Your position of Sima Zhao was a total surprise. I would have expected Zhuge Liang on this list since he was basically running Shu after Liu Bei's death.
Yah, dont know why Zhuge Liang isnt here too. But Sima Zhao is here on merit, unlike the other all-rounder list, haha ... even though he was just building on an extremely strong foundation after his papa and elder bro, it still took a lot just to maintain a grip.
Love seeing Cao Ren getting recognition. He's one of my favourite Wei officers and I wish the games give him some more screen time too. Also really enjoy the moveset of that weird sword and shield thing that he has XD.
Cao Cao is a brilliant leader who values his subordinates and leads with outstanding valor. Heck, he doesn’t care what their backgrounds are, as long as they have the skill and the talent that they can contribute in his endeavors and if Cao Cao exists in the modern times, he would be hailed as a hero for being tolerant and accepting of everyone regardless of their background.
@@TheNightowlGaming Cao Cao’s crew are a ragtag bunch of dudes with various backgrounds and he signs them up with him being impressed by their skills and here is a notable list of people signed up by Cao Cao during his campaigns of conquest “Stone Cold” Dian Wei- a tough brute who might have came from a prison, either by getting paroled or doing a jailbreak Xu Zhu- a fat lad who wants to enjoy a good meal Zhang He- a flamboyant exotico who could rival his former boss, Yuan Shao, when it comes to being a diva Jia Xu- a sneaky pirate-esque dude or maybe one of Jafar’s many cousins who nearly whacked Cao Cao Zhang Liao- Lu Bu’s former buddy and lieutenant Yue Jin and Li Dian- two guys who are always close together like kids playing together in the school playground Wang Yi- an emo chick with a burning hatred for Ma Chao.
He was also completely amoral when he had to be. He ordered one of his top men to issue short rations to the troops during a siege, then had that man executed ("borrowed his head") to placate the troops.
Instead of leader I would say this list is better classified as commanders/generals my first thought is governors, kings, emperors like liu bei, Zhang lu, dong zhuo and the rest instead of Zhang Liao, cao ren and xiahou yuan. Although it's still well put together
Sima Zhao was a great leader, even surpassing his father just like Sun Ce. Unfortunately, he died a year later after his massive success. Pretty much like that little conqueror. One of the most attractive Dynasty Leaders. ❤
I respect your exclusion of Sun Quan. I feel like he very much took a backseat and let his subordinates rule in his stead. I would argue Liu Shan actually did more by surrendering by comparison Another great vid! Thank you!!
If I gotta describe Sun Quan’s rule as well as his importance in the Three Kingdoms era, it would be compared to a fella that two competing individuals want to call their best friend or a girl that two guys are fighting for or even a child stuck in a custody battle Both Cao Cao and Liu Bei want to secure Sun Quan’s strength and of course, Sun Quan is stuck in the middle yet he’s applying the divide and conquer stratagem
@@michaelbandada8330 hmm you make a great point. I do feel like he did have a difficult challenge in balancing his position between Cao Cao and Liu Bei and both fought them arguably at their strongest and only in the name of defense. My only two complaints however is that Sun Quan himself was never a great field commander or a good strategist. It was his generals and advisers (most of whom he didn’t recruit nor always listened too). And when Cao Cao could have united China he resisted and then when Liu Bei had enough momentum to unite China he again inserted himself and kept the feud going by attacking Liu Bei
I think had Sun Jian or Sun Ce lived things would have shifted in favour of Wu Sun Ce having the brawn and Zhou Yu being the top tier strategist it would have been close. Had Sun ce taken over Xu Chang he would have eventually found a way to overpower Cao Cao. Or at least it would have been the two kingdoms instead of three.
I remember reading somewhere that, historically, Sun Jian was regarded as one of the greatest soldiers of the time or something like that. He had a long list of accomplishments and was respected and regarded as one of the most influential men of his era. He was skilled in everything he did and well-liked by everyone associated with him. If he didn't die so early, the resulting history may have turned out a lot different. I know in the novel, which a lot of the lore for these characters comes from, several of his accomplishments were changed or given to someone else (such as Guan Yu) but historically, he seemed like a really big deal while he was alive. Though that's just what I've read. The source for that information may have been a load of shit for all I know, but I don't see any reason to think it was.
Liu Bei should be around 7/8 on the list in my opinion. Yeh he cared about the people and wanted peace in the land but generally he was weak. His emotions got to the better of him and the reason why people took him seriously was mainly because of Guan Yu and Zhuge Liang
That's true, but those two followed him for a reason, I could definitely see the argument, but Im gonna make a separate video for the top 10 generals which is different I think than having good leadership abilities, some of the characters will overlap but someone like Liu Bei wouldnt be on there but I can see the argument for him to be lower
@@TheNightowlGamingbeing a good general is different from being a good leader though. Even if you make a top 10 general video, Liu Bei shouldn’t be near that video
I wouldn’t even give Sun Quan 11 he might have been good at delegating which is crucial. But he was also extremely erratic his handling of the crown prince affair, his dealings with Gongsun Yuan, basically shaming Chancellor Lu Xun to death and other things pretty much he left very little for the next generation to work with. Maybe it was his age or something but it’s definitely a shame Sun Deng died young he would have been a great emperor in my opinion
Sun Quan ruled by creating conflicts. Even with his own sons, yes. And, yes, shaming Lu Xun is a mother-freaking act, given that Lu Xun saved Wu from YiLing, and then time and time and time and time again ... But, he maintained power that way. For a loong time ... He has to be number 3 in this list. Sigh.
