I want to say this is an OpOrd planning phase training, nothing so reconnaissance about it. Usually a dismounted recce team is 4 to 6 man deep while the rest of the recce plantoon elements act as QRF. A platoon size is more doable for a reconnaissance, but a Company; that is a basically a large foot soldier of Line Company. A recce platoon falls under Headquarters or under military intellegent company or for the high speed one; Long Range Reconnaissance. Who ever came up with this is so clueless and this is a bogus title.
What’s funny is that this “cutting edge new wiz bang infantry company” is just returning to the traditional role of infantryman instead of an armored division.
The Army hasn’t had tank divisions for over a decade. Or brigades. Or battalions. The largest tank unit today is a company. Try to keep up with current events.
@@elevenb6967 this was a sarcastic comment about how the army has just turned their infantry into a mechanized armored division with big main guns, so yes sort of like tanks with zero situational awareness.
Anyone remember Light Fighter BS from the 1980’s, then the HUMvees were supposed to be faster more lethal on the battlefield than armor and Strykers were supposed to be the new wave in the early 2000, then war came.
the Combined Arms Task Force was all about lighter more mobile all inclusive battalion + units. i was happy to notice there were no women in this lighter faster more deadly unit.. so it might have a chance..
Lmao any type of reconnaissance unit is gonna be loaded to gills in equipment.. I promise you there’s nothing light about reconnaissance units or light infantry in general… especially if your 101s or 82nd
@@jasontipton8430 Hey kids... Hump a 60 (the pig...) with a tripod and extra barrel. All things are relative, but I see that 'light' infantry is as heavy as it ever was. At least the boots are better.
02:41 "... against rapidly evolving and emerging threats in an era of dynamic change in the character of war." People have been using some variation of these buzz words forever. The GWOT era was also an era of dynamic change and especially emerging threats. All throughout the Cold War, military doctrine evolved for a combination of largescale direct conflict with the Soviet Union as well as asymmetric proxy warfare. Before that, you had the beginning of aerial combat and long range fires, the end of cavalry, etc. Change itself is unchanging
It is kind of odd; jungle/forest light infantry patrol training, when a brigade of 101 is coming back from a Eastern Europe deployment, prepped for full mechanized/peer combat. This is more like somebody wants to imitate what the Marines are doing with their new Littoral regiments, or what 25th Div in Hawaii has been working on.
I was LRSU with the 101st, the MFRC is different as they have drone operators, anti drone operators, stinger operators amongst your usual infantry and snipers as well as a 13C for that indirect fire superiority!
@@friedchickenandwatermelon8307 I get that. There were no drones back then and we all knew how to call for fire, so much so, that we didn't't need an FO and at least one sniper was on team. Oh, well, times change.
@@pfdrtom I didn't need to mention an FO as this new team has a mortar with them that can visually see the enemy, range it and engage it as we used to do in Afghanistan with a modified 224.
@@pfdrtom and call for fire is a common trade amongst all infantry (at least in the 101st) and cannon cockers. The FO MOS do more than call for fire, they have JTAC, CAS and NFS ability which is why that MOS is so important.
@@friedchickenandwatermelon8307 Not really. We spent three days and probably millions of dollars at Hurlburt Field calling in Specter gun ships, various jets, and various arty when I was in Ranger Batt. Why spread out the task when a well trained grunt with a radio can do it? Simple. By the time I got out the military was going to a mindset that we all share the war, whatever or wherever that may be. It actually complicates things. Ask any SF or LRRP or Ranger in Vietnam who called in B-52s.
Yeah another "light" unit. I remember the "lightfighters" the 7th Infantry Division that carried 60 to 75 pound rucks. I know because I was in their Airborne LRRP unit in Mil Intel and saw that silliness. No vehicles, no tracks, no trucks, that what sold the LightFightr concept on the shoulders of the poor infantryman. 10th Infantry at Ft Drum was the same back then. This is just new horseshit, repackaged by a new Colonel or Brigadier moving the furniture so to speak and claiming a whole new idea! The 7th ID Lightfighters (1984 through....what 1994) were so burdened, so slow and sounded like elephants moving through the grass. The "cabbage patch" raggedy cloth on their Kevlars did nothing to endear them to anybody, let alone themselves. But they had to, it was Division decree, so they all looked liked dorks in urban combat in Panama 1989. See for yourself.
