in extra distance, but at least I wouldn't have to consciously keep avoiding it when drilling.
Hey! Dont know if you still get to these comments on old videos but I have a question on the "Pocket". When I watch slow mo videos of the pros, most of their shoulders or chest is wide open at release. This kind of combats what I am understanding in this video. It seems that when I try to get to the pocket and not open as quickly, I muscle the disc. Do you have any thoughts on how I can understand this concept better?
Most pros are between 8-18 degrees open at release. So baaaaarely open. There are a few exceptions of course. But we have a video we’ll be recording soon on it.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf thanks for the quick reply! So when you are getting the disc to the right pec, are you focusing more on pulling your elbow into that spot, and then pulling through faster at release to get ahead of your shoulders, or is it more collapsing your forearm into that sweet spot and letting rotation fling it from your hand? I think that’s where I’m getting held up and using too much arm?
@@Crackalackiin you can’t really use too much arm. You can only make it easier for your arm to move more efficiently. The arm needs to pass the body (fairly linearly). The timing makes it feel more or less “muscled.”
I saw someone comment awhile back about throwing uphill or downhill. Or throwing from a side hill lie. Did you already cover this and i missed it? I'm very curious.
Is it a good "drill" just to walk the steps of this motion slowly with a disc in hand over and over again? I'm comfortable with 340 ft drives, but I know for a fact that almost every part of my timing is incorrect and I want to fix it, not only so I can throw further, but also so my 300 foot throws feel effortless and more accurate.
Being in martial arts for 50 years I have trouble pivoting on the heal. We are accustomed to our balance on the balls of our feet. I am very flex able so I can still have a good reach back and balance. Will my mental hard wired balance be an issue?
I have / had the same issue and I'll share what I know: Balls of the feet make for a good, athletic stance that is quick and balanced (for almost every sport or activity, I'm from marching band where you need to be on the balls of your feet as well), and being on the balls of your feet is good for the backhand form. What I do / have heard is that when you plant your brace foot down, you can still plant on the balls of your foot, but the weight shift should drive your heel into the ground. Once the weight is on your heel, it drives your leg into the hips and gives rotation, and you can also follow through on the heel. My take is that you should stay on the balls of your feet, but on the plant step, after the ball of your foot touches the ground, try to drive your heel into the ground to push up on your leg into your hips, and the pivot on the heel will happen naturally. Also, if you drive the ball of your foot into the ground on the brace, your knee catches most of the weight which is bad for your knee. If you drive your heel in the ground then it goes up through your leg into your hips and it is safe for the knee.
The trick is to not use your arm at all Your body momentun and turn timed with a loose reachback the arm will whip by itself abd the natural thing is you grip tight at the last second. Its all about the loose whip and grip.
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Can anyone give the fact I need, and everyone wonders?
If Josh knows ALL about the perfect form - how far can he throw the disc himself? And how much precision can he get on his shots? And what makes limits him from throwing further? What makes Lizotte, Wiggins etc throw further. Do they have better form than what Josh has? More throws? Muscles?
Let me stop you right there.
1. I don’t, have never, and will never claim or know “ALL about the perfect form.” If you find a coach that says they have then you should probably find another coach. I’m still a huge student of the game.
2. How far I throw or how good my form is has no bearing on my coaching ability. David Wiggins’ coach can’t throw anywhere near as far as David can. Who then would you recommend David be coached by? Someone who throws further than him? Good luck finding that guy.
3. The thing that is keeping me from throwing as far as those guys is that my form isn’t as good and I can’t move the disc as fast. Why can’t I beat Usain Bolt in the 100 meter sprint? Because his form is better and he is faster.
If you “need” to know how far I throw you are starting off on the wrong foot. What you should be wondering is, “can this guy help me throw better?” My distance or accuracy doesn’t help make you throw further or more accurate. My abilities are not your abilities. Take personal responsibility and find your own faults in your game. Why aren’t YOU throwing further? Why aren’t YOU throwing more accurately? Those are the questions you should be asking if you want to improve your game. Total responsibility is what you’re lacking to elevate your game right now.
I hope you will be introspective about this. Your game will be all the better.
I write this for your benefit,
Josh
Josh, I get this all the time. Disc Golf is such a new game, and there is only a handful of coaches that these commenters simply don't know any better. I mean... how many green jackets did Tiger Woods' coaches win?