Glad you didn't put Sun Quan on the list. The thing that ruined his standing for me the most was his decision to backstab his ally Liu Bei by attacking his forces and allying with Wei in Fan castle. First off, why ally with the force that is constantly trying to take over your land and is clearly the bigger threat where if either Shu or Wu falls, then the other is basically f*%@ed fighting Wei all by himself. So why attack the support that you two are supposed to be leaning on and supporting each other on to say afloat in the war against Wei that you should be united against? Dude, I get you want your land back but can you not wait until AFTER Wei is beaten? So because of that, that ended up working more for Wei favor in the long run and screwing over Shu and Wu more which caused them to eventually lose the war later down the line. Sun Quan was lucky that Cao Pi didn't capitalize the Shu - Wu conflict sooner and attack Wu while Wu was busy fighting Shu at Yi-Ling. Second, I hate how the story makes it out that Lui Bei was in the wrong for wanting to retaliate and take revenge for Guan Yu's death.
Interesting perspective, thats so true! Yeah i agree wholeheartedly, I didnt even think of it like that. Now that I think about it more why did they do that, I know Jing province was a territory they wanted but yeah they could have potentially changed history by not attacking. Crazy!
Actually,based on the real history,Wu betrayed Shu because of the aftermath of their collaborations during Chi Bi.There's some sort of argument between Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang during the plan discussion (idk clearly but it seems like Zhuge Liang "trolled" Zhou Yu). Anyway,after Chi Bi,Wu claimed that they want to take Jiang Ling.Zhuge Liang allowed it but Wu failed(he knew that Wu aren't capable to do it,so it's kind of a "troll")(Plus,Zhou Yu died during the failed attempt).So Shu took the advantage of the weaken defence in Jiang Ling and forced Wu to cede Jiang Ling to them,which ignited the spark of vengeance of Wu towards Shu.(And Wei actually took advantage of the situation during Yi Ling by attacking Wu,but I'm not really sure about this) And actually,Sun Quan did forced Sun Shang Xiang(Lady Sun) to run and leave Liu Bei while kidnap their son to Wu but she failed(She managed to escape,but the son was retrieved by Shu).And after Yi Ling,Lady Sun killed herself after hearing the death of Liu Bei. But yeah,this doesn't change the fact that Sun Quan's idea is kinda bad and how he ruthlessly used her sister to Shu for the sake of fake diplomacy.But I just tryna explain his thought process and why he inclined to execute it
Remember that Shu took Jing from Wu. And they didn't give the lands back after Liu Bei Took Yi Province. But I do agree with Cao Cao being the overall bigger threat.
ermm ... because Liu Bei went back on his words and refused to return Jing to Sun Quan which was loaned to him? I mean, in war, there is no right or wrong. But morally, Liu Bei was wrong. RTK paints Liu Bei like a saint, but when people reflect upon his actions, most of it are hypocritical. 1. "Please, take me in, Cow Cow." Sure, said Cao Cao. Proceeded to backstab Cao Cao and retake 1st save-game Xu province. Failed, of course. 2. "Oh no, I cannot attack my clansmen". Attacked Liu Zong after Liu Biao's death, but failed. Forced to run further ... 3. "Oh no, I cannot attack my clansmen." Used an excuse to get in Yi province, and outright destroyed Liu Zhang. "My clansmen" My foot. 4. Borrowed southern Jing from Sun Quan. Kept "delaying" returning Jing province later until Sun Quan got fed up and accepted Lu Meng's proposal of ganging up on Guan Yu. OK, again, in war, no right or right. Not judging. Liu Bei did "order" Guan Yu to return some land too, but Guan Yu "refused". It's like, I borrow $10 from you, and delayed it for years, after making $10,000. You got fed up, and meantime I asked my sworn brother to return $2 to you first. But, he refused, and what can I do? *shrug 5. "For the Han dynasty~!" Then proceeded to attack Wu with the entire kingdom when bro Guan Yu was killed. Even the normally quiet Zhao Yun quipped - Liu Bei is treating his bro's death, a personal matter, when he mobilized the entire kingdom as a national matter. And said it is WRONG. These are the major ones that I can remember off my head. Really dont understand why people of that era like Liu Bei so much, man.
Gotta disagree with Yuan Shao here, I maybe based off the game solely he is one of the best leaders, but he is regarded one of the worst leaders by most historians. He was the leader of a huge army basically was based on the fact that he had a loyal family background. He didnt unified the anti-DongJuo army despite being the leader of that group and they were constantly fighting with each other though their target was DongJuo. And XuRong left him was because how he thinks that YuanShao is stupid and is always over confident. XuRong left YuanShao to join CaoCao and ultimately led to the Wei winning the war of Guando.