These guys look ate up, they have a long way to go before they compare to the light infantry recon of the 1980’s. Those young captains have a lot to learn yet.
'Lighter'.... But every one of the troops is carrying 75-frikkin'-pounds on their LPCs.... For the uninitiated, 'LPCs' are your boots. So the unit may be lighter [fewer vehicles etc.] but the **troops** are still loaded down like Sherpas going up Everest. Speaking as a veteran who humped the ruck back in the bad ol' days of Reagan era gunboat diplomacy, thanks SO much for that.....
Yeah no crap. I was in LRSD at the 7th Inf DIv during 1986-1990. Excellent training, great unit to be in, loved it. Then some Brigadier decided to "move the furniture" and eliminated LRS completely. Bad idea I think, LRS is an ace in the hole for a Brigade, or Division. Oh well, I moved on to a Line Company in the 82nd.
Bring back the Long Range Surveillance Companies. I was with the LRS companies in Afghanistan. Don't let the "light" part fool you if you're thinking of joining hahaha. They're meaning they're simply on foot, but that ruck on a recce mission is NOT light hahaha.
I came in after LRS was disbanded I was pissed I still made it into the scout platoons but LRS was the shit apparently from some NCOs that had been there
Comment section is misunderstanding what "light" means. It doesn't mean your carrying a smaller pack and prancing through the woods. It means your a dismounted recon infantry unit without heavy armor tank units and are conducting scout operations as an infantry unit.
If this platoon is “multi domain” you didn’t show it. I saw foot mobile recon and a drone that’s probably limited to daylight observation. This is 40 year old tech. Certainly not “cutting edge.”
Would love to see the army shift away from using infantry men as pack mules & modeled infantry to be more of assaulter role. Instead of using 70L rucks drop us down to maybe 40-50L rucks. Drop our weight to 35-45 lbs dry weight, you know the standard for for the 15 mile ranger standard ruck…
Not seeing anything different than when I served in the Rakkasans, except for the new tech and the…boonie hats?! When did they start handing out boonie hats?
Recon missions require heavy loads and good planning is used to avoid decisive engagements. Widespread use of body armor is a GWOT anomaly, infantrymen have fought for millenia without body armor
the new light fighter will be women. They cannot carry more than 10 pounds or move further than 3 miles, but damn it if they won't be light get those ladies on the front lines. They arent having children anymore anyways
"New Type of Unit "?! 😂 they stopped chasing goat herders and now they are gearing up for COD MWIII.... these is what regular light infantry is supposed to be doing, nothing new here besides the drones...
Shouldn't soldiers be a bit more slimmer so that they are hard to target and can easily take cover and slip through small areas? I mean I saw some slim soldiers but most looked broader and bigger.
@@tannercoons8399 hand to hand is really rare now a days and i don't think being slim is weak that's just a misconception cause my grand dad used to be in the army and he was really slim but was damn strong and still is and highly enduring in his 80's.
I mean thicker you are the easier it is to carry the weight. Hiking and carrying gear is what they do most of the time, being thin ain’t gonna help with that.
@@joshuaamado559 but if you are very thick then during fire fight they become the easy target atleast that is what we all hear and even seen as it's very hard to take cover or slip through places. Being slim and being thin are also very different things cause you can be slim but have very tight strong musculature like the track and field athletes.
Patrick Mahomes’ final season at Texas Tech he led the nation in passing yards. 41 passing TDs and 12 rushing TDs. Single handedly carried a historically disappointing football program on his back. Something that Baker Mayfield tried to do and failed.
JJ Mccarthy REMAINS the best college football player in history and quite frankly the best football player in general in history from backyard to middle school to high school to college and finally, the NFL.