@@dgspindoctor right. I usually don’t respond but decided to this time. Wrote for his benefit but pinned for others.
My ego is too inflated to take it like you. I go and huck that KC Roc 430' just to show I can throw better than them. Small mind, big distance.
@@dgspindoctor well, if I could throw a KC Roc 430’ it might be a different story lol
Loving this new philosophy of letting the body do what it knows, not controlling the minutiae. I can relate :)
Spin doctor!! Your vid explaining what the back foot should do as the arm comes through has helped my game so much the last couple months, keep up the awesome content!!
@@NutrigrainHulk Thanks! I have a lot of topics to talk about, so this summer you'll have plenty of videos to watch.
Spin Doctor for the win!
As my dad always said, "it's trash can not trash can't". Thank you for this
Honestly, I'm most impressed by the weight loss. It's great to see you achieving your goals!
I thought he was looking slimmer!
Came to comments to say this. You’re looking great bro. Keep it up.
Warning: If you’re thinking about trying to do all of this while throwing you will die. Pick one of these ten second snippets and see if you can improve and stop thinking after that. You’re doing fine. Keep up the good work.
Finally Found the snap today!!!! Focusing on having the off arm and the throwing arm come in at the same time. Instant extra 50 feet today on my throw.
I think the biggest thing Ive leaned this year is to not rush any parts of my shot. I'm throwing further just by slowing down.
slow is smooth, and smooth is far
@@haydenhunt5397 It sure am. I just love to be having to add 75%-80% of power, and have a good swing.
I would love to have that feeling of a good swing in 90% - but that is what separates us from the one winning the tournaments ;)
@@martinklasson1981 do what I do. Throw lighter discs and learn how to hyzerflip really well. Accuracy is king on most courses for us Ams. Practice your putting so you hit 95% of shots in the circle. Combine the two and it won't matter if you can't crush. I'm not planning to play MPO anyways 😅
by far the best instructional video yet - from anyone - keep up the good work
I usually HATE these kinds of videos. But this was well thought out and absolutely spot on. Really enjoyed your figure skating analogy and the importance of keeping that off-hand tight. Nice!
Also - to follow up and reiterate.. PROTECT YOUR KNEES FOLKS. Trust me. Nothing worse if you love disc golfing.
Really nice breakdown I've plateaued at 350 I can't get past. And it's like I watch the pros and I feel like my arms speed and everything is there and even when I see them throwing at a slower speed. Is there effortlessly throwing further so when I see them throw 300 feet and they're not moving that fast and I'm putting everything in the kitchen sink into it. And I always wanted to try slower to get that timing but I really didn't know what timing was I mean everybody said timing timing and I knew the fundamentals to get the disc into the pocket on the right tech if you're right-handed and then uncork it from there. But it was putting all those pieces together at the right time and this explained it and now I can practice being slow to get my timing thank you
This is THE video on timing. I'll be recommending this to many players.
Saw this before but it took me a year of training and tinkering to understand it. It is great.
I played my first round of disc golf today, and it was so much fun. But my god I am absolutely terrible at this lol. Can't wait to work on my form and see some progress. Thank you for this great video!
Best explanation of upper body timing I've ever seen. The old saying of don't pull the disc through really makes it sound like all momentum is created from the turning of the hips and shoulders
Here is my challenge to Josh. Take some dude who is throwing 250 feet and has played at least two years. A dude who is at least 35 years old and who is 5 foot 9, not a guy who is 6 foot 2 and build like Gumby. Start a video series where you work with him from the beginning, so we know it isn't just cherry picking, Show up you getting him out of his bad habits and working to get him good form. Follow him until he is hitting 325 feet regularly. Then you will have so many people taking lessons ....
Don’t need more people taking lessons but a good idea anyways
@@OverthrowDiscGolf It would be highly inspiring for folks like me...
@@OverthrowDiscGolfyou can take me😀 my average is 80m slight shoulder issues due to motorbike accident 48 less than a year experience. Previous golfer and figure wise same like you.
I'm 32 with short arms.
Let's go!
I mean I’m 34…..
I love the ending tips. It is a daunting task to fix our form. Hopefully i can make it to the power pocket and go from there.
No idea why I don't ever see you guys come up when I search for beginner tips, only found you thanks to Robbie C. I only discovered you guys yesterday and I have so much to think about when I go out for a round today!