Well he's definitely a notable leader and I can see the argument for him not being the best, but still had great success up until the battle of Guandu, either way he led a huge army and his downfall was his own indecisiveness
Sun Jian was a very good leader until an ambush took his life xD. Seriously though, it's unfortunate that he died early. Fending off Hua Xiong and Lu Bu was insane.
i think number 3 should be sun quan, become a young lord and receiving pressure from both military and domestic echelons, sun quan can keep them and even drawing respects. sima zhao is great, but he already got many trainings from sima family
yes. Basically has to be number 3. As a leader. Cant lead an entire kingdom for decades without some leadership, no? Even Liu Bei dont lead the army like Cao Cao. There are reasons why vanguards charge first. Only Cao Cao as a leader is known to be charging in front of the army. (Trivia - Sun Quan tried, twice. Got so many men killed trying to rescue him that he had to give up emulating his father and bro Sun Ce, ha)
Cao cao is the kind of person that will look his enemy in the eye and recruit them even if they killed his own. Unless it's Lu Bu. His greatest mistake IMO (Cao cao himself even questions this at one point). The worst of you is the whole point. I do not fear that. I know how to play monsters. I enjoy it TBH. I think Dynasty Warriors, going as far back as 4, helped make me the person I am now. Oh, but don't misunderstand me here. I'm a honest sinner. Not a hero. I AM chaos. As is Cao Cao. He probably knows that when older and wiser. Control is the difference. It's not order. Think "Chaos theory". Reason and purpose behind events. Even chaos has a very specific pattern behind why things happen. People just misunderstand it. That's all.
Absolutely, everything happens for a reason and those who choose to look at the depth of why things happen and build a level of introspection are unique individuals indeed, just like Cao Cao :)
Lu Bu is a backstabber extraordinaire who has betrayed everyone just for the heck of it and Cao Cao could have used Lu Bu as his personal attack dog but a rabid animal like Lu Bu is prone to snap and he might turn on Cao Cao when he least expects it
@@michaelbandada8330 Two words. Control freaks. It's no wonder Lu Bu was so angry. He got enough of that from his foster fathers. To be used. Abused. Nothing but a tool. The worst of you is the whole point. Do you think you're any less dangerous? At least Lu Bu doesn't pretend. Know where monsters learn it all from? Know how they're created? Do you know who teaches them? I'll give you a hint. From those that fear losing control. Those that push away. Those that stonewall abuse. Those that sluaghter the helpless when they can't fight back. With Sun Tzu on this one. "Know thy enemy." What Cao Cao could have done was get to know Lu Bu better. Lu Bu displays something many people don't. Sincere compassion to those that can no longer fight. Lu Bu does not target the weak and helpless when they are defeated. Cao Cao and Lie Bei won't have seen this. Diaochan seems to have though. I can see why she likes him. Lu Bu isn't heartless. He's just had enough of being used. Treat anyone like that, anyone, and you'd snap too. In the future, Cao Cao spares Jia Xu. Despite being the reason they were were deceiving him. Despite having been the reason Dien Wei was killed. The game is very subtle about it. It puts the pieces together. Showing how the characters slowly learn from past mistakes. I'm noticing more and more how Dynasty Warriors is pulling it off.
OK, another list~! (My work can only be done tomorrow, so I have time to kill, ha) ... OK, the scoring here is "rulers, preferably those who can fight well". Then I would take out Zhang Liao and Cao Ren. Capable commanders, but ... nope. Xiahou Yuan isnt as good, as I explained in previous comments, so ... nope. (If not, Wei commanders would take up most of the list). OK, Sun Jian, believe it or not, is just a general under Yuan Shu. So, even though another great commander, he's not scoring points here. All his battles are under the command of Yuan Shu and not his own. Sun Ce, on the other hand, scores really high here. The only guy who is more charismatic than the hypocrite Liu Bei, recruited really well and the more his side fought, the stronger his side become. Yuan Shao deserves his place actually, thank you for pointing it out. Did maneuver really well at the start to unite the north, even though, yes, his family means people joined him right at the start too. Beating the famous Gongsun Zan cavalry is no small feat. It's only later when he got cocky and started disregarding sincere advice that disaster befall him. It even happened to number 1 Cao Cao (Wan city, Dian Wei, Cao Ang, anyone?) Even Dong Zhuo deserves a mention. If not for the fact that Lu Bu assassinated him, he would still just be around. With the emperor as his puppet, he could actually influence things to a certain degree in that era. A surprising name to mention here has to be ... wait for it, drumroll ... Liu Yan. Liu Zhang's father, yes. Apparently, according to official records compiled painstaking by someone online, he was serving in the imperial courts, and saw the decay firsthand. Wanted to follow the ancestor Liu Bang's path (yeah, same thing Zhuge Liang told Liu Bei) to go Yi province to build up power slowly, and through sheer luck, got just that. Was building up Shu kingdom, but passed away relatively early. Liu Bei, the lucky rat. 😅 Sima Yi should be included in this discussion though he never ruled until much, much later. IMHumbleO, he was forced to take power (like Cao Cao. More on this later). Serving Cao Cao and Cao Pi (faithfully or otherwise) and then Cao Rui (another good emperor), later in a power struggle with Cao Shuang, and lost. Managed to return in power, and must have decided, "I need power to keep the family and myself safe". Did just that ... again, while Sima Zhao did really well just to maintain grip on power, his foundation was from legendary father Sima Yi, and later bro Sima Shi. Sun Quan has to be third. Ruled by weirdly created conflicts within his own faction (even among his own sons, I kid you not), nonetheless he stayed in power for decades. Like Sima Zhao, while it is built upon the foundations of, same same, father and elder bro, the fact that he managed it so well is still something remarkable. Liu Bei has to be second, even though, hypocrite. Let me just cut and paste what I rant about the guy in another comment (and sorry for the wall of text) - 1. "Please, take me in, Cow Cow." Sure, said Cao Cao. Proceeded to backstab Cao Cao and retake 1st save-game Xu province. Failed, of course. 