While Times Archives features, on This Episode, the United States Army's " Multi Function Reconnaissance Company" , it is a great mistake , on the part and parcel of the NME ( National Military Establishment) at the NMCC ( National Military Command Center) , the Pentagon @ 1600 Defense, Washington, DC , that, the Army and the Other 5 Services ( Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Space Force and Coast Guard) are solely fixated on one sphere of Warfare. And that is Force on Force ,with Near Peer Threats. History has taught Us AMCITS ( American Citizens) that Wars are NEVER , EVER fought in a funnel. And ,by that, I Myself mean , that, in the case of the Vietnam War, exempli gratia ( e.g. ) while a General War betwixt and between the USMC and US Army vs the NVA was ongoing, there was also the spectre of Terrorism. No General nor Admiral worth His Salt ,would ever discount that it is just as important to conduct CounterTerrorism , as well as Land Armies, Air Force and Navy elements are slugging it out and about ,with Their Own Enemy Aggressor equivalents. 🇺🇸🇺🇲🪖🎖️💣💥🔥🛡️🗡️🦅🗽📜🇺🇸🇺🇲
there is nothing light being a infantryman we will always carry heavy shit all the time
I don't miss that at all, I feel like I'm 50
@@screamingeagle11b yes
I want to say this is an OpOrd planning phase training, nothing so reconnaissance about it. Usually a dismounted recce team is 4 to 6 man deep while the rest of the recce plantoon elements act as QRF. A platoon size is more doable for a reconnaissance, but a Company; that is a basically a large foot soldier of Line Company. A recce platoon falls under Headquarters or under military intellegent company or for the high speed one; Long Range Reconnaissance. Who ever came up with this is so clueless and this is a bogus title.
When I joined 22 years ago, and saw that old 1sg struggling to walk straight, I said that won't be me, 22 years later that's me lol!
Get rid of all those batteries. The more you know the less you need.
What’s funny is that this “cutting edge new wiz bang infantry company” is just returning to the traditional role of infantryman instead of an armored division.
Except tankers are NOT infantry.
Also, armored tanks? As opposed to tanks that aren't armored? -_-
The Army hasn’t had tank divisions for over a decade. Or brigades. Or battalions. The largest tank unit today is a company. Try to keep up with current events.
@@coryhoggatt7691isn’t 1st AD basically a tank division? Yes they have infantry but a division that purely exist of 1 thing, doesn’t exist
This MFRC was never and is not an armored unit
@@elevenb6967 this was a sarcastic comment about how the army has just turned their infantry into a mechanized armored division with big main guns, so yes sort of like tanks with zero situational awareness.
Laughed when I saw the ruck sack. Thanks for the footage Times Archives.
A recon company that makes as much noise as a brigade. Wonderful.
100% true, I have lost my hearing thanks to Afghanistan but these guys make so much noise that a deaf man can hear them from a mile away.
Trained w/ Nam Vets like this in the early 80's only to vacation in Baghdad during Stoploss.
Anyone remember Light Fighter BS from the 1980’s, then the HUMvees were supposed to be faster more lethal on the battlefield than armor and Strykers were supposed to be the new wave in the early 2000, then war came.
Just standby. I give this "New" concept five years at most, and it'll get shelved so a new, new concept can be implemented.
the Combined Arms Task Force was all about lighter more mobile all inclusive battalion + units. i was happy to notice there were no women in this lighter faster more deadly unit.. so it might have a chance..
How many times have I heard "lighter and more lethal" over the last 30 years?
Lmao any type of reconnaissance unit is gonna be loaded to gills in equipment.. I promise you there’s nothing light about reconnaissance units or light infantry in general… especially if your 101s or 82nd
thats not what light means Light Infantry means no Armor or other heavy vehicles.
@@madkabal lol apparently you didn’t get it
82nd
Or the 10th light infantry division aka 10th mountain
There is going to be drone surveillance, resupply, medevac, air support, communications (wifi) jadc2, hunter killer, sigint, skynet...
Ah, the venerably lightweight M249 and 10 pound ruck sack, empty.
weighs 25 pounds with aa 200 round belt hanging off it carry it for a few hours see how light it is like how hes jabbing his barrel in the ground
@@jasontipton8430 Hey kids... Hump a 60 (the pig...) with a tripod and extra barrel. All things are relative, but I see that 'light' infantry is as heavy as it ever was. At least the boots are better.
@@kevinnathanson6876No assistant gunner? I was Mech, but even we had A.G. It's a crew served weapon.
@@jasontipton8430 M249 weights 16.5 lbs. I think you're thinking of the M240, that's in the low to high 20's depending on the variant.
@@nomadmarauder-dw9re That's an M249, it's not a crew served weapon. It's heavier counterpart, the M240, is a crew served.
Good lord where are these soldiers reflective pt belts everyone knows you cannot do ant type of meaningful training without the belt.