Wow, I am loving the breakdown in this video. I've been playing ultimate for almost a decade and disc golf only for a few months, and I've just been winging it on my walk ups trying to mimic my friends and what I see online in full speed. The ultimate background causes me to naturally want to step out more perpendicular to the throw (as if there is still a defender guarding me), and even though I knew disc golf drives require a straighter pull through the body I never could make the footwork match it. I've paused this video a few times already to walk through these motions in my room. I've very excited to get to a field and start putting this into practice. Thank you!
I'd really like to see you rip one out there at the end of every video. Put it all together and let one fly! Great video though. I finally cracked 400' a couple weeks ago (422'). Now if I could just do that all the time I'd be set lol.
One of the shorts recently helped me with this. I watched it mid-round and felt a difference. Moving forward through the shot (focusing on brace and deep pocket) rather than around (rotation of shoulders/hips) helped almost instantaneously. The motion is forward, not around, even though the body is coiling and uncoiling. Makes sense in my head, anyway.
Thanks, dudes! Killer content, as always!
I like this explanation. Thank you, Jonathan!
I think this is my favorite video of yours. WELL DONE GUYS!
Thank you. I've been getting worse at putting out in the wild despite practicing inside a bunch. I'm also an alcoholic and have a hard time with consistency.
Anyways, thanks. You're voice is very soothing i like hearing you talk😊
I played from 2005 to 2010-ish drunk the whole time. I eventually got frustrated because i couldn't improve my game, and started playing sober in the morning which helped some.
Eventually i got so bad into addiction i quit playing entirely. I got clean in 2016 and played casually a little.
Last fall i had a scary health situation with my legs, and once i could walk again i picked my bag back up. Now, im determined to actually really improve my game, and its really cool because there was almost NOTHING instructional for free back in the day. There's so much now, its amazing. I use the free stuff and buy my gear and discs from the folks i learn from or appreciate their content.
I love where the sport has gone, and i think there is a large amount of folks in recovery who play too.
I hope that, if you want to get sober, you can brother, it improves literally everything for guys like us. I hope you can improve your game too man. Stay safe and have fun!!!
wow wow WOW! best explanation of the dynamics of the mechanics of the throw. EXCELLENT and thanks!
Excellent video. I need to be reminded about this over and over.
3:18 Like a ballerina compressing into the center line enabling up to 13 spins in a second, the weight shift initiates torque spin while the arm is still extended, this multiplies the speed of the arm, if the arm moves at the same time the shifting and compressing and arm movement can actually cancel each other out. It's the same in martial arts you have to move your hips and flux your knees towards each and flux your knees towards each other , feet to knees to hips to waist before engaging the arm movement. Once the chain is recognized you can once the chain is recognized THEN you can make it's like one spiral movement through the body
Great read
That’s Gold, Jerry! Seriously, I started to stumble back into this last week. Been working on my backhand and was averaging around 270. I slowed everything way down during field work to try to focus on not pulling my head around early and magically started throwing around 300 consistently. I’m convinced it was exactly what you described. I finally slowed down long enough to get into that deep pocket with shoulders still closed. I lost it a bit during my round the next day, but I know what it’s supposed to feel like now.
I had so much stuff I was going to gladly address after watching the form review livestream and then the recap...this video challenges so much more of my amateur logic. Its awesome. Thanks OT!
Great videos! Some people are just better at explaining things , sir you are one of them ! Thanks for your effort to help us mortals
Your videos have always been helpful , but it seems like on the last month or so , something clicked for you in the way you teach and these last few videos feel like your talking directly to me , first off thank you for taking the time to do these amazing videos , everytime I watch I feel like I unlock something new . This time I realized I was holding the disc at what I thought was the power pocket at my left pec and stressing to keep my elbow out directly infront of my right , now seeing the figure skater analogy i can come together much tighter and then let my body open up , increased my power by an insane anount , can’t wait to join your patreon and get some 1on1 , Ty for all that you do and please keep it up
Josh! I threw 330 AND straight today! Ive been busting my ass off over the last two years since i started. Ive watched this video multiple times, but it finally clicked today. The best i usually do is around 270 and it hyzers out. Your advice about bringing it closer to the chest changed everything. I seriously wanted to shed a tear today because it finally clicked. Now.... To see if i can replicate it tomorrow... Lol Thank you.