2. "Oh no, I cannot attack my clansmen". Attacked Liu Zong after Liu Biao's death, but failed. Forced to run further ... 3. "Oh no, I cannot attack my clansmen." Used an excuse to get in Yi province, and outright destroyed Liu Zhang. "My clansmen" My foot. 4. Borrowed southern Jing from Sun Quan. Kept "delaying" returning Jing province later until Sun Quan got fed up and accepted Lu Meng's proposal of ganging up on Guan Yu. OK, again, in war, no right or right. Not judging. Liu Bei did "order" Guan Yu to return some land too, but Guan Yu "refused". It's like, I borrow $10 from you, and delayed it for years, after making $10,000. You got fed up, and meantime I asked my sworn brother to return $2 to you first. But, he refused, and what can I do? *shrug 5. "For the Han dynasty~!" Then proceeded to attack Wu with the entire kingdom when bro Guan Yu was killed. Even the normally quiet Zhao Yun quipped - Liu Bei is treating his bro's death, a personal matter, when he mobilized the entire kingdom as a national matter. And said it is WRONG. These are the major ones that I can remember off my head. Really dont understand why people of that era like Liu Bei so much, man. Cow Cow has to be number 1, yes. An imperial offical seeing the decay of the Han dynasty. The fellow who was the guy who rallied everyone to saving the emperor, and pissed when everyone was happy Sun Jian beat Dong Zhuo off to Chang An to the east. Realized it is doomed, and decided to take charge. The typical good-guy-become-"bad" scenario. Again, not right or wrong in war ... The only leader who really rode in front of the army much of the time. (There are "vanguards" for other people, yah? Liu Bei, believe it or not, lost most of his major battles, and nope, didnt go in front as often.) Then, after conquering a place with either wits or battle, rode along the beautiful sceneries, and WRITE POEMS about things. I have his Short Journey poem in front of my work desk. Such foresight, such wisdom, such ambition, such empathy for his world at large ... Written with such a style. Damn.
Another beautiful comment! But I stand by the demon of hefei and the morale master Cao Ren being good leaders! As most of my lists incorporate both the game and history as well, also the older my top 10 videos the less knowledge I had on the characters, the in depth dives ive done into the characters since fully shifting into DW content has grown my knowledge of the characters has also grown so some of my older top 10s I would change around based on what I know now, but if I remade this one I think I would still keep those 2 in, maybe not Xiahou Yuan but those 2 I feel people strong about and them leading by example, per say! haha
@@TheNightowlGaming nod nod, my DW friend. 😅 Please, keep doing what you are doing. All of us are just chilling here and talking about topics that we like, namely, RTK era (book or history) and DW-ing. Again and again, thank you for providing us with a nice online place to hang out. 😅👍
I think as pure leader Yuan Shao is in top 5. Cao Cao too lucky and OP that's why he beat both him and Lu Bu. Even combined power of Lu Bu and him or Lu Bu and Liu Bei(which way more realistic) not enough. Sun Ce more like fighter as his father and both would not have enough time. And. They not meet Cao Cao. Xuchuang is not Wu. Cao Cao is not three rebel generals.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Your position of Sima Zhao was a total surprise. I would have expected Zhuge Liang on this list since he was basically running Shu after Liu Bei's death.
True true, but even so I think of the multitude of fails vs Sima Zhao actually producing results, had to go w him 😁 hope u enjoyed!
Yah, dont know why Zhuge Liang isnt here too. But Sima Zhao is here on merit, unlike the other all-rounder list, haha ... even though he was just building on an extremely strong foundation after his papa and elder bro, it still took a lot just to maintain a grip.
Love seeing Cao Ren getting recognition. He's one of my favourite Wei officers and I wish the games give him some more screen time too. Also really enjoy the moveset of that weird sword and shield thing that he has XD.
Yeah he's definitely underrated for sure! his sword and shield thingy was awesome, I agree
Cao Ren is my most favorite Commander
@@TheNightowlGamingblue iron man
I feel Sun Ce, Zhou Yu and Tashi Ci would of been a major threat had they lived long enough in the Wu Kingdom
100%
Especially Zhou Yu, he could have become the next Zhuge Liang with his brilliant mind.. imo..
I can't believe it... Gan Ji was right after all 😢
@@GReyn Zhou Yu has always been my favorite character since dynasty warriors 2
Cao Cao is a brilliant leader who values his subordinates and leads with outstanding valor. Heck, he doesn’t care what their backgrounds are, as long as they have the skill and the talent that they can contribute in his endeavors and if Cao Cao exists in the modern times, he would be hailed as a hero for being tolerant and accepting of everyone regardless of their background.
1000% Cao Cao is truly a legend
@@TheNightowlGaming Cao Cao’s crew are a ragtag bunch of dudes with various backgrounds and he signs them up with him being impressed by their skills and here is a notable list of people signed up by Cao Cao during his campaigns of conquest
“Stone Cold” Dian Wei- a tough brute who might have came from a prison, either by getting paroled or doing a jailbreak
Xu Zhu- a fat lad who wants to enjoy a good meal
Zhang He- a flamboyant exotico who could rival his former boss, Yuan Shao, when it comes to being a diva
Jia Xu- a sneaky pirate-esque dude or maybe one of Jafar’s many cousins who nearly whacked Cao Cao
Zhang Liao- Lu Bu’s former buddy and lieutenant
Yue Jin and Li Dian- two guys who are always close together like kids playing together in the school playground
Wang Yi- an emo chick with a burning hatred for Ma Chao.