Or yellow or red vests.
Lightest thing I carried was a compression dressing.
Lightest thing I carried was my cut-down toothbrush. Cut half the handle off to save weight. Every half ounce counts when you are Airborne Infantry!
02:41 "... against rapidly evolving and emerging threats in an era of dynamic change in the character of war."
People have been using some variation of these buzz words forever. The GWOT era was also an era of dynamic change and especially emerging threats. All throughout the Cold War, military doctrine evolved for a combination of largescale direct conflict with the Soviet Union as well as asymmetric proxy warfare. Before that, you had the beginning of aerial combat and long range fires, the end of cavalry, etc. Change itself is unchanging
It is kind of odd; jungle/forest light infantry patrol training, when a brigade of 101 is coming back from a Eastern Europe deployment, prepped for full mechanized/peer combat. This is more like somebody wants to imitate what the Marines are doing with their new Littoral regiments, or what 25th Div in Hawaii has been working on.
I was 25th 3BDE .. we were light and fast with jungle and amphibious capability .. probably one of the coolest units in terms of being versatile
Um...we were doing that in the late 80s in the LRSD units and sometimes in the Pathfinder unit I was in. Geez.
I was LRSU with the 101st, the MFRC is different as they have drone operators, anti drone operators, stinger operators amongst your usual infantry and snipers as well as a 13C for that indirect fire superiority!
@@friedchickenandwatermelon8307 I get that. There were no drones back then and we all knew how to call for fire, so much so, that we didn't't need an FO and at least one sniper was on team. Oh, well, times change.
@@pfdrtom I didn't need to mention an FO as this new team has a mortar with them that can visually see the enemy, range it and engage it as we used to do in Afghanistan with a modified 224.
@@pfdrtom and call for fire is a common trade amongst all infantry (at least in the 101st) and cannon cockers. The FO MOS do more than call for fire, they have JTAC, CAS and NFS ability which is why that MOS is so important.
@@friedchickenandwatermelon8307 Not really. We spent three days and probably millions of dollars at Hurlburt Field calling in Specter gun ships, various jets, and various arty when I was in Ranger Batt. Why spread out the task when a well trained grunt with a radio can do it? Simple. By the time I got out the military was going to a mindset that we all share the war, whatever or wherever that may be. It actually complicates things. Ask any SF or LRRP or Ranger in Vietnam who called in B-52s.
i think the army should worry about its 40% obesity rate, even in the infantry, and its woke standards instead
Thanks for adding nothing of relevance to the convo
The Army is nowhere near 40% obesity rate. It’s in the teens. Fattest branch is the Navy at 21%. But yeah just make shit up
Somebody else here was dissing the 80s light infantry program. But it served a purpose as an incubator for leadership.
Long Range Patrol is BACK baby
Yeah another "light" unit. I remember the "lightfighters" the 7th Infantry Division that carried 60 to 75 pound rucks. I know because I was in their Airborne LRRP unit in Mil Intel and saw that silliness. No vehicles, no tracks, no trucks, that what sold the LightFightr concept on the shoulders of the poor infantryman. 10th Infantry at Ft Drum was the same back then. This is just new horseshit, repackaged by a new Colonel or Brigadier moving the furniture so to speak and claiming a whole new idea!
The 7th ID Lightfighters (1984 through....what 1994) were so burdened, so slow and sounded like elephants moving through the grass. The "cabbage patch" raggedy cloth on their Kevlars did nothing to endear them to anybody, let alone themselves. But they had to, it was Division decree, so they all looked liked dorks in urban combat in Panama 1989. See for yourself.
I was a “Light Fighter” back in the day. Nothing light about it carried all our shit on back and that doesn’t include your weapon ammo
Nothing light about carrying a 80lbs ruck on your back 😂
That's not what 'light' means, man.
@@elevenb6967 that's the joke, man
THIS VIDEO IS BORNING!!!
Super bien ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
So what exactly is so lightweight about the XM7 theyre pushing for?
Dude at 0:17 better fix his shit. He’s in for a world of hurt in a few fast minutes. I get he is carrying other shit but damn he looks jacked the f up
I’ve got a Spear pack… loaded out it’s around 100 lbs. lol. Hopefully you’re not stuck carrying a MG
These guys look ate up, they have a long way to go before they compare to the light infantry recon of the 1980’s. Those young captains have a lot to learn yet.