Congrats! Even if it doesn’t click tomorrow at least you’ve done it once which means you can do it again
Hey Josh! Thanks for the video. A number of your videos have helped my game & I like how you’re willing to evolve/change your teaching as you learn more.
I was confused by what I think is a slight contradiction. In the foot work section you talk about transferring weight into the brace leg. You show the “off” hand coming in to your body and transferring weight to the brace leg. You then say that weight & pressure should all get to the front BEFORE we start swinging the disc forward. (3:32)
Then you teach getting the disc to the front pec when getting “tight” and bringing the arms in. (6:40)
So at 3:32 the disc is still back when bringing the off arm and weight in and at 6:40 the disc is up at the front pec and we are taught it should happen together.
I grabbed my buzzzz and was working on this in my living room bc as you say in the open-the sequence and timing are crucial.
After trying both ways. I’m gonna go back to my baseball training.
I love the 3:32 teaching. I like the weight, hips, off hand all crashing forward to into the brace and then the disc arm, elbow, disc flying through following the hips and weight transfer.
My batting coach taught step onto the front foot, brace leg and hips and weight fire, and hands & bat follow.
Hope this post makes sense
The hand outpacing the shoulders feels like a lightbulb moment for me, hope it will translate in the field.
Josh this is maybe the best video you've done so far. Something I'd personally like to see you demonstrate and talk about is disc weight. I started playing disc golf 2 years ago at the age of 59. I just recently broke 300ft on a drive. I did it with a Innova Katana that weighs in at 141gs. That's a 13 speed driver. I acquired this disc by one of my kids leaving it in my garage. Since starting to play regularly I've purchased many discs not knowing a lot about them. Just going by recommendations from friends, family and videos. All my other discs weigh around 173gs. I have just been guessing on disc weight when purchasing them. Still trying to figure it all out. How does a person determine arm speed? I think I have a pretty good arm for 61, but I have no idea how fast I throw. I love the journey I'm on learning disc golf and all that it in tales. So, I guess my biggest question is how does one determine the correct weight of disc to use? Keep the videos coming I love them all.
If your furthest throw is 300ft (congrats btw!) a speed 13 is likely significantly too fast for you. Generally the "rule of 35" is used to determine the max speed of your disc. Take the *average* distance of your shots and divide by 35. So say if you average 250ft, you'd typically want to stick with a speed 7 disc (250/35=~7) for throwing max weighted discs (~170g-180g) fast enough to fully utilize their intended flight. Hope this helps, good luck out there!
Arm speed can be tricky to measure. When I throw 300 ft. It's about 40mph arm speed.
One way you can measure arm speed is to have someone record you in slow motion, throwing behind 2 objects like a goal post? Measure the distance eg 6 m. Watch the video back and count how many frames there are. eg 80 frames. If the frame rate is 240 f/s, the time to throw the 6m goal post distance would be 80/240=1/3s
6m divide by 1/3s =18m/s disc speed with is about 40mph 😊
Hey man! I want to let you know that your videos, and your style of education in this subject matter has fully influenced a friend of mine that has credited you with helping him with his form and game. I’ve been playing a lot longer than my friend, but I’m learning more from him than ever before. I am accurate in the woods with tight lines, but have never developed a drive more than 340 to be honest. I love your content and appreciate the passion you’ve got for this sport we love man.
Thank you for you dedication
Appreciate you brother
Your videos really help! Thanks so much for taking time to do this!
Hey Josh, I just want to thank you so much for putting out this video today. It's very "timely" in that I've had this issue and a lot of what you're saying here speaks to it. I've been reaching back too early, so before my plant foot's toe even hit the ground, I was at peak extension with my throwing arm. So by the time the balls of my feet hit the ground, I was already starting to move the fully-extended throwing arm forward.
The funny thing is, I think this was in part a way to combat rounding. I was trying to pull the elbow early and get that throw going before my shoulders could turn, and then impinge the shoulder of my throwing arm. I was definitely uncoiling before I planted. And with my elbow leading my shoulders, I wasn't allowing energy to transfer upwards from my hip to shoulder to arm. The timing problem affects a lot more than just order of operations. A lot of things break down, overall, because of it.
I think the key of extending the arms is right after the release of the disc, and not before. I've been watching a lot of pros and their upper arm is practically in that 90 degree angle from the peak of the backswing/reachback/extension, through the power pocket, and right about when the disc is releasing from their hands, I see the throwing arm practically catapult outward.