@@michaelbandada8330Zhang He part made me laugh 😂
@@michaelbandada8330 Zhang Liao that’s all that needs to be said, absolute beast in his own right.
He was also completely amoral when he had to be. He ordered one of his top men to issue short rations to the troops during a siege, then had that man executed ("borrowed his head") to placate the troops.
Where is Liu Shan? He was great! (at running Shu into the ground xD). Nice list man
Had me in the first half ngl 😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
well maybe Zhao Yun shouldn't save him during Chang Ban.Liu Bei even yeeted him after causing too much trouble to Zhao Yun🥲
@@krozzedxalternatively, Liu Bei yeeting him into the ground turned Liu Shan's Zhuge Liang-level genius into the dumbass we know and love
@@giovannilloretsorribas2836 seems legit😂
Instead of leader I would say this list is better classified as commanders/generals my first thought is governors, kings, emperors like liu bei, Zhang lu, dong zhuo and the rest instead of Zhang Liao, cao ren and xiahou yuan.
Although it's still well put together
Appreciate it very much! Yeah when I said leaders I meant like commanders and generals people who lead others to battle and stuff
Sun Jian was a total Chad.
True True haha 🔥🙌
Haha for suree 😂😂
Sima Zhao was a great leader, even surpassing his father just like Sun Ce. Unfortunately, he died a year later after his massive success. Pretty much like that little conqueror. One of the most attractive Dynasty Leaders. ❤
Haha 100% definitely has got MC vibes in the series and he's one of my faves
I respect your exclusion of Sun Quan. I feel like he very much took a backseat and let his subordinates rule in his stead. I would argue Liu Shan actually did more by surrendering by comparison
Another great vid! Thank you!!
APpreciate the kinds words so much!!
If I gotta describe Sun Quan’s rule as well as his importance in the Three Kingdoms era, it would be compared to a fella that two competing individuals want to call their best friend or a girl that two guys are fighting for or even a child stuck in a custody battle
Both Cao Cao and Liu Bei want to secure Sun Quan’s strength and of course, Sun Quan is stuck in the middle yet he’s applying the divide and conquer stratagem
@@michaelbandada8330 hmm you make a great point. I do feel like he did have a difficult challenge in balancing his position between Cao Cao and Liu Bei and both fought them arguably at their strongest and only in the name of defense. My only two complaints however is that Sun Quan himself was never a great field commander or a good strategist. It was his generals and advisers (most of whom he didn’t recruit nor always listened too). And when Cao Cao could have united China he resisted and then when Liu Bei had enough momentum to unite China he again inserted himself and kept the feud going by attacking Liu Bei
Love Cao Ren on here me and my brother have always loved him as a character and liked the historical info in him
Cao Ren is a character I always liked too
I think had Sun Jian or Sun Ce lived things would have shifted in favour of Wu Sun Ce having the brawn and Zhou Yu being the top tier strategist it would have been close. Had Sun ce taken over Xu Chang he would have eventually found a way to overpower Cao Cao. Or at least it would have been the two kingdoms instead of three.
It definitely would have been interesting for sure
I remember reading somewhere that, historically, Sun Jian was regarded as one of the greatest soldiers of the time or something like that. He had a long list of accomplishments and was respected and regarded as one of the most influential men of his era. He was skilled in everything he did and well-liked by everyone associated with him. If he didn't die so early, the resulting history may have turned out a lot different.
I know in the novel, which a lot of the lore for these characters comes from, several of his accomplishments were changed or given to someone else (such as Guan Yu) but historically, he seemed like a really big deal while he was alive. Though that's just what I've read. The source for that information may have been a load of shit for all I know, but I don't see any reason to think it was.
@@marksamson4173 agreed basically he was Lu Bu before Lu Bu only he was known as the Tiger of Jiang Dong
Don’t forget it wasn’t just Sun Ce as the brawn Tashi Ci would have been a major power house for Wu if he didn’t get caught by Zhang Liao.
Liu Bei should be around 7/8 on the list in my opinion. Yeh he cared about the people and wanted peace in the land but generally he was weak. His emotions got to the better of him and the reason why people took him seriously was mainly because of Guan Yu and Zhuge Liang
That's true, but those two followed him for a reason, I could definitely see the argument, but Im gonna make a separate video for the top 10 generals which is different I think than having good leadership abilities, some of the characters will overlap but someone like Liu Bei wouldnt be on there but I can see the argument for him to be lower
@@TheNightowlGamingbeing a good general is different from being a good leader though. Even if you make a top 10 general video, Liu Bei shouldn’t be near that video
now, I dont like Liu Bei at all (bloody hypocrite), but ... based on achievements (from shoe-maker to emperor), he has to be number 2. Damn.
Interesting choices indeed. Great video sir.⚔️🌅🍀
I wouldn’t even give Sun Quan 11 he might have been good at delegating which is crucial. But he was also extremely erratic his handling of the crown prince affair, his dealings with Gongsun Yuan, basically shaming Chancellor Lu Xun to death and other things pretty much he left very little for the next generation to work with. Maybe it was his age or something but it’s definitely a shame Sun Deng died young he would have been a great emperor in my opinion
Interesting, at least in the games he aint that bad lol
Sun Quan ruled by creating conflicts. Even with his own sons, yes. And, yes, shaming Lu Xun is a mother-freaking act, given that Lu Xun saved Wu from YiLing, and then time and time and time and time again ...