Not really a new era you're just returning to traditional training but now with a drone
GIs that don’t bluster pants in their boots look sloppy as hell the military needs to fix that…
11B & 19D says: Recon Motto - Travel Light, Freeze at Night... LOL
US Army grossly over burden average Joe w/ nuff stuff fight WW3 by himself.
so many things i saw wrong i cant even start they got to be national gaurd
101st Airborne
Lighter = no vehicles
Yes that’s what Light Infantry means; units lacking heavy weapons, armor and vehicles
This unit actually has more vehicles than it used to, thus is more mobile
MFRC is IMO a direct result of seeing what worked/working in Ukraine and adapting...
'Lighter'....
But every one of the troops is carrying 75-frikkin'-pounds on their LPCs....
For the uninitiated, 'LPCs' are your boots. So the unit may be lighter [fewer vehicles etc.] but the **troops** are still loaded down like Sherpas going up Everest.
Speaking as a veteran who humped the ruck back in the bad ol' days of Reagan era gunboat diplomacy, thanks SO much for that.....
So....light infantry units are coming back?
So basically they replaced the LRSC
Something I did in the 80s.
LRSC deactivated a decade ago, nothing replaced it
Yeah no crap. I was in LRSD at the 7th Inf DIv during 1986-1990. Excellent training, great unit to be in, loved it. Then some Brigadier decided to "move the furniture" and eliminated LRS completely. Bad idea I think, LRS is an ace in the hole for a Brigade, or Division. Oh well, I moved on to a Line Company in the 82nd.
Bring back the Long Range Surveillance Companies. I was with the LRS companies in Afghanistan. Don't let the "light" part fool you if you're thinking of joining hahaha. They're meaning they're simply on foot, but that ruck on a recce mission is NOT light hahaha.
I came in after LRS was disbanded I was pissed I still made it into the scout platoons but LRS was the shit apparently from some NCOs that had been there
@@Robert-ky4vx it was honestly the most miserable and amazing time I ever had in my army career.
They don't seem particularly light or fast. Also, they make a lot of noise.
I’m confused-I thought that the Marines were changing their mission to be lighter without artillery and deactivating their Airwings
Old Army story - What is new is old, what is old is new. Anything that happened 10 years ago is ancient history.
Comment section is misunderstanding what "light" means. It doesn't mean your carrying a smaller pack and prancing through the woods. It means your a dismounted recon infantry unit without heavy armor tank units and are conducting scout operations as an infantry unit.
Comment section understands just fine. They're just making the "light infantry isn't light" joke in various ways.
@@1BeGe I see some lost ass mfs below who are confused
"light" is a relative term.
If this platoon is “multi domain” you didn’t show it. I saw foot mobile recon and a drone that’s probably limited to daylight observation. This is 40 year old tech. Certainly not “cutting edge.”
Light manportable SUAS isn't 40 yrs old. Just because you don't see their EW section doesn't mean its not there
This was a short clip but the MFRC has infantry, snipers, mortars, drone operators, signit, anti drone operators and stinger missile operators.
So basically like the British Pathfinders
Would love to see the army shift away from using infantry men as pack mules & modeled infantry to be more of assaulter role. Instead of using 70L rucks drop us down to maybe 40-50L rucks. Drop our weight to 35-45 lbs dry weight, you know the standard for for the 15 mile ranger standard ruck…
Their kits make me wish I had reupped.
I was light infantry. Let me tell ya. Youre still carrying another person basically.
Hahahaha! Yup!
Not seeing anything different than when I served in the Rakkasans, except for the new tech and the…boonie hats?! When did they start handing out boonie hats?
Uncle Sam all the way! :) love from philippines
🇺🇸🦅👍🏻
>Aimed to modern conflict
>Using no armor when even recon groups in RU-UKR war use maximum ammount of protection on themselfes
Recon missions require heavy loads and good planning is used to avoid decisive engagements. Widespread use of body armor is a GWOT anomaly, infantrymen have fought for millenia without body armor
@@NUCL3ARTAC0S thermal mavic and artillery doesn't care about your planning and heavy loads
They are using no armor because it is a training event and adding 30 extra lbs to every guy will just increase the rate of injuries for no reason
So LRSD?