Rota Disc Golf has a Form Comparison page on their site where they show a lot of pros side by side at certain positions (X-Step, Reachback, Power Pocket, Brace, Release) where you can see when the similarities converge (from the peak of the reachback to the power pocket is when everything comes together).
Something that has made my game better is talked about at 10:00. It's often times hard to commit to a shot you aren't looking at. However, in order to do things correctly and keep your shoulders closed until the right moment, you have to throw to the "right". Every time I step up to a drive, I do one practice swing where I keep my shoulders closed to remind myself not to open them. I'm still working on it, but I'm feeling much better about my drives this year.
Also that Ezra impression at 11:28 was so damn good.
Hey, great video I have been working on and redoing my form and can’t seem to break about 380. I’ve changed everything I can think of it feels like but I think my timing needs work. Thanks for the advice!
Hey, been watching you and DG Spin Doctor for a while now and i finally figured out the brace. I was trying everything to fix it and nothing worked untill Jaani told me about the same brace timing as you go trought your video, so dont start the throw before you planted all weight on your front leg, doing that my brace actually works. And i was doing exactly what you say that most people doing it wrong by starting to throw when the feet touches the ground. I have been trying to fix the brace for atleast 3 years and this 1 tip did everything to me. thanks :)
I appreciate you for caring so much about my game. If you're ever in SE Michigan, I'd like to have a session with me and my kids. We've got a few hidden gem courses here.
Glad i saw this on my feed again and watched it a second time. Great stuff
I really like the way this was explained. Very nice. Thank you. My favorite part was the caterpillar I think though.
Amazing video ! Thank you so much for taking the time
I’m gonna need to watch this like 3 more times and actually take notes.
Haha! I do that queso joke too! First time I've heard someone else do it! I always picture some queso like the snippet here! Glad I watched.
Mikey, my knee is thanking you for your request to have Josh clarify how to properly brace. Josh thank you for explaining it.
Big fan of your coaching and the channel. The one thing i dont get is the "deep pocket". I find a lot more consistent distance when my disc is timed to start the ejection when it hits my left pec. Ezra Aderhold is a prime example of what im talking about
I've seen a lot of videos and this one was the best explained
I really like this video, I definitely did not have my timing correct. I went back to just a step throw because my x-step just wasn't working. I've noticed I've had some very good throws but not sure what it was exactly, and i think it was the timing was perfect, so i was getting 300+ foot throws with just a step throw, or a weight shift throw i guess? Not sure if that is what they call a standstill where you just shift your weight lol. I definitely was not getting my hand through fast enough, and i noticed i didn't have a follow through, just stopped my arm/upper body after i let go of the disc.
Great Robbie C style filmography in the beginning.
Hey guys awesome video! Quick question I have the common brace timing error that you spoke of in the video, but I’m having the absolute hardest time actually getting my body to commit to it. Are there any drills I should incorporate to help?
try something heavier that is not a 170g disc. Like throwing a stone, a stick in a similar manner. Notice the sequence body takes care of the timing naturally. (one of the problem is that disc is so light compared to other sports that u need to train your body using heavier objects - once you get the feel - transfer it to your arm and the disc).
Something I heard recently that I think would have had me grasp the concept of the brace leg when I first started playing and correcting my form was "imagine the tee-pad is the edge of a cliff, and your brace/pivot is what will keep you from falling off." So for me, if my weight AND pull through is all moving forward onto my brace foot at the same time than my momentum will continue forward off of the cliff but if my weight is mostly on my back leg during my reach back and I stomp that brace foot down, than pull through, and pivot, it will keep my momentum lagging and centered leaving me squared to the cliff to keep from falling.
Just this video gave me 80 feet Day 1 of practicing, going from around 300 feet ”controlled” to 3x throws in a row at 380 feet without much warmup other than getting a putter 300 feet instead! (Averaging around 270)
And all i needed to do was to slooow down. Not ”overrotate” in my coil (going backwards) and not rush the throw (thinking follow through look cool) and pulling before even planting.
Best videos on form, best explanations. No doubt (video your form folks!)