But, he maintained power that way. For a loong time ... He has to be number 3 in this list. Sigh.
Came back to this vid, totally forgot how awesome the leader intro was😮
Haha appreciate it man!
Always good content 👌
🔥🔥
Glad you didn't put Sun Quan on the list. The thing that ruined his standing for me the most was his decision to backstab his ally Liu Bei by attacking his forces and allying with Wei in Fan castle.
First off, why ally with the force that is constantly trying to take over your land and is clearly the bigger threat where if either Shu or Wu falls, then the other is basically f*%@ed fighting Wei all by himself. So why attack the support that you two are supposed to be leaning on and supporting each other on to say afloat in the war against Wei that you should be united against? Dude, I get you want your land back but can you not wait until AFTER Wei is beaten? So because of that, that ended up working more for Wei favor in the long run and screwing over Shu and Wu more which caused them to eventually lose the war later down the line. Sun Quan was lucky that Cao Pi didn't capitalize the Shu - Wu conflict sooner and attack Wu while Wu was busy fighting Shu at Yi-Ling.
Second, I hate how the story makes it out that Lui Bei was in the wrong for wanting to retaliate and take revenge for Guan Yu's death.
Interesting perspective, thats so true! Yeah i agree wholeheartedly, I didnt even think of it like that. Now that I think about it more why did they do that, I know Jing province was a territory they wanted but yeah they could have potentially changed history by not attacking. Crazy!
Actually,based on the real history,Wu betrayed Shu because of the aftermath of their collaborations during Chi Bi.There's some sort of argument between Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang during the plan discussion (idk clearly but it seems like Zhuge Liang "trolled" Zhou Yu).
Anyway,after Chi Bi,Wu claimed that they want to take Jiang Ling.Zhuge Liang allowed it but Wu failed(he knew that Wu aren't capable to do it,so it's kind of a "troll")(Plus,Zhou Yu died during the failed attempt).So Shu took the advantage of the weaken defence in Jiang Ling and forced Wu to cede Jiang Ling to them,which ignited the spark of vengeance of Wu towards Shu.(And Wei actually took advantage of the situation during Yi Ling by attacking Wu,but I'm not really sure about this)
And actually,Sun Quan did forced Sun Shang Xiang(Lady Sun) to run and leave Liu Bei while kidnap their son to Wu but she failed(She managed to escape,but the son was retrieved by Shu).And after Yi Ling,Lady Sun killed herself after hearing the death of Liu Bei.
But yeah,this doesn't change the fact that Sun Quan's idea is kinda bad and how he ruthlessly used her sister to Shu for the sake of fake diplomacy.But I just tryna explain his thought process and why he inclined to execute it
Remember that Shu took Jing from Wu. And they didn't give the lands back after Liu Bei Took Yi Province. But I do agree with Cao Cao being the overall bigger threat.
ermm ... because Liu Bei went back on his words and refused to return Jing to Sun Quan which was loaned to him?
I mean, in war, there is no right or wrong. But morally, Liu Bei was wrong. RTK paints Liu Bei like a saint, but when people reflect upon his actions, most of it are hypocritical.
1. "Please, take me in, Cow Cow." Sure, said Cao Cao. Proceeded to backstab Cao Cao and retake 1st save-game Xu province. Failed, of course.
2. "Oh no, I cannot attack my clansmen". Attacked Liu Zong after Liu Biao's death, but failed. Forced to run further ...
3. "Oh no, I cannot attack my clansmen." Used an excuse to get in Yi province, and outright destroyed Liu Zhang. "My clansmen" My foot.
4. Borrowed southern Jing from Sun Quan. Kept "delaying" returning Jing province later until Sun Quan got fed up and accepted Lu Meng's proposal of ganging up on Guan Yu. OK, again, in war, no right or right. Not judging. Liu Bei did "order" Guan Yu to return some land too, but Guan Yu "refused". It's like, I borrow $10 from you, and delayed it for years, after making $10,000. You got fed up, and meantime I asked my sworn brother to return $2 to you first. But, he refused, and what can I do? *shrug
5. "For the Han dynasty~!" Then proceeded to attack Wu with the entire kingdom when bro Guan Yu was killed. Even the normally quiet Zhao Yun quipped - Liu Bei is treating his bro's death, a personal matter, when he mobilized the entire kingdom as a national matter. And said it is WRONG.
These are the major ones that I can remember off my head. Really dont understand why people of that era like Liu Bei so much, man.
@@Chengyuan79 because of the virtue and benevolence bullshit.
Great video! Would also love to see your opinion on what could be improved or your thoughts for Dynasty warriors 10
Appreciate the kind words! Yeah I could do that!
I agree on all the leaders in that video both cao cao and sima yi are the two greater leaders in history with passion and insights
🙏🙏🙏🙏
I’m starting to think you have something against cao pi 😩 great vid tho!
Haha nah! He has one of my favorite styles
This is my personal list:
1. Cao Cao
2. Xiahou Yuan
3. Sima Zhao
4. Sima Yi
5. Sun Ce
6. Cao Ren
7. Sun Jian
8. Zhou Yu
9. Zhuge Liang
10. Cao Pi
Oo Cao Pi interesting choice, nice!