LRSD is at division level or higher (operational decision making). These guys are at brigade level (more focused on tactical manoeuvre)
I call BS on you Times Archives - more lethal? More lethal than what?
How are they "Lighter and More Lethal" carrying all that crap on their back? Get in quiet observe, make report to higher and then get the hell out
Light means non mounted/mechanized ya goober
@@Dero_milsurp
LMAO!
Modern covert recon requires a lot of equipment to perform, nothing new
@@NUCL3ARTAC0SHow so? Oh, right. Batteries. Lots and lots of batteries.
All I saw was lack of body armor. Guess its teach the new dogs old tricks?
🤔
Lighter more lethal than what?
Train hard fight easy .
the new light fighter will be women. They cannot carry more than 10 pounds or move further than 3 miles, but damn it if they won't be light
get those ladies on the front lines. They arent having children anymore anyways
Wow US Army.. really super intuitive.. you brought back the LRRP.... howah.. 😂
"New Type of Unit "?! 😂 they stopped chasing goat herders and now they are gearing up for COD MWIII.... these is what regular light infantry is supposed to be doing, nothing new here besides the drones...
Couldn't beat the goat herders, couldn't beat the rice farmers, now its onto the next loss.
No ghillies ? Gasp !
For what?
very noisy recon team
How I wish I’m still in. Would have enjoyed training and fighting alongside the Filipino army. The country I was born in. Hooah!!
So is there anyone from the gwot era teaching guys anything useful
Nothing light here
Shouldn't soldiers be a bit more slimmer so that they are hard to target and can easily take cover and slip through small areas? I mean I saw some slim soldiers but most looked broader and bigger.
No. They should be strong so they can actually fight back
@@tannercoons8399 hand to hand is really rare now a days and i don't think being slim is weak that's just a misconception cause my grand dad used to be in the army and he was really slim but was damn strong and still is and highly enduring in his 80's.
I mean thicker you are the easier it is to carry the weight. Hiking and carrying gear is what they do most of the time, being thin ain’t gonna help with that.
@@joshuaamado559 but if you are very thick then during fire fight they become the easy target atleast that is what we all hear and even seen as it's very hard to take cover or slip through places. Being slim and being thin are also very different things cause you can be slim but have very tight strong musculature like the track and field athletes.
@@garv1177 it’s only a couple inches, that’s not gonna make you much more likely to be shot
Patrick Mahomes sucked in college.
Patrick Mahomes’ final season at Texas Tech he led the nation in passing yards. 41 passing TDs and 12 rushing TDs. Single handedly carried a historically disappointing football program on his back. Something that Baker Mayfield tried to do and failed.
JJ Mccarthy REMAINS the best college football player in history and quite frankly the best football player in general in history from backyard to middle school to high school to college and finally, the NFL.
But do they recon ?
I didn't see anything special... 🙄
Yes ... Yes ... Yes ... but do they have the right pronouns ???
What is this one bidens new woke units 😅😅😅 this is the democrats mew recruiting video😅😅
Good luck, w the way the US is going downhill, cant even hit the quota of troops and all that dei and pronoun stuff
While Times Archives features, on This Episode, the United States Army's " Multi Function Reconnaissance Company" , it is a great mistake , on the part and parcel of the NME ( National Military Establishment) at the NMCC ( National Military Command Center) , the Pentagon @ 1600 Defense, Washington, DC , that, the Army and the Other 5 Services ( Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Space Force and Coast Guard) are solely fixated on one sphere of Warfare. And that is Force on Force ,with Near Peer Threats. History has taught Us AMCITS ( American Citizens) that Wars are NEVER , EVER fought in a funnel. And ,by that, I Myself mean , that, in the case of the Vietnam War, exempli gratia ( e.g. ) while a General War betwixt and between the USMC and US Army vs the NVA was ongoing, there was also the spectre of Terrorism. No General nor Admiral worth His Salt ,would ever discount that it is just as important to conduct CounterTerrorism , as well as Land Armies, Air Force and Navy elements are slugging it out and about ,with Their Own Enemy Aggressor equivalents. 🇺🇸🇺🇲🪖🎖️💣💥🔥🛡️🗡️🦅🗽📜🇺🇸🇺🇲
How is a recon company with orgaic SUAS and SIGINT a mistake?