Brace timing is / was my biggest issue - very helpful explanation here from you! I didn't understand the part about "Amateur Timing Problem" though. Why is it bad when the throwing hand lags too much? (You talk about bringing the back shoulder in too quickly). Could you go more in depth on this part maybe? Thank you :)
If it lags behind too much you miss the pocket because the shoulders are already forward
Great teaching and very clear. I appreciated that you don't start your video with 'like & subscribe' and let the quality of your instructional influence those things on their own before I made my mind up to anyways after seeing the quality. I will have to watch this again and again to work on each small component 1 at a time; thanks!
To me, brace timing explained at 3:35 is contradicting the ice skating tuck at 6:35. This is my biggest issue in my own form. Can we get this elaborated on? :)
I think the brace is to stop and transfer linear momentum, but the tuck is for the upper body that converts the momentum and coiling into rotation
@shakswimm I agree with you but the timing to me is unclear. At 3:35 it looks like to me that Josh drives the offhnad into the brace and waits with the driving arm until fully braced. At 6:35, it looks like he swings both arms into the brace, which is stated at 3:35 that you should not do.
Thanks for addressing the front foot rotation. Subscribed!
I think the brace actually needs to be a brace. I agree having zero movement in your brace knee is a bad thing, you could seriously hurt yourself doing that. But you also don't want your front knee and front foot swinging like a barn door either.
I cannot speak highly enough about throwing slowly. I have been out in the fields the past few months using barely any of my hobbyist power. A year ago I was only able to throw around 300ft at 100% power, and since slowing it down and focusing on the hit, I can get 300ft with significantly less than 100% power.
I found this video helpful. I'm starting to really work on my form. However, I found myself really wanting a few full throws on the part of the presenter. If he could add like 3-5 throws putting together at the end, that would be really helpful. The way it is, it's like 400 1 second clips put together (of the actual portion of the throws) and it's hard to visualize it all as one flush movement. Thanks!
Very helpful video, i didnt even realize that my shoulders followed thru just a tiny bit to early. Hopefully this will ge me a little closer to 500 feet consistently. Im at about 450 right now.
Queso timing is the best timing. Man, that's good.
Going meta with the Robbie memes, that's hardcore man.
One that I would really love for you to cover. Backhand. I feel as though I have a difficult time Changing my pivot style on the brace foot. I would like it to finish a little more like Anthony Barela, where he rolls up to plantar flexion and engages the brace foot calf or the left knee comes up and hip flexion
does it make sense to focus on hip to shoulder separation like trainers do in Baseball? Or should you focus more on getting to the pocket?
Really appreciate this video.
However! Honest question (not a 'gotcha.')
I am having trouble reconciling what is being said at 3:50 (stating that it is critical that weight shifts into the brace before the right arm starts coming forward) with what is happening at 6:38 ('both arms are coming in, tight to the body together,' and they are demonstrated doing so simultaneously, and as a part of, the weight shifting in to the brace).
My understanding is that ideally the right heel should be on the ground and the weight forward before the right (and left?) arm swings forward. So are the arms at 6:38 a little early, or am I missing something?
Maybe your best video ever!
Hi, I've been trying to learn the throwing form by watching different technique videos. But the difficulty for me is to kind of understand how the whole throwing motion goes and what muscles do you use to really power the throw.
By watching a lot of videos, so many of them are focusing on the use of the legs, arm and the weight shift etc. I understand those things are very important to the throw. I used to think that the most power you can get into the throw would be from body rotation, like using the core and back muscles. But by watching a lot of technique videos I have got the mental image that you don't rotate that powerfully after all, and that I'm chucking the disc forward by trying to whip it before follow through.
Now I'm just kind of confused and pretty lost with my own form, and I feel my throwing is just stuck in a bad place. I'm sorry if this came out too negative I'm just frustrated at myself the most, because I don't understand how to apply the good stuff people try to teach.
Our next video will give you more detail than I can write in a comment. Should come out on Monday
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Thanks for the answer. Gotta check it out :) And thanks for all the videos to help the DG community!
Looking fit man. Keep up the good work.
@7:00 minutes in.. This Is Not the Way! Had me cracking up. 😂
Amazing instructions.
Loved the Robbie C moment at 0:53 One question. It looks like you have the wrist cocked pretty far in the "deep pocket". Is that critical or just to provide extra spin? Thanks for all you do!
Wrist should be curled with the hand around 8:00 on the disc
Thank you, very helpful as always. Smash.