@@TheNightowlGaming even his leadership is short-lived but he does his best to be a great leader and steps out of his father's shadow
These are so good
I appreciate that very much! Alot of work goes into them 😁
Gotta disagree with Yuan Shao here, I maybe based off the game solely he is one of the best leaders, but he is regarded one of the worst leaders by most historians. He was the leader of a huge army basically was based on the fact that he had a loyal family background. He didnt unified the anti-DongJuo army despite being the leader of that group and they were constantly fighting with each other though their target was DongJuo. And XuRong left him was because how he thinks that YuanShao is stupid and is always over confident. XuRong left YuanShao to join CaoCao and ultimately led to the Wei winning the war of Guando.
Well he's definitely a notable leader and I can see the argument for him not being the best, but still had great success up until the battle of Guandu, either way he led a huge army and his downfall was his own indecisiveness
*Hears the DW Opening*
*Gets transported back to DW5 with the Created Character Story next to Guan Yu*
Gods, I hope they remake 3, 4, and/or 5
Liu Bei is lucky to have Guan yu as lucky as Ieyasu having Tadakatsu
Yup!
That’s fact, Tadakatsu was ridiculous.
Sun Jian was a very good leader until an ambush took his life xD.
Seriously though, it's unfortunate that he died early. Fending off Hua Xiong and Lu Bu was insane.
yeah a great hypothetical of what would ve happened
i think number 3 should be sun quan,
become a young lord and receiving pressure from both military and domestic echelons, sun quan can keep them and even drawing respects.
sima zhao is great, but he already got many trainings from sima family
INteresting, I respect it
yes. Basically has to be number 3. As a leader. Cant lead an entire kingdom for decades without some leadership, no?
Even Liu Bei dont lead the army like Cao Cao. There are reasons why vanguards charge first. Only Cao Cao as a leader is known to be charging in front of the army. (Trivia - Sun Quan tried, twice. Got so many men killed trying to rescue him that he had to give up emulating his father and bro Sun Ce, ha)
Cao cao is the kind of person that will look his enemy in the eye and recruit them even if they killed his own.
Unless it's Lu Bu. His greatest mistake IMO (Cao cao himself even questions this at one point). The worst of you is the whole point. I do not fear that. I know how to play monsters.
I enjoy it TBH. I think Dynasty Warriors, going as far back as 4, helped make me the person I am now. Oh, but don't misunderstand me here. I'm a honest sinner. Not a hero. I AM chaos. As is Cao Cao. He probably knows that when older and wiser.
Control is the difference. It's not order. Think "Chaos theory". Reason and purpose behind events. Even chaos has a very specific pattern behind why things happen. People just misunderstand it. That's all.
Absolutely, everything happens for a reason and those who choose to look at the depth of why things happen and build a level of introspection are unique individuals indeed, just like Cao Cao :)
Lu Bu is a backstabber extraordinaire who has betrayed everyone just for the heck of it and Cao Cao could have used Lu Bu as his personal attack dog but a rabid animal like Lu Bu is prone to snap and he might turn on Cao Cao when he least expects it
@@michaelbandada8330 100%
@@michaelbandada8330 Two words. Control freaks. It's no wonder Lu Bu was so angry. He got enough of that from his foster fathers. To be used. Abused. Nothing but a tool.
The worst of you is the whole point. Do you think you're any less dangerous? At least Lu Bu doesn't pretend.
Know where monsters learn it all from? Know how they're created? Do you know who teaches them? I'll give you a hint. From those that fear losing control. Those that push away. Those that stonewall abuse. Those that sluaghter the helpless when they can't fight back.
With Sun Tzu on this one. "Know thy enemy." What Cao Cao could have done was get to know Lu Bu better.
Lu Bu displays something many people don't. Sincere compassion to those that can no longer fight. Lu Bu does not target the weak and helpless when they are defeated. Cao Cao and Lie Bei won't have seen this. Diaochan seems to have though. I can see why she likes him.
Lu Bu isn't heartless. He's just had enough of being used. Treat anyone like that, anyone, and you'd snap too.
In the future, Cao Cao spares Jia Xu. Despite being the reason they were were deceiving him. Despite having been the reason Dien Wei was killed.
The game is very subtle about it. It puts the pieces together. Showing how the characters slowly learn from past mistakes. I'm noticing more and more how Dynasty Warriors is pulling it off.
What about Kongming?
He aiight lol
My boss reminds me of liu bei.
haha nice
OK, another list~! (My work can only be done tomorrow, so I have time to kill, ha) ... OK, the scoring here is "rulers, preferably those who can fight well". Then I would take out Zhang Liao and Cao Ren. Capable commanders, but ... nope. Xiahou Yuan isnt as good, as I explained in previous comments, so ... nope. (If not, Wei commanders would take up most of the list).
OK, Sun Jian, believe it or not, is just a general under Yuan Shu. So, even though another great commander, he's not scoring points here. All his battles are under the command of Yuan Shu and not his own. Sun Ce, on the other hand, scores really high here. The only guy who is more charismatic than the hypocrite Liu Bei, recruited really well and the more his side fought, the stronger his side become.
Yuan Shao deserves his place actually, thank you for pointing it out. Did maneuver really well at the start to unite the north, even though, yes, his family means people joined him right at the start too. Beating the famous Gongsun Zan cavalry is no small feat. It's only later when he got cocky and started disregarding sincere advice that disaster befall him. It even happened to number 1 Cao Cao (Wan city, Dian Wei, Cao Ang, anyone?)
Even Dong Zhuo deserves a mention. If not for the fact that Lu Bu assassinated him, he would still just be around. With the emperor as his puppet, he could actually influence things to a certain degree in that era.
A surprising name to mention here has to be ... wait for it, drumroll ... Liu Yan. Liu Zhang's father, yes. Apparently, according to official records compiled painstaking by someone online, he was serving in the imperial courts, and saw the decay firsthand. Wanted to follow the ancestor Liu Bang's path (yeah, same thing Zhuge Liang told Liu Bei) to go Yi province to build up power slowly, and through sheer luck, got just that. Was building up Shu kingdom, but passed away relatively early. Liu Bei, the lucky rat. 😅
Sima Yi should be included in this discussion though he never ruled until much, much later. IMHumbleO, he was forced to take power (like Cao Cao. More on this later). Serving Cao Cao and Cao Pi (faithfully or otherwise) and then Cao Rui (another good emperor), later in a power struggle with Cao Shuang, and lost. Managed to return in power, and must have decided, "I need power to keep the family and myself safe". Did just that ... again, while Sima Zhao did really well just to maintain grip on power, his foundation was from legendary father Sima Yi, and later bro Sima Shi.
Sun Quan has to be third. Ruled by weirdly created conflicts within his own faction (even among his own sons, I kid you not), nonetheless he stayed in power for decades. Like Sima Zhao, while it is built upon the foundations of, same same, father and elder bro, the fact that he managed it so well is still something remarkable.
Liu Bei has to be second, even though, hypocrite. Let me just cut and paste what I rant about the guy in another comment (and sorry for the wall of text) -
1. "Please, take me in, Cow Cow." Sure, said Cao Cao. Proceeded to backstab Cao Cao and retake 1st save-game Xu province. Failed, of course.
2. "Oh no, I cannot attack my clansmen". Attacked Liu Zong after Liu Biao's death, but failed. Forced to run further ...
3. "Oh no, I cannot attack my clansmen." Used an excuse to get in Yi province, and outright destroyed Liu Zhang. "My clansmen" My foot.
4. Borrowed southern Jing from Sun Quan. Kept "delaying" returning Jing province later until Sun Quan got fed up and accepted Lu Meng's proposal of ganging up on Guan Yu. OK, again, in war, no right or right. Not judging. Liu Bei did "order" Guan Yu to return some land too, but Guan Yu "refused". It's like, I borrow $10 from you, and delayed it for years, after making $10,000. You got fed up, and meantime I asked my sworn brother to return $2 to you first. But, he refused, and what can I do? *shrug
5. "For the Han dynasty~!" Then proceeded to attack Wu with the entire kingdom when bro Guan Yu was killed. Even the normally quiet Zhao Yun quipped - Liu Bei is treating his bro's death, a personal matter, when he mobilized the entire kingdom as a national matter. And said it is WRONG.
These are the major ones that I can remember off my head. Really dont understand why people of that era like Liu Bei so much, man.
Cow Cow has to be number 1, yes. An imperial offical seeing the decay of the Han dynasty. The fellow who was the guy who rallied everyone to saving the emperor, and pissed when everyone was happy Sun Jian beat Dong Zhuo off to Chang An to the east. Realized it is doomed, and decided to take charge. The typical good-guy-become-"bad" scenario. Again, not right or wrong in war ...
The only leader who really rode in front of the army much of the time. (There are "vanguards" for other people, yah? Liu Bei, believe it or not, lost most of his major battles, and nope, didnt go in front as often.) Then, after conquering a place with either wits or battle, rode along the beautiful sceneries, and WRITE POEMS about things. I have his Short Journey poem in front of my work desk. Such foresight, such wisdom, such ambition, such empathy for his world at large ... Written with such a style. Damn.
Another beautiful comment! But I stand by the demon of hefei and the morale master Cao Ren being good leaders! As most of my lists incorporate both the game and history as well, also the older my top 10 videos the less knowledge I had on the characters, the in depth dives ive done into the characters since fully shifting into DW content has grown my knowledge of the characters has also grown so some of my older top 10s I would change around based on what I know now, but if I remade this one I think I would still keep those 2 in, maybe not Xiahou Yuan but those 2 I feel people strong about and them leading by example, per say! haha
@@TheNightowlGaming nod nod, my DW friend. 😅
Please, keep doing what you are doing. All of us are just chilling here and talking about topics that we like, namely, RTK era (book or history) and DW-ing. Again and again, thank you for providing us with a nice online place to hang out. 😅👍
Minus the top 2 i couldnt disagree more. Dont have time to list why.
Aye with each list being pretty much subjective, its understandable, hope you enjoyed the vid 😁
I think as pure leader Yuan Shao is in top 5. Cao Cao too lucky and OP that's why he beat both him and Lu Bu. Even combined power of Lu Bu and him or Lu Bu and Liu Bei(which way more realistic) not enough. Sun Ce more like fighter as his father and both would not have enough time. And. They not meet Cao Cao. Xuchuang is not Wu. Cao Cao is not three rebel generals.
Hmm interesting arguments for sure! I can see it though