Thank you sir, question... I've always followed the 90 degree rules of the upper arm, elbow and lower arm and the upper arm, shoulder and collar bone I guess? BOX, so my understanding was at release point, roughly 2PM, that I should be straight arm but the upper arm and chest still be at 90. Watching through this it looks like some of those 90 degree rules aren't necessary. Moving to the right pec opens the should up and extending out would further do so it seems, putting the shoulder at something like 120 degrees at release with my shoulders parallel to the target.... am I in the right ballpark with that thinking?
Yep. 120 is closer to where most pros are at.
Great video bro!
Josh, would working on the Dan Beto right pec drill be helpful to get that feel of getting the disc deep into the power pocket?
Yep
I have a quick question I hope you can answer. When you get toward the end of your throw, right after you get into the 'power pocket' and you're completely tucked in, is your first movement from that point to extend your forearm out from the elbow or do you just focus on throwing your arm around your body as fast as possible?
Not arm around the body. Arm moves past the body.
The arm is the passenger (crash test dummy) without a seatbelt that goes flying through the window after car hits immovable object (the brace) head-on. Since the arm is without seat belt, it has no where to go but forward.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Thanks for your response! I really feel like I'm misunderstanding something fundamental about this part of the throw and I can't seem to find a good video that focuses on it specifically. I gather that I should stop my head at that point and let my arm go past then its force will naturally force my head to follow with good timing (please correct that if I'm missing something) but should my forearm just naturally extend from the centrifugal force or should I be putting any strength into extending it manually and, if so, what should the timing be like?
Great Video. I noticed my timing on the lower body and upper body are both off. But its hard to work on both at the same time. So which one do you recommend working on first?
I usually start from the hit and work backwards
In my opinion the early non-throwing arm movement is misleading, simply because the movement of the arm itself is not the point. The purpose of the arm movement is in my opinion the protraction of the shoulder. Protraction of the shoulders creates tension in the upper back muscles across the shoulder girdle, which prevents any possibility of collapsing the throwing arm into the chest, i.e. rounding. Moving the arm is a tool to aid the shoulder protraction, and what works best could be individual. Moving the arm in front of the body (the "double move") pretty much ensures protraction, which might be why some get good results. Pushing the arm down by the side, which is also common, is possible to do without protraction.
To ensure the shoulder protraction, it is also possible to keep the shoulders protracted throughout the whole movement. I suspect that doing the protraction right before the throw adds an element of myotactic reflex for added power. Personally I would not completely rule out that the off arm movement, or rather the shoulder moving forward, can also be used to add some rotational power by advanced throwers. Most of the rotation, or perhaps rather coil and uncoil, probably comes from the oblique slings though.
This video is fantastic
Lookin healthy brother 👊🏼
I appreciate a lot this video and the tips in it. But about power pocket: in many video, including Ezra's, they tuck the disc in the RIGHT pocket, in order to have arm and upper arm at 90°. Why here LEFT pocket should be the correct one? I can try, but seems to activate disc-pulling, instead of body rotation. Or are we saying to rotate more the wrist in order to be closer to LEFT pocket, but keeping the arm and upper arm at 90?
5:54 You are showing physically moving the disc back, but everything I have seen is that the disc stays in place as your body moves past it. Can you comment? Thanks.
I think he's just doing that for visual effect. In an actual run up he wouldn't have had the disc stay by his front leg like he did
Correct
My point is that if you don’t mention that while teaching a new skill, people who watch the video and try to incorporate the lessons may think they have to thrust the disc backward, which would not be good. I would have mentioned this to prevent misunderstanding from those trying to learn how to throw. That’s all.
@@skeller61 I can’t mention everything all the time. This video was originally 30 minutes long and I had to keep telling myself “this isn’t a mechanics video” because it’s very easy to stray from the topic. There are a bunch of things I would love to mention, but can’t without making an hour and a half long video
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I understand. I’m not trying to attack you, but to make sure people don’t get the wrong idea that you should, at that point in the throw, push the disc back with your hand. If I was a newbie, I might get confused by this. No need to respond. Thanks for putting out videos to help others.
Great video bud.
"We have chapters so skip to just the part you need"
*puts entire video on loop*
This is a great video bros
Should we be turning on our back foot or front foot? And shouldn’t the hips be in front of the shoulders when uncoiling to create that whip like motion?
Quick question… Should your brace leg be completely straight when fully braced? I have a hard time doing that, might be a flexibility issue? I feel in general that my hips and brace are horrible, and it’s very unnatural for me to “slide” into the brace. My hips and shoulders want to rotate the millisecond my throwing arm starts moving forward. Even just doing in slow motion, I feel pain in back leg knee when trying to do more of a proper slide… 😞
Doesn’t need to be straight. Better for the knee if it isn’t probably
Bracing should initially be on the ball of the foot, perpendicular to the target, to maximize accuracy. A turned foot is for maximum distance only
Great Robbie impression lol
I think I have the flexibility to let my back leg point a bit backwards. Is what you mention more of the it's okay but it won't benefit me or more of the I can do it, I have potential to gain 30 more feet of power just by turning my leg a little backwards?
Of course with my form it wouldn't make a world of difference in extra distance, but at least I wouldn't have to consciously keep avoiding it when drilling.
2:40. Oh and even more so 3:40. How to stop pulling arm into brace. I have to be more patient and not want to throw the disc so early.
thats me!
There's a video of Ezra stating he comes out of the pocket more towards the left peck . I've also heard in the past to come out the right side more ?
I think he has changed his mind on left pec. I think
So let me ask this when you're right or braced foot pivots should have pivot on the heel or should have pivot on the toe and does it matter?
Heel most likely
Hey! Dont know if you still get to these comments on old videos but I have a question on the "Pocket". When I watch slow mo videos of the pros, most of their shoulders or chest is wide open at release. This kind of combats what I am understanding in this video.
It seems that when I try to get to the pocket and not open as quickly, I muscle the disc. Do you have any thoughts on how I can understand this concept better?
Most pros are between 8-18 degrees open at release. So baaaaarely open. There are a few exceptions of course. But we have a video we’ll be recording soon on it.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf thanks for the quick reply! So when you are getting the disc to the right pec, are you focusing more on pulling your elbow into that spot, and then pulling through faster at release to get ahead of your shoulders, or is it more collapsing your forearm into that sweet spot and letting rotation fling it from your hand? I think that’s where I’m getting held up and using too much arm?
@@Crackalackiin you can’t really use too much arm. You can only make it easier for your arm to move more efficiently. The arm needs to pass the body (fairly linearly). The timing makes it feel more or less “muscled.”
I saw someone comment awhile back about throwing uphill or downhill. Or throwing from a side hill lie. Did you already cover this and i missed it? I'm very curious.
We haven’t yet
@@OverthrowDiscGolf ok. Thanks for the quick response! I look forward to it! 😁🥏🥏🥏🥏⛳
Amazing video
Hey Josh, love the content. Keep up the good work. It looks like you've lost a fair amount of weight...looking good buddy!
Thanks!
Failing to get deep pocket/lagging throwing hand… 🤯 that’s my issue! Now I know.
Is it a good "drill" just to walk the steps of this motion slowly with a disc in hand over and over again? I'm comfortable with 340 ft drives, but I know for a fact that almost every part of my timing is incorrect and I want to fix it, not only so I can throw further, but also so my 300 foot throws feel effortless and more accurate.
It is a great way to work it out
Being in martial arts for 50 years I have trouble pivoting on the heal. We are accustomed to our balance on the balls of our feet. I am very flex able so I can still have a good reach back and balance. Will my mental hard wired balance be an issue?
I have / had the same issue and I'll share what I know:
Balls of the feet make for a good, athletic stance that is quick and balanced (for almost every sport or activity, I'm from marching band where you need to be on the balls of your feet as well), and being on the balls of your feet is good for the backhand form. What I do / have heard is that when you plant your brace foot down, you can still plant on the balls of your foot, but the weight shift should drive your heel into the ground. Once the weight is on your heel, it drives your leg into the hips and gives rotation, and you can also follow through on the heel.
My take is that you should stay on the balls of your feet, but on the plant step, after the ball of your foot touches the ground, try to drive your heel into the ground to push up on your leg into your hips, and the pivot on the heel will happen naturally.
Also, if you drive the ball of your foot into the ground on the brace, your knee catches most of the weight which is bad for your knee. If you drive your heel in the ground then it goes up through your leg into your hips and it is safe for the knee.
@@SixSided thanks, your advice sounds well founded. It will take some time and practice to adjust.
The trick is to not use your arm at all Your body momentun and turn timed with a loose reachback the arm will whip by itself abd the natural thing is you grip tight at the last second. Its all about the loose whip and grip.